00:00:00
Hey weirdos. I'm Elina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. [Music] >> Oh my god. I've done this before. I have
00:00:20
also done this before a few times. >> Oh, it's like dja vu. >> Dja vu all over again.
00:00:28
What's up, girl? >> Um, I actually Mikey thought of a very funny thing that I forgot to mention in
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our last episode. >> Oh my god. Y'all, please please go forth and conquer. >> This is just a um it continuation.
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>> If I had shame, this would be embarrassing, but I don't. >> No, I don't think it's embarrassing at
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all. Even if you did have shame, I think this is so funny. >> It's pretty funny. So, we told you guys
00:00:52
last in the bonus episode that we got to go to New York with Sirius XM and we got
00:00:57
to like do advertising week for a couple days there. It was a lot of fun and met
00:01:02
a lot of cool people and >> shortcuts 19 items voice guide off. >> What? >> Accessibility off.
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Yo, girl, it's not your pod. >> Keep it in. >> That was the television. >> That was I hit the remote by accident,
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>> guys. Old Morbid is just coming at you live without us even trying. >> It's just organically happening.
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>> We would have gotten fired for that before, but now it can be left in. would have seen some consequences for
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that one. But we're gonna leave that one in. >> Yeah. >> Uh because you know what? You know who
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else I saw at AD week? >> Yes. >> Um it was Al [ __ ] Ro. >> I was going to say the exact same thing.
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first name Al and the middle name [ __ ] >> I was in this I got my microphone put on
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and then I was standing in this tiny little al cove like a hallway >> and Ash was in this little closet
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getting her microphone put on and he walked he like brushed by like right there and I literally just like I put my
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hand out like I didn't touch him don't worry. Uh but I like I I was like I rested my hand upon Alro's shoulder. Oh,
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I did not touch him. But I said, "I love El Roker." And I said it in his eyes, >> his face,
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>> eyes on eyes. Like we locked Roker >> eyes. He locked eyes on me. I locked eyes on him. And I said, "I love Al
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Roker." >> Right in his my face said it into his face. It was we had we were connected in
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that moment. And he go and then I was like, "Oh my god." I just said, "I love Al Roker to Alroker." in my head. I said
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>> at least you said more than I did in my little al cove closet. I just went Al
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Roker. >> I just said I love Al Roker to his face and he said, "Thank you so much." And he
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put his hand on his he was very he was touched by my incompetence. And so he >> Do you have a hole in your
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>> I do. I just figured that out and now I can't stop. I'm I'm so upset about it.
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>> Yeah. You can change them if you need to. >> I might change them. I get it. >> I don't think I can handle this.
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>> I understand. [Music] She fixed her [ __ ] So, I fixed my socks. And uh but yeah, it was a real
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moment. And when he when he walked away, I said I said, "So nice to meet you." And he said, "You, too." And then we
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kept walking. >> I didn't even hear that part. >> And I said, "I can't believe that was
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the interaction I had with that." It felt right. >> It did. It really felt right. I don't
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think I could I don't know what else I would have said. >> Al Roker is adorable.
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>> I love Al Roker. I've loved El Roker since I was like born. >> That's the thing. I was like, "This is a
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deep love." And I >> I don't feel like I can just say like, "Wow." And I felt weird being like,
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"Wow, I love you." Like I weird. So I saying I love Al Roker to Al Roker is much better.
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>> I love it. I mean, the first time I met Andrew McMahon when I was 14 years old,
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he had lost his voice and I literally just said, "I love you." And he was like, he nodded emphatically. He was
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like, "Wow, I wish we have yet to tell that story to his face." >> He was like, "Wow, 15 years later, I'll
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meet you and it will be a lot different. You'll be a little more normal." >> A little more.
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>> Just a smidge. >> Oh, we we have to tell that story to his face someday. >> I think we took I think we did.
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>> I don't think we did cuz you were too stressed up. >> Was I too embarrassed by that?
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>> We can't tell him that story. It >> was a little embarrassing. >> And I wasn't going to out you like that.
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>> I thought we told him. >> No, I don't think we have yet. >> Andrew, >> no. But
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>> question mark. >> We'll let him know. >> Well, yeah. >> All right. >> So many. It's so good to be happy.
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>> That was It is nice to be to be happy and filled, you know, all that stuff. But
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>> it is October. >> October. >> It's Proctober. It's not Proctober. Last last. >> Yeah. I was like, what is Proctober?
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It's October. And so we're gonna have a lot of spooky stuff. And this is one of them.
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This is also a little too grimy. Um, it's got a lot of different elements to it.
