00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid this is morbid and um it's before
00:00:28
Thanksgiving but for you guys it's after Thanksgiving I think isn't that weird so we have not given thanks yet
00:00:37
thank you um but because you have uh I hope you had fun yes and I hope you ate all kinds of yummy food o scrum didly
00:00:46
umptious I'm salivating just thinking of our food that we're going to eat and we're thankful for you yeah we love you
00:00:52
we'll be thankful for you thank you for being our listeners yeah we'll stay thankful for you it'll be a whole thing
00:01:00
it's going to be a whole thing guys it's so beautiful you know what I'm thankful
00:01:03
for sushi there you go I just had some good for you man and you had a strawberry
00:01:10
Hostess cupcake I did have you guys tried those I didn't know they existed she broke it out and it's me her and
00:01:17
Mikey in the Pod lab today and she said we can split this into three and I said No need no need to you can split that in
00:01:22
half and you the journey with me you did that's cute it wasn't bad it was just one of those things that you're like all
00:01:27
right yeah okay I felt like it wouldn't mix well with my Sushi and dumplings probably not I was like I think I'll try
00:01:34
that at a later date if ever that's a great I think you should try it cuz I think you might be pleasantly surprised
00:01:39
okay but not with sushi right now I'm in a place of those little Debbie um brownie Christmas tree things cakes oh
00:01:49
yeah like not I don't I'm actually not a big fan don't you say it I'm not Christmas tree cakes I don't like
00:01:58
too much frosting and the middle is sometimes too much for me and I'm I fear that you're going to throw something at
00:02:07
me I like I like the brownie better doesn't John also yeah and both of you can get the [ __ ] out of here but your
00:02:16
shenanigans that just means more for you it sure does my kids like the the vanilla ones with me I you know what I
00:02:23
don't dislike them like I'll eat one every now and again but if I like if I had to pick like on a desert on a desert
00:02:29
an island like you can only have one brownies all the way I hate that I'd also pick brownies over cake like in
00:02:36
general wow yeah this is like I'm feeling so betrayed Lately from from my the people I love the most who what they
00:02:45
love and what they don't love why what else happened cuz you just said that and then John We were finishing up follow
00:02:52
the House of Usher oh TV the other night of Mike Flanigan I would to watch that and he was like yeah I'm I'm not like
00:03:00
really into this and I was like I'm sorry what and he wasn't into midnight mass either and he was like and then he
00:03:06
said the words and Mike Flanigan if you're listening he does he didn't mean it Mike Flanigan if you're listening you
00:03:12
have a fan in this house it's me John but John was like yeah I don't know if I really like Mike Flanigan's stuff and I
00:03:19
was like I don't know how to accept that did you say I don't know who you even are I'm just not sure how you watch two
00:03:28
things with Kate in it yeah that is made by Mike Flanigan you said two things with Kate Kate seagull Kate okay his
00:03:38
wife who's in both of them okay who's a phenomenal actress she's just chef's kiss and tell me you don't you're not
00:03:46
really into them I don't understand that that way of living we're going to we're
00:03:51
going to try again because I refuse to accept it so I think I'm to forc him to watch follow that syester again you know
00:03:57
what though I feel like that would be akin to Drew turning to me and telling me that he didn't like Bravo all of a
00:04:01
sudden and i' kick him out of our house it's rough and then you sit here and you
00:04:06
tell me I didn't say you do not appreciate no no no the vanilla Christmas tree you at one point you said
00:04:12
I don't really like them you said those words Hur you yeah you quoted me correctly the second time around no I
00:04:19
shouldn't say I don't really like them I just don't prefer them I prefer my my preference is the brownies you know
00:04:28
right in what's your preference we'll do a social media poll oh Lord is like no like no I'll lose
00:04:35
America's sweetheart will win the brownie Crusade that's fine more for me like you said exactly like you said like
00:04:41
I said like I I said it I said it all right I think that was an unhinged enough intro I do want to see fall of
00:04:49
Fall of the House of Usher follow of the House of Usher I highly recommend it guys if you haven't watched it I'll wait
00:04:54
to watch it with you it's a banger of a miniseries it's only eight episodes oh he is Mike Flanigan's brilliant and so
00:05:03
is his wife I'm willing to try his stuff I I don't think I've ever seen any I think you would dig it I really do
00:05:10
I'm I feel like we usually have I wouldn't say similar taste because you don't like the things that I love but I
00:05:16
but I feel like you TV show wise I'm saying he he just has a way and he and the atmosphere that he creates in his
00:05:24
shows and movies I think you will appreciate a big way I've seen the trailer of um Fall of the House of Usher
00:05:30
I was feel like I'm going to say it wrong uh and I liked I liked the trailer I was intrigued I think you'd be into it
00:05:36
but I don't think Drew would like it and that's tough because we watch TV together and right now if you're a Bravo
00:05:41
head oh my God all the shows of Ron honey all of them Real House Wives of Beverly Hills just came back first
00:05:49
episode absolutely obsessed I do not condone smoking unless your name is D kempley have you seen the picture of her
00:05:56
lighting up a Virginia slim and just driving around no she is she's like going through a divorce and it gets
00:06:02
outed and she's getting chased by Paparazzi and she just lights up a Virginia slim and everybody knew that D
00:06:08
smoked like she's been caught by Paparazzi before but she's never done it on the show and she she just had such a
00:06:13
[ __ ] it moment yeah she doesn't give a [ __ ] it was iconic it was the smoke herd
00:06:17
around the world but there you go don't smoke it kills it does so anyway I think
00:06:22
I said that was chaotic enough of an intro but then I made it more chaotic I love that well now we're going to get on
00:06:27
to the case this case is absolutely Bonkers from start to finish oh I'm excited yeah I will let you know like
00:06:36
right off the top right off the top of this uh it's very brutal in the beginning but you're here it's called
00:06:42
morbid it is so this is the murder of Carol Thompson and it all started on the morning of March 6th
00:06:49
1963 Ruth Nelson was just sitting in her living room in her St Paul Minnesota home she was catching up on the morning
00:06:55
news and she heard what sounded like somebody lightly knocking on her front door so she went to the door and she
00:07:02
peeled peered through the small window and she couldn't see anybody but she decided that she should just open the
00:07:07
door to be sure and when she opened the door she saw that lying at the foot of the steps was her neighbor 34-year-old
00:07:15
Carol Thompson who lived just a couple houses down temperatures that morning were freezing but Carol was only wearing
00:07:22
a light robe she had no shoes on and the upper part of her body from her head to
00:07:26
her chest was absolutely drenched in Blood and Carol looked up and in a voice just above a whisper she looked at Ruth
00:07:34
and said help me oh that's so haunting and she's like Ruth has just started her morning just you know probably made a
00:07:40
cup of coffee watching the news Jes and opens her door up to like her beloved neighbor too they were close and only 34
00:07:47
years old yeah super young neighbor so Ruth called out to her husband and son who were still home they had been in the
00:07:53
kitchen and they moved Carol inside the house laying her gently on their rug and
00:07:57
while Harry Nelson ran to call the police Ruth and her son just tried to comfort Carol however they could oh [ __ ]
00:08:03
and one of the two ended up asking Carol what happened who had somebody attacked
00:08:07
her who had and in a faint voice that suggested she was losing Consciousness really quickly she answered a man did it
00:08:14
and Ruth asked what the man's name was and she thought that Carol said Johnson but by then Carol like could hardly
00:08:21
speak even so she was just speaking over a whisper so Ruth would never be quite sure what the name was now moments later
00:08:28
another neighbor Dr Fritz Pearson arrived his wife had been watching everything that morning through their
00:08:34
living room window and suggested that he go over to help because she was like something is like very wrong over there
00:08:40
yeah so Pearson instructed the Nelson's son to go get some wet towels and he carefully started wiping away copious
00:08:47
amounts of blood it was clear to everyone that somebody had attacked Carol and had beat her really badly
00:08:53
about the face and head which is where they assumed that the blood was coming from but when Carol dropped her her hand
00:08:59
away from her neck Dr Pearson noticed a large Stab Wound and it seemed as though
00:09:05
that the broken knife blade was actually still in bedded into her neck oh my God
00:09:09
yeah Ruth Nelson later said I know Carol very well but her face was covered with
00:09:13
so much blood that even I didn't recognize her that's horrific so Harry Nelson's call to the St Paul police came
00:09:19
in to dispatch at about 9:07 a.m. just think of how early first thing in the morning at which point he reported only
00:09:26
