00:00:00
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And
00:00:03
this is Morbid.
00:00:17
This is morbid. Not AI.
00:00:22
That's what I would sound like if I was
00:00:24
AI. AI.
00:00:25
>> AI.
00:00:27
AI. I am a robot talking to you.
00:00:30
>> Longing to you.
00:00:31
>> I feel like I feel like I sound like
00:00:35
Rody and Ben's impression of A Girl from
00:00:36
the Valley
00:00:38
>> who they think is AI.
00:00:40
>> Honestly valid. I think I don't watch
00:00:42
that show, but I feel like that's valid.
00:00:44
>> It's one of the saddest shows of all
00:00:45
time.
00:00:47
>> I could handle the I don't know if we've
00:00:48
talked about this before. Maybe we have.
00:00:50
My brain is old now. Uh and it gets
00:00:52
older by the day.
00:00:53
>> Wait, I feel like I know what you're
00:00:54
going to say and it's actually like
00:00:55
pertinent. So go ahead and say it.
00:00:57
>> Like I can watch like Vanderpump Rules.
00:00:59
I can watch all that.
00:01:00
>> I mouthed it as she said,
00:01:02
>> but because like it's just adults being
00:01:05
dumb and it's like sure, watch that. I
00:01:07
don't give a [ __ ] if you blow up your
00:01:08
life. Like that's your that's your
00:01:09
business. You do what you want. But once
00:01:11
it brings kids into it,
00:01:14
>> I I back off cuz I'm like I can't watch
00:01:16
you act this way with kids around.
00:01:19
>> Well, I think it's fun too. Like
00:01:21
Housewives is like a thing in and of
00:01:23
itself. And then like other reality
00:01:25
shows, it's fun to watch like early 20s,
00:01:28
30s people like [ __ ] up their lives and
00:01:30
like be ridiculous. But like when real
00:01:32
life [ __ ] like divorce and like kids and
00:01:36
houses and like gets brought into I
00:01:39
don't want to know anything about that
00:01:40
>> cuz then I kind of feel I feel like too
00:01:42
voyeristic in that scenario where I'm
00:01:44
like I shouldn't be watching you go
00:01:45
through this.
00:01:46
>> I'm not a shot in Freud. Do I want to
00:01:48
watch like 20somes and 30omes like cheat
00:01:51
on each other like while they're dating
00:01:53
and [ __ ]
00:01:54
>> all day? Like let's go.
00:01:56
>> But like even I remember watching like
00:01:58
Vanderpump Rules like watching Scandaval
00:02:02
>> too much.
00:02:02
>> I while it was happening I was invested
00:02:05
and I needed to know everything. It
00:02:07
gripped us all. Looking back on it now I
00:02:09
rewatched some of those episodes now
00:02:12
watching Ariana
00:02:14
go through that I was like we shouldn't
00:02:16
have seen this.
00:02:16
>> No. And she never should have been like
00:02:18
subjected to showing that entire part of
00:02:20
her life.
00:02:21
>> Yeah. Which like whatever she was happy
00:02:23
showing like power to her. Oh,
00:02:25
absolutely. But like I was watching it
00:02:27
and I was just like, "Oh, I feel so
00:02:29
bad." Like I'm like this is cuz she was
00:02:30
it was just all everyone was so broken
00:02:32
and I was like, "Oh, fuck." Like way too
00:02:35
real.
00:02:35
>> I can't imagine having to process what
00:02:37
she went through like without a [ __ ]
00:02:39
camera in my face. I can't imagine it
00:02:41
with a camera in my face. And here's the
00:02:43
thing. I love like reality television.
00:02:46
I'm going to continue. I'm not being
00:02:49
>> You love the old reality. I like old. I
00:02:52
don't watch any new ones.
00:02:53
>> I love all reality television. In fact,
00:02:55
um this year me and my friends used to
00:02:57
watch The Bachelor like kind of like on
00:02:59
and off in high school and like a little
00:03:01
bit after. I haven't watched it in
00:03:02
forever. I'm watching The Bachelorette
00:03:04
this year because Taylor Frankie Paul,
00:03:06
her her name is so I don't know who that
00:03:08
is.
00:03:08
>> Taylor Frankie Paul. Well, you don't
00:03:09
watch The Secret Lives of Mormon wives.
00:03:11
>> No.
00:03:12
>> Don't you dare. Don't you dare look at
00:03:14
me with a with a scowl on your face and
00:03:17
say no. It is
00:03:19
>> one of the best shows as you should.
00:03:21
>> Like I don't support them. I support you
00:03:24
all watching it.
00:03:25
>> Yeah. It is one of the best shows to
00:03:27
grace our television screens in decades
00:03:30
and I stand 25 toes down on that. I grew
00:03:34
extra feet just to stand further on
00:03:36
that.
00:03:37
>> It's so good.
00:03:38
>> That's a lot of toes. But Taylor Frankie
00:03:40
Paul of Mom Talk and Secret Lives of
00:03:42
Mormon Wives is The Bachelorette this
00:03:44
year. So, I think I'm going to watch
00:03:45
>> See, that's it's the it's the uh the the
00:03:49
Mom Talk kind of stuff.
00:03:51
>> Will Mom Talk survive this?
00:03:52
>> Yeah. Will Mom talk survive this? I
00:03:54
think Yeah, I think uh I'm I'm not quite
00:03:57
I'm not on that part of Mom Talk.
00:04:00
>> Oh, I'm not on Mom Talk. I'm on like on
00:04:02
Tik Tok.
00:04:02
>> I'm on uh Cindy Hoffer.
00:04:05
>> Oh, them Hoffers.
00:04:06
>> Them Hoffers. Mom. We have and I will
00:04:09
continue to shout out them hoppers.
00:04:11
>> That's the thing. I watch Secret Lives
00:04:12
of Mormon Wives, Slamwa, but I don't
00:04:15
experience them on TikTok.
00:04:16
>> Yeah, which is probably good.
00:04:18
>> Yeah. I don't know. I mean, again, I
00:04:21
don't know.
00:04:21
>> Well, that's I mean, now I'm
00:04:22
experiencing them because of the whole
00:04:24
like Fruity Pebblescape, but we're not
00:04:26
getting into that because you know what?
00:04:28
Follow them Hoffers. Follow Annalie.
00:04:31
>> Annalie. Great follow.
00:04:32
>> Annalie, we love Annalie.
00:04:33
>> Great follow. Follow Chef Riley. I love
00:04:35
Chef Riley with my entire heart. Do you
00:04:38
follow Chef Riley? He's a listener.
00:04:39
>> Yeah, I didn't before and I do now.
00:04:41
>> Chef Riley makes some of the most
00:04:44
gorgeous meals I've ever seen in my
00:04:46
entire life and he has a cookbook coming
00:04:48
out and I already pre-ordered it.
00:04:50
>> And that's actually not even a plug like
00:04:52
whatsoever. I just love Chef Riley.
00:04:54
>> Hell yeah.
00:04:55
>> Let's go.
00:04:55
>> Um, but yeah, those are things you
00:04:57
should do.
00:04:57
>> Those are people you should if you're
00:04:59
into the Valley or, you know, Secret
00:05:01
Lives of Mormon Mormon Wives. I'm I'm
00:05:03
not judging anybody. You can watch
00:05:04
whatever [ __ ] you want. I don't. In
00:05:06
fact, Debbie watches it, too. Dubdub,
00:05:08
you come in here and we spill the tea
00:05:10
and sometimes you ask questions.
00:05:11
>> I I support it all. Yeah. I support
00:05:13
whatever whatever makes you happy
00:05:14
>> and we support your weird stuff. You
00:05:16
play like weird video games and watch
00:05:17
weird shows.
00:05:18
>> Exactly. And I watch like um old
00:05:20
episodes of Southern Charm and
00:05:22
Vanderpump Rules all the time. And it's
00:05:25
it's a trip to watch those. us turning
00:05:27
on Southern Charm the other day, like a
00:05:29
really old episode where they really
00:05:31
were talking about. And so after
00:05:33
Thanksgiving, we like all get together
00:05:34
for the weekend and like we're with
00:05:36
John. We're with John's mom. We're with
00:05:38
a lot of family. Y
00:05:40
>> and Elena and I are like, "Let's watch
00:05:41
Old Southern Charm. It's night time.
00:05:43
Like kids went to bed
00:05:44
>> and we decided unknowingly to pick the
00:05:47
reunion where they say something about
00:05:49
giving up oral sex or cheese."
00:05:51
>> Yep.
00:05:52
>> Immediately on impact. Um, there was
00:05:54
another like gross thing.
00:05:56
>> Big shot of Austin's naked ass in the
00:05:59
shower
00:06:00
>> and John's mom gets up and was like,
00:06:02
"Well, I'm going to go to bed. Good
00:06:04
night."
00:06:04
>> And acted like it had nothing to do with
00:06:06
that, but I was like, "Wow, we fucked."
00:06:08
>> I was like, "We really [ __ ] this one
00:06:09
up." It was a gnarly one.
00:06:10
>> Yeah, I was embarrassed. But we
00:06:12
continued to watch it.
00:06:13
>> We did. Um, but yeah, so watch what you
00:06:15
want to watch. 2026, y'all. It's on its
00:06:18
way.
00:06:18
>> I can't wait. It's the year that I turn
00:06:20
30.
00:06:20
>> There you go.
00:06:21
>> I know. And I will be 40
00:06:23
>> pretty soon. Yep. Uh
00:06:26
>> I think it's good.
00:06:27
>> It is. I feel great.
00:06:28
>> Mikey said 39 to 40 was like one of his
00:06:31
best years.
00:06:31
>> It's true. And I believe him. So Mikey
00:06:33
doesn't ever lie.
00:06:34
>> He doesn't. He would never lie to me.
00:06:36
All right. Let's let's get into it. We
00:06:37
really talked.
00:06:38
>> Speaking of uh
00:06:40
>> I have no segue. Okay.
00:06:41
>> Uh cuz we were speaking of something
00:06:43
happy and this is not. Uh this is called
00:06:46
and I'm sure you've read this cuz you
00:06:47
clicked on the episode, but you were
00:06:48
probably like what? It's called the
00:06:51
onion field incident.
00:06:53
>> Yeah.
00:06:54
>> Now, the onion field incident could make
00:06:56
you think it sounds like something
00:06:58
silly.
00:06:59
>> Yeah.
00:06:59
>> Right. You think of an onion field.
00:07:01
>> Yeah.
00:07:01
>> And an incident occurring in it. To me,
00:07:04
I immediately was like, is this a silly
00:07:06
like UFO kind of thing? Like what's
00:07:09
what's this about?
00:07:09
>> Incident has UFO vibes.
00:07:11
>> Yeah. It's not. There's murder. Oh.
00:07:14
>> Um, and this is a very it's a case where
00:07:17
it's just going to make you go, "Oh."
00:07:20
>> Oh,
00:07:21
>> yeah. It's like it's everybody kind of
00:07:24
loses in this, which I'm sorry,
00:07:26
>> it's the holiday season.
00:07:28
>> But it's a very interesting case and
00:07:30
it's a case that changed a lot of
00:07:32
policy, okay,
00:07:33
>> for the LAPD later. So, that's
00:07:35
interesting. And that was it was, you
00:07:38
know, something that came out of it. So,
00:07:40
the two people that this is the two um
00:07:42
the two victims that we're going to be
00:07:44
talking about are named Carl Hedinger
00:07:46
and Ian Campbell.
00:07:48
>> Okay.
00:07:48
>> Um so, let's talk about who they are
00:07:50
first. Carl was born October 29th, 1934
00:07:54
in Los Angeles, California. He was one
00:07:57
of three kids to Francis and Elsie
00:07:59
Hedinger.
00:07:59
>> I think Elsie is the cutest name.
00:08:01
>> I love the name Elsie.
00:08:02
>> Makes me think of Lauren Conrad.
00:08:03
>> Yeah. He had now he had two sisters,
00:08:05
Miriam and Ununice. Um they were born
00:08:08
several years earlier. I know Ununice
00:08:10
and Miriam.
00:08:12
>> They were all planned
00:08:14
births, but Carl was a little bit of a
00:08:17
surprise.
00:08:17
>> A happy accident like me. It was also a
00:08:21
happy accident. You know, we're all
00:08:23
doing great out here. Happy accidents.
00:08:25
Um, and his arrival on this earth, as
00:08:30
far as, you know, his father was
00:08:32
concerned, was a little of an
00:08:34
inconvenience, I would say.
00:08:36
>> Oh. Um Elsie Hedinger on the other hand
00:08:39
adored Carl. Adored him and they were
00:08:43
inseparable for a long time.
00:08:45
>> Mama and son.
00:08:46
>> Yeah. Especially in his early years.
00:08:48
>> Now despite growing up in a very big,
00:08:50
very busy like bustling city of Los
00:08:52
Angeles during one of its biggest growth
00:08:54
periods too in the 60s,
00:08:56
>> Carl had dreams of becoming a farmer
00:08:58
when he grew up.
00:08:59
>> Farmer Carl.
00:09:00
>> Yeah. He now he because he wanted this
00:09:03
because he was inspired by these like
00:09:05
really romantic stories his mother told
00:09:08
him of about her idyllic childhood on a
00:09:11
large farm in Germany where she grew up
00:09:13
and she would say how beautiful it was
00:09:15
and what a peaceful life it was and he
00:09:16
was just like wow this just sounds
00:09:18
amazing.
00:09:18
>> He said I long for that.
00:09:20
>> Yeah. Now well Elsie obviously she
00:09:22
seemed to have endless time for her son.
00:09:24
She was always around him you know doing
00:09:26
on him. Carl's father was another matter
00:09:29
entirely I would say. Um, so they were
00:09:32
immigrants to California and Francis
00:09:33
Hedinger was a very hardworking man who
00:09:36
labored for very long hours every single
00:09:39
day at whatever job he could find. He
00:09:42
was a very hard worker.
