00:00:00
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is morbid. This is morbid and we got even more
00:00:27
sound proofing. I know. We got like this cool like foamy thing in front of us. I can't see
00:00:35
anything though and it feels weird. I know it's so weird to be like professional. It's like we're in our own
00:00:41
personal miniature sound booth. It's like a sound booth for ants. It is a sound booth for ants.
00:00:47
Did you see the latest episode cuz this is now a Vanderpump Rules podcast? Um it's not. But did you see the latest
00:00:54
episode where Katie quoted Zoolander? I did. of you. I love that. I appreciate that. I love Zoolander. It was such a
00:01:01
niche reference. Funny to this day. And as soon as I see David Bowie say it's a walk-off, it's I'm over. I'm
00:01:10
done. I'm deceased. I made a weird noise. We watched it recently, John and I. Did you? Cuz we
00:01:16
just were like we we need some Zoolander in our life. Yeah. I just really wanted
00:01:20
to see Alexander Skarsgård yell orange mocha frappuccino. You could have just started at stopped at Skarsgård. Stopped
00:01:27
at Skarsgård but I needed to see the orange mocha frappuccino. Frappuccino! And then the gasoline fight, the best.
00:01:35
But as soon as David Bowie came on the screen and it goes let's dance in the background, I squealed and John was like
00:01:42
I've never heard that sound. He was like I really don't know how to feel about that.
00:01:47
What's going on? I was like he's just so handsome and he was so handsome in that
00:01:52
era. Oh my god, I know. He he was so handsome all over the place. It's like when you cried at The Last of Us and
00:01:58
none of us knew what to do. Yeah, guys. I don't know. If you're not watching that show, I
00:02:06
I was like against it cuz I just I'm like I'm so I don't know. Apocalypse stuff like stresses me out. At this
00:02:13
point, everyone in their mother is telling me to watch it. I mean my mother, Jonathan Van Ness, told me to
00:02:18
watch it. Right. Jonathan Van Ness told you that you have to. I know. That's the thing. It's one
00:02:23
of those shows that I was really like no, I don't want to get into this cuz I don't want to get into an apocalyptic
00:02:29
one. I watched the first episode and I was like this is all right. Yeah. Because I was being a dick. Like that's
00:02:35
like the first time I watched Zoolander. Yeah, I was just being a dick. I just wouldn't watch it. Then I watched the
00:02:39
second episode and I was like well [ __ ] now I care about these people. And by the third episode, I was ugly crying and
00:02:45
snot was running down my face. Is the third episode that episode? Oh yes and I you saw. I was threatening John. I was
00:02:51
literally sitting on the couch being like I cannot [ __ ] believe you made me watch this.
00:02:57
Cuz John had watched it before me. So he knew what was happening and so he filmed me. Yeah. Maybe I should maybe
00:03:04
I'll post it at some point just because it's hilarious. Elena like doesn't cry so it's really funny to see that. So it
00:03:10
would be pretty funny. You know what? Maybe I'll post it cuz it's pretty funny, I will say. I had
00:03:15
real emotions and I know a lot of people don't think I have real emotions so I think it would be good for people to
00:03:20
see. No, you do have real emotions. I've seen so much of them recently. They happen. I've seen them. You've seen
00:03:26
them. I've seen You know? Yeah. Yeah. Emotional baby boy. Emotional man. Well I think are you referring to the
00:03:42
emotions that I have for the new Yes. new additions? Yeah, that I was saying the front bottoms but I was just
00:03:48
wondering if we could talk about your family. Uh no, I am not pregnant. But I was so
00:03:57
What? Wait, why did I think you were pregnant the other day? Cuz I said I have some news. John and I have some
00:04:03
news and then I said I'm not pregnant. And I almost shat myself cuz I have a couple more years before Bibis and I
00:04:10
thought you could hold me over and you are just in a different way. different way because it's been over a year now
00:04:17
since we lost our our beloved Bubba, our beloved Bailey. And we had these two little
00:04:26
red fox labrador puppies fall into our lap. Born on Bubba's birthday. Born on Bailey's birthday and we had 365 days of
00:04:36
the year and they were born on Bailey's birthday. If that isn't Bailey sending those dogs to us, I don't know what is.
00:04:42
And they say that like your next dog or your your previous dog sends you your next dog or dogs. Now I'm fully
00:04:49
convinced. We were shell-shocked when we found that out and we were like they're
00:04:53
ours. We have to have them. And we found them found out about them like in the almost week of a tragedy. Yeah, so
00:05:00
it all kind of lined up and they're two gals. Are you going to say their names? Yeah. We got Sydney. Hello, Sydney. The
00:05:08
Sydney Prescott and now everyone every time I see her I can say I always had a thing for you, Syd. And she does. And I
00:05:15
do. And the other one is Blanche. And Blanche is a wily little [ __ ] Blanche Devereaux is really she's a
00:05:25
she's a feisty one. I love. I was Elena was like back and forth with names and when she was going to get them, I texted
00:05:30
and she was like oh my god, I got them and I was like what are the names? And she was like you have to wait because
00:05:35
one of them I want to tell you in person and it was Blanche. So I knew one was Syd and then I was like what is this
00:05:39
other dog's name going to be? Miss Blanche over there. And I love them both with I was
00:05:45
I would jump in front of a moving train already for them. Yeah, truly. Like immediately I was like well, I would lay
00:05:51
down my life for you guys now too. Yeah, she literally said that. So here we are.
00:05:55
Now I just love two other things in my house more than anything in the whole world. In the whole [ __ ] world. So
00:06:01
we're very happy over here. It was it was a it was a puppy-shaped hole in my heart that I didn't want to fill right
00:06:08
away but then I think Bubba was like girl, it's time. Girl, do it. She's like girl, treat yourself. Treat
00:06:16
yourself and I said okay. Yay. So I'm very happy. We have some pups. So Syd and Blanche are going to be part of the
00:06:24
crew now. I keep calling Syd city girl. City girl. But it sounds like city girl.
00:06:30
country girl but a city girl. But I'm I'm really like city girl. I love it and my littlest one calls
00:06:36
Blanche Branch. It reminds me of Trolls. I love it. Is that his name is Branch? Yeah, Branch.
00:06:41
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so that's the good news and that's making us really happy and it's given us you know,
00:06:47
animals just give you a little boost. Oh my god, 100%. I was in a state of straight-up depression the few the past
00:06:54
few weeks. Yeah. And then you had them and just give you kisses and they love you. Like I was literally actively
00:07:02
depressed. You know, sometimes people get mad at me when I say I have a manic moment but I
00:07:07
like actually have manic moments. And remember that you don't know everyone's diagnoses just because you hear them
00:07:13
talk every once in a while. talk about my little menties and my little problems doesn't mean I don't have them. Yeah,
00:07:19
like people tend to get mad at Ash for saying that and I'm like yeah, you don't know what she's diagnosed with. You're
00:07:25
like I have literally seen her in a manic moment and boy is it something. So I think just just know that. Just
00:07:30
understand that we don't share everything. Exactly. There's pieces of us that every people don't know and it's
00:07:37
not not real cool to assume that you do know. So just like we're not going to assume we know everything about you guys
00:07:44
because we don't even though we're friends here. Yeah, of course we're all friends. friends here and that's why
00:07:49
we're being real with you. Just a little sit-down. I mean I did just sing Ashlee
00:07:52
Simpson to you. That's true. I wasn't even lip-syncing. But you know what guys? We all have new pups. This is all
00:07:59
our new pups. Syd and Blanche are here to stay. I [ __ ] love them. So get ready, worlds. I know. I and then I got
00:08:05
like both feels cuz I come here and I get my dog feel and then I go home and I get my cat feel and I'm just living
00:08:10
life. Just living. Just as my good girl would say, living. All right, so I think we should jump
00:08:19
right into it. I think it's enough chit-chat. Enough chit-chat for today, babe. Enough. All right. Well, today's
00:08:25
case is very sad. It's a very tragic case. It was requested a ton in our folder though, that's why I ended up
00:08:32
doing it. Yeah. Like you guys know we usually try to stray away from like kid murders. Oh.
00:08:39
Yeah. This is a a teenager. Oh man. And it's a really sad story but I think it's
00:08:44
an important story to tell obviously and again highly requested. So we're going to start out on the afternoon of March
00:08:52
3rd, 1989. Kelly Anne Tinyes was at home. She was babysitting her 8-year-old brother
00:08:57
Richie and the phone rang. And Richie answered and he spoke to the person on the other end of the phone
00:09:03
very briefly and then handed off the phone to his sister saying it was somebody calling for her and they were
00:09:09
named John. Okay. So she had a quick conversation with the caller on the line and then told her brother that she was
00:09:15
heading out to go to a friend's house down the street and that she would be right back.
00:09:19
That was around 3:00 in the afternoon but Kelly never did come back. So let's talk about who Kelly was and
00:09:27
kind of where she came from and her family a little bit. Okay. She was from a pretty typical working-class 1980s
00:09:33
Long Island family. Her father, Richard Tinyes, owned and operated Victoria's Auto Repairs.
