00:00:06
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I am Elena. And this is Morbid. [Music] This is morbid. Trying to figure out
00:00:29
what to eat for dinner. Not flaming hot Cheetos. No, I just tried flaming hot Cheetos for the first time. I like that
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you say flaming. Flaming. What is it supposed to be? Like flaming. Flaming. Flaming. Oh, I thought it was flaming.
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Flaming. It's flaming. Such an author. I have tried flaming hot Cheetos for the first time. It's Yeah. I've never tried
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them before, which you would think I would. I love cheesy goodness. Yeah. Um, they're okay. Yeah, I took a video of
00:00:58
her trying them. She just said, "So spicy." They're so spicy. They're not like crazy spicy and then they're so
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artificial tasting. I think I've just like lost a taste for super artificial tasting stuff. I get that. You offer the
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most and I was not interested. Yeah, I think that's what happened. Remember I tried Takis? Oh, yeah. And it made me
00:01:18
literally sick. Like I think it was just I couldn't get That's another thing I've
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never tried. I know my bounds when it comes to this IBS body of Well, your stomach is a is the wild west, so I
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don't blame you for putting up boundaries. Listen, I'm going to say some crazy [ __ ] right now. I'm not a
00:01:32
medical doctor, so don't [ __ ] listen to me. But no, no, no. And it's I'm not I was going to say it, but then I
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decided not to. But you're not someone who claims that you can beat infertility with a positive mindset. No. Or raw
00:01:45
milk. But I do find a difference in my Tum Tums happiness when I eat chia seed pudding in the morning, you know. And
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there's actually scientific evidence behind that and like how it works as it travels through your body. Well, people
00:02:01
also people like it. It's I've never really had it, but I I think there's something to that. You don't like
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pudding, though. I do love pudding. You do like pudding? Yeah, I love pudding. Why did I think you don't like pudding?
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I don't know. Pudding. I love a pudding moment. It's I think it's really good and it's also really easy to make. So
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there it's like four ingredients. I should try that because I really need to I got to get back I was in a really good
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uh like meal preppy place of of being um for like the last few months I was like
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every Sunday I was doing my meal prep for the week and it was mostly like snacks for the kids and like you know
00:02:37
just getting things ready so we could have an easier week and like that es and flows so much. It just cuz life Yeah.
00:02:43
It's like we would have a couple of busy weekends and it would throw me off or we
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people got sick like the kids got sick, I got sick, John got like somebody got sick and it just threw us all off. But I
00:02:52
need to get back in my [ __ ] because I do think the that life flows nicer when there's a little bit of prep involved. I
00:02:59
like a prep. I just prepped three of these for this week cuz I was like I'm I was waking up I've been waking up so
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late lately because I happen to get it coming into the office ridiculously late. I just roll up in here at [ __ ]
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like 9:17. I'm like, "Sorry." Hey everyone. We start early usually, but I just I don't know what's going on with
00:03:20
my life. Dash says, "Fuck y'all." Yeah. I make myself up when I want to. I show up I show up when I can. When I can. I
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show up pretty regularly. Um but yeah. No, I I kept I kept just like not eating breakfast or like grabbing something
00:03:33
stupid or being exponentially more late because I was like, I have to eat breakfast. Yeah. And these chia seed
00:03:38
puddings, you make them, you have to set them in the fridge cuz they um they'll [ __ ] you up if they don't Oh, if they
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cuz they're they're like loaded with fiber, but um they have to soak in a like some kind of liquid so that they're
00:03:51
not so they're not as like crazy. I don't know. Yeah, but cuz I think basic I think they can like maybe not exactly,
00:04:00
but I think they can like explode in you if you don't soak them first. I think people have had like ruptures. Here's
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the thing. I don't know if I'll be doing chia seed pudding. I don't like having any kind of risk with my food. No,
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there's no risk if you soak them. Like like one thing, rhubarb pie. What? I'm a little scared of rhubarb pie. Why is
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that? Because you have to like they don't take there's a certain part of a rhubarb that if you eat it, it's
00:04:23
poisonous. For real? Yeah. I have you ever had a rhubarb? Um I I don't know if I have to be honest. I don't even know
00:04:29
if I've come across a rhubarb in the produce section. is a is a thing. But yeah, it's like the
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leaves. I think if you like leave any of the leaves on, they're poisonous. And that I don't like having any kind of
00:04:41
risk with my food. No, I got that. You know, like I'm not one of those people who's going to eat that like highly
00:04:46
poisonous like [ __ ] sushi that like you know that like crazy thing that it's like if they don't do it perfectly.
00:04:53
Wait, there's highly poisonous sushi. It's like a It's in like I think it's like some crazy delicacy that like Oh,
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if they don't prepare it exactly right, it can kill you. Is it like the kind of fish or something? I think so. I've
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never heard of this. It's like the way you prepare it. I think if you don't do it correctly. Oh, [ __ ] I'm not living
00:05:10
that life. Like that's why I don't bungee jump. That's why I'm not skydiving. Yeah. That's why you ruined
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oysters for me and my husband. That's why I ruined oysters for as many people as I could. Cuz I'm just like, "No, live
00:05:21
this life with me where we eat food that doesn't kill us." It's good. No, honestly, chia seed pudding is fine. You
00:05:26
literally just have to soak it in a liquid before you eat it. Otherwise, it could just, you know, kill you. Yeah,
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I'm a little scared by that. It won't kill you. It'll just explode in your diet. It's going to support you. I don't
00:05:36
know. Look into it. I honestly I recommend it though because gets things moving. It gets things moving and um it
00:05:44
might really get things moving by exploding inside of you. So just just soak it in a liquid. Um but they're
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loaded in fiber and we as women especially don't get enough fiber. And this is not an ad. We literally just
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don't. That sounded like it was about to be an ad. I know for a second I was like
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do we have an ad? I was like [ __ ] off. No, I feel I feel passionate about this.
00:06:03
as women do not get in. I was like lately I feel so passionate about like women's like like just like health.
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There's no [ __ ] research into women's health whatsoever. And I've been looking
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more into it and they don't recommend that we have enough fiber and all of us are lacking in fiber and that makes us
00:06:20
tired and irregular and have IBS and you know this is a health podcast now. Yeah.
00:06:26
Welcome. No. Anyways, um we were gonna say something else. No. Uh I don't know. We just have uh we have some some stuff
00:06:34
coming up that's fun. We do um that I just you know I'm just sharing with my besties here. You know all of you
00:06:41
everybody you Mikey all the people listening um we get to go to the Jack's Mannequin concert soon.
