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Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And
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this is Morbid in the morning.
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[Music]
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We haven't done one of these in a little
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while. I know. I had a merch idea this
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morning. Actually, when I was driving
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here, I was like, "Oh, I get to say that
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it's morbid in the morning. We should
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just do like a shirt that says like
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morbid in the morning." Like like maybe
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like embroidered on like the shirt with
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like a little coffee cup. That's how I
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pictured it, too. I love that. Yay.
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We'll do that. We'll do that someday.
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Yeah, we'll do that someday. I love that
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idea. Thank you. I had a strange dream
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last night and I don't remember the the
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dream itself. Um, this is going to sound
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so random, but I remember in the dream
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someone was using PEMDAS to solve an
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equation. Oh my god. Parentheses,
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exponents, multiplication, division,
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subtraction. Addition, subtraction.
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Addition, subtraction. Yes. And I woke
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up and I said, "What is the E in
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PEMDAS?" That was the first thought I
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the first thought I had this morning. I
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rolled over and I looked at John and I
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said, "Do you remember what the E is in
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PMEDAS?" And he was like, "You just
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opened your eyes." Like, "What do you
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mean?" And I was like, "How dare you
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assault me?" He literally was like,
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"What are you talking about?" And I was
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like, "Pemas, you know how you like
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solve big Oh, yeah." But it was
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literally he had just opened his eyes
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and he was like, "I remember what PEMDAS
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is." And I was like, "Exponent." And he
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was like, "What is happening?" Like he
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was like, "We're not even out of bed
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yet." to the power of baby. But I was
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like exponent and I remember it now. And
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then I got really happy that I
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remembered it and then I was like that
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was the weirdest set of events. One
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thing I was really good at in school was
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math. Weirdly. Yeah, that's I mean I was
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not great at math. I [ __ ] heavy with
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PEMDAS. I'm struggling. I'm trying to
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help the girls with their maths. Well,
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that's not our math. But even like the
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the basic [ __ ] like they started
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learning fractions and I was like, "Oh,
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[ __ ] me right up." I'm pretty um great
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at fractions. It's not my favorite. I'm
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figuring it out. Honestly, I just think
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of baking. Well, that's honestly I think
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baking has helped me cuz I'll like just
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be But the problem is when you're
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baking, I have like a Google Home thing.
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So, I'll just be like, "Hey, Google,
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what's like how do I make like blah blah
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blah out of blah blah blah." So, you
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don't do like you don't exercise that
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part of your brain anymore. Yeah. And
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they're doing like full on like you
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know, right? But, you know, we're
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getting there. We're learning math.
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There you go. And oh, I have something
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to tell you guys. Um, that's just like a
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fun little thing. I'm not We're not
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being paid by this company. I just
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really like this thing. See, I do too.
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They can be a sponsor if they want to,
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but they're not. I mean, we're both very
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passionate. They Yeah. So, this is I
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found this in case I feel like a lot of
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people could use this right now just
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with the state of the world. Um, it's
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this app that's like described as a
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self-care Tamagotchi, which it literally
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is, which immediately drew me into it. I
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said, "Yes." And it's called finch. F I
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N C H. Like the bird. So cute. And you
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literally take care of this little bird
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by doing things for yourself. And like
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you let And it's a very good app. Like
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it's really good. I've been using it for
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two full weeks now. Same. And it's like
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actually helping me be more mindful. So
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basically you just kind of like list out
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things that you would like to accomplish
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for the day. They literally give you a
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list to begin with. And one of those
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things is get out of bed. So it's like
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you you don't have to shoot for the
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stars. Like it's and you can check that
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off. I got out of bed and it gives you
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like a yay, you did it. And so like I
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have like you know drinking a certain
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amount of water and making sure I do
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that like read for 10 minutes, write for
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20 minutes, like make sure I have all
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these little like you know and you can
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say like you know brush your teeth.
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Yeah. Some of mine are like home-cooked
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meal like eat dinner at home. Some of
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them are like I have put one item away
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that is not in its place because like
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with kids things just get wild in the
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you know and so doing that is like
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something that can start you on like
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organizing somewhere. One of them is
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smile at yourself in the mirror. I love
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that. Which actually really it sounds
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weird and it sounds crazy but it it can
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bring you up a little bit. Yeah. And not
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just like smile at yourself in the
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thing. Definitely not won't do anything.
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Look at yourself and genuinely smile at
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yourself in the mirror and it will give
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you a little boost of like chip skylark
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in the mirror, babe. There you go. Like
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do it. Yeah. Your shiny teeth and you.
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It's true. I have turn off notifications
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for an hour. Oh, I love that. Which is
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great. I don't need to have that as a
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goal. I just do that. Yeah, I usually do
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that, but I I literally like phone
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upstairs. Don't even Oh, do not disturb
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is my [ __ ] Especially on the weekends.
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If you can't get in touch with me, I'm
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on do not disturb. Do not disturb. I
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have take a short walk without
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distractions. I have my kids my hour
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walk every day on mine and you So like
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you check them off and it gives your
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little bird energy and your little bird
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goes on adventures every day and then
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tells you about it at the end of the
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day. They discover something new. Yeah.
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And it's just like it's a cute little
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thing. It might help you just like check
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off some little things that you would
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like to make habits out of or try try to
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just, you know, make yourself feel good.
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I also highly recommend it. Yeah. I feel
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like it's good for like kids, too. Like,
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you know, like if you're like
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13-year-old or whatever, how however old
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your kid is that has a phone. It's like
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a good app to like teach them, you know,
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like do things for yourself. Selfcare.
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Exactly. And it's turning like healthy
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things into routines. I have literally
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like workout for 15 minutes on there cuz
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it's literally like just move for 15
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minutes. So I I highly recommend it. And
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again, we're not being sponsored by
00:06:02
then. This is just this is just one of
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those recommendation moments that I
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think would benefit a lot of people. So
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yeah. No, Elena told me about it and
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I've used it every day since. Oh, and
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there's also a little thing. This this
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made me happy. Yeah, there's like even
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more stuff than just there's a lot of
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Yeah, there's a lot of things that you
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can do on here. So, I I recommend you
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download it and kind of explore it a
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little bit. Check it out because there's
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something called like um like they have
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like breathing techniques. Those are
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nice. They have movements like they
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they'll give you little things to get
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yourself moving for 10 minutes or
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something. Um they have soundscapes you
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write down reflections and journal
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entries and thoughts and they have a
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first aid kit which is if you're feeling
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very anxious or if something happened
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that upset you or or put you in some
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type of way like you're panicky. Yeah.
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Like you can it can help you just like
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get through it. Like there's a rant
00:06:50
zone. There's grounding exercises. Oh, I
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did the rant zone the other day. Yeah.
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There's like what would you say to a
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loved one? And it's directing compassion
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inwards toward yourself because
00:07:01
sometimes I can be mean to me. Um so
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that it was very helpful because
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sometimes you know people can trigger
00:07:08
you. Yeah. And sometimes you're your own
00:07:10
worst critic anyway. Yeah. And it and it
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helps you like not take in all the
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yiness on the outside. Yeah. And if it
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helps you like work through it if if
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some leaks through. Yeah. So, hey Finch,
00:07:21
if you want to sponsor Finch, we're kind
00:07:23
of obsessed with you. A pretty good a
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good advertisement. And we forgot to
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tell you the best part. You get to name
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your little bird. Oh, yes. Mine's name
00:07:29
is Gatsby and mine is Big An. Thank you.
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So guys, download it. I I just highly
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recommend it if you're looking for
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something Yes. to help yourself there.
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And it it's been helpful to me. I like
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it. It's very cute. It's great. And it's
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made me more mindful of things like
00:07:45
certain things because I'll look and
00:07:46
I'll be like, "You haven't read for 10
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minutes. When can you schedule that in?"
00:07:50
I should put that on mine because I've
00:07:51
been not keeping up with my reading
00:07:52
lately. Yeah. And it's it's really
00:07:54
helpful. Yeah. I love that. So, Finch,
00:07:56
everybody. Hell yeah. Yeah. That's my
00:07:58
little recommendation for the day. All
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right. Well, moving on into the case of
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the day. The case of the day. I have an
00:08:04
unsolved case today, which really
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infuriates me because there's kind of no
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reason that this should be unsolved.
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Yeah. Yeah. So, this is the unsolved
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murder of Kristen Oonnell. So, let's get
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into it. Kristen Marie Oonnell was born
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January 12th, 1965. She was one of two
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kids born to Michael and Phyllis
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Okonnell who raised her and her brother
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Kyle in Burnsville, Minnesota. According
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to Michael Oonnell, his daughter was a
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really fun, really easygoing, outgoing
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child. But he said she also had a very
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serious side. He said she was somewhat
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religious and had put a lot of thought
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into becoming a nun, actually. Oh, wow.
