00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is [Music] morbid we were doing a little room
00:00:26
silence before we started recording cuz it like makes it sound better or something I don't know space and noise
00:00:32
Dynamics but uh space and noise Dynamics brought to you by Ash but then Elena was
00:00:37
spaced out so me and Mikey would just staring at her like girl are you going to say hey weirdos are not I was I was
00:00:42
spaced out cuz I don't know how to save documents on a computer and actually then send them to people so oh that
00:00:48
sounds difficult it gets a it gets a little hairy on my end cuz I don't gets a little difficult difficult lemon
00:00:54
difficult it's a lot I don't know how to fix it but you know did you figure it out uh not quite but you know get there
00:01:00
I usually just copy and paste the link that's pretty smart yeah but you know some people don't like that they don't
00:01:05
like a link I don't care what they like I don't give a [ __ ] with people like send what I can send I do my best I do
00:01:11
my best that's all you could do that's all I can do that's all you can do oh everybody it's been snowing
00:01:20
today everybody it's been snowing I'm about to leave the contract I get in away from this
00:01:34
snow I am jealous um I like snow I like winter but like this has been kind of poopy yeah but you're not that jealous
00:01:41
because I'm going on a cruise and you don't like cruises no I'm not jealous of that I'm so [ __ ] excited I'm about to
00:01:45
utilize that drink package I'm about to utilize that hot tub I'm about to utilize that free uh I was going to say
00:01:52
free Wi-Fi but there isn't that free whiffy in fact the whiffy is pretty darn expensive if you ask me expensive whiffy
00:01:59
but I'll be around if you need me Po sad um hopefully we won't hopefully you can
00:02:04
just have a nice relaxing vacation yeah don't need me the plan don't also don't get Co while I'm gone this time oh Lord
00:02:11
have mercy I hope not I I think I'm in that like aren't I in that little uh immunity period hyper immunity that's
00:02:18
what they say that's what I say hey hey oh my God we kids stop singing It's a murder on the jge floor oh yeah an
00:02:27
update I know I'm updating you every single episode about my feelings on salur yeah what was your previous update
00:02:33
my previous update was I like I'm like I don't know about it I'm going to watch it and it's part and it is partially Ash
00:02:39
that has convinced me I want you all to know that louder for the people in the back one more time one more thing Ash
00:02:45
definitely convinced me oh baby but also Tik Tok has indoctrinated me as well there is the that of it all I think Tik
00:02:53
Tok is actually helping me figure out how I feel about it I think I've decided that overall it's a great movie I would
00:02:59
probably watch it again I think if I like really was in the mood to get my [ __ ] rocked I you know sometimes you're
00:03:05
in the mood to get your [ __ ] rocked and I feel Drew has decided he he was like I
00:03:10
don't know if I like it wasn't for him yeah I I'm just like intrigued now like I think I'm I'm I'm too intrigued not to
00:03:18
at this point like I've seen too much I've heard too much I've seen too many reactions I am vibing hard with that
00:03:25
song oh who is I've seen the end and where that song comes from so like you know what I want to have that energy in
00:03:31
my life maybe maybe you like that song you can't deny that's great energy at the end I mean like for
00:03:43
him maybe not for everyone else but you need to watch um no I know what happens I know why he's doing that oh yeah
00:03:51
you're just crazy I've been spoiled you're just cucko nuts just CU nuts that's all I guess you could argue that
00:03:56
his energy yeah yeah I mean he's having a blast he's I think he's having a blast
00:04:01
the whole way through and we don't even know it I'm sure he is having a blast no
00:04:05
he is that's the thing at one point sorry I can't even I won't spoil anything I want to spoil spoil but you
00:04:10
like that that song at the end which I also love but I also am I'm a I don't even know what the correct wording is
00:04:18
but I [ __ ] so heavy with that one two three four yeah that one I can't down with I can't get down with that one it
00:04:28
just makes me want to celebrate something but murder on the dance flooor I can I can get down with that yeah we
00:04:34
showed it to the kids this morning and they were like I don't know about this yeah they were like man they're like
00:04:38
this song is weird yeah we were like have a good day at school have a good day at school have a good day at school
00:04:43
bye well there's really no transition out of that but that's what we do we talk about weird random [ __ ] such as
00:04:49
saltburn and then random songs that are having a Resurgence and then we say there's really no transition for that
00:04:56
I'm going to tell you a sad awful story it's what we do so that's what we're doing right now and we're going to
00:05:00
continue to do it yeah and for for a while forever that's a lot of commitment but no today we're going to
00:05:09
be talking about the murder of Gary Triano this is a crazy case I think this was actually like one of the first dat
00:05:15
lines that I ever watched when I was like really getting into True Crime we got a date line yeah I think so I I
00:05:21
didn't watch the I didn't watch it again recently but like now I want to watch it
00:05:26
um but let's get into it okay let's get into it well Gary Triano he was born in Sacramento
00:05:32
California on November 6th 1943 and he grew up in Arizona after graduating from high school in 1961 he
00:05:40
enrolled at the University of Arizona and eventually he did graduate with his degree in Accounting in 1965 so college
00:05:48
graduate woo once he was done with school he ended up marrying Mary crra in the late 60s and they welcomed their
00:05:55
first baby in 1970 they had a daughter that they named Heather and then Heather was followed the next year by a son
00:06:01
Brian okay by 1970 Gary had found work as a car salesman in Tucson and with the arriv arrival of their second child he
00:06:09
really wanted to take his professional life more seriously kind of level up a little bit level up level up level up so
00:06:16
in 1971 he got a real estate license and embarked on his first development project this was going to be a 97 home
00:06:23
development in the Northeast part of Tucson and the project did eventually go through but it wasn't without protests
00:06:29
from the public and a significant amount of zoning red tape like this wasn't just
00:06:34
an easy project that he started out with it was a little bit of a nightmare sounds like it but it was actually his
00:06:40
early experiences with this development that prompted him to actually run for City Council in the spring of 1973 he
00:06:47
told reporters zoning must uh must best utilize the available land for the benefit of the total Community not just
00:06:54
for the nextd door neighbor or the real estate developer so he was like getting into it he wanted to make it a better
00:07:00
experience for the community as a whole she's you know he's doing the damn thing
00:07:04
he is but unfortunately he was eventually deemed ineligible to run for the seat because he failed to meet The
00:07:10
Residency requirement for the ward but that didn't matter because he remained committed to working to overhaul the
00:07:16
city's zoning laws and make them friendlier towards developers okay in the years that followed Gary worked
00:07:22
really hard to build a name for himself in the real estate and finance Industries he invested in properties and
00:07:27
developments around Arizona and actually he even bridged out into other areas including film oh wow yeah he's doing it
00:07:34
all in 1978 he and Mary his wife went to the can film festival where a film that
00:07:40
he actually executive produced called mafu cage debuted and was followed by a big old industry party wow this is fancy