00:06:50
I mean you it's like the day after tomorrow. I was going to say it's like by the time you hear it come out we'll
00:06:55
have already been it was awesome. I'm sure it was great. Good job Andrew. Yeah. We get to hang with Andrew. Yeah,
00:07:00
I'm sure for a minute again. And that'll be fun. And Aiden's coming. Um because that's always a fun thing to be like,
00:07:06
"Oh, let's just hang out with Andrew McMahon again." Rockstar. Um again, 16-year-old me is just not not really
00:07:13
fully grasping that as reality, but here we are. Yeah. Um and I'm just excited to
00:07:17
see Jack Mannequin play again because I haven't been to a Jack Mannequin concert
00:07:21
in a long time. I actually can't believe I talked about fiber before this. That's
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like the worst transition ever. We just talked about like digestive tracks and fiber before and now you're like, "Let's
00:07:31
talk about Jack's mannequin." I'm like, "That's good." You're like, "Oh, yeah." You know, that really shifted us into
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gear. Jesus Christ, I love it. I'm so excited. I haven't seen Jack's Mannequin since I think 2016. Yeah. It's been a
00:07:44
long time. Yeah. So, that'll be fun. Mhm. We got that. And hopefully, you know, hopefully we see some of you
00:07:49
there. Yeah. I bet we did. We probably did. It was so much fun. Oh, we did. We saw some of you there. And it was Hey.
00:07:55
Hey guys. Good to see you. Hey, you. We saw there listener. You know what's gonna be, you know what's super duper
00:08:01
cool? What? There's only like 20ish episodes left where we have to be so far ahead. 20 episodes left that we
00:08:09
have to Yeah, we only have we only have a handful of episodes where we're not going to understand where it's uh
00:08:15
falling in the pushing order where we're at the spaceime continues. Yeah, we're almost at a point where we're going to
00:08:20
be up to date with you guys in our episodes. So nice to see you guys again. You guys can't wait. Yeah, it's going to
00:08:28
be nice. What if I laughed like that? Whenever I say, "What if I laughed like that?" So
00:08:33
many people comment. They're like, "You do. You do." I'm like, "Don't tell me I laugh like that." You laugh like that. I
00:08:39
just said, "Don't tell me that. I'm reckless today. You are reckless." Um, and this is a reckless story that
00:08:47
you're about to finish. Yeah, I guess. Reckless is a great way to describe it. I I think we bantered the banter a
00:08:55
thousand sons. That was beautiful. Thank you. Poetic even. All right. So, yeah, we are in part two of the murder of
00:09:02
David Harris. This is like Elena just said, a reckless story. Harrowing one might say. Mhm. Uh in part one, we
00:09:09
started obviously with the unfortunate act of Clara Harris running over her husband David while his 16-year-old
00:09:16
daughter Lindsay sat in the passenger seat of the car. I cannot get over that. Yeah. I just feel deep deep sadness for
00:09:23
her. Like I'm sending her all of my condolences at all times. Yeah. So Clara had just learned two weeks earlier that
00:09:29
David was having an affair with his secretary Gail Bridges. How cliche. Obviously that was absolutely
00:09:35
devastating to her for so many reasons, but they had been married for 10 years at that point. They had threeyear-old
00:09:44
twins. Wow. Three-year-old twins at that point. Three years old. And she's being
00:09:50
told that she's like not bouncing back quick enough. Oh yeah. Because remember in part one, that's another part to
00:09:57
revisit. Yeah. She had him sit down with her and make a list of all their attributes that like she so she could
00:10:03
compare to make herself better, which is horrifying. The saddest thing I think I've ever heard. And he wrote down that
00:10:09
Gail had almost a per a perfect body with almost no fat. And that good for Gail. Clara was a large person, too big.
00:10:21
And again, she had three old twins. So, so that's [ __ ] terrible. That's cool. But also, so that all of that was
00:10:29
devastating. And they also were owners of multiple practices across Houston together and he's cheating with one of
00:10:37
their employees. Yeah. When you think about that, like her money that she's earning, Clara is going to this woman
00:10:44
who's having an affair with her husband, paying this woman's salary, who's having
00:10:48
an affair with her husband. Yeah. Not anymore, though, because remember, she got fired. She got fired. Clara said,
00:10:53
"Hand over those keys." So, now that she knew pretty much everything there was to
00:10:57
know about her husband's affair, Clara wanted to know more about Gail Bridges. Who was this woman who had managed to
00:11:03
easily lure her husband away? You don't want to know. She You know what, though?
00:11:08
You do. No, no, I know you want to know. That's why I just looked at you. But for
00:11:11
real, you don't. It's not going to do anything for you. It's not going to do anything for you. Upset you more. It's I
00:11:17
totally understand people's response to this. Oh, 100%. Cuz I have to know everything about everything, too. Even
00:11:24
like when it's a bad thing. Oh yeah. I can't imagine this specific bad thing. It's never good though. Oh, it's
00:11:29
awesome. It just never ends in you being like, "Wow, I feel so much better for having known that." I know. Well, she
00:11:36
found out g that Gail I mean she knew that Gail had worked for the company for several months, but Clara didn't really
00:11:41
know a lot about her. So, she started asking around. What she learned about Gail was kind of just a mix of vapid
00:11:46
facts, salacious rumors, and obviously biased opinions. But one thing caught her off guard. Caught Clara off guard.
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Supposedly, Gail had left her husband years earlier to be in a relationship with another woman. So, the news was
00:11:58
unconfirmed. It was just a rumor, but it was confusing to Clara. Her understanding of sexual identity.
00:12:03
Remember this is like very early 2000s in Texas. Her understanding was somewhat rigid. Yeah. She wondered how could Gail
00:12:12
be interested in a sexual romantic relationship with David if she was a lesbian which like you can be in a
00:12:18
relationship with a woman and not be a lesbian in case anybody was confused. Yeah. So upon learning more about Gail,
00:12:23
Clara got determined to learn as much as she possibly could. Every time she learns a new piece of information, she
00:12:28
wants more and more and more and more. Yeah. See, it's a slippery slope. And she didn't just want information, she
00:12:33
wanted revenge. Great band. To that end, on July 22nd, Clara made an appointment
00:12:39
with Blue Moon Investigations, which was a private investigation firm that she found in the yellow pages of the phone
00:12:44
book. The yellow pages. Yeah. A few hours later, she found herself sitting down with the with Blue Moon's owners,
00:12:53
Lucas and Bobby Baka, where she handed out a large sum of cash in advance. What she wanted, she explained to them, was
00:12:59
them to just surveil Gail Bridges to get any information or even possibly recordings of her with her supposed
00:13:05
lover, Julian Knight, that Clara could use to publicly shame Gail and ruin her reputation, which is like homophobic and
00:13:14
annoying. And also, it's not doing anything. No. And this is where it's not doing it. That's childish. It's
00:13:21
childish. And this is where I Clara really loses me. Yeah. She's thinking that she's gonna publicly shame this
00:13:28
woman for being a lesbian. Yeah. And it's like, nope. And also, and it's literally just like, for why? Yeah.
