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Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. >> And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid [Music] for a second time recording the same
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episode. >> Oh, you guys. Nothing's worse. >> Nothing's worse. We know. >> Nothing in the whole world. In the whole
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galaxy. So many things are a lot worse. But >> we recorded the entire episode. >> Yeah.
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>> And right after we said, "Huh, that was a good episode." And then we said, "Oh
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no." >> Or not. >> My mic was unplugged. >> Yeah. It was a collective Pod Lab mistake because we were all cleaning the
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Pod Lab and your microphone got unplugged and none of us replugged it in. So >> none of us a bunch of buffoons.
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>> So it was all three of our faults. >> Yeah. And here we are. Let's go. All right. Well, before we get into the
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case, we do have some bid nasty at the top of the show, honey. >> Bid nasty. >> We got Bid Nasty. Uh, tickets go on sale
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at noon today if you're listening on Monday. >> If you're nasty. >> If you're nasty. Yeah. Tickets for our
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live show, the second show that we added, um, which will be Sunday, September 28th at the Wilba. Those
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tickets are on sale at noon today, Monday, September 8th. Yep. >> Eth. >> So, that's exciting.
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>> It's going to be the same show as the the show on the 26th. Yep. >> Just so you know. So, you don't think
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it's going to be a different show? >> It's not. >> Uh, it'll be the same one, but we can't
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wait to see you there. >> I'm so excited. We're going to be fun as hell. >> A lot of you that weekend.
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>> Mhm. >> I can't wait. It's going to be exciting. Also, our bonus episode is coming out
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this Friday, September >> 12th. 12th. >> 12th. >> September 12th. Um, and we're going to
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be talking about Unknown Number: The High School Catfish. >> Mhm. >> I have now watched that documentary.
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Everybody do yourself a [ __ ] favor. Sit down, get comfortable, and get ready for your jaw to be on the [ __ ]
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ground. >> The flow. >> I knew going into it the twist. >> Yeah. >> And still I was somehow like, is it that
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person or is like this person? >> I almost said this is shock. >> This is shock.
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>> Shock and all. >> Um, yeah. It's going to be exciting to talk about. It's going to be a little
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little crazy to talk about. >> Yeah. >> But we thought it deserved its own bonus
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episode. We were going to do it along with the Amy Bradley documentary. Like do it a little little twofer in the
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bonus episode. But honestly, they're going to get their own. >> Yeah. There's a lot to talk about with
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both because the Amy Bradley documentary, we were talking about it after we said we were going to do that.
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And then I was like, well, the Amy Bradley documentary is like three episodes, >> very like indepth, and there's a lot of
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theories and there's just a lot of stuff to talk about. So, we didn't want to cram it into a bonus episode.
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>> And same thing with Unknown Number High School Catfish. So, get ready for Friday. Go watch that. We'll be talking
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about it. >> And remember, bonus episodes are once a month. And they are in addition to the
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regular episodes. They are not taking up one of the episodes in the week. >> You will get three episodes in one week.
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Once a month. >> Aren't you so lucky? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, let's get into the episode
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again. >> This is a great episode. >> Yeah. Now you can say that. Thank you. >> Thank you so much.
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>> Right off the bat, >> I appreciate it. >> From the jump, this is a wild episode.
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>> It is. It's not as wild as part uh three. Yeah. >> But it's pretty wild, >> but wild in a different way.
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>> Yeah. And I think I said this at the at some point in part three. The way I split them, I feel like I had to because
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so many different events take place. >> So I was like, let me just see. >> It makes perfect sense the way it's
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split because they are really like groupings of events that happened. They are differently and independently on
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different days. >> On different days. >> So last time we talked the basically the
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destruction of the SLA had occurred with that house fire and the standoff between
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>> where Grandma Chrissy was so lit. She slept through Grandma Chrissy. Don't forget about Grandpa Joe. Grandpa Tom.
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Oh, Grandpa. I was thinking about Griff from Willy Wonka because I made a reference about that this morning to my
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mom which is which sounds terrible but it was really funny. >> She thought it was hilarious.
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>> We're from Boston. We have a good sense of humor. >> That's how that's how we love each other
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in her little bed. And I said, "Ma, do you feel like Grandpa Joe?" And she said, "Yeah, yeah,
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>> I do." >> She thinks I'm hilarious. Uh so Tom, who they had kidnapped, uh Patty had the chance to leave multiple
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times at this point, but stayed and doubled down after that house fire cuz she was so upset.
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>> And now the SLA, like the remaining members and the new people they were scooping up,
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>> claimed that they were part of this kind of like overarching organization, which was the New World
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Liberation Front, which um it's that's a lot of words, so I'm just going to call
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it the NWLF. >> Yeah. which is I feel like it's never a good thing when a when a smaller company
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gets eaten up by a bigger one. >> No, I feel like that's the kiss of death. It is the kiss of death. Anyway,
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>> we've se I mean people we've seen it happen. >> Yeah, you've seen many examples.
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>> Everyone's seen it happen. >> So throughout the summer of 1974, Bill, Emily, and Patty managed to add, like I
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was just saying, a couple, you know, a handful of new members to the SLA. But it was with Bill leading and it turned
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out that he was a far less effective leader than Donald Dreeze had been. >> I could see that.
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>> Yeah. And like I said, at the end of three uh part three, the future of the SLA definitely seemed way more uncertain
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than it ever had. And now with pretty much anybody being able to operate in the name of the NWLF,
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so many like awful violent occurrences were going down all over the United States. There was bombings,
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assassination attempts, >> and they're all yelling in the name of >> Yeah. Even if it's not like even if
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these acts are committed by individuals who are not part of the NWLF, >> it's giving them a worse name than they
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already have. >> Collateral damage. >> They also didn't have a good name to begin with. Really is similar to so many
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things we know about. Anyway, >> uh so fully aware of their disadvantaged position, Bill, Emily, and Patty decided
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to go on the run again cuz remember, they're wanted as [ __ ] >> Run. Yeah, you know, run so far away.
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>> Over the course of the summer and fall, they traveled all around the United States. They stayed with other activists
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or people who knew them and sympathized in New York, Pennsylvania, plenty of places across the US where they were
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less likely to be recognized than they were in California. And they told themselves it was all part of the effort
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to regroup and develop a new strategy. >> Yeah, man. But in all reality, they had
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absolutely no idea what to do next or how to bounce back from I mean what was a devastating loss to them of losing six
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core SLA members including the leader. >> Yeah. No matter what those were their friends, I suppose.
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>> Yeah. Not iconic people. >> Yeah. For what they were doing. >> Not great people. But yeah, so they were
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broke. They were tired. And at this point they were pretty much driven only by the will to survive, which you know,
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aren't we all? I'm driven by the will to survive >> humans, you know. >> So, by January 1975, they decided to go
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back to California, which I was like, why? >> I can tell them that's probably the
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wrong move. >> Not only California, but they settled back in San Francisco where everything
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had started, like where they had kidnapped Patty almost a year earlier. Bold move. Let's see if it works out for
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them. >> One of the boldest. Yeah, let's see. So, in the course of their travels, they
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picked up a couple new members, including Mike Borton, James Kilgore, Steve Sallayya, and Kathleen Sallayia,
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also known as Kathy. >> KF KF. The SLA and the stories about Patty Hurst had kind of stopped taking
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up the front pages of the newspaper, and you know, radio stations were talking about it less and less, and that was
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pissing Bill off because he's the new leader of the SLA. He wants the SLA known. So, he decided that it was time
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for the group to reassert themselves and make their presence known. >> Or you could just like go about your
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lives. >> Or you could just like >> stop trying to make a name for this random thing you made up.
