00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Molina I'm Ash and this is [Music] morbid oh know just felt a little
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unhinged I mean what else is new I was going to say wow weird I just got sub she did it was a it was a a break from
00:00:33
the norm I haven't had Subway in like 10 years at least I know I haven't had Subway in a long time yeah like possibly
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15 years it wasn't even a choice it it just happened yeah yeah I just I really wanted to I really wanted a tuna fish
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sandwich real bad yeah it's real tuna apparently it is well Elena tried to tell me that it was and she was like you
00:00:55
know it's not real tuna and I was like oh my God and then I Googled it and it turns out there was a lawsuit back in
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the day yeah people was trying to say it's not real tuna it is yeah I became the internet
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for a second and I was like let me just spout something that's complete [ __ ] with nothing to back it up she said that
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she she said she was just testing me to do my own research I was like I wanted you to check so yeah I did my own
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research and it turns out survey says tuna real tuna it was good it slapped I'm glad it slapped for you that was my
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lunch I like that for you thanks I had some cottage cheese with and some uh sundried tomato and basil
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Wheat Thins you have to say Wheat Thin Wheat Thins it was delicious that wasn't like my lunch that was just a snack like
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a pre-lunch yeah pre-lunch appetizer we have an exciting thing happening today that we can't tell you yet I know and my
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tummy all jumbly for so she didn't eat lunch I said are you going to eat something [ __ ] and she said I can't I'm
00:01:51
too excited but don't worry you will find out what this thing is and you will find out fairly soon actually so yeah
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hang tight there's a couple ex I being those annoying people who are like we know something and you can't but you
00:02:02
will it's fun I promise you Oh I thought you were going to continue that sentence I thought you
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were like I promise you no I just meant like I promise you you'll find out like period yeah you're funny period
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period uh so we're going to be covering a case today that you might be like wait
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a second did I see this before you did you did uh but I want to cover it better we've grown um we covered it a long long
00:02:30
long long time ago it's no longer on there but um this is one of the first ones yeah this is one of the first ones
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so you know it's a it's a case that deserves another look and a deeper dive so Dave Touch a little Dave Touch to it
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so we decided to revisit it and um it's also it it happened in January which oh yeah we didn't even mean to do but I
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don't even I knew that we're fresh out of January right now Che it um we are going to be covering the black dollia
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murder the murder of Elizabeth Short so this case has so many layers to it this is going to be a two-parter it must be
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it has to be it it must it must be um I'm getting into my Transatlantic accent because we're going to Hollywood baby
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Hollywood Hollywood we're going to Hollywood and we're not in real life um I'm staying firmly planted over here uh
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but yeah this is a crazy case it is the first case I can truly remember becoming unhinged obsessed with
00:03:36
I remember that um it was this and like Jack the Ripper that I really just could
00:03:41
not stop uh this one in particular because I remember seeing I believe it was one of those like E True Hollywood
00:03:49
stories or one of those like Mysteries and Scandals with AJ benza they used to do the countdowns yeah exactly and I
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remember it was one of those um I loved those I loved AJ Ben I don't know what he's up to now if he if he's good or bad
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right now I'm I'm not up on it and I bet he's fine I hope I'm going to Google it
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really fast because like I have fond memories of that show in him what's what if I just Googled what's
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AJ Benz doing what's AJ Benz up too um his real name's Alfred that's crazy good for
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him good for Alfred he's just like doing poker okay so is he just Poker podcast is he kind of just like quietly existing
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podcast yeah it's sounds like he's chilling he plays for he plays he no he plays harmonica
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wow doing all right he's like Blues Traveler so is this the AJ benza am I correct what if it this is just like a
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random M I feel like that's AJ benza yeah I think so he has VI uh AJ benza what are you doing what are you up to I
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just I when I mentioned him I was like you know you always got to be careful to be like oh [ __ ] I cuz you don't want the
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only thing for anyone to hear out of this is J benzo he's a bad guy and you're right it was Mysteries and
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Scandals Mysteries and Scandals I remember it was like he was the host and I remember him standing on a on a very
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rainen sidewalk it was dark there was lots of fog around him at all times and he would walk out and start telling you
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the story and I it oh my God right bro I can can't you see it no I not only can I
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see that I can see the point of view like watching TV from your bed oh my God that's what in the purple walls oh my
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God see it's it it has a special place in my heart core memories core memories and I remember seeing the black dollia
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case and I remember them showing some version I don't know if my mind is like twisting this it's not cuz
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I remember it too some version maybe it was a sketch or something of her autopsy
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photo yeah no I remember cuz I remember seeing the glasgo smile I remember remember seeing that vividly uh and I
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remember that being the point when I said what like I was like what somebody did that to someone else I feel like
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they show not like obviously like an overhead shot but I they show part of the the crime scene the crime scene yeah
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it's like from the it's that classic photo where you could it looks you know the crime scene looks like there is a
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mannequin laying in the grass yeah uh and of course we're going to get into the specifics of this because it was not
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a bloody crime scene she was drained of blood um in part two we will get into all the theories we're going to talk
