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Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. [Music] >> Hey, what's up? Hi. How you doing?
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>> How you doing? >> How you doing? as Lil Wayne, but you would not know that. I did not know
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that. I just thought of Laura Durn. I shortened it a little bit to be more respectful to my listeners.
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>> You guys are dumb and old. >> Just kidding. Somebody better get mad at her about
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that. >> I'm America's sweetheart. >> Just kidding. >> I'm just kidding. Um, no, we were just
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we were just talking happy things because we have lots of happy things happening
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>> and we were saying how we noticed that a lot of people were saying that they've
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noticed recently that we're like a little unhinged and like >> like kind of like old morbid. And I got
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to tell you, one, I'm really happy that you noticed that. And two, >> I feel like unhinged happy.
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>> It's like Stella got her how Stella got her groove back. It only took a few years.
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>> I'm feeling it. you know, it's it's quick for you to lose your groove. It's very quick to lose your groove. Um, but
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yeah, when you when your when your groove gets punched in the jaw, it's easy to lose it. But
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>> yeah, then you can't shake your groove thing. It's like a lot happens when when
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your groove is affected. >> It's true. >> And you just have to come back from it
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slowly but surely. And here we are. I think we're almost back >> to our groove. >> Yeah, we're almost back.
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>> Um, it's feeling really good, though. >> Seriously. Okay, we were not on the same page
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there, but yeah, and it's feeling seriously good >> and groovy. Feeling both of those things.
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>> Our telepathy was uh not fully turned on at that point in time. >> No, it's later in the day
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>> and we've been doing some things, so we've been busy. >> It's true. >> So, I don't think I told you guys how
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awesome the Boston Ghost show was. It was [ __ ] rad. Hell yeah, brother. >> It was so good. It was at um TD Garden.
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Um, and I'd never been to a show there before. >> You really have never been to a show
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there? >> I had been to Taking You to see High School Musical on Ice there. >> [ __ ] yeah, we saw that. So, what do you
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mean you never saw a show there? >> What do you mean? >> I guess I have seen a show there.
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>> Was that not an experience for you? >> It was. It was a good experience. But Ghost was also really great.
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>> Yeah, that's a little more up. >> And I met a lot of you at the Boston show. So, I just wanted to make sure you
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guys knew that. That was [ __ ] awesome meeting you. In fact, I was right behind
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a couple of people, a couple of listeners. I was right next to a couple of listeners and it was great.
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>> Yay. I loved it. And again, if you have a chance to go to a ghost ritual, go to
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one. That's Yeah, I like that they call them rituals. >> Yeah, they call them rituals. I There
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was There was So there was a part of me that said, "Jump on a train and go to New York the next day." But I said,
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"Responsibilities, Elena." John was like, "Do it. You should go." And I was like, "No,
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>> we're on a we're on a a floating rock in space. If you want to disregard your
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responsibilities, you got to do it. probably should have. >> It's your stellium in Capricorn that
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won't allow you. But we'll work on it. >> Yeah, we'll work on that. >> You also have a stellium in Sagittarius,
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which is very like um >> let's go >> let's go travel, let's go see the world. But I have to see what house it is in
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for you. In case you didn't know, I'm taking an astrology class and I'm getting a lot more well-versed in
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astrology. I'm learning about the houses now. >> I'm pretty I'm pretty impressed, I got
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to say. >> Thank you. But another concert we didn't tell them about, we took Elena's mom, my
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grandma. >> Oh my god. Yeah. >> We took Ma to go see Rod Stewart and we didn't know what to expect. Like I like
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a couple Rod Stewart songs, but I don't know a ton of them. >> Yeah. >> And I was just like, what is this going
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to be like? And I grew up with my my mom and my dad, but like my mom my mom loves
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Rod Stewart. Like >> she thinks he's sexy. >> Yeah. She she's like Rod Stewart is her
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like Tobias for like it's like so I was like >> adore Harry Styles. >> Exactly. So I I grew up listening to her
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to Harry Styles to Ron Stewart a lot. Like I know all the songs. I It's very nostalgic for me. She just loved it. My
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dad loves them too. So it's just a fun thing. >> And yeah, but we didn't really know. I
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was like what what do I expect from a Rod Stewart concert? And it's his like farewell tour, too.
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>> So, we we took her to it because, you know, he's it's his farewell tour. >> It was one of the best [ __ ] concerts
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I've ever been to. >> Rod Stewart goes hard. >> Puts on a [ __ ] And I hate telling you this now because it's his
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farewell tour. >> Well, you know what? He's still >> have a lot of chances to see him again,
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but if you can, if he's coming near you, I'm telling you, go. >> What did we learn? What did we learn?
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Anything for Rod. Anything for Ron? That's what we learned that night. >> We learned that right away. That song
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where he's like, "Do you think I'm sexy?" or whatever. >> If you want my body and you think I'm
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sexy. >> I always forget that the ne next part is I sang it wrong. >> I thought it said something about sugar
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babies. You did. >> It doesn't. >> Rod Stewart's not like that. >> No, he's not.
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>> But during that song in like on the side thing, it just said sexy. >> Sexy. And I thought that was the
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funniest [ __ ] thing in the world. He's still moving around. He's grooving. He had five costume changes.
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>> Yeah. Like not even just like like a minimal costume change. Head to toe, new
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shoes, soup to nuts. He had new everything, you know, beyond. >> It was crazy. >> He had and his voice sounds phenomenal.
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I know. Like if you're if you're like a Jenzie right now, you're like, "What the
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[ __ ] are you talking about?" >> You better discover Rod Stewart. Go discover Rod Stewart.
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>> Anything for Rod. >> And the other thing is like your that song Do You Think I'm Sexy is going to
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get caught in your head for years to come. >> It's It transcends time and space.
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>> Like we have been It's in John's head now, too. So like the two of us, but like when we're always around the kids,
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so like we can't just be like, "Do I have feel?" So both of us are just being like
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and it's I I wouldn't have it any other way. >> It's a great So that's what we learned
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in the last couple weeks is that Rod Stewart [ __ ] puts on a banger of a show and I would do it again in a
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second. >> Yeah. I wish I knew sooner. >> Yeah. [ __ ] But at least we got to see
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him. >> I know. And Maggie May Live was the coolest thing I've ever seen cuz I've
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loved that song forever. >> Infatuation. Great song. infatuation. >> Oh yes. So good.
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>> So good. >> It was And yeah, it was I have so much to say about it, but see for yourself.
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>> Go see Rob. >> Go to Abu Dhabi. I think that's where he's ending it in Abu Dhabi.
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>> Um but that man is crazy. He's 80 years old going everywhere and he's just shaking his bum on his butt.
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>> But yeah, great. Um and again, we have some really fun stuff coming up with the
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rewatcher. If you're not if you're not on that train yet, I highly recommend you get on that train. Well, we should
00:07:11
probably say too, and don't worry, we're going to get to the case, but this is actually like business. Um, we announced
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it on the rewatcher that we are going to be doing True Blood for the next season.
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>> Next season. So, we're finishing up Buffy. I think we're probably going to be done with Buffy like around
00:07:25
Octoberish. >> Yeah, in the fall. >> Yeah, like in the fall. >> Um, >> around that time. Don't quote me.
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>> Yeah, I don't know. But, >> but then we're going to True Blood. >> True Blood. We're starting it from the
00:07:33
beginning and it's going to be so much fun. >> And I have never seen a single episode
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with Buffy. I'd seen like an episode or two. >> Not much. >> Not a single episode of True Blood.
00:07:43
Nothing. >> She has no idea what she's in for. So So Sh. >> Yeah. And you've seen it you've seen it
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through once. >> Yeah, I've seen it through once, but I I haven't rewatched. >> But then Mikey, who produces Morbid and
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is a co-host on Rewatcher, has seen it like a bunch. So it's it's really staying true to the theme if you're
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already a Rewatcher that you know. >> And we have a really cool little surprise that we'll let you know soon
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about that. God, literally so exciting. >> Life life has been I just want to like
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shout out to the the big you the big universe up there. She's she's bestowing gifts.
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>> Yeah, life is lifing lately. So, I really appreciate that. >> Um but yeah, now that we've just said
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life is lifing and the universe is great and everything's been wonderful. Um >> sorry, I'm about to take you take you
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down. This is going to be a long one. Yeah. Uh, I was going to split this into four parts, but I when I was looking at
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them, it one it didn't feel like there was a natural way to split it that way. Yeah.
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>> Just because they're long. That was the only reason. Um, and it felt like part
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two would have been >> too dark and depressing and not any kind of like forward momentum if I if I had
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just split it into like another part. >> Or you mean part three would have been part? Yeah. Or no, part two would have
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if I if I had split part two into like another part, it would have two and three would have been abysmal.
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>> A bunch of victims being found in awful awful ways and there wouldn't have been
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any kind of light at the end of the tunnel. >> So that's why these are a little longer.
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Hopefully you guys are cool with that. I just didn't want to split it. Split it,
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you know. >> Uh I felt better this way. So this is going to be kind of a long episode, but
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>> it's the end. We're going to get to some kind of resolution >> at the end of this. Um, when we last
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left you guys, we had tacked on even more victims. They had talked to Randy Craft. They had brought him in for at
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least a couple of um victims that they were suspecting him of being involved with, but they didn't have anything to
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hold him on. So, they just had to let him go >> and he was free to continue to keep
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going. >> And he kept going. >> Yeah. So, while investigators in Los Angeles were just struggling to
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determine which victims belonged with which killer at this point because there's so many and they're happening so
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fast, uh 1980 was off to kind of a great start for Randy Craft. >> Really, >> he and his new boyfriend Jeff Seelig had
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bought a small house in Long Beach and Jeff's small candy business was doing well.
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>> Wait, wasn't his last boyfriend's name Jeff? Does he have a thing for Jeff's?
