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hey weirdos I'm Ash you you're Ela and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid this is moreid what are you
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laughing at [Music] we paused before recording this because Mikey was leaving the room and when he
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said it's recording as said I'm waiting for you to leave no I said I'm waiting didn't I say I'm waiting for you to
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close the door something like that but we were like waiting for you to get the [ __ ] out of here I'm waiting for you to
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be out of my [ __ ] presence for me to start my show whoa we're in a place called space had a Diet Coke different
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from a Baja Blast but same in its results where I just get crazy yeah I mean it was a busy weekend it was a busy
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weekend and there's a busy couple weeks ahead of us I have like always like has been the case the last couple years I
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don't know when this comes out so I don't know if you're going to get this and I will have already I think I'm
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already at book things I think you've finished them okay uh what either either it's going great or it was great if so
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if if you're listening early and AD free then we're at book things right now and
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if you don't we have already been at book things it is uh Hey everybody who's listening to it as it's happening it's
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going great we're having a lot of fun you guys rule who are there our outfits are phenomenal hey everybody that it's
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already happened last week it went so well and thank you for being there and our outfits were phenomenal it's true
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and you've seen them by now I'm really just in it for the cute fits time and space don't mean anything
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they mean everything whoa contradictions quite the contrary yeah you can still buy the book though buy it
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regardless of when you're listening to this you should buy the butcher game you can get it at the butcher game.com you
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can get anywhere you get books by the time this is out it's probably going to be on a shelf somewhere and that's fun
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go grab it that's really cool I'm also going to sign a bunch randomly just going to go around to different places
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so I'll let you know when I do in different states even yeah it's going to be crazy yeah it's going to be this I
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can't believe you're going on like a literal sort of book tour yeah I mean it's a it's a little teeny tiny one but
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it's still a tour yeah okay it's a tour for me I can tell you that much but I'm excited I'm excited or I was
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excited whenever you're listening who knows yeah um but you know what I'm I am eager to tell the story yeah of this
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case because this case isn't solved really oh it has a determination okay uh to it but it is
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controversial oh the determination and I'd like to give you all the information or as much information as I could find
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okay and that Dave could find um and then you guys can make your own determinations but this family really
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really would like this to be out there and they're really trying to get attention on it still and they have been
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for a long time they've in the good fight so it's important that after you listen to this have your theories yeah
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but just remember that like none of us know what happened here real people and that there's
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truly there's truly evidence and lack of evidence for both theories so there's no
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like it's not cut and dry in my opinion it is not cut and dry either way okay um
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so it's just important to remember that that none of us have the evidence to say
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either way so you know hopefully we will have it at some point that's that's the whole thing
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is I hope that they get to reopen this whole thing and they actually get evidence that they've been looking for
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either way just so this family can know what happened have answers yeah because it really is one of those things where
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they just don't know what happen and that's and that's got to be really shitty I feel like a lot of people say
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that's even worse than knowing yeah is not knowing that's the thing I feel like because then I don't know it's I don't
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even close your I always say I don't know if that's the word yeah but just I don't know you just want to know you
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know when it's your loved one so this is the mysterious death of Tiffany valiante
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okay um it's definitely a mysterious death you're going to I think everybody's going to be scratching their
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heads at the end of this the her name sounds familiar yeah so Tiffany Vante was born March 3rd
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1997 um she was the youngest child born to step and Diane valiante um from a pretty early age Tiffany showed that she
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was a true a yeah like really athletic she showed a real aptitude with softball in junior
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high and then she ended up playing volleyball in high school nice and she was so good like so good she went is
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hard yeah and it's it's so taxing on your body yeah like crazy she went to oakrest high school and she was one of
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their star athletes wow like truly made an impression um and it was actually for
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that reason for her skill in leadership abilities in volleyball in high school that she ended up earning a sports
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scholarship to attend Mercy College in New York in the fall of 2015 wow good for her that's a big deal that's huge
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they don't just hand those out no um when she went there she was planning to study criminal justice um but
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unfortunately while she was so excited about her college career to begin her life was tragically cut short before she
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even made it to New York no so she was never able to make it to College which is so sad uh on the afternoon of July
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12th 2015 Tiffany went to a graduation party at the home of her cousin and this home
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was right across the street from her own family house oh wow uh she you know spent the day hanging out she was
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swimming hanging out with family around the pool and the party started to kind of wind down in the early evening so she
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went back home across the street she showered she changed and she had plans for later in the night so she was going
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to be doing that now as the graduation party was wrapping up Diane valiante who is Tiffany's mother yeah got a phone
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call from one of Tiffany's friends and this phone call this friend said I have to speak to you right away so they were
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like okay so they were like she was like meet me at the house so Diane and her husband Tiffany's dad said their
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goodbyes to everybody at the party and they left and went home when they got there they saw that Tiffany's friend and