00:09:40
It was a small auto restoration business in their hometown of Valley Springs. And
00:09:45
his wife, Victoria, who it must have been named after, she split her time as a medical
00:09:50
assistant and a receptionist in a local doctor's office. They had those two children, 13-year-old
00:09:56
Kelly and 8-year-old Richie Jr. And the whole family lived in a modest Cape Cod-style house located on Horton Road,
00:10:03
and they lived with Richard's elderly parents. Okay. Um Richard's parents had bought
00:10:08
the house back in 1967, but as they were getting older, they needed more care and support of like for
00:10:14
themselves and for the house, which they were able to get from their son and his
00:10:18
wife and the grandchildren. Really like tight-knit family. Yeah. And the community on Horton Road
00:10:24
in 1989, it was also a super tight-knit community. It was perfect for them because pretty much all of their
00:10:31
neighbors were also working class, and everybody really looked out for one another.
00:10:35
I love that. They were super tight-knit, like I said, very actively involved in each other's lives. Sometimes to like an
00:10:42
like a surprising extent. Um a woman named Evelyn Nieves, I believe is how you say the last name, wrote in an
00:10:47
article for the New York Times. It was like a working-class commune. The 19 families who lived on the street knew
00:10:53
one another's in-laws and watched one another's kids. The 27 school-age children acted like cousins. Oh, I love
00:11:00
that. like the perfect kind of spot to raise your kids. going to say that's the dream.
00:11:04
Yeah, you would think. Now, unfortunately for Kelly, she was older than most of the children on
00:11:09
Horton Road. Most of the kids were closer to her brother Richie's age, but still, she would play with the younger
00:11:16
kids. She would set up games to do with them. And she was definitely one of the more
00:11:20
reliable babysitters in the neighborhood. And because her parents both worked, she
00:11:25
really had a lot more responsibility than most kids her age. She cared for her brother. She cared for her
00:11:30
grandparents while her parents were at work. And a lot of times she would take responsibility for Brutus, the family
00:11:36
dog. Brutus. I know, I [ __ ] love that. Brutus. But she took it all on, and she
00:11:41
never complained, not to her parents, not to her friends. She just was there to help. She's just a good kid. Really
00:11:48
was. Never wanted to complain about anything, and she always just seemed to maintain what people described as her
00:11:54
warm, generous, and outgoing disposition. Mhm. And she just like looks that way. She was a little cutie.
00:12:00
Yeah. Now, her family knew her as a {quote} and {unquote} responsible, level-headed daughter who was, like I
00:12:05
said, reliable, honest, hard-working, and also very well organized when it came to school.
00:12:12
Now, even though her responsibilities at home had increased, especially when her
00:12:15
grandparents' health kind of started to decline, she still actually managed to carve out time for herself, obviously,
00:12:22
which she spent ice skating, which was her favorite thing to do, or spending time with like a few close
00:12:27
friends that she had in the neighborhood, including her close friend Sharon Stodolka, who lived a couple
00:12:32
houses away. Okay. Now, She's so cute. Like looking at pictures of her, I'm like, "Stop it."
00:12:38
Such a little '80s girl, you know? really is. She's like the quintessential '80s teen.
00:12:42
Yeah, she's got that perfect '80s like like bang, exactly. It's almost like a poof bang. Oh, yeah. Now, the close-knit
00:12:49
supportive nature of Valley of the Valley Stream community made it a nice place to live, and it also had
00:12:54
relatively low crime rates, which was awesome because obviously New York City was nearby and full of all kinds of
00:13:01
crime. Yeah. But in Valley Stream, there actually hadn't been a murder since 1977.
00:13:07
Wow. And that was when a teenager was killed in a random attack. But since that murder of 16-year-old
00:13:13
Richard Lesser, the residents of Valley Stream had carried on free, mostly, almost entirely of violent crime.
00:13:20
But obviously, that all changed this afternoon in March of 1989. So this day, Friday, March 3rd, 1989,
00:13:28
started out really like any other typical day for the Tinias family. Richard picked Kelly up from school that
00:13:35
afternoon, not out of the ordinary at all. Drove her home. Winter was winding itself down, and Kelly was really hoping
00:13:41
that she could go ice skating with some of her friends, especially because there
00:13:45
weren't going to be that many more opportunities to do it cuz again, spring was coming. Yeah. But her dad had some
00:13:51
errands to run, and he needed Kelly to watch her brother until her mom got home from work later that afternoon.
00:13:58
Now, she didn't know it, but she was actually going to have a bit of a surprise party that afternoon. Her mom
00:14:04
and her best friend, Roberta Goose, had been working together, and they were gathering up a small group of Kelly's
00:14:10
closest friends to take her out for her 14th birthday, Stop. which was just 2 days away. Oh, come on.
00:14:17
Yeah. Like literally. So sad. So when she got home, she grabbed the phone, which you like so
00:14:24
relatable. Like the second you get home, just like picking up that phone and calling whoever you can call. Remember
00:14:29
that? Yes. up that landline? a chunky old landline. Stretching that stretchy cord as far as you could go.
00:14:37
Yep, I loved that. Oh, the best. Now, so she called her friend Jennifer, but Jennifer wasn't
00:14:43
home, and there was no answer. So instead, she called her dad, and she was like, "Please, can I go ice skating?
00:14:48
Like I really just want to go with my friends." And he was like, "Girl, I just told you you got to wait for your mom.
00:14:54
She'll be home in an hour." Direct quote. No, obviously not. So she was disappointed, but she was like, "All
00:14:59
right, like I'm not getting out of this, so I got to do what I got to do. Let me
00:15:02
make some more calls." More calls on the landline. More calls on the landline. So she
00:15:08
called up another friend, and they chatted a few minutes before hanging up. And actually, just a few moments after
00:15:14
she put the phone in the cradle back again, that's when it rang again, and that's when Richie answered the phone to
00:15:20
this John caller. Okay. Now, according to Richie, after identifying himself, the caller asked to speak with Kelly
00:15:27
directly. Now, after speaking for a good couple minutes, Kelly hung up, and about 20
00:15:31
minutes later, she told her brother that she was {quote} going to her friend Nicole's house just down the street and
00:15:37
would be back. Okay. Now, it was like Kelly leaving her brother alone when she was supposed to
00:15:43
be the one watching him was weird. It was really out of character for her. like it would be. She was usually, as we
00:15:49
know, like I just spent the first couple minutes saying this, a very reliable and
00:15:53
responsible girl. She's also 13. So that's why when she didn't come back after 5 minutes, though, Richie actually
00:16:00
ended up leaving the house and going to look for her cuz he's like, "Wait a second, like she wouldn't leave me that
00:16:05
long." And and do did you say how old he was? He was eight. eight, that's what I was. Oh my
00:16:10
goodness. Yeah, so he goes out to look for her, and he went to Kelly's friend Nicole's
00:16:14
house at about 3:15, but Nicole told him that Kelly actually hadn't been there, and that she wasn't expecting her. Oh,
00:16:20
man. So maybe she fibbed about where she was going. have been terrifying for him, though.
00:16:25
Yeah, and it only gets like scarier. Oh. So Richie went along, and as he walked,
00:16:29
he ran into another boy in the neighborhood, Harry Finney, who was playing in his yard.
00:16:34
I feel like you can picture this all so well. Yeah. Absolutely. Like I feel like you can see this
00:16:38
neighborhood in your head. Oh, yeah. So Richie told Harry, "I'm looking for my sister. Like have you
00:16:43
seen her?" Now, as luck would have it, Harry actually did see her just a few minutes earlier
00:16:49
as she was heading into the family or the excuse me, as she was heading into the home of the Gollub family. Gollub,
00:16:56
yeah. Yeah, thank you. We just looked it up. Yeah. I've been saying it one way in my head,
00:17:00
and so I was like, "Oh my god, don't say it that way." And the way that you were saying it was
00:17:04
the way I read it, too. So I hate when you get a pronunciation in your own head, and then you find the real one,
00:17:10
and you're like, "Well, [ __ ] Exactly. My head is going to say the other one." Yep. So Gollub. Gollub.
00:17:14
So the Gollub family, they lived next door to Harry. Okay. So Harry and Richie went to the Gollubs' front door, and
00:17:20
they rang the bell, but nobody answered. So Harry just went back to his front yard, and Richie returned home and
00:17:26
figured, you know, Kelly will be back soon. This is unlike her, but I'm sure she'll be back.
00:17:30
Poor Richie. So when he got back at home, he did call his dad to say Kelly had left him alone and had said that she
00:17:35
was going to see a friend, but had actually gone to the Gollubs' house. Now, he explained that he had knocked on
00:17:41
the Gollubs' front door, but nobody answered. So Richard told his son go back up to that house and {quote} beat
00:17:47
on the door and call out for your sister. Oh, man. So he was already feeling like nervous
00:17:52
about this. Alarm bells were already going off. Mhm. Oh, I'm so stressed out for this family. It's horrific.
