00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is [Music] morbid woo this is more I've had a bajaa
00:00:32
blast so I am CU crazy ah I it's affecting her too FKS said a please please do please go for it has
00:00:47
become a Baja Blast at this moment I'm always a bajaa blast she's on a Baja Blast Level cuz I had a chai which had
00:00:56
caffeine and then I had acceded migraine which also has caffeine and then I had a
00:01:02
bahaa blast so I might explode during this episode so my heart might exploded but we might have to call an ambulance
00:01:11
but that's fine we uh so hey everybody hi um this is this is just like a fun thing we just
00:01:19
wanted to mention to you uh we had we have another podcast you know scream and you know the rewatcher Buffy the Vampire
00:01:27
Slayer it's our favorite it's so fun to do and um it we have a blast with it and we
00:01:33
got a big get a big get huge we got Juliet landow to be a guest in the last episode Drilla she's Drusilla she's one
00:01:43
of my favorite characters on the show and it was a [ __ ] huge get because I like 14 15-year-old me would have never
00:01:51
thought in a million years that I was going to be talking to Drusilla like never she was just on your wall she was
00:01:57
a treat like a true treat she is a delight of a human being and I'm saying this to one just be like guys because
00:02:05
you're like my friends so I'm like friends guess what I got to talk to Drew and also because Drusilla herself Juliet
00:02:12
landow has a podcast where she is going through Buffy the Vampire Slayer and as a cast member that's like a totally
00:02:19
different experience yeah and she has like her own Scoobies she calls them yes and it's called slaying it so go check
00:02:25
it out um because you know like game see game you know hell yeah let's all support each other so go listen to it
00:02:34
it's awesome she's awesome I'm sure she's going to have some kick-ass guests oh yeah so it's definitely worth a
00:02:40
listen and listen to the rewatcher because we love it and it's so much fun and if you haven't watched Buffy the
00:02:45
Vampire Slayer it's a real fun time yeah you can watch along with me that's the whole show never watched it so this is
00:02:51
her first time going through it and it's my like 500th time we're already on season five it's nuts yeah so let's go
00:02:59
party but that was just like a fun little thing I wanted you guys to go check out after you listen to this
00:03:03
episode go listen to uh theay it or the rewatcher both like first and then third
00:03:10
you know what I mean like well second and then third hit one of them yeah I mean and then hit the other one third I
00:03:16
haven't had enough caffeine so just listen to all the podcasts simultaneous you guys know how to add to the queue
00:03:24
just add it to your que add it to your que add it to your que just swipe swipe I don't know which way
00:03:30
you're like just swipe man just swipe man swipe swipe your hand on that screen of yours and see what happens I don't
00:03:38
know if that's a commercial or like an actual song I don't know also sorry if you heard a it was my hair clip yeah
00:03:44
back to the old days of Ash [ __ ] around with things in her hands sorry I my my like fidgeting lately has been
00:03:52
cucko nuts probably anxiety yep and stress yes yes and yes like I can diagnose those so yeah because actually
00:04:03
I had to skip therapy last week because Drew got sick when we got back from DC and then I had tummy trouble so I said I
00:04:10
cannot come in today sister I don't even have to go anywhere I just do it on my computer but I said I can't do it babe I
00:04:15
cannot log on today I said it way more professionally than that and then she was out this week so I'm two weeks raw
00:04:24
dogging life I am two weeks raw dog [ __ ] life and it's not going well [ __ ] it's not great life has been raw
00:04:39
dogging us honey I thought that I was raw dogging life and life said turn around
00:04:48
baby [ __ ] got so real my therapist doesn't even know I hope she's enjoying vacation because honey you got a big
00:04:59
story coming she's going to be like I'm going to tell her I need a 2hour session she's
00:05:06
going to need therapy after the therapy session with she needs therapy after all
00:05:10
my sessions I think she's also let me just tell you she's the kindest lady ever I would give you her name but Hippa
00:05:17
yeah but Hippa she's so good you know therapist to deal with my ass therapists out there hell yeah yeah you rule I
00:05:24
don't know how you than for existing because damn cuz life just [Laughter] anyway on that
00:05:35
note uh we're okay don't worry about spaha plus wait I'm sorry that's how you know
00:05:43
I'm in a in a bad place when you're sipping your Baja Blast when you're sipping a blue drink
00:05:50
in the middle of a work day oh what a blue drink in the middle of a work day when I'm sipping on nuclear horse p on a
00:05:57
work day that's when you know things are aai so uh speaking of aai um and somebody who could have benefited from
00:06:07
therapy uh that was a great transition we're GNA talk about John George Haye who is the Acid Bath murderer how about
00:06:16
John George nay yeah John George hey bye that's what like John George by you got
00:06:22
to make a gross face like oh uhoh so let's talk about John George hay huh he had um quite a childhood you said said
00:06:29
Acid Bath yep I sure did all right I just needed to clar I that like 10 minutes later you're like wait a second
00:06:34
yeah Acid Bath you say sometimes that doesn't penetrate like past the that one was rough all right um rough childhood
00:06:41
but John George Haye had not a great childhood probably not a tough childhood I'm again I'm no I think you got guys
00:06:49
know by now six years in I'm not validating what he did by for a second I was like I'm not saying he should have
00:06:55
done this no no no no no um so John George Haye was born July 24th that was yesterday waa he's weird I
00:07:04
didn't even mean to do that why does that happen so often to I'm just [ __ ] with why does that happen so often
00:07:09
that's weird no it actually that's something that has happened since like the beginning of this pod or even like
00:07:14
like we would cover something and then like a major thing about it would break yeah and it was always after I was like
00:07:19
we're witches yeah some's up with that or we just have bad timing I don't know uh but he was born in 1909 which it is
00:07:24
not no and he was born in Lin I look this up Lincolnshire England okay want to make sure I say it right for you guys
00:07:32
uh to John Senior and Emily hey just a few months before his birth Jon's father lost his job at the Stamford electrical
00:07:41
plant and obviously this put a big Financial strain on the family and with a new baby coming and it being 1909 and
00:07:49
all this was pretty stressful yikes but later after John George Hay's trial John
00:07:54
George hay Jr um Emily Haye his mother would say that quote the financial and emotional instability this caused at the
00:08:03
time affected her son in the womb and twisted his mind wait the financial instability did that yeah the financial
00:08:12
instability Twisted a baby in udo's mind and that's why he became what he became
00:08:19
I will say I've heard crazier [ __ ] than that but that's that's high on the list
00:08:23
someone's pretty high up um forget if you were born during a recession yeah you're [ __ ] your mind's twisted I'm
00:08:29
going to go ahead and say probably not um but I'm not a doctor uh fortunately John J senior or John Hay Senor excuse
00:08:37
me managed to find work with a mining company in West Yorkshire a few months after the birth of John hey JR but it
00:08:44
was too late his mind was already Twisted already Twisted from the financial strain of it all um and the
00:08:49
family relocated to nearby Wakefield now here's where we're going to learn about like what his childhood
00:08:56
was like because Above All Else the this family was defined and ruled by religion
00:09:03
oh they were devout followers of the Plymouth Brethren which was a non- ritualistic and anti-clerical branch of
00:09:12
protestantism they adhered to an incredibly strict because I wasn't saying like religion that's the problem
00:09:19
no it's just this in particular is a wild way for a kid to grow up more like a cult it is a very strict set of
00:09:26
inflexible rules from the Old Testament and this was not this was also not the norm in England it's not like everybody
00:09:33
was going for this and you know like this particular flavor of religious fer fervor and piety you didn't call it a
00:09:40
flavor what did I call it no you did but I I like what did I call it you didn't call it a flavor I like oh no she did
00:09:46
not this flavor of religious fervor and piety made them like oddballs to their neighbors like this was not accepted
00:09:54
this was not a thing that everybody was doing um in fact they were very disconnected from their neighbors
00:10:00
because of it and they considered their neighbors quote Sinners and dangerous to
00:10:05
their souls so this is where I say this is the dangerous thing because this isn't like their set of rules that
00:10:11
they're only keeping for themselves this is them breeding an idea in that household that people around you are
00:10:19
evil and demonic and that they are going to be the reason you don't get to heaven
00:10:25
yeah it's giving Ed gan's mom yeah so it gives the it gives the idea like like you got to do what you got to do to make
00:10:31
sure that you get to go to heaven and it's also just creating like a crazy amount of isolation oh in a young
00:10:37