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her mother will were pulled into the driveway and they both jumped out of the car and apparently immediately started
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like getting upset and they were accusing Tiffany of taking her friend's debit card and using it without her
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permission okay so they were like basically coming to like tell mother like this is what happened uh Diane said
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that she remembers there was a lot of yelling so of course they grabbed Tiffany they were like what the hell's
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going on she denied it and said I didn't do any of it so after the friend and the
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mother ended up leaving cuz they were like we're going to let you guys handle this yeah Dian was like you know maybe
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you know they were in Tiffany's car together maybe this friend just just like drop the debit card in the car or
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something like let's go check your car and see if it's in some of the crevices or something that I can't even tell you
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how many [ __ ] times that's happened to me yes but as they were doing that she did catch Tiffany trying to hide the
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girl's credit card in her pocket okay so Diane was pissed because she was like you stole a girl's credit card what the
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hell or Li and you lied to me that was like the big like you just made me look crazy here like what the hell which like
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teen do this is really shitty teenage stuff but she was mad yeah um but she lectured her like basically like you
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know you can't do this that's horrible blah blah um and she said Tiffany seemed very remorseful and explained it was
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just like poor judgment like a moment of poor judgment I don't think she I don't
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think she really gave a good explanation like even her mom was like that explanation seemed very like
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half-hearted maybe there just wasn't one I feel like sometimes you do things when
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you're a teenager compl impulsivity yeah it's like who knows who knows if the the
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friend and her got into like a little spat argument right I'm not saying it's okay that she took her credit no
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obviously not I'm just saying like Teenage stuff sometimes doesn't make any rational sense whatsoever so Diane went
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back inside to get her husband cuz she was going to explain what had just happened yeah and they both went back
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outside to talk to Tiffany and Tiffany was gone she was just in the driveway and now she's not Diane said she was out
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by the car I walked inside to get my husband I only left her for 1 minute I walked back out and she wasn't there
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what yeah so this was strange to her parents Diane and Steve they were like what they were like she wouldn't have
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just left like she's not a kid who Stomps off in the night and goes and leaves that's just not what happened she
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was like and this argument wasn't like explosive it's not like they were like she's screaming and yelling and all that
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they were just she was like like what the hell like what's going on she's giving the explanation she like I don't
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know if I buy that I'm going to go talk to your dad yeah it wasn't anything crazy that she would like go running off
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into the wild blue yonder and even you think like she went to get the mother went to get the father and then they go
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back outside and she's gone like you I just picture them walking to the end of the driveway and like looking down the
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street and not seeing her anywhere she literally she was like Not only would she not have done that but I don't think
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she could have done that like she was like that fast I don't know how she would have left the property in the time
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it took me to get in and out like it was like shocking she was like I didn't stay
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in there for a like I got her father and brought him outside like she would have
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had to run right essentially um and again it was like an argument but it wasn't like this crazy heated argument
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and Tiffany had um a phobia of the dark like she was literally like had that phobia she couldn't handle the dark yeah
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and by the time they had returned from the party the sun had gone down completely it was dark mhm so she would
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not be walking into the darkness by herself and we'll get more into that later because like there was like
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coaches that knew this about her like everyone in her life knew that she could not be in the dark oh wow so they were
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like all of them were like she would not have walked out into the darkness it just wouldn't be something she could
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physically do like or emotionally do yeah so Diane and Stephen went back across the street to see if maybe she
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returned to the graduation party like went there yeah I could see them like thinking that no one at her cousin's
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house had seen Tiffany since she left the party earlier and then you just think that she like there's so much
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family and friends in this one Consolidated area and she just fing banished well and so they called her
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phone a bunch of times and nobody answered so they were like all right the only thing I can think of is that she
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left out of anger but like even though that doesn't make sense that's literally the only thing I can think of yeah so
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they called her sisters Jesse and Crystal and her uncle Michael Vante who was a former New Jersey straight Trooper
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okay to help find her they all split up they drove all around the neighborhood looking for her they didn't see her at
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all nowhere that doesn't make any sense and after 2 hours no sign of Tiffany so she had to have gotten in a car like
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very quickly it's like possibly abducted that's literally so a little after 11:00
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p.m. Stephen her father went back to the house and was walking up the driveway and he spotted something in a pile of
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leaves at the edge of the Vante property and he he lean down to look and it was Tiffany cell phone oh my stomach just
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flipped oh God Tiffany's cell phone in a pile of leaves at their home like right on the edge of their
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property yeah and he said he panicked immediately like alarm right away he said Tiffany never went anywhere without
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her cell phone no one does and Diane said she even brought a waterproof case so she could bring it into the shower
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like you know so when they found that they were like [ __ ] like what does that mean like what is going on within the
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half hour of finding that they reported her missing to the police now the family
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continued searching for Tiffany for several more hours but they found no sign of her besides that cell phone and