00:09:43
>> Uh, he was an experienced carpenter. He
00:09:45
was a very good woodworker, very
00:09:47
skilled. And when Carl got older, he did
00:09:50
want to be like his father. He saw
00:09:53
>> how hard he worked and what he got.
00:09:54
Unfortunately, Francis Hedinger was of a
00:09:57
generation that hadn't been raised to be
00:09:59
involved in the lives of their children.
00:10:01
>> I was gonna say it wasn't really like
00:10:02
the era for fathers.
00:10:04
>> No, it really wasn't. And his attempts
00:10:06
to bond with his son were never really
00:10:08
successful. They just didn't jive
00:10:10
really. Carl really wanted to learn the
00:10:12
skills that his father possessed. And
00:10:14
like it seemed so effortless to his
00:10:16
father. But Francis was not a great
00:10:18
teacher cuz he didn't really have a lot
00:10:20
of patience. So, their quality time
00:10:22
together kind of ended in frustration
00:10:24
and really like disappointment on both
00:10:27
sides, which is sad.
00:10:28
>> Yeah, that is sad.
00:10:29
>> So, having an emotionally distant
00:10:31
father, while disappointing for Carl,
00:10:34
wasn't like we just said, all that
00:10:36
uncommon in mid-century America at the
00:10:38
time. This was kind of the norm.
00:10:39
>> Yeah, it's kind of not uncommon in
00:10:41
general.
00:10:41
>> An emotionally distant father. Um, I
00:10:44
think it's really like millennial dads
00:10:46
are out here trying to change that [ __ ]
00:10:48
like thorough out here being like,
00:10:49
"Sure,
00:10:50
>> truth.
00:10:50
>> Do my hair, paint my nails, I'm coming
00:10:52
to your dad's recital. I'm just talking
00:10:53
about John."
00:10:56
>> And uh but and it wasn't as though Carl
00:10:58
was lonely or desperate for attention.
00:11:00
In addition to his mom being like really
00:11:02
doing and giving him a lot of attention.
00:11:05
Carl's older sisters often became like
00:11:07
they acted like kind of like second and
00:11:09
third moms to him. They would lavish him
00:11:12
with attention, like really good older
00:11:14
sisters. Um, and also the neighborhood
00:11:16
where they lived was full of young
00:11:18
families, newly married couples. So, he
00:11:20
had a lot of like people to play with
00:11:22
during his formative years. It wasn't
00:11:23
like he was just like
00:11:25
>> sad cuz my dad's not playing with me.
00:11:27
>> Yeah.
00:11:28
>> Uh, and as a result, Carl developed a
00:11:30
very easily likable personality. He was
00:11:32
around a lot of people
00:11:33
>> and he's been raised by ladies.
00:11:35
>> And he's been raised by ladies who like
00:11:37
lavish him with attention.
00:11:38
>> That's kind of the dream.
00:11:39
>> And it made him popular with adults and
00:11:41
children. Like everyone loved him. They
00:11:43
were like Carl for life. Oh no. After
00:11:45
graduating from high school in 1950 at
00:11:47
16 years old.
00:11:49
>> Wow. Early.
00:11:49
>> Carl enrolled at Pierce Junior College
00:11:51
in the San Fernando Valley, which was
00:11:54
one of the few schools in the area that
00:11:55
was known to have a strong agricultural
00:11:57
program. He said, "I'm going to get me
00:11:59
that farm. I'm going to be a farmer."
00:12:01
>> It was there that Carl really stepped
00:12:04
into his own. He kind of shed any hint
00:12:07
of shyness that was there and he was
00:12:09
embracing his academic success. He had
00:12:12
pride in what he was doing. And it
00:12:14
turned out that Carl's interest in
00:12:15
farming wasn't just a romantic idea just
00:12:18
from those like stories that his mother
00:12:20
was telling her of when she was growing
00:12:21
up. But it was something Carl was like
00:12:23
actually really good at and interested
00:12:25
in.
00:12:26
>> All right.
00:12:26
>> But his success wasn't just limited to
00:12:28
the farm. He was also a really good
00:12:30
student in other academic like more
00:12:32
academic subjects. He was a good student
00:12:35
athlete. He was active in student
00:12:38
politics and he became student body
00:12:40
president. Okay, Carl. Car roll after
00:12:43
two years there at Pierce where where
00:12:45
you know he was so happy the entire time
00:12:49
he was there.
00:12:50
>> But then he had to end up moving on of
00:12:52
course cuz it's junior college two
00:12:53
years. Yeah.
00:12:54
>> Um he found that
00:12:56
>> not everything was going to be as like
00:12:58
perfect as that junior college
00:13:00
experience was. Not all academic
00:13:02
environments were going to suit him like
00:13:04
that. After graduating from Pierce, he
00:13:06
enrolled at uh Fresno State College,
00:13:08
which was a very popular choice among
00:13:10
the, you know, his peers at Pierce. A
00:13:12
lot of them went there, but Fresno State
00:13:15
was not like Pierce academically or
00:13:17
socially. Not long after enrolling, he
00:13:19
and his friends found themselves
00:13:20
struggling to keep up academically.
00:13:23
Author Joseph uh Wamba, who we will talk
00:13:26
about later, he wrote the book um The
00:13:28
Onion Fields about this story. Uh he
00:13:31
wrote, "Though most of the old Pierce
00:13:32
boys stayed together, they played too
00:13:34
much and the grades began falling. So I
00:13:37
think they were very social at Pierce
00:13:38
and it wasn't the same case."
00:13:40
>> Yeah.
00:13:40
>> Now, after a little more than a year at
00:13:42
Fresno State, Carl dropped out early in
00:13:44
his senior year and joined the Marines
00:13:46
and ended up based uh stationed at a
00:13:48
base in 29 Palms, which was a small
00:13:51
desert town in San Bernardino County. So
00:13:54
to go from the life of a farmer to that
00:13:57
of a soldier wasn't uh exactly what
00:14:00
anyone saw for Carl. They were just like
00:14:02
damn.
00:14:03
>> But to many of his friends, it made like
00:14:05
his friends said he was around all the
00:14:06
time. Like they they were like it did
00:14:08
kind of make sense to them because
00:14:10
according to his friend Terry McManis,
00:14:12
he was like so many of those farm boys I
00:14:14
met at Pierce. Stubborn, quiet, and
00:14:16
determined about right and principle and
00:14:19
just about 30 years out of touch with
00:14:20
the city life of Los Angeles all around
00:14:22
them. All right.
00:14:23
>> So, I can see it. You know, beginning in
00:14:25
his earliest years, Carl's parents had
00:14:27
instilled in him a sense of right and
00:14:29
wrong that likely seemed antiquated and
00:14:33
charming in this kind of city like Los
00:14:35
Angeles that had not only increased
00:14:38
significantly in size since the end of
00:14:40
World War II, but the crime rate had
00:14:42
also skyrocketed. So, this black and
00:14:45
white sense of right and wrong was
00:14:46
definitely antiquated at that point.
00:14:49
Now, after serving a few years in the
00:14:50
Marines, Carl was honorably discharged
00:14:52
and found himself kind of floating
00:14:54
around aimlessly without a lot of
00:14:56
structure.
00:14:57
>> None of that rigidity from the military
00:14:59
that he actually ended up kind of
00:15:00
liking.
00:15:01
>> Yeah. And that's tough to go from like
00:15:02
complete structure to complete
00:15:04
unstructure. Yeah.
00:15:06
>> Until a friend convinced him to
00:15:07
accompany him to city hall where he was
00:15:09
planning to take the admittance test to
00:15:11
enter the police academy.
00:15:12
>> Okay. So, he'd spent his youth dreaming
00:15:15
again, peaceful life on the farm. Never
00:15:19
thought about joining law enforcement.
00:15:20
That was just never a thought about for
00:15:22
him. But Carl decided that, you know
00:15:24
what, why don't I just take the test and
00:15:26
just see? I'm bringing you there. I
00:15:28
might as well take the test, too.
00:15:30
>> I love happened to be bringing someone
00:15:32
there and was like, yeah, I'll go for
00:15:33
it.
00:15:34
>> He was like, why not? And he passed.
00:15:36
>> Sick.
00:15:36
>> And he was accepted into the academy.
00:15:38
Uh, and Whima later wrote he wasn't at
00:15:41
all certain this was to be his life's
00:15:43
career or even how he got there, but
00:15:45
typically he put forth maximum effort
00:15:47
and did well and was named class
00:15:50
validictorian in the police academy.
00:15:52
>> Wow.
00:15:53
>> So, he was a student body president in
00:15:54
the regular junior college and class
00:15:57
validictorian at the police academy.
00:15:59
>> He's thriving.
00:15:59
>> He is. Now, Carl spent the first couple
00:16:01
years on the force doing, you know, the
00:16:04
mundane and often boring work of patrol
00:16:06
before he ended up being transferred to
00:16:08
Hollywood's vice detail in 1962.
00:16:12
>> Unlike the, you know, kind of like I
00:16:14
said, mundane work of a patrolman in the
00:16:17
central division, there seemed to be no
00:16:19
end to the work or the excitement quote
00:16:22
unquote of Vice in Hollywood.
00:16:25
>> Hollywood.
00:16:26
>> Yeah. Uh, so a friend of his said, "I
00:16:29
always liked to work with Carl because
00:16:31
he had more jokes than any man I'd ever
00:16:33
met in my life.
00:16:35
>> He took everything with like humor."
00:16:37
Yeah.
00:16:37
>> The next major change in Carl's career
00:16:39
came the following year when he was
00:16:41
taken off Vice and assigned to the
00:16:43
felony car division.
00:16:45
>> It was a squad that dealt mostly with
00:16:46
crimes obviously involving vehicles.
00:16:48
>> No way.
00:16:49
>> I know. It's crazy.
00:16:50
>> Imagine if I was like, "It has nothing
00:16:52
to do with cars." Uh, the new assignment
00:16:54
also came with a new partner, Ian
00:16:56
Campbell. I remember that name.
00:16:58
>> Like Carl, Ian had grown up in Los
00:17:00
Angeles during that period of very big
00:17:02
urban expansion, but he also had this
00:17:05
like m, you know, romantic sense of
00:17:08
wonder about the world just like Carl.
00:17:10
Like they had the a similar outlook on
00:17:12
everything.
00:17:12
>> He was, according to his mother, a
00:17:14
dreamer
00:17:15
>> who loved reading and would quote
00:17:18
doawtle for hours by the pits and stare
00:17:20
into the tar until he vividly imagined
00:17:23
great pleaene creatures there.
00:17:25
>> What is pleaene? Oh, they're like like
00:17:27
creatures from like long ago,
00:17:30
you know, with like when like glaciers
00:17:32
were boopping about everywhere.
00:17:33
>> Fun,
00:17:34
>> you know. So, he was he had a great
00:17:36
imagination. He just sit there.
00:17:37
>> Yeah. He's just vibing. I like that he
00:17:39
wasn't looking at the clouds. He was
00:17:40
looking at the tar.
00:17:41
>> Yeah. He was like, "What kind of
00:17:42
creatures can I see?"
00:17:43
>> And the black tar.
00:17:43
>> Now, Ian had been a good student in high
00:17:45
school and after a few years in college,
00:17:47
he too had joined the Marines. He worked
00:17:49
in communications and just as Carl had,
00:17:53
>> he found that he really liked the
00:17:54
rigidity. Okay. Um, and the similarities
00:17:57
didn't stop with all that between them.
00:17:59
Like Carl, Ian had also been interested
00:18:01
in animals cuz Carl really loved animals
00:18:04
and had been pursuing a degree in
00:18:06
zoology.
00:18:06
>> Oh, [ __ ]
00:18:07
>> So, that's it's funny that like Carl was
00:18:09
pursuing a degree in like agriculture.
00:18:12
He was pursuing like two very different
00:18:14
things to law enforcement,
00:18:15
>> but it's also like link up and start a
00:18:17
farm together with a petting zoo,
00:18:18
>> the animals, the farm like let's go. Um,
00:18:21
but he ended up dropping out in his
00:18:23
final year to join the Marines. So, it
00:18:25
was similar to Carl.
00:18:26
>> Uh, when he was discharged from the
00:18:28
Marines, he briefly considered returning
00:18:30
to school for zoology, but instead found
00:18:32
himself rather unexpectedly taking the
00:18:35
police exam.
00:18:36
>> Weird.
00:18:37
>> And it led him to a career in law
00:18:38
enforcement.
00:18:39
>> Random. While he might also not have
00:18:41
envisioned himself as a police officer,
00:18:44
Ian had a strong work ethic and like his
00:18:46
new partner Carl tended to excel at
00:18:48
whatever the [ __ ] he put his mind to.
00:18:51
After a few years on the force, he
00:18:52
started taking criminology courses at
00:18:54
night and he was hoping he would advance
00:18:56
to the rank of detective in the next few
00:18:58
years.
00:18:59
>> Now, a few years into his time on the
00:19:01
force, me Ian met um Ada, a former Las
00:19:04
Vegas showgirl, and the two were
00:19:06
immediately in love. Shut the [ __ ] up.
00:19:09
>> Yeah,
00:19:10
>> too cool.
00:19:11
>> At first, Ada was afraid of him is what
00:19:14
Wamba said. Uh, the manners he got from
00:19:16
his mother intimidated her, but at the
00:19:18
same time made him terribly attractive.
00:19:20
Home in no time. They married. They
00:19:23
found a small apartment in Hollywood.
00:19:25
And, you know, Ian's mom Chrissy was a
00:19:27
frequent guest there. It was just like a
00:19:29
nice little life.
00:19:30
>> Cute.
00:19:31
>> By almost any measure, things were going
00:19:33
very well for Ian Campbell at this
00:19:35
point. Sounds like it. He had a
00:19:36
promising career, a beautiful young
00:19:38
wife. He was very likely to be promoted
00:19:40
to detective in a few years, but there
00:19:42
was always something about Ian that
00:19:44
suggested that he like wasn't totally
00:19:47
satisfied.