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>> Jeff. Maybe he has a thing for Jeff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's interesting. If I I feel
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like it was started with a J for sure. >> So Randy himself had also gotten back on
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his feet in, you know, a career sense. He found work as a processor with Lear Seagler Industries. Uh he had even begun
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considering enrolling in University of Southern California's MBA program. Wow. >> Uh remember, we're like, whoa, look at
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that. And I'm like, wait, he just he's murdered at least 18 people. Yeah. Um that would have allowed him to further
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climb up the corporate ladder if he was getting an MBA. So, uh, and he had actually even started getting a little
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active in politics again. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. Like speaking out on issues and
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all that stuff. One of the perks of Craft's new job with Lear Seagler was that he had like business trips every
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once in a while and they would kind of expense them for him. And so that meant he got to explore that interest of his,
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which he did want to travel more. Uh, but it was a little limited. In the summer of 1980, Craft was assigned his
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first outofstate job on a project with Peerless Trailers, and that was going to be in the neighboring state of Oregon.
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So, he was in Salem, Oregon. And that's when the news broke in California that authorities had arrested William Bonan,
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the man they believed to be the freeway killer. >> Oh, >> we've talked about William Bonan before.
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>> We sure have. Um, after he was arrested, Bonan confessed to sexually assaulting,
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torturing, and strangling 14 young men and boys. Um, but he was suspected of at least seven additional murders.
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>> He was even believed to have had an accomplice for the majority of his murders, which fit with what
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investigators knew or at least suspected about many of the murders in Southern California.
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>> Even his active period matched that of Randy Crafts, which was like 1968 to 1980. The thing was, William Bonan was
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the man the press referred to as the freeway killer. But unbeknownst to just about everybody in Southern California,
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he was not the only one strangling young men and dumping their bodies alongside the highway.
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>> They thought they got him. >> Okay. >> With his many of his crimes temporarily
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assigned to William Bonnan. Now, Randy Craft felt less restricted cuz he was like, well, he's getting blamed for him.
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>> He's taking the fall. So, and once again, he was free to pursue his really violent fantasies without any hesitation
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or restriction. In the early morning hours of July 18th, 1980, a man hauling beans to a canery in Salem, Oregon,
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discovered the nude body of 17-year-old Michael Shauno Fallon. At the time of his death, uh Michael had been on a solo
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hiking trip before he was going to be starting his first year of college in the fall. Uh-huh.
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>> The driver had stopped that morning because he thought he saw a large stuffed animal in the road.
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>> But when he got out of the car and approached what he thought was a stuffed animal, he discovered that it was a
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body. Um, Ofallen's hands were tied behind his back with shoelaces, which were secured to a second set of laces
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that bound his ankles together. So, he was like hog tied. >> Yeah. >> Um, this is very graphic. We said this in
00:13:22
the first two episodes. There's a lot of graphic brutality in this. There was also a shoelace tied around his scrotum
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and secured to the bindings around his ankles. >> Oh wow. The medical examiner listed
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death as um being caused by strangulation, but also noted that he did have high levels of Valium and
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Tylenol in his system at the time of his death >> becoming a thing. >> Yeah. And he had consumed at least one
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or two beers. Um, in their interviews with his mother, investigators learned that he had left home a few weeks
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earlier and was intent on seeing parts of Canada before starting school in the fall. He had wanted to travel light, so
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he brought only like the basic necessities he needed for can camping, like a camera. Um, the camera would be
00:14:05
found among the evidence confiscated from Craft's home a few years later. So, he took the camera.
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>> He was also known to have been hitchhiking for a lot of his trip because again, it was that time period
00:14:16
where it was really not a big deal. Mhm. Just one day after Ofallen's body was discovered in Salem, police in the
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nearby town of Woodburn found another body. >> Jesus. >> The day after, this was the body of
00:14:28
30-year-old Larry Parks just off the side of the highway. Like many of the other victims, Parks's body was fully
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clothed, but he was missing his belt and his shoelaces. His cause of death was listed as ligature strangulation, but
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the medical examiner also saw that there was high levels of Valium and over-the-counter pain relievers in his
00:14:47
system at the time of death. At the end of July, Randy, who had been in Oregon, >> Uhhuh.
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>> returned to Long Beach. Just one month later, another body was discovered near.
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>> Yeah. What this did was it effectively undermined the certainty investigators
00:15:04
felt at having caught the man responsible for strangulation deaths in Southern California, right? Because in
00:15:10
Oregon, they could at least say like maybe this is someone else. Now we're back in Southern California.
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>> On the morning of September 3rd, 1980, a group of boys playing near the El Toro
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Air Base found the body of 19-year-old Marine Robert Logins Jr. He was wrapped in a plastic bag and dumped at the end
00:15:28
of a dead end street. Um he had been found in the fetal position and was bound at the wrists and ankles which
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feels a little this is like a newer kind of thing. >> Um the only article of clothing found
00:15:39
with his body was a single sock. Um and the medical examiner did theorize that it had been inserted into the victim at
00:15:47
one point and be had become dislodged due to advanced decomposition. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The medical examiner estimated
00:15:56
that the body had been in the location for nearly a week. >> Wow. which made identifying the exact
00:16:00
cause of death pretty impossible. >> Yeah, remember this is California. Exactly.
00:16:04
>> Yeah. As best as he could tell, the pathologist figured the most likely cause of death was asphixxia by
00:16:10
strangulation, but indicated that smothering could also have been the cause. >> Oh, wow.
00:16:14
>> Um, at the time of death, Logan's blood alcohol level was quite high. It was 0.25. Um, there was also high levels of
00:16:21
antihistamines in his system, which that was with another victim. antihistamines
00:16:26
were a thing. >> Although it seemed less likely than strangulation, the Emmy acknowledged
00:16:30
that the combination of alcohol and drugs could have contributed to the death. >> Um, but again, he wasn't sure. Robert
00:16:39
was last seen on the night of August 22nd. Uh, he and three friends had left the base. They were just going out for a
00:16:44
night of drinking. According to the three men he was with that evening, they had found a spot near the beach where
00:16:49
they passed around a bottle of Soo. >> Mhm. >> Um, Southern Comfort. When that was
00:16:54
gone, the group visited a liquor store near the Huntington Beach pier. And at that point, Logan said he wanted to
00:17:00
sleep on the beach and walked off. >> Yeah. >> His friends tried to get him back to the
00:17:04
car to return to the base, but they were unsuccessful. He just wasn't going to go.
00:17:08
>> Yeah. >> The following morning, when Logans failed to show up for work, they went
00:17:11
out looking for him, but they couldn't find any evidence of him anywhere. A few months later, in the spring of 1981,
00:17:18
Craft was sent back to Oregon. On the morning of April 10th, police in Gan, Oregon, received a report about a body
00:17:26
that was discovered alongside Interstate 5. When they got to the scene, investigators were shocked at the level
00:17:33
of violence that this victim suffered. The victim was 17-year-old Michael Cluck. 17, just a baby.
00:17:40
>> When he was discovered, Clark's body was still warm, indicating that this had
00:17:45
happened pretty recently. >> That's happening a lot more recently. >> So scary. Yeah, like recently in the
00:17:49
case, >> he was nude from the waist down and he had been sexually assaulted. Um, this is
00:17:55
just like graphic. According to the autopsy, his death resulted, quote, from 16 blunt forced wounds to the back of
00:18:03
the head which had caved in the victim's skull. >> Oh my god. >> When the result of toxicology came back,
00:18:09
they showed large amounts of antihistamines, painkillers, and tranquilizers in his system, and he had
00:18:14
a blood alcohol level of 009. According to his mother, Michael had left home in Kent, Washington the day before with the
00:18:23
intention of hitchhiking to Bakersfield, California to get a job. Oh. >> Under the circumstances, investigators
00:18:29
theorized that he had been picked up by his killer while hitchhiking, and the man gave him a beer, drugged him,
00:18:34
assaulted him, and murdered him. >> Yeah. >> At the same time that investigators were
00:18:38
searching the scene um for evidence, Randy Craft visited the emergency room in Tolatin, Oregon. Uh, he was looking
00:18:45
to get treatment for a badly bruised foot. >> Huh. >> He told the emergency room doctor that
00:18:50
he had badly injured his foot around 3:00 a.m. while moving around his hotel room barefoot in the dark, trying to
00:18:56
reach the television so he could watch the space shuttle launch. >> I feel like you wouldn't injure your
00:19:01
foot that badly in that scenario. It would take several more years, but eventually Craft would be connected to
00:19:08
the victim when investigators found Kluck's shaving kit under some clothes in a dresser at Craft's home. Wow. He
00:19:14
kept a lot. Yeah, he did. Now, in keeping with his new pattern, the killings in and around Long Beach
00:19:21
stopped when Craft was in Oregon, and they started again once he returned to California.
00:19:26
Then, following the murder of Michael Cluck and Gan, they seem to stop again without explanation. Eventually, these
00:19:33
breaks in the frequency of the murders would be attributed to his domestic routines and successes. Apparently, like
00:19:40
when things were going well in his life and he was experiencing less stress, there were fewer murders. And when
00:19:45
things in his romantic life were positive, there appeared to be less of an impulse to commit murders.
00:19:50
>> Yep. For instance, like the large break in activity following the murder of Mark
00:19:54
Hall in December 1975 was attributed uh eventually to Craft having begun his relationship with Jeff Seelig. You were
00:20:02
correct. I was >> around that time. >> While his personal successes were definitely a factor, the opposite was
00:20:08
unfortunately also true. >> Yeah. >> Throughout the latter half of 1981, things between Craft and Seague appeared
00:20:15
to have been going well. But by early 1982, they had hit a rough patch in their relationship and began seeing a
00:20:21
therapist in late June. That's when the murders began again. >> Yep. >> So, as soon as it starts going downhill,
00:20:27
he's mad. Yeah. On July 29th, 1982, an employee from the California Department of Transportation was sent to
00:20:34
investigate reports of a strong, very unpleasant odor near the Hollywood Freeway in Echo Park. When they got to
00:20:41
the location, they did discover a body. That of 13year-old Raymond Davis. >> Oh my god. 13.
00:20:50
>> That's his youngest victim so far, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Raymond Davis was laying just off the
00:20:55
road by the Rampart Boulevard exit ramp. His wrists and ankles were tied behind his back with a shoelace similar to that
00:21:02
of the other victims, and he had been strangled. Raymond Davis was from Pittsburgh,
00:21:07
California, nearly 400 miles north of Los Angeles, and had come to the area to visit his mother for the summer months.
00:21:14
On the night of June 17th, he had left his house. He told his mom he was going to visit a friend and then was never
00:21:20
seen or heard from again. Davis told reporter his mother told reporters he had a new friend. He was always playing
00:21:26
with him. I told him I wanted to know where he lived and a phone number, but her son never gave her the information.