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>> Yeah. >> Just It's okay. You can move on. >> I'm sure somebody was like, "I'm tired
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of this, Grandpa." And Bill was like, "Too dang mad." >> And Bill said, "Too dang mad."
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>> That's too dang mad. >> But and well, that's the He said, "That's too dang bad." And he said, "We
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need some money for guns and supplies." So on February 25th, 1975, Michael Borton and James Kilgore entered the
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guild bank in San Francisco armed with shotguns and revolvers cuz they did have guns. They just wanted more.
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>> Of course, we always want more. >> Well, remember they had like a pile of guns in part three, but they lost those.
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So Oops. And then also they lost a ton in uh >> the big house fire. >> Oh, yeah. That you know,
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>> Grandma Chrissy slept through. >> Yeah. Yeah. Our queen Chrissy. >> Yeah. Pour one out. Definitely pour it
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out. >> Pour it out. >> Yeah. >> So, Bill, >> drink some water, man. >> Yeah. Hydrate. Got a liquid IV. Not even
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sponsored, but we love them. >> So, Bill spent weeks planning this robbery, and they all agreed that they
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wanted to use the same method that they had used in the um Hiburnia robbery the year before.
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>> I mean, it worked. >> It worked. Yeah. So, they figured, let's be out in 90 seconds. We don't want to
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hurt anybody. That's not our intention. >> Sick. and they said, you know, hopefully
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we'll make it out with enough to fund ourselves for the foreseeable future. >> I wonder.
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>> Well, the plan did work relatively well. They moved. And also, you don't wonder
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cuz you're even say it earnestly. >> I could. >> You said I wonder. >> I wonder.
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>> Well, in case for those of you out there who don't are wondering, >> the plan worked well. They moved in the
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allotted amount of time that 90 90 seconds. >> 90 seconds. >> 90 seconds. That's like a
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>> That's less than two minutes. You're correct at a minute and a half. You were
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correct. Less than two minutes. >> That's crazy. That just hit me how crazy that is. So, they moved in that time.
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But the problem was the guild bank was not nearly as large or as busy as the Hiburnia bank. So, they only came away
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with about $3,000, >> which is not a lot for your trouble. >> Yeah, it really wasn't.
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>> It's a lot of trouble. >> They still considered the operation a success. I mean, they were $3,000
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richer. I'm not going to complain about that. No one got hurt. this and it proved if nothing else to Bill and the
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others that even without Donald DeFreeze in the original SLA members they were still capable of pulling off a robbery
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and doing it pretty well and it's like okay I mean not great like we don't want to rob um that's not in my 2026 goals I
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don't think like that's not how you lock in you know like you don't just start rubbing but you did it was little
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>> maybe that's your that's your sweet spot maybe you know but I feel like they And
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they went too hard. >> They did. >> But I don't know. >> Well, you do. Because now energized and
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encouraged by the success of the robbery at the guild bank, Elena is foreshadowing a little bit.
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>> The group immediately started planning their next operation with eyes on a larger bank and a larger hall.
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>> See, cuz no one can ever just be like, >> be happy. >> Just take what you want.
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>> Sometimes it's good to want more and like be like charging forward for more and want to be better and all that.
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Totally. Yeah, >> in most circumstances in this one, not bank robberies. >> I'm going to encourage you to rest on
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your laurels here. >> That's the There's always there's a time and a place for everything. And this is
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the time and place to rest on your laurels. >> For laurels. >> So throughout the first few weeks of
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April, Patty and Emily, they were helping out by scoping out a new location for the robbery. There was the
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Bank of America in Mary'sville, a small town about 40 miles outside of Sacramento. Patty scoped that out and
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she actually drew a [ __ ] map for memory. Like a a floor plan, >> which like damn, put a pin in that skill
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and maybe use it for better. Maybe use it for taking tests. >> Yeah, cuz that's pretty great.
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>> Yeah. And then there was also the Crocker National Bank in Carmichael and that was also another suburb just
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outside of Sacramento. So after weighing their options, they decided, let's go with Crocker Bank because uh it was
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busier and as far as they could tell, it didn't look like they had security cameras. And I bet they weren't hiding
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them because >> No, don't ever do that. >> Yeah. Never. >> I'm like, obviously don't do that.
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Obviously they're going to do that. Especially like this time period. >> Yeah. >> Put them in places that you're not going
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to immediately recognize. >> Yeah. Well, and this is like the mid70s when California, I think, was like the
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bank. >> We talked about it in a recent case, that crazy robbery that I covered.
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>> It's like the bank robbery capital of the world. >> Yeah. At least like the the US.
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>> Yeah. >> But anyway, they didn't think they had security cameras, so that was pretty
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stupid. But with their choices made, Bill started devising a strategy for what they all expected would be a big
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step up in terms of reward. So on the morning of April 21st, 42-year-old MNA MNA Opsol drove to her church to pick up
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the collection money. And then she took it over to Crocker Bank like she had done countless times before. As she
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walked into the bank, she had a small adding machine in one hand and the deposit and not the other. And so a
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young man later identified as Mike Borton held open the door for her and she said, "Thank you." And she stepped
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inside. You know what would have been nice of Mike Borton to do? To tell her not to come in.
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>> Hey girly, you shouldn't come in here right now. >> Yep. >> Just like turn her away. You got 90
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seconds. Get it done. Get out. And this nice lady doesn't have to be part of this.
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>> And you would think that less people would make it even easier. Like you have
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less people to manage. >> Exactly. Just tell her go hold on a second. >> Yeah. You could even act as like a
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secure like a bank employee and be like, "Oh, we just like you can come in in like 10 minutes. We're just doing
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something, you know, make something up." >> Exactly. But no, he held open the door
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for her. >> He said, "Come on in." >> That's such a good point. >> Yeah. >> So, she at that point didn't notice the
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three other individuals who had slipped in behind her, and it probably really wouldn't have made a difference if she
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had anyway. >> Yeah. MNA hadn't even made it very far into the lobby of the bank when she
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heard a man's voice yell, "Everybody down on the ground, get the [ __ ] on the floor."
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>> I can't imagine the fear that would shoot through your [ __ ] body at that moment. Fear and like anger cuz you'd be
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like cuz having another like a pure human being be like, "Get the [ __ ] on the floor." I'd be like, "Fuck you."
