00:00:00
Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. >> This is morbid. >> It's also kind of like an 800 call
00:00:22
service because I have a sexy voice. >> It's true. She does. >> It's like in and out though. Like I I
00:00:28
can I can force it to not be so >> Yeah. >> It's It's the allergies. >> It's the allergies. It's the asthma.
00:00:36
>> The asthma. >> Asthma. It's just It's a whole bunch of things, you know. >> Yeah. You know,
00:00:42
>> what are you going to do? >> It's the goddamn pollen. It's here to stay. I don't know when it's We've had
00:00:46
several rains, several intense rains, >> storms even. >> It rains every [ __ ] weekend.
00:00:54
>> It's raining all the time. And it's like, and then we wake up and it's just somehow more pollen on my porch
00:01:01
>> and now just puddles of pollen. Now the pollen has gathered. >> The pollen puddles gross me the [ __ ]
00:01:07
out. I'm also driving a pollen mobile. >> Yeah, >> if you have a black car, pollen mobile.
00:01:12
>> Yeah, there's no Don't get your car washed in New England right now. >> I recently did and I don't know why I
00:01:19
did. It was a waste of $22. I know. >> Like that's actually wild that you did that. I just hate like if when it builds
00:01:27
up to a certain point, I like can't handle it. >> I know it's true, but I'm just like it's
00:01:30
going to get this way tomorrow. >> I know, but then I'm like am I like breathing this in like having
00:01:34
>> probably >> like sitting in my pollen mobile? >> You're breathing it in everywhere.
00:01:38
>> It's coming into your house. >> Oh, I know. I need to get my um my air ducts cleaned out. This is 30.
00:01:45
>> There you go. >> Yeah, cuz I'm officially 30. So many people messaged me like really nice
00:01:49
things. So, thank you guys for the birthday wishes. >> The birthday wishes. I still haven't
00:01:54
quite celebrated. My 30th birthday was the most 30th birthday. It was so lowkey and so great.
00:02:00
>> They usually Yeah, they get chiller. >> It was Drew was like, "You don't want to
00:02:04
do anything?" I was like, "No, I want to order take out >> and I want to lay on the couch.
00:02:08
>> That's all I ever want to do for my birthday." >> Saw my grandparents >> and Elena.
00:02:12
>> Yep. >> That was great. That was enough for me. >> That's all I want. >> Yeah. Um but we are going out soon to
00:02:18
celebrate. >> Yeah, we'll celebrate for sure. We have a plan. >> Yeah, we're going to have a funeral.
00:02:22
It's true. >> For my 20s. >> Yeah, as you should. >> Let's kill them. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um, buy tickets to Radio City
00:02:28
Music Hall. There's not that many left. >> There isn't. So, go get them. >> Go get them. Go launder the streets of
00:02:33
New York afterwards. >> Yeah, it's fine. >> It's going to be great. >> Just kidding. Don't do that.
00:02:37
>> We got cool dresses. It's going to be a fun time. >> I know. Our dresses from Romania are
00:02:40
coming in soon. And I'm going to poop my pants when I see it. >> Truly not in the dress.
00:02:44
>> I know. What to do? Oh, I still need to figure out like our hair. >> I got to make some calls.
00:02:50
>> Going to make some calls. I got to do some admin. We're doing our own makeup.
00:02:53
>> Yeah, >> that's that. >> We had We had a mishap with makeup once that will forever scar us.
00:03:01
>> We That's all we can say. >> That's all we can say. But >> you're on a need to know basis.
00:03:05
>> Just know that we will be doing our own makeup for the rest of our lives. >> It's true.
00:03:11
>> Thank you. >> And without >> I think that's it. >> Yeah, that's all our business.
00:03:16
>> But pre-order the Butcher Legacy. Pre-order it. Get it. It's fun. She's also making really good Tik Tok. So, you
00:03:21
got to follow. She did another one today. It's not an evidence collection. She had a whole new idea.
00:03:26
>> Yeah. And I'm excited about it. So, >> Elena had a new idea. Mom would kill me
00:03:29
if I just said she. >> I know. It's true. >> Who's she the cat's mother? >> But go pre-order it. It's a lot of fun.
00:03:35
>> It's good. >> It's really fun. There's a lot going on in it. >> So close to finishing.
00:03:42
>> But >> that's it. >> I think that's all we have. >> Yeah. >> So, ding. Now it starts.
00:03:48
>> There you go. So, we're going to be talking about um the Otaf family killings and a killer prophet today. O
00:03:55
>> I feel like I don't even want to call this man a prophet. >> He probably just called himself that.
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>> I don't even know if he did. I think he just got kind of like dubbed that. >> Damn, that's even worse.
00:04:04
>> Yeah. Um this is a really awful story and one that I actually hadn't really heard that much about before. Dave
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suggested it and I was reading into it and I was like, "Oh my god." >> Yeah, I think I know this one.
00:04:16
>> I think you probably do. It was right. It was in California around the 70s, like very close to the Manson family
00:04:22
murders. Like literally, >> this happened while the Manson family was on trial. >> Oh, wow.
00:04:27
>> Yeah. So, a little past 8:00 p.m. on the evening of October 19th, 1970, firefighters got an emergency call about
00:04:35
an outofcrol fire at 999 Rodeo Gulch Road in SoCal, uh, California. It's a suburb of Santa Cruz County.
00:04:44
>> Okay. Now, this was a multi-million dollar mansion, and it was the home to 45-year-old Dr. Victor Ot, who was a
00:04:51
very popular local opthalmologist. He lived in that house with his wife, Virginia, as well as their two sons,
00:04:58
12-year-old Derek and 11-year-old Tagert. The couple also had two daughters, Lark and Tara, who were away
00:05:04
at boarding school, luckily, when the fire began. Now, the house sat on top of a really high hill with two long
00:05:11
driveways leading down to the main road. And when firefighters arrived to the scene, they found that the main driveway
00:05:17
was blocked by Mr. Ot's Rolls-Royce. It was parked across the driveway, like the
00:05:22
width. >> That's not usual. >> No. Now, there was a second car, which was a large Lincoln Continental, and
00:05:28
that was parked across the same way, the second uh driveway, like pull >> literally try to keep people from
00:05:33
getting there. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Luckily, firefighters were able to push one of the cars out of the way, and
00:05:38
they managed to get the truck up to the house, but once they got there, they ran
00:05:42
into another problem. The house was too far from any fire hydrants to connect the hose and start extinguishing.
00:05:49
>> I feel like that is that like I don't think that would be like up to code. >> I was going to say that's not okay.
00:05:55
>> No, I don't think so. I don't know. >> That is not all right at all. >> It was the ' 70s, so I don't know if
00:05:59
people really thought that much. >> So, they were like code >> about it. Yeah. I don't Maybe it wasn't
00:06:03
code. >> Yeah. So, thinking fast, one of the firefighters suggested that they could
00:06:06
siphon water from the swimming pool in the back of the house. >> Pretty good idea. That was smart.
00:06:11
>> I don't know if that would work if you had like a saltwater pool though. I was
00:06:14
thinking >> H cuz like >> still might. >> Still could. >> But also then like there's a lot of
00:06:19
chemicals in pools. So, it's just interesting to think about. >> Yeah. >> But they had to do something. The fire
00:06:25
wasn't uh it was serious, but it wasn't as large as they expected. So, the the pool would be a pretty uh sufficient
00:06:30
source of water. So they dragged the hose to the back of the house, but when they reached the pool, they made a
00:06:37
terrible discovery. Five bodies floating face down in the water. Fire Chief uh Ted Pound said, "I went to the pool to
00:06:44
see where the end of the pipe came through and my flashlight beamed sp my flashlight beam spotted one of the
00:06:50
kids." Oh. So Chief Pound called out for one of the detectives on the scene and was met at the back of the house by
00:06:56
Detective Terry Medina. Medina later said, "The first thing that I noticed was that the bodies are tied, but not
00:07:02
with rope. They're like silk scarves that are knotted together to tie the hands." To everybody's surprise, this
00:07:08
simple fire had just turned into a multi-murder scene. Damn. Now, they soon learned that the bodies were those of
00:07:15
Dr. Ot, his wife Virginia, the two youngest children, Derek and Tagert, and the fifth body was Dr. OTA's longtime
00:07:23
secretary, 38-year-old Dorothy uh Cadwaler. Based on the medical examiner's initial
00:07:30
observations, it seemed like Dr. Ot had been shot once in the chest and twice in
00:07:35
the back before he was pushed into the pool. And the other four victims had all been shot once in the back of the neck
00:07:41
and then were pushed into the pool. >> Oh god. >> All of the victims had their hands bound
00:07:46
with colorful silk scarves. And Dr. Ot was known to wear those scarves instead of a like a regular necktie.