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as this is going on about four miles from their home officials from the New Jersey Transit Police had started uh
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Gathering to investigate an accident on the Atlantic City rail line according to
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the student engineer who was driving the train had been traveling to Atlantic City from Philadelphia at 80 mph and had
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just reached mile marker 45 when a pedestrian quote dove in front of the train from an east to west direction oh
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wow so at the time it was impossible to identify this person yeah the impact of the train had crushed her skull and
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destroyed any identifying features and also what they could see they were confused by because this victim was
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dressed only in underwear so they didn't have any identifying documentation like a
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driver's license or a student ID like they it was just this person they couldn't identify in their underwear
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like only underwear only underwear okay now because of this the individual was pronounced as a person that's all they
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could pronounce them as oh my God and the remains were removed from the scene and taken to the medical examiner's
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office and I say the remains cuz at this point they literally didn't know who this was like could not determine
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whether it was a woman a man a child anything like they couldn't figure out any of this wow and the accident was
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immediately believed to be a suicide okay so at the time the investigators didn't treat it like a crime
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scene that's not good we we've seen this before when they go in with a preconceived notion [ __ ] goes ay and
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that's when these kind of things go on for years why don't you just treat it like a crime until you are
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100% shown otherwise yeah because you can't just rule that out right off that I mean people stage things to look like
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suicides all the time and also what what a you know what a way to make sure this
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person and the marks that you inflicted upon them are not identified right throw
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them in front of a train they're not going to be able to tell anything that happened to them before that mhm like
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it's it absolutely would be a thing so why are you not even considering that uhhuh and they're in their
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underwear do you as strange a big strange so again they didn't treat it like a crime scene so things that would
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have ordinarily and obviously been collected as evidence like uh broken pieces of a charm bracelet that were
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scattered across the tracks were just left behind oh just the thought or handled carelessly the thought of that
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is so sad just like a charm bracelet yeah oh I hate that oh it's awful now in the early hours of the morning as the
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valiante family's concern is growing slowly growing into full-blown panic Michael Vante the uncle received a call
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from a former coworker asking him to come down to the medical examiner's office oh no when this person was
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discovered on the tracks New Jersey Transit officers contacted local police and they asked them are there any
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missing persons reports that have happened recently that's when they heard that Tiffany valiante had been reported
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missing so because of that investigators believe they were extending professional
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courtesy by contacting Michael first yeah instead of grabbing Diane and Steven first yeah I kind of get that I
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can understand that after speaking with Michael Vante and having him come down Transit Police quote determined that the
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remains were Tiffany what yeah so Diane said I remember a car pulling in and my brother-in-law got out of the back seat
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I heard him say Tiffany got hit by a train and my two kids were just screaming and my husband is screaming
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and I'm like what did you just say to me cuz like what how could you even Pro she
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was in the drive what are you talking about she was standing next to my car one minute she's gone and now she's got
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hit by a train TR like what are you talking about incredible shock and again they had just been celebrating Tiffany's
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graduation right like what the [ __ ] what do you mean so to make it all worse the
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investigators who relayed the news were unable to give any real details about what had happened at the moment um Diane
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said they just said she was hit by a train they didn't tell us anything else we thought she was in the car with
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someone that the car got hit like they're like they don't even know that she got physically hit by a train her
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person so the details the valiante family were seeking finally came the next morning but not from police or
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Transit Authority investigators but from the local press great yeah the article described
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how Tiffany was quote struck by a train after refusing to move when the conductor sounded its horn just to tell
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you ahead of time that will be disproven yeah and also somebody said they like she dove in front of the train which
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there's several stories wonder if she's thrown well there's several stories the student engineer tells and then
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eventually is found to be lying great uh cuz the sounding the horn thing no I guess we'll see about that okay um the
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authorities had labeled her death quote an apparent suicide and the News shocked
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everybody including the vantes who couldn't understand why the [ __ ] the Press was reporting Tiffany's death as a
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suicide within hours of it happening and Diane said my husband called the paper up to tell them that was wrong but cuz
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of course they don't they're like this must be so hard to hear process anything yet and the Press is like goess what
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yeah and so they called the transit police and they confirmed that less than 24 hours after Tiffany had died and
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without any consideration of any alternative explanations it was just labeled to Suicide that was the end they
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didn't investigate at all okay so the new came to Tiffany's friends as very bewildering as well they had never seen
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any indication of depression or potential self harm which of course we know sometimes that happens so that's
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not like a total perfect indication of what's going on with somebody a lot of I mean I think we just covered one
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recently where you know somebody said they were acting totally fine the day before and like why why would why they
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do that right I think it's just one of those things but you absolutely can like at least take them as like at their word
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that like they she didn't show any indication right uh her friend said she had everything going for her and she did