00:13:36
Like, that's just it doesn't What do you get out of that? It's not doing anything. Like, this is doing nothing
00:13:42
but wasting your [ __ ] time. And if you're truly wanting to work on your marriage, you do have to now concentrate
00:13:48
on the girl in the dirt and the like get her out of here. You know, that's the thing. Like, make sure she's gone. Like
00:13:54
that doesn't mean obsessing over her, which obviously again better easier said than done, but it's like this just isn't
00:14:02
going through this big thing to like publicly shame her and [ __ ] is just not it's not worth your time. It's not
00:14:09
conducive to anything and it's very childish. Regardless of how angry you are or upset, that's childish. It just
00:14:15
is. It is. But the invest the private investigators assured Clara none of this would be any problem. The case file on
00:14:22
Gail Bridges actually came together pretty quickly because it turned out that during her pro her divorce
00:14:27
proceedings three years earlier, Gail's husband, Steve, had accused her of carrying on an affair with her friend
00:14:34
Julie Knight. Oh. It didn't take long for the accusations to get back to Julie's husband, Chuck Knight, who then
00:14:41
in turn filed his own divorce papers alleging his wife was having an affair with Gail. So, this is messy as hell
00:14:47
now. And Gail is messy as hell. Well, neither man offered any evidence. Gail's messy for having an affair with uh
00:14:55
David, but her affair with Julie is unconfirmed. It seems like it might have just been helpful for her husband to
00:15:02
have this in divorce proceedings kind of thing. Yeah, we've seen that. Yeah, cuz
00:15:07
neither man offered any evidence to support their claims. And according to Valerie Davenport, who ended up being a
00:15:13
lawyer for both Julie and Gail, she said the tale of the affair had been invented
00:15:17
by their husbands as a way to divert attention from their own improper misconduct. Ah, apparently Steve Bridges
00:15:24
you had alleged alcoholism and drug abuse and Chuck Knight had his own alleged extrammarital affair. Alleged.
00:15:31
Alleged. For the Bakas, the private investigators, the details in the actual facts didn't really matter very much. So
00:15:38
what they reported was only what appeared in public record. Yeah. So throughout the day, the the bizarre
00:15:44
story started to grow in size and in stranges. It turned out that in 2001, just a couple years earlier, a year
00:15:51
earlier, Julie and Gail had appeared on an episode of the daytime talk show, I don't know if you've heard of it, Sally
00:15:57
Jesse Raphael. Oh, holy [ __ ] The with the glasses. Oh, with the glasses. I remember Sally Jesse Raphael. I never
00:16:04
saw it. It was before my time, but Okay. Just kidding. But Julie and Gail appeared in an
00:16:11
episode entitled My Husband Spies on Me. Shut up. So, this is a real This is an episode. Yes. My Gail is in Google My
00:16:22
Husband spies on me. Sally, Jesse, Raphael, and they're in it. But wearing wigs and dark glasses to disguise their
00:16:27
appearances because daytime talk show. I cannot. Yeah. And because their husband
00:16:32
spies on them. And because their husband spies on them. Julie and Gail described
00:16:35
how their husbands tried to portray them as lesbians in order to get favorable outcomes in their respective divorces,
00:16:41
which is [ __ ] up. It is super [ __ ] up. A few weeks later, after David's murder, the press seized on this
00:16:46
information because obviously it is the perfect thing to write a sleazy story about. Of course, they were hoping that
00:16:52
the scandal, however fabricated it was, would drive readership and it worked. They don't care if it's real. No. The
00:16:58
story of David Harris's murder became a national news story within just days of his death. The Houston Chronicle was
00:17:04
publishing photos of the women in their wigs from the Sally Jesse Raphael episode, elevating the story from one of
00:17:11
local interest to a bizarre sex scandal that would obviously fascinate the nation cuz it is bizarre. It is bizarre.
00:17:18
Like, it's very bizarre the whole thing. It's so layered at this point. Yeah. Other tabloid and tabloid adjacent
00:17:25
papers followed suit. The New York Post declared a headline reading, "Bisexual triangle led to car slay of hubby.
00:17:33
Who wrote that? That's a lot. I wanna That's a lot. I want to talk to the person. I got to talk to you about that
00:17:38
because that one is a lot. That's a lot. They also compared Gail Bridges to the character of Hester Prinn from the
00:17:44
Scarlet Letter, which like do better. Yeah. I mean, that that's also just like, okay, unoriginal. Yeah. Like,
00:17:51
okay, Scarlet A, we get it. Okay. Julie Knight said, "It is madness. There's no other way to describe it." But I feel
00:17:57
bad that she got dragged into it because from the sounds of it, Gail and Julie, like when Gail and Julie were married to
00:18:03
their respective partners, they were all friends and then they just decided to Yeah. It doesn't sound like this scheme.
00:18:10
Doesn't really sound like they had a relationship. Yeah. But within days of David's death, photos of Clara, David,
00:18:15
Gail, and Julie were just plastered across every newspaper, every tabloid, TV talk shows all across the country.
00:18:24
Julie told Skip Hollensworth in 2002, "You really do think you have your life worked out. You really do think nothing
00:18:30
can go too wrong. And now here we all are on the front pages of newspapers." That's rough. But you feel bad for her
00:18:36
specifically cuz she has nothing to do. She's such a side like character in this
00:18:41
whole thing. It's you feel really bad for her. It's really sad given the timeline. It would seem kind of
00:18:46
impossible too that Bobby and Lucas Baka could have dug up so much information about Gail Bridges. It was just like a
00:18:53
day and a half before the murder took place. Oh wow. That Gail got all of this information. Yeah. But they didn't seem
00:18:59
to have any trouble putting together a large file on Gail in a matter of like hours essentially. It was only after the
00:19:05
murder that Clara learned the real reason. Blue Moon Investigations had also been hired by Julie's ex-husband
00:19:12
Chuck Knight to surveil his wife who he believed was having an affair with his with her best friend Gail Bridges. Uh,
00:19:19
Bobby Baka followed both women for days and ultimately came up with nothing. So,
00:19:23
like I said, it doesn't seem like they were even having an affair. She actually told Chuck Knight, "They acted like
00:19:28
Wilma and Betty from the Flintstones and there was nothing quote unquote lesbianike about their behavior."
