00:00:06
Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. This is morbid. And we've had a
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we've had a good day. I know. It's been a like a hectic good day. Yeah, it's a creative day. A a very fun day. Yeah. Um
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Yeah, it's been it's been a blast. I figured out a technical issue. She did. I watched her do it. I never figure out
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technical issues and this is this is big for me. She figured The only reason you're hearing our voices right now is
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cuz Ash figured it out. You know when that's ever happened? Not before this. None. None. as as your youngest would
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say, none times. Nun times. They have none. Yeah. So, we're we're feeling good. And
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um Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's anything really exciting happening. Really exciting. Feel like there's so
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many exciting things happening. There are that we can't talk about. I know, but we will. We're not being one of
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those people like we can't talk about it. We just have so many things happening and we just can't tell you.
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But you will absolutely find out these things. What was fun the other night going to Ronnie and Ben's uh live show.
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That was so much fun. And by the time you hear this, that will have been approximately 32 months ago. But it was
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just know we had a great time. We did. We had a great time. Ronnie and Ben from Watch What Crains came to Boston for a
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show. I laughed so hard during that show that my jaw hurt. Oh my god. If you love
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reality television, specifically Bravo, and you're not listening to Watch What Crappins, you gota the Bonnie and Ben,
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for anybody that out there that doesn't know, they recap these shows, but they do it in such a magical way. They like
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do the voices of impersonate all the housewives. Yeah, they impersonate every sing like Summerhouse, Housewives. They
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even do on uh their Patreon, they do White Lotus recaps, which are so much fun. It's very worth it. They're very
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They're hilarious. They put out insane amounts of content and they're just like the loveliest human beings. We love
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them. Yeah, they're great. So, that was a lot of fun. And we got to meet a lot of uh weirdos there. I know. That was so
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fun. So, that was a lot of fun. If we ran into you, uh it was lovely and we were very happy to run into you. Yeah,
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we met a lot of Massachusetts girlies. Yeah, we met a lot of Boston girlies around the town. It was town sisters, if
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you will. It was fun. We loved it. Um Yeah. And it made us really want to like we were like, "Ooh, looks like fun at
00:02:46
the Wilb." We might have texted our touring manager. We might have. Not for a tour. Not for a tour. Let's be clear.
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We have a touring manager even though we don't tour. He's He's often sad. He is often sad. In
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fact, he didn't believe us that we wanted We were like, "What if we did like one show on like this date?" And he
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was like, "I don't believe you." He was like, "Yeah, sure." He's like, "I'll look into dates, but I don't believe
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you." So, you know what? Maybe that's in the future. Byebye. The future is bright, everybody. Oh, I was trying to
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wear shades. It's so bright. I was about to go future. And then I didn't know why. And
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it's that it's the Sabrina. It's super random. Something. Yeah. Sabrina the Teenage Witch's intro gets
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wild. Future. Is it saying f? Is it? Probably not. Everybody knows I sing the wrong lyrics. Is it not though? No, cuz
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now you got me in my head. Hold on. I'm going to Google it. That one I think is future. No, it's saying it's not.
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[Music] It's not future. It doesn't even sound like that at all. Do you know how many
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times this happened to me in my lifetime? It happens so guys. It doesn't say future. No, it's a secret. Secrets.
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I knew it. I was like, it future. I know it's not. But then all I had was future
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in my head, so I couldn't No, what it is is that I'm so compelling. You are. You're very compelling. You compelled
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future into my head. Wow. Yeah. Now I feel like I'm singing that for like another purpose that like future. Maybe
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you are. I don't know. You just connected it to the wrong nostalgia bomb. I don't know. Let me know in the
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comments. Uh but either way, the main part of that was the future is bright. Yeah, I was wondering lots of fun plans
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for the future. How we even got there? Uh the near future. So So let's let's get into it. I'm ready for part two.
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Let's get into part two of Robert Durst because this guy sucks. Yeah. Um that's accurate. Yeah, he sucks a lot. So I
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want to rewatch the Jinx, though. You should. It has an amazing theme song. I know. We talked about that last time.
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Fresh blood by the uh I think that theme song was actually in Yellow Jackets the
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last episode I watched and I said I love this song. Yeah, that song goes [ __ ] hard. It goes hard. And the actual
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documentary is wild. Sorry, I'm already getting us off course, but like that's my role in life. Um I am re-watching The
00:05:13
Staircase right now. Oh yeah, I remember that one. Which I actually never finished. Um I like started it a long
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long long time ago. That's a crazy one. It's interesting. Yeah, it's on Netflix right now. I don't I don't think I
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watched the whole thing. It's long. I think it's like 13 episodes or something and it's a very differently done
00:05:29
documentary. Like you're seeing step by step. Yeah, you're seeing a lot. So, I watched like the first four or five
00:05:35
episodes last weekend. Um I want to finish that one. Like I'm I'm into it and I don't know what happens in that
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case. So maybe maybe afterwards I'll cover it. Yeah, it's definitely a good one to cover. I would say for sure. Um
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anyway, when we last left you guys with part one, um Robert Durst's wife Kathy has disappeared. Yeah. And he's not
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being normal about it. He doesn't seem like he like after a few months he kind of like retreated out of the spotlight.
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He wouldn't give another interview. And he also stopped returning um the detectives calls which definitely made
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the detective suspicious for sure. Yeah. Usually when you want to find your wife,
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you you return all the police's phone calls. Yeah. And we have like the certain witnesses were now coming back
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and saying, "Actually, I don't know if I saw her when I said I thought I saw her
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cuz I saw her from the back." So, it's like a lady with brown hair from behind. Things are crumbling a little bit. Yeah.
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So, while Robert Durst seemed pretty uninterested in trying to find his wife, which in and of itself is very
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concerning, Kathy's friends um Gilbert No, Jimmy and Eleanor Schwank had gone into way higher gear. He's retreating
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back. They're going into higher gear trying to find Kathy cuz this is their friend. So Nimmy and Schwank more than
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anyone else knew the extent of the abuse that was happening in this relationship
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um at Robert's hands. Um and they felt they knew the fear that Kathy had felt a lot. Yeah. And neither of them had
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trusted Robert Durst's timeline of events or explanation of what happened. They just both were like no doesn't add
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up. which when your friends are already thinking that your husband is the reason
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you're missing, there was a problem. Yeah. Like there was a problem and that we should take these people seriously.
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So the problem was though, they couldn't find any actual like solid evidence to prove he was lying or that he had
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anything to do with the disappearance. It was just kind of like we know what is happening and we think this is
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suspicious. In that way, they were like detective struck. All of them were hitting dead ends. Uh, at the same time,
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Robert had dropped off the map completely. At this point, he stopped going to work, stopped returning phone
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calls, and stopped talking to friends. What the [ __ ] Where'd he go? Apparently, his friend Doug Oliver said
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he retreated into himself, and any messages he had for the outside world were conveyed only through his closest
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friend, Susan Bur. Hm. Durst finally returned to work the following year and continued making Yeah. the next year and
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continued, this is when he continued making like major real estate deals. So, he just like jumped right back in uh all
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around the city and they were both on behalf of the Durst organization and himself as an individual. Oh, wow. Okay.
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So, Detective Struck and the NYPD, uh, they continued following any new leads on Cathy's case, but again, they were
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getting few and far between, and soon the case just went cold. Yeah. Now, in the years that followed Kathy's
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disappearance, because it's so sad, she just disappeared. Uh, Robert Durst settled into, you know, being a single
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guy, a wealthy Manhattan real estate developer. Really tough role to fall back into, I suppose. So hard, I bet. Uh
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but behind the scenes things were anything but good. Robert's lack of enthusiasm for the business cuz remember
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he never really wanted to enter that business. Yeah. He wanted like a house. He wanted to like open a shop.