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>> You get the best of both worlds. >> Precisely. So, I think I think you're really going to like it. Uh, this is
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Esther Cox and the great Amherst mystery. >> Oo. >> Also, are you five? Are you a 13year-old boy?
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It was just funny. All right. A 13-year-old boy has entered the chat. It was just we're in a goofy mood. We
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went with the tone. >> All right. So, we're going to we're going to get into this. Okay.
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>> All right. >> Get your spooky pants on. >> Girl, they stay on. >> They are on all year round.
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>> Girl, my pants are always spooky. >> So, let's talk about who Esther Cox was.
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And now this is a great >> I'm gonna have to say this a lot. It's a great drag name. All right.
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Hello. So, let's talk about who Hello. So, let's talk about who Esther Cox was. >> Let's
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>> So, Esther was born on March 28th, 1860 in upper Stewak. I looked up how to say
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it. Stewie. Um, it's an unincorporated region of southeastern Nova Scotia. >> Nova Scotia. There you go. Uh just a few
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weeks after she was born though, tragedy struck because her mom died of an undisclosed illness which is really sad.
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>> Oh damn. Only a few. Yeah. Damn. >> Years after that, Esther's father, Archabald, which is a great name.
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>> Archie. >> Archabald. He remarried and he moved the family to East Machias. I looked up how
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to say that as well. That's in Maine. Um that was to live with his new wife. So they all moved in with a new wife.
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>> I hope she was nice. Um there was there's really like almost no account of Esther's life as a child because
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remember it's in the 1860s. Um but it is known that her father eventually married
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a third time and that was followed by another move. >> Dang, daddy. >> Um because of all these major events
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happening in relatively quick succession, it would be pretty fair to say that her childhood was a lot of
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upheaval. A lot, you know, I mean, it wasn't very consistent. >> Yeah. In the summer of 1878, she was 18
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years old and was living in Amherst, Nova Scotia, in the home of her sister, Olive and Olive's husband, Daniel Te.
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>> I think Olive is the cutest name ever. >> Very cute name. Um, also in the home at
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this time, um, were Olive and Daniel's two children, 5-year-old Willie and one-year-old George. Oh.
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>> And Olive and Esther's sister, Jenny. So, it was a full house. >> Yeah. A whole shebang.
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>> Yeah. Daniel was a shoemaker and a foreman at the local factory and he was very widely respected around town. Um,
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they weren't super wealthy, but they were definitely comfortable financially. Author Walter Hubble wrote, "He never
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owed a dollar to anyone if he could pay it and never allowed his family to want for any comfort that could be provided
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by his hard-earned salary." All right. >> So, he was just a good provider. >> Yeah.
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>> Um, in fact, as far as anyone could tell, the house was really happy. It was filled with mutual support and they all
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kind of just pitched in whenever they could. It was like a really good little family in there.
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>> Yeah, it sounds like it. >> Now, around town, 22year-old Jenny Cox, the sister, was considered the quote
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village bell. Stop it. She was an unmarried woman of what was said to be considerable beauty. Um, Hubble
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described her as quote quite a beauty with light brown hair, eyes of grayish blue, and handsome teeth. Handsome
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teeth. Girl, your teeth is handsome and handsome teeth. >> What is that? That's the first thing you
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said to Drew. >> Yeah, he I said, "You have handsome teeth, sir." >> I love Drew's teeth.
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>> Yeah, I do, too. >> Yeah. As soon as I saw him, he smiled and I said, "Wow, great."
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>> Great teeth. >> Yeah. And I I st I remained I stand on that business. >> 10 toes down. Although we did find out
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that you don't stand 10 toes down. >> I did a foot thing. Literally, we literally like did a foot thing at
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Klehan when it like measures your feet. >> Actually, I do stand 10 toes down. >> Oh, was it Debbie that did it?
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>> Yeah, I think I did. >> I think you Yeah, you I stand all on my toes. >> Oh, you are always 10 toes down. Debbie
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was not 10 toes down. She was two toes down. >> Yeah, she was on her heels. >> I don't remember if I was 10 pounds toes
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down to so handsome teeth. >> Yeah. you know, um Esther on the other hand was, you know, she wasn't
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conventional beauty standards did not apply. >> Well, you know what? Conventional beauty
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standards be damned. >> Yeah. She was shorter. You know, she had eyes that Hubble described as
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as though constantly asking, "Why do you look at me?" Quote, "I cannot help being
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unlike other people." >> That's how he wrote it. >> I kind of get it. I cannot help being
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unlike other people. Honestly, valid. >> What What does that look like? Exactly.