child's life wild amount like among other things Plymouth Brethren forbid any forms of entertainment sports or
00:10:45
celebration oh that's really sad and reading is strictly limited to the Old Testament Bible and that's
00:10:53
it oh my God how boring yeah in a child that's it no kids need other stuff like your mind
00:11:02
has to develop past just like it's fine if you're like religious obviously like that can play a relig is dangerous
00:11:11
that's the thing it's like that can't be your whole life yeah it's when it becomes to this extent that it's that
00:11:16
gets dangerous yeah you have to be allowed to enjoy other things in fact John Senior would frequently say to his
00:11:21
son it's a sin to be happy in this world what I mean I guess I'm not sitting I'm
00:11:27
just kidding yeah it's like so just Jing I'm just joshing no but he really would
00:11:33
say that to his son and John Junior's early life was devoted entirely to trying to avoid the actual like the
00:11:42
infinite list of sin that was told to be to him to be in the world around him wow
00:11:48
and had to he had to make sure he was obsessed with behaving in a way that would please God and ensure his spot in
00:11:55
heaven that's so much that's the whole message is like everyone around around you is a sinner everyone around you is
00:12:02
demonic and they are all doing everything they can to trick you into a path that will lead to you not being
00:12:07
allowed to go to heaven and you will displease God and this is like a child yeah um but like the financial strain in
00:12:15
the womb though you know that that was really it that did the worst damage um now believing the modern world uh to be
00:12:22
very Wicked and sinful and happy that wasn't very happy uh that wasn't just like you know r
00:12:29
for this family it was a genuine belief it was a belief that everyone around them their neighbors people they met PE
00:12:36
family friends anybody they were a true true threat to their Eternal Souls like that is the idea here yikes and in order
00:12:45
to protect his family from this John Senior built a 10 foot tall fence around the house and would not let John Jr go
00:12:55
out in the yard or leave the yard that's so dark yeah instead John Jr would just
00:13:01
spend all of his free time indoors with his mother or just sitting in the house in a room practicing hymns on the organ
00:13:09
for hours and hours oh that could drive you absolutely mad one reporter said um he just sat there and dreamed dreams of
00:13:17
a grim world of religious fantasy oh God but the financial strain in the womb that's that there it is wild that she
00:13:27
pointed to that I was like really that's all you can point to not the isolation uh but despite their fears of
00:13:33
the outside world and the intense isolation that they put their child through John's parents did know that a
00:13:39
good education was something of value okay that's good um so they encouraged their son to and then and they kind of
00:13:46
went too hard on this too because they really encouraged Perfection uh at school where he went to Wakefield
00:13:51
grammar school he was remembered by his teachers as a good boy and a model scholar I bet um but some of his
00:13:58
teachers did call him mischievous boy but I think that's just like little kids oh he was just trying to have fun when
00:14:03
he wasn't at home exactly and that said this like enforced isolation that he was
00:14:08
under all the time especially from his peers and anyone else that meant that he had no friends and he really didn't ever
00:14:16
interact with kids his age he was always around two adults at all times and so he
00:14:22
spent a lot of time like he didn't really he wasn't good at making friends and he spent a lot of time alone but he
00:14:27
did develop and this later we're going to find out like it's weird that he changes but he developed a real Love of
00:14:34
Animals he used to really dot on rabbits that he found in the woods and he would
00:14:38
feed the neighbor neighborhood stray dogs and cats like he was very I think he just wanted friends oh that's really
00:14:45
sad like you feel sad for the child sad for the child of course now following his graduation from high school in
00:14:51
1926 things started to take a turn like he was suddenly seeing that there side World um so John junor went to work for
00:15:00
an engineering firm where he trained as a motor mechanic um his father had worked as an engineer most his life so
00:15:07
John Jor did have a strong interest in mechanical engineering and he was actually hoping to follow in his
00:15:13
Father's Footsteps because again that's literally all he knew yeah uh but within
00:15:17
a few months he found that the pace of the job and like the amount of manual labor it's a lot involved in it was a
00:15:24
little too taxing for him he was very smart but he was a little lazy and he was disinclined towards physical work
00:15:30
and I think that's a lot of the time I I think that's like cuz was he really doing a whole lot I'm sure nobody was
00:15:37
coming to their house their house probably wasn't like yeah he wasn't probably doing a ton of chores in that
00:15:42
house you know like he just just sat around all day and read the Old Testament and played hymns on the organ
00:15:48
that's what he was used to so it's like now that he's being asked to like do work and he's like I don't know what
00:15:52
that is he's like that's a lot bro he's like I don't know can I just sit and read this Bible though and they're like
00:15:58
no you can't they're that's not the job title at all so he wasn't loving it so he was not willing to put in the work at
00:16:03
the engineering firm and he quit and afterwards he took a desk job at an insurance company and that's where he
00:16:10
discovered that he did have quite a knack for numbers and accounting because again he's a smart kid yeah uh by 1930
00:16:18
he had moved onto a larger more specialized insurance company that also had like a focus on Advertising so here
00:16:26
he was very successful but then his employer suspected that he was the one that had
00:16:31
been stealing from the office cash box oh and he got fired that's a sin yeah stealing as we'll see he takes a turn
00:16:40
away from religion I guess so yeah so he got fired but undeterred and at 21 years
00:16:47
old he started his own advertising company Northern electric newspapers limited okay which actually made a
00:16:53
pretty brief appearance on the London Stock Exchange so like mildly successful 21 too that's a that's crazy which again
00:17:02
sad looks like he had some promise here and like just used potential to to a point and then I'm assuming it goes El
00:17:11
uh again he was very intelligent he had some skills that he really could have used and In This Moment like at this
00:17:18
time he it gave him the appearance of being successful even though he wasn't doing like a lot of real work um and his
00:17:25
confidence and ability to persuade others he was very Charming he somehow gained some charm and Charisma through
00:17:32
being isolated I don't really know how I wonder if he just like watched people for I studied people I think you are
00:17:39
absolutely right with that I think that's part of his thing is he studies people and takes pieces of other
00:17:44
people's personalities because we'll see him do that when he tries to get an insanity defense as well okay um I so I
00:17:51
totally agree with you um but this was also like you just said he he watches people this was going to be like a
00:17:58
pretty critical thing in his CRI criminal development as well I had a feeling yeah um he in the next couple of
00:18:04
years he started running a number of petty scams in the leads area because again he doesn't really want to work for
00:18:11
his money yeah he just wants he doesy yeah so he started defrauding local businesses of like small amounts of
00:18:17
money or he would just skip out on bills for services and see what he could get away with oh that's shitty that's like
00:18:23
HH Holmes yeah it's [ __ ] up now four years after starting his company the first big occurred in John's life a big
00:18:30
major event on July 6th I don't know why I said July and then you said 6th July 6th 1934 I need a speech pathologist yes
00:18:40
um he married his girlfriend 21-year-old beatric Hammer okay cool what a sick [ __ ] name beatric Hammer uh this
00:18:48
marriage was like a shock to everyone yeah uh cuz they were like who what you're dating someone like everybody was
00:18:54
just like what are you talking about um in very much so in Beatrice's family cuz
00:18:59
the couple had been dating like almost no time at all and they knew nothing about him her family so they were like
00:19:05
what um her sister Rose Williams told a reporter beatric was married without our
00:19:10
family knowing after a very quick courtship and she said after her wedding beatric had written home saying what a
00:19:16
wonderful man hay was and how kind he had been and she said but within 12 months of marriage they were separated
00:19:23
after hey had received a jail sentence Oh no so so they were like super kind men
00:19:29
yeah now after experimenting with some small con jobs in the early 1930s he started ramping it up he's doing these
00:19:35
little petty things he's defatting some businesses seeing what he can get away with seeing what he can get away with
00:19:40
totally rebelling against that that uh religious upbringing evidently uh but it seems to have occurred to him at some
00:19:47
point during this that there was easier ways of making money than putting in any
00:19:51
kind of hard work cuz he's seeing it work like he's seeing these frauds and these conss actually pay off right um
00:19:57
later he would say I did not ask myself whether I was doing right or wrong that seemed to me to be irrelevant which is