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So like he never really wanted to do this but it's just like that was the family business and it paid a lot of
00:09:07
money. Yeah. So he just went with it. Um, so his lack of enthusiasm for the business and his reckless and very
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scandalous personal life led his father to skip over Robert and leave the company to his younger brother Douglas.
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Oh, that's a bad hit. Douglas had shown like a lot of enthusiasm for the business, a lot of passion for this
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world. So, he was the obvious choice. Yeah. Uh, it's very success. Very successive. It is. Uh Douglas and Robert
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had always had a very difficult relationship and Douglas's promotion to the head of the Durst organization only
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made things worse. That's which I can imagine that would be a tense family dinner. Yeah. I feel like it's very like
00:09:50
Connor and Kendall Roy. Yeah. You know, in Succession. Go watch Succession if you haven't watched that yet. You're
00:09:56
missing out on great television. Succession is one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. I can say that
00:10:02
with full confidence. It is in my top three shows of all time. Yeah. And I love Roman more than life. Yeah. It's
00:10:07
the characters are and Shiv. So good. Yeah. But you hate them all, too. You hate them, but they're wonderful to be
00:10:13
clear. Uh yeah, they're the worst. But but but by the end of the 1980s, Robert stopped going to work at the Durst
00:10:20
organization and cut off communication with his family again. Again. Okay. Not long after, he stopped communicating
00:10:27
again with his friends altogether. Okay. One friend said he separated from everyone in New York. It was a loss of
00:10:33
face in his mind. So him losing that was like a big reputation blow, ego blow. Um, but it's like everybody knew that
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you didn't give a [ __ ] about it anyway. Yeah, that's the thing. Work a little harder. It hard work, my friends. But so
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this is the thing. It's like he Kathy disappears. He retreats. Yeah, he retreats even further. Then he just
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suddenly reappears again, tries to go hard at everything, gets this blow to his eagle, retreats back again. Like he
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can't handle any disruption in the path. Yeah. So, Durst spent most of the 1990s
00:11:04
drifting back and forth between Connecticut, Texas, and Manhattan. Random. In 1995, he showed up at his
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father's hospital, uh, at his bedside when Seymour Durst was dying, but only after his brother and sister agreed to
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leave the hospital so he wouldn't have to see or talk to either of them. When your dad is dying, you got to put your
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petty differences aside. Well, it's like I just like if the differences are though like which like obviously no one
00:11:31
knows what goes on in any one familyship. It's difficult to tell what was happening. If if the if the issue
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the beef is just that you got skipped over for the that's what I mean the business then like you got to put it
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aside. You know what I mean? Like that's just what are you doing? You know like that's petty. That's trivial at a time
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when someone's dying. It is. It's just one of those things. Obviously, there are other scenarios where Well, you just
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you just never know. Like, it's hard to tell, but he also refused to go to the funeral.
00:12:02
Wow. Which is like, wo, that's really shitty. I mean, it's it's gnarly. I mean, there a statement. There are
00:12:08
funerals I might skip. So, yeah. So, I mean, like I can't I again, I didn't live his life in his house. Thank
00:12:15
goodness. So, through all of his, you know, tumult essentially, like he just couldn't get it together. The only
00:12:22
constant in Darth's life has been who? Susan. Susan Burman. Susan. However, Burman's life in the 80s and 90s hadn't
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been the easiest. Oh, okay. She had written a few novels and even optioned some of them for films, but they all
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kind of fell through. Oh. Uh, and the novels she did publish didn't sell nearly as well as she had expected them
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to. Oh. Despite the financial disappointments, Burman had purchased a large house in Brentwood, one of
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California's wealthiest neighborhoods. Yeah. At the time, she'd grown really, really paranoid of the world around her.
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Like she was just retreating. Okay. She nailed the windows of her house shut and
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bolted all the doors whenever she was at home. Oh. Which is like really sad. Yeah. That's like straight up
00:13:04
agorophobia. Yeah. By the late 1990s, Burman had moved to a much smaller house in Benedict Canyon, just north of
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Beverly Hills. Again, she hadn't seen much financial success, but she managed to make enough money to get by, selling
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a few novels, producing a series for cable TV. She was doing some things. Uh, by that time, her marriage had fallen
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apart, and she divorced her husband, so she was living alone. She was driving a 1984 car that would occasionally catch
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fire. Oh. You know, and constantly borrowing money from friends, so she was struggling.
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I'm just a little stuck on her car occasionally catching fire. I don't You got to end with that. You can't really
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stuff that in the middle. Yeah. I I really liked putting that in the middle to be honest. I'm sorry for Susan for
00:13:49
everything she was experiencing, but specifically her car. Occasionally catching fire. Yeah. For like just from
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time to time. Every once in a while. You know what? Yeah. She's going through it.
00:14:00
Yeah. She's got a lot going on. The divorce, the move, the the not selling the novels like she was hoping to. She's
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about borrowing money from friends. The car is catching on fire. Like there's a lot that's a lot on your mental health.
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The one thing Susan did have and knew she always would have was Robert Durst, which I don't know if that's a prize.
00:14:19
Yeah, I would say no. In the late 90s, Durst had been difficult to get a hold of and the two hadn't spoken in months.
00:14:25
Okay. So, that must have been tough. Finally, in August 2000, Susan sent a letter to Robert Care of the Durst
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organization asking him to get in touch. She had needed to borrow $7,000 to buy a
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new car because it caught on fire. 1984 one is catching on fire. But more than that, she missed her best friend and
00:14:45
needed some support. She was just like, "I miss you. I just like need somebody who I think cares about me." Yeah. Or at
00:14:50
least did at some point. Months passed and no word came. Oh, that must have really hurt. Yeah. Then in November, a
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check for $25,000 arrived in the mail. That's a little more than she asked for. with a
00:15:04
note that read, "It's not alone. It's a gift and you can always count on me." Uh, I want a friend like that. Which,
00:15:13
like, damn. Not in this scenario, but damn. Yeah. $25,000. It's not a loan, it's a gift.
00:15:21
Yeah. It was literally a miracle for her. Like, this was of course it was. It It allowed her to pay off some debt, buy
00:15:27
a car. Like, she was really It allowed her to climb out of a little bit of the hole she was in. Uh, but less than 2
00:15:33
weeks later, Susan Berman was dead. Oh, yeah. [ __ ] On December 24th, Burman's next door neighbors noticed that the
00:15:42
back door to her house had been slightly open for some time and one of her dogs had gotten loose. Given how paranoid
00:15:50
Susan had been about safety, the situation seemed very unusual to this couple. So, they called the police.