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Like, you know, like immediately I just be like, "Who the [ __ ] do you think you
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are?" >> I love that we have such different reactions. I'd piss my pants. >> I would piss my p like get make no
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mistake. I would [ __ ] myself. Like there's >> But you'd be so mad. >> There would be this like little and
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probably later the anger would really hit where you're like [ __ ] you coming in
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here demanding [ __ ] of me. >> Like who are you? You're my you're I'm an adult. Like get out of here. You
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can't tell me what to do. >> That would piss me off. >> Yeah. I'd be terrified and angry and
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upset and all kinds of things. >> All the feelings. So by that time, Borton, Kilgore, Salia, Kathy Sallayia,
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and Emily Harris had all covered their faces with ski masks, and they were waving their guns in the air. Patty was
00:15:07
outside in a getaway car, ready to make their escape as soon as everybody emerged from the bank. And inside, Kathy
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Sallaya moved toward the line of tellers and just started shouting for them to fill the bag she had with cash in the
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drawers. While uh at the same time, Borton managed the crowd and James Kilgore guarded the door. Okay.
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>> So, having unshathed her shotgun from underneath her large coat, Emily Harris
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started counting down the time because they want to be out of there in 90 seconds, just as they had done in the
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previous two robberies. Startled and confused though because this is a really [ __ ] jarring
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experience. MNA Opsol hesitated when Borton told everybody to get on the ground and she also was holding an
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adding machine and the deposit. So, she was kind of like fumbling with everything and was also probably so
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scared that she didn't get down fast enough. >> Yeah, people freeze sometimes. >> Oh, I freeze every time I'm scared of
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something. >> It's a thing. So, at that moment, Emily Harris raised her gun and pointed it at
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MNA, hoping the threat would motivate her to get down. But it didn't. She's terrified. And everything happened so
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quickly. Without any warning, all sound in the lobby was blocked out as the shotgun rang out.
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>> As Emily Harris pulled the trigger, >> Emily Harris pulled the trigger [ __ ]
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and sent a slug into MNA Opsol's side. Wow. >> Which immediately shot her down to the
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ground. So, you decided that it was important to shoot this woman who just came from her church who was unarmed and
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holding a adding machine. >> Yep. >> And was terrified. >> Yep. >> Like that felt like a threat.
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>> Well, and also >> that's the thing like where was the threat, you [ __ ] [ __ ]
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>> Where's the threat? Obviously threat. She's just scared. She's probably just like a deer in headlights. Not like you
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said, not threatening at all. No. >> Also, like I hate saying anything like this, but you could have just pushed her
00:16:54
down. Yeah, you could instead of shooting her because your whole goal allegedly was to not hurt anyone,
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>> not hurt anyone. And it doesn't sound like that was the goal because if your initial if your immediate reaction when
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a nice lady holding an adding machine in her deposit from her church for the week
00:17:12
is terrified in front of you and your first reaction is to shoot her in the side with a [ __ ] shotgun. You did not
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go in there with the intention of being like not hurting someone. >> No, >> I I won't buy that for one second.
00:17:24
There's no nothing that could get me to shoot an innocent person with a shotgun.
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Like, it just wouldn't happen. >> It's also such a convenient story and like, oh, I didn't want to hurt anybody.
00:17:33
It was just a mistake when the whole entire point of this was to get the SLA's name back in the papers and back
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at the top of the top of news and media. >> And I love it cuz like and yeah, we'll
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get to it, but she loves to, you know, disengage from the actual >> Emily Harris is an [ __ ] She should
00:17:52
>> know that. She should know. >> So, in that moment, everybody in the lobby, including the other robbers, the
00:17:57
other members of the SLA, seemed stunned by what had happened. But Michael Borton
00:18:01
quickly got things under control, and he just started shouting for everybody to get their faces on the floor. With the
00:18:07
order restored, then Kathy resumed going down the teller line while Emily just kept counting down the seconds. And on
00:18:14
the floor in front of her, Maopsol was slumped in a rapidly expanding pool of blood. Like, she's dying on the floor
00:18:21
right now. shot in the stomach with a shotgun. When they hit 90 seconds, Emily called out the time and everybody
00:18:26
abandoned their positions and made a break for it. Outside, Michael Borton jumped into one car and got the hell out
00:18:32
of there, and Patty and the others followed close behind in her van. Later, Patty said there was a very odd tension
00:18:39
and an odd silence as they drove. >> She said everybody kind of removed their masks and just looked
00:18:47
>> like freaked out. >> The silence was finally broken though by stupid [ __ ] Emily. who said maybe
00:18:52
she'll live and James Kilgore looked at her and said no I saw her like she's not
00:18:57
going to make it back inside the staff of the bank who's also traumatized they scrambled to lock the door and call the
00:19:04
police while also going to Ma's side to help her >> bank teller Rachel Harp said later when
00:19:11
we got the towels to put on the wounds they just went right through her >> oh that so she was
00:19:17
>> she was like ripped apart >> so the ambulance arrived quickly and transported murder to the hospital um
00:19:23
American River Hospital and she was rushed into surgery and immediately they recognized her as the wife of one of the
00:19:30
emergency doctors on the staff Dr. Trigva Opsol and the staff contacted him immediately. So he rushed to the
00:19:38
hospital and joined in on the effort to save his wife's life. >> That is unthinkable. I can't imagine the
00:19:46
absolute just like desperation he must have felt. And you're sitting there trying to to do these clinical things
00:19:55
that are going to save somebody's life. But this isn't just somebody. This is your wife. This is your life partner.
00:20:00
>> Yeah. I can't even conceive of that. >> No. So, unfortunately though, MNA was
00:20:06
almost dead when she arrived at the hospital and there was nothing they could have done to save her. The damage
00:20:11
had already been done. And remember, she was laying on the floor while the rest of this went down. Like, if she was
00:20:16
going to be saved, she would have needed >> attention right away. >> Right away. And she was robbed of that.
00:20:23
>> So, in the end, uh, Dr. Trigga had to be pulled away from her because he just
00:20:27
kept trying to do more things to save her, but they were like, "It's not going to work."
00:20:31
>> Oh, that's so sad. >> And they had to move her to the morg. >> At that point, the remaining members of
00:20:37
the SLA had managed to avoid any direct experiences with that kind of violence. the the people who were part of the SLA
00:20:44
now weren't there when Marcus Foster was murdered and none of them had been at the house in South Central when the
00:20:49
police raided it and they were all very upset most of them. James Kilgore blamed
00:20:54
it on Emily being nervous and fiddling with the gun. Bill and Emily on the other hand though tried to play it off
00:20:59
like it was just the price of revolution. Emily, stupid [ __ ] Emily literally said, "So what if she got shot? Her
00:21:06
husband's a doctor. She's a bourgeoa pig." Oh, shut the [ __ ] up. Like, get >> She married some She married someone who
00:21:15
went to medical school. >> She married someone that makes her like >> like justifies her being shot in the
00:21:22
side while she's unarmed and doing nothing wrong. >> No, it just makes you feel better about
00:21:25
yourself. And also, >> she married a doctor who saves pe an ER doctor who saves people's lives. who if
00:21:31
you were in a life-threatening incident or any kind of incident would save your life, you go to him.
00:21:36
>> If you had if something had happened during the course of that robbery and you were bought brought to the hospital
00:21:40
where he worked, he would actually have an oath to take care of you and save your life.
00:21:46
>> But but >> but she's supposed to be the mother. >> A mother a mother. >> Yep.
