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Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. [music] It's [music] morbid in the evening.
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[singing] It's spooky and gloomy. It is spooky and gloomy. >> I like it though. >> I do too. I don't love the lights right
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now. Um, yeah, I liked them at first. >> Yeah, they >> I just can't figure out the We have
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those light bulbs that you can um >> like customize >> you can customize the lights for
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>> and we keep picking something and we're all like, "Wow, this is it, guys. This
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lighting is where it's at. >> This is the one." >> And then about one day later, I'm like,
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I'm over this lighting. >> Yeah, it was really good. I think we did it the other night when we had a special
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guest. >> A special guest. >> Special guest over. But cuz it was like moody Judy lighting. Yeah, it was super
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moody Judy. >> But maybe it's too moody Judy right now. >> It's like Yeah, I just don't like it.
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Let's pause while we change the lights. >> Is it affecting your your moody Judiness? We figured it out.
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>> Yeah, I back to the show. I needed regular color lights. I didn't feel super Gen Z today.
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>> We needed some uh like warm warm colored lights. Like Nancy Meyers movie warm.
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>> There you go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Speaking of like feeling warm and good and correct, have you bought our
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tarot deck yet? Because that's warm and good and correct. >> And you will feel warm and good and
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correct. >> Yeah. And you'll know if you're making the correct choices in life. >> You can ask the tarot.
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>> Because you can ask the tarot and she'll say >> maybe >> yes, no, try again. Maybe. It could even
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be more detailed than that. It depends on your personal reading. >> It's true. >> But our tarot cards are sick. Um it's
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>> they are they are genuinely so [snorts] gorgeous, guys. I love them. The artist
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is elite. >> Marissa Wear. Marissa Wear [ __ ] killed it. >> And also support artists, you know.
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>> Yeah, support artists. We love it. >> I just love the colors. There's fun phrases on them that we say like there's
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I love love and there I don't want to tell you too many, so I'm just going to leave it at that. But you should order
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them right now. Literally, you just go to morbidarot.com. That's morbid. You can spell that. Tarot
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t a r o t.com. And you can pre-order. They're going to ship around like March 20th, which is the winter solstice.
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>> Yeah. So, that's kind of fun. >> That is fun. >> Good to celebrate. >> I love the solstesses. We love a
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solstice in here. But they're really fun. They're really different. They're limited.
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>> Yeah. They're super limited edition. So, if you don't order them, you're never
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going to get more of a tarot card. >> They'll be gone forever. >> They'll really suck for you.
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>> We don't want that to happen. >> You should get some [laughter] before they run out.
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>> It's true. You should. You don't want to be the only witchy sister at the >> on the block
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>> at the apothecary table reading tarot cards with the not morbid tarot deck. >> Yeah. You don't want to be that witchy.
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>> So embarrassing. >> Oh god, I would hate that. >> Yeah. So do tarot. Do witchcraft. It's
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great. I love witchcraft. >> We could all use some tarot in our lives right now.
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>> Yeah. I've actually been doing this thing lately and well I was and then I like fell off of it and I need to get
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back into it. I've been doing these little like romanticize your life things because it's good for you.
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>> It is. And I would like if especially we I think we've said like we were going
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through a lot with like mom being in the hospital and like being sick and then just like life in general. Things are so
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much better now. But during that little period I was pulling tarot cards for myself and then journaling about what
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tarot card cards I got and like why I got them and >> Oh, that's fun. >> It just made me feel like cozy and nice,
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you know? So that's a fun thing to do. >> Yeah, it's a great way to romanticize your day, which I think you absolutely
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should. I think everybody should romanticize [ __ ] I think you should romanticize as much as you possibly can.
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This is just like life advice. >> Life advice and t is the season to romanticize.
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>> Yeah. >> November feels so romantic. >> It does. >> I mean, I got married in November, so
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that's probably why. >> Pretty ro That's about as romantic as it can get. >> Marriage. Yeah.
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>> You know, marriage. Exactly. >> I I did an emphasis on that one. >> You did the marriage.
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>> November. And I do I think I just think like why not >> Yeah. >> Why not romanticize every little thing?
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>> I think you should. It makes you appreciate all kinds of things that you don't appreciate. It does. That you that
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you never knew you could appreciate. >> Does Yeah. Like I don't drink, but at night when I have a little like um like
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wine glass with like my my poppy or my Ollie in it, that feels romanticized. >> That is romanticized.
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>> What do you do to romanticize your life? I you know, I have my very uh fancy coffee that I make in the morning. Now
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>> you do a very >> I'm not doing any like you know I'm not running to Starbucks. No. You know, I'm
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I'm I'm making my own fancy coffee. >> We love to hear it. >> I'm doing my thing. And it's not that
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hard to do. And I feel like I love my I really love my cup of coffee. And now I'm like obsessive about it where like
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no other coffee tastes good. I just want my special cup of coffee. >> I feel that way, too. I was making I got
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the the [ __ ] sugar cookie creamer is back. >> Oh, yes. >> The frosted sugar cookie
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>> back. I didn't think of that. >> Yeah, they have them at like so many different places. I bought I bought two
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because in my mind there was a limit to how many you could buy. >> I like limited myself in that moment and
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I really didn't need to >> self limitations >> but I'd like to go purchase six of them.
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>> You're through accepting limits cuz someone says they're so. >> Thank you so much.
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>> And then someone was you. >> Yeah. [laughter] Unlimited. >> It's true. >> Just me at the grocery store with an arm
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[laughter] full of together. We're unlited. >> That's us together at the grocery
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[laughter] store. is all the sugar cookie match. >> I think we need to do that. [laughter]
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>> Who's the Is it international delay? >> You guys can take that idea as long as
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you send us uh >> so many. >> You don't even have to pay us. You just have to give us the frosted sugar
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cookie. >> Pay us in a bunch of sugar cookie creamers, please. [laughter] >> See, we have manners.
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>> We're polite. We are. Oh, it's so good. So, then I make my own sugar cookie latte and I even have the red and green
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sprinkles. You saw that this morning. [laughter] You said you're back. It's true though. It's It's honestly I feel
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this way. I feel like you should romanticize whatever you can. >> Yeah. >> I feel like don't you know this is just
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more life advice of what I'm doing with an elder >> that's making with an elder. It's true.
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I have an ancient here. [laughter] >> So, and I think don't be so hard on yourself. I feel like this time of year
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everybody gets really hard on yourself. >> Deep into my soul. >> Don't be so [laughter] hard on yourself.
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Habit stack. >> Habit stack. Don't feel like you have to attack a million different things that
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you want to add to your routine right away. I am very guilty of that all the time and then I get overwhelmed.
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>> If you just pick one little thing that you have to accomplish every day. >> Yes.
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>> Write it down. >> Yeah. >> Write it down. Say, "This is the one thing that no matter how messy my
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[ __ ] life gets today and no matter how much shenanigans happens, I'm going to get that thing done." And it can be
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something very tiny. It could be for some people like it could be brushing your teeth.
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>> Brushing your teeth. No matter what is happening, I'm get because you know what? When you do that thing first,
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>> you say productivity. >> Productivity and it leads to more productivity. >> Exactly. I was very productive today cuz
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I got the one thing I said I was going to get done done and then everything after that is cake. So do that. Um, also
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I think we talked about uh a while ago I was saying how like >> I just I I hope everybody just starts
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commenting nice things on videos and posts like instead of just being complete [ __ ] Not not ours. I mean
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on across the internet cuz I've just seen so many like the internet's so gross and it's like
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>> I feel like after you said that though I don't know if it's just like a placebo
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effect but I've seen so much more positivity. >> I have seen a lot and and I'm not saying
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it's me. I'm saying I actually did it. >> I did it. I'm saying I got that notion
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because I started seeing more people doing that and I was like, let's keep that ball rolling.
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>> But um Bailey from the uh Frightful Fandom podcast. >> That's a great name for a
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>> She's also Jiggy Saw Girl on Tik Tok. >> Jiggy Saw Girl. >> She she recently like shouted us out and
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like shouted my book out. >> Oh yeah, you played that for me. >> And she was saying that she had heard
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that episode and also wanted to do that. Um, so throwing it back again, go listen
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to Bailey because Bailey's podcast is great. She goes through goes through horror movies. A lot of them you're a
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lot of them I had never heard of and I like listening to her talk about them and then I'll go watch them.
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>> Oh, that's fun. >> Um, her Tik Tok is awesome. Jiggy Saw Girl. >> That's a great Tik Tok handle.
