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I have really really cool news Okay so about a year ago I got to share the absolutely life-changing mind-blowing
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like Universe warping news about writing my first book The Butcher and the Wren I
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could never have dreamed of the support that I received then and that the book continues to receive now from all of you
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you are amazing you set records with the numbers of pre-orders you made every edition of best seller it's it's you
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guys you did it and it was even nominated recently for an Audi award it's for best audiobook with a
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multi-voice performance yup yup those voice actors are the best and now I am so proud and so thrilled to share two
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pieces of incredible news with you I have been sitting on this these two pieces of news forever and I can't wait
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to scream them to you so the first one is that the butcher in the Wren is going to be out in paperback this summer on
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July 25th so you can finally get that paperback edition and to make this even cooler guess what the paperback edition
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is going to have what it's gonna have a sneak peek of a chapter from book two oh
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my God and guess what I got to read it and I can tell you it's a really good chapter it is that's right there's going
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to be a sequel it is coming you get to read part of it in that paperback if you get it and what's even better is that my
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publisher is giving away free signed copies of the paperback to the first 50 people who pre-order so if you want to
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pre-order the paperback with that sneak peek chapter of book two in it you can go to tinyurl.com
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t-b-a-t-w paperback that's tinyurl.com tbatw paperback thank you guys so much you're amazing thank you so much for
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listening supporting reading being the best weirdos that you ever could be I can't tell you how much I appreciate you
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and love you yo I just want to hug you all but I won't because it's virtual but like feel it okay I can't wait for you
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guys to read more of Jeremy and ren this summer and it's gonna be awesome just you wait kapowi
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[Music] thank you hey weirdos I'm Elena and I'm Ash and this is morbid [Music] yay I love morbin I love morbid too I
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love you oh my god and I love all of you yay and you know what I wasn't here last
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episode uh you guys got Caleb instead Caleb khalib it was a fun episode with Kayla but you were obviously very missed
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but it was it was a good time we love Caleb yeah who doesn't do he's literally like our Brethren he's our Brethren he's
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our one called my brother in Christ yeah I call him our brother in Christ all the
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time yeah he's wonderful we love him um very thankful to him for stepping in when I had to dip out real quick
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what did you do I went to New York City I I don't think I did a really great job
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of explaining like why you were gone I was like she's getting like honored out of Gala
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um I don't know it's like a New York minute thing her and John are gonna be fancy yep that's pretty much exactly
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what I said uh no I got to go to the poet and writers Gala it'd be a literary table host which was cool uh it was
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really fun and it was Levar Burton was the host yeah and he sang the Reading Rainbow theme song that's really [ __ ]
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special so that uh was worth its weight in gold um he was amazing and then we went to
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the um out I think it's like the I can never say around the Audis audio audio the Audis yeah the audience
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yeah but it looks like Audi the car and that was us trying to figure out how to speak on a podcast thanks for tuning in
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but uh yeah the butcher in the red was uh a finalist in the multi-voiced performance category which
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is a big deal because there's only like 25 categories yeah Sophie and Joe the narrators who did
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um the the narration for the Butcher and they're in the audiobook they were like
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they did such a [ __ ] awesome job did you get to meet them while you were there I didn't and you know what the
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thing is here it is Sophie if you're listening right now I need you to know this I don't think Joe was there okay
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but Sophie I think I saw Sophie and I was with Sabrina yeah my wonderful literary agent I was with John and I
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looked over and I said I think that's Ren and they were like what and I was like I'm pretty sure that's rent and
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then I was like I'm scared to go up to her and say are you ran and have her be like who the [ __ ] no like I don't know
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who you are oh my God I got very social anxiety about it but Sophia I think I saw you and I and it was exciting
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because I was like that's so cool look it's Ren and I didn't say anything and I regret it now I know exactly how that
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feels though like I know exactly the feeling that you were feeling I get very well not intense because I never wrote a
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book and had somebody narrate it I'm like I know exactly what that's like when I go to these Galas anxiety you
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know like it's I it was it was intense and it was a very different vibe for me because it was such a fancy event
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um DePaul fence wall but you know it was fun but that was my outing for the year
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I don't blame you I will not be doing anything else so there was that so that was fun
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um but yeah I had to miss the uh episode recording I know and Caleb was like I got you yeah in fact that's literally
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what he said I got you quite literally said that so okay I got you doggy yep I got you doggy that's what he said
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verbatim um but this is this kind of works out because the last episode that I did was
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the Birkin hair case I loved that well I didn't love that but it was a fascinating case right like it's a very
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interesting Scottish case one of the craziest Scottish crimes in Scottish history
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um and this connects to it oh so it's like a fun little like continuation a little offshoot uh this is actually I'm
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going to talk about the Arthur seat coffins today uh you if you were at the obituary show
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or if you have been at any of the obituary shows I assume they mention these little coffins okay and when I saw
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them I was like oh I've been meaning to dive into those you actually leaned over
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to me and said that exactly I literally did I was like oh that's one I wanted to
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like put on the list to make sure I get to and when we decided to do birken hair
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which is another one I've been wanting to do forever I was like oh these connect so we can just do them back to
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back and here we are hello so let's tell you what Arthur's seat is first okay they're probably like what is that yeah
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so Arthur's seat is the largest section of a three-part ancient volcano system that
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erupted more than 300 million years ago and is now extinct it was lit it was very lit uh it's located about one mile
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east of edinburgh's Old Town neighborhood not very far from the coast it has slopes and cliffs it's like very
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Scenic and it basically combines with other Hills and geological features like the Salisbury Crags and all these things
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together form Holly Rood Park which is one of Scotland's Royal parks and the largest open space in Edinburgh that's
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really cool yeah it's very cool I don't think I realized that there were volcanoes in Scotland yeah they're like
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everywhere well like they're they're in way more places than you think yeah because a lot of them are extinct so
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it's like you would never know that that was once an active volcano right or even
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a dormant one because now it's like is it it doesn't do it that was me making the like it's dead she did the like hand
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across yeah yeah the visuals are hard around here they are they're hard on a podcast but here we are
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um also if you go on like Tick Tock or something while you can if you can and it's fingers crossed and you type in
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like Edinburgh or you type in like Arthur seat Scotland you're gonna get some really cool [ __ ] videos of it if
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you type in Scotland into Tick Tock we were just watching tick tocks actually and you're like I want to go to there
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planning a trip to you immediately but um yeah it's wild and you see our car castle in A lot of them and I'm like