00:15:56
Yeah. When officers arrived at Susan Berman's home, they found Susan inside on the floor lying in a pool of dried
00:16:03
blood. A single bullet hole to the back of her head. Oh jeez. To investigators, the murder appeared to be a professional
00:16:10
execution. Yeah. Like one might expect to see out of like a mafia hit essentially. And given Susan's family
00:16:17
background, cuz remember remember where Susan comes from from part one. Yes. They a mob hit wouldn't have been
00:16:24
completely out of the question. And she just came into this like money here. Wow. Also, there didn't appear to be any
00:16:30
sign of struggle in the house and Burman's purse was lying in plain view with nothing missing. Holy [ __ ] So, it
00:16:36
wasn't like it was a robbery, right? So, it's so funny. I had like I I've seen this documentary, but I forgot a lot of
00:16:42
this. It's been a while since that came out. Yeah. I mean, I think I saw that like 10 years ago. Yeah. The idea that
00:16:47
Susan Burman had been killed by a member of an organized crime family may not have been entirely unrealistic, but it
00:16:54
also wasn't very likely. Yeah. Because like like mob hits are happening like all over the Well, and a lot of times
00:17:00
like women aren't involved. Yeah. So after all, you know, by 2000, the US government had almost completely
00:17:07
eradicated the original crime families. And it seemed kind of impossible that her murder could have anything to do
00:17:12
with her father's criminal activity. Yeah. cuz he had died decades earlier. So, it's not like he was like out and
00:17:18
about doing some shady [ __ ] Yeah. But as investigators soon learned, Susan's father wasn't the only connection she
00:17:25
had to criminal activity. Okay. In fact, nearly 20 years earlier, the wife of Susan's best friend, Robert Durst, had
00:17:33
gone missing and he had been the prime suspect in her disappearance. This is true. Connection. There it is. So based
00:17:40
on the crime scene, investigators theorized that Burman had known her attacker. Oh, there was no sign of
00:17:47
struggle, no sign of forced entry. And remember, she's for she's like Fort Knox, like she's locked in there. She
00:17:54
would have let somebody in there that she trust. She had to let somebody in if somebody came in. And she'd obviously
00:18:00
turned her back on them long enough for the killer to aim and fire the gun. Something she wasn't going to do for
00:18:06
most people, right? There was also the unusual letter Beverly Hills police received a few days after Burman's body
00:18:12
was found. It was dated December 23rd, the day before she was discovered. And the letter was addressed to the Beverly
00:18:19
Hills police. It was also spelled wrong. It had an extra e in Beverly, like L E Y. Yep. And contained an anonymous note
00:18:26
with Burman's address and the word cadaavver. Oh, yeah. That's chilling. Yeah. And just like that,
00:18:35
not long after the note was received, someone pointed out that the misspelling of the word Beverly on um on the
00:18:41
envelope was a typo that Durst was known to commonly make. He commonly spelled Beverly wrong this way. However, when he
00:18:50
was confronted with the letter, he of course vehemently denied having written or sent it. But that is a strange
00:18:55
coincidence that he just happens to misspell this word. Yeah, that's real specific. Yeah, it's worth noting that
00:19:02
this was Durst's position on the matter for nearly 20 years. Damn. Until 2019 when his legal team acknowledged that
00:19:10
Durst had in fact sent the letter. But that quote didn't change the fact that Bob Durst did not kill Susan B. Oh, so
00:19:17
he just sent the letter and knew that there was a dead body in her home. That says cadaavver. Like come on. What? He
00:19:23
just sent that. Sometimes with [ __ ] like that, I'm like like I know you got to
00:19:28
you got to do what you got to do, but like are you guys [ __ ] for real right now? Really arguing that like I mean
00:19:33
like you got to do it. I guess I don't know how judges just don't say are you [ __ ] for real right now? Like I would
00:19:38
like I be so for real right now. Like be so [ __ ] for real. Let's be straight up here. Like come on. So when friends
00:19:45
learned of Burman's death, some thought of her father and his connection to the mob because for much of her young life,
00:19:51
Susan had known very little about her father's business. And it was only when she was an adult and he was long dead
00:19:57
that she kind of started learning about his brutal murderous past. Oh, so maybe people are thinking like she's diving in
00:20:04
this. She's going too close. Yeah. Yeah. Others though thought of Robert Durst. Yeah, I could see why. Burman's friend
00:20:11
Christian Clark said, "It has bothered me and haunted me virtually every day for 20 years." Oh, I can't imagine that.
00:20:17
Yeah. When Clark learned of Morris Black's death and Durst's arrest, she immediately thought of Susan and was
00:20:23
more convinced than ever that he was involved. Absolutely. It turned out that Christian Clark wasn't the only one who
00:20:29
suspected Durst could have been responsible for Susan Burman's murder. Detectives in California also found his
00:20:35
connection to the victim to be very suspicious. Mhm. It turned out that just weeks before she was discovered,
00:20:41
investigators in New York had been trying to get in touch with Susan Berman to discuss the recently reopened case in
00:20:48
the disappearance of Kathy Durst. Oh [ __ ] Isn't that strange? Yep. That they were going to be contacting her and now
00:20:56
she's murdered. Oh man. And like that's your best friend. That's your best friend. Like obviously you don't have
00:21:03
feelings clearly. Clearly, but like damn. [ __ ] Yeah. Gilbert and Jimmy told a reporter, "I find it hard to believe
00:21:11
there's not a connection between the Durst and Burman cases." Uh, yet as far as the LAPD was concerned, the LAPD,
00:21:19
they were unwilling to publicly declare Robert Durst a suspect. Strange stance. At least until they had more information
00:21:26
and evidence connecting him to the crime. In the meantime, Robert was free to move about the country, which is when
00:21:32
he chose to relocate to Galveastston, Texas, where he met Morris Black. Uhhuh. while he was in custody for the murder
00:21:39
of Morris Black. So the future of it. Yeah. So we so we had a little future trip. Now he's got off to Texas. That's
00:21:45
when the Morris Black bit happened. That's also when he was impersonating someone else. Yes. Which tells you like
00:21:50
a little bit about the Headspace season. While he was in custody for the murder of Morris Black, Robert Durst said
00:21:56
nothing to police and was freed on $250,000 bond pending arraignment which was scheduled for the following week on
00:22:04
October 16th. It's like obviously that's a high number, but also he's a rich person. Exactly. He can do that in a
00:22:09
second. That's not great. Unfortunately for investigators, October 16th arrived and Robert Durst was nowhere to be
00:22:16
found. Yeah. Are you guys shocked? Yeah. When he failed to show up for his hearing, he was labeled a fugitive and
00:22:21
law enforcement agents were dispatched from Texas to hunt him down. Yeah. At the same time, the judge revoked Durst
00:22:27
Bale and tripled it to 750,000. Even I feel like if you're being held in question of a murder like that like that
00:22:36
that was a brutal murder. Morris Black was dismembered. Yeah. It should be a mill or it should just beine none. No,
00:22:43
but no option. Like obviously I don't know how all of that like the intricacies of that but still doesn't
00:22:48
feel right. No. Now when asked about Durst fleeing Texas, authorities speculated that Robert Durst knew his
00:22:54
chances with a jury were not going to be very good. Yeah, probably not. Uh, Lieutenant Mike Putnell said, "As much
00:23:00
as there is about this case, we still do not know. The one thing we're really confident in in is the strength of the
00:23:06
evidence." Yeah. While Durst's flight from Galveastston wasn't necessarily evidence of his guilt, the evidence
00:23:12
against him definitely didn't look good. Uh-uh. And when they continued looking into his background, things only got
00:23:18
stranger. It turned out that the woman who paid Durst bond a few weeks earlier, Deborah Lee Char uh Sheratin, wasn't
00:23:26
just an acquaintance, but his wife, who he'd married a few weeks before moving to Galveastston. The [ __ ] For 45 days,
00:23:35
investigators fielded calls with tips about potential nurse sightings. So, he's married now, by the way. He's the
00:23:40
wife has now paid his bond, but she didn't live in the apartment where he lived. It's It's so messy. There were
00:23:47
rumors about his having fled to Mexico or other parts of Texas and reports of sightings up and down the east coast
00:23:53
from New Orleans to New York. A lead detective Cody Kazales told reporters with his money he could be anywhere.