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because she received a volleyball scholarship to Mercy College in New York she'd already connected with her future
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roommate there like they had already started bonding MH uh she'd made a long list of summer plans with friends and
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family and what from what they could see she didn't have a personal history that
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you would expect to see in a teen who has contemplated suicide yeah uh she didn't have a history of mental illness
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she had a large support system of family and friends she did have tension with her parents she was a teenager name a
00:19:40
teenager that doesn't and like you know she didn't have like that it sounds like
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you know they they were in a rough patch their relationship which again not an indication that like not a total perfect
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like confirmation this is why it would happen um but Diane and Steven said they couldn't think of anything that would
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explain a suicide either no which again we all know it's one of those things sometimes it does happen when no one can
00:20:05
see it but it does sound like in this case this sounds like definitely no indication like outwardly that this was
00:20:12
happening right and it sounds like shady [ __ ] is coming well that's and also what
00:20:16
you're going to see too is like people had different interpretations of what went on okay so it's like there's that
00:20:23
to consider as well but again there's really to me there's no concrete evidence of suicide here okay there's
00:20:30
circumstantial for sure right but there's also circumstantial evidence to at least entertain the idea that there
00:20:37
was Foul Play here yeah I think there's there's evidence to be set on both sides
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and there's evidence against both sides and that's why everything should just be
00:20:44
investigated that's why I think it just needs to be like because it was mishandled and you'll see how much it
00:20:50
nobody can deny this was mishandled but again as Dr Michelle Scott who was a professor at Monmouth University told
00:20:57
reporters after the death she was basically saying what we were saying she said well everything may look fine on
00:21:04
the outside there could be an internal struggle going on that no one knows about and she mentioned times of
00:21:10
transition such as the end of high school or the end of the school year can trigger depression issues and sometimes
00:21:16
kids can act rationally absolutely true but again she wasn't going off into like
00:21:22
the wild blue yonder without a plan without some bonds forming like you know she she had a scholarship that's a big
00:21:29
deal she liked playing sports so she was going to be able to play more Sports at
00:21:32
a high higher level right she was going to a university she was excited about had plans to set criminal justice she
00:21:38
had already connected with that roommate like she was she was going forth you know yeah and again as like people will
00:21:46
mention like there was a strained relationship in the house and like things were a little tense okay sure
00:21:52
maybe like I'm not I wasn't there but she was going to be going to college yeah so if there was there was
00:21:59
going to college you know like yeah but again it's it's really hard to say to understand what people are going through
00:22:07
when you're not in their head MH now like I said even though it seemed like everything was fine she was at least
00:22:13
dealing with a little bit of that emotional upset like the strained relationships uh years later in a
00:22:18
deposition one of Tiffany's friends said she had recently come out to her parents
00:22:23
okay and while they say they were generally supportive of her the friend believed things may have been more
00:22:27
strained than usual in recent weeks okay um her uncle Michael also stated that there was at least some turmoil
00:22:36
happening you know in the house or in her life leading up to that nothing Earth shattering just she wasn't like
00:22:44
the happiest go luckiest in the weeks leading up to this CU she had some stuff going on yeah um in his statement to the
00:22:51
New Jersey State Police which he gave in the early morning hours after her death
00:22:56
he told the detective that Tiffany quote had gotten into some trouble the day before as well as well as the day of her
00:23:02
graduation party and her friend stated that she had quote cut herself and was extremely upset okay so she that is like
00:23:11
history of self harm yes but he also reported that Tiffany's relationship with her parents again was um kind of
00:23:19
had had some tension and that she quote was extremely dist distraught over some of the things that had happened I want
00:23:27
you to take all that but hold on to it okay because it's not exactly what it seems okay yeah so four
00:23:34
days after Tiffany's death investigators brought in blood hounds to track Tiffany
00:23:39
scent in an effort to find any additional details I mean again she was found in her underwear she didn't leave
00:23:45
in her underwear yeah and where I mean where's her clothing exactly so the hounds traced her path from the
00:23:51
valiant's driveway and May's Landing along the rocky overgrown wooded area along the train tracks and then the
00:23:58
trail ended in the remote area of woods where she ultimately died um and despite
00:24:04
having walked the entire route Tiffany supposedly took that night they were unable to locate any of her belongings
00:24:12
including her shoes her shorts anything well that doesn't make any sense and the
00:24:17
investigators felt that the dogs had confirmed their belief that she had become distraught and left the house
00:24:21
after fighting with her mother and eventually found herself standing at the tracks that's how they took it okay
00:24:27
again I'm a little confused especially with ph where is her clothes in the phobia of the darkness like walking in
00:24:33
the middle of the woods exactly in New in New Jersey yeah that's some densely wooded areas and it's like pitch black
00:24:42
yeah now based on the statement taken from Michael valiante and the description of the accident provided by
00:24:48
the student engineer driving the Train the medical examiner labeled the death of suicide and closed the case 5 days
00:24:56
later Diane and Steven had Tiffany's remains cremated oh which Diane did later say was the quote worst decision
00:25:03
of her life oh but she said at the time she quote just assume the investigators did what they were supposed to do I mean
00:25:09
yeah why wouldn't you assume that yeah we like to believe that know they're supposed to do what they what they do
00:25:17
but my goodness oh it made it made their lives a lot harder well I can't imagine
00:25:22
having to even make that decision of what to do with your child's remains you would never feel like you made the right
00:25:27
decision remains that are not in great condition right it's not like you're going to be
00:25:33
able to have an open casket funeral it's not like you're you know I'm sure that played in that might have played into it
00:25:39
you know I was wondering that myself yeah I don't want this isn't who she was kind of thing yeah so the vantes held a
00:25:47
memorial mass for Tiffany on July 20th and everyone assumed that you know that the case was closed we just grieve now
00:25:55
but the natural process of grieving kept getting interrupted did because so many
00:25:59
questions kept popping up and weird inconsistencies are popping up aside from their disbelief that Tiffany would
00:26:07
even have contemplated much less completed suicide there was a lot of strange aspects of the case that they
00:26:13
just couldn't figure out they were like this just isn't it's not all fitting into the pieces here the biggest one
00:26:20
being where the [ __ ] are her clothes exactly do those get found yes okay so for one when she disappeared from the
00:26:28
house that night we're talking about the clothes now she had been wearing a shirt
00:26:32
shorts new shoes and a headband but when she was struck by the train she was only
00:26:37
in her underwear and investigators eventually after more searching did find her shirt in the woods nearby but only
00:26:46
her shirt they found her shirt next to are you ready an axe with red markings oh what the
00:26:56
[ __ ] yep yep a an axe with red markings on it what I I'm not kidding you I have
00:27:07
Goosebumps all over my entire body right now like my legs have Goosebumps what the [ __ ] we're going to get back to that
00:27:13
so don't worry hold on to that one too and this is why you can't just take the suicide face value no and only her shirt
00:27:21
so where's her shoes shorts and headband we'll find those too what the [ __ ] so it
00:27:27
was wasn't just the missing evidence and what they believed was investigators complete unwillingness to consider