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about who we think did it um we're going to talk about you know a lot of the people that they were going after for
00:06:37
suspects um so don't worry we'll get more into that and I think in part two too we'll kind of go through even more
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of some of the nuances of this stuff um but right now we're going to tell you about Elizabeth Short I'm going to tell
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you about the crime scene I'm going to tell you about how she was found and we'll get a little bit into some of the
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suspects all right let's do it so strap in AJ benza I hope you're listening oh my God hi AJ
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oh my God how I don't think he has a poker podcast by the way I said that wrong it's a poker show oh okay good for
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him man yeah just before anybody corrects you wrong okay yeah wrong it was live reading yeah it's you know
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we're live Googling right now yes we're taking us back to a cool and very overcast Day January 15th 1947 all right
00:07:20
this is when Betty buringer and her three-year-old daughter an left the house for a nice little morning walk
00:07:26
just a stroll yeah just a stroll um they so the lam mert Park area of Los Angeles
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which is just 5 miles south of Hollywood was a very newly developed and planned community and there were still a lot of
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vacant Lots in it um they were along Norton Avenue and people would use these vacant lots a lot of the time because
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people are always going to people oh yeah to dump garbage other stuff you know like be be the dumb part of people
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yeah uh so when Betty caught sight of a pale white thing in the tall grass in the empty lot she thought oh someone
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left a broken Taylor's mannequin yeah in the lot rather than just getting rid of
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it properly you know it was just one of those things that she she kind of walked
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by and was like like can people stop peopling please yeah she was like oh my God put your trash in the garbage
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exactly but then Betty got closer to the object which was just a few inches from
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the edge of the sidewalk if you have ever seen the crime scene photos or anything like that or been to that area
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you know that she was right up out in the open to think that she was with her three-year-old daughter yeah worst
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nightmare worst night shakes me to my core yeah and I mean Elizabeth's body was right on the grass next to the
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sidewalk I mean that all of it was intentional um and she immediately realized she was not looking at a
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mannequin at all but a horrifically mutilated body of a young woman who had been bisected at the waist MH I think
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that's what initially really drew me to this case like made me just like morbidly fascinated and absolutely
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horrified by this case was just the extent of the mutilation that was done to this woman yeah I could not conceive
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of it I still can't conceive of it uh it's even to this day it's it stays as one of the most horrific cases of
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Mutilation oh yeah you can conjure now at the sight of this poor woman's absolutely mangled body Betty
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immediately grabbed her daughter and ran for the nearest phone and she called the
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University division of the LAPD and reported what she had seen now she was fully panicked obviously and absolutely
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horrified going through complete shock so she didn't like adequately describe what she found like she wasn't able to
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convey it in a way that some it would be a little understandable how would you so
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the communications officer on the other end noted that it was a quote possible 390 which is a stous drunk down in the
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lot at 9th and Norton Avenue it's like dude why would she be that horrified if it was just a drunk person stumbling
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around that's the thing like I'm like I feel like you even if you note that as like I think this is what she said you
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should be like but she sounds really upset so it could be there's other things going on here um now whether
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because of confusion or poor communication the officer also neglected to get the caller's name or phone number
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so didn't know her name was Betty didn't know how to contact her after that o I don't really know why maybe because they
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were thinking it was like a stous drunk situation maybe like first day on the job type Vibes very first day on the job
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training and their their overseer was like in the bathroom a lot of this uh scene was manhandled in a very bad way
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which I think led to the reason why we don't have definitive things even today that was the opposite of a bang up job
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yeah not not great at all um in fact it was going to be a full 10 days before invest tigators were able to track
00:11:00
bursing her down through notices in the papers like they couldn't find her anywhere so they could they had no all
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they had was that initial call and then that was it so they just came up upon it
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and we're like okay Jesus now expecting to find someone sleeping off a night of drinking in a lot the dispatcher sent a
00:11:21
single Patrol call to investigate the call and countless journalists and press photographers had heard the call go out
00:11:28
over the police radio Ros that they all kept in their cars so they all kind of followed just to see if there was any
00:11:34
story there yeah um Los Angeles examiner reporter will Fowler and his Fowler and
00:11:41
his partner Felix Pagel were the first to arrive at the scene before the LAPD had arrived oh [ __ ] so the journalists
00:11:48
arrived before the police and y'all know how that goes yeah that's never good they were shocked because Fowler said
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there's something about a dead body you couldn't mistake it's difficult to describe two parts of of a body as being
00:12:00
one however both halves were facing upwards her arms were extended above her head her translucent blue eyes were half
00:12:07
opened so I closed her eyelids oh now that's really sweet don't touch a dead body why the [ __ ] did you touch a dead
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body yeah don't be the hero I'm sorry beautiful beautiful sentiment love that for you that you were trying to be
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respectful here's my thing to everybody don't [ __ ] touch a dead body if you find it don't touch a dead body for a
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myriad of reasons don't get your [ __ ] fingerprints on a dead body hello you don't disturb that don't disturb the