00:07:53
>> Oh god. >> So those were all of his own personal scarves. >> That's spooky. And all five victims were
00:07:59
also blindfolded. Now, as far as the forensic investigators could tell, the victims
00:08:04
were each shot beside the pool, like I said, and then immediately pushed in. Now, to the frustration of
00:08:10
investigators, the crime scene really didn't have that many clues as to what happened at the house that night. All
00:08:16
five victims seem to have been shot at close range execution style and the killer or maybe multiple killers had set
00:08:23
several small fires throughout the house presumably to cover up the crime. >> Yeah.
00:08:28
>> Now, fortunately, the fires failed to catch or really spread as easily as they
00:08:32
probably hoped they would. So, there was minimal fire damage, but there was still
00:08:36
not that much to be found inside. From what investigators could tell, nothing looked to be missing. So, they were able
00:08:42
to rule out robbery as a motive. But even more concerning was the lack of evidence of any kind of struggle.
00:08:48
>> This is a family of five. You would expect there to be some kind of struggle.
00:08:52
>> It seemed very unlikely to investigators that a single intruder could overtake
00:08:56
and completely control five people, three of which were grown adults. >> Yeah. >> And they had to face the terrifying
00:09:03
possibility at that point that they were dealing with what one detective described as another Manson case.
00:09:10
>> Ooh. Cuz that had what just happened. Literally, like I said, the Manson family was on trial.
00:09:15
>> Yeah, that was probably one of the first things I thought of. >> It was It cannot be understated how
00:09:19
significant the fear of another Manson style murder was at the time of these murders. It was a little more than a
00:09:25
year earlier when Charles Manson and his followers broke into the Hollywood home
00:09:29
of director Roman Palansky and his wife Sharon Tate while Palansky was away in Europe. As we know, they killed five
00:09:36
people staying in the house, including Sharon Tate, who was 8 and 1/2 months pregnant. And then the very next day
00:09:43
they murdered Lo and Rosemary Labianca. Now the murders had always been symbolic
00:09:48
of a larger shift in fear toward uncertainty, but they were just the first of a lot of horrific acts that
00:09:54
would go on to reshape California throughout that period. At the time, residents of the San Francisco Bay area
00:10:01
were being terrorized by the Zodiac Killer like as all of this was going on. And there were a slew of other violent
00:10:08
criminals who kept Californians in constant fear of being killed. >> Yeah. >> Like California in the 70s, it cannot be
00:10:15
stated enough how insane it was. >> Cuz then just a couple years later, you would have uh Ed Keer.
00:10:22
>> Yep. >> There like there's so many more. >> Oh, yeah. The some of the scariest ones.
00:10:25
Mhm. So, just one morning after the OTA murders, 19-year-old Tom Deeco was found
00:10:31
dead inside the gas station where he worked and his body was stuffed into an al cove just off the main garage. The
00:10:38
station was in Saratoga, which was just 30 m from where the Otah family lived. Like the Ots, Deco had been shot in the
00:10:44
back of the head execution style, and his wrists were also bound, this time with electrician's tape.
00:10:50
>> Jeez. According to the medical examiner, his murder occurred roughly 2 hours after the OTA murders, and that brought
00:10:57
to everybody's mind the murders of the Labiancas. >> Investigators declined to comment on
00:11:02
whether the crimes were related, but they couldn't help think of the Manson murder spree and wonder if this was some
00:11:08
kind of copycat crime. >> Yeah, I mean, I would think that, right? >> A whole family and then the kid, you
00:11:13
know. >> Mhm. So, the fear of a new murderous cult only grew deeper when investigators
00:11:18
started combing over the crime scene at the Otah home and they reached the cars at the bottom of the driveway. It was
00:11:25
clear obviously, like we said, that the killer rearranged the cars on purpose to
00:11:29
prevent the firefighters from reaching the house and the police, too. >> The killer so [ __ ] up and so like
00:11:36
thinking that's so premeditated. >> It is. Absolutely. I'm so glad that you said that. The killer actually even went
00:11:41
as far as to break the key of do Dr. Ot's car off in the ignition >> so that they could move it. That's why
00:11:49
they one of them. >> But more disturbing was the typewritten note that they found tucked under the
00:11:54
windshield. >> It read, "Hello, 1970. Today, World War II will begin as brought to you by the
00:12:01
people of the free universe. From this day forward, anyone andor everyone or company of persons who misuses the
00:12:08
natural environment or destroys same will suffer the penalty of death by the people of the free universe. I and my
00:12:16
comrades from this day forth will fight until death or freedom against anyone who does not support natural life on
00:12:22
this planet. Materialism must die or mankind will stop. And then it was signed Knight of Wands, Knight of Cups,
00:12:30
Knight of Pentacles, Knight of Swords. All of those knights were spelled correctly like KN other than the
00:12:36
pentacles. That one was spelled like nighttime. >> Like night. Okay. >> Which is just weird.
00:12:41
>> Now, detectives saw similarities between the note and the apocalyptic ranting of
00:12:46
from the Manson family. Like similar kind of vibes there, >> but the signatures at the bottom of the
00:12:51
note were entirely new and entirely unfamiliar to investigators. >> They not everybody was very familiar
00:12:57
with tarot back then. >> Yeah. So, the reference to four possibly oult sounding names only reinforced the
00:13:03
concern that they were dealing with a new murderous cult, a copycat, if that. Now, elsewhere in the house, more
00:13:11
evidence suggested that the OTA murders were not an impulsive act. >> In addition to the killer or killers
00:13:18
having taken the time to block the driveway, investigators quickly discovered that the killer had also cut
00:13:23
the phone lines, which is the scariest thing to me. >> Yeah. Um, and they also discovered a box
00:13:29
of 22 caliber shells, which indicated that they had the forethought to bring additional ammunition.
00:13:35
>> [ __ ] >> But the killer had collected all the spent cartridges at the scene and left
00:13:40
little evidence of having been there at all. >> Wow. >> Now, when considered together, the
00:13:43
evidence suggested that these murders were definitely planned in advance, and the presence of the note suggested that
00:13:49
whoever was responsible seemed intent on killing again. >> Yeah. So, despite the presence of
00:13:55
several high-profile cases in San Francisco and Los Angeles in the summer and the fall of 1970, violent crime was
00:14:02
really something that didn't happen in the quiet suburban area of Santa Cruz. >> Mhm.
00:14:07
>> In fact, the Ot murder was the first murder in the county's history. >> Wow. >> Crazy.
00:14:15
>> We've we've done a that was like the Martha Moxley case. >> Yeah. It was like one of the first.
00:14:19
>> This was legit the first. Wow. Under the circumstances, suspicion quickly settled
00:14:24
on the relatively small hippie community in and around Santa Cruz and especially
00:14:29
I think because of the Manson. >> I was going to say the Manson didn't help hippies up.
00:14:32
>> No, they did not. One neighbor told a reporter, "It looks like another Manson
00:14:36
thing to me." And another commented, "Looks like drugs." Which like it doesn't really look like drugs because
00:14:43
there was a lot of careful polit. >> No, not at all. >> Like that. That is a very planned out
00:14:50
almost professional crime scene. >> I don't know if they said looks like drugs because of like the execution
00:14:56
style killings. >> Yeah. >> Who knows? >> Or they're just thinking of hippies. So
00:15:00
they're like drugs. >> Exactly. Now in reality, detectives had no idea what the motive could have been.
00:15:06
If it had been drugs, then they reason that the killer would have at least taken some of the jewelry or the other
00:15:11
valuables that were in plain sight around the house. I mean, this is a mansion. Like there's valuables
00:15:16
everywhere. >> Yeah. I was shocked by that. Yeah, and if it were a Manson copycat, they
00:15:20
expected some sign of the occult left behind. But aside from the cryptic, mysterious note, there was not that much
00:15:26
to indicate a motive. In fact, other than the note, the only thing detectives knew for sure was that the killer or
00:15:32
killers had stolen Virginia Ot's green Oldsmobile station wagon. District Attorney Peter Chang told reporters,
00:15:39
"This was the most tragic murder scene I've witnessed in 9 years. We will need all the outside help we can get." Now,
00:15:45
in the absence of any forensic evidence pointing to a motive or a suspect, detectives started looking into the
00:15:50
background of the victims. Family friend Douglas Liticote said, "The life of Dr.