00:27:33
alternatives that gave the vantes some pause here it was also that the facts were not looking to support
00:27:41
investigators conclusions it looked like the other way around very much so according yeah according to her sister
00:27:48
Jesse the family found it impossible to believe that late on a summer night she would suddenly leave a family gathering
00:27:55
discard her cell phone walk from our family's home this is a quote in maze Landing more than 4 miles to a remote
00:28:03
thickly wooded section of railroad tracks and along the way remove her jean shorts headband and sneakers before
00:28:09
stepping onto the tracks and in front of a train traveling at 80 mph that doesn't
00:28:13
make any sense like when you really lay it out like that you're like so what like it's the clothes for me like I I
00:28:20
just feel like God forbid if she was going to end her life why would she undress first I people do
00:28:28
for sure things at the end of their life that are hard to explain that's why this
00:28:32
is so confusing yeah because you can really look at either side of this and you can say yeah you can't discount
00:28:43
suicide you can't but you also can't discount that there was Foul Play here because then you go to the axe with the
00:28:50
with the red markings on it next to her shirt you you have to see both sides of at least I can plainly see that there's
00:28:58
not significant evidence to say that this is totally a suicide yeah no but there's not significant evidence to say
00:29:04
the other side but there's significant evidence to question both of those things yes 100% And to open again and
00:29:11
really take a look but as we'll see mishandled now Not only was the behavior itself outside of character for Tiffany
00:29:19
whose toxicology report showed no signs of drug or alcohol in her system but the
00:29:24
time of day that she disappeared again made it more unbelievable like we've been saying her fear of the dark
00:29:31
according to Diane it was so severe that she was quote petrified of the dark and
00:29:36
would normally never Venture anywhere alone at night especially not the middle of the [ __ ] Woods exactly and other
00:29:42
family and friends also said that time of day was just they were like she had a crippling fear of the dark it wasn't
00:29:49
like I don't like the dark it was a crippling fear and um Allison Walker who coached Tiffany's Junior travel
00:29:56
volleyball team said it's just not the Tiffany I knew Tiffany was deathly Afraid of the Dark had to have the TV on
00:30:02
if the room was dark the thought of her choosing to walk through not just the dark alone but a dark wooded area alone
00:30:09
never in my wildest dreams would that happen no that's the thing and in the weeks following their daughter's death
00:30:15
Diane took to started going on like long walks just trying to clear her head of course you know grieving trying to
00:30:21
grieve any way she could right it was during one of these walks through the woods don't you dare even tell me that
00:30:28
she found her daughter's clothing and this is the thing it was she was it was the woods leading towards the tracks
00:30:33
because she would go on this like walk probably just to you know maybe try to get in her heads space too in Tiffany's
00:30:40
head space she spotted something under a tree set back about a dozen feet from the tracks when she got closer she found
00:30:47
Tiffany's shoes she said they were quote neatly lined up as though they've been placed
00:30:53
there carefully she also found her headband a large keychain like those usually affixed to rental car keys and a
00:31:02
sweatshirt she'd never seen before what the [ __ ] and the fact that investigators
00:31:07
searched this area yeah and didn't see that which means possibly two things one they didn't investigate well enough
00:31:15
because those things were always there or two Somebody went back and put them there exactly and either way [ __ ]
00:31:22
weird and the location was not along the Route the blood hounds had traced weeks
00:31:27
earlier and it was well over a mile from where Tiffany had been struck by the train so that makes no sense yeah that
00:31:34
would mean she'd have to take her headband and shoes off and whose keychain is that and whose sweatshirt
00:31:40
sweatshirt yep and yeah so when the med I'm sorry I'm dumbfounded yeah and it gets Wilder
00:31:49
how even so when the medical examiner performed his valuation of Tiffany's remains there was no mention of her feet
00:31:55
being super dirty or having SU ained any injuries which you would think they would if she was walking barefoot
00:32:01
through the [ __ ] would had to walk almost two almost two miles bare feet through the woods you're going to get
00:32:07
cut and that's over Rocky dirty terrain to get where she was at the train so Diane called her husband who called the
00:32:14
state police and directed them to the location to get the evidence smart of her to not even touch that and the
00:32:20
couple assumed the discovery of new evidence that completely contradicted the early conclusion of suicide would
00:32:26
finally lead to a full investig of what happened to their daughter I think anyone with any kind of gray
00:32:32
matter between their ears would probably feel the same are you ready to get really angry
00:32:37
yeah so they're like cool we're going to get an investigation now cuz what the [ __ ] whose [ __ ] is this like what's
00:32:44
going on before the evidence could be analyzed Transit detectives misplaced the keychain oh and they misplaced the axe
00:32:53
don't know where it went and they have never been found that is the most negligent [ __ ] there is
00:33:02
a possible this woman got this young woman got hit by a train she had her skull crushed by a train
00:33:11
supposedly and there's an axe found with red markings on it and before you can test that axe it gets
00:33:18
misplaced and then so the a that would that train would have covered up any Blow from an axe yeah 100% so the axe
00:33:27
went missing and the keychain and the keyy chain that she didn't know where that key chain was what about the
00:33:31
sweatshirt I have no idea what well they also ended up finding Tiffany's shirt on one along the
00:33:40
Route and it had just been put in a knotted plastic bag when it was collected like when they collected it
00:33:48
instead of putting it in an actual evidence container in that knotted plastic bag that The investigators just
00:33:54
threw it into had grown mold due to improper handling and was deemed completely untestable what's going on here yeah I
00:34:04
don't know how any I understand why people have ideas about what they think happened here because obviously but like
00:34:11
you got to at least question this stuff like what that's some shady [ __ ] going
00:34:15
on cuz even if you think it was a suicide it's like but what's going on here like what how do you how I don't
00:34:23
know how you misplace an axe that's what I don't that's a big problem for me that's a big problem for me I've lost a
00:34:28
lot of things in my life never 10 fingers up everybody right go never have I ever lost an ax I've never done that
00:34:36
and I'm willing to bet not many of you put a finger down well in the poor Vante family this is could have been vital
00:34:43
evidence of course and what a [ __ ] disappointment they found it and to hear that it was just mishandled and
00:34:51
lost like that would leave such a bad feeling in my gut and so while the evidence may have gone missing
00:34:57
statements taken from the student engineer about the night of Tiffany's death remains oh this [ __ ] and
00:35:02
as far as the vantes were concerned they're they only confirmed their suspicion that somebody something
00:35:08
somebody was hiding something yeah because in his initial statement to the Transit Police the student engineer told
00:35:14
the detective quote as he approached mile marker 45 The Pedestrian dove in front of the train now this would imply
00:35:22
that Tiffany jumped in front of the train which gave the train no time to stop yeah because she just dove in front
00:35:28
of it uhhuh but then in later interviews the student engineer described Tiffany as standing on the tracks those are two
00:35:36
very different things very different things also he told detectives he'd seen Tiffany quote jump or dive a distance of
00:35:43
15 to 20 ft from a standing position is that possible like either way those are three very
00:35:52
different things and he said those allinone sitting or at different times different times okay but when
00:35:57
investigators examined the area from which she supposedly jumped they found it was covered with trees and a builtup
00:36:04
stone Railway grade which would have made jumping very difficult uhhuh finally the student engineer said he
00:36:11
sounded the Train's horn multiple times before the impact but Tiffany didn't make any attempt to move but
00:36:18
investigators checked the Train's uh blackbox that it has uh-oh it showed that the horn had
00:36:25
not been used at all not at all he said several times and she didn't move not once why would you lie about
00:36:32
