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hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid and I'm sick she's like very Loop
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did you take Dayquil today uh no you didn't take anything I didn't you're so loopy I'm just I'm Raw dogging the day
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wo settle down brother uh it's been very funny up in the Pod lab today it's been
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a good we're good time gals today we are Mikey included Mikey is part of the good
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time gals what's up with you how's your um what day is this coming out like what's going on I think this I think
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this comes out like after Thanksgiving yeah so like how was your Thanksgiving well it was great you were there yeah I
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was I was just looking for things to chat about you [ __ ] I'm just being a dick um douche we just start screaming
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like [ __ ] you we just turn off the mic just an hour of Silence um no Thanksgiving was great yeah I liked it
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you great cook thanks you bet I hope you guys ate all kinds of delicious things I
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forgot to take leftovers and then you went away for a weekend I know and I didn't get to go out we were all
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supposed to go away and do like this fun little family thing and um I couldn't because my cat was sick my little Frank
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he was sick and it turns out it was very scary you guys if your cat has ever passed a stone um and you think that
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somebody's been murdered in your house same I the amount of blood that I was Finding just in various spots throughout
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my house I was like oh my God that sounds terrifying it was so scary and we knew that Franklin like wasn't feeling
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well cuz he gets super cuddly when he doesn't feel well so we took him to the vet and it turns out he passed one stone
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but unfortunately my man still has one to pass so he's out here yeah but they sent his like cultures to Italy or
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something that's fancy as hell I know and the the cultures came back and they didn't have bacteria so that's that's my
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cat's health for you he's okay and I love him so much thank you we love Frankie Frankie forever you and Franklin
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have a spiritual connection we really do no you do and Franklin doesn't like very
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many people no that's what makes me feel so good yeah he Lov you cuz he'll come up and snuggle me on my lap yeah and
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he's not snuggly with just anybody like even through he's like sometimes snuggly
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with but most of the time it just me but me always snuggly always I know always me and Franky for
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life it's getting to the end of the day it's getting to the end of the day and we're goofy we're goofy Luffy um we're
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not going to be goofy for long though because I do actually have a very sad case today that's why we're getting it
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out now yes exactly we had to get it out of our systems you feel you feel UNG goofi um I believe I do and by the way
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it's I just have a cold day I don't have Co or anything in case you guys are wondering to yeah I just like I don't
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have a yeah I'm not like out here spreading Co to Ash can you imagine if she did that to me that'd be shitty as
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hell it would be shitty as hell your book tour gave us Co and then I know and then and then and then but no it's just
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a cold it's one of those kids are back to school I get all the the delicious germs
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that come floating in here I just take I just eat them up the most wonderful time
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of the year but you did determine that you actually did eat the germs up I think I did oh yeah cuz I determined my
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kids um like they they're not sick knock on wood they're just carriers they're just carrier pigeons here bringing it
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into me when we have like lots of after school activities that we have to like go in different directions to I will
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like have to be like eating you know kind of quick and on the go so if they fin don't finish something I'll just
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like quickly eat it up of course whatever they scoop that up just to just to like get some fuel for the next thing
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yeah and I'm pretty that's probably what happened yeah they're gross nasty saliva
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germs around that's why they're always trying to drink out of my water bottle and I'm like get the [ __ ] away from tit
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stuff it's true do not touch titi's water bottle I don't say that can you imagine oh my God I would never but I
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say the other day at dance class I was like no no no this is a grown-up drink because I'm drinking like uh it's like
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armor colost so I'm like you guys probably shouldn't drink that but I was like oh [ __ ] everybody at all the other
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moms probably thought that I said you had like wine in your you're tumbler I'm just sipping on the scissor by dance
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class like this is a grownup drink they're like what they're like wow Titi yeah you're crazy yeah so I'm all any
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parents or people taking care of little kids out there um my my thoughts are with you at this difficult time back to
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school during the winter and fall it's rough but we're good it's you're good but it's only the start of the season I
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know hopefully I'm building some immunity I'm on vitamins yeah take some emergency yeah we love an emergency
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moment here I do too yeah some liquid IV liquid IV of course is sponsor hell yeah
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the colostrum I'm taking is great 10 out of 10 recommend not a doctor but and that's health and wellness with me being
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sick and me not being sick so let's get into it today Brothers I have an older case but it's you know how we always are
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like we do the older cases because the way that they solve it is always like so interesting yes this case in particular
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the way they solve this case is actually wild like it took some it took some serious detective work and it took
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somebody going back to the scene to find something that really even like drove it
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home further oh I love the dedication yeah so we're going to be talking today about the murder of Nancy Evans
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titterton and I just want to say she sounds like she was like so cool a and just like sweet poor Nancy I feel bad
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cuz she just had her career like really start to take off like she was really like climbing the ladder in the right
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direction and this this crime all crime is obviously pretty senseless but this one specifically was so
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senseless so let's get into it so Nancy Violet Evans was born in 1903 in Dayton Ohio to Frank and Stephanie Evans uh
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from a very young young age she took a strong interest in reading and writing and after she graduated from high school
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in 1920 she decided she was going to get her degree in English at Antioch college
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she crushed it there she won multiple awards for her writing and once she graduated from college in 1924 she went
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back home to Dayton she worked briefly in a factory but then moved on to run a small Bookshop but then decided she