00:15:55
Victor Ot reads like a classic American dream." >> Yeah. >> He was born in Montana to Japanese
00:16:00
immigrant parents who worked really hard to build a life for their family only to
00:16:05
have everything ripped away from them when they were placed in an internment camp in 1941.
00:16:10
>> [ __ ] >> Despite everything he faced, Victor was a great student. He worked all these odd
00:16:15
jobs to support not only himself through college, but also his parents. He always
00:16:20
sent money to his parents. >> After graduating with an undergrad degree, he enlisted in the army in 1943
00:16:27
and served two years before returning home and enrolling at Northwestern University where he studied
00:16:32
opthalmology. At night, he drove a cab in order to support himself and his parents.
00:16:37
>> Damn. >> Because by that point, they were too old and too weak to work anymore. After
00:16:42
graduating in 1950, he met and married Virginia, and before long, she was pregnant with their first son. Uncertain
00:16:48
about their financial situation, Victor decided actually to reinlist in the army, and he served several years as a
00:16:54
flight surgeon. >> Wo, which is crazy. >> That must be wild. >> Next level. >> Yeah.
00:17:00
>> And then eventually he returned to Northwestern to continue his studies and he was just determined to become the top
00:17:07
specialist in his field. Hell yeah. >> Which he really did become one of them. Now, it was during this time that
00:17:12
tragedy struck and the couple lost their son Kevin to uh pneumonia when he was only 2 years old.
00:17:19
>> Their daughter said, >> their first son at 2 years old. Like >> 2 years old, >> that's horrific.
00:17:25
>> Their daughter Lark said, "I know it was traumatic. It was another two years before they even considered having more
00:17:30
children." So the emotional toll of the loss and the add added expenses of a funeral pushed Victor back into the army
00:17:38
where he managed to finish his studies while also making a livable wage and that finally made it possible for them
00:17:43
to consider having more children. >> Now over the course of the next decade, Dr. Victor Ot built one of the most
00:17:50
successful medical practices in Santa Cruz County. >> Hell yeah. >> And at the same time served as a
00:17:56
founding member on the board of the Dominican Hospital. >> Wow. like doing the damn thing.
00:18:01
>> Yeah. >> Not long after establishing his own private practice, he hired Dorothy
00:18:05
Codwalader as his uh secretary. She became an indispensable asset to the family. And in no time, she really just
00:18:13
became part of their family. >> She joined them for holidays, birthdays, vacations, and actually unfortunately
00:18:20
they did have quite the bond because Dorothy and her husband had also lost a child at a young age.
00:18:26
>> Their child was struck and killed by a mail truck. Holy [ __ ] Yeah. Now, as far
00:18:32
as anybody knew, Dr. Ot and the family had no enemies to speak of, and nobody could imagine who might want them dead.
00:18:40
Like him specifically, much less his entire family. You also wonder with like stories like that, you're like, why do
00:18:47
some people >> just have the worst luck? >> All the [ __ ] >> It's so true. >> And a lot of times it's like the nicest
00:18:53
nicest people, >> best kind of people. >> Mhm. Like that never makes sense to me.
00:18:58
>> No, I feel like we know so many families like that. >> Yeah, cuz like her like Dorothy and her
00:19:04
>> husband >> husband lost a child in such a horrific way and now he loses her this way.
00:19:10
>> Mhm. >> Like why why do they have to deal with all that? And then the Otas like it's I
00:19:15
just don't whenever you hear about that you're like Jesus. >> And Dorothy and her husband much like
00:19:19
the Otas went on to have more children. So her children and her husband lost her. It's awful.
00:19:25
>> You just don't get it. I don't either. Dr. Louise Wowman, a friend said, "Never
00:19:29
once did I hear him speak an angry word to any anybody." Dr. Ot was always friendly, always generous to give to
00:19:35
charitable organizations. >> Oh, that breaks my heart. >> Yeah. Lark, his daughter, echoed the
00:19:40
sentiments of friends and neighbors and colleagues. Literally, everybody in this
00:19:44
community loved this family. Lark said, "My dad was a magnanimous man. He was generous and outgoing and friendly. He
00:19:51
was just a good man. He was loved in that community." Oh, I also love that name, Lark.
00:19:56
>> I do, too. I think it's such a good name. >> Now, the same was true for the other
00:19:59
victims. Like her husband, Virginia grew up in an immigrant family, and she worked alongside her husband to make
00:20:05
sure that their kids had opportunities that her and her husband never could have dreamed of.
00:20:10
>> Mhm. >> Lark said of her mother, "She was the strongest and most determined person
00:20:13
that I knew, and I miss her deeply." Victor may have been the face of several charities at the hospital, but Virginia
00:20:20
was very much working behind the scenes to ensure that everything ran smoothly. More than just a doctor's simple,
00:20:27
stylish wife, she was an active, integral member of this community. And she was a dedicated mother, she was so
00:20:34
committed to raising those kids to not only have the best opportunities, but with an awareness of both sides of their
00:20:40
heritage. While Dorothy Call Waller might not have been as outgoing as Dr. Otan in Virginia. She left an impression
00:20:48
on the lives that she touched. Her daughter Melinda said, "My mom was very elegant. She was very 60s makeup, false
00:20:55
lashes, and hairstyles." >> Dorothy spent her entire professional life working in healthcare. And for the
00:21:01
previous 8 years, she worked in Dr. Ot's private practice. She managed nearly every aspect of that business. She
00:21:08
always jumped in to help with the OTA children when the parents were too busy. And all the children loved and respected
00:21:14
her. Like this was very much a like >> a family. >> Yeah. Like a blended family.
00:21:19
>> Yeah. >> Now, when Victor and Virginia had to go out of town or to a conference or a
00:21:23
charity event, Dorothy and her husband would welcome all of the Otah kids into their home and just treated them like
00:21:29
they were their own children. >> Damn. >> Lark said Dorothy was perfect, like a 60s TV mom, except that she worked. She
00:21:36
was beautiful inside and out. Nearly everything investigators had learned about the Otto family and about Dorothy
00:21:43
indicated that these were all well-liked, deeply appreciated people in their community.
00:21:48
>> It's like great people. >> They were the last people anybody would expect to be the victims of violent
00:21:53
crime. The only involvement with the law that Dr. Ot had in his past was in 1967
00:21:58
when a group of thieves actually broke into his office and they stole a cocaine solution that he that he used in his
00:22:04
surgical procedures. >> Jeez. So, it wasn't even him. >> No. Otherwise, there appear appeared to
00:22:09
be nothing in the background of any of the victims that pointed toward their killer. So, in the absence of any new
00:22:14
evidence, any new leads, anything, detectives turned their attention back to their original theory that the
00:22:20
victims had been killed by either a cult or a Manson family copycat. Santa Cruz County and SoCal in particular had
00:22:28
always been a quiet area. In the summer, the area was popular with tourists. They
00:22:33
like to visit the beaches. But otherwise, it was mostly populated by wealthy retirees.
00:22:39
>> Okay. >> So, by the mid60s though, the University of California opened a campus in Santa
00:22:45
Cruz and that brought a younger crowd to the area. And by the end of the 60s, many among that crowd embraced the
00:22:51
hippie lifestyle. It was very much of the time, but also very much to the disappointment of locals.
00:22:57
>> Oh, I'm sure. In reality, the small but noticeable hippie community in the area,
00:23:01
they were mostly peaceful. They actually really didn't engage with many protests
00:23:05
or >> they were just vibing. >> Yeah. Like all across the country, there were like like activism, different
00:23:10
things like that going on. But here, these hippies just kind of hung out around this uh cafe and coffee shop
00:23:16
called the Catalyst. >> They hosted folk music and poetry readings regularly. Like just a very
00:23:22
chill. I just that just made me think of something completely unrelated to this,
00:23:26
but I feel like you need to know it right now. >> I do. >> Uh I just thought of the name the
00:23:30
catalyst as like I'm like, "Wow, what a name for a cafe." Did you know that 98 Degrees almost named themselves
00:23:37
Spontaneous Combustion? >> I actually did and I saw you post about that. >> If you didn't see that post, I just
00:23:42
needed everybody to know that. >> I feel like Spontaneous Combustion. It would make them a completely different
00:23:47
band. >> Yeah. >> Like a completely different band. And one of them also wanted to be called
00:23:52
Inertia. >> Oh, Inertia could have been cool. >> I It's been sitting within me, so I just
00:23:58
had to put it out there when I heard the catalyst. >> I feel like they didn't quite know what
00:24:02
vibe they were going for cuz those are three completely different like genres to me.