00:21:52
>> Who did innocent mother doing nothing wrong? >> Yeah. holding an adding machine and
00:21:56
terrified >> and holding holding an adding machine in her church's deposit. >> She deserved it. Like go [ __ ] come on.
00:22:04
>> But your whole message is just completely gone. Like any message you guys thought you had with that is like
00:22:10
bye. >> Yeah, exactly. Well, they reasoned, Bill and Emily, that if Ma hadn't been
00:22:15
standing there when the gun went off, James would have been shot, so he would have been killed. And it's like, oh,
00:22:21
okay. Is that supposed to be like, first of all, ma is a sacrifice here. >> Oh, cool. So, the gun just went off.
00:22:27
>> Yeah, exactly. >> You had nobody to distance yourself from that act. And also, maybe the gun
00:22:33
shouldn't have gone off. Maybe you shouldn't have pulled the trigger to shoot the gun in the first place since
00:22:39
you went in there not wanting to hurt anyone and MNA did [ __ ] nothing to threaten you. Maybe you guys all should
00:22:47
have gotten a [ __ ] job and stopped robbing banks. >> Yeah. Stop being dicks. >> Exactly. Well, despite their attempts at
00:22:54
being the most nonchalant [ __ ] on the planet, it was clear that the the robbery had been botched and the death
00:23:00
had of MNA, the murder, I should say, had shaken everybody. They had all been hoping that the bank job also would get
00:23:06
them about $100,000, but in the end, the takeaway was a little over 15. >> Wow. >> 15,000.
00:23:12
>> So, they're not even good at research. They're not good at research, execution,
00:23:16
the above. >> They're really bad at errands. >> You remember from part three? >> Yeah, they're wicked bad at errands.
00:23:21
>> Terrible. So, in the weeks and months that followed, they started laying low because now they're wanted. And they had
00:23:27
been all been identified by bank tellers as the remaining members of the SLA, including Patty. So, they were all
00:23:33
wanted for armed uh armed robbery and murder. By the summer of 1975, the NWLF was also claiming credit for the murder
00:23:42
of Wilbert Papey Jackson, who was president of the uh United Prison Union and actually a one time associate of the
00:23:49
SLA. >> Oh, wow. >> But he was killed along with his girlfriend. So, the fact that he had
00:23:54
been killed, MNA Opsol had been killed during the robbery of the Crocker Bank, all of that together caused everybody to
00:24:02
be like, "What the [ __ ] is going on here?" like you need to put a stop to these people just creating viol inciting
00:24:07
violence everywhere. >> There's no message here. It's just violence for violence sake at this
00:24:12
point. >> Exactly. So everybody was calling for law enforcement to just put an end to
00:24:15
this, especially around California. And within a few months, the main players in
00:24:20
the NWLF, like the higher ranking people, started getting arrested one after the other. So it was only a matter
00:24:26
of time before they started coming after the SLA. So, they spent the members of the SLA spent the summer studying the
00:24:32
anarchist cookbook and um perfecting their bomb making skills. Losers. But aside from a few bombs that they placed
00:24:40
under police cars in San Francisco that all failed to go off, by the way, their activities went pretty much unnoticed
00:24:45
cuz they were really bad at everything. >> When they weren't developing their criminal skills, Patty, Bill, and Emily
00:24:51
spent their time working on a manuscript manifesto. They had been writing. Yeah,
00:24:57
>> you got that word better show up in one of these. >> You know, a manifesto is always part of
00:25:01
something like this. >> Always. >> But in a rather strange turn of events, after almost 2 years of running and
00:25:07
hiding, the months after the Crocker robbery were kind of the closest thing to normal life any of them had
00:25:13
experienced in a while. It's like you can feel this way. >> Yeah. Like stop doing stupid [ __ ]
00:25:19
>> Exactly. >> It might have been the feeling of normaly and the kind of stability that
00:25:23
was going on that caused them to let their guard down. >> Oops. or who knows if it was
00:25:28
subconsciously because everybody wanted out of this and wanted it to come to an end. But whatever the case, in late
00:25:33
August, the relationships within the group were starting to deteriorate, especially the one between Patty and the
00:25:39
Harrises. In early September, she decided she was going to leave the safe house that they
00:25:44
established, and she wanted to move in with Steve Salia and Wendy Yoshimura. And she actually said that she wanted to
00:25:52
cut Bill and Emily off entirely. She didn't even want to talk to them anymore. >> Damn. Yeah, before that they had kind of
00:25:58
settled into like a weird domestic routine. >> I don't know like what the ins and outs
00:26:04
of their relationship was, but it sounds like it it was a little bit strange like they
00:26:09
were all kind of like living together and >> as in like almost like >> relationships you we can't define.
00:26:15
>> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But it also quickly started to kind of resemble the relationship that Patty had with Steve,
00:26:23
her old fiance, cuz it was just mundane and, you know, boring. And remember, that was not for her at all. So that's
00:26:30
kind of why she wanted to leave. >> So ironically though, in the end, their mundane dayto-day proved to be their
00:26:37
undoing. Throughout the investigation, FBI agents had identified and located Kathy
00:26:43
Sallaya, and they identified her as the link between the Crocker bank robbery and the original SLA members, including
00:26:50
Patty Hurst. >> Oh, damn. >> So, once they were able to determine where she was living, they figured it
00:26:55
was only a matter of time before Kathy would lead them to the others. >> So, they had uh they had agents watching
00:27:02
Kathy around the clock. They followed her everywhere she went at all times. >> Wow. And eventually that paid off.
00:27:12
>> On the morning of September 18th, FBI agents spotted Bill Harris at a laundromat. They followed him back to
00:27:18
his apartment. >> Just like I told you, ass life. >> So they followed him back to his
00:27:24
apartment and they quickly arrested Emily and Bill there. So disappointed but undaunted. Uh FBI lead agent Charlie
00:27:32
Bates scheduled a press conference for later that afternoon. And he started preparing his statement which probably
00:27:38
would have been something like, "We're pleased to announce the arrest of Bill and Emily Harris, and you know, we
00:27:42
remain committed to finding Patricia Hurst, but we haven't done that yet." >> Yeah.
00:27:46
>> And it probably would have gone out that way had it not been for two thorough
00:27:50
investigators who decided to circle back and check the address that they had for
00:27:54
Steve Salia. >> I love when it's like good investigative work. >> Yeah. Love that. So later that
00:28:00
afternoon, San Francisco Police Inspector Tim Casey and FBI special agent Tom Paddton along with two
00:28:06
additional SFPD officers drove over to the apartment of 625 Mor Street to take one last look before they headed into
00:28:15
that press conference that very afternoon. I love that. Uh there was two officers watching the front door and
00:28:21
Casey and Padden crept around the back porch where through a dirty window they could see Wendy just showing some
00:28:28
letters to Patty at the kitchen table. >> I love it. So no idea. >> Mundane as [ __ ]
00:28:33
>> No idea. Wendy had just got up from the table to go get a glass of water, and
00:28:38
the two women heard the sound of breaking glass as Paddin broke down the door, burst into the kitchen, pointed
00:28:45
his gun at Wendy, and shouted to Patty, "Freeze or I'll blow her head off." >> Wow. Taste of your own medicine.