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Mhm. And you can find like some evidence
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of Kristen's faith throughout her early
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life when her grandmother, who she was
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really, really close with, died in 1975.
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10-year-old Kristen turned to her faith
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to help her kind of cope with this loss.
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In a letter written after her
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grandmother's death, she said, she
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wrote, "Death is a subject pushed aside,
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never talked about. I think it should be
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talked about. It's a part of life. Some
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people die fast, others die young, some
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old. It all depends when God wants us
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with him." Wow. which is like pretty
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[ __ ] profound for a 10-year-old. It
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is. And if that like it sounds like it
00:09:12
was like a comfort. Yeah, exactly. Now,
00:09:14
while Kristen would always take her
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faith pretty seriously, she was also in
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most respects a pretty typical
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Midwestern girl and a very ideal
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daughter for her parents. Her mother,
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Phyllis, told a reporter in 2023, "We
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had a great relationship and she was she
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was the one all the boys wanted to
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marry," which I just think is so sweet.
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Like a lot of girls her age, she had and
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where she was from, she had a deep love
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of horses and she worked part-time at a
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stable near Burnsville and she boarded
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her own horse there. Okay. She also was
00:09:43
remembered as being a very kind, very
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open person. She trusted people without
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reservation. Her aunt Barb said she was
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the type of person that wanted to sit
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and chat about anything and everything
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going on with her life. She sounds just
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cool. Yeah, she just sounds like a a
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good person. Like someone you beautiful,
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too. She was gorge. and just someone
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you'd want to be friends with, you know?
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Yeah. She just seems like a cool chick.
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Yeah. So, after graduating from high
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school, Kristen was accepted to the
00:10:07
University of Wisconsin Stout where she
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majored in hotel and restaurant
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management. Which I feel like that'd be
00:10:13
like a pretty [ __ ] fun career. And
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also, that's really smart. Really smart.
00:10:16
Cuz that's not like you you're really
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setting yourself up for like a career.
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Yeah. And also, you have to be like so
00:10:23
organized. You have to be a level of
00:10:25
organization that I don't even think I
00:10:27
could ever acquire. Yeah. I can't even
00:10:29
comprehend it. And you also have to be a
00:10:30
real people person. Yes. Like really
00:10:32
good with people and have a a good
00:10:34
demeanor, which it sounds like she was
00:10:36
kind of perfect for that. Definitely.
00:10:37
She sounds like she was like very
00:10:39
bubbly, you know. But in the spring of
00:10:41
her sophomore year, she took a vacation
00:10:43
to Cap I think it's Captiva Island um
00:10:45
near Fort Myers, Florida. And she was
00:10:47
just celebrating spring break with some
00:10:49
of her friends. Very typical. Yeah.
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While she was there, she met 18-year-old
00:10:53
James uh Vermeier Jr. who was working on
00:10:56
the island as a waiter at the time. He
00:10:58
had recently graduated high school where
00:11:00
he'd grown up in Oid, New York. And he
00:11:02
was planning to go back home to OD in a
00:11:04
few months. So Kristen and James headed
00:11:07
off immediately. And actually, even
00:11:09
after Kristen went home to Minnesota at
00:11:11
the end of spring break, they were
00:11:12
keeping in touch through letters and
00:11:14
phone calls. Now, after months of this
00:11:16
kind of like long-distance relationship
00:11:18
of sorts, they weren't boyfriend and
00:11:20
girlfriend, but it was it seemed like it
00:11:21
was like kind of heading down that road.
00:11:23
Yeah. Kristen decided that she wanted to
00:11:24
visit James in New York to get to know
00:11:26
him better cuz you know they've been
00:11:28
contact like contacting each other
00:11:29
through letters and phone. She's like
00:11:30
let's spend some time together. They're
00:11:32
they're rank like going up the steps of
00:11:34
the relationship ladder. Yeah, exactly.
00:11:36
Also remember when people wrote letters?
00:11:38
I know. Crazy. That's like it's so cute.
00:11:42
It is. It is pen palish. I know. So
00:11:45
since she wanted to get to know him
00:11:47
better, she planned a visit for mid
00:11:48
August, just a few weeks before she was
00:11:50
going to go back to Wisconsin Stout for
00:11:52
her junior year. Initially, Kristine's
00:11:55
mom, Phyllis, was kind of apprehensive
00:11:57
about her daughter visiting a boy that
00:11:58
she didn't really know too well, several
00:12:01
states away and unaccompanied. I get it.
00:12:04
In fact, according to Kristen's brother,
00:12:05
Kyle, his parents actually were arguing
00:12:07
about it for a few days before Kristen
00:12:09
actually did leave. The dad, Michael,
00:12:12
eventually convinced his wife that,
00:12:13
quote, "It was time to let Kristen be a
00:12:15
woman and make her own decisions." So,
00:12:18
Phyllis obviously eventually agreed to
00:12:19
let her go, reasoning that Kristen had
00:12:21
always been a really responsible girl.
00:12:23
She'd always been very trustworthy. So,
00:12:26
there was really no reason not to let
00:12:27
her go other than her own apprehension.
00:12:29
Yeah, of course. Which what an
00:12:31
impossible position. Yeah. And it's
00:12:34
hard. I mean, she's an adult
00:12:35
technically. Well, you want to give her
00:12:36
the independence and the freedom to make
00:12:39
choices and you can't tether them to you
00:12:42
for the rest of their lives as much as
00:12:43
we want to as parents. Well, and I think
00:12:45
as as soon as your kids turn like 17,
00:12:47
18, 19, that's a really hard age. Oh, I
00:12:50
can't even fathom because it's just like
00:12:52
uncharted territory for you. your whole
00:12:54
up until then you have been able to
00:12:56
tether tether them to you pretty much
00:12:58
and it's your your role like you have to
00:13:00
you know you get to make the rules and
00:13:02
it's like at that point you do feel it's
00:13:05
like it must be this weird feeling of
00:13:07
like well I have to kind of give them a
00:13:09
little freedom but I don't want to at
00:13:11
the same time like I want to just keep
00:13:12
them here and it's like a loss of
00:13:14
control and control is not always a bad
00:13:16
thing you know that's true but she was
00:13:18
so excited when she left that day she
00:13:20
came in kissed me and said mom don't
00:13:22
worry everything's fine fine. It'll be
00:13:24
fine. So, with her parents' consent now,
00:13:26
Kristen traveled uh from Minnesota to
00:13:28
Boston where a family friend picked her
00:13:30
up and then drove her to Syracuse, New
00:13:32
York, where James Ver ver Vermeier and
00:13:35
one of his friends picked her up. Okay.
00:13:37
So, Kristen arrived in New York on the
00:13:39
night of Monday, August 12th, and her
00:13:41
plan was to stay until that Friday. So,
00:13:43
not a super long time. Yeah. She was
00:13:45
really, really excited about this trip.
00:13:47
Super excited to see James, like I said,
00:13:49
get to know him better. Yeah. But her
00:13:51
enthusiasm started to wne almost as soon
00:13:54
as she arrived in New York. Initially,
00:13:56
James told Kristen that he that she was
00:13:59
going to stay at his parents house where
00:14:00
he also lived. So like very normal
00:14:02
situation there. But when she arrived in
00:14:05
Oid, he told her that the plans had
00:14:07
changed unexpectedly and that instead
00:14:09
they were going to be staying in a
00:14:11
trailer on his parents' property. Nah.
00:14:14
So that would like freak me out a little
00:14:15
bit. And I think she definitely she was
00:14:18
a little put off by it. Yeah. Yeah. I
00:14:20
feel like that would make your like
00:14:21
flight or fight senses kind of kick in a
00:14:23
bit, you know? Yeah. So, she was like,
00:14:25
"Okay, like sounds good." And she told
00:14:27
her mom and the change of plans was
00:14:29
concerning for Phyllis who believed her
00:14:31
daughter would be staying in a home with
00:14:32
adults present. Yeah. But she was like,
00:14:34
"You're already there and I already told
00:14:37
you you could go. I trust you and you
00:14:39
know, you're still on their property, so
00:14:41
you'll be safe." And again, hard
00:14:43
position. And again, not a lot she can
00:14:45
do. Her daughter's technically an adult.
00:14:46
Exactly. So, it's unclear how the two
00:14:48
spent their day on Tuesday, but by the
00:14:50
next day, Kristen reportedly went
00:14:52
swimming with James and his friends. And
00:14:54
then the group went to a local bar/rest
00:14:56
where they shot a game of pool. On the
00:14:58
way back to the trailer, James stopped
00:15:00
at a store to buy some sandwiches, get
00:15:02
some beers, and then the group of eight
00:15:04
went back to James' trailer to hang out.