00:17:59
So after he hung up, Richie looked up the Gollubs' number in the phone book and tried to call the family several
00:18:04
times, but he never got an answer. So he went I know. And just like picturing him like
00:18:10
pulling out the phone book and being like, "Okay, like I have to figure this out."
00:18:13
Oh. So he started banging out on or so after he looks up and calls and doesn't get any
00:18:20
answer, he goes over to the house and just starts banging on the front door, calling out Kelly's name,
00:18:25
Oh. but not getting any kind of response. But at the same time as he's doing this,
00:18:30
he can hear loud music coming from inside of the house. So he assumed that someone was home and
00:18:36
just couldn't hear him. So since he didn't get any response at the door, he just started pacing on the
00:18:41
sidewalk, My god, this poor child. calling out to his sister, and he was saying that the
00:18:46
dog had gotten loose and he needed help. That wasn't true, but he knew that if Kelly thought that um the dog had gotten
00:18:55
out, then she would come out from wherever she was. Like that exactly, that would get her to move.
00:19:00
Oh. But still getting nothing. This poor baby. I know, both of these poor babies.
00:19:05
Seriously. So after waiting a little while longer, just pacing on the sidewalk, he went back home and waited
00:19:10
for his mom. Oh. So Victor excuse me, Victoria returned home a little after 5:00 p.m., and she was really surprised
00:19:17
to find out that Kelly still hadn't come back home. It was again, very, very unlike Kelly to be any kind of
00:19:24
irresponsible. So it hadn't quite raised alarm bells just yet. The but the fact that Kelly was still missing was
00:19:31
puzzling. Like they were like, "This is weird." Yeah. So Victoria started calling around to Kelly's friends and
00:19:37
figured she'd find Kelly with one of them, but nobody in her circle had seen her since she left school earlier that
00:19:42
afternoon. So Victoria keeps calling whoever she could think of, and Richard joins in,
00:19:47
too, and he gets back, but they're getting like radio silence or just like no helpful tips at all.
00:19:53
Oh, man. No one had seen Kelly. Now it got to the point where Victoria is getting more and more concerned. So
00:19:59
she starts going door to door being like, "Is Kelly here? Have you seen Kelly? Like had anybody seen her?"
00:20:06
So she gets to Kelly's friend Sharon Stahls' house and Sharon told Victoria that she had seen Kelly earlier earlier
00:20:13
that day. And just like Harry had told Richie, Kelly was going into the Gallups' house
00:20:18
down the street. I'm so stressed out right now. I know. So after several attempts to reach anybody at the Gallup
00:20:25
house by phone or in person, Richard finally got through to the mother, Elizabeth Gallup, a little after 6:00
00:20:31
p.m. But she said that she had been out afternoon and as far as she knew, Kelly hadn't been in their house at all that
00:20:37
day. Oh god. So the dad, Richard, is really frustrated frustrated seeing as all roads seem to go back to the
00:20:44
Gallups' house, but now they're saying they haven't seen Kelly. it's like no. Where the hell is she?
00:20:48
Oh my god, he must have wanted to barge into that house. Oh my god, I can't even imagine.
00:20:54
it for him. it's like on your street. Like you're looking at that house, it's your
00:20:58
neighbor. Exactly. You want to just like break down the door. Yeah. So he was frustrated being like like
00:21:05
what the hell? Yeah. And seeing as all roads were leading back to that house, he asked if he could
00:21:10
speak with John Jay. John Jay. Uh-oh, John. 14-year-old son. God, John's. What is going on?
00:21:19
I know. But John Jay, he said he hadn't seen Kelly in a few days actually. Okay.
00:21:25
Richard didn't press the press the boy any further, but he did sense a nervous tone in John's in John Jay's voice that
00:21:32
suggested he was not being entirely truthful. Oh, good. So the rest of that evening was spent searching for Kelly,
00:21:38
going from one friend to another, just desperately hoping that their daughter was hiding out somewhere, nervous that
00:21:44
she was going to be in trouble for walking out on responsibilities, like just holding on to any hope they
00:21:50
possibly could. Now let's talk a little bit about the Gallup family. Most of the families on Horton Road were
00:21:57
like actively involved in each other's lives and community events and they all kind of engaged with each other.
00:22:03
But the Gallups were among a small group of neighbors who even though like they were polite enough, they preferred to
00:22:09
keep to themselves. Okay. The father, John Gallup Sr., he ran Getty gas station in town and he
00:22:16
didn't really like to hang out with the neighbors. He didn't like to go to block
00:22:19
parties, barbecues. He just kind of kept to himself and worked on his car or his
00:22:23
boat. Okay. You know? Yeah. Now his wife, Elizabeth, she was a little bit more active in the community and more
00:22:30
familiar with the neighbors, but she liked hanging out with her own friends and acquaintances at church or at the
00:22:36
Keystone Yacht Club. That was her kind of deal. That was her jam. Yeah. So the family
00:22:40
had moved to Horton Road a little over 20 years earlier actually and that was all there was to it. Okay. Now the
00:22:47
Gallups had three children. Adele was their oldest and she had gone off to college, married and started a family
00:22:53
with her husband in Manhattan. So she's not really a player in this at all. Then there was 21-year-old Robert and
00:22:59
14-year-old John Jay. They both lived at home still with their parents. In 1989,
00:23:05
Robert was an unemployed bodybuilder. He had graduated high school, but didn't want to go to college and
00:23:11
was just kind of living at home. Okay. Yeah. He spent his time at the Maximum Health and Fitness Center where he would
00:23:18
quote often put in up up to 3 hours a day at the gym. Cool. Like that's a little excessive,
00:23:25
bro. Yeah. He was 5'3", so he was very focused on looking as big as he possibly could. Mhm.
00:23:31
And aside from the gym, he would just be at home in the family's basement or working on his tan at the nearby Tan
00:23:39
Your Booty. This all sounds incredibly healthy. I don't I don't see anything wrong with
00:23:44
it. Mhm. I love that that place is called Tan Your Booty. Tan Your Booty. Like imagine opening a business called
00:23:50
Tan Your Booty. just like tan your butt. Tan your butt. Tan your ass. They should have named it
00:23:56
that and just stopped at Tan Your Booty. Right. Now like his brother, 14-year-old
00:24:00
John Jay was rather unremarkable to be honest. Huh. He was a freshman at in high
00:24:07
school, but most of the time he skipped class to smoke weed with his friends. Cool. Yeah, like relatable. But
00:24:13
Relatable. In general, he was known to the neighbors as a troublemaker and he definitely was not the sort of person
00:24:20
that anybody expected Kelly to be hanging out with. It was weird that she was even at the Gallups' house in the
00:24:24
first place. Mhm. But for some reason or another, Robert, the older brother, he was under
00:24:30
the impression that Kelly and John Jay were dating actually. Oh. He later told police, "I saw them on the block. I
00:24:36
could tell. I could see it in their eyes." Woah. I was like Damn. That's impressive.
00:24:43
Like I got to know about that. see it in their eyes. Like from down the block. Okay, okay. Yeah. But no one in Kelly's
00:24:49
family or any any part of her friend group had any idea or knowledge that she was dating John Jay. Mhm. And as far as
00:24:57
anybody really knew, they barely even knew each other. That's strange. Weird, right?
00:25:02
that's very weird. I don't know if maybe it was like a thing where they came from
00:25:07
different friend groups and maybe they did have crushes on each other. Yeah, maybe that that absolutely could
00:25:11
have happened. I don't know enough to say one way or the other. That's kind of like an
00:25:15
inference that I made based off of everything I read, but cuz I don't I do I just don't know why
00:25:21
Kelly ended up in the house that day. Yeah. And it seems like John Jay is the one
00:25:25
that called cuz the caller was John. John. Yeah. Unless Robert called and said he was
00:25:29
John, that's entirely possible. could have happened. But with John Jay's nervousness and like, "So you invited
00:25:35
her over and now you know she's missing. Like what did you see? What didn't you see?"
00:25:40
are you nervous because of that? Because you were the one who did the inviting or
00:25:45
are you nervous because you know that somebody used your name and it it's your brother. Exactly. Yeah.
00:25:52
Exactly. Now as far as the neighbors knew, the Galu sorry, the Gallups. That's how I
00:25:57
was reading it in See, I was going to say that's how you were reading it in your head. I feel
00:26:00
that. Uh the Gallups as far as anybody knew, they kept a night nice and neat tidy home. Um but they only ever saw the
00:26:09
home from the outside. Oh. When the police did eventually make their way inside of this house, they found it
00:26:15
cluttered cluttered with debris that officers and other witnesses would repeatedly describe as clutter, clothes,
00:26:23
knickknack knickknacks, and trash filling every room of the house. Ew. Like it was essentially like a hoarder
00:26:30
house, but like there was like trash and just me out so much. And it well and it's really sad because
00:26:36
obviously like that's a mental illness. Like that's where that all stems from, but like the kids having to live in that
00:26:42
the thing. It's like there's kids and then like thinking about I'm thinking about Kelly.
