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hello Brethren happy after the holidays
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it's after the holidays now not now
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technically here but where you are in
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the future in the
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future it's after the holidays and we
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have a little business before we tell
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you why we're re releasing this specific
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episode there is a reason for the season
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turn turn turn and Ash is really good at
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business business is my middle name also
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admin she stands on it Nicole is also my
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real middle name in case you wondering
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don't steal it uh so anyway I don't know
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don't use it for bad just don't steal it
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okay everybody a middle name is like let
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me maintain my middle
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name let me anyway back to the business
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next listener Tale episode is going to
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be available on all platforms with video
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on YouTube on January 2nd whoa whoa so I
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think we're doing two installments of
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listener Tales for January because of
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you know the holiday you know the first
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one that we're releasing in January on
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the second with video on YouTube is
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funny the
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costumes it's funny all the other ones
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dead
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serious but this one funny funnier than
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the last one I might add maybe I don't
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know we haven't even done it yet that's
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a pretty tall order well whatever but
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anyway Elena back to you tell them why
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we're releasing this episode The Lady of
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the dunes so this was a crazy like
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mysterious case there wasn't an answer
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for it unsolved was one of those you
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might say it's it was unsolved but you
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can't say that anymore don't say that
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can't say that anymore because there's
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an update to the case we know who did it
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now we know who did it we know who the
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lady of the dunes is and I'm not going
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to spoil anything for you but because we
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did a whole episode to update you guys
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on it but if you need a refresher here
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it is listen to the lady of the dunes
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say oh my goodness will we ever know
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what happened there and then you can say
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we do we do and then go to the next
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episode and bada boo B which will be
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next Monday there you go there's the
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update so this is pretty fun it's a
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little gift to you it was a gift from
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the universe to the whole world to know
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who this woman was and to know what
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happened to her so we're passing it
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Forward enjoy please enjoy bye
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hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this
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is morbid and it's local to
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[Music]
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Massachusetts the way you said and it's
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local to Massachusetts hello
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I get excited about these you should I
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do I like covering ones from
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Massachusetts it's kind of my thing it's
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kind of your thing well do we have any
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business before we stay in Massachusetts
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before we stay in Massachusetts so one
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weird thing happened that kind of goes
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along with this episode because it
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happened in Massachusetts it happened in
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provinc town didn't it it did it
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happened in actually it happened in Cape
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Cod yeah but uh like so right around
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there yeah but yeah this guy Michael
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Packard who is like a veteran Lobster d
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which Lobster fisherman wild no joke we
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have a cousin that's a lobster fisherman
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we do who's a lobsterman shout out to
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Annie to Annie yeah it's it's a badass
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job it is a very dangerous job and uh
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this guy Michael Packard uh got
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swallowed by a humpback whale and then
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spit out I mean we're we're happy for
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the latter part of that story very happy
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for the ending imagine having that life
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experience well and I guess like his
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crewmate was on the boat and this guy
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was going down to check the traps and he
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said he just watches like the bubbles to
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make sure that he's like still alive
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essentially and he said all of a sudden
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he saw this like crazy explosion of
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Bubbles and he's like oh my God he he
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died and I can't do anything about it
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like literally just heless and the guy I
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guess thought it was a shark that had
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got him so he was like oh I'm dead like
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he was like this is it he said I'm done
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I'm dead all I could think about was my
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boys they're 12 and 15 years old which
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like kills me and he was breathing
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through like a breathing regulator at
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the time what inside of a hump back
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whale well not a humpback I made that up
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he said no it was a humpback whale yeah
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it was a humpback whale it's the morning
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it is and apparently he was like
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struggling because he was breathing
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through that apparatus so he was
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struggling and the whale was like wow I
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didn't mean to eat you like you're not
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what I eat right and so the I think the
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whale like felt bad that he had eaten
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him and so he brought him to the surface
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to spit him out we love a whale we love
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a whale which I guess he said within
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like 30 30 seconds he said but he said
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for a brief moment he thinks he was
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swallowed well he yeah he must have been
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like not just hanging out in his mouth
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what the [ __ ] isn't that [ __ ] up can
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you imagine going home and like your
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wife is like hey how was your day at
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work and you're like oh actually I got
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swallowed by a humpback whale how was