00:24:06
>> That's the thing. It sounds like they knew the vibe they wanted to go for. They just could not.
00:24:10
>> But then they went >> they went with the right band. >> They went with the right name for the
00:24:14
for the vibe. >> Spontaneous combustion will live in my soul. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I feel like the catalyst is also a
00:24:21
bomb name for a coffee shop. >> It's a really cool name for a coffee shop. That's why it made me think of it
00:24:26
>> like anything. >> Yeah, even a band name. Catalyst. I think the catalyst is a band
00:24:30
>> probably. >> Well, here it's a coffee shop and they, you know, they had like little hippie
00:24:35
gatherings all the time. >> Yeah, hippie gatherings. You know, I want to go to one. Even though things
00:24:39
were pretty chill with this group and they kept to themselves, after the OTA murders, the local police were very
00:24:45
worried that there would be tension between the hippies and the older residents in Santa Cruz.
00:24:49
>> I thought you meant just tension between the hippies. >> No, never tension between the hippies.
00:24:53
It's always outsiders. >> Always. >> I'm just picturing like hippies fighting. >> Yeah. Just like tension.
00:24:58
>> Weird. >> Yeah. >> Now, at the time, the contents of the note found on Dr. Ot's windshield had
00:25:03
not yet been made public. And it was truly only because of the Manson murders that the locals even suspected somebody
00:25:09
from the catalyst community was responsible for the murders. Dr. Terry Medina said, "There was already fear.
00:25:16
People were already buying guns. We didn't want retaliation against hippies or vigilantism, so we decided not to
00:25:22
release the contents of this note." Which I think was a good idea. >> Probably smart
00:25:25
>> because unfortunately, whether they wanted it or not, retaliation was inevitable. As soon as the news about
00:25:31
the murders made the papers, the catalyst started getting all kinds of harassing phone calls and even a few
00:25:37
bomb threats. Wow. Which like you guys don't know anything about this murder. That's it's
00:25:45
it's wild to know that even then before the internet >> people going to people >> people were still peepling in a way of
00:25:51
being like I know the whole story >> even though I know nothing about the story.
00:25:56
I way be way worse now, but I feel like it's there. It is cuz people have always
00:26:02
been doing that thing where they're like, "Well, I heard this much of the story.
00:26:05
>> So now I know the whole story and I'm going to act based on that tiny little grain of sand that I know."
00:26:11
>> Yep. >> We all have to stop doing that. >> Can we stop that? >> Can we all agree collectively to stop
00:26:17
doing that? >> I'm down. >> Until you know a whole story inside and out, don't act.
00:26:23
>> And here's the thing. When these things are initially reported on, you know nothing.
00:26:27
>> Yeah. >> You know the tip of the tip of the >> iceber. Yeah. Just a little boop. They
00:26:33
they know what you want them or what they want you to know. >> Ex. That's the thing.
00:26:36
>> Now, given the way that they'd been treated in the community and now facing harassment, the staff and the patrons at
00:26:42
the Catalyst had every reason not to trust the police, trust the locals, or really talk to anybody. But when
00:26:48
investigators canvased the restaurant, they found a group of people who were actually very eager to help.
00:26:54
>> Yeah. No one at the Catalyst really knew anything about the murders or the Ot
00:26:58
family, but when detectives brought up the contents of the note to these people, they learned from one of the
00:27:03
patrons that the four signatures at the end of the note were not signatures. They were suits from the tarot.
00:27:08
>> Yes. Now, back at the police station, Detective Medina and the other investigators laid out the Knight of
00:27:13
Wands, the Knight of Cups, the Knight of Pentacles, and the Knight of Swords on the desk in various configurations,
00:27:19
hoping that the cards might tell themselves about the contents of the note or the murders.
00:27:24
>> Medina said, "We really didn't come up with very much, but it was still very cultish."
00:27:29
>> Very cultish. >> Cultish, but very cultish. >> So 70s to have that take. >> Just like pretty cultish. almost like,
00:27:36
"Do you want to bring in one of the hippies who knows tarot who can maybe tell you something?"
00:27:40
>> Yeah, that's the thing. Get some experts. >> Exactly. Now, on the second day of the
00:27:44
investigation, just as they were settling into their theory of a newly formed cult, investigators got a call
00:27:50
that would undermine that theory altogether. The call was from a gas station attendant on the outskirts of
00:27:56
Soal, uh, who had been working on the night of the murders. According to the caller, he'd been sitting outside the
00:28:01
gas station when a young man in a green station wagon >> pulled up looking for gas. At the time,
00:28:08
that specific station had run out of gas. So, the attendant directed the driver to another station about a mile
00:28:14
down the road. He couldn't remember the exact time, but he said it was probably a little before 8:00 p.m., which was not
00:28:20
long after the Otas were killed. According to the attendant, the car matched the description of Virginia
00:28:25
Oda's Oldmobile, and there was only one person in the car. And while the attendant never saw the man's face in
00:28:31
the light, he did say that the driver had a fairly distinct voice, and he was certain that he would recognize it if he
00:28:37
heard it again. Now, that was just the first of many calls that investigators got that day. Most reporting leads that
00:28:44
really went nowhere. But among the dud calls, there was someone from the Southern Pacific Railroad with valuable
00:28:50
information. The caller reported that one of their trains had collided with a green old mobile wagon
00:28:56
>> in a tunnel not too far from the gas station where it had been spotted on the
00:29:00
night of the murder. >> So, sheriff's deputies rushed out to the scene hoping that they would find the
00:29:04
killer or the killers. But by the time they reached the train tunnel where the car was discovered, the driver was
00:29:10
nowhere to be found. Fortunately, neither the train nor the car suffered much damage in the collision. The only
00:29:16
damage from the fire was to the upholstery inside the car. But any hope of finding useful evidence was quickly
00:29:22
dashed. >> It had rained that morning, >> of course, >> and it had transformed the area of the
00:29:27
tunnel into like kind of a mud pit. >> God damn. >> And it washed away any phys physical
00:29:31
evidence that might have been left on the exterior of the vehicle. But there were several footprints left in the mud
00:29:37
around the car. >> And while it was difficult to be 100% certain, it did seem that these
00:29:43
footprints all belong to the same person. >> Okay. So since the bodies were discovered, the police and the press had
00:29:49
been operating on the assumption that there was more than one killer. >> Yeah. >> But now investigators with all this new
00:29:55
information were starting to wonder if they had it wrong. The footprints found outside the car and the statement from
00:30:00
the gas station attendant seem to suggest that these five murders actually could have been committed by one single
00:30:07
killer. >> That's horrific. >> And just to think about >> they have to think about how that
00:30:11
possibly could have happened. >> Yeah. Now you have to go back and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute.
00:30:15
So frustrated with the lack of evidence and leads, detectives went back to question family and friends of the Otas
00:30:20
in order to try to establish some kind of timeline uh which like would have accounted for the day of the murders.
00:30:27
>> Yeah. >> So they learned that on the day of the murders, Dorothy had picked up one of
00:30:31
the boys from school and drove him home because his mom was going to be late. >> So stick that in your back pocket.
00:30:39
>> Yeah. Already this is adding up. >> Changing the routine a little bit. Now, from the beginning of the investigation,
00:30:46
the assumption had been that the Otah family had all been home at the same time >> exactly when they were attacked,
00:30:51
>> which would make that insane, >> right? But if Dorothy had picked up one of the children and Virginia planned to
00:30:57
be home later, that strongly suggested that the family members could have arrived home one or two at a time. And
00:31:04
if that was the case, an armed gunman easily could have overtaken them as they entered the house 2 by two,
00:31:10
>> especially if he had been lying in weight as they suspected, which is so [ __ ] terrifying.
00:31:15
>> Horrible. >> Now, the new theory did seem to match the evidence, but it did little to point
00:31:20
them in the direction of somebody. >> Out of options and running the risk of this case going cold, investigators did
00:31:26
make the decision to release the one piece of information that they had been holding back. That note, that note on
00:31:32
the car. They hoped that somebody might recognize the language in the note. >> And on the day that it was published in
00:31:37
the paper, Roger Cone, the owner of the catalyst, >> and several others at the cafe were
00:31:43
reading that paper and recognized the content as being very similar to the ranting of a young man who'd been coming
00:31:49
into the cafe recently. >> Isn't that interesting that it's the catalyst people?
00:31:54
>> Mhm. That are like, "Wait a second." >> They're like, "Wait a minute, we can help."