00:26:47
Kelly in there. Mhm. And that's like a lot of oh, it's just like adds to the stress of
00:26:52
everything. it was a far cry from her home. Where she had grown up. Right. So Richard and Victoria, they spent most of
00:26:59
that Friday evening like I said making calls, walking around the neighborhood, looking for Kelly, just panicking more
00:27:05
and more as every hour passed. The next morning, the search for Kelly continued.
00:27:10
Richard revisited all the places he previously looked for his daughter including the Galu home.
00:27:16
And wait, the Gallups' home. Christ, sorry. It's so hard. No, I totally I'm I'm not
00:27:21
faulting you at all. It's when you read it in your head. I've done that so many times. It drives you
00:27:25
nuts. The Gallups' house. And when Elizabeth Gallup invited the family into the foyer of the home,
00:27:32
Richard and Victoria were actually shocked by the mess that just stretched from one room to the next.
00:27:38
Damn. Richard explained again that several people had seen his daughter go into their home the previous afternoon
00:27:44
and no one had seen her leave. So Elizabeth I guy. Yeah. So Elizabeth was like, "I'm sorry.
00:27:50
Like I was running errands. I really did not see Kelly here, but let me go wake up John." Huh. So he she wakes up John
00:27:57
and he said, "Nope, I haven't seen her in a few days." So they were completely out of options at this point and Richard
00:28:03
and Victoria had to return home and call the police at this point to report Kelly
00:28:07
missing. Ugh, break my heart. Awful. A call you never ever ever ever can't even fathom it. No.
00:28:14
So Thomas McVetey of the Juvenile Aid Bureau of the Nassau County Police Department
00:28:20
Woah. the first one to see the case come in and he returned uh Richard and Victoria's call.
00:28:27
Now after doing the usual due diligence in cases of missing children, calling friends, checking the usual hangouts,
00:28:33
yada yada yada, he went to Kelly's house on Horton Road. And he sat down with Richard and Vicky and went through all
00:28:40
the usual questions. Again explaining, you know, sometimes kids take off for a while, but they usually return.
00:28:46
The classic. nine. The classic. And Victoria was like, "No." She literally said, "Not
00:28:52
Kelly. Kelly doesn't do this." Yeah, parents a lot of parents do know their kid.
00:28:58
Imagine that. Yeah. Now Richard and Victoria explained that several neighbors again had seen
00:29:03
their daughter go into the Gallups' house around 3:15 the previous day, but nobody in the Gallup house says they saw
00:29:10
her. So what the [ __ ] How how What the [ __ ] Yeah. Now they also explained that as
00:29:16
far as they knew, their daughter had no relationship with anybody in that house and as far as they knew again, no reason
00:29:23
to go in there in the first place. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me. No. So McVetey and his partner left
00:29:28
their house and started in the direction of the Gallups' home. But as they came up the walkway, they
00:29:34
actually were stopped by Elizabeth Gallup and John Jay who were just leaving Sharon Stahls' house. Mhm. Now
00:29:41
inside like so they eventually made their way inside to their house. Yeah. The detective sat down with Elizabeth
00:29:47
and her younger son and started to explain why they were there. Now, John J told the detectives that he did know
00:29:53
Kelly, but again, couldn't see her the previous day and couldn't think of a reason why she would come to their
00:29:59
house. Okay. Weird. So, McVey asked if anybody else was in the house that they could speak with at
00:30:05
that point and John J disappeared for a moment and then came back with his brother Robert who was accompanied by
00:30:11
like a random friend. Now, Robert told the detectives he knew who Kelly was but hadn't seen her in
00:30:17
quite some time. He said he'd been home all day the previous day and then he just played video games with his brother
00:30:23
and two of his brother's friends that afternoon. And then he said after they were finished playing video
00:30:28
games John J and his two friends left to play basketball and Robert stayed back.
00:30:34
Now, McVey the detective he was like, I don't know like something about this kid
00:30:39
he seems nervous. And he and he noticed that every time Robert would answer a question about the
00:30:45
previous afternoon, he would subtly look at his brother almost like he was trying
00:30:50
to confirm what he was saying. So, the detective just came right out and said, "Why do you keep looking at
00:30:56
your brother?" He goes, "Why not just answer the question straight without help?"
00:31:03
they finally separated the two of them and after doing that the detectives left the house and went across the street to
00:31:09
talk to Sharon Stonall. Now, Sharon said, "Yep, I saw Kelly the previous day. I saw her go into that
00:31:15
house." But this time they learned that Harry Finney who had also seen Kelly go into the house told Sharon it was John J
00:31:23
who opened the door and invited the girl inside. So, John was lying. He had seen
00:31:28
her. I didn't I honestly was thinking like all right, maybe maybe he hadn't. I was
00:31:33
burying the lead. You were cuz I was really thinking he was maybe just nervous because he knew what was going
00:31:39
on but hadn't seen her. He saw her. I don't know if he saw everything but he saw her.
00:31:46
It's hard. I'm going to ask you what you think at the end. This is just terrible.
00:31:50
Yeah, terrific. So, up to that point McVey had no reason to believe that anybody was lying to him
00:31:57
but this new information suggested that no one in the Gallup house was being truthful at all.
00:32:02
So, he called for backup. He explained the situation to his supervisor and he said he he wanted to search the Gallup
00:32:08
home and he said, "I believe that's where the investigation is." So, under normal circumstances the
00:32:14
search would have required a warrant which as we definitely know it would have taken some time to procure
00:32:20
but wanting to be thankfully as helpful as she could Elizabeth actually consented to a search. Wow. Yeah, so so
00:32:28
she really had I don't think so. Absolutely no idea. That's what it sounds like.
00:32:32
I don't think she did at all. So, she invited the the detectives back into the home and she signed the form
00:32:38
boom consent. So, now they had to call in backup to like conduct this whole search. So, backup had arrived. McVey
00:32:45
John Gallup senior and a uniformed officer were making their way through the house and they started making their
00:32:51
way into the basement. And McVey was absolutely shocked at the amount of garbage and clutter all over
00:32:57
the place especially in the basement. He would later tell the jury that the basement was so cluttered it quote
00:33:02
unquote hampered their investigation. And once they were in the basement McVey spotted a small door in the basement
00:33:11
that was blocked by a large steamer trunk which prompted him to ask like what the [ __ ] that was about.
00:33:16
Now, John like the father told the officers that the trunk was just for storage and they were like, "Okay, like
00:33:21
can we move it?" And he was like, "Yeah, sure." So, they move it and once they did McVey
00:33:27
kind of shined his flashlight into the darkness and the light showed that there was a
00:33:32
large green sleeping bag that was zippered and propped really awkwardly against the
00:33:38
wall almost like there was something inside. They approached the bag and they noticed
00:33:43
that it had actually come unzipped near the bottom and partially poking out of it was a
00:33:48
pale and bloody human leg. Yes. Now, McVey immediately secured the scene and called in homicide detectives. The
00:33:58
news of the search had already made its way around the neighborhood and a ton of
00:34:02
the neighbors on Horton Road had come out to their yards and their driveways to see what was going on
00:34:07
including Richard and Victoria Tinney. So, not wanting the news to reach them before he could McVey literally made a
00:34:16
bee-line to this couple so he could tell them himself what had happened. And Victoria just started screaming.
00:34:26
I have like chills all over my body right now. I can't I can't imagine and I I don't even want to like
00:34:34
I just want to give like her parents the biggest hug because they look like they
00:34:38
look like New Englanders like your friend's parents. You know? And like who care
00:34:49
and like you would go over their house and like talk to them while you're hanging out with your friend, you know,
00:34:53
like that kills me. You're just like everyday people and something absolutely [ __ ]
00:35:00
horrible happened. No, Siri are you kidding me right now? Oh, she comes at the worst times. So
00:35:05
[ __ ] rude Siri. Back to the seriousness. That was till I think that was like some something was
00:35:12
like hey, break the tension real quick. Honestly. It's getting deep. Here we are. We're back.
00:35:18
So, detective Lane arrived at the Gallup house around noon that same day and spoke to Elizabeth and John senior while
00:35:24
they waited for the medical examiner to arrive. Now, followed by an interview with John
00:35:29
junior heat and sorry that was followed by an interview with John junior and he told
00:35:34
detective Lane that he got home from school the previous day at the usual time and he had two friends with him
00:35:40
Mick Donnell. Pause pause for lols. Literally Mick Donnell. Who did that? Why you do? Why you do
00:35:50
that? And Chris Earl. Okay, that's fine. So, he said they played Nintendo for a while sign of the
00:35:56
times. And then they hung out with older brother Robert for a bit until he went back up to his bedroom and when he went
00:36:04
back upstairs they said they went and played basketball not long after. According to John J he returned home a
00:36:10
little bit after 5:00 that night. So, the crime scene search unit arrived at the house a little after 1:00 p.m.