00:21:31
For reasons that remain unclear, there were also reports that Davis had gone out that evening to look for a lost dog.
00:21:38
Okay, >> so I'm not sure what that's about. To the absolute horror of the person who
00:21:44
found this body, the transit worker, about 100 ft from where Davis's body was lying, there was a second body. The
00:21:52
second body was 16-year-old Robert Aila Jr. He had been reported missing about a
00:21:57
week earlier. >> They're like little kids. What the [ __ ] >> Children. Robert had been strangled to
00:22:03
death with a length of wire. And while Davis's body had been in that location for more than a month and was in an
00:22:09
advanced state of decomposition, uh, Robert was believed to have been there since July 21st. Although there
00:22:15
was no evidence that the two boys knew one another, it seemed pretty unlikely that they had been placed in the same
00:22:20
location by coincidence. Yeah. >> And investigators acknowledged that they quote believed one suspect killed both
00:22:26
youths. >> Yeah. Now, in late November 1982, Craft was sent back to Oregon to continue
00:22:32
working on the project, and the killing continued once he got there. In the early morning hours of November 24th,
00:22:38
the body of 26-year-old Bryant Witcher was discovered alongside a residential road um that was kind of parallel to
00:22:45
Interstate 5 in Wilsonville. Um this was a town that was like just outside of Salem where he was hunting before. Yeah.
00:22:52
Witcher was dressed in a pair of pants um and he only pants and he was missing his belt. It was clear from the scrapes
00:22:59
on his body he had been thrown from a slowmoving vehicle and there was obvious liature marks around his neck.
00:23:05
>> His cause of death was listed asphyxiation but he also had a pretty high blood alcohol level and there was a
00:23:11
large amount of say it with me now volume in his system. >> I didn't know if it was going to be
00:23:17
antihistamines volume Tylenol all over the place. According to his friend Earl Davis, Brian was last seen
00:23:24
on November 23rd, the day before, wearing distinctive clothing that Davis had given him, including a velour
00:23:30
pullover jacket. At the time of Witcher's disappearance and death, Randy Craft was known to be working in nearby
00:23:36
Towalitin, Oregon. And when investigators searched Craft's home after he was arrested later, Witcher's
00:23:42
velour jacket was discovered in the garage. >> Jeez, it's really insane how much he
00:23:47
kept from these victims. like something from everybody. On the night of December
00:23:51
9th, just two weeks after Witcher's murder, the body of 19-year-old Lance Tags was discovered on the side of
00:23:57
Interstate 5 in Tiger, Oregon. That's less than a quarter mile from the spot where Brian Witcher's body was found.
00:24:04
>> Right. The previous evening, Tags had been seen leaving his house carrying a nylon tote bag with um a town in
00:24:10
Hawaii's name printed on the side. >> Okay. >> Uh but when he was found, the bag was
00:24:15
nowhere to be seen. Huh? At the time, he was dressed in a shirt and swim shorts,
00:24:19
but he was missing his shoes and socks. It also appeared like he had been redressed. According to the autopsy,
00:24:26
Tags' cause of death was asphixxiation with which was the result of an orange gym sock having been shoved down his
00:24:34
throat. >> Jesus. >> While he was alive, he shoved an orange gym sock down his throat and he is
00:24:40
fixiated. At the time of death, his blood blood alcohol level was 0.07 and there was a
00:24:46
large amount of value in his system. >> During this period, Craft was known to have been in the area working for Lear
00:24:54
Seagler. And based on an expense report he submitted to the company for reimbursement, they were able to confirm
00:25:00
that. >> Boom. >> Also, when a detective searchcraft's home the following year after he was
00:25:05
arrested, Tag's nylon gym bag was discovered among his belongings. Again, another one.
00:25:10
>> Jesus. A week later on December 18th, another body was discovered on the side
00:25:17
of a residential road adjacent to I-5. It was that of 29-year-old an Anthony Syl Vera. According to Syla's wife,
00:25:25
Anthony, who was in the National Guard, had left home on December 4th to travel to Medford for guard duty. The couple
00:25:32
didn't have a car, so Anthony decided to hitchhike. Because the body was in an advanced state of decomposition, the ME
00:25:38
was unable to give a definitive cause of death, but the ME was confident that the
00:25:44
most likely cause of death was asphyxiation because that was supported by the very obvious liature mark around
00:25:49
his neck. >> Yeah, >> he couldn't deduce it, >> right? >> The victim had also been sexually
00:25:53
assaulted and was subjected to various other forms of torture before being killed.
00:25:58
>> The results of this toxicology report showed a blood alcohol level of 23 and there was a lot of volume in his system.
00:26:05
Yeah. How is he getting all this volume as well? I'm like, >> do you know what I was thinking
00:26:09
actually? And I almost said it, but I wonder if when he cuz you've also said that there were like antihistamines
00:26:15
present in a lot of people's systems. Isn't benadryil an antihistamine? >> I think so.
00:26:19
>> And benadryil like really has like drowsy calming effects. I wonder if when he was running low on volume,
00:26:25
>> he would use the antihistamines. >> He'd give people large doses of that. Yeah,
00:26:28
>> I think that's a valid uh theory cuz I think it definitely has similar effects
00:26:33
at the very least. >> Yeah. Large amount. >> That's the thing. I think in large amounts.
00:26:38
>> So the same day that Anthony went missing, Randy Craft drove from Oregon to Seattle to visit his friend Gary
00:26:44
Newell. The next year, in interviews with investigators, Gary Newell recalled that non not long after arriving at his
00:26:51
house, Craft went out to the rental car. And when he returned, he was wearing an
00:26:55
army style jacket. >> Huh. >> The type that Anthony Syla was reported to have been wearing on the day he left
00:27:02
his house. He put this man's jacket on >> after brutally murdering and torturing
00:27:08
him. >> Because it had been more than a year, Newell couldn't be certain, but he told
00:27:12
the detectives that the name on the jacket began with S and was a quote unquote Hispanic sounding name.
00:27:18
>> Huh? >> Like, what the [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> During the visit, Craft also mentioned
00:27:24
to Newell that after he was done in Oregon, the company was sending him to Grand Rapids, Michigan. So he was going
00:27:30
to be starting a whole new place killing people. Craft arrived in Grand Rapids on
00:27:34
December 5th to attend a seminar. >> Um he arrived at the Amway Grand Plaza Hotel. And at the time there was also a
00:27:42
large agricultural conference being held at the hotel and going to that conference was a 20year-old man named
00:27:49
Christopher Shonburn and his 24year-old cousin Dennis Alt. When craft seminar ended on December 7th, he and a co-orker
00:27:58
had dinner together and then visited the hotel bar. That's where they met and then spent about an hour talking to
00:28:04
Christopher and Dennis. Then Craft's coworker left after midnight and he was alone with the two of them. Also in
00:28:12
attendance at the agricultural conference was Dennis Alt's cousin Thomas, who was in the bar with them
00:28:17
that evening. According to Thomas, Dennis had been drinking heavily and asked if Thomas would drive him around
00:28:24
11 p.m. back to where he needed to go. Thomas agreed, but wanted to talk with some friends and buy a round of drinks
00:28:30
before they left. So, he stepped away and so he left Christopher and Dennis at the bar with Randy.
00:28:37
>> Yeah. >> When he returned a short time later, there were nowhere to be seen. >> Everyone was gone.
00:28:41
>> So, Thomas assumed they'd gone back to their hotel room. >> Yeah. Craft checked out of the hotel the
00:28:46
following morning and returned to Oregon. The next day, December 9th, the bodies of Dennis Alt and Christopher
00:28:53
were discovered about 5 ft from a rural road about 9 miles from the Amway Grand Plaza Hotel.
00:28:59
>> And remember, these are two full grown men. >> Yeah. >> Like what? That's >> accomplice potentially.
00:29:07
>> Who is it? >> Like all was fully dressed but his pants were unbuttoned. Um, and he was exposed
00:29:14
and his boots were missing. When the autopsy was conducted, the medical examiner found high levels of volume in
00:29:20
his blood and a blood alcohol level of twice the legal limit. Um, Alt's cause of death was listed as a asphixia by
00:29:27
choking, which was supported by linear pressure marks discovered on his neck. Jeez. Christopher was nude with no signs
00:29:34
of his clothing anywhere. Like Alt, he had also been strangled leading to asphixxiation. He had a lot of volume in
00:29:40
his system and a blood alcohol level of.116. There was also evidence that at least
00:29:46
Christopher had been tortured uh including having an Amway grand branded ballpoint pen inserted into his urethra
00:29:55
which caused quote extensive hemorrhaging. I would think as with many of the other victims clothing and
00:30:01
personal belongings belonging to both of these victims would later be found in Craft's home. You also, and I don't know
00:30:08
why I just thought of it, but you also wonder where he did all of these things to people because he's doing these
00:30:13
things while they're still alive. >> Exactly. >> So, you would think that there would be
00:30:18
>> do it too. >> That's a like where is he doing this where nobody's hearing something, but
00:30:22
then I guess he's getting people near sedation sort of. So, >> so maybe I think that's the key.
00:30:28
>> Yeah. >> Is this >> But you still think that like people must hear something and like see
00:30:34
something weird. Where is he taking them to do this? >> It he must take them like deep into the
00:30:38
woods and then cuz he obviously moves a lot of the bodies. >> It's so >> But then there's been a couple bodies
00:30:44
that have been discovered in the woods. So I wonder if maybe >> he just couldn't move them or he didn't
00:30:48
have his accomplice during those left. >> That's what that's usually what he does.
00:30:53
Maybe bring them out to the woods and goes from there. >> It's horrific. >> It is.
00:30:58
>> Now once he was back in Oregon, Craft killed Lance Tags. Then he returned to California shortly after. assuming he'd
00:31:05
gotten away with yet another murder. Yeah. So, he was just on a little spree, just going home. Now, while it was true
00:31:12
that he had at least temporarily gotten away with it, investigators in Oregon had started to see connections between
00:31:17
the victims found along the side of the road. So, they were putting them together now.