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>> Yeah, it's like her and Sydney from Horror Chronicles. I'm just >> I love them both
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>> and I feel like I I feel like we're best friends. It's one of those things where
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people will say that to us when when we meet in person, they'll be like, "I feel
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like we're best friends." And I'm like, "I get that." >> Yeah. >> Cuz I too feel like I am best friends
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with Bailey and Sydney and we've never met in real life. >> I just It's a different way of life like
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now because consuming content and like relating to somebody else's content like it does make you feel
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>> and I'm like I want to hang with you. So like go listen to their stuff. They're
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really great. >> The guys that shouted us out that you were showing me, dude, it's
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entertainment obsessed. [laughter] >> I got it's this podcast. It's literally, dude, it's entertainment. Y, it's three
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guys. >> And let me tell you, it is entertainment. >> It's entertainment. They're really
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funny. And they I I saw it because they had tagged us in something cuz I think they had just mentioned one of our
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episodes. And then they had this whole conversation where they were like, "This is kind of a one-sided relationship."
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[laughter] Morphic like we're we're shouting you out. Like they're like, "Hello, where you at?" And I was like,
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"Oh shit." And I thought it was so funny. It kind of like just it like made it a funny little moment that I was
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like, "That was fun. Thank you for tagging me in that. So, like we wanted to shout them out cuz that was really
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funny. >> Yeah, we're all about, you know, just shouting everybody out. >> Just let's just everybody, you know,
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>> be nice to each other. >> We're feeling so kumbaya. >> It's so much nicer to be nice. You feel
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better. >> Oh, it's just great. >> Speaking of being nice, Mikey just looked at me and he said, "Do you want
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another fridge cigarette?" And I said, "Yeah, I do, please." [laughter] And he just handd delivered me a fridge
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cigarette, which if you're confused is a diet coke. >> I was just going to say, cuz that will
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confuse a lot of people. So, >> no. You know what? Not a lot. I feel like a lot of people may be confused.
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It's just like a niche amount of people will be like, "Yeah, [sighs] >> whatever." Um, [laughter] either way, I
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have a fridge cigarette and I'm happy about it. >> That was really kind of Mikey.
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>> It was. >> And then one last thing before we get into it. We're going to be taking next
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Monday and Thursday off. I'm sure you can't imagine why. What is What is going on? Thanksgiving.
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>> Yeah. >> Um, but >> eat some turkey. >> Eat some turkey. I can't wait to eat your turkey. [laughter]
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Oh my god. and the and the everything. And the Are you going to make the pesto bread?
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>> Of course, I'm going to make the pesto. >> Are you going to make the the sweet
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potato thing? >> Of course, I'm going to make the sweet potato. >> Tell us tell us what you're going to
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make really quick and then I'll >> I'm going to make some mac and cheese. I'm going to make the sweet potato
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strusel. Do you know what? I'm going to make my special stuffing. >> With the sausage in it.
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>> With the sausage. One with sausage, one without. >> She makes two stuffings. >> Why do I make two stuffing?
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>> I want I don't even like this, but Oh my god. Wait, we're going to get to the
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episode at some point. I promise. I've been watching the holiday baking championship, which you should start
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watching because it's back. There's been two episodes. >> And I forgot the baker's name. He's
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adorable and I love him. I think he's like a yoga teacher. >> He made a cheesecake that had little
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like mering pumpkins on it. >> And it made it look like it was like a pumpkin patch. And I don't even like
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cheesecake, but I want to make it for everybody. >> I love cheesecake, so I'm for that.
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>> Okay, I'm going to figure out how to make merings. >> Yeah. But yeah, all that to say that we
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are going to be off next week, but it won't even seem like it because for this month, obviously, we take off like the
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week of Thanksgiving. So, I picked two episodes that we're going to reair. So, you'll find out what those are. We'll
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surprise you. >> Um there's like one funny one and one kind of serious one. Very serious one.
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And then in December, Elena gets to pick her two favorite episodes when we take the week of Christmas off.
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>> Yeah. >> Because it's her birth month. >> My birth month. >> Remember that? You were almost named
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Noel. Yeah, >> that's crazy. >> I do remember that. >> You're so not a Noel. It's such a pretty
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name >> and you're a pretty person. >> I [laughter] appreciate that. >> But it's not your name.
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>> Everyone says that. >> Yeah, John said that. He was like, "No, >> I was supposed to be named Ruby."
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>> Yeah, you're not a Ruby. Can you imagine? Ruby Kell doesn't flow. >> We have Ruby.
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>> We have Ruby >> in our room with us. >> I guess I would have had to be Rub Kel,
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which could get confusing because then people would think it's Rub Kel. >> That's true.
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>> Upsetting. >> Good thing I'm Ash Kell. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, I think that's
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everything. >> I think we had all the things. >> My fridge siggy's hidden. >> Starting to hit.
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>> All right, so let's get into it. We're going to be talking about the death of
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Cork Miller today. This is like a a little bit of an oldie. >> I don't know this one.
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>> Well, it's in the '60s >> and it's hotly debated whether this was an accident or murder.
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>> Oh. >> But I have my own little opinions. >> Interesting. >> Um, just at the top, I do want to give
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like a trigger warning. There's going to be a lot of mention of suicide in this.
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So, okay, just know that going into it. >> So, let's start on the night of October
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8th, 1964. Lucille Miller was home. She had just put her three kids to bed, was about to
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get settled on the couch with her husband to just watch some TV. A night we can probably all relate to.
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>> Mhm. >> Um, that afternoon, her husband, Dr. Gordon Cork Miller, had started to feel
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a headache coming on, though, and by the time the kids went to bed, it was a fullblown migraine.
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>> Oh, yeah. >> That's the worst. Unfortunately for Cork, migraines really weren't anything
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new for him. He had been dealing with them for years. And actually, in recent months, he seemed to be getting them
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with like increasing frequency. So, when Lucille asked if there was anything she
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could do to help, he asked if uh she would make him some hot chocolate. A >> which I just think is adorable.
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>> I love that. So, she heads to the kitchen, she pulls down a mug, she goes to the fridge to get the milk, and she
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realizes when she gets to the fridge, [ __ ] they're out of milk. And she was a real one who wasn't going to make well
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in this moment she was a real one who wasn't going to make water hot chocolate because that's disgusting.
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>> And the other thing was that also meant that there wasn't going to be any milk
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for breakfast with the kids in the morning. So it would have been a mess. >> It was late but she kind of had to run
00:14:04
out and get milk before the morning. So she, you know, yelled into Cork that she
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was going to head out to do that. And he was like, "Oh, I'll come with you." So before they left the house, Lucille
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checked in on her daughter, 14-year-old Debbie, to let her know that they were running out and they would be back as
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soon as they could be. [snorts] At that time, San Bernardino, where they were living, was just starting to attract
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younger families looking for like a slower, quieter life outside of LA. So at this point, it was still really
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rural. Later, Debbie remembered my mother came in to tell me they were going down the hill to get milk, but to
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go and get anything was like a 5 or 10 mile trip, so it was going to take a minute.
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>> Yeah. Now, Cork usually would have been the one to drive, but because he had this migraine, obviously, he's not going
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to be operating machinery. >> Mhm. >> So, he slipped into the passenger seat, just still wrapped up in the blanket
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that he had on the couch. Later, Lucille would explain that because Cork was leaning against the door, she was
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concerned it could have opened while they were driving. So, before she started the car, she reached over and
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locked the passenger side door. Okay. It's the ' 60s. >> Yeah. So, according to Lucille, by the
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time they reached the nearest grocery store, it was closed down for the night. So, they had to drive to the 24-hour
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store on the other side of town. >> Okay. >> Cork waited in the car while she ran in
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to get the milk. She came back out about 10 minutes later with two half gallon cartons of milk, and she placed those on
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the floor behind the passenger seat and then headed off to go back home. It was a little after midnight when the car she
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pulled the car onto Banyan Street, which was just a few miles from their house, and she started having trouble steering
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the car. Later, she said that the car pulled to one side, then it jerked hard and she ended up driving off the road.
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Whoa. Yeah, [ __ ] got real. When the car finally came to a stop in a field off the side of the road, Lucille noticed
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that something had caught fire. Whoa. She later would tell a jury, "It was like a movie. There was an orange red
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flame behind me. I was panicked. >> H. >> So, she jumps out of the driver's side
00:16:01
door and she ran around the passenger side to try to pull Cork out of the car. >> Yeah.
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>> But when she got there, she remembered that the door was locked and realized it
00:16:09
in that moment. And he was unconscious at this point. >> So, she's panicking. She searched around
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for a rock that she could use to break the window. >> But when she reached for the door, like
00:16:19
to see what she could do, the entire door was already too hot to the touch. Yeah.