00:15:06
And it was that afternoon that Kristen
00:15:08
received a second piece of unwanted and
00:15:10
unexpected news. For several months, she
00:15:13
and James had been corresponding, like I
00:15:15
said, with, you know, phone calls and
00:15:17
letters. And, you know, he had even
00:15:20
invited her to come visit him, giving
00:15:22
the impression that he had some kind of
00:15:23
romantic interest in her, obviously. But
00:15:26
according to Michael O'Connell,
00:15:29
Kristen's dad, while James was talking
00:15:31
with Kristen, he also had been dating a
00:15:33
girl in New York. Oh, so he's an
00:15:35
[ __ ] Yeah. And he quote, "Planned to
00:15:37
tell Kristen about it when she arrived
00:15:38
in OID." So, you invited this girl to
00:15:41
another state so you could tell her that
00:15:43
you're dating someone else. It's like,
00:15:45
why are you allowing her to come to like
00:15:47
there's obviously nothing's going to
00:15:49
happen between the two of you or like
00:15:50
that's how you're making it seem. That's
00:15:51
a dick move and nothing should happen
00:15:53
because you have a girlfriend and
00:15:54
obviously Kristen's a very respectable
00:15:56
girl so she's like [ __ ] you, nothing is
00:15:57
going to happen. But you let her get all
00:16:00
the way out there. No, that makes
00:16:01
literally no sense that you have her
00:16:03
travel to another state so you can tell
00:16:05
her that you have a girlfriend and two
00:16:07
she went from Minnesota to Boston and
00:16:08
then from Boston to New York like this
00:16:10
was and [ __ ] could have told her in a
00:16:12
letter like what's wrong with you or a
00:16:14
phone call so much effort put into this
00:16:17
trip for you to just kind of like her
00:16:20
there. Yeah, that feels like an exercise
00:16:22
in humiliation is what it feels like and
00:16:25
I'm angry. It does. It's just shitty.
00:16:28
Yeah. So, it appears that James did
00:16:29
finally tell Kristen about his
00:16:31
straightup girlfriend at some point on
00:16:33
the afternoon or the evening of Tuesday,
00:16:35
August 14th, after they got back to the
00:16:37
trailer. Also, how'd your girlfriend
00:16:39
feel about that? That you invited a girl
00:16:41
two states like states away. Yeah. To
00:16:44
come see you who you've been
00:16:45
corresponding with. Like, I'm sorry,
00:16:47
that's weird as [ __ ] It is weird. And
00:16:49
also like like were you telling your
00:16:51
girlfriend? Are your friends going to
00:16:52
say something to her? Like, what is
00:16:54
going on here? It's a very strange
00:16:55
situation. Strange. So upon learning
00:16:58
about James' relationship, Kristen
00:16:59
called her mom in Minnesota and told her
00:17:01
the trip really wasn't going as well as
00:17:03
she hoped it was hoped it would. And she
00:17:05
was going to cut it short and actually
00:17:06
come home the next day. Oh, I just want
00:17:08
her like everything in my soul is like,
00:17:11
I just want you to come home. Yeah,
00:17:13
same. So according to Phyllis, Kristen
00:17:15
quote, sounded upset but wouldn't say if
00:17:17
anything was wrong. She was just like
00:17:19
she was upset and she wanted to come
00:17:21
home. Phyllis was probably wanting to
00:17:24
just like reach over and grab her. And
00:17:26
it sounds like, you know, like it could
00:17:28
have been very much the like, you know,
00:17:30
like she's having a hard time cuz she's
00:17:31
an adult and she can't stop her from
00:17:33
going. But you wonder if she had some
00:17:35
kind of maternal instinct there. And
00:17:37
then like everybody else made her second
00:17:39
guess it kind of thing. Yeah. You know,
00:17:41
or and you know, even she might have
00:17:43
just second guessed it. Yeah. Cuz you're
00:17:45
taught to be like let them do what they
00:17:46
want. And it's like no, sometimes in
00:17:48
this world you can't just Yeah. you have
00:17:50
to trust her. You know what I mean? Like
00:17:52
the world just tells
00:17:54
uh people like this like, "Oh, you're
00:17:56
just being crazy. You're just being
00:17:58
overprotective. You're being
00:17:59
overprotective." And it's like, "No, she
00:18:00
was she's sometimes you just know."
00:18:02
Yeah. So, the group continued hanging
00:18:05
out until late into the evening.
00:18:06
Remember, they're all hanging out at
00:18:08
James' trailer. And around 11:00 p.m.,
00:18:10
James said he was going to go pick up a
00:18:11
pizza, and he left. And Kristen
00:18:13
announced to the rest of the group that
00:18:15
she was going to go out for a walk like
00:18:16
shortly after he left. According to
00:18:18
17-year-old David Chamberlain, who was
00:18:20
at the trailer that night, neither
00:18:22
Kristen nor James seemed upset. There
00:18:24
was no fights or arguments that broke
00:18:25
out at the party. He said she just went
00:18:27
out for a walk and didn't come back.
00:18:29
When she left, nobody figured anything
00:18:30
was wrong.
00:18:32
So, back home in Burnsville, Kristen
00:18:34
actually often took late night walks by
00:18:36
herself. Um, her and her her family
00:18:38
lived on a subdivision, so it was like a
00:18:40
little safer to go for a late night
00:18:41
walk. So, she mostly most likely didn't
00:18:44
think twice about going for a walk to
00:18:46
clear her head out here. But when
00:18:49
Kristen still hadn't returned after 2
00:18:51
hours, the group at the party started to
00:18:53
get concerned. So, they set out on foot
00:18:55
to look around the area for her. And
00:18:57
when she still hadn't been found, by the
00:18:59
following
00:19:00
afternoon, James called the state police
00:19:03
to report her
00:19:04
missing. I'm sorry, what? So, she goes
00:19:08
out for a walk at around like a little
00:19:10
after 11 p.m. She doesn't return by 1:00
00:19:14
a.m. They go out and look for her and
00:19:16
they don't find her. And then presumably
00:19:19
everybody just goes to sleep and wakes
00:19:22
up the next afternoon and then calls the
00:19:25
police. That's weird. That is weird. I'm
00:19:28
sorry. I'm not I'm not pointing fingers
00:19:31
at any point. That's just weird.
00:19:34
Objectively, that's [ __ ] weird. Yeah.
00:19:37
Like if my if I'm at a party and it's
00:19:40
not even like my friend, it's just like
00:19:41
somebody at the party and I hear that
00:19:42
they're missing and we go look for them
00:19:45
and don't find them. When we don't find
00:19:47
them, that's when we call the police.
00:19:49
Yeah. We say, "Okay, we got to call the
00:19:50
cops now cuz something's arai." And
00:19:52
there was plenty of people there that
00:19:54
like at least one of them should have
00:19:56
been like, "Hey, I think we should call
00:19:57
the police." And followed through with
00:19:59
that decision. For sure. Weird. Yeah.
00:20:02
So, after receiving the very late report
00:20:04
that Kristen O'Connell had gone missing,
00:20:06
a search team of about 90 police
00:20:08
officers and firefighters from four
00:20:10
towns set out um from the Vermeier's
00:20:12
house to look for Kristen. About 90
00:20:15
minutes later, the team found Kristen's
00:20:17
body. She was not alive. Um they found
00:20:20
her body about 300 yards into a
00:20:22
cornfield along Route 139, which is a
00:20:25
rural road about a quarter mile from the
00:20:27
trailer where she'd last been seen. OID
00:20:30
fire chief Robert Fe favor said, "I know
00:20:32
that's what you go on searches to find,
00:20:34
but this is an awful way to end it.
00:20:36
Usually when you go out on these things,
00:20:38
you find out the person you're looking
00:20:39
for is hundreds of miles away, but you
00:20:41
never know till you find it." That's
00:20:44
awful. Yeah. When she was discovered,
00:20:46
Kristen was fully nude. Her throat had
00:20:49
been slashed, and she had also been s
00:20:51
stabbed several times in the chest. Oh
00:20:54
my god. Yeah. The scene had the
00:20:56
hallmarks of a sexual assault, but it
00:20:58
would quickly be be determined that she
00:21:00
had not been raped. Oh wow. Major
00:21:02
Richard Tonzi told reporters the
00:21:04
apparent intentions may have been a
00:21:06
sexual attack, but it may not have taken
00:21:08
place, eventually ending instead with
00:21:10
murder. A few days later, the medical
00:21:12
examiner would label Kristine's death
00:21:13
obviously a murder, a homicide. And
00:21:15
there was evidence that she had quote
00:21:17
put up a tremendous fight for her life.
00:21:20
And it was also determined that at this
00:21:22
at that time she had no drugs and no
00:21:23
alcohol in her system. So she was fully
00:21:27
sober. A cursory search of the scene
00:21:29
didn't really turn up as much as far as
00:21:32
evidence and there was no sign of a
00:21:33
murder weapon anywhere in the area.