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oh okay that's just my castle that's the latest ancestors it's just my answer oh
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wait those are my ancestors too no they're just men no they're mine I'm just kidding we can share them um so the
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area of Arthur's seat has a lot of history um it was once home to the the vodadini
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I believe it's pronounced an iron-aged era Society of bratonic people who occupied the area until about the fifth
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century okay um it has a position as the highest point in the region which is good
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because it made it a really good location for a hill Fort because obviously from that high up it would
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have been very defensible from all four sides and over time the area has served a number of important social functions
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too um it was a super fruitful hunting ground uh it was the grounds of the Hollywood Holly Rood I always want to
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say Hollywood Hollywood Abbey which was a haven for debtors during the Victorian era and it is among Queen
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Victoria and Prince Albert's favorite locations in Scotland oh interesting in fact Prince Albert felt so strongly
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about this region that he actually enacted programs to clean up the overly polluted Royal Park and he put in
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policies to protect basically its natural Splendor that's really cool yeah now although the origins of its name are
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not like super no they're we think we know where it came from so they're not like it's so we don't have like the
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concrete evidence we need to be like that's what it is we're making inferences we are and we're inside there
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you go and one of the most popular theories for where the name came from is that it was the site of Camelot oh poem
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of King Arthur I know that night so the round table knife stuck in the rock you know like there wasn't there was an uh
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what's the knight's name in that isn't it Camelot Lancelot Lancelot Lance I knew it was a lot the exactly it
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wasn't a candle Camelot was like the kingdom I think oh okay so Arthur's seat King Arthur he sat there makes sense
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that this area would be called Arthur's seat for Camelot I like it I think that is the the origin because it's fun and I
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can't think of any other origin no it's the it's fun it's whimsical I like it it's Fantastical I like it yeah there
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are some less exciting theories of where it came from [ __ ] these following theories you know one of them is that it
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could be an evolution of an ancient Scott Gaelic word I'm gonna try it guys go for it ardna
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said I believe you which means height of arrows okay I you know yeah sure fun in
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a way yeah in a different way you're literary yeah you know illiterate you are indeed and it's fun and like oh fun
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language and words way yeah but it's not fun in like a Camelot Knights of the Round Table kind of way if there's not a
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night it's just like if there's not a night what are we even here for that's you know I'm a night owl oh me too
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uh but yes and then you know like so there's that and then more theories are that it was once you know the home of an
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ancient dragon okay that's really [ __ ] fun you're like [ __ ] these following theories I'm like oh no this
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is pretty good was Daenerys there perhaps and you know what this one I think you're really gonna like oh let's
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[ __ ] go some people say that the do on the morning grass contains magical properties that will keep you looking
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young and beautiful give me those [ __ ] Tuck Everlasting drops and this do magic actually is such a
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prevalent legend that many a young woman often climb the hillside on May Day and
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wash their faces in the morning do because youth what's may day may day is a day is it in May
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[ __ ] because I want I think we're probably gonna go in summer if we go yeah because that's supposedly like the
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best time to go yeah and like you know kids not missing school and stuff but like
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[ __ ] I want to go on May Day I mean maybe you can just go and get the do anyway maybe it has the same I mean act
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like I'm not gonna act like I'm not gonna rub do on my face act like I'm gonna rub all the dew on my face oh yeah
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you are okay I'm excited about that for Botox I think it's pretty great yeah just get some Arthur's seat do I'm about
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to do Holly rude any Scottish listener right now is like my God step aside exactly there you go damn the
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Holly rude do is where it's at so given its geographical prominence it's Splendor it's aesthetic Beauty it's
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magical properties it does make sense that Arthur's seat would be a pretty significant piece of any Scottish and
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Gaelic folklore it's like a perfect place for it it's like fairy Glens in the Isle of Skye in Scotland Rife she
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just told me about it yeah go look at that to the fairy Glens or the whole Isle of Skye really I'm
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getting the [ __ ] out of America you guys yeah I mean you look at Scotland or really like any of those kind of places
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and you're like what am I doing over here if we get to go to there I'm like gonna look at something I want to go to
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them I'm not even joking you're lost right now bye y'all yeah um interestingly too this place is so
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like magical and beauteous and wonderful it is attracted you know obviously it's
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been part of Scottish and Gaelic folklore but it's also attracted non-european groups like the Mormon
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church huh right I said that too huh that's exactly my reaction really all I know
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they Incorporated it into their Origins as far back as 1840. so that's just like an interesting
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little thing um right now as we sit here it's a very popular like tourist destination that
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makes sense um and you can get there by a short hike you can guess like it's not one of those
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things that you're like well you have to like free climb up a cliff to get there
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you know like it's not one of those you can just like run up that hill with you can just run it up that hill exactly uh
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so you're good uh but let's talk so now we know where Arthur's seat is I almost said office
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at the seat and now we know what at this seat is um we can now talk about the coffins the
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Lilliputian coffins what is Lilliputian thank you for asking that I don't know that was really funny I really you know
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you're always really thank you for asking that you walked me into my next statement you go thank you for asking
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that I literally don't know I'll look it up I don't know why that was you know what
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it is I think I got so excited about the word Lilliputian because it's beautiful
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it feels great oh it's just it just means trivial or very small okay yeah there you go it's a very small person or
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thing there you go because you know what like say Lilliputian oh I will liliputian doesn't that feel just like
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well anything usually that starts with little I like to say and specifically at the end of things feels very like you
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shouldn't yeah and Sean are very yummy names they are they just it's got good mouth feel to it
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it does I was gonna shout out Ryan Lil really quick oh my God Ryan Lil yeah I knew that you would be on board with
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that for a moment yeah let's take a quick little detour don't worry I'm not gonna like we're not gonna go for it let
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us pray like and let us to Ryan Lil Ryan Lil we're gonna have to link his stuff in the in our show notes because it's so
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worth knowing this human um you need to check out his books which we will also um
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his newest one is I want to make sure I get the it's in the pie in the Pines I just wanted to make sure I got the exact
00:16:54
yeah it's in the Pines in the Pines he also has music music is the song Adore me that we like oh my God or is it just
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adore me right yeah it's adore me um it's he's just a very talented human being he's an amazing makeup artist uh
00:17:13
his other book is on the wire that is already out I believe the on a wire on a wire and then in the next one is going
00:17:21
to be coming out soon so look out for it we're just gonna link his um he's gonna shout him out everywhere
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yeah we're gonna link his link Tree in these show notes because I'm obsessed with him and so are you he's a wonderful
00:17:32