00:20:05
shocking and very against what he had had drilled into him his entire life which it's like that just went you
00:20:13
wonder though if he just I mean it must have been really tough to grow up in the
00:20:18
household that he did so he probably has some kind of like diss disassociation disassociative personality where he can
00:20:25
just turn it on and turn it off or something where he like compartmentalizes pieces of things you
00:20:31
know what I mean where it's just like yeah I didn't even think about that like something that could be used as a coping
00:20:36
mechanism but on the on its on it head could be used as something not so great strange very interesting but because of
00:20:44
this because he didn't really care if it was right or wrong um John began running
00:20:48
a scam on local car dealerships he would buy cars under fake names and then he would arrange to pay them on an
00:20:55
installment plan but then turned around and sold those cars to to himself to someone else to make a profit and when
00:21:01
the dealership would inevitably start looking for the payments on these vehicles they only had fake names and
00:21:07
fake phone numbers [ __ ] so they couldn't find whoever bought it think of that yeah and the scam worked for a few
00:21:14
months but then he was caught in November 1934 and he was sentenced to 15 months in jail for forgery and fraud
00:21:21
yeah now not long before he went to jail for that JN and beatric had learned that
00:21:25
she was pregnant oh no uh the Forger fraud charge along with the prison sentence had apparently changed
00:21:31
Beatrice's opinion of her new husband and not long after he started serving his sentence she decided they should be
00:21:37
separated oh that's really sad um The Shame of this whole arrest business very deeply affected beatric and she actually
00:21:44
ultimately decided to put the baby Pauline up for adoption as well oh wow she told her family she quote did not
00:21:50
want to bring her up as the daughter of a jail bird oh which was you could bring
00:21:55
her up differently yeah like you could take care of her like you're my daughter I'm bringing you up as my kid yeah but
00:22:02
John was released from prison after serving little more than a year of his sentence and then he moved back in with
00:22:07
his parents and his parents lent him money to start a dry cleaning company but the company fell apart after his
00:22:14
business partner was killed in a car accident and John was forced to close the whole thing that's sad now Hay's
00:22:20
jail time and his tendency to not be able to keep jobs didn't really seem to have much of an effect on his reputation
00:22:27
surprisingly and he kept making contacts in the B business world like he was able
00:22:32
to charm you can tell you he must be very Adept at being Charming because those are the kind of guys where you go
00:22:39
how did no one [ __ ] catch on yeah but then you're like he's got that thing like he just did he's a Leo man there
00:22:46
you go one leads area lawyer told a reporter after hey was arrested I could not help liking him because of his charm
00:22:53
he seemed to be a harmless type with an amazing imagination his manner of speech
00:22:57
was almost trancing but a person of ordinary intelligence soon realized that beneath his charm and personality he was
00:23:04
a shallow individual yikes but like on the on the surface people are saying like he was almost entrancing which is
00:23:13
like shocking like um it's like fascinating shocking but then you think he probably grew up watching like a
00:23:20
priest or whoever led the servic Serv speak and studied that behavior and their whole thing is they have to be
00:23:28
that you know that you have to keep an attention of a large group of people yeah and also he just had nothing but
00:23:34
time right nothing but time to work these things out and to you know now no longer bound to leads by you know the a
00:23:44
job a wife anything he spent nearly two years just drifting around Northern England and Scotland going through
00:23:52
several scams like several little fraud things and just get getting money along the way um and during this time he would
00:24:00
pose as a solicitor calling himself William Adamson okay and as this Alias he would offer to handle business
00:24:07
transactions for wealthy clients but when the time came to actually hand over the money he would just disappear with
00:24:13
their Investments oh that's so [ __ ] up yeah and the this brief period of transience eventually led him to London
00:24:22
and there in 1936 he found work as a chauffeur to a man named William mwan who was the owner of several successful
00:24:29
amusement parks and arcades so very wealthy man now John spent several months working for the mwan family and
00:24:36
became very close friends with their son Donald's mwan um then he left the job and
00:24:42
returned to his criminal ways because like why have a job ew you know and John once again tried the solicitor fraud
00:24:50
scheme this time in Sur but he was quickly arrested for defrauding someone of £3,000 which is about
00:24:56
$50,000 American 2024 uh in November 1937 he was sentenced to 4 years in prison for fraud
00:25:04
so JN was released from prison in August 1940 just before the German Army started
00:25:10
their Blitz campaign in England during World War II and quickly he found work as a fire warden in Victoria London uh a
00:25:17
few which is like to me that seems like what a jump like you're just like come out of prison you're like fire Warden
00:25:23
yeah like what that seems like an important job I don't know like how did that happen but if few months later in
00:25:29
February 1941 hey along with many other young men in the country registered for military service yeah at the height of
00:25:37
the war it's likely Jon would have been sent to fight at this time like and it's
00:25:41
interesting to think of what would have happened if he did but in June 1941 just
00:25:46
6 months after he left prison he was arrested for stealing household goods he was still on parole from his earlier
00:25:53
conviction so he was sent back to Lincoln prison to serve the remaining 22 21 months of his sentence oh wow so he
00:26:00
failed to attend the scheduled medical review for military service in 1943 and he avoided serving in the military wow
00:26:08
it is crazy to think like what could have happened so many people could still you know could have lived yeah now once
00:26:15
again he seems to have ignored any moral or religious training that he had growing up um just in favor of quick
00:26:24
easy money yeah like he doesn't seem to be looking back on any kind of lessons that he learned good bad
00:26:31
or otherwise no and he's just going his own way at this point um he told several
00:26:35
prisoners at one point if you're going to go wrong go wrong in a big way like me go after women Rich old women who
00:26:42
like a bit of flattery that's your Market if you're after big money I'm like how did you learn that
00:26:48
like I'm just fascinated by how he came to learn all of this I am very fascinated by that um but as he had done
00:26:55
so many other times in his life he Charmed the prisoners he Charmed the guards in prison and eventually he got
00:27:02
an easy job in the prison's tinsmith shop and that's where he learned to work with acid and other chemicals for the
00:27:09
first time the [ __ ] were they given prisoners acid to work with saying here just use this and during this time he
00:27:17
managed to convince the inmates working in the field to bring and this is like a
00:27:21
trigger warning for animal cruelty oh no to bring him any field mice that they captured field mice are the cutest
00:27:27
things you have ever seen so cute and he would kill those field mice and then he
00:27:31
would dissolve them in sulfuric acid that was kept in the shop and people are just like yeah sounds good yeah they
00:27:38
were just like sure I'll bring you some like what who the [ __ ] was out there collecting field mice for this dude and
00:27:45
what was he saying was his reason for this like was he being like I just want to dissolve them in acid and they were
00:27:51
like sure I wonder if he said that he was like experimenting or something yeah it's truly bonkers according to Neil
00:27:59
root uh who wrote frenzy the first great tabloid murders New York who will will link the um the source in the show notes
00:28:08
he said he found that within 10 minutes the acid darkened and the temperature Rose to 100° C after 30 minutes only
00:28:16
black sludge remained of the mice that's important for later I don't want to know
00:28:21
that so JN was released from Lincoln prison in mid-september 1943 and he moved back in with his parents for a
00:28:28
brief period of time oh how lucky for them yeah and then he ended up renting a small room in London and while he was
00:28:35
there he got another job like actual job he got a job as a bookkeeper for Hurst Leia products if hey had any plans for
00:28:43
starting up another fraud scheme at this point I'm sure he did they were derailed
00:28:47
pretty early in 1944 because he was in a car accident himself oh [ __ ] um he did
00:28:53
receive a bad cut to his head the accident itself was minor but this event would go on to play an important role in
00:29:00
Hay's criminal Evolution at least he would claim later that it did that he got like a head injury huh um but it
00:29:07
wasn't that bad okay yeah so it was just convenient he used a lot of things later
00:29:12
now in the summer of 1944 while drinking at the goat on High Street a bar k Kensington yeah the goat uh hay ran into
00:29:20