00:16:23
>> So, she wasn't even going to be able to drag him out of there that way. >> Um, and he was still wrapped up in the
00:16:28
blanket, which by then had caught fire. >> Oh, jeez. >> Yeah. So, not knowing what else to do,
00:16:34
she ran back to the road hoping maybe she could flag down a car for help, anything like that. But this road was so
00:16:40
isolated that it was highly unlikely anybody was going to pass her. Damn. So, a minute later, she said she ran back to
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the car just trying to figure out anything she can do in that moment. But by the time she got back to Cork, she
00:16:52
said it was definitely too late. She said he was just just black. That's when I saw the gasoline can. Oh, that's when
00:17:01
I saw the gasoline can. Oh my god. According to Lucille, she had always been very forgetful, especially when it
00:17:08
came to the car and things that had to do with it. And within the last few months alone, she had run out of gas
00:17:14
five or six times. So after the last time a few weeks earlier, Cork insisted that she go out
00:17:20
to the service station and buy a gas can with a few gallons of gas to keep in the
00:17:24
car just in case. >> Not a great plan. >> I was I mean, yeah, >> you don't really want to do that.
00:17:31
>> One might say bad a bad >> one might say the worst. >> A very bad plan. >> So in all the chaos of driving off the
00:17:37
road and the car catching fire, she had forgotten all about the gas can that she
00:17:41
kept in the back of the car. And it wasn't until she ran back to the car and she saw the can laying on its side in
00:17:47
the back >> when she realized that it had spilled out all over the floor and that's why
00:17:51
the car had engulfed in flames. >> I mean, >> so she's like, "It's too late to do
00:17:55
anything to help Cork. Like, she can't get him out of there. She the door's locked. It's too hot to touch. She can't
00:18:00
break the window. Just way too much working against her." >> So, she took off running towards a far
00:18:06
off house in the distance. It was the only light that she could see for miles. When she finally reached the farmhouse,
00:18:12
she started banging on the door until a woman answered and welcomed her inside to use the phone. But rather than call
00:18:19
the sheriff or the fire department or any kind of first responder, she called her lawyer who arrived a
00:18:28
short time later and called the fire department. Universally, that's going to sound
00:18:37
extraordinarily suspicious. Suspish. [laughter] I myself can say with 100% certainty
00:18:50
>> that I would not do that one. >> I would be calling 911% >> in cases where I will say, well, I can't
00:18:59
say >> cuz I haven't been through that. >> I can say with 100% honesty, >> yeah,
00:19:05
>> that the first person I would not call is my lawyer. I love our lawyer. >> I love our lawyer,
00:19:10
>> but I would not call him the first instance. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> So, when they finally arrived to the
00:19:16
scene, sheriff's deputies and firefighters found that the car was still in flames. They were able to
00:19:21
extinguish what remained of the fire, but the metal frame was still way too hot to even touch. So, first responders
00:19:27
had to wait several more hours before they could even remove his body and inspect the wreckage.
00:19:33
There's no way to take a door like to >> Everything's too It Well, so they extinguished everything and the only
00:19:40
thing that was left was like the >> the husk of the car. >> Yeah, exactly. And everything was still
00:19:44
too hot. >> Damn. Yeah, >> that's still weird though. I I wondered. I'm like, isn't there a way to do that?
00:19:49
>> Probably now, >> but 1964, I don't know. >> Yeah, that's true. >> So, when they initially looked at the
00:19:55
scene, everything did seem to corroborate Lucille's account of the accident. In the back of the car, they
00:20:00
found the two half gallon containers of milk. And on the floor in front of the passenger seat, they found the large
00:20:05
rock that she said she used to smash the window. Uh on the ground just outside the car, they found the large branch
00:20:11
turned uh burned on one end that she said she used to try to push her husband out the driver's side door.
00:20:17
>> Like she was trying a lot, it sounds like. >> Yeah. >> And most crucially, they did find a nail
00:20:23
embedded in the right front tire, which they presumed was what had caused the car to go off the road in the first
00:20:28
place. And there were skid marks on the road and tire tracks in the dirt indicating exactly where the car had got
00:20:34
off the road. So everything looks, you know, looks like what she saw. >> Now, there was one thing though that
00:20:41
sheriff's deputies found suspicious. On the floor behind the driver's seat was the can of gasoline.
00:20:46
>> Now, at that time, it actually wasn't that uncommon for people to carry a small amount of gas in their car,
00:20:51
especially in rural areas like this. But what struck investigators was that the can had tipped over on its side and they
00:20:59
wondered how that was possible that that can had tipped over when the car went off the road, but the two half gallon
00:21:05
containers of milk right beside it remained upright. >> Huh. >> Like those are So the
00:21:13
>> And those are half gallons. So those are tall and thin. >> Exactly. >> So they have a you know the point of the
00:21:18
center of gravity. >> Exactly. So, those were behind the passenger seat and the gas can was
00:21:22
behind the driver's seat just to give you a visual. >> So, that one tipped over. The gas can
00:21:27
tipped over, >> but the milk didn't. >> Interesting. >> You would think they would tip in the
00:21:31
same direction. >> You would think they would. [music] [music] So, a little past 6:00 a.m., a sheriff's
00:21:50
deputy drove Lucille home. And from [clears throat] her bedroom window, Debbie, her daughter, could see a patrol
00:21:55
car and immediately started to panic. She said, "At the top of our driveway, a police car was parked where our black VW
00:22:01
bug should have been. So, she ran out to the living room, but with the exception
00:22:05
of her two brothers asleep in their bedrooms, the house was completely empty. She walked quietly down the hall
00:22:10
until she got to her parents' bedroom. And she said the door was open just to crack and she could see that her mom was
00:22:16
inside. Under normal circumstances, she actually wasn't allowed to go inside of her parents' bedroom. But when Lucille
00:22:22
noticed Debbie sitting outside the door or standing outside the door, she beckoned her to come in.
00:22:26
>> Yeah. >> She was curled up in a fetal position on the bed wearing her night gown and
00:22:31
Debbie could tell that she'd been crying. And Lucille had to explain to Debbie what happened.
00:22:35
>> Oh, that's awful. And given how emotional Lucille was at the time, Debbie also realized that it was going
00:22:42
to be her job to tell her brothers, 11-year-old Guy and 9-year-old Ronnie, what had happened.
00:22:48
>> So, she got them from their bedrooms, brought them into the parents' bedroom,
00:22:52
>> and they all just sat there crying while she explained what happened. >> Oh, it's horrible.
00:22:56
>> Sad. >> So, that afternoon, three detectives from the San Bernardino Sheriff's Office
00:23:01
came to the house to keep questioning Lucille about the accident. She repeated the same story that she had told
00:23:06
investigators at the scene earlier, pretty similarly to the how she told it the first time.
00:23:12
>> And she also informed the detective that it had been a particularly difficult
00:23:16
year for them as a family. About 6 months earlier, Lucille's best friend, Elaine Hayton, died at a really young
00:23:23
age, and she left behind a husband and young children. And then just a couple months later, Lucille and Debbie had
00:23:29
actually been in a bad car accident on Banyan Street, not far from where the car had just caught fire. So that's like
00:23:36
two accidents on the same street. >> She was driving when another car didn't stop at a stop sign and plowed into
00:23:42
them. Debbie was thrown into the windshield. Lucille's head slammed into the steering wheel and she ended up with
00:23:48
a fractured jaw. >> Damn. >> And Debbie said, "I was bleeding profusely. My mother thought I lost my
00:23:54
eye because it sliced my eyelid." Holy [ __ ] She almost did lose her eye, but they were actually doctors were able to
00:24:01
repair the damage and she ended up with 50 stitches. >> Wow. >> In her around her eye.
00:24:07
>> Holy [ __ ] >> Isn't that gnarly? >> That is gnarly. >> So, in addition to obviously the
00:24:11
physical pain and the excessive cost of medical care, the accident basically gave Debbie like a PTSD like effect and
00:24:19
she became hyperfixated on car accidents. >> Yeah. I mean, I get it. It's so sad and
00:24:24
this is awful. She remembered, she said, "Weeks after the accident, I asked Daddy
00:24:29
what the odds were that our family would ever have an accident on that street again and he said that would be almost
00:24:34
impossible." >> Oh. >> And then two weeks later, this is what happened. What we're talking about today
00:24:40
>> is maybe he was correct. >> Yeah. >> That's so sad. >> It's so sad. I feel awful for these kids
00:24:47
for a lot of reasons. So, now back at the accident scene, things were starting to look more
00:24:53
suspicious. Not only had the gasoline can been tipped over in the backseat of the car, but from what the arson
00:24:59
investigator could tell, it seemed like it had been poured around the back of the car.
00:25:04
>> Oh. >> Rather than just like tipped over and leaked out >> and then there were the skid marks on
00:25:09
the road. In an accident like the one that Lucille described, investigators expected to see swerving tire tracks,
00:25:16
which makes sense. you're trying to, you know, fight from your car going off the
00:25:19
road, >> of course. >> But these skid marks that were left by Lucille's car were in a straight line.
