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Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. This is indeed very morbid today.
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>> Yeah. Elena has been sifting through discovery documents for the last 6 hours.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. I did it all night last night, too. I had weird dreams because of it.
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>> I didn't even sift through discovery documents. I just knew that we were doing this case. So, I was kind of like
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watching um obviously, you know, this is the Chris Watts case cuz you've clicked
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on it. >> Yeah. Part one of the Chris Watts case. >> Part one. We watched some of the
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paranormal stuff that goes along with this case. And there was one thing in that video that I couldn't stop thinking
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about last night. I woke up like multiple times throughout the night last night.
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>> Yeah. See, and I've been I So, we I went through it a little bit. We'll talk about it in part two, the paranormal
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aspects of it because there is some strange ones. >> But I was like more going into like the
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the interviews like before he admitted to what he did >> and that shit'll [ __ ] you up.
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>> Oh yeah. >> And just looking at those those discovery documents which we'll link in
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the show notes. Um you can all look at them. You can all look at every goddamn text that was sent between him and
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Shannan, between him and his mistress Nicole. I mean it's >> there's a lot to be seen. There's a lot
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to be seen and a lot of uh just complete lack of humanity on his part, which is >> really upsetting to see.
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>> Um I always swore I wasn't going to do this case because the details are very
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upsetting, but I know you guys really want this case. >> This is one of our most highly requested
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cases >> and I'm, you know, I'm doing this for you. Uh, I also knew this was going to be one of those cases
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that just ate me up like that. I could not stop >> getting deeper and deeper into and that
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has happened. >> Yeah. >> Uh, so I'm going to look forward to disconnect. This is like the Morris
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murders case for me where it's like I'm really looking forward to the end of it where I can say bye.
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>> Yeah. >> Because oh my goodness. >> Um, but yeah, so that's what we'll be doing today. Okay, but before we get to
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that, before we get to all the horror and terrible [ __ ] um, if you haven't gotten your tickets to the live show in
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June, June 27th, New York City >> Radio City Music Hall, >> we're going to be there.
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>> It's going to be big. >> It's going to be huge. >> And there's only so many tickets left.
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>> We're getting to that end point. And I want you guys to come and have fun cuz
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it's one night only. We got a cool theme in mind. We have cool [ __ ] merch. We just had a whole meeting about the
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merch. And it's [ __ ] killer. >> This merch is going to be killer. I'm really And it's only going to be at the
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show. >> Only at the show. You can only get >> Make sure you get your tickets. It's
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going to be fun. I promise you. We're >> Oh, we also booked a sick guest. >> Yeah, we got a special guest.
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>> We have a special guest that's going to blow your goddamn socks off. >> That's true. So, it's going to be a lot
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of fun. So, do it. >> Um, and if you haven't pre-ordered The Butcher Legacy yet, what are you doing,
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>> honey? Uh, >> oh, and if you're looking for more signed copies, there's still more
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people. >> Yeah, cuz I know you guys were looking for them and I told you I'll keep
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signing them as long as my hand works on. So, as long as my hand is on my body, I'll keep signing them for you.
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>> As long as you want them. And so, you can get them at Premier Collectibles. Um, there's some signed ones. And I
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promise you, um, I'm signing them right here. >> Yes, I watch my hand every day each one.
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So that's >> and I always say wow that's a lot of signing going on. >> I always say wow.
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>> I always say wow honey. >> But just to be clear because I know some people are like do you really sign them?
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I really do. There will never be a mass-produced signature of mine. So >> we also like be able to tell but
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>> yeah that'd be insane. >> Uh but yeah enjoy that and pre-order it if you want and you should. It's fun.
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>> And now we're gonna get into this. Um, I'm gonna I I'm gonna try not to get too worked up
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here. >> Good luck with that. >> Yesterday I was so worked up and I was just talking to everybody in the room
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about >> I'm gonna feel worked up because I felt worked up about I don't know like all of
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the ins and outs of this case. I avoided it a lot because >> obviously children are involved so I
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hate that. >> Um, but >> yeah, >> I'll get outraged right along with you. >> Yeah. And everything is going to be I
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mean everything's right in that discovery document that's available for you to take a peek through. It's very long
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obviously but it's all there. So this is all the official [ __ ] >> Now let's start with who Chris Watts is.
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Unfortunately, >> do we have to >> uh I think we have you got to know who this [ __ ] is.
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>> You got to know who this piece of [ __ ] is. Um so he was born May 16th, 1985.
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Hate that he was born in the same year as me. >> I know. A tourist, too. >> I usually love a tourist.
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>> Not this one. >> No, >> not this one. He was born in Fagetville, North Carolina. Uh he was the second to
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two children. Born to Ronnie and Cindy Watts, who I have so many feelings about, but I'm not going to spill all of
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them. >> Keep it quiet. >> But you you can feeling that you will. >> That's just feelings, you know.
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>> Just a feeling. >> Uh growing up, he was very close to his dad. Uh they had they shared a love of
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sports and cars, like you know that kind of thing. >> Dude stuff. >> Um very just
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>> dude bros. >> Sports and cars. Just all right. Uh but Chris's relationship with his father was
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built on more than just these shared interests. They had very similar personalities. And you can see even now
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that they still like not the murderous personality obviously, but I mean like he's a very quiet like subdued guy for
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the most part. Um, and his dad seems a little bit like that as well. Um, so I think what everybody said around them
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was that Chris felt like he was understood by his dad because they were kind of the same.
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>> He was like an average student. He was a good athlete. >> I [ __ ] hate him, but that he he
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didn't do anything remarkable. Like >> I wouldn't think so. >> Nothing to write home about. Um, he was
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super shy, so he didn't really like stand out in any way and he just kind of flew under the radar because he was a
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[ __ ] loser. >> Yeah. Um, but I'm going to be so mean about him. I just need to get that. If
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you are one of those girls who like writes to him in prison or you're going to want to turn this off,
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>> you're going to want to turn this off and you're going to want to go seek some
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real help because this man, after reading more and more about him, I think is one of the biggest pieces of [ __ ] I
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have ever come across in my entire existence of research. If you can kill your own three children, one of which
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was unborn, and your own wife while pregnant with one of those children, >> there's not a good bone in your There's
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nothing good about you and there never was. >> And the details of it all are just
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beyond human comprehension. And how he reacted to all this should >> horrify you to your very [ __ ] core.
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It really should. Uh but when he got to high school, he had become pretty withdrawn. Like he was always very quiet
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and withdrawn. And it wasn't like there something happened that is on record that made this happen. He just was
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always like that. >> That's weird. >> Um and he was kind of aloof as a teenager. He was kind of aloof as an
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adult, too. He didn't give a [ __ ] about anything. >> Um as evidenced by his interview when
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his family was quote unquote missing, and don't worry, we'll get into that. Um his sister Jamie said he didn't go out
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with friends. I was more of a social butterfly and he was quiet and interested in mechanics and cars. He was
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just a focused person and I think that just means like he was a a piece of [ __ ]
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in the making. >> Yeah. >> It wasn't until he enrolled in an automotive technology class that he
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started to find like some kind of confidence. Um, his love of cars and his deep knowledge of NASCAR impressed the
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teacher of the class, uh, Joe Dudy, who, and it's duty y, okay, >> to stifle all of your giggles.
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>> He took Chris under his wing and kind of became like a mentor to him. The teacher
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said it's hard to find a more perfect kid. I'd argue it's not. It'd be super easy. I that's that's me. But he said he
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was in the top 10% of students I ever had and that was in the automotive technology class, not in the school.
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>> Okay. >> Um don't want to give him any undo accolades here. >> Don't don't be doing that.
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>> Um also, uh this the teacher, Mr. Dudy, said uh he could see that Chris struggled socially and he had very few
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friends at the time. That kind of remains something through his life. As you'll see, not too many people were
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willing to go to bat for uh Mr. Watts here >> good. >> Throughout his life. So I think um mom
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and dad were really his like number one people who were going to go bat for him.
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>> Great. >> Uh so the teacher said many times I would look at him and think what's going
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on in his head. >> It was like the wheels were spinning but he was by himself. >> That's a loaded question.
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>> And I saidoo you don't want to know what's going on in his head. >> Yeah. I wonder what was going on in his
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head even back then. >> Probably a whole lot of nothing. >> Yeah. Honestly, I he seems like one of
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those dudes. If you watch any interview with him, he's like one of those guys that if like if you like blew wind
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through his ear, it would like come out the other side like just >> freely like he just nothing one's home.
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>> Yeah. Like just not a lot going on. Now, after graduating from high school, his
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passion for cars led him to enroll at the NASCAR Technical Institute in Morrisville, North Carolina. Uh it was a
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NASCAR sponsored program that specialized in motorsports and like automotive training.
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>> Cars. >> Um just cars. He also found a part-time job lo working at a car dealership.
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>> Cars cuz cars. Uh and when he wasn't in class or at work, he was using his free
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time to study cars. >> Cars. >> So >> you have to do you have to cars. >> Cars. >> You have to say it like Andy Belelffler
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from True Blood. >> From True Blood. Uh I don't know if you're picking up on something here. All
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he cared about was cars. Cars. That's all he had. That's all he had. >> Uh >> he had three looks. That's it. Just
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cars, cars, and cars. >> Cars. NASCAR, car school, >> and a dealership. >> That's it. [ __ ] loser. Uh his former
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roommate, Richard Hodgeges, said he was very dedicated to his work on cars and wasn't the kind of guy that went out and
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partied because he was too busy with cars. >> Uh but he eventually finished the NASCAR
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program and started a full-time job as a mechanic. It wasn't exactly the exciting
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career in NASCAR that he thought he was going to be going forth with. >> Well, he's mediocre. So,
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>> but he made decent money. He enjoyed the work. Says because he loves a car. So,
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he didn't complain and he just kind of like thought he would move up someday, which is how you should go into
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something like that. You start at the bottom, you work your way up. >> Around this same time, he surprised
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everyone by starting his first romantic relationship >> with a car. >> I would have thought so, but no.
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Unfortunately, even the cars were like, "No, thank you, sir." Uh, but this is how weird he was that everybody
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was like, "Wait, what?" >> By all accounts, like again, I wasn't there. I don't know this man. But by all
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accounts, this is how like off like a little aloof and just like shy and not and like withdrawn he was that everyone
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was like, >> "You're going out with a girl? Like what? Another human? Are you sure? Like
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another human and you are going to hang out?" Like that's how off he was. >> That's bleak. Um, but yeah, he started
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his first romantic relationship and the woman Chris was dating had just come out
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of a bad marriage and he never brought her around to meet his family or his co-workers or friends. So,
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>> she existed though. >> I guess she existed. Chris later said, "I was helping her to get through her
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divorce and then she went off with someone else." >> Oh. >> And I said, "That checks."
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>> Okay. >> Also, I'd like to point out right now, so you do know what divorce is.
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>> Yep. So you you have seen >> the basis of divorce >> because Chris Watts, why the [ __ ] didn't
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you just divorce your wife? >> I will never understand this as long as I live. You did know what a divorce was.
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>> There's so many cases where it's like why did you not just separate and divorce?
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>> Truly. Truly. >> Obviously, it's like I know it's complicated. I know there's money. You
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need to explain it to us. We know what I know that it's tough. I'm a I'm a child
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of divorce. I get it. It sucks for like 18 whole years, >> but it's a hell of a lot better than
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murdering your pregnant wife and your two children, I would say. >> Yep. >> I know it's tough, but it's not that
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tough. >> I will stand 12 toes down on that. >> That it's better than murder. It's
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better than family annihilation. And I think if you can't agree on that, it's a problem.
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>> Yeah. >> Uh but between his failure to land the job of his dreams and the messy end to
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his first real relationship, he was feeling discouraged and he wasn't really like psyched to go date again cuz he was
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like, I got her through this divorce. and then she just kind of went off with someone else and she's not a car and
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she's not a car. Um, but his cousin Cindy, not to be confused with his mama Cindy, uh, was able to convince Chris to
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send a Facebook friend request to one of his co her co-workers uh, named Shenan.
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And her u made a name, I believe it's pronounced Zootek. >> Okay. >> Um, I looked it up many many times. Uh,
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but obviously for the rest most of the story she go unfortunately goes by Shannan Watts.
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>> Okay. Um, like Chris, Shannan was also just coming off of a bad breakup and Cindy thought the two of them might hit
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it off. They have something in common there. >> Yeah. >> In retrospect, it is a little weird that
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she thought that they were going to get along cuz they were kind of like very obvious opposites.
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>> Okay. >> Uh, and obviously that can work. So maybe that's what she was thinking.
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Maybe. >> Um, Chris was very quiet, shy, reserved, withdrawn. Like we've said, Shannan was
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friendly. She was gregarious. She was outgoing. like she was just she was pizzazz, you know.
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>> Shannan had grown up in New Jersey but moved to North Carolina uh in the late
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1990s when her father was out of work. >> Love one thing I love is a Jersey girl.
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>> A Jersey [ __ ] love a Jersey girl. >> Yeah, we love it. And the move meant a
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new school for Shannan and she started attending Pinerest High School. This was a progressive school with a focus on the
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arts. >> Okay, cool. >> Uh in that supportive and collaborative environment, she kind of thrived and
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really came into her own. She developed a large circle of friends. She excelled socially. She excelled academically.
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Unlike Chris who was just a literal nothing and no one would probably remember him. Y
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>> Shannan was like just killing it. She was thriving. >> Love that. Um, and she maintained big
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close groups of girlfriends, especially her entire life, >> which says so much about
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like I know a like some of the details about the way that her friends just rode for her and that says so much about her.
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>> It cannot be stressed enough how much her friends [ __ ] rode for her >> and loved her.
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>> Like her friends, like we're going to get into it. Um they are >> next them and Nate her neighbor
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>> heroes in this whole situation in my opinion. >> Same. >> Okay. So like I think her friends were
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on it. >> So again she developed this huge circle of friends. She was really thriving. Um
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her friend Colby said she was one of the sweetest girls you could ever encounter.
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A >> in her senior year she started dating Leonard King, another Pinerest student.