00:28:51
>> Yeah. Not so fun being on the other side of that, huh? And of course in the year
00:28:55
before they had all gone over all these scenarios about how this could end and how they would, you know, they would run
00:29:02
away or they would attack the police or like Yeah. It was going to be so cool, man. They'd be badass [ __ ]
00:29:09
>> But now that they were standing in that very moment, neither of them knew what
00:29:14
to do. >> Yeah. Obviously >> standing in the position that they have put other people in several times.
00:29:19
>> Standing in the position that MNA was put in and she didn't know what to do. Did you freeze? Yep. Maybe. Yep. So,
00:29:26
they didn't do anything. No shootouts, no running. They just put their hands up and surrendered. It was all finally
00:29:32
over. >> Wow. >> Kind of. So, after more than a year on the run with bombings, robberies, and
00:29:38
now a murder behind them, five members of the SLA, including the last of the original members, were all taken into
00:29:45
custody with no incident. When asked for a statement, Katherine Hurst, Patty's mom, told a reporter, "They found Patty.
00:29:51
Thank god she's all right. But neither she or Randolph cared to really give any additional comment. Probably
00:29:57
understanding that their daughter was safe. But this was only the beginning of a very long process of trying to figure
00:30:03
out what the [ __ ] had happened here >> because I mean this is a this is a complex case.
00:30:09
>> Yeah. And Patty had been gone for almost a year and they're still wondering did
00:30:13
she want to do all this? Was she forced into doing all this? >> That's the thing.
00:30:17
>> We don't know. >> Can two and two things can be true at once. So yeah, you know, and we'll
00:30:22
definitely get into that. >> Now, even though everybody surrendered without a fight, once the cameras were
00:30:28
rolling and the recordings were running, Patty and the other members fell right back into their radical activist
00:30:33
routine, being very performative, >> of course, >> everybody from local journalists and
00:30:38
cops and, you know, even the head of the FBI wanted to know the same thing. Who was Patty Hurst now? Was she the same
00:30:45
girl who got kidnapped over a year ago and was just like carried away in the middle of the night? Or had she really
00:30:50
turned her back on where she had come from and joined the SLA? And as she stepped out of the car at the LA uh FBI
00:30:58
building, she stood there and held up a raised fist in the air which indicated that the latter was the truth.
00:31:05
>> Yep. >> I think there's a picture of that, too. Like a picture. So during their booking, and this is
00:31:11
just the most [ __ ] obnoxious [ __ ] all five members of the SLA were characteristically defiant. Patty gave
00:31:18
her name as Tanya, and when they asked her what her occupation was, she told them urban gorilla.
00:31:25
>> I would have laughed really hard. >> I would have probably been really [ __ ] annoyed by that. Urban gorilla.
00:31:32
>> Yeah. You're like, I don't I don't have that. >> Why don't you tell me you're an
00:31:35
unemployed [ __ ] who runs a muck and kills people? Now, unlike the others who had absolutely no money for a lawyer,
00:31:42
Randolph Hurst, Patty's father, hired a pack of the nation's best defense attorneys, and he comprised a team that
00:31:49
would eventually be led by F. Lee Bailey. Oh, >> who is the heard that name? >> Yeah, I was going to say a notorious
00:31:55
defense attorney. He represented Albert Dalvo, who confessed to being the Boston
00:31:59
Strangler. Damn. >> Sam Shepard, who we've covered before, too. Um, he was accused of murdering his
00:32:04
wife in the middle of the night. And obviously Effle Bailey would go on to represent OJ OJ Simpson in the 90s.
00:32:10
>> Yeah. >> So that was a big deal. >> Yeah. >> And in the days that followed, the
00:32:15
investigation mostly focused on Patty. Everybody wanted to know, had she been brainwashed? What had happened here? It
00:32:21
was obviously just a matter of curiosity for the public and you know like we're all just nosy [ __ ]
00:32:26
>> of course >> but it was also pretty relevant when it came to the question of if she could be
00:32:30
held responsible for the crimes that she had participated in while she was part of them or at least living with them.
00:32:37
>> According to sports activist Jack Scott who had actually spent a lot of time with the group just before the Crocker
00:32:43
robbery. He said Patty joined the Sembanese Liberation Army of her own accord and proved herself in the
00:32:48
Hiburnia robbery the previous year. >> Yeah. I mean it that's true. >> But on the other side of the argument
00:32:55
was Patty's family and obviously her defense team who said she was in an incredibly fragile state when she was
00:33:01
arrested and it was clear that she was not acting of her own accord. >> And that can also kind of be true. Yeah.
00:33:06
>> Like I can see both sides of this completely. >> Like we were saying earlier I think two
00:33:10
things can be true at once. But Effle Bailey told reporters, "Her situation is deteriorating swiftly in the San Monteo
00:33:17
jail. It will serve no purpose to have her mental condition deteriorate to the point where she cannot stand trial for
00:33:22
the foreseeable future." >> Ultimately, she was deemed fit to stand trial. So, her, you know, mental state
00:33:29
obviously wasn't deteriorating that badly. >> Yeah. >> Um, and a judge deemed that her recorded
00:33:33
confessions that she had sent to her parents, uh, and the press, like all those recordings that had been sent
00:33:38
throughout this, were admissible now in this trial. Oh, damn. >> Yeah. In January 1976, she went on trial
00:33:45
for the robbery of the Hiburnia bank robbery the previous year, which wasn't so crazy. It was, you know, a standard
00:33:52
bank robbery. No one was hurt or nobody was killed, I should say. People were hurt.
00:33:56
>> But she was the only member who could be identified and she was the only person
00:34:01
to be tried for that robbery. >> Wow. >> Which when you think about it is crazy.
00:34:05
>> That is crazy. Arguing in her defense, Effle Bailey said that yes, it was true
00:34:11
she had participated, but she had only done so under extreme duress. He said all of the activities Patty had
00:34:18
participated in during her time with the SLA were done out of fear for her life.
00:34:22
And he said most any other victim would comply with their kidnapper to make sure
00:34:26
that they were safe, >> which is true. >> Which is true. >> That was a true statement.
00:34:30
>> Then the prosecution hired Dr. Harry Kosal to evaluate Patty and determine if
00:34:36
she had acted of her own valition or not or not. But within a few days, Patty and
00:34:40
Effle Bailey complained to the court that Dr. Kosal had been aggressive, abusive, and had driven Patty to tears.
00:34:47
Damn. In a 45minute interview that halted the trial entirely, Patty told the judge that he quote implied she had
00:34:53
arranged her own kidnapping, asked if she was proud of having robbed a bank, which I think is a valid question. uh
00:34:59
dwelt upon the skin pigmentation of Donald Dreeze, which I think is absolutely ridiculous.
00:35:04
>> And then he called her a little girl, >> which would piss me off. >> That would have pissed me off to the to
00:35:09
the end of the earth. >> Same. So he flatly rejected the claims. And in the end, it really didn't matter
00:35:15
because on March 11th, 1976, a jury found her guilty of armed robbery and Patty Hurst was sentenced to 7 years in
00:35:23
prison for the crime, which that's that is I mean, she committed armed robbery. She did.