00:24:00
Yeah. If investigators were expecting to find Robert Durst in some faroff country
00:24:04
or tropical island somewhere, they were surely shocked when Durst was finally arrested on November 30th after being
00:24:11
caught stealing a sandwich from a Wegman's grocery store in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. That is one detail of this
00:24:18
story that I will never forget. That [ __ ] has endless amounts of cash and steals a Sammy. He stole a goddamn
00:24:27
sandwich. Stole you. You stole it from a WGES. What's wrong with you? Don't be stealing from WG. Don't you steal from a
00:24:33
WG? It's a great family. I think we love Wegman. I [ __ ] so heavy with Wegman. Wegman's for life. And the fact that you
00:24:40
are a [ __ ] fugitive on the run with endless cash and you choose to commit the stupidest crime. Dumb. Or just make
00:24:48
your own goddamn sandwich. You don't even have to buy one. A man like that doesn't make his own sandwich. God damn.
00:24:54
More bizarre than the shoplifting itself was the fact that when he was taken into
00:24:59
custody, Durst had several hundred dollars in cash on him and could have paid for that sandwich like or anything
00:25:07
else he wanted in that store for that. He probably could have paid for the store. Also, what's the like I
00:25:12
understand that like like uh people who steal get some kind of thrill. The [ __ ]
00:25:16
kind of thrill do you get from stealing a sandwich? It's going to be gone in a minute. That thrill is not worth You're
00:25:21
a fugitive, babe. You're I'm glad that you made that choice. That's not good. But still, like a sandwich that you're
00:25:28
just going to eat. Yeah. It's like what what do you get out of that? What's the thrill there? Now, when asked about
00:25:33
Durst's demeanor following his arrest, store manager Kevin Strickles described Durst as nervous from the standpoint
00:25:40
that he got caught stealing. When he was asked why he'd risk shoplifting at a time like that, cuz like everybody
00:25:46
wanted to know what I want to know. Yeah. Durst replied, "I don't know why I did it. I guess I'm just an [ __ ]
00:25:54
self-aware. Self-aware, period. The most valid statement to say, "I guess I'm just an asshole." He is just an [ __ ]
00:26:03
I mean, he's fully upfront about it. Just like, "Yeah, I guess I just suck." I guess I'm just But it's also kind of
00:26:09
annoying cuz it's like like self Oh, it's totally for me and like not flatulating. What is it? I always say
00:26:15
self flag say farting. It's flagagillating. It's so self flagagillating. Well, it's very uh like
00:26:22
he it's very like I guess I'm just an [ __ ] and you all you all have to deal with it. Like the world has to accept
00:26:28
that I'm an [ __ ] Yeah, I shouldn't work on that or anything. Yeah, I shouldn't stop farting all over myself.
00:26:33
Stop farting all over yourself. So, a few months Robert Robert A few months later, investigators released the
00:26:40
details of the manhunt for Robert Durst, which included tracking the millionaire
00:26:44
across several states. According to this those closest to the case, during his six weeks on the run, he quote used at
00:26:51
least six aliases, many of them names drawn from his past, like those of former classmates or a handyman he
00:27:00
employed. So, very strange. I couldn't keep track of all that. That's what I don't understand about like
00:27:05
pathological. Absolutely not. I can't lie like that. No, I I just get too confused. I'd be overwhelmed. He also
00:27:12
posed as a woman at least twice and he would dress as a woman and wore a wig to really like sell it. I mean, he was
00:27:19
doing that for like years in that apartment. Yep. During the manhunt, Mike Putnell told reporters, "We really don't
00:27:25
have any idea where he was where he was. He was he wasn't accessing the bank accounts or using the credit cards we
00:27:31
know of. He took elaborate measures to avoid capture, but then he makes mistakes like stealing a hogy. Not a
00:27:38
hogy. Not a hogy. We don't have those here. We call them subs. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah. I never really knew
00:27:44
what a hogy was. Yeah. Hogi is not over here. Oh, what? It's a sub. That's a sub. Dur's wife. Oh, yeah. That everyone
00:27:53
remember he's married. Uh, she attempted to withdraw a cool $1.8 million from the
00:28:00
bank before investigators froze the account. I mean, she probably knew that [ __ ] was coming. A quick yoink. You You
00:28:06
need some spending money if they're going to freeze your assets. a quick actual $1.8 million. Take two. Yeah. Uh,
00:28:14
it's not great. So, the investigators froze the account. Durst had also rented a car using Morris Black's
00:28:20
identification. Oh, but otherwise, his trip was a series of motel and truck stops as he made his way from Texas to
00:28:26
the Northeast. But I'd call that a smoking gun, I would say. So in September 2003, Robert Durst finally
00:28:33
went on trial for the murder of Morris Black after several failed attempts by his lawyer to get the trial delayed even
00:28:39
further so they could come up with a [ __ ] reason. Try to come up with something. Several times, Dur Defense
00:28:44
attorney Chip Lewis argued that investigators had violated his client's rights when they went
00:28:52
through the trash cans outside the apartment building in Galveastston where much of the evidence linking Durst to
00:28:57
the murder was found. Isn't that like once your trash is outside? It's on the street, man. It's done. What are you
00:29:02
talking about? Uh Lewis argued the police officer tried to gain what he could not do by legal means. He used the
00:29:08
landlord as a pawn. The judge disagreed, noting that the trash cans were the property of the city, not Durst.
00:29:14
Exactly. And the full scope of the evidence was admitted. Luckily, I always thought trash was fair game. Yeah.
00:29:19
They're if they're Those trash cans belong to the city, man. Yeah. You're just renting them. described by the
00:29:24
press as a quote eccentric and this is the by the press. This is not me. He was described as a eccentric crossdressing
00:29:33
New York real estate air. Woof. Yeah, that's the press. That is not Wolf press. Yeah, wolf press indeed. Also,
00:29:42
stop. Describe him as a murderer. Yeah, he's a murderer. Exactly. Robert Durst's
00:29:47
trial drew considerable attention from news outlets around this country. In his opening statement, the prosecutor, Curt
00:29:54
Cyrunk, told the jury the case was a straightforward murder. He said, "This was no killing in self-defense. There
00:30:01
was no justified action in killing Morris Black. It was nothing but a cold-blooded murder. All done without
00:30:06
hesitation." Yeah. The prosecutor theorized that Durst, who was clearly hiding out in Texas, had killed Black in
00:30:13
order to assume his identity. Oh [ __ ] Which makes a lot of sense. Yeah. He's been on the run basically from
00:30:19
everybody. Mhm. The defense, on the other hand, argued that Black's death was the result of an accidental shooting
00:30:24
that occurred when, in self-defense, Robert Durst grappled with Black over the gun. Defense attorney Dick uh Darren
00:30:32
said, "How he died will not be an issue. Morris Black died as a result of a life
00:30:37
and death struggle over a gun that Morris Black had threatened Bob Durst with." So, how do you explain the
00:30:43
dismemberment? That's what I'm wondering. The defense acknowledged that there were sensational and um like you
00:30:49
just stated grotesque aspects to the case, but reminded the jury that while Durst may have been involved, the
00:30:55
prosecution had no evidence to support the claim that he had intentionally murdered Morris Black. Okay. But he
00:31:02
definitely very intentionally dismembered his body with a pairing knife. And they're not they're not
00:31:06
arguing that. They're saying it was self-defense and he had to, you know, as Yeah, we we cross certain lines and we
00:31:12
get to different places. As for Durst's behavior after Black's death, like you are discussing, Darren said Durst was
00:31:19
susceptible to panic and has a personality that quote runs from trouble. I would say that's like a little bit
00:31:25
different than like running from trouble. They're not arguing that he did that. They're just like, well, he got
00:31:29
upset. Yeah. You know, he kind of freaked out, panicked. He panics. He has a panic thing. [ __ ] I panic all the
00:31:37
time. I'm like, [ __ ] we're all panicking. No. Like, we can't be saying that that's okay. This entire country is
00:31:42
in a state of panic. You can't be telling me that that's okay after you panic. That's not the response. All of
00:31:47
this, they argued, was the result of Durst's fears that Black was a violent man and had targeted Durst in the weeks
00:31:53
before his death. Okay. Going into the trial, investigators in the prosecutor's office felt pretty confident that they
00:32:00
had everything they needed to secure an easy conviction for murder. Yeah. After all, Durst didn't just shoot Morris
00:32:05