00:31:21
>> Yeah. Obviously, >> um given the pattern with which the m murders occurred and the fact that the
00:31:26
bodies were found again alongside the road, they theorized their killer was some kind of salesman or other
00:31:32
professional who traveled to the state with some kind of consistency. >> Yeah. >> Since the trip seemed to be more
00:31:38
frequent, they further theorized that the killer was probably coming from a nearby state like Washington or
00:31:44
California. So, we're starting to close in a little. Operating on that assumption, detectives in Oregon put out
00:31:50
a call to the law enforcement agencies in those states and quickly received a response from detectives in Los Angeles.
00:31:56
>> Wouldn't you know it, >> they felt that the Oregon murders bore a remarkable similarity to the large
00:32:02
number of victims from the previous 10 [ __ ] years. >> Yep. 10 years. >> Yeah. Just going for it. Once he was
00:32:10
back in Long Beach, Randy wasted little time getting back into his routine. On the morning of January 27th, 1983, a
00:32:19
California Transit employee, those poor California Transit employees, >> he discovered the body of 21-year-old
00:32:25
Eric Church alongside the Seventh Street offramp near Seal Beach where some of the other victims were found. That's why
00:32:30
it sounds familiar, >> right? >> Church was fully dressed, not wearing any shoes. Unlike some of the other
00:32:36
victims, however, it looks like the killer had come to a skidding stop at the location where he was found rather
00:32:42
than pushing him from a moving car. Okay. >> Which is just interesting. >> Yeah, it is.
00:32:46
>> During the autopsy, the ME found ligature marks around his wrists, ankles, and neck and determined the
00:32:51
cause of death was asphixxia from strangulation. He couldn't say with certainty, but the medical examiner also
00:32:57
noted that Church had likely been sexually assaulted. His blood alcohol level was within the legal limit, and
00:33:03
there was a large amount of volume discovered in his system, which the medical examiner described as a quote
00:33:08
potentially fatal amount that would have put him in a mild to moderate coma. >> Wow. Yeah.
00:33:14
Having gotten away with multiple murders for more than a decade, Randy Craft was
00:33:19
becoming much more brazen with his behavior. Not only were victims showing up with much increased frequency at this
00:33:26
point. He's just one after the other, but he's also demonstrated a capacity for handling more than one victim at a
00:33:32
time, which is horrifying. Grown men like this, >> that's crazy to me. Um especially and
00:33:40
again these are able like these are like strong like you know not like you know these are grown ass men.
00:33:46
>> Yes. He's only praying on children. He has done that in the past but it's not
00:33:50
>> but he's not just going after like 13year-olds like all all the time. It's like
00:33:54
>> but you have to wonder if that was when he had an accomplice with him. >> Yeah. Cuz it's like
00:33:58
>> when he's going after multiple >> the Chris and Christopher and Dennis at the hotel. Yeah.
00:34:03
>> They were in their 20s. >> Yeah. Like they're they're like grown men and he that's the one that he did
00:34:08
the two. >> But then you think about the fact that he's drugging them. >> Yeah. >> He's drugging them and getting them
00:34:13
super drunk. >> That's your answer right there. Like it seems shocking and it is.
00:34:18
>> But it's like when you really think about it, the fact that there's volume found in high amounts in all of these
00:34:23
cases, they are being incapacitated. So whether they're strong grown men or not,
00:34:30
it really kind of is negates that >> because also think about the fact that at least one of these people victims has
00:34:36
been found with enough volume to put them in a coma. >> In a moderate mild to moderate coma
00:34:41
>> like that clearly I think that was probably like accidental that he gave that much
00:34:45
>> like over overdid it. >> Yeah. >> So just two weeks after the murder of Eric Church, Craft was out on the
00:34:51
streets again looking for another victim. So he is escalating. I feel like we have never covered somebody who has
00:34:57
gone this long, this hard this long. >> Cuz I'm sitting here being like, "It's got to end. It's got to end."
00:35:05
>> Now, in the early morning hours of February 12th, 18-year-old Jeffrey Nelson knocked on the door of the home
00:35:10
of his friend Bryce Wilson in the town of Cypress, which is just outside of LA. Wilson's mother answered the door and
00:35:17
said Bryce was sleeping and she wasn't able to get him out of bed. So Nelson left in the company of his friend,
00:35:22
20-year-old Roger Dval. This was the last time anyone saw either young man alive. Later that morning, LAPD officer
00:35:30
Donald uh Beckelder was on his way to work when he spotted Jeffrey Nelson's nude body lying beside the uh ramp in
00:35:38
Long Beach. When the detective got out of his car to investigate, he noticed Nelson's foot move slightly. Oh no.
00:35:47
Indicating that he was alive. The officer jumped back into his car and drove to the nearest phone booth he
00:35:53
could find to call emergency services, but by the time they arrived at the scene, they were unable to find Nelson's
00:35:59
pulse or detect any respiration. So sad. It's unclear whether he was still alive
00:36:04
when he was discovered. The autopsy indicates that Nelson was dead when he was dumped from the vehicle. So, I don't
00:36:11
know if he just thought he saw that or what. >> By that time, this was just a very
00:36:15
familiar scene at this point. Yeah, >> there were tire marks on the pavement. Looked like the killer had skidded to a
00:36:20
stop before dumping the body. There were ligature marks around his neck, which would later be associated with his cause
00:36:26
of death, esphyxiation from ligature strangulation. There was liature marks around his right wrist, and he had um
00:36:33
had his genitals cut off, which the Emmy believed had occurred after death. In this scenario,
00:36:40
>> witnesses told investigators that on the night they went missing, neither Nelson
00:36:44
nor Dval had been drinking or taking any drugs. But when the autopsy was conducted, the Emmy noted that Nelson's
00:36:51
blood alcohol level was.14. >> Wow, that's high. >> And he had Valium and the blood pressure
00:36:56
medication propanol, I think it's called, in his system. It's for hypertension. Hypert.
00:37:01
>> Why would he give him that? >> Um, not really sure, but Well, it's a beta blocker. I was just going to say
00:37:08
according to the toxicologist, the combo of these drugs as well would have made him very, very noticeably sedated and
00:37:15
possibly caused him to fall asleep. >> Yeah. >> Now, in their investigation of the
00:37:18
scene, crime scene texts discovered two distinct fibers that connected Nelson to
00:37:23
the other victims. Uh cuz remember, there was a couple of victims where they did find fiber on them. They just didn't
00:37:29
have anything to compare it to, >> right? The first a single maroon fiber was determined to have come from the
00:37:35
socks of the previous victim, Eric Church. >> Oh. >> So, this is not only putting them
00:37:41
together as having the same fibers on them, this is connecting them as being in the same exact place.
00:37:47
>> The second fiber would later be identified as coming from the floor mats in Randy Craft's car.
00:37:52
>> Huh. The following day around 300 p.m. a driver in the San Bernardino Mountains
00:37:56
pulled into a turnout near Malt Bald Baldi Road and he discovered the body of Roger Dval.
00:38:02
>> My god. >> So they had gone out together and so he's done it again. >> He was fully clothed but his pants were
00:38:10
unbuttoned and pulled down. >> Uh Dval was wearing Nelson's jacket immediately connecting him to the other
00:38:16
victim. Also connecting him to other victims was the cause of death, ligature strangulation. Like Nelson, Dval had
00:38:23
ligature marks around one wrist and there was also evidence he had been sexually assaulted. At the time of his
00:38:29
death, his blood alcohol level was 007 and there was volume in his blood at least enough that Dval would have been
00:38:35
impaired if not unconscious. And again, they were not drinking or doing drugs. Right. So for more than a decade, Randy
00:38:44
Craft at this point had been killing men in multiple states now, confounding investigators,
00:38:51
>> they could rarely find even a shred of evidence in this case. >> 10 years. >> And he's leaving barely any evidence. I
00:38:57
mean, the evidence he's even leaving, they're just now starting to connect just them to each other. It's not even
00:39:04
connecting them to an outside source. Right >> now, in the end though, it wouldn't be
00:39:08
determined law enforcement or strong evidence that brought Craft's reign of terror to an end, but it was just simple
00:39:14
luck. >> Really? Yep. What was it? In the early morning hours of May 14th, 1983,
00:39:21
Sergeant Michael Howard and Officer Michael Sterling, the Michaels of the California Highway Patrol, were driving
00:39:27
north on the I5 when they spotted a car in the oncoming lane that appeared to be
00:39:32
weaving from one lane to another. Assuming the driver was probably drunk or >> impaired in some way, the officers
00:39:39
turned on their overhead lights and indicated for that driver to pull over. Before they were even out of the
00:39:44
cruiser, the driver, Randy Craft, was out of his car and walking towards them. >> That's never what you're supposed to do.
00:39:51
>> Howard said, "We walked towards him and took him up to the front of his car so
00:39:54
we could administer a field sobriety test. We hadn't seen anyone else in the car at that time."
00:40:00
>> Oh. While Sterling conducted the sobriety test, Howard approached the car and started speaking to the man in the
00:40:06
passenger seat that he just noticed. Craft said that was a hitchhiker he just picked up.
00:40:11
>> Mhm. >> When he got no response from this man in the passenger seat, he moved closer and
00:40:16
tapped on the window, which still didn't rouse the man. It was then that Howard noticed the passenger, who was
00:40:23
identified eventually as 25-year-old Terry Gamrell, appeared to be slumped over in his seat with pill bottles and
00:40:31
beer cans scattered at his feet. When he looked closer, he noticed that the victim's pants were pulled down just
00:40:37
below his groin, and his pants appeared to be wet with some kind of liquid. Howard also noticed that there was quote
00:40:45
indentations on his wrists that were similar to those of wide rubber bands like that kind of indentation.
00:40:52
>> So they caught this man >> mid mid disposal of a body. >> Howard called for an ambulance and while
00:41:02
the officers waited for paramedics, they questioned Craft, who had then failed the sobriety test and been placed in the
00:41:08
back of a police car. Craft told the officers that he'd given Gambrell some beers and some of his adapant, but
00:41:14
because he had just picked the man up, he didn't know whether he'd taken anything earlier in the evening.
00:41:21
>> Explain all the other things, Randy. >> Yeah. Eventually, the paramedics arrived
00:41:25
and examined Gambrell, but at this point, the man was already dead. >> That's so sad.