00:07:48
it is uh unfortunately though his while his business prospered throughout the late '70s and into the early 80s his
00:07:56
relationship with Mary was slowly crumbling in I'm not sure like all the ins and outs but it does sound like he
00:08:03
had a lot of projects going on she's finding herself like a new mom and probably alone a lot it sounds but it
00:08:11
just wasn't working out and by late 1985 he had actually started seeing another woman named Pamela Phillips so not great
00:08:20
never it's never good when it starts that way no by the following year he and Mary decided to divorce and in October
00:08:26
of 1986 Gary and Pam actually got married married in San Diego California so they
00:08:31
started seeing each other in 1985 like late 1985 and by October 86 they were married so it was like wham bam yeah it
00:08:39
was just Pam boom Thank you Pam exactly that was very good wham bam going to marry you Pam there you go now unlike
00:08:47
Gary's first wife Mary who was active in community groups and charitable organizations she was like really into
00:08:53
the community as a whole Pam uh was the opposite a lot of people saw her as the EMB bodyman of self-centered excess
00:09:01
characteristics of the finance industry in the late 1980s wow they were essentially they kind of thought she was
00:09:08
a [ __ ] I was going to say that's what that sounds like it's a nice way to say she was a [ __ ] very long-winded way of
00:09:13
saying she's kind of a [ __ ] yeah I'm not saying that she was they just kind of saying that according to Tucson
00:09:19
Weekly Pam quote grew up in the Tucson Country Club Privilege and had always enjoyed a high visibility life of luxury
00:09:27
she was also active in Tucson real estate development and Republican politics which was actually rare for
00:09:32
women at the time she was she worked a lot and a reporter for the Tucson Weekly wrote she used her beauty to pursue
00:09:39
listings deals and commissions and she was not above using Cutthroat tactics to get what she
00:09:44
wanted I mean at this very moment right now she sounds like a like a boss [ __ ]
00:09:51
that's actually exactly what I was just about to say in this one moment yeah in this Mo I know nothing about this case
00:09:57
so yeah I don't know who any of these people are I'm just saying in this one moment that could change you can't deny
00:10:04
it she was she was [ __ ] going for sounds like Boss [ __ ] moves now another friend and political Insider told a
00:10:09
reporter in 2001 Pam will rip your heart out for a commission so maybe not like the nicest person yeah I mean that
00:10:16
that's pretty intense yeah now if Gary's Life with Mary his previous wife had been you know chill and relatively
00:10:22
conservative his life with Pam was uh the exact opposite yet again they lived a social life very much in the public
00:10:28
eye included entertaining wealthy guests from Real Estate and finance Industries
00:10:33
like um some guy named Donald Trump who yeah I don't know him and his then wife Mara Maples I don't know her either yeah
00:10:41
it's not ringing a bell but yeah they were friends of them crazy wild Pam and Gary became regular fixtures at Society
00:10:48
events and fundraisers University of Arizona basketball games and the tuon country club almost always traveling in
00:10:56
Gary's preferred uh mode of transportation a rented stretch limo a rented stretch limo in my notes I wrote
00:11:03
subtle I was going to say that is the most conspicuous car it is but it's also just so 80s like oh that a rented
00:11:12
stretch limo 8s yes love it oh so while nobody doubted that there was love between Pam and Gary friends would later
00:11:20
say that quote it was also money that Pam truly loves money money money money Wow money on brand did you purose
00:11:29
no I didn't but in the mid 1980s Gary had plenty of money he was at the peak of his career and he was living a life
00:11:37
that would later be described by the press as extravagant why couldn't I just say that word extravagant confident and
00:11:44
flamboyant he and Pam owned a home on the grounds of the prestigious Skyline Country Club they had a private
00:11:50
chauffeur they owned a private jet and they always used it for trips between Arizona California Nevada New York they
00:11:58
were just popping off damn yeah and actually she had made a considerable career for herself with assets totaling
00:12:05
nearly 2 million by her own account holy [ __ ] but Pam was happy to quit working
00:12:10
after she and Gary got married embracing a new life where he provided her with everything that she needed wow now
00:12:17
within a year of the wedding Pam gave birth to their first child followed by another three years later and the best
00:12:23
years of their marriage Gary and Pam were pretty generous with their money they would always bring Friends Along on
00:12:28
their lavish ation to flashy destinations and they took care of those that they loved yeah and their
00:12:34
friendships with the likes of that guy named Trump and their regular trips to Las Vegas and Atlantic City they were
00:12:40
more than just casual associations because gambling actually played a big role in Gary's not only personal but
00:12:47
professional life oh okay throughout the 80s he had built part of uh excuse me a
00:12:52
big part of his business and his reputation on developing Arizona's indigenous gambling industry and gaming
00:12:59
industry working with tribal commissions from multiple Native American tribes to
00:13:03
develop large casinos and resorts and by the late 80s his interests had expanded
00:13:08
beyond the Arizona borders to include developments and G and gaming projects in the Caribbean China and even the
00:13:15
Middle East so damn he's going worldwide worldwide worldwide there you go no the
00:13:21
real estate and development business often put Gary in close proximity to known members of organized crime
00:13:27
families including Joseph banano the bananos the bananos and they just keep coming around I know I found myself in
00:13:35
Arizona again yeah but in case you forgot from my last AR Arizona case where Joseph bonano was a a little part
00:13:41
of it he was the head of New York uh New York's bonano crime family and he retired to Arizona in the mid 1970s and
00:13:49
actually I don't think I said this last time but he became active in Arizona real estate when he left his life of
00:13:55
crime W right I mean yeah what are you going to do yeah I got to standup job I guess some homes yeah you know can you
00:14:01
[ __ ] imagine if he was your real estate just like you're having a showing with like a part of the bonano crime
00:14:06
family you're just like I don't think he was like a an agent I he was just involved can you imagine
00:14:12
hey he's like you want to buy this home you're like yeah I do of course I do I would love to like you know what I'll
00:14:18
pay more I'll sign anything right now um it was supposedly bonano who actually helped finance gar first business in the
00:14:25
late '70s leading some Associates to link him to the m AIA until and actually even after his death which it's highly
00:14:33
refuted yeah Dr Lawrence de Antonio though told CBS News in 2017 about Gary he's a very flamboyant man and he's also
00:14:40
very good-looking but he's rotten to the core oh not a nice thing to say damn imagine somebody calling you rotten to
00:14:47
the core after your death like holy [ __ ] after your like violent violent death
00:14:52
yeah or at any time it's just like damn that's a that's a like indictment on someone rotten to the core that's rough
00:15:00
de Antonio claimed to have known Gary since they were children and insisted he was a con man a thief and he would Rob
00:15:06
or steal from anybody including his own family his own wife damn even as a kid he was a con
00:15:13
man let's just be clear that this is one person's assessment yeah now whether or
00:15:18