00:19:33
Nothing. What is lesbian like? Is that just like if they start making out? If they just start like fuking in the
00:19:39
street, is that lesbian? Like, like what? I'm like, it sounds like they were just best friends that were like hanging
00:19:47
out and probably going through hard times in their marriages. Yeah. But please, Bobby, let us do tell about
00:19:53
lesbian lifeisms. But according to Bobby, when she reported her chuck her findings to Chuck Knight, he asked her
00:19:59
to inflame the lesbian aspects of the report again to help him in his divorce proceedings. This is all alleged. After
00:20:05
that, Bobby filed the report away. didn't really think anything else about it until a few months later when Gail
00:20:11
and Julie showed up at her office. They both intended to hire Blue Moon to investigate their husbands, but only
00:20:19
Julie ended up going through with it and Bobby opened a case into Chuck Knight's
00:20:23
life. Ah, among the things that Bobby learned was that Chuck was allegedly having an affair of his own with a woman
00:20:28
named Lorie, who was a part-time baton twirling instru instructor and a wife of a local builder. How How are these
00:20:38
people real? That's what I want to know. You know what? It's so Texas. Like that's real wild. Everything's bigger in
00:20:44
Texas. Time baton twirling instructor. Yeah, why not? You can't make that up. You can't. You really can't. Everything
00:20:52
is in fact bigger and more bodacious and wild. In Texas, apparently. So when Bobby brought the report to Gail and
00:21:00
Julie, the women were stunned. Steve and Lorie Wells had also been very close friends with the Knights in the Bridges
00:21:07
until they drifted apart. Oh, damn. So, because So, Chuck was having an affair with Lorie. So, like all these people
00:21:14
who are friends, like these couple friends allegedly are all having an affair with one or other people. Wow.
00:21:20
Adorable. Yeah. So, after months of court appointments and back and forth with the
00:21:25
lawyers, all three women ended up getting divorced from their husbands, which I would say is good. Probably
00:21:29
great for everybody. Great for everybody. But that's how Gail Bridges found herself in the employee of David
00:21:35
Harris. And it wasn't until 6 or seven months later when Clara hired Blue Moon to follow her husband that the lives of
00:21:42
all these people then became pretty tenuously connected. And only through all of their connections to the Blue
00:21:47
Moon private investigation firm, which like damn, these people got business, huh? Yeah. Seriously. But when Clara
00:21:54
first met with Bobby to hire Blue Moon Investigations firm a few days before David was ultimately killed, Bobby
00:22:00
didn't recognize Gail or Julie's names and assigned the case to one of her part-time investigators. It was only
00:22:06
after the murder that she made the connections. And then by at that point, the media had also made the connections
00:22:13
and started playing up all these crazy aspects of the story. So that's how it got as big as really like inflamed. Yes.
00:22:21
Now, by the time she went on trial in late January 2003, Clara Harris had become a household name across the US
00:22:28
because of all this. Yeah. Her story of a suburban sex scandal and a woman driven to murder had for some reason
00:22:35
resonated with a certain segment of the population. Ah, I can't imagine this story resonating. I'm so sad that it
00:22:42
resonated. I know. You know, like that's just like damn. Yeah. Like can you imagine? No. Like if this is the story
00:22:51
that you're like, "Been there, sister. No." Like that's hard. No, no, not been there, sister. Honey,
00:23:01
no. So, while the tabloids focused on the sensational aspects of the story, like the sex lives of everybody involved
00:23:08
or, you know, tangentally involved. Yeah. Others speculated on the motive or just simply gave their uninformed
00:23:14
opinions on the matter. Yeah. Which is literally what we're doing. So that's exactly what we're doing is what I'm
00:23:20
we're speaking from a points of total not knowing what this feels like. You know, according to Skip
00:23:26
Hollinssworth, local radio talk shows were jammed with callers saying that Clara should not be severely punished
00:23:31
for what she had done, reasoning that she never would have committed murder had her husband not cheated on her.
00:23:37
Okay, here's the thing. Like, go off. Here's the thing. No. No. Because those two two things can be true at once.
00:23:47
Yeah. Would she have committed murder if this didn't happen? Probably not. I don't
00:23:52
think so. Probably not. But that doesn't mean that she shouldn't mean she shouldn't that she should have done it
00:23:57
like or that she's somehow like just relieved of all, you know, guilt for having done it. Then that would mean
00:24:05
that every single woman who's ever been cheated on can run their husband over with their car. That's pretty [ __ ]
00:24:10
lawless. or that anytime someone commits murder in like a crime of passion or something like that, you're like, would
00:24:17
they have committed murder if like this had to happen? Probably not, right? So, I guess we won't punish them for it
00:24:23
because whoops slippery slope. That's the thing. And I get it. Emotions are high. People who
00:24:31
probably have cheating spouses are sitting there being like, "Yeah, like let it let it all happen." But it's like
00:24:37
you really have to take it down about a hundred notches and take yourself totally out of the emotions of it and
00:24:45
say, "Yeah, I get that you are upset. I get that sucks. I get that you can sit there and be like, I want to run him
00:24:50
over with my car." Like saying that as like a I'm frustrated. Hyperbole. Hyperbole. That's the the key here. And
00:24:57
it's like, in the words of Zach from the Valley, is hyperbole dead, everybody? There you go. They Elena doesn't watch.
00:25:03
I don't watch The Valley, so I don't know, but I'll trust you. And But that's and it's like you nobody's taking this
00:25:09
as like a human thing. No. That like yes shitty thing shitty things like leading
00:25:17
up to this for sure. She had every right to be angry. She had every reason to lash out at times and get upset and act
00:25:24
you know a little foolishly at times. Like you can even put that aside a little bit. Mhm. You cannot excuse
00:25:30
murdering someone because they were terrible to you even like you know what I mean like like that they hurt
00:25:37
your feelings and that they betrayed you even. You can't justify it. Slippery cuz
00:25:42
that's a slippery ass slope cuz like everybody takes betrayal a different way. And you can't just blanketly say,
00:25:49
"Well, he did this shitty thing so he deserved it." Yeah. You can't do that. We would have a reckless nation. It
00:25:54
would be a lawless nation. It's like you can't do that. Yeah. So, it's like we got to take it back to being rational
00:26:01
humans here and rational adults and say, "Yeah, you have every right to be pissed. You can't do that. You don't
00:26:06
have every right to have a vehicle." He shouldn't have lost his life. No. Should
00:26:10
he have been, you know, should he have had some of his money spent on her behalf? Absolutely. Yeah. Even the even
00:26:17
the DA says that later. Yeah. Should he have had to like, you know, should he have had to hear it from her?