00:31:57
>> And that it's like a newcomer to the catalyst, not like the typical crew. So,
00:32:01
Roger Cronin spent a lot of the afternoon agonizing over whether he should turn in one of his own customers
00:32:07
and his own community members to the police, but in the end, he reasoned that if it was the same man, there was a very
00:32:13
good chance he could kill again. So, in the early uh hours of October, just just
00:32:18
quick, he was not sure if he should >> he was stressed out about it. Like this, I'm just being clear.
00:32:26
>> Yeah. >> With myself. >> Yeah. So, there's a possibility that this person murdered an entire family,
00:32:33
including children. >> Yeah. >> And that was like something you were wrestling with.
00:32:38
>> Roger Roger was nervous to turn on his own community. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I mean,
00:32:43
>> but he he eventually realized he couldn't not do that. >> Cuz you literally can't not do that.
00:32:49
>> You can't not do that. >> I'm glad you realized that. >> And he said he was like, "If this is the
00:32:53
same guy, he could kill again." And like, I got to tell somebody. >> And he's already murdered kids, so he
00:32:56
did. And that goes to show you that you can, you know, you shouldn't, but you can sit
00:33:01
there and question things for a minute and then ultimately come to the right decision.
00:33:05
>> Yeah. There you go. You can mull things over for about a minute and a half and
00:33:08
then you can >> move on with the right thing. I'm glad he made the right decision. He did in
00:33:13
the end. >> There's always that that >> just had to be for you >> clear that I was like what? So, in the
00:33:19
early mornings of October 22nd, he met privately at the catalyst with District Attorney Peter Chang. And he told him
00:33:25
the note found at the scene sounded a lot like the apocalyptic rhetoric of a man named John Lindley Frasier. He'd
00:33:33
been coming into the cafe in recent weeks. And according to Cone, Frasier generally seemed like he was suffering
00:33:39
from some kind of mental illness. He came into the cafe regularly ranting about capitalism, the rich destroying
00:33:45
the earth, and he seemed very preoccupied with World War II. All of that sounds very familiar.
00:33:52
>> All of that was in the notes. >> Very. And you know what? I can I can at least take a step back now and say,
00:33:56
"Okay, so he wasn't positive that this guy is the person like he's not sitting there being like, I know he did it."
00:34:02
>> That's the thing. He was like, I think that sounds like >> it is difficult to take that first step
00:34:07
and accuse >> cuz you want to be like >> hopefully that guy coming into my bar or
00:34:12
my my cafe didn't murder >> family annihilator like Yeah. >> Exactly. >> So, so I'll step back look at it from a
00:34:18
different angle. >> So, see you you're always capable of that, too. >> Yeah, I thought about it.
00:34:23
>> Growth. >> So, Roger provided a general description of Frraasier, but he didn't really know
00:34:28
that much about him. He didn't know where police might find him. In fact, given the increased bomb threats that
00:34:33
the uh cafe had been receiving and the fear of violence that his customers were feeling, John wanted to make sure that
00:34:39
Chang and all the other investigators understood that despite his appearance, John Frasier was not a member of the
00:34:45
hippie community and he did not represent their values. He was like, "Please understand that. Don't conflate
00:34:50
us." The DA indicated that he understood and that he would do his best to relay the message, but first he needed to find
00:34:57
and stop John Lley Frasier. So, who the [ __ ] is John Lley Frasier? >> Truly, who the [ __ ] is he?
00:35:05
>> This is a doozy of a background. >> Oh boy. >> John Lley Frasier was born January 26,
00:35:11
1946 in New Mexico to Pat and William Frasier. He was an Aquarius. The family was very far from wealthy, but they were
00:35:19
well known in the area because they had a rabbit farm. And Pat, the mother, was an outspoken advocate of rabbit farming
00:35:25
and animal welfare, both activities that she would later enlist the help of her son with. In 1970, she told a reporter,
00:35:32
"Jon was always kind to animals. He couldn't stand abuse of life." Wow. Now, according to Pat, the first year or two
00:35:40
of John's life were pretty ordinary. The family was generally happy. But in mid1
00:35:44
1947, they moved to Ohio to be closer to her husband's family. And that was when
00:35:49
Pat started to notice that William, her husband, his personality was changing and he was just behaving in odd ways.
00:35:56
She said he'd go out all night, forget where he lived, and get involved with other women.
00:36:00
>> Oh, it's unclear whether his behavior was the result of a mental illness or if
00:36:05
he was just unhappy. But either way, the sudden change in his personality took obviously a serious toll on his
00:36:11
relationship with his wife and his son. >> Pat tried to convince her husband that
00:36:15
moving back to his hometown maybe was a mistake and suggested that they move and
00:36:19
start over on their own, but he was not interested. So Pat said, "I left and I thought he might come to his senses, but
00:36:25
he didn't. So I started off on my own." Wow. Now a single mother with no income,
00:36:30
she moved to Hayward, California to live with her own family and she found a job
00:36:35
working at a local hospital. At first, the new situation was really tough for John. His mom had to rely on her family
00:36:41
to watch him while she was working 12-hour overnight shifts and everything was made significantly worse in the
00:36:47
months that followed when Jon's health appeared to be declining. Oh. One night while Pat was working at the hospital,
00:36:54
her aunt brought Jon in and he had a high fever and acute stomach pain. At first, the attending doctor diagnosed
00:37:00
him with pneumonia, but the situation took a very dramatic turn just a few hours later when his appendix ruptured.
00:37:07
>> Oh [ __ ] >> Yeah. From there, things only got worse. After the surgery to remove his
00:37:12
appendix, he was kept at the hospital a few for a few days and he was inadvertently exposed to measles.
00:37:19
>> Oh my. So that added another two months onto his hospital stay. >> O yeah. Now his measles were followed by
00:37:27
other upper respiratory illnesses. >> Yeah. Measles sucks. >> Upper respiratory illnesses.
00:37:32
>> Yeah. That's why they have vaccines for measles too. >> And that's why they are proponents of
00:37:36
vaccine. >> Hell yeah. Now eventually uh doctors removed his addenoids and they also
00:37:42
removed his tonsils and he started to improve but then inevitably declined again when he was afflicted with just
00:37:48
what seemed to be severe colds that went on and off for months. Oh, that sucks. Now believing that the move and the
00:37:54
living arrangements were contributing to her son's poor health, Pat quit her job
00:37:57
and she moved to the San Francisco area. She enrolled in dental school and found
00:38:01
new doctors for her son. And it took some time before they were able to properly diagnose him, but eventually it
00:38:08
was discovered that he had contracted tuberculosis. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. Now, this was all further
00:38:14
complicated by injuries that he sustained in an auto accident in 1952. >> What is going on?
00:38:20
>> Everything. In that accident, he broke his collar bone and also got a concussion.
00:38:26
>> What? He was blind for several weeks after that accident. This is so much trauma
00:38:33
>> at This kid isn't even in first grade yet. >> This is an incredible amount of trauma.
00:38:37
>> This kid isn't even in first grade yet. >> That's >> He's got a burst appendix, measles,
00:38:44
tuberculosis, adoise removed, tonsils removed, >> broken collarbone. >> Broken collarbone.
00:38:49
>> Went blind. >> Went blind, and a concussion. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. Now, once he had been properly
00:38:57
diagnosed, his physical health improved dramatically. But there were several unusual behaviors that persisted
00:39:03
regardless of the doctor's attempts to try to curb them. John frequently wet the bed and it ultimately seemed to stop
00:39:10
when he got married. >> Oh wow. >> He was like a very long >> Yeah. bed wetter. Um he was also a
00:39:17
chronic sleep walker who struggled with other sleep disturbances for years. >> Oh man. Now, after he was quote unquote
00:39:23
stabilized, Pat realized that she wasn't going to be able to go to school full-time, work in the evenings, and
00:39:30
take care of her son. So, she ended up placing him in foster care, where he lived for 2 years.
00:39:36
>> By the time that he did reach first grade, she was able to regain custody, but from that point forward, he
00:39:42
struggled with a lot of behavioral problems. The amount of trauma >> Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:49
>> That happened to this child before first grade. >> Yeah. >> Is unthinkable. >> It really is. It's also a wild concept
00:39:56
to me that like you could just drop your kid off in foster care and then go >> a couple years later and just be like,
00:40:01
"Okay." >> Yeah. Nuts. >> It's a lot. So, his first brush with the law came when he was 10 years old.
00:40:08
>> Wow. >> And got caught shoplifting a pen knife from a store in San Francisco. Police
00:40:13
were called and he was given a citation and had to appear in juvenile court. Eventually, the charges were dropped,
00:40:19
but his attitude and his behavior only continued to get worse. His eighth grade teacher said he was kind of a tough kid.