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wanted a little bit more for herself so she moved to the Big Apple New York City
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and she decided there she was going to pursue a literary career wow yeah just rolling with it rolling with the
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literary punches so when she got to New York Nancy rented a small apartment in Greenwich Village and she found a job as
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a book seller at Lord and Taylor which is funny to think about Lord and Taylor selling books I know but in her spare
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time she focused on making connections in the literary world she wrote book reviews for a bunch of New York
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newspapers just writing anywhere she could and awesome really trying to get her name out there and the work of
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writing book reviews back then wasn't really glamorous but she did it so that it would keep her connected to to her
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passion and after a few years she was offered a job at double double day books which was one of the most prominent
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names in publishing at the time and there she was instrumental in building the company's uh nent but increasingly
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popular crime Club series oh which was a true crime series that's pretty cool yeah so she had an interest in that one
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friend leater told reporters the principal thing about Nancy was that she was not flashy in any way she'd rather
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discuss a new book I think than anything she wasn't interested in politics or parties or clothes as most women are so
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in 1927 Nancy met Lewis titon a British man who also loved literature and writing just as much as she did Lewis
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tton had been a star academic at Harvard and at Cambridge University so very educated man he studied Middle Eastern
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languages there before he took a job as the assistant editor at Atlantic Monthly
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which was a really really impressive achievement for somebody who is still in his 20s the job at Atlantic opened doors
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for him in the literary world and within a few years he moved on to a position as
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associate editor at the McMillan company one of the biggest names in publishing as well and like Nancy he also spent his
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spare time writing book reviews huh which you just think of the two of and they're a good couple don't worry you
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just think please tell me I can like them yeah just like sitting at home writing book reviews together like
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that's just such a cozy life I thought they were living that they dated for 2 years and then they got married in
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October of 1929 in a small ceremony at the little little church around the corner famous landmark in New York City
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and not long after their wedding they moved to the beakman Place Apartments on the east side of
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Manhattan now in a few in the few years that followed beakman place would actually gain quite some notoriety for a
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series of unconnected murders beginning in 1935 when uh ver stretz murdered her boyfriend and then that was followed by
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Nancy Ton's uh murder 6 months later in 1936 and finally the murder of Veronica Gideon in 1937 which we actually just
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recently covered so interesting jeez yeah you just wonder what the energy was in that place you know in a tragically
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ironic twist actually just after moving into beakman Nancy wrote to a friend about how much she loved her new place
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she said I'm so glad to get out of Hell's Kitchen even though we had bars on the window I never felt safe there
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nothing could happen to anyone on beakman place oh no which very much could oh no
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but Nancy and Lewis had a lot of good years before tragedy visited beakman place by then Lewis had accepted a new
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job as the chief of the script division at NBC radio and for somebody who spent his entire professional life focused on
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literature and language this new position was difficult but as Harold sheer wrote Lewis was quote intent on
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elevating the cultural quality of radio programming it's like really he people you know yeah at the time at the same
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time Nancy had made a major transition of her own she actually left her job at double day to focus on her own writing
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full-time at first her success was pretty slow to come she published a few stories and various literary magazines
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but she was really struggling to find her home as an author then in 1935 story magazine which was a prestigious Journal
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known for launching some of the biggest authors of the day they offered to publish her short story called I shall
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decline my head it was a story about a quote Old Man a drift in dreams of the past h so the story actually caught the
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attention of some major players in the publishing world and some of them called her a writer of exceptional literary
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merit oh that would be amazing to hear yeah absolutely so after that Nancy was offered a contract for her first novel
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which was published by story press a new publishing imprint of story magazine she
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was really she had just really found like big success writing yeah seriously but unfortunately it was shortlived on
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the morning of April 10th which was Good Friday 193 6 Lewis finished his breakfast around 800 in the morning and
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left to head into his office just a short time later when he arrived he found what he described as an amusing
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letter from a friend so a little after 9:00 a.m. he called Nancy to tell her about the letter this was the first of
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two calls that Nancy got that morning the other call came from her friend Georgia Mansbridge uh she spoke with
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Georgia for a few minutes and then hung up around 10:15 a.m. she and Georgia made dinner plans for that night and
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Georgia later told reporters I feel sure no one was was in her apartment when we
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spoke now nobody heard anything from Nancy until about 11:30 in the morning when onita smithad a maid in the
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apartment just below the titter tins actually heard somebody in the building yell Dudley Dudley Dudley and then the
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voice suddenly went quiet Dudley Mings was the building's handyman so whoever this was was presumably calling out for
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him according to author Harold sheer there was an urgency to the cry but since the tenants routinely shouted for
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Mings whenever a toilet overflowed a ceiling light blew or a sash window wouldn't open the maid disregarded the
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cry just thinking it was nothing more than that which you can understand yeah of course so a short time later uh
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delivery boy from a local dry cleaner also arrived at beakman place he had a dress for Nancy and he was under the
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impression that she would be home but after ringing the bell several times and getting no answer he left just was going
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to deliver the dress at a different time yeah at 4:15 p.m. another delivery arrived this time it was an upholster
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Theodore Krueger and his assistant John fenza they were there to deliver a love seat that Nancy had uh had reupholstered