that it's like they didn't teach you in train school that there's a black box that if you say the horn sounded not
00:36:38
train school not when you say the horn sounded they can go check and see if the horn sounded like you're going to get
00:36:44
caught myad I actually didn't even know that like you should know that as a student engineer I feel like that's like
00:36:49
student engineer 101 is like here's a black box I feel train School am I right like train school so what's that about
00:36:58
did she dive in front of the train and you couldn't stop was she standing on the tracks and refused to move right or
00:37:06
was she standing and then Dove 15 to 20 ft and also did you Sound the Horn no you didn't cuz we've already checked so
00:37:14
what happened student engineer I don't what I'm so confused but the final pieces of compelling
00:37:23
evidence collected by the vantes and the weeks after Tiffany died were the most haunting I would say Oh no just moments
00:37:32
after Diane went inside to get her husband after she had the the argument with Tiffany yeah a hunter's trap camera
00:37:39
captured an image of Tiffany walking down the driveway phone in hand phone in hand and when Diane came out of the
00:37:46
house just seconds later her daughter was gone and there was no sign of her in either direction that camera caught her
00:37:53
walking to the end of the driveway with her phone and her mom came out a minute later and she was gone so it she had to
00:38:00
have gotten in a car right well it says when they retrieved the cell phone data from the carrier it showed that A call
00:38:06
came into to the phone about a half hour after Tiffany disappeared and it was answered which would she have died by
00:38:15
that point well later the phone was discovered at the edge of the valiente's property so she there's no how could
00:38:21
Tiffany have answered the phone right if the phone was several miles from where she was at that point the phone was back
00:38:30
at the Vante property when she was already at the train tracks how did someone answer the phone
00:38:38
unless that phone was put therea you wish they knew like who called so they could say like was it Tiffany that I
00:38:46
mean obviously it's not Tiffany that answered so who the like was it a man's voice was it a woman's voice it's such a
00:38:54
mystery like how did all of this and when you look it up the the camera like the photo is very haunting I yeah I bet
00:39:04
so because Tiffany's cause of death had been Li listed as a suicide and no one had been able to provide like solid
00:39:11
evidence to argue otherwise oh I just looked up that picture state and local authorities had no reason to reopen the
00:39:19
case according to them and further investigate which I don't know about that but right after a year of just
00:39:24
frustration grief and unanswered questions Diane and Steven valiante finally decided to take action in order
00:39:31
to compel the medical examiner's office to just change the cause of death right they just wanted it change from suicide
00:39:38
to undetermined that's all they were because if they did that then it would allow the case to be reopened but
00:39:44
because they were refusing to do anything they couldn't reopen it right so in July 2016 the valant reached out
00:39:52
to the damato law firm which was a local agency who agreed to take the case probone no actually and in a statement
00:39:59
to the Press Paul damato said we looked at all her medical records there wasn't any suggestion of any alcohol problems
00:40:06
drug problems or depression and he said the state's inquiries was flawed it was unprofessional uninformed and it relied
00:40:13
on equally superficial investigative efforts by New Jersey Transit the medical examiner's finding regarding
00:40:19
manner of death issued only 5 days after the incident should unquestionably be retracted and nullified I mean yeah now
00:40:28
usually for like civil law lawsuits are usually for financial compensation that's usually the endgame but the
00:40:34
vantes were not looking for a [ __ ] dime yeah they just wanted this change so they could reopen the case that's all
00:40:42
they were looking for here and also by filing the suit damato would cause to subpoena any records and evidence
00:40:49
related to the incident and for new interviews to be conducted for any investigators anything anybody that was
00:40:55
overlooked so this kind of helped like get it going without get it going kind of thing like it was like once you open
00:41:02
the lawsuit you kind of have to dig into the case a little bit um he said we believe there are people out there who
00:41:07
know something including several people who were not interviewed by New Jersey Transit so that's weird so the first
00:41:14
lawsuit which was filed against the medical examiner's office and then a few other state agencies that were first
00:41:20
involved in the initial investigation claimed a lot of things but one of the things it claimed was Tiffany valiante
00:41:26
did not take her life but that she was the victim of a conspiracy to inflict bodily harm violently abducted on the
00:41:33
night of July 12th 2015 and subsequently murdered the vantes believe that instead
00:41:39
of what they were like investigators were saying that she jumped out in front of the train as authorities were saying
00:41:45
she was kidnapped from the front yard murdered and her killer had hid his crime by hurling her in the path of an
00:41:51
oncoming locomotive I can see why people might think that which is UN it's believe
00:41:57
it is believable like this is not out of the realm of of possibility not at all and again if it's not out of the realm
00:42:04
of possibility and there are things that you can match up with this that's cause
00:42:10
enough for me to open it back up absolutely there is so a year later when the case still hadn't reached the court
00:42:17
damato amended the lawsuit removing the various state agencies and instead filing the claim against male Do's 1 to5
00:42:25
and female Do's 1 to5 their names are kind of like erroneous here so just a bunch of people like specific people uh
00:42:34
while the complaint itself remained like pretty much intact and it relied on the
00:42:38
same complaints and circumstantial evidence that the family had ra raised pre previously it also had some new
00:42:44
statements including testimony from Louise Housman who was a former medical investigator for the Atlantic County
00:42:51
Medical examiner's Office okay Housman was brought in to review all the information collected and she did mhm um
00:42:58
and anything that the family had collected in the two years since Tiffany's death and after carefully
00:43:03
considering the evidence she concluded quote there are enough unanswered questions false statements conflicting
00:43:09
accounts regarding this fatality an incomplete investigative information which leads me to the conclusion that
00:43:15
the death certificate should be amended from suicide to undetermined absolutely now while housman's evaluation pointed
00:43:22
to the evidence the inconsistencies you know other previously mentioned unusual aspects of
00:43:28
this whole case as reason enough to reopen the investigation she also noted that the medical examiner's assessment
00:43:34
of the circumstances of the death included quote inaccurate un unsubstantiated and false
00:43:41
information this false information and unsubstantiated information included various statements attributed to several
00:43:48
of Tiffany's friends and her uncle I was waiting for that to come back which were
00:43:53
used to justify the ter determination of suicide all those parties claimed they never made those statements or that they
00:44:00
were yeah what the [ __ ] or that they were taken and twisted uh what for example the case
00:44:09
File from New Jersey Transit which included several statements about Tiffany's supposedly distraught mental
00:44:15
state by her uncle Michael Vante he claims he never made them how are they just like yep I'm like
00:44:24
did you guys think that this it wasn't going to get out what you report and her uncle wasn't going to be like yeah I
00:44:28
didn't [ __ ] say that no they probably didn't care cuz look nothing's happen I don't know how people can be
00:44:36
such [ __ ] I really don't especially when it comes to like somebody's life and like this family losing their young
00:44:43
teenage daughter just going off to college like the prime of her entire life well and those those statements
00:44:49
about her self Haring that you were like that's the history of nope he never W and they also weren't support supported
00:44:56
by any physical evidence on her body are you kidding me that's a [ __ ] up thing to lie about yeah and in a
00:45:05
statement to the Press Houseman told a reporter within 36 hours the medical examiner determined this to be a suicide
00:45:11
without any information on her medical history without anybody talking to the family there was no investigative done
00:45:18
to this and she in in most cases or in some many cases when somebody takes their own life investigators will
00:45:25
conduct what's called a psycholog iCal autopsy okay uh they work with the family the individual's medical team you
00:45:31