not Gary was actually involved or associated with organized crime is somewhat unclear but it is refuted by
00:15:25
anybody close to him who really knew him but his work in real estate finance and
00:15:29
development did eventually lead to Serious personal and professional trouble one way or the other yeah by the
00:15:35
end of the decade a real estate bust and a global stock stock market crash had caused tremendous losses for investors
00:15:42
and developers around the world and for the first time in almost 20 years Gary found himself in very very dire
00:15:50
Financial Straits uhoh yeah the financial collapse had caused the real estate market specifically to stall so
00:15:57
Gary was struggling to sell prop properties that he'd spent years investing and developing so he was
00:16:02
unable to sell these properties so he quickly found himself with really serious cash flow shortages that
00:16:08
prevented him from paying his creditors so of course lawsuits followed so he's just in a [ __ ] I was going to say
00:16:15
there's just a bunch of just [ __ ] around that's the thing [ __ ] storms everywhere
00:16:21
true [ __ ] storm and the crash and the subsequent real estate bust caused significant losses for a lot of people
00:16:27
around the world but Gary's business losses were also accompanied by his personal gambling debts which also had
00:16:34
begun to spiral out of control oh boy by 1993 he was being sued by multiple organizations and the next year he
00:16:40
actually sadly had to uh file for chapter 11 bankruptcy he cited $40 million in debts whoa yeah and that's in
00:16:50
93 I actually 40 million yeah and 93 money I didn't look up the conversion but holy [ __ ]
00:16:59
now the financial problems of course I'm sure anybody could assume led to problems in Gary and Pam's relationship
00:17:06
and in December of 1993 they actually ended up separating with Pam kicking Gary out of their country club home a
00:17:13
messy divorce and a custody battle quickly followed with Pam taking out three restraining orders against her
00:17:18
soon to be ex-husband among other things she claimed Gary quot carded a loaded gun around on the front seat of his car
00:17:25
mixed booze with and anti-depressants through things tore her clothes and was harassing her at all hours of the day oh
00:17:32
man in documents filed with the court during the divorce proceeding she claimed my household help has even been
00:17:37
scared away o it's like let's not call people the help yeah I was going to say eek I'm like I know there's a lot other
00:17:44
of other things to impact there but that's yikes yeah now it's unclear whether there was any truth to these
00:17:49
claims or if Pam was simply trying to bolster her claim for full custody which that does happen oh man it's I hate when
00:17:56
there's kids involved it's so messy but her behavior during the divorce did little to ende her to the judge or to
00:18:02
the court system during a custody hearing in March of 1994 quote Pam became infuriated when she thought Gary
00:18:09
was mocking her with laughter and retaliated in the hallway outside of the Court throwing a cup of water at Gary
00:18:16
which the judge later cited her for what what are you thinking it's also like you're a [ __ ] adult yeah really and
00:18:24
it's like you're at a custody hearing for your kids yeah that's not going to look good yeah that's the thing losing
00:18:30
your temper and throwing something like that's you can't do that and like whether or not you are afraid of him I
00:18:36
don't think that's showing the judge that you really are well that's the thing and it and it's just it's honestly
00:18:41
just showing when you lose your temper you'll throw things exactly everybody's human but it's like that's a place you
00:18:47
don't want to do that no exactly you got to you got to keep it contained in a court case now the case was settled a
00:18:53
few months later and Pam was given full custody of the children and at that point she actually left Arizona and
00:18:59
relocated to Aspen Colorado so she packed up the kids and left damn now despite being nearly a th000 miles away
00:19:06
now the distance did little to quell the vitriol between Gary and Pam shortly after moving to Aspen Pam tried to get
00:19:13
yet another restraining order against Gary claiming and this is a quote a friend had told her that Triano
00:19:18
announced if it weren't for their kids she'd be dead whoa which like that's a big claim yeah had it been granted which
00:19:25
I don't believe it was the restraining order would almost certainly have affected what little access Gary even
00:19:30
had to his kids at this point oh damn which already was causing a significant source of dis of distress for Gary
00:19:37
because this was already a difficult point in his life financially and personally with all the gambling debts
00:19:42
and everything and now his kids are like completely ripped away from him damn and
00:19:47
they move this far away yeah but um his friend John condis told a reporter in 2001 he loved and missed his kids and
00:19:55
added that Gary was never without a cell phone to ensure he never miss a call from those kids oh that makes me sad
00:20:01
yeah and no matter what happened between Pam and Gary obviously you hope that there wasn't actual violence yeah but it
00:20:07
it does sound like he was a really devoted father well you hope so I mean like people's people's relationship with
00:20:13
their kids and with their spouse can be a totally different version of themselves you know what I mean abely
00:20:20
not and by no means is it okay to treat your spouse like [ __ ] no but that doesn't mean he was you know it doesn't
00:20:25
mean he was a bad dad right I me again know these people so maybe he was but it doesn't sound like it it sounds like he
00:20:31
was sound I was going to say it sounds like from what people who knew him said and that's all we can go off like off of
00:20:40
what the [ __ ] I was like under over around over on under that's all we can go off of like I think I malfunctioned
00:20:47
for a second I glitched that's all we can go off of as people who know him we don't know him if somebody says you know
00:20:53
he was a devoted dad that's all we can really go off of and that's really sad that is you know now after the divorce
00:20:59
Gary moved into a home in Sable Canyon with his business partner Richard hickey and started trying to rebuild his
00:21:05
business which this shows you how rough it was for him he literally has to become a roommate with his business
00:21:11
partner like that sucks in the two months since he filed for bankruptcy he had lost nearly $26 million and per his
00:21:19
creditor repayment schedule was only projected to make about $230,000 annually for the following
00:21:25
years wow I say only obviously that's a lot of money but I say only because of the debt that he was up against yeah now
00:21:32
the significant drop in income also meant that he was struggling to pay child support each month and he actually
00:21:38
ended up often turning to his ex-wife Mary for help and paying his debts wow which [ __ ] Mary hell yeah sister yeah
00:21:46
seriously like what a Queen Mary for the win and yet again I feel like you know like it probably took a lot for him to
00:21:53
turn to his ex-wife and say like can I have money to help for my for my kids like I feel like that also shows his
00:21:59
Devotion to his children yeah that he wasn't willing to just like Let It Go he wasn't gonna not pay child support which
00:22:05
a lot of people don't pay child support exactly now I will also say despite his financial difficulties he still
00:22:13
struggled to reain in his spending he continued traveling first class he continued gambling and spending
00:22:19
thousands on business entertaining oh man we're not learning our lesson here we not learning our lesson and I will
00:22:24
say obviously I know gambling is an addiction so it's tough it's not like you can just shut it off exactly now in
00:22:30
