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hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and I'm saruti and I'm oh and this is muggled but it's super duper special
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because we have our friends from red-handed here today [Music] foreign [Music] well obviously in Boston yeah um about
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it though didn't you yeah I really did like there's something out because we're on tour at the moment and the amount of
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times I've like gone out on stage and how I'll start the show is but like insert City what's happening sometimes
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is it Dallas or is it from this morning are you ready to be done I would do this for the rest of my life
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like I'm so happily yeah I love the road through not so much getting my comfy pants I'm like look
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we've been on the road for 27 days oh my God and I'm like that's great love meeting everybody excellent cities
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having the best time but I'm also like I'd quite like to go back to my bed back to my shower and cook myself a meal in
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my own kitchen oh it is not delivered to me in some sort of plastic carton yeah in my bedroom
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I was gonna say we both are oh my god do you want to hear the biggest tragedy in
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the world so before the show yesterday I ordered my ordered myself a very delicious sandwich and it was so
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delicious that I was like I'm actually too stressed to enjoy this right now so I only ate a bit of it and I was like
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I'm gonna take it back to the hotel and I'm gonna eat it later you forgot it I left it at the time
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so I'm running on Cheez-Its right now oh that's terrible well Mikey's on his way
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with a delicious spread four pieces of yogurt covered raisins or individual yogurt cupboards I had
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like three bites of my kids left over like waffle that she had already taken like 100 bites of but I just quickly was
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like before I left so that's what I'm running on I'm not gonna tell you guys what I had for breakfast because I had
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an awesome breakfast so moving on now we're goblins right now and now she's like I don't know
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I literally did you did you really did she had avocado toast I had a lot of garlic and onion on it I'm gonna throw
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you under the bus and I made a little fruit salad yeah yogurt covered raisins anyone
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Rumble in the middle of this it is one of any of our stomachs but we are actually we're doing a really
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fun collab because I think we're like plan on the fact that I don't know if you guys noticed
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but they're not from here it's really hard to tell they have awesome accents but I can
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listen to literally all day that's why I love your podcast for everything but your voices are so soothing oh thank you
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no one back home cares so it's always fun to come here see and we always get the like you of Boston
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accents which are not like the they're not good accents they're not beautiful yeah
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you have some of the worst Accents in this country so I don't think that's true I like the Boston accent yesterday
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we were at the venue and the lovely old security guard he like walked me back to
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the hotel oh yeah yeah they walked outside [Laughter] oh yeah [Laughter] [Laughter]
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but we figured what we would do is we're kind of we're gonna do like a case I've
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picked a really old case this is always the most fun I feel like I just I do we're excited right you can get fun with
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these and this is a super like it has a lot of American yeah okay perfect I love American nonsense
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just nonsense and the thing in itself so we're going to be talking about Lavinia
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Fisher in the Six Mile House we've never heard of it are you good there before this I do this the cool thing about this
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is it's got It's very American in and of itself because it's kind of exaggerated
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to the point of shenanigans feel like is solidly American in and of itself just exaggerated to Shenanigans it sure is so
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the actual so she's known as America's first serial killer first uh female serial killer oh okay but she's not at
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all oh not even a little spoiler she might not even be a murderer please have my favorite type of cases right right so
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this is like it has urban legend in it and has a lot of like the the South like before Civil War South in it which is
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least so there's that and it's got Highwaymen in it oh cooling robbery I feel like it
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really fits the bill here so this takes place in Charleston South Carolina which
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now is like beautiful and is on Southern Charm I want to go there so badly right
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I want to go there for my batch real great but it's a complicated tale and this definitely begs the question is
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this really the story story of America's first female serial killer no or is this
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I true series of events exaggerated over time into a living urban legend of some
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sort yes I'll take either the idea of it it's probably exaggerated over time but
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certain aspects are true and they're interesting because she was a criminal there was that so the story of Lavinia
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Fisher unfolds against the backdrop of the pre-civil War era so it's 1815 to 1861-ish so like a little bit ago again
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in Charleston South Carolina it was during a time of huge economic and social upheaval at this moment
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Charleston was among the wealthiest cities of the British colonies and was a hub of imports and exports and
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especially in the wake of the American Revolution so because of this it became one of the main entry points for several
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several different trades but also for enslaved people being forcibly brought into our country and because it was
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close to the ocean it became a base of operations for merchants in tobacco Industries cotton industry all the huge
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Industries at the time so now at this time and this is all to tell you why this all occurred by the 1810s the
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prosperity of Charleston was not as solid as it once was it had happened to the other other cities around too that
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the revolution in the War of 1812 had taken a serious Financial toll on them I don't know why
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me hold on Siri just popped up and she was like I don't know what to tell you could you please
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okay okay sorry sorry just took this one all right so this happened in Charleston
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and the city's leaders worried about a total economic collapse that it was going to be imminent at this time
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because of this they feared the city would be quote reduced to a city of Beggars vagrants thieves and Cutthroats
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wow right so Paris and they were thinking pirates pirates are just gonna infiltrate right right
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into these ports and Pirates were still a thing but they weren't the pirates that were probably picturing like all
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high seas adventures and like showing jokes like that's what I picture as a pirate Jack Sparrow they were like scary
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as [ __ ] like like Captain Phillips yeah like scary and in the early 19th century
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Merchant ships definitely still were fearing attacks from Pirates Who now were not sailing under the Jolly Roger