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And the relationship moved pretty fast, like faster than anyone expected. Before
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the end of the school year, they were engaged. >> Oh, wow. >> And they were discussing like future
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plans. Colby said she was adamant about starting her life and having a family. And a few months after graduation, they
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got married. >> Wow. >> Now, the marriage started out great, but soon the realities of getting married
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right outside of high school started creeping in, which obviously this works for some people,
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>> but I don't doubt that there's a ton of extra >> stressors that come from that because
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you're not exactly established yet, right? Um, so if you're not meant to be, I don't think it's going to work. It's
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going to be the thing that kind of pressure tests your relationship. >> After graduation, Shannan started
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college and Leonard joined the army. But when their cost of living went up and they couldn't afford life on one single
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income, Shannan dropped out of school and got a job selling cell phones. >> Um, although it wasn't what she wanted
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for herself at the time, she excelled in sales. She could because of her personality,
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>> right? >> And within a few years, she was managing the store. >> Wow. and handling all the administrative
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duties. Which I could never It's my nightmare. I could never. Her success at the cell phone store led to the store's
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owner to hire her for his new company. >> Wow. >> This company was called the Dirty South.
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>> Absolutely iconic. >> It was an automobile customization company that catered to high-end
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clientele >> for their cars. >> For their cars. Uh, if it was possible to identify the point where Leonard and
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Shannan's marriage kind of started to fall apart, it was probably when she took that job at Dirty South. At the
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time, she was managing the cell phone store and the new business, often traveling the 130 m between the two in
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the same day. >> Oh, wow. That's a lot. >> So, they were not really seeing a lot of
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each other. It just wasn't working. They tried couples counseling and various other ways to save their marriage. They
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did give it a go, you know, like they did what they could, >> but in by 2007, too much damage had been
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done and they divorced. >> Shannan later told a friend, "I went through a real awful divorce and that
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relationship took a lot from me. It literally took everything. I had to start financially all over." That's
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brutal. But Shannan refused to let the experience drag her down. She continued working hard at her job. She enrolled in
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some night classes at Queens University. and she started looking for property in
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Charlotte where she could start building her own dream home. Nice. Because she was making money.
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>> Let's go. >> Cuz she was real good at sales. >> We love an independent lady and
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>> she's she was hustling. Uh a few years later, she signed off on all the mortgage paperwork and started
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construction on what would be a 4,000 ft 12 room home with four bedrooms and four
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bathrooms. Wow. That she was doing her own. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. So, the excitement of all this,
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becoming a homeowner, starting a new life, it was soon offset by long periods where she was feeling really exhausted
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and kind of unwell. Oh. And she was starting to notice it. >> In 2010, she finally went to see a
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doctor and she was diagnosed with lupus. >> Oh, [ __ ] >> Uh, it's an autoimmune disease where the
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body's immune system attacks its own organs and tissues. >> Yeah, lupus is no joke.
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>> Lupus sucks. She later said, "When they diagnosed me with lupus, I was lost."
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>> Oh. She didn't know what it was or what to expect. So, of course, she did what
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any of us would do. She went to the internet and tried to search it up. >> And she was immediately terrified by
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what she found online. >> But it was during this period that Shannan received the friend request from
00:18:42
Chris Watts. >> Having recently come out of a bad marriage followed by chronic health
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problems. She wasn't exactly interested in getting to know anyone at this point,
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regardless of how well her co-orker Cindy thought they would get along. So, she kind of just ignored it. She was
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like, "No." And it's like, "Oh gosh, I just wish she had forever ignored it." >> I know.
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>> But a few months later, when a second message from Chris appeared in her inbox, she figured she might as well
00:19:07
give him a chance. >> And a few weeks later, they met for their first date at the Epicenter, which
00:19:12
is an upscale dining and entertainment place in downtown Charlotte. >> Okay. >> Uh, contrary to what Cindy had told them
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both, they had very little in common, and they had a complete lack of chemistry on this first date. I mean,
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from everything you've described about each of them, like I I don't see it. >> Personally, anything I've seen of him,
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I'm like, >> a wet rag has a bigger personality than he does. Like, you're I don't I don't
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blame her for being like, "What the [ __ ] is this?" >> Yeah. >> Despite the disappointing evening,
00:19:40
though, Chris did manage. He pursued. >> Okay. >> He managed to convince Shannan to give
00:19:45
him another chance. And a few days later, they attended a concert together. >> Okay.
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>> He later said, "I was persistent trying to pursue her." >> Wow. which does become
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>> a theme, >> a thing for him. >> He becomes obsessed with women. He becomes focused solely on women. We'll
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see it with his mistress Nicole. We'll see it with Shannan. We'll see it with uh later uh women that he becomes
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interested in in prison. He becomes very obsessive with somebody cuz he's a [ __ ] loser. Uh but despite the
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failure of the previous date, he found himself really drawn to Shannan and was determined to convince her that they
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were a good match. >> If you have to convince somebody that you're a good match, I'm sorry, you're
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not. >> Yeah. It took some time, but eventually he did win her over and with a in a few
00:20:32
months she was very happy with him and she was calling him the man of her dreams.
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>> Wow. So he it sounds like he tried to become what she wanted. >> Yeah. like he tried to
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>> maybe he emulated the qualities and did some Google searches of how to act. >> Yeah. Because as we'll see later, he
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literally has to Google uh what does someone feel when they tell when you tell them you love them.
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>> Yeah. >> Because he literally doesn't know. >> Yeah. >> Because he's not a human being. Like
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he's a lizard person. That doesn't it doesn't make any I'm sure he was googling what does human boy say to
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girl. Like he is not a real thing. >> He's like watching like romcoms and taking notes. He's scary as hell. And
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I'm sure that he was able to cuz one thing about these scary as hell >> [ __ ] lizard people who are just empty
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husks that just look to fill themselves with other people's ideas of emotions. >> They can blend.
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>> They can manipulate too. And they become for you what you need or want because
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that's how they want to get you. >> But deep down they are not that. So then they can't live up to that that fake
00:21:39
thing that they've created for They can't continue on like that. >> Yeah. And then it becomes dangerous. So
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she had no way of knowing that this man is just this empty husk of [ __ ] that is going to crumble.
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>> Now over time, the various ways that they were compatible started to show themselves, which made it a little
00:21:56
easier to like go down this path of like maybe we are meant for each other. >> Cuz managing her lupus meant relying on
00:22:03
a lot of medications and attending a lot of doctor's appointments and like specialist appointments
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>> and Shannan was not. She was a lot of things, but she was never a very wellorganized person. We all have our,
00:22:14
you know, >> not either, sister. >> And Chris's lifelong compulsive hyperorganization,
00:22:20
which yeah, uh, it did come in handy here because before long, he would manage her medications for her. He would
00:22:26
kind of keep her doctor schedule under control, remind her you got to take your meds or like you got to go to this
00:22:32
doctor's appointment, which at first glance you would look at and say, "Wow, that's really kind and like thoughtful
00:22:38
and that's somebody who cares about you." >> It's actually insane that he used to
00:22:41
manage her doctor's appointments. We'll get there. >> We'll get there. So, Shannan, meanwhile,
00:22:46
made up for Chris's social struggles and deficiencies, of which he had plenty. Um, she introduced him to her friends
00:22:53
and like included him in all their activities. kind of like gave him a friend group essentially. And before
00:22:58
long, Chris moved into Shannan's house and everything they everyone kind of started to feel pretty confident that
00:23:04
like this might work out. Like I think they're actually working together. >> And as Chris was slowly but surely
00:23:10
becoming integrated into Shannan's life, some people uh especially Chris's family
00:23:16
were were not entirely on board with this. Uh they did not feel like they were a good fit for each other.
00:23:22
>> Just like immediately. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, also I want to remind you these are
00:23:26
two grown adults. Um, so no one gives a flying [ __ ] if you think that they're a
00:23:31
fit for each other. They got to figure that out. >> Yep. >> Uh, just putting that out there for
00:23:35
anybody who thinks that this is this makes sense. >> Chris's sister Jamie said, "We met and
00:23:41
we weren't sure. >> It's really not up to you, okay? >> Cuz you're not in the relationship, but
00:23:46
okay." >> Um, when the families got together for the first time, Chris's parents were
00:23:50
immediately suspicious of Shannan's lifestyle. What? >> They said it didn't seem possible that
00:23:55
someone so young could afford such a lavish home. >> Okay. Well, she works her ass off.
00:24:00
>> Here's the thing. Just because your son is a [ __ ] loser, >> right, >> does not mean everyone is. Shannan
00:24:05
worked her ass off. >> Yeah. >> And it's like, what do you say? >> Some people do work their asses off,
00:24:09
others don't. >> So, she assume they assume that she was reckless with money. >> That's quite the assumption to make.
00:24:15
>> She built her dream working two jobs, but she was >> traveling 130 miles back and forth per
00:24:20
day, >> but she was reckless with Yeah, for sure. Then there was the fact that she
00:24:23
had already been married and divorced by her mid20s. >> Who gives a [ __ ] >> Everybody's you clutch the pearls,
00:24:30
[ __ ] >> Get a grip. >> But the biggest problem, at least as far as Chris's uh mother was concerned, was
00:24:35
Shannan's mother, Sandy. >> Oh, the two women clashed immediately. >> Really? >> Uh and Sandy did not walk away from that
00:24:42
meeting feeling good about potential for success here. Uh Sandy later said, and uh I'd like to point out that Sandy was
00:24:49
100% correct here. call her Nostradamus. She said, "I knew she was going to be a
00:24:54
thorn in the marriage." >> And she was a mama. Most mamas. >> Yeah. >> No. >> No. And I think she was like, "Oh,
00:25:01
you're going to be a problem." >> Oh, no. >> Now, in 2011, Shannan's close two closest friends at the time, Gina and
00:25:08
Charlie Deetsz, moved to Broomfield, uh, Colorado. And within weeks, they were saying, "Shannan, you have to move
00:25:15
here." They said, "This Fresh mountaire will be [ __ ] awesome for your lupus. I think it's going to help you. It's a
00:25:21
beautiful area. Like there and she had just experienced a really bad flare up of the illness in the previous months.
00:25:28
>> So the idea of moving was appealing in that sense, but she had just finished building her dream house and things were
00:25:33
going well with Chris. So she's like, I don't know, that's enough that I want to
00:25:37
just like up and leave, right? >> Yeah. That August, Chris and Shannan rented a house in Ocean Isle Beach,
00:25:42
North Carolina, and invited family to spend some time at the beach with them. One afternoon, a few days into the
00:25:48
vacation, Chris approached Frank, who is uh Shannan's father, and told him he wanted to ask Shannan to marry him.
00:25:55
>> Okay. >> But only if Frank gave his permission. >> Uhhuh. >> Not, you know, one to stand in the way
00:26:00
of his daughter's happiness, Frank immediately gave his blessing. And a short time later, Chris proposed to
00:26:05
Shannan on the beach, and she said yes. >> Nice. >> Well, you know, at the time,
00:26:09
>> yeah. Now, a few months later, Chris and Shannan flew to Colorado to visit Gina
00:26:14
and Charlie. And it was the first time Shannan's friends had met her now fiance. And they were pleased that after
00:26:20
such a disastrous relationship, the marriage, she had found someone who seemed by all accounts, everyone said he
00:26:27
seemed very devoted to her. >> Okay. >> Gina recalled he was very doing, attentive, kind, but shy and
00:26:33
introverted. They all say this. His mother says this with much eye in her voice that he was very doing on
00:26:40
>> Shenan, >> which you would think that you'd be proud of your son for being a doting
00:26:43
husband. I >> that's my opinion. >> That's what I would think. >> Like if I had a son and he was a doting
00:26:47
husband, I'd be like, "Hell yeah, I raised him right." >> Yeah. Like hell yeah. Treat treat your
00:26:52
treat your partner like a [ __ ] queen or king or whatever, you know? >> But it was during that trip that the
00:26:58
question of moving to Colorado came up again. Gina was convinced it would be better for Shannan's health and Chris
00:27:04
didn't seem to have an opinion one way or another because he's an empty husk. Everybody like this the idea is going to
00:27:10
come up here and like you know his mom likes to say it and stuff that uh look at any interview with them that uh she
00:27:17
that she was doineering or that she was too like you know that kind of person. I
00:27:23
don't this is just my opinion. It's not that it looks like she's very doineering. It looks like Chris Watts is
00:27:29
an empty, again I say, husk that will just take anything and just roll with it until it doesn't work for him anymore
00:27:36
and then he explodes. >> It also seems that he becomes obsessed with women. That's my opinion.
00:27:41
>> So, if the woman that he's obsessed with wants to move to Colorado, of course,
00:27:44
he's going to go with it. >> Well, he just What does he have going on, right? >> He doesn't care. Sure, let's go to
00:27:49
Colorado. >> There's cars everywhere. >> There's cars everywhere in Colorado. Is
00:27:52
there cars in Colorado? Let's go to Colorado. That's how it seems to me, >> you know? So he was like, "Yeah, I don't
00:27:58
really give a shit." So during the vacation, the couple hired a realer to take them around the area and look at
00:28:03
some properties. And by the time they were leaving to go back to North Carolina, they'd made the decision to
00:28:08
move to Colorado as soon as possible. >> Okay. >> In fact, before they'd even gotten home,
00:28:12
they'd already come up with a plan. Chris would move to Colorado first and stay with Gina and Charlie, while
00:28:18
Shannan remained in North Carolina to sell the house and kind of wrap up all the affairs on the East Coast.
00:28:23
>> Okay? >> Cuz again, they don't have kids at this point. It's much easier. >> Yeah.
00:28:26
>> Now, Chris and Shannan's plan to move to Colorado became yet another point of
00:28:30
contention with the families. >> Mama doesn't want her right. >> While Shannan's family was supportive
00:28:35
and helped her prepare for the move in the upcoming wedding, Chris's mom struggled to accept this.
00:28:42
>> Um, >> I bet >> she said Colorado was Shannan's idea. >> How do you know that? Because you're not
00:28:47
at the dinner table when those conversations are happening. Like, you're >> Yeah.