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and after climbing the four flights of stairs they were surprised to find that the Ton's front door was actually open
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slightly oh that must be so ominous yeah Krueger knocked on the door loudly and didn't get any response but he assumed
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that maybe they left the door open for him so he could deliver the light seat like they knew this delivery was coming
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so the two men entered and they set the sofa down Krueger left the bill on the seat and he intended to call later but
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as they were making their way downstairs to leave he realized that he didn't have
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their phone number so he wasn't going to be able to call them make good on this so he went back up to the apartment to
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get the number before he and his assistant left he later told the police I found the phone in the bedroom and
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took the number and as he was turning to leave Krueger noticed that the bathroom
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light was on and that the door was slightly open so he went over and knocked which pushed the door open just
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even wider standing in the doorway he could see a woman's nude leg hang over the side of the tub so oh no he called
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out to her loudly but there was no sign of movement now even more concerned he inched closer to the tub and he looked
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inside and he later said my knees began shaking and I felt sick I shouted to Johnny my God Something's Happened to
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the misses call the police so Krueger's assistant did as he was told and despite having not been in
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the bathroom at the time or having been told what his boss had discovered he told the officer on the other end
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there's a woman tied up in the bathtub um that's suspicious uhhuh that's weird yeah so homicide detectives arrived at
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the apartment a few minutes later and they confirmed what fiorenza had claimed on the phone Nancy was laying face down
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in the tub she was nude except for a white slip around her waist and the pink pajama top and house coat that had been
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tied around her neck and used to strangle her that's awful there was really no sign of a struggle in the
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apartment so detectives concluded that she had to have known her attacker and most likely let let him in voluntarily
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that's even worse based on the state of disarray in the bedroom they assumed that some kind of assault had occurred
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there the clothing that Nancy had been wearing that morning was strewn about the room and it looked actually like it
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had been ripped from her body so there was evidence of a struggle for sure examining the body the medical examiner
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Thomas Gonzalez found ligature marks around her wrist and surmised that Nancy had been bound and most likely sexually
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assaulted before her pajamas were double knotted around her neck and she was dumped in the bathtub holy [ __ ] just
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thinking of her pajamas being used to strangle her so dark but the most chilling information from the medical
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examiner was his determination that Nancy was still alive when her attacker put her body in the tub oh that's awful
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and she eventually died there from asfixiation oh yeah after doing his preliminary examination Gonzalez ordered
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that ny's body be removed from the tub and transported to the morg and it was at that point point that they discovered
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a 12in length of cord underneath her body which presumably was what was used to bind her wrists but remember they
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were no longer bound ny's friend Georgia told her Porters poor little Nancy she couldn't fight she had no strength she
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wouldn't know what to do all she could do was scream cuz she was a woman of very small stature she was very petite
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now the crime scene didn't lend a lot of Clues the Venetian blinds were all shut
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and the apartment had been dark when the two men arrived to deliver the love seat
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and in the bedroom both beds appeared to still have been made from that morning but the bed near the bathroom was quote
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slightly rumpled as though somebody perhaps during a struggle had brushed heavily against it investigators checked
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the fire escape and concluded that there was no way somebody would have been able
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to reach that from the street so the killer definitely would have had to come through the front door yeah and then in
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the bathroom they did discover a fingerprint on the tub and in the bedroom they found a fountain pen on the
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floor just okay all the clues that they could have possibly found while technicians continued to process the
00:17:02
apartment detectives spanned out around the building just trying to talk to potential Witnesses and any neighbors
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who may have heard something the first person they talked to was obviously nany's husband Lewis he actually arrived
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at the apartment about an hour after police had started their investigation and he hadn't been told about his wife's
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death yet so he just walked into this oh that's awful and he was shocked to find
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countless detectives and police in his apartment when he got home imagine showing up to that yeah he actually when
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he heard what happened he collapsed oh that breaks my heart yeah it's very sad and given his horrified and very
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devastated response to what had happened he really seemed like an unlikely suspect yeah but they did confirm his
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Alibi as well and it checked out so he had nothing to do with this the others who were initial but not very strong
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suspects included four painters who had been working in the building that day and actually theirs were among the
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fingerprints that had been discovered in the apartment but since they were working in the apartment in the days
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leading up to this that obviously made sense yeah but they also had aliis that were checked into to and they were ruled
00:18:07
out as suspects okay other than the maid in the apartment below none of the neighbors actually heard any noises
00:18:14
coming from the apartment that morning and one neighbor told a reporter My Collie is a very nervous dog if there
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had been any great disturbance I'm sure he would have barked oh so there you go and I believe that yeah there was
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however another strange occurrence were laid by Countess Alice Hoyos who lived in the apartment two floors beneath the
00:18:34
titter count the Countess oh [ __ ] and because she's a countess I just refer to
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her as the Countess the Countess according to the Countess and this is really freaky an unknown man had rung
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the bell at her apartment multiple times in the days before the murder and she said each time it was like he was trying
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to disguise his voice so he sounded like somebody different each time he did this
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oh and she told detectives each incident went the same way she said the buzzer would ring she would answer it and then
00:19:02
the man would say I'm looking for Miss and then he would Mumble a name what I like that not actually come out and say
00:19:09
any name hoping somebody would open the door to be like who are you looking for yes exactly so obviously these freaked