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Skull and Bones flag they were sailing under flags of other countries to try to get through okay to make matters worse
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in 1819 Charleston was experiencing a big outbreak of yellow fever and that was requiring every ship that was coming
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into the city to be quarantined and inspected before even being allowed to dock at the Port so this was causing
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tons of delays tons of complications for merchants people being sent away and with the city's Port dealing with all of
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these crazy challenges and delays and the merchants getting angry the wagon trade remained the most viable way of
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getting Goods anywhere you needed to go in the South the good old Oregon Trail the Oregon Trail which the actual game
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of the Oregon Trail I don't know if you guys know it I've heard it where everyone dies of dysentery yes exactly
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and you can like buy oxen so it's some sort of really old and timely Wild West Monopoly yeah pretty
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much it's a computer game and it was like the earliest of all computer games so it's like that so it's not a board
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game screen and it's we used to play it when we were little and I'm not really sure why like we thought it was such a
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cool game to be like we didn't have our freaking trouble yeah if it makes you feel better guys
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um when I was a child instead of playing the Oregon Trail I was playing planetary
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taxi what is that which is an x-ray question an excellent game I think is what that is
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um it was like one of those really old school PC games probably a bit similar to what you're describing but you were a
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taxi driver in space Oh that's epic that's way better than Oregon Trail yeah and it gets better so people get in to
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the bank your potential customers and they would be like oh I always get beaten by Farmer John in the fattest pig
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of the Year contest take me to the planet where my pig will weigh the most and then you had to figure out which
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planet had the greatest gravitational pull and then take him there and if you got it right he tipped you see you were
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learning things they were trying to keep that you know pioneering American Spirit Alive and
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Well in the Next Generation that is true I get it I get it fixed Wagon Wheels and
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[ __ ] yeah you went to a general store you were like I would like some grain see
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yeah you call it those old traditions dysentery and that was always the thing if you didn't die of dysentery then you
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would go to the river and you were like well let's all take our lives in our hands and every once in a while get
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across the river and you were like oh yeah we got yelled out by the actual game oh my god do you guys get yelled
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out for mispronouncing places can you imagine that I mean no I did not imagine that yeah so what is it Oregon it's it's
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Oregon Oregon Oregon but I grew up calling it Oregon Trail to Oregon as Oregon when we were little
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I think it's a regional dialect something I think about all the time difference between
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mispronouncing and Regional dialogue and saying something in your own accent exactly so like Americans will call me
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Hannah right like that's not my name my name's Hannah how is it meant to be said in the Middle
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Eastern pronunciation [Laughter] but this is the point like I don't get like just just have a night that's fine
00:12:41
at this point I've just changed my name to Susie Cuban on which is my American Alias by the way
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but when she gets randomly selected in every Airport oh no I love it well that's like
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Massachusetts specifically has the most gnarly names for places oh yeah which we
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grew up just thinking that was normal but when people try to say the names they're like what is like that I can't
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say the name of this state it is one of the ongoing jokes on red-handed yeah say
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it Massachusetts I can now see it phonetically as it was filled out by all of our listeners and I
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can visually see it so I say it that way you're like hitting each point but I love the problem with most of the cities
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around here is like phonetically they make brilliant my favorite tweet will always
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be what's the hardest thing you've ever had to tell anybody and people were like
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oh you know and I had to call my sister and tell her that our father had passed away and somebody just wrote
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Worcestershire sauce yep that's been a heart to beat on our show was this yourself yeah because
00:14:01
that's how you say it that's how you say it how else would what is that water water
00:14:10
that's another very American thing we just yell at each other about like saying things for no reason like we're
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just we just can't let each other say things we've been on the receiving end of that all right it's definitely a
00:14:21
thing anytime you put your voice anywhere people are bound to just scream at you yeah you know it seems like it's
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all good let's do something yeah let's keep going let's go yeah you know so let's go back to the 1800s which
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was such a fun time get dysentery yeah get robbed by a Highwayman or a woman you need a pirate yeah meet up
00:14:43
that sounds kind of cool yeah you know if you get out to tell the tale you could like you could yo ho Yoho with
00:14:49
them absolutely you know yeah absolutely that's just what you do and I do you do so a pirate's life for you
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stick a lime in it oh you know so we're we're in on the wagon trade now because that's the only way that we can
00:15:09
get anywhere otherwise everything sucks you're gonna get robbed by a pirate you're gonna get delayed at Port you
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know everything's gonna suck but even though it was now keeping Charleston's economy afloat it wasn't
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nearly as efficient as ships were for one horses um they get tired and they need to sleep
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they drown in a river if you try to forge it too early I guess I don't even know what the reasoning for drowning in
00:15:37
the River in Oregon Trail was it was just like I think just because it was just a crap shoot yeah you don't know
00:15:42
how to swim yeah yeah right I'm like who's getting swimming lessons you know oh if you were in the river you
00:15:48
were gone yeah Rapids and you were like oh well there that goes but yeah that's what happened so so
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horses need to rest they need to eat and while some traveling Merchants had no problem sleeping in their wagon and they
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could do that without getting robbed or murdered uh the journey was often hundreds of miles and the driver not to
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mention any occupants that they had with them would need to find some kind of shelter at various points along the
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Route if especially for storms weather all that good stuff this gave rise to quote stage taverns or Inns known just
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as houses ah like a public house exactly exactly and those were along the outskirts of
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major cities where Travelers could stop for a night rest water their horses water themselves you know AKA shower
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there you go but like the shipping industry the wagon and Stage trade came with a ton of fears not about Pirates
00:16:45
anymore but now about being robbed or having an entire wagon or coach be stolen right out from under you
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so in the early Decades of the 19th century Charleston South Carolina was not so different from the other colonies
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around it was always walking a line between the pre-revolution Wilderness of the past and the industrial socially