the son of his old employer W Donald mwan oh yes um so the meeting was like a total chance occurrence like nobody
00:29:29
planned this yeah but the two had spent many nights drinking there years earlier
00:29:32
when hay was employed by the mix swans so Neil root who I just mentioned suggests that he had maybe been staking
00:29:40
out the location in order to run into him again but it does seem like it could go either way like we can't really prove
00:29:48
that he was because it's very likely he could have run into him at this place yeah but either way weird who knows now
00:29:55
at the time John Haye was jobless and honestly was on the brink of being homeless at the time so it would have
00:30:01
made sense for him to look up his former boss to maybe ask for his job back right
00:30:06
um but why he would need to do so in secret is the thing that's a little unclear like why wouldn't you just go
00:30:12
and ask him unless he piss somebody off Donald's son yeah you never know but whatever it was um he did manage to run
00:30:19
into Donald mix Swan and he seemed happy to see him and they seemed happy to see
00:30:24
each other after so many years it was a good meeting all right and Donald mwan um despite his family's vast wealth and
00:30:31
privilege he didn't really have a lot of close friends or relationships like I think he was a little isolated not
00:30:37
intentionally or anything yeah um but according to author Gordon low the only people who appeared to have any real
00:30:43
interest in him were his parents that's I mean it makes sense but it's sad yeah so Donald mwan quickly found work for
00:30:50
hay collecting rents from the renters of the mixw swan's many properties around the place and the two men rekindled
00:30:57
their friendship so he helped he helped um John get work yeah like right away was like oh I'll help you out work so
00:31:04
they spent a few months in a pretty close new rekindled friendship which is nice and during that time hey got to
00:31:11
enjoy the benefits of having a very wealthy friend and he never and this wealthy friend never hesitated to spend
00:31:18
his money on those closest to him like Donald Macwan would treat his friends like he used his money for good I'm very
00:31:25
nervous for Donald mwan then and early September 1944 Donald mwan disappeared Without a
00:31:31
Trace no why do you have to tell me these things I'm sorry his parents were very surprised um he had um some close
00:31:40
relationships with like um you know the men that he casually socialized with and
00:31:44
bars around Kensington who were also very surprised that he was just nowhere to be found right in midt like I said he
00:31:51
didn't have a lot of close friends but he did have acquaintances um in mid-september John Hay contacted
00:31:57
Donald's parents Amy and Donald Senor and he told them their son had quote gone up to Scotland to disappear and he
00:32:04
implied that he had done so to avoid the military draft uhhuh so since their son
00:32:09
had a recent history of draft dodging and no real interest in joining the military and had repeatedly expressed
00:32:16
this disinterest to them they believed they readily accepted this explanation without question and it was probably
00:32:20
easier to to accept than anything else yeah of course but the truth was something pretty imaginable in his
00:32:29
confession given to police later following his arrest John Hay claimed that one night in early September after
00:32:36
Donald and he had been drinking for several hours they returned to the workshop that John Hay had been renting
00:32:42
and he quote experienced a sudden need for blood what so he struck Donald Macwan
00:32:50
over the head with a piano leg and then slit his throat his friend who had been so good to him taking care of him and
00:32:57
given him job John then left Donald's body in the workshop overnight and returned the following day and then he
00:33:04
put his body into a 40 gallon metal drum and poured sulfuric acid over it until he was fully
00:33:11
submerged 2 days later he said that the body had been reduced to a foul smelling
00:33:16
blackish porridge streaked with blood my God he said he was then able to dump that blackish porridge streak with blood
00:33:25
into a nearby manhole drain and he was gone just to think that he could do that to somebody who he had
00:33:33
known for so many years and bonded with like just make them completely disappear
00:33:40
yep because you wanted to you just needed you you quote unquote needed to what the [ __ ] yeah and now that Donald
00:33:49
is dead murdered and his disappearance is explained away to his parents right now hey then continued writing several
00:33:57
letters to Donald's parents posing as him oh that's sick yep in the letters where and he posted them from Scotland
00:34:06
to keep up the whole Roose that he was in Scotland he explained that he wanted to transfer his properties to his friend
00:34:12
John Haye stop it and he wanted John Haye to look after them until he could return to
00:34:19
England wow with no reason to doubt this because he was a good friend Donald's parents didn't object to this is like
00:34:28
saltburn it really is it truly is actually yes now in the summer of the following year the war had started a
00:34:35
wind down and was kind of coming to an end and the MC swans assumed their son would be coming back from Scotland
00:34:41
because he wouldn't be worried about the draft anymore but fearing that his murder might finally be discovered John
00:34:48
called The Mix swans and told them that Donald was finally coming home and wanted to get together with them as soon
00:34:56
as he arrived and in a letter sent from Scotland he posed as Donald their son and arranged to have Donald senior and
00:35:05
Amy Donald's parents come to his basement workshop on Gloucester Street on July 2nd and they were so excited to
00:35:12
see their son again of course they were so they were like of course we'll meet you yeah on the night of the 2 they
00:35:18
arrived at the workshop and they were met by John Haye and he said oh of course Donald's inside but he said you
00:35:25
should come inside separately not at the same time because we don't want to arouse any suspicions because you know
00:35:30
like Donald's still technically on the lamb here he's a draft Dodger so like we don't want to make anybody think that
00:35:37
you're coming to see them and it's not going to be suspicious if one of us just hangs out outside yeah no this made
00:35:43
sense to them at the time and again they have no reason to not trust John Haye who was a friend and a future uh
00:35:53
previous employee yeah so hey LED Donald senior inside and down into the basement
00:35:59
workshop and after they went into the basement uh John Hay closed the door behind them and before anything else
00:36:06
happened hay struck him on the back of the head with an iron bar and killed him instantly holy [ __ ] he then hid his body
00:36:14
somewhere out of view oh my God and then escorted Amy mix Swan into the same basement and did the exact same thing to
00:36:22
her oh that's so sad both of them were dead within minutes yeah now with they're both dead he ripped them of all
00:36:28
their values any objects that he thought either he could sell he could keep or objects that he believed would survive
00:36:36
um dissolving in the acid what the [ __ ] he kept them all and then he dissected
00:36:42
their bodies cut them into pieces piled them into large steel a large steel bathtub together that he had placed in
00:36:49
the corner of this basement and over the next 3 days the remains of the mix swans
00:36:55
were left to dissolve in a Sol ution of sulfuric and hydrochloric acid holy [ __ ]
00:37:01
and once they were completely dissolved he dumped their remains down the drain in the center of the same floor in the
00:37:08
basement oh my God yeah all just for some properties yep for money now during a later interrogation
00:37:19
detectives asked John Hay if the MC swans had like easily and readily accepted your story about their son's
00:37:26
disappearance why would you kill them like they weren't even asking you yeah like they weren't suspecting thought he
00:37:32
was alive in in Scotland like they accepted what you said and now it was like you could have just got away with
00:37:37
that and they would have thought he just ran to Scotland and they couldn't get hold of him again yeah and he said for
00:37:44
the same reason I got rid of Mack which he was referring to Donald Jr that's a nickname okay he said I needed the money
00:37:50
and they had a few properties between them so he just wanted more property wanted more and more money
00:37:56
yeah okay and yes in the days that followed he forged a power of attorney document the [ __ ] giving himself full
00:38:04
control of all the mixw swan's assets and then he sold them all whoa and he sold all their belongings all their
00:38:12
valuables and he also left a note for the couple's landlordy landlordy why do I say that every time it always happens
00:38:21
every time it's actually very funny I think it's better I mean it is landlordy no the couple land lady and let her know
00:38:30
that they had quote gone away to America and didn't know when they'd be back all
00:38:34
right yep now Amy and Donald mwan also had very few close friends and no close relations around and I'm sure he knew
00:38:44
that yeah of course he admits that later uh so no one really noticed when they disappeared and honestly they they left
00:38:52
a note saying that they went to America so everyone was just like okay yeah if you're not super close with people the
00:38:56
profits from the sale of the family's properties and valuables let uh John Haye quit his job I mean yeah he got to
00:39:03