00:28:51
>> Sorry. [ __ ] off. >> Yeah. Like I'm not in the relationship either. So I'm not saying it wasn't her
00:28:57
idea. But we don't know. We we all share the common thing that we don't know. >> And you know what? He was going along
00:29:03
with it. >> So what's the problem? >> Right. >> But it's like he agreed to it and they
00:29:07
lived there for how long? Like obviously it was fine for a little bit. >> They were also uh grown adults. So uh
00:29:14
she said why did she want to leave and take him all the way to Colorado? >> Take him. He's a grown adult. He's not a
00:29:19
child. She can't take him anywhere. And I literally just wrote here, "Jesus." And while the rest of Chris's family was
00:29:26
a little more supportive than his mom was, they still seemed to harbor resentment for this. Um, as they
00:29:32
prepared for the engagement party, Shannan asked Jaime, his sister, to help in planning, specifically asking her to
00:29:38
order the food, >> and she had told Jaime to order gluten-free food, and she failed to do
00:29:44
so, which resulted in Shannan not being able to eat anything at the >> at the engagement party for her.
00:29:50
>> Wow. Yeah, cool. >> Um Jamie maintains that it was a mistake and it was a it was a like
00:29:57
miscommunication >> that can happen. >> Um for sure it can happen. Yeah, >> just looking at, you know,
00:30:02
>> looking at both sides here. Uh but Sandy Shannan's mom suspects it was maybe could have been just in her opinion a
00:30:11
subtle attempt to punish her for what the Watts family did perceive as stealing Chris from them.
00:30:16
>> Yeah. uh cuz they made it pretty obvious that they felt like she had taken him
00:30:20
away. So, the tension between the families finally came to a head several months later. They believed Shannan was
00:30:26
controlling and overbearing and that she'd manipulated Chris to get her way when it came to all the decisions in the
00:30:32
relationship. That's just how they saw her. >> Okay. >> Uh when it all finally boiled over,
00:30:35
Chris had a falling out with his family over it. >> Years later, he said, "I blew up at my
00:30:40
family to the point where I said I didn't need any of them anymore because I have Shannan." And then are you ready
00:30:46
for So you hear that and you're like whoa like that you actually took a stance. No. Uh he said I don't know if
00:30:52
Shenan coached me to do it or if it was just rage like I'd never seen before. You don't know. He is such a [ __ ] ass
00:31:00
wet rag. Like I can't >> I'm sorry. Like you would know if she coached you to do that. There would be
00:31:04
instances where she would say, "Hey, freak out on your family. Hey, your family sucks."
00:31:08
>> So convenient of you to say that when Shenan cannot dispute that. >> Yeah. And also
00:31:14
grow the [ __ ] up. >> Yeah, >> you got So you stood up for her. I don't know if she coached me. I don't know.
00:31:21
You don't know. >> How do you not know? >> You [ __ ] idiot. You don't know. >> I can't.
00:31:26
>> He's so gross. Like he's so gross. >> He's just a wimp. >> He is gh It just makes me think of Randy
00:31:33
and Scream when he says, "Billy Lumis, what a [ __ ] ass wet rag in Scream Suit." That's literally what he feels
00:31:40
like to me. She coached you. Get a [ __ ] grip, you [ __ ] useless moose knuckle. So by April 2012,
00:31:48
>> not a moose knuckle. >> Yeah, a moose knuckle. A >> [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah, I said it. I stand I stand
00:31:58
by it. By April 2012, Chris had quit his job and moved in with Gina and Charlie, but he stayed in daily
00:32:06
contact with Shannan, who stayed behind to sell the house. And it turned out that the house took a little longer to
00:32:11
sell than they thought. And but by August, she finally found a buyer and even made a little bit of a profit on
00:32:16
the sale because she's a sales girl. >> Hell yeah. >> Uh with the house sold, she joined Chris
00:32:21
in Colorado. >> And they first shared a small bedroom in the Deetsz's basement until October 2013
00:32:29
when they bought the house in Frederick, Colorado. Okay. >> Which was a small town of about 15,000
00:32:34
people. Like a lot of people their age, Chris and and Shannan were into social media, you know, like especially at the
00:32:41
time. Um, and much of their lives together were documented and shared through like Facebook and Instagram.
00:32:46
>> Instagram had like just come out like right around that time. >> Did it really?
00:32:50
>> Yeah. I think Instagram came out my sophomore year of high school, which would have been like 2011, 2012.
00:32:57
>> That's crazy. >> Yeah. >> Um, but in the months leading up to the wedding too, they're they're planning a
00:33:02
wedding. Shannan shared just enthusiastic daily updates about wedding planning and she made a point of showing
00:33:08
off her engagement ring which was $10,000. >> Hell yeah. >> I was like >> crazy.
00:33:16
>> My engagement ring is gorgeous. >> That shocked me. >> It's not $10,000. >> Like that shocked like Okay. Like that.
00:33:24
Damn. I just like that like shocked me. I was like, >> how did people determine how much it
00:33:28
cost? >> I'm not sure. It's just in the documents. Now, around this time, tensions between the families had ramped
00:33:35
up. I mean, it was constant. >> Okay. >> Chris's mom, Cindy, literally told him she didn't think Shannam was good enough
00:33:41
for him and she didn't like how she treated him. And then when it came down to it, they decided not to come to the
00:33:47
wedding. >> His own parents didn't go to his wedding. >> Nope. And her reasoning, which um
00:33:54
there's like interviews that she's given or they have given during like the mom and the dad to people. In one of the
00:34:00
interviews, she literally says, "We didn't attend because Shannan and I just couldn't get along. I didn't like the
00:34:05
way she treated him. >> I'm sorry if you grow up. Grow up. You just can't get along."
00:34:12
>> That's nuts. >> So, you don't go to your only son's wedding. >> That's nuts in my opinion.
00:34:16
>> In my in my opinion. >> That's nuts. >> In my opinion, that's rough. >> Damn.
00:34:21
>> But and it's like what what does that do? >> Well, >> they're getting married regardless of
00:34:27
whether you're there or not. So yeah, what did it do? >> Oh man, >> all it does is add to tension.
00:34:34
>> This is messy. >> So the wedding day finally comes and despite people being jerks about it, uh
00:34:39
on it was on November 3rd, 2012. It was a modest ceremony at the Hilton in Charlotte, their family, most of their
00:34:45
family came and their friends, Shannan's brother Frankie recalled later, "I was crying, thanking God for him being in my
00:34:52
sister's life." >> Oh, wow. >> Now, cuz see, he could dupe everyone. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, now with the wedding
00:34:58
behind them, Chris and Shannan left for their honeymoon to Myrtle Beach. They actually were planning to go to Cancun,
00:35:04
but they had to change plans like at the last second because it was too expensive.
00:35:08
>> Oh, okay. >> Uh, which we've all been there. >> Looking back, Gina Deetsz recalls having
00:35:13
never seen either like people so in love. >> Wow. >> Uh, she said they were very happy. They
00:35:18
were newly weds and it was wonderful. And just a few months later, they got more happy news when Shannan discovered
00:35:24
that she was pregnant. years earlier, her doctors had actually told her, "You might have trouble getting pregnant
00:35:29
because of the lupus." Oh, really? So, this news was like even more exciting. >> Now, between the pregnancy and the new
00:35:36
house and the marriage, things were really going well for them. >> Um, like the leadup to the wedding,
00:35:40
Shannan wanted to document every step of her pregnancy, of course, from photos of
00:35:45
her growing tummy to shots of the baby's closet and bedroom as they were filling
00:35:49
it with toys and clothing. exciting. >> Um, Gina said before she and I even met,
00:35:54
she had clothes for her for firstborn. >> Uh, the constant photos and updates on
00:35:59
social media really would reflect this like this couple that's so excited about the birth of their child,
00:36:06
>> of course, >> and it did cuz they were both very very excited about this. But it also to some
00:36:13
people was looking like they were living beyond their means because they were like buying too much when they really
00:36:20
couldn't afford it. >> Okay. >> But I mean that's also none of our [ __ ] business. Um now back in North
00:36:25
Carolina, Chris and Shannan's combined income had been in like so that money really wasn't a problem for them.
00:36:33
>> Um >> well the cost of living I'm sure is also a bit cheaper. >> Yeah. Well, and now Shannan was only
00:36:37
making like a little over the national minimum wage while most of Chris's salary went to bills and the mortgage on
00:36:43
the new house at the time. So basically they were spending more money than they were making which the only reason why
00:36:49
this is important is because financial stress can be a factor in certain like arguments and marriage problems
00:36:55
>> but they didn't seem to worry because they were just putting things on credit
00:36:59
cards and just kind of like paying the minimum and going okay >> which can again become
00:37:03
>> if you're a young person listening you can pay more than the minimum. >> You can
00:37:08
>> I didn't know that when I was younger. I thought you were just supposed to pay
00:37:10
the minimum and I [ __ ] my credit at like 19 years old. >> I feel like 99.99% of people [ __ ] their credit up when
00:37:18
they're >> younger 20 >> cuz we don't teach people enough about it. >> No, we don't learn about it anymore.
00:37:23
>> And the system itself is complete [ __ ] >> It's literally designed to [ __ ]
00:37:27
>> The credit system is ass. It makes no sense. >> Even I'm like my credit score doesn't
00:37:32
make sense right now. >> No, it's ridiculous. >> No. On December 16th, 2013, after 16
00:37:38
hours of labor, Shannan gave birth to a baby girl named Bella Marie. >> Oh, that's a beautiful name.
00:37:43
>> She's so cute. Uh, a few weeks later, Ronnie and Cindy Watts, Chris's parents,
00:37:48
they came to Colorado to visit and meet their new granddaughter. >> Oh, that's nice.
00:37:52
>> Yeah. And Cindy had hoped they could leave the negative experiences in the past, but she wasn't willing to. So,
00:37:59
>> that's that's tough. That's a catch 22. >> Yeah. So, like, you could She was hoping
00:38:04
to do, but she couldn't. >> But she couldn't. She found it difficult to look past her feelings towards
00:38:09
Shannan. >> Grow up. >> Uh Cindy later recalled Chris always seemed anxious and when she needed
00:38:14
something, he would run. He wouldn't walk. He would run. It was very odd. >> Also, maybe he's anxious because of the
00:38:21
tension between the two. He is at all like >> like, "Okay, Cindy." Or he was just a
00:38:27
good husband >> and she was pregnant. Like she just had a baby, >> right? >> Like
00:38:32
>> hello. I'm I'm sorry he's being a good spouse at this time. It's almost like I'm like are are you not like what is
00:38:38
going on? It was very odd that he would go get a wife who just gave birth. Like >> sorry about it.
00:38:46
>> Regardless of what Cindy Watts felt or believed, those who knew Chris and Shannan knew them as a great couple. Um
00:38:53
what their friend Chris Landon told people later, they were the couple that you look at and then turn to your
00:38:59
husband and be like, "Why aren't we like that?" >> Wow. which is like shocking. They said
00:39:04
they seemed so supportive of each other. It was their public face. >> Uhhuh. Which is clear.
00:39:09
>> Yeah. >> Um in May, Chris found a new job as an oil field contractor for Covenant
00:39:14
Testing Technologies in nearby Greenley Gley. Um the change definitely came at the best time because all the money they
00:39:21
had been spending was definitely starting to catch up and this salary increase would go a long way towards
00:39:26
getting them out of that hole. They definitely had a lot of debt at this point. Yeah. But in January 2015,
00:39:33
Shannan learned that she was pregnant with their second child. Um, just as she'd done with the last pregnancy, she
00:39:38
wanted to document all this and she was documenting Bella's life and like all her milestones and she she was just
00:39:45
excited about it. >> To those following along on Facebook and Instagram, and what's really funny about
00:39:50
this right now is in my notes, it autocorrected Facebook to fake book. >> Fake book. And I didn't even do that
00:39:56
intelligent like intelligently. Um that's weird. >> That is weird. >> Everybody who saw them on Facebook and
00:40:04
Instagram would have thought they couldn't look more happy or more well adjusted as a couple. Behind the scenes
00:40:10
though, things were getting a little challenging. In addition to the growing financial problems that were just kind
00:40:15
of stacking on each other, Bella was reaching the age now where she could walk, so she needed a lot more
00:40:20
supervision. Once they start walking, all bets are off. >> Exactly. For the increasingly pregnant
00:40:25
Shenan, that becomes an issue. It's >> tough to keep up with. >> She couldn't get around very easily. And
00:40:29
Chris wasn't around as often as he was during the first pregnancy. The second pregnancy, if you're lucky enough, like,
00:40:35
and that's what you want to have a second pregnancy. >> It is tough because now all of a sudden,
00:40:40
the first one you're like, well, I don't have a child, so I can just I'm the queen of Sheba here. And it's like, but
00:40:46
the second one you're like, oh [ __ ] it's not >> I got to keep up with that one that I
00:40:50
already made. >> Like, it's not just about me now. Uh but couples, you know, and we've seen this
00:40:56
before, everybody knows this. People who obsessively post how happy they are online
00:41:01
>> are usually not that happy >> do tend to be trying to compensate for something or just trying to manifest
00:41:07
that happiness. Obviously, >> not always. I've seen some people who >> a lot of time it is the case.
00:41:12
>> But I we need to remember that social media, especially now, I mean back then
00:41:17
it was. Now I think it's a hundfold social media is complete [ __ ] I think back then it was definitely a
00:41:24
thing where like people who posted all the time would post how happy they were and like whatever and it might not be so
00:41:30
now it's almost 100% across the board I think now like it really is. >> So not to get super woo but a lot of
00:41:36
social media popped off when Neptune was in a really strong placement and Neptune
00:41:40
is the planet of illusions. >> Oh wow that's >> it's actually very fascinating. You can
00:41:44
go down like a deep hole on that. >> Yeah. And I think I assume when you're in a not happy situation or not even at
00:41:52
this point I don't think it was an unhappy situation. I think it was just a challenging and not ideal situation like
00:41:59
things aren't going exactly how you want them to overcompensate. >> I think you're overcompensating because
00:42:03
when people are telling you, "Wow, you're the cutest couple ever." >> Makes you feel better. Couple goals. I
00:42:08
want to be like that. Wow, this is so cute. Blah blah blah. your brain can start believing that that's true and
00:42:14
then it can kind of coast you into the next day kind of thing. It's almost like a just got to get to tomorrow and these
00:42:20
people will tell me I'm great. >> Well, and there's also studies about >> but it's so empty.