00:26:23
Absolutely. Should he have had to repair his relationships with everyone around him and had to go through the hardship
00:26:29
of that? Absolutely. And he should bend over backwards for it. But he shouldn't have been murdered. It's just not. No,
00:26:37
it's it's pretty black and white to me. I agree. I I agree wholeheartedly. Well,
00:26:42
the sympathy that many people seem to have for Clara wasn't just lost on the press. Once the trial opened, a lot of
00:26:47
outlets reported on the fact that her high-priced defense attorneys were paid for at least in part by David's parents.
00:26:54
Wow. Which is these are big people. It's Wow. This was very shocking to me, this
00:27:00
piece, but I was like, I think these are good people. Like I can't imagine the parents. Yeah. Just so throughout the
00:27:07
trial, it was actually common to see David's parents escort Clara, their daughter-in-law, in and out of court
00:27:12
each day and sit behind her in a show of support. Wow. In their statement to the
00:27:17
press, the Harrises said, "As a good Christian family, they had forgiven their daughter-in-law and hoped she
00:27:22
would remain free to raise the young twin boys that she had shared with her husband."
00:27:28
Those are I'm just bigger people than me. I'm stunned by that. that this is a shocking case. I would say that is one
00:27:36
of the most shocking cases. That's honestly very shocking. I can't even comment on that cuz I don't even That's
00:27:42
shocking. It's It's a whole other level. That's a whole different thing. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's like shocking.
00:27:51
Yeah. I can't say that I would feel the same, but like I don't think I could get
00:27:54
to that place. I really give them a lot of credit because that's a whole other level of forgiveness. Yeah. That I have
00:28:00
never found in my heart. Yeah. I don't think I will ever find that nor but wild and lucky [ __ ] Clara. Yeah. Can you
00:28:09
like how do you face your mother-in-law after running down her child? Yeah, that's Wow. Well, for her part, Clara
00:28:18
did seem to be remorseful for what she had done. As her lawyer, George Parnham, said in a 2002 interview, it was rare to
00:28:25
find Clara not weeping. And Clara was having was still having difficulty believing that David would never again
00:28:30
walk through the front door of their home. Cuz again, I think she blanked out, man. I really do. I don't think she
00:28:36
was with it. I think I definitely think she feels regret. Yeah. But I still think she needed to be punished. Yeah.
00:28:43
Prior to the Harris murder and prior to Clara's trial, George Parnum had actually gained national notoriety as
00:28:49
the defense attorney for Andrea Yates. And for anybody that doesn't know Andrea Yates, she was a Houston mother who
00:28:55
drowned her five children in 2001. I'm not going to say and just so you know, we will literally never cover that
00:29:03
case. And you don't want to hear us cover. Yeah, you don't want to hear my opinions. So, but that notoriety brought
00:29:08
even more attention to an already heavily watched story. the fact that this guy is the same guy who repped
00:29:13
Andrea Yates. Oh yeah, I would say so. That's a whole damn Yeah, we're not talking about that. Yeah, that's a
00:29:19
horrible case. But when the trial finally did get started, Parnham laid out the defense in his opening
00:29:24
statement. When he when she learned of her husband's affair with Gail Bridges, he said Clara was deeply hurt but
00:29:29
willing to work on their marriage, provided David end his relationship, which he did agree to do. But when Clara
00:29:35
learned that contrary to what they had agreed upon, David had checked into the Nassau Bay Hilton with Gail. Clara quote
00:29:41
acted in the heat of anger and betrayal which I do think is what happened. I think that's correct like you know at
00:29:48
the very base level of what it is. I think you're stating facts for sure. Yep. A little more nuanced than that. I
00:29:57
would say yes. Yes. Which is true, but it's it's a little more nuance. That's the perfect way to say it. He said once
00:30:02
she came out of her rage induced fog and uh realized what she had done, she was immediately remorseful and she cradled
00:30:08
David's head in her hands and insisted that he begin breathing. She was according to Parnham desperate to quote
00:30:15
keep her family together to bring her husband of 10 years back to her which he had tried to do through cosmetic surgery
00:30:21
and other beauty products. That this just so sad. It's tragic. It really is. Unlike the outcome in the Yates case,
00:30:28
Parnham's defense of Clara stood a fairly good chance of success with the jury though, which was uh composed of
00:30:34
nine women and three men, which I was like, damn, where was the selection there, right? Nine women and three men.
00:30:39
Damn, that's a that's a for real jury of your peers. Yeah, it is. During jury selection, one potential juror said,
00:30:45
"Any married woman can relate to Clara Harris." Uh, married woman here. Nope. I'm gonna go on the record and say no.
00:30:53
Married woman. Nope. I can't can't say that I do. Two married women right here do not relate to Clare Harris. Another
00:31:01
juror was potential juror was dismissed when she said she quote nicked her husband with a truck after discovering
00:31:06
him with a mistress years ago. Some of these things are inside thoughts that I think uh Texas is crazy. Some of
00:31:14
these things are go to the grave with I feel confident in saying Texas is a wild
00:31:19
place. It's a wild place. And like even I I feel confident saying that because even Texans say that. Yes. Like, and
00:31:25
this story is just such a prime example of Texas being a wild place. Just the fact that this just opened up women just
00:31:33
being like, "Oh, don't worry. I too hit my husband's mistress with my car." Like, it's just like, "Whoa, everybody.
00:31:38
This is not like everybody admit." I don't think in Boston you Well, you know what? Never mind. I'm not kidding. I
00:31:44
don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. But strangely, I was just saying like she's so lucky that there are so
00:31:50
many women on the jury, but even the men in the jury pool seemed open to her defense. One man said he had been
00:31:56
accused of assault when he discovered his wife's infidelity. So, he understood the impulse. He said, "Here's the thing.
00:32:03
I think they are correct in what they're saying. Some of them like being like, I
00:32:07
understand the that you got out of yourself. I can like I think they're almost looking at it like we are where
00:32:13
we're like, I understand the emotion behind it." Yes, that's driving you to this like place of just no return. But
00:32:21
I'm not the act and I'm not understanding not pulling yourself back from that point of no return. Hopefully,
00:32:27
but you can look at it and go, okay, I get that you are upset. I get it. Like you had every right to be upset and some
00:32:33
of them are like I've been there. It's the ones that are like I too have nicked my husband with the car and it's like
00:32:39
whoa. Okay, we're not in the same here. We didn't give that enough attention. Did you say you nicked nicked them?