00:41:29
>> His body was removed to the nearest hospital where he was officially pronounced. At the autopsy, the Emmy
00:41:35
identified Gamrell's cause of death asphixxia due to ligature strangulation. The marks
00:41:41
on his neck indicated that he had been choked with a strap and the peticial hemorrhages in his neck indicated that
00:41:47
the strap had been repeatedly tightened and loosened before his death. >> A which remember he has used a Gat
00:41:54
before. He also noted ligature marks around the victim's wrists and when he was removed from the car he was missing
00:42:01
his socks and shoes. >> Oh my god. So he was absolutely in mid disposal. >> Yeah. Cuz obviously he hadn't just
00:42:07
picked this guy up at all if he doesn't have socks and [ __ ] shoes. >> No. Given the circumstances and the
00:42:12
evidence collected before and during the autopsy, investigators strongly suspected that they had just found the
00:42:18
man responsible for dozens of murders in Los Angeles over a [ __ ] decade. >> Yeah.
00:42:24
>> Craft was booked into the Orange County Jail on suspicion of murder and his bail
00:42:28
was set at $250,000. I can't believe this is how he got caught. >> Yeah, there have not been many cases
00:42:36
where that has been the case. Like, what a dumb sentence. That wasn't a dumb sentence.
00:42:44
>> It was a little crazy. It was just kooky. That's all. >> There have not been many cases where
00:42:48
we've seen that is what I meant to say. >> And the fact that this just it just came down to [ __ ] luck of all
00:42:57
the cars in Los Angeles. >> Yeah. for these two officers to just happen to find themselves behind this
00:43:05
car. Yeah. >> While he happens to be weaving >> mid disposal. >> Like damn. >> He's refusing.
00:43:12
>> What a dumbass. >> Yeah. A complete dumbass. >> Like thank goodness. But what a dumbass.
00:43:16
>> Thankfully, >> he is refusing to speak to anyone at this point, too. >> Yeah, that checks.
00:43:21
>> Now, within a few days, investigators had confidently connected Craft to the murders of Eric Church, Jeffrey Nelson,
00:43:27
and Roger Dval. And Craft's arraignment was postponed in order to give him more time to find an attorney, which he
00:43:33
definitely needs now. >> Yeah, for sure. Or determine his eligibility for a public defender. In
00:43:37
the meantime, bail was increased to $750,000 cuz they said, "We are finding out some
00:43:44
more about you, sir." I wonder in what is this 1983? I wonder how much 70 $750,000.
00:43:52
>> I can let you know. >> Was You're always my go-to for that because I'm very interested. It went
00:43:57
from 250 to 750. >> 1983. >> Yeah. About 2.4 million. Wa. That So they were like, "You're not
00:44:07
leaving." Is cray cray. I had to just read that like three times to make sure I was right.
00:44:12
>> Damn. >> Yeah. But about 2.4 million. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Damn. That's bonkers.
00:44:20
Later that same day, authorities from Oregon, who'd heard about the arrest, later contacted detectives in Long Beach
00:44:26
about a possible connection between Craft and six unsolved murders in their state. Marian County Sheriff Chuck
00:44:33
Foster told reporters, "When the fellow was arrested in Orange County, that caused us to do a follow-up
00:44:38
investigation, which produced evidence that leads us to list him as a definite suspect." Mhm.
00:44:43
>> Within a week, investigators from various agencies had combined their research sources, which like finally
00:44:49
>> nice. >> In connected Craft to 14 unsolved murders in three states, >> but we know there's more than that.
00:44:55
>> We sure do. Sheriff Brad Gates told the Los Angeles Times, "We have evidence which links him to 14 deaths in Southern
00:45:01
California, Oregon, and Michigan. We have made our information available to authorities from other jurisdictions
00:45:07
which are interested." The more detectives dug into his background and looked over the evidence, the more the
00:45:13
number of suspected victims list grew. >> On May 25th, 1983, Randy Craft was arraigned on five counts of first-degree
00:45:20
murder for the deaths of Terry Gamrell, Robert Logins, Eric Church, Jeffrey Nelson, and Roger Dval. In his statement
00:45:28
to the press, Craft's lawyer, Doug Otto, accused investigators of using his arrest as an opportunity to close old
00:45:35
cases. No, I don't think so. He was just, you know, like mid disposal >> of a man that
00:45:40
>> who was in the state that many men had been found in over the past decade. >> The same exact way.
00:45:45
>> Yeah. >> He said, though, >> they're living up every uh unsolved murder they can find. They're clearing
00:45:51
paper on this case. >> I don't think so. I think your client's just an absolute piece of [ __ ]
00:45:55
>> Here's the thing, Doug Otto. >> Gross. >> Shut the [ __ ] up, Doug. >> Here's the thing. [ __ ] off.
00:46:00
>> You know what's like free to do? To shut the [ __ ] up. >> It is. That's the cool thing about
00:46:05
shutting the [ __ ] up. It totally cost you 0. >> Cost you nothing. >> Yeah. >> It certainly wouldn't have been the
00:46:10
first time detectives had used an arrest to close cold cases, of course, but that
00:46:14
accusation seemed uh >> wild especially when a few days later investigators searched Craft's home and
00:46:21
car. >> It sounds like they found a lot there. >> Yeah. Where they found a mountain of
00:46:25
evidence connecting him to a large number of victims. In his car, technicians discovered a belt that LA
00:46:32
matched the ligature marks on Gamrell's neck, as well as a large amount of Adavant, Valium, and alcohol, all of
00:46:39
which had been found in the victim's blood. In the passenger seat of the car, there were large dark stains from what
00:46:45
was eventually determined to be human blood, which had soaked deep into the seat cushion. Wow. Technicians also took
00:46:52
samples of the carpet, and they determined them to be a match for the fiber samples found on Roger Dval's
00:46:57
body. >> Wow. The evidence collected in the car was enough to connect him to at least
00:47:01
two murders, but it's what was found under the carpet that proved most damning. In a large envelope
00:47:08
strategically hidden under the carpet on the driver's side, technicians found a stash of more than 50 photographs of
00:47:15
young men in very lurid and very sexually explicit poses. Some of the men in the photos, like Logan's Church, and
00:47:22
Deval, were among those on the victim's list, while others were not known to investigators. Mhm. In some cases, the
00:47:30
subjects in the photographs were clearly alive when the photos were taken. Others
00:47:34
though depicted images of men who were sleeping, unconscious, or dead. Oh my god. Not only did these photographs
00:47:43
provide a lot of circumstantial evidence connecting him to the victims, they also
00:47:47
connected the victims to Craft's various homes over the years since many of them
00:47:51
were taken in those locations. Dude, the photos were some of the strongest evidence investigators could find in
00:47:58
there in this entire thing. >> Pictures worth a thousand words. >> But the most sensational and
00:48:03
consequential evidence was found in the trunk of his car. Why was he just keeping I mean like boopping around with
00:48:10
all this stuff. >> Super duper cool of you to like give them everything they needed in your
00:48:13
literal vehicle. But >> why are you keeping this all in your car, sir? >> Exactly.
00:48:18
>> What did they find? Technicians searched the trunk and they discovered a three-
00:48:22
ring binder and inside they discovered a sheet of paper with 61 entries written in cryptic language. 61 entries. I'm
00:48:31
assuming this is the scorecard. >> This is where the scorecard killer name comes from. This document eventually was
00:48:37
referred to as his scorecard and would prove significant at trial. >> 61 names. The prosecution and detectives
00:48:45
argued it was a journal of sorts and listed all of Craft's murders. Um although the scorecard was written in
00:48:51
cryptic language with entries only appearing to reference certain aspects of the individual or the encounter in
00:48:57
time detectives were eventually able to associate certain victims with certain entries.
00:49:02
>> Yeah. >> Um I'm not going to read the entire thing uh cuz a lot of it is like not
00:49:07
connected to unsolved murder kind of thing or unknown. that some of the names he would give the victims is shows you
00:49:14
how disconnected he was. Um like one of them is just EDM. >> Oh my like what? >> One of them's hairy carry,
00:49:24
one of them's Airplane Hill, Marine Down Van Driveway. Twoin one twoin one. Yep.
00:49:33
Twiggy Wilmington Lagouna Beach Marina Pier 2. So he's even just referring to some of these
00:49:40
people as where he either found or dumped them. >> Like driveway diabetic skates
00:49:45
>> diabetic. >> Uhhuh. Which also, how did you know that? >> It must have come up in conversation.
00:49:50
>> Portland Navy white user parking lot. >> Um parking lot was connected to Keith
00:49:58
Croatwell. >> I was wondering that. Um, deodorant dog teen trucker seventh street MC Lagona Hoth off head
00:50:12
off head >> twoin one hitch New Year's Eve Westminster Date Jail out. >> Oh, that was the victim who had just
00:50:23
gotten out of jail. >> Just got out of jail. >> Two in one beach. He likes when he kills
00:50:28
two people um in one or dumps two people in one. He says two in one. >> That's disgusting.
00:50:33
>> Hollywood bus. >> Um Portland blood Portland head hike out LB boots oil and one of them is
00:50:45
what you got. >> What? >> Yeah. It's just like so yucky. It's so disconnected. It's so
00:50:57
[ __ ] cold. You can tell he like thinks he's he thinks he's done something here with these names, too.
00:51:04
Like he likes that he's just like calling them oil >> dog. >> Like that's so sad to be reduced to
00:51:11
that. >> Yeah. And the worst part is he probably knew most of their names. >> Yeah.
00:51:15
>> But he just didn't even bother. >> Right. >> So the quote unquote scorecard would
00:51:20
would prove essential to the prosecution's case against him. But it was only one piece in a very big growing
00:51:27
mountain of evidence that would eventually connect him to several of his victims. Uh several fibers found on or
00:51:34
like several of the bodies at the time of the discovery were found to be a match to fibers from
00:51:39
furniture or carpets in Craft's homes at the time of the murders >> or the carpets in his cars. Other
00:51:46
critical pieces of evidence collected throughout the investigation were like semen samples that matched his blood
00:51:51
type, hairs collected from various victims, um, which were a match for Craft, and a fingerprint found on the
00:51:58
broken bottle used to cut Marl's body after he had been murdered. Remember, they could not, it didn't come up in the
00:52:04
database. >> They finally figured it out. >> They can now compare it, and it matched.