human and it's just like one of those people that you're like you know what yeah I just want you to be the happiest
00:17:39
human yeah so follow Ryan Lil Washington two l's and Ryan lill on Instagram yeah
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and go check the books are by the book phenomenal listen to the music can confirm watch the music video for a door
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watch the music video for Adore Me you showed it to me and I was over the moon also just like scream out the lyrics to
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adore me scream whenever you can scream them out your sunroof because my God is in a Bop while someone else is driving
00:18:04
by the way but yeah so that's our short little detour but Lila Fusion Lil uh a little pushing coffins
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um in late June 1836 so just you know a couple of years ago yeah uh a group of local boys so they were just venturing
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into a holly rude Park they were going to hunt for I can't help it now no I left they were going to hunt for rabbits
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people do that now I don't know why I'm acting like this isn't only 18 30. I'm like it was 1836 when people hunted
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rabbits okay you know what I think this year rabbits have changed to my favorite
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animal whoa look at you I'm not even I believe that a spiritual connections lately you have been but I'll shut up no
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I think you yeah rabbits and you they're you're together forever uh but they were
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going to hunt rabbits and as they arrived they were you know looking for rabbits and as they did that they looked
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for they noticed a really small opening which when you read this story anywhere it's commonly referred to as a cave
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but like it's kind of just like a depression in the side of a mountain yeah don't set people up to be
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disappointed don't set people up thinking this is a [ __ ] game don't promise a cave of Wonder justification
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but yeah it's like I guess it's like a tiny cave but they notice this in the rock wall along the relatively secluded
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northeast side of the Hill okay so they get closer and they notice that the opening is actually covered up by what
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was three thin pieces of slate stone rudely cut at the upper ends into a canonical form and then placed into a
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row so that's different that's not organic somebody did this and they assumed that this was likely done to
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protect whatever was inside from the effects of the weather the elements all the or anything that would come from the
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outside so they removed these slabs of stone which like personally I think was the first of their bad ideas I'm gonna
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agree um I think when when you find something that has been like purposely protected
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by slabs of stone in the side of a mystical Hill don't touch that just assume that it's meant to be there you
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know that expression like you break it you buy it that doesn't mean necessarily that like you purchase it it means like
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that's yours now that's yours and you [ __ ] up you own whatever's happening now you own the mistake that you've
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created little boys they didn't do that they didn't listen to heat our warnings from 1836 because they moved them really
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and inside they discovered a 12 inch by 12 inch depression in the earth so they're like what the [ __ ] is this so
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they look in and inside someone had placed 17 Lilliputian coffins 17. and these tiny coffins had been arranged in
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two tiers of eight each separated by a thin piece of slate and I know you're thinking two rows of eight is 16 because
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when I first read that I was like that's 16. I'm confused two rows of eight and then there was a third row that had
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begun with one okay yeah so to me I'm like was there supposed to be more probably somebody was like obviously
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putting more and starting a new row I need to know more yeah and then they got you can just leave and then breaking
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hair got caught is that what you're telling me I'm saying so the that origin story how they were found like that
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that's the one that is everywhere EV that is generally accepted as true how they were discovered okay
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um but it wasn't the only story at the time that was circulated there was a couple more
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um a short time after they were discovered there was another story that went into a journal a print Journal
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titled notes and queries and it was under the headline a fairy's burial place oh [ __ ] I kind of love that and
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like anytime you throw fairies into the mix I'm like oh okay let's go get into it yeah um and this one had a much more
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dramatic account of how they were found because that one's just like some boys were hunting rabbits and they went where
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they shouldn't have yeah but this one said in the print version while I was a resident at Edinburgh either in the year
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1836 or 1837 I forget which a curious Discovery took place which form the subject of a nine days wonder and a few
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newspaper paragraphs some children were at play at the foot of Salisbury Craig's
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when one of them more venturesome than the others attempted to ascend the escarpment of the cliff his foot slipped
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and to save himself from a dangerous fall he caught at a projecting piece of rock which appeared to be attached to
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the other portions of the cliff it gave way however beneath the pressure of his hand and although it broke his fall both
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he and it came to the bottom of the Craig nothing daunted sorry I had to swallow nothing daunted
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the Hardy boy got up shook himself and began the attempt a second time when he reached the point from Once the
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treacherous Rock had projected he found that it had merely masked the entrance to a large hole which had been dug into
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the face of the cliff okay so similar Discovery yeah boys just less boys just a boy falling off the side of a craggy
00:23:03
Cliff just actually I just thought we just added some adventure to the whole thing yeah and this version of the story
00:23:09
does add some more details about the coffins it says they have handles this isn't true and can be easily
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disproven by just looking at the actual coffins and seeing they don't have handles bro so it makes this one feel
00:23:22
more of like a jump off of that actual original Discovery and trying to make it more
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exciting which I'm like you didn't really the original one's pretty [ __ ] exciting I don't care what they were
00:23:32
they could have been going there to blow their noses and finding that and I'd be
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like that's [ __ ] awesome like that was legendary because they found 17 tiny coffins in the side of a [ __ ]
00:23:43
mystical Hill you don't have to spice that up yeah you don't have to give me some crazy story
00:23:51
s themselves were roughly 3.75 inches at length oh my very small in each coffin was hand carved out of a
00:24:00
single piece of pine okay with metal which they thought was most likely tin um kind of adorning the lids so they had
00:24:09
cut out tin and made like decorations on the lids of them so 10 metal and what other
00:24:14
um okay okay so and they were held this this tin was held in place with wire Springs or brass pins inside each coffin
00:24:24
was a hand carved wooden figure of a human and they were quote dressed in custom made clothes that had been
00:24:31
stitched and glued around them this is freaky as [ __ ] right and some of them had black boots painted on their feet
00:24:37
hey now it wasn't they they described them as not being like some kind of ancient artifact like how most ancient
00:24:46
artifacts are pretty crudely done yeah because differently materials and skill sets and all that
00:24:52
these appeared to have a pretty orderly and neat way about them um like someone had taken really great
00:25:00
care and meticulous time to do this to create them and to place them where they had put them
00:25:06
and they had not all been put into this little tomb at the same time and how could they tell
00:25:12
that so according to news reports quote the rotten and decayed state of the first tier of coffins and their wooden
00:25:20
mummies the wrapping clothes being in some cases moldy While others showed various degrees of comp decomposition
00:25:26
and the coffin last placed as clean and fresh as if only a day a few days had elapsed since their entombment oh wow
00:25:33
that's how they were able like that first tier was old and then it got less so as it went huh and that last row for
00:25:42
it to be that's creepy to me that someone could have just been there that's really creepy because imagine if
00:25:48
those boys had planned their hunting trip like days earlier and had caught the person doing that I wish they had
00:25:53
because that maybe we would know that I'm nervous like I'm kind of glad they didn't at the same time yeah because I'm
00:25:58
like what would have become of you yeah I don't know I mean they didn't they weren't really nice to the coffins they
00:26:03
weren't as boys um nobody really knows why or what they thought I don't know how old these boys
00:26:09
were either yeah they were like rambunctious but it's like also like um you should know better uh because they
00:26:15
nobody really knows what they thought when they found these um but the earliest Reports say that at
00:26:21
least half were destroyed by the boys pelting them at each other as unmeaning and contemptible Trifles