that his wife had discovered a quote badly injured lady on their doorstep and just that they needed help immediately
00:09:32
it's unclear what sergeants John Mardo and Roy Shepard were really expecting when they got to the scene but whatever
00:09:38
it was it was not really likely that they had pictured just a housewife a neighbor just drenched in blood yeah
00:09:45
later Mardo wrote in his report the wounds were small and appeared to be stab wounds but in truth Carol had been
00:09:51
injured so badly that it was impossible to tell where all the blood was coming from she had so many wounds so as Dr
00:09:58
Pearson continued Prov first aid the officers tried to get any information out of Carol herself but by then she was
00:10:05
barely conscious and she wasn't able to communicate at all so it was Ruth Nelson
00:10:10
who explained how she came to found Carol that morning but nobody had any idea what happened to her like how she
00:10:15
got that way yeah can you imagine just finding someone like that you have no clue what happened no and she can't tell
00:10:20
you that's the worst part so the ambulance arrives or arrived a few minutes later and the EMTs were directed
00:10:26
inside and in their report one of the em te's described the extent of Carol's wounds as far as he could see at the
00:10:32
time writing we observed that the woman had numerous wounds about the forehead a
00:10:36
wound uh bleeding quite heavily in the right eye and three or four wounds in the neck on the left and right side we
00:10:44
also noticed a shiny metal tip or what appeared to be a knife blade protruding from the left side of the neck who the
00:10:51
[ __ ] did this to her oh just wait so Carol was taken to ankor hospital by the ambulance while the officers called for
00:10:59
additional support and started their investigation from what the two initial investigators could tell Marcato and
00:11:06
Shephard it seemed like Carol had actually crawled or dragged her way down the street just trying to find that like
00:11:13
shatters my heart yeah and just like this quiet 1960s Suburban neighborhood and she can't yell cuz she's been
00:11:20
stabbed in the [ __ ] neck so when they conducted their door too canvas of the neighborhood Fritz Pearson's wife who
00:11:26
that was the doctor's wife who had sent him over and a handyman who had been working on their house told
00:11:31
investigators that she' seen who she now knew to be Carol slumped in front of another neighbor's house just a few
00:11:38
minutes before she made her way to the Nelson's store so she had to like stop on her way there yeah of course which is
00:11:44
I just can't imagine looking out my window and seeing that no and also like did you tell anyone she's the one that
00:11:50
sent her husband over oh she's the one who said like I think something's going on over there so I think she saw I think
00:11:57
probably what happened was initially she saw somebody like like in the street and
00:12:00
was like who is that like what's going on and then looked like looked further and saw her get to the Nelsons and
00:12:05
realized who it was like all right there's something wrong here so when investigators arrived at Carol
00:12:10
Thompson's home about just a block away nobody was home and the front door was locked so the officers ended up entering
00:12:16
through a side door that was open and that opened up into the kitchen for the most part the kitchen actually seemed to
00:12:22
be pretty undisturbed except there was one drawer where silverware and knives had been pulled out and its contents
00:12:27
were spilled to the floor but then they saw a trail of blood that led them from the kitchen to the front door where they
00:12:35
discovered a large pool of blood and laying in the blood investigators discovered three unspent live rounds
00:12:42
from a pistol what appeared to be the handle of the knife from Carol's neck and several pieces of hard white plastic
00:12:50
of Unknown Origin they like couldn't figure out what this plastic was once they confirmed that there was nobody in
00:12:56
the house the attacker wasn't there a team of inv Ator started searching the Thompson's two floor home hoping to get
00:13:02
some insight into what happened at all now the first thing they noticed was that the front door had been locked from
00:13:08
the inside with the safety latch like a little chain latch but the door had been
00:13:13
pulled so hard from the inside that it had actually come away from the frame slightly wow so somebody was trying to
00:13:20
get out desperately also discovered on the floor by the door just under the rug was Carol's wedding ring ooh which is
00:13:27
just like that's very chilly yeah like what now upstairs in the bathroom investigators found uh several smears of
00:13:34
blood in the sink which led them to believe that whoever had attacked Carol definitely tried to clean up after
00:13:40
themselves before leaving and they also saw that there was about six or seven inches of water in the bathtub huh it
00:13:46
just so weird from there they followed the blood trail back to the primary bedroom which had been completely
00:13:52
ransacked like it looked like somebody had been looking for something in particular in a big hurry and while it
00:13:58
was a mess they couldn't help but notice that there was no Rhyme or Reason to the
00:14:03
chaos so they thought it was possible that Carol was attacked like maybe like I always say some kind of robbery gone
00:14:09
wrong that seems staged though but it felt way too staged they thought and on top of that nothing appeared to be
00:14:15
missing yeah I mean they just found her diamond ring by the front door you know whenever it's like no Rhyme or Reason to
00:14:22
the rans sacking yeah it's definitely stage and nothing is missing and nothing is missing H like come on so there was
00:14:28
there was evidence of a struggle obviously having occurred throughout several rooms in the house and it seemed
00:14:33
like Carol had fought back or at least tried very hard to get away but despite that they couldn't really determine the
00:14:40
sequence of events and they really couldn't tell where the assault had actually started yeah cuz it seems like
00:14:45
chaos it's chaos and everything is just a mess and it kind of just looked like once the attack started the attacker and
00:14:51
the victim ran all throughout the house in several rooms and probably even doubled back actually more than once so
00:14:58
they came the houses or the house on both sides of the street for several blocks but other than the Nelsons and
00:15:04
the Pearsons nobody had seen or heard anything out of the ordinary that morning wow given the time of day a lot
00:15:10
of families had gone their separate ways by the time the attack would have happened and wouldn't be back until like
00:15:15
late that evening that's true it's like work schoolo you know errands all that stuff
00:15:20
exactly other than a few droplets of Blood on the sidewalk there was no evidence that a crime had ever even
00:15:26
occurred out there or that Carol had crawled her way to the neighbors for help wow which when you think about how
00:15:31
badly she was injured is insane that's incredible yeah so while they were in the process of searching the home
00:15:39
Carol's husband T Eugene Cotton Thompson so his name is t Eugene Thompson but he's better known as cotton that's what
00:15:46
we that's what I thought that's what I think of while the detectives were searching the home he arrives home
00:15:51
cotton arrives home he had been at his Law Office downtown when he got a call shortly after 9:00 a.m. from the Nelson
00:15:57
son Sydney saying that there had been an accident involving Carol Sydney didn't tell him too much cuz obviously he's
00:16:04
like you have to drive here yeah and he's like and I don't even know much and nobody even knows exactly so he just
00:16:09
said there was an accident by the time cotton got the call Carol was on her way to Anchor hospital but instead of going
00:16:16
directly to the hospital cotton drove back home and actually even stopped briefly at the Nelson's house before
00:16:22
then going back to his own house which was definitely a little weird yeah and like I'm sure you're not thinking
00:16:27
straight but it was something something that people took note of for sure I can understand that yeah so he told the
00:16:33
police he had left the house that morning around 7:30 and he was taking his son Jeffrey to school and then he
00:16:38
went to his office so typical morning he also a well treed Alibi uhhuh around 8:30 he called the house to confirm with
00:16:48
Carol that uh he would be picking up the kids at school and he said other than that that was the last time he had
00:16:53
spoken to her he said at that time nothing seemed out of the ordinary she didn't sound distressed
00:16:59
nothing but by the time they finished the search of the house detectives had actually discovered very little in the
00:17:05
way of evidence and they really didn't have any leads to indicate what exactly happened in this house obviously the
00:17:12
attack had carried out through multiple rooms covering the walls the curtains the rugs everything in blood but as for
00:17:20
why and how it all happened they were at a loss H but based on all the evidence they theorized that Carol had been hit
00:17:27
at least once with a piece of large heavy rubber tubing which they found on the kitchen floor uh but they believe
00:17:32
that she was also likely assaulted with the butt of a gun wow because the handle
00:17:37
of which was broken in the process leaving all these shards of plastic by the door oh that's what that was yeah
00:17:44
and she also sustained several stab wounds from what they concluded was a small pairing knife holy [ __ ] and that's