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scene you don't know anything about what's going on here you don't know if something was injected into her eyes you
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don't know if something was put it like you don't know yeah so just sweep don't touch the sentiment love it very
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respectful very empathetic I wanted to close her eyes don't don't do that yeah don't involve yourself now the patrol
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officers arrived a few moments later and quickly called the division to let them
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know uh no it was not a drunk sleeping off a night of drinking in a vacant lot but a a horribly mutilated dead woman
00:13:06
thank you for [ __ ] that up on the highest level you possibly could well that's the thing I I don't know how like
00:13:12
I don't know the procedural for this but I'm assuming you would probably send a different set of officers for those two
00:13:17
things yeah I would think so like you're not sending the homicide division to a a
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sleeping drunk yeah exactly that's like it's I'm I'm just a little confused and again I'm not not I've never been in
00:13:30
this situation how the person on the other end confused what she said so hard yeah
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and like you said with the amount of anxiety and panic in her voice I feel like you would question she's not going
00:13:44
to be that upset about a drunk sleeping it's like I don't know I feel like there
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should have been a little maybe I don't know if she hung up quickly and maybe they couldn't get anything else I don't
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know but I'm like wow this really this game a telephone busted up right away yeah um the news of course brought more
00:14:01
reporters and soon the the crime scene was absolutely overtaken by reporters photographers additional LAPD officers
00:14:11
it was chaos just chaos of course and in order to keep as many people as they could out of the crime scene now
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detectives told Patrol officers and some of the reporters at this point because they needed however many people they
00:14:23
could to make a human chain around the perimeter to keep people out Dear God but by this the scene had been
00:14:30
absolutely trampled by so many people coming and going and it would and honestly it remained open to the Press
00:14:37
long after investigators left as well so whatever evidence was maybe there totally tainted and again this is 1947
00:14:46
exactly so there's not a lot of evidence to begin with most likely exactly and it's like after investigators left that
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scene should have been cordoned off and somebody should have been stationed there yep and that way they can go back
00:14:59
to the scene if they need to something comes up you go wait let's get back to that scene and take a look again and
00:15:04
they didn't do any of that so people were just trampling right through it right after they left it's like guys
00:15:09
what were you thinking I don't I don't get it at all but it was common for murder victims to be dumped in various
00:15:16
locations like the lot where Elizabeth Short was found especially around Los Angeles it was just you know just the
00:15:23
area but from the moment investigators arrived at the scene it was clear that this was not their run of the- Mill no
00:15:30
this for this was there was a lot here it was it was definitely not the killer trying to get rid of the this body
00:15:39
quickly no that is for sure like this was not like I just have to remove myself from this situation they had
00:15:46
arranged Elizabeth Short's body in a very particular way and had chosen a location where she would 100% be
00:15:54
discovered very quickly like very quickly this was and the way she was arranged like the the two halves of her
00:16:03
body were placed close to one another with about 12 inches between them and the upper half was placed somewhat
00:16:10
asymmetrically from the lower half like a little bit to the side okay and her arms were raised above her head and both
00:16:18
of them were bent okay at an angle very much so like you were posing for a photograph right that makes sense um she
00:16:27
was also completely nude mhm M um but it was very much like she was posing like you would lay on a bed to pose for a
00:16:33
photograph like you know like like you would see in a magazine at the time like a a spicy magazine you know uh so it was
00:16:41
very clear that they were trying to pose her in a way that it would shock and in
00:16:45
a way that they they were definitely trying to send a message either about who they believed she was or about
00:16:52
something else outside of her something in their pathology exactly the level of violence that the victim had been
00:16:58
subjected to I mean it exceeded what most veteran law enforcement officers and on the LAPD
00:17:07
had ever seen or would ever see really saying something yes um detective PW Freestone told reporters at the scene
00:17:15
this is the most brutal example of a sex crime I have ever seen she had been cleanly and when I say cleanly I mean
00:17:24
cleanly bisected at the waist which is shockingly absolutely insane yes whoever had done this it felt like they had
00:17:33
access to the type of tools required to do that in a surgical setting yeah this is like this is kind of like when I go
00:17:41
back to like Jack the Ripper um don't worry I'll talk about the DNA soon uh thank you for tagging me and everything
00:17:49
um but this is kind of what I say with Jack the Ripper that I don't think like it's it's hard to understand how
00:17:59
difficult it is to cut parts of the human body cleanly if you haven't tried to cut human body parts cleanly can
00:18:08
confidently say I've never tried yeah so it's like if you have not been in a profession where you have done that yeah
00:18:13
or been around that it's a little hard to wrap your brain around it is absolutely especially if you've only
00:18:19
seen it in like TV and all that kind of stuff in movies so like with Jack the Ripper I was always saying I do believe
00:18:26
this person has medical knowledge because to be able to do that stuff in the dark for in the light it would take
00:18:31
a somebody who knows where these organs are and then to do it in the dark it's like muscle memory just feels like you
00:18:37
have to know ex precisely where these things are it's kind of the same thing here this isn't somebody who just happen
00:18:45
to figure out how to cleanly bict a body they knew how to do it and they knew how
00:18:50
to do it because they know where things are because they are medically trained that's how I believe this situation is
00:18:55
going here I think you're right um and there's also other parts of that lead to that too which we'll get to there was
00:19:01
also and this is my next Point here there was a lack of blood at the scene um and it indicated obviously that this
00:19:09
mutilation had occurred elsewhere and that she was likely killed elsewhere but her body had also been completely
00:19:15
drained of blood that is one of the factors about this case that always has stayed with me yeah completely drained
00:19:22
of blood and it's just like why that's the thing and I think it was why there is could take you down so many
00:19:30
different Pathways I think it it it very much to me is another point in the column of this was a surgeon yeah I just
00:19:39
to me it Feels Like Somebody experimenting with things that they had knowledge of obviously but experimenting
00:19:46
to a degree and just doing the most yeah uh almost like showing off their skills
00:19:52
because it's like you have to have knowledge of like vessels and you know the the vascular system to know how to
00:19:59
properly drain a body of blood you also have to know how to do it where to do it
00:20:05
um you have to have the space to do it and you know certain people that are suspects in this case have really big
00:20:12
houses with basement uh do you know off the top of your head how many liters of blood like obviously I'm sure it varies
00:20:18