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your day sweetie I got swallowed by a
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humpback wh they initially thought he uh
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he had broken both of his legs yeah and
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they were like he at least broke one he
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apparently didn't break any bones when
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he went to the hospital yeah he went to
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the hospital he just had uh soft tissue
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damage oh yeah what the [ __ ] and I guess
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an expert said that humpback whales are
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like gulp feeders like they just slurp
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and gulp they just get as much as they
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can down so this was definitely like an
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accident he just happened to be there
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and I think he was just gulping up food
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and
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I think that happens in Finding Nemo
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like actually yeah and then there's I
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guess there's um a Marine Mammal expert
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Peter Corrin and he's from the New
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England Aquarium which our cousin worked
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at hey I was just there the other day
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yeah she's amazing and he works there
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and he was saying that the basically him
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the the whale bringing him to the
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surface to spit him out he said it's
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perfectly believable that the whale was
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trying to help him shut up I love this
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whale because there's evidence that say
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that humpbacks can be altruistic towards
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humans shut the [ __ ] up it's like how um
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elephants think we're cute yes yeah I
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love that [ __ ] love animals and not that
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I want to get swallowed by a humpback
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whale but like wow love it but I think
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it was just like it was a whoops moment
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for that whale it was embarrassing and
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he decided that he was going to try to
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make good at the end it was embarrassing
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he was probably really shamed imagine
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having that under your belt for two
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truths and a lie yeah I was born here I
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like the color blue and I was swallowed
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by back whale and they're like okay
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that's the line you're like I actually
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love the color red I hate blue like what
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the [ __ ] that's an amazing story I
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thought I had a good one mine is just
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that I was born in Hawaii people are
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always like that's the lie and you're
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like no but I was not swallowed by
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humpback you not maybe I'll still use it
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in true truths in a lie though I think
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it's a good one and you know what
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Michael Packard I'm really glad that
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you're okay congrats yeah congrats and
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make sure you tell your boys because
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they're going to love that story also
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are you going to go back to Lobster I'm
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sure he will probably will those people
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are always just badass yeah they're just
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they don't care like that's just they
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know the ocean they know the dangers of
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the ocean and they're just like yeah
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yeah I'm okay like I think at one point
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he was like at least it wasn't a shark
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which you're like yeah but it was still
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a whale that swallowed you yeah like you
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were in the bell of a whale yeah that's
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scary that's crazy also it took
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everything in me and now I just like
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can't get past it when you said like
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whales are gulp feeders I was going to
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say same yeah I figured and I couldn't
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let that joke go I figured you had to
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bring it right back it's different after
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the fact but it still hits it
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does you're welcome I think a lot of
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people can relate yeah uh but yeah so
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that brings us nicely into the episode
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today which is which is the crazy
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mysterious and gruesome case of the lady
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of the dunes and unsolved very unsolved
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uh and now I want to solve it whenever I
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get into one of these cases really hard
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I'm like well you know things do happen
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after we cover cases sometimes freaks me
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out I feel like this is it remind this
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reminds me of like the Karina Homer case
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the way I want to I want to solve it
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like I really want to solve that case
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and I really want to solve this case and
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they're both Massachusetts I solved the
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Kina Homer rce uh yeah I know who did it
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I Know What You Did Last Summer but I
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want it like salt like I want it you
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want a real detective I need to know
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more information we need to solve this
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citizen detective stuff style let's do
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it we're going to solve this did you
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hear us and we'll go we'll Sol this we
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should just get like a true crime Squad
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together let's do it turny like she's
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clearly doing the damn thing SAR Sarah
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turny you're on the squad we have to get
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Bailey s in because we're newly best
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friends yeah and she can make us look
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good too yes wow we're doing this yeah I
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think that's honestly that's the Dream
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Team it really is I'm sure we'll think
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of more later we'll add to the squad
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because it's early and I I mean the
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entire morbid network has to come
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exactly everybody everybody all right so
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guys let's pack your bags come to
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Massachusetts we're doing this see you
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soon we're going to solve the lady of
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the dunes case but let me tell you about
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it first so that you can you guys can
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decide afterwards if you want to join
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the squad yeah so first of all if you
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happen to have any information about
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this case because it is a pretty
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well-known case especially around here
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uh you can direct any tips any
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information anything that your
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grandparents may have slipped out at
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some point at dinner time at
