00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Elina I'm as and this is [Music] morbid sorry I don't know that was a
00:00:31
great addition I liked it what if I just responded to everything you said today was that would be I I don't know if that
00:00:40
would be encouraging or if it would be I feel like probably not lightly frightening later we should pause cuz
00:00:47
your mail truck just got here and your dog's going to go [ __ ] nuts I think I like this
00:00:58
little I love doing that to Drew just randomly cuz he [ __ ] hates hate that I think it's so funny I do love he
00:01:07
seeing people do it to their dogs though have you seen that like people just like
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laughing the dogs like what the [ __ ] I will fight you no Drew will just be like
00:01:17
saying something that like we have to do and I'll be like okay I think I like this he hates it so much he's like
00:01:27
stop I hate that as well I'm with through sometimes I'll just go up into his ear
00:01:32
and do it oh that's terrible Terri Mike's like assault assault and battery it's a lot
00:01:40
to live with me but he chose it he did he chose this little life full cir full cir uh so so hey
00:01:52
guess what uh I there's a sequel to The Butcher and the ren called The Butcher game wrote it wrote it I read some of it
00:02:00
ready to go she's coming out September 17th Mark your [ __ ] calendars you can pre-order it now and pre-orders are
00:02:07
awesome they help me out a lot so if you want to do it that's great if you can't
00:02:10
you want to wait until September that's fine too do what you want do what you want to do okay but pre-orders are great
00:02:16
um and Barnes & Noble has a 25% off on the butcher game if you use the code butcher game 25 to5 I love coupons
00:02:29
butcher game 25 and it goes through September so if you want to wait a little while to pre-order that's cool
00:02:35
too man you can still use that 25% off at Barnes & Noble or get it anywhere else you want to get a book wow okay
00:02:43
this is deeply exciting cuz one de love books two I love you my God three I love
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coupons did I say thats I'm just really excited about this all I also excited I think I like this
00:02:55
little life I think I like this little life U but you guys have been awesome awesome and also like uh you're just
00:03:02
really great and you are really being kind and supportive and I appreciate you and if you're not I'll come and find you
00:03:08
but like everybody's kidding and but you've like I put out like that little video and I was like I'm actually
00:03:14
getting like kind of emotional I'm not even kidding made emotional you've been so kind so supportive so wonderful and I
00:03:21
appreciate you and it's because of you that this gets to keep happening so thanks a lot I appreciate it and go
00:03:27
pre-order it if you want to it's long and it's snarly so it's everything you could ever want you know party party but
00:03:36
you know what is not everything that you could ever want I know exactly what is not everything I could ever want um Ed
00:03:41
gin yeah Ed is is really nothing you could ever want or need or con or fath or conceive of really exactly um and I
00:03:51
know these episodes are pretty gnarly uh so if you need a pallet cleanser you can
00:03:56
also go over to the rewatcher we've been having a lot of fun over there I love that show we literally laugh so hard
00:04:02
that we get that like uh scratchy throat kind of thing that happens God last week's episode I think it's last week's
00:04:08
at this point I think in the darkn the darkn you should just go listen we were crying laughing crying go if you need a
00:04:15
little pallet cleanser but you still want to hang out with us which we hope you do uh come on over to the rewatcher
00:04:21
it's getting funny over there and if you've never watched the show that's okay exactly so you just watch it as you
00:04:26
go go go go go go go there you go in the dark the dark angel so yeah so if you need a palet cleanser head on over there
00:04:34
but we are at the conclusion of the G Saga oh and we got through the worst of it I would say this is really the wrapup
00:04:43
this is what happened afterwards this is kind of where he fits in into um kind of
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Pop Culture at this point how that evolved um we told you I told you all the terrible stuff the last episode that
00:04:56
was for sure the heaviest one which is why we needed a little bit of a there for this one um when we last left you uh
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he had been found and caught and was not super forthcoming about what was happening every once in a while he would
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spill spill his guts a little bit but he was he was pretty tight lipped but that
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led to a lot of people speculating there was lots of cannibalism necrofilia talk
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all these rumors none of them were substantiated at the time they were just rumors because of the maab and very
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ghoulish reality of that house and what they found they weren't really going very far to
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find these rumors it was just kind of naturally occurring out of this because no one had ever seen anything like this
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before and probably never did again yeah I mean this is a very and I think that's
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why this case and I'll talk about it later but I think this why this case is so enduring it's because it's
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just what the [ __ ] it's like all over the place what the [ __ ] and especially
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at this time in period it's like this was like what the the [ __ ] and in the midwest it's like you know America's
00:06:03
Heartland tiny little town where nothing Happ tiny little town and everybody and
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everybody knew this guy that was the other thing it's not like this it wasn't the weirdo that no one ever talked to
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and no one knew anything about him they knew everything about this guy they grew
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up with him right you babysat their kids Jesus stop telling me that I know I can't help it as these rumors of
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cannibalism and necrophilia are spreading like wildfire investigators were working very diligently in an
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attempt to get just a little bit of the truth or as close to the truth as they could from Ed himself during his initial
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interrogation he he had a lot of trouble remembering things or so he said and he
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frequently struggled to answer questions but in the days that followed that he was becoming a little more forthcoming
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at least as far as the grave robbing was concerned at first they weren't getting
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a lot out of him about that but he started to open up more um also while he didn't seem like he was being particular
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like boastful or proud of what he' done like he wasn't like oh yeah like this is
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what I did he also didn't have any remorse like he wasn't sitting there like being like
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crying and being like I can't believe I did this I'm so ashamed he was by no means being prideful about it but there
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was no emotion attached to it very matter of a fact very just this is what I did wow like it was just very robotic
00:07:25
that's interesting yeah and he spoke about his quote unquote collecting in a very matter ofct way and that's what he
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called it his collecting okay yeah um what a [ __ ] way to very detached like very detached very like I'm not really
00:07:42
understanding why everyone's freaking out here kind of thing um Ed confirmed that to the best of his Recollections he
00:07:49
had taken the bodies from the cemetery and had used various organs and pieces of the bodies to make trophy items and
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he explained that sometimes he would open the grave and take the entire body home while other times he would just
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take parts of what he wanted and then reberry the casket in the same night okay imagine no your loved one being
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dissected in their casket in the middle of the night by this guy no that's horrifying and then the casket is just
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shut reburied and you have no idea what he took from them and that's the thing you think about all the people that went
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to go visit their loved ones having no idea that their graves were even Disturbed that they're an Inc
00:08:29
complete set of remains yeah and what we'll find out later is like we still don't really know who like they weren't
00:08:38
able to put everyone back comp sad yeah and although they had already endured hours in the G house followed by many
00:08:46
more hours talking to Ed and considering his crimes none of the investigators were at all prepared for any kind of
00:08:53
explanation for why he did this to be honest after all they'd seen and been through but based on the state uh the
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state of things at the G Farm investigators had assumed that the explanation was that he had taken the
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body parts and skeletons simply as trophies to be displayed and you know like just so we could look at them like