00:36:18
and they began what would be an exhausting documentation and search of the basement.
00:36:23
The fact that there was so much garbage and clutter spread everywhere just made it way more difficult.
00:36:28
So, by the time the medical examiner Dr. Lone Thanning arrived an hour later detectives had pulled the sleeping bag
00:36:35
out from the closet and carefully laid it out on the basement floor. And when they moved the sleeping bag
00:36:40
Lane and his partner discovered a pile of lace curtains that were soaked in blood
00:36:46
and also a large World War I era bayonet lying in a pool of blood next to the curtains.
00:36:55
A bayonet? Yes. And here's the thing this medical examiner is a suburban medical examiner
00:37:03
and I just told you there's been like one murder in the past 10 years. Doctor yeah, Dr. Thanning was used to just like
00:37:11
natural cause deaths, you know? And was shocked by what she discovered upon opening the sleeping bag. This is
00:37:18
absolutely brutal just so you know like if you do need to skip please do. One of the detectives on the case would
00:37:26
later say that Kelly's remains were scarcely recognizable as human. Whatever happened to her
00:37:32
and the person that did this like I'm like you're not even a human. You're an animal.
00:37:38
An animal. Her face had been beaten and was insanely bruised by the time she was
00:37:43
discovered. Her throat had been cut so severely that the wound extended quote unquote nearly to her backbone. of her
00:37:50
hair had been ripped from her scalp in what appeared to be handfuls. What the [ __ ]
00:38:00
And then detectives also discovered in the bag a bra that had been knotted like it had been used as a choking device.
00:38:07
She's 13 years old. 13 years old. Now, at a quick glance her body suffered the same brutality as her face if not
00:38:17
more. Her torso she had to tell was just covered in bruises, slashes, two human bite marks.
00:38:25
And her this is super graphic and absolutely [ __ ] awful. Her killer had slit her from sternum to groin
00:38:34
exposing her internal organs. Like horrific. That medical examiner I I have to wonder if that was like the
00:38:47
last case they ever did. I would have to have retired after that. You couldn't prepare for that in a city
00:38:54
setting. No. Never mind in like a suburbia. Just like in this quiet little street where like everybody it's it
00:39:04
really was a quiet little street everybody gets along like and she just got a call like come hey come over.
00:39:10
How many times did you get a call when you were younger to go to your neighbor's house?
00:39:15
Now, going back to the scene a lot of the cuts made to Kelly's torso were consistent with a blade that was the
00:39:22
size and shape of the bayonet. But also at the same time many of them were not consistent with the bayonet
00:39:30
which led detectives to believe that there was a second or possibly even third weapon missing from the scene.
00:39:36
Detective Lane had seen the body when they pulled it from beneath the basement stairs and he theorized that whoever had
00:39:41
done this to Kelly had to be a very large, very powerful person. And very vicious, awful, savage person.
00:39:49
Mhm. Now, he'd seen John Jay, who was average height and weight build for a 14-year-old boy, and he assumed his two
00:39:56
friends were, you know, most likely of a similar build. So, it seemed very unlikely that any of those three were
00:40:02
responsible. Yeah. Possible, but not likely. So, based on all the testimony collected
00:40:08
that day, the only people in the house that previous afternoon were John Jay, those two friends, and 21-year-old
00:40:16
bodybuilder, Robert. Mhm. Bodybuilder. Mhm. So, Detective Jack Sharkey was assigned
00:40:25
the task of interviewing McDonell and Chris Earl, John Jay's two friends, who had been at the house that afternoon.
00:40:32
They confirmed that they had all been there, and just like John Jay said, they played video games before they left to
00:40:37
go play basketball. And they also suggested it was pretty likely that it was John who called Kelly
00:40:43
and invited her over to the house. Wow. Officers had learned that the boy had, {quote} been {unquote}, been sweet
00:40:50
on Kelly for years. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Um and he was the only one in the house that really knew her that day. My god.
00:40:59
Now, after their interview, both boys actually consented to a polygraph test, and they both passed, {quote} {unquote},
00:41:05
with flying colors. Wow. So, because they didn't really match like who they thought could have like
00:41:10
overpowered Kelly and paired paired that hand-in-hand with the passing of the lie
00:41:16
detector test, it rules them out as a suspect. makes sense. Since Donald and Earl were
00:41:20
now crossed off the list of suspects, the only two remaining possibilities were John and Robert. But again, since
00:41:26
he seemed to lack the physical strength they thought would have been necessary, and since his friends had confirmed that
00:41:32
John Jay had been with them that afternoon, Detective Lane decided to focus his attention on the older
00:41:37
brother, Robert. Now, according to Robert, he had woken up around 10:00 a.m. cuz he's a real
00:41:42
winner. Yeah. On the morning of the fifth. He's really killing it. He's really killing the game.
00:41:47
And he said he went to a convenience store to purchase a bodybuilding magazine, Cool.
00:41:52
he is very fixated on his one hobby in life. He's so cool. Yeah, like wicked cool.
00:41:57
And then after he got his magazine, he came right back home, he said. I doubt it. I Who even knows? So, that
00:42:03
afternoon, he spent time with his brother, his brother's friends, and he said after the younger boys left to play
00:42:08
basketball, he went back up to his room. He drank a couple of beers and smoked some weed.
00:42:14
And he said that he never seen he had never seen or spoken to Kelly that afternoon. And in fact, he really only
00:42:20
knew her well enough anyways to say hi. Mhm. Like, weird. Why was she in your house
00:42:25
then? I totally believe you. But he did say that Kelly had been close with his younger brother, John, and that she,
00:42:32
{quote}, sometimes called the the Gallop home twice a day to speak to John Jay. Okay.
00:42:36
So, I do wonder if there was like a little bit of like flirtation going on between
00:42:41
them. there. John Jay and Kelly. Yeah. I don't think John Jay had anything to do with this, to be honest,
00:42:47
in my personal opinion. I don't know, but I don't think so. Okay. So, when police showed Robert the
00:42:52
bayonet used in the attack on Kelly, he said he never owned it and I had actually never seen it before. And as
00:42:59
far as he knew, nobody in the house did either. Oh, a bayonet just showed up in your house one day?
00:43:05
A World War I bayonet, just like essentially an antique. You just plop, it fell in your house?
00:43:13
You know, I can't believe that has happened to somebody else. That happened to you, too, huh?
00:43:16
Yeah, it just showed up in my house. Like, who do you think you're fooling, Robert?
00:43:20
really looking at investigators and being like, yeah, never seen it. It doesn't belong to
00:43:25
anybody in this house. It's It just lives here. Yeah, it's just Yeah, it it pays rent. I don't know.
00:43:31
It doesn't belong to us. What? What? What, dude? bayonet. It's a World War I era bayonet.
00:43:40
That is a relic of years past, and you are telling me that you don't know how it ended up in your house.
00:43:44
Lies. Liar. So, weirdly, he consented to a polygraph examination. He was like, yeah, yeah,
00:43:51
I'll take that. Arrogance. He thought he could beat it. He sure did. He had full-on plans to do
00:43:56
that, because they did go on with the test, but it had to be called off partway through when the examiner
00:44:01
noticed that Robert was trying to mess with the results by holding his breath at various points.
00:44:08
You don't think the examiner is not going to see you holding your breath? Their entire job is to see
00:44:17
every single little thing that sets your body off to make it that you're lying. And you think that holding your breath
00:44:24
is going to somehow get past them? It's an examiner. They examine you. They just watch your ass.
00:44:33
I'm glad you're dumb, but like, [ __ ] So, while detectives interviewed the rest of the neighbors on Horton Road,
00:44:38
the crime scene technicians continued this absolutely crazy job of just task. Daunting task of because this scene is
00:44:46
brutal anyways, and then the added chaos of the of the crime scene. Oh. Now, while they were
00:44:51
searching, there were a few significant items found in the basement. There were two briefcases that contained Kelly's
00:44:57
clothes that she was wearing the day before. Random briefcases. weird. And a large white T-shirt that
00:45:04
appeared to have four semen stains on the front of it. Disgusting. I'll tell you now, I
00:45:10
um they don't think she was sexually assaulted. Well, that's good. Uh like pr- uh pre- pre-mortem? Like
00:45:17
peri- peri-mortem. Um now, each case of the each of the briefcases had some blood smeared on the
00:45:24
outside and on the inside, but it was going to take some time to determine whether that had come from Kelly or her
00:45:29
killer. So, they were they had their work laid out. Damn. Now, the autopsy was performed the
00:45:34
following day. And actually, there was a few people in attendance. There was Detective Richard Wells, the medical
00:45:40
examiner Dr. Fanning, a serologist named Dr. Arlene Collen, and then the chief medical examiner Dr. Leslie Lukash. Mhm.