00:25:25
Like it was almost like she had intentionally driven off the road. >> So finally, and most significantly, the
00:25:31
car's gas tank appeared to be fully intact, meaning that the car had somehow burst into flames and the gas tank of
00:25:39
the car hadn't, which just like doesn't Yeah. Like what how does that work? >> Right. Exactly. M
00:25:46
>> so sheriff's investigators started to suspect that maybe this wasn't an accident at all and maybe Lucille had
00:25:51
intentionally murdered her husband for one reason or another. >> Damn. >> And remember when she ran to the nearest
00:25:57
house for help, she called her attorney before calling for actual help. >> That throws me for a loop.
00:26:02
>> Well, it threw everyone for that. Everybody kept once they started seeing these things at the scene, it was
00:26:09
obviously, you know, making them question everything. And then putting [clears throat] pairing that with the
00:26:13
fact that she didn't call first responders there, it's like >> I mean, yeah, >> did she want a longer time to happen to
00:26:18
make sure that he was really gone? And that's speculation, but >> I don't know. So, the evidence they felt
00:26:25
seemed to indicate that Lucille had rendered her husband unconscious and attempted to push the car over the
00:26:30
embankment to make it look like an accident. But when she found that the car was too heavy to push by herself,
00:26:36
she changed her plan. She poured gasoline in the back and then used the large branch to set the blaze from a
00:26:42
distance. Cuz remember they found that large branch and they were like, "What's this?" Cuz it was charred on the end.
00:26:48
And she said she tried to use it to push cork out of the car, but they were like,
00:26:51
"Did she use it to do that or did she use it to set a a blaze?" >> My god. >> Yeah. What the [ __ ] going on here?
00:26:59
[laughter] >> Yeah. And they said she even drove out to Banyan Street, which she knew from
00:27:03
experience was a remote location, and it would have taken rescue vehicles a much
00:27:08
longer time to reach than your typical street. >> And she was correct because it took
00:27:12
nearly an hour and a half from when the car caught fire to when firefighters actually arrived at the scene, which is
00:27:18
like >> a wild amount of time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And remember, it's also because she
00:27:23
called her lawyer first. >> Damn. So, while detectives considered the evidence, Chief Deputy Coroner
00:27:30
Arnold McCann rushed to get the autopsy finished as fast as he could. According to the autopsy, Cork's cause of death
00:27:36
was smoke inhalation, and the evidence indicated that he was alive when the car burst into flame.
00:27:41
>> Yeah, he was breathing in his own body on fire. >> Yeah. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah, it's horrible. The coroner also
00:27:49
noted that Cork had multiple broken ribs, but he believed that the fractures were caused by the intense heat of the
00:27:54
fire, not the accident, which is like, just to think about that is gnarly. >> Oh, it's awful.
00:28:00
>> So, the new theory was relayed to the detective who was already at the Miller
00:28:04
house, who then had to confront Lucille with all these new discoveries, and he did. But she stuck to her story. She
00:28:11
insisted, "No, this is a terrible accident. I did not orchestrate this in any way." And when they pressed her
00:28:17
further, she quote declined to elaborate on the advice of her attorney, Harold Lance. And she eventually became so
00:28:24
overeotional that she was placed under sedation by her doctor. >> Now, based on the evidence collected at
00:28:30
the scene, though, and her inability to account for the inconsistencies and discrepancies in her story, she was
00:28:36
placed under arrest that afternoon, just 12 hours after his death. >> Makes sense. So, with Lucille being held
00:28:43
on suspicion of murder and refusing to speak with any detectives, investigators started kind of interviewing the
00:28:48
Miller's friends and neighbors, digging into the personal lives, looking for a motive. They're like, "Why did why did
00:28:54
this happen?" >> Yeah. >> So, from the outside, Lucille and Cork Miller had what appeared to be the
00:28:59
perfect American life. Cork made a really good living as a dentist. He had a thriving local practice. Lucille was a
00:29:05
homemaker. She was very active in her kids' lives. Her son Ron said she wanted to do well and be part of a community,
00:29:12
but just like we've heard a million times before in cases like this, things weren't what they seemed. Uh, UCLA
00:29:19
lecturer Verlin Clinkenborg, I so hope I said that correctly, said, "Lucille suffers from something that I think of
00:29:26
as being a particularly California affliction. This is antipathy to the old. You can't just have a different
00:29:32
house. You can't just buy another house. It has to be a new house that nobody's ever lived in before where all the
00:29:37
appliances are untouched. Ah, >> she wants the best of the best. Yep. >> And the newest of the new.
00:29:42
>> Oh boy. >> And it was those big dreams of success and desire to project that appearance of
00:29:47
wealth that had driven them to build the big house that they lived in in San Bernardino County in the first place.
00:29:53
>> Mhm. >> Before they moved out there, they actually lived in Oregon. And when they
00:29:57
moved to San Bernardino, that was their third move in 3 years. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Which is a lot.
00:30:02
>> That's a lot. for three children, too. >> Oh, yeah. >> Debbie said that's their oldest
00:30:06
daughter. Uh, she said, "Our new house was twice as big as our old one." I had the impression the whole point of
00:30:11
building it was so that for the first time my parents' bedroom could be at one end of the house and the kids' rooms at
00:30:16
the other. It's like that's the entire point of building your house. Like, I get wanting more space for like a myriad
00:30:24
of reasons, but at one reason >> like that's strange. >> Yeah. So, the house seemed to move
00:30:31
Lucille. each their own but their own. >> To me that this doesn't >> it doesn't jive.
00:30:36
>> I'm not a mom but when I am I would like to have my children as close as humanly
00:30:40
possible like >> in case of emergency or just anything. >> I don't know. >> So the house seemed to move Lucille one
00:30:47
step closer to attaining that wealth and success that she was craving. But the interior was a very different story.
00:30:53
Debbie said it had taken everything we had and then some to build. The living room was bare except for a green coffee
00:30:59
table with gold legs. And the windows in the kids' rooms remained curtainless, >> which is like so symbolic of how things
00:31:07
were going for this family. The outside of this house is this gorgeous giant home that they've poured all this money
00:31:14
into and then you take a deeper look inside and [clears throat] everything is bare
00:31:19
>> and there's no >> curtains on the kids. Like that's a lot. >> Yeah, that's very much. That's very uh
00:31:25
image focused. Image obsessed. >> Image obsessed for sure. >> So, as investigators dug into the
00:31:31
couple's finances too, they discovered that even though he was making a really nice salary at the time, he's a dentist,
00:31:37
Cork Miller had roughly $65,000 in debt at that time, which in today's Bunny is $700,000
00:31:45
of debt. Holy [ __ ] >> Say that one more time. $700,000 in debt. Holy [ __ ] >> Like I got debt, but I don't got that
00:31:56
kind of debt. >> Not that kind of debt. >> $700,000. >> Damn. >> That would send me into a a spiral.
00:32:05
>> And you are you had to have been in like some kind of debt before you start building that house
00:32:10
>> cuz like >> And you will still take on that project and then like accumulate even more and
00:32:15
you get to the you get to the 700s. >> 700 thou? That's a lot. Yeah. It also turned out that debt and financial
00:32:24
stress weren't the only things affecting the Miller's relationship at the time for years. And this is really sad. Cork
00:32:29
had also been struggling with profound anxiety and depression. And it was like debilitating for him at times. This is
00:32:36
just really sad. One night after Debbie overheard a really bad fight between her
00:32:41
parents, she said her mom came into her room to talk about what she'd heard because she knew that she heard them.
00:32:46
And she just told her flat out, "Daddy wants to die. That's what the fight's about.
00:32:52
That is so [ __ ] up. It's horrible. >> That's like wildly [ __ ] up. >> Truly horrible. It
00:33:00
>> And remember she was like, >> "Oh my god, I hate like that's horrifying." >> She was 14 when her father died. And so
00:33:07
this was like shortly before that. It's like that's way too young to be made aware of that situation between a
00:33:13
married couple. >> And to say it like that. >> Yeah. Just so so blunt like that. and to
00:33:20
that's such like a betrayal of >> your partner. Yeah. >> Like to for them to >> instead of work like you know I don't
00:33:27
that just to just like say it to someone like that like >> it's like a lack of respect. It's a lack
00:33:33
of care >> to put that kind of [ __ ] on your kid. >> Stop putting [ __ ] on your kids.