00:19:48
>> Okay.
00:19:48
>> Um, uh, Ada said, uh, Ada once told a
00:19:52
friend, he was always unrealistic about
00:19:54
helping people and always expects more
00:19:56
from life than he gets. I'm afraid
00:19:59
police work will somehow awaken a person
00:20:01
like him too harshly. Hm. So, like it's
00:20:04
going to be too like real, I think, for
00:20:06
for this like cuz he's a dreamer. Yeah.
00:20:09
>> Now, in time, Ian and Ada moved from
00:20:11
their small Hollywood apartment to their
00:20:13
own home and they ended up having their
00:20:15
first daughter, Valerie, who was soon
00:20:17
followed by another daughter, Lorie.
00:20:19
>> Great name.
00:20:20
>> Over time, Ian lost some of that
00:20:22
restlessness that he'd probably felt in
00:20:23
the early years of their marriage and
00:20:25
eventually settled into a pretty quiet,
00:20:27
peaceful, middle-class life. You know,
00:20:30
he did have one that was punctured by a
00:20:32
lot of violence and chaos in his day
00:20:34
job, but he got to go home to a nice
00:20:36
peaceful home with two daughters and a
00:20:38
wife.
00:20:39
>> Now, Carl and Ian weren't just similar
00:20:41
in their interests and personal
00:20:42
histories, but also in their demeanor
00:20:44
and constitutions. They were both
00:20:46
bookish. They were pretty intellectual,
00:20:49
much more intellectual than the like
00:20:51
ordinary cop on the LA Beat at the time,
00:20:54
to be quite honest. Like
00:20:55
>> that's just the way it was. and both had
00:20:57
very strong convictions when it came to
00:21:00
right and wrong. Okay. This was
00:21:02
something they like really shared. Yeah.
00:21:04
>> Uh this meant that while they were made
00:21:05
for good partners at work, they were
00:21:07
also really well suited to be good
00:21:09
friends. Yeah.
00:21:10
>> Which was a really rare thing for the
00:21:13
average cop to find in their partner,
00:21:16
especially in Los Angeles in the 1960s.
00:21:19
To be partnered up with someone you
00:21:20
click with that that well.
00:21:21
>> Yeah. like
00:21:22
>> well just like working on things that
00:21:24
are so intense at work and then you're
00:21:26
probably gonna need some time away from
00:21:27
that person. You would think if if you
00:21:29
especially if you're not really clicking
00:21:30
>> and they genuinely like each other
00:21:33
>> and everything lines up. So like when
00:21:35
they go about doing things they
00:21:38
page like they're kind of like in lock
00:21:40
step with each other.
00:21:41
So, while Ian was settling into his more
00:21:43
peaceful era at home, Carl was also
00:21:45
finding love. During one of the many
00:21:48
parties held by fellow officer Bob Burke
00:21:50
during his early years on the force,
00:21:52
Carl met Helen Davis. Now, from the
00:21:55
moment they met, Carl was just so into
00:21:58
Helen.
00:21:59
>> I love love he was into her quick wit,
00:22:02
her decisive personality, her good sense
00:22:04
of humor. He loved her
00:22:06
>> like a a great girl.
00:22:08
>> Like a woman. Yeah. Now, while many of
00:22:10
the women who attended Bob's parties
00:22:12
were pretty timid and very much of this
00:22:14
era because that was the time. Yeah.
00:22:16
>> Helen was like very bold, very
00:22:19
self-possessed.
00:22:20
>> A hot ticket.
00:22:20
>> And most importantly, she was equally as
00:22:23
attracted to Carl.
00:22:24
>> Let's go.
00:22:24
>> And they dated for several months. And
00:22:26
in December of 1962, they ran off to Las
00:22:29
Vegas and got married.
00:22:31
>> Shut up. Which is funny because Ian's
00:22:33
wife is a Vegas show girl.
00:22:34
>> Yes. Again, their lives are just like
00:22:37
interlocking. It's so weird.
00:22:39
>> Now, like his new partner in the felony
00:22:42
car division, Carl had started to
00:22:44
envision a very bright future for
00:22:46
himself where he would be promoted to
00:22:48
detective as well and assigned to one of
00:22:50
the more prestigious divisions like
00:22:51
homicide or major crimes. Like they were
00:22:54
like ready.
00:22:54
>> Yeah. And they got that and then
00:22:55
everybody lived happily ever after and
00:22:57
we don't even actually know what we're
00:22:58
talking about.
00:22:58
>> What a great story everybody.
00:23:00
>> I'm rooting for the
00:23:01
>> onions. Who who who forget the onions.
00:23:04
Now, by then, he and Helen would have
00:23:05
moved into a little house of their own,
00:23:07
and in time, they would have started a
00:23:09
family. Like, he was envisioning this
00:23:10
whole thing.
00:23:11
>> Yeah.
00:23:11
>> Unfortunately,
00:23:13
what neither Carl nor Ian or their
00:23:16
respective wives envisioned was that in
00:23:19
a matter of just a few months, all of
00:23:21
those plans were going to come crashing
00:23:23
down around them in the wake of a
00:23:26
really, really inconceivable tragedy.
00:23:29
>> Oh, no. Now, this all started with a
00:23:32
simple traffic stop. On the early
00:23:35
>> This scares the [ __ ] out of me.
00:23:37
>> On the early evening of March 9th, 1963,
00:23:40
just nine days into their new
00:23:41
partnership, Ian got behind the wheel of
00:23:44
their unmarked police car, and Carl
00:23:46
settled settled into the passenger seat
00:23:48
next to him. That night, they were
00:23:50
working undercover, so they were dressed
00:23:52
in old, comfortable sport coats and
00:23:54
casual pants. That night, like the eight
00:23:56
nights before it, the officers were
00:23:58
headed out on patrol looking for anyone
00:24:00
committing a crime behind the wheel of a
00:24:01
car.
00:24:02
>> The most obvious offenders were drunk
00:24:05
drivers, the car thieves, the hit and
00:24:06
runs. They were easy to spot.
00:24:08
>> Yeah.
00:24:08
>> But they weren't necessarily the types
00:24:10
of people that they were on the lookout
00:24:11
for. So like a lot of the major cities
00:24:15
around the country, Los Angeles in the
00:24:16
1960s was definitely undergoing a big
00:24:20
social and cultural shift in terms of
00:24:23
marginalized communities. Yeah.
00:24:25
>> Up and down the coast, activist groups
00:24:27
were demanding equal treatment and
00:24:29
better opportunities while also
00:24:32
simultaneously demanding an end to the
00:24:34
brutality experienced by the members of
00:24:36
their communities at the hands of the
00:24:38
police and the public.
00:24:39
>> I thought that's where we were headed.
00:24:40
>> Yeah. inspired in large part of those by
00:24:43
those movements. At this point, gay,
00:24:46
lesbian, bisexual individuals like that
00:24:49
in whoop whoop in this uh in the San
00:24:52
Francisco and Los Angeles area started
00:24:54
mounting their own campaigns for
00:24:57
equality just demanding among other
00:24:59
things the decriminalization of same-sex
00:25:01
relationships.
00:25:02
>> That'd be pretty dope.
00:25:03
>> That would be pretty sick.
00:25:04
>> Big fan of that.
00:25:04
>> In an end to the anti-gay violence that
00:25:07
had resulted from the increased
00:25:09
visibility.
00:25:09
>> Yeah, that's also good. So this is great
00:25:12
like this is all good stuff. This is
00:25:14
thing you know things moving forward.
00:25:17
>> Now in a somewhat ironic twist the
00:25:19
officers who just a few years earlier
00:25:21
had spent countless nights accosting
00:25:24
harassing and busting sometimes gay men
00:25:28
in the parks. They were now tasked with
00:25:31
hitting hitting the streets and
00:25:32
protecting those same individuals from
00:25:34
violence and anything else that might
00:25:36
occur. the flip the script had flipped
00:25:39
very quickly in the best kind of way.
00:25:41
Yeah. It's just like it's very ironic to
00:25:44
see that like you were tasked with this
00:25:46
and now good luck.
00:25:48
>> Yeah.
00:25:48
>> Um but now
00:25:50
>> it's important to note that while it may
00:25:52
have been the job their job to protect
00:25:54
>> every resident of Los Angeles from the
00:25:58
jump. That was their job. That's the
00:26:00
oath they took. Many if not most of the
00:26:02
men on the force had a particular
00:26:04
disdain for particularly gay men
00:26:07
>> and weren't exactly thrilled to be
00:26:09
dealing with them at all much less now
00:26:11
having to protect them which is like
00:26:13
they think that makes them gay
00:26:15
>> which is like imagine
00:26:17
>> how terrible
00:26:17
>> not being thrilled with having to
00:26:19
protect humans.
00:26:21
>> No,
00:26:22
>> your fellow humans.
00:26:24
>> Hold on. Hold on. No point. Imagine
00:26:26
that. Uh, regardless of their personal
00:26:28
feelings though, Carl and Ian because
00:26:30
like I'm I'm not saying that's how they
00:26:32
felt. I'm saying that was the general
00:26:33
consensus on the force at the time.
00:26:36
>> Carl and Ian were both men of integrity.
00:26:39
So when the reports began coming in that
00:26:41
various, you know, men were being
00:26:43
assaulted and robbed and, you know, in
00:26:46
their cars, especially when they were
00:26:47
together and and somebody thought they
00:26:49
were like a gay couple. the officers
00:26:51
accepted the assignment that they had to
00:26:53
go take care of this and they did that
00:26:55
without any protests, without any
00:26:57
complaints as many of the other officers
00:26:59
did.
00:27:00
>> Now, I'm not saying give them a medal
00:27:03
for that, but I'm just saying
00:27:04
>> no, it's just it's nice to know that
00:27:05
they were on the right side of things.
00:27:06
>> I just want to be clear that like
00:27:08
>> we're not talking [ __ ] here.
00:27:10
>> Yeah, that's all. I'm not trying to give
00:27:11
anyone a medal or say that that's like
00:27:13
going above and beyond to like protect
00:27:15
your fellow person,
00:27:17
>> but this is just who they were. Now,
00:27:19
that night before Hedinger and Campbell
00:27:21
left the station to patrol, they ran
00:27:23
into Lieutenant Max Hurlbot, who
00:27:25
remembered them saying something about
00:27:27
how they'd been assigned to quote, "work
00:27:29
up suspects in a string of crimes
00:27:31
against gays." That's a quote.
00:27:33
>> Okay.
00:27:34
>> Uh the officers set out and spent hours
00:27:36
driving around Los Angeles without
00:27:38
seeing even a traffic violation. And it
00:27:40
was a very slow night until about 1000
00:27:42
p.m. when they noticed two young men in
00:27:44
a 1946 Ford coupe driving slowly down
00:27:47
one of the city's major roads. Now, the
00:27:50
men in the Ford, they were 29-year-old
00:27:53
uh Gregory Powell and 30-year-old Jimmy
00:27:56
Lee Smith. Both of them were career
00:27:58
criminals with long wrap sheets that
00:28:00
included, you know, various forms of
00:28:02
theft and robbery, a ton of drug
00:28:05
charges, just a bunch of stuff. Like
00:28:07
Carl and Ian, Powell and Smith had met
00:28:09
just nine days earlier, which is weird.
00:28:12
>> When a fellow exconvict introduced them
00:28:15
and suggested they could work together
00:28:16
on a few small robbery jobs,
00:28:18
>> terrible.
00:28:19
>> Uh Smith said of Powell years later,
00:28:22
"This just a wild way to describe
00:28:23
someone." He was a funnyl looking guy. I
00:28:25
mean, you could tell he wasn't eating
00:28:27
right. Kind of lean and hungry looking,
00:28:29
but then so was I.
00:28:30
>> What?
00:28:32
>> What? It's like,
00:28:33
>> excuse me. Drew and I just watched Fargo
00:28:35
for the first time, which I thought was
00:28:36
like going to be similar to The Case.
00:28:39
>> Yeah.
00:28:39
>> Not The Case. It's literally like a
00:28:41
completely different movie. But they
00:28:43
keep describing one of the I think it's
00:28:44
Joe Peshy as or sorry, not Joe Peshi.
00:28:47
Duh. Steve Bushi as a funnyl looking
00:28:49
guy.
00:28:49
>> Funny looking guy.
00:28:50
>> Yeah. Funny looking guy.
00:28:52
>> That's it.
00:28:52
>> Just a funny looking
00:29:06
Now, like Hedinger and Campbell, Greg
00:29:08
and Jimmy quickly learned that they had
00:29:10
more than the usual things in common.
00:29:12
Both had grown up in unstable and
00:29:14
sometimes even unsafe homes. Yeah.
00:29:16
>> And of course, both had spent the
00:29:18
majority of their adult lives in and out
00:29:20
of California's various jails and
00:29:22
prisons and all kinds of things. Sad.
00:29:24
And if anything, while they were there,
00:29:26
they just learned to become better
00:29:27
criminals.
00:29:28
>> Uh the two men hit it off immediately
00:29:30
and agreed to work together. But very
00:29:32
quickly, they also developed possibly a
00:29:35
more intimate relationship.
00:29:36
>> Okay.
00:29:37
>> It's always been somewhat unclear,
00:29:39
>> and that's why I don't want to put any
00:29:41
kind of label on what they were or
00:29:43
weren't, what their relationship was.
00:29:44
That's just a part of who they are.
00:29:47
>> Um now, it was just past 10 p.m. and
00:29:50
Carl and Ian were discussing where they
00:29:52
were going to go for dinner. Carl and
00:29:53
Ian are the police officers.
00:29:55
>> Uh and that's when they spotted the 1946
00:29:57
Ford driven by Powell as they came out
00:29:59
of an alley.