00:26:30
so boy so stupid yeah like what the [ __ ] on the record oh why are they so stupid
00:26:36
especially these boys so silly of course the discovery was obviously significant enough for at
00:26:44
least one of them to mention the coffin to somebody else or we wouldn't know about them at all yeah according to a
00:26:49
report from the mid-1950s the following day after the they were discovered way back in 1836 this was so we didn't find
00:26:57
out about this like how this all went down until the 1950s oh [ __ ] they said that the boys in one of the boys at
00:27:05
least told one of their school Masters a man named Mr Ferguson who was a member of a local archaeological society that
00:27:14
they had come across these it really is just taking everything in me right now not to say Turd Ferguson thank you
00:27:20
go ahead there you go you're like you're 12. she's like but you said it I told you so later that day Mr Ferguson a very
00:27:30
Scottish name he retrieved the remaining coffins from the cave and the Hillside and he took them home and then shared
00:27:36
them with other members of the archaeological Society because once he had heard this story from the kid he's
00:27:41
like are you [ __ ] kidding me yeah like I can't imagine how pissed he was hearing that they had broken half of
00:27:46
these seriously I feel like are you kidding me have I taught you nothing like you just tossed them around like
00:27:51
they were trash what a bunch of idiots now it should be said that the original accounts of this whole Discovery don't
00:27:57
mention a school teacher and they don't provide any details about how those coffins went from Arthur C to the town
00:28:04
below but I believe in Ferguson well it's so the original one doesn't say it but we know they somehow got from A to B
00:28:12
and then in the 1950s that's when the story came out about Mr Ferguson the local archaeological Society you know
00:28:20
all that stuff and it was in an article by Robert Chapman that was circulated among the
00:28:26
regional Scottish papers at the time that according to Mike Dash who I will um I'm going to put the the reference
00:28:36
there we go for what this is for he said a search of the Contemporary street directory shows that two School Masters
00:28:43
named Ferguson were working in Edinburgh in 1836 okay George Ferguson as a Classics Master at Edinburgh Academy and
00:28:51
Findlay Ferguson as a teacher of English and math at Easter duddingston I want it
00:28:57
to be Findlay so I know I love that name so it so there were two Mr Ferguson's in
00:29:02
the area at that time working as school teachers so that this life sucks yeah now it wasn't long after they'd been dug
00:29:09
out of the hillside that the Edinburgh press jumped on this mystery of these tiny little coffins so they of course
00:29:16
put forward a ton of theories the Scotsman reported a few day days after the discovery quote none of the Learned
00:29:23
with whom we have conversed on the subject can account in any way for the singular fantasy of the human mind and
00:29:30
in the article they said our own opinion would be had we not some years ago objured Witchcraft and demonology that
00:29:37
these are still some of the weird sisters hovering about muscats Karn or the or the windy gowl who retain their
00:29:45
ancient power to work the Spells Of Death by entombing the likenesses of those they wish to destroy literally
00:29:52
love I right I'm saying I think it's Karen I think I said Carn it was Cairn muskats can now I immediately wanted to
00:30:01
know what muscats Karen is I don't know about you I do uh so I looked it up just
00:30:06
gotta talk about what muscat's can is and why that makes any sense why this would be like a weird thing so at the
00:30:13
eastern part of holyrood Park there's a seemingly innocuous to this day pile of rocks that is actually a Cairn a Cairn
00:30:23
serves as some kind of landmark or Memorial it's like a pile of rocks in this case I suppose it's both
00:30:30
because see on October 17 1720 a surgeon named nickel Muscat he lured his 17 year
00:30:39
old wife Margaret into that spot and murdered her In Cold Blood well [ __ ] him slit her throat Jesus Christ her dying
00:30:47
words were my love my love do not murder me yeah oh I'm saying no he had an accomplice in the crime named Campbell
00:30:55
who apparently was sent to Australia after this I really want you to do this next right it's a while I'm intrigued he
00:31:01
had apparently been trying to get rid of his wife and or kill her for a while but
00:31:06
had failed several times he tried to force infidelity on her to force a divorce at first what and when that
00:31:13
didn't work like he'd tried to like get her drunk and like throw a man at her he
00:31:17
wanted to make her Infidel yeah so that he could divorce her without like having
00:31:21
any kind of like issues because back then you couldn't just divorce yeah no I know so it's like he wanted the
00:31:26
infidelity thing to be like oh she cheated on me wow and it's like that's weird but then when that didn't work he
00:31:33
tried to poison her and only ended up making her extremely ill he did that several times then he tried to get her
00:31:39
super drunk and drown her in a pond he then planned to have her he put her on horseback
00:31:47
and was going to tie her like not well into the saddle and have her horse his horse like flip her off and kill her
00:31:55
what the [ __ ] that's not even like I can't read either he just didn't like her he had grown weary of her
00:32:02
weary of her yeah I'm just some kind of over it I'm tired of it can't you leave her for no reason that's why he was
00:32:08
trying to force just a lie I'm saying like I'd rather be a liar than a murderer a vicious murderer for real he
00:32:15
confessed after he actually killed her at this Muscat now what is now called muscats Karen
00:32:22
um I wish it wasn't named after this [ __ ] I know and he confessed and during his confession he said he never
00:32:28
loved her and was ashamed of her visiting him before they were married right like he like further shits on her
00:32:36
memory name this after to her right and that's the thing like it's kind of lost to history her name like it's Margaret
00:32:42
Margaret Hall what was her name oh but it's like that's that's not part of the thing it's frustrating name it Maggie's
00:32:49
case uh Karen Karen yeah and he said he married her out of convenience he's a [ __ ] pig but he was hanged for his
00:32:58
crime in Grass Market in Edinburgh and like Scandal the Cairn right the Cairn was created in her honor good so and it
00:33:05
still remains there you can see it didn't like name it something else what's sad is like that's the place she
00:33:10
was murdered like that very place where that Karen is gosh but that was just interesting to me but back to the
00:33:16
coffins shall we wow uh other newspapers quickly joined the speculation for what
00:33:22
these little uh lilipetian coffins excuse me wrong it's a little excuse me I know that's such a good word I know uh
00:33:33
the Dundee Courier suggested that maybe they were an example of an ancient custom in Saxony in which one would bury
00:33:40
a miniature miniature Effigy for departed friends who had died in a distant land that's beautiful which is
00:33:46
beautiful but The Courier couldn't help um put forth like another romanticized version of this Theory got a solid
00:33:54
papers baby of course saying and this is also just like what we find out is not true
00:33:59
um they said that it could be a Superstition which exists among some Sailors in this country where the wives
00:34:05
of the sailors who had been lost at sea would bury a tiny like proxy it's basically
00:34:13
um to cut to kind of like make a Christian burial oh like happen yeah yeah so they could actually like if they
00:34:20
developed you know like it just kind of like it's like an effigy I like that now
00:34:24
a watch was kept on the hillside at Arthur's seat for days after the discover Discovery because they knew
00:34:29
that last one had been placed there rather recently but now it's all over the papers that it's been discovered
00:34:34
thank you and that's why I'm like guys yeah good planning you ruined it no additional coffins were placed of course
00:34:41
because it had already been [ __ ] out there this person's reading the papers come on now within a few weeks of the
00:34:47
discovery The public's interest apparently kind of like died down what the [ __ ] happened to make their interest
00:34:54
done which I'm like shocked because I'm still not over it like since 2023 and I'm not over it something had to have
00:35:00
happened but apparently the coffins what were left of them made their way into the private collection of Robert Frazier
00:35:07
who was an Edinburgh jeweler at this time Robert Frazier apparently he bought them
00:35:13
I guess but he displayed the coffins in his private Museum on South Andrews Street and then he retired in 1845 they
00:35:21
were there all the way up until there um and then he quote the celebrated Lilliputian coffins found on Arthur's
00:35:27
seat sold to a private buyer for just four pounds how much is that that's like four almost five bucks American oh
00:35:35
that's it okay I'm gonna do the conversion now once they went into the hands of this
00:35:45
private buyer they kind of disappeared for a while no one knew what really happened to them oh that was until more
00:35:53
than 50 years later so the coffins appeared again in 1901. okay this was when a private donor actually
00:36:03
ended up gifting eight of them to the Museum of the Society of Antiquities of Scotland oh that's a beautiful thing to
00:36:10
say in Scotland you know I just love all these words yeah um this would eventually become the
00:36:16
national Museum's the national the national museum of Scotland uh there's no way to know
00:36:25
like basically how much how or exactly who donated these I'm sure the museums yeah they probably passed hands like so
00:36:34
many times yeah and basically like at first because of this a lot of people were like are they the actual coffins or
00:36:41
these like you know something else but apparently according to Smithsonian Magazine it said circumstantial evidence
00:36:48
strongly suggests that these coffins were the same group as the one Frasier turned obtained in 1930 1836
00:36:56
um and that's really all they're going off of I trust the Smithsonian yeah I trust them so I think it's right
00:37:02
um but the coffins coming back into the fold kind of it sparked a new interest in them again finally people were
00:37:10
finally thinking about it get Adam again because I'm really sad that they like just fell off for God
00:37:15
these are fascinating they were found in the side of a mystical [ __ ] craggy Rock let that go how do we just like
00:37:22
lose interest in it but that speaks to the [ __ ] Human Condition um but it wasn't long before they were
00:37:32
back in the news again so in 1906 five years after they had been donated there was an article that appeared in the
00:37:39
Scotsman and it proposed a new and very unverifiable Theory as to their Origins but according to the article a woman
00:37:49
living in Edinburgh at the time said that shortly after they were found her father who was only called Mr B
00:37:56
had been visited several times at his business by a quote Daft man and during one of these visits the man produced a
00:38:05
hand-drawn picture of three small coffins under those coffins were written the dates 1837 1838 1840.