Black to death. He also skillfully dismembered and disposed of his body. Uhhuh. Then when he was arrested for the
00:32:11
crime, he skipped bail and fled the state while using Morris Black's identification. Still, they couldn't get
00:32:17
around the fact that the defense was right. The only thing they didn't have was direct evidence to prove that the
00:32:22
shooting was intentional. Damn. When he was cross-examined by the defense, Cody Kazales was asked directly whether they
00:32:29
had anything to disprove Durst's claim of self-defense, and the detective simply answered, "No, sir." Cuz they
00:32:35
didn't. Yeah. On November 5th, 2003, the jury entered the deliberation phase, which dragged into the following day and
00:32:43
then into the next day. On the third day of the deliberation, the jury requested
00:32:47
the court reporter read back Dur's statement about the fight over the gun, which is like not great. Like you're
00:32:54
just like, "Oh, I asked him for that." Yeah. Finally, after nearly a full week of deliberations, the jury emerged and
00:33:00
they returned an acquitting they didn't feel the prosecution had offered enough evidence
00:33:07
to prove the shooting had been intentional and thus left room for our favorite thing, reasonable doubt. I
00:33:14
think I would struggle so much on a jury. This would be a hard one. I would struggle because you know, but you are
00:33:22
also being told you need to look at the evidence. Did they prove do you have any
00:33:28
reasonable doubt that this is not an intentional Yeah. And it's like so the verdict came as a shock to the
00:33:34
prosecution who despite lacking irrefutable evidence of an intentional shooting felt the circumstantial
00:33:42
evidence had been enough to secure a conviction which I get why they felt that. I agree. Yeah. When asked whether
00:33:47
he felt Durst was still a threat to the community, Kurt Cystrunk told reporters,
00:33:51
"Mr. Dur is not going to be invited into my house." tells you everything. The acquitt may
00:33:57
have resolved the question of murder, but Durst was still on the hook for two counts of bail jumping and one count of
00:34:02
tampering with evidence, the latter for the dismemberment of Black's body. Yeah.
00:34:06
In December 2004, Durst accepted an offer from the DA's office in which he would plead guilty to both in exchange
00:34:14
for a 5-year sentence. That's two years credit for time serve. Dismembering an entire man. Yeah, that's so [ __ ] up.
00:34:23
Robert Durst was parrolled on July 15th, 2005 with the understanding that he would remain in the area and avoid
00:34:30
certain locations like the apartment building where Morrisbach's death had occurred. However, less than 2 weeks
00:34:36
after being parrolled, Durst visited the apartment building. The [ __ ] Thus violating his parole. Why the [ __ ] did
00:34:43
he have to go back there? Yeah, just to be a dick. And as a result, [ __ ] Well, yeah. And as a result, he was sent
00:34:48
back to jail to finish out his sentence and was released from prison prison in a
00:34:52
year in March 2006. What the [ __ ] He was out free. Why would you go back? And they were like, don't go to the place
00:34:58
where you murdered that guy that you have no business going to and that you literally have no reason to go back to.
00:35:03
And he was like, got it. And at that point, it's like, are is that even your apartment anymore? No. Right. It's not.
00:35:08
He has no reason to go back there. Literally. He's so like stupid. Stupid. And like uh indeed what is the uh he's
00:35:16
self-sabotaging and he's reckless. He's he's all of these things. He's so And he's an [ __ ] And he's an [ __ ]
00:35:22
It's like it's like he has to like he's compulsive. Compulsive. Yeah, that's the
00:35:26
word. Thank you, Jesus. So for months before, during and after the trial, the news about Robert Durst and the murder
00:35:32
of Morris Black spread around the country. And those reports almost always referenced the disappearance of Kathy
00:35:38
Durst and the recent murder of Susan Berman. Mhm. And given how sensational those stories were and Durst life in
00:35:45
general was pretty sensational and wild, I'd say so. It was only a matter of time
00:35:49
before the Robert Durst story became the subject of a film. Now, in 2008, documentarians and screenwriters Marcus
00:35:56
Marcus Hinchi and Mark Smurling began working on a screenplay based loosely on Dur's earlier years and Cathy's
00:36:03
disappearance. A few years earlier, Smurling and his filmmaking partner Andrew Jerki had scored a big indie hit
00:36:10
with Capturing the Freriedman's. It was a documentary about a child's sex abuse scandal. Oh, in Great Neck, New York,
00:36:17
and how the trial affected the family of the perpetrator. Hoping to parlay that success into the world of dramatic
00:36:23
feature films, Hinchi and Smurling wrote a dramatic a dramatization of Cathy's disappearance with Jereki attached to
00:36:30
direct. Mhm. The script was quickly bought by uh the Weinstein Company shutters. And in 2010, the
00:36:39
company released All Good Things, starring Ryan Gosling, who was playing David Marx in the film that was supposed
00:36:45
to be Robert Durst. Okay. And then Kirsten Dunst was playing this that David Marx character's wife, Katie
00:36:52
McCarthy, who's supposed to be Kathy Dur. Kathy. I haven't seen that. Yeah. The title was a reference to the health
00:36:58
food store that Robert opened. Oh, [ __ ] Yeah. in Vermont in the '7s and the store traced the couple's relationship
00:37:04
from their meeting in the early '7s to her disappearance in 1982. Oh, however, the fictional version of the story fills
00:37:12
in the ending where the real account remained unresolved, including the Manhattan DA's reopening of the case
00:37:18
after reading a novel from David Mark's best friend. That's like in that film. Oh, the film stopped short of implying
00:37:24
that the fictional Durst killed his wife, leaving that for the audience to decide. Which is probably the best way
00:37:30
to go about it. Yes. All Good Things received mixed reviews from critics. It did pretty poorly at the box office with
00:37:37
mo most critics noting the film's inspiration offered considerably more drama than the fictional account
00:37:42
actually did. They were like, "The real thing is way more interesting to watch."
00:37:46
That's got to be tough though with legality. Well, you can't and you don't want to be like sensational while
00:37:51
retelling it, you know, like that's a hard one. Yeah, that's a tough line to tow. But there was one viewer who was
00:37:56
particularly impressed with the movie and called Andrew Jerky to tell him as much. According to
00:38:04
Jerem, Robert Durst called the director to share his appreciation of what he believed was an even-handed account of
00:38:10
his life. Christ almighty. Also, Durst, who had famously avoided the press for decades, offered to participate in the
00:38:18
commentary for the DVD release of All Good Things. Throughout the commentary, Durst
00:38:26
can be heard verifying the accuracy of some of the film's more violent scenes. Oh, including one in which he dismembers
00:38:32
the fictional version of Morris Black. He says in the flattest, eeriest tone while watching that, this is more or
00:38:40
less accurate. What the [ __ ] We that the fact that we have this man on audio so many times
00:38:49
basically admitting to everything he did in the most horrific ways. In the process of recording the commentary,
00:38:55
Jerki and Durst spent a lot of hours together talking, getting to know each other. At the time, Durst was still
00:39:01
being investigated by authorities in LA for the murder of Susan Burman and by the Manhattan District um attorney's
00:39:08
office for the disappearance of Kathy. Yep. Who had been declared legally dead by a New York court several years
00:39:13
earlier. Okay. Under the circumstances, it would seem odd that Durst would want to attract any attention or scrutiny,
00:39:20
but that's exactly what he did. In fact, Durst was downright enthusiastic in his
00:39:25
acceptance of Derek's offer to work on a project together about his life and legal troubles. The Jinx. He's in the
00:39:33
middle of this [ __ ] and he was like, "Let's go, girls. Attention." Yeah. The result of their collab was 2015's The
00:39:40
Jinx. The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst. It was a six episode miniseries on HBO and it covered among other things
00:39:48
the disappearance of Kathy Durst, the murder of Susan Berman, the death of Morris Black. Assembled from more than
00:39:54
25 hours of interview footage, The Jinx also tells the story of Durst's troubled
00:39:59
relationship with his own family and includes extensive and mostly unflattering interviews with his brother
00:40:05
Douglas, who offers a counternarrative to that of Durst himself. Uh Jereki said certainly the things he's been accused
00:40:13
of are tabloid worthy, but what's clear about Bob if you spend five minutes with
00:40:17
him is that he's a deeply complicated person who cannot be summarized in a simple way.