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use them as art kind of his own weird maob art that's what they were assuming yeah they were like we're really not
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ready for any kind of explanation here and like none of them makes sense but we're assuming that's what it is but the
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truth was actually uh much more upsetting MH uh when they asked whether he had ever worn the masks made out of
00:09:34
human skin that was literally filleted off of people's skulls Ed replied that I did he just said that I did that I
00:09:43
did what the [ __ ] but that wasn't the only thing that he did can you imagine being the person that had to interview
00:09:50
him yeah like sit in a room with this man and hear him very and you look at pictures of him and he looks very like
00:09:58
like a normal [ __ ] dude what like I don't understand he looks freaking out an old man that like you'd be friendly
00:10:05
to and be like like oh hey what's going on yeah like and to be in that house and
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then to go back to that police station and sit down with him and talk to him I don't know again we were saying like I
00:10:17
don't know how you get over being in that house I don't know how you get over talking to Edge how do you reconcile
00:10:23
those two things together like how do you sit in that room and be like you're the guy I don't know like I don't know
00:10:29
how the human brain is capable of really wild and then to think about like he had
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like what like nine masks made out of women's faces that he had skinned off of their skulls and these were recently
00:10:43
deceased women right like that's the thing that he knew in a lot of cases yeah he would he would scan the obituary
00:10:49
you said right and he would know the names he would have interacted with them before and then he's wearing their faces
00:10:56
some with makeup on still that's wild like imagine being these loved ones of these women finding out that this man
00:11:04
was wearing your mom your sister your grandmother's space that's a nightmare around his house that's like Beyond a
00:11:11
nightmare I don't there's so many layers to it that it's just like holy [ __ ] you
00:11:16
can't even consider it all no but again that was only part of his what he he kind of referred to as his ritual that
00:11:24
he would do he had made an entire skin suit from women's bodies and hair and would often wear the suit and he said on
00:11:34
warmer nights he would wear it while wandering around in and outside the house on his property
00:11:41
what thinking about that that visual that visual like a like a bright moon this just like decomposing farm that like
00:11:56
nature is reclaiming acres and acres and ACR of land in the middle but that Moonlight trees like reaching over and
00:12:06
he's walking around in a human skin suit that he made from bodies of women he murdered and dug up in the cemetery also
00:12:19
Imagine and sewed together knowing that you lived close to him and that like you
00:12:24
were just s like you think like what was I doing in my house miles away reading a
00:12:29
book while he was wandering around his property in dead women's skins it's like did he babysit my kid that night that's
00:12:36
it's like did he just go home after babysitting and do that also what the [ __ ] possesses another human being to
00:12:44
make a skin suit and walk around in it like what the actual [ __ ] and that's why
00:12:52
you also know that you are not working with a sane human being here no by no means there is a lot wrong here there's
00:13:02
layers and layers of of Darkness happening here there's not even a word for what this is there really isn't
00:13:09
there really isn't and it's it's honestly inconceivable and it's no one really understood it until the man died
00:13:17
we still don't understand it we're still like like you can you can point to many
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things that occurred in his life and know that it's a a wild and horrifying concoction of some of the worst [ __ ] of
00:13:30
course you could think of but then you think that other people turn into this it's like how did that intersection
00:13:36
happen because other people have a similar experience to what I had and it's awful it's it does not take away
00:13:43
from the fact that it's [ __ ] horrible and it's B it's essentially child abuse in my opinion oh 100% can't isolate your
00:13:50
child and oh absolutely it's a lot yeah and there was abuse like it was like I mean like they she neglected the other
00:13:57
the other you know Henry and she was she was mean exactly she was awful to them but so many other people have probably
00:14:05
gone through similar things and don't do this that's the thing and it's like so and just don't know what the what's the
00:14:12
thing that makes a person go that way that's why I'm like is it is it and obviously this is us
00:14:19
just like thinking out loud like we don't know what we're talking about but it's like is it brain chemistry that is
00:14:25
the is the kind of the straw that C back kind of thing like it's like your unique
00:14:32
brain chemistry either you go one way or you go this Myriad of different ways like yeah I don't and I I don't know if
00:14:40
I don't know when we'll know I don't know if we'll know I mean it's just it's so complex it's not the same thing but
00:14:46
it's like why does some people like certain music and other people [ __ ] hate that music true does it have
00:14:50
something to do with like some unique brain chemistry that all it that it takes you know this perfect storm of
00:14:59
trauma and abuse to turn that chemistry a certain way you know like is it well and I think I definitely think part of
00:15:07
it is what you're exposed to or what you expose yourself to and I think and this
00:15:12
is just my opinion I think those magazines that he was they fed whatever this Darkness was 100% yeah he I fully
00:15:19
agree with that and like could possibly have like changed his brain in some way yeah it absolutely could and he gives a
00:15:25
little bit of insight into some some times that he per personally which like obviously he's
00:15:31
a very unreliable historian of his own life but he points to one in particular instance which is
00:15:38
interesting but I do agree with you that I think he fed himself his loneliness and his
00:15:45
isolation was one thing and he did he was isolated felt lonely just you know grief from his mother dying the [ __ ]
00:15:53
up way he was raised yeah whatever happened with Henry his brother which still up in the here are we but kind of
00:16:02
seems like there was something there and it's like and then he's feeding himself
00:16:06
nothing but violent Fantastical and and these aren't like you know the these aren't all like Fiction it's not like
00:16:13
he's sitting there reading horror no you know what I mean like that's whatever like you're just like this is literally
00:16:18
likeing the worst [ __ ] that real human beings the atrocities that are being committed against other human beings you
00:16:27
know what I mean and he's and he's looking at it and being like that sounds interesting something I want to try like
00:16:35
that's the thing it's like that's where the the the road diverges disconnect he's not just reading horror books or
00:16:42
something like that or you know it being like I like to be scared that's fun you
00:16:46
know like that's a totally different brain chemistry but to look at the real atrocities that human beings are are
00:16:53
committing against each other and saying well that sounds fun right that's when it's like you're feeding a darkness that
00:17:00
was already there yes yeah so that's what he was doing so people around that farm just going about their business
00:17:07
while that's happening god um when asked why some of these body parts that they found in the in the house had been
00:17:15
painted or like embellished some had been salted you know like we talked about one of the volvas was like covered
00:17:21
in salt yeah that's part of where that rumor probably came from of like cannibalism yeah but he explained he had
00:17:29
simply been trying to find effective ways of preserving them I was going to ask that yeah that was my asso but in
00:17:35
the ' 50s especially likei they have no [ __ ] clue when you hunt like isn't don't you like pack it
00:17:42
in salt or something I think so at least well it makes sense I mean salt is a preservative so yeah and I mean that's
00:17:47
what they used to do like way back when so yeah exactly but well Ed seemed to have No Reservations about confessing to
00:17:54
some of the most shocking crimes imaginable he was strangely less forthcoming and Cooperative when it came
00:18:00
to the murders of Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden interesting um following a polygraph exam he confessed to killing
00:18:07
Hogan and Warden but he did so very reluctantly and only after it was pointed out that there was a veritable
00:18:15
mountain of evidence pointing to his guilts like they were like you literally can't get out of like you have to wonder
00:18:22
or at least I'm wondering if that's because like his religious upbringing explicitly says like that sh not kill
00:18:30
and obviously like Thou shalt not do all those other horrific heinous but it doesn't explicitly say all that I feel
00:18:36
like that packed a a different kind of meaning for him that he was a murderer yeah and I think he looked at the other
00:18:43
things as he from the way he seemed to talk about it was these women were dead right like what were they doing with
00:18:52
that stuff like I need it right kind of thing you know what I mean like he looked at it from a very detached like
00:18:59
they didn't need it anymore why like why is this a problem like maybe it's weird
00:19:02
to you but like right it's not bad what I did you know like that's [ __ ] really
00:19:08
[ __ ] like incredibly [ __ ] but I think that's what it was is that he didn't think he was wrong for that no he
00:19:13
I think he was like sure maybe you find me gross or weird but like I didn't do anything wrong it's a dead person like
00:19:19
what do you mean which like no that is wrong like of course I can make art out of their flesh and it's like no and then
00:19:24
when it comes to murder though he knows that's bad he knows that's illegal he knows morally that's wrong and he's