but like like an adult body would have I'm fairly certain it's five like a little over five perhaps it's like
00:20:25
somewhere around that okay um I lost like a ton of blood when I had my twins I had to get like two transfusions I
00:20:31
think I lost like two liters of blood so that's that's the only reason it's stuck
00:20:35
in my head how many to think of a body completely drained of Blood Cuz I saw you I saw you obviously in the hospital
00:20:42
after you had gotten the transfusion so all your blood was back but you looked I
00:20:48
I remember I will never forget pulling a nurse aside and being like is she like going to make it like she okay I was
00:20:53
like gray so I can't you were no you were literally gray like I've never understood what people meant when they
00:20:58
they say somebody's gray the like there until that moment but to see somebody completely yeah drained of blood like
00:21:07
and to think about the the procedure and the process of that yeah I can't because
00:21:13
normally to do that it it means I'm I apologize for getting graphic here but it's really all
00:21:21
I can do normally to do that you're going to hang the person upside down to allow all the blood to drain out just
00:21:27
gravity M you're not just going to sit them in a bathtub or anything like that and let you really need some gravity to
00:21:33
help you out here yeah to drain somebody completely usually it's like hanging them up over something would you assume
00:21:40
that that would have happened after she was bisected I would assume yes right cuz then I would ass yeah cuz that's the
00:21:46
easiest way to do it because you've got two halves which is awful that are less blood in each to drain at once kind of
00:21:53
thing you know what I mean like it's less and again we're getting graphic here but you are you you clicked on this
00:21:59
damn it it's less messy yeah it's just and it's less um less of a distance for the blood to travel to drain out of the
00:22:06
body cuz you're cutting it's all right there the travel in half essentially so this would have to be somebody who has
00:22:12
the capability of doing all of that right which is not your average job which is not just your guy on the street
00:22:17
who was mad that she didn't date him you know what I mean like which is what they
00:22:21
were really like yeah going with for a while I'm like I don't think any of these [ __ ] dick wads that were just
00:22:26
like being [ __ ] to her are really capable of all this and again this wasn't a day and age where you could
00:22:32
just like extensively look something up like that online I mean obviously there were textbooks and that kind of thing
00:22:37
but even then I would assume the resources on something like bisecting somebody and draining somebody of blood
00:22:43
would be pretty limited I think it's pretty safe to say that this person already had the knowledge because they
00:22:48
had possibly gone to school right to get this knowledge and possibly maybe not the bisecting but I don't know you just
00:22:56
you almost assume that this person has done something like this before for it to come out that cleanly yeah you do
00:23:01
feel you get the sense that this is not the first go even if maybe on some kind of caver in the learning process I don't
00:23:09
know if that's how that works sure yeah I mean like this person and I mean if they're again where this is speculation
00:23:17
obviously but like if this is a surgeon who did this then it's like they've performed clean cuts on the human body
00:23:23
like obviously that kind of cut is like a very specific kind of cut um but who knows it's like that it's similar to
00:23:34
other things so amputations can be similar all right side tangent aside yeah um the victim had also been beaten
00:23:43
about the face and head um there was a ton of lacerations especially on her face and
00:23:50
head um and the thing that I think a lot of people really remember about this case including myself is that her killer
00:23:56
had cut her mouth from ear to ear creating a glasgo smile a a permanent really ghoulish looking grin
00:24:07
on her face essentially one of the most disturbing aspects of this case it's a very very disturbing thing to look at uh
00:24:17
it's it's horrifying it that's why like this is such a ghoulish crime scene because it's like
00:24:24
the there's so much shock to this crime scene one she's nude to she's bed she's been posed with her body in the right
00:24:35
place you know what I mean placements y but like away from each other to like showcase that she's two halves of a
00:24:40
whole and even again like off a little to the side with her arms up like she's posing for a photo and then to see how
00:24:49
horrifically she was beaten and cut and all kinds of things but also she's got this ghoulish smile on her face that the
00:24:58
permanent smile it's that has been chopped into her face it's beyond it's really beyond anything
00:25:06
you've ever seen um there was also a ton of superficial cuts and scrapes other parts of her body and there also
00:25:14
appeared to be ligature marks on her neck wrists and ankles now this is kind of important in kind of something that
00:25:24
you can take in many different ways obviously it could mean that she was bound when she was alive and was being
00:25:30
restrained which I fully believe can be the case and probably was the case but this could also be one of those things
00:25:36
where you say okay is that where she was hung upside down to be drained of blood
00:25:39
that would leave lature marks too that would leave ligature marks somewhere I mean her neck was also had leg lature
00:25:45
marks as well which to me says it was part of like a torture restraining yeah uh but but it also can have to do with
00:25:53
being hung upside down if that's the case if that's how it went yeah it to if you think too hard about all these
00:26:01
things all at once and you start thinking about what was happening during all this it can like [ __ ] you up like
00:26:08
it's just like thinking about what she went through yeah and you nobody knows how long she was going through one of
00:26:14
the things that I think about the most is that I it had to have been like hours and hours and hours if not days yeah
00:26:23
it's like it feels like it was at least hours and hours for sure so police ended
00:26:28
up Fanning out started combing the lot for any evidence they could get uh but there was really little to be found uh
00:26:34
what they did collect some of it was um like a paper cement bag with what they thought was small drops of diluted blood
00:26:43
on it okay um investigators theorized that these were these cement bags were what were used to carry both sections of
00:26:49
her body to this area um there was also tire tracks visible on the sidewalk and a slightly bloody heel print of a man
00:26:58
shoe this is good evidence yeah but according to former detective Steve hodell which becomes a very important
00:27:05
member of this case and we just talked about him in the Rodney ala case we did um according to him quote these two
00:27:11
important pieces of evidence were not secured or photographed by the on scene detectives which why there's no scenario
00:27:20
where that makes sense there are tire tracks and a shoe print why would you not photograph and they were not
00:27:26
photographed or secured no like bizarre those are important pieces of evidence M
00:27:34
that you can be the most important yeah like you can genuinely narrow down a Suspect with that [ __ ] you can tell what
00:27:40
kind of tire that is what kind of car it comes from you could tell what that shoe
00:27:44
is what kind of shoe that is how many have been sold in there a you can tell all that [ __ ] yeah lots but we're
00:27:52
just like LAPD yeah come on what are you doing but other than that there was really nothing else of note at the scene
00:28:01
and no means of identifying this body so she would ended up being labeled at first Jane Doe number one and
00:28:07
transported to the coroner's office um the next morning an autopsy was conducted by Dr Frederick nuar who was
00:28:15
the chief autopsy surgeon for the County of Los Angeles uh Newar listed the cause
00:28:19
of death as quote Hemorrhage and shock from a concussion of the brain and lacerations of her face my god um they
00:28:28