00:17:51
the handle that they discovered by the front door damn so while they are still searching through the house and trying
00:17:57
to figure out what the [ __ ] happened here here doctors at Anker hospital did their best to stabilize a badly injured
00:18:03
but still alive Carol she had 25 separate cuts on her head from a blunt object and several of those cuts had
00:18:11
called a uh had caused a quote skull fracture brain hemorrage and contusions on the brain this is so vicious it's
00:18:19
vicious and she also had two stab wounds in her neck when she got to the hospital
00:18:25
she was completely unconscious and was quote without measurable BL blood pressure wow yeah surgeons did their
00:18:32
best to revive her performing a tracheotomy they also did an external heart massage which never even actually
00:18:39
heard of that wow that's when they literally like with their they will literally get the heart pumping with
00:18:44
their like physically pump the heart I didn't even know that was an option or like a thing surgeons are wild and they
00:18:50
also did um what's called a trepanation and that was to relieve the pressure on her brain cuz I think she had she had
00:18:56
like bleeding skull yeah exactly but their efforts were futile unfortunately and she was pronounced dead a few
00:19:04
minutes before 1 p.m. that's awful which when you think about that she arrived on
00:19:08
the doorstep around 9 that morning like so badly attack she moved until 1:00 p.m. 1 p.m. like she fought hard she
00:19:16
must have been an Agony though yeah that's what kills me you just hope that she wasn't since she was uncons hope she
00:19:21
was in complete shock yeah so in 1963 violent home invasions were pretty rare in the US and
00:19:29
especially in the middle of the day in a middle class neighborhood like this is not something that happened a lot and
00:19:34
when it did happen the motive was typically robbery but in this case nothing had been stolen and aside from
00:19:40
the bedroom it really didn't even seem like the killer had gone through the Thompson's belongings at all it kind of
00:19:45
seemed like whoever attacked Carol had gone to the house to do exactly that and given the amount of violence done to her
00:19:52
the objective clearly seemed to be murder yeah but the question that they had to ask was who would have wanted
00:19:58
Carol Thompson and dead so going back a little ways Carol was born and raised in
00:20:03
St Paul and she had spent her entire life there like she's lived her her entire life she was really well-liked
00:20:09
she was a mother of four she was super super active in her kids lives she was the denm mother for her son's Boy Scout
00:20:15
Troop she was a leader of her daughter's Brownie troop and when she wasn't coordinating the lives of four really
00:20:20
really active children she was organizing events at their Church she was the president of the woman's
00:20:25
Association a member of the church choir and she even taught a Kindergarten class
00:20:30
oh my God Carol is a the most wholesome woman ever and like what a what a badass
00:20:38
oh yeah organizing four very active young children's lives enough that alone is the is hard to do yep and then you
00:20:47
add on like being the den mother like being a part of the Boy Scout Troop a leader of the Brownie troop teaching
00:20:54
Church teaching a Kindergarten class being a member of the choir president of the women's Association like she's
00:21:01
literally everything and she also on top of all that I think I mention it later she was taking classes too yeah see at
00:21:07
the same time she's what a badass I can barely handle my [ __ ] and I don't have
00:21:13
half of that I don't even have kids and I don't know what I'm doing half the time like that's that's wild that's a
00:21:20
lot exactly she was she was liked by everybody and she had all that going for her so the police are out of L like who
00:21:28
does doesn't like Carol everybody does and she's like a young mom you know like who's what's she getting into like she's
00:21:34
not getting into like organized crime here I not at all no she's not so frustrated by the lack of evidence and
00:21:41
the any leads at the scene investigators started questioning the family and the neighbors as a criminal defense lawyer
00:21:47
detectives actually had to wonder if one of Cotton's previous clients had been maybe disgruntled and wanted to get back
00:21:53
at him by targeting his wife how awful yeah but I mean it happens so I can see why started there and cotton handed over
00:22:00
a list of previous clients but he also insisted that he couldn't think of a single one of them who had been
00:22:05
dissatisfied with his Legal Services enough to act like that you know like do something that I mean I feel like you
00:22:11
would have an idea if somebody was that disgruntled definitely cuz you would think that there would be like Steps
00:22:17
leading up to that you at least feel like you know what this guy was really angry and like I could and he's
00:22:21
dangerous like maybe like made like a verbal threat at the very least you know so investigators also started digging
00:22:28
into Carol's background of course and in a lot of ways she was pretty I don't want to say ordinary but like she led an
00:22:35
ordinary life like stuck out to them yeah according to friends she was very much an extrovert much known and much
00:22:41
loved by everyone they said Carol other friends described her as somebody who was quote interested in everything and
00:22:47
constantly learning I love people like that I know she seems like I love people like that that just want to keep doing
00:22:53
stuff yeah I feel like Carol seems like somebody we definitely would have got along with one friend told a reporter
00:22:59
she was always trying to gain more knowledge and in fact like I mentioned earlier the reason that cotton had
00:23:04
planned to pick up the kids from school that afternoon was because Carol was taking night classes and she had plans
00:23:10
to go to class that evening yeah on top of everything El she's doing she was going to a class now by most accounts
00:23:18
too uh Carol and Cotton's marriage had been a good one they always seemed happy together people said they were people
00:23:23
said they were an anchor in the neighborhood they were organizing parties all the time events all the time
00:23:29
like things looked really good from the outside Carol met cotton when she was a sophomore in college and 10 months later
00:23:36
she dropped out of school and they got married and then a few months later Carol got pregnant with their first
00:23:40
child and she really started on her career as a wife and a mother which was very of the time this is the 60s for
00:23:46
sure and she approached that with the same enthusiasm that she did everything in life she was super excited like fully
00:23:53
devoted to everything kids and husband Carol seems like the type of woman who when she does something she [ __ ] does
00:24:01
it she doesn't half ass anything Carol whole asked everything and you can see that like even more than whole last if
00:24:08
that's possible yeah in the public and even in the Press too she was described as the Pinnacle of a 1960s housewife but
00:24:17
in private conversations waiting for a butt's always a but I was like you can't tell me this is just the way it is no
00:24:22
yeah in private conversation the interesting thing is I'll tell you what happens but it's not even that like on
00:24:28
Carol's end you're like I don't know like it really doesn't explain this necessarily in private conversations
00:24:34
with friends and neighbors detectives were starting to develop a little bit of a different picture of Carol it was true
00:24:39
she was a very devoted mother but not everybody believed that she had abandoned her own dream so willingly and
00:24:46
not everybody was convinced that Carolyn Cotton's marriage was a good one I did wonder when you said like she dropped
00:24:52
out of school and they got married and she still has this love of learning obviously yeah and it's like obviously
00:24:58
that absolutely if that was her choice and she was happy with that choice then more power to her yeah I just wondered I
00:25:03
had like a weird little well it sudden too that's the thing but obviously it was just rumors but some of the women in
00:25:09
the neighborhood speculated that well she might not have been having a full-blown Affair Carol did have a
00:25:14
friend that everybody referred to as big red whoa who seemed more interested and
00:25:19
attentive of Carol than was considered appropriate at the time oh nobody said they saw them doing anything like
00:25:25
scandalous or anything you seemed to like Carol he seemed to pay a lot of attention to her okay well that's not
00:25:30
her fault no and she's beautiful if you look up a picture it makes sense so investigators soon learned that Big
00:25:37
Red's real name was Kenneth Moren he was a local man in his early 30s he met uh cotton and Carol when he sold them some
00:25:43
windows and doors about a year earlier and he and Carol shared a lot of interest so not long after meeting
00:25:49
Kenneth kind of became part of their Social Circle according to him he and Carol would visit museums together go to
00:25:56
galleries sometimes he would drive Carol in the kids places when cotton was unavailable but he insisted they were
00:26:02
just friends there was nothing more to it and he claimed he actually hadn't seen Carol since the previous November
00:26:07
and didn't know anything about her murder he also had an alibi for the day of the murder which was confirmed by his
00:26:13
boss so he was quickly ruled out as a suspect so I wonder like I don't know if it's going to go any further than that