know Mental Health Providers to determine what could have been the circumstances or reasons just part of
00:45:37
the process yeah and that did not happen here the medical examiner totally skipped this step and instead just
00:45:43
relied on his misunderstanding of statements from Tiffany's uncle and friends all of whom at the time were in
00:45:49
like a State of Shock at this moment had no idea what was going on and just didn't even say the things they are
00:45:56
claiming they didn't even say these things like there should have been some deeper digging at the very least this is
00:46:03
so [ __ ] shady yeah so in December news of the lawsuit had reached beyond the local press and this case was
00:46:10
featured in a massive expose on the state's medical examiner system and in the article which included a lot of
00:46:18
cases because they were really digging in for this the reporters point to a long list of really shocking
00:46:24
shortcomings and flat out failure on the part of the New Jersey medical examiner's office oh no uh body parts
00:46:31
going missing I'm sorry what quote decomposing bodies stacked two to a gurnie in countless unanswered questions
00:46:40
that make it so family members don't have any [ __ ] clue how their family died family member died so has this
00:46:46
office been shut down um so also just as like a quick side note because it's just reminded me of it if
00:46:53
you guys aren't watching listening to Noble this podcast she just recommended it to me today I'm going to start it on
00:46:59
my way called Noble go listen to it it's fascinating it's shocking it's horrifying uh and really well done it
00:47:05
immediately reminded me the same think of it so the report on the medical examiner office supported what dumato in
00:47:10
the vantes had come to believe that even if this is like limited resources or overworked staff the state was really
00:47:20
LAX on their investigating of Tiffany's death and in this situation they probably rushed to the conclusion just
00:47:26
to move the case from open to closed get it off their things I mean if they've got decomposing bodies in a room and
00:47:34
like decomposing bodies stack two to a gurnie missing body parts yeah someone being found on a train track and a
00:47:41
student engineer claiming that they dove in front of it get it off our desk they
00:47:47
probably just whoop that I'm just in a state of absolute bewilderment right now yeah so a few months after filing their
00:47:54
amended case with the Superior Court damato added additional supporting documentation including a statement from
00:48:00
Dr Donald Jason Dr Donald Jason was an independent forensic pathologist hired by the vantes to review the case Okay Dr
00:48:09
Jason remove reviewed the material related to the death and he said yeah he said the bias towards suicide negatively
00:48:17
affected the way in which the scene was processed by all members of the team both responding police and medical
00:48:23
examiner staff and he said this was contrary to the standard approach to investigation that dictates
00:48:30
investigators treat the location as a crime scene until it's determined to be otherwise right totally contradictory to
00:48:37
that and after reviewing the information Dr Jason concluded the story that the vi
00:48:42
victim jumped onto the tracks is suspicious the victim may have been sleeping or already dead when the when
00:48:48
struck by the train why did they say that because they were saying that's a possibility oh okay simply put as far as
00:48:55
Dr Jason could tell the medical was way too quick to label this death of suicide
00:49:00
without first ruling out other possibilities which they did not do they didn't rule out anything else he
00:49:07
actually said quote I've never seen another case mishandled like this WOW which is something and it's literally
00:49:15
like a young girl like and this this story going public and the Valiant you know putting pressure on this case it
00:49:25
put a lot of pressure on the medical examiner's office and they finally agreed to reevaluate the case good but
00:49:32
but what are they going to do and it's the same it's the same office think they're going shortcoming two
00:49:38
unfortunately her body has been cremated so it's not like you can even exume the
00:49:42
body and no but they can look back at all the the reports that they have and the pictures and the everything but it's
00:49:50
it's the same office you think they're going to come back and be like wow we really did [ __ ] this but like I hate
00:49:55
when they do that I'm like bring it some else can another office take it over like is that but you're right The
00:50:00
Cremation makes it so difficult because it's like you have to rely now on what this office documented right and of
00:50:08
course they found that the initial finding of suicide was appropriate and they we're not going to change it [ __ ]
00:50:13
that incorrect yeah so yeah so the problem with the civil suit that the vantes had against the state and the
00:50:23
amended suit is that like they they so they're alleging that crimes have been committed kidnapping and murder which we
00:50:31
know it could possibly be that but there's no solid evidence to support that and the theory wasn't really
00:50:40
expanded upon in these suits in a good way there is some evidence to support that like the phone
00:50:47
being there's evidence that's the thing like there is evidence right but it's like circumstantial it's like they can't
00:50:55
pinpoint it to any person person or any theory of like who this is or why this happened it's I'm so [ __ ] angry that
00:51:04
they lost quote unquote lost that axe well and that's the thing it's like and I'm not this is I'm not saying like they
00:51:11
don't have compelling evidence I'm saying the suit did not argue the evidence okay enough to make a
00:51:18
compelling argument for it so and it's like that's frustrating because like they do there could be a compelling
00:51:25
narrative here yeah um like the biggest one for me is she's found in only her underwear so to me that looks like there
00:51:33
was sexual assault here or something awful and especially with her clothes being scattered in different areas
00:51:39
within like a mile of the sight all over the place like and yeah but the in the impact of the train had caused
00:51:46
considerable damage which hid any you know premortem trauma so it's like you don't
00:51:55
have that to go on either and it's like if they still had the axe they could have tested the axe they could have
00:52:01
looked up pictures and matched it up with pictures seing what yeah I'm wondering too about that sweatshirt I'm
00:52:06
like was DNA testing done on that sweatshirt at all to see if any of Tiff DNA was on that or done maybe somebody
00:52:12
in the systems [ __ ] DNA also what's even more frustrating because again found in her underwear where's the rape
00:52:18
kit yeah never conducted a rape kit or even considered conducting a rape kit could they have in the condition that
00:52:25
her body was they could have absolutely why didn't and now they can't ever do that now they can't but the best diato
00:52:32
and the vantes could argue was that the location that the investigators discovered some of Tiffany's belongings
00:52:38
in along with the axe was also a known party spot with a local fraternity house that itself does not tell you anything
00:52:47
because I'm not labeling fraternities as like they're the problem but this particular one was under investigation
00:52:53
for past sexual assaults dude so that is suspicious uhhuh and also after Tiffany's death a local Wawa
00:53:04
employee told investigators he quote overheard a group of teenage boys talking about Tiffany having been
00:53:11
kidnapped at gunpoint humiliated forced to strip down to her underwear and driven to the train station by her
00:53:22
abductors oh but they L they said it was circum substantial and unsubstantiated can you try to
00:53:30
substanti that's the thing can you go [ __ ] interview some people that's pretty on the nose start asking people
00:53:37
in that area if they I mean somebody must have seen something and somebody oh if that's true somebody out there has a
00:53:44
guilty conscience and they better come forward and say some [ __ ] because if that actually happened somebody there
00:53:51
felt like that was wrong there's you can't tell me that everybody in that room was okay with that if that did
00:53:56
happen yeah so come on forward it's your time to shine and like we said the suicide theory is supported by equally
00:54:05
circumstantial evidence it's not like the suicide theory has the solid evidence and the other Theory doesn't
00:54:11
have any no there's evidence on both sides as like you know like it's just I don't even know I feel like for me at
00:54:18
least I feel like the other side the foul play side has play has way more AB it really does I agree cuz really the
00:54:25
only evidence for suicide in in my mind is she was in a little bit of trouble and perhaps there was turmoil at home
00:54:34
but nobody even really knows if there was turmoil at home because it sounds like people's statements were taken out
00:54:39