00:19:31
preaching morals all over the place and his mom was always screaming morals at him which she had a very skewed [ __ ]
00:19:37
view of morality and we'll get to that in a minute too you we'll find another instance where it's like austa really
00:19:43
but not another one yeah but but yeah I think you're right I think it's like murder was something he just knew was
00:19:49
wrong exactly so he knew by admitting to that he was admitting also he probably thought he was admitting in front of
00:19:54
technically his mom yeah the he had done the ultimate sin right uh so as for the other crimes that he was
00:20:02
suspected of a spokesperson for the crime lab indicated they had not made any determinations as of yet like
00:20:08
meaning they didn't know if he was a cannibal they didn't know if he was a necrophiliac yeah uh the Press was told
00:20:13
an avalanche of physical evidence has been recovered which will take weeks and possibly months to completely evaluate
00:20:19
in process but based on his responses during the polygraph examinations because they brought up the cannibalism
00:20:26
they brought up the necrophilia they also brought up the several people that had gone missing in the pre like we had
00:20:32
talked about like Evelyn Harley Georgia weckler like all those cases that were kind of open and strange they brought
00:20:38
those up um and investigators after the polygraph were reasonably confident that
00:20:44
g had nothing to do with the disappearances of Evelyn Harley Georgia weckler or any of the young women who
00:20:50
had gone missing over the years I think that's a little sus I I'm not placing all my [ __ ] on a polygraph
00:20:57
exam no obviously and it's like and especially one where the guy doesn't really understand that that's something like
00:21:09
taking people's body parts from their graves and using them as soup bowls is wrong and not just gross and weird MH I
00:21:19
don't know if we can look at that polygraph the same way cuz he his like his physiology is not going to react the
00:21:27
same way to a question like that you know what I mean like he's not going to think he did something wrong so he's
00:21:33
going to be like well no that's why polygraphs are so tough yeah cuz it's like this guy has a very different view
00:21:38
of what is wrong right weird strange and the like like he's not it's just not going to have the same Baseline yeah so
00:21:47
like there was some stuff that we talked about in part two that like kind of made
00:21:51
you question the Evelyn Harley thing I'm not saying he did it I'm just saying there's things that still make me
00:21:57
question it a little bit yeah and it's like and if you're just going off the polygraph exam to say like
00:22:02
they're we're pretty sure he didn't do it I'm like I don't know cuz he had and obviously not that this is like a
00:22:07
Smoking Gun by any means but he had newspaper clippings of the her disappearance reports said that he did
00:22:12
yeah his house yeah so whether he was just interested in the case knows you know there's very but that that is
00:22:19
interesting you know at the very least how a polygraph isn't going to really work the same on on somebody like this
00:22:26
but for a Time the grave robbing and trophies were effective at quelling his anxiety he
00:22:33
said about his mother dying and it would help quiet the voices in his head he said okay so that can tell you a lot
00:22:41
sure uh but after a few years he said they were no longer a sufficient means of coping and he was struggling so one
00:22:48
afternoon he said he stopped into Mary's Tavern with a neighbor and was struck by
00:22:53
just how much Mary Hogan resembled his mother physically they do look similar yeah and he said it soon occurred to him
00:23:00
though that while she definitely resembled her physically he said Mary Hogan's personality was almost the polar
00:23:07
opposite of who he believed his mother to be mhm and Ed fixated on Mary for a few weeks until one morning he said he
00:23:16
just went to the tavern and shot her in the back of the head with a 32 Caliber Mouser pistol wow once he'd killed Mary
00:23:24
Ed loaded her body into the back of the truck and brought her back to the farm and hung up her body in the summer
00:23:30
kitchen where he proceeded to mutilate her body in the same manner that he had Bernice warden so Mary Hogan went
00:23:37
through the exact same thing that's horrible the murder of Mary Hogan seemed he said to satisfy this dark need or
00:23:46
urge that he was feeling he said for a few years wow until the fall of 1957 when he murdered Bernice warden so
00:23:54
that's very interesting and also a very horrifying study of this guy according to him went years which is interesting
00:24:03
yeah cuz it doesn't happen obviously it happens but it doesn't happen like one of those like strange occurrences where
00:24:09
it's like one then years later you don't do it again until years like it's allegedly but I do wonder if it's
00:24:17
because he had her around for years I think yeah it's like was part of it yeah I think it is part of it um with each
00:24:24
new story published about Edge the American public's fascination is just growing I mean this is a this is a new
00:24:31
thing like no one's ever seen this to the point that guards had to be appointed to the G Farmstead to keep the
00:24:37
public from entering the home digging through the contents of the house and contaminating evidence or otherwise
00:24:44
influencing the case I would not want to go there while that was an active crime
00:24:48
scene no thank you you want to you really want to stumble upon that horror voluntarily that's the thing you want to
00:24:53
what what are you doing like come on you sure about that you sure about that but
00:24:58
for three weeks a full-time security guard with support from County deputies guarded the property Around the Clock
00:25:05
until crime scene technicians finally finished the excavation in early December wow um so psychiatrists and
00:25:11
medical professionals had a field day with Ed obviously uh they labeled him and these are people who weren't seeing
00:25:18
him had never met him just speaking out of turn which like isn't it true that you're not technically supposed to
00:25:24
diagnose somebody you've never met no you're definitely not supposed to uh they were lab in him a sexual psychopath
00:25:30
a schizophrenic and many other terms that at that point in 1957 the American public had never even heard of wow like
00:25:36
they had no idea what any of this meant and in the meantime Ed was being arraigned at the wasara courthouse for
00:25:43
the murder of Bernice Warden standing before judge Herbert Bundy Ed's attorney William belter spoke on Ed's behalf and
00:25:50
pled not guilty by reason of insanity given the evidence collected at The Farmhouse it was kind of hard to argue
00:25:57
anything else so judge Bundy accepted that probable cause had been found and waved the preliminary hearing and
00:26:03
ordered that Ed be bound over for trial so in total the hearing took three minutes wow uh in the week that followed
00:26:11
his arrest many people tried to get more information from Ed about the murders about the items found in the home but
00:26:18
aside from his initial police interview his answers were mostly I don't know and
00:26:22
I don't remember Adams County Sheriff Frank surl suspected Ed knew something about The
00:26:28
Disappearance of two local Hunters a few years earlier really and had hoped now that he was under arrest that he might
00:26:34
be a little forthcoming with some information but Ed had nothing to say and now I'm like well I want to know
00:26:42
more about that like yeah cuz I'm like that's interesting CU you could see something like that happening two local
00:26:49
Hunters like they're in maybe they've stumbled on his property or something like that literally like Texas jsaw
00:26:55
Massac literally like Texas Chainsaw Massacre like cuz as we'll find out later and as some of you I'm sure know
00:27:02
Leatherface and that whole family is kind of loosely inspired by these events yes but yeah he had nothing to say about
00:27:11
that huh not not that he like you know he didn't do it he just had nothing to say about
00:27:17
it yeah what he wanted at this time and he had been requesting it for several days was to speak to a
00:27:23
minister so on yeah what [ __ ] Minister wanted to go talk to or obviously didn't want to but had to go
00:27:33
talk to Ed G well on November 22nd shle finally got around to bringing one into the jail house how do you convince that
00:27:41
that person to go do that well so it's impossible really for us to know if if anybody like who Ed had in mind when he
00:27:49
requested a minister but I'm willing to bet that he definitely wasn't going to ask for Reverend Kenneth Engelman um he
00:27:56
was only 33 years old he looked a lot younger than 33 he was also of a different Faith he was Methodist and Ed
00:28:03
was Lutheran oh okay um Ed was pretty pleased to see him though like I don't know what he was what he wanted I'm like
00:28:11
he's not the same religion as you but maybe just to confess his sins yeah maybe it was just some kind of comfort
00:28:16
and afterwards like after they spoke which I was like whoa um Reverend Engelman held a press conference and he
00:28:22
told reporters how it went he said Ed G is a man who needs help yes and according to englman the two prayed
00:28:31
together in Ed's cell and that's when inside of the cell I be like we can do this bar separating us bar separating us
00:28:38
girl but Ed began sobbing and he said he was quote sorry for himself for having gotten in
00:28:46
trouble and then he said what and so a reporter so you hear that and you're like so you're just sorry you got caught
00:28:53
and it's like you weren't even trying to pretend that you were crying for something else that's what makes me
00:28:57
think like he has no idea what's right and wrong no idea he's just like like or that like he's just detached he's
00:29:06
totally detached from this yeah cuz obviously he knows like just the fact know right and wrong right of course but
00:29:12
like he just doesn't see it the same like this is not a man who is looking at things the same way that you or I am
00:29:18
like you know what I mean like this is and he's just outwardly being like I'm just really sad that I got in trouble