1994 his company New Frontier investment started an association with Platinum mortgage and financial services a Tucson
00:22:37
Finance Company it was at Platinum that Gary met 31-year-old Robin Gardner and despite a 20-year age difference the two
00:22:45
began a very intense and passionate relationship wow a few months later Robin was pregnant W and in 1995 she
00:22:52
gave birth to their child damn she hoped that the baby would be enough reason for
00:22:57
Gary to marry Mar her but after two failed marriages and you know not really being in a position to have a huge
00:23:03
wedding he insisted that he was not interested in marriage okay which I can see why he didn't want to I can see why
00:23:10
that would be a huge blow to her after delivering a child 100% like that sucks yeah according to a reporter for Tucson
00:23:18
Weekly his refusal to marry Robin quote touched off a series of Storms and exchanges of accusations of abuse and
00:23:24
violence Oh no just a mess the verbal arguments often escalated into physical altercations including one incident in
00:23:33
which Gary actually called 911 on Robin after she threw a vase at him in their garage oh my God everybody needs to calm
00:23:40
the [ __ ] down I know why is everybody so aggressively violent with each other super aggressively violent while his
00:23:47
romantic life seemed uh destined for failure at this point by the fall of 1996 Gary's professional life was
00:23:54
finally starting to pick up some steam he was still struggling to keep keep up with his creditors and for the
00:23:59
bankruptcy payment res or repayment schedule excuse me but he had recently started working on a few new business
00:24:06
projects including a casino in China which would be the first of It kind with the bulk of his financial and romantic
00:24:12
troubles behind him Gary started off November 1996 with a renewed sense of optimism he was really looking forward
00:24:19
to just starting fresh and also celebrating his 53rd birthday with friends and family he's like you know
00:24:26
what it's been a [ __ ] few years move on it's like it's been a [ __ ] 10 years at this point let's let's go let's
00:24:32
go into the mid-50s happy you know go now on the afternoon of November 1st 1996 he played a round of golf with his
00:24:40
friends at La Paloma Country Club while unbeknown to him friends and family gathered at his house for a surprise
00:24:47
birthday party the golf game wrapped up at about 5:30 that night and Gary made his way out to the parking lot where he
00:24:53
parked The Borrowed Lincoln Town Car that he'd been driving after exchanging ing some pleasantries with with an
00:24:59
acquaintance in the lot he got into the driver's seat of the car and noticed that a blue canvas bag was sitting on
00:25:05
the passenger seat and he kind of looked at it because he hadn't he hadn't put that there and it wasn't there when he
00:25:11
parked the car out of just a few hours earlier he reached over to inspect the bag and as soon as he touched it the bag
00:25:19
exploded engulfing the car in flames and shattering the glass of all the nearby cars and the Country Club's Windows holy
00:25:27
[ __ ] it was massive explosion oh the canvas bag actually contained a large pipe bomb which and this is very Bleak
00:25:35
and very gruesome it killed Gary instantly blowing open his skull quote splitting it apart by an inch and a half
00:25:44
on the right part of his forehead for a length of more than 4 in leaving a bridge of bone oh my gosh the autopsy
00:25:51
report indicated that among other things shrapnel from the bomb had pierced his brain the explosion had burned turned
00:25:57
off his hair and ruptured both of his eyeballs holy [ __ ] during a search of the scene his left hand was discovered
00:26:05
among debris from the blast nearly 200 yards away from the car oh my so he didn't even know what
00:26:13
happened he was killed instantly instantly oh that's awful according to his gold Mavado watch which stopped at
00:26:20
the time of the explosion he died at 5:38 p.m. now he was on his way to a surprise
00:26:26
birthday party all of his friends and family are at his house waiting for him oh yeah the news
00:26:33
of Gary's death reached friends and family a few hours later many of whom like I just said just arrived at his
00:26:39
surprise birthday party when Pam got the news she later told CBS News I was absolutely hysterical and I'm thinking
00:26:46
oh my God what am I going to do I immediately thought who is it he hadn't paid before the bombing Gary was in uh
00:26:52
was totally in fear going around with a gun he had life threats I had life threats the children had life threats
00:26:58
we're talking about the Mexican Mafia people you don't cross H so she's offering up I was just
00:27:05
going to say kind of excuses here what a what a response and it's also I love that she has to insert herself into it
00:27:12
like I had life well that's the thing she's like by the way me too it's like one thing to bring up your children of
00:27:17
course but to be like and I did well and it's also just like wouldn't your first
00:27:21
thought just be like I don't even know how to comprehend this like not let me give you 40 different ways that this
00:27:27
have happened like exactly I don't know exactly and just like saying you're hysterical is interesting like obviously
00:27:35
no matter what you did love this person at some point but you were just involved
00:27:38
in the most bitter divorce custody battle ever you moved super far away from him after filing multiple
00:27:44
restrainers and you're hysterical and you don't know what you're going to do without him that's the thing you don't
00:27:49
know what you're going to do without him I don't know about that yeah uh intense
00:27:53
we'll say yeah while a few of Pam's friends believed her stories about Gary involvement with organized crime most
00:27:59
thought that her comments at the time were strange and very unbelievable a family friend Laura Chapman told CBS
00:28:05
when she was asked about Pam's claims that the family had been threatened and felt unsafe she said that's absurd I
00:28:11
don't believe that ever happened I think that's actually just completely made up
00:28:14
wow so that's interesting yeah despite what most of his friends and family said the gambling and supposed organized
00:28:23
crime link did prove too tempting for investigators yeah of well you have to look into it exactly when somebody says
00:28:29
something like that you can't just probably not right unfortunately I think they spent too much time on it though I
00:28:34
will say yeah they immediately started pursuing Gary's death as a mob pit well that's the thing you can't pursue it in
00:28:41
one exclusively one Focus you can go down that path while also exploring other paths have several Avenues give
00:28:49
them all the same attention and the answer will come exactly peba County uh Sheriff Clarence dupnik told reporters
00:28:56
he had huge Gam gambling debts he made deals between people who financed and built casinos and some of those projects
00:29:01
were unsuccessful it was basically indicating that the HIIT could have been the result of an unpaid mob debt okay
00:29:08
now to those who knew him the notion that Gary's death was the result of shady or illegal activities was not only
00:29:14
impossible but also extremely offensive I bet it was like friends and family hearing that their loved one is some guy
00:29:21
tied up an organized crime and that's why he died if that's not the case I can understand why that's really ensive to
00:29:28
have people being like Yep this is it like I can't imagine if people like if that happened to my dad or like my loved
00:29:33
one and people were going around saying that yeah cuz you're like no this is a tragedy let's figure out what happen and
00:29:38
let's focus on that the tragedy of it all now to Gary's friend and business partner Frank bumi or bumi excuse me the
00:29:46
suggestion of Mafia involvement seemed politically motivated oh he told reporters there was no organized crime