00:52:08
During a search of his home, investigators discovered a large amount of personal items and clothing belonging
00:52:13
to several of the victims. This included, among other things, the shaving kit known to belong to Eric
00:52:19
Church, which still had Church's fingerprints on the outside. The nylon gym bag and pair of nunchucks belonging
00:52:25
to Lance Tags. A camera belonging to Michael Fallon. a keychain, bottle opener, and boots belonging to
00:52:32
Christopher Shoenborn, and a large assortment of belts and shoes belonging to various other victims
00:52:38
and were connected to them. >> Yeah. >> Given how huge this case was and the vast number of victims and the
00:52:45
incredible amount of press coverage that the case did receive at the time, it took years for the prosecutor's office
00:52:52
to build their case against >> Craft. Yeah. I mean, this is over a decade >> and they wanted to do it right. Yeah.
00:52:57
Now, among the more challenging tasks they faced were determining which of the 37 suspected victims they could
00:53:03
confidently and irrefutably connect to to Craft. They couldn't mess around with these.
00:53:08
>> No. >> And which ones they were unfortunately not going to be able to prosecute him
00:53:11
for at that time, which is a tough task, >> especially going to like their families
00:53:15
and explaining the why and >> Yeah. >> what and everything. >> Exactly. Ultimately, the DA went ahead
00:53:21
with charges of first-degree murder for the following victims. Edward Daniel Moore, Kevin Clark Bailey, Ronnie Jean
00:53:29
Wybe, Keith Davin Crowell, Mark Howard Hall, Scott Michael Hughes, Roland Gerald Young, Richard Allen Keith, Keith
00:53:38
Arthur Cllingbeiel, Michael Joseph Enderbeaten, Donald Harold Creel, Robert Wyatt Loggins Jr., Eric Herbert Church,
00:53:47
Roger James Dval Jr., Jeffrey Allen Nelson, and Terry Lee Gamrell, which are 16 victims. Yeah.
00:53:55
>> So that's who they could irrefutably connect him to. There are many others that they can connect him to. They just
00:54:03
were worried that they didn't want to. >> They wouldn't stand trial. >> Yeah. >> 16. To be able to prove
00:54:10
16 murders irrefutably is absolutely bonkers. >> Wild work. Especially when you think
00:54:17
about this time period. They didn't have like a ton when it came to deal like and
00:54:21
it was relatively new for a jury to understand. Mhm. >> To have the confidence to bring 16
00:54:26
murders to trial and say these this evidence is irrefutable is like >> unheard of insane. Truly unheard of.
00:54:33
>> Truly unheard of. Cuz usually when you have this like you were saying when you
00:54:36
have this massive amount of victim pool going on, >> you can really a lot of times we see
00:54:42
that they could only grab like two or three of them. >> And even that is tough. >> And that's always like wo I'm I can't
00:54:48
believe they were able to connect that. I think even like uh Rodney Alcala had a
00:54:51
had a very high number of victims and they they couldn't get a ton of a ton of his victims proved in court because it's
00:54:58
like it's really and when you want to make sure to nab this guy. >> You can't [ __ ] around with ones that
00:55:05
you're like >> could they potentially nab us on this or they could could they potentially
00:55:09
question this one entire trial >> and then they'll question these ones and like we don't want to lose them because
00:55:16
of this. And you have to think too of all the technicalities that he is definitely
00:55:22
going to appeal on when he's ultimately proven guilty. >> And with 16, they feel like they have
00:55:27
it. >> Yeah, that's bonkers. >> Crazy. Now, in addition to the murder charges, he was also charged with one
00:55:34
count of sodomy against Michael Enderbeaten. >> I'm actually shocked that it was only
00:55:38
one count of sodomy. >> One count of inflicting mayhem against Jeffrey Nelson and one count of sodomy
00:55:44
against Roger Dval. What does inflicting mayhem entail? >> Um, it involves maliciously maming or
00:55:49
disfiguring another person. >> Oh, okay. >> So, that absolutely makes sense. There
00:55:54
should have been a lot of those. Yeah. >> In these cases, special circumstances were attached, making it a death penalty
00:55:59
case. >> Nice. >> Also, despite their best >> in this case, nice. >> Nice. Like, get by.
00:56:04
>> Mhm. >> Uh, despite their best efforts, there remained many unanswered questions with
00:56:08
regard to several of the cases, too. Unfortunately, >> yeah. Chief among them, detectives were
00:56:13
never able to determine who, if anyone, had helped him commit the murders or dispose of the bodies. Randy Craft was
00:56:20
not a large man, and it seemed pretty unlikely that he would have been able to carry and dump a lot of those victims on
00:56:25
his own. He really isn't a big guy. >> No. >> Also, at a few of the dump sites, there
00:56:30
was evidence of another person having been there at the same time. >> Yeah. Like the footprints alongside the
00:56:35
other set of footprints, >> William's crime scene. That's where the second set of footprints was. Uh there
00:56:41
was also the matter of the photographs found in Craft's car. While some were taken with a Polaroid camera and didn't
00:56:47
need to be developed, many more were taken with a tra traditional film camera and would have required traditional
00:56:53
processing. Craft had no dark room in his house and he was not known to be familiar with film processing. So who
00:57:01
the [ __ ] had a dark room and was developing these sick photos? >> Yep. That's what I'm saying. And that's
00:57:09
the thing. So investigators concluded that someone had to have developed that film for him.
00:57:16
>> What the [ __ ] And the fact that to this day, they don't know who it was. >> Like however many years later, almost 50
00:57:23
years later at this point, we still don't know >> because no one else could have developed
00:57:27
those. Whoever developed those cameras saw what was in them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Especially with that kind of
00:57:33
developing back then. So >> like in a dark room, you're literally like washing them, drying them, letting
00:57:39
them like cheese. >> They're like he couldn't have just brought it to a film developing place
00:57:43
because those people would have seen it, see the photos. >> And it's like so either someone helped
00:57:49
him with the murders, >> helped him with disposal, or at the very least knows about the murders, saw the
00:57:56
pictures, or all three or two. >> And realistically, like it could be multiple people. Some maybe one person
00:58:04
had the whole photos and then maybe somebody else did the disposals that that could have been more than one
00:58:09
person. >> It's horrifying that that nobody was willing to come forward and like no one
00:58:15
decided to have a conscience >> and that he wouldn't >> that he wouldn't break on that is
00:58:21
interesting. >> Crazy. I mean, he really when it's a death penalty, >> there's even and if that doesn't
00:58:26
convince you that there's another person, in a small number of cases, there was foreign DNA not belonging to
00:58:32
Craft or the victim found on the victim's bodies. >> You hope that they still have that
00:58:37
somewhere. >> I I hope >> process that [ __ ] >> Let's use it, man. Like, we got to find
00:58:41
out who this is. >> Absolutely. >> And with regard to the potential accomplice, investigators are obviously
00:58:46
looking in the most likely place. He had two known long-term boyfriends that he lived with. Yeah.
00:58:52
>> So, it's like you would think the person in the house with him is probably a likely suspect.
00:58:57
>> In the cases between 1971 and 1976, detectives believed it was very possible that Craft's then boyfriend, Jeffrey
00:59:05
Graves, had helped him dispose of the bodies after the murders. >> Really? >> Graves was interviewed several times and
00:59:10
consistently denied having anything to do with the murders, but he died in 1987 uh shortly before Craft's trial began.
00:59:18
>> Wow. >> And he died of illness. >> Okay. Um, I was going to say >> like he wasn't murdered. Jeff Seig was
00:59:24
also considered as a possible accomplice, but like Graves, he denied any role and there was never enough
00:59:30
evidence to connect him to the murders. >> So after years of delays, his trial finally began on dece on September 27th,
00:59:37
1988 in Santa Ana County with Deputy District Attorney Brian Brown um acting on behalf of the state and C. Thomas
00:59:45
McDonald representing Craft. In his opening statement, Brown referenced the large amount of evidence discovered over
00:59:52
the years that connected Craft to the murders, including the fact that at the time he was arrested, the defendant had
00:59:57
been found with a victim in his car. Despite his obvious attempts to stick to the facts and avoid any
01:00:02
sensationalizing, Macdonald nonetheless accused the prosecution of trying to inflame the jury and color their
01:00:09
thinking so that they would arrive at a preconceived decision before they'd even
01:00:12
listen to the evidence. brother. That's just >> he was found with a victim. >> Yeah.
01:00:18
>> In his car. >> He was found with a dead body in his car. >> His car is rife with evidence and his
01:00:23
house is rife with evidence. >> There's personal notes. There's blood. >> This is one of those that as the defense
01:00:30
attorney, you just got to go, "All right, we just got to try to minimize at this point." Like, you know what I mean?
01:00:34
Like, we >> shocked he didn't go for like an insanity defense or something like that.
01:00:38
>> In that case, you kind of have to go for that cuz you have to explain why he did
01:00:42
this. He can't claim that he didn't do this. >> No, there's there's a dead body in his
01:00:47
possession, brother. >> Over the course of the trial, the jury heard from several witnesses who'd been
01:00:52
with the victims before they disappeared. But exchanges with the witnesses frequently became heated upon
01:00:58
cross-examination because Craft was acting as his own co-consel. >> Oh. >> And had a tendency to be confrontational
01:01:05
with witnesses. >> What a [ __ ] piece of absolute garbage. Outside the courtroom, tensions
01:01:12
between the press and the judicial system earned the story even more attention. The judge publicly argued
01:01:17
with the press over the release of sensitive information, like his so-called scorecard, which they
01:01:23
published. From the moment the trial opened, his defense was unusual and pretty bold.
01:01:30
With regard to the murder of Terry Gambrell, the defense argued that when the officers discovered Terry in the
01:01:35
front seat of Craft's car, the young man wasn't in fact dead. McDonald told the jury, "Of course he wasn't dead. You do
01:01:42
not have to have a pulse or a heartbeat to have vi viability." >> Sir, >> what do you have to have to have
01:01:51
viability? >> I need you to go back to uh biology class in seventh grade and explain that.
01:01:58
>> What the [ __ ] >> You don't need a pulse or a heartbeat to have viability. So, what are you talking
01:02:03
about? The potential of like brain waves firing off or something like that? That
01:02:07
means he's he still was murdered. Like, what are you what are you talking about?