00:45:49
Now, thankfully, like I was just saying, tests actually found no evidence of semen on the surface of Kelly's body or
00:45:55
internally. Um and there was no other signs of sexual assault. Okay, so pre-mortem she
00:46:01
was or peri-mortem, either one, she was not She was not. Okay. Now, unfortunately though, the
00:46:07
medical examiner wasn't able to find any fingerprints present on the body. Which
00:46:12
is I'm like, did you wash her down? How did that work? But I don't Maybe it was because it was
00:46:18
so brutal. Yeah. Um but the chief medical examiner Dr. Lukash determined the cause of death
00:46:23
was blunt force trauma to the skull. But after identifying more than 200, and this is in {quotes}, 200 discrete blows
00:46:31
to her head, the medical examiner medical examiner had to stop counting. 200? I don't even
00:46:42
I don't I literally my br- like my brain isn't computing that. I don't even know
00:46:47
how that's possible. The randomness of this act is just like, I don't know if maybe that's why it's
00:46:52
one of the most requested cases. It's like it like how did this happen? Like 200
00:47:00
had to stop counting at 200. blows to her head. Yeah. Like, I don't even know how you do that.
00:47:09
What kind of [ __ ] animal do you have to be? And like exactly. Like, that is animalistic behavior.
00:47:17
That is I that's not even of this world. Like, I can't even That's not comprehend.
00:47:24
That's not even like demonic. That's like I'm like, what the even think of a creature that I know of
00:47:30
that could do that to another person or to another creature. long. Yeah. Think about hitting something 200 times.
00:47:38
How long that takes. can't imagine. Just think about like taking your hand and hitting a table 200
00:47:44
times. No. How long that would take and how much energy that would take eventually?
00:47:48
Hours. Hours. Like, that is I'm I'm speechless. I don't even know what to say about that. That's unbelievable.
00:47:55
It's absolutely crazy. girl. I know. And her poor Oh, her family. I just Oh. It's awful. I
00:48:03
actually like have anxiety right now. It's like a lot. really killing me. So, based on the
00:48:07
evidence collected at the scene, Lukash believed that the blunt force trauma was
00:48:11
consistent with the antique rifle found at the scene, but said that the extent of the damage was too great to ever be
00:48:17
positive. Wow. I think so, but I mean, you get to 200 blows, you can't fit an instrument
00:48:23
there. Like, you don't know what that was after a certain point. There's cuz you're not even seeing
00:48:27
distinct like wounds. Exactly. Like, oh my god. Now, the slicing wound to the neck to the neck,
00:48:34
excuse me, was a match for the bayonet, but there also appeared to be an indenta- and this is again, brutal. An
00:48:40
indentation near the wound that until then couldn't be accounted for. Like, they were trying to figure out what that
00:48:45
was. So, doctor the doctor spent more time examining the blade, and then realized that the circular indentation
00:48:52
was caused by the knob on the handle of the knife. Which meant that the killer had to,
00:48:58
{quote} {unquote}, lay the blade across Kelly's throat and then stand the full weight of his body on the knife,
00:49:04
bouncing up and down. I You have to. I have never heard anything like this. Never in my entire life, and you have to
00:49:16
hope and you like I have to like tell myself that she was gone. She had to have been.
00:49:21
With the blows to the head, she had to have been. It had to which does not fix any of this, but it my god, I can't.
00:49:30
Who does We have covered some of the worst of the worst of the worst and I cannot
00:49:38
compare this killer to anyone I have ever read about. This is just like like my arms this entire time are just
00:49:45
covered. Like this is stuff that if you saw it in a horror movie you'd be like who comes
00:49:49
up with that? I don't like want to watch anything by this person ever again. Like no one's like that. No. Oh my god.
00:49:57
No. Oh poor Kelly Ann. Oh and her family to know that your baby went through this.
00:50:04
Honestly like my I know. I just want to hug her so I'm like don't even don't even think I said that.
00:50:12
So when the examination was complete Dr. Lukash concluded that Kelly's murder had
00:50:17
to have been committed by somebody in a frenzy. Yeah to say the least and could only have been done by a quote unquote
00:50:25
incredibly fit and powerful man. So given the amount of evidence collected at the scene and the story
00:50:33
being told by Kelly's body detective Lane and Wells kept their attention focused on the most obvious suspect
00:50:39
Robert Glueck right? No Gollub damn it. Gollub. He was brought into the station at this
00:50:45
point for question even before that. He was brought into the station for questioning actually on
00:50:49
the afternoon that the body was discovered. This all happened very quickly. So John and Elizabeth had been
00:50:54
cooperating with police up to this point but now a lawyer for the family had instructed the two brothers to refrain
00:51:04
from answering any questions beyond the statements they'd already given to the police.
00:51:09
So days passed without an arrest and the public was starting to grow anxious that
00:51:13
there might literally never be another resolution and Kelly's parents Richard and Victoria must have been losing their
00:51:21
god damn minds. Because you know what happened. She went into that house. She was found there. So
00:51:27
why hasn't somebody been arrested yet? I would have been like oh my god I'd be losing my [ __ ] mind.
00:51:34
No in the meantime forensic tests were being conducted and the results I mean remember this is the 80s. The results
00:51:40
were very slow to return. But when they did come they seemed to confirm that Robert was involved in the
00:51:47
killing but there were complications. For one thing there was a handprint discovered near the body that did belong
00:51:55
to Robert but it was discovered in his home which made it a lot less significant.
00:52:01
And then the blood smears on the cases where Kelly's clothes had been found were also determined to be Robert's
00:52:07
blood but given that again it was his home there was no way for analysts to determine whether it was left there the
00:52:15
day of the killing or a day or two before. Like yeah. I don't know who would think that that got left there a
00:52:21
day or two before but but sure. To bring it to court you you got to go beyond a reasonable doubt. Now when Robert was
00:52:28
brought in for questioning on the day of the murder he actually had several small
00:52:32
cuts on his right hand. But those cuts they said showed no signs of having bled recently
00:52:39
which is weird but I'm like I mean how do you really determine that? Like if he has cuts on his hand he has cuts on his
00:52:44
hand. Yeah he does. Right? Like how can you tell if they bled recently? They're red. I mean you could really the only
00:52:51
thing I can think of is like what stage of healing they're in. That's really all I could
00:52:58
say about that I guess. I don't really know. Because I'm like they didn't like were they open cuts? Like if they're
00:53:03
open cuts then over cuts cuz then you could be like they were healing. They're they're in the process of
00:53:09
healing. But the way they put it as no signs of having recently bled. I'm like that's a weird standard. It's like he
00:53:15
would have washed that. Right exactly. So essentially while he may have looked very guilty a good lawyer could have
00:53:21
explained a bulk of the physical evidence as to being no different than skin cells fingerprints and trace fluids
00:53:27
that everybody leaves around their house every day which is really gross that you
00:53:31
like think about that. But on March 24th nearly 3 weeks after Kelly's body had been discovered in the
00:53:38
basement investigators did finally feel like they had enough evidence to make an
00:53:42
arrest and Robert was arrested. Wow. Now it was a step in the right direction but
00:53:48
still people in the community were pissed off. Like they were very frustrated. Kelly's uncle Robert told
00:53:53
the press we feel only a fraction of relief about the arrest. There are so many unanswered questions that are hurt
00:53:59
that are hurting right now. Four people in the house and no one heard anything. That's what's so shocking to me. I'm
00:54:05
like what the [ __ ] is going on in that house? No one heard anything? Like is the basement soundproof?
00:54:12
But then you think about the loud music and I'm like is that why nobody heard anything
00:54:18
because it was so loud that Richie could hear it outside. I'm that adds such a different layer to
00:54:24
this. It's like a horror film. This is like so bad. So those unanswered questions and
00:54:30
frustrations grow or grew excuse me exponentially in the time between the arrest and the trial.
00:54:37
While Robert spent his days in prison he was like lifting weights on the yard or
00:54:41
preparing in his cell for trial a lot was going on back home. Reporters neighbors strangers were harassing John
00:54:49
and Elizabeth Gollub nonstop. Their home was being referred to as a murder house
00:54:53
because that's what it was and the harassment had actually become so intense that they had to send John J
00:54:59
off to a private boarding school which if he had nothing to do with this that that happened.
00:55:07
It's just so weird. And then Kelly's family claimed that the at the same time that the Gollubs were trying to
00:55:13
intimidate them and then the Gollubs claimed that they were being prevented from freely coming and going to their
00:55:19
home and Elizabeth claimed that actually she was being sexually harassed around town at this point. So it is a whole
00:55:26
full blown mess. It is like the neighbors that hate each other. The the you know it's
00:55:34
the Hatfields and McCoys. Yeah that's literally I loved that little like hand motion you were doing. I knew it would
00:55:40
get you. Flowy hands and I was like got it. The the Hatfields and the McCoys. Yeah.
00:55:48
That's exactly what this was. And eventually the tension had become so disruptive like fights had broken out
00:55:54
and everything that a police officer had to be regularly parked on Horton Road to
00:55:58
intervene if necessary. It got that bad which is sad and you can understand why it got that bad.