00:26:20
but I'm like so they it sounds like they were just like good friends yeah like legitimately good friends and maybe
00:26:26
maybe on his end he liked her think I think they definitely like thought the other was attractive probably and like I
00:26:33
think it was also really tough to have a friend of the opposite I was going to say this is such a different time too
00:26:38
and especially in like a small town and a close-knit community I think they probably were just really good friends
00:26:43
who like maybe found each other attractive but it doesn't really sound like across the line at all okay so even
00:26:50
though they had ruled out Kenneth Moren as a suspect his presence in Carol's life definitely contributed to an
00:26:55
emerging portrait of probably an unhappy woman woman in an unhappy marriage to some degree I can absolutely see that
00:27:02
like you know and in fact further interviews with friends and neighbors revealed that Carol's relationship with
00:27:07
Kenneth was a source of frustration for her husband cotton ah and one afternoon in November he got home and he found
00:27:14
Carol and Kenneth just talking in the backyard and demanded he walked back out there and demanded that Kenneth leave
00:27:20
and not come back like he was I think he was starting to probably hear people talking and I'm sure his Pals were
00:27:27
teasing him that kind of thing like stay the [ __ ] away from my wife and you're
00:27:30
like you know I kind of get like I can see like you think there's varying degrees of appropriateness when it comes
00:27:36
to a relationship like that when you're married especially so it's like I can understand that from an outside point of
00:27:42
view it can be like oh you know they're just like a nice friendship and then I'm
00:27:46
like but you know what if you're in the relationship it's probably going to look
00:27:48
a little different so well like and this is just me like to each their own but if
00:27:52
I knew that Drew had a close woman friend that he was like driving our kids around with I'd be like ah I'm not super
00:27:58
comfortable with that yeah I too would have a problem with that you know what I mean yeah so for her part Carol told a
00:28:03
friend and this kind of explains what you were wondering earlier she said quote she did not dislike Kenneth and
00:28:09
was attracted to him but loved only her husband and children oh so she was like yeah like I he's handsome and like I
00:28:15
like being around him but I only love my kids and my husband a just she just sounds like the purest like Tru she
00:28:22
really does now the other thing was the blow up in the backyard had resulted in Cotton becoming more more attentive to
00:28:28
her and the kids which she appreciated she's like you know got a little fire on his butt she's like I miss Kenneth like
00:28:34
he was cool to hang out with but this kind of work out it was great it was a testament to Carol's popularity too that
00:28:39
so many people were willing to cooperate with investigators and that they were offering whatever Insight they had to
00:28:45
her character but their descriptions of her life and personality even the gossip
00:28:50
really didn't do much to point them in the direction of a killer yeah if anything the interviews just confirm
00:28:55
detective's earlier feeling that Carol Thompson was was the last person anybody would have wanted to see dead or
00:29:01
murdered even worse like everyone on the outside of her life seemed to really like her yeah like she didn't really
00:29:07
have a problem with she wasn't beefing with anyone yeah so in the absence of New Leads investigators turned their
00:29:12
attention back to Cotton of course the husband who did look particularly suspicious after detectives discovered
00:29:20
multiple life insurance policies oh I knew those were coming life insurance policies in Carol's name from mult mple
00:29:28
different insurance companies you got to go that's it you got to I don't know how
00:29:31
this ends so I'm not going to sit here and I'm not going to dog on somebody you say that it's definitely them you can I
00:29:38
can you can okay yeah I me it's pretty come on think it's pretty different life insurances from different companies and
00:29:45
this happens yeah yeah like what about a week after the murder it came to light that there were two term life insurance
00:29:54
policies in Carol's name three accidental death policies in her name and three group term life insurance
00:30:02
policies covering each member of the family all totaling more than a million dollar in coverage back then which today
00:30:10
would be $10 million more more than10 million wow yeah that would make my red flags go flappy flappy flappy yeah 100%
00:30:22
so there's eight eight insurance policies that's Bonkers like that's insane goes crazy that goes absolutely
00:30:30
bonkers the news of the policies obviously caused out quite a stir amongst those who knew the family as it
00:30:36
should since that much coverage seemed pretty [ __ ] excessive by any measure in a statement to the Press Ramsey
00:30:42
County attorney William Randall told reporters Thompson is the applicant for a beneficiary of the policies which are
00:30:48
due to expire next month oh yeah are you telling me I'm telling you this piece of
00:30:57
[ __ ] [ __ ] it yeah he did something so the discovery raised some new questions
00:31:03
about Carol's death and investigators obviously wanted to talk more with cotton but rather than address the
00:31:08
matter with the police privately cotton Thompson released his own statement to the Press via his friend Douglas Young
00:31:16
Douglas he didn't even go do it for himself he had his friend do it don't involve Doug yeah don't don't involve
00:31:21
Douglas come on in the statement young laid out a detailed tally of the insurance policies in Carol's name and
00:31:27
he included many many lengthy specifics about the payouts and the purchase prices just like a very unusual amount
00:31:34
of information that most people wouldn't understand or really give much of a [ __ ]
00:31:39
about yeah it's a great way to confuse people and make them not want to think that you're the guy it was strategic for
00:31:44
sure now as for why he purchased so much Insurance cotton said we had no debt bills or indebtedness to speak of and we
00:31:50
felt that we could readily afford up to up to $200 a month on insurance as to each of
00:31:56
us it's like how do you have like 55,000 insurance policies that's the thing like
00:32:01
I get having a life insurance policy absolutely but I don't understand Having Eight yeah I don't understand that most
00:32:09
are like damn like you got really good deals on those yeah according to Cotton they did have the children in mind when
00:32:15
they purchased the insurance and they just he said they hadn't intended to keep it beyond the children aging into
00:32:20
adulthood which like okay yeah that all sounds great yeah why do you have eight you just don't need eight that's the
00:32:25
thing like you're not answering my question yeah cotton the most is six there's six family members six policies
00:32:32
the end and I'm pretty sure one policy can cover multiple people yeah I don't know EXA that could be wrong but well
00:32:38
it's like why I just I don't know like that just it seems excessive it it absolutely does so the explanation
00:32:45
seemed kind of reasonable even if the number of policies and coverage were excessive people people were willing to
00:32:51
like look past it a little bit it's not like totally out of the realm of like you it's just a little like normality
00:32:57
but it's like like that's it's still excessive to me it raises your eyebrows it does but what investigators still
00:33:02
found unusual was that cotton also hadn't been forthcoming about the insurance policies when they asked him
00:33:08
immediately after Carol's death like he didn't say anything about these they found them which it's like that's a
00:33:15
little weird that's real weird when they ask you and you're just like a but at the same time you're like but you also
00:33:22
know it's going to make you sound bad and remember he's an attorney yeah so he knows that's going to make but also it's
00:33:28
like they're going to find them yeah that's the thing be up front and be like listen I know you're going to find these
00:33:33
things and you're going to question me about them so let me get ahead of it I think he thought that he was smarter
00:33:38
than he could have he could uh outrun this yeah and they also thought it was weird that when the details of the
00:33:44
policies came to light he chose to send a prepared statement to the Press instead of just talking to the
00:33:49
detectives who were working on his wife's murder case yeah that tells you a lot you know in fact according to the St
00:33:55
Paul police department and the county attorney's office neither received a copy of the statement that had been G
00:34:00
had been given to the press and they only learned about it when it hit papers on the morning of March 27th wow yeah
00:34:06
yeah that's shady Behavior so they didn't see any of that coming and then there's this like lengthy ass statement
00:34:11
yeah so the original policies appeared to have actually been taken out by Carol or at least somebody who signed Carol's
00:34:17
names to the form interesting but investigators decided to send the documents to the FBI for handwriting
00:34:22
analysis to confirm that it actually was Carol's handwriting and in the meantime
00:34:26
they continued their investigation but openly admitted that they had really made very little progress in the weeks
00:34:32
following the murder police chief Lester mcalli said we have a great deal of circumstantial evidence but the case