00:10:00
at the table if they sat there and they
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told you that one time they were in p
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toown and it was July it was hot and I
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stumbled upon this dead body here's
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where you can tell the Provincetown
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Police Department 508 4871 1212 or 58-
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4871 1213 or if you have any any
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information about the unidentified body
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that we are going to talk about call the
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office of the chief medical examiner at
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61726773800
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767 a so make sure you call those if you
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have any information so I'm going to
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start this off with a quick little quote
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that's going to like Summit up for you
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what we're going to talk about all
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righty for the last 47 years
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investigators have been struggling to
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identify the lady of the dunes a
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handless corpse that was found nearly
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decapitated on a Massachusetts Beach so
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that's going to tell you everything you
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need to know about where it is whoop
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there it is now it is wild to me it's
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always wild to me when we can't find who
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did something even if we have the
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identity of the victim because it's like
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people should never be able to get away
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with this stuff especially now right but
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we don't even know who she is that's the
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thing that is nuts to me is that we
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don't know who this woman is I know no
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one's been able to identify her it's so
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scary and when I start telling you who
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she was where how she was found you're
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going to see that it's strange because
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as they say multiple times she seems
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well taken care of right you know like
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she doesn't she didn't come across as
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somebody who was like you know going
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from place to place or down on luck down
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on their luck or not maybe wasn't
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connected to people she seemed like she
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interacted with people quite often okay
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so what happened was a bit after 6:00
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p.m. on Friday July 26
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1974 a 12-year-old girl named Leslie
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metf was at race Point Dunes in p toown
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uh she was following a barking dog it
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was a beagle and she had been with
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friends at the beach Leslie's sister
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Alysa had said in an interview later
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that she was at the Stables that day but
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her sister and some friends had gone to
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the beach to play they had been hanging
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around and at a dune Shack that a f that
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family friends were renting and a dune
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Shack is exactly what it sounds like but
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they were originally built like a
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century ago um or Cent a a century a
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century earlier than like 1974
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um but they were originally built as
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cabins for like these Crews of people
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who would keep watch for ships so they
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wouldn't run a ground in bad water in
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bad weather and they're just they're
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exactly what they sound like just little
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Shacks all across the dunes yeah now
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after a while they turn them into like
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Beach Rentals and places where like
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local artists or like you know creators
00:12:52
of any kind could set up and sell their
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wees out of they're all over the place
00:12:57
in btown exactly and on the in general
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exactly now her parents were there as
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well and there were two dogs in this
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Shack when they were all ready to head
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home they were just going to walk across
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the beach and the dunes and go back home
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they started walking and one of the dogs
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the beagle followed them which was fine
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he was just walking down the beach with
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them but then he kind of veered off the
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path and started barking wildly like
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clearly trying to tell them something he
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was very clearly indicating something he
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had found right that was for sure so
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Leslie was like hm what cuz she's 12 and
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I want to know what that dog's doing I
00:13:32
mean I'm 35 and I'd be like H I want to
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find out what that dog is barking at and
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she followed him as I would and when she
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ran off the Beaten Track after the dog
00:13:41
she quickly noticed a motionless form
00:13:44
laying in the dunes oh my goodness and
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she it was surrounded by Tall Grass mhm
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now she said she thought the body
00:13:51
initially was a deer at first not a
00:13:53
mannequin this time not a mannequin she
00:13:55
thought it was a deer and she said you
00:13:57
know she was upset enough about possib
00:13:59
running into a dead or hurt deer that's
00:14:01
still shitty of course but then she saw
00:14:04
the form completely she made out some
00:14:07
legs and feet and she saw hair tied up
00:14:09
into a ponytail and caked with blood oh
00:14:12
my goodness and she realized that she
00:14:14
was looking at a human body this poor
00:14:15
little 12-year-old finding that she
00:14:18
could also smell the scent of
00:14:20
decomposition nearby like you know she
00:14:22
had been there for a while in the Summer
00:14:23
Sun so she was
00:14:26
baking what had happened though was it
00:14:29
was really hot it's hot summers here and
00:14:31
on pet town and it's right next to the
00:14:34
it's on the beach right next to the
00:14:36
water Massachusetts water is not like
00:14:39
Crystal Clear Caribbean water love that
00:14:42
dirty water so that smell of like the
00:14:45
the ocean and all that is can be gnarly
00:14:48
and but it's something you just expect
00:14:51
here like that you're going to have that
00:14:53
beach smell get hit in the face with
00:14:54
like red tide exactly so it's like so
00:14:57
this smell of this composing woman in
00:15:00
the Sun for what they think could have
00:15:01
been you know up to more than a week wow
00:15:05
I didn't know it was that long yeah they
00:15:06
think it was just kind of mixing with
00:15:08
the which tells you something about what
00:15:10
the ocean smells like here that people
00:15:12
were just like man well there's probably
00:15:14
like mad bodies in our oceans too so
00:15:17
yeah there definitely are um so she yeah
00:15:20
so she could definitely smell it the
00:15:21
closer she got and their parents said
00:15:25
that all they heard was her say Mom Dad
00:15:29
like she didn't scream she just said
00:15:32
mom so her parents went to see what was
00:15:34
wrong and they discovered the body yikes
00:15:37
so this body was only found about a mile
00:15:40
away from the provinc toown police
00:15:41
station oh wow which is interesting now
00:15:44
they immediately ran to the Dune Shack
00:15:46
that they had been at and they contacted
00:15:48
the Rangers uh Leslie's recollection was
00:15:51
that the clothing on scene was very
00:15:53
neatly folded and placed under This
00:15:55
Woman's head she could see some clothing
00:15:58
and she said she immediately saw that
00:15:59
this woman was naked that her hands she
00:16:02
didn't see initially that they were
00:16:04
missing we'll get into that but she said
00:16:06
her hands were buried in the in the sand
00:16:08
gotcha uh luckily Leslie didn't see that
00:16:10
the head was almost decapitated she said
00:16:13
she seemed like she almost looked like
00:16:15
she was asleep and sunbathing in the