00:33:40
>> They're kids. >> Yeah. Let them be kids. >> Deal with your [ __ ] yourself. >> Let them be kids. Cuz remember, not only
00:33:44
did she put that on her, what I just said, it was also up to Debbie to let her little brothers know what had
00:33:49
happened to her dad, but he wasn't coming home was put on Debbie. >> Now, Debbie's brother, Ron, had similar
00:33:54
memories of his father's depression, including one occasion where Cork told his two sons that no matter what
00:34:00
happened to him, he knew they would all be together again in heaven. Debbie said, "That's how I learned that my
00:34:05
daddy wanted to take his own life, but loved us so much that he wanted to do it in his car so it would look like an
00:34:11
accident and we would get the insurance." Oh my god, this is so sad. 14 and be aware of that.
00:34:17
>> Oh, that's awful. >> Horrible. So that's what was going on inside. >> Yeah. >> Inside of that beautiful outside of the
00:34:25
house, the beautiful facade. >> Exactly. It is such a facade. >> So during their interviews with
00:34:30
detectives, friends, and acquaintances pretty much corroborated what they had learned. Cork Miller was very depressed,
00:34:36
very overwhelmed, and lately he was doing his best to manage his symptoms with drugs and alcohol. And they also
00:34:42
learned, investigators, that at least some of his feelings of despair and defeat came from the fact that he really
00:34:49
felt an immense pressure to live up to other people's expectations, which is clear in his marriage alone.
00:34:54
>> But when he was younger, he dreamed of training to become an airline pilot. Like that was the number one thing he
00:35:00
wanted to do. But his father said it was unreasonable and was like, "No, you should just become a dentist."
00:35:05
And similarly, Cork usually felt pressured by Debbie, his wife, who always seemed to have expectations that
00:35:10
were much higher than he could achieve. And he was like grinding his last gears to achieve them. He's $700,000 in debt.
00:35:20
>> Mhm. >> So, that depression only seemed to make the tension between him and Lucille even
00:35:24
worse. When they were first married, things between them were good. But over time, their differences and
00:35:29
personalities became more of a problem than probably either of them had ever expected. He was quiet. He was reserved.
00:35:36
He was socially shy. Debbie, she was or sorry, Lucille, she was outgoing. She was incredibly social. She wanted to be
00:35:43
in the mix. >> Yeah. >> And to Debbie, it always seemed like her father had married her mother to make up
00:35:48
for things that he lacked socially. >> Yeah, that makes sense. So by the time kids came along, their marriage really
00:35:54
started to lose its luster. But rather than take their anger out on each other, Cork kind of just retreated into himself
00:36:01
and probably further into depression. And Lucille directed her frustration at the children.
00:36:06
>> Debbie said, "This is really rough and it's a [clears throat] trigger warning
00:36:09
for child abuse, guys." Uh Debbie said, "I was afraid of my parents more than once. My mother slapped me so hard and
00:36:15
so many times across my mouth that my teeth slipped my lips. Beatings with belts hard enough to leave my bottom
00:36:20
completely black and blue and my legs covered in welts were not uncommon. >> That's [ __ ] up.
00:36:26
>> Yeah, >> that's just [ __ ] up. >> Yeah, that's child abuse >> regard. I don't give a [ __ ] That's
00:36:31
>> I don't care what time period it is. I don't care if it's 300 years ago, 50 years ago. It's child abuse.
00:36:38
>> Yeah. Was that the way people did things back then? Absolutely. Was it right?
00:36:43
[ __ ] no it wasn't. Also, it's like this was a very extreme version of the way that people
00:36:48
>> This is That's [ __ ] >> Cuz I know like obviously like spankings and that kind of thing like
00:36:53
>> Oh, yeah. And the belt was like a thing. >> The belt was a thing, but like slapping
00:36:56
your child so hard across their face that their teeth cut their lips open. >> I honestly think
00:37:02
>> Was that that common? >> No. No, I don't think that. I think to be able to do that to a child,
00:37:07
>> you have to have something wrong with you. >> You're you're scary to me. Like that's a
00:37:12
scary person to be able to look at their child >> Yeah. >> and hurt them. >> It's just I've always thought that like
00:37:18
if you can look at your child and physically or emotionally purposely hurt them,
00:37:24
>> I think there's something that needs to be taken care of. >> You shouldn't have children. That is a
00:37:30
scary thing to me. >> It's the same as people who can hurt animals. It's just >> I just can't I don't get it.
00:37:36
>> Children are inherently innocent. Animals are inherently innocent. And being able to rob somebody of their
00:37:43
innocence like that and inflict pain on them, you're diabolical. >> Yeah. There's just something I don't get
00:37:49
it. That's [ __ ] up. >> And that's really sad. >> She knew Debbie knew that it was because
00:37:54
her mom was so frustrated in like her marriage and >> taking it out on her children.
00:37:58
>> Like that's >> that's [ __ ] up. >> Another level. >> That's [ __ ] up. There's no other way
00:38:04
to say it. >> No, there's no there's no way this would ever be okay. But it wasn't even like
00:38:08
this was like disciplinary. It was it was her own [ __ ] that she was putting on.
00:38:13
>> Frustrated and you're uh helpless little being in my house. So I'm just going to
00:38:17
inflict the pain on you cuz you won't hit me back. >> Exactly. >> And it's like that's so diabolically
00:38:22
evil. I can't get over that. >> She's a bad mom. >> Yeah. I was just going to say I mean
00:38:26
that let's just >> We don't say we don't say that. She's a bad mom. >> That's a bad mom in my opinion.
00:38:31
>> Yeah. I mean coming with from somebody with a bad mom. She's a bad mom. >> [laughter]
00:38:34
>> So, when Lucille stopped getting the attention that she craved at home, she started looking for it elsewhere, of
00:38:39
course, cuz she's just [ __ ] miserable. She's a miserable individual. >> During their interview with Cork's
00:38:44
office manager at the dental practice, they learned that about a year earlier, Lucille started having an affair with a
00:38:50
man named Arwell Hayden. >> Wow. >> I don't know if that last name sounds familiar to you. It does.
00:38:57
>> Yeah. Um, that's her best friend, Elaine's husband. >> Oh. >> Who had died. I was a little worried
00:39:03
about that. >> But they were carrying on their affair while she was still alive.
00:39:08
>> Oh. >> Before she died. >> Oh >> yeah. >> So when in >> Wow. It's just getting better and better
00:39:15
over there. >> Better and better. Yeah. So when investigators spoke to Arthwell Hatton,
00:39:20
he admitted to the affair, but he told them it had been over for about 6 months and there was nothing between him and
00:39:24
Lucille. He's also a piece of [ __ ] in my opinion. It's my opinion. It's my opinion. So, the deeper investigators
00:39:30
dug into Miller's finances, the more obvious the affair became. There were receipts for lunches between Lucille and
00:39:36
Hatton. There were motel receipts. There was tons of evidence of their infidelity.
00:39:41
>> Jesus. >> And they also learned that Cork had actually moved out of the house for a
00:39:46
period of time about 6 months earlier. And just 4 months before his death, Lucille had actually filed for divorce
00:39:52
on the grounds of cruelty. >> These poor children. >> Yeah. what the things they went through
00:39:58
is really breaking my heart. >> I hate what they went through. They deserved so much better.
00:40:02
>> Yeah. What a like an upended childhood. >> Yeah. And to move so many times and to
00:40:07
you move into like this bigger and better house and there's nothing inside and you're terrified of your parents
00:40:12
>> fighting with each other. You're hearing that your father wants to die and your
00:40:16
mom's the one telling you, >> she's hitting you in the face so many times that your lip is slit and you have
00:40:21
welts all over your body. Like >> they didn't have a childhood. >> What the [ __ ] They didn't have any. It
00:40:27
doesn't sound like these kids had any moment where they were ever carefree. No. And like that's not child.
00:40:32
>> That's awful. >> So when Lucille was confronted with all this new information that investigators
00:40:36
had dug up, she did admit that yes, she had an affair with Arthwell earlier that
00:40:40
year. Uh she said after his wife died, but she said they had ended things several months earlier. The timeline is
00:40:46
very strange. >> Yeah, >> it seems like they were having an affair before she died, but Lucille didn't want
00:40:51
to admit that. >> No. Uh she said yes, it was true that Cork had moved out and that she had
00:40:56
filed for divorce in July, but she said since then they went to a couple's counselor and they decided that they
00:41:01
were going to work on their marriage. And in fact, they even decided to have a fourth child. And to the surprise of
00:41:08
>> Why? Oh, honey. To the surprise of everybody, she revealed in that moment that she was pregnant.
00:41:16
>> Oh, boy. >> Yeah. Why? you're already kicking the [ __ ] out of the ones you have because you're
00:41:24
frustrated. >> And also, a baby is not going to fix your marriage and your existing
00:41:31
problems. It will only exacerbate them. And also, you're having money problems. Kids cost so much [ __ ] money to
00:41:37
raise. >> Pretty expensive. >> And you're stressed out. Kids are stressful. Like,
00:41:41
>> in no way is that going to solve your problems. >> No. >> But she dropped that bombshell.