00:40:24
Huh. I I guess you could say that. Yeah. When the Jinx premiered in February 2015, it was an immediate hit. I was one
00:40:32
of those viewers. Same. Uh not only because of the sensational story, but also because of Durst being so [ __ ]
00:40:38
bizarre. He's a weird guy. There was never any question as to whether Durst was directly involved in the making of
00:40:44
the series. He was. Yeah. Uh which is why his comments throughout the film are surprising and at times even suspicious
00:40:50
cuz it's almost like he forgets that he's directly absolutely involved. Yeah. In fact, throughout the six episodes,
00:40:57
Durst seems both aware of how his quirks and personality ticks are perceived and
00:41:01
yet completely oblivious to the fact that much of what comes out of his mouth could be interpreted as thinly veiled
00:41:07
admissions of guilt. Like, you're just like, what's going on? Some of them not even at all. Throughout the series,
00:41:14
Robert Durst maintains that he didn't kill his wife or Susan Burman, despite what people think, and Jerky does little
00:41:21
to question or challenge him on it. Mhm. Then the series concludes with what appears to be nothing short of a [ __ ]
00:41:30
bombshell admission. A full-blown confession. I remember watching this on my couch in our apartment. Yep. And John
00:41:38
and I were like, "What the fuck?" I watched it right after you because I'm pretty sure you texted me and you were
00:41:44
like, "You need to watch this." See, this is before we started the podcast and that's the kind of [ __ ] we used to
00:41:50
be like, "Holy shit." I was like, "You got to see this." So, in the sixth episode's final moments, Jereki and
00:41:56
Durst finish an interview during which Durst seem to have trouble uh controlling his burping. Yeah, it's like
00:42:04
a lot. And Durst excuses himself to go to the bathroom. Alone in the bathroom, still miked, seemingly unaware that he
00:42:13
is still miked, uh, and he's still being recorded, Durst begins talking to himself. He was known to do that since
00:42:19
childhood. This was not something new. It's so unsettling, though. Some of what he says, you can't understand. It's
00:42:25
unintelligible. He can very clearly be heard saying, "What the hell did I do? Killed them all." Of course. And that's
00:42:31
where my of course comes from. Of course. Every time Ash says, "Of course, I just think of of course." It's just
00:42:36
the way he says. He says, "What the hell did I do? Kill them." Of course. Of course. This is similar to the
00:42:45
[ __ ] sandwich that he didn't need to go steal. Yeah. in the apartment that he didn't need to go back to. Y Why
00:42:54
the [ __ ] are you saying this out loud to yourself during filming of a [ __ ] documentary? He just can't help himself.
00:43:01
He literally is compulsive. Like he has to do these things. It's insane. It's like he can't fight it. It's the same
00:43:08
kind of He has a pattern of this [ __ ] He does a pology. He has every reason to
00:43:12
not do that thing and that there's no nothing compelling him to do it. Like you do not need to do that. There's just
00:43:19
he has to easy peasy lemon squeezy to not go to a Wegman's and steal that sandwich. Just pay for it. To not go
00:43:25
back to that apartment. Don't say out loud, I killed them all. Of course. And also, how do you defend? I'm glad he
00:43:33
did. Yeah, I'm glad he did. I'm just saying like, whoa. I'm like also like, how do you get a lawyer after that? So,
00:43:41
so this confession shocked all of us. Sure did. In part because just one day before the episode aired, Robert Durst
00:43:48
was arrested in connection with Susan Berman's death. The arrest seemed to confirm what viewers heard on the tape
00:43:54
that Robert Durst killed Kathy Durst and Susan Berman. Yep. However, the timing raised more than a few questions. More
00:44:02
importantly, the interview uh footage for the series had been recorded over a period of years leading up to the
00:44:08
release of the movie uh or the series. In that case, Andrew Jerki and the producers of the Jinx would have known
00:44:15
about the confession and had said nothing to investigators. Oh yeah. There was also
00:44:23
the matter of some evidence that Jerki had been given by Susan Burman's friend, including a letter to Susan from Durst
00:44:31
in which the handwriting appears identical to that of the cadaavver letter sent to the police, right down to
00:44:37
the misspelling of Beverly. Oh, so it got a little messy. I didn't realize that was a was a part of this
00:44:44
all. Yeah. Like this whole thing didn't make just make the team behind the Jinx look bad. It made them look slightly
00:44:50
complicit, which is like not good at all. Yeah. Uh like you can't hold that stuff just to get audience reactions.
00:44:59
Oh. And you would have gotten it either way. That's what it made it look like. So the truth was a little more
00:45:03
complicated to be fair. According to Smurling, Jereki and the producers were seriously conflicted when they received
00:45:10
the evidence. For one thing, their lawyers informed them if they turn the evidence over too soon, its validity
00:45:16
could easily be challenged in court and jeopardize any trial. Okay, so they didn't want to [ __ ] anything up. It was
00:45:22
also the matter of their journalistic integrity, which is a thing. Yes, that is if they went directly to the police,
00:45:27
they would not only be disclosing several sources, they would which is really bad. Yeah. But they would also be
00:45:33
very likely be called to testify in court which would surely affect their reputations as trust trusted
00:45:39
journalists. That's really tough. In the end, humanity did win out. Uh Smurling told a reporter, "We had a moral
00:45:47
obligation and an obligation to the families of the dead to see that justice was done." Okay. In fact, it turned out
00:45:52
that the producers behind the miniseries had been cooperating with investigators
00:45:57
since 2013, 2 years before the Jinx premiered. Okay. Okay. So, it was like a whole It was a
00:46:02
whole thing. At first, I remember it being a thing where everyone was like, "Oh my god, like you held this [ __ ] but
00:46:08
in the end they not really they did what they could do." Yeah. You know, within their parameters. There was also the
00:46:15
matter of the supposed confession, like the whole matter of the confession itself, which it turned out was also a
00:46:21
little more complicated than it appeared. Like many aspects of film making in real life, things weren't
00:46:26
exactly as they appeared to be on screen. Their statement about having killed them all was real, but the audio
00:46:34
uh recording of him captured in the bathroom was actually a lot longer and like a little stranger. The full
00:46:41
recording of Dur smuttering is this. Oh, there it is. You're caught. You're right, of course, but you can't imagine.