00:29:52
aspect in any Arizona casino or any casino we've been involved with but still according to him opponents of exp
00:29:59
expanded Gaming use the death as evidence to support their claims that gaming results in a rise of crime or
00:30:06
other unsavory activities that's interesting which so gross and opportunistic to use absolutely not cool
00:30:15
but you can see where he's coming from you're like oh okay yeah I I mean gross and opportunistic of people that would
00:30:20
use that exactly yeah but and you can see why he's thinking that exactly but if not the mob who would want G Triano
00:30:27
dead and why there were of course G's or there was of course Gary's considerable
00:30:33
unpaid debt but those were all with legitimate businesses and organizations who actually stood to lose even more if
00:30:40
Gary was to die before paying what he owed that's kind of what I was thinking too is if these are legitimate
00:30:45
businesses it's like it's worse if he's not around to pay the debt right ex you just keep taking money from him right
00:30:51
you know like you would get that debt exactly but despite that the Puma County Sheriff continued to pursue Gary's
00:30:57
finances as their primary theory for the murder the sheriff said there were a number of people who would have reason
00:31:02
to be angry with him some in his personal relationships and other problems could have cropped up from his
00:31:07
financial relationships yet throughout the early weeks of the investigation the sheriff continued to promote the
00:31:14
suspected connection to organized crime as the motive he told reporters a week after Gary's murder in the past the mob
00:31:21
has used this message not only is it a powerful violent way to kill but it sends a message perhaps to others it's
00:31:27
speculation but it's disconcerting speculation I mean I I agree with that at the end it is but let me just tell
00:31:34
you they are on the wrong track here oh boy yeah while investigators dug through
00:31:39
Gary's personal life for leads technicians of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms ATF for short began
00:31:45
analyzing the wreckage for clues that could Point them in the direction of the motive or the killer in a rush to
00:31:51
provide some information to the press a spokesperson told them it was a quote pipe bomb filled with black gunpowder
00:31:58
that killed Gary Triano ATF agent Sig CA said we know exactly what most of the bomb pieces are and what portion of the
00:32:05
device they belong to at this point it's just a matter of putting it all together
00:32:09
damn now while agents may have appeared confident when it came to the information that was being passed on to
00:32:15
the reporters this would prove to be one of a few inaccuracies that were conveyed
00:32:20
to the Press cuz they were rushing right stop rushing to get information out and
00:32:23
get the good information out yeah and there's some people talking to the press that are not as close to the case as
00:32:29
they seem to be awesome because in fact when technicians had finally finished processing the vehicle a few weeks later
00:32:35
they discovered several pieces of electronic scrap that would eventually confirm the bomb used in Gary's murder
00:32:41
was remotely detonated oh [ __ ] isn't that [ __ ] wild what yeah so after weeks of Investigation Pac County uh
00:32:50
investigators were no closer to discovering who killed Gary Triano than they were on day one Sergeant Michael
00:32:56
oconor told reporters it's like a game of Clue this is a classic we don't have a shortage of potential suspects I'm
00:33:02
like how classic is this yeah I love that it's like this is a classic I'm sorry what and he ended a golf game got
00:33:09
into his car and got blown up by a pipe bomb in his car that was remotely detonated on his way to a [ __ ]
00:33:15
surprise birthday party yeah point me in the direction of where That's a classic
00:33:19
like damn what has your career B seriously and also can you imagine a a detective sitting there or a police
00:33:26
offic are saying like it's like a game of Clue and it's like it's a game about your loved one's murder I hope you're
00:33:31
not looking at it like a game oh my God I would be like not a great way to describe that it's kind of gross but the
00:33:37
problem was the more time that passed actually the shorter the list of suspects became and fewer and fewer
00:33:43
leads were turning up after a few months of digging through Gary's personal life
00:33:48
and finances investigators came to the conclusion that his friends and family had actually expressed immediately
00:33:54
following his death there was no obvious connection to the mob and shocking that
00:33:58
his friends and family knew him better imagine that and while he may have owed many people money like we were saying
00:34:04
earlier not a single one of those people or companies would have benefited from his death in fact it would be worse so
00:34:10
although none of Gary's creditors like we just said would have benefited from his death there was one person who did
00:34:17
stand to gain financially from this murder a few months after Gary's death his ex-wife Pam Phillips oh no filed a
00:34:25
claim on the $2 million life insurance policy that she had taken out in Gary's name during their marriage with the
00:34:31
beneficiaries being listed as the couple's two minor children meaning who's that money going to go to oh boy
00:34:39
given the considerable payout on the policy and the lack of leads or other new evidence investigators did finally
00:34:45
turn their attention to Pam Phillips who proved to be less than Cooperative you don't say unlike nearly everybody else
00:34:51
interviewed during the investigation Pam actually refused to submit to a polygraph examination claiming that her
00:34:57
lawyer had advised against it which I can see that yeah which maybe fair enough but given the other details skch
00:35:05
if you're also being uncooperative in other avenues then that doesn't look good hand in it's just going to add on
00:35:11
to it it's a little little spice on top Yeah by the spring new leads and evidence had slowed to a trickle at that
00:35:16
point and the investigation team who actually had originally been meeting daily they started scaling back their
00:35:22
efforts until the team was fully disbanded in August when the case had gone completely cold Pam told reporters
00:35:29
I'm sad that they were unable to find whoever did this it just doesn't feel like it's over for me and my children
00:35:35
and the whole family and the whole family yeah me and my children and you know Gary's entire other family
00:35:41
everybody who knew multiple other children for sure um officially the case would remain open and investigators from
00:35:47
multiple agencies would continue working together to find Gary's killer but even
00:35:51
the sheriff's department really held out little hope of solving this case a sheriff's department depart spokesperson
00:35:57
told the Arizona Republic just after the team was disbanded it's looking Slimmer
00:36:02
every day we don't have anything fresh coming in and although this was technically true and there were no
00:36:08
official suspects many within the Sheriff's Office did continue continue to consider Pam a loose end in the
00:36:15
investigation they couldn't find any evidence to really tie her to the murder but at the same time they also couldn't
00:36:21
shake the feeling that she was somehow involved interesting their guts were talking to them yeah the fact that even
00:36:27
the investigators guts were like something's off here yeah they should always trust their gut the investigators
00:36:33
yeah that's the thing but not long after moving to Aspen we know that Pam Phillips befriended her neighbor Ronald
00:36:39
Young and she hired him as a consultant to build a website for a company that she was intending to start their
00:36:45
relationship soon turned romantic and they had a kind of on and off again relationship until 1996 when Ronald