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complicated society that was going to be on its way in the latter half of the 19th century but it was ruled by
00:17:11
Economic Opportunity mixed with intense fear of any kind of change so things weren't great it was very unstable at
00:17:21
that moment so let's get to the legend or urban legend of Lavinia Fisher so Lavinia and John Fisher they were
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married and had lived much of their lives in or around Charleston when they were in their mid to late 20s the couple
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operated an inn that was referred to as the Six Mile House along with what was known it was on Meetinghouse Road so the
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name Six Mile House was basically the mile marker that it was all ever it would indicate to Travelers how far you
00:17:50
are from the city nice so other ends had names like Five Mile House four miles I would want to be like one mile
00:18:03
like we're number one that's what I would want to do six is like but these houses offered Travelers and Merchants a
00:18:10
place to stop and rest get food water and overnight stay and if they TR and as they traveled in Charleston to sell
00:18:16
their goods or as they traveled out that's where they would stop along this way so Travelers leaving the city would
00:18:22
be as John ralphio and Parks and Recreation would say flush with cash I had to you can never you can't let
00:18:35
that but they this made them very easy prey for Highwaymen or in this case Highway
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women so the legend has it that Lavinia would lure and guess with her seductive Wiles I mean her name's Lavinia she must
00:18:50
be kind of hot it is a hot girl name right Lavinia I'm like you have to be good looking you did I feel like she was
00:18:57
yeah hopefully not only would she lure them in with her womanly wiles but then she would double down and cook them a
00:19:04
home-cooked meal to any man's heart you know I think she would sedate them with warm tea oh my God I mean I kind of
00:19:11
fancy there's always a catch yeah no one's a 10 out of 10. yeah you can't yeah she still sounds great to be honest but
00:19:27
she's a 10 but she will poison you take it or leave it boys now some say once their victim was unconscious or
00:19:35
asleep John would sneak into the room he would Rob them and he would murder them
00:19:40
but then it said that he quote butchered them and disposed of their bodies in their Cellar oh very bloody Benders
00:19:47
thank you I bring them up you're welcome in the next paragraph okay but there are
00:19:52
some variations in this story though another slight variation is that once they were definitely unconscious Lavinia
00:19:59
would open a trap door beneath the victim and they would drop into the basement which I like better
00:20:04
yes exactly yes hello and that's where they would be ultimately murdered and in some versions they even say that beneath
00:20:12
that trapdoor Lavinia herself which I'm like whoa Levidia had positioned spikes in the bottom of a pit which impaled the
00:20:21
victims as they landed no she should Miss Trunchbull the ultimate chunky yeah yeah and I
00:20:29
already dead when they get spiked yeah so it's just for the fun of it just so she can like it's very bloody Benders
00:20:35
because we're gonna get into them and they did do that [ __ ] just for the fun of it yeah so I wonder if that I got
00:20:40
tainted like a little bit of bloody vendors got mixed in with this story we do that a lot uh but John and Lavinia
00:20:47
were said to have quote a great number of skeletons found in the cellar of Six Mile House later it was said that they
00:20:53
had a Cellar full of human bones so it's getting bigger bigger as we go it's like
00:20:59
maybe one and then it's like a whole last Cellar I love it it starts vague it just gets bigger it's like maybe she
00:21:05
just like a great many people and it's like no she was impaling them on spice under her kitchen
00:21:12
it's just someone telling a story in one of those houses I'm not getting the reaction I need nobody cares there was
00:21:19
spikes listen up right under our feet like that I would have done that and she was a stone cold
00:21:25
hot tea her name's Lavinia she's gonna cook you dinner so you choose whether you're coming in but like
00:21:34
we just mentioned about a bunch of times it is very reminiscent of the bloody Benders they were we actually covered
00:21:39
the bloody bunny vendors long time I'm actually going to redo that one yeah that's one of those that I remember
00:21:45
doing in our living room so that was an early one and we have a few of those yeah we know the feeling well yeah I
00:21:51
just end up being like gonna take that one back can you do that better because yeah
00:21:56
it's a gnarly story and I think we could definitely I think it was only like an hour long episode maybe that we did on
00:22:03
it yeah and I think this could be like several episodes of the bodybenders now I'm like what was I doing bodybuilders
00:22:09
take two yeah they were an American family of murderers like an actual family wow just straight up serial
00:22:14
killers like kids and all yeah and it's real and it's real I feel what is this but we've never covered it but it kind
00:22:21
of reminds me of like there's lots of fake stories like that in the UK and there's the Sony Bean clan that sounds
00:22:28
familiar yeah Scotland they were kind of the inspiration for like The Hills Have
00:22:32
Eyes and so they were like meant to be um in Scotland this family of like cannibalistic um incestuous people
00:22:41
living in these caves like attacking people that walk past them and cannibalizing them the kids were there
00:22:46
all sorts of grizzly stuff if you look it up it is dark and then you realize actually it was just um anti-scottish
00:22:52
English propaganda yeah yes oh no it's just these Scottish people living in caves like they're
00:22:58
disgusting over there and they're like they are having sex with each other and they will eat you
00:23:04
absolutely true further into it avoid the caves no we definitely have a few of those
00:23:12
like that you know are fake that are like this whole family of cannibals no but the bloody Benders that's for me
00:23:19
they really did it and it was in the early 1870s and they had it was in Kansas and they had which like it kind
00:23:26
of fits like at that time in Kansas well yeah like at that time like Frontier family we're gonna murder people
00:23:33
everyone was probably mad there in 1870. but they had like a bed and breakfast quotations that they would lure people
00:23:42
into and then brutally murder them and they had a trapdoor that led into their Cellar and they would position the
00:23:49
victims sitting over the trap door and then I think it was like it it really is reminiscent of it because the wife would
00:23:56
like kind of distract whoever the victim was yeah and then the husband or one of
00:24:01
the sons would come up behind them slit their throat or hit them on the head with a hammer and then boom they would
00:24:08
go on her into that trapdoor wow often they would be robbed of whatever they had on them that was
00:24:14
usually because they would lure like wealthy people in that were like traveling through but sometimes they
00:24:19
would just do it for the thrill of it I wow like they would not get a wealthy person they were like well we're just
00:24:24
gonna look we're just bored yeah what else is there to do in Kansas Dusty I was literally thinking that
00:24:31
there's tornadoes yeah Kansas yeah was that the Dust Bowl why not we're educated it's Ebola does I
00:24:40
know but they were real they were able to confirm all the deaths they were able like people who did escape the bloody
00:24:47
vendors with their lives were able to be like oh yeah they tried to hit me in the
00:24:50
head with a hammer and I saw a trap door like they were able to be like yeah that's literally nice so this definitely
00:24:56
has a little bit of that infused in it and since it's around the 1800s it's like I think maybe it kind of layered on
00:25:02
top of each other and because Lavinia is a woman and there was a woman in the bloody vendors I think they were like
00:25:09
let's have another one can't just have one but in early tellings of this story John and Lavinia
00:25:17
Fisher are described as quote pleasing in appearance okay you've got to be you know John and Lavinia yeah they I felt
00:25:25
like they were in it couple for sure yeah they are and they knew how to give the weary traveler such a welcome as
00:25:31
made him feel the Inn was more like a home than a public Resort no is it the trap door
00:25:37
I think it was the spikes except the Ambiance of it all it was the lovely rug over the extractor on the
00:25:46
spikes but the Fishers weren't only praised for their Resort and their loveliness but also for their food which
00:25:54
was apparently described as excellent fare for men and beasts wow yeah I always want to hear about my
00:26:04
cooking whenever my husband's like this is delicious I'm like what a beast can we get a beef
00:26:12
this isn't enough but later however the entire area around Six Mile House is described as a Haven for quote gangs of
00:26:21
white Desperados who occupied certain houses and infested the roads leading to the city
00:26:28
white Desperado I know but it is said that Travelers pass these houses with fear and
00:26:36
trembling oh no because it was just bad guys I hate that um and they more the more dreaded than
00:26:41
any of the other of these haunts was known as Six Mile House occupied by John Fisher and Lavinia so the legend tells
00:26:50
listeners that the robberies and missing Travelers went on for more than a year until finally the bandits were located
00:26:56
in the neighborhood of five and six mile houses then traced to the houses themselves and the situation came to
00:27:02