00:42:23
>> There are so many studies about what likes and comments do to our brain and it is similar.
00:42:30
The way that it stimulates your brain is crazy >> and it's scary. >> It is scary.
00:42:34
>> That's why like I know this isn't about this kind because we're talking about
00:42:38
this. I just want to say taking social media breaks is so healthy. >> I really encourage everybody to do it if
00:42:44
they can. >> When I I think I took a year off, that [ __ ] was great. >> It is. It's really It It makes you learn
00:42:49
to appreciate things that you're not appreciating right now. >> U But back to this. So, in order to help
00:42:55
with Bella and the soon to be born second baby, Shannan's parents moved into the finished basement in the Watts
00:43:01
house. >> Really? I didn't know that. >> Yeah, they for a short period of time they did. the addition like
00:43:06
>> well with two new people in the home it was Chris said it was stressful of course
00:43:11
>> but he also welcomed the help with Bella because now they have built-in grandparents to help out.
00:43:16
>> Um he later said when they first got here they didn't have a job and so they were around all the time
00:43:21
>> and sorry this is his parents right? >> No her parents. >> Oh her parents. Okay. Um my comment was
00:43:26
I thought that I mean any parents moving in I think is like child echo >> but the presence of her parents
00:43:33
according to him >> he felt like it put a strain on everything and they fought more than
00:43:39
they had in the past according to him >> allegedly. >> Yeah. >> I think it was just cuz he was an
00:43:45
[ __ ] personally. >> By July 2015 Shannan gave birth to their second daughter Celeste would be known
00:43:52
as Cece. >> Such a cute name. Um, she was born with an allergic swallowing disorder.
00:43:57
>> Oh. >> Uh, that required constant medical attention in the first year of her life.
00:44:00
>> Oh, that's really scary. >> Um, which is tough. That's really tough. >> When you also already have another
00:44:05
child, too. >> Yeah, it's really, really tough. So, um, they had also they had filed for
00:44:10
bankruptcy before this, which so it did wipe out a lot of the >> the debt that they were in. Uh, but now
00:44:15
there was going to be medical bills on top of that. Um, so even with the presence of her parents, Shannan was
00:44:20
finding it difficult to keep up with everything. During the day, she was taking care of the girls, trying to keep
00:44:25
up with the house. At night, she was working from home as an auditor for a local hospital. Uh, desperate to get
00:44:31
caught up on everything, in January 2016, she started working part-time as a rep uh a rep for a multi-level marketing
00:44:38
company selling an energy drink called Thrive. >> Okay. The job was mostly online and
00:44:44
thanks to her like she was pretty adept at social media at this point and really
00:44:48
good at sales. >> She was really good at it and she was able to navigate it really well.
00:44:52
According to her Facebook posts at the time, the Thrive was helping with her pain management as well and she had
00:44:58
stopped taking her lupus medication. >> Wow. The energy drink. >> Yeah. I have no I did not look into
00:45:02
Thrive at all so I don't know what it is. I'm not Who knows what it is, right? But the deeper Shannan got into
00:45:08
marketing Thrive online, the more she was kind of bringing Chris in for like sales pitches and like having be him be
00:45:14
a part of like videos and pictures. And Chris was actually using Thrive as well.
00:45:18
So he was commenting on like his experiences, how it was helping him with certain things. But his author John Glat
00:45:24
wrote something about the succession of grinning pictures of Chris was hollow. >> Huh.
00:45:29
>> And if you look at this man, he is hollow. >> He is very hollow. >> His eyes are so [ __ ] dead. I've never
00:45:34
seen anything like it. When I say the lights are on, but no one's home. Yeah. >> Like the lights aren't even on at this
00:45:40
point. >> Yeah. Like truly truly scary. Scary. Now, as Shannan's success with this continued to grow, she tried
00:45:49
to bring Chris on board as a sales rep. But he shockingly lacked the charisma necessary to succeed in sales,
00:45:57
>> which I know crazy. >> You never saw coming. You thought he'd be great at that.
00:46:00
>> He could knock me over with a feather. Chris said she put me underneath her >> so that
00:46:05
>> well she started this. >> She She's bringing you in, babe. >> Right. >> Uh and he said if I wanted to talk to
00:46:11
somebody at the mall or the pool about Thrive, I would just stumble all over my words. It's like, okay, so you're not
00:46:16
good at sales. >> Yeah. >> Who gives a [ __ ] >> Despite his struggles to grow his sales
00:46:21
here, Shannan continued to enthusiastically celebrate him on social media. She really strengthened that
00:46:28
outward appearance of this happy couple. Well, there was definitely some tension
00:46:32
underneath. >> Okay. >> Now, by the end of 2016, her social media presence became even bigger than
00:46:38
it had ever been. She was like really staying consistent posting because like that is how you do it if you want to
00:46:44
grow >> an audience to get paid to do this, which is what she was trying to do. >> Y
00:46:49
>> and she was posting a lot about Chris, too, because she I think she desperately
00:46:53
wanted this marriage to be what she thought it was, >> right? and she's posted one in late
00:46:57
November that was captioned, "My husband Chris, he is my biggest supporter. He's
00:47:01
an amazing father to our beautiful girls and the best husband ever." >> Wow. >> So, she was just like always trying to
00:47:07
pump him up. >> Yeah. >> In early 2017, Sandy and Frank um Shannan's parents packed up their things
00:47:14
and moved back to North Carolina. Like things had settled, >> seemed to even out. Um, by April,
00:47:19
Shannan was working on Thrive full-time, managing her own business and Chris's social media presence, operating like,
00:47:26
you know, both things at once. While it appeared to most people that things were
00:47:31
now going pretty well for the couple, Chris's mother, Cindy, said she could sense a growing tension between them.
00:47:38
>> Could she? >> So, other people thought it was fine, but she >> could she all the way from North
00:47:41
Carolina? That's crazy. Cindy said, "I've never seen her scream at Chris, but I'm sure there was something in
00:47:46
private >> because she because she always had that angry look on her face like she was
00:47:52
disgusted with him." >> You could be angry at somebody and not scream at them. And if you never saw any
00:47:57
evidence of her screaming at him, why would you think that she screamed at him? >> What I have to say is, you know what
00:48:05
they say about assuming Cindy? Something about ass. I don't know. >> Something about ass.
00:48:09
>> I don't know what I don't remember it. I don't remember the saying. >> I just don't think we should assume that
00:48:14
that that she's screaming at him in in private >> if you've never seen that happen.
00:48:19
>> Whether or not Cindy was right about her assessment of Chris and Shannan's relationship, she wasn't the only person
00:48:24
at this point that was noticing a change in the dynamic a little bit. In the late
00:48:28
summer of 2018, um a young woman named uh Nick Nicole Nikki Kessinger >> Kessinger.
00:48:36
>> Kessinger, I think, >> uh began working at the oil company where Chris worked. and his co-workers
00:48:41
couldn't help but notice uh Chris being a [ __ ] ugling creo loser [ __ ] face uh
00:48:48
and just staring at her. >> It's the worst when you see that your coworker has like that.
00:48:52
>> Yeah. When you see that your coworker is this ugling little >> creepfaced [ __ ] face
00:48:57
>> just a lech like that's that's what he looks like >> and he's staring at her all the time.
00:49:03
>> One coworker said Chris would be on his laptop and when she'd walk by he'd look
00:49:07
up and stare at her awkwardly. Ew. Which I'm like, what what got you about that girl? Like that I don't know if that
00:49:14
would do it for me, but okay. >> I know that that would not do it for me. >> Wouldn't do it for me. Now, although
00:49:20
their work should have shouldn't have really brought them in contact very often cuz they were on two separate
00:49:24
things like in this company. Before long, Chris seemed to be finding ways to casually run into Nicole around the
00:49:31
office. >> Imagine that. >> Um, she later said it was always hit or miss. It wasn't an everyday thing
00:49:36
>> in the beginning. Okay. Uh regardless, the attraction between them seemed to be
00:49:41
undeniable and Chris apparently didn't know what a divorce was. So >> good. >> Um in June 2018, Shannan excitedly
00:49:50
posted that she and Chris were expecting a third child. >> You know, >> his reaction in that post
00:49:55
>> Yeah. >> is bonkers in he literally goes, "Awesome. >> Awesome." >> If I told my husband I was pregnant and
00:50:04
he said, >> "Awesome." >> Yeah. Uh just one day after Shannan posted about her pregnancy, Chris and
00:50:12
Nikki spoke for the first time, >> uh she recalled he started talking about his kids and then she mentioned, "Yes, I
00:50:19
have." And he said, "Yes, I have a wife, but we're getting separated." >> Now, what's confusing for me is there
00:50:24
was this >> and then she said that at first he didn't say that he had kids. She didn't
00:50:30
find that out for a while. >> So, I'm not sure which one is stories. >> Yeah, I just I'm not sure which one is
00:50:35
correct. >> Okay. But yeah, he supposedly told her allegedly that he was getting separated
00:50:41
from his wife. If you look at the discovery documents, maybe um I guess you'll just have to
00:50:48
look at them and and kind of take what you will from that. >> Yeah. >> And also when asked, his mother said
00:50:52
that she didn't believe he was happy at all for the pregnancy, >> which is disgusting.
00:50:58
>> He knows how babies are made. He's made to you can avoid that if you're not excited to have another child. And if
00:51:04
you are planning on getting separated, >> maybe don't do that. >> Don't do that.
00:51:08
>> Yeah. Don't have another child if you are actually planning on separating. >> It's pretty simple.
00:51:12
>> Um, but Chris showed Nikki uh pictures of the girls, neglecting to mention that
00:51:17
there was another one on the way, which which that is correct. She found out in the media later.
00:51:24
>> Oh. >> She had no idea that she was pregnant, >> cuz that probably would have changed
00:51:27
things. I would hope at least. >> And she liked that he was an enthusiastic father or seeming to be.
00:51:32
Um, later that day she sent him an email thanking him for being honest about his
00:51:36
relationship status with his wife and she wrote, "Truthfulness is so underrated in our culture." And in his
00:51:43
reply, Chris commented he was a straightforward guy and that lying just complicates things.
00:51:50
>> Well, he's a really bad liar. So, I I do believe that he felt that way. >> It does complicate things. He's not
00:51:55
great at it. >> He's the He might be the worst liar on planet Earth. The polygraph examiner
00:52:00
literally congratulated him on how bad of a liar he was. >> Yeah. If you watched the interview that
00:52:05
he's doing, which we're going to get into. Lies, lies, lies, >> lies, lies, lies, lies.
00:52:09
>> Bad, bad, bad lies. >> He also in that same one told her how absolutely stunning he thought she was.
00:52:15
Excuse me while I vomit for an indefinite amount of time. >> Yeah, >> you [ __ ] piece of [ __ ]
00:52:20
>> I have a lot to say. >> You [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] Now, in the days that followed, uh, Chris and Nicole
00:52:26
continued exchanging. Now, this is the days that followed after his wife announced her third pregnancy.
00:52:32
>> Yep. >> They continued exchanging casual messages through their work email, but
00:52:37
after a week, they started texting and sending messages through less official channels.
00:52:42
>> Meanwhile, Shannan filled her days with, you know, trying to keep the house together.
00:52:47
>> Yeah. Working, >> posting about her pregnancy and like trying to work. On Father's Day, she
00:52:52
posted a long message about how devoted Chris is to their family and how lucky she was to have him, alongside a video
00:52:59
of Bella singing a special song she'd memorized just for him. Oh, >> Bella, who he smothered and shoved into
00:53:08
an oil tank, in case you don't know the case. >> That's horrific. >> I hate this man with every fiber of my
00:53:14
[ __ ] being. >> Same. Now later, Chris said of his relationship with Nicole, "I thought it
00:53:20
was just flirting. I didn't think that something would actually happen." And then ready for his like, "Oh god,
00:53:26
>> I've just never been pursued by anybody before." >> You weren't pursued by Shannan when you
00:53:31
guys got together. >> Shut the [ __ ] That little innocent doeyed baby boy act doesn't [ __ ]
00:53:39
work. Like, >> it's disgusting. >> Oh, I just never had a lady interested in me before. Like, gee golly, it was
00:53:44
just so neat. I couldn't relationship that you say you had before Shannan. You also
00:53:49
>> the [ __ ] up >> dated and married Shannan. >> He's such a waste of chromosomes.
00:53:55
>> But seeing how their relationship unfolded, it's kind of hard to accept that Chris was doing nothing more than
00:54:00
flirting cuz it ramped up pretty quick for flirting to be what you were thinking was happening here. Uh after
00:54:06
they stopped sending messages through work emails, Chris and Nikki began or Nicole, whatever, began taking steps to
00:54:12
communicate through means that wouldn't be discovered. But wait a minute. I thought he was he was separating from
00:54:19
his wife. I thought this was okay. >> So why would you not need to be discovered?
00:54:23
>> I don't know. I don't know. Uh at first, Chris gave Nicole the number for his
00:54:28
work phone, knowing that Shannan regularly checked his personal phone. >> Oh, >> why are you hiding it?
00:54:34
>> Yeah. >> Huh? Then a few days later, Nicole told him that they should start communicating
00:54:39
only through their private phones so no one at work would know they were talking.
00:54:43
>> Okay. >> Why? Why? >> I don't I thought this was okay. >> Weird. Um >> very strange. Uh but Chris may not have
00:54:54
set out to have an affair with Nicole um initially when he was just ugling her in
00:55:00
the in the office. >> He probably just didn't think it was possible. >> The precautions that they were taking in
00:55:06
order to keep their communication secret makes it hard to believe the whole thing
00:55:09
was uh flirting. >> Yeah. >> Seems weird. >> Yeah. I can't imagine that. >> I'd say so.