00:36:52
Young abruptly left the state okay in 1996 ah same year that uh very interesting
00:36:59
yeah that Gary died huh his sudden departure without delivering on the service that he'd been paid for by Pam
00:37:05
to complete prompted her attorney to file a police report claiming that Ronald Young had defrauded Pam Phillips
00:37:11
and initially Pam seemed interested in cooperating with the police about this case but a few weeks later she refused
00:37:17
to help in their investigation at all I was literally just going to ask you I was like you know it's weird that she
00:37:23
would involve herself in that if something is a miss but the fact that she pulled back and was like actually no
00:37:29
I don't want to talk to BCE about anything I don't want to get anybody in trouble I don't care about anything I'm
00:37:32
just going to sit over here yeah it's like that's interesting it sounds like she had mentioned it to her attorney and
00:37:37
they thought maybe we can get this back and obviously her attorney probably had no idea about anything else at this
00:37:42
point yeah and he was like let's pursue this and she was like yeah let's get my money back and then was like you know
00:37:46
what on second thought I don't need that money she's like wait a second Never mind take these back SE I don't want it
00:37:51
but despite her change of heart when it came to pressing charges Pam Phillips actually was not the only only one who
00:37:57
made a claim of fraud against Mr Ronald Young in April 1996 just a few weeks after Pam had filed her report against
00:38:04
him two Aspen businessmen made a a similar claim so a search warrant was issued for Young's home where
00:38:11
investigators found evidence related to the fraud case and an arrest warrant ended up being issued in August now
00:38:19
weeks passed with no sign of Ronald Young until Aspen detective James Crowley got a call from police in y
00:38:25
Belinda California regarding the discovery of an abandoned rental car that had been taken out in
00:38:30
Young's name and it was found at the airport near his parents house huh because the vehicle had been reported
00:38:36
stolen by the rental car company the police were able to impound the vehicle and tow it uh they had it towed to the
00:38:42
impound lot where it had just been sitting since its Discovery so detective Crowley actually traveled to California
00:38:49
in October to search the contents that had been found in the vehicle which included a saw off shotgun oh [ __ ] a
00:38:57
laptop computer belonging to Ronald Young a credit report in Pam Phillips name a map of Tucson oh and a large
00:39:05
number of documents from Gary and Pam's divorce what the [ __ ] yeah the evidence
00:39:13
collected from the rental vehicle was uh for sure months later when he heard about the
00:39:28
bombing in Arizona that James Crowley thought about Ronald Young again yeah he remembered Gary Trio's name from the
00:39:35
documents that had been found in the abandoned rental and along with the map of Tucson and he was like that's kind of
00:39:40
weird interesting so he reported the information to the PAC County Sheriff's department but when they were also
00:39:46
unable to locate young they pursued other suspects what the [ __ ] we're just letting him go here like you like you're
00:39:55
just like oh we can't find him can't find him so I guess where in the world is Ronald Young you know what he didn't
00:40:00
do it cuz we can't find him and it's like what no you need to go look nearly a decade passed stop nearly a
00:40:09
[ __ ] decade passed until 2005 when Ronald Young's case appeared on America's Most Wanted oh hey John
00:40:19
Walsh John Walsh for fraud charges uh during which it was also noted that he was a suspect in the Triano murder case
00:40:26
the episode aired in November of 2005 and within a day producer producers producers know I like that producers
00:40:35
producers received several calls from residents in PP pompo Beach I think it's pompo I think it is pompo Beach Florida
00:40:42
saying that a man matching Young's description was living in the area and going by the name Kelly young oh damn
00:40:49
you didn't even change your last name no and I actually I'm pretty sure that Kelly is his middle name so you just
00:40:54
start going by his middle name yikes kind of dumb on November 21st Broward County
00:40:58
Sheriff's officers trailed young to a chiropractic appointment where he was arrested for fraud charges you got to
00:41:05
get that spine right they were like you can't they were like you can't you're going to be uncomfortable they were [ __ ]
00:41:10
you and your spine [ __ ] you and your alignment okay you're finess now when they searched his car in the parking lot
00:41:16
that day officers discovered a loaded gun and credit cards in the name Kelly Young when detectives were able to
00:41:23
search his home and his computers they discovered that he had been receiving regular payments from this lady named um
00:41:29
Pamela Phillips since 1997 shut the [ __ ] up totaling approximately $400,000 shut the [ __ ] she had been
00:41:40
paying him this entire time since 1997 it is now 200 almost decade five yeah yeah holy [ __ ] yeah according to a
00:41:49
forensic accountant who ex examined the evidence the payments were consistent with the scheduled payouts that Pam
00:41:54
Phillips had received from Gary triano's life insurance policy and it appeared to
00:41:59
the accountant that quote the two had attempted to conceal the transactions wow yeah this could not be
00:42:07
more obvious no it truly couldn't in addition to the fraud charges against him now in Colorado young was charged
00:42:13
with being a fugitive in possession of a firearm and served 10 months in a Florida jail and upon his release in
00:42:19
2006 was extradited back to Colorado on the warrant warrant for the uh fraud charges damn so based on the evidence
00:42:26
collected from his home and laptop computer the evidence collected from the abandoned rental vehicle in
00:42:32
1996 investigators on the Triano case had a strong reason to believe that young had been paid by Pamela Phillips
00:42:39
to murder Gary Triano yeah I would say that that's a pretty decent conclusion to come to one might think so while
00:42:46
young sat in a Florida jail on the Firearms charge before he ended up being extradited detectives in Arizona
00:42:52
continued combing through evidence collected from his home and they discovered that he he quote had recorded
00:42:57
hours of telephone conversation with Phillips in which they exhaustively discussed the payments shut up according
00:43:05
to court documents throughout these conversations young and Phillip quote referred to their financial dealings
00:43:11
explicitly and implicitly as an illegal arrangement I how what the fact that he recorded these he recorded all of them
00:43:22
and in most of these conversations Pam expressed concerns they might get caught wow among the more incriminating calls
00:43:30
was one where young reminded Pam that he quote helped her with something that was
00:43:35
beyond what anyone else in the world would probably do and she was living off the benefits of it oh my God that that's
00:43:42
boom in another call where they started arguing about how much money he believed
00:43:46
he was owed he explicitly said if they were caught Pam would quote be in a women's prison for murder all right I
00:43:53
think we it we can slam that book shut case is closed my friends so the recorded calls obviously were sufficient
00:44:01
enough evidence to get a warrant and in September of6 Tucson Cold Case detective
00:44:06
searched Pam's Aspen home seizing a large amount of evidence they believed proved that she had conspired with
00:44:12
Ronald Young to kill her ex-husband Gary Triano in 1996 so now we're talking 10 years later holy [ __ ] although they'd
00:44:19
long considered Pam a suspect in Gary's murder investigators now felt confident that after 10 years of inactivity