00:38:14
now there was no context or explanation so Mr B just kind of dismissed this picture as like you know just Mr B this
00:38:22
is just crazy yeah he's just like and so whatever but the following year 1837 a relative of Mr B died and who knows
00:38:32
another B Mr C um and this was followed by the death of another relative in 1938
00:38:37
Mr D and then the death of his brother in eight or excuse me it was 1838 and then the death of his brother in 1840.
00:38:45
now according to the man's daughter the mysterious man that came with this picture
00:38:51
um he appeared at her father's business shortly after his brother's funeral and was quote glowering at him before
00:38:57
disappearing and was never seen again so they believe basically the Scotsman said that it is not possible is it not
00:39:06
possible that this man was the maker of the Arthur C coffins driven mad by the loss of his treasures or was the whole
00:39:13
story nothing but coincidences so they think that this whole thing somehow is connected to the things that
00:39:19
this guy was making these little Treasures right they were discovered possibly that was the private donor who
00:39:25
had them he was pissed and you know uh maybe I mean it's not like totally Unthinkable but there's just not enough
00:39:32
yeah there there's better theories one of which includes Birkin here but you're like that's my [ __ ] Theory that's my
00:39:40
favorite now throughout the 20th century the coffins continued to make huge Fantastical theories crop up everywhere
00:39:48
a lot of Supernatural explanations like in 1978 Walter haverneck who was the director of the Museum of Hamburg
00:39:55
history he suggested the coffins could be kind of a Talisman like the totems carried by German Sailors for luck
00:40:04
now according to German folklore Sailors would carry mandrake root or some form of a doll in a small coffin as a
00:40:11
protection at sea oh that's cool and he theorized that these Arthur C coffins could be quote a horde of Lucky Charms
00:40:19
hidden in the hillside by a merchant to be sold to Sailors all right this all sounds great that kind of like okay yeah
00:40:26
maybe yeah but the national museum of Scotland pointed out that quote while the use of charms persisted in Scotland
00:40:33
well into the 19th century no evidence of this particular seafaring tradition has ever been found so I think well that
00:40:40
sounds like it would have been a good a good little thing it was made up that's not a real tradition that's a bummer so
00:40:46
I kind of love it because although that's like a nice like fun I love a seafaring spooky
00:40:52
sailor siren song tradition for sure like any of those stories are fun like that song Brandy
00:40:59
I don't know what that is yeah you do it's a I can't sing it right now because I have Florence and the Machine stuck in
00:41:04
my head but we can just move faster okay cool I'm sure I know what it is but I'll
00:41:08
just send it to you later when I can't you know when a song is stuck in your head yeah and you can't get past it
00:41:12
you're a fine girl such a fine wife you would be but my life my love for my lady
00:41:18
is the sea I've literally never heard that in my entire life do you absolutely have Papa loves that song and then it
00:41:25
goes I'm I'm probably not doing a good job I wish you guys could see the head motion that's happening right now like
00:41:36
it's very much like a Night at the Roxbury yeah I'm gonna have to find it on is it on
00:41:44
Spotify of course it's on Spotify I'll play it for you later and you're gonna be like oh I didn't know if this was
00:41:50
like a salty sailor tune that I couldn't find on Spotify about a sailor because the the his his life his lover his lady
00:41:58
is yeah she has it did yes she is she like brandy you should work something bar I don't know
00:42:35
like that kind of [ __ ] I'm like I'm into it and I love oh I know you know the song it sounds
00:42:43
familiar now I don't know hold on it's sounding a little familiar oh yeah but I never I I didn't know any
00:42:55
of the lyrics to that song really yeah all right well I thought it was going to be a sea shanty that you were yelling at
00:43:02
me no it's just about a sailor that's all a sailor who likes this girl who works
00:43:06
at a bar but he can't be with her see I'm like I like those old timey like like when we did um we put a sea shanty
00:43:14
in one of our exactly like my house um we did like um yeah for those ones I think we did some sea shanty things but
00:43:21
that's I like those I like like a legend like a seafaring Legend yeah I like a seafaring monster I like a siren oh my
00:43:29
God Nessie I mean I'm not let's see I'm on the lizard today you like you love a sea serpent a lake monster if you will I
00:43:38
I like those kind of things so that's fun to me I like that theory but it's not as
00:43:43
troubling as the Birkin hair one would be yeah I'm nervous about like where like yeah yeah are we gonna yeah now so
00:43:53
because they were so popular and that people were so kind of like obsessed with them for a while and there was such
00:43:59
a mystery surrounding these it's pretty surprising that like throughout the decades and decades that they were
00:44:05
trying to figure out what these were no one really performed any kind of thorough analysis of the Arthur C
00:44:10
coffins like they just they were like I wonder what these are yeah huh then they would
00:44:16
just like throw them off to the side and it's like do you guys want to like science it a little bit like just on
00:44:22
maybe not a lot of science going on someone put on some glasses and just take a closer peek at these well I bet
00:44:27
Ferguson did I you know I'm sure he did just like maybe didn't write down enough
00:44:31
info it wasn't until the 90s Kevin it was the 90s yeah I'm talking about the 1990s [ __ ] that anyone really gave these
00:44:41
their due attention so the examination of the remaining Arthur C coffins was done in the early 1990s by Alan Simpson
00:44:50
who was the former president of the royal Scottish Society of Arts [ __ ] he was joined by Samuel Menifee a senior
00:44:57
associate of the center Center for National Security Law at the University of Virginia [ __ ] both of them were
00:45:04
visiting fellows at the school of Scottish studies at the University of Edinburgh at the time [ __ ] there you go
00:45:10
I had to wait for the that now they all looked pretty identical but Simpson and Menifee did note that there were some
00:45:18
some variations look at them so the dimensions did vary a little bit in size from 3.7 to 4.1 inches long anywhere
00:45:27
within that thing they would vary I wonder why uh 0.7 to 1.2 inches wide and 0.8 to 1 inch deep
00:45:36
so that's like so little that I thought it could have just been like hey I made this one I put it in the hill I'm doing
00:45:43
this one off of memory yeah I'm like a little off right to me that's the thing there's a lot of these things where I'm
00:45:49
like well I think it's this I'm gonna ask a question who knows if I'll have the answer really do you know if they
00:45:55
had rulers back then when did the ruler rulers were like I mean they had ruler instruments yeah long ago okay so that
00:46:03
was my question but but I don't know when I don't know when that began like what year an action when did the rulers
00:46:09
really get popular when did the rulers start to rule is what I wanted to know oh my God that's what I want to know
00:46:17
um what they also found out was that most of the coffins insides were made of rag fiber cloth but one was lined with
00:46:25
paper huh which was interesting um two of the coffins were originally painted pink or red okay
00:46:34
they generally were two kind of shapes most had square cut corners but three had rounded Corners which could suggest
00:46:42
two things to me they think it suggests that more than one person did it okay which absolutely
00:46:48
could be true like Burke and hair or it could be that well I don't think both of
00:46:53
them did it either but or it could be that like we were just saying the variations in these things are like well
00:47:00
I just put one in the hillside a couple weeks ago yeah I'm gonna do this one I don't remember if I rounded off the
00:47:05
edges or not sure I think we're not giving people enough credit for being silly somewhat lazy
00:47:12
and inconsistent as humans I think we're just not giving us that much I think we're like it must be more than one
00:47:19
person it's like no it could just be the same yeah inconsistent [ __ ] you know super inconsistent so I get it it
00:47:25
happens now the dolls contained within the coffins did appear to come from a set of figures with flat feet and arms
00:47:31
that would swing so they thought that those could have been Toy Soldiers originally I'm gonna have that stuck in
00:47:38