00:21:36
Investigators took soil samples, blood
00:21:38
samples, and what little physical
00:21:40
evidence they could find and sent it to
00:21:42
a state lab in uh Bing Hampton for Bing
00:21:45
Hampton for testing. M in the meantime,
00:21:47
the press and public became uh very
00:21:50
concerned that there was now a killer
00:21:51
amongst them. Yeah. A few months earlier
00:21:53
in May, convicted murderers Hugh Colum
00:21:56
and Bernard Welch had escaped from a
00:21:58
Chicago correctional facility and were
00:22:00
believed to have fled to the northeast.
00:22:03
So that was very concerning for people.
00:22:05
They were like, "Oh [ __ ] did these two
00:22:06
have something to do with it?"
00:22:08
Welch was arrested in Philadelphia in
00:22:10
early August, but at the time of
00:22:12
Kristen's murder, Colom was still on the
00:22:15
loose. And Tanzi told reporters, "We've
00:22:17
got an idea that the murderer could have
00:22:19
been in the area and we've got a murder,
00:22:21
but he clearly stated that Colom was not
00:22:23
a suspect." Which is interesting. That
00:22:26
is interesting. A few months later, they
00:22:27
actually did arrest Colom um after he
00:22:29
robbed a bank in Mississippi. So, he was
00:22:31
definitively ruled out as a suspect at
00:22:33
that point. So after Kristen's body was
00:22:35
removed from the field and all the
00:22:36
evidence was gathered, Tonzi and the
00:22:39
other state police investigators started
00:22:41
interviewing witnesses and just
00:22:42
conducting like door-to-d dooror
00:22:43
canvases. Basically, everybody at the
00:22:45
party was quickly ruled out as a
00:22:47
suspect. H Tanzi told reporters,
00:22:50
"Everybody at that party came from
00:22:51
wellto-do families in this community.
00:22:53
They are respected in this area." Okay.
00:22:56
Um good to know. While being from a
00:22:59
wealthy family is hardly evidence of
00:23:01
innocence because as we know wealthy
00:23:03
people kill people too and people from
00:23:05
wealthy families kill people too quite
00:23:07
frequently actually. The group had been
00:23:10
together all evening and with the
00:23:12
exception of James going out for pizza
00:23:14
shortly before Kristen left on the walk.
00:23:16
None of them had left the trailer other
00:23:18
than to go look for her. Okay. And the
00:23:20
medical examiner did place the time of
00:23:22
death somewhere between midnight and
00:23:24
1:30 a.m. And that was after James had
00:23:27
already gotten back to the party. Okay.
00:23:29
So, so there's that. Yeah. And this time
00:23:31
of death is was also supported by what
00:23:33
neighbors described as a quote unquote
00:23:35
horrific scream heard in the direction
00:23:38
of the cornfield between 12:15 and 12:30
00:23:40
a.m. Now, here's my Call the police.
00:23:44
Doesn't sound like it. Call the police
00:23:46
when you hear a blood curdling scream in
00:23:48
a cornfield. Okay, do that for me. If
00:23:51
neighbors of this family heard the
00:23:54
scream, why didn't the group Why didn't
00:23:56
the group on the in the trailer? Valid.
00:24:00
That doesn't question any sense to me.
00:24:02
Yeah, that's a valid question. Did they
00:24:03
hear the scream and then that's when
00:24:05
they went out looking? But also, she was
00:24:07
found not too far from the property.
00:24:10
Yeah. And they all went out looking for
00:24:12
her for hours.
00:24:15
It's just weird. It's just all they got
00:24:17
is very interesting. They got ruled out
00:24:18
as suspects, but but there's just still
00:24:20
some like lingering questions. Yeah. And
00:24:22
it also happened quickly in my opinion.
00:24:25
Yeah. So, even though they had been
00:24:27
ruled out as suspects in her murder, it
00:24:29
remains unclear why Kristen left the
00:24:31
party near midnight to go for a walk in
00:24:33
an area very unfamiliar to her. Well,
00:24:35
that's I think that's the thing. It's
00:24:37
like we're not pointing fingers at
00:24:38
anyone. It's just like there's some
00:24:40
unanswered questions that it doesn't
00:24:42
seem like had enough attention. Yeah.
00:24:44
Exactly. That could be missing pieces to
00:24:46
a puzzle that may not include them being
00:24:49
part of it. Yeah. It's just like why
00:24:51
weren't all the pieces put together?
00:24:53
Yeah. And also just like in retrospect,
00:24:56
don't let somebody go for a walk alone
00:24:58
when they're not familiar with this
00:24:59
area. Yeah. That's I'm not
00:25:00
understanding. I It's just sad that she
00:25:02
didn't have a friend here. Yeah. Like
00:25:04
that makes me sad. And the one person
00:25:05
who was supposed to be her friend had
00:25:07
like kind of turned this trip into
00:25:08
shitty for like very shitty for her. But
00:25:11
state police investigator Jeffrey Arnold
00:25:13
said in 2009 she did not do drugs and
00:25:15
was not a drinker. She may have been
00:25:17
uncomfortable at the party because
00:25:18
alcohol was involved and decided to take
00:25:20
a walk. Yeah, that makes sense. Others
00:25:22
suggested that, you know, Kristen was
00:25:24
probably upset that James had just told
00:25:26
her about his girlfriend and she maybe
00:25:27
wanted to go clear her head. And then
00:25:29
other people say, you know, maybe she
00:25:32
just wanted to get some air. She didn't
00:25:33
plan to be gone long. And also, she was
00:25:35
barefoot when she left the party, which
00:25:37
suggests that she didn't plan to be gone
00:25:39
for very long. Yeah. If she was
00:25:41
barefoot, she was not planning on being
00:25:42
gone long. That was a quick little
00:25:44
little stroll. Yeah. Wow. Interesting,
00:25:47
right? Very interesting. So, whatever
00:25:49
her reason for leaving the party,
00:25:50
investigators soon learned that Kristen
00:25:52
might not have been alone for the
00:25:53
duration of her walk. Despite being a
00:25:56
rural route, Route 139 was commonly used
00:25:58
by locals as a shortcut across town and
00:26:00
it also tended to be busy with traffic
00:26:03
going to the Senica Army Depot and the
00:26:05
Golden Buck, which is a pro a popular
00:26:07
restaurant and bar in oid. Mhm. Sergeant
00:26:10
Thomas Warren said, "A couple of passing
00:26:12
motorists have told us they saw people
00:26:14
in two cars talking to Kristen along the
00:26:16
road at about 11:45 p.m. Other witnesses
00:26:19
reported seeing a late7s green or blue
00:26:22
sedan on Route 139 right around the time
00:26:24
of the murder with one or possibly two
00:26:27
male occupants. And some of the
00:26:29
witnesses told police they believed the
00:26:31
occupants may have been trying to lure
00:26:32
Kristen into the car. Oh no. I mean, I
00:26:36
that's scary that she's just walking by
00:26:38
herself.
00:26:39
in the dark. Yeah. Barefoot. Yep. Like
00:26:42
that's an unknown area. Yeah. Several
00:26:45
witnesses reported seeing the car with
00:26:47
two men inside, but others told
00:26:49
investigators they saw quote, "wo young
00:26:52
white males walking behind Okonnell
00:26:54
shortly before police believe she was
00:26:56
killed." Oh, that's so scary. So, there
00:26:57
might have been two people in that car
00:26:59
and then later people said they saw two
00:27:01
people walking behind her. Oh, that's
00:27:03
really scary. Yeah. The two individuals
00:27:05
were described as being young, slender,
00:27:07
with shoulderlength hair, wearing blue
00:27:09
jeans, and one was wearing a a jean
00:27:11
jacket. One was described as being
00:27:13
around six feet tall, so very tall, and
00:27:15
the other was shorter than that person.