01:02:11
>> That's beyond. >> In response, yeah, in response, the prosecution pointed out that regardless
01:02:18
of whether Gambrell was still warm and possibly alive when Craft was pulled over, he was pronounced dead a short
01:02:24
time later, which makes him one of Craft's victims. He didn't end up dead for no reason in that car. Like, they're
01:02:31
like I'm I would have been like, did he spontaneously die in the passenger seat?
01:02:36
No. >> What the [ __ ] >> He had a liature mark around his neck. >> Yeah. >> Are you kidding me?
01:02:40
>> And drugs in his system. >> Who did that? >> Right. >> In time, it became clear that McDonald's
01:02:46
strategy was to create enough reasonable doubt in the mind of the jurors that they could possibly reach any
01:02:51
conclusions and would have to acquit. That was what he was going >> like attempted to do that in a
01:02:55
intelligent way. You would think because if I was on that jury and that [ __ ] said to me, "You don't need
01:03:01
a pulse or a heartbeat to have viability." I would have to raise my hand and ask the judge a couple
01:03:06
questions. >> You would have to go your honor. >> Me and the jury literally Hello.
01:03:14
>> I just Can you Can you clear something up for me? Do we have a science teacher
01:03:17
in the room? >> Hi. Biology. Hi. Hi. >> Basic biology. >> Hey. >> What the [ __ ]
01:03:25
>> Yeah. Now, in support of that, the defense presented of his strategy of like, let's just create chaos.
01:03:32
>> Yeah, exactly. Let's create a [ __ ] circus. >> The defense presented a range of
01:03:36
alternative suspects, which weren't exactly in short supply at that time in Southern California, unfortunately.
01:03:42
>> Um, in fact, investigators themselves had initially thought at least some of the victims had been killed by Patrick
01:03:47
Kernney or William Bonan, right? and a variety of the supposed alibis for Craft on the night of the murders he was still
01:03:53
trying to use. The defense's other tactic was to offer various alibis for him on the nights that this whole thing
01:04:00
all the things happened. In the case of Keith Crowell's murder, for example, they presented previously obtained
01:04:07
testimony from Jeff Graves. Remember Jeff Graves was the one who supported the whole he got stuck in the mud, he
01:04:15
called me to come get like he called me for help kind of thing. And when we first hear that, we go, "Oh, well, [ __ ]
01:04:20
maybe." But now that you know that he had an accomplice and that they were looking at him as an accomplice,
01:04:27
>> it gets a little muddy. >> That's literally >> Yeah. Similarly, in the case of Mark
01:04:32
Hall's murder, Craft and several family members alleged he was at a New Year's Eve party at his parents house all
01:04:37
evening and he returned very early in the morning that following day. But in this case, a detective for the
01:04:43
prosecution drove the route described by Craft and discovered that he could have
01:04:47
left the party and returned the next day at an early hour and still had several hours in which he could have killed
01:04:53
Hall. >> There you go. >> I love that a detective was like, I'll be and then just drove the route and was
01:04:59
like, nope. While McDonald's case may have been at times um kind of compelling to watch, I suppose the prosecution had
01:05:07
a significant and far more compelling, seriously compelling amount of physical evidence.
01:05:11
>> Yeah. Like the fact that they have things that these victims were last seen wearing or carrying in this
01:05:17
motherfucker's house. >> They also have photograph and blood and fibers >> and a dead body found in his possession,
01:05:23
which I will never stop yelling from the [ __ ] rooftops. They had physical evidence, forensic evidence, witness
01:05:28
testimony. >> They had it all. >> Yeah. He at least murdered the 16 men that they were presenting.
01:05:34
>> Much of that evidence was circumstantial. But for the defendant to have so many of the victim's belongings
01:05:39
and photographs, like we were just saying, which had been taken before and after their deaths,
01:05:45
>> how are you arguing that Craft was not responsible for the murders? >> Yeah, that's beyond reasonable doubt. On
01:05:49
April 29th, 1989, closing arguments began in the trial. In his arguments, Deputy District Attorney Brian Brown
01:05:57
pointed to the large amount of evidence in Craft's possession and reminded the jury of the large amount of forensic
01:06:03
evidence and testimony that they had just witnessed. Finally, he reminded them of the victim list found in Crap's
01:06:10
possession, which he referred to as a quote dynamite piece of evidence that connected 14 of the 16 victims to each
01:06:18
other and back to Randy. Mhm. >> In his closing arguments on the other side, defense attorney James Merwin
01:06:25
proceeded with their strategy of just >> being a fool. >> Of of acting a fool. >> Yeah, exactly.
01:06:32
>> Reminding the jury that while the forensic evidence did show the craft had been in the presence of these men and
01:06:37
may had had sex with some of them, investigators and the prosecution were unable to prove beyond a reasonable
01:06:42
doubt that he killed them, >> except for the fact that he has photos in his possession of them dead. As for
01:06:48
the supposed scorecard that Brown suggested was irrefutable proof, Merwin dismissed the idea that it was a list of
01:06:55
victims and suggested, quote, "It may be no more than a guest list for a roommate's birthday party." Are you
01:07:01
[ __ ] kidding me? >> That's a literal quote. >> Are you [ __ ] kidding me? >> Maybe no more than a guest list for a
01:07:08
roommate's birthday party. A guest list also, weirdly, that has dates attributed
01:07:14
to each of those people. >> Various dates. What do those dates mean? >> How many roommates do you have?
01:07:19
>> Also, did the roommate give every single one of these people a nickname? >> Yeah.
01:07:24
>> Uh that include blood and multiple multiple have the same nickname. Two for one.
01:07:28
>> Yeah. Portland head. Who's that? >> I'd love to know >> who's coming to his birthday party named
01:07:33
Portland Head. >> Get a grip. >> Like get a grip. >> Get a [ __ ] grip. >> And a life while you're at it.
01:07:39
>> Get a literal grip. Get a life as my dad would say to anybody that pisses him
01:07:43
off. >> It's my favorite thing that he says. Get a life. He says it with such [ __ ] he
01:07:48
burns. >> Tells aid in traffic. >> Yeah, life. It's pretty great. >> [ __ ] that guy, though. Not my dad. This
01:07:54
guy. Um, on May 2nd, the jury, just in case that wasn't clear, >> on May 2nd, the jury retire retired for
01:08:01
deliberation, which lasted a full 11 days, which is wild to me. >> Baby girls, why did it take you that
01:08:06
long? >> Like, what is going on? >> Respectfully, no. >> Disrespectfully, what took so long?
01:08:10
before emerging on May 13th to find Randy Craft guilty of all 16 murders. >> Iconic,
01:08:16
>> as well as one sodomy charge charge and one charge of mayhem. >> Good. >> When the verdict was read, the families
01:08:22
of the victims wept and cheered the outcome. >> Um Jeffrey Nelson's mother, Judy, told a
01:08:27
reporter, "I know he's guilty. He knows he's guilty. Every mother in there had 16 beautiful sons, and that guy
01:08:34
destroyed them. He should pay something." >> Absolutely. >> And you know what, Judy? I [ __ ]
01:08:38
agree. >> Yep. Wholeheartedly. Quick little side tangent. Um, we haven't talked about
01:08:43
like the Idaho murders a lot. One, because we are not >> we're not covering >> we weren't current either. Like while it
01:08:50
was happening, we would have been 3 weeks behind everything. >> So, we didn't want to be like 3 weeks
01:08:54
behind all the updates and be annoying you guys with like >> it would just be like really
01:08:58
disrespectful to everybody involved. >> We're not going to cover them anytime soon. Not anytime soon.
01:09:03
>> Yeah. anytime soon because one it happened pretty recently and two those families are still like they just went
01:09:10
through that sentencing. Not only that, but just thinking about this mother talking about that.
01:09:15
>> Brian Anton, who covers a lot of these, he covered like the Gabby Patito case
01:09:19
while it was going. He's like very journalist. He's a very great and very respectful journalist from what I've
01:09:24
seen. He was in the sentencing for Brian Coberger and he saw one of the victim's
01:09:30
mothers receiving threatening text messages from some piece of [ __ ] internet person who was literally
01:09:36
threatening her while she was at the sentencing for the man who brutally murdered her child.
01:09:41
>> Trying to say that Brian Coberger was not guilty. Meanwhile, his evidence, his
01:09:46
DNA was found as evidence at the go. >> I won't even >> I won't even. And so like
01:09:51
>> what are you doing texting a murder victim's mother like that? like pisses me off. Like you got to be the lowest
01:09:58
form of the same people who were sitting there saying that the roommates had something to do with it and all that
01:10:05
[ __ ] Like I'm not going to go far into this because again I said I would not cover this, but just like we got to get
01:10:11
it together. We've all had moments where we thought something about a case and theorized. We have been guilty of that
01:10:17
before. >> Absolutely we have. >> But you got to evolve. >> Start evolving. Everybody evolve. It's
01:10:23
2025. We got to stop that >> and realize that you don't know everything. >> That's the thing. And it's like and
01:10:29
>> and you never will. >> You got to evolve in the true crime world with like not you got to know what
01:10:35
start looking around. Just start looking around. See >> how it you know like that it just like
01:10:41
that really thinking about that poor woman getting threatening text messages from people who think they know more.
01:10:46
>> Yeah. just sent me into orbit and I was just thinking of this mother like sitting
01:10:52
there being like all 16 mothers in that courtroom lost sons and I'm like [ __ ] >> they did
01:10:56
>> like just leave people alone >> just leave leave these families alone >> have some [ __ ] respect.
01:11:02
>> Yeah, for real. And I'm not I know it's not you guys listening you guys. >> I'm not talking like straight to you
01:11:07
guys saying like [ __ ] like you know like when you look around and see those you're probably getting
01:11:10
>> you never know who's going to tune in. Yeah, you never know. Uh but uh so back
01:11:15
to they you know they came back they gave him the guilty verdict for all 16 victims uh and they returned to the
01:11:22
courtroom on June 5th for the sentencing phase. Um that lasted another two months.
01:11:27
>> Wow. >> During this period the defense made a number of arguments for leniency. You
01:11:32
can literally go [ __ ] yourself with that. >> Including arguing the head injury that
01:11:36
Craft had sustained as a small child doing damage to his frontal lobe. I'm I'm sure that it did, but like it
01:11:42
doesn't make you kill that many people and lose that amount of humanity. >> The prosecution disagreed with that and
01:11:49
encouraged the jury to return a death sentence. >> Yeah, me as well. >> On August 12th, 1989, the jury did
01:11:55
indeed sentence Randy Craft to die for the crimes he committed. One juror said, "He should die for what he did to all
01:12:01
those people. I've had nightmares thinking about the horror of what this man has done." Another juror agreed with
01:12:07
this, telling a reporter, "I'm never going to be normal again. I was so naive about so many things."