00:55:15
>> But hey, that's just me using Logic, which is something that both of them seem to treat as like an optional
00:55:21
subscription service. So, >> I don't know. I don't know. We're not on the same thing here. We're not on the
00:55:28
same playing field, I think. >> So, the more Chris and Nicole got to know each other, the more he shared
00:55:32
about his life with Shannan. She did say, Chris said that she was all about appearances in all aspects of life,
00:55:39
which so nice that you're talking [ __ ] to your mistress about your pregnant wife.
00:55:43
>> He said that Chenan pretended everything was fine and that they never argued anything like that.
00:55:48
>> Is she supposed to be posting your arguments on Instagram? >> I'm not really sure. Do you want her to
00:55:51
post what a [ __ ] stain you are? >> Um, it was about two years earlier that he said he felt like the marriage had
00:55:57
started to go bad for them. >> So, you should have separated. And Nicole, of course, said he tried he said
00:56:02
he tried to talk to her many times, but it fell on deaf ears. >> Okay, >> cool. The more time Chris spent with
00:56:09
Nicole, the more his troubles with Shannan seemed to fade into the back of his mind because now he's distracted. By
00:56:16
the end of July, the two of them were in constant communication, his mistress and
00:56:20
him. >> And they were sneaking off to hotels or Nicole's apartment whenever they could
00:56:24
find the time. >> Chris assured Nicole that he was getting a divorce. That's what is alleged. Um,
00:56:30
>> well, they always do. >> Yeah. So, they could finally be together, but until that happened, she
00:56:35
wanted to take things slow. >> Baby, you got to see divorce papers if you're going to get set up with a man
00:56:40
who's separated, quote unquote. >> Well, and she wanted to take things slow and maybe she did. I don't know. Maybe
00:56:47
take a look at the discovery documents and see. I don't know. Maybe they to me they were a little they they made me a
00:56:53
little confused by the whole thing. But >> maybe we just have different different
00:56:56
definitions of slow. Maybe. Who knows? >> I don't know. >> Who can be sure? I wasn't there.
00:57:01
>> Yeah. >> So, she said he was like in fifth gear the entire time. Maybe it was up to me
00:57:07
to hit the brakes, but he was so kind to me. Why was I going to push him away? >> Cuz he was married and his wife was
00:57:12
pregnant. >> I literally wrote because he was married with children. Nicole, >> that's why.
00:57:16
>> Nicole, it's pretty simple. Babe, >> I got to tell you, when a guy is telling
00:57:19
you, "No, I am going to divorce my wife." >> He's not. >> And even if he is, cool. Then he will
00:57:26
wait until he does like that. It just he can't have his cake and eat it too. >> You'll sleep better.
00:57:30
>> You will. That's the thing. And it's like I'm not saying this is her fault. I'm not saying anything like that. So
00:57:35
like calm your tits. >> I'm just saying it just for you. You're like don't let him have his cake and eat
00:57:41
it too. >> Take care of that situation and then you can feel good about going forward.
00:57:46
That's just my opinion on the whole thing. >> Don't be the other woman. Be the mean
00:57:50
[ __ ] >> Exactly. >> That's my motto. And you just like he's not he's gonna keep telling you that.
00:57:56
>> Exactly. >> And you don't want to be listening to him like that. No. Make him prove it.
00:58:00
>> Yeah. >> Like that's the thing. It's like if he really is unhappy in that relationship
00:58:03
and they are together not happy then they will divorce or separate and you will be able to continue a relationship.
00:58:10
It just doesn't it's always messy when you are going to get involved before their divorce. At least from what I have
00:58:17
seen in my life. That is just my experience >> personal like what I've seen. That's
00:58:22
all. Okay. I'm not saying I'm an expert on this. I'm not saying anything like that.
00:58:25
>> No, it's just >> just saying >> just just that. >> Now, July 24th, this is directly from
00:58:31
the discovery documents, which we will link in the show notes. >> So, it is fact.
00:58:34
>> This is official. Uh July 24th, 2018, uh Nicole Google's quote, "Man I'm having
00:58:40
an affair with says he is leaving his wife." >> Oh. July 25th, 2018. Chris Googles, are
00:58:48
you ready? When to say I love you. When to say I love you in a new relationship.
00:58:54
What do you feel when someone says I love you? And how does it feel when someone says I love you?
00:59:00
>> Okay, let's save the ladder, too. When do you say I love you in a new relationship? When you're divorced.
00:59:05
>> Yeah. >> When you're officially going through the process of getting divorced.
00:59:09
>> Um and also >> when you and your wife are living separately. >> Why are you asking what human emotions
00:59:15
feel like? Like what? Why are you asking that? Why are you asking a search engine?
00:59:19
>> Babe, you have kids and you don't know what love feels like. >> You You've been with somebody and
00:59:26
married and you don't know what love feels like. >> We can laugh and joke. Like obviously
00:59:30
there's a lot to laugh and joke about there, but it actually at its very core is so scary.
00:59:35
>> It is horrifying >> that he asked Google, "What does it feel like when somebody says, "I love you."
00:59:41
>> Well, no. And you and later in one of the interviews, his mom says like he's not the psychopath. Like he's not a
00:59:47
sociopath. I'm not armchair diagnosing here cuz I I don't know what he is. He's something though.
00:59:53
>> You have to ask Google what it feels like when somebody says, "I love you." As a grown person who's been in loving
00:59:59
relationships or what seem like loving relationships, >> you >> what? Like as a father,
01:00:05
>> I I'm like, "What do you feel when your kids tell you?" >> He's not even saying like, "What does it
01:00:09
feel like when someone loves you?" He's saying like, "What does it feel like when someone says I love you?" Right.
01:00:14
>> People have said they love you. >> Why don't you know what that feels like? >> But apparently it doesn't penetrate him.
01:00:19
>> That's It's so scary. >> It is chilling. >> Yeah. Now, the discovery document also
01:00:25
shows that Nicole was googling both Shannan and Chris's Facebooks for long periods of time in
01:00:34
intermittently. Okay. So, then wouldn't she be seeing the videos where Shannan is saying what
01:00:39
a great father and husband that Chris is? That's that's what I'm a little confused about. And again, I'm not
01:00:45
claiming anything here. I'm just saying like what I I do wonder what were you thinking when you were seeing her
01:00:51
posting these. But then again, if I'm going to give the the devil's advocate here, then I'm going to say, well, okay,
01:00:57
she's seeing those. She's probably going to Chris and being like she's all about
01:01:00
appearances. >> And he's like, well, she's just about social media and appearances. Of course,
01:01:03
she's posting that. >> Oh, man. >> Cuz this is what this guy does, you know. >> Yeah. Now whether or not you know
01:01:10
Shannan by all accounts and from the discovery documents when you could see their text messages between each other
01:01:15
it didn't seem like she knew that he was having an affair. It seemed like she was
01:01:19
suspecting it. >> Okay. >> And she just didn't of course didn't want to know. >> Yeah. But that summer she had to know
01:01:26
something changed between them because it was definitely happening. It's very evident that she was understanding that.
01:01:33
Uh Chris was never great at communication, which is not a shock, but the more time he spent with Nicole, the
01:01:38
less he seemed to have anything to say to Shannan. Uh by mid July, it seemed that even his commitment to secrecy had
01:01:45
started to slip because on more than one occasion, he stayed the night at Nicole's apartment.
01:01:50
>> What the [ __ ] Didn't come home to his pregnant wife and two children. >> Two children.
01:01:55
>> That's [ __ ] >> And by the end of July, they had expressed their love for each other. So
01:02:00
that Google started >> So Google said July sounds good. Uh, and he vowed again to divorce his wife so
01:02:05
they could be together, but he hadn't yet. Now, throughout much of the summer, Shannan and the girls were actually in
01:02:11
North Carolina visiting family. Chris had found an excuse to stay behind in Colorado. Of
01:02:16
>> course, he did. >> So, he could be with Nicole. >> Yeah. >> Uh, those weeks that Shannan was away
01:02:20
were, according to Chris, the freest he had ever felt in years without his children
01:02:28
>> and away from his pregnant wife. And the thought of that coming to an end was so
01:02:32
deeply frustrating. >> That's so scary. He spent the entire time with his mistress. And in the later
01:02:40
interviews with police, she said that they had to lie to the babysitter so she wouldn't know where they that they were
01:02:45
be together. When they came home from this trip, Shannan went on a work trip and he was still going out with his
01:02:52
mistress and having the babysitter babysit the kids and telling them that he was going on to work things.
01:02:57
>> What the [ __ ] and she knew that. >> I'm going to keep my comments to myself.
01:03:03
>> Now, back to the North Carolina trip with the girls and Shannan being gone. Shannan was looking forward to returning
01:03:09
home from this trip. Uh, she wanted to see Chris. She wanted to talk about things. Um, but during the trip, if you
01:03:16
again look at the discovery documents where there's all the text messages, it's pretty [ __ ] heart-wrenching. The
01:03:22
discussions between the two are is her literally begging him to give her anything. Just any kind of confirmation
01:03:29
that he loved her, confirmation that he was excited to have another baby. >> While she's carrying his child, she's
01:03:35
begging him for confirmation that he loves her. >> And at one point, she says, "How do you
01:03:38
fall in love with out of love with someone in 5 weeks?" >> Oh my god. >> And she's literally saying to him, "This
01:03:44
came out of nowhere." >> Right? >> Like literally came out of nowhere. She said when he when she showed back up, he
01:03:50
was cold and distant again. And she was saying this to friends, like texting them because he was a spineless little
01:03:54
thumb and he should have just said, "I want to get separated." >> Yep. >> Now, the first two weeks of August were
01:03:59
a huge departure from the norm in the house. The more Chris pulled away from Shannan, the more she was just begging
01:04:04
him to open up and talk to her about what was wrong. And as far as she could tell, everything had been fine when she
01:04:09
left for North Carolina. And she said now that he was home, he wanted nothing to do with her. Like, didn't even want
01:04:15
to touch her. She told a friend that it felt like it came out of nowhere. She kept asking over and over like how do
01:04:20
you fall in love with out of love with somebody so quickly and August 4th, which is in the
01:04:27
beginning of August where we are right now where this is all falling apart. >> Nicole searched wedding dresses for two
01:04:32
hours. >> Oh [ __ ] >> For two hours. That's according to the discovery documents.
01:04:38
>> What the [ __ ] Now, between all of this are multiple texts again where Shannan
01:04:43
is upset and begging him for anything. She says they were all over each other when she left and couldn't get enough of
01:04:50
each other. And she's like, "And then all of a sudden you don't want anything to do with me." That's how quickly he
01:04:55
from somebody else. >> He had five weeks of his mistress and now he has shut off everything to
01:05:01
Shannan. Like he she says he would barely kiss her at the airport. Oh, and during some of the most emotional texts
01:05:08
that she's sending, these big long blocks of texts where she's spilling her entire heart out, Chris Watts was
01:05:15
googling the distance between Moon and Earth. >> What? Yeah. >> What? his pregnant wife is spilling her
01:05:26
heart out to him, begging him just to tell her that it's okay and that he loves her and that he's going to take
01:05:34
like that they're going to be a family and that all of this and he is sitting there googling in the middle of these
01:05:39
texts what's the different distance between Earth and the moon. >> So she literally meant nothing to him at
01:05:46
this point. He is >> he's to be that unbothered unbothered >> while your pre I can't express this
01:05:54
enough like I cannot >> your pregnant wife and mother of your already two born children is begging you
01:06:02
to give her anything and you're doing a science experiment. >> Yeah. He went he didn't answer one at
01:06:07
one point when she was just going on and on and on and she goes she literally said I'm your pregnant wife is spilling
01:06:14
their heart out to you and our marriage is crumbling before us and you're just falling asleep.
01:06:18
>> He's not even falling asleep >> and he and at that point I think he did >> he's applying for an internship at NASA.
01:06:23
What the [ __ ] Like what is wrong with you? August 8th, 2018. According to the discovery documents, we're our official
01:06:31
record. Um, Nicole searched quote, "Marrying your mistress." >> Oh, so she to call yourself the mistress too is
01:06:41
like, >> well, it implies, you know, >> of course it does. >> I'm just saying that that search
01:06:46
implies, you know, >> I'm not saying I'm covering my ass here. I'm not saying anything. But
01:06:54
>> um Shannan at this point was also googling um because she had come home and when she came home they went through
01:07:00
a lot. They were going through everything. But then Shannan said like they were having good discussions when
01:07:05
she got home. They were starting to talk through things. He was still being cold
01:07:08
and distant and he was still saying some things like I don't know what's going on
01:07:11
in my head. >> And she was googling emotionbased couples therapy. She was googling
01:07:16
different couples therapy things. She was like really trying to fix this whole thing,
01:07:21
>> which like I can only imagine like you know how it feels to be pregnant. Like
01:07:24
I'm sure your emotions are high already in a perfect marriage >> and then to have this [ __ ] as your
01:07:30
partner. >> Like that she doesn't need to be under that much stress. >> Now August 9th, Shannan went on a work
01:07:36
trip to Arizona and again she was in a much better mood where and she was talking to friends saying that you know
01:07:43
she was having discussions. He had told her he loved her again because he wasn't
01:07:48
saying that before, >> but she said he was still cold. And at the same time that this is going on that
01:07:54
she's texting her friends that things are getting better, he was transferring pictures of Nicole onto a secret
01:08:01
calculator app on his phone. He does that often. >> Okay. >> They sent a lot of pictures to each
01:08:06
other. And he had a secret calculator app which he would keep them in so Shannan couldn't find them. And those
01:08:13
things get transferred into that app during the weirdest [ __ ] times. Let me tell you, go take a peek at those
01:08:20
discovery documents and read the text messages. >> So that's an app designed to look like a
01:08:24
calculator that you can like hide [ __ ] in. >> I suppose I did not look it up even
01:08:28
exists. >> It's just called a secret calculator app in the discovery documents and I didn't
01:08:33
look any further than that. >> You need to look at what a secret calculator. >> I was I was like I don't know that this
01:08:38
exists. >> Is that like designed for cheating? probably pisses me off >> cuz it's probably like looks like a
01:08:42
calculator. So, it's like you would never >> I'm looking at >> But remember, if you have an iPhone,
01:08:47
there's only one calculator on there. >> Yeah, >> it is a thing. They're vault apps
01:08:53
disguised, this is from Google, as functional calculators to hide photos, video files, and notes behind a pin.