00:40:25
His attitude was poor at times. He didn't seem like a happy kid. >> Yeah. >> Like, I don't know that I'd be a happy
00:40:31
kid either. >> Two years later, after his mom moved to Santa Cruz, John was arrested again when
00:40:36
he his friends uh vandalized a tile factory in town. >> The parents of all of the boys made them
00:40:41
clean up the factory and repair the damages. So the company agreed that they wouldn't press charges, but it didn't do
00:40:47
much to stop his defiant behavior. >> By the time he reached high school, he was almost entirely uneducated and going
00:40:53
to school. >> He went to a vocational school, but within a few months, he started skipping
00:40:58
classes and soon he was just skipping school days altogether. Teachers and counselors tried to keep him engaged,
00:41:04
but he continued to miss long stretches and eventually just dropped out entirely. Pat said that was when he
00:41:11
started to get in trouble. >> No, >> I feel like he started getting drunk, babe.
00:41:16
>> Yeah, that's not it. That objectively that's not when he started getting in trouble.
00:41:21
>> He got arrested at 10 years old, babe. >> Yeah. >> So, a series of more petty crimes led to
00:41:26
a period of incarceration in a juvenile detention center, which was then followed by juvenile parole, which he
00:41:32
violated almost immediately. >> Oh, man. He's just on a path clearly. Outside of the justice system, he also
00:41:38
continued to demonstrate antisocial behavior. Um, trigger warning for animal abuse here.
00:41:44
>> I thought he was nice to animals. >> Yeah, his mom thought so, too. But there
00:41:47
was one instance where he dowsed a neighborhood cat in kerosene and lit it on fire.
00:41:53
>> How do you go from being kind to animals to that? >> Head injuries. Wow. There were also charges for shoplifting
00:42:02
and petty violence. In 1961, he was removed from his mother's care for a second time, this time involuntarily,
00:42:09
and placed again in foster care. His relationship with his foster parents got off to a very bad start, and it
00:42:15
basically stayed that way for the entire duration of the placement. In 1962, he was reported uh to the police by his
00:42:22
foster parents for stealing a 22 caliber pistol, which he said he took in order to shoot animals for food.
00:42:31
Whoa. So that charge got him sent back to a juvenile justice center in Watsonville where he continued to
00:42:37
demonstrate a very defiant and antisocial behavior, particularly when it came to authority figures.
00:42:45
In 1966, he found work in the auto parts uh section of Disco, which was a San Francisco department store. And it was
00:42:52
there that he met Dolores, his soon-to-be wife, not to be confused with my sweet angel of a daughter.
00:42:58
>> No. Now, she later said, "I started taking Johnny home cuz he didn't have a car, and every time I took him home, we
00:43:04
got closer and closer." She was married at the time, but within a few months, she divorced her husband so that she
00:43:09
could be with John Frasier. >> Wo! >> Choices. At first, the relationship was pretty good. Everything seemed normal.
00:43:16
But then she started to notice some unusual behavior in John. She said he would get horribly sweaty and cold, and
00:43:22
he'd yell and cry and whimper in the middle of the night. >> Oh, that's really sad.
00:43:27
>> It is. And she said at times he seemed so paranoid that he kept a loaded gun in
00:43:31
the drawer of his nightstand. >> He's clearly >> suffering from something. >> He has mental illness 100%.
00:43:37
>> So the couple got married in 1967 and moved to Washington hoping to make a fresh start. But unfortunately things
00:43:45
did not work out out there. Jobs were very hard to come by. So they struggled and they scraped together enough just to
00:43:51
get by. But in September of that year, Dolores found out that she was pregnant with their daughter Lisa. and it became
00:43:58
clear that they weren't going to be able to make it in Washington. So, they returned to the Santa Cruz area where
00:44:03
Jon found work at an auto shop. Like always, things would be pretty good for a while, but then after a few months,
00:44:09
Jon would find faults with his employer, with his co-workers. He'd get into arguments, and he'd eventually get
00:44:15
fired. Dolores said he always had to change jobs cuz there was always someone who he couldn't get along with or who
00:44:21
was always picking on him. >> Oh, we all know people like that. It's never their fault.
00:44:25
>> Never their fault. Finally, in 1969, he got a job with Performance West, which
00:44:30
was a foreign car mechanic. And this was the one job that seemed to stick. The owner, Richard Deont, told a reporter,
00:44:36
"He was the best worker I ever had." Wo. >> Yeah. So, Frasier, managed to stay out
00:44:43
of trouble until May of 1970 when he was picked up by police for harassing a local girl on the sidewalk.
00:44:49
>> Awesome. >> Yeah. According to Dolores, the young girl had been walking down the sidewalk
00:44:54
on her way to school when she was verbally assaulted by John. He denied it was him, but she was able to identify
00:45:00
him in a lineup. After the identification, they let him go with a warning because he only frightened her.
00:45:07
>> That's it. You have to actually cause somebody physical. >> Hurt someone. >> He didn't hit her. So,
00:45:13
>> no, she just scared the [ __ ] out of him. >> Terrified on the way to school.
00:45:16
>> He just menaced her, that's all. >> It's fine. Men Men are allowed to do that.
00:45:20
>> People are idiots. >> Yeah, it's a man's world. What are you thinking? >> So, to investigators, he sounded like
00:45:25
countless other petty criminals that they'd run into. Young guys with bad up upbringings who were mad at the world
00:45:32
and their parents and wanted to take it out on whoever stepped on their path. He
00:45:36
definitely seemed like a nuisance, but to investigators, he really didn't seem like the kind of guy who could plan and
00:45:42
execute a mass murder of a family for no obvious reason. >> Valid. Now, detectives managed to track
00:45:48
him to Performance West where they discovered he'd been working until a few months earlier when he quit
00:45:53
unexpectedly. Now, remember this. >> Yeah, he's the best worker they've ever had.
00:45:58
>> The description of Frraasier given by Deont, uh, that of a clean-cut, married
00:46:01
man and a great employee, seemed at odds with the man that investigators came to
00:46:06
know through his criminal record. But, as it turned out, there was an explanation for that. After Dupont gave
00:46:11
them the address that they had on file for Frraasier, detectives learned that right around the time he quit his job
00:46:17
there, he also left his wife abruptly and moved out of the house. >> Oh. According to Dolores, a few days
00:46:24
before he was picked up for that verbal assault, he was in another car accident and hit his head when he rearended
00:46:30
another car. >> Oh [ __ ] At the time, she said he didn't seem to be hurt in obvious way in any
00:46:36
obvious way. At least not physically. But she did say he had a bump on his forehead. It wasn't bleeding, just
00:46:41
raised. But he wouldn't let me touch it at all. He wouldn't see a doctor, and he
00:46:45
wouldn't hardly let me near him. >> Oh boy. Now, in the days that followed, he continued to insist that he was fine.
00:46:51
But he started to behave even more strangely. According to his friend, David Marlo, he started hearing voices
00:46:57
that were warning him against catastrophe. This is such severe mental health issues.
00:47:01
>> It is. Dolores said he said he heard voices that said he should never drive again or he'd be killed. He was very
00:47:07
different. His whole attitude was cheap and aggressive. >> He said, "That's a read."
00:47:12
>> That's Wow. What a way to describe that. Cheap and aggressive. You're acting cheap.
00:47:17
>> It's crazy. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Now, at first, Dolores was hesitant to tell the detectives where Jon had gone,
00:47:22
but eventually she relented and she told them. >> Guys, we got to stop hesitating.
00:47:26
>> I think she was embarrassed. >> Everyone's very hesitant in this in this >> because look, don't hesitate.
00:47:32
>> Okay, stop hesitating. Now, after he moved out of the house, he moved into an abandoned shack in the
00:47:39
woods, just a few miles from the Ots family house. Oh, I hate this. Later, after his picture was published in all
00:47:47
the papers, neighbors of the Otaf family told the police that they saw somebody who looked very much like Frasier
00:47:53
walking from the woods to a water tower near their houses, where he appeared to watch the Otah house with binoculars for
00:48:02
hours on end and then climb down from the water tower and retreat into the woods. To which I say, neighbors,
00:48:11
if you see a strange man in the woods using binoculars to watch a family home, maybe call the police before that entire
00:48:19
family gets murdered. The amount of unnecessary hesitation in this story is sending me into [ __ ] orbit.