00:44:26
they had found the people responsible for's death during a press conference after the search of Pam's home ATF
00:44:32
special agent Thomas Mangan told reporters it's fair to say that both individuals are suspects yes absolutely
00:44:38
think it's more than fair yeah the allegations the Snow White of fairis literally the fairest of the ball the
00:44:44
allegations were immediately of course refuted by Pam's attorney Doug Clark who told reporters that his client had
00:44:50
nothing to do with Gary's death sir okay sir mhm he explained quote there are at
00:44:57
least five different very dangerous people any of whom could have done it they all had the means the motive and
00:45:02
the opportunity to do it Gary had a shady past and many enemies I love that they just keep going back to that
00:45:08
they're like I know that the evidence points directly at Pam and she's essentially admitted it on a phone call
00:45:14
but there are so many other people who could have done it and it's like yeah there's a whole bunch of people in the
00:45:18
world that are capable of killing anybody yep but we have evidence that says that she did we have evidence that
00:45:24
says she has the means are enemy of Gary many all these restraining orders and everything like obviously they did
00:45:35
not have a good relationship like let's be real let's consider her an enemy for sure him an enemy of hers even but
00:45:41
investigators had long ago ruled out any of Gary's business associates and creditors like we know so no matter how
00:45:48
hard Pam's lawyer tried the content of the phone calls was simply too suspicious to expl you can't get past
00:45:53
that like good try good try throw it at the wall and see if it sticks but it didn't exactly so it took a while but in
00:45:59
October of 2008 warrants were issued for the arrest of Pam Phillips and Ronald Young charging both with first-degree
00:46:04
murder and conspiracy to commit first-degree murder young was arrested in California and extradited back to
00:46:10
Arizona but Pam Phillips was nowhere to be found where the [ __ ] did you go Pam
00:46:17
so much [ __ ] time has passed you might as well have given her a [ __ ] ticket uh despite having been monitored
00:46:23
by Colorado investigators and investigators that's what was the other produc producers producers and
00:46:31
investigators investigators so despite having been monitored by the investigators Pam fled
00:46:38
the US for London in September of 2008 she just left the [ __ ] country while she was being monitored I'm like did you
00:46:45
fall asleep at the wheel like the [ __ ] her lawyer claimed that she quote had gone to live near her daughter in
00:46:51
Switzerland B I wonder why also good for your daughter going to Switzerland I know hell yeah get out of here uh a
00:46:58
little more than a year would pass before Pam was finally arrested in Vienna Austria in December of 2009 and
00:47:05
eventually extradited back to the US wow Ronald Young went on trial in Puma County in late February 20110 now where
00:47:13
Puma County district attorney William McCollum argued that he had engaged in a romantic relationship with Pam Phillips
00:47:18
in 1996 and he was ultimately convinced to kill Gary Triano in exchange for $400,000 which was paid out from Gary's
00:47:26
life insurance policy wow he's just like here it is he's like boom and as evidence of conspiracy McCollum provided
00:47:33
receipts showing that the payments had actually began several months before the murder even occurred wow which laid the
00:47:39
ground for the conspiracy charge the ongoing payments and hours of recording phone recorded phone calls they argued
00:47:46
were also evidence of his guilt damn now arguing on Young's behalf uh defense attorney Walter paer claimed that the
00:47:53
district attorney was only guessing about what had happened and that's a quote he said the phone calls were
00:47:58
really too vague to prove anything oh yeah he said in truth young had learned the details of Gary's death from Pam and
00:48:05
desperate for money he used that information to extort her for years which I would like to sit here and tell
00:48:10
you is also a crime yeah that you're not making your client look good he's like it's no big deal he just tried to extort
00:48:17
someone it's just extortion that's all he's like we can talk about that later but like they have a name for that if
00:48:22
they have a name for it it's probably not good like dude he said if the jury wants to hypothesize they could just as
00:48:27
easily hypothesize that sometime around November 1st 1996 Phillips told her former lover she had arranged for
00:48:33
triano's death and he decided to blackmail her wow and as evidence of this he pointed to the recordings in
00:48:40
which young does make vague threats of Philips going to jail for what she did but never implicates himself in the
00:48:46
crime probably because he knows he's the [ __ ] person recording them yeah of course that's have you ever watched any
00:48:54
crime series ever of course they're not going to talk about themselves they're going to try to get you to say it not
00:48:59
them exactly yeah but the defense attorney during his closing arguments continued if they think the blackmailing
00:49:04
scheme and the murder scheme are equally plausible they have to equit Young they
00:49:09
don't they don't in his closing arguments uh district attorney William McCollum refuted the defense's argument
00:49:15
reminding the jury that quote the blackmail scenario doesn't make sense since Phillips began paying young five
00:49:21
months before the slaying yeah so there's that you want to explain that yeah and he also went on to point to the
00:49:26
large amount of evidence collected in Ronald Young's home that tied him to the murder saying he had quote never seen a
00:49:32
case in which so much evidence was created by the defendant he said everything you've seen or heard reeks of
00:49:38
two people who are so cold so greedy Nothing Else Matters damn the jury deliberated for 12 hours across two days
00:49:46
and on April 1st they returned their verdict finding Ronald Young guilty a first-degree murder and conspiracy to
00:49:52
commit first-degree murder on May 3rd 2010 Puma County Superior Court Judge Christopher Browning did sentence young
00:49:59
to life in prison without the possibility of parole saying he quote could not comprehend how somebody could
00:50:04
plot and carry out the murder of a virtual stranger for money damn and in such a [ __ ] horrific way horrific way
00:50:12
and clearly he was nearby and had pressed the button like he was like stalking Triano oh my God and so to be
00:50:19
able to watch somebody walk oh so chilly yeah now if Ronald Young's trial was relative simple and straightforward
00:50:27
Pamela Phillips case was again I say the exact opposite oh boy after being arrested in Vienna in December of 2009
00:50:35
it took eight more months before Pam was back in the US and in July of 2010 she was finally arraigned on charges of
00:50:42
first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit first-degree murder while she was awaiting trial though her defense team
00:50:48
requested that doctors perform a mental health evaluation claiming that she was incompetent to stand trial according to
00:50:56
these attorneys her attorneys Pam had been exper experiencing extreme paranoia since 2003 I [ __ ] wonder why yeah end
00:51:04
quote she has felt as though she is being watched and listened to and believes that she has had tracking
00:51:08
devices placed in her neck wow in March of 2011 Dr Brad Johnson testified at a pre-trial hearing
00:51:17
telling the district attorney he had examined Pamela Phillips and in his opinion she was mingering or faking
00:51:23
symptoms of mental illness according to him she was quote very dramatic inconsistent vague and focused when she
00:51:30
described her symptoms and people with actual mental illnesses usually are not yeah I mean there you go based on
00:51:37