01:12:12
>> Wow. You have to think like what people go through. >> Yeah. And those kind of things. Yeah.
01:12:19
>> Really will change you for the rest of your life. >> You are seeing things that the public is
01:12:24
not seeing. You are seeing crime scene photos. You are seeing autopsy photos. You are seeing the worst kind of [ __ ]
01:12:28
you can imagine. >> On such a minute level, I you and I have talked about this before. I feel changed
01:12:34
from doing this for so many years. >> I'll never I will never stop thinking about the Moors murders.
01:12:41
>> You just said that and that immediately popped into my head >> when I accidentally stumbled upon a
01:12:46
picture that I did not want to see. >> I was not looking for it. It came up in the course of something else and I I
01:12:52
will think about it until the day I die. >> It's the pictures. It's the brutal details and like I'm not saying that you
01:12:58
like none of us should have an interest in true crime or anything like that, but
01:13:01
like it does change you. >> Yeah, it absolutely changes you. >> It should change it. I think it it
01:13:06
definitely should change you. So, the judge Donald McCarten chose to reserve a lot of his commentary until Craft had
01:13:12
exhausted his appeals, but he did have some strong words for the defense regarding their conduct during the
01:13:18
trial. Oh, I bet. >> He told McDonald and Mer uh Merwin in a harsh tone before admonishing them for
01:13:25
the constant delays and attempts to stall. This trial should have been over in 3 months.
01:13:30
>> Yeah. McCarten pointed to the trial of Richard Ramirez, which had began on the
01:13:34
same day as Craft's trial and ended in just two months. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Isn't that crazy that they started
01:13:40
on the same day? >> Yes. >> 3 months later, >> California. >> Yeah. California's been through it.
01:13:45
>> Yeah. Three months later on November 29th, Judge McCarten formally sentenced Craft to death and he remained in
01:13:52
custody of the state and then was removed to San Quentin Rehabilitation Center. Because California has gone back
01:13:58
and forth over the legality of the death penalty in their state, very few executions have occur occurred in the
01:14:04
years since he was convicted and none have occurred since 2006. Today the death penalty is legal but
01:14:11
there has been a moratorum in place since 2019 that bars the practice. >> As a result of this whole thing Randy
01:14:18
Craft remains on death row at San Quentin without any date for his execution. He's 82. Damn. In the years
01:14:25
since his conviction, he has appealed several times but has yet to successfully overturn his conviction or
01:14:30
sentence. The challenges he's brought to the appeals courts have ranged from the
01:14:34
unlawful admission of evidence to the legality of the death penalty itself. But in most cases, the court just failed
01:14:41
to find his arguments persuasive at all. >> Mhm. >> As for the crimes themselves, Craft has
01:14:46
consistently denied any responsibilities for the murders and maintains that he is
01:14:50
innocent of the charges. >> That's a joke. >> Even after all that evidence. >> That's a joke. Also, sorry, he's 80. For
01:14:56
the most part, Randy Craft has denied requests for interviews and did not testify on his own behalf or speak
01:15:02
during the sentencing phase. Finally, in 2016, he agreed to speak with the Bay Area Reporter, an LGBT news organization
01:15:11
in California about the case and trial. >> Uhhuh. >> He told the reporter, "I'm getting
01:15:15
older. I'm going to die here. If I don't say something, it will never be said." According to Craft, he met Terry
01:15:22
Gambrell at a bar called the Brig, and the Marine was very drunk and incoherent. He said he was sitting down
01:15:28
holding stuff in his lap near the trash can in the parking lot. He looked out of
01:15:32
sorts, and I asked him if he was okay. >> Oh, you're such a humanitarian. >> He didn't say anything to me other than
01:15:37
he said, "El Toro. I thought he was drunk or whatever and would take him to the base." He claimed that at the time
01:15:43
he was noticed by police he wasn't weaving because he was drunk, but because he was trying to help Gambrell.
01:15:49
>> Oh, yeah. He said, "I was shaking him, trying to wake him, shouting at him, trying to see if anything was in his
01:15:54
mouth, blocking his airway." >> That's so crazy cuz like, who strangled him then?
01:15:57
>> Yeah. Looking to see if he was wounded or bleeding. >> Oh my god. >> He said, "Then I noticed the lights of
01:16:02
the CHP patrol car that was pulling me over." >> [ __ ] like this shouldn't even get
01:16:06
published. >> No, it shouldn't. And I love that he also had which I believe is personally I
01:16:12
believe this is him getting a little funny funny out of his his statement here when he said he wanted to make sure
01:16:18
that nothing was blocking his airway. >> Oh yeah. >> Really? Like the several things that you
01:16:23
force-fed down people's throats and suffocated them with >> throughout the years.
01:16:27
>> Yeah. >> Like that was a cute little addition. You [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] Throughout
01:16:33
the interview, he continued to assert that the supposed scorecard the prosecutor made so much about was just a
01:16:40
list of guests for an upcoming birthday party. >> Why did it have different dates then?
01:16:44
>> And different states, >> dates, states, names. What the [ __ ] are you talking about? And why are you
01:16:49
wasting people's time? >> He said one column was the names of people I wanted to invite and the other
01:16:54
column were may. It was in code so he wouldn't recognize it because he was going to surprise his roommate.
01:16:59
>> And what were the different dates and states about? Don't worry about it. As for all the other evidence against
01:17:04
him, that was all manufactured by the prosecution to close the case on so many unsolved murders. He said, "I didn't get
01:17:10
a fair trial. The government turned it into a serial killer trial." I bet. Wow. Whether he did or didn't get a fair
01:17:17
trial, he remains on death row to this day, and he will likely remain there until he [ __ ] dies. In the meantime,
01:17:23
the authorities in California are continuing to work on identifying those additional victims, both those on the
01:17:28
quote unquote scorecard and those who don't appear there, but are nonetheless believed to have been victims of Randy
01:17:35
Craft, the scorecard killer. So, there's more than the 61 on that card that they
01:17:39
think are attributed to him. That's crazy. And that is the case of the scorecard killer, Randy Craft.
01:17:48
That was truly unlike anything we have ever covered. Truly. I Yeah. Some of the things that we talked about in the past
01:17:57
few days are unimaginable. And just like that juror, I feel changed forever. >> I feel completely changed by this case.
01:18:05
Completely. Those poor families having to sit there and hear the [ __ ] atrocities that were done to their
01:18:12
children. >> Yeah. >> I like by this piece of absolute garbage. That's a crime in and of itself
01:18:18
that they had to sit there and hear about that. >> Yeah. >> That's awful. >> It's It never ceases to amaze me that
01:18:24
people like this exist. >> That's the thing happens. >> Yeah. >> To to make people this way.
01:18:31
>> Yeah. >> It It is fascinating to look into some simple he bumped his head. >> No, it's so It goes so far beyond that.
01:18:40
>> Yeah. >> People are twisted, my dude. >> They twisted. I mean, this is like worst nightmare.
01:18:50
>> I can't even come up with a word for this. I mean, monstrous, grotesque, atrocious,
01:18:58
>> every abhorent, abominable. Like, it's just like everything is >> he he's and that and there's so many.
01:19:06
>> Like, it got to a point when I was going through this that I was like, when does
01:19:09
it stop? >> Yeah. >> Like, when does it stop and when does he get caught? Cuz I can't read about
01:19:13
another one of these. But then I was like, you have to read about another >> matter no matter what. And it's like,
01:19:20
holy [ __ ] >> What was it ultimately 12 13 years he was killing? Yeah. It was like over a
01:19:25
decade. >> Yeah. Like that is in three states like several counties like thank goodness for DNA. And thank goodness
01:19:34
those uh jurisdictions started talking to each other. >> I know. >> And opened it up to other jurisdictions.
01:19:40
They never would have connected this. >> I know. And you just you really hope that with the and I've said it like so
01:19:44
many times, but I really hope that with the advancements in forensic sciences, he they can figure out who the [ __ ]
01:19:49
helped him with this and who that other DNA belongs to on some of those bodies. >> Yeah. I hope so because I want to get
01:19:55
>> some of those people identified. Nobody should have to be unidentified for that
01:19:59
long. >> Yeah. And like the accompllices should not be able to live the rest of their
01:20:03
lives. >> No. Yeah. The accompllices. We need to find out who the [ __ ] did that like
01:20:08
>> Yeah. >> He had help. >> Absolutely. Who the [ __ ] is it? And he's not going to turn on anybody cuz he's
01:20:13
not admitting that he was even involved. >> And so he would that would ruin his whole like he's a little [ __ ] So it's
01:20:20
like >> he's dumb because you're on death row no matter what. >> You're in your 80s. You're dying there.
01:20:24
So it's like just admit it, dude. Clear your [ __ ] conscience. And it's like not that you have one.
01:20:28
>> Evil to the core. >> And he's holding on to his [ __ ] So he knows if he starts pointing fingers he's
01:20:33
now admitting to what he did. So it's he's never going to do it. That's why he hasn't pulled anyone in. And I'm shocked
01:20:39
by it. >> Yeah, it is nuts. >> But it's to save his own ass. But I don't know why cuz I'm like, you're
01:20:44
dying there. But he wants like he doesn't want that legacy. He wants to pretend that he's innocent and he was
01:20:49
just railroaded. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. Well, like we promised, our next episode will be spooky. I think we're
01:20:56
going to do spooky games. >> Yeah. We found some really cool ones that we just want to get like fun with.
01:21:01
>> They're scary. >> They're scary. Like paranormal place. >> Yeah. Just for one episode so we can
01:21:06
just take a second. >> Yeah. And then I think after that we've got listener tales.
01:21:10
>> Yeah. >> Um so yeah. Well, with all that being said, we hope you keep listening
01:21:14
>> and we hope you >> keep it weird. >> Not so weird that you don't go do something nice for yourself today.
01:21:22
>> Yeah. Treat yourself. >> Treat yourself. >> Treat yourself. [Music] [Music] [Music]