00:46:49
They want to talk to him. That's good. I find them very frightening, and I do not
00:46:54
want to talk to them. I don't know. The washer. Well, I don't know what you expected to get, but And then it says
00:47:00
the rest of and you can't hear. Don't know what's in the house. Oh, I want this. Killed them all. Of course. I want
00:47:07
to do something new. There's nothing new about that. What a disaster. He was right. I was wrong. And the burping. I'm
00:47:14
having difficulty with the questions. What the hell did I do? The burping. And the burping. Sorry, I'm a
00:47:24
child. He's a strange fellow. What the [ __ ] And the burping. So to me, that's a man who knows he's
00:47:33
caught, knows what he's done, and he's like, "Fuck." Knows he's pretty much given himself. Like he's like, "Fuck."
00:47:38
To me, that literally translates into [ __ ] That's [ __ ] Period. Yeah. So, the
00:47:44
producers of the Jinx had used some slightly deceptive editing to present an incoherent and, you know, kind of
00:47:50
unintelligible statement as though it were just a very clear-cut confession of murder. I mean, you're making a film.
00:47:57
Well, that's a So, it's like you I I understand. So, when the dust had settled and Jerecki was able to address
00:48:03
viewers and critics concerns and accusations of complicity, things look far less damning than they had
00:48:08
previously appeared. It's still pretty damning. I think he's still pretty damning. But luckily, it didn't look as
00:48:14
damning on the filmmakers. Oh, yeah. That and that's what I mean. Like on Robert Durst. Yeah. That's Robert Durst
00:48:20
had been arrested for Burman's murder. And as it turned out, that arrest wasn't entirely unconnected to his appearance
00:48:25
in the Jinx. Yeah. So, based on the information provided to them by the producers of the Jinx, investigators
00:48:32
were able to get an arrest warrant for Dar's arrest, and he was picked up a few days later at a hotel in New Orleans,
00:48:38
Louisiana. where he'd registered under the name Everett Ward. Huh. Around this time, local authorities had received
00:48:45
complaints about Durst after he was seen confusedly wandering around the hotel lobby and talking to himself. Oh. Turned
00:48:52
out that was only the latest in a series of very strange incidents involving Robert Durst. That checks. A few years
00:48:58
earlier, he was tried and con acquitted of violating restraining orders taken out by his family members. Oh [ __ ] Just
00:49:04
a few months after the acquitt, he was arrested at a drugstore in Houston after he was witnessed urinating on a candy
00:49:11
rack. That's a dick move. Real dick move. A charge to which he pleaded no contest in an incident his lawyer
00:49:19
successfully argued was a medical incident. Nothing's medical about that, babe. I'm
00:49:24
just confused how you whip your dick out during a medical emergency. I don't know. And on the candy. Yeah, that's
00:49:30
[ __ ] up. At the time of his arrest in New Orleans on the murder charge, federal agents found a large amount of
00:49:35
circumstantial evidence suggesting he was planning to flee the country. Among other things, items found in his
00:49:41
possession included a loaded 38 caliber pistol. Jesus Christ. Robert's passport and birth certificate, a fake driver's
00:49:48
license, maps of the southern US and Cuba. Oh [ __ ] A large amount of cash and fleshcoled latex latex masks.
00:49:58
At the time of the arrest, the cash had been divided up into smaller quantities and placed in envelopes, which
00:50:04
investigators believed were going to be sent to whichever location Durst planned
00:50:08
to flee to. A belief that Robert didn't deny. What a life. Yeah. Given the confused state he was in at the time,
00:50:18
Robert was transferred to a secure facility where he would be treated for mental health issues before being
00:50:23
processed by the courts. Though following that announcement, Durst's lawyer refuted the claims that his
00:50:28
client had mental health issues, stating, quote, "He is not suicidal." And it's like, "Yeah, I don't think
00:50:33
that's what we're really worried about here." I think there's a few other things going on. Robert Durst had always
00:50:38
been a peculiar, quirky man. But at the time of his arrest in 2015, questions about his mental health had become
00:50:45
common whenever his name came up. Yeah. Just a few months earlier, Douglas Durst
00:50:49
gave his brother gave an interview to the New York Post in which he detailed some of his brother's bizarre behavior
00:50:55
over the years. Um, he said, "Before the disappearance of my sister-in-law, Bob had a series of Alaskan malamutes, which
00:51:03
is like a husky. He had seven of them, and they all died mysteriously of different things within six months of
00:51:11
his owning them. All of them named Eigore. We don't know how they died or what happened to their bodies.
00:51:21
What the [ __ ] That's so [ __ ] up and scary on so many different levels. He has a series, seven of them. Seven
00:51:29
Alaskan malamutes, beautiful huskys, all named Igore. I'm really stuck on that ice. I'm really stuck on that. I'm
00:51:37
really stuck on that piece. And they all died within 6 months of him having them.
00:51:41
And they were never seen again. You don't know what happened to them. What the [ __ ] did he do to those dogs? That's
00:51:46
horrifying. It's so scary. And why were they all named Eigore? And Douglas um Durst made it clear in that interview
00:51:53
and others that he believed Robert killed the dogs as practice for when he eventually killed Kathy. Oh my god. His
00:52:01
brother said that. While Robert Yeah. While Robert was awaiting trial for the murder of Susan
00:52:07
Berman, investigators in New York were ramping up their reopened investigation into Cathy's disappearance. based in
00:52:14
part on the statements and evidence collected during the making of the Jinx. Yeah. In addition to working
00:52:19
cooperatively with the FBI and detectives in LA, detectives in New York received a warrant for Durst's apartment
00:52:26
where they confiscated a large number of documents and other items. Uh-oh. Ultimately, it took 2 years before Durst
00:52:33
was deemed healthy and stable enough to participate in a trial. Yeah. In that time, he had been treated for cancerous
00:52:38
tumors in his throat, as well as several other health and mental health related issues. Investigators used the delay to
00:52:45
gather more evidence against him and round up witnesses for the prosecution. Many of whom many of many of whom, at
00:52:53
least the wealthier among them, put up serious legal battles to keep themselves out of the courtroom, though none were
00:52:59
able to successfully avoid subpoena. Good. When Durst trial finally began in 2020, the pro Yeah, it was only Wow,
00:53:06
that's crazy. For some reason, it feels like that was like way longer ago. I know. The prosecution presented a very
00:53:12
simple theory as to the motive for Burman's murder. According to Deputy DA John Leuen, Durst eliminated Burman
00:53:19
because she'd agreed to cooperate with investigators re-examining the the Kathy Durst case. Yeah, pretty simple. I hate
00:53:25
that eliminated. Yeah, it's it's so real. that is what people do, but it is so scary. The prosecution believed that B
00:53:33
had known Durst killed Kathy in 1982 and had even helped him cover up the crime.