my head now I immediately did yeah uh we're getting so soon the eyes figure were open
00:47:47
oh I don't like that which they said made it unlikely that they were designed as Corpses
00:47:53
yeah I don't think I agree because almost every corpse I worked on in the morgue had open eyes really yeah I hate
00:48:02
that when people die a lot of times their eyes stay open yep they sure do and if these are designed as Corpses
00:48:10
than this person who made them might have seen these people when they died and their eyes were open yeah I'm just
00:48:16
saying we can't totally be like I don't think these were corpses guys the eyes were open like I don't think that's yeah
00:48:21
we need a little we can't completely discount that as a thing now some of the figurines were also
00:48:26
missing their arms they believe that maybe they were removed so they would fit better into
00:48:31
the coffins my opinion maybe it was representative of injury or dismemberment but that's just my sick
00:48:39
ass mind murder victims perhaps or just dead people then maybe they're being representative of what injuries they had
00:48:51
perhaps I don't know I'm just saying my mind is a weird place but I bet it is it
00:48:56
is it's a strange place you don't really want to be in there but when it came to
00:49:00
identifying who might have carved the coffins there was really no clues no for an actual identity but they were able to
00:49:08
take a little bit from some of the adornments like the tin adornments on the coffin Lids because they said that
00:49:16
um it's the use of Applied pieces of tinned iron as decoration which struck them and it's similar similar to the
00:49:22
type of tin used in contemporary shoe buckles so shoe buckles you say this could mean
00:49:28
thank you that it could be someone who was a Shoemaker or a leather worker I don't know if everybody remembers this
00:49:36
Berkey Burke Burke Burke was a Shoemaker him right he was a cobbler but I have a
00:49:44
the I have something to you know that's something to say so a Shoemaker they were saying would have the skills to
00:49:51
make these coffins but they weren't a carpenter they didn't have carpentry tools so they wouldn't have made them as
00:49:58
perfect and identical as you would think and that's why maybe they're a little inconsistent now when it came to the
00:50:05
figures themselves they said that they still think that these are supposed to be like toys of
00:50:11
some kind or representative of living people this is what they initially thought and not you know Effigies for
00:50:17
dead people um because they said that they could see strong lines across some of their brows
00:50:21
which indicated that they had hats at one point oh and that there was carefully carved lower bodies formed to
00:50:28
indicate tight knee breaches and hose below which the feet are blackened to indicate ankle boots I still think these
00:50:35
could be dead bodies I don't see why that changes things I don't think so if they were originally toy soldiers that
00:50:40
they changed into these little dolls then they maybe removed a helmet or hat of sure sort and that's what those are
00:50:46
from agreed but uh Simpson and Menifee use the figure's appearances to date them back to 1790s
00:50:54
at the earliest oh wow now the clothing on the figures which apparently had been
00:50:58
like sewn and glued into place like very carefully it represented a style of dress that didn't
00:51:05
correlate to period grave clothing so they said it's it was looked like it was supposed to be representative of
00:51:14
everyday wear and not like funeral wear like what somebody died in thank you because they said that they were
00:51:21
probably done just to cover the figures decently and not to represent any kind of specific period or occasion but if
00:51:28
they were murder victims like you said then they would be dressed in the clothing that they died in guys they
00:51:32
wouldn't be in Proper Burial clothing and if they were broken hairs victims I would think that they probably all had
00:51:38
similar shoes because they all came from a similar place exactly and if you look
00:51:43
at the pictures of these little little dudes they when I first read the description I was like oh so they have
00:51:49
like clothing when you look at it you're like clothing is a loose term like a coverings I would say okay that were
00:51:56
glued and sewn on yeah I keep meaning to look at pictures yeah it's like so the rag cloth lining of the coffins was
00:52:02
dated to the period after 1780. okay but the pair they believed that all the coffins were created probably no earlier
00:52:10
than 1800s and and they said that the deposit into the hillside they believed wasn't done until after 1830
00:52:21
um and they said so that kind of makes sense because that would be within five years of the discovery yeah which is
00:52:26
when that first tier makes sense that it wouldn't put in there so Naomi turant who is the curator of
00:52:32
European textiles at the national museum of Scotland she said that based on relatively good condition of the Fabrics
00:52:38
that they were definitely buried in the early 1830s okay yes and in several of the cases they were sewn using three-ply
00:52:49
thread which wouldn't have been manufactured until after 1812 so this does line up okay now in the conclusion
00:52:57
of their report on the analysis of these little coffins Alan Simpson and Samuel Menifee noted
00:53:05
quote that the problem with the various theories is their concentration on motivation rather than on the event or
00:53:11
events that caused the internments the former will always be open to argument but if the burials were event driven by
00:53:18
say the loss of a ship with 17 fatalities During the period in question the speculation would be at least be
00:53:25
built on demonstratable fact stated another way what we seek is an Edinburgh related event or events involving 17
00:53:33
deaths which occurred close to 1830 and certainly before 1836. go ahead one obvious answer Springs to mind the
00:53:43
Westport murders by William Burke and William Herron 1827 and 1828. yep these are creepy as [ __ ] very creepy and
00:53:52
follow so I'm going to give you a quick little like like lesson silver lesson of
00:53:57
Birkin hair in case you didn't listen to it you should go listen to it in case you're here and you're like oh [ __ ] I
00:54:02
want to finish this first and then go listen to that yeah yeah um so following the death of a border at William Harris
00:54:07
lodging house in November of 1827 and this will be quick don't worry if you've already listened to the episode
00:54:12
birkenhair realize as you know what it's a sign of the times we can make a ton of
00:54:18
money selling corpses to the Edinburgh Medical College this was a very big thing at the time they were called
00:54:23
Resurrection men these people who did this um and they prompted this prompted the
00:54:28
two of them to go on a murder spree because what is you know why wait for people to die why not just murder them
00:54:34
and they killed at least 16 people and sold their bodies to local surgeon and instructor Dr Robert Knox now birkenhair
00:54:42
and remember they killed 16 people sold that first one that is 17 altogether sure is Birkin hair were eventually
00:54:49
caught when a lodger in William Burke's House discovered the body of an elderly women woman that they had killed and
00:54:54
they they both confessed to the murders of 16 people but hair definitely blamed Burke it was a whole thing definitely
00:55:01
listen to it it's very interesting what happened with them um so they were they confessed to the
00:55:07
murders of 16 people in the unlawful sale of the body of the lodger at the boarding house and given that they were
00:55:13
all marginalized as people that were victims Simpson and Menifee think that the coffins could have served as like a
00:55:19
proper burial at Arthur's seat because these people wouldn't have gotten a proper burial to begin with I think I
00:55:25
see where you're going he said considering beliefs such as the alleged mimic burial given to Scottish Sailors
00:55:31
lost at sea it would not be unreasonable for some person or persons in the absence of the 17 dissected bodies to
00:55:39
wish to perpetuate these dead the majority of whom were murdered in atrocious circumstances by a form of
00:55:45
burial to set their Spirits at rest that makes sense well it is always possible that that other disasters could have
00:55:51
resulted in an identical identical casual identical I don't know why that was hard to say casualty list the
00:55:58
Westport murders would appear to be a logical motivating force now in 2005 producers from the National
00:56:05
Geographic Channel they convinced the curators at the Museum to allow forensic science service expert Mike Barber to
00:56:13