00:27:17
And you have to remember like again like
00:27:20
the the stuff at the party is very like
00:27:22
strange and some of it is questionable,
00:27:24
but you look at this and you say, look
00:27:26
at the Allison Botha story and it's like
00:27:29
these Yeah. two people might have things
00:27:32
happen at random that tonight they were
00:27:35
going to do this like you know what I
00:27:36
mean like I' if I've learned nothing
00:27:37
from that I've learned that yeah they
00:27:39
can just decide to yeah and we know I
00:27:41
mean serial killers pick pick victims at
00:27:44
random and when I don't want to say like
00:27:46
opportunity strikes but that's true
00:27:47
they're opportunistic they are
00:27:49
opportunistic when they see an
00:27:50
opportunity that they feel like they can
00:27:51
get the upper hand in they will take
00:27:53
that opportunity so it does and this was
00:27:55
very much unfortunately a situation
00:27:57
where two males would absolutely have
00:27:59
the upper hand
00:28:01
a young girl who's smaller than them
00:28:04
barefoot and doesn't know her way around
00:28:06
here. And who knows, they may have
00:28:08
stopped her, struck up a conversation,
00:28:10
found out that she wasn't from around
00:28:12
here, and that makes it 10 times more,
00:28:16
you know, opportun opportunistic. Her
00:28:18
mother also said that she was very
00:28:20
trusting and and liked to chat with
00:28:23
people. She was very disarmed and very
00:28:25
like would kind of let stuff out like
00:28:27
that cuz she believed the best in
00:28:29
people. And she may have even, you know,
00:28:31
like said something about the fact that
00:28:33
this wasn't a great night. It wasn't
00:28:34
going well. Yeah. Like I'm I want to I'm
00:28:37
going home. Yeah. Like she's at a party
00:28:38
where she doesn't know a lot of people.
00:28:40
Yeah. Who knows what was said? Who
00:28:42
knows? That's the thing. So it's like we
00:28:44
can look at the partygoers and the party
00:28:46
situation as like yeah there's some
00:28:47
unanswered questions there but like this
00:28:49
is also a very distinct possibility that
00:28:52
somebody did take that
00:28:54
opportunity there which is so sad.
00:28:56
That's also the unfortunate part of this
00:28:58
case is there's just so many variables
00:29:00
at play. Yeah. That there was it's hard
00:29:04
to pin it all together. Right. And these
00:29:06
two people are still unknown. So it's
00:29:08
like you know Oh god. Yeah. The
00:29:10
investigation was tough, but based on
00:29:12
the information learned from witnesses,
00:29:14
investigators did start putting together
00:29:16
a theory of what could have happened.
00:29:18
After leaving the party at James'
00:29:19
trailer, Kristen walked about a/4 mile
00:29:21
down Route 139 when she was approached
00:29:23
by those two men in the sedan who pulled
00:29:25
over to talk to her. After that
00:29:27
interaction, she was seen continuing her
00:29:29
walk in a western direction around 12:10
00:29:32
a.m. But the next witness to see her
00:29:34
around 12:15 a.m. reported her walking
00:29:37
in the opposite direction, indicating
00:29:39
that she was heading back to the party.
00:29:41
Okay. Investigators theorized that the
00:29:43
driver may have gone a short distance
00:29:45
down the road, but turned around at an
00:29:48
abandoned gas station and went back in
00:29:50
Kristen's direction. and they believe
00:29:52
she either saw the cur the car turn
00:29:54
around or just sensed that something
00:29:56
wasn't right. So then she turned around
00:29:58
and started heading back to the party.
00:30:00
Okay. So that makes you so sad because
00:30:04
that makes you realize that like she was
00:30:06
probably in fear at that moment. Yeah.
00:30:08
You know, absolutely. And when she
00:30:10
started turning in the direction of the
00:30:12
party, they believe that the men in the
00:30:13
car started pursuing her on foot at that
00:30:16
point. Yeah. That's so [ __ ] up. It is
00:30:19
really [ __ ] up. In fact, one witness,
00:30:21
like I said, reported seeing those two
00:30:23
young men walking about 50 yard behind
00:30:25
her around 12:15 a.m. Around 1:15 a.m.,
00:30:29
so an hour later, witnesses reported
00:30:32
seeing two young men who matched earlier
00:30:34
descriptions walking eastward away from
00:30:36
the cornfield toward the center of town.
00:30:38
Oh, this sounds scary. The two suspects
00:30:41
were seen again 15 minutes later, this
00:30:44
time walking in the opposite direction
00:30:45
back toward the cornfield. And that was
00:30:48
the last time either suspect was seen.
00:30:50
What the [ __ ] Yeah. And the fact that
00:30:52
there's like a cornfield involved in
00:30:54
this just makes it even scarier. Yeah.
00:30:57
Because I mean this is think of upstate
00:30:58
New York. Yeah. And this is like I don't
00:31:00
know why cornfields just free. I mean I
00:31:02
know why popular culture has made me
00:31:04
fear cornfields. But I mean yeah it's a
00:31:06
it just gives it like a way more
00:31:08
chilling. There's a lot of there's a lot
00:31:11
of opportunity for cover conceal. Yeah.
00:31:14
Concealment. Exactly. And oid uh New
00:31:17
York, just like so people know, is like
00:31:19
super upstate New York. Really rural.
00:31:22
It's not very far from Canada. Yeah. I'm
00:31:24
looking at it right now and I'm like,
00:31:26
damn. Like my Yeah. Yeah. Like I have
00:31:28
family that lives in upstate New York
00:31:29
and they don't even live as upstate as
00:31:31
this and that felt rural to me when I
00:31:33
would visit. And it's very like small
00:31:34
town. Super small town. I mean, we're
00:31:36
literally just talked about an abandoned
00:31:38
gas station a second ago, you know? Like
00:31:40
that's the vibe here. Yep. So, the
00:31:42
initial flood of tips and witness
00:31:43
statements was very useful actually this
00:31:45
time in establishing a timeline and
00:31:47
developing a theory as to what might
00:31:48
have happened. But it did little to
00:31:50
point investigators in the direction of
00:31:52
a viable suspect. In fact, within a week
00:31:55
of the murder, investigators had yet to
00:31:57
find anybody who even remotely matched
00:32:00
the suspects seen talking to Kristen
00:32:01
before the murder. And of course, that
00:32:03
contributed to the growing sense of fear
00:32:05
in the community. Yeah. Because people
00:32:07
are like, "Oh, there's two suspects
00:32:09
here, but no, like they're incognito.
00:32:11
No, are they among us? Do they live
00:32:13
here? Are they from here? Who are these
00:32:15
people?" Right? And it wasn't Kristen's
00:32:18
death alone that made county residents
00:32:19
uneasy, but the fact that Kristen's
00:32:22
murder was the fourth unsolved murder in
00:32:24
Senica County in a little a little over
00:32:27
a year. Wow. Yeah. Chief Ferdinand Ning
00:32:30
uh Ningandri, I hope I said that right,
00:32:32
told reporters, "I don't remember it
00:32:34
ever happening here before in my 28
00:32:36
years as a police officer." Wow. And
00:32:38
then suddenly they had four unsolved
00:32:41
murders. Damn. Yeah. So, homicides in
00:32:45
that part of New York were very rare
00:32:47
actually. And the fact that there was no
00:32:49
common link between the ones that had
00:32:51
taken place was equally troubling
00:32:53
because it suggested that these were
00:32:54
random crimes and like we just said,
00:32:56
crimes of opportunity. The growing fear
00:32:58
in the community and the lack of
00:33:00
progress in all of these unsolved cases
00:33:02
prompted several community meetings and
00:33:04
the form uh the formation of a
00:33:06
neighborhood watch program. So at least
00:33:08
people got together and were taking care
00:33:09
of one another. Yeah. But after a
00:33:12
frustrating week of little progress in
00:33:13
the case, the state police finally did
00:33:15
catch a break on August 23rd when an
00:33:18
anonymous person called with an
00:33:20
unexpected tip. The caller said, "I'm
00:33:22
getting out of town because I told him
00:33:24
not to do it. I told him not to do it."
00:33:26
You look at uh uh behind the Chevy, the
00:33:28
green Chevy on uh Main Street in
00:33:30
Waterlue, and you'll find him. And if
00:33:32
you open the trunk, if you open the
00:33:34
trunk, you'll find what you want. What
00:33:36
the [ __ ] Chilling. What the [ __ ]
00:33:39
Chilling. Yeah. The officer who answered
00:33:42
the call, Trooper DC Ryer, tried to keep
00:33:44
the caller on the line by engaging him
00:33:46
in conversation, but the voice on the
00:33:48
other end just simply repeated himself,
00:33:50
insisting they would quote, "Find what
00:33:51
you need to solve the case if they
00:33:53
looked in the trunk." And then he
00:33:55
repeated his earlier insistence saying,
00:33:57
"I'm getting out of town because I told
00:33:58
him not to do it. I told him not to do
00:34:00
it. I'm heading out of town before
00:34:02
hanging up." What the [ __ ] Which does
00:34:06
it one feels like this could be the two
00:34:09
suspects and one is like freaking the
00:34:11
[ __ ] out. Or this could also just be a
00:34:13
hoax. We know people do this [ __ ] We
00:34:15
know people love to do that. So, and now
00:34:17
it's, you know, gotten kind of known
00:34:19
communitywide that they are looking for
00:34:21
two suspects. So, who knows? But given
00:34:23
that several witnesses had described
00:34:25
seeing the dark-colored sedan on Route
00:34:27
139 on the night of the murder, it
00:34:29
seemed likely that the call was not some
00:34:31
kind of hoax and that the voice on the
00:34:32
other end did belong to one of the
00:34:34
killers. The problem, however, was that
00:34:36
while investigators knew about the
00:34:38
unknown suspect's car, there was also
00:34:40
countless dark sedans in this county,
00:34:42
and even narrowing it down to a green
00:34:44
Chevy sedan was little help, of course.