00:41:46
>> Damn. So, in less than a week, investigators had gathered a whole bunch of information about Cork and Lucille
00:41:51
Miller. But rather than confirm their suspicions, it only seemed to complicate things. Everything that they learned, it
00:41:57
was like, "Okay, this could go this way or it could go that way." Because on one
00:42:01
hand, Lucille seemed to be an extremely materialistic person who when she was no
00:42:06
longer satisfied at home, decided to get rid of her husband and maybe collect insurance money to start over with a new
00:42:11
man. But at the same time, they were like, if that's the case, why did she halt the divorce proceedings and also
00:42:19
agree to have a baby? >> Yeah. Especially since, by all accounts, Arthwell Hatton had broken things off
00:42:24
with her in like no uncertain terms. >> Yeah. Like, what the [ __ ] So, it seemed
00:42:28
like the affair had happened, but it was very much over and things were being worked on at home. So, why would she
00:42:33
suddenly kill her husband? >> They were just going back and forth between everything. And then there was
00:42:39
also the matter of Cork's profound depression and his desire to end his life, which was a running theme
00:42:44
throughout all of this. You know, mental illness was not usually talked about openly back then.
00:42:50
>> Oh, yeah. No, >> but it seemed like Cork really didn't make any attempt to hide his symptoms,
00:42:55
and he really didn't make any attempt to hide the fact that he wanted to end his
00:42:59
life at all. Like, it came up in a lot of conversations. >> His mental health was so bad that even
00:43:05
the kids knew what his mental state was. And on multiple occasions, Lucille had actually instructed them personally if
00:43:12
she was gone to keep an eye on him, their father, to make sure that he didn't attempt to do anything to
00:43:18
himself. >> Oh my god. Yeah. So, given that, investigators had to wonder whether
00:43:23
their initial impressions had been wrong. Was it possible that rather than a murder for profit with the whole
00:43:29
insurance of it all, maybe Lucille had actually just simply agreed to help end her husband's suffering in a way that
00:43:35
would guarantee twice the insurance payout by triggering the accident double indemnity clause of their policy?
00:43:42
>> Oh, this is so messy. >> It's so >> this is just twisted. >> So messy. >> And remember, Debbie had been made aware
00:43:48
at a certain point that he did want to die in a car accident so that he wasn't leaving his family with nothing. Yeah.
00:43:56
>> So since her arrest, >> which can also lead to a little bit of suspicion that it's like, well, he's
00:44:01
made that known, so this wouldn't come as a shock if this was the case. >> Exactly. That's the problem is it's like
00:44:07
is a lot about like this could go a million different ways. And I I don't I I said at the beginning
00:44:15
of this that I have my own opinions, but I think as I'm presenting it, my opinion
00:44:18
has changed for like the third time even reading it >> because it's like him being wrapped up
00:44:24
in a blanket and like just going along to buy some milk when he had like a blistering migraine.
00:44:30
>> Yeah. >> Is sus. That >> you have migraines so you can speak to this. >> That part immediately caught me as
00:44:38
>> Same. I I might have even been quiet during that because in my head I was trying to sus out.
00:44:43
>> You're like calculating it. >> How I would ever do that or why I would ever do that
00:44:48
>> because when you have a migraine, you literally like some people can't even open their eyes or hear sound or
00:44:53
>> I need to be when my migraine really hits. I have to go in a dark soundless room.
00:44:59
>> It has to be cool and I have to have something vice gripping my head. And a lot of I know people who get migraines
00:45:05
and they say very similar circumstances that they need to be >> and I by no means want to go anywhere
00:45:10
>> or like in a car especially >> and wrapped in a blanket. I'm not going why why am I doing that? I just going to
00:45:18
be wrapped in a blanket at home in a dark room. That's what I want to do. >> Yeah.
00:45:22
>> But then on the same side of things, it's like did she want him to come with her because she was afraid all the kids
00:45:28
were asleep and he might do something if she left the house, which is valid. It's all very tough.
00:45:35
>> Yeah. I don't know. >> And investigators are having a tough time with it. [music]
00:45:49
>> [music] >> Since her arrest the day of Cork's death, they were fairly convinced that
00:45:55
she had killed her husband, but they just weren't sure if it was for money or to pursue another relationship or
00:46:01
because she was helping Cork. >> There's a lot of possibilities. >> I mean, yeah, there is.
00:46:06
>> I think she killed him, but why? >> Yeah. But after learning about Cork's long history of crippling depression and
00:46:11
anxiety, it was starting to seem possible that their initial theories could all be very wrong. And it was very
00:46:17
much the latter that was the situation. >> And now there was also the matter of the
00:46:21
baby to consider because she's pregnant. >> Oh yeah. >> Would a woman who really seemed to be
00:46:26
open and trying to reconcile with her husband and grow their family really change her mind all of a sudden and turn
00:46:32
to murder? >> I don't know. It's possible. >> You mean you I don't know. Maybe she
00:46:37
wanted to do it on her own. >> Yeah, you don't know. >> I mean, I can't really imagine that she
00:46:41
would want to do it on her own back then because >> No, I mean, >> imagine anything to do with this to be
00:46:49
>> She doesn't She's a homemaker. Like, she doesn't have >> like she's not out in the work field,
00:46:54
you know, and then she's about to have a new baby, >> so she's going to have to be at home
00:46:58
with the baby. She's going to have >> no income, but then at the same time, that makes that insurance policy even
00:47:04
shinier. I don't know. >> Yeah. So, the problem wasn't so much that they couldn't settle on one theory
00:47:09
over another. That's just our problem over here. It was that the evidence didn't support any of their theories, at
00:47:14
least not beyond a reasonable doubt to prove in court. >> Before the week was out, Lucille had had
00:47:20
been charged with first-degree murder, and the case was sent to the grand jury. Assistant District Attorney Don Turner
00:47:25
told a reporter, "This defendant is either guilty of a heinous premeditated murder or nothing. We feel the evidence
00:47:31
is ample to indicate that the defendant is guilty of first-degree murder. It couldn't be anything else but
00:47:36
first-degree murder. Like, well, you just said yourself literally nothing. >> But okay. Oh, okay. Okie dokie. Done.
00:47:43
So, a week later, when the case was sent to a grand jury, they agreed with the district attorney and they returned an
00:47:49
indictment for murder. >> Damn. >> Among the more compelling evidence presented to the jury was the coroner's
00:47:54
report, which not only listed the cause of death as murder, but also indicated that at the time of his death, Cork had
00:48:00
quote evidence of some sort of barbituates in his stomach. Oh, so that seems fishy on first glance, but just on
00:48:10
the other side of things, he was known to have abused barbituates regularly to manage the symptoms of his migraines and
00:48:16
>> Okay. >> probably his depression and anxiety. >> Yeah. >> So, but that could go either way.
00:48:22
>> It absolutely could. You can see both sides of that >> because sure, maybe you can argue both
00:48:26
sides. Maybe he does struggle with addiction to these things, but then it's also super easy for somebody to pop that
00:48:31
in a drink if they want to get rid of him. >> Absolutely. >> Or, you know, give him a double dose
00:48:35
without his knowledge because maybe he's already not in his right state of mind.
00:48:39
>> Yeah, for sure. So, that's the thing. The presence of a a sedative in Cork System wasn't the only compelling
00:48:45
evidence presented to the grand jury. There was also extensive testimony given by WA Snare, which is an awesome name.
00:48:52
>> That is a great name. He was an automobile arson expert at the time who was called by the prosecution. And
00:48:57
according to Snare, the fire was set of incendiary origin, meaning that it had been deliberately set with the aid of an
00:49:04
accelerant, in this case, gasoline, rather than an explosion like one might expect in a car accident.