00:35:29
>> That's just, you know, >> think of how crazy that is, though. She is the heirs to one of the richest
00:35:35
families in the entire world >> and she's serving seven years for armed robbery.
00:35:41
>> Armed robbery. >> And actually, it's funny. I was talking to Ma about this because Ma was like
00:35:47
>> 20 in her like early 20s when this all happened. And I said I was like, "Do you
00:35:52
remember like when this was happening?" And she did. She was like, "Oh, we were all very invested in this." Oh, that's
00:35:57
so crazy. >> Isn't that funny? >> Yeah. >> She Amma said she had just had kids and
00:36:02
but like her and Papa would watch it on the news and I was like, "What did you think?"
00:36:06
>> And she said she was like, "We didn't know what to think if she >> if she had been brainwashed or not."
00:36:11
Which I think is the right answer to be honest because I wasn't there. I was like, "I'm not there and I'm not hurt."
00:36:16
>> She did go through a ton of [ __ ] in the beginning. And it's like there was an
00:36:20
there was brainwashing no matter what. >> I think so too. whether she eventually
00:36:24
felt like she was doing the right thing or not and was actively involved. There was a level of brainwashing regardless.
00:36:31
So again, two things can be true. She could have been >> completely traumatized, which she was.
00:36:36
>> Yeah. >> I mean, she was sexually assaulted in the beginning there, too. >> Mhm.
00:36:40
>> Held in the dark, blindfolded, treated like a prisoner. >> Yep. >> And then it's like, so that can be true.
00:36:46
That's traumatizing. That's brainwashing. That's [ __ ] up. >> All of the above.
00:36:49
>> All of the above. Can't even imagine it. And then she could have also realized
00:36:54
I'm into this and decided to actively participate. So they both could have been true.
00:36:58
>> Agreed. >> But again, I think my opinion of it is I don't know. >> Yeah. I don't know.
00:37:05
>> I think a lot of people share that opinion and I think it's actually >> a a pretty valid opinion.
00:37:12
>> Yeah. Like a wise opinion to make. >> That's the thing. I wanted to say an intelligent opinion, but that didn't
00:37:18
sound right. a wise opinion because we weren't there. I don't have any similar experience. Luckily,
00:37:24
>> I can't draw on my experience. So, >> so I don't know, >> but it it was just interesting to talk
00:37:29
to Ma about because I was like, "Oh, that's weird that like you tuned into the news when this was massive news."
00:37:35
>> I know that is crazy. >> Yeah. But anyway, if Patty seemed overwhelmed and rund down in the leadup
00:37:41
to and during this first trial, it was probably because in addition to preparing for that trial, she was also
00:37:47
involved in ongoing interrogations by the FBI about the Crocker bank robbery and now the murder of MNA Opsol.
00:37:55
>> Oops. >> They knew that the SLA was responsible for both of these things, but they
00:37:59
hadn't been able to locate specific individuals. So, and actually they couldn't even connect uh Bill and Emily
00:38:05
Harris at all to the crimes. >> Damn. >> So, instead they focused their attention
00:38:09
on Steve Sallayia, who they incorrectly believed was the man guarding the door during the robbery.
00:38:15
>> But if you remember, Steve wasn't even part of that robbery. He was part of the
00:38:19
SLA, but he hadn't been there at Crocker Bank that day. >> Oh [ __ ] >> So, during the ent interrogations, Patty
00:38:25
was entirely compliant at this point, and she was very honest. She insisted and was truthful saying Steve hadn't
00:38:32
been at Crocker Bank that day and he actually hadn't been involved in any of the other crimes either.
00:38:37
>> Damn. >> But unfortunately also at that time she had lost all credibility >> and they didn't really believe anything
00:38:44
she was telling them. So instead the prosecutor forged ahead with their case against Steve Salia and based on a
00:38:50
witness identification of all things. Oh no. Kathleen James, who was a bookkeeper
00:38:56
for Crocker Bank and was there that day, said when you go through a robbery like
00:39:00
that and look a man in the face, you don't forget. >> I mean, which I understand you probably
00:39:07
feel that way for sure, >> but obviously it's possible because Steve wasn't there that day.
00:39:13
>> Witness identifications are notoriously shaky. >> Yeah. >> Because we're just human.
00:39:19
>> Yeah. >> So, it's like it's nobody's fault. It's just >> Well, and also remember they were all
00:39:24
wearing ski masks. >> Well, and a lot of And a lot of people, especially at that time with like the
00:39:28
style and everything, a lot of them probably looked alike. >> Yeah, they look similar.
00:39:31
>> You know, they have similar hairstyles. They have similar facial hair or anything like that. They're dressed the
00:39:36
same, same kind of features. It's like it's easy to do. That's why you got to take it with a grain of salt, though.
00:39:41
>> And even in a case like that, you're also seeing minimal features at that point because somebody's wearing a
00:39:45
[ __ ] ski mask. >> Exactly. >> So, >> yeah. But in April of 1976, Steve Sallaya ended up going on trial for not
00:39:52
only of the robbery, but that's where the murder took place. So, he was facing murder charges, too.
00:39:57
>> Wow. And he wasn't even there. He wasn't even there. >> Holy [ __ ] >> And the crazy thing is that this went
00:40:03
forward to trial with the prosecutor's best evidence being a grainy photograph and one eyewitness identification,
00:40:11
which is nuts. Damn. And also, you can you're probably not going to be shocked to hear one because you heard this, but
00:40:17
if you haven't before, the entire case pretty much fell apart within a week or so because the man in the photograph
00:40:23
believed to be Steve turned out to be another person entirely who just looked like him.
00:40:28
>> Yeah. >> Which like you said, people looked very similar back then, styles and
00:40:32
everything. >> Yeah. Like the the hairstyle was like very especially with men, it's like they
00:40:36
all had that same like bushy hairs, you know, the the facial hair. >> Yeah. So on April 28th, the jury voted
00:40:43
unanimously to acquit Steve Salia, thankfully of all charges. And the jury's foreman, Joanne Parker, said it
00:40:50
was a weak case. The evidence just wasn't there. Wow. So embarrassed by how badly they had botched the Sallayia case
00:40:57
and now lacking any and all evidence to connect the other members to the Crocker
00:41:01
bank robbery, the Sacramento District Attorney just chose not to pursue any more charges against anyone else. And so
00:41:09
they all went free and clear for robbing the Crocker bank and also murdering MNA
00:41:13
Obsol. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Which is [ __ ] >> Yeah, that's wild. A few months later
00:41:18
though, on September 29th, Bill and Emily being the only original members of the SLA pleaded guilty to kidnapping
00:41:25
Patty Hurst and they were sentenced to eight years in prison. >> Oh wow. >> So everybody's going downtown. It's
00:41:31
going down. >> Going downtown. Charlie Brown. So, in January of 1979, after 2 years of
00:41:38
lobbying from the extremely powerful and well-connected Hurst family, President Jimmy Carter ended up commuting Patty's
00:41:45
sentence after she had served a little over 2 years. >> Here's the thing. >> I think that's [ __ ]
00:41:54
>> I think wealth and privilege might have gone into that. >> Might have >> uh decision. Wealth and privilege is all
00:42:01
you can credit that to >> at least. Can you imagine being the other members and being like, "Fuck you.