believed that that was all inflicted while she was conscious which means that Glasco smile was inflicted while she was
00:28:36
conscious and alive and those were deep Cuts think about like oh it tore open her whole face when they when you
00:28:43
looking from the side it's like her jaw has been removed almost that's horrific and it's Hemorrhage and shock from that
00:28:51
which is one of the most horrific things I can imagine she died in shock from bleeding from having her face ripped
00:29:00
open yeah there was an additional incision from just below the naval to just above the pubic area and several
00:29:10
smaller cuts and small bruises all over the body that were likely defensive wounds so she was fighting back for part
00:29:17
of this I'm sure there was also evidence suggesting that Elizabeth had been sexually assaulted um but samples taken
00:29:23
during the autopsy came back negative for the presence of sperm got it uh Newar at the time of death to be
00:29:29
somewhere within a 24-hour window before the body was discovered but he couldn't
00:29:34
be more precise than that cuz I mean there was a lot body drained of blood and has been mutilated in a way I can't
00:29:40
even fathom um of particular note though at least From nuar's perspective was how
00:29:46
precise the bsection was like we were talking about in fact it looked like it was actually um what's called a hemoc
00:29:54
corporectomy which is uh at this this time in the' 40s a relatively new surgical procedure that came into use
00:30:03
after World War II and it involved removing everything below the waist from a surviving person um as far as Newar
00:30:10
could tell the procedure had been done after death on on this victim who we now know as Elizabeth Short um and the
00:30:17
Precision with which it had been done really suggested that the killer or at least the person who performed the
00:30:25
bsection postmortem cuz it could be two different had some experience with medicine and surgery um Newar also noted
00:30:33
that the body appeared to have been thoroughly washed before it had been left in the lot which that's always so
00:30:40
creepy to me it says surgeon to me yeah because everything is clean you have a clean field you he's not going to go
00:30:50
through all of that to drain to drain blood and to bict in such a clean way and then leave it messy see yeah it's
00:30:59
just not something that I see happening this uh hemoc cor corporectomy that that
00:31:04
he's talking about um would be performed like it's like a radical surgery like it
00:31:10
is like Last Resort like all you have left kind of thing and what you have to do is you have to cut between two
00:31:18
specific lumbar vertebrae that makes it so that you don't have to cut bone okay uh and they have to like reroute the
00:31:25
spinal cord essentially and they have to reroute cuz because you're removing the
00:31:29
genitalia you're removing um any of you know the rectum the all that stuff so you're going to have to reroute many
00:31:36
different things many different things for a living person right um it's a very intense procedure a very complicated
00:31:43
procedure and again this person cut in the same spot that you cut for this specific procedure so that they didn't
00:31:52
have to cut through a bone which is strange and you I'm telling you you open up a body and you take a look at that
00:31:59
spinal cord it is not as simplistic as you think it's going to be to just chop through between a vertebrae you know
00:32:06
what I mean so it's got to be someone who knows what they're doing and has seen this before they didn't just open
00:32:12
her up for the time and just figure it all out right it's just not something they they've opened people up before and
00:32:18
they've seen what's going on yeah it's I I will die no um knowing the cause and estimated
00:32:26
time of death was pretty important but investigators they really wanted to know who this victim was like they were like
00:32:31
we this is the most important during the autopsy fingerprints were taken and passed along to the main offices of the
00:32:37
FBI and in their coverage of the story the day after Short's body was discovered the Los Angeles examiner
00:32:44
included a lengthy description of the of who the girl was um they were hoping someone would see this description of
00:32:50
her the physical description and come forward among other things though the examiner described her as between 15 and
00:32:56
16 years old nope wrong with enameled pink toenails and a 3 and 1/2 in operational scar on the right side of
00:33:04
her back she was also described as quote rather welldeveloped with small bones and trim
00:33:10
legs okay I'm like you want to it's a weird way to describe any other descriptors in there I'm like I don't
00:33:16
know if I would be able to be like well my cousin does have trim legs it's a weird way to describe someone you think
00:33:24
is 15 or 16 years old with trim legs it's very 40s okay very 40s truly fortunately for investigators once the
00:33:33
identification division of the Washington DC Office of the FBI got the photos of her fingerprints they found a
00:33:39
match within an hour uh they identified Elizabeth Short from their card file of more than 104 million possible matches
00:33:47
wow yeah uh shorts fingerprints were on file because she had uh filled out an application for a clerk position at Camp
00:33:55
cook in 1943 and there was a second set of her prints on file from that same year after she was arrested on charges
00:34:03
of quote violating juvenile court laws so now this dead young woman that they thought was 15 or 16 years old uh they
00:34:11
found out was 22-year-old Elizabeth Short 22 22 that is so young yeah I don't think it's ever hit me how young
00:34:19
she was 22 for some reason I always thought she was I'm still a young person obviously but a little bit older 22 Yeah
00:34:27
I think I'm also looking at it from a perspective of now being later in my 20s now you're older than her so now it's
00:34:32
like God you barely become an adult yet and she has lived a lot yeah she had a tough life right had tough stuff going
00:34:39
on yeah she was struggling now Elizabeth Short was born July 29th 1924 in the hide pack neighborhood of Boston kid hi
00:34:49
pack hide pack you say that's where the salon that I used to work at had its first uh ever location there you go
00:34:56
she's from our neck of the wood Boston she's a Boston gal um she was born to Cleo Alvin and and Phoebe short
00:35:04
and raised in Medford Medford Medford I said wait I'm going to Medford tonight holy [ __ ] get out of here Medford uh
00:35:13
Medford is a workingclass suburb about 10 miles outside of the city it's true it's true we can confirm I was just
00:35:20
going to say can confirm at the time of Elizabeth's birth um Cleo worked in construction building miniature golf
00:35:26
courses and you know other kind of attractions like that I didn't know mini golf was a thing way back then mini golf
00:35:32
has been around since the dawn of time we love to miniaturize things we do we do and I respect that out of I also
00:35:39
respect that um and when the stock market crashed in 1929 he became unfortunately unemployed and lost his
00:35:46
savings oh God it was really bad for a lot of people a year later in 1930 um Charlestown Police found Alvin's
00:35:55
car abandoned on a bridge and he was believed to have taken his own life by drowning in the child's River o but a
00:36:03
short time later it was discovered that Cleo had faked his own death and abandoned his family and moved
00:36:12
to California hate that not great hate that not great that's [ __ ] awful yeah that's real [ __ ] awful wow I feel
00:36:21
like I forgot that yeah there's so many parts of this case that you remember and
00:36:26
then there's so many little details that you're like oh my god do you even remember that and she was only Elizabeth
00:36:32
was only about 6 years old when this happened six but old enough that you realize it oh that's terrible this is a
00:36:39
big traumatic event [ __ ] you Cleo Alvin with Cleo gone phoeby short became the
00:36:44
Sole Provider for Elizabeth and her four sisters so and she was working as a bookkeeper with only one income the
00:36:51
family struggled but did manage to survive the depression without like an insane amount of hardship
00:36:58