00:19:15
her out these these calls freaked her out because she was sure like you just said they were a Roose to get her to
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open the door so she actually tried to get a good look at the man before he walked away she told detectives he was
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young wore good clothing and seemed to be attempting to hide his face H and she told them that the last time the man
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rang the bell was actually just a few hours before Nancy was murdered ooh yeah that's haunting it is so the following
00:19:40
day the medical examiner Dr Gonzalez released his autopsy report which confirmed among other things
00:19:46
unfortunately that Nancy had been sexually assaulted and the cause of death was listed as ligature
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strangulation yeah the report also stated that quote the strangulation caused a hemorrhage of the larynx and
00:19:59
three slight internal hemorrhages of the scalp wow so this was a violent assault
00:20:04
so the time of death was listed between 11 and 11:30 a.m. and that was based on the fact that rigger mortise had quote
00:20:10
become virtually complete by the time that Gonzalez made his preliminary examination around 5:30 p.m. okay and
00:20:16
this more or less corresponded with what the downstairs maid said she told police
00:20:21
that she heard those screams coming from the apartment and scratching and bruising on ny's hands and arms
00:20:27
suggested that she actually had tried very hard to fight off her attacker in their statement to the press
00:20:33
a spokesperson for the NYPD appeared optimistic he told reporters there are a lot of things that haven't been
00:20:39
developed yet the research detectives have taken something to the Laboratories for further examination or making a
00:20:44
thorough search but we won't be able to get any real basis for investigation until final reports from
00:20:50
them now despite the optimistic tone the truth was that they really didn't have a
00:20:55
lot of evidence to work with and they had almost zero leads other than the short length of cord found with the body
00:21:02
which was pretty unremarkable the only other significant clue was that unidentified fingerprint in the bathroom
00:21:09
now at that time police forensic departments were actually just starting to work with a new fingerprinting
00:21:14
process they would use silver nitrate to lift prints from surfaces like Fabric and porous materials oh interesting yeah
00:21:22
right but the system was new and it was going to take a lot of time so investigators had to be patient with
00:21:27
that mhm so while investigators waited on science to provide any leads the Press seized upon the story of yet
00:21:33
another murder in beakman place author Harold sheer wrote that the killing occurred one week to the day after ver
00:21:40
stretz his acquittal only added to its lured appeal of course now she was somebody who lived in the apartment beer
00:21:45
struts and she had been accused of murdering her lover in a jealous rage but she was actually acquitted after she
00:21:50
testified for hours on the stand that her murder had been committed in self-defense The Daily Mirror was among
00:21:57
the Press who reported the story in a very crude manner they quote and this is awful they quote presented the gruesome
00:22:04
sex killing as a five panel comic strip complete with graphic drawings of the corpse and a fedora wearing detective
00:22:11
bearing a marked resemblance to Dick Tracy are you [ __ ] kidding me like they made a graphic novel out of the
00:22:19
crime scene they made a literal comic strip a five panel comic strip like you got to be tapped you got to be tapped to
00:22:26
do that that's wow and just to publish that and be like yeah this is a good this is a good choice the amount of
00:22:33
people that that went through to approve that is astronomical zero zero integrity
00:22:40
and nobody was like this is in bad taste yeah I don't know how that got through other papers particularly the tabloids
00:22:48
focused on ny's quote owlishly solemn bookish demeanor and claimed that she quote liked to parade around her
00:22:54
apartment in a negl even when delivery boys and workmen were present oh shut the [ __ ] up number one even if she did
00:23:02
that's her [ __ ] prerogative she's in her own home and number two oh were you there did you know that ex like [ __ ] off
00:23:09
e and actually that's incorrect she was wearing pajamas which she was strangled with so that's awful nice try she do
00:23:15
whatever the [ __ ] she wants it's again it's her [ __ ] apartment but the more reputable Outlets like the New York
00:23:21
Times focused on the scientific aspects of the investigation drawing comparisons
00:23:26
to other recent cases where science actually played a iCal role in Catching The Killers Like Richard Hopman who was
00:23:32
found responsible for the Lindberg baby kidnapping and murder a New York Times Reporter wrote test tubes bubbled
00:23:38
microscope experts bent over slides and a group of police research men pondered possibly important notes yesterday
00:23:45
fields of science almost ignored here to for were entered yesterday and some of the methods of scientific investigation
00:23:51
suggested in the hoptman case have been resorted to I just love how they used to
00:23:55
talk I was just going to say I love the here to four of it all here to4 yeah that's a fun that's got a nice mouth
00:24:01
feel it does here to4 here to4 now within days the tabloids had resorted to Sensational tactics like hiring psychic
00:24:09
mediums to comment on the identity of the killer in a Daily Mirror article a few days after the murder the paper quot
00:24:16
Miss Myra Kingsley prominent astrologist is claiming quote that the crime was due
00:24:20
to the conjunction of the planet Mars the war god with the sun in the eighth house which signifies death
00:24:28
also consulted ny's chart and deduced quote the murderer was an older man and that he either came from or has gone to
00:24:35
a distance since the crime was committed okay which it's like there's a time and
00:24:41
a place for astrology and I just don't feel like it's here I don't I don't think it's here and I don't know what
00:24:47
somebody's chart can tell you about the person that murdered them yeah I don't about that like I know your chart can
00:24:52
tell you a lot about you yeah and you know maybe when you're going to die but I just feels inappropriate yeah this
00:24:59
just especially with how everybody else is treating it like let's not yeah and it's like it'd be one thing if like you
00:25:04
know for some reason her husband wanted to cons consult with an astrologist about this but it's a t to just take it
00:25:12
upon yourself is really wild yeah but she wasn't the only one the mirror were not alone in their tacky Sensational
00:25:18
journalism the New York posts not wanting to be outdone consulted their own astrologer B Bart and she claimed
00:25:24
the murderer is German or English has a light complexion takes drugs or drinks met Miss titton in the fall of 1935 and
00:25:32
escaped from beakman place in a southwesterly direction again okay I don't know how
00:25:37
astrology would tell you that yeah I'm not sure about that astrolog is not going to tell you how and where this man
00:25:42
escaped to like that doesn't make any sense no meanwhile actual detectives focused on the few pieces of evidence
00:25:49
that they did have in the case and the biggest piece among them was the length of cord found in the bathtub unlike a
00:25:55
traditional rope that you would expect to find in a case like this this cord was thin and it looked like the kind of
00:26:01
cord found on the blinds in the titton apartment oh but all of the cords in the apartment blinds appeared to be intact
00:26:08
so it wasn't from them H but given the length a little over 12 in it seemed unrealistic that it would have bound
00:26:15
nany's hands for very long so detectives theorized that it had to have come from
00:26:19
a longer piece of rope okay and if that was the case they believed quote the killer intent on removing all physical
00:26:25
evidence had sliced off the rope and carried it away with him however in his rush to get away he must have missed the
00:26:31
shorter piece concealed under nany's body oh and they were correct okay no nany's funeral service was held on April
00:26:39
13th and attended by over 200 people wow I mean that's telling that's very telling that same day investigators
00:26:48
released another statement to the press this time to address the growing number of rumors in the press that Nancy had
00:26:53
been having an affair and was murdered by her lover oh my God which was just completely seriously assistant Chief
00:27:00
Inspector John lion said we are satisfied now that Mrs titton voluntarily admitted the man this does
00:27:05
not mean however that he was a lover or a close friend it may have been a salesperson or a repair man of some sort
00:27:11
someone who made a casual call now that's the thing it doesn't need to be salacious just because she let somebody
00:27:17
in it doesn't mean they were involved with each other romantically exactly investigators felt confident that they
00:27:23
were zeroing in on the type of man who had murdered Nancy but days after her body was discovered they were still no
00:27:29
closer to identifying a suspect the fingerprints that they pulled from the Fabrics on the ligure on the ligature