00:30:01
>> Now again, they were out looking for
00:30:03
suspects in a string of pretty violent
00:30:05
crimes committed against gay men in the
00:30:07
area. The quick flash of light that fell
00:30:09
over the men in the car was enough to
00:30:10
catch the attention of the officers. In
00:30:13
Joseph Wamb's retelling of the incident
00:30:15
in the Onion Field I mentioned earlier,
00:30:17
it's uh cited in the show notes. He
00:30:19
speculates that Powell and Smith maybe
00:30:22
aroused the suspicions of the officers
00:30:24
like pretty quickly. And he says it was
00:30:26
patently obvious Powell and Smith were
00:30:28
not ordinary out of town tourists. The
00:30:31
snap brim leather caps were rare enough,
00:30:33
but with matching leather jackets, they
00:30:35
were almost absurdly suspicious, even
00:30:37
contrived.
00:30:38
>> Wow.
00:30:38
>> Yeah. But Hedinger and Campbell couldn't
00:30:40
pull the men over simply because they
00:30:42
looked like Nardwells.
00:30:44
>> They could not pull them over simply
00:30:45
because they had matching jackets. like,
00:30:48
you know, that's not supposed to be the
00:30:49
case. At least they needed something
00:30:51
more concrete that at least resembled a
00:30:53
crime. So, they pull out behind the Ford
00:30:56
and boom, they get what they need
00:30:58
because a burned out rear license plate
00:31:00
light. That's all it takes.
00:31:01
>> That'll do it.
00:31:02
>> Uh, then just moments after, Campbell
00:31:04
noticed the burned out plate light. Greg
00:31:06
Powell gave them even more of an excuse
00:31:08
to pull over when he made an illegal
00:31:10
U-turn. So, they were like, "We got him.
00:31:12
>> You can't bang a UI."
00:31:14
>> No, you can't bang a UI. Not in Los
00:31:15
Angeles. Oh, you can always bang a UI
00:31:17
and bastard.
00:31:17
>> Always.
00:31:18
>> Now, continuing to follow behind the
00:31:20
Ford, Campbell threw his arm out the
00:31:22
window and put the flashing red light,
00:31:24
cuz they're undercover, on top of the
00:31:26
car, then blew the horn, letting the
00:31:28
driver know that he's got to pull over.
00:31:31
>> When they saw the light in the rearview
00:31:32
mirror, Jimmy panicked, pulling the 38
00:31:35
caliber pistol from his jacket pocket
00:31:37
and dropping it on the floor and then
00:31:39
kicking it over to the other side of the
00:31:40
car where it landed next to Greg
00:31:42
Powell's foot. Uh, now although his eyes
00:31:45
were fixed on the car in the rear view,
00:31:47
Greg felt this thing hit his foot and
00:31:50
without looking, he knew exactly what he
00:31:52
had just kicked over to him. And with
00:31:54
his eyes still in the mirror, he tried
00:31:55
as best he could to calm uh Jimmy down.
00:31:59
He was reminding him like, "There's no
00:32:00
need to panic. This is a traffic
00:32:01
violation. Don't [ __ ] go crazy.
00:32:03
>> Don't kick me a gun."
00:32:04
>> Yeah. Like, what are you doing? Greg
00:32:06
Powell looked in his side mirror and
00:32:08
watched as Ian Campbell approached the
00:32:10
car on the driver's side.
00:32:11
>> He'd been through all this before.
00:32:13
Obviously, he's a career crim criminal.
00:32:14
>> Yeah, he's been stopped in traffic.
00:32:15
>> So, he kept his hands firmly placed on
00:32:17
the wheel and didn't make any sudden
00:32:19
movements. Now, at the time, however, he
00:32:22
was moving the gun on the floor into the
00:32:24
space between the seat and the door.
00:32:26
>> So, yeah. So, he wouldn't see it.
00:32:27
>> Trying to get it out of sight. Yeah. He
00:32:29
But he was like, I wanted it to be
00:32:30
accessible cuz I don't know what's going
00:32:31
to happen and I'm a career criminal. So,
00:32:34
>> as he approached the door, Campbell
00:32:36
announced himself as a police officer
00:32:38
and Powell said, "Oh Lord, I know what
00:32:40
I'm getting a ticket for this time."
00:32:42
because this happened to him often. But
00:32:44
in his head, he also knew that
00:32:46
undercover police officers didn't give
00:32:49
traffic tickets,
00:32:50
>> right?
00:32:50
>> And it was unlikely he would be able to
00:32:52
bluff his way out of this situation. But
00:32:55
the two men just kind of talked to each
00:32:56
other, exchanged, you know, ordinary
00:32:58
traffic stop [ __ ] Uh Campbell asked to
00:33:00
see Powell's ID, asked a few questions
00:33:02
like, "When did you get into town?" And
00:33:05
then asked the question that Greg Powell
00:33:06
and Jimmy Lee Smith were hoping not to
00:33:08
hear. Would you mind stepping out of the
00:33:11
car? No.
00:33:12
>> Powell protested and he was like, "What
00:33:14
are we being stopped for? Why do I need
00:33:15
to get out of the car?" But Campbell
00:33:16
just said, "It's just routine." Now, as
00:33:19
he slowly opened the door, Powell could
00:33:21
see that Ian Campbell was holding a
00:33:23
flashlight. And while he presumed the
00:33:25
officer had a gun on him, it would have
00:33:27
taken him at least a few seconds to get
00:33:29
it because he couldn't see it from where
00:33:31
he was.
00:33:32
>> So, Greg opened the door a little
00:33:33
faster, which was when Ian looked down
00:33:35
and saw the 38 caliber pistol in his
00:33:38
hand because he grabbed it. He wanted it
00:33:40
accessible. was right there. But by the
00:33:42
time everything clicked into place in
00:33:43
Ian's mind, it was too late. Powell was
00:33:46
already out of the car and had managed
00:33:48
to spin Ian Campbell around, holding him
00:33:51
by his sports coat and pressing the gun
00:33:53
into his back,
00:33:54
>> using Campbell as like a shield
00:33:56
essentially. Now, from the passenger
00:33:58
seat of the police car, Carl Hedinger
00:34:01
watched everything happening and was
00:34:03
like completely confused by what just
00:34:04
occurred.
00:34:05
>> Yeah. I just stopped you for a traffic
00:34:07
violation
00:34:08
>> and he couldn't see the details. So he's
00:34:09
just like, "What the [ __ ] is going on?"
00:34:11
From where he was sitting, it appeared
00:34:12
Ian and the driver were walking towards
00:34:14
the back of the car. But it occurred to
00:34:16
Carl that Ian was walking in front of
00:34:18
the driver, not behind him, and protocol
00:34:21
did not dictate that.
00:34:22
>> Yeah.
00:34:23
>> By the time he was out of the car and
00:34:24
closer to the suspects, Jimmy Lee Smith
00:34:26
was also out of the car, and a
00:34:28
bewildered Carl stood before all three
00:34:31
of these guys, still confused by what
00:34:33
the [ __ ] was happening here. And Carl
00:34:35
snapped back into focus when he heard
00:34:36
Greg Powell tell Smith, "Take his
00:34:39
piece."
00:34:40
Carl stepped back and put his hand on
00:34:42
his revolver, ready to pull it out of
00:34:44
the holster. But he heard Ian Campbell,
00:34:46
his partner, say, "He's got a gun on me.
00:34:48
Give him your gun."
00:34:50
>> Oh.
00:34:50
>> Now, at this time, and we'll go further
00:34:53
into this later, there wasn't protocol
00:34:55
for this. This didn't happen a lot. So,
00:34:57
this wasn't pro there was no protocol.
00:34:59
They weren't taught what to do in this
00:35:01
situation.
00:35:01
>> Yeah. I mean, what do you do? I don't
00:35:03
know. That's the thing. By this point,
00:35:04
Carl had removed his gun from his
00:35:06
holster and was pointing it in the
00:35:08
direction of Powell, who was still
00:35:09
shielded by Campbell.
00:35:11
>> Yeah. And Ian's just trying not to get
00:35:12
shot, so that's why he's like, "Give him
00:35:14
your piece."
00:35:14
>> And Carl later said, "I didn't want to
00:35:16
give up my weapon, but my partner had a
00:35:18
gun to his back and asked me to give it
00:35:20
up several times." The men all stared at
00:35:23
one another for probably what seemed
00:35:25
like an eternity, all while cars are
00:35:27
whizzing by them.
00:35:28
>> Hello,
00:35:28
>> by the way, Los Angeles.
00:35:30
>> Yeah, for real. They're like, "Uh, I got
00:35:31
to go about my life." And Carl is
00:35:32
sitting there trying to quickly mull
00:35:34
over what his options are. If he didn't
00:35:37
put his gun down, the driver might shoot
00:35:39
Campbell. But if he did surrender the
00:35:40
weapon, it was entirely possible he
00:35:42
might shoot them both.
00:35:43
>> Right.
00:35:44
>> So Carl was now pointing the gun at
00:35:45
Smith
00:35:47
>> who was standing by the back of the ford
00:35:49
completely still as a statue. Then he
00:35:51
heard a voice from the other direction
00:35:53
and swung the gun the other way. It was
00:35:55
Campbell and he was begging Carl to give
00:35:58
up his gun
00:35:59
>> cuz he's like, "I don't want to get
00:36:00
shot." With no good options left, Carl
00:36:02
could feel the grip on his revolver
00:36:04
loosening because he was like, so he was
00:36:06
still holding I guess he like loosened
00:36:08
it to just like kind of hold it in two
00:36:10
fingers and he just raised it like
00:36:13
dangled it from his fingers and Smith
00:36:15
stepped forward and just plucked it out
00:36:16
of his hand.
00:36:17
>> Okay. Now, all four men stood perfectly
00:36:20
still, just standing there, staring at
00:36:23
each other for a few moments.
00:36:25
>> And then Carl started to move like
00:36:27
slightly, like making circles on the
00:36:29
ground with his flashlight beam.
00:36:31
>> Okay?
00:36:31
>> Cuz he was trying to signal to any
00:36:33
passing drivers that like something is
00:36:34
happening.
00:36:36
>> And he later told a jury, he said, "We
00:36:38
stood at the side of the street with our
00:36:39
hands in the air and flashlights in our
00:36:41
hands." and he said, "We stood there for
00:36:43
about 15 seconds in silence trying to
00:36:46
wave around my arm and draw the
00:36:48
attention of someone. I saw cars going
00:36:50
both directions. Many of the drivers saw
00:36:52
us waving our arms, but no one stopped."
00:36:55
Wow. Finally, whatever was going on
00:36:58
here, the silence spell was broken and
00:37:00
Powell like snapped back to life and
00:37:02
directed Smith to move the unmarked
00:37:04
police car further away from the road.
00:37:06
While Smith turned off the flashing red
00:37:08
light and moved the car, Powell
00:37:10
instructed Campbell to get behind the
00:37:11
wheel of the Ford and he motioned for
00:37:13
Headinger to get in the back seat.
00:37:15
>> Okay,
00:37:16
>> so all four men had piled into their car
00:37:18
now and Greg Powell became very
00:37:21
agitated. He said more to himself than
00:37:24
them, I think. He said, "I've already
00:37:25
killed two people. I didn't want to get
00:37:27
in this business, but now that I'm in
00:37:29
it, I got to go all the way."
00:37:31
>> Oh, [ __ ]
00:37:32
>> Like, what the [ __ ] Hearing that.
00:37:34
>> Yeah. No. So Powell instructed Ian to
00:37:38
drive to in the direction of the
00:37:39
Hollywood Freeway and not do anything to
00:37:41
attract attention. Powell told them the
00:37:44
plan was to drive them out to some
00:37:45
remote location in the north where they
00:37:47
would let the two officers go. He said,
00:37:49
"We'll take you guys up on the ridge
00:37:51
road, turn off on a side road, drop you
00:37:53
off, and make sure you have to walk a
00:37:55
long way back to the highway." Powell
00:37:57
said that's what Powell told them. Greg
00:38:00
went a step further. Greg Powell,
00:38:02
telling them that he would quote, "throw
00:38:04
the officer's guns into the brush where
00:38:06
they could be found after he and Smith
00:38:07
had left."
00:38:08
>> Okay.
00:38:09
>> Powell even went so far as to return a
00:38:12
small amount of money he'd stolen from
00:38:13
Campbell earlier as a sign of good
00:38:15
faith.
00:38:16
>> Okay.
00:38:17
>> So, they're as they're driving, Powell
00:38:19
and Smith are carrying on a very quiet,
00:38:21
whispered conversation that neither
00:38:22
Campbell nor Hettinger could hear. When
00:38:25
the kidnappers weren't talking to each
00:38:27
other, Carl and Ian tried to engage them
00:38:29
in conversation. They told them about
00:38:31
their families and how both were eager
00:38:34
to return safely to them. So there
00:38:36
should be no concern about either of
00:38:39
them trying to escape or flag down help
00:38:41
because they said, "We just want to get
00:38:42
back to our families."
00:38:43
>> And the talk of the officer's wives and
00:38:45
children seemed to agitate Smith, who
00:38:48
constantly told them to stop talking,
00:38:51
>> which means he has a plan to kill you.
00:38:53
>> But Powell seemed unbothered and even a
00:38:55
little amused by the whole thing
00:38:56
>> because he's crazy.
00:38:58
>> Yeah. It seemed, at least for a time
00:39:00
though, that it was at least having the
00:39:01
desired effect of like relaxing the
00:39:03
tension in the car a little bit. So to
00:39:05
Ian and Carl, it felt like the tension
00:39:08
in the car maybe decreased a little bit
00:39:10
as they were driving north, but it
00:39:12
didn't really have a lot to do with the
00:39:13
conversation that they were trying to
00:39:15
have. Years later, Jimmy Smith would
00:39:17
recall the conversation between he and
00:39:19
Powell as they were driving. He said,
00:39:21
"Jimmy, I told you it was only a matter
00:39:23
of time before it would come to this."