00:29:24
you know what the [ __ ] and so reporters asked him whether he expressed sorrow for the persons he had injured and
00:29:31
Engelman said no he never did he never expressed Sor sorrow or remorse for any of
00:29:40
it which is so [ __ ] monstrous so beyond and if that was your family member you would want five minutes in
00:29:47
that cell oh it would be on site I'd be like let's go like this would be like yeah finish him but you also be
00:29:54
terrified you'd be like like obviously anybody who murderers somebody is a monster but Ed goes so far beyond
00:30:01
monster in a in a completely like you can't comprehend him no and I keep say there's just no words it's Indescribable
00:30:12
what he did and how he reacted to what he did yeah and even he doesn't seem to fully like he points to things that he
00:30:20
thinks is the reason and it's like I think he holds those as his reasons and it's like okay like what yeah but you
00:30:28
just think of it's hard to like grasp it all at once cuz it's there's so much in
00:30:32
this that you're just like I can't conceive of this but you just have to think of this man sitting in this house
00:30:39
which he's boarded off his mother's bedroom as like a shrine and he's sitting in just like filth and
00:30:47
surrounded by dead bodies decapitated heads and body parts all day and all night that man is closing his eyes
00:30:58
in a bed where full articulated skeletons are attached to the bed I don't know what to say there's no
00:31:08
this doesn't seem real that's why when movies were made later yeah Cinema magic cuz it's just like that's not real and
00:31:17
then you think about it and you're like oh my God that's real was yeah like that's real [ __ ] that's so
00:31:24
inconceivable you think of these like he's just going been surrounded by death it's one of those things where you would
00:31:32
read it in a book or like see it see it in a movie and say that's too much and You' be like wow an imagination like no
00:31:39
it is real oh just the fact that he had no remorse none no sorrow and Noor just for himself now while the press clamored
00:31:50
for any scrap of news they could publish on the story um and he was called at one
00:31:54
point the ghoul Slayer which I was like I don't know about that I don't know about that district attorney Earl kylen
00:32:01
and Ed's attorney were locked in an increasingly public battle over how the case should proceed in the legal sense
00:32:09
uh having entered a plea of Not Guilty by reason of insanity William belter was pushing hard for Ed to be examined by a
00:32:15
private psychiatrist as soon as possible I can understand that yeah so because he
00:32:21
said the the defense in order to have any evidence of value must obtain it now and while Edis and this was all while Ed
00:32:28
was still willing to talk this guy would shut down at a moment's notice so they were like we got to get this going now
00:32:34
while he remembers it while it's fresh while the while we can at least try to get him talking like if he goes silent
00:32:41
we're not going to get anything and obviously like you you don't want it to benefit the defense because like you
00:32:46
don't I don't think there's any chance that this guy would have walked he just would have gone to like a a mental
00:32:51
facility like a hospital but it would also be helpful for law enforcement and agencies like start understanding what
00:33:02
is what we're looking for here what's this profile what's happening in this brain like what you know what is in his
00:33:09
past that triggered certain things that he's done you know even if just to help like people who profile or yeah anything
00:33:15
honestly it's like you you need this and belter told reporters the important question is whether Edge is insane now
00:33:23
not three five or 10 years from now which is true yeah but kyen or kyen on the other hand was pushing for a speedy
00:33:31
trial he just wanted to push it through now G appeared before judge Bundy a few weeks later and this time kylen had
00:33:38
changed his stance and actually shocked Spectators when after Ed um entered a second plea of Not Guilty by reason of
00:33:45
insanity the district attorney recommended that he be evaluated by psychiatrists at the Central State
00:33:51
hospital before proceeding with the trial wow so he's now changed his tune to be like we should have this guy
00:33:57
looked that I wonder how much sa like family members got in that I wonder too because I I doubt a lot to be honest
00:34:04
probably not back then and honestly this was a politically risky stance he took yeah because um according to sheer most
00:34:11
people felt hospitalization would be tantamount to him getting away with murder especially in the 50s you can
00:34:18
understand why people would feel that thought it was just going to be him getting away with it well there was no
00:34:22
mental health awareness whatsoever so kylen couldn't ignore the fact that what they'd seen at the G Farm was well
00:34:28
outside the bounds of Sanity like he was like I can't pretend that this is sane what we saw like there's got to be
00:34:35
something here you know and he said I don't know whether a person in his right mind would do that sort of thing or not
00:34:41
and then he and that's what he conceded he was like I guess we've seen bad people do bad things but like this is
00:34:48
kind of outside the scope of that so I don't know and I'm glad he kind of like went this way cuz he's like I can't say
00:34:55
whether this is sane or insane behavior and like I think a psychiatrist needs to
00:34:59
tell us like none of us can determine this well the judge agreed and ordered the examination now there was no
00:35:06
question that Ed had murdered Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden uh he would be punished for those crimes but the other
00:35:12
bodies found at the farm presented a larger problem for the district attorney specifically where were the additional
00:35:18
victims that Ed simply refused to take responsibility for like we don't even know who everybody is in this house and
00:35:24
we need to return people back to where they were resed although he had already explained that the bodies and body parts
00:35:30
discovered in the house were taken from graves few people in planfield including
00:35:35
some in law enforcement found it plausible that Meek little Ed G had the were withal or the strength to dig up
00:35:41
all those bodies a lot of people thought he killed more people I get it and I don't blame people for thinking that and
00:35:48
people in law enforcement thought that I kind of lean toward that opinion besides
00:35:52
they reasoned wouldn't someone have noticed if random Graves had been dug up around the cemeteries in town like no
00:35:57
one noticed this because the sheer number of things and body parts and everything that was found in his house
00:36:04
and I was just saying earlier like you would go to your loved one's grave and visit them because again these are
00:36:09
recently deceased people exactly and we were talking about nine masks he made that's nine women who he skinned the
00:36:16
faces off of but also what I'm thinking is he did go after recently deceased which means recently buried so it would
00:36:24
be harder to determine that those were Disturbed Graves that's a good point the is already Disturbed yep recently yep
00:36:30
that's a good point so you can look at it both ways I can understand why people were like would we have not noticed this
00:36:35
it's like Maybe not maybe you're right like maybe maybe that is wild to think about and to be like okay maybe he kills
00:36:42
more people than we think and he's just doing this right but on the other hand he did go after recently deceased like
00:36:47
their obituaries were right in the paper that week and the dirt was and the dirt
00:36:52
was already recently Disturbed so he could have just gone and put it back and it really wouldn't have looked any
00:36:57
different so there's that you also think about that and you're like is that why you did
00:37:03
that well that's the thing I'm like that's pretty diabolical and like you have those I don't want to call that
00:37:07
reasoning but like it sort of is but that kind of like your brand of logical thinking you
00:37:14
know like where you're planning this out because you know you won't get caught that way right and it's the same thing
00:37:19
of like he went into Bernice warden's store with ammunition in his pocket and went to the gun that he knew that
00:37:25
ammunition went into and knew well that her son was going to be off the of for so there's a lot of like premeditation
00:37:32
here as well right but there's also a lot of insanity so it's like that's why it is necessary to get
00:37:39
him looked at by a psychiatrist cuz none of this makes sense none of it correlates but in this case though the
00:37:45
only way to be sure the bodies at the farm weren't additional murder victims was to get Ed to identify the bodies at
00:37:51
the house and disiner the caskets and confirm that they were missing from their plots and did they do they tried
00:37:58
to do that well the thing was wasara County was in relative like Financial straight like they weren't doing great
00:38:06
it's not like they had all this money to throw around it was a small community it
00:38:09
wasn't like you know very equipment needed and the g investigation and trial threatened to eat up a huge amount of
00:38:16
the County's budget in the prosecution of the Hogan and Warden cases alone so the idea of adding 8 to 10 at least
00:38:24
disinterment to the price tag and the cost of processing any additional evidence it seemed unwise and a little
00:38:32
from what they their point of view at the time they felt it was unnecessary okay also it was the dead of winter so
00:38:40
the process was going to be a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive if it was even possible to do it that timez
00:38:47
it's Frozen um still when Ed was arrested kylen vowed to the public that he would do everything in his power to
00:38:54
ensure that Ed would never walk the streets again and given his recent agreement to the psychiatric evaluation
00:39:00
he needed something to offset the appearance that he was going soft on the case now cuz he was people in Playfield
00:39:06
want this guy gone like done which I can't say I blame him no but he's now looking at it from an inside perspective