head when a young man hatless and coatless oh no whoa excuse me how you meant to tell if he's a good guy or bad
00:27:10
guys if you are hat listen and coatless exactly it's quite hot in Charleston though isn't it no it is wicked yeah
00:27:18
almost as hot as in this room it's like if I saw him hat listen coastless I'd just be like well it's
00:27:27
warm yeah and then they were like you are either Desperado I don't know there's nothing
00:27:36
in between and he was right into town the atlas and coatless right how dare he and he was frantically
00:27:45
seeking the sheriff so the man told authorities that he had been attacked oh no and that those who had set upon him
00:27:52
he said were no less persons than the man and woman who kept Six Mile House I don't know if you remember but that is
00:27:59
John and Levine I knew the likely story I feel like this is just a cover-up because he's turned up drastically
00:28:05
underdressed at this time and he's like oh I was robbed I have to explain this so the man says he claims that he had
00:28:12
seen the fishers on the previous night going through his belongings and he had heard them make mention of having to
00:28:18
attend to him the following morning so he got out of there which I think was a little Hasty because they do run a bed
00:28:25
of breakfast so if they were like we should have come to our guest tomorrow he's like they're gonna murder me
00:28:30
he got he caught a Vibe but it's either a really good thing or a really bad thing I know maybe he just has a better
00:28:36
intuition than I do yes [Laughter] we spent all day yesterday telling people to trust their gun on the episode
00:28:51
yeah you're like I don't know about that if there's Breakfast no Continental though that's not good enough it's
00:28:58
really not cooked breakfast yes as long as I can have like butter buttermilk pancakes delightful sitting
00:29:13
in bed yeah right before you die yeah that's always kneaded into the trapdoor that's all that I need so the sheriff
00:29:20
went to Six Mile house that day and he drove the band of robbers out including John and Lavinia Fisher and he left a
00:29:27
man on site to ensure that these Bandits did not return so he was just like get out of your own house and this guy's
00:29:33
gonna stay here and make sure that you don't and when they did the man went for the law again because they came back
00:29:38
they were like we're not you have you left one guy I mean like many people and John Fisher you left one guy we're
00:29:46
coming back in so he went back to the sheriff again who at this time finally apprehended the entire gang and
00:29:53
confiscated 10 muskets some pistols knives and a large canister of powder from the house a large canister of
00:30:01
powder was it powdered sugar for pancakes no that's a question I don't think so I don't specify
00:30:11
so the Fishers were found guilty of highway robbery and they were sentenced to hang this escalated so quickly it did
00:30:19
I feel like there was a little build up to this that the sheriff wasn't taking any notice of anything that was going on
00:30:23
at Six Mile House and then suddenly they're like we need to hang them yeah suddenly that that's another part of
00:30:29
this that is very um especially old-timey American which was just like um you should die even just being a
00:30:38
hangman the a Highwayman was a hangover fan yeah the in um where I went to school there's like a little
00:30:44
um like a tiny little pyramid in the middle of a field and it marks the the last Highway meant to ever be hanged
00:30:50
really yeah oh that's so interesting listen oh that's so crazy the only reason to go down
00:30:59
where it was voted Britain's ugliest Town um but there isn't a nice song but there
00:31:04
is a very good it's like it's like this big and it's just in the middle of a field that is
00:31:19
cool those kind of things are always crazy to me like in Salem we have all those little memorials and they're
00:31:24
always like these small little things that are like this gnarly thing happens here yeah and that's all you have left
00:31:31
no it's true but we're wild we're full of them as you guys must be in Boston because like we've been going around and
00:31:36
we're like it's it's like the first place it feels like really really historic oh yeah since the circle as
00:31:41
[ __ ] and I used to work um where I used to work in London it was like in a really boring place to work nursing
00:31:46
Catherine's dock but I'd get off the tube and walk to my office and it was past like um uh was it Tower of London
00:31:54
and there's just a sign on my way to work there to be like this is where amberlynn was beheaded
00:31:59
and then all these tourists taking pictures of it and I'm like I'm just trying to get it
00:32:04
excuse me Amber but this is where amberlin was buried that is wow they also have um I
00:32:12
don't know how familiar you are with the Cinematic Masterpiece Pocahontas 2. um actually a weirdly pretty familiar
00:32:27
is still there so you know just yeah so you just walk right past it and it's just the gate on the Thames and it just
00:32:33
says straight as gay above it oh my God I think I should come to London I'm dying
00:32:41
um we will do this in a hot Studio there as well we did a five-parter on Jack the Ripper
00:32:47
it was like entrenched in it I was like I have to go she's dying to go to my channel
00:32:56
we gotta go okay we'll talk about this we're gonna do it I'm solving that case let's go I'm telling you that's my
00:33:04
lifelong ambition it is hot in here oh god what have I done so yeah the Fishers were found guilty of
00:33:16
highway robbery they were sentenced to hang they sat in their cells for nearly a year waiting on a pardon for their
00:33:22
execution and apparently when John was visited by a local priest he was very contrite he
00:33:28
wanted his soul to be saved but Lavinia she had no interest in Salvation she really only cared about being pardoned
00:33:36
it never came oh no when the day finally came John begged his wife to make peace
00:33:41
with her God but she absolutely refused to not one word of religious instruction
00:33:46
would she listen that's like kind about us especially I feel like especially back then yeah yeah straight up
00:33:54
Rebellion yeah now when their execution finally arrived apparently Lavinia had to be dragged from her cell while she
00:34:01
shrieked and raved like quote one insane was she insane or was she just about to
00:34:09
be hanged you decide I don't know might shriek as well yeah maybe I don't think a lot of us could be like stoic in
00:34:18
that moment but some say Lavinia and her husband were dressed in white outfits as
00:34:23
they made their way to the gal it's like matching white outfits while other variations insist that Lavinia was
00:34:29
wearing her wedding dress no she was not and when she finally reached the Gallows Lavinia blurted out
00:34:37
profanities from The Gallows which I think is the best um and before famously shouting if you
00:34:44
leave if you have a message you want to send to Hell give it to me some say Lavinia even cheated the
00:35:02
hangman at One Moment by jumping from the platforms back into position well just
00:35:08
above her own trapdoor and then hanged with John so to this day it said that lavinia's ghost haunts the grounds that
00:35:16
once held the old city jail where she was held for nearly a year before her execution others say she haunts
00:35:23
Charleston's Unitarian cemetery and whatever the case her spirit is believed to still quote Rome and haunt the last
00:35:30
areas she knew and where she felt most unsettled in her life so that's the story but here's the real story of what
00:35:38
happens Lavinia was a school teacher she retired at the age of 30. at the age of 30. yes you know back then
00:35:51
she oh yeah that's true that's true so not a lot is really known about the Fishers before their arrests in
00:35:57
actuality but for all intents and purposes their Story begins in the winter of 1819. in response to the rise
00:36:03
in Highwaymen robbing people you know that was happening all the damn time there were lynch mobs that were formed
00:36:10
and they were basically the one bringing Justice outside of the law to these random Highwaymen of course we know this
00:36:16
was often a legit Act of terrorism masked as Justice yeah so frustrated by the ongoing attacks on Travelers and
00:36:25
Merchants on Meetinghouse Road on February 16 1819 a heavily armed mob assembled and rode from Charleston in
00:36:33
the direction of Five Mile House oh damn they had received word that a gang of Thieves who was responsible for a string
00:36:40
of Highway robberies near Ashley Ferry had holed up at one of the houses and they were determined to smoke them out
00:36:46
and bring them to justice according to author Bruce Orr which we will make sure we get a little reference in the in the
00:36:54
show notes for his book The Mob allegedly had permission from the owners of several small houses in the area to
00:37:00
proceed as they saw fit which I don't know if I believe that I was gonna say I doubt that so like um
00:37:08
they said it was fine if we murdered these people okay so they said to do whatever we wanted while we were here
00:37:13
said it was fine if we lit this one on fire so talk to someone else I don't know now among the many obvious problems
00:37:20
with mob Justice is that lynch mobs tend to lack information and objectivity [Laughter]
00:37:32
I mean I haven't really thought out opinions we have cited sources instead they really only operate on
00:37:40
reactionary emotions and just Collective outrage that'll do it that's usually the
00:37:45
case no one's taking a step back and really thinking in these cases so in the case of the attacks along Meeting House
00:37:51
Road none of the victims who reported being attacked or Rob robbed could actually identify any of their attackers
00:37:58
so when the mob arrived at Five Mile House they had no idea who they were looking before they were just going in