00:16:17
nude which did it seem like she was face
00:16:18
down she was face down she was all all
00:16:21
the way face down um apparently the
00:16:23
family friends who had rented the Dune
00:16:25
Shack that summer said they never rented
00:16:27
that Shack again they they never
00:16:29
returned to the dunes again because they
00:16:30
were so disturbed by this whole thing
00:16:32
yeah I would be too and um Leslie's
00:16:34
sister Alysa said their family had been
00:16:36
visiting P toown for years at this point
00:16:39
and um it was a very safe area yeah
00:16:42
especially then it was like very safe I
00:16:45
mean kids could walk around without
00:16:46
their parents they could run around on
00:16:48
beaches and in the dunes to play No One
00:16:50
thought anything of it it's it's that
00:16:52
whole thing of like quiet quaint little
00:16:54
town nothing ever New England town it's
00:16:57
like every and it's it is this is weird
00:17:01
um so Alyssa the sister also said that
00:17:04
no one really interviewed them about
00:17:05
their experience the family and likely
00:17:08
just went off of the Ranger story for
00:17:11
details um usually papers and stories
00:17:14
say that Leslie was walking her dog and
00:17:16
just came across the body but that's not
00:17:18
accurate and I did find many stories
00:17:21
that started off with a 12-year-old girl
00:17:23
walking her dog and that's wrong I know
00:17:25
it's not like totally pertinent to the
00:17:28
INF like that she was chasing a dog that
00:17:30
wasn't hers walking still you should get
00:17:31
the information but it makes it seem
00:17:32
like this 12-year-old girl was just
00:17:34
alone walking her dog and stumbled
00:17:36
across it and that's just not what
00:17:37
happened well like to not mention that
00:17:39
the parents also saw something exactly
00:17:41
because I guess I think the reason that
00:17:43
they probably do that is like oh it's a
00:17:44
12 year-old so like that's why we didn't
00:17:45
really interview her exactly we just let
00:17:47
it go and it's like H so park ranger
00:17:50
James henkins was the first officer
00:17:52
arriving on scene and he said she was
00:17:55
laying face down naked on a green Beach
00:17:58
Blanket he could see red hair and that
00:18:01
she had been severely beaten over the
00:18:03
head oh man uh she was also seemingly
00:18:05
missing her hands he said they were not
00:18:07
buried he and other media Outlets said
00:18:10
the hands were shoved into the Sands
00:18:12
with pine needle piles around them like
00:18:15
her arms like where her hand should be
00:18:17
and it made it look like she was doing
00:18:19
push-ups weird yeah and he was quoted as
00:18:23
saying it was ghastly it was as if she
00:18:25
had been laying there alone or on a
00:18:26
blanket with someone and someone came up
00:18:28
and clubbed her there was no signs of a
00:18:30
struggle even the sand hadn't been
00:18:32
Disturbed wow that's so weird and that's
00:18:35
something that a lot of people talk
00:18:37
about is there was Zero sign of struggle
00:18:40
people say it did not look like she was
00:18:44
fought here it didn't look like it
00:18:45
looked like she was there and was caught
00:18:48
off guard well and there for like for
00:18:49
there to not be like even like maybe
00:18:51
blood splatter on the sand like that's
00:18:54
weird it's wild it's really wild and I
00:18:56
think there was like definitely like
00:18:58
blood spatter and stuff but you could
00:19:02
tell she didn't fight back so she was
00:19:04
definitely caught off guard caught off
00:19:06
guard which it's like was she asleep
00:19:09
that's what the that's honestly what a
00:19:10
lot of people think is that she was
00:19:12
asleep well and I feel like that's kind
00:19:13
of an area too where you would go to
00:19:15
sleep cuz like you don't have to worry
00:19:16
about the water like the tide changing
00:19:18
anything like that you're in the Tall
00:19:20
Grass exactly she was hidden enough that
00:19:22
she could have been sunbathing in the
00:19:23
nude exactly like hiding in the nude and
00:19:26
just kind of fell asleep yeah and it's
00:19:28
like but what who what happened were you
00:19:31
with someone right so like I said she
00:19:34
there was some clothing that were found
00:19:37
there was a pair of Wrangler jeans that
00:19:39
were folded up like a pillow under her
00:19:41
head which to me says she went to sleep
00:19:44
with those under her head for like a
00:19:46
pillow and there was also a blue bandana
00:19:48
under her head and she was laying
00:19:50
halfway on a light green blanket Like a
00:19:52
Beach Blanket um the uh Warren Tobias
00:19:56
who was the retired acting police chief
00:19:58
in provinc toown said she was definitely
00:20:01
posed there she was lying out on a beach
00:20:03
towel as if she was sunbathing so he
00:20:06
doesn't think that she was asleep she
00:20:07
was either posed there or that's like
00:20:11
where she what she was doing when it
00:20:12
happened gotcha he could so James uh
00:20:15
James henin the ranger called
00:20:18
Provincetown police chief at the time
00:20:20
James Jimmy Mees at home because they
00:20:22
were friends they and actually I guess
00:20:24
mes had given henkins like some extra
00:20:28
responsibilities like he could kind of
00:20:31
like do more than a normal Ranger could
00:20:33
because he was like trustworthy okay so
00:20:35
he called him at home and he was like
00:20:37
you got to get down here now Province
00:20:40
Town police chief James Jimmy Mees felt
00:20:42
like it was his duty to solve this case
00:20:46
like oh so he was so trustworthy he well
00:20:48
no this was the police chief oh well
00:20:50
that's good he's trustworthy too he felt
00:20:52
very connected to this case and he took
00:20:54
every opportunity to push it forward and
00:20:57
like really push down door to get things
00:20:59
done for this case like he had a
00:21:01
forensics team come together at one
00:21:03
point to create composits and claim
00:21:05
models of her likeness he literally said
00:21:07
he wouldn't retire until he found out
00:21:10
who she was and for years he actually
00:21:12
had her skull in his office as a
00:21:15
reminder to himself that she was unnamed
00:21:18
and can't be forgotten wow that is a
00:21:20
dedication he also got her dental
00:21:23
records and all information published
00:21:25
anywhere he could and constantly brought
00:21:27
up her case in any interview he did
00:21:30
anywhere he could he was really trying
00:21:32
to keep her case in the Forefront and
00:21:34
make sure she was not forgotten it's so
00:21:36
interesting that they did get her dental
00:21:38
records but like or like oh yeah and
00:21:40
we'll get into it don't worry cuz she
00:21:42
has very specific dental records too
00:21:44
which makes it even weirder weird I'm I
00:21:46
love this so he said quote with most
00:21:49
murders you try to figure out who the
00:21:51
murderer was I've spent years trying to
00:21:53
figure out who the victim was as the
00:21:55
years dwindle on more dentists will
00:21:57
retire or die
00:21:59
more dental records will be lost and the
00:22:01
opportunity for identification will
00:22:02
diminish maybe someone on death row will
00:22:05
decide to cleanse his soul before he
00:22:07
dies and confess to the murder it
00:22:09
appears that someday soon I'll retire
00:22:11
and the case won't be solved but I'm
00:22:13
sure whoever follows me in this job if
00:22:15
they get a lead they'll call me and I'll
00:22:17
be ready oh and each chief after him
00:22:21
have all made it a priority to bring
00:22:23
this case back up and try and solve it
00:22:26
every single case I'm glad every chief
00:22:28
after after him has been like priority
00:22:29
number one is solving this case yeah so
00:22:32
when me showed up after henkins called
00:22:35
him he showed up with two other
00:22:36
detectives that evening and he saw the
00:22:39
scene and he said immediately his head
00:22:42
went to Tony Chop Chop Costa hey we know
00:22:46
all about Tony Chop Chop we do if you
00:22:48
remember we did an episode about Tony
00:22:50
Chop Chop Costa another killer in
00:22:53
Provincetown and if you I don't know if
00:22:55
anybody caught that Jimmy mes is kind of
00:22:58
a a familiar name I thought it was but
00:23:01
then I didn't know if I like knew
00:23:02
somebody like personally with that name
00:23:04
yep see mes was in our our Costa episode
00:23:07
I thought so yeah uh he had actually
00:23:09
known Costa since he was young when he
00:23:11
moved to Ptown and he mes had been the
00:23:14
one to recruit Costa as a drug informant
00:23:17
before he turned into a seral because of
00:23:20
his help in the drug informant cases mes
00:23:23
wrote him a letter to get him early
00:23:25
parole when he was in jail for
00:23:26
non-payment of Child Support and he cuz
00:23:29
he basically wrote the letter to get him
00:23:31
out so he could use him as a police uh
00:23:33
drug enant uh but five so he got him out
00:23:38
five months early in November 1968 and
00:23:41
two months after he was let out he
00:23:43
murdered Pat Walsh and maryan Yaki right
00:23:46
so mes was part of the investigation she
00:23:49
he actually spoke to Patricia Morton who
00:23:51
was the rooming house owner who told him
00:23:54
that uh Marian Waki and Pat Walsh had
00:23:57
spent two nights at her room in house
00:23:59
and that a man named Tony Costa had also
00:24:01
been staying there at the same time she
00:24:03
had told him that they had interacted
00:24:05
and that she had not seen the girls in a
00:24:07
few days and as we know Tony had killed
00:24:10
them both right so that's a bummer so
00:24:12
that's why their head immediately went
00:24:14
to Tony exactly so and it's very much
00:24:16
like the dismemberment and stuff is very
00:24:19
Tony Costa Tony Chop Chop Costa but not
00:24:22
like him sorry I'm probably jumping
00:24:24
ahead of you oh no well well the big
00:24:26
main thing was immediately he thought of
00:24:27
Tony chop job but then he realized it
00:24:29
couldn't be him because he had killed
00:24:31
himself May 12th 1974 all right well
00:24:34
that's out so it couldn't be him and I
00:24:36
was going to say he didn't leave people
00:24:37
out in the open he would have buried
00:24:39
them in like the garden thing that he
00:24:41
had yeah he liked to do his little
00:24:42
garden his Tony Garden yeah they
00:24:44
searched the surrounding areas around
00:24:46
the scene for days and they found
00:24:48
literally nothing not a shred of
00:24:51
evidence that's crazy they even used
00:24:52
blood hounds nothing hit couldn't find
00:24:55
anything I mean it must be hard on the
00:24:57
beach too because like Wind Blows and
00:25:00
the sand moves you know like I can't IM
00:25:02
abolutely it embes things and it's like
00:25:04
and then there water involved it's just
00:25:05
all this it's like the worst thing ever
00:25:07
so the autopsy was done Saturday July
00:25:10
27th
00:25:12
1974 uh what it what it came out was she
00:25:15
was about 56 135 lbs and estimated to be
00:25:19
between 25 and 40 years old her build
00:25:23
was described as an athletic build uh
00:25:26
she had long hair that was reddish or
00:25:28
descri described as Auburn in a lot of
00:25:29
places it was in a ponytail uh they
00:25:32
couldn't actually determine what color