00:34:38
isn't complete by any means we need a break to crack the case and little did they know that break was a coming it was
00:34:45
going to find them oh no so in their struggle to make any Headway in the case detectives Revisited the scene and
00:34:51
Revisited the evidence that they found in the home for the most part the evidence collected from the house was
00:34:56
pretty much what you would expect to find from a home except for the pieces of plastic that were recovered in the
00:35:01
pool of blood by the front door in the days that followed the murder investigators theorized that that
00:35:06
plastic had come from the hand of a pistol which the Intruder obviously used to beat Carol that caused the pistol
00:35:13
grip to break and fall on the floor and that's where the plastic came from but the problem was they didn't have the gun
00:35:19
that the pistol grip had come from and they actually weren't even sure what kind of gun it was at all wow so they
00:35:25
didn't have a lot to go on but despite the lack of information they held a televised press conference where they
00:35:31
showed those broken pieces of the pistol grip and they asked for the Public's help identifying the weapon and within a
00:35:37
week the St Paul police got a call from a man named Wayne Brandt he was a St Paul salesman who claimed that the gun
00:35:44
they were looking for was his 7.65 mm lugger pistol which had been stolen from his apartment on February 14th just a
00:35:53
few weeks before the murder H [ __ ] he was certain that this gun was his because he actually recognized the
00:35:59
pistol grip as one he made for himself in a shop class stop it yeah several years earlier according to him the gun
00:36:06
was one of several items stolen from his apartment along with a television a diamond ring and a typewriter poor guy
00:36:13
wow and now he's got to call and be like yeah that gun piece found at that murder
00:36:17
scene that's my gun but I promise you I wasn't there now he's got to go through the whole rig a roll I know I can't
00:36:22
imagine and good for him for being like yeah that's mine cuz some people wouldn't I know a lot of people would be
00:36:27
like I'm not getting wrapped up in that right we love a Good Samaritan yeah so a
00:36:31
few days later and by chance a a lot of things in this case just came together by chance which I like to believe is my
00:36:38
girl Carol up there the universe is working for yes so police arrested a man named Willard Ingram during a holdup
00:36:47
like during a legit holdup Ingram had a long criminal history and he was actually willing to provide information
00:36:54
about other crimes in exchange for leniency with the whole whole upe and it just so happened that he had
00:37:01
information to share about the pistol used in Carol Thompson's murder oh [ __ ] he admitted that he actually robbed
00:37:07
Wayne Brandt's apartment and stolen the gun but insisted he had nothing to do with the murder itself and he had given
00:37:14
the gun to his friend Norman mastrian oh my goodness The Sisterhood of the Traveling gun it's about to go crazy you
00:37:22
have no idea oh man there are so many people involved in this it blew my mind so he steals the gun but then he gives
00:37:30
it to his friend Norman yes so Norman masteran was a 40-year-old former prize fighter with mob ties oh and he was
00:37:37
mostly known to St Paul police for kind of like a series of petty crimes that was until he became the prime suspect in
00:37:44
a 1962 kidnapping and murder of a local bar owner what the [ __ ] yeah invest investigators actually hadn't been able
00:37:51
to find enough evidence to convict him for the murder and he was let go but pretty much everybody agreed he was the
00:37:57
killer holy [ __ ] walking mhm so on the morning of April 19th a group of detectives knocked on his door with a
00:38:04
warrant for his arrest but he refused to let them in or come outside he wasn't letting them in and he wasn't going out
00:38:11
there that's not shady at all no so after speaking with the county attorney the detectives were actually given the
00:38:16
authority to take him by force so they kicked down his door and they put him under arrest without further incident
00:38:22
luckily now once they were at the station he said he didn't know anything about Carol's murder he refused to say
00:38:28
anything more without a lawyer now obviously this was frustrating but by then investigators had already found a
00:38:34
second witness shut up a man named Henry Butler who was now in custody pending trial for a robbery is everyone okay no
00:38:42
the answer is no criminals are everywhere criminals in your hair they be criminal in every Everybody stays
00:38:49
criminal in this in this time of St Paul so Henry Butler claimed that he had seen
00:38:55
Norman mastrian in possession of the stolen pistol but he said he also saw Norman give the gun to another man this
00:39:02
gun is changing hands yet again and this time it goes to Dick Anderson yet another Criminal Who had left town a few
00:39:10
days earlier well this seems shady too so the connections that led from Willard Ingram to Norman mastrian to Henley
00:39:18
Butler Henry Butler excuse me those all made sense they all had very lengthy criminal histories they were all known
00:39:24
to associate with other criminals like it was like a criminal [ __ ] enter they just stay criminal yeah they stay
00:39:29
criminal like you said but dick Anderson on the other hand he made less sense he
00:39:34
was a twice wounded military vet who had fallen on really hard times and he turned to Petty burglary just to try to
00:39:41
get by but he seemed to be a far cry from the more hardened criminals that he was currently being associated with but
00:39:47
once the warrant for dick Anderson's arrest went out St Paul police got a tip from a reporter that he was actually
00:39:53
staying at the tropics Motor hotel in Phoenix Arizona so when Phoenix police arrived at the hotel at the motel
00:40:00
actually they found Anderson in the lobby Luggage in hand ready to check out presumably to avoid arrest whoa he had
00:40:07
definitely been tipped off yeah it turned out that the [ __ ] reporter who gave the tip to police about him being
00:40:14
in Phoenix in the first place actually conducted a phone interview with dick Anderson and let him know that the
00:40:20
police were looking for him in relation to this murder and this whole slew of shady characters what a dumbass right
00:40:27
like are you serious like what are you looking for here and you're [ __ ] up the investigation what are you doing
00:40:32
you're playing I know what he's looking for he's looking for a by line exactly so Anderson told the reporter that he
00:40:37
was only in Phoenix for a few days for vacation and that he didn't know anybody named Norman mastrian he didn't know
00:40:43
anybody named Henley Butler or Willard Ingram uh he repeated these denials to the Phoenix police once he was arrested
00:40:51
and said he would sign the extradition papers but as the papers were being drawn up he changed his mind and instead
00:40:58
contacted a prominent Phoenix criminal attorney to rep him wow yeah he then said I have no knowledge of the crime
00:41:04
back home only what I read in the newspapers it's a big stink here okay this murdered woman is a big S
00:41:12
stink here I would say so yeah so while detectives in St Paul waited on Anderson's extradition hearing they
00:41:19
started interviewing his friends including the man who had actually been arrested with him in Phoenix a man named
00:41:24
Richard Sharp another Char sharp another guy like Anderson and the others sharp was a known criminal he had actually
00:41:31
fled to Arizona with Anderson to avoid prosecution for a recent burglary that he was involved in can all these men
00:41:37
stop stealing other people's [ __ ] they literally cannot and will not yeah Sticky Fingers meoo gang
00:41:43
here but like the others he was willing to exchange information in order to get leniency on his own [ __ ] so in a 23 page
00:41:53
statement given to the police sharp told investigators that dick Anderson was lying he said dick Anderson actually was
00:42:00
the one who murdered Carol Thompson what the [ __ ] and that he needed sharp to contact the quote unquote payoff man on
00:42:07
his behalf shut up he was waiting for his money according to the statement Anderson told sharp that Norman mastrian
00:42:16
had paid him $3,000 to kill Carol Thompson what yeah so it literally just all went full circle holy crap now
00:42:25
investigators actually did find that Norman mastrian had paid dick Anderson to kill Carol Thompson but what they
00:42:31
couldn't figure out was why some smalltime criminal with mob ties would want a St Paul housewife dead like how
00:42:37
did that connect I would when I said earlier like I'm pretty sure she doesn't have connections to organized crime like
00:42:43
she doesn't but Som they know about end up here right so they're sitting there trying to figure out exactly what you
00:42:49
just said and they get another lucky ba break when they arrest yet another [ __ ] criminal sh Morris who was
00:42:58
a local cab driver and friend of Norman mastrian who claimed he knew where dick Anderson had disposed of the rest of the
00:43:06
pistol that they were still looking for the stolen pistol under threat of prosecution as a co-conspirator and the
00:43:12
murder at this point Sheldon Morris LED detectives to a remote location in the woods where the gun had been tossed wow
00:43:20
and they found it shut up yes so now with the murder weapon in their possession and the murder suspect on his
00:43:26
way to St Paul from Arizona investigators were really close were really really close to closing the case