00:56:05
Now while all of that was going on in the neighborhood Robert's defense lawyer John Lewis he was hard at work trying to
00:56:11
get a ton of critical evidence excluded from trial. Yeah. Prior to trial a Frye hearing was
00:56:18
held to determine whether the DNA evidence collected at the scene mostly from the outside of the briefcases and
00:56:24
the palm print on the wall they wanted to see it in this trial if it would be allowed at the murder trial.
00:56:30
Now for those that don't know because I didn't know a Frye hearing according to Cornell Law School quote determines the
00:56:37
admissibility of an expert scientific testimony and other types of evidence. So back then you weren't seeing a lot of
00:56:44
cases where DNA was being In fact Kelly's was actually one of the first cases in America where DNA was used.
00:56:53
Yeah. Now so they had to have that hearing to see like what was going to be admissible
00:56:58
and what wasn't. Okay. So John Lewis argued that DNA science was still in its infancy and it was unreliable. Oh. DNA
00:57:08
evidence. But the prosecution presented several experts who testified that DNA fingerprinting is a reliable
00:57:17
scientific theory that is generally accepted in the scientific community and that the six step procedure used to
00:57:24
extract and analyze DNA samples is also generally accepted in the scientific community.
00:57:30
They're like so there. They're it feels all right. So there were more pretrial hearings
00:57:38
that took place in mid-August and the tensions were insanely high. There was a lot of fighting going on between the
00:57:43
families. There were fights within the courtroom. I would be throwing hands. People had to be escorted out and then
00:57:52
more problems were to come in October when the defense attorney John Lewis was thrown off the case.
00:57:59
So he actually got into an argument with the judge that was presiding over the case judge Marvin Goodman and the
00:58:06
defense attorney Lewis told the judge that he wasn't prepared to go to trial that month and he wanted to push out to
00:58:12
January to get to have more time to prepare. Who gives a [ __ ] about the families that
00:58:18
have to sit here and deal with this [ __ ] Exactly. Let's let's push it out because
00:58:23
I'm not ready. I'm not ready. Sorry. It's like you've had plenty of time. Like you if you don't have a good case
00:58:28
it's because he did it. The end. The end. Also so says I. So says I. I would tap my own gavel.
00:58:35
But the judge denied that request basically saying everything that we did and saying he hadn't provided a legal
00:58:40
reason for it. So like no. Just cuz you're not prepared isn't my fault. Exactly. That's probably exactly what he
00:58:46
said. But Lewis lost it. He was pissed about that and he said he wasn't going to be forced to go to trial and that
00:58:53
Goodman could hold him in contempt or throw him in jail. And Goodman was like I'm not going to do
00:58:58
either of those things. You're just not going to work on this case. You're you're done. Yeah. And he was
00:59:05
you're done and he was replaced with Salvatore Marinello. Hopefully I said that right. So Robert's
00:59:12
trial for the second degree murder of Kelly Ann began on February 15th 1990. Yeah. So and it took place in
00:59:22
I don't know if I'm going to look this up. Manola New York? Yeah. Totally. So in opening statements the prosecutor
00:59:28
Daniel Cotter laid out the extent of the evidence including the mass of DNA evidence that linked Robert to the
00:59:35
murder. My god. He also detailed the extent of Kelly's injuries, and he paid particular
00:59:40
attention to the mutilation of the genitals and the buttocks because [ __ ] up. she had been, like I said,
00:59:48
completely Oh, like eviscerated. eviscerated. Yeah. And one of the bite marks was
00:59:54
actually to her backside, like on her bum. god, you [ __ ] animal. And happened postmortem. Holy [ __ ]
01:00:02
Like not even an animal. An animal wouldn't even do this. I don't even know what to compare this
01:00:07
[ __ ] to. And that's the thing, it's like not even an animal, not even a demon.
01:00:11
Doesn't exist. know what to call you. An entity unto itself, truly. An entity unto itself. Seriously. So, Cotter told
01:00:20
the jury, "Because of all this, it is fair to assume that this is a sexual assault by a male." Oh. Oh.
01:00:26
Then it was the defense's turn. Salvatore told the jury, "The prosecution expects you to make
01:00:31
judgments through inferences." And basically told the jury that the evidence was highly scientific, very
01:00:37
confusing, and they couldn't trust it. I'm obsessed with the fact that they were like, Uh, DNA?
01:00:45
a little too sciency for me, everybody. This is going to be like biology class, and we're going to be very confused.
01:00:52
that [ __ ] right out. We don't need science. Science. Facts? Are you guys looking for facts?
01:00:59
[ __ ] that. Like, what? No, we don't want scientific facts. And here, there's hard-to-pronounce words.
01:01:07
Yes, of course. me sad. And are you guys Are you Are you all right? Right, exactly. Science is not a
01:01:14
reliable thing in a trial? Can you imagine? Like 1990. That's what people are saying. I was only born 6 years
01:01:20
later. Jesus. Like you were five. Five Wow, that's it. Um, I'm like, you're old.
01:01:26
1990, right? Yeah. Yeah, five. And they're And they're literally like, "DNA?" like, "Ew, what's that? Like sounds
01:01:32
gross." in your lifetime. Yeah, that's upsetting. Isn't that upsetting? upsetting.
01:01:37
But, like I said, this was a time in America where DNA really hadn't been used in a ton of court cases.
01:01:43
Yeah. To to get a guilty verdict, anyways. Yeah, it's hard to say. So, he was definitely hoping
01:01:49
that all this scientific garbage Oh, yeah. hullabaloo was going to go over the jury's head. But, just in case it
01:01:56
didn't, he also tried to put doubt in their minds about everybody there that day and told the jury, "There were three
01:02:03
other boys in the house that day who could have done this, right? They were there right around the time of the
01:02:06
murder." I'm like, "They're three 14-year-olds. They are all the same size." Yeah. I I don't think so.
01:02:12
Truly. No. Now, luckily, prosecutor Cotter there was able to shoot down that argument by pointing out how unlikely it
01:02:19
would be for three 14-year-old boys to commit, {quote} "a savage, vicious act, then covered with blood, and then go
01:02:26
calmly play basketball." Yeah. Cuz again, like they literally had no alibi. Yeah. And then to prove his point even
01:02:33
further that it wasn't one of these younger boys, he explained that one of the boys placed a call to his mom from
01:02:38
the Gallop house at about 3:21 to go tell her that he and his friends were leaving to play basketball. Hm. So,
01:02:47
I wonder because that phone call meant Kelly entered the house shortly after 3:20 p.m., I would say,
01:02:53
that she would have been in the house alone with Robert. So, that makes me wonder, was it John Jay that called, or
01:03:00
was it Robert saying he was John Jay, knowing that his brother had been maybe like flirting with Kelly, and they had
01:03:07
all gone out to go play basketball, and he saw some kind of opportunity? That to me That's what That That makes
01:03:15
sense. Right? To me, it makes sense that this little [ __ ] would pretend to be his
01:03:19
little brother to lure her to that house. what I think. Because I don't see I don't know anything about this family.
01:03:27
I don't know anything about these this pagan his brother. Uh-uh. But, I don't know if it makes sense that like
01:03:35
this kid would just lure her there, especially if he liked her. If he was sweet on her, exactly.
01:03:40
Like they had some kind of thing. And then he's going to leave? Like if anything, you would think he would If he
01:03:44
was the one that called her, I feel like And And if she liked him, they would have gone and played basketball
01:03:49
together, you know? Yeah, it's strange. To me, it feels more like this guy pretending. Yeah,
01:03:55
definitely. I agree. cunning as [ __ ] That's my theory, is that he obviously saw Kelly around town,
01:04:01
probably developed some kind of weird [ __ ] fascination, Because he's a figure of fun.