00:25:34
her eyes are because of decomposition oh
00:25:37
wow so what happens is when you die you
00:25:39
stop blinking and so you don't produce
00:25:42
any kind of moisture in your eyes and
00:25:44
there is no more blood circulation to
00:25:46
help with all that so there's no Oxygen
00:25:48
coming into your eyes once you're dead
00:25:50
because the cornea needs to be moist for
00:25:52
oxygen to absorb into it and lack of
00:25:55
oxygen affects the opacity of your of
00:25:58
your cornea oh uh and the lens so it
00:26:02
doesn't change the color of the eye
00:26:04
technically but if you're looking at it
00:26:06
it will appear bluish or white or like
00:26:08
even gray It's like because it'll be
00:26:10
cloudy yeah it'll have that cloudy Haze
00:26:13
over it yeah that's so weird I never
00:26:15
knew that before yeah it's like a weird
00:26:17
thing so sometimes it can be especially
00:26:18
after if they they've been out for a
00:26:21
while that's really going to they're
00:26:22
going to have cloudy eyes it's just way
00:26:24
that's so frustrating too when you're
00:26:25
dealing with like an unidentified body
00:26:27
yeah exactly
00:26:28
so she also had pink toenail polish on
00:26:31
oh girl I know that always gets me it
00:26:33
does ever since the Willie picked an
00:26:35
episode cuz you had said one of the
00:26:36
girls was found with red toenail polish
00:26:38
I paint my toes red all the time and I
00:26:40
always think of it now cuz you always
00:26:42
think cuz I think that too doing
00:26:44
autopsies I say it a lot that like
00:26:46
little things always make me think like
00:26:48
oh you had no idea that was the last
00:26:51
time you were going to paint your nails
00:26:52
you know it's like such a personal thing
00:26:54
that like you just do like you don't
00:26:56
paint your nails thinking of dying it's
00:26:58
like a self-care thing so it's like they
00:27:00
just they either you or someone painted
00:27:02
your toenails just and you had no idea
00:27:05
that that was the last time you would do
00:27:06
that and it's sad it freaks me out it
00:27:08
always gets me now now we're going to
00:27:10
get into her teeth okay cuz I'm
00:27:12
interested she had lots of teeth missing
00:27:15
but they are fairly sure that this was
00:27:18
from the murder or circumstances but not
00:27:21
circumstances before the murder they
00:27:23
think that this was on purpose that her
00:27:25
teeth are missing uh she had a lot of of
00:27:28
gold crowns in her teeth huh estimated
00:27:31
between $5,000 and $10,000 worth of
00:27:35
dental work in
00:27:36
her um they actually sent out her dental
00:27:39
records to dentists all over
00:27:41
Massachusetts and the country also the
00:27:44
FBI and the Royal Canadian Mounted
00:27:46
Police wow and they didn't get anything
00:27:49
nothing what that is nuts to me nothing
00:27:53
I'm like what and they think that the
00:27:55
missing teeth were pulled out for
00:27:59
that they pulled them out intentionally
00:28:00
I remember hearing that and how are
00:28:04
there I don't know if you know this are
00:28:05
there certain teeth that are better for
00:28:08
identification I don't think so I think
00:28:10
it's more dental work just me General
00:28:12
unless all I can think about is if she
00:28:16
had some kind of like maybe she had one
00:28:21
tooth that severely overlapped another
00:28:23
one that would be like very identifiable
00:28:26
like if she had some really really
00:28:29
identifiable specific to her thing that
00:28:31
they wanted to remove for that yeah but
00:28:35
like to just the teeth themselves
00:28:37
there's I think that it's just really
00:28:38
the dental work that you're looking for
00:28:40
well and then does that say to you that
00:28:41
this is probably somebody who's like
00:28:42
killed before because they know that and
00:28:44
they're like that like callous to
00:28:47
freaking pull a tooth yes because when
00:28:50
we get into the hands those hands were
00:28:53
definitely taken off to take away
00:28:54
fingerprints right so this is somebody
00:28:56
who knows how to take away
00:28:58
identification and did a great job
00:28:59
because we can't identify her so clearly
00:29:01
has probably done this before I feel
00:29:03
like that I feel like that I think so
00:29:05
that's this is a one-off experienced
00:29:07
level of mua and we're going to get at
00:29:10
the end of this episode we'll talk about
00:29:11
the theories who who has been brought up
00:29:13
over the years and maybe talk about who
00:29:15
we think could be it um she was also
00:29:18
sexually assaulted with a wooden block
00:29:21
but they think it was done postmortem
00:29:24
which is terrible regardless but um her
00:29:27
hands were cut off like I said one at
00:29:29
the forearm and one at the wrist so no
00:29:32
fingerprints to identify her obviously
00:29:35
where her hands would have been whoever
00:29:37
placed her there had piled on pine
00:29:39
needles like intentionally the left side
00:29:42
of her head had been crushed in like an
00:29:44
eggshell they said the medical examiner
00:29:47
said it looked like the blow had
00:29:49
happened from someone lying next to her
00:29:51
or when she was asleep there wasn't any
00:29:53
signs of struggle she was on one side of
00:29:55
the blanket so it seemed likely that she
00:29:58
may have known her killer M or was at
00:30:00
least slightly comfortable with them and
00:30:02
was asleep and didn't see it coming yeah
00:30:05
so it's either she was asleep didn't see
00:30:08
it coming and didn't know the person or
00:30:11
she was on that blanket with someone
00:30:13
someone and they and she fell asleep or
00:30:15
was just lying there and they took her
00:30:17
out she was almost decapitated they
00:30:20
thought this was due to a combination of
00:30:22
multiple strangle strangulation attempts
00:30:25
and also um that blow to the Head it was
00:30:28
done with a tool which um is called a
00:30:30
military entrenchment Tool uh and that
00:30:33
was actually the cause of death was the
00:30:35
Blow To The Head yeah I would think so
00:30:37
the military entrenchment tool is a
00:30:39
collapsible Spade kind of thing used by
00:30:42
military and like survivalists it's
00:30:44
really sharp and usually made of like
00:30:46
steel and [ __ ] oh okay um so I think it
00:30:49
was James henkins yeah that said quote
00:30:52
the only instrument that could have been
00:30:53
used to hack off her hands was an
00:30:55
instrument carried by almost all Dune
00:30:57
bugs
00:30:59
interesting it was common in all s
00:31:01
surplus stores it was a handy tool for a
00:31:03
camper it was a folding shovel called an
00:31:06
entrenching tool it was standard issue
00:31:08
item for anyone in the Infantry soldiers
00:31:11
in World War II and Korea carried them
00:31:13
it was very sturdy made out of heavy
00:31:15
metal semi- pointed Spade likee the
00:31:18
blade could be folded down on the handle
00:31:21
or it could be raised to a perpendicular
00:31:23
like a hoe or you could make it into a
00:31:26
shovel with a straight handle around 18
00:31:28
in long to in hand to-hand combat you
00:31:31
could use it to fight your enemy wow so
00:31:33
this is a versatile tool it is and it
00:31:36
sounds like every dune buggy had one
00:31:39
yeah which is interesting and that it's
00:31:41
a good tool for campers people who camp
00:31:43
out on the dunes people who so this is
00:31:46
opening up like many doors a lot of
00:31:48
doors um there was also a ton of insect
00:31:52
activity on the body um that they notice
00:31:54
and we'll also mention that again after
00:31:56
we talk about the theories
00:31:59
now the stomach contents indicated that
00:32:01
she had recently eaten a meal of burger
00:32:03
and fries got it girl which indicated to
00:32:05
a lot of people that she had been in
00:32:07
town that day maybe at one of the burger
00:32:10
and Fry joints right um she had
00:32:12
estimated to have been dead for at least
00:32:14
10 days but possibly as long as 3 weeks
00:32:18
whoa dude uh they believe she was they
00:32:20
were thinking that she was possibly
00:32:24
killed somewhere else if it's not the
00:32:26
theory of her being a
00:32:28
just because of the lack of stuff at the
00:32:31
crime scene there was blood but like I
00:32:34
think it wasn't as bloody as you would
00:32:35
think it would be at that scene and then
00:32:37
when you get into the insect activity
00:32:39
does that kind of like skew it even more
00:32:41
it's it's honestly it doesn't but it's
00:32:43
like I think they just can't figure it
00:32:45
out yeah they can't figure this out it's
00:32:47
like she looks like she could have been
00:32:49
asleep on that towel on that towel or it
00:32:52
could have been all set up to look like
00:32:54
she was sleeping on that towel because
00:32:56
it almost does seem like too perfect
00:32:58
like Po right yeah cuz it's but it's
00:33:00
like she's on the other thing is she's
00:33:02
on her um she's face down right so it's
00:33:06
like you would sunbathed that way yeah
00:33:09
like you know what I mean like you would
00:33:11
do that but then it's like would
00:33:12
somebody place you face down or would
00:33:15
they place you face up maybe they would
00:33:16
place you face down to make it look like
00:33:18
you had been sunbathing now exactly
00:33:20
right so they probably just don't want
00:33:21
to rule out anything because it be
00:33:24
anything yeah they have no evidence to
00:33:27
say exactly what is going on here which
00:33:29
is I can't imagine working on this case
00:33:31
even just like listening to it is
00:33:32
frustrating frustrating so no missing
00:33:35
persons matched that description none
00:33:38
they searched all local motels and
00:33:40
hotels asked if someone had seen someone
00:33:43
matching that description or if someone
00:33:45
had not returned to their room matching
00:33:46
that description nothing it's like how
00:33:48
is she not connected to anybody that's
00:33:51
the thing and again no fingerprints so
00:33:52
we can't even try that I know now uh a
00:33:55
detective named detective Flynn said
00:33:57
quote it's certainly unusual that no one
00:33:59
misses her she must have had a husband
00:34:02
boyfriend parents someone she had been
00:34:04
pretty well taken care of we know that
00:34:07
so she was like in like in a state where
00:34:10
obviously she had almost $10,000 worth
00:34:12
of dental work in her house right it's
00:34:14
she was not just like floating around
00:34:15
homeless right you try your mind just
00:34:18
goes to all these different things like
00:34:20
I like one of the first things I thought
00:34:22
was like was she like a runaway like and
00:34:24
had been like had run away like a long
00:34:25
time ago and just was making
00:34:28
and not dating anybody like maybe it's I
00:34:31
it's there's so many ways you could go
00:34:34
with it yeah and it's one especially in
00:34:36
the 70s it's like people were like going
00:34:39
off on their own doing things on their
00:34:40
own all the time oh yeah and provinc
00:34:42
toown was like a perfect place to go
00:34:44
just I mean look at Tony Chop Chop that
00:34:46
was like his whole life was just
00:34:47
floating around Province toown so it's
00:34:49
like maybe not like but she's not a
00:34:51
Drifter because she's well taken care of