00:27:35
were too degraded to be of use and the skin fragments found under ny's nails were equally useless unfortunately by
00:27:42
midweek the list of potential suspects had narrowed even further as ny's friends and family were all cleared one
00:27:48
after the other by the end of the week investigators had run down pretty much all of their leads and finally admitted
00:27:55
publicly that despite the full-time efforts of 65 detectives on the case they were at a loss wow yeah that is so
00:28:03
that would be devastating to hear yeah especially as her family her husband like I can't imagine all attempts to
00:28:09
trace the manufacturing of the cord used to bind ny's hands had proved fruitless
00:28:14
but still the cord remained one of the only viable clues in the case and finally on April 17th detectives got a
00:28:21
break in the case when a representative from the Handover cordage company in York Pennsylvania contacted them to
00:28:28
confirm that that cord was one of many created in their own Factory wow which is like that's crazy that is crazy
00:28:36
according to the representative from the company the cord contained istle which is a fiber nearly unique to their
00:28:42
product which led them to believe that it was one of theirs and they also mentioned that it was commonly used in
00:28:49
furniture upholstery oh uhhuh okay they gave detectives a complete list of their
00:28:55
Distributors and investigators started tracking the various shipments from the Distributors to see if any cordage had
00:29:01
made its way to service people in or around Manhattan M after combing through a very large number of Records
00:29:07
detectives finally traced a shipment to a New York City Distributor who had among their clients Theodore Krueger in
00:29:15
a pollster on the upper east side and the man who had discovered ny's body remember ah cuz remember she was getting
00:29:22
a delivery from an upholster on the morning of her murder detectives had actually interviewed Krueger extensively
00:29:28
and he had been ruled out as a suspect uh they were able to confirm that he had been in the shop on the morning of the
00:29:34
murder his assistant John fiorenza on the other hand had not been ruled out and as they started looking into fenza's
00:29:42
background they learned that not only did he have a lengthy criminal history but also a significant psychiatric
00:29:48
report that described him as among other things a quote personality deviate who would have difficulty in learning to
00:29:55
refrain from illegal acts from time to time oh I also love that it's from time to time yeah just every now and then
00:30:02
sometimes he's going to have a hard time referring from illegal activities he's good yeah the more detectives learned
00:30:08
about John fiorenza the more convinced they became that he was the most likely killer amongst their suspects he was
00:30:14
described as a quote grade school dropout with a dull normal IQ and a face fixed in a Perpetual smirk I love the
00:30:22
dull normal IQ they're like dull and normal so boring way to have a normal IQ boring so [ __ ] dull I love I love
00:30:32
that describing something as dull Just Hits it does hit you're so dull that word just has like a uh it really does
00:30:39
yeah but it seemed that he uh just really didn't have a lot going for him no there's really nothing that sets him
00:30:44
apart yeah never really had at the time of the murder he was a 24-year-old Apprentice living with his mother and
00:30:49
her second husband in Brooklyn and he was quote withdrawn to the point of extreme social isolation which is scary
00:30:56
yeah his stepfather told reporter and this was crazy that quote Johnny had only spoken to him no more than seven
00:31:03
times in the past 11 years what his stepdad whomst he lived with had spoken to him no more than
00:31:13
seven times in 11 years holy [ __ ] like what when you said extreme extreme you me extreme yeah that's like a that's
00:31:26
like a goreaphobia isn't it something akin to that I would I mean yeah maybe is there something you know adjacent to
00:31:32
that I would say yeah probably like he left the house but it was like a it was like a social agor guess yeah like
00:31:39
extreme yeah whoa like that's just like I like I'm a quiet person yeah you would
00:31:45
consider yourself an introvert yeah I consider myself an introvert and that is mindboggling to me well because you're
00:31:51
living in the same home as somebody like you don't even that and you're living in
00:31:55
New York so presumably you're living in an apartment you don't just like exchange pleasantries in the morning
00:32:00
that's the thing I'm like what's going on there I'm also like what did you say in those seven times damn yeah he also
00:32:07
um it was said that he hadn't started dating until a few years earlier um and he's 24 so of course that's a bit
00:32:12
unusual but he had started seeing his girlfriend Pauline de Antonio and he was planning to marry her in the fall
00:32:18
actually they were engaged okay yeah but his criminal history went back more than
00:32:23
a decade and his first arrest happened when he was 12 years old I mean that's not great that's not great
00:32:31
that's not a good start no he had stolen a bicycle and since then he had just been in in in and out of trouble with
00:32:36
the law on a regular basis for the most part the crimes that he committed were Petty they were like thefts but there
00:32:43
was a grand Larson charge for stealing uh musical instruments from a store okay and during one of his periods of
00:32:49
incarceration he was examined by a prison psychiatrist who described him as a quote neurotic type of Personality
00:32:55
deviate with him the wish's father to the thought and leads quickly to action without consideration or foresight
00:33:02
interesting yeah more simply put he was the type of person who acted very impulsively and based on what he wanted
00:33:08
in the moment without any kind of consideration for consequences I see and this the psychiatrist believed was
00:33:15
supported by his many Brazen crimes included including stealing cars in the middle of the day in full view of crowds
00:33:22
of people but just because he wanted to take them for a joy ride damn but would literally just like break into a car and
00:33:28
take it it's like whatever it just didn't give a [ __ ] it's mine yeah now despite John's criminal history and dull
00:33:35
personality so dull so dull Theodore Krueger had taken pity on JN and hired him like we said as an upholstery
00:33:42
assistant three years earlier upholstery was a skill that John had actually learned during one of his prison STS for
00:33:48
the most part his job was just to sweep up the studio keep the front windows clean help out with deliveries but
00:33:53
occasionally Krueger had him assist with more complicated tasks as far as Krueger
00:33:58
was concerned Jon was quote good-natured but not very quick witted and his criminal record which Krueger described
00:34:04
as being over little things had kept Jon from finding success okay Krueger thought that Jon seemed determined to
00:34:11
better his life though and he found that to be an admirable quality so he took a
00:34:15
chance on him which I get that yeah and Krueger seems like a nice guy yeah seems
00:34:19
like an admirable quality yeah if somebody is showing like they really are yeah exactly uh in fact the morning that they
00:34:28
were to deliver the love seat to Nancy tutton's apartment John had arrived a few hours late to work telling his boss
00:34:34
that he had been at an appointment with his probation officer so that's interesting H I was
00:34:40
going to say probation officer okay but you know still he's checking in with his
00:34:45
probation officer so Krueger's like he's doing the right thing he's being a good
00:34:49
kid like he's doing what he needs to do yeah he's trying to better himself yeah now although they had traced the cord
00:34:55
back to Krueger's shop and they were pretty confident that they had found their their killer at this point
00:35:00
investigators knew that the court alone was not going to be able to hold him for
00:35:04
very long and especially not on a murder charge after all that particular cord had been shipped to many upholstery
00:35:10
shops and they couldn't be sure if it definitely came from Theodore Kruger shop so this was all like very tenuous
00:35:16
yeah very tenuous so rather than arrest him Jon was placed under 24-hour surveillance while detectives and
00:35:22
forensic experts desperately searched for any additional evidence that would lead to a conviction
00:35:28
now after one week of Investigation the titterton apartment had been thoroughly searched and it really seemed unlikely
00:35:34
that any new evidence was going to be discovered but just in case on April 20th Dr Alexander getler a biochemist
00:35:42
who was working with the NYPD went back to the beakman Place Apartments in Hope of finding anything new H now he had
00:35:51
been the one actually to discover the Isley contained within the cord and eventually traced its origin so without
00:35:56
him like this all you be nowhere near this it never would have happened and if anybody was G to find something that
00:36:02
somebody had missed it was going to be this guy at the apartment he was combing over ny's bed spread with a high
00:36:08
powerered man uh magnifying glass when he discovered one single hair that the other technicians had missed a single
00:36:16
hair this guy for life no honestly I it makes me think of um Spencer readed it makes me think of Spencer from Criminal