00:49:10
>> Yep. So, that's a big [ __ ] deal. >> That's a huge [ __ ] deal. And remember, they have that charred branch
00:49:16
which she says she used to poke him. But then investigators wondered, did she, you know, like set that on fire and then
00:49:23
put it in the car knowing that the gasoline was in there already? Which it's like that does seem like it could
00:49:30
be what happened cuz it's a little weird. >> But again, you can see both sides. So you can see
00:49:38
both sides. I personally, it's my opinion, feel that I can see one side a little bit more than the other because I
00:49:45
I will admit I don't know how big a man Cork was. I would never think that I could use a branch to poke Drew out of a
00:49:52
burning vehicle. That was one of my like biggest things with that argument that I
00:49:59
was thinking as well is like but then I then my brain was like cuz I'm trying to like devil's advocate I
00:50:05
guess >> like you're desperate. Like I'm sitting there and I'm like, "Okay, but would I
00:50:08
just do anything to try to >> I'm sure you would do anything, but like if she smashed the window and you're
00:50:16
trying to like pull him out that way and that's not working, why would like if your full body weight isn't being able
00:50:21
to pull him out, >> then you're not going to be able to push him with a branch. That's the thing. And
00:50:25
that's like I don't know if you're thinking logically like that. I don't and I'm think obviously I'm thinking of
00:50:31
it as an real accident that >> nothing was intended by this and that you are genuinely trying to save your
00:50:38
husband. >> I don't know. It's tough. It's a tough case because I'm sitting here being like
00:50:45
I feel like I would do anything to get him out of there. But I'm like >> but then you also have to add on the
00:50:51
fact that she's pregnant. >> She's pregnant. >> She has to be like super careful and she
00:50:55
knows she knew at that time that she was pregnant. That's a tough one. >> It's tough. This case, it's a tough
00:51:00
case. >> So, that was that was really big for the grand jury, though, hearing that this
00:51:06
was a deliberately set fire. >> According to experts, yes, this fire was deliberately set. Cork had been sedated
00:51:13
and his door was locked to prevent his escape. That was the other thing. >> They said the motive was clear,
00:51:18
especially to uh District Attorney Turner there. He said Lucille had been having an affair with Arthwell Hayden
00:51:23
and when he called it off, she was desperate to win him back. Add to the family's documented financial problems.
00:51:29
As far as Turner was concerned, this entire thing resulted in first-degree murder. It had all the makings of it.
00:51:34
>> I mean, >> she's having an affair. He's her husband who was just killed in a fire that was
00:51:39
deliberately set has barbituates in his in his system. And like >> I mean when you lay it all out, it's
00:51:47
like it's you could lay it all out with that argument and also 100%. >> That's the thing I was missing. They're
00:51:53
having financial problems. Like that's insur. Whenever there's insurance payouts involved, it can get so scary.
00:52:00
>> So here's the thing. Lucille's first trial began in early December. But on December 8th, there was a mistrial
00:52:07
declared after several local newspapers published what the judge uh Judge Carl Hillard described as inflammatory and
00:52:15
potentially influential articles about the case. >> So a new trial date was set for January
00:52:20
11th. When the new trial started in January, the prosecution laid out their simple theory for the jury. Assistant
00:52:26
District Attorney Don Turner said in his opening statement, "Evidence will show that Dr. Miller made a lot of money. The
00:52:32
evidence will also show that that was not enough for Mrs. Miller." About a year ago, Mrs. Miller began looking on
00:52:38
Arthwell Hatton as the type of man she wished her husband were. But there were a couple problems. She was married. He
00:52:44
was married. LA. And he went on to tell the jury, I added the line for, you know, special effect, but he went on to
00:52:50
tell the jury about a lunch that Lucille and Arthwell Hayden had in April of 1964
00:52:56
where she proposed marriage. And not only did he flatly reject her, but that was when he ended the relationship.
00:53:03
>> Oh. >> Turner told the jury, "The evidence will show that 3 or 4 days later, Mrs. Hatton
00:53:09
died, and this removed one of the impediments to marriage." Oh, yeah. So, he's essentially trying to
00:53:17
I don't know what the circumstances are of the death because she nothing ever came of it. Like, uh, Lucille was not
00:53:24
charged in any way for Ellen's death, but >> this this prosecutor here is very clearly trying to make it seem like
00:53:32
>> there's a connection here. >> Yeah. >> That at least at the very least, >> isn't it a coincidence
00:53:39
>> that the that was removed? >> Yeah. on both sides now. Oh yikes. Yikes. So according to the
00:53:51
prosecution, Lucille Miller had not only murdered her husband for money, but also
00:53:55
to remove what she believed was the only remaining obstacle to being with Arthwell Hatton.
00:54:01
>> But the defense argued that she accepted their relationship was over and she was
00:54:05
willing to repair things with Cork. In his statement, defense attorney Edward Foley agreed that or sorry, he did not
00:54:12
agree. He actually argued that it was not murder at all, but it may have in fact been an elaborate suicide arranged
00:54:19
by Cork. Foley said she's innocent of this crime, and the only case they have is poor circumstantial evidence. Like
00:54:26
the investigators before him, the biggest problem for Don Turner, the district attorney, was that the evidence
00:54:31
didn't point conclusively in any direction. It really was completely circumstantial and when taken together,
00:54:38
it only indicated that Lucille was there when Cork died. >> You know, yeah, >> it was true that there were certain
00:54:44
aspects of the situation that didn't look good for her that we've gone over all of them. The gasoline can, for
00:54:48
example, was found to have been purchased just a few days before Kirk's death. >> Oh.
00:54:54
>> But those things didn't exactly point to murder. >> Yeah, of course. So given that, he had
00:54:59
to lean harder on the prosecution's belief that Lucille Miller was a greedy woman whose obsession with another man
00:55:05
had led her to murder. That was going to be their best argument. >> Mhm. >> So in his examination of several
00:55:09
witnesses, from Lucille's doctor to her friends, even a lady who lived in their house at one time, like uh rented a
00:55:16
room, Turner framed Lucille as a cheater who didn't care who got hurt as long as
00:55:20
she got what she wanted. Now during his testimony, Lucille's doctor, Dr. Edwin Ford told Turner that Lucille threw
00:55:28
herself at Hatton and bragged about her affair in front of others. >> Oh. >> Eventually, the testimony became so
00:55:34
sensational and elicited such an excited response from the jury that the judge had to threaten to clear the courtroom
00:55:41
on at least two occasions. >> Holy [ __ ] >> [ __ ] was clutching their pearls. >> I was just going to say, "Oh, damn.
00:55:47
>> I can hear the Can't you just hear them like [screaming] >> Yep. >> My stars." So Lucille's declarations of
00:55:55
love for Hatton weren't just limited to the gossip between friends and acquaintances. At one point in the
00:56:00
trial, uh Turner there presented the jury with a recording of a telephone call between Lucille and another one of
00:56:07
her friends, Dr. Irwin Springle, where they discussed Hatton ending his relationship with Lucille. Among other
00:56:13
things, Lucille can be heard to imply that she didn't accept that the relationship was over and that she
00:56:18
wasn't above blackmailing him to get what she wanted. Holy [ __ ] On the recording, she can be heard saying, "I
00:56:24
said, "If you'd like the minister and everybody else up there to know what Elaine said the night she died and see a
00:56:29
receipt from a motel and a few other things, little boy, you just keep this up." Wow.
00:56:35
>> I'm like, "What happened on the night that Elaine died?" What the [ __ ] Hello.
00:56:40
That's what I'm wondering. >> Yeah. So, when he was called to testify, Arthwell Hatton acknowledged that yes,
00:56:47
he and Lucille had an affair. I can't imagine being him sitting up there. Like, nobody likes you, brother. Nope.
00:56:52
>> He So he said, "Yes, we had an affair, but he said it ended about 6 months before Cork was killed."
00:56:57
>> Damn. >> And he didn't ever recall telling Lucille that he loved her. He said, "I
00:57:01
may have whispered sweet nothings in her ear, but I never went so far as saying I
00:57:05
loved her." >> Which like, so I I did just say, "Imagine being him in this moment. Now,
00:57:10
please imagine being seal on the receiving end of that." >> She's down bad right now.
00:57:14
>> Yeah, she is like [ __ ] >> She certainly is. So, uh, Hatton claimed that he insisted Lucille Lucille not
00:57:21
divorce her husband because there was no future between them. And when pressed further, he told the prosecutor that
00:57:27
yes, he was having a sexual relationship with Lucille, but he was quote, "not romantically inclined with Miss Miller
00:57:33
and never intended that the relationship be anything more than physical." Oh, this this sounds like a woman's scorn.
00:57:40
Can you imagine sitting in the [ __ ] courtroom while you're on trial for murder and you're What's like the What's
00:57:45
a male mistress? Mister >> I'm googling. >> Yeah, maybe a mister. >> It's got to be better than that. What?
00:57:53
>> Paramore is I like that. What is a male mistress called? >> Oh, Paramore is among the top.
00:58:00
>> Is it Paramore? >> Oh, lover. >> A lover. >> I like I love Paramore, but I love Lava.
00:58:05
>> Yeah. So, your lover is just sitting across there. So, he ain't love you. Ooh,
00:58:09
>> that that hurts. >> Oof. >> So, she's sitting there. She's sitting there. She's listening to everybody talk
00:58:14
[ __ ] about her and, you know, say they don't love her and that they just wanted
00:58:17
to fuke. >> Awesome. >> Then on February 16th, Lucille took the stand in her own defense, which is, you
00:58:23
know, putting it nicely because she really didn't do herself any favors when it came to defending herself.