00:48:28
>> Especially this one, they're like, come to think of it, >> you know what? There was that guy in the
00:48:33
water tower. >> The guy who lives in the woods was watching this family for literally hours
00:48:39
on end >> at top the water tower. >> A top the water tower. And it just slipped my mind. That would be something
00:48:47
that would be top tip top. >> Also, I would hope that would come knock on my door.
00:48:52
>> I would hope >> and say, "Hey, there's a man watching your home with binoculars at top the
00:48:56
water tower. >> We should do something." But >> do you want me to call someone? You guys
00:49:00
should go somewhere. >> Yeah. Hello. >> I'm I'm shook by everybody in this. >> So, now certain that they uh had the
00:49:09
right suspect, >> Yeah. >> police and sheriff's deputies combed the woods around the Otah house for hours
00:49:13
until they ended up finding the shack. But there was no sign of Jon anywhere. Convinced he would return at some point,
00:49:19
they set up a stake out, and they watched the shack for almost an entire day. Around 8:00 a.m. on the morning of
00:49:25
October 23rd, they saw him return. Not wanting to alert him to their presence, they waited an hour or two longer before
00:49:33
finally storming the shack. More hesitancy. They >> But, you know, I'm like, like I realize
00:49:40
you don't want to like scare them right away, but like 25 minutes. >> Like an hour or two.
00:49:45
>> Half an hour. >> An hour or two feels like >> 20 minutes. >> 20 minutes max. >> Max.
00:49:51
>> I me thinks like >> I've never done it before >> for 20 minutes. Like he's he's doing his
00:49:57
thing. >> Yeah, >> you you're free to storm the shack at that point. >> Storm it.
00:50:01
>> Storm the [ __ ] shack. >> Please. >> Everybody hustle. >> Pri hustle. >> Pri this is California. Everybody's
00:50:10
chiller. >> If this was the East Coast, you'd never see it go down. >> You never see it be this slow. Nobody
00:50:16
can be that slow over here. >> So they like, like I said, they waited an hour or two before they stormed the
00:50:22
shack. And that's where they caught Frraasier asleep on a dirty mattress laid out on the floor.
00:50:27
>> Holy [ __ ] >> He was startled by the presence of police in his shack. But as soon as he
00:50:32
understood what was happening, he looked at Terry Medina and said, "Why don't you
00:50:36
give me what I deserve?" >> Wa! >> Chilling. >> That's really chilling. >> Now, he was taken into custody that
00:50:42
morning and a few hours later, he was charged with the murders of the four members of the Ot family and the murder
00:50:49
of Dorothy Codwalader. The arrest was a major relief to everybody in Santa Cruz County, especially when District
00:50:55
Attorney Chang announced that they had captured the sole person responsible for the murders.
00:51:00
>> Wow. >> And true to his word, Peter Chang made sure to tell reporters that they could
00:51:04
not have apprehended John Frasier if it was not for the help of the hippie community who were quote unquote totally
00:51:11
revulsed by the mass executions. >> But look at him. >> I know. >> That's nice that he kept his word. It is
00:51:16
>> cuz it's the truth. >> It is. Now, in their interviews with Frraasier's family and friends, they
00:51:21
learned that after one of the the most recent recent accident, John had developed a fixation with wealthy people
00:51:27
that he believed were quote unquote too materialistic. He said that they were harming the
00:51:32
earth. But the one person he was the most fixated on was Victor Ot. >> Why? According to a former friend, in
00:51:41
the weeks leading up to the murders, John made several statements about how big things would be happening next
00:51:47
Monday, which indicated his plan to kill the Otas. That same friend also told detectives that John confessed to him
00:51:55
that he had broken into the Ot family home on several occasions when they weren't there. And while inside, he s
00:52:01
stole several items, including the binoculars he was using to stalk them and the 22 caliber pistol that they were
00:52:08
killed with. >> Later say something. >> Yeah. Later, when Lark, their daughter, was shown uh the items found in
00:52:16
Frraasier's possession, she identified them all as having belonged to her father.
00:52:20
>> Wow. Now, the evidence was already quite substantial by the end of the day that
00:52:25
he was arrested, but there was still more to be learned in the days that followed. Shortly after his arrest, he
00:52:31
was placed in a voice lineup where he was identified by the gas station attendant as the man seen driving
00:52:36
Virginia Ot's station wagon on the night of the murders. And beyond that, there were his own statements about the
00:52:43
murders made the day following his arrest. According to John, he said he received a message from God telling him
00:52:50
that the Otah family needed to die because they were too rich and they were harming the earth with their reckless
00:52:56
materialism. Wow. Now, meanwhile, these people are like giving back to their community.
00:53:02
>> That's the thing. >> They're using their wealth for good. >> Now, on the day of the murders, he said
00:53:06
he broke into the house early in the afternoon when no one was home, which is so [ __ ] scary. That's when he found
00:53:12
the 22 caliber pistol and the scarves that he and he started planning the executions in their home.
00:53:19
>> Wow. >> He placed a call to Mr. OTA's office saying that Virginia wouldn't be able to
00:53:23
pick up the children from school because she was having car trouble knowing that
00:53:28
it would require them to change their plans and now that they would all be coming home at different times.
00:53:34
>> That's too much premeditation for me. Like he thought that through way too well.
00:53:38
>> Oh yeah. When Dorothy returned to the house with Derek Ot a few hours later, John ambushed them at the door and tied
00:53:45
them up with the scarves. Mr. Ot and Tagert returned home next and they were ambushed and tied up in the same way.
00:53:51
And finally, Virginia came home and she too was ambushed and tied up. With the entire family bound and gathered in the
00:53:59
living room, John ranted for some time about his beliefs about how they were harming the earth. And then he explained
00:54:06
that he needed to destroy their home and actually even asked Victor Ot to help him do it. Victor Ot did not respond to
00:54:13
the request, but instead he said, "We'll give you whatever you want. You can have
00:54:17
any money that you want, and please just let my family live." >> But the mention of money and possession
00:54:23
sent John over the edge, and now he was enraged. He dragged Mr. Ot, Dr. Ot out to the pool, pushed him in, and then
00:54:32
shot him three times. What the [ __ ] Now, once he started killing, he said he understood that
00:54:39
there was no going back. Moments later, he brought Virginia and Dorothy out to the pool and told the blindfolded women
00:54:46
to kneel down. Oh. >> After they did as he instructed, John asked Virginia whether she believed in
00:54:51
God. And when she said that she did, he said, "Then you have nothing to fear." And shot them both in the back of the
00:54:57
neck and pushed their bodies into the pool. This is so [ __ ] up. >> It's so dark. Now, after killing all
00:55:04
three adults, he said he hesitated when it came to the children who were 11 and 12. He told investigators that he
00:55:11
kneelled down on the pavement beside the pool and begged God to give him a sign that he should spare the children. But
00:55:17
when he didn't receive a sign, he said he had no other choice than to accept that the sins of the father had been
00:55:22
passed on to the sons. >> Oh, [ __ ] off. >> So, he shot and killed both boys, Derek
00:55:27
and Tagard. >> Wow. >> Now, it was clear to detectives that he had absolutely killed the family. But
00:55:33
the question on many people's minds, which I'm sure you can say it with me, >> was he legally sane when he committed
00:55:39
the murders, >> which I'm so happy you've been pointing out the premeditation here.
00:55:44
>> Yeah. >> So, in the weeks after his arrest, he was placed in the custody of the county
00:55:47
jail where he made a suicide attempt in his cell by cutting one of his wrists kind of. In his statement to the press,
00:55:56
Peter Chang told reporters, "He made a very superficial cut on one wrist. He is in no danger."
00:56:02
In fact, it seemed that most of his behavior while in custody was that of somebody trying to convince people that
00:56:08
he was mentally ill rather than somebody who was genuinely suffering from a mental disorder. I'm not here to say
00:56:13
that he didn't have a mental disorder, >> but it very much seemed like he was >> trying to play it up a little more.
00:56:19
>> Yeah. Now, for instance, just before his interview with an evaluating psychiatrist, he shaved all the hair on
00:56:26
one side of his head, including his eyebrows, for no apparent reason other than just to look.
00:56:32
>> I just saw that picture and it is very unsettling. >> It's really chilling. Terry Medina said
00:56:38
in 2020, it very quickly just became a media train wreck. From the moment he was arrested, Santa Cruz County was
00:56:44
descended upon by journalists from not only just all over the country, but some case in some cases all over the world.