00:38:05
there being like I guess we just take everyone in the house it's good to get swept up before you know what's
00:38:09
happening it's always good to act first and then go oops later you don't want to
00:38:13
be the last person joining the mob yeah then it just seems like you jumped on the bandwagon precisely they're working
00:38:19
off the like Mantra of like you ask for forgiveness not permission so like we'll
00:38:24
just later we'll deal with it it's fine we're just favorite kind of people you know yeah I'm not asking so nevertheless
00:38:31
when they entered the Inn the mob found a small group of individuals assembled inside and regardless of whether they
00:38:39
were the actual aggressors or robbers the group was instructed to grab whatever personal belongings they had
00:38:45
near them and get the hell out of the house immediately likely pretty confused yeah startled by
00:38:51
the appearance of a giant violent mob at their house the group of five mile house
00:38:56
um protested a little bit and they resisted a little bit because they were like what the [ __ ] is happening right
00:39:01
now so the mob was like okay and they just lit the building on fire oh [ __ ] they're like we gave you a chance burn
00:39:08
to the ground in a very small period of time people got out but they burnt it to
00:39:12
the ground with people in it is this one lavinia's house no this is next to Lavinia okay
00:39:20
gotcha gotcha so the mob was like well that worked really well because everybody got out
00:39:28
yeah so they were like all right so they moved a little further up the road hoping to Dole out some justice to Six
00:39:36
Mile House as well here we go so the Proprietors of Six Mile House and the visitors of Six Mile House actually they
00:39:43
actually listened and complied you would I'm wondering if they saw like I don't know this
00:39:50
maybe smelled a little something or maybe it was the actual Lynch Mob that was at their door that they were like
00:40:01
this is what this was smart they took context clues they put problem solving and they were like this is gonna end
00:40:07
badly for us we should leave yeah so they got out either way they left and to make sure they didn't return they did
00:40:13
that old standby where they just leave one guy standing at the door to keep the entire house out the entire Lynch Mob
00:40:20
too yeah exactly so it worked well in the past it has obviously so they and it and it works for six mile house so they
00:40:27
left a guy named David Ross at Six Mile House and they said don't let them back in I don't know if I trust him I don't
00:40:33
know about David Ross no I think bad for David Ross I don't know if I would pick
00:40:37
like David no I feel like I could overpower David Ross I don't know what name I would choose I've been thinking
00:40:43
about names a lot while we've been talking about this I feel like they're a hot guy names names there are like
00:40:49
strong names yep what's the hottest hot guy name if it's not John I was gonna say because you're bias
00:41:10
but I would say hot guy names Hawkeye names I don't know most guys are not that hot so
00:41:19
I don't know I've always thought maybe it's because of um The Little Mermaid is his name
00:41:25
Eric are you kidding Eric question I know he's such a prick in hindsight what was our qantases oh John John John
00:41:36
and then John Rolf there you go she I'm a princess and the frog girly Naveen um the hottest who's the hottest Disney
00:41:48
prince obviously General Shang oh yes Adam actually while we're on tour um people ask us you know what are your
00:42:06
like pre-pre-show rituals are only pre-show Rich well apart from watching 90 Day Fiance in our dressing rooms is
00:42:12
um listening to Mulan I'll Make a manner you guys can have it wow wow you save it for occasions where we
00:42:25
need to get specially hyped yeah there you go yeah I love one of my kids especially one of my twins is obsessed
00:42:31
with Mulan thanks to me loves that song and when she was like two she used to be like let's get down
00:42:41
to business let's go you get him yeah then it gets like super like not feminist at all
00:42:55
women and like yeah they did they did give you daughters who gives a [ __ ] what you
00:43:03
asked for you she's biting it she's fighting that's why we love Princess and the Frog
00:43:14
in our house too because it's like she's the best Tiana's like Tiana [Laughter] so yes so David Ross David is not to me
00:43:29
the guy I would leave I don't know why I know what you mean I know what you mean
00:43:33
right if there was a John around I'd be like John stay over there so it's like um are there any doctors here are there
00:43:39
any John's here exactly I feel like it's like a it's a solid name a little solid not Phil but Phillip
00:43:46
Phillip William Williams yes anymore okay except Harry Styles [Laughter] after don't worry darling
00:44:12
[Laughter] Jack so kind of yeah I don't trust him yeah so there's that well those are
00:44:20
names well they should have left Shang instead they left David and they told him you let us know if anyone returns
00:44:27
which this was kind of my favorite thing because it's like instruct us like or alert us if somebody returns and it's
00:44:33
like but they didn't have like a cell phone or a walkie-talkie so it's like jump on your horse and ride like miles
00:44:39
into town to be like hey they're there like I don't think that's gonna help but sometime later David Ross returned to
00:44:48
Charleston pretty frantically because he was like [ __ ] I have to alert you he was
00:44:53
asking for the sheriff and in his sworn testimony later Ross said he was the one
00:44:57
that was hatless and coatless that was not him immediate red flag I'm saying he said that shortly after 9 pm a man named
00:45:05
William Hayward one of the men who'd been forced out of Six Mile House by the mob he had returned to the inn and he
00:45:11
had quote cursed him collared him violently and pushed him out how dare he so William but like how dare he because
00:45:19
William's like this is my [ __ ] house like get out oh I'm so Dairy so he came in he called that guy on he was like
00:45:24
David get out of here okay I'm coming back at my house so we did and then he slammed the door on his face he was very
00:45:30
careful to say that that's his door I am the door in his face yeah so when David
00:45:34
Ross went back into the house and I love this because he's like David goes into the house that doesn't belong to him
00:45:40
that he was just thrown out of he goes back in and he asks Hayward hey can I get a couple of my things that I had
00:45:47
here no yeah Hayward apparently put his hands into his bosom and said you damned infernal
00:45:55
Rascal if you lay your hand on anything I will blow your brains out I am only going to call people damned and Inferno
00:46:03
Rascals but you have to touch their bosom as you said no I don't know about that I mean that's right
00:46:18
[Laughter] but after being rebuffed by Hayward a second time Ross was surprised to find
00:46:32
that more of the people from Six Mile House were now returning and we're like we're just gonna come back into our
00:46:38
house specifically John and Lavinia Fisher as well as two other men that Ross didn't recognize so Ross claimed
00:46:45
that at that point Lavinia Fisher quote Lavinia herself laid violent hands upon him she said catch these hands
00:46:56
she came for his book she choked him and then pushed his head through a glass window
00:47:03
Lavinia she's got no chill God [ __ ] around what's that like um horribly offensive
00:47:11
chart that people post on Twitter whether like how hot she is how crazy she is sure she's gonna throw your head through
00:47:21
a glass window but the Six Mile House Gang continued beating Ross with their fists and with loaded whips
00:47:29
no idea what a loaded whip was because a whippets I'm like what I looked it up an
00:47:34
apparently loaded whips were shot loaded and it would make them heavier and like
00:47:39
more dangerous so one end of the whip was it was essentially like putting rocks in a sock and beating someone with
00:47:46
it but like with a whip oh my God so it would cause a lot of damage I was trying
00:47:50
to think of some sort of joke like with loaded potato skins but then I just got hungry because I've only had three
00:47:54
raisins today I'm like oh now I'm thinking of food I just thought of Taco Bell real quick
00:48:11
thought about it passing thought it was only after they had beaten the crap out of David Ross with their hands and with
00:48:19
loaded whips and that Lavinia had choked him and thrown him no it was only after this that he was
00:48:27
able to get through that window and just take a run into the woods that man was running for his life he [ __ ] around
00:48:33
and he found out but he wasn't even done being [ __ ] around with because he ran
00:48:38
into the woods he reached the cover of the tree line and they started firing guns at him on the tree line
00:48:44
story like the other one was like the urban Line This is the real thing so he managed to make it back to a main road
00:48:51
and was crossing freitius bridge don't know what that is but I keep thinking of like righteous yeah
00:48:59
apparently it was just outside of proper Charleston and that's when he spotted the entire gang pursuing him still and
00:49:07
Lavinia shouted you damned infernal Rascals If Ever I catch you I will give you a hundred lashes I love her a lot
00:49:16
which also makes me think I'm like was Lavinia the one with the loaded whip yeah it sounds like him yeah I mean
00:49:22
maybe Six Mile House is some sort of BDSM dungeon what's going on in there yeah right that's what the spider for
00:49:30
yeah consent involved yeah but maybe it is maybe this is all just some really elaborate role play situation between
00:49:37
Lavinia and um our what's his name the running away man I'm sorry and somebody just saw it all
00:49:46