00:34:46
So with little to go on and no new
00:34:49
evidence forthcoming, investigators
00:34:50
turned to the public for help and they
00:34:52
placed an ad on the front page of the
00:34:54
local newspaper. The ad said, "Our
00:34:56
concerns are what have been seen either
00:34:58
Wednesday or Thursday, August 14th or
00:35:00
15th during the night the day or night."
00:35:03
And the ad urged Senica County residents
00:35:05
to come forward if they'd seen, among
00:35:06
other things, anyone hitchhiking, or had
00:35:09
picked up any hitchhikers, saw any
00:35:11
strangers or suspicious individuals in
00:35:13
the area, or if they quote, saw any cars
00:35:16
that aroused their curiosity. Okay. So,
00:35:18
aware that such an advertisement was
00:35:20
unusual, state police investigator
00:35:22
Thomas Warren was upfront with locals
00:35:24
about the frustrating nature of this
00:35:26
case. He said, "We're at the point where
00:35:28
we need answers to those questions for
00:35:30
the case to move forward. The fact that
00:35:32
she was not from this area and had
00:35:33
little contact with the people around
00:35:35
here makes this a difficult case. Yeah.
00:35:37
And it does. Yeah. His comments might
00:35:39
have been frustrating and probably
00:35:41
sounded like defeist to some, but he
00:35:44
wasn't wrong about the difficulty of
00:35:45
this case. Kristen, she'd only been in
00:35:48
town for a couple of days and she had
00:35:50
never been there before and the only
00:35:52
people she knew in this area were all in
00:35:54
the same room at James' trailer on the
00:35:56
night of the murder. Damn. That meant
00:35:58
whoever had killed her was a stranger to
00:36:01
her. And strangers are obviously among
00:36:04
the more notoriously difficult types of
00:36:06
murders to solve because there's no
00:36:08
connections, no social ties, nothing to
00:36:11
trace victim to killer. Yeah. So,
00:36:14
equally problematic was the lack of
00:36:16
evidence found at the scene. Like I
00:36:18
said, there was no murder weapon and
00:36:20
there wasn't really any forensic
00:36:21
evidence that could point them to a
00:36:22
suspect. All they had at that point were
00:36:25
some blood and soil samples and they did
00:36:27
have some skin cells discovered on
00:36:28
Kristine's body. Okay. But DNA testing
00:36:31
was still several years in the future.
00:36:33
We didn't have that yet. Where's that
00:36:34
DNA now? We'll get there. Okay. We'll
00:36:37
get there and we'll get frustrated as a
00:36:39
group. Oh no. Yeah. So at this at that
00:36:42
point in the at this point in the
00:36:44
investigation that I'm talking about
00:36:45
now, those samples weren't likely to be
00:36:46
of much use for a long long time. Yeah.
00:36:48
Of course. So, at the end of August,
00:36:51
Major Richard Tanzi told reporters,
00:36:53
"We've had between 220 and 230 leads of
00:36:57
various types, and I've assigned several
00:36:59
investigators to the case, but we have
00:37:01
no one we term a suspect at this point."
00:37:03
That's awful. That many leads and no
00:37:05
suspects.
00:37:06
It's unclear whether local police were
00:37:08
confident or even hopeful that they'd
00:37:10
eventually find the killer. But what is
00:37:12
evident from the statements made in late
00:37:14
August and early September is that
00:37:16
without any new information, the case
00:37:18
was in danger of going cold. Yeah. In
00:37:21
the few months after Kristen's murder,
00:37:23
investigators struggled to make anything
00:37:25
resembling progress, much to the
00:37:26
disappointment of the public and to
00:37:28
Kristen's family. Yeah. Fire Chief
00:37:30
Robert Fiv said people are pretty upset
00:37:33
about this murder. It's changed their
00:37:34
lifestyle to being more security
00:37:36
conscious. and he was among the handful
00:37:39
of locals who worked to establish a
00:37:40
$5,000 reward for information leading to
00:37:43
the arrest of Kristen's killer, which
00:37:45
they hoped would spur the investigation
00:37:47
back into high gear, but it didn't do
00:37:49
much. He said maybe this reward will
00:37:51
prompt someone who for whatever reason
00:37:53
has not come forth with vital
00:37:55
information to do so. But like I said,
00:37:57
the reward would go unclaimed. Leads
00:37:59
just kept drying up and the case got
00:38:01
colder and colder. So now, desperate for
00:38:05
information, investigators took to local
00:38:07
television stations in upstate New York
00:38:09
to urge residents to come forward if
00:38:11
they knew anything that could lead to an
00:38:13
arrest. They even went as as far as
00:38:15
filming a reenactment of the murder,
00:38:17
which aired on Crimestoppers. Wow. Yeah,
00:38:20
it was a long time ago. Uh Warren said,
00:38:23
Yeah, different time. Warren said that
00:38:25
got some calls, but nothing significant.
00:38:26
There's been no breakthrough and again,
00:38:28
no weapon found yet. So, within six
00:38:31
weeks now of Kristen's murder, the story
00:38:33
had slipped from the front pages of the
00:38:35
papers as we've heard so many times
00:38:37
before, disappeared from locals minds,
00:38:39
the front of local's minds at least. But
00:38:41
an article in the Democrat and Chronicle
00:38:43
reported in late September, it's been
00:38:45
less than six weeks since Kristen
00:38:46
Oonnell's nude body was found in a
00:38:48
nearby cornfield, but over people don't
00:38:51
talk much about it anymore. Wow. It's
00:38:53
sad. That's wild. Sad. And it just like
00:38:57
it really speaks to the state of the
00:38:58
world at all times. Yeah. That in six
00:39:02
weeks you can about a teenager being
00:39:06
found in a cornfield murdered in the
00:39:08
nude. Yeah. Like like you're just on to
00:39:11
the next thing. It's always society has
00:39:14
always been that way. Yeah. Always been
00:39:16
that way. It's sad. But it's It really
00:39:19
is. I think everybody gets swept up in
00:39:21
it. Well, and it's gotten much worse
00:39:22
now. Like social media and the internet
00:39:25
like There's just always something new.
00:39:26
The attention span to these kind of
00:39:28
things. It's blink and you miss it.
00:39:29
Yeah, it's so true. But the desire to
00:39:32
move on for the murder was obviously
00:39:33
deeply frustrating for those who were
00:39:35
involved in the case heavily like Robert
00:39:37
Fvu. He said, "I can't understand how
00:39:39
people could forget so quickly. To me,
00:39:41
there are so many questions. Someone out
00:39:43
there is a person who committed murder.
00:39:45
Who is it? Why? Where are they?" Yeah.
00:39:47
And it was a brutal murder. Brutal. her
00:39:49
throat was slashed and she'd been
00:39:51
stabbed multiple times and she was
00:39:54
stripped at some point, you know. But
00:39:56
for many of the residents of OD and the
00:39:58
surrounding towns, Kristen's murder
00:40:00
aroused serious fears that they would
00:40:02
much rather not have to confront. So, I
00:40:04
think that's why people just push that
00:40:06
to the back of their mind. A nice
00:40:08
pattern of avoidance. Yep. Local
00:40:10
resident Bonnie Palmer told a reporter,
00:40:12
"There's an awful lot of people here
00:40:13
that are still scared. It's something
00:40:15
that's very ugly and you want to forget
00:40:17
it. So you put it in the back of your
00:40:18
mind and you don't talk about it. Yeah.
00:40:20
It's human nature. It is. So while the
00:40:22
public had begun moving on from the
00:40:24
murder, investigators with the New York
00:40:26
State Police continued to follow up on
00:40:28
every tip they received. In early 1986,
00:40:31
Richard Tonzi and one of his fellow
00:40:33
investigators actually got approval to
00:40:35
travel out of state and rein some of the
00:40:37
early witnesses. After they got a new
00:40:39
lead, that new information may have come
00:40:41
to light. Tanzi was very hopeful that
00:40:44
this could have been their best lead
00:40:45
yet, but that lead and the supposed new
00:40:48
information ultimately led nowhere and
00:40:50
he found himself right back to where
00:40:52
they were in August 1985. I hate this. I
00:40:56
know. After 6 months of investigation,
00:40:58
police became decidedly less optimistic
00:41:00
in their prospects of catching the
00:41:02
killer. Senior investigator Robert Fenor
00:41:04
said in uh February of 1986, "We've got
00:41:08
very, very little to go on. The physical
00:41:10
evidence is almost nothing. We've got no
00:41:12
fingerprints, no suspects, no
00:41:14
identification, no leads, and no
00:41:16
witnesses. Damn. By that point,
00:41:18
investigators had traveled to six
00:41:20
different states to interview potential
00:41:22
witnesses and review similar cases even.