test the coffins for potential trace DNA they were hoping to match it to Burke basically so they have some of his DNA
00:56:22
they have his body um so they have his skeleton I didn't oh yeah now the tests on the coffins didn't
00:56:31
turn up any trace DNA that they could use which is sad and neither did the figures but and the museum wouldn't
00:56:39
allow Barbara to take the kind of samples that he would usually use for that kind of analysis so it's like not
00:56:45
really even a really good test really right and they would have to take DNA from the skeleton of William
00:56:52
Burke and he is kept under lock and key at Edinburgh University or did I forget that I don't think I
00:57:00
mentioned it in that episode um or maybe I did I'm not sure but either way they weren't going to let him
00:57:05
do that because they're not going to let them you know denigrate that DNA now despite the DNA test finding absolutely
00:57:13
nothing quote unquote Mike Barber is pretty convinced that it was Burke who created the coffins
00:57:21
and I think it's it makes sense so he said I think it's pretty clear he told this to the Edinburgh Evening News the
00:57:29
people I've spoken to during filming believe that it was hair who was the real bad one yeah was easily LED and
00:57:37
copped to it when he was shopped by hair yeah what they believe is that basically
00:57:43
William Burke had some kind of guilt and was making these to give them properties to give
00:57:50
them a proper burial and sorry was he the Shoemaker he was the Shoemaker that's all I could say the entire time
00:57:57
and while it's possible that they could have been placed there by Burke yeah or hair
00:58:06
about it I think there's a better theory that is still connected to William Burke okay
00:58:12
William here so William Burke was tried and executed not very long after her his
00:58:18
arrest for the 16th murder so that was my problem that's that's the part that gets me I was like when
00:58:24
especially like that last one is what you're saying right exactly and William Hare as well as both of their ladies
00:58:33
um they were run out of Scotland by an angry mob as soon as they were released from police custody so it's pretty
00:58:39
unlikely that they would have been able to place them there right without somebody seeing them and killing them
00:58:43
but another similar explanation was offered in 2005 by George um dagliash I believe it is a curate I
00:58:53
know right he's a curator of the Scottish of Scottish history at the national museum of Scotland and he said
00:58:59
he thinks the coffins were made by a close associate of Birkin hare who quote had a strong motive to make amends for
00:59:06
their crimes the the doctor the possible explanation put forth by dagley dagliosh I'm sorry
00:59:15
uh seems very plausible and it is that Dr Robert Knox called it to whom the bodies were sold he stayed in Edinburgh
00:59:25
for many years we talked about this after Burke's execution he presumably felt some kind of guilt for his
00:59:32
participation in the whole thing and before his arrest and execution actually William Burke like we said was a
00:59:39
Shoemaker so he would have had acquaintances with other shoemakers yeah who could have done this but either way
00:59:46
either a Shoemaker who knew about what was going on and worked with Burke or Dr will bought Dr Robert Knox makes so much
00:59:56
sense to me yeah because we don't know really much else about Dr Knox and like what his Hobbies were and things like
01:00:01
that exactly we don't know I I kind of I like the Knox Theory I do too I think it really makes it's like him
01:00:10
making amends for it and it makes sense and I kind of it kind of makes me feel better yeah it would it would honestly
01:00:16
be like not that it's not that it like it doesn't sense but like it would be at least something they're like a point too
01:00:22
because you're like I'm glad you had some kind of conscience yeah like you felt guilt now
01:00:29
they do point to one thing that could stray away from this Theory but I don't think it's an issue to be honest they
01:00:36
said no fewer than 12 of birkenhair's victims were female we know that but they said the clothed bodies found in
01:00:42
the coffins were dressed in male attire the clothings used to dress the figures definitely were like crude and not like
01:00:51
fully closed and in my opinion much more crude than they're giving them credit for yeah um but they said that they
01:00:56
would have been pretty easy for them to put a dress on it rather than pants in a
01:01:01
shirt but if you look at it they kind of just put onesies on all of them they really just covered up their limbs yeah
01:01:07
with cloth yeah I agree and to be honest a lot of these victims were found were brought to Knox
01:01:16
naked so it's like he wanted it feels like they it was just kind of a like they closed these dolls in very
01:01:27
very simplistic shrouds yeah a little bit like that's what it looks like to me if you look
01:01:33
them up that's what it looks like to me that's what they are neither I don't believe they are uh gendered clothing I
01:01:39
believe they're very like just down the middle could be either I agree with you and it's also
01:01:45
really hard to tell on most it's just like fabric a lot of them have like molded away exactly so you don't know oh
01:01:51
these things freak me out they're really creepy this the one that's um specifically terrifies me is wrapped up
01:01:57
in like all white and this the figure's eyes are still so prominent I know it's so creepy yeah yeah
01:02:05
now and they also pointed out that you know 17 bodies were sold by Birkin hair but they only kill confess to killing
01:02:13
16. but I don't think that's an issue because of it because body yeah and it's to me that makes sense because you have
01:02:21
the two rows of eight which would be who they killed and then you have that one standing alone which to me makes it
01:02:28
interesting yeah like that's the lodger yeah that's the beginning but they put it as the end I think it's I think it's
01:02:34
definitely related to birken hair I don't know who I believe did it but I definitely think it's related right it
01:02:40
just makes sense yeah now the scientific analysis of the Arthur C coffins was definitely able to
01:02:46
reveal like a pretty good deal about the construction of them the time period where they were made and it gave a
01:02:53
little bit of insight into the type of person who likely would have been able to make them but it didn't really
01:02:59
explain their original purpose yeah that's what everybody was trying to figure out and it kind of only like
01:03:05
deepened the mystery and when you connect it to Birkin hair it almost makes it more mysterious because it's
01:03:10
like what was the purpose of these was it to give them a proper burial like I need to know what they were or was like
01:03:18
was this somebody you remember if you go back to the episode they involved a few
01:03:24
people in their scheme yep and it's like were these people who felt guilt were these people who were involved in it and
01:03:29
decided to do this as some like weird like count of the victims you know what I mean like yeah it could mean a lot of
01:03:37
different things it definitely could but the other thing that I can think of is that um the guy who was involved in that
01:03:43
one murder with them and that maybe that one coffin could represent that one that's true it definitely could but I'm
01:03:50
I lean more toward the the 16 that they did that they murdered and then the one yeah they sold that was natural yep but
01:03:58
despite their inability to actually solve the mystery like concretely yet right uh the Arthur C coffins are like
01:04:06
still so popular and yeah and by late 2000 the Scottish tourism industry began to like really embrace
01:04:15
Scotland's dark history and dark tourism and they would like cater to people who
01:04:21
were interested in the Birkin hair case Mary Queen of Scots the hellfire club like all that stuff we I need Americans
01:04:28
close Mary King's close um and this was really just like tourism but in 2000 actually a popular Scottish
01:04:37
crime novelist Ian Rankin he decided to incorporate the coffins into his novel oh [ __ ] which I think is cool that is
01:04:44
cool um it's called The Falls and he entered he was introduced to them at the Royal Museum in Edinburgh and he said
01:04:51
quote this curator pulled me aside and said here you like this kind of stuff and he showed me the coffins I was just
01:04:59
knocked out by them by the idea that these small objects could generate so much mystery for so long yeah I love
01:05:04
that he put them in a novel I think that's cool wicked cool and in 2018 the coffins actually came back into like
01:05:11
Front Page News this time there was a claim that the mystery had been solved so after he'd spent months studying the