00:36:24
Minds yes absolutely I just picture him like going over it with like a high powered glass yes uh now later he
00:36:31
described the hair as white and quote strangely stiff he said it certainly was not human now after examining the hair
00:36:38
under a microscope he determined that it was horse hair which was the kind typically used by upholsters oh I didn't
00:36:45
even think of that yep now aware that the tter had titon excuse me had their love seat delivered on the morning of
00:36:52
the murder getler took a sample of the horse hair from the love seat and compared it to the one that he
00:36:57
discovered on the bed and the two were a match so that hair that was found on Nancy's bed was a match to the love seat
00:37:04
that had been delivered that morning [ __ ] now given that the hair came from the love seat it didn't seem
00:37:10
unreasonable that one of the hairs made its way to another location in the apartment but that love seat hadn't been
00:37:16
delivered until after Nancy was killed which meant that the only way it could have gotten mixed up on the bed clothes
00:37:23
or the bed spread was if the killer had it on him when he sexually assaulted Nancy on oh God yeah and this was
00:37:30
precisely the piece of evidence that detectives needed to break that case wide open damn so they went back to
00:37:36
Theodore Krueger who was absolutely shocked to learn that his assistant was even a suspect he told detectives that
00:37:42
John fenzo was a quote perfect gentleman and assured him quote there was never anything about him that was bad he said
00:37:49
why I've even seen him take the meat out of his sandwich for lunch and give it to
00:37:52
our dog oh which is very sweet but like okay murderers are nice to animals sometimes I was just going to say okay
00:38:00
so so we're trying to make a connection here that if you feed a dog you could have possibly murdered a human being no
00:38:09
never got it Theodore seems very naive I was just going to say that that just seems like but that's such a nice thing
00:38:19
to do give a dog your your sandwich meat it is how could you be that nice but doesn't mean that you didn't murder
00:38:25
somebody it's true I feel bad that's very he because you can tell it like he was not wanting to accept yeah what was
00:38:33
in front of him and I feel bad too because that I mean that would make you doubt any kind of confidence you have in
00:38:39
anybody of course it would you're like I took a chance on this guy I really thought he was you know wanting to
00:38:43
better himself and I mean had he not given him a chance Nancy would still be alive technically possibly well so you
00:38:51
just think constantly like what the [ __ ] and and that's the thing like I can't
00:38:56
imagine what it feels like to have interacted and found yourself like enjoying the company of a person who
00:39:03
murders someone like that must be hard to reconcile absolutely it has nothing to do with you no absolutely not in fact
00:39:09
in case you're out there and that happened to you like you're prob don't don't think it has anything to do with
00:39:14
you no you're a better person than most of us you should be able to trust people
00:39:18
who are showing you that they're bettering themselves exactly and like we said he he was putting out all the
00:39:25
illusions that he was better in himself and uh Theodore confirmed to detectives that it was true that Jon had been late
00:39:32
to work on the morning of the murder but he said it was only because he had his weekly appointment with his probation
00:39:37
officer he's like he's doing the right thing now fenza's Alibi the probation appointment was the last piece of the
00:39:43
puzzle that detectives needed to knock down before they could arrest him fortunately that proved a lot easier
00:39:48
than they could have expected like I said the Friday that Nancy was murdered was Good Friday and John's probation
00:39:56
officer a very strict Catholic had taken that day off so there was no way John met with his probation officer wow
00:40:05
exactly what so then why was he late wow wow wow all the the way this case came together like I said at the beginning
00:40:14
like the that's why these old timey cases are so intriguing to us because it's not oh his DNA was found at the
00:40:20
Crim they saw him on a camera yeah they saw him on a camera it's this is like oldfashioned Detective have to go talk
00:40:27
to this person you find out from this person that this person wasn't working that day so this person's story doesn't
00:40:33
line up right like the and the fact that it lined up that way that it was Good Friday and so like it happened to be the
00:40:40
day that he a strict Catholic took off yeah that that's like crazy that's crazy and like the guy who went the
00:40:49
investigator who went back and found the hair that nobody else had found and it was just one just I mean picture one
00:40:54
strand of horse hair like that's a small hair it's like finding a dog hair on your bed yeah but just finding that back
00:41:01
then and then going back and saying oh that's from the the furniture that was reupholstered like it's unbelievable it
00:41:07
really is so with the newly discovered evidence in hand and John's Alibi disproven detectives moved quickly to
00:41:14
arrest their suspect and at first John denied having anything to do with the murder he insisted he was innocent but
00:41:20
after more than 16 hours of Relentless interrogation he asked to speak to commissioner Lewis valent uh Valentine
00:41:27
and he told the commissioner give me a cigarette and I'll tell you all I know damn all for just a cigarette wow
00:41:34
according to his confession John had gone to the titterton apartment on April 9th the day before the murder to pick up
00:41:41
the love seat with Theodore Krueger and as soon as he saw Nancy he said the idea
00:41:45
came to me of doing what I did to her afterward oh my God yeah as far as he could tell Nancy was a slight woman just
00:41:53
about 100 lb she he said she seemed gentle and softspoken so he was was pretty sure she wouldn't put up much of
00:41:58
a fight which he was wrong about because she did [ __ ] that guy and the next morning he called Krueger to say he'd be
00:42:05
late and then he grabbed the 52 in length of cord he'd taken from the upholstery Studio the day before and
00:42:11
made his way to the titterton apartment when he arrived there he rang the bell and Nancy released the door to let him
00:42:17
in because she knew who he was yeah upstairs he told her he'd come about the love seat and he wanted to know where
00:42:22
she wanted it uh he said just to get her in there I asked her didn't want the love seat in the bedroom and the
00:42:29
question prompted her to go to the bedroom to see if maybe she'd like the furniture in there and fenza followed
00:42:34
her once they were in the bedroom uh trigger warning this is pretty graphic he attacked Nancy and grabbed quote
00:42:41
whatever it was she had in her hand and stuffed it in her mouth so she couldn't yell anymore oh my God which is why
00:42:47
nobody heard anything yeah with Nancy gagged he started ripping off her clothes in a frenzy and then he sexually
00:42:53
assaulted her he said from time to time when she started to scream as the gag worked loose I throttled her with my
00:42:58
hands oh my God it just says this like he's recounting a TV show that he watched what a [ __ ] animal yeah truly
00:43:07
when he was done he grabbed the pajamas and the dressing coat from the floor knotted them together and used that
00:43:12
clothing to strangle Nancy which it's like I am how do you how do you go from like like Grand Larsen stealing cars to
00:43:22
murdering raping and murdering a woman this brutally I it's it's inconceivable when you look at this
00:43:31
guy he looks like such a little piece of [ __ ] he sure does got it right on his
00:43:36
face he does look dull he's got a dull stupid Perpetual smirk and that's the perfect way to describe it it's not a
00:43:42
smile it's a smirk it's a little [ __ ] eing smirk that's sh yeah at first he said he thought about filling the tub to
00:43:49
make it look like Nancy died by accident which I'm like that wouldn't have worked
00:43:53
because you strangled her and assaulted her but okay but cool but he couldn't find the plug so he left her face down
00:43:59
to strangle oh God before he left he got a knife from the kitchen and cut the cord that he used to bind her hands
00:44:05
assuming that he had taken it all with him when he left but he's dull mhm so he didn't he managed to get out of the
00:44:13
apartment he said without being seen tossed the cord in a public trash can and then stepped into a drug store to
00:44:18
call his boss and say he'd be a little later than he thought cuz he was you know meeting with his probation officer
00:44:24
doing the right thing cleaning up his act such a good guy giv meet to dogs [ __ ] that guy when he finally got back
00:44:30
to the shop a little before noon the two men finished fixing ny's love seat so he's sitting there fixing her love seat
00:44:37
knowing full well that she's dead in a bathtub holy [ __ ] and then they loaded it onto the truck and headed for beakman
00:44:44
Place wow when they asked why he had done what he did he seemed just as confused and said she wasn't my type if
00:44:51
I saw her on the street I wouldn't give her a second look [ __ ] you just to be a dick [ __ ] you
00:44:57
I don't know I I wouldn't have given her a Second Glance but I guess I just felt
00:45:01