01:08:59
>> Why do those exist? These apps operate with a private password. >> What the? So he was
01:09:05
>> he transferred photos particularly of Nicole into that app several times. >> Yeah.
01:09:13
>> And in the middle of very intense, very emotional conversations with his wife.
01:09:19
>> One of these apps you can hide photos and videos. It includes a secure browser
01:09:24
so you can like separately Google crazy [ __ ] >> Wow. >> Notes and the ability to take new
01:09:29
pictures directly into the app. >> Wow. I did not know that was a thing. >> You can even put You can even put
01:09:37
contacts in there. >> You know who did know that that was a thing? Chris Watts. >> Chris Watts.
01:09:41
>> Wow. >> Meanwhile, as he's doing that, Shannan had ordered a book on Amazon about
01:09:46
talking through problems as a couple >> and like finding love together again. >> Oh my god.
01:09:51
>> When it was delivered, she was in Arizona and got a notification that it was delivered. So, she was like, "Go
01:09:56
check the mail." They found that book in the garage in a trash can. >> Are you [ __ ] kidding He's disgusting.
01:10:03
>> So, while the time now while she's in Arizona on this work trip, they had very
01:10:08
nice text messages back and forth with each other. They were talking about the girls, saying they loved each other
01:10:14
during this time, calling each other like he called her Boo. Like, they were like very sending pictures of the girls
01:10:21
to each other, commenting on the girl, like talking about the new baby days before, hours before he would murder
01:10:28
them all. And at the same time, he was also hanging out with the the mistress and lying like lying to the babysitter.
01:10:34
Yep. >> That was during that trip. >> Yep. >> Awesome. >> That now on August 11th, Nicole and
01:10:41
Chris went to dinner. And usually, now this is when uh in Arizona. And usually, according to Nicole, he paid for dinner
01:10:49
with gift cards to hide it from his wife because remember he's divorcing her, but
01:10:55
>> she can't know about this. But that night, he used a credit card and she was shocked by this and took it as a sign
01:11:02
that he was really ready to leave her. I take it as a clear indication that he didn't plan for it to be a problem
01:11:08
anymore. I It's so crazy that you just got to this part of the story cuz I was just thinking to myself, at what point
01:11:15
did he decide to murder her? >> Feels like it might have been here. >> Yeah. >> It's at the very least very highly
01:11:22
suspect to me. >> Yeah. that he's, you know, and I understand that Nicole took it as like,
01:11:27
okay, he's ready to >> she's not going to think he's going to murder his wife. >> Yeah, of course.
01:11:31
>> Like, no, nobody thinks that way. >> I'm sitting here saying looks to me like
01:11:35
he didn't think it would be a problem. I don't know what he was thinking there, but
01:11:41
>> that's so scary. >> In the discovery documents, you will also see that he regularly frequented my
01:11:47
prepaidenter.com, which was a prepaid visa site where you could reload onto that. So, he was only using gift cards
01:11:53
usually. >> Uh, in recovered text, this is just a side thing because it shows you how
01:11:58
[ __ ] weird he is in a text recovered from their phones, which by the way, Nicole and Chris deleted a lot of their
01:12:06
texts when he was arrested, >> but they still found them. >> Of course, they did. You can't delete
01:12:12
>> text actually deleted, >> but they show in the discovery documents which ones were deleted. And she also
01:12:18
deleted all his stuff off her phone when they brought her in for questioning. >> Yikes.
01:12:23
>> But that's just fact. Um he also called her his sexy empanada. >> No. >> At one point, and here's the thing, I
01:12:30
just stumbled on that one. I I How could I ever be looking for that? >> An empanada is like a meat pie.
01:12:35
>> Thank you. I just thought that was it. It popped. I 11:30 at night last night.
01:12:41
I'm sitting there scrolling like a [ __ ] goblin through these discovery documents. like the text that popped up
01:12:47
and I said, "I'm sorry, what?" >> He was super socially awkward. >> That's the thing. Like, who's call sexy
01:12:54
to be a to be a pet name? >> Like, get out of here. >> If you ever called me his sexy empanada,
01:12:58
I'd be like, "What did I do to upset you?" >> Literally, I'd be like, "What is that?"
01:13:01
Like, "Why are you trying to insult me? >> Like, are you all right? >> Sexy empanada."
01:13:05
>> Had to throw that in there because it was just so absurd. >> What? Um, and again, I highly highly
01:13:10
suggest that if you um if you have some time on your hands to take a peek through the discovery documents because
01:13:16
they really do give you such an overview of what was going on, what >> Well, I do
01:13:21
>> what they were searching, what they were talking about, things between him and
01:13:24
Shannan. It gives you a better picture of Shannan and his relationship. >> What I was just going to say is besides
01:13:29
what other people were putting on it. so many rumors when it comes to this case and it's sad discovery because a lot of
01:13:35
them are like a lot of people [ __ ] on Shannan and say she was doineering and she was this and she was that. So I
01:13:41
agree with you. Go look at the discovery. >> Yeah, cuz no matter what I don't give a
01:13:44
[ __ ] She didn't deserve to be murdered. >> And also >> I don't care if she was doineering. Like
01:13:49
who knows? I don't know. I wasn't in the relationship. She doesn't deserve to be
01:13:52
murdered. >> Of course not. And clearly she was blindsided by this whole thing. >> Well that and that's what I mean. like
01:13:57
the discovery documents really give you a clearer picture of what their relationship was and like what how they
01:14:03
were talking to each other, right? >> And it's like it doesn't matter what what the relationship was like or what
01:14:09
she was like or whatever. She's not here to to negate that to say what was happening or speak on it. So, it's
01:14:16
really [ __ ] up to be like, well, she was doineering. Okay, so he should strangle her to death, right,
01:14:22
>> in front of her children? Like, is that really what we think here? Like, come
01:14:26
on, get a grip. Now, in the at the early morning hours of August 13th, 2018, Shenan returned home from the work trip
01:14:34
in Arizona. She had sent him a text before taking off on the plane that said, "Finally on plane and about to
01:14:39
take off. Prayers for a safe flight. Love you." And he didn't respond. >> Nice. >> Pregnant wife was getting on a plane
01:14:46
home and didn't respond. >> Wow. after being dropped off at the house um by her friend Nikki Atinson, Nicole
01:14:53
Atinson >> because he couldn't bother to go pick her up from the airport. >> Um I'll give him this. It it was very
01:14:59
late. It was in the middle of the night and the girls were home. >> Okay. >> So he would have had to take them out at
01:15:04
like 1:00 in the morning. So I'll give him that. >> All right. >> But she went inside leaving her suitcase
01:15:08
by the front door and she walked up to bed trying not to wake the girls. Hours later, Shannan's friend, friend of the
01:15:16
century. Yeah. >> Hours later, Shannan's friend, friend of the century, Nicole Atkinson, called
01:15:23
Shannan's phone to check in. Shannan had missed an appointment with her OBGYn. >> That's why I said earlier, it's very
01:15:30
interesting that he used to manage her doctor's appointments. >> Well, once he got distracted.
01:15:34
>> Yeah. Clearly wasn't doing anymore. >> And she So, she missed the appointment
01:15:38
and she hadn't responded to any of their texts. So Nicole was getting worried. Um
01:15:43
when she couldn't get a hold of Shannan by phone, Nicole Atinson went to the house and found it empty. Uh but she
01:15:50
found Shannan's car there. Her shoes that she always wore were by the door. She could see them and she was like,
01:15:56
"Something's off." So she assumed Chris was at work, but Shannan and the girls were nowhere to be seen. So concerned
01:16:02
about her friend, she called Chris at work, but he said he hadn't seen Shannan since she got home earlier that morning.
01:16:09
So, a group of her friends all band together to text Chris their concerns. They She had friends, let me tell you.
01:16:16
Her friend Cassandra, who like goes by Cassie, texted him about it. And her uh his response was, "She went to a
01:16:22
friend's house with the kids. She won't tell me where, though. When I got home, I'll update you."
01:16:28
>> What? She won't tell you where. >> What? And like her friends are texting you. I would assume that they may know
01:16:33
her other friend. Well, that was what was immediately suspicious to them because like who is this friend? What
01:16:38
the [ __ ] do you mean? >> This is her friend group. >> So, they pressed. >> They didn't let it go.
01:16:43
>> They said they knew that the the couple was having issues and that Shannan was
01:16:47
in a bad way emotionally because of this and they were worried. He was most concerned about them not thinking he was
01:16:53
a bad guy. Meanwhile, this is hours out of him murdering his pregnant wife and children, by the way. But he doesn't
01:16:59
want her her friends to think he's a bad guy. >> But Shannan's the one that's all about
01:17:02
appearances. Cassie responds, "Queen [ __ ] Right now, I don't care about you or your relationship or what
01:17:10
type of person you are or not or what you what I think of you. I'm not trying to be rude when I say that."
01:17:16
>> And she was like, "But just what the [ __ ] going on?" She was like, "I literally don't care about you and I
01:17:21
don't care about your like" Like, they were like, "We don't even like you. >> We just care about Shenan."
01:17:24
>> Meanwhile, during this, he was texting a realer about their unfinished basement.
01:17:30
>> What? >> Yeah. discovery documents. Cassie told him her only concern was quote for his
01:17:36
damn wife and her well-being. >> Good. >> And then she let him have it. She told
01:17:40
him Nikki was calling the police. Nicole, she was calling the police and said, "So unless you want the police to
01:17:45
bust your damn door down, you get home and check on your family." >> Period. >> Queen [ __ ]
01:17:50
>> Period. >> Queen [ __ ] Chris was desperate for them not to call the police. He begged them
01:17:56
not to. He said he was coming home and they were like, "Fuck you." >> Cuz what? Like your wife and children
01:18:01
are missing. Why are you begging us not to call the police? >> Exactly. So Nikki Atkinson called the
01:18:05
Frederick Police Department to report Shannan missing and asked that they go to the house to conduct a well-being
01:18:10
check. >> Yeah. >> Also, there was a group chat with Shannan's friends and her in it. And one
01:18:15
of them said at the time, "The police are here and they need to check Chris's phone and computer."
01:18:20
>> Wow. >> Here's the thing. If I went missing, I tell you right now, I know for a fact
01:18:27
>> that none of my friends first reaction would be, "John did it." Nope. Same. >> If your first reaction is that heavily,
01:18:36
I think he might have done it. >> He's done it. Like at the very least, he's a piece of [ __ ] Like that.
01:18:43
>> I can guarantee. I even said this in front of Deb and every I was like, would
01:18:46
you have thought to check John's phone and computer? She was like, nope. That would not even cross my mind.
01:18:53
>> Like, that's bad. And during all of this, his mistress Nicole called him and he called her several times, but on both
01:19:02
ends they had deleted the calls. Sus. Which, like, why did you do that? >> Sus. Also, during this time, during this
01:19:12
time, during this time, during this time, hours after what we find out later, he had killed his pregnant wife
01:19:20
and his three and fouryear-old daughters. He had, we'll get into it later, don't worry. He had buried
01:19:27
Shannan's body in an oil field and he had shoved the bodies of his three and four yearear-old daughters into an oil
01:19:33
tank >> that they could barely fit into. >> And now during the time when her friends are now
01:19:41
freaking out and he knows what he's done, he sent one final image of his mistress to that secret calculator app.
01:19:49
Are you [ __ ] kidding me? It's in the discovery documents. What the [ __ ] dude? I was
01:20:00
speechless. That takes an evil like I can't comprehend. >> Yeah. >> And also, what are you hiding it from?
01:20:12
>> Well, that's what are you doing? >> Do you think that the police don't see those?
01:20:16
>> Well, that's the thing. I'm like, I think he thought that would be like secret from everybody. Wow. What a
01:20:21
[ __ ] [ __ ] >> Because it's a wind tunnel up there. >> It is a wind tunnel up there. Wow.
01:20:28
>> That is just so diabolical. Your children >> are submerged in an oil tank and your
01:20:35
pregnant wife and unborn child are in the dirt at your work >> and you're sitting there sending spicy
01:20:46
images to a secret [ __ ] file. You just killed three children and your wife. >> Like I'm just like my brain literally
01:20:53
can't comprehend. >> You just annihilated your entire family. Let's call it what it is.
01:20:57
>> Well, that's and maybe it's because this case in particular, one, it's so brutal
01:21:01
and so unthinkable, but two, we have those discovery things and we have so much documentation of every movement of
01:21:08
it that you can really see everything in real time about his dayto-day that it's
01:21:12
just like whoa. Cuz a lot of cases we don't get that. We don't get the >> fullown
01:21:17
>> what's he doing while this is all happening and you get to see this and it's just like oh my god
01:21:22
>> the lack of humanity. >> It's something about that just like threw me for a >> like those are your children.
01:21:31
>> Yeah. >> Those are your children. And the discovery showed that um Nicole Kessinger uh also spent four hours
01:21:38
searching the internet for Chris Watts Shannan's disappearance and things like it, but she deleted it.
01:21:45
>> Okay. >> She also searched >> She also searched and again this is all in there. I'm not
01:21:51
>> Yeah. >> She also searched can cops uh find deleted deleted text messages. >> Yes.
01:21:56
>> How long do phone companies keep text messages? >> And then she deleted all of that. girl.
01:22:03
>> No, >> I'm sorry. The people that think that when you delete something from the
01:22:08
internet that it's just Where do you think it goes? >> Like you don't think they can recover
01:22:12
anything. >> It's such simple thinking. It really is. >> I know that like because of what we do
01:22:17
like we're so much more privy to that kind of information. But like I think even when I was a teenager, I didn't
01:22:23
like get into crazy [ __ ] cuz I was that like cuz I'm normal, but also like >> cuz I'm normal.