00:32:45
nicked your husband with your car. Crazy. Just gave him a little boop. Like that's all. You can't nick someone with
00:32:52
your car. You either hit them or you don't. It's a motor vehicle. Like and that's a human body. Like that's you
00:32:57
don't nick someone. You nick someone with like some tweezers or like a some trimmers. No, your toenail cutters. And
00:33:03
that's where the that's where my issue is lying is like we're getting they're getting outside of the real point here
00:33:10
of like of like the emotions and the the betrayal and and all that is not coming
00:33:16
into question. Uhuh. It's the act that followed it. It's like you can It's just the same thing. You can get
00:33:24
upset, you can feel betrayed, you can scream, you can yell, you can act a little out of yourself. I get it. Like I
00:33:31
would I I can't imagine I I'm not going to sit here and say I would be in total control of my emotions and myself. No,
00:33:38
I'm barely in control of my emotions on a good day when I'm happy. I'm barely in
00:33:41
control of it. So it's like I I get that. And it's like but you just there's no excuse. And if for running someone
00:33:48
over three times in your car with their child in the car, there's just no excuse
00:33:54
for that. and to sit there and give the like, well, yeah, like you know, like I beat the [ __ ] out of my wife's, you
00:34:01
know, side piece there, right? And I caught a case for it, so I get it. And it's like, one, that's you shouldn't do
00:34:07
that. And two, that's a little different. It's a little different running someone over in the car three
00:34:13
times with the child in the car. Jury selection for this case sounded buck wild. I think people were just like, it
00:34:21
sounds like people were just kind of they found a lot of people who could relate to this, which is really sad. We
00:34:27
all need to to be better to our loved ones. Well, to sum it all up in one statement, one of the trial watchers
00:34:33
told a reporter, there's the rule of law and then there's the rule of law in Texas. The rule of law in Texas, it's
00:34:39
kind of cowboy law. It's a fine line between sanity and madness. I think that encompasses the movie. No,
00:34:46
I think that encompasses this entire [ __ ] case. It literally does. There is the rule of law and then there's the
00:34:52
rule of law in Texas. I Skip Hollinssworth covers so many cases in Texas. And whenever I do cover a case in
00:34:59
Texas, he's usually a source I'll use. And all of those cases that he has reported on throughout the years and all
00:35:05
of the cases that we have covered in morbid throughout the years, the Texas ones are among the [ __ ]
00:35:11
craziest stories I've ever read in my life. Yeah, Texas is just like, and they even say it like that. This is a man
00:35:18
from Texas. It's cowboy law. And I think that's the thing. I think they're just more willing to say that
00:35:25
like we all felt like we wanted to run someone over in a car. She just did it. And it's like, yeah, okay, I don't maybe
00:35:34
keep that stuff inside. Like I don't that's a lot. Like that there's just so many people openly being like, yeah, I
00:35:41
got it. It's like like please be specific. Tell me you get the emotion. Yeah, you got it. No one's saying that.
00:35:48
Everyone's just saying I get it. You got to be specific. And it's like no, we don't get it. We can't get that. We
00:35:55
can't get murdering someone cuz you're mad. The prosecution didn't. That's a good thing. Good news. Yeah. However
00:36:01
sympathetic Clara Harris looked to the jury and anybody even watching the trial, the prosecution flatly rejected
00:36:07
the sudden passion defense and instead pointed to the evidence which they believed would show the murder to be at
00:36:13
least deliberate, if not entirely planned. I don't think, personally, I don't think this was planned. Doesn't
00:36:19
feel I think it was deliberate. I think it was 100% deliberate. Had a moment where she said, "I'm going to run him
00:36:24
the [ __ ] over with my car." And then followed through on it. I don't think that she thought I don't think she woke
00:36:29
up that morning and thought that. I don't think that either. That's just my feeling as a person looking at this case
00:36:35
completely from the outside and hearing. I think she woke up that morning in a really bad emotional state that only got
00:36:42
worse throughout the day. Yeah, I think so, too. And I think she made a poor decision
00:36:50
with going out to look for Yeah. them. Because I think in that emotional state, there should have been a little
00:36:58
self-regulation here to say, I am in a highly emotional state about this. I feel some type of way. I should not go
00:37:05
out looking because also go like I don't I don't know that she had a plan when she did ultimately find them, but you're
00:37:11
sitting like you're going to find them at some point. You're hunting them down. So, what's the plan from there? And
00:37:17
Lindsay never ever ever should have been invited to go along for this. That's really my huge sticking point here.
00:37:23
Obviously, the murder and the entire thing having Lindsay involved in any way, shape, or form should never ever
00:37:32
ever have happened. Yeah. And that honestly should have been the like come down to earth moment of like Lindsay
00:37:39
being around is being like, "Okay, self-regulate." Yeah. Like I have someone that should have been your
00:37:46
thing. And it's and it is a little that was scary that like that didn't regulate
00:37:50
her. Well, Lindsay ended up testifying and I do think that helped bring people down to earth in on the jury away from
00:37:59
like the emotional impact of everything and you know relating to hating your husband. Yeah. Well, on the first day of
00:38:05
the trial, the prosecution called, like I just said, Lindsay Harris to testify against her stepmother. Lindsay
00:38:10
explained that they had gone out looking for her father and Gail that afternoon and how once she learned where they
00:38:15
were, Clara seemed determined to kill David. Lindsay told the jury she said she would kill my father for what he'd
00:38:20
done to her. Now again, who knows if that's like hyperbolic, like I think we've all said, "I'm going to kill, oh
00:38:27
my god, I'm going to kill him." Like, "Oh my god, you don't say that to a kid. You should never say that. I don't care
00:38:31
how old that kid is. 16 years old is still a kid." And it's like, you don't say that about their father. And you
00:38:37
ended up killing him later that day. So that's not great that you said that. Makes it seem like you had a plan here.
00:38:42
Mhm. Which, you know, maybe she did. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But in his opening statement, George
00:38:48
Parnum had, you know, tried to frame the murder as something akin to an accident.