00:42:07
You joined us." Like, >> come on. >> What the hell? >> But on February 1st, 1979, Patty Hurst
00:42:14
walked out of federal prison a completely free woman. Wow. >> And she made a really, in my opinion,
00:42:21
ignorant statement to the press. >> She said, "For a young person not quite 25, I've done an awful lot of things."
00:42:28
Some of them unusual. I've learned an awful lot about people. Let's unpack that. You just got such a
00:42:38
gift. You were given such a gift here >> and now you've been touched by an angel.
00:42:44
>> You've been touched by an angel girl. >> Like that's what you choose to say. I've done
00:42:51
an awful lot of things. Some of them unusual. Unusual. Did you not spend any time in prison looking up [ __ ]
00:42:58
synonyms for the word unusual? You shot a an automatic weapon into a sporting goods store without a second thought of
00:43:06
who could have been in there. >> That's beyond unusual. >> Like that's not unusual. That's [ __ ]
00:43:10
reckless and dangerous and violent. Regardless of whether you're brainwashed or not, you are alone in a car with a
00:43:16
set of keys and you chose to shoot into a sporting goods store and possibly kill
00:43:21
children in there. >> Yep. Not that anybody's life is worth more than the other, but it's like you
00:43:26
don't know who's in there. >> No. And then to say I've learned an awful lot about people.
00:43:32
>> Like that's not >> I want to hear that you've learned about yourself. >> That is not good.
00:43:36
>> And that you've learned about wrong and right and morals and sick to hear. >> Like honestly, at that point, just don't
00:43:44
even [ __ ] say anything. >> That's the thing. I'd be like, you know what? Say something better or shut the
00:43:48
[ __ ] up. >> If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. And that was not
00:43:52
nice. No, >> that was just not nice, my friend. >> Well, and here's the thing. Obviously,
00:43:57
the Hurst family was happy and Patty's supporters were overjoyed, but to the family and friends of MNA Opsol, who had
00:44:02
gotten absolutely no justice at all, that's a slap in the face. Exactly. It was a slap in the [ __ ] face. So, uh,
00:44:10
in the years after she was released from prison, Patty ended up marrying her former bodyguard, Bernard Shaw. That
00:44:16
does not sound real. Ma, I said to Ma, I was like, "Yeah." And like she ended up
00:44:20
marrying her bodyguard and ma said I remember that. It was very weird. >> It was very weird.
00:44:24
>> She was like it was very strange. >> Like weird. >> She was like it was just like crazy
00:44:28
news, you know, >> like just like what? >> This doesn't sound real. >> Yeah. And they went on to have two kids
00:44:32
together. >> Wow. Okay. >> Uh she Patty eventually did confirm the widely held belief that she had only
00:44:38
participated in the SLA activities out of fear for her own safety. And that was a claim she repeated in her memoir which
00:44:45
was called Every Secret Thing and published in 1981. And it was in that same book that Patty
00:44:51
revealed for the very first time who it was that had shot Ma Obsol. >> Oh, >> she revealed that it was Emily Harris.
00:44:58
>> Damn. >> Since then, she it seems like she used her her inheritance in her time. Well,
00:45:04
>> yeah, it does seem like it. >> She turned things around. So, I will say as annoyed as I was at that statement,
00:45:09
at least she did some good. >> Oh, hey, that's all you can ask. >> Yeah, she supported a lot of causes
00:45:14
including um the AIDS crisis. She donated to a lot of children's charities. She also has done acting.
00:45:20
She's um I didn't even realize this. She's been in John Waters movies. >> That's wild.
00:45:25
>> Yeah. And also just like random TV shows. >> That's real wild. >> Yeah. I shouldn't even say random TV
00:45:30
shows. Just like TV shows in general. I don't want to sound like an [ __ ] >> I'm sure she's been on good ones. But um
00:45:37
here's the thing. Back to MNA Opsol because the injustice that her family experienced is wild.
00:45:44
>> Yeah. But they were undeterred to get justice for their mother. >> So good for them. Yeah. John Obsol and
00:45:50
his siblings were not content to let their mom just be like a footnote in the Patty Hurst story and like another
00:45:56
wealthy American. >> So instead, they kept pushing law enforcement to keep the case active and
00:46:01
continue to pursue whoever was responsible here. But the problem was that those who were actually responsible
00:46:08
for the murder and the robbery had kind of disappeared entirely without a trace because nobody was ever
00:46:14
>> Yeah. >> ever brought in and like you know like they never pinpointed exact people in
00:46:19
this. >> But that was until the story aired on a 1999 episode of America's Most Wanted.
00:46:26
>> They ended up showing mug shots on that program and they aged them and showed
00:46:31
them >> which I think is so cool when they do that. Yeah, that's interesting. >> And it works a lot of the times, or at
00:46:36
least some of the time. After the show aired, somebody from St. Paul, Minnesota called the hotline from America's Most
00:46:44
Wanted and told the operator they were not totally positive, but they did think that the image of Kathy Sallaya looked a
00:46:51
lot like their neighbor, Sarah Jane Olsen. Sarah Jane. So, local police paid a visit to one Sarah Jane Olsen. Uh-oh.
00:47:02
Sarah Jane, >> who is living with her husband, a wellrespected doctor in the area. This
00:47:08
[ __ ] I when you told when I we did recorded this for the first time, I wish we had
00:47:14
my reaction. >> I know, >> but my mic was [ __ ] But I lost it at this because I was
00:47:22
like, "Oh, you mean a bourgeois pig?" >> Yeah. >> Who deserves to die? And it sounds like
00:47:29
you would think that you do because you married one. Isn't that wasn't that the logic we're all working with?
00:47:35
>> Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? >> Like holy [ __ ] Glass house. How are you
00:47:39
doing? >> Sarah Jane. >> Sarah Jane. >> That pissed me off in a way I could not describe.
00:47:45
>> No, it's rancid over there. You just after like terrorizing the state of California and
00:47:56
being present for the murder of a woman. >> Yeah. >> You just after talking [ __ ] about said
00:48:02
woman who you killed, >> you married a doctor and just settled in St. Paul, Minnesota and went on to have
00:48:09
children and live a regular life. Like a nice life. >> Exactly what you were raging against.
00:48:14
Isn't that Isn't that it? >> Yeah. Interesting. >> Wow. >> Shocking. And we're so mad because it
00:48:20
was confirmed that Sarah Jane Olsen, she confessed she was in fact Kathy Sallaya,
00:48:26
a former member of the SLA. Which also she had three daughters at that point. Teenage daughters. I can't imagine being
00:48:33
them. >> Yeah, I can't imagine fighting out. >> You did what? >> Excuse me. >> Your name is like you just lied to me my
00:48:39
whole [ __ ] life. >> That's that would Yeah, I feel for them. >> Like you don't even know your mom's real
00:48:44
name. >> That's a whole mess of stuff you're going to have to work through. >> Yeah. And that's shitty and awful to do
00:48:50
somebody. >> So, in the summer of 1999, now Kathy/Sarah was charged with conspiracy to commit
00:48:57
murder for placing those bombs underneath police cars in San Francisco. >> Yikes.