she kept them afat during her childhood Elizabeth began experiencing chronic bronchitis and severe asthma which
00:37:05
ultimately required lung surgery at age 15 oh wow I I don't know if you remember
00:37:09
there was a scar mentioned by Newar um in the autopsy that was from that surgery on her lungs got it um following
00:37:17
her surgery the doctor suggested Elizabeth would be better off in warmer drier climates uh so she began spending
00:37:23
her winter breaks in Miami with family friends okay this was kind of like that TB thing like the tuberculosis thing
00:37:29
where they thought like we just stick you out you know on a balcony and you'll get fresh air like that kind of thing it
00:37:35
is better for your lungs um after three years of wintering in Miami Elizabeth dropped out of Medford High School
00:37:42
during her sophomore year and moved to Miami Beach and she quickly found work as a waitress on her own for the first
00:37:48
time she struck up a relationship with Major Matt Gordon Jr who was an Air Force pilot stationed at a nearby base a
00:37:56
short time later in January of 1943 Gordon was shipped overseas and Elizabeth decided to relocate to
00:38:02
California where she wanted to live with her father in valo oh so they reconnected they reconnected uh it was
00:38:09
during this period that Elizabeth worked as a clerk at Camp cook that's where the
00:38:13
fingerprints came from but her relationship with her father quickly became very strained oh and within a few
00:38:20
weeks she decided to moveed to Santa Barbara oh wow just weeks yeah it's her father told the reporter after after
00:38:27
Elizabeth's death I made her leave I didn't want anything to do with her or any of the rest of the family again huh
00:38:36
you're an [ __ ] that's wild to say just like you're a wild [ __ ] that's wild to say ever that's wild to say
00:38:42
after your daughter's death and that's wild to say after your daughter's uh gruesome death yeah murder murder
00:38:47
exactly what the [ __ ] can you imagine no I didn't want anything to do with my child again or any of the rest of my
00:38:54
family my other four CH daughters who are living on the other coast that's so [ __ ] you should have thought about
00:38:59
that before you had a family that's like wild douche Behavior truly um it was there in Santa Barbara that she was
00:39:05
arrested for violating juvenile court laws when she was picked up for underage drinking at a Santa Barbara nightclub
00:39:12
during her hearing the judge agreed to sentence to sentence her with probation provided that Elizabeth accept a train
00:39:18
ticket and return home to Medford Massachusetts and she agreed okay so she agreed to return to her mother in
00:39:25
Massachusetts but instead she chose to go to Florida ah once she was settled in Florida she resumed her correspondence
00:39:32
with Matt Gordon the air force uh pilot and in 1945 Gordon supposedly proposed they marry when he returned home from
00:39:41
active duty and despite only having met him in person a few times Elizabeth accepted it was lur
00:39:48
unfortunately this en enthusiasm was going to be shortlived because on August 10th
00:39:53
1945 his plane was shot down and he was killed in the that's so sad which is like another
00:39:59
traumatic event in her life she's 20 yeah now following Gordon's death Elizabeth found work as a waitress again
00:40:06
but within a few months she decided she didn't want to stay in Florida and she returned home to Medford
00:40:11
Massachusetts there she found work in a local movie theater and when she was back home she really didn't feel like
00:40:19
settled or satisfied like she thought she was going to feel she thought she was going to feel some kind of comfort
00:40:24
she really didn't she didn't love it here it's a hard time time too to figure out what you're doing in your early 20s
00:40:30
I think and figure out where you want to be yeah and she was moving back when we
00:40:35
her just heading into winter over here not the not the best time to move back here no um but yeah she wasn't feeling
00:40:42
that great she and she knew she didn't feel really satisfied in Florida either she was like so neither one of these are
00:40:47
working for me so on April 17th 1946 she packed up her few belongings and returned to California this time she
00:40:54
wanted to settle in Hollywood okay by most accounts it seemed like she struggled to find her footing in
00:41:00
California for a while according to Steve hodell Elizabeth was known to have lived as a transient at various boarding
00:41:06
houses with a variety of Roommates she stayed at a hotel in Long Beach for several weeks during the summer months
00:41:12
and then returned to Hollywood uh there once she got into Hollywood she kind of bounced around a
00:41:17
few times staying at different places and eventually she found an apartment where she lived with seven other young
00:41:23
women which w w I give you credit lived with like I know didn't she live with like four other girls when she was in
00:41:30
Boston yeah yeah it's true I think that was just like the easiest way to make it
00:41:34
happen yeah I mean we lived with a bunch of our friends in Quincy so I can't really yeah it's kind of I feel like
00:41:39
that's like the time that you do it yeah we were living with a lot of people so yeah might as well before you have kids
00:41:44
before all that stuff now during this time Elizabeth was barely getting by on her wages from her job as a waitress at
00:41:52
the Florentine Gardens nightclub uh in a few weeks before her death she had actually struggled to afford rent she
00:41:58
was really like at at her last few pennies so sad to think that like in her last days she was struggling as she was
00:42:05
yeah her friend Anne Toth told detectives two or three weeks before Christmas she said she was going to
00:42:11
Berkeley but instead of going to Berkeley she went to San Diego and she said just before Christmas day she sent
00:42:17
me a wire saying she was low on funds and asking me to send her 20 bucks she had been gone about 3 weeks when I
00:42:23
received another wire saying she was coming back and stating that a letter would follow this is the last I heard of
00:42:29
her the letter never came oh yeah and Toth may have never heard from her friend again but Elizabeth did returned
00:42:35
to Los Angeles on January 9th that evening she was seen leaving the Olive Street entrance of the builtmore hotel
00:42:42
and this would be the last time anyone but her killer would see Elizabeth Short alive MH Now by 1947 people in Los
00:42:50
Angeles had become pretty accustomed to seeing reports of violence in the Press but the story of Elizabeth shorts murder
00:42:56
was truly unlike anything anybody had ever seen the news of the discovery hit the papers that very afternoon and set
00:43:04
off a media frenzy and it's really due to what police historian Glenn Martin called quote the brutal misogynistic and
00:43:12
ritual nature that the murder contained I mean yeah now again it's true she hadn't just been murdered she'd been
00:43:19
mangled she had been mutilated I mean she had been posed she had been humiliated by being left naked and
00:43:27
exposed like that um there was clear evidence of what a Los Angeles Times Reporter called quote an orgy of torture
00:43:34
yeah that is honestly as as kind of like crass as that sounds it is exactly what
00:43:41
it seems to have happened here yeah no but again pretty probably a better way to say pretty crass um adding to the
00:43:48
sensationalism uh the members of the press were quick to emphasize the sexual undertones of the crime labeling the
00:43:55
killer as quote a sex Mania and a Sex Fiend which I guess you can somewhat understand because why you
00:44:03
focusing on only that yeah you shouldn't be focusing on only that but I can understand why they were saying he he
00:44:09
might have been you know I can understand that they're saying there's a very big sexual aspect of this crime a
00:44:14
very sadistic sexual aspect of this crime not hyper focusing on it but like my friends she was also drained of blood
00:44:22
bisected and given um a a glasgo SM glasgo smile like well I don't think we should focus on one aspect of this yeah
00:44:29
we should focus on all of it but as was common at the time journalists and law enforcement were kind of like
00:44:35