01:22:28
>> I know that everything can be tracked. I just don't get the And also, it's just
01:22:33
like and it looks suspicious no matter what. Even if you have nothing to do with anything, just don't do that. It
01:22:39
just doesn't look good. >> No. >> So, an officer arrived at the Watts house a little after 1:30 p.m. And with
01:22:45
Chris's permission, he entered the house. As um Nikki Atinson had said, there was no sign of Shannan and the
01:22:51
girls. More concerning was that while Shannan herself was missing, her car, phone, and wallet were all still inside
01:22:58
the house, and her suitcase was still by the front door. Nothing else in the house appeared to have been disturbed,
01:23:04
there was no sign of break-in because he had killed them. >> Uh-huh. >> Upstairs in Chris and Shannan's bedroom,
01:23:09
they found her wedding ring on the bedside table, >> which I think he planted. >> I It makes sense. Now, to be clear, he
01:23:16
let them in, but first, he went through the garage and made them wait for several minutes before letting them in.
01:23:21
>> Yeah. So now their neighbor Nathaniel Trina Stitch, who I will refer to as Nate,
01:23:28
>> homie of the century, >> another hero here. There's so many people that really came out
01:23:33
>> came through >> to really push this thing way further, way quicker than it probably would have
01:23:39
if they had not been honestly like it it takes a lot of like hutbah >> to like stick your neck out.
01:23:46
>> Yeah. >> And these people investigation when like you're literally in the room with cops.
01:23:51
>> Yeah. It's like very impressive. That can be intimidating because I it's that's hard and I'm glad that these
01:23:56
people did. >> So Nate, the Watts neighbor, called police inside of his home to show them
01:24:01
security camera footage that had a great view of Watts's driveway >> as well as the road in front of all the
01:24:06
houses. Chris had no idea that there was a clear shot of his truck pulling in and
01:24:12
out of the driveway that morning. >> Wow. >> And if you watch the body cam footage of
01:24:16
him watching this, he is freaking the [ __ ] out. I have never seen his hands are folded on top of his head and
01:24:23
extended to his sides like he can barely breathe >> swaying back and forth. >> He's losing his reaction is so guilty.
01:24:31
You can tell in this moment that he said, "I'm caught. >> He's got his It's wild." Like, and then
01:24:38
every now and then he'll just stop watching the footage and look at his phone. I have a question because I asked
01:24:44
John this and he was like, "Are you [ __ ] kidding me? If I was like, if if I was missing and our children weren't
01:24:50
missing and our neighbor said, "I have security camera footage of the whole outside of your house of the time that
01:24:55
she has been gone." >> Glued to it. >> You would be looking at every [ __ ] pixel on there hoping to see something.
01:25:01
>> You would be glued to it. Yep. >> He barely looks at it. He keeps looking away. He keeps looking at his phone.
01:25:08
>> Aren't you waiting to see if someone came and stole your whole family? >> No, cuz he knows that nobody did. I just
01:25:14
like I like you would never look away from that. >> You can find this video by the way and
01:25:20
go watch this video. >> Uh we'll see if we can post one of them. >> I think Drew and I were talking about it
01:25:25
cuz he Drew is not even super into true crime, but he remembers this case and he
01:25:28
was like I remember that being like one of the craziest breaks in this case. >> Oh yeah, I showed John. He was shocked.
01:25:34
He's losing it. His eyes are bugging. He's swallowing hard. His voice is shaking. And he tells the cops several
01:25:40
times that he had been bringing tools out to his truck a lot. And Nate is watching this [ __ ] and also
01:25:46
contradicting everything he said. Like Nate is not afraid to be like, "No, not true."
01:25:50
>> So when the detective rolls up, Nate has already checked the footage to see if
01:25:53
Shannan left the house during the time period she's been missing or if someone else showed up and left with her.
01:25:58
>> Nope. >> And he tells the detective right away, "No one is caught on that camera." And
01:26:02
he says, "I would have caught it." One of the people in the house says that they only have Chris pulling up to right
01:26:08
up to his garage. And they were like, "Why did you pull right up to the garage? does that.
01:26:13
>> And he immediately gets defensive and is still trying to say he just has so many
01:26:17
tools that he was loot loading so many tools loading just tools all over the place. Did I mention tools and loading
01:26:24
them into my truck because I did that. I do that. It's my thing. Like he literally mentions these tools and
01:26:30
loading them a hundred times. >> And he's also looking at his phone, but you can see he's doing that thing that
01:26:36
you do to not have to look anyone in the eyes. Like it's why like where you're just like pretending to be on your
01:26:40
phone. Like you can see while he's beeping and booping that it's the move you make when you're uncomfortable in
01:26:45
public and you just want to like look busy. >> So you just kind of like open and close
01:26:49
apps on your phone and don't actually do anything. He's doing that. >> We've all done it, but we haven't all
01:26:55
been doing that to cover the fact that our neighbor just cracked the case of us annihilating our entire family 6 hours
01:27:00
earlier. He's a [ __ ] idiot. Um, during this, Nate absolutely destroys Chris's nervous system further by
01:27:08
explaining that his camera actually picks up anyone coming down the street from any direction. So, if someone left
01:27:14
or if someone came, they would have got it on camera. And then he just clicks it
01:27:18
back on and says, "And this is him at 517." While this happens, did you think Chris
01:27:24
would miss another opportunity to mention him loading tools? >> No. >> Don't worry, he's still talking about
01:27:30
loading tools. The problem here is that he isn't looking at the footage. He won't look at the footage.
01:27:36
>> So, he wouldn't know what he was doing. >> I would be crouched down just staring at
01:27:40
this footage trying to find something. Nate just keeps reiterating that if he he would have seen someone on this tape
01:27:46
if there was any action at this house. And he even shows them the previous night where it caught cars coming from
01:27:52
each direction. >> He's like, "Oh, and look at this day three days ago where it caught somebody
01:27:57
coming from this direction." He is not. >> This security system doesn't quit much
01:28:02
like myself. >> He said, "Hell yeah, let's He said, "This [ __ ] is weird and you should be
01:28:06
seeing this." >> So they see him loading Shenana and the children into the garage.
01:28:10
>> They see So that's the What he did was he pulled He backed up into his driveway. He opened the garage and he
01:28:16
backed up. So the bed of the truck is in the garage. >> He put Shannan in the bed of the truck
01:28:21
and then he brought the girls into the truck. So, can does the footage show him putting the kids in the truck at like a
01:28:27
weird >> You can't see it because it's like on the other side of the So, you see him
01:28:31
going in there, >> but and you can see that he's doing something. >> Now, at this point, the detective is
01:28:36
speaking to his radio, like talking to another detective. And Chris is like, "Do they need me next door? Should I
01:28:42
leave? Should I go? Should I get out of here? Get >> the [ __ ] out of there." >> And the cop is like, "No." But he just
01:28:47
wants to get the [ __ ] up out of there so badly. He's so upset at this point. He
01:28:51
is like cracking and then something incredible happens. >> This is next level. You can't tell me
01:28:59
that some force is not at work here. >> Like >> you cannot tell me. >> This is incredible. Right next to Chris
01:29:05
as he looks away, the screen changes. It's a American Horror Story commercial. >> Mhm.
01:29:10
>> It's a commercial showing a fetus in a womb. Chris looks over right as it appears and
01:29:17
he stares at it for a second and then he looks up at the cop and he has a look. He looks like he's about to puke. Yep.
01:29:24
>> And he says she was pregnant too. >> Like it it like made him confess that >> and he says that this and as he says
01:29:32
that the screen next to him changes to an explosion like a mushroom cloud which so weird for that to happen. and then a
01:29:41
skull being covered by oil. What are the odds of that? >> What are the odds that those two images
01:29:50
were next to each other? >> And that's just like a lapse in Nate showing the security camera footage.
01:29:56
>> That's just him like clicking back out of it and into it again. >> By happen stance, that commercial was
01:30:00
playing. >> Yeah, >> that's not happen stance. That is Oh, that is some [ __ ] universal [ __ ] at
01:30:07
work. And when Chris turns his entire body away from the TV at this point, it's wild. He's sweating. He honestly
01:30:15
sounds out of breath and like his voice is trembling all of a sudden. He was affected by it.
01:30:21
>> How could you not be? >> It was unbelievable. But when >> And also, I'm sorry for him to go and
01:30:26
she's she's pregnant as well. >> You didn't mention that at the top of the [ __ ] day when you when she got
01:30:31
reported missing. >> Yeah. >> Why is that just coming up? >> Hello. Now, when Chris does well, he
01:30:37
didn't report her missing. So, >> but like all we're this far into this where the neighbor's like, "Oh, I have
01:30:42
security camera footage." And you still haven't told your the cops that your wife missing is pregnant.
01:30:47
>> He doesn't care. >> That's just bonkers. Like, be better at >> Oh, he >> You could say be better at a lot of
01:30:54
things. He sucks at all of this. >> It's nuts. When Chris does leave finally, when he's like when you know
01:31:00
fate shines upon him and lets him out of that house, >> Nate immediate, he literally watches him
01:31:05
leave, waits for the door to shut, looks right at the detective and says, "He's not acting right.
01:31:09
>> He's not." >> He points out the inconsistencies, the lack of video showing anyone coming or
01:31:14
going besides him. the fact that he never loads tools in and out of his garage and points out his body language,
01:31:21
how he didn't look worried. He kept overexplaining the loading tools into the truck thing. And the fact that,
01:31:26
according to Nate, quote, "He's normally quiet, real subdued. He's over here telling you three times what he took out
01:31:32
and what he did, what he did, what he did. He never talks." So, the fact that he's over here blabbing his mouth makes
01:31:37
me kind of suspicious. His neighbor literally gave that detective a [ __ ] gift because he hammered him in front of that
01:31:47
detective. Yep. >> And made it so much easier to see what was going on here. >> He also says that they were clearly
01:31:53
having problems when Shannan left for vacation for 5 weeks. And he said him and his wife were actually worried that
01:31:59
something had happened to her during those 5 weeks. That's telling. >> It is. >> It's unbelievable footage to be honest.
01:32:06
It's truly unbeliev the entire thing. What's important though is how Shenan's friends [ __ ] did the damn thing. Her
01:32:13
neighbors, her friends, like Nate, >> everybody, >> they didn't let up. They put pressure on
01:32:17
him. And within like 6 hours of him killing his entire family, he was having to answer for it already.
01:32:24
>> He had no time to formulate a fake story or try to cover something up like he
01:32:29
thought he would have. >> He was finding himself with his feet held firmly to the fire right away. And
01:32:35
he was [ __ ] up. That night, he facetimed his mistress. >> Hello. >> According to the discovery, he said she
01:32:45
said he was sitting on a bare mattress when he did. And she asked where the sheets were and he was all ky and said
01:32:51
he just wanted to wash them. >> Why would you want to wash the sheets when your wife went missing from that
01:32:56
house and your children did allegedly? >> Which, by the way, he murdered Shannan
01:32:59
in their bed. Y. So, she said he was quiet and that he just kind of stared at her during the call.
01:33:05
>> He loves to just >> He's such a [ __ ] lech. Like, he's such a weird creepy [ __ ] Also, remember
01:33:11
his whole family is missing, quote unquote, and he's facetiming his mistress >> in his room.
01:33:18
>> Like, that would put that would give me pause. >> Excuse me. In him and his wife's room.
01:33:22
>> Like, that would give me a lot of pause. Now, according to discovery documents as
01:33:27
well, on August 13th, uh Nicole, his mistress, found out through the media that his wife was pregnant. She did not
01:33:34
know before. >> Oh, so she found out that day that Shannan went missing. >> And she confronted him about it. And his
01:33:39
response was to ask, "Does this ruin our relationship?" >> The fact that your missing wife and two
01:33:46
children and unborn child are missing. >> No, he was just concerned with >> Also, Shannon was only, I believe, like
01:33:53
>> 15 weeks. Yeah. 15 weeks. So, >> like, do the math there, babe. Like, >> he had a relationship with both of you.
01:34:01
>> And also, it's just like you're saying Shannan is all about appearances. All you gave a [ __ ] with her friends about
01:34:07
was, "Don't think I'm a bad guy. Don't think I'm a bad guy." And now to Nicole, your mistress, you're saying like, "Does
01:34:12
this ruin everything? I don't want it to ruin everything. >> You still want to pursue somebody while
01:34:16
your whole family and children are missing?" And Nicole even said like Kessinger even said that at this time he
01:34:22
did not seem concerned for his family and instead was solely focused on their relationship.
01:34:28
>> That had to have been scary. >> Yeah. And I think it was for her. Also, there was some talk about like should I
01:34:35
pawn her wedding ring >> that was going on during this time. I don't know exactly what was said, so I
01:34:41
won't pretend I do, but there was like some talk of that. >> Why would you pawn her wedding ring?
01:34:45
>> Exactly. She's just missing. >> On August 14th, he the next day he gave what is quite possibly the most damning
01:34:54
and guilty interview with the Denver ABC affiliate station that I have ever or will ever see in my life.
01:35:00
>> We were pausing at certain parts like just like to move on to the next thing.
01:35:04
And he if you pause, he will be full-blown smiling ear to ear at certain points.
01:35:09
>> I have watched this video like a hundred times at this point. And then I watched
01:35:13
this um there's this umangage clinical psychologist and body language expert Dr. G on he's on Tik Tok and on YouTube
01:35:22
I think um we'll link him because he's I think he's fascinating. >> Um he's really good at like analyzing
01:35:28
these things because he doesn't go overboard and he'll say like hey don't pay attention to this thing this isn't
01:35:34
really telling kind of thing. Um, so I watched it a bunch, then I watched a video with him to go through it. And
01:35:40
what I saw was Chris Watts is [ __ ] deadeyed in this. Like deadeyed to the point where you're like,
01:35:46
>> is this a condition? Like what's going on? Why do you have nothing behind there?