quit his job and it really funded a very increasingly lavish lifestyle over the next two years that he was not going to
00:39:09
be willing to give up I'm sure nope and this included taking a room at the enlo court hotel which was like expensive big
00:39:17
deal now despite this big sum of money from the mwan estate that he literally just stole after he murdered them all
00:39:24
the entire family mhm um John hey continued to experiment with different scams and fraud schemes during this
00:39:31
whole period including one where he posed as a fake patent liaison officer and even opened up an office in
00:39:38
Kensington under this fake the like [ __ ] whole thing but none of his fraud schemes really like they gave him some
00:39:45
money but they weren't lucrative enough to keep up the lifestyle that he was becoming used to right and by 1947 he
00:39:52
found himself pretty desperately in need of money again to keep it going and he had absolutely no int of earning it the
00:39:58
right way yeah I'm sure yeah so in the fall of 1947 he came across a property listing for a property in lad broke lad
00:40:06
broke square and he was like you know what I want to buy that so he couldn't come up with the money at the time but
00:40:12
like whatever but he kept inou yeah who needs that but he kept in touch with the
00:40:17
owners Dr archabald Archie Henderson and his wife Rose oh archabald and Rose archabald and Rose at the time John Haye
00:40:26
did still have some money left from the mwan estate um so he wasn't like super desperate at this time he just knew it
00:40:32
was going to come to a point where he would be desperate yeah but and he just he was like I don't want to get to that
00:40:38
point so I'm going to try to come up with a scheme this time right uh so he kept he built a very close relationship
00:40:44
with the wealthy Hendersons Rosen archal and he kept it going kept it going shortly after meeting though Rose wrote
00:40:52
a letter to her brother and in it she said of the scores of stupid people I've met I've just been introduced to the
00:40:58
stupidest of them all I offered him 22 lad broke Square Lock Stock and Barrel for
00:41:05
8,750 pounds and he said that's too cheap but if you'll accept 10,500 it's a deal like he wanted he was like I'll pay
00:41:13
more meanwhile he didn't have that what the [ __ ] and in the response to that her
00:41:18
brother wrote and this this is chilling cuz her brother wrote when you meet a man who talks like that you should run
00:41:24
for your life yeah oh God now like Donald mwan Jr the Hendersons were very generous with people they
00:41:34
cared about they didn't hoard their wealth with their friends uh they're very generous hosts you know happy to
00:41:40
spend money on anybody including their newest like kind of acquaintance John hey and like hey Archie Henderson liked
00:41:48
to drink and gamble on the horses so they got along together they had fun yeah and so John Haye spent several
00:41:56
months getting super close to this couple gambling betting on the horses with Archie like spending time with him
00:42:04
knowing the whole time what he's going to do and by February 1948 none of his other schemes had managed to bring in
00:42:10
enough money like he was hoping so he was now behind on his rent and he was desperate oh no so after moving from his
00:42:19
tiny room after the mwan murders um John Hay had also moved his workshop and its
00:42:24
contents to a new space in nearby Crawley in mid-February he told Archie that he had some samples of a new
00:42:31
product he wanted to show him and thought maybe it would be a good investment Venture for Archie and Archie
00:42:37
loved an investment Venture so he was eager to hear about this and Archie agreed to go with John Hay to his
00:42:43
Workshop he was like hell yeah and he brought with him several hundred doar in cash oh go there uh given how accustomed
00:42:50
he was to the Finer Things in life one would assume the messy and unkempt state of this workshop and the surrounding
00:42:56
land might have triggered something of a a little bit of a confusion for Henderson but he was just too excited
00:43:02
about an investment opportunity and he was like whatever yeah you just bought it it's fine look at is not a big deal
00:43:08
once inside John Haye didn't waste any time from his pocket he pulled out a revolver that he had stolen from the
00:43:16
Henderson House stop a few days earlier and he shot Archie in the back of the head before the door had even closed
00:43:23
behind him God his own revolver with our now dead he stripped him of all the valuables on his body and
00:43:31
anything that he thought wouldn't dissolve in acid and things he could sell and he loaded his body into one of
00:43:36
the drums of acid that had arrived at the workshop a few days earlier so he had planned this all out now before this
00:43:44
this whole method of disposing of his victims had been very crude and very sloppy and very like chaotic yeah um but
00:43:53
this time he had prepared okay he had ordered the barrel ahead of time he had gotten the proper safety attire so while
00:44:00
he's doing this he's wearing an army issue gas mask to protect himself from the noxious fumes but how [ __ ]
00:44:08
terrifying is that visual uh very of him loading this man's body into an acid bath while wearing an army issue gas
00:44:16
mask sounds like a horror film it really does it like makes me think of like um uh repo the Genetic Opera yeah but once
00:44:25
Archie Henderson's body was fully emerged in the acid he sealed the lid and removed everything that he was
00:44:30
wearing and then he padlocked to the workshop and just left returned to town all right so John went back to the
00:44:37
Henderson's residence where Rose was waiting for her husband panicking I'm sure and he said Rose I'm so sorry
00:44:45
Archie had a heart attack okay and it's not looking good for him and she said he literally said
00:44:53
you're not to worry dear but I think it's best you come now and so she was very concerned and she
00:45:00
trusted this man so she agreed and left and they went to the workshop they got there very quickly and once they were in
00:45:06
the workshop John Hay pulled the gun out and shot her in the back of the head as
00:45:11
well and disposed of her Remains the exact same way that he disposed of her husband oh yeah I wasn't expecting that
00:45:19
yep when detectives asked asked if they would find any evidence of the Hendersons when they searched the
00:45:25
workshop John hey said just a bit of sludge oh and possibly a left foot I had a bit of trouble with
00:45:33
him that's so [ __ ] gross and crude and dark so dark like Beyond dark Sinister and these are people who he had
00:45:47
spent months cozying up to and spending time with and like having Leisure Time with and getting to know and that's wild
00:45:57
um it was during that same interview that John Haye continued to push this whole like Vampire killer Mythos that he
00:46:03
did where he said like I needed blood oh god um and he told the detectives I should have added that I took a glass of
00:46:09
blood from each of them as I did with each of the M swans doubt it nobody knows if he really did that or if he was
00:46:15
just pushing the insanity what the Press started doing once they found out that he had said he needed he had like a Lust
00:46:21
For Blood it also makes him sound insane exactly but like the M swans the Henderson were were like we said very
00:46:28
wealthy and had very little close relatives and close friends oh no and after putting Rose Henderson's body in
00:46:34
the acid Barrel John Haye returned to the hotel Metropole where the three of them had been staying and paid the bill
00:46:40
for all three of them using money he'd received from pawning Rose's jewelry right away wow and cash that he had
00:46:47
taken from Archie's body before putting him into the barrel once those things were all covered cuz he took care of all
00:46:54
the immediate stuff he started working on the longer thing he forged a power of attorney you gotta transferring their
00:47:01
assets all over to him and then he quickly sold all of them he also wrote A Few letters explaining their
00:47:07
disappearances and he sent those from various posts up and down the British Coast this guy is [ __ ] yeah he posed
00:47:15
as he would pose as either Archie or Rose in these letters and he explained that the couple had decided to do some
00:47:22
traveling they were going as far as South Africa and they were going to be gone for several months
00:47:27
and in fact that summer John Haye used the money that he got from killing them to take a trip to Vienna and South
00:47:35
Africa himself what the [ __ ] yep and while he was there he made sure to send some postcards to Rose's brother to keep
00:47:43
up the whole thing he sent them as Rose and he like he must figure out how to make his handwriting at least look
00:47:50
similar to these peoples yep and somebody mentions it later one of I believe Rose's friend it's either Rose
00:47:57
or the next woman um they say that when they got the handwriting it looked similar but it was bigger and it did
00:48:05
strike them as a little off but they didn't it wasn't off enough for them so he stud their
00:48:11
handwriting which is wild yeah so the money from the Henderson murders uh kept John Haye going for another two years
00:48:20
two years he didn't have to work uh by by the end of 1948 he found himself running a little low because he was uh
00:48:28
it's not like he was using that money wisely yeah um but he immediately started thinking about his next victim
00:48:35
cuz now it works that being the case it was definitely in his best um in his benefit that Oslo Court hotel where he
00:48:42