intertwined in each other's work and the Press would really play like just like the last couple of cases we've covered
00:44:41
play a big role in this case particularly when it came to shaping how the public viewed the victim and viewing
00:44:49
the potential killer once the victim was identified as Elizabeth Short the story
00:44:54
really picked up some more steam thanks part to the you know she was beautiful and she was very mysterious she was so
00:45:03
it it kind of it it was it lent itself very well to the time and people wanting to start salacious rumors and like dig
00:45:12
into people's past and oh I think she was dating all these men apparently she had she dated a lot of guys yeah it's I
00:45:20
mean you're in your early 20s and you're living in Los Angeles of course you're dating around she's beautiful she's
00:45:25
mysterious she's you know to find her footing there why the [ __ ] not who cares
00:45:30
the story quickly became what Martin called quote a sad cliche the ultimate warning tale Elizabeth Short had come to
00:45:36
Hollywood to become an actress but like so many young women before her she'd only found disappointment struggle and
00:45:44
ultimately death Hollywood is [ __ ] cursed man it is now within days of the discovery the Press began referring to
00:45:51
short as the black doia uh it was a reference to Elizabeth's you know she apparently love the flower the Dalia and
00:45:58
she wore one in her hair often and she also wore a lot of black clothing and she had jet black hair right so it's a
00:46:06
it's a very I it's a very good nickname for sure CU it it's mysterious it's got with you it's got like it's for the
00:46:15
Press it's a really smart one that they picked because it's like like we said mysterious it's easy to remember and
00:46:22
it's got this like sexy kind of undertone to it so they were really like going with what they were trying to wrap
00:46:28
up here going to sell papers exactly it's also possible though that they were influenced by the popular Noir film The
00:46:34
Blue Dalia which was released the previous year I'm sure it was like a mix of them regardless of where the name
00:46:40
came from it definitely added to the sensationalism and mysterious tone of the case and like we said that's the
00:46:47
reason why it it's part of the reason why it has so much notoriety today is that when it's easy to remember the name
00:46:53
of the case the black dollia murder it's easy to reference you know what I mean abut and
00:46:59
again like you said it's going to sell more papers which means it's going to sell more books which means it's going
00:47:03
to be something people want to talk about yeah it's just a catchy name it really is so like the crime scene itself
00:47:09
the canvas of the neighborhood offered really few Clues to guide the investigation one local man Bob Meyer
00:47:15
told detectives he'd seen a late 1930s model Ford Sedan stop in front of the lot around 6:30 a.m. that day and he
00:47:24
said it lingered near the area where the body was found before driving away H but
00:47:29
he couldn't recall any of the other details that's weird to me that seems like somebody who's dropping off a body
00:47:35
yep um fortunately for detectives the identification of the victim offered several New Leads because now we could
00:47:41
start connecting people to her uh so they started with her mother Phoebe and they talked to her oh poor Phoebe I know
00:47:47
investigators set out to learn everything they could about Elizabeth with Phoebe in the hope that something
00:47:52
in her background would help lead them to her killer Phoebe actually learned of her daughter's death when she received a
00:47:57
call from a Los Angeles examiner which was soon confirmed by LAPD detectives so she found out in an awful way according
00:48:05
to Phoebe Elizabeth traveled to San Diego a few weeks before her death and had found work with the Naval Hospital
00:48:11
there um she said she said she left Hollywood because of the movie Strike which made it difficult to get work as
00:48:17
an extra Phoebe didn't know why her daughter had returned to Los Angeles on the night of her disappearance and she
00:48:23
really couldn't offer any insight now given the seual undertones of the murder the investigation definitely turned to
00:48:30
Elizabeth's romantic life according to her mother Phoebe Elizabeth's only serious relationship was with Matt
00:48:36
Gordon uh the Air Force pilot who she planned to marry other than Matt Gordon Phoebe short knew really no other
00:48:44
serious relationships that Elizabeth had been in before her death her mother didn't know about serious relationships
00:48:51
but her friends and roommates definitely were like she definitely had some relationships but not serious yeah she's
00:48:57
around yeah um according to Los Angeles Times article filed shortly after her death she was known among her friends as
00:49:03
quote a girl with a different boyfriend every night good for her good for her uh
00:49:07
several roommates and others who knew her claimed she had a fondness for Sailors and often visited the nightclubs
00:49:13
where s soldiers were known to visit that was so of the time I [ __ ] the can I just say I [ __ ] love that oh yeah I
00:49:20
think it's great the aesthetic of that time that's the thing the aesthetic the aesthetic but not not what the vibe of
00:49:26
what was happening but like the aesthetic of the time is for sure aov yeah it really is um and uh her former
00:49:34
roommate Linda Roar said she was always going out and she loved to prowl the boulevard let's go girl let's go girls
00:49:41
in their interviews with their those closest to her investigators learned of several men they believe could have
00:49:46
played a role in her death of the men short had dated investigators were very interested in one boyfriend who
00:49:52
Elizabeth had confessed to friends she was quote deadly afraid of oh according to Elizabeth Elizabeth's
00:49:59
former coworker Cheryl meand there was a quote tall Sinister elderly man who approached her at a bar where she works
00:50:07
a few weeks earlier and asked about Miss Short's whereabouts H and mayong thought
00:50:12
it was possible that he could have been responsible for her death oh wow other roommates told detectives about a radio
00:50:18
announcer with a British accent named a morrice whom they had heard Elizabeth talk about a few weeks before her death
00:50:25
but they didn't know anything else about and I was like some of these guys you're
00:50:28
like wow I feel bad for you they're just like that guy a date with her yeah he's
00:50:33
like there were other mostly unnamed men who came up early in the investigation including a man in Beverly Hills who had
00:50:40
offered to pay Elizabeth's rent and another in San Bernardino who asked her to move in with him but those tips
00:50:47
really went nowhere they weren't involved they were just trying to trying to get with her so yeah so um and then
00:50:53
we have a lead detective on the case telling reporters she probably went too far this time and just sent some guy
00:50:59
into a blind berserk Rage that's nice and he called her a tease oh oh of course yeah it's her fault what was she
00:51:06
wearing uh to which I asked that man um so how many women have you chopped in half because they supposedly teased you
00:51:15
Jesus Christ you [ __ ] psychopath truly like what the who says that what are men what kind of blind not not all
00:51:22
of them but what are some men what kind of blind berserk rage makes you do that drain the blood from someone and perform
00:51:30
a highly complex surgical procedure what a dumb thing to say like he probably went into a blind berserk rage and then
00:51:37
went to medical school real quick and learned how to do that like that's the dumbest [ __ ] I've ever heard someone say
00:51:42
that's not a blind rage my friend that's a shameful statement she tortured that's
00:51:46
a shameful statement for so many layer one oh okay it's her fault she's a tease and two that's just dumb yeah that's
00:51:54
just a dumb statement don't be silly like that [ __ ] dumb yeah okay don't don't be a dum were you you what was on
00:52:03
the rewatch or no on scream scream yeah you're in a place of dumb [ __ ] lately some people that gu being a dumb [ __ ]
00:52:09
it feels like 2025 is just bringing out the dumb [ __ ] I don't know what we were so hopeful we were but you know