happening yeah and then wrote a really um loaded piece about how she was some sort of Highway woman but actually she
00:49:51
was just running some sort of innocent PDF stuff instead she was just like a really professional dominatrist to the
00:49:58
plot line hell yeah she was like you didn't say a safe word and he's running away because he wants it to end but he
00:50:04
can't remember the safety the safe way to shame it's a hard one to remember you know
00:50:10
she's just trying to make a movie so yeah she's she also used the Damned infernal Rascal which I'm sure is like
00:50:21
the [ __ ] of that day yeah like you know like everyone was just like oh you're such a damned infernal Rascal
00:50:26
which doesn't have the same no like you're an [ __ ] it doesn't pack the same Punch Yeah but yeah she's gonna
00:50:32
give him 100 lashes if he doesn't or if she catches him but the group must have kind of given up the chase at some point
00:50:38
she didn't catch him because Ross managed to make it safely back into Charleston that evening to cry in front
00:50:44
of a sheriff and be like why did you leave me in front of that house what a baby meanwhile it was David you left
00:50:49
David how's your own doing yo David yo David a merchant by the name of John peoples
00:50:57
which I love that fun peoples he was headed out of the city and my thing just went into black okay towards Meeting
00:51:03
House Road and when he reached Six Mile House John people stopped at the end this was after all of this it was around
00:51:10
11 p.m and he was just gonna rest and water his horse so you know as one does so once he stopped at the end he alleged
00:51:19
that he and his young companion who was a young boy I don't know if it was his son or what they don't say they were
00:51:25
attacked and robbed by multiple people at Six Mile House in His official affidavit he claims that as he was
00:51:32
arguing with his companion over who would get the water bucket for the horses nine or ten persons among them a
00:51:39
tall Stout woman came out of the same house it was armed with clubs guns and pistols
00:51:47
and immediately made a violent assault on them so according to people's the woman among
00:51:53
them was the most vicious of all of them it was active in beating him cutting him
00:52:01
over the head and eyes with a stick okay like it's a calm down the video is a talk to someone
00:52:08
this is what you poor Jim Shang but John peoples and His companion were eventually able to escape
00:52:19
the gang and made their way back to the road I love that they were just attacked
00:52:23
while they were watering their horse and they're like ah and they just like run away life was hard back then we think we
00:52:28
have a bad mouth trying to wander your horse these days just stopping at an end but although he wasn't aware of it in
00:52:34
that moment John peoples was pursued by two of the men in the gang to the road he just didn't know it
00:52:40
um and these two men rode up on him and the boy who was with him and they brandished pistols and demanded that
00:52:46
they hand over any money or valuables that they had after searching the man and the boy the bandits took his
00:52:52
pocketbook and it contained roughly forty dollars which is a pretty good haul back then and turned back in the
00:52:59
direction of Six Mile House so meanwhile John peoples and this boy raced back to
00:53:05
Charleston and immediately reported the attack to authorities although he couldn't positively identify each member
00:53:11
of the gang right then and there John people's quote had just caught us to believe that among them was William
00:53:17
Hayward John Fisher and his wife Lavinia Fisher another man named Joseph Roberts and
00:53:23
another man named John Andrews lots of Johns lots of Josephs so author Bruce Bruce Bruce
00:53:33
points out that among the more interesting aspects of the John people's affidavit is that the document looks
00:53:39
like it was written in the handwriting of a lot of different people so that's weird that is and on various
00:53:45
different points in the affidavit his name is spelled peoples like p-e-o-p-l-e-s and people's
00:53:52
p-e-e-p-l-e-s I wonder why so people think this means one at least another person was involved in writing that
00:53:58
description of events but they're not sure why and it's but it's also possible when you really think of like you know
00:54:04
history and reality in that time he might have not had an ability to read and write so they might have had to have
00:54:10
somebody documenting his report still interesting he also notes that the list appears to have been added to people's
00:54:17
affidavit likely after it had been filed and it's a list of the people they think
00:54:21
were in Six Mile House and that was John Fisher Lavinia Fisher William Hayward Joseph Roberts William Andrews Seth
00:54:29
Young no I never saw this no it's like when you watch Game of Thrones and you're
00:54:36
just like why is he called Jamie thank you you're like why is he called Rob Rob Tyrion
00:54:42
[Laughter] and it's like no just rub I do love Rob though he's my favorite so yeah actually you know what [ __ ] John
00:54:55
yeah thank you I don't get enough of that I would I'm a Rob girl yeah I mean a little hot headed like a little bit
00:55:04
think about it such a robot robbing Rob the Red Wedding was like a real dark moment
00:55:14
[Laughter] when he says mother oh no no don't go there so go there we said I just I put
00:55:22
this on my head and it's the way he says it and if anyone's complaining about spoilers that show's like 10 years old
00:55:27
yeah and all I said was he said mother okay he did love his mom so we gotta say which is a trick because we got like
00:55:37
John William Joseph William James John James John it's okay there is I don't accept
00:55:47
yeah pour one out for him so with sworn affidavits from two victims and Witnesses Sheriff clear Cleary quickly
00:55:56
assembled a huge Posse of police officers and Vigilantes on February 19 1819. that's when the group headed out
00:56:03
to Six Mile House and when they arrived at the end they surrounded the place demanded everyone's surrender
00:56:08
immediately and that's when they basically were able to search Six Mile House and they found that large storage
00:56:14
of weapons and powder so that was all true so the gang definitely had the means to resist them but I don't know
00:56:22
why they decided not to I don't know if it was they decided it was too big of a posse to overwhelm or John Fisher there
00:56:29
is one like set of tales and I kind of believe it because I feel like John Fisher was like a good husband yeah John
00:56:36
he's a child you know we love a job we do and John Fisher apparently said that he opted to surrender rather than risk
00:56:44
injury or desk death to his wife oh I believe that so he did that for Lavinia which in the power couple that is John
00:56:50
and Levin yeah believable whatever their reason was they were arrested without a
00:56:56
fight and the sheriff successfully did get John and Lavinia they also got James McElroy they did get Seth young but I
00:57:04
don't know if he ever comes up again and they got um somebody James Howard so evidence taken from the home and this
00:57:10
does come back so don't worry I'm not just randomly saying it was a large cowhide but they didn't own any cows so
00:57:19
they were like where the house yeah it was like a recent catalog and they were like what's this about so by the time
00:57:25
the gang members were being loaded into the wagon the scene had attracted a big crowd obviously because I always loved
00:57:31
that in these old-timey cases where it's like this huge crime scene and all these
00:57:34
people are just walking through it they're like whoa look at that blood like they're all just like taking pieces
00:57:48
of like skull fragments off the floor being like wow this was great Sunday thanks for having us yeah just walking
00:57:54
through it so a man named Stephen Lacoste who was a neighbor of Six Mile House went in there and he saw this cow
00:58:01
hide and he said [ __ ] that's my cow oh no oh my God missing oh no somebody had stolen this man's cow
00:58:10
defense for sure I was like damn stealing a cow that's a big business out of them I'm saying Justice for Steven
00:58:18
not cool was that the horse's name Stephen so rather than leaving the scene as it was or coming back later to search
00:58:26
it more they just set it on fire because easy what else are you gonna do I'm not
00:58:31
seem to be working well for them so it was burned to the ground and a few days after their arrest or a somewhat more
00:58:36
thorough search of the grounds around the area was made which I love that they burned the place down and they were like
00:58:41
we go back there and like see if there's any evidence really it's really cleared
00:58:45
out all the Clutter about it we made it easier made it sanitary um and at least two bodies were indeed
00:58:52
found buried near the house like right on the property one was the body of a male who'd been shot and the other was
00:58:58
the skeletal remains of a woman who'd been buried in an unmarked grave at least two years earlier so many of them
00:59:05
were ever identified oh wow oh good there was at least two there and the members of this Six Mile House Gang were
00:59:12
taken to the city jail which was apparently only a small step up from like medieval dungeons
00:59:18
there was no running water there was no bed or toilet instead there was a pile of wood chips where they were like
00:59:24
that's your bed and your toilet oh wow so have fun with that and apparently if you were a violent offender you were
00:59:31
just Shackled to a steel ring that was in the middle of the floor and if you stepped out of line you got the [ __ ]
00:59:36
kicked out of you um so that's fun and they said that it was also not unusual for a corpse to
00:59:42
reach an advanced state of decomposition before being removed from a cell so you
00:59:47
don't want to do any sooner you don't want to go to the city jail so at the time of John and lavinia's arrest South