was staying had a ton of older wealthy people that were residents there and they loved him of course cuz he's a
00:48:50
charmer yeah he's younger relatively to them he's charismatic you know like he's
00:48:56
got all they love him and he's sucking up to them he's good at it in fact by the end of 1948 John Haye had already
00:49:03
been spending considerable time with 69-year-old Widow Olive Durant Deacon no she was a woman with tons of money I
00:49:13
mean she had more money than all of his victims combined oh God so Olive had been married for many years to a
00:49:18
military Colonel but he died on expectedly in 1938 and she was a widow much earlier than she'd expected to be
00:49:26
yeah and she was struggling with his loss I'm sure like she was genuinely grieving him yeah and she had massive
00:49:34
mou wealth mostly from like stockholdings so she's lonely and Wealthy yeah she's very wealthy she
00:49:39
would be financially secure for the rest of her life like she didn't have to worry about anything but she was
00:49:44
grieving yeah so after moving into the Onslow in 1943 she mostly just spent her days like socializing with the other
00:49:52
residents like just trying to like live her life like get fill it with some her HB um and recently Olive had started
00:49:59
spending her lunches with John ha she thought he was well-mannered very courteous and she described him at one
00:50:06
point as having a glint in his eye that makes him interesting wow by February 1949 John
00:50:14
Haye had once again found himself right at that desperations door yep he had made a lot of money from murdering the
00:50:22
Hendersons but he had also developed a very serious gambling Habit in the since that okay and unfortunately for him uh
00:50:30
he would lose a lot more than he would win he was a bad Gambler as well and also his bank account had been overdrawn
00:50:37
for several days at this point and he had fallen behind in rent so there we are uhhuh on the afternoon of February
00:50:44
14th yes Valentine's Day Hay found Olive and a friend eating lunch in the enlow's
00:50:50
dining room and walked up to them a few days earlier they had actually him and um Olive had been discussing an idea
00:50:58
that Olive had that Olive had come up with for artificial fingernails oh [ __ ] like she had like
00:51:05
come up with this idea and she had brought him a prototype wow like she was like oh cuz also she probably thinks he
00:51:11
could have get V her a patent yeah exactly and she's sitting here thinking like you know what I know I'm like super
00:51:17
wealthy but like I'm going to keep thinking of ways to just like get through this grieving process and if
00:51:22
using my brain does that then why not and she's 69 and just like coming up and she gave him the prototype in a
00:51:29
small tin box and this was exactly the opportunity he needed to lure her to the workshop that he had rented so he wasted
00:51:39
no time he told her he could be of great value in this new Venture and they made
00:51:44
a plan to get together at the end of the week later after his arrest he told police she was inv vagled into going to
00:51:51
Crawley by me in view of her interest in artificial fingernails it's like tempted
00:51:56
invel is a a very interesting word for like being led yeah like deceived now on the morning of February 18th John drove
00:52:05
with olive to his Workshop in Crawley and as always Olive was very impeccably and you know probably overdressed for
00:52:14
the occasion she was wearing a Persian lamb coat and loaded with diamond and gold jewelry Queen and along the way
00:52:21
they talked about Olive's business idea and John Haye told her he had actually developed a special kind of paper that
00:52:28
he thinks could be used in this whole process in the development so they're like buddies here yeah once they got to
00:52:34
the workshop he led olive inside and this time though he didn't just immediately kill her uh instead he
00:52:41
pulled two pieces of red paper from his briefcase and put them in front of Olive
00:52:45
and kept the roost going like this is the paper take a look at it see if this is the kind of thing you're looking for
00:52:51
yeah so she bent down to get a closer look at the paper and he reached into a hat box that he bought from the brought
00:52:57
from the car pulled out the revolver that he'd stolen and used on the Hendersons and just as Olive was about
00:53:04
to turn around and say something he raised the gun to the back of her head and pulled the trigger and she died
00:53:10
instantly so Olive is now been murdered and John Haye started his routine of removing every valuable piece that is on
00:53:18
her and that was a lot yeah uh once he'd removed it all he decided he didn't actually he was so
00:53:24
excited that yeah so excited that he just couldn't wait to find out what the total would be when he pawned all this
00:53:31
stuff so he left Olive's body in the workshop and then took everything to the pawn shop and Crawley and sold all the
00:53:37
jewelry in the coat while her body still lay in his Workshop how [ __ ] does this
00:53:42
dude wasted no time my God and I'm assuming these are like Pro some of these things are like one-of a kind pie
00:53:49
so it's like I'm sure so he's getting [ __ ] tons of money too and I'm just like
00:53:52
waiting for the pond person to be like why do you keep coming in here yeah yeah exactly but they don't okay they don't
00:53:58
ask questions just here's the money so he's got a ton of cash now and he goes back to the workshop and he puts Olive's
00:54:05
body into a 40 gallon barrel he' purchased a few days earlier and he covered her body with sulfuric and
00:54:11
hydrochloric acid mixture and then sealed the barrel and headed back to London now in the past John Haye like
00:54:19
you had mentioned he had chosen victims with very few social connections right or people that would like you could make
00:54:27
up a good story to say where they had gone yeah um any questions that remained for those people of like where they were
00:54:34
even if time had gone by or the Roose had gone like you know fiddled on he would still be able to avoid any of
00:54:42
those questions or dismiss them for like a long time especially with some well-timed and well-placed forged
00:54:48
letters to distant family members this time though he was too desperate and he acted too impulsively because it was
00:54:56
true that Olive was a widow and had no children but she had lived for years at Eno she had made several close friends
00:55:04
and one of those close friends wondering where she is exactly and one of those very close friends was constant
00:55:10
Lane another great name yeah const low that sounds like a like a great summer be treed it does actually or good pen
00:55:21
name yes now on Saturday February 19th constant was eating eating breakfast at the enow and she was like why hasn't
00:55:29
Olive come down for breakfast Oh Olive was very routine she was very predicable she liked to be on her schedule so this
00:55:36
was very out of character and as far as constant knew her friend hadn't been planning to go away on any trip she
00:55:42
would have let her know yeah so she could only assume that Olive was sick so she was worried so after finishing her
00:55:48
breakfast she went up to Olive's room and found a chambermaid to open the door but she found that no one was inside and
00:55:55
that it also looked like no one had slept in the room the previous night so constant waited another day to see if
00:56:01
con if Olive would show up but she didn't show up on and on the 20th she reported her missing and all her things
00:56:08
are just still in this room at theel ex now under normal circumstances here The Disappearance of an adult without any
00:56:14
signs of f Foul Play would probably be low priority M but olive was a very wealthy woman yeah and Constance was a
00:56:22
very wealthy woman get she's getting the double time here so police went to the Eno immediately and started questioning
00:56:28
the residents but it seems that none of the residents had a lot of information on where Olive could be but the hotel's
00:56:34
manager mentioned to officer sergeant lamborne that one of their other residents John Hay had been late with
00:56:42
his rent recently and that was unusual uhhuh and Lamborn had encountered John Haye during this whole thing at one
00:56:49
point and actually immediately disliked liked him which was not the normal reaction to John Haye somebody had an
00:56:56
intuition exactly later she would tell a reporter she quote and maybe cuz she's a
00:57:02
lady detective she said she would she instantly distrusted the smug and Spivy and Spivy
00:57:09
hay yeah she was like I don't like him right from the jump and this new information only made her more
00:57:14
suspicious of him like oh okay so he's laid on his rent yeah so while police started kept quietly investigating
00:57:22
Olive's disappearance a few days after her murder the story actually made it to the London newspapers oh wow one article
00:57:29
said last night an official at Scotland Yard state state that the police had been unable to trace a single person who
00:57:35
had seen Mrs Duran Deacon since she left the hotel the paper also noted that Olive rarely left the hotel at all right
00:57:42
but on this occasion she quote was going with Mr hay to visit a factory in Crawley while it was true that
00:57:49
detectives at Scotland Yard hadn't zered in on any suspect thanks to Sergeant lamb Bourne our girl there they had now
00:57:56
been informed of the officer's suspicions about hey so they had started investigating him yes and they paid him
00:58:03
a visit at the Eno oh let's go so for sergeant lambourne and the detectives at Scotland Yard a theory had started to
00:58:10