00:52:16
it's okay it's still great yeah uh in some ways in like one one way one way sure
00:52:24
yeah or another yeah one way or another uh but yeah go listen to scream if you want to hey you know anyway uh but yeah
00:52:30
that was that was a dumb [ __ ] thing to say um among the more promising leads though was a tip from another about
00:52:37
another former boyfriend Joseph Fickling who she met in California in 1944 like Matt Gordon Fickling was a
00:52:45
former Air Force pilot living in North Carolina and the two had been writing back and forth as recently as
00:52:51
Elizabeth's time in San Diego oh [ __ ] very very like recent to when she died yep Fickling told detectives she told me
00:52:58
not to write her anymore at San Diego and that she was in Chicago or that she was going to Chicago excuse me oh in
00:53:05
April 1947 Fickling started to suspect he was only one of Elizabeth's romantic interests well listen and that her
00:53:12
expression of love for him might have been disingenuous uh he wrote in April to her
00:53:18
you say in your letter you want us to be good friends but from your your wire you
00:53:22
seem you want more than that so she was just like playing the field she said I don't know she said I don't know I'm
00:53:28
like 20 I don't know I'm like 22 right now now based on the letters between them that investigators discovered among
00:53:34
Elizabeth's belongings Fickling confusion and Elizabeth's ambivalence eventually led to the end of their
00:53:40
relationship yeah um he wrote in one letter in your letter you mentioned a ring from Matt you gave no further
00:53:47
explanation I really don't understand I wouldn't want to interfere okay well he seems respectful
00:53:53
he does like that's a pretty respectful thing to say like hey you just mentioned
00:53:57
that another guy gave you an engagement ring so like I don't want to interfere in that I'm going to I'm going to B out
00:54:03
yeah the letters indicate that Elizabeth had told Fickling about her proposed marriage to Matt Gordon but failed to
00:54:09
mention that Gordon had died two years earlier okay that's that's an interesting play um it sounds like she
00:54:18
didn't want a lot from this man's romantically and that was the best way to go about it to let him down easy yeah
00:54:24
it does kind of seem like that yeah in an interview with Charlotte North Carolina detectives Fickling said he'd
00:54:29
last heard from Elizabeth in a letter dated January 8th 1947 the night she left San Diego oh wow and he hadn't
00:54:36
heard from her since and given that he was on the other side of the country when she was killed he was quickly ruled
00:54:41
out as suspect but they just got like a little more insight into what was going on in her life I guess a few days into
00:54:47
their investigation detectives learned that when she returned from San Diego Elizabeth had been traveling in the
00:54:53
company of quote an unidentified redhaired man h on January 20th detectives picked up 25-year-old Robert
00:55:01
Manley a Salesman the Press described as quote slender neatly dressed man with carrot hued hair not carrot not carrot
00:55:09
hued not Carrot Top over here and he was believed to have been with Elizabeth on
00:55:13
the night she disappeared uhoh Manley admitted to police that he had casually dated Elizabeth since first meeting a
00:55:19
few weeks before Christmas and that he had dropped her off at the builtmore the night she disappeared but he flatly
00:55:26
denied having anything to do with her murder uh he told detectives my wife and I had had some misunderstandings I guess
00:55:35
so I thought I'd make a little test to see if I were still in love with my wife so he picked up Elizabeth at a nightclub
00:55:44
and they hit it off first of all super disrespectful to your wife super disrespectful to Elizabeth to be a part
00:55:52
of a [ __ ] test unknowingly and third of all [ __ ] off yeah [ __ ] you you know what your hair is
00:55:59
Carrot hu okay Ginger all right okay noou all right your just died you have whatever
00:56:08
according to Manley he picked Elizabeth up at a Pacific Beach Motel on January 8th and drove her back to Los Angeles
00:56:16
but he had not connected Elizabeth with the stories in the papers and thus he did not come forward to the police I
00:56:22
don't know about that my friend I don't know sounds like you were doing another test to see if law enforcement would
00:56:30
contact you well investigators were also unconvinced by this yeah and they asked
00:56:35
Manley to take a polygraph examination and he agreed but after the long drive from San Diego and many hours of intent
00:56:42
questioning by police he couldn't keep from falling asleep during the exam and it was
00:56:48
postponed that's giving rude that's giving that's giving what that's giving sir how do you fall asleep under these
00:56:55
circumstan yeah be adrenaline would be shooting me into the Kyper belt I mean who knows how long they were questioning
00:57:03
him but if it wasn't for like at least 12 hours open your eyes well and the thing is here's the thing he was very
00:57:10
forthcoming with information regardless of falling asleep during the poly he was
00:57:13
very forthcoming when he was conscious when he was conscious he was forthcoming with information and he told police the
00:57:19
last time he'd seen Elizabeth he noticed several scratches on her upper arms H and she attributed to them to intensely
00:57:26
jealous boyfriend and she described him as an Italian with black hair who lived in San Diego okay so we're like who's
00:57:35
that guy yeah who is him so although he appeared to be telling the truth Manley's story was inconsistent with
00:57:41
other statements gathered by police particularly that of William Sullivan a Railway Express clerk who claimed to
00:57:47
have seen Elizabeth on January 14th according to Sullivan quote a woman resembling uh a woman resembling short
00:57:55
visited the office about noon on January 14th accompanied by a red-haired man and
00:58:01
inquired about shipping a trunk and some suitcases to ketchin hospital when asked
00:58:07
to whom the items were being shipped the woman said to herself and gave the name
00:58:12
Elizabeth Short okay the same couple was seen about an hour later by jadel gray a
00:58:18
waitress at Cafe in San Diego gray described the man as quote very fair complexioned and said his hair was quite
00:58:26
straight and he was slightly freckled okay sounds like a ging to me based on these witness identifications Manley was
00:58:33
beginning to look like a pretty strong suspect he sure was but the following day Sullivan admitted to detectives that
00:58:39
he had been mistaken in his identification of Manley and in fact did not believe it was the same person
00:58:45
Sullivan changed his story when police told him that another young woman matching shorts description had come
00:58:51
forward to say she had been at the Express office with her red-haired boyfriend on January 14
00:58:56
oh [ __ ] when he was shown a picture of the woman he immediately recognized her
00:59:00
as the one person he'd seen that night and remember he said that she used her name yeah so he just lied oh what the
00:59:08
hell like what the [ __ ] and with Sullivan's identification now recanted the mystery of the redhaired man proved
00:59:15
to be a dead end and Captain Jack Donahue ordered Robert Manley released from custody immediately all right now
00:59:22
only one week into the investigation detectives who had been certain that to finding Elizabeth's killer was in her
00:59:27
love life had now begun to accept the boyfriend angle was probably a dead end yeah they were going to find him in
00:59:33
there and that is where we're going to end for part one you butthead because we have some real suspects coming in part
00:59:41
two I know who they are and it's going to get crazy the story just gets Wilder as you go yeah this is a wild case I I
00:59:51
got a 99.9% opinion me too yeah so we will we'll definitely talk about that in part
00:59:57
two and yeah I hope in the meantime we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you
01:00:07
lie to the police about your whereabouts or test your [ __ ] wife in any way yeah [ __ ] touch me and don't call the
01:00:14
victim a tease oh a [ __ ] [Music] [Music]