00:58:28
>> She did not. >> Over the course of two days of testimony, she walked the jury through
00:58:31
the night of Cork's death, basically like moment by moment. But on multiple occasions, the prosecution asked several
00:58:37
questions that if anything, only made things more confusing for the jury. >> Whoops. Like when Lucille described how
00:58:43
she threw the the rock through the window, Turner asked her, "Well, if you threw it through the front window,
00:58:48
wouldn't it just hit his head?" >> Which is like pretty valid. I mean, yeah, it would.
00:58:54
>> It would probably. >> Yeah. >> So So like >> Yeah. This is I can't I can't win this.
00:59:02
>> It's tough. >> I can't win this. I mean, so this is >> this is one of the the most like I can
00:59:10
every argument makes sense. >> Yeah. >> No, every angle >> and it's also like okay, but like even
00:59:16
if it hit his head, like >> at least I could still try to get him out of the car. Like I
00:59:23
>> she was probably hoping that she didn't if if it is the case that she threw the
00:59:27
rock through the through the window to make sure that she could get him out. She probably was like aiming to not hit
00:59:32
his head. She could have thrown it at an angle, I guess. >> That's the thing. I mean, like,
00:59:36
>> that was kind of like a dick move question. But if you're sitting on the jury, Yeah.
00:59:41
>> you're like, >> it makes you think, >> you know? Exactly. >> Being on a jury would be so difficult.
00:59:46
>> It would. >> It would be so difficult. >> I don't think I could do it. I'm the
00:59:50
most I would literally just list Gemini as the reason that I couldn't because I'm like, babe, I'm indecisive.
00:59:56
>> So, the prosecution's case against Lucille was based partially on evidence, but a lot of it relied on her own
01:00:01
behavior. particularly especially with the affair that she was carrying on in 1964. People were also still struggling
01:00:09
with the idea that a woman would even commit murder. >> So if assistant DA Turner there really
01:00:14
wanted to convince them otherwise, he needed to make Lucille out to be not just unfaithful to her husband, but
01:00:20
maliciously so. >> Mhm. But his problem that he was facing was that the evidence also didn't
01:00:27
exactly support that theory and neither did the testimony from people who knew her. Like they were like, "Yeah, she
01:00:33
cheats on her husband." You know, like she was she definitely a woman scorned, but I don't know if that was why she
01:00:38
killed her husband and I don't even know if she killed her husband. >> Yeah. So frustrated and worried that he
01:00:44
might lose the case, the prosecutor's office planted a story in the local press that suggested suggested never
01:00:51
explicitly stated that Lucille had been with Elaine on the night of her death and very casually implicated that
01:00:59
Lucille maybe was involved in Elaine Hayden's death. Holy [ __ ] The prosecution's office like what planted
01:01:07
this story. >> What babe? What? So, at the end of February, uh, after about two months of
01:01:13
testimony, the prosecution, after they were done planting stories, rested rested their case against Lucille
01:01:19
Miller. In his closing statement, Don Turner told the jury, "This woman is capable of anything. She's a manipulator
01:01:25
and a user of men to get what she wanted." >> Holy [ __ ] Now, it's impossible to know
01:01:30
how much the planted story influenced the jury. But on March 6th, after 4 days of deliberation, the members of the jury
01:01:37
emerged to find Lucille Miller guilty of firstdegree premeditated murder. >> Damn.
01:01:44
>> When the verdict was announced, she lowered her head and quietly said, "Oh my god, no."
01:01:48
>> Cuz remember, she's going to prison pregnant. >> Holy [ __ ] >> And her children don't have anybody now.
01:01:56
>> No. >> Like that's so [ __ ] up. >> That's crazy. behind Lucille among the spectators, her daughter Debbie burst
01:02:02
into hysterical tears, of course. And when the jury exited the room into the hallway, they were rushed by a family
01:02:08
friend who screamed at them that they were murderers. >> Oh man. >> Yeah, it's this whole case is just so
01:02:14
sad. >> That's really sad. So, a few weeks later, she returned Lucille returned to
01:02:19
the courtroom where the superior court judge Edward Faulk sentenced her to life in prison at the California Institution
01:02:26
for Women. Now, with their father having been killed or, you know, died, how, whichever way you want to look at it,
01:02:33
and their mother now in prison for his death, Lucille and Cork's three children were placed with a family friend, Joan
01:02:39
Lance, and her husband, who Debbie had never met before. >> And the boys only knew this person by
01:02:44
sight, >> like they had seen her around. >> Sad. When Lucille's fourth child, Kimmy,
01:02:49
was born in June of 1965, she was also placed with the Lances, and eventually they became the legal guardians to all
01:02:55
four of the children. Debbie said years later, they meant for us to be together.
01:03:00
We were never grateful. >> So, it doesn't sound like things were better. >> Oh my goodness.
01:03:05
>> In the years that followed, the Miller children all seemed to struggle in one
01:03:09
way or another. Kimmy sadly died of lung cancer when she was just 25 years old. Wow.
01:03:14
>> And left behind two children. Debbie, Ron, and Guy all decided not to have children, and they did their best to
01:03:20
maintain a connection with each other and their mom, but it wasn't always easy. This was a very
01:03:26
complicated family dynamic, to say the least. >> Now, a year after her verdict was
01:03:30
announced, Lucille did appeal the conviction to the state supreme court, but they upheld the verdict. The next
01:03:35
year in October of 1967, she appealed her case to the Supreme Court of the US, arguing, among other things, that her
01:03:42
lawyer hadn't had equal access to several of the state's witnesses and that the sheriff had planted someone in
01:03:48
her holding cell to try to get a confession from her, which was none of this was ever revealed during the trial.
01:03:54
In their conclusion, the justices wrote, "Such deliberate police deception and subversion of a defendant's rights
01:03:59
should not be condoned." But it was determined that the incident likely had no influence over the jury's decision in
01:04:05
the case, and they upheld the verdict. >> Damn. >> So, on May 10th, 1972, Lucille Miller
01:04:11
was actually parrolled after serving 7 years, which was the minimum of her sentence.
01:04:15
>> Wow. >> And during her time in prison, she worked as a secretary, and she got
01:04:19
enough experience through that that she was able to find work when she was released. And after that, she really
01:04:24
just kept a low low profile. She declined interviews, didn't really like live in the public eye in any way. And
01:04:31
on November 4th, 1986, she died after a short battle with breast cancer. And she
01:04:36
died having always maintained her innocence. >> Wow. >> So, who I knows don't happen to think at
01:04:47
all about their case except that it's awful. >> It's awful. It's it's just no matter
01:04:53
what happened, even before it happened, it was such a dark, >> sad environment in that house.
01:05:00
>> That's the thing. >> And then after it, it happened, it was a million times worse, I'm sure.
01:05:05
>> Oh, it's awful. >> And these kids just went to live with strangers. And based on what Debbie
01:05:10
said, it didn't sound like it was awesome. >> Oh, that's awful. >> Like they tried to keep us together, but
01:05:14
we were never grateful. >> Oh my god, that's so dark. >> It is. >> That is so [ __ ] bleak.
01:05:20
>> It is. It's so bleak and it's just like it adds to the bleakness of the entire
01:05:25
story that it's a mystery. >> Wow. >> Nobody like you there are theories and we can all you know theorize but
01:05:33
>> nobody really knows what happened to him and that's just really sad. Like that's
01:05:37
such a sad way to die where there's just no conclus. >> Everyone can just theorize their own
01:05:44
things and that nothing's conclusive. >> Yeah. and those kids like with everything they had to deal with and
01:05:50
then also to not know Yeah. what happened. >> Mhm. >> [ __ ] It's sad. It's really really a
01:05:57
tragic case. Wow. >> I'm going to I'm going to need a palette cleanser. >> Yeah. Well, perfect that you should say
01:06:05
palette cleanser. We are releasing Listener Tales early for you guys. Uh normally it would have come out on I
01:06:11
think Thanksgiving or like right around then. >> So, we decided to release it a week
01:06:15
early for you people. Thank goodness. I need it. >> Yeah. And you guys need it, too.
01:06:19
>> You guys need it now. I need it. We all need it. >> After presenting this, >> we also have some really funny costumes.
01:06:24
>> I cannot wait for this one. That is so exciting. >> Mine is more topical than I even
01:06:28
imagined. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. >> And yours is just always topical. >> Is always on on brand.
01:06:33
>> Yeah. I cannot wait to see you in that costume. >> I also can't wait. >> I cannot wait.
01:06:39
>> So, get ready for that. >> And with that being said, we hope you keep listening, honey. And we hope you
01:06:44
>> keep it weird. >> Don't keep it this weird or this dark or this sad. Keep it so weird that you
01:06:51
romanticize your life. >> Exactly. And comment nice things on people's nice posts.
01:06:56
>> Do that. Thank you. [music] Come again. >> Bye. >> [music] [music] [music] [music]
01:07:49
[music] [music] [music]