develop with a within a few days of the missing report uh in that time they learned that hay had an extensive
00:58:17
criminal history and a pris jail multiple times prison record and the fact that Olive had last been seen in
00:58:24
his company before she disa appeared is a pretty big deal and then they learned that he had been late with his rent
00:58:30
several times recently but that that wasn't the norm before this and then suddenly he had paid all his back rent
00:58:38
with one large check huh imagine that so when they first interviewed John Haye at
00:58:44
the hotel he explained that he had gone with olive that day but he had dropped her off in town and then they' plann to
00:58:50
meet a few hours later in front of the army navy store but she just never showed up okay so after uncovering this
00:58:56
lengthy criminal record of his detectives returned to John Hay but he just repeated the same story about her
00:59:02
not showing up and that he was so concerned when she didn't show up and in fact after he was arrested detectives
00:59:09
would comment about how unusually eager he seemed to locate her and that only made them more suspicious of him they
00:59:15
were like you're you're overacting it this is bizarre this isn't genuine despite his story investigators traced
00:59:22
hay to the rented Workshop in Crawley and they forced their way in side and there they discovered a bizarre setup of
00:59:30
barrels and chemicals but it would be some sometime after that that they would learn what the purpose of these were
00:59:36
they just thought it was weird yeah among the belongings at the shop they also discovered a revolver the same one
00:59:43
he had used to kill the Hendersons and Olive and most importantly they discovered a receipt from Cottage
00:59:51
cleaners for one Persian lamb coat he had it cleaned before mhm based on the evidence collected at the workshop
01:00:00
police arrested John Hay on February 29 28th 1949 and charged him with the murder of olive Duran Deacon by that
01:00:10
time they had the receipt for the coat they had a bunch of other compelling evidence including the receipts from the
01:00:14
pawn shop where John Haye had sold his victim's belongings dude but when they asked Haye about the items found in the
01:00:21
workshop and all the other evidence against him he was like I don't know I don't know anything I feel like you dude
01:00:27
luckily that didn't last long little by little they were able to pull it all out
01:00:32
of him at first he claimed to be a victim of blackmail and he said he hadn't said anything about that because
01:00:38
quote he knew other people would be dragged into the investigation sure but that story just
01:00:43
fell the [ __ ] apart because he was unable to come with lit literally any details about that yeah like he said
01:00:50
that hoped it would fly and they were like give me one more piece of information about that and he's like
01:00:56
don't have it like I don't know I don't I don't have it I didn't mean it so then
01:00:59
seemingly aware that he had been caught in a lie he turned to one of the detectives and said tell me frankly what
01:01:05
are the chances of anyone being released from Broadmore which is um an institution yes
01:01:11
so he was like could I potentially be released out of there if I got put there like he just
01:01:17
asked just out of the blue know before he says anything else totally unrelated question hey I was thinking the other
01:01:23
day hypothetically would anybody be released there so recognizing that he was trapped he seemingly gave up the
01:01:30
charade and started confessing while laying the groundwork for an insanity defense of course when
01:01:36
asked directly about what happened to Olive he said I've destroyed her with acid you'll find the sludge that remains
01:01:42
at Leopold Road road every Trace has gone how can you prove murder murder if there's no body oh that's so sad yeah
01:01:49
I've destroyed her with acid is what he said and just when you really think about what he did with all these people
01:01:55
like there's no part of them there's nothing left of them like that's so and he poured them down sewer
01:02:01
drains that's gnarly so sad it's so dark it's like Unthinkable yeah John Haye had
01:02:11
spent most of his life like he's very much a narcissist and he spent most of his life with a belief that he was the
01:02:18
most intelligent in the room at any given time and he demonstrated that in every single con job he pulled off every
01:02:25
single fraud he pulled off and with the murders of the M swans Hendersons and all of Duran Deacon mean was proved to
01:02:32
him multiple times that he wasn't as smart as he thought because he got caught in almost every actually all of
01:02:38
the schemes that he did exactly but he thought with these murders he got away with the Perfect Crime because he
01:02:44
figured out a way to get rid of the bodies yes but like most narcissist he overplayed his hand he assuming he
01:02:54
assumed that they never build a case again against him because again no bodies what are you going to do y but
01:02:59
John Haye became surprisingly eager to Aid in the investigation because again he's very he's very confident that he's
01:03:06
going to get away with this but also like many killers he misunderstood the law great he misunderstood Corpus deti
01:03:14
the provision of the law that stipulates there must be evidence in order to Prov
01:03:18
prove a crime has been committed it doesn't require a body to prove a murder yes it only requires evidence that the
01:03:25
murder occurred in this case there was [ __ ] tons of biological material that could be traced
01:03:31
back to Olive and would conclusively confirm that she died in that Workshop yep also there was a growing number of
01:03:39
circumstantial evidence that tied hate to the murder including receipts and eyewitness accounts receipts proof
01:03:46
screenshots timelines there you go there's T there's all of it so in order to build an airtight case investigators
01:03:54
brought in Dr keth Samson which was one of Scotland yard's most highly regarded Pathologists while examining one of the
01:04:01
barrels in the workshop he said he quote Unearthed with a stick from a mass of whitish material just inside the factory
01:04:09
Gates a piece of red plastic material later this material would be confirmed to be a piece of Olive's red leather
01:04:17
handbag oh that's so sad hey had thrown it into the barrel along with Olive's body assuming it would be destroyed by
01:04:25
acid it did not eventually investigators would haul away more than 475 lbs of material holy [ __ ] two
01:04:34
additional barrels 28 lbs of fat 18 pieces of bone and one set of dentures that would be a match of those created
01:04:43
for all of Duran Deacon wow that's incredible years later in his autobiography Keith Samson the
01:04:51
pathologist wrote despite whatever John Haye might have thought Hay's labors had
01:04:55
been in vain the remains of Mrs Duran Deacon were identified as surely as if her body had never been in that acid
01:05:02
Beth and I was like wow hell yeah they were oh my that was all of working from Beyond with all the other victims I
01:05:10
totally believe it and also like Keith [ __ ] Samson that pathologist did his [ __ ] job Inc made sure
01:05:20
every piece of biological material that they could trace back here you go was found like he was like oh you think
01:05:26
you're smart you think you can [ __ ] with me like he like make people disa like
01:05:32
get out of here like I love that I love that he was like I you think you have bested me with this [ __ ] you think
01:05:39
you're the smartest guy in the room you can't get rid of that you can't get rid of all of it you idiot so within days of
01:05:46
his arrest investigators had been working through Hayes belongings at the workshop and his room in the at the Eno
01:05:53
and they started finding evidence of Hayes other Mur murders oh no neither the Henderson nor the MC swans had been
01:05:59
reported missing to the police right but when detectives followed up on the latest leads they learned that all five
01:06:05
of them had connections to John Haye and none of them had been seen or heard from
01:06:10
in a long time also friends and family members of the Henderson started coming forward with the letters and postcards
01:06:17
that they got yeah this was the one I was talking about before Rose Henderson's friend Daisy Round Tree told
01:06:23
a reporter she kept the correspondence because quote the handwriting is bigger than that in which Mrs Henderson wrote
01:06:30
Bo she thought it was unusual as the evidence against him kept growing John Haye finally confessed to
01:06:37
the additional murders of the mixw swans and the Henderson and this set the stage
01:06:41
for one of the most Sensational trials England had seen in several years oh I bet so it's clear from his confession
01:06:49
that John Haye had intended to pursue an insanity defense once it went to trial yeah he basically came up
01:06:56
yeah and once that confession was leaked to the press the case blew up in the media and it was in large part because
01:07:01
of the very maob details that he would later elaborate on and use in in Aid of his defense yeah among other things the
01:07:09
admission that he had drained his victims of their blood which he later drank he said led to his being labeled a
01:07:17
Vampire killer in the Press I don't believe it I don't think I believe it in order to build his own lore and
01:07:23
mythology too he added to that Legend and claimed quote he had been drinking his own urine since he was a boy no
01:07:31
which I was like maybe he was like No it should be noted though that despite what
01:07:35