00:39:13
seeing all the evidence that everybody's not seeing seeing the interviews seeing
00:39:16
all this stuff that's why he's gone to this like he should be evaluated yeah but that also opens up the possibility
00:39:24
that he could walk the streets again he could be let out of a psychiatric facility when he is deemed sane and
00:39:31
that's terrifying yeah and that's the fear CU how do you reform that and he's vowing to the public he'll never walk
00:39:37
the streets again but now he's saying he does need a psychiatric evaluation he might need to be in a hospital so it's
00:39:43
like he's really teetering which I I'll give it to him it sounds like he was going with the right moral stance of
00:39:51
like I can't just posture to people I have to be real and be like do the right thing seems like this is a a matter of
00:39:59
like we got to determ in the sanity here now surprisingly Ed was mostly forthcoming with the identities of the
00:40:06
women whose Graves he'd opened and by early December he'd named at least seven okay however before kyen and some local
00:40:14
Cemetery workers would charge in and dig up the graves State Crime Lab Chief Charles Wilson loudly protested to this
00:40:21
he told kylen and the Press we can determine scientifically if the graves have been quote unquote molested that's
00:40:28
how he called to put why um so they needn't dig up and open the caskets okay um but kylen answered and I can see
00:40:36
where he's coming from he said scientific findings won't convince the people these people in plan Fields want
00:40:42
those Graves opened I get what he's saying and it's true they're not the people of plan fields are in 57 are not
00:40:49
going to hear like scientifically we can tell if they've been disturb like they're going to be like [ __ ] no open it
00:40:53
up I want to see like they're not going to believe you yeah like I want to know for sure yeah they they've been [ __ ]
00:40:59
up by this they want to know absolutely so the problem as far as kyen saw it was
00:41:03
that soil analysis and scientific testing could also take weeks or months and he didn't expensive too exactly and
00:41:10
he didn't think the residents of planfield were going to be willing to wait that long to find out whether Ed
00:41:14
was bullshitting them or not so while kylen and the State Crime Lab were arguing over whether or how to disiner
00:41:21
the graves of the locals Ed was transferred to the Central State Hospital at won and and instantly became
00:41:29
the most infamous patient the hospital had ever seen uh head psychiatrist Edward Schubert told reporters our
00:41:35
primary purpose is to determine the legal question of Gan sanity but we will do a complete work up on him and find
00:41:41
out just why he has reacted in the way he did now in the meantime Ed had a theory of his own about what caused him
00:41:49
to snap and he finally was open about talking about it um he talked to to his lawyer actually about it first before he
00:41:56
or like while he was being being transferred to the hospital according to Ed in 1945 he and his mother had visited
00:42:03
a neighbor Farm to purchase some straw mhm and he said while they were there they went and this is really awful I'm
00:42:08
kind of brief mention of animal cruelty so trigger warning I'll Breeze over it um while they were there they witnessed
00:42:17
the farmer kill a puppy oh God which caused a woman to come running out of The Farmhouse hysterically imploring him
00:42:27
to stop of course the scene very much upset Augusta G yeah not because of the violence she didn't give a [ __ ] about
00:42:36
the puppy but because the woman quote wasn't married to that farmer and shouldn't have been at his
00:42:43
house are you [ __ ] kidding me no I'm not [ __ ] kidding you yeah so she what and that's what you
00:42:53
tell your kid Miss austene like that's what you tell your kid to gather from that situation Miss austa watched a man
00:43:01
violently kill a puppy and was upset because a woman who got upset about it wasn't married to that farmer and
00:43:09
shouldn't have been in his house also you don't know why the [ __ ] she's there in the first place and also gets so
00:43:14
[ __ ] Augusta like are you kidding me what yeah what yeah it was the farmer's immorality and wickedness Ed claimed
00:43:26
that because that or the far the woman's immorality and wickedness that Ed cleed
00:43:31
had caused his mother's second stroke and eventually her death which led to his unbearable loneliness and drove him
00:43:37
to violence what yeah what yeah what yes I yeah what yep yep yep make it make sense I will not
00:43:58
there's no way I cannot that I cannot do uh Noe I yeah that's what that's how broken that is up there what the [ __ ]
00:44:09
dude he said that with his whole chest that that's what led him to do this you have to wonder what other instances they
00:44:17
ran into as a Duo as a Duo and austa was like that too like what and you would think with that when you first hear the
00:44:26
the beginning of the story you're like oh my God he watched like a farmer like hurt a puppy like that's [ __ ] up and
00:44:32
that'll like really stay with you no it's not that I thought you were going to say he was like [ __ ] up and like
00:44:37
got excited that that happen he breezed over that although there was something he also said and this is really gross as
00:44:43
well I'm just going to Breeze over it because I think it's important to at least mention um he said when he was
00:44:50
like eight years old right like really young he walked into a shed on the farm and saw his mother and his father like
00:44:56
um preparing I think it was a pig okay um which they had like cut open like it's
00:45:03
pretty horrific yeah um essentially they're like it was like hanging like Bernice and Mary were and he said it
00:45:13
excited him to watch that happen so there is another quick little insight into into that mind of his at a very
00:45:22
young age that's the thing he was so young when that happened what did you just say eight I think he was he was
00:45:27
somewhere around that age like very young what the f so that leads you to believe like you're already like
00:45:34
something innately is [ __ ] up in you and you're just seeing too much and you're being exposed to a lot
00:45:40
of Big Ideas you know so God only knows what literally God only knows what Augusta was saying it's true so that's
00:45:49
interesting so Ed's explanation is very obviously like the delusional justifications of a very broken mind
00:45:57
like that is you're like no I don't think that works said um but his self diagnosis did reveal something about his
00:46:03
actual motive which is from the moment Ed was born Augusta G had done everything she could to impart to him
00:46:10
her belief that women's wickedness was responsible for all the world's problems it was women's wickedness like in this
00:46:19
story about the farmer and the dog it wasn't the farmer it wasn't the farmer's explosive Act of unbelievable cruelty
00:46:25
and violence that started her into her second stroke it was the fact that he had been in the presence of a woman to
00:46:32
whom he was not married that's also just the fact that she was like like they're just in each
00:46:39
other's presence yeah I'm like but you're out his house so like are you wrong yeah you like what are you you're
00:46:47
interpreting so much from that woman just being at his [ __ ] house yeah you're at his house and she's just
00:46:54
driving into this kid that women are responsible for everything bad in the world they will [ __ ] with you they are
00:47:01
wicked they are manipulative don't trust them they want to ruin you they want to
00:47:07
take you from me like all this [ __ ] at such a young age and what is he going to
00:47:12
look at woman like later I'm like Augusta what did you want out of this that's what I don't get like I'm like
00:47:18
what was the end game it was so self- serving I don't think there was an end game for Ed there was an end game for
00:47:24
her yeah that's all it was she's taken care of right and who cares what happens afterwards that's another level of evil
00:47:33
too that really is she did I mean nothing compares to what Ed did and where he went but like but that's a
00:47:39
totally different Side Story of Evil as well that is evil but also it wasn't Augusta's Relentless psychological abuse
00:47:46
that led to his murdering Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden but the fact that those women had so closely resembled his
00:47:53
mother physically but betrayed her saintliness in character to him like that was his reason for those cuz they
00:48:01
were like boss [ __ ] doing Boss [ __ ] stuff exactly CU they were just doing their thing William belter told
00:48:07
reporters oddly he blames the women if she or she blame he blames the woman he's talking about the farmer one oh oh
00:48:14
okay he said oddly he blames the woman if she hadn't been there his mother wouldn't have had the stroke and he
00:48:19
wouldn't have been left alone that's what he looked at it as if that woman wasn't there so it's her fault I would
00:48:25
have just watched this farmer Cru kill a puppy I would have been fine like that's what he's Justified
00:48:32
like that's it that's inconceivable to me it really is I'm so shook now almost immediately
00:48:39
following his arrival at Central State Hospital in early December Ed started a battery of tests that would take nearly
00:48:46
a month to complete um there were some that were physical tests um like extensive examinations of his body his
00:48:53
blood uh biological and physiological functioning all of these were determined to be
00:48:59
within normal range for a 51y old man physically he was fine okay uh despite that Ed seemed to find the physical
00:49:07
examinations so frustrating and so daunting he would frequently whine like a whiner uh about headaches and nausea
00:49:16
and he would complain that he needed a wheelchair he was only 51 are you kidding me I like you were dragging
00:49:22
people out of their graves and bringing them home you kill two women and you strung them up and mutilated them and
00:49:30
you're complaining because you might have to walk on a [ __ ] treadmill that's shut up shut up Ed shut up
00:49:37
another common complaint for from Ed and this is interesting was that he he said
00:49:42
there was a lot of offensive smells that he would smell that the hos yeah thank you I know Ash is losing her mind no