01:05:20
case a Scottish American writer and amateur historian Jeff Nisbet claimed that the coffins were definitely a
01:05:27
memorial to the event this event known as a radical war of 1820. this wasn't really a war it was more like an
01:05:35
uprising okay but it refers to a period of civil disobedience in 1820. which was
01:05:42
motivated basically by bad working conditions for Laborers and they were basically commencing an uprising to call
01:05:50
for improved working conditions more rights among several other things sure and they came to the uprisings came to
01:05:56
an end pretty quickly not long after they started and it was when three leaders of the movement were executed
01:06:02
for their activities and many others were sent to a penal colony in October in Australia I don't know I said October
01:06:09
um but the following year a group of unemployed Weavers were put to work by the crown building a path around
01:06:16
Arthur's seat and it was going to be known as radical Road I want to live there in a radical Road
01:06:22
and according to Nisbet the coffins he thinks were placed in the small cave in this place where these Weavers were
01:06:31
making were doing labor building the path around Arthur's seat they were put in this small cave as a coated Memento
01:06:37
to the ideals behind the labor struggles in Edinburgh okay an interview with the
01:06:43
herald he said by the time the coffins were discovered the Rebellion had been largely largely forgotten saved perhaps
01:06:50
by those who whose loved ones had been either lost by The Hangman's noose or a ship Bound for Australia and so it's my
01:06:57
theory that the artifacts raise on debt was to honor the radicals and that they were later resurrected in an attempt to
01:07:04
keep the flame of rebellion lit and a land too quick to forget an attempt that ultimately failed
01:07:10
hmm as evidence for this theory he says quote all appear to be male and have their eyes open represent men men not
01:07:18
dead yet sure maybe yeah another clue can be found in their clothes made by from a
01:07:24
type of cloth the Weavers would have been familiar with okay interesting his theory suggests that he's here it's like
01:07:33
he's definitely familiar with that time period this is a good theory yeah the fact that he's able to like say that the
01:07:40
cloth is pretty representative of what these Weavers that were there at the time building this path would have been
01:07:46
able to work with all of that makes sense the fact that they're you know technically they think that there are a
01:07:53
bunch of male dolls but I think that's really like a loose yeah confirmation I agree with that and that their eyes are
01:08:00
open like sure you can you can definitely put it in there and make it fit it's a decent one but
01:08:06
I think experts are pretty unconvinced by this like PR the principal curator of the national museum of Scotland's
01:08:14
Scottish history David Forsythe told the Heralds I wouldn't scoff at this Theory and it's
01:08:20
interesting to hear another idea about where the coffins come from but Mr nisbet's ideas outside the established
01:08:27
Canon that surrounds the coffin coffins and I think that the connection to the victims of birken hair Remains the most
01:08:33
likely explanation I agree so even the principal curator of the national museum of Scotland's Scottish history thinks
01:08:40
that there is a connection to Broken hair then I'd put my money on it and to me nisbet's Theory I think is a great
01:08:46
one yeah I think it's like when you put it all together you're like all right yeah for sure and if it actually ended
01:08:53
up being the origin story I'd be like you know what that makes sense I believe that still a cool origin story but I
01:09:00
can't I think it's broken hair related I think that it's the 17. well he didn't explain the 17. I was waiting for that
01:09:07
part of me too so you got the three the leaders who were killed you know I'm sure there was more than 17
01:09:15
people involved that's the thing so I'm like What's the 17. and why would they be placed at different times exactly
01:09:22
it's like I don't know why is one alone yeah that doesn't make sense to me so nearly two centuries after they were
01:09:29
found in that mystical Hillside in Hollywood Park the Arthur's damn it I almost said it again the at the seat
01:09:37
coffins remain much a mystery to this day as they were that day that they were pulled out when those kids were either
01:09:45
rabbit hunting or free climbing a cliff who knows what they were doing um but the that analysis that was done
01:09:54
in the 90s was really the only thing that gave us any insight about when and by Maybe by whom they were created they
01:10:02
should try to do something now that like technology has advanced even more I want
01:10:06
to keep looking into this I feel like we can figure this out and the the real the
01:10:10
big theory for their creation is definitely the connection to the broken hair the 17 just sticks to me I think it
01:10:17
sticks to everybody else it's a plausible Theory um but either way no matter what they were they were
01:10:26
totems that were tucked away in a secret location carved out of an ancient volcano that
01:10:35
alone is all you really need to tell people and it's like put a period right at the end of that sentence was it wise
01:10:41
to remove them ready ready say it with me no I don't think I won't take things from ancient
01:10:51
places one more time we don't take things from ancient places maybe just you know don't touch that
01:11:01
peek in you can peek in take a look see you know what you do you got one of those little Dental mirrors where they
01:11:07
it's like the big long mirror that they can look in the back of your mouth with yeah stick it in there
01:11:12
oh and maybe take a little picture if you want to maybe even that's kind of going far but then get out of there
01:11:20
scoot on out get out of there go I wonder what those are just say whoa I saw those and that's the thing crazy
01:11:25
that would be my ideal situation with this because I think like I don't know what these were and I don't know if it
01:11:30
was a good idea to move them who even knows if men placed them there in the first there you go maybe it was Beast
01:11:37
maybe it was Faye maybe it was Faye maybe these are fairy coffins I don't know I don't know maybe we don't know
01:11:45
did we [ __ ] around and find out maybe we didn't find anything out that was the
01:11:49
problem but maybe we like [ __ ] around and found out like we didn't find out the things we wanted to find we found
01:11:55
out we found out yeah dude like I don't know and that's it but now that we have removed them and it's been you know a
01:12:03
little bit maybe we should put them back maybe we should I don't know I don't I don't think that's how it works though I
01:12:07
don't think it's like gives these backseats I think like I think they are like I don't we don't play that way yeah
01:12:13
they probably don't but like if it's not fun maybe in centuries my guy no gives these back season maybe it's like
01:12:18
leprechaun and like gives you you know but I think now that we have them out of the uh ancient volcano on a
01:12:28
mystical Arthur's seat we've already [ __ ] around it we [ __ ] around so now let's find out I'd like to I'd like to
01:12:34
find out what these are I think we should keep looking into them I'd like more to come out because a lot of people
01:12:39
are like we will never know and it's like that I don't think so I thought that about a million gajillion things I
01:12:45
thought we'd never figure out Summerton man here exactly I think we'll have so many things yeah every every problem has
01:12:51
an answer there you go that's part of Snoop Dogg's Snoop Dogg's affirmations for kids they're great you should do
01:12:58
them if you want affirmations for kids there you go they're really fun my kids love them yeah we listened to that song
01:13:03
so many times that's an answer yeah yeah anything is possible there you go fine my family loves me
01:13:12
things matter I love it but yeah so uh that's the story of the Arthur C coffins uh they're they're Wily in like a coyote
01:13:21
I think we're gonna figure out what they are and I think it's gonna be either Birkin hair related or Fey related I
01:13:27
agree that's just me that's where I'm at too so so thanks for listening yeah we hope you keep it
01:13:41
yeah I think that's been the not so weird a lot lately but definitely not so rude that you take anything from an
01:13:46
ancient Place put it yeah put it back keep it so weird that you listen to your mama's over here and you put it back
01:13:53
look with your eyes not with your hands yes okay friends yes yes yes [Music] thank you
01:14:08
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