01:04:05
[ __ ] troll. Oh, he's beyond even Pigman. beyond words. True pigman. Yuckas. Yeah. Yuckas McGee
01:04:15
is the new name. Truly. Now, over the course of the next few weeks, jurors were presented with a whole slew of
01:04:20
information and uh evidence. I can't imagine having to sit on this jury. No, I I can't. Having
01:04:28
to hear about those injuries in real time would be outrageous. And they did have to because the doctor, the medical
01:04:34
examiner, took the stand to testify about the extent of the injuries and placed the death somewhere between
01:04:40
3:30 and 8:20. I'm thinking it was closer to the 3:20 range of things. Um, and the doctor also testified that
01:04:48
while a lot of the slice injuries were caused by the rusty bayonet, there were others caused by at least two additional
01:04:53
instruments that were unaccounted for. Then another expert, excuse me, the serologist, Dr. Arleen Colman, explained
01:05:01
how DNA can be used to trace blood or other fluids back to a single individual. Okay. So, she explained this
01:05:08
to the jury, and they were able to comprehend this. able to understand. Crazy. Now, according to this doctor, the
01:05:13
investigators had found several spots of Robert's blood mixed with or adjacent to
01:05:18
Kelly's blood, meaning that, {quote} "Kelly's killer had his own blood on his hands when he was attempting to clean up
01:05:25
after Kelly's death." Which makes sense. Of course it does. Like he's not coming out of there with
01:05:30
no scratches on his hands. Absolutely not. So, the analysis of the palm print that was discovered on a
01:05:36
piece of crown molding near the basement closet was also a match for the Robert for Robert, excuse me. And a crime scene
01:05:43
analyst testified that the print was most likely left there very shortly after Kelly was murdered. He must He
01:05:48
probably like leaned up against the wall to move her. So, after closing arguments on April
01:05:54
2nd, 1990, the jury deliberated for a full day before returning a verdict of guilty. Not even going to make you wait
01:06:02
for that. Good. When the verdict was read, the courtroom literally erupted into screams and cries
01:06:08
from Kelly's family. Like just they were so happy, but then that happiness turned to anger, and they
01:06:15
were like like it was just way too much for everybody involved. how do you even wrap your brain around
01:06:21
it? So, while that was all going on and like everybody's like trying to figure out even how to feel about this, Robert
01:06:27
is just sitting there with literally zero emotion. Cuz he's a a beast. He's beyond. Beyond. Now, he return
01:06:36
returned I was going to say reentered. He returned to court on June 1st for sentencing.
01:06:42
And in a surprising turn of events, 11 of the 12 jurors who sat on the case actually asked to attend the sentencing
01:06:49
hearing. They wanted to be there. And so did four of the alternates who had also sat through the trial. They
01:06:55
wanted to see this [ __ ] sentenced. Holy, I don't blame them. The court also received over a thousand letters from
01:07:01
the public demanding that he be sentenced to life in prison. Wow. So, he was given the opportunity to
01:07:07
speak before he was sentenced. Which I'll never understand why we let that happen. Me, either. And he did take
01:07:12
the chance to say that he was innocent. Shut the [ __ ] up. It's weird that your blood was
01:07:16
everywhere, though. Yeah, that's strange. And he told the jury, "I did not kill Kelly-Anne Tinnes.
01:07:21
Who let Kelly into our home? Who could have had any motive? These are questions I have to answer. These are questions
01:07:27
the jury should have considered." Okay. You really thought you did something? Like, for sure. He then went on to scold
01:07:34
the jury. He said that there was a police conspiracy to convict him. The jury was against him. They hadn't
01:07:40
behaved properly. The crime scene technicians and analysts who had processed the scene were also all out to
01:07:45
get him. Blah blah blah. cares that much about you, my friend. No. So, when he finished with that load
01:07:51
of malarkey, uh the judge Goodman, who I love, told him, "The acts which you committed in this case are are by far
01:07:58
the most atrocious that I have ever experienced in my 17 years as a judge." Truly. "And the manner in which you
01:08:04
killed Kelly-Anne Tinnes and mutilated her body surpasses the worst murders known to this county."
01:08:10
Yeah. "No dictionary contains sufficient words to describe the brutality of your
01:08:14
acts. Unfortunately, the sentence option given to me by all of our laws fall short of the sentence which you truly
01:08:21
deserve. You are hereby sentenced to a maximum term of life and to a minimum term of 25 years." Which is would not
01:08:29
even be slightly enough. So, 25 years to life. Like not enough. Oh, no. Now, Robert appealed his conviction
01:08:38
1993, thinking that that was really going to move anybody. It didn't. He said it was on the grounds that the
01:08:44
evidence was mishandled, the analysis of the DNA was improper, cuz he knows how to do that. Oh, yeah. And the um No,
01:08:51
that was just it. But, the appeals court upheld the conviction. Good. Now, he maintained his innocence until his case
01:08:58
came up for consideration by the parole board Oh. in 2013. And he had a hearing.
01:09:04
And he finally confessed to the murder. And he said that he had killed Kelly-Anne, {quote} "in a rage due to
01:09:12
his due to his use of a ridiculous amount of anabolic steroids." it. Yep. I knew it. But, like I I've seen people
01:09:22
on steroids. You've seen people on steroids. That is more than just steroids. You have a beast that lives
01:09:28
inside of you. I was just going to say. That was then fed those steroids. those steroids. That's a perfect way of
01:09:34
saying it. Exactly. very much already inside of you. It is inside every cell in your body that you
01:09:42
were able Anabolic steroids did not create you to do that. No. They allowed that beast to come out.
01:09:49
That's all it was. Exactly. He claimed that he never meant to kill her. Shut the [ __ ] up, Robert. Shut the [ __ ] up.
01:10:01
The extent of her injuries and you never meant to kill her. I want to put a boot in your [ __ ]
01:10:07
face. Are you kidding me? You never meant to kill her. Shut the [ __ ] up. Like go back to your tiny little cell
01:10:14
Say nothing. the rest of your days remembering what you did to her knowing full well that
01:10:20
you are going to a place that is literally worse than hell. I hope she haunts you until the minute
01:10:27
you die. every single second truly of every single I hope Kelly haunts you. He said he was remorseful.
01:10:35
Oh, shut the [ __ ] up. are cuz you want to get out of prison. You don't exist. You're not a real
01:10:40
thing. No. You don't have the same [ __ ] that everybody else does. Remorse is not it's
01:10:46
a vocabulary word to you. It's not a feeling. If you can do that to a human there is
01:10:51
no part of me that believes you are capable of remorse. Not one part of me that believes that.
01:10:56
not. Luckily, state parole officials were as unconvinced as we are and Robert has
01:11:03
since been denied parole on two different occasions. they tell him to go [ __ ] himself every
01:11:07
single time. I don't think they're allowed to but they probably say it as he walks out.
01:11:11
as he walked out, I'd be like, "Don't don't forget, Robert. Go [ __ ] yourself."
01:11:15
Every single time. Remember last time? Go [ __ ] yourself. If you haven't done it
01:11:19
yet Yep. go [ __ ] yourself, Robert. Literally into oblivion. I hate this pig. I This is like This is
01:11:28
of the worst. the most brutal ever I think I can I mean that is But I I I don't think I could ever cover another
01:11:36
case like this. Now, in the years since Kelly's murder, her parents, Richard and Victoria, they
01:11:41
hold a celebration on her birthday, March 5th Oh. uh every single year to remember her. And still, their neighbors
01:11:48
from Horton Road join them and now it's gone like way above and beyond that. Like people all join all the time.
01:11:54
Amazing. And from all over. And in 2021, they had a a memorial unveiled at a park in
01:12:00
Valley Stream which honors the memory of Kelly. Oh, I love that. Now, Robert remains in
01:12:04
prison. He still hopes that he's going to get some kind of parole. Uh he's not going to. I hope you slowly rot. But
01:12:13
Richard and Victoria and countless other members of Valley Stream are locked and
01:12:19
loaded with victim impact statements and letters demanding he remain in prison. In the interest of public safety Uh
01:12:26
Yeah. Like not only just for their peace of mind, like not wanting to see him ever
01:12:30
again But he should never be allowed around people ever again. you can do that one time, I can't
01:12:38
[ __ ] imagine what you would do if you like didn't live in your parents' house and were left to your own devices.
01:12:45
Yeah. I can't even fathom it. in your parents' home. Well, that's what's wild to me.
01:12:50
Just went down to the basement. No. I can't. What the really can't [ __ ] So, that is the tragic tragic tragic
01:12:59
case of Kelly Anne Tinyes. I am speechless. It was very hard to get through. I like
01:13:07
Speechless. Just You just remember being 13 and I can't imagine that happening to like
01:13:13
anybody I knew at 13 years old. A 13 is a a baby. I mean that is She was just about to two days later,
01:13:20
she would have been 14. Oh, right before her birthday and it's just like That family, I can't. And like her poor
01:13:27
little brother. That's the thing and then to have to like go on and like be okay for Richie.
01:13:32
Like I can't imagine. I can't imagine but they seem like the most amazing people. They really do.
01:13:38
Wow. Oh, I just want to give them a hug. I know. That's awful. Yeah, this is a awful case. I think um were you going to
01:13:45
do something spooky? Yeah, you know what? I'm going to follow this up with something maybe like um
01:13:49
haunted road or lake or like or something. I'll I'll you'll know obviously but like it's
01:13:56
There'll be there'll be some something in there. haunted school. I think we have a whole
01:13:59
folder of those. Yeah, we got a lot of those. So, yeah, we'll follow it up with just one spooky. Yeah, just a little
01:14:04
Haven't done one in a while. Just a little palate cleanser if you will. Yeah, we're due for one. Feels
01:14:08
right. Feels feels good especially after this. I need a minute. Yeah. So, I need
01:14:13
a beat. Yeah, I need a beat. You know. Oi. So, yeah, look out for that. And with that being said, guys, we hope
01:14:19
you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. You know I'm not saying anything.
01:14:24
No. That's it. Nope. That's a wrap. Bye. Goodbye. Love you guys. Hope you have a great
01:14:30
day.