00:39:25
That's what Powell said to him.
00:39:26
>> What the [ __ ] have they been doing? and
00:39:27
he said, "It's either them or us.
00:39:29
Remember the Lindberg law." He didn't
00:39:32
come right out and say it, but when Greg
00:39:34
mentioned the Lindberg law, Jimmy knew
00:39:36
exactly what he meant.
00:39:37
>> What is that?
00:39:38
>> They had kidnapped two police officers
00:39:40
at gunpoint, and if they were caught,
00:39:42
they would almost certainly be given the
00:39:44
death penalty.
00:39:44
>> Oh [ __ ]
00:39:45
>> And the only way to ensure that they
00:39:46
didn't get caught was to get rid of any
00:39:48
witnesses. It came from the Lindberg
00:39:50
baby kidnapping, which we have not
00:39:52
covered yet, and I do want to cover it.
00:39:54
>> I know. It's so weird that we haven't
00:39:55
covered that. I always think we have
00:39:57
always Yeah, it's always on my list.
00:39:59
>> Um, we talked about it on Crime
00:40:01
Countdown once, I think, and that's why
00:40:03
I think we covered it all the time,
00:40:05
>> but it came from that
00:40:06
>> that case.
00:40:07
>> It also makes me think of the Solder
00:40:09
Children cuz I think we briefly talked
00:40:10
about it when we went over that case,
00:40:12
which was like one of the first
00:40:13
episodes, I think.
00:40:14
>> Now, they continued driving north for a
00:40:17
very long time, passing out of Los
00:40:19
Angeles. More than an hour had passed
00:40:21
when Powell spoke up again, and he said,
00:40:23
"We've changed our plan. We're going to
00:40:25
hold you guys until we stop a family
00:40:27
car. We need hostages. When we get some,
00:40:30
we'll let you guys go. We know you're
00:40:32
cops and have a job to do, but if you
00:40:34
turn us in, we'll kill every member of
00:40:36
that family.
00:40:38
>> Okay. Carl and Ian both promised not to
00:40:40
take any action. And Carl said, "We're
00:40:43
both family men and want to get back to
00:40:44
our families alive."
00:40:46
>> Yeah. Now, after about an hour and a
00:40:48
half, they've reached the valley just
00:40:50
out of Bakersfield when Powell said he
00:40:52
knew of a dirt road nearby and
00:40:53
instructed Ian to pull off the highway
00:40:55
at the next exit. So, they drove down
00:40:58
this dark country road and Powell
00:40:59
pointed to the farmhouse off in the
00:41:01
distance and said, "That's the farmhouse
00:41:03
you're going to hike back to to make
00:41:04
your call." It seemed like they were
00:41:08
actually giving them, they're like,
00:41:09
"Okay, we're going down here. That house
00:41:11
right there you can go to and you can
00:41:12
make your call. You're not going to turn
00:41:14
us in. at your call to get back to
00:41:16
wherever you need to get back to. It
00:41:17
seems like they're setting them up as
00:41:18
like we are going to let you go. Carl
00:41:22
looked out the window and saw what
00:41:23
looked to be farmland as far as he could
00:41:26
see in every direction, which must have
00:41:27
been
00:41:27
>> sad because he loves farms.
00:41:30
>> And Powell said, "Stop the car. Turn off
00:41:32
the lights. This is where we're going to
00:41:33
let you go."
00:41:35
>> So Jimmy Smith turned and looked at Carl
00:41:37
Hedinger, who had spent the entire ride
00:41:39
squished into the back compartment of
00:41:40
the car, by the way.
00:41:42
>> Who did? Sorry.
00:41:43
>> Uh Carl. Okay.
00:41:44
>> And Jimmy recalled uh he was breathing
00:41:47
funny again. Couldn't get enough air. So
00:41:50
he was like stressed out back there like
00:41:52
trying and um Jimmy was remembering how
00:41:55
Greg had told him he didn't want to tie
00:41:56
the hostages up earlier that night and
00:41:59
his comment about the Lindberg law and
00:42:01
he's like I don't think we're letting
00:42:03
them go. like that was he was like but
00:42:06
if Carl and Ian picked up on Smith's
00:42:08
anxiety or the fact that that previous
00:42:10
plan that they were said they were going
00:42:12
with wasn't happening and that like they
00:42:14
weren't going to kidnap a family and
00:42:16
like all that [ __ ]
00:42:17
>> Neither of them let them know that they
00:42:20
knew
00:42:20
>> okay
00:42:20
>> that the plan was being abandoned kind
00:42:22
of thing that they had a totally
00:42:24
different idea like later Jimmy was like
00:42:26
it seemed like they thought we were
00:42:27
going to let them go
00:42:28
>> like they thought we were being real.
00:42:30
Now Powell instructed the two men to get
00:42:32
out of the car. And Ian opened the door
00:42:34
and slid out while Carl struggled to get
00:42:36
out of the seats and out into the front.
00:42:39
And outside the car, they could smell
00:42:40
the dirt and acres of onions planted in
00:42:43
the fields on both sides of them. It is
00:42:45
a massive onion field.
00:42:47
>> Um they said it even caused all their
00:42:49
eyes to tear up. It was that much like
00:42:50
the pungent stench.
00:42:52
>> Yeah.
00:42:53
>> Uh were not for the moon that night and
00:42:55
a lot of stars, it would have been pitch
00:42:58
black. Oh, so freaky.
00:43:00
>> The only sound they could hear was
00:43:02
crickets.
00:43:02
>> Oh,
00:43:03
>> yeah.
00:43:04
>> With their arms raised high above their
00:43:05
heads, Ian and Carl stood before Powell,
00:43:08
who was still holding Ian's gun in his
00:43:10
hand. And Powell said, "We told you we
00:43:12
were going to let you guys go, but have
00:43:14
you ever heard of the little Lindberg
00:43:16
law?" "Oh, no." Ian had barely begun to
00:43:21
open his mouth to say the word yes when
00:43:23
Powell raised the gun and fired and shot
00:43:26
him directly in the mouth.
00:43:29
Oh my god. The blast knocked Ian off his
00:43:32
feet, sending him into the air briefly
00:43:35
before landing hard on his back. He laid
00:43:37
there moaning on the ground, and Powell
00:43:39
walked over and stood directly over him
00:43:41
and fired four more shots directly into
00:43:43
his chest.
00:43:46
And Jimmy Smith said later, "I can only
00:43:48
remember his arm and his hand. Each time
00:43:50
a bullet hit him, his hand would jerk
00:43:52
and jump up like he was grabbing for
00:43:53
you."
00:43:54
>> Oh,
00:43:55
>> yeah. now
00:43:57
>> and he's a father of two ch two
00:44:00
daughters
00:44:00
>> like
00:44:02
>> it's just
00:44:04
>> who had just been newly married wanted
00:44:06
to become a detective studied zoology
00:44:09
like that [ __ ] breaks my heart and
00:44:11
all they did was stop these two [ __ ]
00:44:14
for a traffic violation
00:44:16
>> yeah also what the [ __ ] are these two
00:44:19
doing that's they're [ __ ] crazy like
00:44:23
these are career criminals that it's
00:44:27
it's just it's senseless. Completely
00:44:29
senseless. That's what makes this so sad
00:44:32
is like that this is a completely
00:44:35
completely senseless crime.
00:44:38
>> Yeah.
00:44:38
>> Although he didn't remember doing this,
00:44:40
Carl let out later they told the jury
00:44:44
that Carl let out a long loud scream the
00:44:47
moment his partner hit the ground.
00:44:48
>> Yeah, of course he did. That's it must
00:44:50
have been horrific to witness. And
00:44:53
that's like his friend and his partner.
00:44:55
Like they've worked together.
00:44:57
>> Yeah. The noise broke the kidnapper's
00:44:59
concentration and they looked up just in
00:45:01
time to see Carl lurching away from them
00:45:04
in the direction of the onion field. He
00:45:06
just managed to hurl himself through the
00:45:08
bramblepacked barbwire fence, ripping
00:45:11
his hands and face in the process and
00:45:13
was trying to catch his breath when he
00:45:14
heard the sound of footsteps and heavy
00:45:16
heavy breathing coming. They were
00:45:18
chasing him.
00:45:19
>> Yeah. He knew they were after him and
00:45:20
they were intending to kill him just as
00:45:23
they killed Ian. And he had nowhere to
00:45:25
run and nowhere to hide at this moment.
00:45:27
And the realization that he might die
00:45:29
was all the motivation he needed. And
00:45:31
just seconds after he'd made it through
00:45:33
the fence, he was on his feet and he was
00:45:35
running harder and faster than he ever
00:45:37
ran before.
00:45:38
>> Sure.
00:45:38
>> Now back on the road, Jimmy had run back
00:45:40
to the car to get the flashlights, which
00:45:42
he handed over to Powell as soon as he
00:45:44
got back to where Greg was standing. And
00:45:46
in order to get a better view, Powell
00:45:48
climbed up on top of one of the fence
00:45:50
posts and swept the flashlight beam back
00:45:52
and forth across the fields, expecting
00:45:55
to find Hettinger crouched in the low
00:45:57
leaves of onions in the ground.
00:45:59
>> I'm like, no, he's running, honey.
00:46:00
>> And imagine being like I like cuz at
00:46:03
this point Carl started running, but
00:46:06
he's trying to hide whenever that beam
00:46:07
comes. So, he's out of breath, not
00:46:09
wanting to give away his position, and
00:46:11
he made himself as small as he could to
00:46:13
try to catch his breath while this light
00:46:15
is sweeping around.
00:46:16
>> When he looked at his watch, he saw that
00:46:18
it was 12:15 a.m. It had been over 2
00:46:20
hours since they last checked in with
00:46:22
the dispatcher and their fellow officers
00:46:24
at this point were definitely going to
00:46:26
be looking for them because if they're
00:46:28
not hearing from them, something's
00:46:29
wrong, right?
00:46:30
>> But there was no way they would find
00:46:31
them because they're 2 hours onion
00:46:33
field.
00:46:34
>> They're in Bakersfield in an onion
00:46:36
field. As he lay in the field watching
00:46:38
the beam of light sweeping back and
00:46:40
forth, he said he remembered that
00:46:43
farmhouse that he'd seen about a mile
00:46:45
down the road, the one Powell said they
00:46:47
could walk to once they let them go.
00:46:49
>> And that seemed like the most logical
00:46:51
place to look for help. But it also
00:46:53
seemed like the first place that Powell
00:46:54
and Smith would look. So he was like,
00:46:56
"I'm not going to go there."
00:46:57
>> Okay. Yeah. Now, Carl was just getting
00:46:59
his energy back and thinking of a plan
00:47:01
when a large group of clouds passed over
00:47:03
him and it blocked out the moon, which
00:47:05
is probably good. Yep. If ever there was
00:47:08
a moment to make a break for it, it was
00:47:10
when it was pitch [ __ ] black. So, he
00:47:13
quietly stands up and just starts
00:47:15
running again. This time towards the
00:47:17
south, which he hoped was the last place
00:47:19
they would think to look. And as he
00:47:21
crept along the fence,
00:47:22
>> do you even know where you're running at
00:47:23
that point?
00:47:23
>> That's the thing. You're in a giant.
00:47:24
>> What if you just run right back into
00:47:26
them?
00:47:26
>> Yeah. Carl could see though as he's
00:47:28
creeping along the fence that Powell was
00:47:30
back behind the wheel of the Ford and
00:47:31
was driving slowly down the road,
00:47:33
flashing his flashlight into the fields.
00:47:36
>> Oh my god.
00:47:36
>> At the same time, Jimmy Smith was still
00:47:39
walking back and forth along the
00:47:40
perimeter of the field, looking for any
00:47:42
movement.
00:47:43
>> Mhm.
00:47:43
>> In the meantime, Carl had run south,
00:47:46
then west, then doubled back, hoping he
00:47:48
could shake them.
00:47:49
>> Being literally hunted.
00:47:51
>> Literally hunted. He ran until he saw
00:47:54
some lights off in the distance. But
00:47:56
without his glasses, cuz he lost his
00:47:58
glasses in all this, by the way,
00:47:59
everybody,
00:48:00
>> he lost He needs his glasses.
00:48:02
>> He needs his glasses.
00:48:04
>> He couldn't and without them, he
00:48:05
couldn't know whether they were a sign
00:48:06
of safety or danger at this point.
00:48:08
>> Yeah.
00:48:09
>> Um, finally, after running for a few
00:48:11
more minutes, he spotted something that
00:48:12
he'd seen a million times and made him
00:48:14
feel so much better. It was a
00:48:16
caterpillar tractor parked in a field
00:48:18
adjacent to the farmhouse because he was
00:48:20
like, "I know how to work one of those
00:48:22
if I have to." All right. But he didn't
00:48:25
have to because Emanuel McFaden had been
00:48:27
working the late shift in the fields
00:48:29
that day and was just wrapping up a
00:48:31
little before 12:30 when he saw a shape
00:48:33
come shambling out of the fields towards
00:48:35
his house.
00:48:35
>> That must have been [ __ ] horrifying.
00:48:37
>> Oh yeah. By then, Carl had covered
00:48:39
nearly 2 miles at a pace faster than
00:48:42
he'd ever run before and was exhausted.
00:48:44
He was operating on sheer terror and
00:48:46
adrenaline at the time
00:48:47
>> and the will to live.
00:48:48
>> But McFatin, the farmer, said, "I was so
00:48:51
scared. At first, I thought it was an
00:48:52
animal coming up like that." And I
00:48:54
picked up a shovel I carried on the cat
00:48:56
and I was ready to hit it when it came
00:48:58
up on me. And it was a minute.
00:49:00
>> I'm sorry. Can you imagine if after all
00:49:01
that he just gets [ __ ] taken out by a
00:49:03
shovel
00:49:04
>> with a shel with a shovel?