00:41:24
But after doing so, they were still no
00:41:27
closer to cracking the case. Wow, this
00:41:29
is brutal. And it really isn't a lack of
00:41:32
effort, it seems. Yeah, it seems like
00:41:33
they were really trying. Right. In the
00:41:36
months and now years that followed
00:41:37
Kristen's death, the investigation lost
00:41:39
steam, of course. But throughout that
00:41:41
period, her parents, Phyllis and Michael
00:41:43
Oonnell, kept their own investigation
00:41:45
going of their daughter's murder in
00:41:47
hopes of finding the killer. Yeah.
00:41:49
Almost immediately upon learning of
00:41:50
Kristine's death, they hired a private
00:41:52
investigator. But the result of that
00:41:54
investigator's report has not been made
00:41:56
public. In August of 1986, a year after
00:41:59
Kristine's murder, Phyllis and Michael
00:42:01
actually traveled to OID in the hope
00:42:03
that their presence might inspire
00:42:04
somebody to come forward. On a visit to
00:42:07
the crime scene, Phyllis told a
00:42:08
reporter, "You always hope that you can
00:42:10
see something nobody else has noticed."
00:42:12
Of course, I can't imagine being like in
00:42:15
that position. They must have been so
00:42:16
frustrated. They must still be so
00:42:18
frustrated and just like desperate for
00:42:21
anything. To the Okonnell, the lack of
00:42:23
progress in the case was unfathomable,
00:42:25
which obviously Michael said, "It might
00:42:28
not have been a person who lives in Oid,
00:42:30
but someone who lives 20 or even 100
00:42:32
miles away, but knew the area around
00:42:34
here. It's just very hard for us to
00:42:36
grasp the concept of this being a random
00:42:38
thing. Yeah, of course. Investigators
00:42:40
did acknowledge that it was possible
00:42:42
that Kristen was the victim of a serial
00:42:43
killer and they insisted that they were
00:42:45
checking similar crimes reported around
00:42:47
the country, but still they weren't
00:42:50
getting anything. Jesus, really? I know.
00:42:53
So, the following August 1987, the
00:42:56
Okonnell were back in OID on the second
00:42:58
anniversary now of Kristen's murder. And
00:43:00
this time they were in the company of
00:43:02
two psychics that they hired back home
00:43:04
in Burnsville. I don't blame him. I
00:43:06
don't either. At that two years of
00:43:07
unanswered questions, I would be going
00:43:09
to psychics myself. Michael told a
00:43:12
reporter, "The information they have
00:43:13
supplied us with thus far has provided a
00:43:15
couple of very strong leads, and we hope
00:43:17
this will be resolved in a short period
00:43:19
of time." Oh man, the hope. I know. The
00:43:21
psychics agreed with Michael Oonnell
00:43:23
sentiment though. One of them said, "The
00:43:25
feelings and psychic impressions in this
00:43:27
area are as strong as they were two
00:43:29
years ago. My impression is that there
00:43:31
are people who have substantial
00:43:32
knowledge of this murder.
00:43:35
I
00:43:36
mean, I don't think that was, you know,
00:43:38
how I feel about psychics at crime
00:43:40
scenes. I think that's a little uh Well,
00:43:42
I could also say that. That's the thing.
00:43:44
Yeah. It's like, okay, that wasn't I
00:43:46
don't know if that was a prediction so
00:43:49
much as a commentary on just something
00:43:51
that is common knowledge. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:53
But the psychics who came to oid with
00:43:55
the Okonnell may have given them hope
00:43:57
that their daughter's murder would be
00:43:58
solved. But as we know, we're here today
00:44:00
talking about it. Years passed without
00:44:02
an arrest or even a suspect. And this is
00:44:05
awful. In 1993, tragedy struck again
00:44:08
when Michael Oonnell died unexpectedly.
00:44:10
At the age of 51. Oh, super young. Super
00:44:13
young. He never obviously learned who
00:44:15
was responsible for his daughter's
00:44:17
death. Damn. Yeah. So now, for years,
00:44:21
Kristen Oonnell's case was shelved as
00:44:23
investigators shifted their attention to
00:44:25
new and more pressing matters. But then
00:44:27
in early 1996, a hair sample found on
00:44:31
Kristen's body led investigators to a
00:44:33
man named Gary Harris. He was a former
00:44:36
OD resident who was 15 at the time of
00:44:38
the murder. Okay. According to Senica
00:44:40
County District Attorney Donna Cathy,
00:44:42
Harris was quote seen in the area where
00:44:44
Okonnell was staying on the night of her
00:44:46
murder. Huh. At the time of the murder,
00:44:48
the hairs were only identifiable as
00:44:50
belonging to a black male, but Harris
00:44:53
came to the attention of investigators
00:44:55
after he was arrested for an armed
00:44:57
robbery in New York in 1996. Okay.
00:45:00
Unfortunately though, a month after
00:45:02
announcing Harris as a suspect, the lab
00:45:04
results came back as inconclusive on the
00:45:07
hair sample. And investigators were
00:45:10
forced to rule Harris out as a suspect.
00:45:12
[ __ ] Mhm.
00:45:14
Although nearly 15 years would pass
00:45:16
before the Okonnell case was back in the
00:45:18
news, the testing of the hair sample in
00:45:21
1996 was a strong indication that
00:45:23
forensic evidence could very well be the
00:45:25
thing that solved Kristen's murder.
00:45:27
Absolutely. And I still believe it could
00:45:28
be. Oh man. By the time the case was
00:45:31
back in the headlines, 25 years had
00:45:33
passed. And in that time, like we know,
00:45:36
scientific and techn technological
00:45:38
advances had made it possible to solve
00:45:40
cold cases with the evidence that had
00:45:41
just been sitting on shelves for decades
00:45:44
at that point. We've seen it happen so
00:45:46
many times. Look at the Golden State
00:45:47
Killer. Yeah. In Kristen's case, like I
00:45:50
said, blood samples and skin fragments
00:45:53
had been collected from her body that
00:45:54
could lead to her killer. But as it
00:45:57
turned out, things wouldn't be quite as
00:45:58
easy as submitting the samples for DNA
00:46:01
testing. Why? In August 2009, New York
00:46:04
State Police had received approval of
00:46:06
funds for up to
00:46:08
$40,000 in order to hire a Dutch
00:46:10
forensic lab known for their pioneering
00:46:12
work in touch DNA. Let's go. And that's
00:46:14
a type of analysis that can identify an
00:46:16
individual from a like the smallest
00:46:19
sample. But the problem was that the New
00:46:22
York State Health Department refused to
00:46:24
allow investigators to contract with the
00:46:27
Amsterdam based company because they
00:46:29
weren't certified in New York.
00:46:31
Come on. In his statement to the press,
00:46:34
District Attorney Richard Swinhardt told
00:46:36
reporters, "We feel this is our last
00:46:38
best effort to solve this case. We are
00:46:40
very frustrated with the bureaucracy of
00:46:42
the Department of Health and that they
00:46:44
won't take a worldleading lab where the
00:46:46
lab people have testified in other
00:46:48
states in our country as experts on
00:46:50
homicide cases and won't let them at
00:46:52
least examine the evidence while they're
00:46:54
being certified."
00:46:56
Yeah, that's New York. Get it [ __ ]
00:46:58
together. That's get it [ __ ]
00:47:01
together. That's suspicious. That's real
00:47:04
[ __ ] suspicious. Yeah. Why the [ __ ]
00:47:06
Why? Yeah. Are you kidding me? That
00:47:10
doesn't make any sense. That's
00:47:11
infuriating. It doesn't make any sense.
00:47:13
Kristen's family was equally frustrated
00:47:15
with the state's decision to deny the
00:47:17
testing until the lab applied for and
00:47:19
received certification in New York.
00:47:22
Kristen's brother, Kyle O'Conor, said,
00:47:23
"They're railroading for their own
00:47:25
purposes. There could be no other
00:47:26
reason." Yeah. Why the [ __ ] would you
00:47:28
stop that? and he said they're, and this
00:47:30
is a quote from him, they're covering
00:47:31
something up. They haven't come up with
00:47:33
a good viable reason why this should not
00:47:34
be allowed. And it's wild to me that
00:47:36
they're like, you know, you look shady.