his opinion the judge refused to allow any additional mental health examinations but in September of 2011
00:51:44
Puma County Judge Richard Fields reversed his early ruling prohibiting additional mental health exams and in
00:51:50
December of that year Pam was examined a second time by a new Mental Health prce
00:51:55
practitioner who determined she was indeed incompetent to stand trial but quote could be restored to
00:52:03
competency okay like why how though couldn't tell you but finally in October of 2012 Pam was determined competent to
00:52:11
stand trial but it would be another 16 months before she would finally go to trial I hate how long these things drag
00:52:18
out especially for the families involved just like let him get through it man Gary's family having to wait this long
00:52:24
for justice anyways and then it just gets like dragged and dragged and that's it's exactly what you said like having
00:52:30
over a decade happen before you even got to this point right and then this all gets drudged back up again which you're
00:52:36
happy I'm sure to a degree about you wrapped up EXA exactly but like I said Pamela finally did go on trial for the
00:52:44
murder of Gary Triano and this was in mid-February of 2014 where Pac County Prosecutors told the jury that she had
00:52:51
conspired with Ronald Young to kill her husband and the motive was simply green so cold and it's so gross it's so gross
00:52:59
like o prosecutor Nicole green said in her opening statements moments prior to that bombing the only person who stood
00:53:05
to get any benefit from Gary triano's death was Pamela Phillips yeah the prosecution argued that Pam had grown
00:53:11
accustomed to this lavish lifestyle that she had when she was married to Triano and although she no longer wanted to be
00:53:17
married to him she wasn't ready to give up that lifestyle in support of their case they offered the same evidence that
00:53:23
had been used to convict Ronald Young recordings and documents they believed showed that she was an active
00:53:28
participant in the murder in defense of his client Paul xtram flatly rejected the prosecution's argument and instead
00:53:35
suggested that although she had no love for her ex-husband Pam was in fact the victim according to Pam's defense who
00:53:42
were clearly taking a page from Ronald Young's defense extrm claimed that Ronald had learned the details of Gary's
00:53:48
death for years and had used that information to extort Pam so wow we're really going for this saying the same
00:53:55
thing okay he claimed quote what he had on Pam was the fact that she had a reputation in Aspen to protect it was a
00:54:02
small town she was a real estate agent she needed her reputation they argued Pam's lawyers
00:54:08
that if word got out about her being a suspect in Gary's death it could have ruined her professional career and done
00:54:13
considerable damage to her reputation and young was using that to his Advantage as far as who did commit the
00:54:20
murder extrm claimed Gary had been killed by Neil MCN an Arizona millionaire to whom Gary owed money well
00:54:26
we're just like pulling that guy out of nowhere it's also like is that not hearsay like you just pull that out ofu
00:54:31
just be like um that guy did it yeah that guy did the law confuses me cuz some like I think I say this at least
00:54:37
once every other case some things that are here say you're like what I know and then other things that don't get labeled
00:54:43
as that hears like to me that feels hearsay right now on April 3rd 2014 the jury retired for deliberations and
00:54:51
nearly a week later took them a little longer than the previous jury but they were turned their verdict finding Pam
00:54:58
guilty oh okay I was like please don't I know I was trying to throw you off uh they found her guilty a first-degree
00:55:03
murder and conspiracy to commit first-degree murder and on May 22nd nearly 4 years after her arrest and 18
00:55:11
years since Gary's murder the judge Richard field sentenced Pamela Phillips to life in prison without the
00:55:17
possibility for parole damn when the verdict was read in the courtroom she turned to the gallery and shouted I'm
00:55:23
innocent I'm innocent this is a nightmare I don't know man I don't understand those phone calls if you are innocent I
00:55:30
don't either and I don't understand the payments I don't understand any of it no
00:55:34
and again the motive you were the only one who stood to gain from it everyone else only lost out yeah Pam Phillips
00:55:41
appealed the verdict to the aror excuse me Arizona court of appeals in 2018 claiming among other things that she had
00:55:48
been improperly denied contact with her attorney denied her right to a properly presented defense and denied her right
00:55:54
to doe process all of which were incorrect the Arizona court of appeals disagreed with all of these claims and
00:55:59
upheld the verdict she currently is serving her sentence at the Arizona Department of Corrections in perville
00:56:06
Arizona and that is that damn such a sad case it is and and I was looking up um like just trying to see you know like if
00:56:17
the if the kids I know they're adults now like how they ended up they seem like they are from what I've read it
00:56:24
says that they remember their dad as like a larger than life personality who adored his children was generous with
00:56:31
his time and money um the one of them I don't want to say their names just in case they don't want to yeah I don't
00:56:37
blame you you know um but they remembered like he would literally like play jokes on people in restaurants
00:56:44
where he would send the bill his bill to someone else and then watch their reaction but then pay their bill and his
00:56:50
bill like just like as a practical joke that's the thing everything I read about
00:56:54
him just sounded like one he was a devoted father and two a pretty nice guy well and even Robin Gardner testified
00:57:02
and said that he was an active participant in their daughter's life and she was sure he would have been just as
00:57:08
attentive to her if he had been given the chance to grow up with her see cuz I think she was only like seven month old
00:57:16
it was like right before he was killed that she was born I think they were like this is this is like an older uh article
00:57:22
about it but I think they were like having trouble like with the money that was supposed to be awarded to them oh
00:57:27
they were supposed to get money and it wasn't going to come cuz it's from Pamela yeah of course that makes sense
00:57:32
it's like it's from what you can see everybody who I mean I trust his kids to tell me if he was a good dad that's
00:57:38
that's the end I'll be all on that one so and he had two older kids cuz remember he had two kids from his first
00:57:44
marriage so they knew him for a long long time exactly you so it seems like yeah and for Robin to say that like when
00:57:52
they did have some difficulties in their relationship yeah to say like he was very attentive and very a part of our
00:57:58
daughter's life our daughter's life and I know if he was around and was given the chance he would be as attentive to
00:58:03
her as he is with his older kids and all his friends said like no matter what kind of streets he was in he always had
00:58:08
a cell phone to call these kids it tore him apart that they were the like Pam and his children she took them so far
00:58:14
away like I do think that Justice was served here but unfortunately it was so late it was such delayed Justice and it
00:58:23
doesn't do anything for those kids to know doesn't bring him back so it's like oh what a sad sad story seriously crazy
00:58:32
truly but with that we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you extorted
00:58:40
anybody for money and not so weird that you don't just like get divorced like a normal person and move on with your life
00:58:44
you don't need to do any of this yeah you don't need to do that stop that bye [Music]
00:58:53
goodbye [Music]