00:59:54
Carolina still operated under Colonial justice system so this system was based on a mix of biblical edicts and laws
01:00:01
imposed by the British crown no thanks a lot as such the crimes of which the gang
01:00:08
were accused highway robbery were considered a capital offense and that made all members eligible for the death
01:00:14
penalty so by February 22nd the sheriff had also arrested gang member James Sterrett which would bring the total
01:00:22
arrested to seven some more arrests would come later by the end of the week I think there was
01:00:28
about nine people that were arrested from that house that were in the gang and once they'd all been rounded up they
01:00:34
were all brought before John peoples and he identified them all as the ones who violently attacked them and robbed them
01:00:40
imagine that so looking at their previous crimes that they've been punished for both John and Lavinia had
01:00:46
previously been arrested for theft which at least for John he had received 30 lashes for it James Starrett had also
01:00:53
been convicted of theft on one occasion and he had been branded as his punishment oh wow and Joseph Roberts had
01:01:00
had a piece of his ear chopped off as well I'm still not totally convinced these people weren't just taking part in
01:01:07
some elaborate BDSM situations it really is it should be quite honest on March 23 1819 John and Lavinia as
01:01:17
well as William Hayward and Joseph Roberts were brought before judge Hall Bay and they were going to determine
01:01:23
whether there was enough evidence to convict them at least of assaulting David Ross because remember David poor
01:01:29
Shang the judge said there was enough evidence and he set bond for all the individual
01:01:35
members but only Hayward and Robert Roberts managed to post post bail so Roberts got out but he didn't do well
01:01:42
with his immediate freedom because two days later he was again arrested for threatening the life of a local butcher
01:01:48
the same butcher that the gang sold the meat that belonged to the cow found in the elk building at Six Mile House that
01:01:54
belonged that they had the cowhide for well freaking Circle that's so satisfying I'm so impressed
01:02:03
I was just really intense I was like I really mean that you stole his cow and then killed him sold its me and you kept
01:02:11
aside that's not cool so the trial began on May 10 1819 and that's where John Lavinia William Joseph and James were
01:02:19
all indicted for assault with intent to murder David Ross the Attorney General's
01:02:23
document said the gang quote were said to have wielded pointed and fired a loaded weapon at David Ross with the
01:02:29
intent to kill him I agree by the time the hearing concluded on the 27th through various methods a lot of the
01:02:36
gang either skipped town were either to escape or somehow got off the indictment
01:02:41
I'm not really sure how it left really only John and Lavinia on the hook for the whole crime problem excellent so the
01:02:47
trial was drawing huge crowds and the couple was found guilty on both assaults with intent to murder and common
01:02:54
assaults on David Ross damn so on June 2nd they were brought before judge Charles Jones colcock for sentencing
01:03:05
however the sentencing part then got moved to the Constitutional court at the last second this is so complicated it is
01:03:13
so now it was going to be held and it wasn't going to be held until the conclusion of the trial and
01:03:17
unfortunately for John and Lavinia the Constitutional Court wouldn't be back in session until January
01:03:24
anyway so the couple was going to be held at the city jail where you pee where you
01:03:30
sleep and you might die and rotten there and this had been going on like almost a
01:03:34
year at this point yeah and in the meantime William Hayward had been recaptured in South Carolina and because
01:03:39
he was tried and convicted in absentia so while he wasn't there he was returned to Charleston to await with the Fishers
01:03:46
so the gang's all getting back together which is nice United and as a husband and wife John and Lavinia were held in
01:03:53
the same cell so that's that's sweet precious but they were on the ground floor initially oh that was like the
01:04:00
really bad floor to be on is everything dripping yeah there's no ventilation uh so Lavinia used her Wiles to get the
01:04:10
move to the debtors section of the prison which was on a higher floor uh the cells were much bigger not a lot of
01:04:17
infectious diseases so they were allowed to do that and weirdly the debtors section was also
01:04:24
where Joseph Roberts another member of the gang was serving his sentence for threatening the butcher so they were all
01:04:30
reunited again in the cell so on the evening of September 13th John and Joseph actually managed to dig a
01:04:38
hole under the wall of one of the cell Windows large enough for them to fit through and using a rope made of
01:04:44
blankets they tied together they climbed down the wall damn Joseph Roberts went out and then he got there John was going
01:04:51
down and the blanket rope snapped so he fell 20 feet to the ground below and now
01:04:57
Lavinia couldn't escape good so she's just sitting there with a giant hole I actually don't know anything about
01:05:05
this she's like you didn't want to go with the ladies first okay so they they were like oh no that
01:05:12
sucks and then they just died they just ran away no one noticed until the next morning that's when the governor is
01:05:18
issued Proclamation offering a 500 reward for their recapture the sheriff didn't have to look very far I don't
01:05:26
they weren't really smart I don't think this was really going a whole and again this is another case of John being a
01:05:32
really good husband even though he left Lavinia well don't you worry though because their original plan was to
01:05:37
escape and travel by boat to Cuba obviously but John refused to leave Lavinia behind so he and Roberts had
01:05:46
stayed close to the jail to try to come up with a plan for how to get Lavinia oh
01:05:51
okay love so he got himself caught that way a few days after their escape they were visiting a local grocer which I'm
01:05:57
also like guys what are you doing wanted convex the local grocer was like hi John and Rob
01:06:06
what aren't you supposed to be in jail because he immediately called Sheriff Cleary it was like hi I have them here
01:06:12
wow the sheriff found them hiding under an overturned boat which is similar to how
01:06:21
they found the Boston Market they found him on in a boat yeah yeah but they just shot out a bunch of times
01:06:28
can we say full circle we haven't brought them up yet but we're in Boston here we go and they were both returned
01:06:36
to the city jail they were gonna have to wait for that constitutional Court in January so on January 17 1820 John and
01:06:43
Lavinia appeared before the Constitutional Court they figured they were going to be sentenced for those
01:06:48
assaults and that's it but as they got there the prosecutor was like hey you're also going to be sentenced for highway
01:06:55
robbery and they were like wait though that's a capital offense and we will die and they were like that sucks don't know
01:07:01
what to tell you and it was on John peoples that's what they were they were now bringing that in at the five at like
01:07:06
the ninth hour so they ended up being sentenced to hang on February 4th 1820. in the week following their sentence
01:07:14
John and Lavinia had petitioned several clergy men and no notable charlestonians
01:07:20
uh just asking to intervene on their behalf because they were being sentenced for something they were
01:07:27
not tried and convicted of yeah if they did it they didn't have a fair trial so they claimed they wanted an opportunity
01:07:33
for repentance and for time to prepare to meet their God and so they wanted to reprieve at least the governor granted
01:07:39
the reprieve but the order only pushed the date back to like February 18th it was like a few days now while John and
01:07:47
Lavinia waited for execution they spent a lot of time preparing for death and what comes next with various clergy men
01:07:53
John like the original story apparently welcomed us he was like very intensely praying but Lavinia definitely
01:08:01
legitimately was not interested in this she was more worried about just saving herself she was like I would really like
01:08:07
just to live through this and not prepare for what comes next so they said when she engaged in prayer Lavinia would
01:08:15
jump at any moment or Noise by her captors she was convinced they were coming to her with a pardon so she was
01:08:21
totally convinced she was getting pardoned out of this to him and she was very confident evident that they would
01:08:25
not one execute her for a crime she had never been convicted of and to execute a
01:08:30
woman unfortunately she was wrong because yeah but at the time I will say contrary to what like Legends will tell
01:08:40
you many residents of Charleston really believed Lavinia was innocent of at least that crime and they were actually
01:08:46
advocating for her release wow which is wild uh but this got more intense when a
01:08:53
local man was arrested for an unrelated crime and allegedly confessed to the highway robbery
01:09:01
which is okay uh but he's um I'm like didn't John people say there was like a whole gang of people who came
01:09:12
out yeah this guy's like I did it though apparently the man was able to identify
01:09:18
the exact amount of money that had been stolen by from John peoples okay it was also being able to say other elements of
01:09:24
the crime that he probably wouldn't know if he wasn't there so maybe he was part
01:09:27
of the mob at least regardless of the confession though the governor refused to extend the reprieve and in fact he
01:09:35
left the city and just to avoid any negative press he was like I know this guy says that he did it and we never