00:49:51
[ __ ] what yeah like you lived in that house you lived in that house full of every we know it was full of and the
00:49:58
hospital okay Mary Cosby what that's what I have so I have a theory I have a theory uh so he would he would say all
00:50:05
these offensive smells were happening that the hospital staff was like we don't smell these like what are you
00:50:09
talking about and finally one of the doctors was like what does it smell like what are you talking about no he said it
00:50:16
smells like flesh don't you like that I can tell you 100% with 100% certainty after performing an autopsy I have the
00:50:25
smell in my nose for a little while yeah it sticks around and sometimes things food will
00:50:32
smell like it it it sticks for a minute and but that's just doing an autopsy and
00:50:38
it goes away living in a place where all you smell 24/7 is the smell of Flesh and
00:50:47
decomposition I wonder if it was just there he just smelled it but he wasn't complaining when he was at home but
00:50:54
that's what I mean you go smell blind while you're there and then you leave and all of a sudden you're like like why
00:50:59
do I smell this everywhere like I would be like do I smell like it like I would make John smell me like but while you're
00:51:04
in there you're just doing your thing and I'm obviously saying an autopsies so I'm imagining in his home he would not
00:51:13
really notice it because he's there all the time what but then he's going to this place that's clean and like
00:51:19
probably smells like cleaning products and other things like that like clinically clean I'm like maybe he
00:51:25
doesn't like smell of his environment and I think it's triggering I think that smell is stuck in cuz I
00:51:30
don't know this was right after so it's like I don't think that was the case for
00:51:34
the rest of his life that he would smell these foul smells all the time I think it was like maybe he was still just
00:51:39
smelling what he was living in for the last however many years that's Bonkers to me I truly like I see what you're
00:51:45
saying and I definitely think that could be it cuz I haven't had that experience
00:51:49
but I [ __ ] wonder if that guy just didn't like the smell of clean but he said it smells like flesh that's what he
00:51:54
was saying no they literally a doctor said Ed what does it smell like and he said it smells like
00:51:59
flesh what the [ __ ] and that man knew what that smelled like he wasn't confusing cleaning product no and you
00:52:05
sat in your house and like did nobody say to him Ed you don't think your [ __ ] house smells like flesh well
00:52:12
then I'm wondering I'm like this is a hospital environment they've done you know they've done autopsies they've all
00:52:18
been through gross anatomy they've smelled body smells sure I wonder if they're like that's it like your
00:52:26
probably smelling what you smell when you're around it that is and you're coming out of that environment now and
00:52:32
it's stuck in your nose this just gets more [ __ ] up as we go I'm it's real [ __ ] up what but yeah
00:52:40
so the ne and also I want you to picture like being a doctor and like this guy just keeps complaining about the bad
00:52:45
smells and you're like Ed what does it smell like and he just says it smells like flesh I'd be like I got to go like
00:52:51
I'd be like I'm retiring today no I'm just this wasn't what I wanted today here's my two that's a lot anybody who
00:52:57
says it smells like flesh it's like what the [ __ ] Ed now the next step was the
00:53:03
Baseline psychological and neuros pychological exams and the doctors at Central State yeah they established that
00:53:10
Ed had an IQ of 89 which would put him in the low to average category some sources I found
00:53:16
did say 99 which would put him more towards the average okay he wasn't exceedingly low you know like it's not
00:53:22
like he was like down at the bottom well if you think about it he left school in
00:53:25
eth grade so a lot of that like testing is probably just like basic stuff you learn in school exactly and honestly
00:53:31
they also noted that he possessed quote a fair amount of information a good vocabulary and an ability to reason
00:53:37
abstractly so um cuz he read a lot mm this suggested that despite the um the wesler adult intelligence test despite
00:53:46
what it indicated he was likely more intelligent than he appeared um also the results of the the RAR Shack I can never
00:53:53
say that right RAR Shack assessment which is the ink blot test oh okay um they were a quote not that of a well
00:54:00
person but of one with insufficient ego immaturity conflict concerning identification and possibly the presence
00:54:07
of illogical thought processes correct I believe that yeah additional tests revealed things many had suspected but
00:54:15
couldn't confirm Ed possessed bizarre and Powerful religious beliefs he strongly identified with feminine
00:54:21
figures and he had a strikingly immature level of sexuality characterized by strong feelings of guilt okay so a lot
00:54:30
of conflicting feelings happening here and things he wasn't able to understand or actually like put a finger on you
00:54:37
know cuz he was so jumbled up as a kid right with so many different messages when considered together the results
00:54:44
painted a picture of a man who was of average intelligence very suggestible but emotionally dull and prone to
00:54:52
irrational inappropriate and aggressive responses which which is not great no that's kind of the worst the earlier
00:55:00
tests were useful in establishing a baseline but the more in-depth testing proved more useful at identifying Ed's
00:55:07
true motives for his very shocking behaviors during an assessment of his social and sexual histories EDS rigid
00:55:15
beliefs about morality and more specifically the immorality of sex were a frequent topic with him at one point
00:55:22
exclaiming morality is pretty low in plan field which is what his mother would always always say yeah with regard
00:55:28
to his victims Ed explained Mary Hogan quote was a Dirty Talker operated a Tavern and people said she was in some
00:55:34
crooked business so even just the fact that she operated a Tavern that he literally went to before he even
00:55:41
developed like any kind of hating feelings about her you like but it's okay that you're at the tavern exactly
00:55:49
because she's a woman she can own a be and also she can't she can't swear his mother would have been horrified
00:55:54
swearing is inappropriate of course not oh my God Augusta I know Augusta would have lost her godamn mind now about
00:56:01
Bernice Warden uh he said quote she wooed her husband away from another girl and married him shortly after that other
00:56:09
girl committed suicide that's a quote so this [ __ ] is also just like gossiping he's just going on rumors
00:56:16
like he's just he's just following the rumor mill and being like well she should die then like you don't even know
00:56:20
yeah his attitudes towards women in general were very negative and his attitudes towards victims were similarly
00:56:27
negative and reflected the belief that their deaths were a just punishment for their sins like he's playing God yeah he
00:56:33
said they were they were sins like they were sinful so they should die I took care of I did it I did the correct thing
00:56:40
like that's why he just doesn't see it as like I don't get it what's the problem broadly speaking Ed seemed more
00:56:47
or less incapable of taking any responsibility for his actions like personal responsibility and frequently
00:56:53
blamed his behavior on everyone else he said quote if his neighbors had shown some interest in him and would have
00:56:59
visited then he probably wouldn't have been so lonely and engaged in illegal acts I don't really think like all this
00:57:06
happened cuz nobody stopped by to ask you for some sugar I feel like this was going to happen like I don't think it
00:57:13
helped that you were so isolated and I think that probably made you way [ __ ] weirder than you ever would have been
00:57:18
exactly but I I don't think we should blame everybody else I don't think it's the neighbors fault here I think so they
00:57:23
were by all accounts everybody he came into town everybody was kind to him and nice to him and went about their
00:57:31
business yeah and I'm sure it kind of sounds like Augusta turned people away oh 100 nobody was allowed at that farm
00:57:37
for their whole life I'm like blame your mom right she turned everybody away you
00:57:40
would have had friends probably exactly and also he frequently fixated on small slights and misunderstandings that had
00:57:47
occurred throughout his lifetime like they were far more significant Reflections about how other people felt
00:57:52
about him okay he would like very much focus on the minutia in like simplistic terms everyone treated him poorly
00:57:59
everyone took advantage of him which is what led him to do what he did not him huh had nothing to do with
00:58:06
him okay when it came to the murders Ed was far vager about it he frequently claimed not to remember a lot of the
00:58:15
details of the murders but in the case of warden's death he was confident it was an accident that had occurred when
00:58:21
the gun discharged accidentally though he doesn't explain how or why he physically loaded the gun
00:58:28
with bullets he brought into the store in the first place got it and they were like can you explain that no I just
00:58:34
travel with bullets in my FR pocket just an accident that you loaded the gun the
00:58:38
exact gun that you had the exact bullets for in your pocket no sir these are the
00:58:44
things that you're like [ __ ] off Ed like I can I see you yeah and you're lying
00:58:50
because you know and you're lying trying to make it sound like this was accidental because you know that it's
00:58:55
wrongly ex and you know you're going to be punished there is no Rhyme or Reason to this man it's it's increasingly
00:59:02
frustrating is I can't imagine being part of this investigation and like the people in the hospital and everything
00:59:08
having to deal with this also he claimed not to remember loading Bernice's body onto the truck or returning to the farm
00:59:15
but he didn't deny having killed her or mutilated her body so he admitted that in their conclusions the doctors at
00:59:21