00:47:39
So if they're if you're not covering
00:47:40
something up, guess what? You look like
00:47:43
you're covering something up. So it's
00:47:44
like, you should probably move this
00:47:46
forward so that you can stop everybody
00:47:48
from thinking you did something [ __ ]
00:47:50
up. Yeah, exactly. Because right now, I
00:47:52
think you did something [ __ ] up. Well,
00:47:55
the family was again disappointed in
00:47:57
2010 when they learned that a forensic
00:48:00
scientist who had been named in an
00:48:01
evidence falsification case possibly
00:48:04
handled evidence in Kristen's case. Shut
00:48:08
up. Possibly the [ __ ] up. This scientist
00:48:10
is said to have falsified data in
00:48:12
multiple cases and then went on to
00:48:15
falsify records to cover up that fake
00:48:17
data.
00:48:20
I am speechless. which like I'm serious.
00:48:23
Like why why you are [ __ ] with
00:48:25
people's lives. Like just do your job.
00:48:28
Phyllis said I mean my god this is an
00:48:31
important job they're doing and how
00:48:32
could they allow this and not be
00:48:34
supervised properly. It's just beyond
00:48:36
me. Yeah. But what I will tell you is
00:48:38
that there's a petition we are going to
00:48:40
share on socials and in the show notes
00:48:42
and it surrounds all of the DNA testing
00:48:44
in Christine's case and it goes into
00:48:46
more detail about the issues that the
00:48:48
family has faced trying to get the DNA
00:48:50
tested. Okay. And importantly, most
00:48:53
importantly is asking the New York State
00:48:55
Health Commissioner to approve that lab.
00:48:57
Let's go, [ __ ] I'm going to
00:48:59
share it and we are all going to sign
00:49:01
out of everyone annoy the [ __ ] out of
00:49:03
them until they do this because like
00:49:06
what are you doing? Come on. Like come
00:49:08
on. There's literal DNA. Like what are
00:49:11
you doing? And it's degrading the more
00:49:13
it sits. Exactly. And it's like you just
00:49:15
waiting for it to degrade. That's Well,
00:49:17
that's exactly but also this specific
00:49:20
lab like they're pioneers in this. They
00:49:22
are. Exactly. Like they know what
00:49:24
they're doing with this. So it's weird
00:49:26
that you're not allowing them to even
00:49:28
look at it while they're getting sick.
00:49:29
Like come on. Not even really giving a
00:49:32
valid reason. No, it's shady. And if you
00:49:35
don't want to look shady, let them test
00:49:36
you. If you don't want to look shady,
00:49:37
then let them do it. Despite the best
00:49:40
efforts of the Okonnell family, though,
00:49:42
investigators even and several
00:49:43
high-profile politicians actually, uh,
00:49:46
it appears that the skin fragments
00:49:48
discovered on Kristen's body still have
00:49:50
not been submitted for shameful as [ __ ]
00:49:53
That is shameful. Many many like even
00:49:56
politicians have been calling on the New
00:49:58
York State Health Department being like
00:50:00
just allow this. Just sign off on it.
00:50:02
Ah, can't let up on that. Yeah. Can't
00:50:04
let up. Can't. But now, 40 years after
00:50:07
her daughter's death, Phyllis Okonnell
00:50:09
worries that her daughter's case will
00:50:10
never be solved because of this. I can't
00:50:12
let that happen. And soon she worries
00:50:13
that there will be nobody left to
00:50:15
advocate for Kristen. In 2023, she said,
00:50:18
"I promised Kristen till the day I die,
00:50:20
I will be after who killed her."
00:50:22
And after four decades, her message
00:50:24
remains the same as it did the day she
00:50:26
learned her daughter was murdered. She
00:50:28
said, "Don't keep secrets. Don't keep
00:50:30
something like this going because maybe
00:50:31
the next person might be your daughter
00:50:33
and you will know the kind of pain it is
00:50:35
to lose a daughter and especially
00:50:37
through murder."
00:50:38
That just like destroys my soul.
00:50:40
Everyone go sign that petition. I'm
00:50:43
going to we're going to put it in the
00:50:44
show notes and we'll share it on socials
00:50:46
as well. Um it's a long link so if I
00:50:48
read it here it's just it'll get lost.
00:50:51
So, I'll put it in socials and again on
00:50:54
the show notes. Yeah. So, it'll be right
00:50:55
at the bottom of this episode in the
00:50:57
show notes. You'll be able to see it and
00:50:58
link it. There'll be a link. We'll
00:50:59
literally like you can click the link.
00:51:00
Yeah. So, you can click it. And then
00:51:02
also again like Ash said in the socials
00:51:05
we will do it because
00:51:07
that [ __ ] everywhere. I want this I want
00:51:11
them to have to move on this. I want
00:51:12
them to have to move on this. And I want
00:51:14
Phyllis at least to be able to see the
00:51:17
movement on this, right? And not have to
00:51:19
live every day worrying that like she's
00:51:21
going to pass away someday without
00:51:23
knowing what happened to her and that
00:51:24
she's going to that this DNA torture
00:51:26
sitting there, right? That must be the
00:51:28
most frustrating thing in the entire
00:51:30
world. The DNA is sitting there and the
00:51:32
lab is sitting there who has the
00:51:33
technology and to at least try to do
00:51:35
this, right? Right. Just give it a shot.
00:51:38
What the [ __ ] are we doing stopping
00:51:40
murders from being solved through red
00:51:42
tape? [ __ ] that. Yeah, it it shouldn't
00:51:45
even be a thing that it shouldn't be a
00:51:47
thing. So, definitely sign that
00:51:49
petition. And also, anybody with
00:51:51
information about this case because
00:51:53
somebody out there knows something.
00:51:55
Somebody saw something. Somebody knows
00:51:58
something. Somebody Yeah. Any
00:52:01
information, anybody with any
00:52:02
information is asked to contact the New
00:52:04
York State Police. And that number is
00:52:08
585398-4125. Again, 585398-4125.
00:52:13
Damn. I want this case to be solved. I
00:52:16
want them to submit that DNA. I want
00:52:19
that to at least be put into motion.
00:52:22
Yeah, it's got to Nobody's saying that
00:52:24
it's like that 100% it's going to work,
00:52:27
but why the [ __ ] not try? Why not try?
00:52:30
Why not try? And like, hey politicians
00:52:33
and everybody and whoever's like red
00:52:35
taping this, if you're listening, her
00:52:37
dad died without knowing what happened
00:52:38
to her. Her mom shouldn't have to die
00:52:40
without knowing what happened to her
00:52:41
daughter. And what if this was your kid?
00:52:44
Like her mom said, what if this would
00:52:45
you want that DNA sitting on a shelf and
00:52:47
and just because of red tape and
00:52:49
[ __ ] bureaucracy, it doesn't get
00:52:51
submitted to a pioneering lab that could
00:52:53
potentially give you the answers you
00:52:55
need? Would you be fine with that?
00:52:57
Because you'd be like,
00:52:59
like was that what you would do? No.
00:53:02
Like, no, you would. If it was for you,
00:53:04
you'd be slicing through that red tape.
00:53:06
Exactly. So, cuz it's not yours. You're
00:53:08
You don't give a [ __ ] But put yourself
00:53:09
in somebody else's shoes. Empathy,
00:53:11
people. It's so frustrating. I know. It
00:53:13
really is. I really I hope that we get
00:53:15
news soon that I just want this to move
00:53:18
forward. It's got to It's got to Yeah.
00:53:21
40 years and her family has no [ __ ]
00:53:23
answers. Like, come on. like her parents
00:53:26
lost a child, her brother lost a sister.
00:53:28
Come on. Let's go. And somebody's just
00:53:30
out there walking around. Let's go, bro.
00:53:33
Let's go. Let's get this moving. Come
00:53:35
on. You guys are [ __ ] powerful as
00:53:37
hell. You are, by the way. Yeah, you are
00:53:39
powerful. Go sign this petition,
00:53:41
everybody, because we asked if you were
00:53:43
able to to share and donate to the
00:53:44
Allison Botha um fundraiser. You guys
00:53:49
surpassed her goal. Yeah, you blew it
00:53:50
up. You blew it up. You're powerful as
00:53:53
[ __ ] We can get this [ __ ] to happen.
00:53:55
You get [ __ ] moving and you get [ __ ]
00:53:57
done. And we've seen you do it before.
00:54:00
One thing about morbid listeners, they
00:54:02
get [ __ ] done. So, we know you guys can
00:54:05
do this. You're badass [ __ ]
00:54:09
and you give a [ __ ] So, do it. Exactly.
00:54:12
And with that being said, we hope that
00:54:14
you keep listening and we hope you keep
00:54:17
it weird. Keep it so weird that you sign
00:54:21
the [ __ ] out of this petition and you
00:54:23
get everyone in your goddamn life to
00:54:25
sign that [ __ ] too. Let's go. Sign it.
00:54:29
Bye bye.
00:54:31
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00:54:58
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