00:43:32
on Carol Thompson's murder they knew that Norman mastrian had received the murder weapon from Willard Ingram he's
00:43:38
the one who stole it in the first place so Willard Ingram breaks into the house of the man who had you know made this
00:43:45
pistol and then he gives it to Norman mastrian and then Norman mastrian gives it to Dick Anderson okay and he also
00:43:54
along with the gun tells him he promises to pay $3,000 to kill Carol $33,000 $3,000 to take a human life yes but can
00:44:03
you imagine how excited the investigators felt after going through this whole thing
00:44:08
and getting this [ __ ] gun this murder weapon in the middle of the woods like can you imagine how I it must be the
00:44:17
most insane feeling to finally get there you have like they literally started with like next to nothing and they asked
00:44:23
the public for help and this guy like thankfully comes forward and is like yes is my gun but it was stolen but to pull
00:44:29
that and then they track down like what how many like four or five different criminals in the in local criminals in
00:44:35
the area exactly that's what I mean like they pulled that thread and kept pulling
00:44:39
it and to end up with the actual murder weapon after in the middle of the woods is wild and crazy how like all of these
00:44:46
people were willing to turn on each other because they all they they locked out because they all had cases that they
00:44:52
were facing they wanted to get yeah that they wanted leniency on exactly so it was just like luy strike after Lucky
00:45:00
Strike seriously so they knew all of this now but they were still missing the last piece of the puzzle that would you
00:45:06
know wrap this entire story together make it make sense they needed to know who hired Norman mastrian in the first
00:45:12
place cuz he didn't know Carol why would he want her dead where is this coming from so just like they had done earlier
00:45:18
detectives went back to the basics of the case and they looked for anything that would connect Norman mastrian to
00:45:24
the Thompson family and that's when they found that list of previous clients that
00:45:29
cotton had given them at the start of this whole investigation and of course it included a familiar name Norman
00:45:34
mastrian so there's no disgruntled no former client there's a client that you felt so comfortable with precisely pre
00:45:42
[ __ ] sely so after masteran was arrested that previous year on the suspicion of the kidnapping and the
00:45:48
murder he consulted with cotton Topson cotton Thompson excuse me about potentially suing the the county for
00:45:54
false arrest even though everybody was pretty convinced that he did this he was so
00:46:00
ballsy that he was willing to sue the county luckily the suit never went forward but it was the only connection
00:46:06
they could find between the two of them wow the last piece of the puzzle finally
00:46:10
fell into place when St Paul detectives were able to get dick Anderson back in custody in Minnesota because remember he
00:46:16
was in Phoenix but they they sent him on over they extradited him now for some reason I have such trouble with the word
00:46:22
extradited extradited I like I can say it in a conversation but when I look at it I can't say it how I'm supposed to I
00:46:29
have words like that too yeah it's so weird so they they get him back initially he stuck to his story he
00:46:35
denied knowing anything about the murder he didn't know any of these people why am I even here who me where am I even
00:46:41
what I didn't steal the cookie from the cookie jar no not me that's literally all I could think of the entire time I
00:46:46
was going through this he's just like no we're on the same page but by late June
00:46:51
he finally broke down and confessed and told them everything they wanted to know
00:46:55
oh according to Dick Anderson he had been hired by Norman mastrian to kill Carol but it was cotton Thompson who had
00:47:01
arranged the entire hit [ __ ] you her husband according to Dick Anderson he'd been given instructions to sneak into
00:47:08
the house through the side door Before Dawn and wait in the basement until everybody had left the house he had this
00:47:15
[ __ ] come into his house while his children were still in this house four children he had a mobster with a
00:47:21
[ __ ] rrap sheet yep sneak into his goddamn house while his kids were in there yeah never mind what he did to
00:47:27
Carol yeah exactly uh dick Anderson doesn't have mob ties it's Norman mastan who has mob
00:47:33
ties dick Anderson dick Anderson is like the guy who they were like this doesn't
00:47:37
even make sense that he's connected to all these criminals cuz he's like a petty Thief exactly so he's a he's the
00:47:42
one that you wouldn't even my goodness you wouldn't even expect him that's the thing and he's a brutal [ __ ] monster
00:47:48
mhm who there's so many people involved in this that it's so hard to keep track of everybody but he really is the last
00:47:55
person that they like why is this guy connected to all he's literally like a military vet like not tied up in the mob
00:48:02
not tied up [ __ ] exactly so yeah he has this guy just [ __ ] sit in his basement while
00:48:08
his kids are getting ready to go off to school and his wife this guy he doesn't know no idea what he's capable of yeah
00:48:15
yep wow so messed up so the plan was that cotton would make a phone call to the house once he got to work which
00:48:22
would be dick Anderson's signal to act cuz he would hear the phone ring and then he would know that everybody except
00:48:27
Carol was out of the house so that morning cotton filled the bathtub with six or seven Ines of water and the plan
00:48:34
was for dick Anderson to strike Carol on the back of a head on the back of the head with a heavy piece of rubber hose
00:48:40
which they hoped would knock her unconscious and when she'd been disabled Anderson was to place her body in the
00:48:45
bathtub making it seem like Carol had hit her head getting into the tub and drowned oh so he really put some thought
00:48:51
into this oh he did because the accidental death would have triggered the double indemnity clause several of
00:48:57
the insurance policies thus paying out the higher amount oh so he was hoping this would look like a total accident
00:49:03
yeah it's God awful what happened to Carol but it's also like yeah that's why you don't hire somebody to murder your
00:49:12
[ __ ] wife dude cuz it's not going to work out for you nope but unfortunately like we just said things did not go to
00:49:17
plan so after cotton placed the call to the house Anderson started going up the stairs from the basement but the the
00:49:24
stairs were creaking as he walked so he was nervous that the noise was going to give him away so he waited a minute or
00:49:30
two and during that time Carol went back upstairs to lay down in bed which sounds
00:49:34
like something she probably never did yeah cuz she was so busy all the time but she just goes back to her own
00:49:40
bedroom and Anderson appears in the doorway of her room oh God so she panicked assuming that it was a robbery
00:49:47
and she jumped out of bed which he then immediately hit her on the back of the head with the hose but it didn't disable
00:49:54
her like they hoped it would instead fought back hard and she was actually able to knock him to the floor and she
00:50:01
made a break for the stairs wish she got out and she stopped quickly to grab her
00:50:05
robe so that she wouldn't run out of the house and decent no yeah Anderson caught
00:50:10
up with her in the hallway but she was able to escape him again and she ran for the front door but when she reached the
00:50:16
front door she found that it had been locked with a chain lock holy [ __ ] when you hear how why this was locked it's
00:50:24
going to break your heart so as she f to get the chain off the door dick Anderson
00:50:28
obviously caught up with her and pointed the gun at Carol now still thinking that
00:50:32
she was being robbed she took her her diamond ring off her finger her wedding ring and offered it to him but he
00:50:38
responded by pulling the trigger of the gun to both of their surprise the gun jammed sending him into a panic and
00:50:48
that's when he started beating her with the gun so aggressively that the pistol grip broke and fell to the floor holy
00:50:55
[ __ ] it was also at this point that those three rounds from the clip got came loose and dropped to the floor so
00:51:01
that's why they found those unspent clips damn now when the beating didn't appear to have killed Carol he went to
00:51:07
the kitchen and grabbed a pairing knife from the door which he used to stab Carol until the handle broke now finally
00:51:14
convinced that she was dead he went upstairs to the bathroom where he tried to wash the blood off his hands and arms
00:51:20
and he went to the bedroom to Stage the scene to look like a robbery and while he was staging staging the scene he
00:51:26
heard a noise downstairs and ran to look by the door and that's when he saw that
00:51:30
Carol was gone so she most likely actually played dead to make it seem like so she could Escape out the front
00:51:37
door she fought him as hard as she did and then had the whereabouts to pretend she was dead so she could get away that
00:51:45
is horrifying so panicked when he saw that she was gone he stopped what he was doing and he fled the house from the
00:51:51
kitchen door and got the [ __ ] out of there wow now this is gut-wrenching years later Jeff Thompson cotton and
00:51:59
Carol's son would recall that on the morning of his mother's murder his father instructed him to put the chain
00:52:04