like it that day oh excuse me go [ __ ] yourself yeah the arrest did come as a shock to those who knew him personally
00:45:08
his girlfriend Pauline refused to believe that he' committed the murder or was even capable of such a crime
00:45:14
which you got to believe when he confesses that he did it but also yeah I can understand not thinking that
00:45:20
somebody you love is capable of that no of course and she told a group of reporters assembled outside her
00:45:26
apartment he did not do it they're telling lies about him he did not confess he would not have confessed to
00:45:31
such a thing he will be back and we will be married in September babe here's the thing um if
00:45:39
that is the case like if if that if he has been implicated in this something's ay something is ay for sure so me don't
00:45:48
be so sure that you're going to get married in September cuz it's like I don't know if he's a great guy probably
00:45:53
not you know if he's implicated in this most likely not obviously cases where false confessions happen and yada y y
00:46:01
one of this exactly is not one of those and I'm just like he has a [ __ ] eating
00:46:05
grin you got to be careful of those ones yeah honestly good for her that she was
00:46:10
a to get away eventually honestly now and this is sad obviously John's mother was similarly stunned she told her
00:46:16
reporters Johnny was a good boy he had a girl they were going to be married like
00:46:21
murders do sometimes get married Theodore Krueger echoed the disbelief telling reporters he was was a nice boy
00:46:27
I always thought why I remember when he saw the body he said to me this must be the work of a Maniac that and that's the
00:46:33
other thing it's like we can look at it from this side and be like no like he did it come on but these people are
00:46:39
spending every day with him exactly these people were actually getting to know him and had again there's so many
00:46:45
people in my life that if something like this happened I'd be like what you know
00:46:50
what I mean like I can't think of one person that I'd be like oh yeah probably yeah you probably shouldn't have someone
00:46:55
in your life if you think that mom his girlfriend and somebody he worked every single day with and I can't imagine
00:47:01
working with somebody discovering a body with someone and having that experience
00:47:06
and then finding out they did it finding out that they did it and reacted in the
00:47:10
moment like so so normally like you organically yeah like oh this must be the work of a Maniac meanwhile he's the
00:47:18
maniac no that would be really yeah like that would [ __ ] you up that would [ __ ]
00:47:22
you up for a long time definitely now despite their disbelief John was arraigned the following day on charges
00:47:28
of rape and first-degree murder uh which again he confessed to the crime after the arraignment he accompanied
00:47:35
detectives back to the titon apartment where he reenacted the crime and also retraced his Escape Route with a full
00:47:42
confession and now very strong evidence the assistant prosecutor predicted a very speedy trial and announced he would
00:47:48
take the case to the grand jury and uh to a grand jury in the coming days the judge at the arraignment magistrate I
00:47:54
think it's Aurelio com uh commended the police and the prosecutor's office for their efficiency
00:48:00
and skill he said this case proves that no crime can be hidden from effective police work as a citizen of this city I
00:48:06
feel extremely proud proud of the work done by the police honestly they deserve that praise cuz this was really good
00:48:13
police work incredible yeah in his statement to the Press commissioner Valentine quote did not conceal his
00:48:19
satisfaction of the unraveling of a mystery the press and even several of his own detectives had deemed unsolvable
00:48:26
and look where they were now he noted that Not only was this his big uh the biggest murder investigation in New York
00:48:32
history to that point but he also emphasize the fact that it wouldn't have been solved without the dedication of
00:48:37
more than 65 police officers and quote the help of their technical research lab in Brooklyn and the um and of the city
00:48:46
toxicology laboratory while detectives on the case were Relentless in the pursuit of ny's
00:48:51
killer quote science Valentine told reporters quote played a deciding role Ro in the solution yeah which I knew you
00:48:58
would love I love that it was science science it was would the Killer caught the da William Dodge assured residents
00:49:05
and reporters that he had every intention of moving quickly to secure his indictment and conviction just 3
00:49:12
days after the arrest fenza's case went to a grand jury on April 25th and after reviewing the evidence and listening to
00:49:19
the testimony from eight witnesses an indictment for first-degree murder was returned in less than half an hour who
00:49:25
despite the hearing fen's attorneys quote brought strong intimations that they would seek to have him declared
00:49:31
insane and would assil the method with which his confession was obtained please yeah ridiculous they insisted despite
00:49:39
the fact that he confessed multiple times to rape and murder that he actually had nothing to do with the
00:49:43
crime and had actually been coerced into a confession I doubt it yeah me too true
00:49:48
to their word though the District Attorney's office moved very quickly surprisingly quick and Jon's trial
00:49:53
started May 20th just a little over a month after the murder occurred anticipating that fen's team would go
00:49:59
for an insanity plea Dodge's office enlisted at least four highly regarded psychiatrist to argue otherwise but to
00:50:07
their surprise fenza's lawyer Henry clobber made a different claim and again asserted that his client had nothing to
00:50:14
do with the murder he told the jury a fiend was on the loose and it was not this defendant who murdered Mrs
00:50:19
titterton as he pointed over to his client according to the defense another woman had been attacked in the area days
00:50:26
before Nancy and they intended to show that it was the same attacker and not John fiorenza who was responsible for
00:50:32
the murder it's a good tactic like that's cool why did he confess multiple times then uh cler's claim certainly
00:50:39
wouldn't have been the first time a defense lawyer had attempted to pin the blame on just a mysterious unnamed
00:50:44
person of course but the problem was that he had no evidence to support his claim and once the jury heard F eds's
00:50:52
full and very convincing confession read aloud in court he changed strategy G and
00:50:57
started building that Insanity defense I love that he was like oh I knew I was missing something was evidence my bad my
00:51:03
bad my bad and just to be safe his cross-examination of the detectives who took the confession indicated that he
00:51:10
was ready to challenge it on the grounds of coercion I think that's all he's got
00:51:14
he's playing a dirty game that's all he's got exactly much to the surprise of the prosecution though while their
00:51:19
previous defense didn't appear to be working out clobber and the rest of the defense team just seem to be keeping all
00:51:25
their options open and juggling several arguments at once yeah you got to head your B there not a great plan though to
00:51:31
to go for everything all at the same time probably not but when you got nothing you got to work with everything
00:51:36
you know exactly the insanity police seemed the best bet but they still called Jon's mother to the stand oop who
00:51:43
testified that contrary to the confession her son hadn't left the house until a little before 11:00 a.m. on the
00:51:48
morning of the murder which would have made it impossible for him to have committed the murder and still made it
00:51:53
to work by 12:30 p.m. hm which it's like yeah timelines are a little rough and I
00:51:59
don't think we should rely on his mom's version of events unfortunately if anyone's going to lie for you it's going
00:52:05
to be your mom it's your mom in support of their Insanity defense uh clubber also called John's stepfather ignazi
00:52:11
kopani to testify to Jon's unusual behavior going back many years like he didn't speak to him for 11 years
00:52:18
basically exactly in addition to hardly ever speaking at home his stepfather told the court he quote used to sit down
00:52:24
all the time in the rocking chair with his head between his hands hands when this happened he would look up and he
00:52:28
would say who's calling and we would say no one's calling we hear nothing that's
00:52:33
strange it is and his stepfather also got down from the stand and demonstrated some of Jon's other unusual behaviors he
00:52:40
said he also had a tendency to quote catch something or someone invisible who was following or calling
00:52:47
him that's weird it's weird and it's very like specific it's very it is very specific and I believe maybe it happened
00:52:54
like interesting I don't know other family members including John's aunt gave additional testimony in support of
00:53:00
what his stepfather had told the court but a lot of this testimony was undermined during cross-examination by
00:53:06
the da William Dodge who clearly established that no matter how strange Jon's Behavior might have been it
00:53:12
couldn't have been too severe because he managed to hold down a full-time job and
00:53:16
a romantic relationship for several years that's that's exactly what I was thinking is like yeah I'm that was very
00:53:24