00:56:51
The case was very sensational. And being that it was 1971, the idea of a spree killer was still pretty unfamiliar to
00:56:58
most people. So a figure like John Frasier terrified ordinary people, especially coming so close on the heels
00:57:05
of the Manson murders. Now, as a result, the defense filed several motions that delayed the start of the trial,
00:57:11
including a request for a gag order on everyone involved in the case and a motion to move the trial out of Santa
00:57:17
Cruz County to ensure that he would be treated fairly. A judge approved the motion for the relocation, specifically
00:57:24
citing the local population's animosity toward the hippie community >> and commending uh Peter Chang for his
00:57:30
attempts to minimize those negative feelings. >> He did try. >> He did. Now, in late October of 1971, a
00:57:37
year after the murders had been committed, the trial finally got started in Redwood City, which is about 50 mi
00:57:43
from Santa Cruz, and there were countless spectators, journalists, everybody gathered inside the courtroom
00:57:49
and even waiting in the halls. Assistant uh assistant district attorney Chris Codddle said, "I would put him in the
00:57:55
same camp as Manson, but unlike the Manson trial, there was no cheering section for Frraasier."
00:58:00
>> Isn't that interesting? Isn't it also insane that there was a cheering section
00:58:05
for a group of people that murdered a woman who was 8 and 1/2 months pregnant and all of her friends and then a
00:58:12
married couple? >> Mhm. >> What's there to cheer for? And also, how you picking and choosing exactly? Now,
00:58:19
given that he had already essentially confessed to the murders, it was the job of the defense to convince the jury that
00:58:24
he was too mentally ill to be held accountable for the crimes. And to that end, he did his best to play the part.
00:58:30
During witness testimony for the prosecution, he stared relentlessly at the witnesses and at one point even
00:58:36
yelled at the district attorney for getting in between him and a witness that was on the stand. But despite the
00:58:41
antics in the courtroom, several people testified to his bizarre behavior and the frequency that he raised the subject
00:58:48
of quote unquote snuffing out the rich and materialistic people of the world. >> That's the thing. He's been talking
00:58:53
about this. It's not like this was like, "Oh, I snapped." >> Exactly. So, the trial dragged on for
00:58:58
over a month with even more strange outbursts from Frraasier. Throughout the trial, uh, his defense attorney, James
00:59:05
Jackson, did his best to demonstrate his client's poor mental health and the extent to which they did believe that
00:59:10
the police violated his rights with regard to collection of physical evidence, blah, blah, blah. Despite his
00:59:16
best efforts, though, it actually seemed like John Frasier was working against his lawyer rather than with him. Jackson
00:59:23
recalled in 2020, "Frazier didn't talk to me. He just wouldn't talk to us for a long time and he gave three different
00:59:29
stories to a psychiatrist. >> Oh jeez. >> Now, in addition to the obvious fact that he was mentally ill, the
00:59:35
prosecution faced the hurdle of not having the murder weapon at the time of the trial. But what they did have was
00:59:41
enough to place him in the house at several points, including on the night of the murder. And while it may have
00:59:47
been obvious that he was unwell when the crimes were committed, he killed a family which included two children. So
00:59:54
they were hoping that would override at least some of the sympathy that jurors felt if any at all. Now on November
01:00:00
26th, 1971, both sides gave their closing arguments and the case was handed over to the jury.
01:00:06
>> Throughout the trial, it was very hard to ignore that while he may have been performing this mental illness at
01:00:11
various points, he was actively clearly suffering from some kind of mental illness.
01:00:16
>> And that did strengthen the defense's case. It made it tough for the jury. Mhm.
01:00:20
>> But being ill, mentally ill, was not in it in itself enough to prove that he was
01:00:25
legally insane at the time of those two very different things. >> That's the thing that you have to
01:00:30
remember. >> In fact, like you've been saying this whole time, there was considerable
01:00:34
evidence that established he planned these murders in advance. And not only that, but he gathered what he needed in
01:00:41
order to execute this plan. >> And on top of that, even after he committed the murders, this is a biggie.
01:00:47
He set the house on fire and blocked both driveways in order to prevent help from arriving.
01:00:52
>> Yeah, that's big. >> Which all suggested that while yes, maybe mentally ill, he was still sane
01:00:58
enough to know that what he was doing was a crime. >> Yeah. >> After 3 days, the jury emerged from
01:01:03
deliberation and they found John Lindley Frasier guilty of five counts of first-degree murder. The following
01:01:09
month, the same jury found him to have been legally sane at the time of those murders.
01:01:13
>> I agree. >> And he was sentenced to death. >> Whoa. When a reporter asked him how he
01:01:18
felt about the sentence, he said, "Oh, I don't know what sentence." And then laughed. "Wow." Unfortunately, while
01:01:25
investigators initially did think that Tom Deco's murder was linked to the Utah family murders, there was never
01:01:31
sufficient evidence and the case remains unsolved. >> Wow. >> In 1972, just a few months after John
01:01:37
Frasier was sentenced to death, though, the California Supreme Court overturned the death penalty on the grounds that it
01:01:43
was a cruel and unusual punishment. So Frasier's sentence was commuted to life in prison. A few weeks later, detectives
01:01:50
found the OTA murder weapon among his possessions. Stop. >> They just didn't initially find it. What
01:01:58
now? John Lley Frasier ultimately spent 37 years at Mule Creek State Prison in Lone, California until August 13th, 2009
01:02:06
when he was found to have hanged himself in his cell at the age of 63. >> Wow. And that is the story of the Otah
01:02:15
family murders. Wow. >> What a chilling case. >> What a chilling case. Truly, >> this man just like truly loses his grip
01:02:25
on reality. >> He never had a chance from the beginning. >> He really didn't. But like moves into a
01:02:31
shack in the woods and just singles in on this family. >> That's so scary. And like I need to know
01:02:37
for how long these people saw him. >> That's the thing. Like >> I'm sorry. That's making me cry.
01:02:44
>> No, I know. >> Like what? And then just the fact that they were like, "Oh, yeah. Come to think
01:02:49
of it." >> Like that's why I'm so glad me and my neighbors are all up each other's asses.
01:02:54
>> Hell yeah. You should be. >> And it honestly that's the way it should be. We're always looking out for each
01:02:57
other. >> I hope mine are looking out for me. >> Our group chat pops off if there's
01:03:01
something suspicious going on. We're all just out there like, "What the [ __ ] up, Kyle?
01:03:06
>> What the [ __ ] is up, Kyle?" >> Like, FedEx trucks. Sorry. >> You're getting ganged up on by my whole
01:03:14
neighborhood. We're following you around. That's just the way it is. >> Neighbors coming out their house.
01:03:18
>> It's true. We're all just like staring you down as you go by. >> It's wild. >> I can't imagine my neighbors just being
01:03:24
like, "Yeah, it's so weird. We saw somebody watching your house in your family with binoculars for hours on
01:03:30
end." >> Yeah, it was nuts. We just kind of went about our business. Like I can't imagine
01:03:35
that. >> And also like how long did it take to communicate to that to the police
01:03:39
because they were struggling to find a suspect for the >> and all of a sudden everyone's like come
01:03:43
to think of it >> that guy from the water tower. >> Weird that guy that was staring at you.
01:03:47
>> I feel like people like really kept to themselves like >> Oh yeah. I think it was a totally
01:03:52
different like culture. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> but it's like >> to a to a bad degree.
01:03:59
>> Yeah. to her detriment. Exactly. >> Damn. >> I think we're going to need a fun fact.
01:04:05
>> Yeah. >> I love this. In Switzerland, it's illegal to own just one guinea pig.
01:04:12
>> I know >> because guinea pigs are like broy and they're very sociable. >> Yeah.
01:04:17
>> So, they literally the Swiss government classifies owning just one single guinea
01:04:22
pig as animal abuse. >> Oh my god, I love that. >> That's pretty badass. >> That's so funny that you said that.
01:04:27
>> A plus Switzerland. My angel sweet daughter Dolores went to the pet store and she was like intrigued by the guinea
01:04:35
pigs yesterday. >> Wow, that is weird. >> It's weird that you just brought up guinea pigs today.
01:04:39
>> Can't have just one. >> No. >> Got to catch them all. >> I feel like you can't just have one
01:04:43
animal at all. You have to have really, unfortunately. >> It's just the way it is.
01:04:46
>> Yeah. >> Oh, that's so cute. >> Isn't that adorable? >> All right. Well, thanks so much and we
01:04:52
hope you keep listening. >> And we hope you >> keep it weird. But not so that you don't
01:04:58
report the strange activities in the woods outside of your house and a man at top a water tower watching a family with
01:05:02
their own binoculars. >> Yeah, I hate that a lot. Shame. I hate it a lot. >> Their own binoculars.
01:05:49
Heat. Heat.