of context there was some there was some stuff at home the the mother and um Diane and Tiffany had to be ordered to
00:54:47
go to therapy together at one point so they're definitely was not like so there's turmoil at home it wasn't
00:54:53
rainbows and butterflies but like whose house is yeah but so there's turmoil at home she just got in trouble you know
00:54:59
like just finished high school I guess so that is like that's the thing there's like there is that that was it's not
00:55:05
like everything was um but different places but I feel like there's a way longer list on the
00:55:12
side of f play and that's why it's so hard and who knows I mean like you hope that that wa and play didn't make that
00:55:20
up but like that's a crazy [ __ ] statement it's wild and it fits perfectly but who knows like you never
00:55:27
know when certain details about the kid came out they leaked all that that's the
00:55:30
thing you can go back and forth on this but that is weird yeah and I feel like we've given you two of these in a row
00:55:37
actually I just thought of that where it's like you can go on either side and at least put some evidence on either
00:55:43
side I feel like with this one honestly there's like more well that's the thing I feel like with both of them I lean
00:55:50
more to one side but I can't can't completely decide conclusively say what way I lean completely I really hope both
00:55:58
of these cases get solved now I'm like so in these parent it's been almost 10 years and they don't have any it just
00:56:04
doesn't feel like suicide to me it really doesn't it doesn't feel like suicide to me no and if it is prove it
00:56:13
that's the thing like prove it you're not proving it you're not proving it I just feel like people it doesn't sound
00:56:19
like anyone was interviewed ever like was anyone spoken to other than like a couple friends in her un whose
00:56:26
statements were taken out of context or just completely fabricated yeah it just doesn't they to like the coaches and
00:56:33
stuff and like people who knew her who who all agreed she wouldn't have gone wandering into the dark that was one of
00:56:38
the biggest that's the thing things and then like why didn't anybody I'm who's to say maybe they did or maybe they
00:56:44
didn't but like did anybody go to that frat house and interview some frat brothers just I mean not because like
00:56:51
it's a frat house but because under investigation and then that WWA employees yeah
00:56:57
statement well the problem was too that investigators mishandled this case so badly that evidence was destroyed yeah
00:57:07
and completely completely [ __ ] lost yeah I don't know how you lose an axe I really don't I don't either but we see
00:57:14
that all the time that they'll be like oh yeah we lost it and it's like how the [ __ ] does that happen cuz it's always
00:57:19
something that would like probably prove one way or another and it's like huh well unfortunately the lawsuits were
00:57:26
pretty unsuccessful in getting the death certificates changed but in the years since Tiffany's death Diane and Steven
00:57:32
Vante have pressed on they want to find out the truth and in 2019 damato filed another lawsuit so he's still on it good
00:57:42
this time against New Jersey Transit and demanded that they share any physical evidence that they could that would help
00:57:48
determine what happened on the night of Tiffany's death I wonder if there still is any the process was super slow but
00:57:54
eventually they did get access to the physical evidence including so there is which I didn't even know about this
00:57:59
until the end of this case including a Blood Stained towel and a t-shirt so you would go wow I wonder
00:58:09
what's going to happen when they test that well they sent it to an independent lab for testing and the lab determined
00:58:16
that the items had been so mishandled that they were of no scientific probative value no I'm so mad right now according
00:58:27
according to the lab the items had been improperly stored in plastic containers which allowed for moisture inducing
00:58:34
bacterial contamination that made the evidence of no investigatory value who the [ __ ] is part of this chain of you
00:58:42
got be who the [ __ ] cuz this happens twice a big ding bull of stupid ding to be part of an investigatory team at a
00:58:52
[ __ ] scene of a death and not know how to properly store evidence where the [ __ ] were you on that day in the academy
00:59:01
because that's insane how how to store evidence so that it doesn't get eaten up by bacteria how
00:59:09
the [ __ ] do you not know that and also it already [ __ ] happened once so you would think that you would literally
00:59:14
especially on the same [ __ ] case you wouldn't make that mistake again all of the evidence for this case was
00:59:19
completely unusable and that's weird and that doesn't happen it's at least at the
00:59:24
very least it's fu supect and you should look back into this at the very [ __ ] least but then
00:59:31
it's like what do you do because there's no evidence I know like all of it's contaminated or [ __ ] lost well and in
00:59:37
2022 her uh Tiffany's case appeared on Netflix's Unsolved Mysteries I saw that yeah um Diane restated her belief that
00:59:46
there was Foul Play here I think there was and the family also increased the reward for information leading
00:59:51
prosecution to $40,000 wow it's still uncollected to this day and the evidence the episode of
00:59:58
Unsolved Mysteries didn't didn't really bring in any new information but it did raise awareness of this case which is
01:00:06
important Steven her father said it opened a lot of people's eyes everybody heard this knit bit little piece here
01:00:12
little piece there but they never knew the whole story until they watched it meanwhile the vantes are continuing to
01:00:19
work with Paul damato which I was like this guy that guy in the hopes of finding new information that's going to
01:00:24
lead to any answer they just want a definitive answer I hope he helps them get it cuz he seems determined as [ __ ]
01:00:32
damato said I have a strong belief that something is going to break this year I truly do that's what he told in 2023 but
01:00:40
as of yet it has not broken but we are only in 2024 guys like if you know [ __ ]
01:00:48
anything I mean and again they just want to know they just want to know they believe she was met with Foul Play there
01:00:56
is evidence to believe that right there is circumstantial evidence for suicide I
01:01:01
can understand that yeah they just want to know and if there's evidence for Foul
01:01:07
Play which to me there's plenty why are we not investigating this further we just want to you just got to
01:01:15
know CU if if this is Foul Play Somebody got away with it or some buddies got away with it and why are we just letting
01:01:22
that happen and that's just going to make them more bold bold to do this again yeah wow this stressed me out I feel for
01:01:32
this family I bad for this family I feel for it all and it's also you're that's the community that you're living in and
01:01:39
you put your faith and you put your trust in law enforcement in the community that you're in and so
01:01:45
mishandled it was compl like I'd be so angry and I'm sure that I'm I can't imagine how angry they are I hope a lot
01:01:51
of people got slapped with a lot of uh demotion and firings after this cuz it's like probably not how do you mishandle
01:01:59
evidence like that how do you lose an axe how do you mishandle every bit of evidence like that like that's what I
01:02:05
don't get something's got to give here I yeah I hope that he was on to something when
01:02:11
he said like he think something was going to break in 2023 and it's just taken a little longer let put it out
01:02:15
there cuz you know guys let's sometimes we'll cover a case and something will happen it's this like weird thing that
01:02:23
we were talking about it recently Universe let's get it solved Universe let's go and we're not taking credit for
01:02:28
any of those anybody obviously not if you think if you think that go no it's just sometimes the universe works in
01:02:35
mysterious ways yeah The Vibes are out there let's I I want this family to know what the [ __ ] happened yes I just want
01:02:42
that for them so hopefully more knowledge of this case is Is What It Takes tell your friends about the case
01:02:51
ex sh this share that episode watch the Netflix know someone in New Jersey talk to them see see what they know you
01:02:58
know this is weird yeah so that's the mysterious death of Tiffany valiante and it's a sad one I had heard
01:03:05
of that but I did not know all of the details and I'm shocked I'm in a state of absolute shock right now I just
01:03:12
really I just want answers man I really do and her family deserves them want it so with that being said we hope you keep
01:03:21
listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that if you have about this case you don't come forward because
01:03:27
guess what that's wrong and karma's going to get you so if you have information about the case you better
01:03:31
come forward you little poop hell yeah I just spit across the room it was gross [Music]
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[Music] [Music]