Central State determined that edge social and physical isolation along with the powerful influence of his mother led
00:59:28
him to develop a strong and rigid set of beliefs about himself and those around him that were rooted in religious
00:59:34
understandings of right and wrong um following his mother's death he engaged in a very intense fantasy life in order
00:59:42
to cope with the profound grief anxiety and stress that was by all counts consuming him which eventually required
00:59:49
more elaborate acts to achieve the desired effect hence the grave robbing he denied ever Eng engaging in sex with
00:59:56
the bodies not necrophilia he said he did not do that um and he said at no time did I even attempt or consider
01:00:03
eating any flesh okay as far as his tendency to forget details of the more uh emotionally charged situations Dr
01:00:12
Schubert suggested it was kind of a quote self-serving Amnesia yeah engaged to help him cope with the more un
01:00:18
unacceptable acts such as murder kind of like what you said about I think he just
01:00:24
kind of like FS Amnesia because it's like a self-preservation technique that like his brain is just kind of doing for
01:00:31
him where he knows those are unacceptable so he's like I don't remember he has Housewives Amnesia there
01:00:38
you go as for why he murdered Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden Schubert stated that
01:00:43
Ed's motivation for the actions quote is Elusive and uncertain but several factors come to mind hostility sex and a
01:00:50
desire for a substitute for his mother in the form of a replica or body that could be kept indef itely but in support
01:00:57
of this Theory Schubert pointed to Ed's frequent comments about the bodies being
01:01:02
like dolls that's how he would refer to them and how he was often comforted by their
01:01:09
presence so when we talk about this man went to sleep with like skeletons attached to his bed he was comforted by
01:01:16
all of that like this is what gave him his like is Sinister yeah that Sinister is a perfect way to describe it yeah
01:01:25
basically Edge mental state and frequent delusions were the result of a complex combination of social environmental and
01:01:32
psychological factors that while useful in understanding him a little bit like at least trying to understand him it
01:01:40
would never adequately or to any satisfaction explain why he did what he did not at all uh he was frequently
01:01:47
paranoid delusional he experienced hallucinations to which he responded with bizarre behavior and violence
01:01:54
sometimes even when he didn't remember doing so so there was a lot going on here that nobody could understand um
01:02:01
based on all the test results and examinations the medical and psychiatric staff at Central State Hospital
01:02:07
unanimously agreed that edge met easily met the legal definition of insanity and
01:02:13
was not competent to stand trial at that time yeah I mean I can see why they felt
01:02:17
that way in his summary review sent to the judge along with the test results Dr Schubert wrote Mr G has been suffering
01:02:23
from a schizophrenic process of an undet number of years uh for an undetermined number of years as a result although Mr
01:02:31
G might no voice knowledge of the difference between right and wrong his ability to make such judgment would be
01:02:37
influenced by the existent mental illness he would not be capable of fully realizing the consequence of any act
01:02:44
because he would not be a free agent to determine either the nature or the consequence of Acts which resulted from
01:02:50
Disturbed and abnormal thinking because of these findings I must recommend his commitment to Central State Hospital
01:02:57
okay now in January 1958 a hearing was held to formally determine whether G was fit to stand trial and during his
01:03:05
testimony Dr Schubert's explained Dr Schubert explained that Ed was a schizophrenic who had insufficient ego
01:03:12
was immature lived a rather expansive Fantasy Life centered about himself and had little faith in people uh yeah
01:03:20
sounds right on the money Schubert believed gan's illness had been chronic and he had been experiencing symptoms
01:03:27
for at least the last 12 years and because he was unable to give a chronological account of his life and
01:03:32
the events related to his crimes he was not able to participate in his defense making him incompetent to stand
01:03:39
trial so to the people of Plainfield the determination seemed Preposterous I can also understand that
01:03:47
they were outraged that Ed appeared to be getting off with a light sentence from what they saw like especially with
01:03:54
a lack of understanding of mental health and everything that goes along with it especially during that time I would also
01:04:01
be upset like you have to consider the fact that these people are not necessarily well educated and don't have
01:04:06
all the resources about these kinds of things and like you said some of the things that they were talking about like
01:04:12
the diagnoses these people had never heard of like the americ the American people I'm not saying cuz they're like
01:04:17
in a small town they don't know no literally like America that's what I'm saying yeah like so it's like you can
01:04:22
understand why they'd be like I feel like this is a [ __ ] pop out yeah ex they were pissed and they were they I
01:04:28
mean this was ghoulish this was horrible this was a nightmare and this and these
01:04:32
were people that cuz again a small community people they loved and respected and exact knew was like an
01:04:39
institution right like Bernice Warden and Mar and Mary Hogan as well like that everyone to that but Bernice Warden it
01:04:46
was like that was an institution that hardware store right like she was just she was named citizen of the week you
01:04:52
know like she was everybody knew her yeah and people were even more outraged because
01:04:58
they were like we've known him our entire lives for the most part like everyone in that town had known him
01:05:03
forever and they're like I never saw anything and well they were like yeah he's odd and they said like sometimes
01:05:09
and they refer to him as like simple quote unquote yeah which is not they said he hardly seemed to be what they
01:05:15
termed psychotic well because now all of a sudden he's having these violent hallucinations we let him babysit our
01:05:22
children he wasn't having these violent outbursts do you think some of them were
01:05:26
potentially like put on I wonder or do you think it was all the stress that he was under CU that could start it too I
01:05:33
can see both of those being the case for sure I could easily see him play acting
01:05:38
this whole thing and kind of manipulating everybody or I can see that it's just he snapped when you're put
01:05:44
under stress like and it all started coming out but you do I mean as a citizen of that town and seeing him your
01:05:50
whole life and letting him your kid and he was fine MH I'd be like I don't [ __ ] think so so I can understand why
01:05:57
they're like this sucks but of course on the flip side of that in 1958 few people outside of the
01:06:05
medical and psychiatric Community even knew what schizophrenia was much less how it could manifest right so matter no
01:06:12
matter how well it was explained to them they most likely would never believe Ed
01:06:17
had a very serious and extremely complicated mental on this it was just too much to to tell everybody what it
01:06:24
was you know like that nobody's going to get it right cuz it's the first time they've ever even heard it it's too
01:06:28
complex and there's not like a ton of research or yeah they can't just call a Town Hall and be like let me explain
01:06:33
schizophrenia to you and like how it manifests why this is so complex why these behaviors might make sense like
01:06:39
we're still about this yeah but regardless of how the town's people felt judge Bundy accepted the recommendation
01:06:45
of Schubert and the other doctors at Central State Hospital and Ed was sent back to the hospital where he could stay
01:06:51
for the next 10 years now although it may have appeared as though Ed G was quote unquote evading
01:06:58
Justice by being confined to the state hospital State Attorney General Stuart HCK assured wisconsinites quote upon his
01:07:07
recovery if that should occur the defendant may still be brought to trial they like he's not just going to be let
01:07:12
out if he is found to have recovered and is found to be sane he will go on trial
01:07:18
okay so while that was probably little Comfort to the friends and families of the victims at the time or the residents
01:07:23
of plan fields that day did eventually come in February of 1968 when Ed was found to be competent to stand trial for
01:07:31
the murders of Bernice Warden and Mary Hogan in recent years Ed had become a model patient at the hospital and had
01:07:38
shown considerable Improvement since his arrival even to the point of holding a job at the hospital's lapidary lapidary
01:07:45
what is that and it's relating to Stone and gems and the work involving engraving cutting or polishing them so
01:07:52
like he was making rings and [ __ ] so he was like I think it was more like Engravings and stone and stuff I don't
01:07:59
want that I mean who does really but but he was doing it he was holding a job there huh um and a hospital SP Sparks
01:08:08
person Sparks person a hospital spokesperson said quote he seems content to live day by day we've never had the
01:08:14
least bit of trouble with him kind of not dope that he gets to be content living day by day kind of not
01:08:23
dope kind of not dope that's a great way to describe kind of [ __ ] shitty I think that's a good blanket statement
01:08:30
for what happened here which kind of not dope like you just get to be content after you killed two question mark
01:08:38
question mark people so you know what super not and I'm saying like question mark question mark two like yeah like
01:08:45
more yeah at least two and possibly your brother yeah now despite being content though sorry yeah it's fine you're
01:08:52
content to live day by day despite being found competent to stand trial Schubert
01:08:57
was emphatic that Ed was still profoundly mentally ill correct and was unlikely to improve any more than he had
01:09:05
in the time since he arrived he said quote I doubt if Mr G will ever change and truly with the hor horrific