00:38:51
Clara hadn't gone into the hotel in order to kill anyone, but after the brawl in the lobby, she was in a highly
00:38:57
aroused emotional state and acted without thinking. And he challenged the prosecution's claim that Clara had
00:39:02
driven over her husband multiple times, telling the jury that she only hit him once. Despite his best efforts to frame
00:39:08
Clara in a sympathetic light as a woman who had made a terrible mistake, the evidence and the testimony of those
00:39:14
present at the hotel when Davis David Harris was killed was all of those people were telling a very different
00:39:21
story. It's I go back to the cackling. The cackling and she absolutely ran over him more than one time. There's video
00:39:28
evidence of it. Yeah. Lindsay testified she was on a mission to find out where he was. She was determined. They had
00:39:34
tricked her. they had hidden from her and she was upset by that. And once she found David and Gail, she waited to make
00:39:40
her move. In her testimony, Lindsay told the jury that her father was quote really scared when he saw Clara's car
00:39:47
barreling toward him. She said, "I know he was trying to get away and he couldn't." Oh, that's awful. And this is
00:39:53
this will make you cry. She described what it was like when she quote felt the bumps and knew that Clara had driven
00:39:59
over her father again and again and then put the the car in reverse and hit him a
00:40:05
third time. Holy [ __ ] Like that's You see that's where like it's like the salaciousness
00:40:11
of everything. Everybody's like, "Oh my god, yeah, I get it." Blah blah blah. And then you go down this case to the
00:40:17
real [ __ ] in this case. It's like 16year-old girl. Disgusting. It's a 16-year-old girl who was brought along
00:40:25
to run over her father and now has to probably relive that at least every other day of her life. Yeah. Like that
00:40:34
is trauma that you will never unpack. Never. And she never asked for that to happen to her. And she by there's not
00:40:43
one person among us that could say that that would not affect them. No deeply. No. And I can't. That's where like
00:40:51
that's like a whole other like Clara killed somebody and then she the emotional trauma that she inflicted on
00:40:58
Lindsay. I almost wish there was a charge for that. Yeah. Honestly, but she seemed to feel remorse, I guess. As she
00:41:05
listened to Lindsay's testimony, her loud sobbing filled the courtroom to the point where she was repeatedly
00:41:10
reprimanded by the judge who eventually told her either you'll sit here in a composed manner or you will be removed
00:41:16
from the courtroom. I don't blame him. Which is like quiet down. Yeah. It's like, get it together. This isn't your
00:41:20
moment to lose your [ __ ] This Exactly. This is her moment to tell her story. Now, from the outside of the trial,
00:41:26
there was never a plan for Clara to testify on her own behalf. Uh-oh. But about a week in, she stunned everyone
00:41:34
when she insisted that she did want to testify in her own defense, despite her lawyer's own objections.
00:41:41
On the day of her testimony, George Parnum was already in a tremendous amount of stress, which was exacerbated
00:41:48
by the fact that he also had terrible flu at that time. Oh no. Flu symptoms notwithstanding, he did do his best to
00:41:54
proceed as normal when he called Clara to the stand. In her testimony, Clara said of her relationship with David, "We
00:42:02
were best friends. We were very much in love." According to her, she and her husband had been incredibly close
00:42:08
romantically and professionally all until Gail came along. In her testimony heard early in the trial, Gail had
00:42:15
explained that David told her he and Clara had an open marriage, which was the only reason she started to see him
00:42:22
to begin with. I will literally never give any ounce of credence to that. That's what every side chick is told and
00:42:32
you can't believe it. Yeah. You just can't. And honestly, if you're not having any like I don't know. It's so
00:42:39
easy for someone to say that. If you're in an open marriage, let your wife confirm it. Exactly. That's what you
00:42:44
need to say to somebody to a man or a woman who tells you that they are in an open relationship or an open marriage.
00:42:50
You want confirmation directly from their partner cuz how anybody can say that anybody take it at face value.
00:42:57
Exactly. And nine out of 10 times it's not the And also, here's where like my I'm like I call [ __ ] on that because
00:43:05
it's like she could tell that everybody in that office was uncomfortable and was
00:43:09
probably sitting there and being like like what's going on here? If they were in an open marriage then nobody would be
00:43:14
batting an eye. Exactly. Cuz he could do whatever he wanted. And also why are they sneaking around if he's in an open
00:43:19
marriage? Well, that's the thing. Did you act like that when Clara came into the office? That's the thing. It's like
00:43:22
sounds like you were sneaking around. Yeah. So, it's like if you're in an open marriage, I would assume you don't have
00:43:28
to do that. And supposedly, who knows exactly what happened that day, but supposedly when Clara went in and fired
00:43:33
her, she accused Gail of having the relationship. And Gail supposedly denied it, if that's what it in fact happened.
00:43:41
So, it's like why wouldn't you just sit there and say, "I'm so sorry. I thought you were in an open marriage. He lied to
00:43:45
both of us." Exactly. That's when you like sisters unite right there. Exactly. That's when you become a girl's girl.
00:43:50
And you say, "Holy shit." I don't think he told her that. And even if he did, I think she was naive to believe that. I
00:43:55
think so, too. Uh, that statement grew an incredible amount of sarcastic criticism from Clara, who also rejected
00:44:01
it entirely. As for the murder itself, though, Clara explained, "I was extremely upset. He
00:44:06
was holding Gail's hand the way he used to hold my hand when I was special to him." By the time she was in the car and
00:44:12
pulling out of the parking sp space, she described herself as being in a quote fog, like in a dream. She claimed that
00:44:18
she had a blackout and she wasn't in control. She said, "All of this happened in a fraction of a second. I didn't have
00:44:24
time to think." The court broke for lunch just after she walked through the events of her
00:44:29
husband's murder. And just as George Parnum stepped outside of the courtroom to get some air, he collapsed in the
00:44:34
hallway and passed out, lying on the floor for about 20 minutes before he ended up being removed by paramedics.
00:44:41
Holy [ __ ] The press immediately keyed in on that fact uh on the fact that just
00:44:47
prior to Parnham passing out, Clara had more or less confessed to murder. And people were like, "Hey, maybe those two
00:44:54
events are linked." The fact that his client just confessed to murder on the stand when he never wanted her to
00:45:00
testify at all and then he just passed out. Yeah. Yeah. So, that made the case um even more sensational, if you can
00:45:05
imagine. The judge was not very sympathetic though and considered it to be one more unprofessional stunt and a
00:45:13
series of attention grabbing moments in this case, which I don't blame her. I'd be [ __ ] pissed if that's how my
00:45:18
courtroom was going down. I'd be like, "Come on, guys. Now listen to this. On February 13th, 2003,
00:45:26
just one day before what would have been Clara and David's 11th wedding anniversary, the jury retired for
00:45:33
deliberation. Wow. How does that even happen? How does that happen? How does that even happen? That's wild. In her
00:45:41
closing statement, assistant district attorney Mia Magnus focused entirely on the evidence of the case and the rule of
00:45:47
the law. She told the jury, "If the man is cheating on you, this is exactly what
00:45:51
we're saying. You do what every other woman in this country does. You take him to the cleaners." Exactly. You don't
00:45:57
kill him. Yes. It's just That's just the That's just life, man. Yeah. You know, George Parna, meanwhile, continued his
00:46:04
attempt to frame the murder as a crime of passion. He described Gail Bridges as a home wrecker who enticed and seduced
00:46:10
David into a relationship that should never have happened. And he argued that if Clara had intended to kill her
00:46:16
husband that night, why would she have brought along his daughter knowing what she would do to traumatize the girl for
00:46:21
the rest of her life? And you would hope that's the truth that if that was a plan
00:46:26
that she wouldn't have brought. And that's the thing, maybe there's no malice of forethought there. Yeah. But
00:46:32
and he died. Well, and her saying like, you know, I was out of control of myself
00:46:36
and like blah blah blah. like, yeah, okay. But as human beings and as adults, we have to maintain to become in
00:46:44
control. It's just not an excuse to get out of control. Like, it just isn't. That's just the way we run things here.