specific what he was saying so like there could absolutely be truth to that M but it's just being weird that's the
00:53:29
thing like it's not I that's not to me I'm not like wow he's insane it's like no he he seems just strange he seems a
00:53:37
little weird exactly but not weird enough that he's not fully functioning in society and it's like if you're fully
00:53:43
functioning holding down a job having a romantic relationship then you know what you're
00:53:49
doing yeah like you know you're aware of the consequences of your actions right you exactly exactly so finally bber
00:53:56
called on Dr Albert Crane and this is where it all went wrong uhoh Albert crane was a psychiatrist from Staten
00:54:02
Island who um had examined John according to Crane Jon was a quote dementia precox case with a split
00:54:09
mentality incapable of realizing the nature and quality of his acts of course the question of his sanity wasn't the
00:54:17
issue so much as whether he knew what he was doing was wrong at the time and that
00:54:22
was something crane couldn't deny okay on cross-examination Dodge asked the psychiatrist quote if he made a
00:54:29
confession to the police and was then asked by an assistant district attorney to State the facts again and he refused
00:54:35
on the grounds that it would be used against him would you say that he knew or did not know the nature or quality of
00:54:41
his acts boom boom so what a good like just can you answer that quick question please yeah could you just let me know
00:54:47
could you remind me if that uh damn if that works out with your Insanity topn lawyering now crane who's literally
00:54:54
sitting on the stand and knew that this is exactly what had happened in the case
00:54:58
and had also sworn to tell the truth yeah had no choice but to undermine his own previous testimony he replied I
00:55:05
would say that he was keenly aware of the nature and quality of his behavior at that time oh no so the I could not
00:55:12
stop there I'd be like so why did you say was wait a second so why did you say that explain to me imagine as a
00:55:20
psychiatrist sitting on that stand and trying you're a witness for the defense and then the da gets you that easily
00:55:29
well and it's like you just said some [ __ ] like you just laid down some bull had to sit up there and own [ __ ]
00:55:38
yeah they just untie that [ __ ] with one finger also it's giving lwoods it is that's a that's a like mic drop moment
00:55:47
truly now the insanity claim was even further weekend when Dodge called on four of his own psychiatric expert
00:55:54
Witnesses all of whom testified that whether or not he experienced symptoms of mental illness John fenza knew that
00:56:00
rape and murder were wrong and that is why he went to Great Lengths to cover up his crimes exactly both yeah clearly
00:56:08
both sides rested their cases on May 27th and at 3:30 p.m. the jury retired for deliberation however after 11 hours
00:56:16
the jury remained deadlocked primarily over whether or not fenzo was insane when he committed the crime guys he
00:56:24
wasn't if he was they would have had the option of sending him to the to a state
00:56:28
hospital for the rest of his life but if he was deemed sane and found guilty he would most likely receive the death
00:56:34
penalty which I can understand why they were having a hard time with that like having that decision on your own heart
00:56:41
and head is heavy their conscience right but finally after nearly 20 hours of deliberation they did side with the
00:56:48
prosecution and they found John fenza guilty of the murder and rape of Nancy titterton I agree with that he seemed
00:56:55
pretty unfazed by the verdict but those close to him were outraged his father stood up and shouted it's not fair he's
00:57:01
crazy he should not go to the chair they should lock him up which you can understand yeah and honestly I agree
00:57:09
yeah in that sense yeah where it's like yeah that's hard it's like because I again family they know better think he
00:57:17
should be going to the death penalty because I don't really think it's you know we've already discussed how we feel
00:57:22
about that but it's like so I feel like he's got to be locked up yeah I agree yeah but on June 6th 1936 John fenza
00:57:30
appeared before the court of General Sessions for sentencing and he was formally sentenced to die in the
00:57:35
electric chair damn at the hearing his attorney continued to push his Insanity defense telling reporters he doesn't
00:57:41
even know what all this is about he was more anxious to know when I can visit him in the death house which is sad in
00:57:49
in some sense you know yeah uh under New York law though a guilty verdict in a death penalty case automatically
00:57:55
triggers an appeal MH but like in the initial trial the appeals process moved quickly not surprisingly John's attorney
00:58:02
insisted that although his client had killed Nancy he had only done so because of what his psychiatrist referred to as
00:58:08
a mental confusion I don't think so I don't think so either I don't see this I think he's possibly mentally ill but I
00:58:15
think he knew what he was doing was wrong he tried to cover it up he went to her house the day before decided that he
00:58:21
wanted to kill her came back prepared to kill her raped and killed her and and then disposed of evidence exactly and
00:58:28
then later lied about it yeah and made a at the scene he said oh a maniac must have done that that shows you he knew
00:58:37
exactly what he had done he continued to cover that's why you can't like well I'm
00:58:41
not like a fan of the death penalty it's like I I don't say like the he's crazy but no no I don't think he is I think he
00:58:50
his life in jail yeah I think he's like an like a in the negative connotation of
00:58:53
weirdo yeah he's Disturbed I think he needs go to jail forever yeah but that's it mhm like I don't think he's insane I
00:59:01
don't think there's this this whole confusion that they're claiming I think is highly exaggerated there was also
00:59:07
multiple if you rape somebody before you kill them there's multiple times at which you can stop exactly before you
00:59:13
killed them he and he didn't so he went further and further exactly he even said
00:59:17
when she tried to scream he would throttle her to stop her that's showing that he didn't want to be caught and he
00:59:24
knew he was doing something bad and he did something awful to make sure it was covered up exactly so [ __ ] this guy
00:59:30
exactly thank you and now all of a sudden I'm like [ __ ] that [ __ ] him it's the part where his family talks about
00:59:37
yeah you feel bad you feel bad for his family a family of a monster who you know has nothing to do with what they've
00:59:43
done it's like that's a whole different I I do feel bad for them yeah you have to like I they are victims to in this
00:59:51
whole thing for sure arguing in favor of upholding the death penalty though William Dodge and insisted this man is a
00:59:57
potential Maniac there is no reason for the state of New York to be cheated of the law of the enforcement of the law by
01:00:02
the pretense of insanity which I kind of agree with although again don't agree with the the death penalty yeah but I
01:00:08
think he is he's a maniac is a great way to describe him yeah he's a danger to society
01:00:15
exactly yeah he he called it said Maniac did that he knows what he is and it's like he he should be kept away from
01:00:23
society for sure I'm completely agree ultimately his appeal was denied and on January 22nd 1937 he was executed in the
01:00:32
electric chair at sing Singh prison just prior to his death he exclaimed you don't know all I've been through in this
01:00:37
place I don't know why they don't give me a chance I know cuz you red and murdered somebody me I know yeah we all
01:00:44
know you did something [ __ ] terrible like God you you can't get a chance after give me a chance can can you give
01:00:50
Nancy a chance NOP you can't no you can't because raped and murdered her exactly and then tried to cover up and
01:00:56
lie about it so [ __ ] you John such a wild case from start to finish though and the it the the key star here is the
01:01:05
the detective work like yes for the it's early 1930s and they had all this Advanced not Advanced but at the time
01:01:12
very Advanced fingerprint technology and just the dedication of people who went back to the scene I I found the the
01:01:20
investigation part of this so interesting oh I think it's amazing like what an what an amazing case like in
01:01:26
when on the police side of it and what a tragic case on the crime side of it like
01:01:32
Nancy you just feel like holy [ __ ] yeah she was just getting her career off the
01:01:37
ground and she was just having a delivery she's just home we all get deliveries all the time you let someone
01:01:44
come into your home and plop down a piece of furniture and you hope they're not there for nefarious reasons like
01:01:51
it's that's awful I know and her poor husband too like stumbling home to that awful very very tragic case but very
01:01:59
very uh interesting on the investigation side like for but with all that being said we hope you keep listening and we
01:02:06
hope you keep it weird but not so weird that when you deliver something to somebody's house you decide that you're
01:02:12
going to rape and murder them because ew that's really [ __ ] terrible and you should stop yourself from doing things
01:02:16
like that bye don't be a dick self-control is important [Music] [Music] [Music]