was written about him in the papers and what he told reporters there's a lot of skepticism when it comes to these claims
01:07:41
like a lot of people don't believe this it's never been proven um and in fact during the trial he was examined by
01:07:48
several medical and mental health professionals and quote all of them stated that hay was probably
01:07:54
malingering there it is in other words the general consensus was that he was a consumate liar who Twisted the truth
01:07:59
whenever it benefited him right and there was no reason to believe that it that this was any different than what he
01:08:05
did his whole life now in the months following his arrest investigators spent a ton of time and effort building their
01:08:10
case against him and hay himself kept fueling the speculation of journalists with his like crazy outrageous claims of
01:08:18
insatiable blood lust and in his private letters though he was uh showing the real motives for his murders in a letter
01:08:26
to his friend Barbara Stevens he wrote he responded to her question about why he never tried to kill her yeah by
01:08:32
calling her foolish for asking and then ensuring her he could never harm her didn't have enough money which of course
01:08:40
the Hendersons had also been Hay's friends very close to him and so had the mix swans and so had allive Duran Deacon
01:08:46
but the only difference here was those people were incredibly wealthy and Stevens had nothing more than friendship
01:08:53
exactly that's it she had nothing she couldn't give him anything exactly and there it is that's the difference of
01:08:58
course I would never hurt you you can't offer me anything now John Hayes grand jury trial
01:09:04
began April 1st 1949 April Fool's Day during which the prosecution on behalf of the crown EG Roby gave his opening
01:09:13
statement he said could there be any doubt that on February 18th John Haye killed Mrs Duran Deacon with a revolver
01:09:20
and disposed of her body and acid and that was a rhetorical question that he asked the jury uh but ensured them that
01:09:26
he would demonstrate his guilt was beyond Reasonable Doubt following these opening remarks Roby began laying out
01:09:32
the evidence against hay and showing his connection to the missing Widow and emphasized the whole financial part of
01:09:38
this thing that she was incredibly wealthy he was going through vast financial troubles and was in Dire
01:09:45
Straits motive yep and was like oh there's also this uh confession that he gave So speaking on Hay's behalf though
01:09:54
his attorney declined to enter a plea and instead requested that a speedy trial be held at the Old Bailey which
01:10:01
we've we've seen the old Bailey a few times on this show he said the view taken is that this is such an
01:10:07
exceptional case that no objection would be raised if the magistrates committed for trial at the Old Bailey and the
01:10:13
magistrates didn't object to the request and the trial date was set for Mid July
01:10:16
at the Old Bailey so the trial opened on I just love Old Bailey that's why laughing I love Old Bailey Old Bailey
01:10:24
yeah you know Old Bailey so Hayes trial started on July 18th 1949 at Old Bailey uh in his opening statement to the
01:10:32
prosecution or the prosecution sir Harley shawcross told the jury this was a clear case of carefully premeditated
01:10:38
murder for gain correct and he explained that contrary to The Sensational details
01:10:44
reported in the Press John ha's crimes had been motivated purely by greed because he's a piece of [ __ ] it has
01:10:50
nothing to do with blood lust no so Hayes defense attorney David fry rejected the Crown's theory that hey had
01:10:57
killed purely because of financial gain um he said in a statement at the proper time evidence will be led with the
01:11:03
intention of showing that the accused was insane so as not to be responsible for his ACT spoiler alert they will not
01:11:10
show that uh to support their claims the defense brought in Dr Henry yellow Le a
01:11:16
quote unquote mental specialist quote un examined he on at least five occasions according to Dr Henry here for most of
01:11:25
his life John Hay had been having a recurring dream he called this dream the dream of the bleeding Christ and in this
01:11:32
dream hey could see the head and sometimes the body of Christ on the cross cross on cross with blood pouring
01:11:41
from his wounds uhhuh this Dr Henry yellow Le argued was the beginning of a paranoid delusion that would eventually
01:11:48
lead hay to develop a secret double life and thirst for blood I think that's just
01:11:52
a nightmare it's like he grew up we all have them very stringently and strictly and isolating religious he might have
01:12:01
one of those dreams every once in a while exactly but when asked directly about whether this particular delusion
01:12:07
would render the accused completely incapable of recognizing that his actions you know Murder and dissolving
01:12:13
Bodies In Action were acid were illegal um he said no no okay no he said uh quote he knew quite well that to kill
01:12:22
a person was a crime I would say cool cool cool then what are you doing here and so the judge said so he did he knew
01:12:29
quite well that to kill a person was a crime and the doctor said yes I think he used the phrase punishable by law all
01:12:35
right so he was like yeah he actually told me he did then you can go now sir knew that he it was a it was a crime
01:12:41
punishable by law thank you for your time I guess thank you Dr Henry uh so Hayes defense of insanity depended
01:12:47
largely on the rumors about his supposed uh vampirism that had been circulating all around the Press uh but they were
01:12:54
aided by the fact that hey did in fact exhibit signs of mental illness or maybe a personality disorder that allowed him
01:13:00
to kill without hesitation and seemingly for very Petty reasons with not a lot of
01:13:05
remorse okay but as is often the case mental illness or a personality disorder alone doesn't mean one is incapable of
01:13:14
recognizing that this act or behavior is outside the bounds of the law right there's a difference in the case of John
01:13:21
Hay forensic psychologist Katherine ramsland argued that ha defense was entirely fabricated and built on lies
01:13:28
she said while there were no real instruments available during Hay's TR time for the assessment of mingering he
01:13:34
presents several classic signs uh among those she lists that hay had some exposure to mentally ill people and
01:13:42
would have known how to fake certain symptoms he had watched them it's exactly what you had said look at me
01:13:48
when you said it I was like that's going to come back hi and that the symptoms he
01:13:51
did fake and the stories he told were also inconsistent so they didn't even fit with each other right the judge in
01:13:58
this case was of similar opinion and when none of the psychologists or psychiatrist would confirm that John
01:14:04
Haye was insane at the time of Olive's murder he rejected the insanity plea altogether there it is in his jury
01:14:10
instructions on no on July 20th Justice humph told the jury they were not trying
01:14:15
to question whether the man was sane or insane only whether he had murdered all of Duran Deacon and as to that question
01:14:23
humph reminded the jury that John Haye had confessed to this crime several times exactly the jury deliberated for
01:14:31
less than 20 minutes I believe that before finding John Haye guilty of Olive's murder hell yeah and Justice
01:14:39
Humphrey sentenced John Haye to death let's go when he was asked whether he had anything to say on his own behalf
01:14:46
quote hey put his head slightly on one side his hands clasped behind his back smiled faintly and replied none at all
01:14:55
oh what a little [ __ ] and he did so in a clear rather high pitched voice so he
01:15:00
said none at all weird and everybody said [ __ ] off I don't like it in the days that followed
01:15:07
hay would make a lot of use of that journalistic Spotlight that he found himself under and he claimed to have
01:15:13
killed an additional three people that they didn't even know about uh no evidence of those murders was found but
01:15:19
who know it was in the 19 you know 40s at this point who knows yeah on the morning of August 20th 1949 a crowd of
01:15:27
nearly 200 people damn assembled at the Gate of Wandsworth prison to be present for John ha's execution shortly after
01:15:35
9:00 a.m. John George hay was executed by hanging a few minutes later a man walked to the gate of w Wandsworth read
01:15:42
the notice confirming the death and the crowd which was now nearly 500 people damn cheered cheered and that is the end
01:15:50
of John George Haye the Acid Bath murderer that was a cuckoo story yeah he's also known as the vampire murderer
01:15:59
although I think that's fake I also think that's fake I think the other title is uh more accurate yeah but that
01:16:06
was really sad and I didn't want any of those people to die yeah the MC swans the Henderson and olives Olive none of
01:16:13
them the fact that he got close to these people made friends with them got to know them formed a bond with them and
01:16:20
then did something so heinous and just violated their bodies afterwards in such a way and disregarded
01:16:29
them like like you would disregard you know Bacon Fat after cooking it is Unthinkable like it really is UN he's
01:16:38
a [ __ ] up individual and he's dead and there's that there's that so we hope you
01:16:45
keep listening we do and we hope you it but not so weird that you make friends with people and then uh dissolve
01:16:52
them in acid just to take their money because you could just get a job don't keep it that weird at all thanks thank
01:17:01
you [Music] [Music]