00:34:53
so exactly it's weird and she must have
00:34:55
been staying somewhere like her hair's
00:34:57
nice it's in a ponytail you know like it
00:34:59
seems yeah they don't describe it as
00:35:01
like unkempt or anything right so it's
00:35:04
it's very strange uh there were two
00:35:07
pairs of footprints seen in the sand
00:35:09
around the scene they appeared to be
00:35:11
heading towards the body but they never
00:35:13
came right up to it hm so that's
00:35:15
interesting um there was also a set of
00:35:17
tire tracks present about 50 yards from
00:35:19
the crime scene but again it could have
00:35:21
been weeks so that could have just been
00:35:23
like a dune buggy yeah so over 30
00:35:26
different police officers searched the
00:35:28
entire cape and they had zero leads zero
00:35:32
I can not imagine now a few years later
00:35:35
they were getting a little desperate so
00:35:37
they sent Jimmy Mees to New York City to
00:35:40
see a psychic named yolana Bard who was
00:35:44
known as the queen of the psychics okay
00:35:46
she had worked on a lot of cases a lot
00:35:48
of well-known people and at this point
00:35:51
they're like can it hurt might as well
00:35:53
just give it a shot sometimes it can
00:35:55
though it can so apparently he placed
00:35:57
things in front of her but they were all
00:35:59
in sealed packages okay so she wouldn't
00:36:02
know what was inside of them it was it
00:36:04
was their test they were like you prove
00:36:05
to me that you the queen so they were
00:36:07
like he was literally like tell me
00:36:09
something if I wanted like tell me
00:36:10
what's going on in one of these so she
00:36:12
stopped over one of them and said I
00:36:14
sense blood in this one and it was an
00:36:17
envelope containing a bloody piece of
00:36:19
evidence from the crime scene but also
00:36:21
like there probably would be blood in
00:36:23
one of them true so but then she said
00:36:25
she saw dripping and she said there was
00:36:27
a be be now she didn't know what what
00:36:30
victim she was talking about she said
00:36:32
there was a beach where the victim was
00:36:33
found and she said their hands were
00:36:36
buried that's what yeah that's huge so
00:36:39
she gave him directions to where the
00:36:41
hands would be found buried wow and he
00:36:44
went back to P toown to look he was like
00:36:46
all right I'm going to go check this out
00:36:48
and he put everything she said together
00:36:49
and decided that the place she was
00:36:51
indicating he thought was a place called
00:36:53
the Ace of Spades which was a bar in
00:36:55
town and it had been a it had been there
00:36:58
for a while and what happened was it the
00:37:01
water I guess dripped onto the beach
00:37:03
from some of the sinks it was like known
00:37:05
that the so the dripping water yeah um
00:37:08
and it all kind of matched up with the
00:37:09
description so he went there and she had
00:37:11
told him that they would be buried like
00:37:13
on in the basement mhm and unfortunately
00:37:16
found out that 2 months earlier they had
00:37:20
cemented the basement oh my God that's
00:37:24
that's also a little we little strange
00:37:26
little strange why are you just
00:37:28
cementing your basement out of nowhere I
00:37:30
Me Maybe you have radon but still maybe
00:37:33
Massachusetts it's old we got lots of
00:37:34
radon coming up in these these random
00:37:37
dirt basements I know so it's really not
00:37:38
that crazy to think it's not but like
00:37:41
but it's curious timing well and he was
00:37:43
thinking he was going to be able to at
00:37:45
least dig around and he couldn't even do
00:37:47
thats uh so James henkins the ranger
00:37:50
said that he had walked away from the
00:37:52
crime scene that night and he noticed
00:37:54
something when he walked away and he
00:37:56
said he didn't say say anything and it's
00:37:58
always bothered him he said he saw
00:38:00
pictures and words drawn in the sand a
00:38:03
little ways away but he said he didn't
00:38:05
it didn't look like kids drawings to him
00:38:07
cuz he was like At first I was like oh
00:38:09
kids draw in the sand all the time it's
00:38:11
the cape like kids are here all day
00:38:13
every day but he was like for some
00:38:14
reason it just didn't ring as kids
00:38:16
drawings to me and he says it always
00:38:18
bothered him because he didn't
00:38:20
investigate it or take a photo because
00:38:23
he was like whoever Drew those things
00:38:25
was definitely close to the body
00:38:27
recently
00:38:28
because they would have been erased by
00:38:29
the wind or the waves if it was done
00:38:31
earlier right so he's like it always
00:38:33
bothered me that I didn't take the
00:38:34
second to go as well I know and the body
00:38:38
was finally ra laid to rest at St
00:38:41
Peter's Cemetery in October
00:38:43
1974 uh her tombstone says unidentified
00:38:46
female body found race Point Dunes oh
00:38:49
that's very sad yeah um and actually
00:38:52
Alyssa met CF and said she and her
00:38:54
sister Leslie who was the one who found
00:38:56
the body would often and go to the
00:38:58
cemetery and visit her grave I love that
00:39:00
and they said they always felt like a
00:39:01
weird connection to her and it always
00:39:04
bothered them that like they still don't
00:39:05
know who she is well and it's like you
00:39:06
have to like respect them like through
00:39:08
the afterlife too you know plant flowers
00:39:10
or something yeah and it's like she's
00:39:12
unidentified right like somebody knows
00:39:14
her and somebody somebody cared about
00:39:16
her you know like who are you who are
00:39:19
you that misses her and hasn't said
00:39:21
anything but in 1987 10 years after this
00:39:25
a Canadian woman came forward and said
00:39:27
said she thought this woman could have
00:39:29
been a victim of her
00:39:31
father's apparently when she was young
00:39:34
which hurts my heart she witnessed her
00:39:37
father strangle a woman while he she was
00:39:40
visiting him in P toown in the 70s oh
00:39:42
[ __ ] now this woman thought that this
00:39:45
was the woman she was like I think I
00:39:47
recognize her as the woman wow so they
00:39:49
get this and they tell mes about it and
00:39:51
he was like I'll go up to Canada and
00:39:53
I'll I'll interview this woman like I'm
00:39:56
going so then they tried to contact her
00:39:58
again to get more information she had
00:40:00
moved out of her home and they literally
00:40:02
couldn't find her again [ __ ] and she
00:40:04
never contacted them again I have
00:40:06
Goosebumps look at my arm
00:40:09
right I mean I feel like it's like
00:40:12
that's really shitty like why would you
00:40:13
call and like get them excited to fix
00:40:15
this Cas obviously that must be like a
00:40:18
really traumatic thing for you to have
00:40:19
to like even call in the first place but
00:40:21
it's like but it's like someone lost
00:40:23
someone and like clearly you were trying
00:40:25
to help so like what made you change
00:40:26
your mind follow through well you have
00:40:28
to wonder like is her dad still was her
00:40:30
dad still alive at that point and like
00:40:32
she got scared and like he found out or
00:40:34
something yeah like did someone find out
00:40:36
in the family and was like you got to be
00:40:37
quiet did he find out there's so much
00:40:40
that could have happened there it's like
00:40:41
we we don't even know I can't find any
00:40:43
information about what this lady's name
00:40:45
is or anything dude imagine if her dad
00:40:47
like found out and he like also killed
00:40:48
her imagine like that's not I need to
00:40:52
tons of digging to find who she was I'm
00:40:54
going to keep digging to find who she
00:40:55
was cuz I swear to you find woman I'm
00:40:58
going to find this woman come on I'm
00:41:01
just going to call Canada hi can it's me
00:41:04
Elena me Elena and I'd like to talk to
00:41:08
any conts in Canada guys we do Elena is
00:41:11
calling 1800 Canada excuse me that's
00:41:13
spooky Johnny and Tyler accurate very
00:41:16
ACC can you help me I meant like
00:41:18
contacts to like the police people yeah
00:41:20
Johnny and Tyler they're very important
00:41:22
people like they can they can help us
00:41:24
out I mean they are VIP they are all
00:41:26
right so John Tyler let's get on this
00:41:28
together more Squad up all right we
00:41:31
we're making this squad huge all right
00:41:34
so we got we got the canadaa squad up so
00:41:36
we're ready I'm dead but then there was
00:41:38
also a Maryland woman who called and
00:41:41
said she thought the woman was her
00:41:43
sister who had she had just moved to
00:41:46
Boston I guess recently and before this
00:41:49
like when this was happening the sister
00:41:51
the sister and suddenly had disappeared
00:41:54
oh and she was spending time in P toown
00:41:56
right cuz very normal [ __ ] no one
00:41:58
knew where she went that year she said
00:42:00
she just disappeared vanished and she
00:42:02
said her sister matched the height
00:42:04
weight and hair color did she say
00:42:06
anything about dental work at all well
00:42:08
that's the important part because mes
00:42:10
actually asked for her sister's dental
00:42:13
records and they were able to ship them
00:42:15
out to mes because he was like let's do
00:42:17
this they weren't a match [ __ ] you no
00:42:20
gold crowns nothing like that wow so
00:42:23
sounded really good and I honestly I
00:42:25
feel bad for the girl the mar woman
00:42:27
because I wonder what happened to her
00:42:29
sister well she probably had like some
00:42:31
ounce of Hope like all some kind of
00:42:33
closure you um the crime scene now is
00:42:38
and at the time was I guess in the 70s
00:42:40
was the biggest tourist attraction was
00:42:43
that place on the dunes and even now
00:42:45
it's a big pull for people I'm also like
00:42:49
I know it's it's one of those things
00:42:50
that it's like you can have a million
00:42:52
opinions about it but it's one of those
00:42:54
things that like it's never going to
00:42:55
stop that kind of like in you know it's
00:42:58
seeing a place like that it's like going
00:43:00
to the Lizzie barding house you know
00:43:01
it's like it's it's not going to it's
00:43:03
like going to in Salem exactly it's it's
00:43:07
morbid curiosity definitely go to Salem
00:43:09
it's amazing oh my God I love Salem so
00:43:11
much love Salem it's also like like I
00:43:13
said in the other episode about it it's
00:43:16
I think it's like a profound experience
00:43:18
going to Salem absolutely when you go to
00:43:20
like the historical places well there's
00:43:21
so many like historical sites like we
00:43:24
went to like at least like 42 when we
00:43:26
were there the other day Massachusetts
00:43:27
has like a lot of good history I think
00:43:29
guys come to Massachusetts if you're
00:43:31
from here you get it hello I'm from the
00:43:33
board of of Taurus tourism I can't speak
00:43:37
I'm from the board of Tourism on Bo on
00:43:39
Ma in Massachusetts come visit
00:43:41
Massachusetts Come Little Children yeah
00:43:45
that was in Massachusetts too see we
00:43:46
have tons of [ __ ] do it all right so
00:43:50
they did exume her body in 1980 2001 and
00:43:55
2013 see that makes me know they have to
00:43:57
but it makes me so sad I know but I'm
00:43:59
one of those I think it's like the