00:49:06
>> Not a shower.
00:49:07
>> Not a show. I thought of a tel for some
00:49:10
weird reason. Um, but he said, "I I I
00:49:13
saw it was a man with his clothes half
00:49:15
tore off."
00:49:16
>> Not wanting to get involved, McFaten at
00:49:19
first tried to ignore Carl. He was like,
00:49:21
"I don't know who this is. Just run
00:49:22
through my farm. Go."
00:49:23
>> They said, "You go right ahead." But it
00:49:25
soon became clear that he could not
00:49:26
ignore him. Because Carl tried to
00:49:28
explain what had happened, telling him
00:49:30
that he was a police officer and two men
00:49:32
had killed his partner. As Carl talked,
00:49:34
they noticed a light coming through the
00:49:36
field. So, both men broke out into a
00:49:39
run.
00:49:39
>> Oh god. But by then, Carl could barely
00:49:42
stand, let alone run. Not wanting to
00:49:44
die, McFatin continued to run away from
00:49:46
the killers and from Carl. But
00:49:49
eventually, he realized he couldn't
00:49:50
leave Carl behind. So, he returned and
00:49:53
together they slowly made their way to
00:49:55
civilization together. So, this dude was
00:49:58
about to get the [ __ ] out of dodge and
00:50:00
then was like, "Can't leave this guy."
00:50:02
And went back and got him. fat in.
00:50:05
>> He had a moment of like not great and
00:50:09
then he said, "No, I got to go get him."
00:50:11
Which I give him credit for.
00:50:13
>> Now, if Greg Powell had ever thought to
00:50:15
look to his right at various points as
00:50:17
he drove down the road and back, he
00:50:19
would have definitely seen them huddled
00:50:22
in the rows of onions.
00:50:24
>> But Luck seemed to be on Carl's side at
00:50:26
this point, and neither of his pursuers
00:50:28
had caught sight of him or
00:50:30
>> so happy, but like you didn't think to
00:50:32
look to the right. didn't see him on
00:50:34
that side. After 10 or so minutes of
00:50:37
searching, Powell and Smith decided to
00:50:39
give up and Smith got back into the Ford
00:50:41
and Powell then drove to the uh Maricopa
00:50:45
Highway and they were hoping they would
00:50:47
be off. They're just on their way
00:50:49
>> after killing a police officer in a
00:50:50
field. Now, with McFaten's help, our
00:50:53
farmer friend, Carl made it to the
00:50:55
nearby home of local rancher Jack Fry,
00:50:58
who listened very patiently as they
00:51:00
explained what had happened. When the
00:51:02
two men finished telling the story, Fry
00:51:04
said, "I'll get my guns. You go ahead
00:51:06
and make your call." Iconic. Well, Fry
00:51:08
loaded his guns. His teenage son went
00:51:11
about the house dimming lights and
00:51:12
pulling curtains, and his wife tended to
00:51:14
Carl's wounds.
00:51:15
>> A
00:51:16
>> Yeah,
00:51:16
>> we love community.
00:51:17
>> We love community. Farm community
00:51:19
especially. It was a little past 1:00
00:51:21
a.m. when Carl got through the Kern
00:51:23
County Sheriff's Office and he gave the
00:51:25
deputy on the other's end a truncated
00:51:27
version of the story and asked him to
00:51:29
get the description out of to law
00:51:31
enforcement across the state and in the
00:51:34
surrounding states. And Carl also asked
00:51:36
that the deputy get in touch with the
00:51:37
Hollywood division of the LAPD on his
00:51:40
behalf, completely unaware that after
00:51:42
already having found the unmarked car
00:51:44
abandoned an hour or so ago, they were
00:51:47
already desperately searching for them.
00:51:49
Now, around the time that Carl was on
00:51:51
the phone uh with the deputy from the
00:51:53
sheriff's office, Jimmy Smith and Greg
00:51:55
Powell had officially split up.
00:51:57
>> Oh. After ditching the Ford a few miles
00:52:00
from the onion field, Powell stole a car
00:52:02
from a nearby farm and was well on his
00:52:04
way to Los Angeles, hoping that he could
00:52:07
beat Jimmy Smith back to the city
00:52:10
because he said if Jimmy made it before
00:52:12
him, Greg Powell knew he would go
00:52:14
straight to the police and tell them
00:52:16
that Greg had killed a police officer.
00:52:19
What?
00:52:19
>> Isn't that crazy? He knew that Jimmy
00:52:22
Smith would have turned him in.
00:52:24
>> That's why I'm like, why are you [ __ ]
00:52:26
working with me?
00:52:26
>> Which I wonder if it's because and and I
00:52:29
wonder if it's because Jimmy didn't have
00:52:32
as active of a role in this and he was
00:52:34
like, I'm not going down for this, so
00:52:36
I'll turn, you know, now.
00:52:39
>> Holy [ __ ] That's actually I did not see
00:52:42
that.
00:52:43
Meanwhile, Jimmy Smith,
00:52:45
>> this sounds like a It's like It's awful,
00:52:46
but like this sounds like a movie.
00:52:47
>> No, it literally does. It doesn't sound
00:52:50
real. Like, this does not sound like
00:52:52
something that actually happened.
00:52:53
>> In fact, it actually sounds kind of like
00:52:56
>> um so he's hoping So, meanwhile, Jimmy
00:52:58
Smith is like despondent over everything
00:53:01
that has happened that night, and he's
00:53:02
furious with himself for allowing Greg
00:53:05
Powell to drag him into murder. uh alone
00:53:08
in an unfamiliar city and unsure what to
00:53:10
do with himself, he started walking
00:53:12
towards the nearest town, which happens
00:53:14
to be Bakersfield. Now, if Greg Powell
00:53:16
hadn't been in such a big hurry to get
00:53:18
back to Los Angeles before Jimmy
00:53:20
Smith's, it's entirely possible he could
00:53:22
have gotten away with it,
00:53:23
>> but he got pulled over.
00:53:25
>> But he didn't think things through when
00:53:26
he stole the car near Bakersfield and
00:53:28
switched out the license plate on the
00:53:30
car in case it was reported stolen. By
00:53:33
the time he made it to Los Angeles, the
00:53:35
report with Powell and Smith's
00:53:36
descriptions and the car they were
00:53:38
driving had already gone out across the
00:53:40
state and nearly every cop in California
00:53:42
were looking for them. And meanwhile, by
00:53:45
that time, Greg Powell was already in a
00:53:47
different car. Had it not been for the
00:53:49
license plates that he took from the
00:53:52
stolen car that was already reported and
00:53:54
put it on the new stolen car, they would
00:53:57
have not noticed him at all. Why would
00:54:00
you even do that? Because in his idea,
00:54:02
like this is how so Greg Powell, he he
00:54:06
bails on the Ford
00:54:08
>> cuz obviously they're looking for the
00:54:09
Ford
00:54:09
>> and he steals a new car.
00:54:11
>> But what he doesn't know is that so and
00:54:14
and he steals the new car and he takes
00:54:17
>> the license plate from the Ford and puts
00:54:19
them on the new car. Why would you do
00:54:20
that?
00:54:21
>> He thinks they're going to report that
00:54:23
family is going to report their car
00:54:24
stolen with their plates on it.
00:54:27
>> Okay. So, he's putting his plates on it
00:54:29
thinking that no one knows what we did.
00:54:31
No one's reported us.
00:54:32
>> But it's like you're taking you're
00:54:34
taking the license plate from a cop car
00:54:36
that you stole.
00:54:37
>> Yeah. Well, it's from their car. They're
00:54:40
okay. But but still, it doesn't make any
00:54:41
[ __ ] sense.
00:54:42
>> No, it literally like you can see in
00:54:45
some sense in his dumb thinking that
00:54:48
he's like, "Oh, well, when this family
00:54:49
wakes up and their car's stolen, they're
00:54:51
going to report it and they're going to
00:54:53
be looking for their license
00:54:54
>> pl so I'm going to put this license
00:54:56
plate on." I guess I kind of got
00:54:57
>> and I'm going to be smarter about it.
00:54:59
But that's the problem. He was thinking
00:55:00
too quickly of like I got to get there
00:55:02
before Jimmy does cuz he's going to
00:55:03
report me and he wasn't thinking about
00:55:05
the fact that hey dummy they've probably
00:55:07
already figured out what you've done.
00:55:08
>> So what was he going to do? Was he going
00:55:10
to turn Jimmy in for it?
00:55:11
>> No, I think he was just going to get the
00:55:12
[ __ ] out of there. He was going he was
00:55:14
getting out of dodge. He was going to
00:55:16
pretend he was never there in LA and
00:55:18
>> if Jimmy goes down for it, Jimmy goes
00:55:20
down for it.
00:55:20
>> All right. All right.
00:55:21
>> Yeah, it's wild.
00:55:22
>> It is. So again, had it not been for the
00:55:26
license plates, the officers parked at
00:55:29
Mirage Station at this point, probably
00:55:32
wouldn't have noticed him at all. But
00:55:33
when the plate came up as belonging to
00:55:35
that of a different vehicle, officers
00:55:37
ODM and and Chris figured they'd better
00:55:39
check that out just in case. Cuz again,
00:55:41
this is Bakersfield. This car goes by,
00:55:44
they run it, different license plate.
00:55:46
They're like, "What the [ __ ] that
00:55:47
about?"
00:55:47
>> Yeah. Like that's weird.
00:55:48
>> It immediately put him on Suspicious.
00:55:50
Yeah. That's suspicious. Now, at first,
00:55:52
Greg tried to be like, you know, normal
00:55:55
and chill when he got pulled over. He
00:55:57
was like, "Have I been speeding
00:55:59
officer?" Like, "What?" Like, "What?"
00:56:01
Like, "Not did you steal a car, though?"
00:56:03
>> Yeah. Uh, he was doing the same
00:56:04
law-abiding citizen act that he had done
00:56:06
with Ian Campbell earlier that night,
00:56:08
but after a minute or two, he started to
00:56:10
get anxious and his tone changed a
00:56:12
little bit. Not only was Greg Powell
00:56:14
carrying an unlicensed gun, uh, by the
00:56:17
time they asked him to open the trunk of
00:56:19
the car, which took a few tries until
00:56:21
they found the right key because this is
00:56:23
not his car,
00:56:24
>> it was obvious that Greg Powell was not
00:56:26
the owner of the vehicle, and he was
00:56:28
taken into custody on suspicion of car
00:56:30
theft.
00:56:31
>> One of the officers said the following
00:56:33
day, he didn't try to resist. He seemed
00:56:34
pretty calm until we noticed a gun and a
00:56:36
flashlight that had said Headingure
00:56:39
LAPD. And then he started shaking all
00:56:42
over.
00:56:43
>> Oh man.
00:56:44
>> Now, Greg Powell was still in the
00:56:45
backseat of the patrol car when the
00:56:47
arresting officers realized he was one
00:56:49
of the two men they'd been looking for
00:56:51
in connection with the Campbell
00:56:52
shooting. When the news went out over
00:56:54
the radio, it drew several others to the
00:56:56
scene where Powell was still seated in
00:56:58
the police car. With the police car
00:57:00
surrounded by very angry officers,
00:57:03
Powell timidly asked that the windows be
00:57:05
locked up.
00:57:06
>> No.
00:57:07
>> Cuz now suddenly he's scared. Oh, that's
00:57:10
nice. How do you think Ian felt?
00:57:11
>> Yeah. And then he asked if they if they
00:57:14
thought he could quote get a break if he
00:57:16
talked.
00:57:17
>> No, I don't think shooting an officer in
00:57:19
the mouth, you'll ever get a break.
00:57:20
>> Chief Deputy Foot replied that he would
00:57:23
not be getting a break and then began
00:57:25
rereading him his rights.
00:57:26
>> Yeah, nice try.
00:57:27
>> Now, despite being told that he was
00:57:28
unlikely to get a deal, Powell started
00:57:30
talking anyway. Um, he told the police
00:57:32
that he and his partner Jimmy Young
00:57:34
Bloodood, which was a known alias used
00:57:37
by Smith,
00:57:37
>> not Jimmy Young Bloodood. not Jimmy
00:57:39
Young Bloodood had been on the lookout
00:57:41
for a place to rob when they were
00:57:43
stopped by the officers. Then he
00:57:45
proceeded to lay out the story in more
00:57:46
or less the same way that it actually
00:57:48
happened. Except in his version of
00:57:50
events, Jimmy was the aggressor and had
00:57:52
been the one that fired the shots that
00:57:54
killed Ian Campbell.
00:57:55
>> According to Powell, once Jimmy started
00:57:57
shooting, he got scared and ran off into
00:58:00
the fields and didn't stop running until
00:58:01
he made it to the farmhouse where he
00:58:03
found the car. He wouldn't have stolen
00:58:05
it, he insisted, but he was terrified
00:58:07
that Jimmy might be looking for him. and
00:58:08
he desperately wanted to get away.
00:58:10
>> Mhm.
00:58:23
Now, the next day, Jimmy was arrested at
00:58:25
a rooming house in Bakersfield after the
00:58:27
owner of the house heard the description
00:58:29
and turned him in.
00:58:30
>> Oh, so he didn't even go and turn Greg
00:58:32
in. Interesting. When they arrived at
00:58:34
the house to arrest him, Jimmy confirmed
00:58:36
that he was the man they were looking
00:58:38
for, and he made no attempt to resist.
00:58:40
He even pointed them in the direction of
00:58:42
Hettinger's gun, which was still in his
00:58:45
jacket on the bed.
00:58:46
>> Yikes.
00:58:47
>> He was not the least bit surprised that
00:58:49
Greg had pinned everything onto him. In
00:58:51
fact, he had expected exactly that from
00:58:53
the moment they split up.
00:58:55
So, as one would expect, this night has
00:59:00
been incredibly traumatic for Carl
00:59:03
Hedinger.