00:46:51
Like, you can't that's that's the law. I'm sure that happened, but that's on you, man. That you didn't get into
00:46:58
control, especially with that kid in the car, right? Like, this just can't get away from that. Yeah. So the next day
00:47:06
the jury returned their verdict the day that would have been her 11th wedding anniversary which is just the irony
00:47:12
there is not lost on anyone. Darkly poetic. Yeah. They found Clara Harris guilty of the murder of her husband.
00:47:20
Later that day during the sentencing phase, Clara was asked if she had anything to say and she turned to her
00:47:25
stepdaughter Lindsay and said, "I'm sorry, Lindsay. I'm sorry, baby." Which is like you got to say a whole lot
00:47:32
more than that. That's not going to do it. That's never gonna Yeah. Yeah. At the same time, the jury had the option
00:47:38
of accepting the sudden passion defense, which carried a sentence of two to 20 years or a seconddegree murder sentence,
00:47:45
which was up to 99 years. Wo. Because the case didn't meet the special circumstances threshold, the death
00:47:50
penalty was not on the table. Before the sentence could be passed, the judge had
00:47:55
to stop the proceedings on account of Clara hysterically sobbing, which made it completely impossible for anyone in
00:48:01
the courtroom to hear anything, which once again, you have to get it together. Yeah, she has no control over. Yeah, you
00:48:07
are not in control right now when it's showing. The judge warned her, "Be quiet. I'm going to give you one more
00:48:12
chance. Don't blow it or you will be out of this courtroom." Damn. And this time,
00:48:16
her attorney, George Parnham, stood up for his client, saying she just got convicted of murder. I mean, yeah, but
00:48:22
it's like but it's still a court of did that murder. And again, as an adult, you
00:48:27
literally need to find some goddamn way to control yourself. That's the And also, like the whole thing is like you
00:48:34
have been highly emotional and out of control this entire time. It's not like you just fell apart. Like you've been
00:48:41
screaming and sobbing the whole time. Like you can't do that. Yeah, you just can't. And it's not really helping your
00:48:47
case at all. It's really not. Once the courtroom was finally back in order, the judge read the sentence that was handed
00:48:52
down from the jury. 20 years in prison with a minimum of 10 served before becoming eligible for parole, which I
00:48:59
would say is a pretty sweet [ __ ] deal. That's a pretty after running your husband over with your car multiple
00:49:05
times. Yeah, I would say so. In her statement to the press, the assistant district attorney said that she was
00:49:10
pleased with the outcome. She said after hearing all the evidence, this jury recognized the case for what it was and
00:49:16
that it is the senseless taking of a human life. their verdict recognized Mrs. Harris's conduct and they didn't
00:49:21
excuse it. I was overwhelmed with just how tragic the whole thing was and that it seemed to me the victim was getting
00:49:26
lost in the process which it I think this case was so heavily sensationalized and I'm sure the the people who could
00:49:34
relate to Clara had some kind of hatred in their heart for David. So he did very
00:49:38
much get lost in this process. I can see that for sure. And he made a bad choice
00:49:41
by stepping out on his wife and he made a bad choice of bad choices by stepping out on his family and not ending the
00:49:47
relationship. But he was also a human being. He was also a father. And you can't just kill people because they hurt
00:49:54
your feelings. Because they hurt your feelings. And that that really does come down to that. No matter how much they
00:49:59
hurt your feelings. His life should have been a little more precious than that. Yeah. It was Yeah. It's just not The
00:50:07
punishment for cheating is not death. It just isn't. No. I know it feels like when you're on the other side of it that
00:50:14
maybe that's that feels like it should be the punishment. But the reality of the situation is it's not. It's just
00:50:20
not. Yeah. So, a year after the sentence was passed, Clara did appeal the verdict
00:50:25
uh to the court of appeals for the first district of Texas on the grounds that among other things, the judge didn't
00:50:30
allow the inclusion of two videotapes showing the murder and the fact that the judge refused to impeach a witness who
00:50:36
they thought lied on the stand. But on all points, the appeals court sided with the trial judge, finding it was
00:50:42
reasonable to defer to experts in excluding the tapes and deferring to the judge's judgment when it came to witness
00:50:49
testimony. In their conclusion, they said, "We note that even if the appalent were correct in her interpretation of
00:50:54
the law, she could not show harm. Therefore, the order of the argument did not disadvantage Appalent in meeting her
00:51:00
burden." So they said, "Stay in jail. Stay in jail. Stay in jail." In 2018, in May of 2018, after serving 15 years of
00:51:09
her 20-year sentence, Clara Harris was released on parole. In the years since her release, she has completed the terms
00:51:15
of her probation and has concluded her obligation to the state. She is now a free woman. Wow. And hopefully doesn't
00:51:23
drive around often. Yeah. And maintains her control. Yeah. I mean, she hasn't popped up in the news again, so that's
00:51:31
good. So, there's that. Yeah. But I just what a devastating tale. Truly. Yeah. I
00:51:38
feel the most for Lindsay. Yeah. And then their other two children who not only lost their father but then lost
00:51:45
their mother for 15 years. That's the thing. Like they grew up without two parents. Yeah. They absolutely did. And
00:51:51
that's awful. No matter if she regretted it or not. Yeah. Like everyone loses in
00:51:56
this scenario. Everyone lost. Clara lost. She lost her freedom which she should have. for the time being. Lindsay
00:52:02
lost her dad and a stepmom who she actually really liked up until that point. And those twins lost both their
00:52:10
parents. And the Harris has lost their son. Yeah. And somehow stood by Clara, which I just really commend them for
00:52:16
that. That's that's big people. Yeah. Like that's what a devastating case. That's just everyone so layered.
00:52:24
Everyone just And it's very interesting to see how everybody had their own two cents, you know. Yeah, even us. Even us,
00:52:32
you know, we've always got our own two cents. We've always got our own two cents. Four cents right here. Yep.
00:52:36
That's right. Well, with that being said, we definitely hope you keep listening. Yeah. And we hope you keep it
00:52:42
weird. And tell us your two cents. Yeah. I want to know what you think. [Music] [Music]
00:53:23
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