00:44:00
science in me I'm like nope bring them
00:44:02
up we got to look at absolutely but then
00:44:04
you're just like who are you like just
00:44:07
she can't rest in being so Disturbed
00:44:08
yeah you just want her to rest in peace
00:44:10
but they keep you know advances keep
00:44:13
happening in in science and forensic
00:44:15
science so every time something comes up
00:44:17
they're like let's bring her up and see
00:44:18
if we can use this exing her is
00:44:21
eventually to get to the goal of her
00:44:22
resting her resting in peace exactly and
00:44:24
that's always the goal with exing a body
00:44:26
is to eventually get them to rest
00:44:29
forever um but honestly it hasn't
00:44:32
nothing's come up every time they'
00:44:33
brought her up it's nothing is is moving
00:44:36
forward this is the strangest case now a
00:44:39
woman who people might know named Sandra
00:44:41
Lee She's a crime writer she said when
00:44:44
she was 9 years old she actually
00:44:47
discovered the lady of the dunes First
00:44:49
with her sister but was too horrified to
00:44:51
tell anyone at N9 years old she was with
00:44:54
her dog and stumbled upon her and she
00:44:56
said quote I stumbled down an incline
00:44:58
with my dog the dog was ahead of me my
00:45:01
dog got excited about something I heard
00:45:03
a very strange noise if you can imagine
00:45:06
someone holding a String of Pearls I
00:45:08
heard that sound and then there was a
00:45:10
horrible smell at first I attributed to
00:45:13
low tide she was face down her hair was
00:45:16
a mess and I could see a gouge in the
00:45:18
right side of her neck her arms were
00:45:20
tucked down in the sand so I didn't know
00:45:22
anything was missing I recognized the
00:45:24
green blanket right away the lower half
00:45:27
of her body was covered with something
00:45:29
she later found out that that sound like
00:45:32
somebody holding a pearl necklace which
00:45:34
you can know you can tell what that
00:45:35
sound is that was the sound of hundreds
00:45:37
of thousands of maggots crawling all
00:45:39
over her
00:45:40
body um yeah she says she is sure that
00:45:45
she she's like I am sure either one or a
00:45:48
couple other people must have stumbled
00:45:50
upon this body in those 3 weeks and just
00:45:53
were too scared to say anything that's a
00:45:55
little messed up and she was like cuz
00:45:57
she was like if it was kids there was
00:45:58
kids all over this all over this beach
00:46:02
always playing in these Dunes think
00:46:04
about it these two people are two
00:46:05
children a 12-year-old and a 9-year-old
00:46:08
I'm sure another kid ran across this and
00:46:10
was like I don't know what that is or
00:46:12
ran across it and thought it was just a
00:46:15
naked
00:46:16
sunbather um especially from a distance
00:46:19
and now I have a question how do you
00:46:20
transport a b like how do you get the
00:46:22
insects off of a body to transport it uh
00:46:25
usually they transport with the insects
00:46:28
do they yeah so the people that
00:46:30
transport do they just like gown up or
00:46:31
something yeah they oh yeah definitely
00:46:33
got especially in a case like that where
00:46:35
it's like so many and then you must just
00:46:37
like definit out you'll definitely try
00:46:40
to like get them out when there's like
00:46:42
hundreds of thousands but evidence in
00:46:46
the bag basically have you ever opened a
00:46:48
bag and had I be in there luckily oh
00:46:52
which is a good a good thing Sor just a
00:46:54
little side note I was really curious
00:46:56
down for insects I they can exist I just
00:46:58
don't want to exist are not for me mots
00:47:01
are not something I want to deal with
00:47:02
and that is really a great way to
00:47:05
describe the sound of
00:47:08
magot a pearl necklace in your hand
00:47:10
that's actually my birthstone so please
00:47:12
leave so please leave thank you all
00:47:15
right
00:47:15
so here's here's some of the theories
00:47:18
that have come across or people of
00:47:19
Interest okay somebody thought she might
00:47:21
have been a woman named Rory Jean
00:47:24
kessinger now this was a 24-year-old
00:47:27
woman at the time and she matched the
00:47:29
height and the weight of the lady in the
00:47:31
dunes she was also known to be a drug
00:47:33
dealer and a bank robber she was picked
00:47:36
up at one point running around naked in
00:47:38
the woods in Pembroke saying she was had
00:47:41
been sexually assaulted and an off duty
00:47:43
police officer brought him to his home
00:47:45
to call for backup and when she got in
00:47:47
there she turned off the lights stole
00:47:49
his gun and then said she had to kill
00:47:51
him what the [ __ ] and he wrestled it
00:47:54
from her but she went to jail for
00:47:55
assault and intent to murder
00:47:57
wow she went to jail in Plymouth and on
00:47:59
May 26th
00:48:01
1974 she escaped from jail because
00:48:04
someone smuggled her in a hacksaw and
00:48:07
she sawed through the bars like I hate
00:48:09
to say this but like bad [ __ ] Vibes she
00:48:12
was never seen again unless she's the
00:48:14
lady on the D she was never seen again
00:48:18
no one knows where she went such a
00:48:20
different such a different Rory Honestly
00:48:22
though not a different Rory Rory Gilmore
00:48:25
she did go to jail she did steal a boat
00:48:28
H and she commits she's part of many
00:48:31
adulterous Affairs so she's she's not
00:48:34
know if she's robbed any banks though I
00:48:36
don't know do we don't know we we didn't
00:48:40
see her we didn't see her rob a bank but
00:48:42
we didn't see her not rob a bank I can't
00:48:45
say she didn't Rob aank I didn't see you
00:48:48
not rob a bank so maybe it just didn't
00:48:50
make the final cut I don't know but
00:48:53
either way it wasn't Rory Gilmore okay
00:48:55
and it wasn't this Rory because in 2002
00:48:58
DNA from her mother they used like
00:49:00
familial DNA uh compared to the unknown
00:49:02
body proved it wasn't her you know I
00:49:04
didn't think it was her I didn't either
00:49:06
but a lot of people thought it was
00:49:07
because the other thing was you see a
00:49:09
picture of Rory um and you see a picture
00:49:12
of this on the composite of this girl
00:49:15
they do have a striking resemblance to
00:49:17
each other so it is interesting
00:49:23
[Music]
00:49:28
now one of my favorites and one that I
00:49:30
think has a little bit of legs here okay
00:49:34
is that James Whitey Bulger did this and
00:49:37
do you you think this has a lot of legs
00:49:38
I think it has legs okay I don't I'm not
00:49:41
sold okay but I think I I I'm it's one
00:49:45
of those that I can see that it
00:49:48
definitely could be him and I can also
00:49:49
be like so it's just like it's one that
00:49:52
I just will keep over in a corner well
00:49:54
and if you know anything about Whitey
00:49:55
like in the whole beginning of this
00:49:56
thing said like this is clearly somebody
00:49:58
who's killed before in my opinion at
00:50:00
least ex well in you know we especially
00:50:03
if you're in massachus like everyone
00:50:04
knows Whitey buer if you're in
00:50:05
Massachusetts you definitely know Whitey
00:50:07
buer yeah you're probably his cousin
00:50:09
your grandparents are probably telling
00:50:10
you that they should have just let him
00:50:12
keep being on the lamb cuz cuz he's a
00:50:15
harmless old person yeah yeah sure Papa
00:50:17
that makes sense sure uh so Witnesses
00:50:20
said that they saw cuz people would see
00:50:23
Whitey buer all over the place he he was
00:50:25
existing among everybody
00:50:27
everyone was just letting him do his
00:50:29
thingy was a vibe in a house he was
00:50:31
scary so Witnesses said that they did
00:50:33
see him with a woman who matched the
00:50:35
lady of the dun's description in Ptown
00:50:38
at this time interesting he was known at
00:50:41
this time to be in P toown um he what
00:50:44
the [ __ ] was Whitey Boulder you want to
00:50:46
know what he was doing he was
00:50:47
frequenting a bar in the area uh called
00:50:50
the Crone and anchor I mean it makes
00:50:52
sense but like yeah I Ptown is just such
00:50:55
a chill Vibe and white is such a chaotic
00:50:57
Vibe he is I think he's chaotic in
00:51:00
Boston and I think he chills in but if
00:51:02
he did this then he's chaotic everywhere
00:51:05
so it'll erase my view of him being
00:51:07
chill and P toown um but yeah so this
00:51:11
this bar the Crone and anchor that he
00:51:13
loved frequent down here was very close
00:51:14
to where they found her body oh that's
00:51:16
weird his thing was to remove his
00:51:18
victim's teeth right he did have a thing
00:51:21
for that um Sandra Lee the crime writer
00:51:23
thinks she may have that this woman may
00:51:26
have been an Irish
00:51:27
immigrant and that she was groomed by
00:51:30
Bulger to be forced into sex work oh no
00:51:34
because he was also a human trafficker
00:51:36
like he was in all that [ __ ] he's a real
00:51:37
bad guy he's a real bad guy I feel like
00:51:39
some people kind of like he his he gets
00:51:41
glossed over as just like I feel like a
00:51:45
lot of these like mob bosses and like
00:51:48
crime families they become a thing you
00:51:51
know you watch The Sopranos you see The
00:51:53
Godfather and you see how terrible it
00:51:55
all is but somehow it just everyone just
00:51:58
kind of is like but that's a cool crime
00:52:01
family you know what I mean like I it's
00:52:02
just I think it's like a weird human
00:52:05
thing that that a lot of people do and I
00:52:07
think he's one of those characters
00:52:09
that's so Infamous that people just are
00:52:10
like WHYY bul you know what it is it's
00:52:12
like Hollywood makes it is it's very
00:52:14
it's he's he's become a Hollywood figure
00:52:17
so I think it glosses over the true
00:52:20
atrocities that he did like he murdered
00:52:22
his own girlfriend he did and he
00:52:23
murdered his own right-hand band's
00:52:26
girlfriend like made him help him do
00:52:28
it is that what I'm thinking of yeah I
00:52:30
mean he definitely like murdered women
00:52:32
and he did it in pretty and he would
00:52:34
like strangle them too which is again
00:52:37
they think she may have been strangled
00:52:38
um she so she thinks this this could be
00:52:40
that and maybe that's why we're not
00:52:42
identifying her because she's not from
00:52:44
here right um The New York Times
00:52:46
reported quote Tales of his exploits
00:52:49
were learned from childhood there how he
00:52:51
shot men between the eyes stabbed rivals
00:52:54
in the heart with ice piics strangled
00:52:56
women who might betray him and buried
00:52:58
victims in secret graveyards after
00:53:00
yanking their teeth to thwart
00:53:02
identification that is 100% true if you
00:53:05
grew up here you grew up hearing Tales
00:53:08
of Whitey Bulger literally like there
00:53:10
was like a Whitey Bulger like a book
00:53:11
about like him on my summer reading oh
00:53:13
yeah yeah Black Mass probably I maybe
00:53:17
was it Black Mass I don't think it was
00:53:18
it was I don't know I'll I'll think of
00:53:20
it later um but yeah so Sandra Lee
00:53:22
actually thinks he's the guy she thinks
00:53:24
that's did I mean I think you're right
00:53:26
it does have legs it's never been proven
00:53:28
that she isn't one of his victims they