00:49:02
>> And she was also charged with attempting to ignite an explosive with intent to
00:49:05
murder. She was literally going to murder a bunch of police officers. >> Now, given how much time had passed, the
00:49:11
prosecutor was kind of skeptical that they were going to get any kind of conviction. So, Kathy Sarah was offered
00:49:16
in. That's all I can think to call her to make it less confusing. She was offered and she accepted a plea deal
00:49:22
where she pleaded guilty to two counts of possessing explosives with intent to murder and they dropped the other
00:49:28
charges. >> That plea carried a sentence of around 3 years in prison. >> Let me just quickly remind you what she
00:49:37
accepted the plea deal to. >> Two counts of possessing explosives with intent to murder. Holy [ __ ] 3 years.
00:49:46
That's shocking. >> Hello. >> Yeah. >> Is this thing on? >> However, almost immediately after
00:49:52
accepting her deal, Kathy Sarah started claiming publicly that she was innocent and she only accepted the deal to
00:49:58
protect everybody else from back then. So, a few months later, she petitioned the court to allow her to withdraw her
00:50:04
plea. And in the fall of 2001, she went on trial now. So, she completely removed
00:50:10
her plea. >> What a shitty dice to roll. Yeah, it was >> like I even again I wish we had our
00:50:18
first recording because even not knowing how it turned out I was like, "Oh, that's not going to go well."
00:50:22
>> It sure didn't. >> I just don't Bad dice roll. >> It went the worst that it possibly could
00:50:26
have, too. Because >> her trial judge was the same judge who had signed off on her plea deal.
00:50:32
>> That's pretty poetic. >> Pretty poetic. And he was pretty [ __ ] frustrated and disappointed that she'd
00:50:36
been lying to his face on several occasions. Yeah. >> So, yeah, the gamble on a trial did not
00:50:42
pay off. In January of 2002, Kathy Sarah was sentenced to 10 years to life. >> That's different.
00:50:50
>> She could have just served 3 years in prison for something she had done like many, many years ago.
00:50:56
>> Years to life. >> Instead, she decided to be a [ __ ] [ __ ] >> Like, holy. >> And so, she got what she deserved in my
00:51:03
opinion. >> Damn. Now, it's safe to assume that uh Kathy Sarah was pretty disappointed with
00:51:08
the outcome of all that, but it turned out that that was just the beginning of her problems. The arrest of a one-time
00:51:14
SLA member, Kathy Sarah, was exactly what investigators needed to take another look at MNA Opsol's murder case.
00:51:22
Fortunately, and somewhat surprisingly, the FBI located a trove of evidence that
00:51:28
the Sacramento District Attorney's Office had previously claimed they didn't have.
00:51:32
>> Interesting. when they were trying Steve for all of this. >> Uh, among that evidence was money taken
00:51:38
from the Crocker bank robbery. >> A large number of guns, including the shotgun and the pellets that were used
00:51:44
to kill MNA, and a significant amount of fingerprint evidence that linked Kathy/Sarah, Mike Borton, James Kilgore,
00:51:53
Bill Harris, and Emily Harris to the robbery and the murder. Huh. Like, interesting that that was just like, oh,
00:52:00
we just found this. >> Hello. >> Yeah. Like where was that all? >> What was going on there?
00:52:04
>> It was like you guys really wanted to pin that on Steve, huh? >> Allegedly. Allegedly.
00:52:09
>> So in February of 2003, uh Bill Harris, Emily Harris, Mike Borton, and Kathy/
00:52:15
Sarah pleaded guilty to the robbery of Crocker Bank and uh for the murder of Mna Obsol. And they each received
00:52:23
between six and eight years in prison. O and they finally in court accepted responsibility for their actions. And
00:52:30
they did apologize to the Obsol family, but um obviously that didn't bring their
00:52:34
mother or their wife or their sister or their friend back. >> No. And James Kilgore was eventually
00:52:41
found in Cape Town, South Africa later that year. He was extradited to the US and he also pleaded guilty to the
00:52:48
charges, but he served his time uh he served six years and was released on parole.
00:52:53
>> Damn. But every single person ended up facing actual consequences. That never saw that coming.
00:53:01
>> Whether it took years or not, they all ended up serving prison time. >> Yeah. That's
00:53:06
>> which is poetic justice. >> That really is cuz any any kind like you just wanted some kind of consequences.
00:53:13
>> Yeah. I mean like even Patty serving two years, I don't think it's necessarily
00:53:17
fair. >> Yeah. >> That she got her sentence commuted. But I think that's also really complicated
00:53:22
when you get into the brainwashing of it all. >> So I'll leave that where it is. But just
00:53:25
the fact that everybody else did end up serving >> serve some time for it. It's like you
00:53:30
did commit crimes. You you know what I mean? >> You do the crime. You do the time.
00:53:34
>> Yeah. And people died as a result. It's not like these were petty crimes that
00:53:37
didn't end up with people being hurt. >> No. People got hurt and a woman ended up
00:53:41
killed. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I'm glad that her family got the justice they deserved. And good
00:53:46
for them for never giving up. >> Yeah. Yeah, cuz like we say, a cold case is never cold.
00:53:50
>> It's true. It's never cold. You can always warm it up in the microwave. >> True.
00:53:54
>> They did that. >> They did. >> You just you you just keep going. >> You just keep going. Just don't leave it
00:54:00
in the microwave. You got take it out. >> Yeah. So, >> so that's it. >> That's what an interesting interesting
00:54:10
story. It really is cuz I never knew like obviously I knew who Patty Hurst was and everything but I did not know
00:54:16
all the nitty-gritty. >> Same. >> And I didn't know like even just like the weird things like not weird but just
00:54:22
like random things that she like married her bodyguard. >> Yeah. I didn't know any of that.
00:54:26
>> She I thought it was kind of >> kind of iconic that she outed Emily in the book.
00:54:31
>> Yeah, that was wild. >> Like I was She's like she's already in prison so >> well. And it's the truth is the truth.
00:54:37
>> The truth is the truth. >> It just is what it is. >> Yeah. Fascinating case for sure.
00:54:41
>> And u MNA Opsil's family deserved to know who pulled the trigger. >> Absolutely they did.
00:54:47
>> And America's Most Wanted forever. >> Yeah, truly. >> Come on. >> Damn. >> And it was also just really cool to talk
00:54:53
to Ma like about being like, "Hey, do you remember this?" And she was like, "Hell yeah, I do.
00:54:57
>> Hell yeah, I remember Patty." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And at least she, you know, at
00:55:01
least she's, you know, seems to be trying to repent. >> Yeah. She definitely did. Like helping
00:55:06
her life crisis and children's charities and everything. >> That's really all you can ask is growth.
00:55:10
>> Well, that's all you can do. You know, >> that's literally all you can do. >> All you can do is grow.
00:55:14
>> Yeah. >> And we'll we'll keep growing cuz that's all we can do. >> And you guys, too.
00:55:19
>> Yeah. Keep growing as an audience. >> And we hope you keep listening. >> And we hope you
00:55:23
>> keep it weird. But not so weird that you record a podcast for eight years and you
00:55:28
forget to plug your [ __ ] microphone in. [Music] [Music] [Music]