01:09:41
actually tried you or convicted you for this but I'm gonna go on vacation honestly how on the nose is that though
01:09:48
yeah like I'm out yeah he was like I'm gonna go on vacation with my family yeah that's like in the in the Jack the
01:09:54
Ripper case when he was just like well I'm out I'm gonna go to Sweden and see you guys later yeah I hope you guys
01:10:00
catch up see ya good luck I mean there's one way to deal with all of your problems she's um
01:10:06
so now they were gonna be killed for crimes that they were very sketchally associated with and they weren't even
01:10:13
tried for but there were bodies found on their property so like this is kind of Mayhem yeah
01:10:19
you're like they didn't do some bad stuff they stolen killed a cow yeah so [ __ ]
01:10:24
they sold the meat and then they did two people died on their property at the very least and one of them was shot so
01:10:30
like one of them was shot yeah just saying so in February 18th arrived um caskets for the Fishers were selected so
01:10:38
beautiful and the hangman was measuring the length of rope when John and Lavinia
01:10:43
were LED from the city jail to The Gallows and apparently it is true that when Lavinia saw the hangman measuring
01:10:50
the rope that was going to be used to hang her with she shrieked in Terror her cry chilling every heart with horror
01:10:58
which yeah yeah that'll do it they were presented in the Town Square before they
01:11:04
went to The Gallows and they were covered in loose white garments together apparently it's like a smock thing I
01:11:09
don't know why they would do it but they were given one final opportunity to say
01:11:13
goodbye and at this moment they fell into each other's arms ruined me wow They begged the hangman to spare
01:11:21
their lives but the hangman was indifferent to their suffering and he was apparently very aggressive and like
01:11:27
manhandled the moon he's a hangman yeah you know that's you have to be to have that job but once John and Levidia had
01:11:33
gone on the Lavinia excuse me had gone on the wagon they made their way to The Gallows huge crowds are following them
01:11:40
it's like a parade and when they arrived John Klein the scaffold without incident
01:11:44
but Lavinia refused to move from her spot at the bottom of the stairs she had to be carried up on the platform once
01:11:51
there she called out to the crowd apparently with her arms outstretched asking them to save her wow they all
01:11:58
literally were like nah it was like that like blink blink just crickets so then she began cursing them
01:12:06
and blaspheming apparently blaspheme them girl yeah they're not helping you yeah so finally the Reverend asked John
01:12:13
whether he had any final words and John decided to address the crowd and he begged forgiveness for those he had ever
01:12:20
offended and he also claimed his and lavinia's innocence they both embraced one final time the sacks went over their
01:12:27
heads signal from the sheriff down they go the Press reports that Lavinia quote died without a struggle or a groan and
01:12:35
that John unfortunately wasn't so lucky and it was some minutes before he expired and ceased to struggle ouch yeah
01:12:42
so just after 2 p.m on February 18th 1820 John and Lavinia Fitcher were pronounced dead he was is only 29. she
01:12:51
was 28. oh my God I was picturing like people who were like 50. me too me too for real they were young
01:12:57
so John and Lavinia Fisher were members of a gang of Thieves that much is true Lavinia Fisher was definitely not
01:13:04
America's first serial female serial killer by any means no it's possible she never killed anyone it's possible she
01:13:10
did kill someone in truth the only crime they really acknowledged committing was
01:13:15
robbing and beating David Ross the legend grew nonetheless and in the Years following their execution John and
01:13:25
Lavinia Fisher's story became a media tale of just murder and Mayhem it was huge in the Penny Dreadful Publications
01:13:31
and pamphlets they really took it and ran with it in 1830 a man named Peter Nielsen published a book where he
01:13:38
claimed to have been in Charleston at the time of the arrest and he said the Fishers had been robbing and killing for
01:13:44
years and according to Bruce Orr Nielsen claimed quote on digging around this den
01:13:49
of iniquity a great number of skeletons were found no doubt the remains of unfortunate Travelers so people still
01:13:55
claimed that there was tons of skeletons in that house everywhere exactly and actually in the
01:14:03
latter part of the 19th century lavinia's skeleton was exhumed from her coffin in a Potter's field and put on
01:14:10
display at the Charleston museum so everyone could see the remains of the only woman to have been hanged in South
01:14:18
Carolina wow they were occasionally uh I loved this because when I read it I was
01:14:23
like what does that mean because they were occasionally removed from their display for being out of order like the
01:14:30
video was out of order out of order I was like wow did she need a tune-up like what does that mean yeah I don't know
01:14:36
about all that border oh but as of it was latest 1922 they were still on display holy [ __ ] yeah and they were at
01:14:46
that point they were definitely not just like a band of gang of like Bandits they
01:14:50
were she was the first female serial killer at that point because that's what they were telling her as wow who had
01:14:55
like hundreds of bones in her Cellar you're gonna get those punters in right you got to and I think part of this
01:15:01
story is definitely she was a woman so it's exaggerated because female criminals of her caliber were definitely
01:15:07
not common even if her real caliber were not common her rest and story definitely
01:15:12
became a huge interest of the time and even now and at the in the 19th century many of if not most people believed that
01:15:19
women were incapable of violence of any kind never mind murder so Lavinia was just something like new and fascinating
01:15:26
I think and so she's just the legend just got a life of its own but there is always moral lessons and like social
01:15:34
lessons in urban legends don't steal someone's cow but this story people like to say is
01:15:42
that this is telling you what is and isn't acceptable of a woman at the time it's very clear that they were trying to
01:15:49
be like look at the consequences for stepping out of your normal like you should be at home popping out babies
01:15:55
something like cooking dinner you're gonna get hanged like that's essentially what it was and finally there is the
01:16:02
convenient fact that the legendary account of lovina Fisher's monstrous killing spree and being the serial
01:16:09
killer it justifies a lot of problematic elements of the real story The Legend kind of makes law enforcement and the
01:16:17
justice system at the time like they swept in and they just took care of the heinous crimes we took these people off
01:16:23
the streets so they were painting them as these vicious violent Killers so it kind of also justifies the this
01:16:31
execution that was probably not justified at the time because they were not tried for this
01:16:38
crime and who even knows if they committed it but according to Bruce Orr the government had actually been hoping
01:16:44
to secure the land that Five Mile House and Six Mile House sat on oh so we know exactly what it was going to build a new
01:16:51
Naval base no wonder they were burning all that [ __ ] exactly that was actually
01:16:55
the government so the execution of the Fishers in William Hayward who owned Five Mile
01:17:00
House by the way that would have cleared the property for the state to do whatever the hell they wanted to do with
01:17:06
it without having to jump through any hoops and that is the story of Lavinia Fisher
01:17:12
that's Bonkers Six Mile House well done thank that was outstanding it's like a twisty tourney like what really happened
01:17:21
and I love that we started with some sort of Highwayman robber situation then we transmitted into some sort of BDSM
01:17:30
dungeon exactly and then we ended up with government corruption yeah that's what I always like to travel through via
01:17:36
the Chinese Empire [Laughter] it's a weird tale that was amazing I can't believe I'd never heard of that
01:17:47
I'm gonna go look into this and the bloody thing yeah I've made a mental note super interesting and you guys
01:17:52
should look into Sony Bean it's not real but it is quite fun it is interesting absolutely yeah and then we have to just
01:18:00
get you to come to London so we can show you all the grizzly signs yes please yeah we can take you to the clink yeah
01:18:05
oh yes yeah please there's a bar in shoreditch that used to be a prison and um I probably can't go because my
01:18:15
ex-boyfriend works there but we'll send you that and it's all of the like little
01:18:19
booths downstairs or old cells oh that is so [ __ ] I love it it's very it's very many things let's put you in
01:18:25
Disguise so you can come with that well that was amazing thank you so much for having us thank you listening to
01:18:33
this great story anytime now we get to do another one with it yeah exactly so we're gonna do one now and ours is
01:18:40
Witchy oh hell yeah it is very English very similar time period we're going for 18.75. oh my gosh perfect I love an 18.
01:18:56
very perfectly matched yeah over on uh the red-handed feet now we will take you witchy oldentamy 1875. uh
01:19:06
story I can't promise we go to the Chinese Empire but we do all sorts of things yeah
01:19:12
yeah she's waiting there I switch feeds yeah let's go let's go and yeah come hang out with us at
01:19:23
red-handed hell yeah we're gonna be there guys so check us out there and we hope you keep listening and we hope you
01:19:30
keep it weird but that's where you steal somebody's cow because I just don't really like that
01:19:35
yeah I'm really fixated on that bye [Music] thank you [Music]