01:35:50
>> No affect smiling. No effect. We're going to get to that. >> No affect at all though. No affect. Just
01:35:57
dead. Monotone. Can't even come up with an emotion. There are several things that I noticed here. So, one, he
01:36:04
swallows hard several times. Big gulping swallows. >> Huge gulps. >> Noticeably,
01:36:09
>> he's pursing his lips and gritting his teeth, which he does during the video with Nate as well. Whenever Nate will
01:36:15
point something out, he grits his teeth. >> Mhm. >> That seems to be one of his tells. When
01:36:20
he mentions Cece or Bella, he closes his eyes every single time. >> Mhm. >> And what Dr. G when I watched him said
01:36:28
about that particular thing because I was wondering what that meant. He said that this could be that what happened
01:36:34
espec because he particularly does it when he says Bella. >> Yeah. >> And he said this could be that he said I
01:36:39
I feel like something particularly heinous happened there that he's trying to block out of his head or just doesn't
01:36:45
want to watch again or knows it was particularly bad. And when we get into the details I'm not going to go into
01:36:50
like super details because to be honest my psyche can't handle it. But I know them now and I'll work through that. But
01:36:57
he is correct that there was extra stuff with Bella that I assume. I mean he's not a real person. So I don't I don't
01:37:07
know what if that's just to me that blink that slow close of his eyes is more what I analyze it as is like that's
01:37:16
your child. So biologically there has to be something that zings a little with your child. Maybe I'm not a psychopath.
01:37:23
So, I don't know if they have that, >> but like I imagine there has to be some kind of primitive biological
01:37:30
evolutionary connection to your child that like >> something that awful your body would
01:37:35
just kind of like without even an emotion attached to it just like >> save yourself from.
01:37:40
>> It's a it's a body response. >> Yeah. I think it's not a a heart or soul response. I think it's a bodily
01:37:46
physiological response that like comes from [ __ ] when we were sludged >> involuntary. It's like uh your brain is
01:37:54
like, "Oh [ __ ] my job is to protect you from that, so I'm going to close your eyes." You know what I mean? Like I
01:37:59
think it's that clinical. >> It's just like how your body keeps breathing even like
01:38:02
>> Yeah. I don't think it's that >> he has a feeling about it. Like I don't think he cares. I don't think that it
01:38:08
hurts him. I think he just has a primitive like, >> "Yeah, that was really bad, you know,
01:38:13
like." And so he closes his eyes cuz he does it every time. It's very noticeable
01:38:17
and very consistent. Uh he's swaying, he's hugging himself, which could and and when I watched the Dr. G video, he
01:38:24
also said this. That's like a self soothing thing and also like a nervous thing.
01:38:28
>> So even if he was actually missing, he might have done the same thing. >> Yeah. Like I don't I would probably do
01:38:33
that too, I guess. I don't know. But then he smiles >> a lot. >> A lot. >> He cannot It's again It seems
01:38:42
involuntary. He can't [ __ ] help it. Well, and it starts when the interviewer said when he tells the interviewer that
01:38:48
he hopes Shenan and the kids are safe. That's when he starts smiling because he knows they're not.
01:38:54
And there's something called Duper's Delight. I find this so fascinating. So, so horrible, but so fascinating.
01:39:01
>> So, basically what Duper's Delight is, and this has been connected to him a lot.
01:39:05
>> Yeah. is that like somebody who lies and you know manipulates will feel like a
01:39:11
smuggness and like some kind of delight like a happiness >> when they are deceiving someone
01:39:16
>> or they think they are at the least >> and they're when they're getting away with it which he is right now.
01:39:21
>> So that's that's genuine >> and it manifests as this little like smirk or like grin that he gets. He gets
01:39:28
it often in this interview. It's not. And I'm glad that like because when I was watching it, I was like, listen, I
01:39:34
will smile in weird situations because I get nervous and I'm social when your three children are missing.
01:39:40
>> This is just simply not one of I will I will tell you, sure, don't judge people's responses to certain things. I
01:39:46
100% judge this because there is I was saying this earlier, my body wouldn't be able to form a smile. No. If my children
01:39:54
were actually missing and my husband was missing, I would be in such severe grief
01:40:00
and turmoil that my body would forget had to smile. I would never be able to have a smile again. I just wouldn't.
01:40:08
Especially not hours after it happened when we don't know what's going on with them.
01:40:11
>> He also just like looks like he's acting insane obviously, but he looks put together. He does not look disheveled.
01:40:18
He doesn't look like he's been crying. He's not crying. >> Yep. When he says, "If they're safe now,
01:40:24
they're going to come back." He knows they aren't. So, he's not That's a way of him not lying. He's saying, "If
01:40:30
they're safe, then they're going to come back." >> But they're not. >> But they're not
01:40:33
>> because he killed them. >> So, I don't have to lie here. So, this is comforting. And he looks comforted.
01:40:38
He's like >> like very smug. >> Yeah. Like smirk. >> Like he almost got away with something
01:40:42
there. And he says it a couple of times. And as the interview goes and he talks about the empty house and how he hates
01:40:48
it, he smiles more and more. That empty house made him so happy. >> Yeah. >> When the interviewer says he's gonna ask
01:40:55
some tough questions, he purses his lips. And according to Dr. G, that's to literally hold things in or it's because
01:41:02
he knows he's got to keep his mouth shut. >> Mhm. >> It's a response that we have when we
01:41:07
know we have to keep quiet about something. So, it's like literally physically keep it in.
01:41:12
>> And he also had one thing he misses about them is what he said. He >> was nuts. He was like, "Yeah, I just,
01:41:18
you know, I miss and it's what he misses about them since they've been gone is telling them they can't have a treat if
01:41:25
they don't eat finish their dinner. >> That's that's the memory you chose of all the memories that you've created
01:41:31
over the three and four years that they've been." >> One memory you could come up with was I
01:41:35
miss telling them they can't have dessert >> and them snuggling on their own couch
01:41:39
watching TV >> by themselves watching TV. >> Not even like being snuggled up with
01:41:43
them on our couch watching TV together. Literally my first thought as like I'm like you don't miss cuddling them. You
01:41:50
don't miss holding them. You don't miss their smell. You don't miss the sound of
01:41:53
their voice. You don't miss tucking them into bed. >> You miss shoving them in front of a TV
01:41:59
on their own designated area >> and not having anything to do with them and just putting on bubble guppies
01:42:04
>> and telling them that they won't have a treat if they don't finish dinner. >> Like what that that alone is like what
01:42:09
diabolical. who don't have any other. I'm like, "Yeah, you >> He didn't Google what people would miss
01:42:14
about their children before him." >> Literally. And that's not even a joke. That's like real.
01:42:18
>> No, I'm being dead serious. >> I genuinely think he would have he would have Googled it if he thought he could
01:42:24
get away with it. >> Just like he googled what does it feel like when someone says they love you?
01:42:28
>> The more he talks about no one being in the house the night before, the more he
01:42:32
smiles. Like he's like, I you know, I didn't put on their rain machine and I didn't turn on their monitor and I
01:42:38
didn't put them into bed. The more he says, the more he smiles. And Dr. G pointed out that this is as he lists the
01:42:44
responsibilities associated with having children. He smiles more because he doesn't have them
01:42:50
now. >> So [ __ ] >> And he full out laughs at one point. >> It's not even like a huh, it's a
01:42:58
>> no. He literally says, "I just want them back." And the most genuine smile crosses right into his eyes for the
01:43:05
first time. He has life in his eyes. >> He laughs. He literally goes, "I just want them back."
01:43:13
>> If you pause it too, he is gritting from ear to ear. We were watching it with
01:43:16
Debbie and she was like, "I would think that this is somebody being interviewed about like their child making the honor
01:43:20
roll or like a a sports win like >> being so proud of them." >> What >> it is one of the most chilling and at
01:43:27
one point he's blinking overtime when they ask him if he was searching like if he was out searching
01:43:34
>> which he would be doing. He starts saying, "No, the police told me I shouldn't because I wouldn't even know
01:43:38
what I was looking for." And he starts blinking and it's he wasn't doing this before
01:43:42
>> cuz they didn't say that. >> And he starts blinking like crazy. And then the cameraman does the [ __ ]
01:43:48
Lorts work and zooms right in on his face as he is blinking like a crazy person.
01:43:53
>> And he continues to blink as they ask about like, "Did the neighbors go? Did they go door to door? Like what
01:43:58
happened?" He keeps blinking while he's saying no and blah blah blah. Like he just starts losing it. like he's losing
01:44:04
it. And the and he's trying to to act like he's crying, but there is absolutely no tears.
01:44:10
>> There's no moisture. >> And and he only tries that once. He tries to pretend like as he's saying
01:44:15
that, I think it's during like the I didn't turn on the rain machine and blah blah blah. He tries to act like make his
01:44:21
voice sound like it's about to cry, but then he starts smiling. So, he real I think he just abandons that. And I
01:44:27
remember seeing this interview on the news in 2018 standing in my living room and I looked right at John and I said,
01:44:35
"He did it." >> Yeah. >> And I remember John had just walked in the room. He hadn't seen the interview
01:44:40
and I was like, "This guy did it." And he was like, "What is this?" And I told him what it was. And he was like,
01:44:44
"That's horrific." Like, "What do you mean that he killed his wife pregnant wife and his two babies? Like what?" And
01:44:51
I was like, "He did it?" Like I remember vividly. I sent it to you. I was literally like, "This guy killed his
01:44:57
entire family." I It was >> the most obvious interview you have ever seen, >> right? Cuz I'm sure probably once you
01:45:04
showed John the full thing, he was like, "Oh, yeah." >> Oh. Showing it to him the other I showed
01:45:07
it to him last night cuz I was like, "This is the interview I was talking about." And he was like, "Oh, fuck."
01:45:11
Like he was just like, "What the fuck?" >> And yeah, so that interview happened the
01:45:15
very next day. And I so glad he did that interview. And he had actually said to Sandy, Shannan's mom, there's an
01:45:24
interview with her where she says she had actually advised him not to do any interviews because she said, "You're the
01:45:30
last person who saw them. I just don't think you should give any interviews right now. I think you should be talking
01:45:35
to investigators and that's it." >> Which wild that like >> like that shows who she is that even she
01:45:41
was trying to like help him out there. >> Yeah. because and um he obviously didn't
01:45:46
listen. And she said about that particular interview, she said, "I thank God he didn't listen to me."
01:45:51
>> Every single day, >> every single she said, "I thank God >> that might make me listen to God." She
01:45:56
was like, "That that was perfect." Like, "Thank you for doing that." >> Yep. >> And so that's how his that's how her mom
01:46:05
was handling it. And then his mom in the interview that came out later with her said that at this point his mom believed
01:46:11
that Shan Shannan had just take taken the girls and left. She didn't think that they were actually missing. Um we
01:46:19
are going to get into what happens next which it happens pretty quick thanks to everybody being
01:46:24
so fast and everybody pressing on him, everyone not giving him a second to formulate a coherent story or cover
01:46:31
story. It's honestly when you see because his co-workers started to uh turning and basically being like people
01:46:39
around him were being like, "Oh, I think he was having an affair by the way." And
01:46:42
like, "Hey, you should know this and hey, you should know that." Meanwhile, her people like her crew were all like
01:46:49
rallying to find her, rallying to get everything done. Like the difference in the people that he had versus the people
01:46:57
she did because it shows you who they were. >> He didn't have a lot of friends. >> Yeah, he didn't.
01:47:01
>> She did. He didn't. And the people that were around him, a lot of them were like, "Uh, no thank you."
01:47:06
>> Yeah. >> So, what we are going to do is part two will be going right into when he is
01:47:11
taken in and has to take a polygraph and that is when everything unravels and when the real story comes out
01:47:17
>> and we will talk about that and then we will get into the paranormal aspects,
01:47:20
some of the weird aspects of the end of this case. >> Um, so stay tuned for that.
01:47:26
>> All right, brothers. Oh, let me get a fun fact. >> A really fun fact. I have to get the
01:47:31
bonus fact >> cuz this is destroying my psyche. >> Nutmeg is technically a hallucinagen.
01:47:38
>> I didn't know that. >> I didn't know that either. This is from Cosmopolitan. It says, "The spice
01:47:41
contains mistressin, a natural compound that has mindaltering effects if ingested in large doses."
01:47:48
>> Damn. >> So, it's a good thing that when we were all doing the cinnamon challenge, we
01:47:52
didn't do the nutmeg challenge. >> Holy [ __ ] I did not do the cinnamon challenge.
01:47:55
>> I didn't do it willingly. >> You didn't do it willingly? >> No. My friend What does that mean? I
01:47:59
didn't know that you couldn't swallow cinnamon. Why would I know that? >> Yeah. >> I was like 14.
01:48:03
>> I was going to say you were young. >> I was young. So I tried and I choked and
01:48:07
almost died and then >> Yeah, that can literally kill you. >> Yeah, it almost killed me in
01:48:11
>> Don't do those stupid [ __ ] challenges everybody because most of them can kill
01:48:14
you. Everyone's just lucky that they didn't die. >> Exactly. >> People did die, I think, with that one
01:48:18
>> of the cinnamon challenge. >> Yeah, I think that actually like hurt people. >> Okay, that's not a fun fact. But the
01:48:22
fact that nutmeg is a hallucinagen is fun fact or can be a hallucinagen. >> I'll take that one as the fun. I put
01:48:27
nutmeg in a lot of stuff, especially in the fall. >> Oh, in the fall. >> I better be careful.
01:48:31
>> I'm tripping in here. >> Maybe that's why we're all tripping. We love the fall so much.
01:48:36
>> Fall so much. >> [ __ ] Everyone's like, "Woo!" >> Yeah, I like that. Period.
01:48:42
>> All right. >> Hell yeah. >> Well, we love you guys. We hope you keep listening
01:48:45
>> and we hope you keep it weird. You better not have to have me tell you not to keep it as weird as Chris
01:48:52
[ __ ] stupid ass Cars Watts. >> But I'm telling you, don't keep it that weird. Go look at the discovery
01:48:58
documents. They're fascinating and horrifying. >> Keep it that weird. >> Yeah. >> Bye, dolls. Bye.