on the front door before they left for school piece of actual [ __ ] [ __ ] he had his son you got you put that on your
00:52:12
kid yep like [ __ ] this guy into Oblivion into obliv [ __ ] this guy and Jeff even
00:52:20
said he thought it was strange because they never changed the door and he said if if it hadn't been locked obviously
00:52:26
his mother would have been able to escape her attacker he said I had never done that before I haven't forgiven my
00:52:31
father and you never should [ __ ] that guy never like why can't you just I don't want you to do any of this but you
00:52:37
put that on your [ __ ] son you can't even just go do it like you're making him a part of this he had a man a
00:52:43
criminal who he has no idea what he's capable of hiding his house while his kids are walking around upstairs he has
00:52:50
he has zero moral compass to involve kids like that is so so messed up piece of garbage so on June 21st 1963 you will
00:53:00
all be very happy to hear detectives arrested cotton Thompson in connection with the murder labeling him as the
00:53:07
payoff man in the conspiracy cuz remember they were looking for the payoff man when he appeared before the
00:53:13
judge for his arraignment cotton quilt looked Haggard had tears in his eyes and his voice cracked as he answered the
00:53:18
judge's questions oh [ __ ] you in your tears yeah get [ __ ] the news of Cotton's arrest obviously shocked the
00:53:23
friends and neighbors of the Thompson family one neighbor said there was no conflict between the Thompsons
00:53:28
recognizable or known to their closest friends and others recalled how quote he and Carol never missed a Sunday taking
00:53:34
the kids to church and how cotton was active with Jeff's Scout Troop all of it like everybody was shocked even the most
00:53:42
obvious mode of the large insurance payout even didn't really make that much sense to everybody because remember he's
00:53:48
a successful lawyer he's making like $40,000 a year back then which today is more than like $400,000
00:53:56
come on yeah he's like essentially making a doctor salary yeah so it wasn't like he was in desperate need of money
00:54:03
but in reality the motive for Carol's murder had pretty much been staring them in the face since the beginning of the
00:54:09
investigation there were so many claims that they were this ideal couple but it seemed like the neighborhood gossip had
00:54:14
been right all along cotton and Carol's marriage was on the rocks for a long time author William Swanson said there
00:54:21
were all kinds of things that wouldn't jive with Cotton's idea of a wife and mother in 1963
00:54:27
before they were married Carol had obviously Big Dreams and she envisioned a very exciting life for herself she
00:54:32
wanted to go after all her interest all her passions but her marriage and obviously the quick arrival of children
00:54:40
pretty much sidelined all of her goals and required that she turn her attention to supporting her husband's
00:54:47
Ambitions but regardless it's the perfect time for that time that too in 1963 especially exactly exactly but
00:54:54
regardless of how she felt about having to prioritize her responsibilities as a wife and mother like I said in the
00:54:59
beginning she approached all her new responsibilities with like like Open Arms she was happy to do everything she
00:55:05
had to do and by all accounts she was a great wife she was a great mother yeah but the longer they were married people
00:55:11
said The more unhappy Carol had become that author uh Swanson said cotton was a tough self self-absorbed character and
00:55:19
soon it became clear that he was intent on doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted to he was having affairs with
00:55:25
other women and he was just completely indifferent to Carol's wants Carol's needs wow so
00:55:31
he's just like a literal slimy piece of [ __ ] dung yeah on the bottom of an elephant's foot yeah I would say like
00:55:41
he's even lower than that honestly later their son jefff would say I know my mother knew about my dad's Affairs she
00:55:48
was saddened by a lot of his behavior so it would not surprise me if she was to reach out to another person oh that
00:55:54
which honest heart is probably why was so close with Kenneth Moren yeah like I'm sure they like she just wanted
00:56:01
somebody to be there for her and it's it doesn't even really sound like they were
00:56:04
having any kind of like someone that pays attention and it's kind to her yeah and like and the of course that other
00:56:11
person was Kenneth Moran they had shared interests together they gave a [ __ ] about each other and you know nobody
00:56:18
really knows if there was an affair or not but it seemed pretty obvious to everybody that there was some kind of
00:56:24
connection to yeah to each other and that was until cotton put an end to that relationship which makes me even angrier
00:56:30
that that [ __ ] was out there doing everything he wanted and he was being that possessive and here I was
00:56:35
being like Oh yeah you know like I guess when you're in the relationship but he was doing whatever the [ __ ] he wanted
00:56:40
out there in those streets yeah whoever and whatever [ __ ] exactly she just has a male friend and you're literally
00:56:46
just a friend [ __ ] you cotton but the final straw at least as far as cotton was concerned came just one day before
00:56:52
Carol was murdered apparently that afternoon seemingly out of nowhere where Carol turned to her daughter Margaret
00:56:58
and asked what she would do if she went away for a while like what would you do if Mom went away for a while and Jeff
00:57:03
Thompson remembered this happening and he said Margaret was very surprised and concerned and the thought was that she
00:57:09
was planning on leaving my father looking back on it I hope she was however she would have been foolish to
00:57:14
tell him oh Jeff and that's like his son give Jeff a hug I know I do too now nobody knows if Margaret said anything
00:57:22
to her father about her mother planning to leave or if he just came to that conclusion on his own but either way it
00:57:28
seemed that cotton Thompson knew or strongly suspected that Carol was most likely planning on leaving him yeah and
00:57:34
I mean those uh policies were set to expire the following month so he was it's either act now or don't act exactly
00:57:42
so he quickly made made sure made plans that she would never get out of this marriage [ __ ] that guy which is it's
00:57:48
like you don't want to be married either yeah you're you're going Here There and
00:57:53
Everywhere with everyone he wants all this [ __ ] money it's like you're making that money that's the thing I'm
00:57:57
like what can you do at a certain point what are you doing with it exactly why do you need more like you just don't at
00:58:04
struggling like it's not like one of these situations where it's like the family is struggling financially and
00:58:09
they're like last you know and it's obviously it's never okay but in those situations there's a desperation factor
00:58:15
that like plays into it that's not even here he just wanted more yeah I'm like you have four kids holy [ __ ] they all
00:58:23
are doing what they want to do as far as activities it sounds like you guys are throwing parties you're throwing events
00:58:28
like what do you need more for why [ __ ] that guy but after several delays and a
00:58:34
change of venue cotton Thompson finally went on trial for the murder of his wife
00:58:38
on October 27th 1963 he pleaded innocent and in his opening statements prosecutor William
00:58:45
Randall laid out the states theory about Thompson's motive for the murder he said
00:58:49
the motive was not only to enable Mr Thompson to collect the more than $1 million in life insurance he had uh he
00:58:55
had recently out on his wife's life but also to free him up to see other women so just
00:59:01
leave be better off without you anyways wouldn't have got his money so he wouldn't have been happy you got plenty
00:59:06
of money you piece of [ __ ] seriously but Randall pointed to Cotton's long history
00:59:10
of infidelity and one particular incident a year earlier where he apparently told his mistress just give
00:59:17
me 11 months implying that after that time frame he would be able to marry her girl 11 just give me 11 months why the
00:59:25
[ __ ] you being so specific yeah it's like girl come on like first of all stop [ __ ] a marry guy and second of all
00:59:31
when he's saying when he's giving you a time frame you got to wonder you got to wonder what that time frame implies sure
00:59:36
you sure do testifying for the prosecution one of the several insurance agents told the jury about the quote
00:59:42
sense of urgency cotton conveyed to them when he was buying up all of these policies 11 months before Carol's death
00:59:51
cotton told one agent that he had a quote unquote premonition in which Carol would meet with a tragic
00:59:57
accident and no one thought to tell anyone no guys we got to use the stuff between your ears gray matter as P would
01:00:07
say what are you doing yeah he said that was why he was in such a such a hurry to
01:00:11
get all these policies so some guy some high powerered defense attorney has a who [ __ ] everything that with two
01:00:18
legs Y is out here telling you that he's got to get a 85 Insurance life insurance
01:00:24
policies you're not far off on his wife his young wife his healthy wife his family too and he's got to do it quick
01:00:32
quick quick quick and you know why he had a vision you know it's so weird I just have this weird Vision that she's
01:00:37
going to meet with a tragic accident and die and none of you sat there and said you know what we might want to call