01:09:12
Discovery now a decade behind everyone most people around planfield would just as soon have left it in the past like
01:09:19
they didn't want to relive this all over again but Ed had spent 10 years locked in a psychiatric facility without ever
01:09:24
having trial for the crimes that put him in there and as far as he was concerned
01:09:29
as Ed was concerned he wanted his day in court huh he thought he was going to talk himself out of this one yeah I was
01:09:35
like do you really want your day in court the day finally came on November 7th 1968 and despite a courtroom
01:09:42
courtroom pact with press and Spectators it was very underwhelming the event uh because Ed opted for a bench trial the
01:09:49
prosecutor spent just one day presenting his case to the judge which was by then
01:09:54
very familiar to every in the courtroom and the defense spent just a few a few days more to present their
01:10:00
case of Not Guilty by reason of insanity it was as though everyone was simply just like kind of going through the
01:10:07
motions to kind of satisfy gan's right to a fair trial like we just going to go through this on November 14th 1968 Ed
01:10:15
was found guilty of murder after which the second phase of the trial to determine his sanity at the time of the
01:10:21
murder began this too was over in a very short amount of time with the judge returning his conclusion that he was
01:10:28
insane after 2 days of testimony from Psychiatric uh psychiatrists at Central State Hospital based on the findings
01:10:36
Edan was returned to Central State Hospital where he would remain institutionalized until he was deemed
01:10:42
sane and no longer posed a threat to society although this technically meant like I said it was possible that Ed
01:10:49
could be released back into the community and he did in fact petition for this in 1974 the [ __ ] he did that
01:10:57
man petitioned to be let back out kind of not dope yeah definitely not dope um given the extent of his crimes and their
01:11:05
effect on the community there was no real chance of him ever being released from the hospital I'm like who the [ __ ]
01:11:10
signed that petition so Gan returned to Central State Hospital where he remained
01:11:14
until the facility was converted into a correctional facility in 1978 from there
01:11:20
he was transferred to Motta state hospital where he spent the days working watching TV reading books and
01:11:27
magazines just chilling just as he had for the previous two decades Ed remained a model patient never caused any
01:11:35
problems for the staff was never violent never did anything really wrong in the prison or excuse me in the hospital and
01:11:42
Ed G died of respiratory failure on July 26 1984 at the age of 77 I did not realize for some reason that he lived to
01:11:50
the'80s yeah to the ' 80s and he was 77 and he was buried in an unmarked plot in
01:11:55
the planfield cemetery wow now I mean I guess when you think about it like I was just so
01:12:00
annoyed that he got to like read books and watch TV you can also do those things in prison that's true I just
01:12:05
thought that to myself I was like really what's the difference it's true exactly
01:12:08
he's just getting treated at the same time and yeah I don't know but in March 1958 the G Farm became the property of
01:12:15
the county that was in 58 by the way we're going back for a minute okay okay so I just said that like we were still
01:12:20
in 1958 no it's okay um but in 1958 like in case you were wondering what happened
01:12:24
to the Farm yeah it was um it became the property of the county and the local Auction Company the farm sales service
01:12:30
of Reedsburg um they were contracted to auction the property in the landoff can you imagine having that place be your
01:12:37
responsibility no thank you like [ __ ] but prior to the auction the farm sales service of Reedsburg tried to cash in on
01:12:45
the notoriety of the Case Case uh by charging 50 cents to anyone who wanted to do a tour of the property in
01:12:52
buildings before they were sold off had been like cleaned up yet yeah uh I mean as much as it could I suppose huh I'm
01:13:03
not really sure what kind of uh crime scene cleanup they had back then but probably wasn't that
01:13:10
advanced but already exhausted and frustrated by the overwhelming attention the case was drawing the residents of
01:13:17
planfield vehemently objected to the admission fee and a judge quickly shut down the company's attempt to quote make
01:13:24
the house amus museum for The Morbid and I was like hey hey we for that we not ask for that we did not want to do that
01:13:32
wow a few weeks later the auction of the property and remaining contents of the house remaining contents of the house
01:13:41
the [ __ ] did that house contain whatever was left it was held and Drew more than
01:13:47
20,000 Spectators what which I can see the like morbid curiosity of wanting to see like
01:13:54
who buys this thing like I can understand like just being like what's going to happen here I can at least
01:14:00
understand the morbid curiosity of that like wanting to see who this goes to I I
01:14:05
see like both sides of it for me I wouldn't want to touch that with a 10 foot oh I feel like it's got such bad
01:14:11
energy that's the thing I'm such an energy human mhm um there was an arson fire that occurred on the property uh a
01:14:20
week before the auction you're trying to burn that energy into the air yeah it's
01:14:23
apparently uh it destroyed much of the main house actually and by the time the auction was held on March 23rd 1958 all
01:14:31
that remained was five old sheds in the foundation of the main house wow in the end the property and the remaining
01:14:38
contents of the farm were all sold for less than $4,000 which went to offsetting the
01:14:43
significant costs of the investigation and hearings uh in the decades that followed hunters and those exploring the
01:14:50
property surrounding the what was once the G farm would occasionally find human bones buried on and around the property
01:14:58
which is a really Sinister reminder of the Hideous things that had happened on that property abolutely for literally
01:15:06
decades Hunters would find human bones which I don't I feel like there's more he killed just two people I feel like
01:15:13
there's more man although his crimes were truly bizarre and shocking it's possible the story of Ed would have kind
01:15:21
of faded out into history with the passage of time and this a long time ago maybe but there was a a little known
01:15:30
strange fiction writer named Robert block that at the time of the murders he had been living in the Midwest and
01:15:37
started following the Gan case as it unfolded in the papers the story eventually became the basis for Block's
01:15:44
1959 novel psycho huh the year after its release Alfred Hitchcock you might have
01:15:50
heard of him I think maybe he adapted psycho for the big screen and created one of the most iconic and enduring
01:15:56
characters in horror Cinema Norman Bates I still need to see it despite being an
01:16:01
amalgamation of a few different characters Gan would become synonymous with the character of Norman Bates in
01:16:07
the years that followed um and his I mean ghoulish ghoulish acts would live on in horror Cinema most notably in
01:16:17
1974's Texas Chainsaw Massacre 1991's Silence of the Lambs and 2001's House of a Thousand Corpses oh I didn't realize
01:16:26
that was also yeah now Ed especially the name alone yeah you could you could call
01:16:31
the Gan Farmhouse of a Thousand Corpses seriously Ed Kean was not the first American murder murderer to capture the
01:16:37
Public's imagination but his crimes were so bizarre and so ghoulish and so beyond
01:16:43
anything we'd ever seen before that they definitely left a massive mark on the American psyche and inspired an interest
01:16:51
in crime and criminal behavior that really is what we have today like this is because think about it the psych the
01:16:58
the psychology aspect of this case is was so huge yeah absolutely that really took off um I think that much like the
01:17:05
murder of the Clutter family in 1959 the discoveries at the G Farm kind of represent this like shattering of a
01:17:13
collective innocence it's like a pivotal shift it really is it's just like oh [ __ ] like these people live among us
01:17:19
this is what can happen here and it was in you know the these were such brutal and crimes and they happen in what was
01:17:27
America's Heartland and they were committed by a mild mannered handyman in sometimes babysitter I wish you would
01:17:34
stop and if they can happen in the American Heartland they can happen anywhere and no one is ever going to be
01:17:43
safe again is that where you're ending is and that's where you crazy girl no but it
01:17:49
really was like this was the moment when everybody said this no one's safe yeah absolutely where where can we go in this
01:17:57
country that like if it can happen here it can happen anywhere you got to lock your doors you got to you know be
01:18:04
watching over your shoulder so scary this case gives me nightmares Edan I think the case is is so well known and
01:18:13
it's been covered so many times but it's like when you really hear all the all the nitty-gritty you learned something
01:18:19
new learn lot more to it I learned a lot and I've heard coverage of this before obviously like I I think I said in the
01:18:25
beginning not a ton like I've listened to a couple podcasts but even still I learned a lot with your coverage thanks
01:18:31
Dave you know I don't know if I'm better for it Dave Dave was a real one with this one I know Dave it was a it was a
01:18:40
journey like sorry a poor man a poor man what we put him through I know he's voluntarily you
01:18:49
know he's here okay he loves us he's here and we love him and he loves us F da listening right now being like not
01:18:55
this much he's like I don't love you guys at all shut up both of you oh my God yeah so that's the Ed gin
01:19:03
case well I'll be coming at you next with something pretty morbid there we go that's the the name of the show that's
01:19:11
the name of the game the name of the game and uh since no one's safe again we hope they keep listening we hope you
01:19:19
keep it weird I need like an ice cream or something get an ice cream I need like I
01:19:27
don't know I need a [Music] cocktail