00:59:04
>> Yeah.
00:59:04
>> Who not only watched helplessly as his
00:59:06
partner was executed, but also he had
00:59:10
been hunted through onion fields and
00:59:12
fully expected to be killed.
00:59:14
>> Yeah. He like lived the most dangerous
00:59:15
game,
00:59:16
>> literally.
00:59:17
But that night turned out to be just the
00:59:19
beginning of Carl's terrible ordeal.
00:59:21
What? Because the kidnapping of a law
00:59:23
enforcement officer was such a rare
00:59:25
occurrence that like I had mentioned
00:59:27
earlier, at the time of this abduction,
00:59:30
there was no protocol for officers who
00:59:32
found themselves in these situations.
00:59:34
>> Yeah.
00:59:35
>> In fact, the very idea that one would
00:59:37
find themselves in that position seemed
00:59:39
inconceivable to police officers. The
00:59:41
LAPD, like many police departments then
00:59:44
and and now, was steeped in a tradition
00:59:47
of hyper masculinity.
00:59:49
>> The kind that regardless of the
00:59:50
circumstances would have seen surrender
00:59:52
as the highest form of cowardice.
00:59:54
>> Like, okay, so all of you saying that,
00:59:56
tell me what exactly what you would do
00:59:58
in this situation.
00:59:59
>> Precisely. As soon as he got back to Los
01:00:01
Angeles and had cleaned himself up from
01:00:03
the night before, Carl Hedinger sat down
01:00:05
to give his statement. He said, "I could
01:00:07
have shot the other suspect, but
01:00:09
Campbell would have been shot." He
01:00:11
explained that Ian had all but begged
01:00:12
him to hand over his service revolver
01:00:14
and how against his better judgment,
01:00:16
he'd done so in order to prevent any
01:00:18
further risk of anyone being killed.
01:00:20
That's the other thing. Even if he had
01:00:22
like shot uh the other guy, what was it?
01:00:25
Jimmy, who didn't have
01:00:26
>> Ian, he Ian still would have been shot
01:00:28
probably in the lower back, which also
01:00:31
could have killed him or paralyzed him.
01:00:33
>> Yeah. But to his captain and many of his
01:00:36
colleagues, none of that mattered. As
01:00:39
far as they were concerned, Carl was a
01:00:40
coward who caved.
01:00:41
>> That's just so irrational.
01:00:43
>> It's disgusting is what it is.
01:00:45
>> He They believed he was a coward who
01:00:47
caved in the face of danger and as a
01:00:49
result, his partner was dead.
01:00:50
>> Are you kidding me?
01:00:52
>> Carl's former partner told the author uh
01:00:54
Joseph Wim, "You can always do
01:00:57
something. I just don't see giving up
01:00:59
your gun to some crook under any
01:01:00
circumstances. And even after that, you
01:01:02
can do something."
01:01:04
>> Are you joking? Let's put you in the
01:01:06
same situation and see how you come out.
01:01:07
Yeah. Now, the author of The Onion
01:01:09
Field, Joseph Wamba, was an LAPD officer
01:01:13
at the time and remembered a heading's
01:01:15
return.
01:01:16
>> I didn't That was a twist I didn't see
01:01:17
coming.
01:01:18
>> He said everybody was talking about the
01:01:20
shooting. It was the first time a
01:01:21
policeman had been summarily executed
01:01:23
and it was quite shocking.
01:01:25
>> Unfortunately though, most of the talk
01:01:27
that was focused on Carl and was just
01:01:30
rife with speculation about what he
01:01:32
should have done or could have done in
01:01:34
that moment. It sounds like he just got
01:01:36
completely ostracized.
01:01:37
>> A more enlightened and compassionate
01:01:39
person would have recognized the
01:01:41
absolutely impossible situation that
01:01:43
Carl Hedinger had found himself in on
01:01:45
that night and wouldn't have judged him
01:01:46
for his decision that he'd made.
01:01:48
Especially since, like you just said,
01:01:50
none of them had ever been in that
01:01:52
situation and couldn't honestly say what
01:01:54
they would have done. No.
01:01:55
>> Cuz you haven't been in the situation.
01:01:56
>> No idea.
01:01:57
>> And again, there's no [ __ ] protocol.
01:01:59
>> There's no protocol. In 1963, it seemed
01:02:02
the LAPD was short on um enlightened
01:02:04
people and compassion,
01:02:06
>> evident by the number of people who very
01:02:08
much weren't shy about sharing how they
01:02:10
felt about Carl after Ian's death. While
01:02:12
Carl struggled in the immediate
01:02:14
aftermath of the shooting, Greg Powell
01:02:16
and Jimmy Lee Smith were both talking to
01:02:18
detectives, each telling their own
01:02:20
version of the story. In Powell's
01:02:22
version of events, he went so far as to
01:02:24
nearly portray himself as the third
01:02:26
victim. a simple stickup bandit who'd
01:02:29
been roped into a murderous scheme by a
01:02:31
bloodthirsty partner who he barely even
01:02:33
knew.
01:02:33
>> Okay.
01:02:34
>> Jimmy's version, on the other hand, was
01:02:36
more closely aligned with what Carl
01:02:38
Hedinger had said in his statement. The
01:02:40
contradictions between the two men's
01:02:42
stories was very obvious from the start,
01:02:44
but it became even more so when the
01:02:46
coroner's report showed that Ian
01:02:47
Campbell had been shot with two
01:02:49
different guns. Oh. Once in the mouth
01:02:52
with one gun and then four more times in
01:02:55
the chest with another. And Powell's the
01:02:57
only one that had two guns because he
01:02:59
had his own and Ian.
01:03:00
>> Well, and according to the coroner, the
01:03:02
first shot wouldn't have likely killed
01:03:04
him, assuming he could get medical
01:03:06
attention, but but shot through the
01:03:09
mouth.
01:03:09
>> Yeah, he was still like making noises.
01:03:11
>> Right. I remember you said that.
01:03:12
>> Um, but any one of the four additional
01:03:15
shots to the chest could have been fatal
01:03:16
within just a minute or two.
01:03:18
>> Now, with the release of the coroner's
01:03:20
report, Powell's story began to change
01:03:22
in different ways. Of course, Greg
01:03:24
Powell.
01:03:24
>> Uhhuh.
01:03:25
>> Particularly in the way he described his
01:03:27
own participation.
01:03:28
>> Yeah.
01:03:29
>> He told Sergeant PR Brooks, "We had guns
01:03:31
and we were hot. When the cops stopped
01:03:33
us, we had the guns ready. I jumped out
01:03:35
of the car and threw down on this cop
01:03:37
before they had a chance to take us."
01:03:39
While Pal did eventually stop trying to
01:03:41
portray himself as an unwilling
01:03:42
bystander to the events, he continued
01:03:45
pointing the finger at his partner,
01:03:47
identifying Jimmy Smith as the primary
01:03:49
shooter. that such a claim was even
01:03:51
remotely believable was due in part to
01:03:53
Carl Hedinger's faulty memory. In his
01:03:56
statement, Hedinger recalled seeing both
01:03:58
men holding guns, but admitted he was
01:04:00
too far away to see which of the two men
01:04:03
had stood over Campbell and fired the
01:04:05
four bullets into his chest. He did
01:04:07
however distinctly remember seeing
01:04:10
Powell shoot Campbell the first time.
01:04:12
>> Okay. Hedinger said pointing to when he
01:04:15
was taken to the scene after the
01:04:17
shooting, he pointed to the bloodstained
01:04:19
patch of road.
01:04:19
>> I can't believe they had to take him
01:04:20
back there.
01:04:21
>> Yeah. He said, "Right there is where
01:04:22
Powell fired on the officer." Finally,
01:04:25
after days of questioning, Greg Powell
01:04:27
admitted to investigators that it was he
01:04:30
who fired the initial shot at Campbell
01:04:31
that hit him in the mouth, but he
01:04:33
maintained that it was Jimmy Smith who
01:04:35
fired the fatal shots.
01:04:37
>> Okay. Now, given the sensational nature
01:04:40
of the case, stakes were high going into
01:04:42
Powell and Smith's trial, which began in
01:04:44
early July 1963.
01:04:46
In his opening statement, Deputy
01:04:48
District Attorney Marshall Schulman laid
01:04:50
out the facts of the case as they knew
01:04:52
them, explaining that to the jury that
01:04:55
because they believed they'd be
01:04:56
prosecuted under the Little Lindberg
01:04:58
law, Powell and Smith decided to murder
01:05:00
their captives rather than leaving
01:05:02
witnesses
01:05:04
over the course of
01:05:05
>> up the ante to murder because you could
01:05:06
also get caught for that and suffer the
01:05:08
same consequences like is literally
01:05:11
happening right now. They thought they
01:05:12
could get away with it and if they had
01:05:14
left if they had left witnesses, they
01:05:16
figured those witnesses are gonna
01:05:18
identify us and we're gonna get caught
01:05:19
and then we're gonna get the death
01:05:20
penalty.
01:05:20
>> No, totally. But
01:05:21
>> if we murder them, we're so smart that
01:05:24
we're going to get away with it and no
01:05:25
one's left to point the fingers at us.
01:05:27
>> Totally.
01:05:27
>> Yeah. Uh but over the course of the
01:05:29
trial, they intended to show through
01:05:31
evidence and testimony that both men had
01:05:33
acted with malice and could have at any
01:05:35
time reversed course.
01:05:37
>> For those reasons, they were seeking the
01:05:39
death penalty. Now, throughout the
01:05:41
trial, the jury heard testimony from all
01:05:43
key players, including Hettinger, Powell
01:05:45
Smith, and Emanuel McFaten, the the
01:05:48
farmer on the tractor. Um, while also
01:05:51
being shown reenactments of the crime
01:05:52
and seeing detailed photographs of
01:05:54
Campbell's injuries. During his
01:05:56
testimony, Jimmy Lee Smith denied having
01:05:58
any idea that Powell was going to pull a
01:06:00
gun on the two officers during the
01:06:01
traffic stop. And he said he did not
01:06:03
know that Powell planned to kill both
01:06:05
men once they reached their destination
01:06:07
in Bakersfield. When Pal was called to
01:06:10
the witness stand, he told a new version
01:06:12
of events. This time claiming the whole
01:06:14
thing had been an accident.
01:06:16
>> Oh, that's an interesting accident.
01:06:19
>> Yeah. He said, "I raised my gun to cover
01:06:21
the officers and the gun went off."
01:06:24
>> What?
01:06:26
>> Yeah.
01:06:26
>> What does that even mean?
01:06:27
>> That's not even a good lie.
01:06:28
>> Cover them.
01:06:29
>> Yeah.
01:06:30
>> After months of testimony, the jury
01:06:33
retired for deliberation in early
01:06:34
September. spent more than five days
01:06:37
pouring over the evidence. But when they
01:06:39
did emerge, they found both Gregory
01:06:41
Powell and Jimmy Lee Smith guilty of
01:06:45
first-degree murder.
01:06:46
>> I feel like you would have to find them
01:06:47
both. You can't just find one.
01:06:49
>> Yeah.
01:06:49
>> When asked whether he had anything to
01:06:51
say on his behalf, Greg Powell said, "I
01:06:53
admit responsibility to some extent
01:06:55
because I put the man in the position to
01:06:57
be killed." A week later, Powell and
01:06:59
Smith were back before the judge in
01:07:01
superior court and the jury voted
01:07:03
unanimously in favor of the death
01:07:05
penalty.
01:07:06
>> Yeah. I mean, that's you can it makes
01:07:09
sense like you killed a police officer.
01:07:11
>> Well, I can understand how at the time
01:07:14
that was the that was it.
01:07:15
>> Well, I mean it's 1960 something and you
01:07:18
killed a police officer.
01:07:18
>> That's what I mean at the time.
01:07:20
>> Huge.
01:07:21
>> That I would expect that to count or
01:07:23
what? That's huge.
01:07:24
>> Yeah. Now, in the wake of their
01:07:26
sentencing, Powell and Smith were sent
01:07:28
to San Quentin State Prison and placed
01:07:30
on death row. But that was hardly the
01:07:32
last time anyone was going to hear from
01:07:33
them. Oh.
01:07:34
>> In the few years that followed their
01:07:35
sentencing, Greg Powell made multiple
01:07:37
attempts to escape from San Quentin.
01:07:39
Stop it.
01:07:40
>> Including one incident in which he tried
01:07:41
to smuggle guns into the prison.
01:07:44
>> In 1972, they were among several
01:07:46
California inmates whose death sentences
01:07:48
were commuted to life in prison after
01:07:50
the death penalty was deemed
01:07:51
unconstitutional.
01:07:53
In the decades after that, Powell and
01:07:55
Smith's names would occasionally appear
01:07:57
in the press, usually when parole came
01:07:59
up, appeals,
01:08:00
>> the idea of parole. In 1982, Smith, who
01:08:03
had been a well- behaved and mostly
01:08:05
productive inmate, Jimmy Smith, was
01:08:07
granted parole.
01:08:08
>> Wow.
01:08:09
>> However, just a few months later, after
01:08:11
failing a drug test, he was returned to
01:08:13
prison to serve six more months. In the
01:08:16
years after that, Jimmy Lee Smith would
01:08:17
cycle in and out of prison again on
01:08:19
various charges, including one, and this
01:08:23
will this will make you think, in which
01:08:25
he kidnapped a woman and held her
01:08:27
captive for several days.
01:08:28
>> The [ __ ]
01:08:29
>> So that innocent act he was playing of
01:08:31
like, I would have never done that.
01:08:33
Really?
01:08:33
>> You held a woman captive.
01:08:35
>> But you know what? He died on April 6th,
01:08:38
2007 from a heart attack.
01:08:39
>> Damn.