00:53:30
haven't been able to prove she isn't
00:53:32
they also haven't been able to prove she
00:53:34
is people hoped he would confess to it
00:53:37
but when he was arrested but like he was
00:53:40
beaten literally to an unrecognizable
00:53:43
pile of meat by inmates in West Virginia
00:53:45
October 30th 2018 when he was 89 years
00:53:48
old he literally entered prison and they
00:53:51
literally just beat him to [ __ ] yeah so
00:53:53
he didn't exactly get a chance to admit
00:53:55
it which is kind of a bummer kind of a
00:53:58
bummer and actually kind of interesting
00:53:59
that like inmates beat him to death
00:54:01
because there is like you know that like
00:54:03
how there's a hierarchy in prison you
00:54:04
would think a mob boss would be on top
00:54:06
you would think I don't know he was so
00:54:09
horrific like I don't know it's a weird
00:54:12
it's a weird uh it's a weird Flex there
00:54:15
I don't know it is but I mean he's a
00:54:17
really bad guy so like yeah he was I
00:54:20
mean he was 89 at the time he had also
00:54:22
been on the lamb for so long maybe it
00:54:24
was like they were pissed that he got
00:54:26
with it for so long I don't know who
00:54:27
knows either way he really got it got
00:54:32
got but I really would have preferred
00:54:34
him to be able to maybe get convinced to
00:54:39
like admit a few things I just feel like
00:54:40
he would have had many things to there's
00:54:42
some families that would I think would
00:54:43
have liked to hear some closure and
00:54:45
stuff so it's like that's a bummer yeah
00:54:47
exactly that's why like prison Justice
00:54:50
sometimes you're like okay but like I
00:54:52
would have liked to get some information
00:54:54
like you know it works when you're like
00:54:56
throwing hot water over Daniel morom
00:54:59
killer exactly or like tattooing tooing
00:55:01
Katie's revenge on that guy's forehead
00:55:03
when he killed I've ever heard I'm like
00:55:06
all right do that they can still talk
00:55:08
feel free but like yeah this is just
00:55:09
tough but yeah so that's that's possibly
00:55:13
who it could be okay there's another one
00:55:15
um in 2000 a serial killer named uh
00:55:18
Hayden Clark confessed to the murder of
00:55:20
the ladies of the dunes okay he
00:55:22
confessed from prison while he was
00:55:24
serving two 30-year sentences for the
00:55:26
murders of a 6-year-old girl named
00:55:29
Michelle door and a 23-year-old woman
00:55:32
named Laura hotelling oh my goodness he
00:55:34
claimed he killed up to 12 women and he
00:55:36
said he buried some of the evidence on
00:55:38
his grandfather's property like in his
00:55:40
garden on the cape that's a dick move
00:55:42
and Clark explained that he had buried
00:55:45
evidence from the lady of the dunes
00:55:47
crime in his grandfather's Garden on the
00:55:50
cape so did we go there and he said he
00:55:52
knew the woman's identity but he was not
00:55:54
going to tell authorities because he
00:55:55
said were mean to him so he's not going
00:55:57
to tell them it's really not their job
00:56:00
to like make you feel super welcome just
00:56:02
so you know yeah so he led police on
00:56:04
December 15th 2002 his grandfather's
00:56:07
former property and they did dig in the
00:56:10
garden and did find a big plastic bucket
00:56:13
filled with more than 200 pieces of
00:56:15
jewelry interesting among these things
00:56:18
were Laura hotelling's High School class
00:56:21
ring wow so he was telling the truth
00:56:23
that he buried some of his murder
00:56:24
victims things in there he said they
00:56:26
were literally trophies to him like he
00:56:28
did that for a reason of course s [ __ ]
00:56:31
they couldn't connect anything to the
00:56:32
lady of the dunes cuz they don't know
00:56:34
who the [ __ ] she is so any of that
00:56:36
jewelry could be her jewelry and we
00:56:38
don't know police don't believe him
00:56:40
though because one there's no physical
00:56:43
evidence that they can connect to him
00:56:45
and then also he was diagnosed as a
00:56:47
paranoid schizophrenic and so it's hard
00:56:50
for him to tell reality from fantasy and
00:56:53
he has moments where he is telling a
00:56:55
story and spinning a yarn and it becomes
00:56:57
a fantasy sure so they think maybe this
00:56:59
was just him just it happens all the
00:57:02
time that these people in prison who are
00:57:05
there for atrocities will confess to
00:57:08
other crimes like um uh Henry Le Lucas
00:57:13
Otis tool they they did the same thing
00:57:15
they just like honestly it's just a [ __ ]
00:57:16
with the investigator it's just a [ __ ]
00:57:18
with people and it's like mental illness
00:57:20
and it's like so they were like this
00:57:22
just isn't really credible so they were
00:57:24
like yeah we're not going to be able to
00:57:25
really do with that this whole [ __ ]
00:57:27
case is so frustrating and then there's
00:57:28
my favorite Theory oh okay in
00:57:31
2015 Stephen King's son Joe Hill had a
00:57:36
theory mhm he wrote in a blog post that
00:57:39
he believed that the lady of the dunes
00:57:41
can be seen alive as an extra in Jaws oh
00:57:45
my God how did I forget about this I
00:57:48
literally knew that this was a thing but
00:57:52
the entire time we were doing this my
00:57:54
brain just forgot that piece life and he
00:57:57
said in his blog post what if the young
00:57:59
murder victim no one has ever been able
00:58:01
to identify has been seen by hundreds of
00:58:04
millions of people in a beloved Summer
00:58:06
Classic and they didn't even know they
00:58:08
were looking at her and he said what if
00:58:10
the ghost of the lady of the dunes
00:58:11
haunts Jaws that freaks me the [ __ ]
00:58:14
there is a woman who looks just like the
00:58:17
sketches and composits and is wearing
00:58:19
Wrangler jeans and a blue bandan I mean
00:58:22
hello but there's a lot of women at that
00:58:25
time that dressed exactly like that yeah
00:58:27
um so he said quote this particular
00:58:30
woman Bears a shocking resemblance and
00:58:33
appearance and wardrobe to the murder
00:58:35
victim suddenly I tingled all over and
00:58:37
came halfway out of my seat and for the
00:58:39
barest of a moment I thought I had seen
00:58:41
her now Jaws had been filmed 2 hours
00:58:45
away from the crime scene so not that
00:58:47
far away they had never recorded the
00:58:49
names of their extras oh [ __ ] and a lot
00:58:52
of locals were extras like they would
00:58:55
just show up and agreed to appear in the
00:58:56
Final Cut yeah so police are skeptical
00:58:59
but they said they are not going to say
00:59:01
it's not possible that that is her I
00:59:04
mean of course a lot of women dress like
00:59:05
that at the time but the fact that this
00:59:07
woman looks like her looks like her in
00:59:09
the blue bandana that's a big one um and
00:59:13
did they ever find like a bathing suit
00:59:14
top or anything no they didn't find
00:59:16
anything like that I know that's what's
00:59:18
weird um and and so Joe Hill said quote
00:59:22
part of me thinks that my subconscious
00:59:24
mind is so programmed so to quickly
00:59:26
generate ghost stories that that's all
00:59:28
I've done here cuz he is Stephen King's
00:59:30
son I was going to say that is true but
00:59:32
jaw's screenwriter Carl gotle uh checked
00:59:35
his production notes and he said this
00:59:37
scene number 130 with the extra that
00:59:40
they're talking about was filmed May
00:59:42
25th 1974 two months before and only a
00:59:46
100 miles away from where she was found
00:59:48
interesting so she would have been alive
00:59:51
right two months is like a long time
00:59:52
before like but I mean she could have
00:59:54
been she was there she could just been
00:59:56
there right I know I'm thinking of her
00:59:57
as like a vacationer yeah and she she
00:59:59
might have just been living there well
01:00:01
and then in 2019 investigators said that
01:00:04
they were going to reexamine the case
01:00:06
trying to use new techniques um they
01:00:08
were going to use DNA analysis and
01:00:10
genealogical family building sites to
01:00:12
try to do it uh this is the same kind of
01:00:15
thing they used with the Golden State
01:00:16
killer case it's becoming a real like
01:00:20
valuable thing for these kind of cases
01:00:22
um and Cape and the island da Michael
01:00:25
o'keef said quote we're going to examine
01:00:27
everything we can with respect to the
01:00:30
the remains now I'm just going to leave
01:00:32
you with one exciting possible thing
01:00:35
American Horror Story season 10 is being
01:00:38
filmed in Massachusetts and it has
01:00:40
hinted at a lady of the Dune storyline
01:00:43
[ __ ] possibly as a subplot oh my God so
01:00:45
I did I like combed Reddit for some
01:00:47
theories about this too cuz they are
01:00:49
really good at like finding these things
01:00:52
um they are filming in P toown they are
01:00:54
filming in P town you think Lord is in
01:00:56
Fe is in P toown yeah I think she was
01:00:59
and Murphy Ryan Murphy said quote he
01:01:02
like put something on his social media
01:01:04
that said quote something's washing up
01:01:06
on the shore girl something like that
01:01:08
and then teased a photo with two hands
01:01:11
on the beach and as we said a big part
01:01:14
of this was her missing two hands right
01:01:17
and Murphy has teased out more teasers
01:01:20
that have teeth in them interest I mean
01:01:22
if if it's not like the main thing cuz
01:01:24
either way this is set in Massachusetts
01:01:26
so I'm excited in P toown excited to see
01:01:28
what it is like I wonder if there's like
01:01:30
a Tony Chop Chop part or
01:01:32
anything but either way it could
01:01:34
definitely be like a subplot they always
01:01:37
put those little like nods well then you
01:01:39
have to wonder like is it going to be in
01:01:40
the 70s because oh my God I love to
01:01:43
watch [ __ ] that is said in that time
01:01:44
period I bet it is I wonder I need to
01:01:47
know so I'm excited to see I love
01:01:49
American Horror Story so good I would
01:01:51
love to see it and that is the very
01:01:55
frustrating t
01:01:56
of the lady in the of the dunes that we
01:01:58
don't know who she is someday I think
01:02:00
we're going to update you guys I'm going
01:02:01
to manifest it I I think we're going to
01:02:04
do it I think we're going to solve it I
01:02:07
think we so far we have a good squad uh
01:02:10
we got Johnny and Tyler up in Canada
01:02:12
Sarah turny y girl come on Squad I know
01:02:16
you can get [ __ ] done Bailey seran
01:02:18
Bailey seran get over here make me look
01:02:20
good while we investigate this please
01:02:22
yes uh and yeah we're I think we're
01:02:24
going to do this let's get it friends
01:02:26
we'll add some more don't worry for sure
01:02:28
who else should be on the squad everyone
01:02:30
is going to volunteer oh you know what
01:02:31
Jordan from the nighttime podcast he's
01:02:33
up in Canada too we got him maybe he can
01:02:35
find the woman Canada a squad all right
01:02:37
I'm ready for this guys if you're in
01:02:39
you're in we'll tag you see you soon and
01:02:43
uh we hope you keep listening and we
01:02:45
hope you keep it weird but it's weird
01:02:48
that you don't sign up to be part of our
01:02:49
Squad to finally solve this case thank
01:02:51
you good night
01:03:04
[Music]