00:53:39
That's what the prosecution stated. Oh. Um Burman's friend, Nick Shaven, told the jury in a pre-trial hearing, "Susan
00:53:46
said to me specifically that Bob killed Kathy." Oh. According to Shaven, uh Susan loved Durst and had wanted to
00:53:54
protect him, so she agreed to help him cover up the crime, specifically by, among other things, calling the school
00:54:01
and pretending to be Kathy. Oh, that's so [ __ ] up. And that's something Susan had disclosed to friends
00:54:09
in the years after Kathy disappeared. So that one lingering thing that we were talking about, like who called? Who was
00:54:14
that? Susan. That's really [ __ ] up. The problem, according to Leuen, was that while Susan Burman may have been an
00:54:21
incredibly loyal friend to Durst, she had a reputation as someone who wasn't very good at keeping secrets. Also
00:54:27
revealed in pre-trial hearings was Burman's statement to friends that quote, "If anything ever happens to me,
00:54:32
Bobby did it." Another person saying that, "Luen didn't provide details into what exactly they believe prompted Durst
00:54:40
to kill Burman at the time, but it's not incumbent upon the prosecution to provide motive. Instead, they offered
00:54:46
the evidence and that's it. Hurst was known to be in California at the time of the death. Based on the testimony of
00:54:51
Burman's friends, he had a reason to kill Susan and they had the cadaavver/beverly Hills letter that an
00:54:57
independent analyst believed was a match for Durst handwriting. Right. Given the
00:55:02
extent of the evidence and the fact that the story was so wellknown by then because of the miniseries, Durst lawyers
00:55:07
encouraged him to own up to having written the letter to the LAPD a few years before a few days before Burman's
00:55:13
death cuz at this point he hadn't admitted it yet. Yeah. Yeah. This was a big turnaround for the man who so long
00:55:19
had denied having anything to do with that note, which he claimed was an indication of something that only the
00:55:26
killer could have known. He himself said that. Ooh. Still, while Durst's lawyers
00:55:31
were willing to admit he was in the area and even in Burman's home around the time of her death, uh, and he wrote the
00:55:37
note, they steadfastly denied that he had anything to do with the murder. They said, "Sure, he was in the area. He was
00:55:44
in her home around the time of her death. He wrote a note that said cadaavver at this address, but he did
00:55:50
not do it. Totally didn't kill her." Nick Darren told the court, "What the note demonstrates is that the person who
00:55:55
mailed it was aware there was a body at the house, not that the individual murdered Susan B." That's a wild ass
00:56:01
argument. That's a wild ass argument. I hope he stretched before he made that. For real. Dur's trial dragged on for
00:56:08
nearly seven months during which jurors and spectators heard a thorough overview
00:56:12
of his personal history and the full extent of his criminal activities. The defense claimed that he had nothing to
00:56:19
do with the Burman murder and that the prosecution was simply trying to capitalize on the popularity of an HBO
00:56:25
miniseries. Uh, defense attorney David Chesnoff said, "We believe the absence of evidence is evidence that Bob is not
00:56:32
guilty." I think there's an absence of evidence. The prosecutor, John Leuen, acknowledged
00:56:37
the lack of conclusive physical evidence, but stressed that while the evidence may have been largely
00:56:42
circumstantial, there was a lot of it and from very reputable sources, including the defendant himself. Well,
00:56:48
Mike, circumstantial evidence is evidence nonetheless. Yeah. In his opening statement, he said, "It's a long
00:56:53
and complicated story because Mr. Durst committed a lot of crimes. As you're listening, some of the most damaging
00:56:59
aspects of this case are going to come from him." Yeah. Luen reminded the jury Durst wasn't just in the area when
00:57:06
Burman died. He was in her house, which he admitted. He somehow also appeared to know there
00:57:13
would be a body in Susan Burman's home before she was even dead. She wasn't dead yet, y'all. Which they knew because
00:57:21
he had confessed to writing and sending the note, which was postdated before her
00:57:25
death. Medically, they found that out, guys. In the end, the jury sided with the DA. And on September 18th, 2021,
00:57:33
after more than seven hours of deliberation, Robert Durst was found guilty of the murder of his best friend,
00:57:40
Susan Berman, more than two decades earlier. Additionally, the jury found that the prosecution had successfully
00:57:47
pro proved the claim of special circumstances, specifically that Durst had been quote lying in weight for Bur
00:57:53
and that killing her effectively effectively amounted to quote killing a witness. Yeah. Which is a pretty big
00:57:59
deal. The following month on October 15th, Durst was back in court for sentencing and victim impact statements.
00:58:07
Denny Marcus, one of Burman's cousins, said, "I was robbed and my beautiful son was robbed of an ex absolutely
00:58:14
extraordinary, brilliant person whose life was s tragically and savagely taken." Before passing sentencing, Judge
00:58:21
Mark Windam had his own statement he wanted to make, calling the murder a quote witness killing and a horrific
00:58:27
crime as well as a quote denial of justice. Also, Judge Windham strongly rejected the defense's request for a new
00:58:34
trial, citing the quote overwhelming evidence of guilt as one of the reasons. So, he's like, I don't need the physical
00:58:39
evidence. Like, there's enough. Yeah. Finally, with all the statements out of the way, Judge Windham handed down his
00:58:45
sentence, life in prison, without the possibility of parole. Bye. So, the case against Robert Durst had been built on
00:58:53
the theory that he killed Susan Burman in order to prevent her from sharing what she knew about the disappearance of
00:58:58
Kathy Durst. Given that it had been a successful strategy, police in New York filed seconddegree murder charges
00:59:05
against Durst, alleging he murdered his wife in 1982. I wonder why second degree. I don't know. It's always
00:59:11
confusing. They might be claiming it was during like a fight, you know. Oh, okay.
00:59:15
According to the lead detective on the case, Joseph Joseph Basera, the verdict in the Burman case was only one of the
00:59:21
factors that prompted this new filing. In addition to Basera's discussions with the LA district attorney, he also cited
00:59:28
quote conversations with numerous witnesses and observations of defendants recorded interviews and court testimony
00:59:34
in related proceeding proceedings. So basically, he [ __ ] himself over. Unfortunately, Robert Durst would never
00:59:41
see a trial for the murder of Kathy Durst. On January 10th, 2022, he died from cardiac arrest at San Sanwaqin
00:59:50
Hospital in California at the age of 78. Oh, it's so frustrating. His death in 2022 brought an end to the story of one
00:59:59
of New York's wealthiest and most bizarre criminals. But after decades of public interest in the saga, Andrew
01:00:05
Jerki felt the public was entitled to their own kind of closure. In late April 2024, nine years after the Jinx aired on
01:00:13
HBO, the cable channel aired the six episode second season of the show, which focused on Durst's life after the
01:00:20
original series aired until his death. Oh. In his assessment of the second season, New York Times critic Mike Hail
01:00:26
concluded, "Everyone has seen the jinx. Everyone knows how it contributed to Durst's downfall. Everyone is in on the
01:00:33
joke and the wholesale intrusion of the show into its own narrative is not in these episodes dramatic or moving. It's
01:00:41
not a great Huh. Great end. Oof. But that is the that is the story. It's such an interesting case. So [ __ ] bizarre.
01:00:51
Such a weird guy. It is such a twisty turny. It is. He is bizarre. Well, because it goes on for so many decades,
01:01:00
too. It took forever. Yeah. And in so many places and just I didn't realize that there was a follow-up, though. Have
01:01:06
you watched any of it? I haven't watched the follow-up. I'd like to now. I was thinking, well, when you first started
01:01:11
uh covering this, I want to rewatch the first season, but I'll definitely check out the second now. Yeah, definitely.
01:01:17
Definitely check out that first season. Yeah, if you haven't seen the first, you
01:01:20
got to see it because it did contribute to getting him finally where they needed
01:01:24
him to be. It bums me out that there was never true justice for Kathy's murder. I
01:01:29
know. That's the thing that kills me because also that's his wife. Where is Kathy? I know. That's the thing that
01:01:34
bothers me the most is like where is she? Where is she? And he just died never telling anyone. That's really
01:01:40
[ __ ] up. And killed the only other person that might know. Mhm. Like that sucks. It's really sad.
01:01:47
All I can think of though is I mean people said Susan Burman was not a good secret keeper. I told someone. Does
01:01:53
someone know? Someone knows. You got to say it, man. You got to tell someone. You can't let Kathy Durst just go into
01:01:59
No, she has family, you know. No. Not finding out where she is. Yeah. That's awful. Or what happened.
01:02:05
Everybody deserves to be found like actually laid to real rest, you know. Yeah, exactly. What an interesting case
01:02:12
though. It is. And go check out the Jinx. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not
01:02:21
so weird that as Robert Durst cuz he's Don't be that weird. Don't be that weird.
01:02:28
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