01:08:40
>> Bye. Greg Powell also came up for parole
01:08:42
in the summer of 1982. However, the
01:08:45
parole board reconsidered their plan to
01:08:47
release him after they Yeah. They said
01:08:49
no. No. After they received a petition
01:08:51
signed with more than 30,000 California
01:08:54
residents objecting to his release,
01:08:56
>> he went on to appeal the decision, but
01:08:58
was ultimately unsuccessful,
01:09:00
>> as were his future bids for parole.
01:09:02
>> I think we got 30,000 signatures one
01:09:04
time. So,
01:09:06
>> including a request for compassionate
01:09:08
release in 2011 when he was diagnosed
01:09:11
with terminal prostate cancer. He died
01:09:13
in the state prison uh on August 12th,
01:09:16
2012.
01:09:17
>> Wow.
01:09:18
>> Now, in the aftermath long, that's a
01:09:20
long prison stint.
01:09:22
>> Now, in the aftermath of all this, Carl
01:09:24
Hedinger tried to return to life as
01:09:27
usual.
01:09:28
>> How do you
01:09:28
>> including trying to return to his job at
01:09:30
the LAPD, but sadly, he would spend the
01:09:33
rest of his life dealing with the
01:09:35
consequences and trauma that he endured
01:09:37
that night. His return to work at the
01:09:38
department was met with protests and
01:09:40
ridicule by his fellow officers. such
01:09:43
[ __ ]
01:09:43
>> They all blamed him for Campbell's
01:09:45
death, not the guy who killed himself.
01:09:47
>> Um, his feelings of guilt and shame were
01:09:49
further compounded when he was forced by
01:09:51
his commanding officer to give a public
01:09:53
apology for his actions.
01:09:57
>> Eventually,
01:09:58
>> I don't even know what to say about
01:09:59
that. Like, come on.
01:10:01
>> Eventually, Carl was transferred to
01:10:03
various different departments before
01:10:04
being let go from the force entirely
01:10:06
after he was arrested for shoplifting.
01:10:09
>> Oh, that's really sad. In the years
01:10:10
after his firing, Carl became active in
01:10:13
local politics and was appointed to the
01:10:15
Kern County Board of Supervisors where
01:10:17
he served from 87 to 93.
01:10:19
>> Wow.
01:10:20
>> Despite his political successes, he
01:10:22
really continued to struggle
01:10:23
psychologically and suffered PTSD.
01:10:26
>> Yeah, of course.
01:10:27
>> Which he often coped with by drinking
01:10:28
heavily.
01:10:29
>> On May 4th, 1994, Carl Hedinger died in
01:10:32
Bakersfield from liver failure. And in
01:10:35
Bakersfield.
01:10:35
>> Yeah, that's horrible. From the moment
01:10:37
the news broke about heading and
01:10:39
Campbell, everyone seemed to have an
01:10:41
opinion on what Carl should or shouldn't
01:10:44
have done. And in the world of law
01:10:46
enforcement, the case became a
01:10:48
motivating factor in certain policy
01:10:49
changes, including the wide circulation
01:10:51
of a memo that stated in no uncertain
01:10:54
terms that officers were never to
01:10:56
relinquish their weapons, which is a
01:10:59
good protocol to have. But when the
01:11:01
protocol is not in place, you're leaving
01:11:03
it up to somebody in that moment of life
01:11:06
and death to try to figure out
01:11:09
>> and at least if the protocol is there,
01:11:11
you know it's there.
01:11:12
>> You know it's there and it's it's a good
01:11:14
one to have, but still the same outcome
01:11:16
might have might have happened. You know
01:11:18
what I mean? Like it's like I said
01:11:20
earlier,
01:11:21
>> he could have been shot in the back and
01:11:23
killed or paralyzed. Like
01:11:24
>> Well, and it's just like having the
01:11:26
protocol at the very least allows him to
01:11:28
sit there and say,
01:11:29
>> "I can't." And also since Carla was such
01:11:32
a right and wrong, he just
01:11:34
>> he would have been like, "Well, that's
01:11:35
the protocol. I'm not giving this up."
01:11:36
And it would have led him to only
01:11:38
consider that path, which
01:11:40
>> might have like I don't know, narrowed
01:11:43
what could happen there.
01:11:44
>> Yeah.
01:11:45
>> But like you said, it doesn't take away
01:11:47
the fact that these people have guns too
01:11:49
and now everyone has a gun.
01:11:52
>> It's just like I anything could have
01:11:55
happened. Would could the same exact
01:11:56
outcome have happened? Maybe, maybe not.
01:11:59
Because if you you're not getting in the
01:12:01
car likely,
01:12:02
>> but it's like
01:12:03
>> you can't sit here and everyone would
01:12:06
have been fine here or that Ian would
01:12:08
have lived no matter what. Of course,
01:12:10
you want that to be the outcome as Carl
01:12:12
did. That's what kills me. I'm like,
01:12:14
you're all treating him like this. The
01:12:16
last thing he wanted was for that to
01:12:18
happen,
01:12:18
>> right?
01:12:19
>> You're punishing him for being human.
01:12:22
>> It's like, this isn't his fault. It's
01:12:24
the murderers who did it.
01:12:25
>> It's like the definition of toxic
01:12:27
masculinity.
01:12:28
>> Yeah. just gross behavior to treat him
01:12:29
like that, like when he's going through
01:12:31
it as well. Now, 10 years after the
01:12:34
murder, the story was in the headlines
01:12:35
again when Joseph WMA published his
01:12:38
non-fiction account of the event, The
01:12:40
Onion Field. This book was a big
01:12:42
success, like huge, and was adapted into
01:12:45
a popular feature film, both of which
01:12:48
did little to improve the crushing
01:12:50
weight of guilt and shame Carl Hedinger
01:12:52
experienced every day for the rest of
01:12:53
his life.
01:12:54
>> Yeah. Many years later though, in an
01:12:56
interview with the Washington Post,
01:12:59
Wamba expressed a deep sense of regret
01:13:02
for how he presented the story and the
01:13:04
impact it had on Carl and his family.
01:13:07
>> Oh, he said Carl minded terribly, but I
01:13:10
just exploited him. I used money as my
01:13:13
weapon to get the story. I offered him
01:13:16
money that for the sake of his family he
01:13:18
couldn't refuse. I acted that way
01:13:20
because I thought the story was more
01:13:22
important than Carl Hedinger. more
01:13:24
important than me. That it was a story
01:13:26
so important that I would have done
01:13:27
almost anything to get it written.
01:13:29
>> Wow, that's dark.
01:13:32
>> That's what I mean when I say no one won
01:13:35
here.
01:13:35
>> Yeah. Like everyone like you got this
01:13:39
story out there but at the cost of your
01:13:40
own personal dignity.
01:13:42
>> Like it's just
01:13:44
>> what a that's a dirty end.
01:13:47
>> Yeah.
01:13:47
>> Like that's just that's so yucky.
01:13:49
>> That's so bleak.
01:13:51
And then later to
01:13:53
>> to realize that you sort of ruined
01:13:54
someone's life
01:13:56
>> to then finally come to that conclusion
01:13:59
after it's already been done and nothing
01:14:02
can be fixed. It's like
01:14:03
>> Yeah.
01:14:04
>> Woof. Like that is just really sad.
01:14:08
>> Yeah.
01:14:09
>> And Carl seemed like such a good guy
01:14:11
that just like
01:14:12
>> he did
01:14:13
>> got put in a [ __ ] situation that had no
01:14:16
protocol. He had never been trained for
01:14:18
this. And also like there should have
01:14:21
been a [ __ ] protocol for that from
01:14:24
the jump. That's one thing that we
01:14:25
didn't even talk about. Like
01:14:27
>> it kind of makes sense to have a
01:14:29
protocol for that. Even though it had
01:14:31
never happened that no officer had been
01:14:34
>> kidnapped like that. That's the culture
01:14:36
of that type of work. Especially back
01:14:39
then it was very much like a hyper
01:14:41
masculine like well ne we'd never be
01:14:44
abducted. We're we're too strong for
01:14:46
that. And it's like just plan for
01:14:48
everything, man. And if you never use
01:14:50
it, then who gives a [ __ ] I always at
01:14:52
least it's there.
01:14:53
>> Overreact more than underreact. Over
01:14:55
[ __ ] react. If you never use it, you
01:14:57
never use it. At least you have it.
01:14:58
>> Plan for the worst, expect the best.
01:14:59
>> Exactly. Obviously now it feels like
01:15:02
that's more like
01:15:04
>> the idea of like let's just plan for the
01:15:06
worst [ __ ] Even though we're hoping
01:15:07
that never happens. But again, if a
01:15:10
protocol had been in place, Carl would
01:15:12
have had a blueprint to go off of and it
01:15:14
would have narrowed his thinking a
01:15:16
little bit. When you are sitting there
01:15:18
in a situation like that where there's
01:15:20
endless possibilities and endless paths
01:15:23
to take
01:15:24
>> and your partner is of course you're not
01:15:26
which I can't believe and Ian
01:15:28
>> I'm going to get shot just hand your gun
01:15:29
over. Poor Ian was put through all of
01:15:32
this [ __ ] and now he's and I know for a
01:15:35
fact that Ian would not want everybody
01:15:38
to be sitting here blaming his friend
01:15:41
who he begged to give them his weapon.
01:15:43
He's sitting there being like I told
01:15:45
them to do it.
01:15:46
>> Yeah.
01:15:46
>> I thought I would like
01:15:47
>> and none of us expected this.
01:15:49
>> It just makes me I'm like come on people
01:15:51
just got to be stop being so shitty to
01:15:53
each other.
01:15:54
>> That's a goddamn story. I'm glad policy
01:15:58
changed because of it and that like
01:15:59
there's more
01:16:01
>> for this kind of situation so nobody is
01:16:04
put in a situation where they have no
01:16:06
guidelines to go off of
01:16:08
>> because that's such a horrible position
01:16:10
to be in. And I hate when people sit
01:16:12
there
01:16:13
>> that's why like when we'll say like
01:16:15
we'll we'll say a situation we'll be
01:16:17
like well if I was there like I feel
01:16:18
like I would have done this always back
01:16:20
>> I always try to sit there and go but
01:16:21
I've never been in that situation so I
01:16:22
don't [ __ ] know. I'm sitting here
01:16:23
saying it but like who the [ __ ] am I? I
01:16:25
don't know. I have no [ __ ] clue what
01:16:27
I would have done in that situation.
01:16:29
>> I think we both had the experience of
01:16:30
being in situations we didn't expect
01:16:32
ourselves to be in and being like, "Oh,
01:16:34
[ __ ] I thought I would have done that,
01:16:35
but I did this."
01:16:36
>> You know, 100%.
01:16:38
>> And that's the thing, that's what we
01:16:39
need to be a little more cognizant of as
01:16:42
humans here
01:16:43
>> because everybody's real quick to give
01:16:45
their opinion about what they would do
01:16:47
or what somebody should do. And it's
01:16:49
like
01:16:50
>> everybody's just so holier than that.
01:16:51
>> Maybe just like let people have their
01:16:52
own experience and deal with the
01:16:54
aftermath of it.
01:16:55
>> Yeah.
01:16:56
>> It's just I feel horrible for Ian
01:16:58
Campbell and his family. Like he's a
01:17:00
father.
01:17:01
>> I'm sure that added to it too. It's like
01:17:03
he left these two children behind and
01:17:05
Carl didn't have any children at that
01:17:06
time and I'm sure people were like
01:17:08
>> oh you have nothing to come back to, you
01:17:10
know.
01:17:11
>> Yeah. which it's like and I feel
01:17:13
compounded wife and family Ian
01:17:14
Campbell's
01:17:15
>> because it's like they both seemed like
01:17:17
such good dudes.
01:17:19
>> Yeah.
01:17:20
>> And like they somehow were put together.
01:17:22
They would have been probably an amazing
01:17:24
pair.
01:17:26
>> I think they would have like from the
01:17:27
sounds of it they had all the makings of
01:17:29
great detectives and like would have
01:17:31
done really well together.
01:17:32
>> Well, just what a shitty event this was
01:17:35
too that
01:17:35
>> a freak event
01:17:36
>> they just put like just a regular
01:17:39
traffic stop. And it did not need to go
01:17:42
that way. Yeah. Like look what happened.
01:17:46
You were trying to get out. Greg Powell
01:17:48
and Jimmy Lee Smith didn't want to get
01:17:50
in trouble for a gun, an unlicensed gun,
01:17:54
>> and they didn't want to go back to
01:17:55
prison. They didn't want to go back to
01:17:56
jail, which they've been in and out of
01:17:57
forever. Look what happened. You got put
01:17:59
on death row, you idiots. Like that's
01:18:01
Did it was that worth it?
01:18:04
And in the process, you took away a
01:18:06
father and and husband away from
01:18:08
>> which it sounds like Powell really
01:18:10
didn't give a [ __ ] about that. It almost
01:18:12
seemed like he was like lethal to do
01:18:13
that.
01:18:14
>> Yeah.
01:18:15
>> Just humanity is the worst.
01:18:17
>> Just yucky, yucky people. And I feel
01:18:20
awful for Carl Hedinger and his family.
01:18:22
And I feel awful for
01:18:24
>> Ian Campbell and his family. I'm just
01:18:26
really sad.
01:18:27
>> Yeah. But Yeah. So I don't really know
01:18:31
how to transition out of that one.
01:18:34
gets harder and harder every time we
01:18:35
tell these stories.
01:18:36
>> It does. It really does.
01:18:37
>> But we hope you keep listening.
01:18:39
>> We do. And we hope you
01:18:40
>> keep it weird.
01:18:43
>> But that's so weird that you judge
01:18:44
others for a situation that you yourself
01:18:46
have never been in.
01:18:48
>> Yeah. Don't keep it that weird. That's
01:18:50
not even weird. That's just gross. Don't
01:18:52
be gross.
01:18:52
>> Icky gross. Yuck.
01:18:57
>> Bye.