01:00:43
someone and maybe put some tabs on that guy because I feel like that's shady Behavior no they were just like sure
01:00:48
sign it here I'll get my check okay cool it's all money everyone's just like whatever I got paid yep Money Talks damn
01:00:56
no this is what the defense went with the defense explained that cotton was just in Ecentric when it came to
01:01:02
insurance no no he's just exentric nope that's not one of those things he's just
01:01:06
kooky he just you know he just [ __ ] loves Ur loves Ur you guys know Jake from State Farm cotton is kind of like
01:01:13
that you know Cotton Insurance is my Kink kind of guy know not nobody's eccentric when it
01:01:20
comes to life insurance policies an eccentric for life insurance like what hello are we really just giving them
01:01:27
that so we're really just like not taking all the responsibility off of him ridiculous so pointing to the excessive
01:01:34
coverage he'd purchased for his home and car uh they continued to say he was an eccentric but those amounts were also
01:01:42
double the average coverage at the time so he really did put like excess coverage on he is eccentric when it
01:01:48
comes to home insurance and life insurance but if the urgency and amount of coverage cotton had purchased on his
01:01:54
wife's life weren't compelling enough the testimony of the state's Chief witness dick Anderson definitely gave
01:02:01
insight to Cotton's cruelty oh boy on the stand Anderson recalled the attack on Carol and he said she managed to get
01:02:07
out of the tub so I knew I had trouble I was instructed either way so I went to pull the gun so he uh cotton told dick
01:02:16
no matter what happens you pull that trigger and you kill her wow he is so I don't what happens yeah he then
01:02:25
explained dick explained to the jury in no uncertain times that he had been hired by Norman mastrian who was hired
01:02:30
by cotton also according to Anderson there were supposed to be a second murder Anderson quoted Norman as telling
01:02:38
him the broad's father will be next in six or seven months apparently what the [ __ ] they
01:02:44
were going to they were going to kill Carol's dad as well apparently this was Cotton's plan to gain an even greater
01:02:50
access to Carol's family fortune which she would have inherited upon her father's death
01:02:56
I am so if she's dead and her father dies cotton and kids get everything so this guy is a literal [ __ ] monster
01:03:03
yeah like no amount of money would ever satiate that man that's like what is wrong with you like what is wrong with
01:03:11
that's more money than you'll ever be able like what is wrong with you and I just I never understand valuing that
01:03:17
much money over human life like that's the thing and especially and I we always say this I feel like when it comes to a
01:03:24
spouse murdering another spouse but it's like you take vows you walk down the aisle with that person in this case you
01:03:31
procreate multiple multiple times with this person and you don't feel anything that's the thing I'm like you don't feel
01:03:38
any connection to them Drew and I get in a little tiff and I'm like I'm the worst
01:03:42
horrible woman in the world and I feel so bad like what you don't feel anything that's what I don't get like I'm like I
01:03:52
I could never I can't imagine CA harm to John No or having someone else cause harm to John emotionally
01:04:03
physically anything anything but for money like I and it like I just can't I can't even picture I can't even picture
01:04:12
the thinking that money is going to like like that you're going to hold that money and feel good like what is wrong
01:04:18
with you I think he you have to be dead inside you have to be dead inside this guy has to be dead inside 100 % and and
01:04:27
also like to kill your wife one is absolutely just like Unthinkable then to kill her grieving father six or seven
01:04:35
months later you're first of all you're going to make him wait six or seven months and then secondly you're also
01:04:40
killing her father like what so her poor mother has just lost her daughter and her husband yeah Jesus so cotton
01:04:48
Thompson did testify on his own behalf essentially telling the court that he had nothing to do with his wife's murder
01:04:54
and that the extent of his relationship ship with Norman Mastery and was just an
01:04:57
adviser one year earlier but he didn't really say much else to convince the jury that he had no connection to the
01:05:02
murder instead the defense the defense just argued that the jury couldn't trust a chain of circumstantial evidence and
01:05:08
the testimony of criminals who had all turned on each other in exchange for lighter
01:05:13
sentences but on December 7th 1963 the jury deliberated for more than 26 hours before emerging to announce that they
01:05:21
found T Eugene Cotton Thompson guilty yeah of the first degree murder of his wife Carol Thompson bye [ __ ] and when
01:05:30
asked about how they arrived at the verdict one juror said there was no one primary reason for our verdict we
01:05:35
thought uh we thought of the case as a whole and after waving his right to a delay in sentencing judge Ral Ralph
01:05:42
falson immediately sentenced cotton to life in prison which at the time was the required sentence in cases of um
01:05:49
premeditated murder in Minnesota rot [ __ ] rot and in the months that followed Norman mastrian and Dick
01:05:56
Anderson were both tried and both were found guilty of first-degree murder meaning they both also got life
01:06:01
sentences as you should now cotton appealed his conviction of course shut up he appealed to the state supreme
01:06:07
court in 1966 arguing for a new trial on the grounds that he had been convicted on false testimony provided by several
01:06:14
of his criminal co-conspirators but the Supreme Court upheld the lower Court's decision and denied the motion for a new
01:06:21
trial he did end up being paroled in 1983 what and tried to reconnect with his family but he was never very
01:06:28
successful Jeff Thompson later said it's very hard for a child to have a parent in prison but once he got out we never
01:06:34
had much of a relationship I think based on my experience with Minnesota's criminal justice system that the jury
01:06:40
did the right thing wow Jeff is like a very he's a a really good person he's elevated higher yeah than than you know
01:06:50
most people like that is that's Carol's son I was going to say that is Carol son
01:06:54
that's Carol son that's not C I mean it is you yes now Just for kicks on August 7th 2015 on his 88th birthday cotton
01:07:06
Thompson died in his sleep after struggling with failing health for several years and if that's not the
01:07:12
universe saying haa especially on his birthday CU I was like I do hate that he got to die peacefully in his sleep and I
01:07:19
hate that he lived 88 years like that's a long ass life got to like at least be out yeah that pisses me off
01:07:26
he got a lot of time on the other side rest in [ __ ] distress and the universe is always going to get you she
01:07:32
going to die on your birthday some [ __ ] [ __ ] okay wow I told you it's it's one of
01:07:38
those cases that just starts and doesn't stop it doesn't stop like not one and poor Carol and her kids and that's the
01:07:46
thing like her kids just went to school that day yeah and had no idea and Jeff poor Jeff his dad told him lock that
01:07:53
door and then he spent the what if I had locked that door like why did my dad make Meck I can't imagine the
01:08:01
psychological Dage that would do to you that's the thing like you'd be constantly thinking like why didn't I
01:08:06
just ignore that but it's like but it's like why would you why would you ever ignore and especially in 1963 you're not
01:08:11
disobeying your father when he tells you to do something so definitely not like that was just you did what you were told
01:08:18
by a parent who is supposed to be a safe place and that you were supposed to feel
01:08:22
comfortable doing what you're told to and why would you question that you know like they he said like they never locked
01:08:27
that door so he did kind of question it but he's not going to allowed question it and he's not going to sit there and
01:08:32
think okay he's having me lock that because he's going to have my mom killed and he doesn't want her to escape that's
01:08:37
not going to be in your head you could never come up with that that's your worst nightmare that's an awful awful
01:08:42
case such a sad case too because you in the begin like when I started reading about this case I was like oh like she's
01:08:48
going to live she's going to pull through she through it's just so sad but she was a fighter she fought hard to
01:08:55
think that she literally dragged herself or crawled a block away after sustaining
01:09:01
what she sustained yeah running around that house multiple times getting out of the bathtub like oh my God she's
01:09:08
unbelievable truly damn but what a tragic case it really is but um as always we hope you keep listening and we
01:09:16
hope you keep it we but it's we that you go and take out eight life insurance policies on your wife because somebody
01:09:23
these days is going to say hey that's weird and you're not just eccentric and I'm going to call somebody yep and if
01:09:28
you work at a life insurance company call somebody call somebody say hey this guy just took out eight life insurance
01:09:33
policies on his wife and that's kind of weird and he needs him within 11 months cuz he had a premonition that she's
01:09:38
going to die unexpectedly in a tragic accident yeah and obviously I know they're not all from the same life
01:09:42
insurance company but still it's [ __ ] weird okay bye [Music]