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I'm really trying to like >> I'm trying to feel that wash over me. >> You just kind of look like a [ __ ] when
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you do that. >> I mean, that is kind of like, "What the [ __ ] are you looking at?"
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>> But was it like what the [ __ ] are you looking at? Or was it like, "Oh, don't
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look at me." I don't know. I'd like to think that she's like, "What the [ __ ] are you looking at?" Like the [ __ ]
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Yeah. But what Esther may have lacked in the conventional beauty side, she more than made up for in reputation and
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general being disposition. She was nice. She was a very hard worker. Um, she really liked housework, was very good at
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it. Other domestic chores she was really good at. She was always willing to lend
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a hand to help out anyone, especially her sister with any of the domestic responsibilities. She was helpful. She
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was kind. Um, and she wasn't just popular in her home, she was popular with her peers as well. In his account
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of the Amherst mystery, Hubble claims Esther quote had numbers of friends her own age and was always in demand among
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the little children of the neighborhood. So, she was also very kind with kids. >> That's cute.
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>> Um, and they knew that she would always make time to play with them, which is
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that's a good person. >> Yeah, that absolutely is. All things considered, Esther had what most around
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Amherst would have considered a good, you know, but simple life. >> Yeah. Her popularity with her peers and
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others in town. Aside life in Amherst at the end of the 19th century was like not
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super exciting for teenage girls, I would say. >> Yeah. >> Uh there was monotony with household
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chores and scheduled trips to church. The most excitement Esther was likely to see was when 5-year-old Willie would get
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in trouble with his mother for harassing the chickens in the yard by chasing them
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with a small club or throwing rocks at them. We should probably talk a little bit deeper about that.
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>> Thank you. My thoughts here are are should we go into Willie and the fact that he may be a little bit of a
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psychopath? Like is that something we should maybe look into? >> Me thinks >> I don't know. In the evenings when the
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men would come home from work at the factories, you know, they would come home, they would get dinner, and then
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the women were expected to clean it all up. So, they cooked the dinner, cleaned it all up.
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>> [ __ ] >> Uh Hubble wrote, "One day was so like another that the week slipped away
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without perceptible difference, which is like, wo, >> that's sad." >> As one of Canada's most famous ghost
00:12:26
stories, the story of the great Hamhurst mystery has been told a lot of times over the last century.
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>> I don't think I've heard it. >> Yeah, it's it's a big story up in Canada. Um, but no matter how or when
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it's told, it always begins the same way with one exciting evening that took a very terrible and very heartbreaking
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turn. >> Oh no. >> According to Esther's brother-in-law, Daniel, on the afternoon of August 28th,
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1878, Esther agreed to go for a carriage ride into the Tantramar Marsh with Bob McNeel. He was a local man who,
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according to Daniel, quote, had been paying her much attention. The plan was that they were going to drive through
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town and then come back to the house a short time later. But halfway through their ride, McNeel changed course and
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drove the wagon towards an isolated grove of trees. >> Uh Daniel said when they had reached the
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grove, McNeel dropped the res, leaped from the bug buggy, and drawing a large revolver from the side pocket of his
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coat, pointed it at her heart, and commanded her to get out of the buggy or else he would kill her where she sat.
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>> What the [ __ ] Now, what happened next is not exactly known like the details of
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obviously McNeel either robbed Esther at gunpoint or he sexually assaulted her or
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both. >> Yeah. >> Um it seems like the consensus was that she was absolutely assaulted.
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>> Mhm. >> Um in Hubble's account of the events supposedly told to him by Daniel Teed,
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her brother-in-law, it was nothing. It was he claims that it was nothing more than aggressive threats.
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>> Doubt it. Hubble wrote, "She was very much frightened, but refused to leave the buggy, telling him to get in and
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drive her home and not act like a madman." McNeel made more threats, but when he heard the sound of another buggy
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coming down the path, he got back in and drove Esther home without further incident.
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>> Oh, I didn't see that coming. >> Yeah. So, he drove her home. When she arrived home, Esther was soaking wet
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and, according to Daniel, quote, in a hysterical condition from excitement. >> Yeah. So, I would say that she probably
00:14:27
didn't just sit on the buggy. >> No, definitely not. The next day, Bob McNeel left town and was never seen
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again. >> Wow. >> So, he definitely assaulted her. >> Yeah. >> There appears to be little information
00:14:38
known about Bob Bob McNeel and since he ran away and never came back. Like many of the young men in Amherst, he was a
00:14:44
shoe maker. He worked at the shoe factory managed by Daniel Teed. And according to Hubble, he was a very
00:14:50
average height and weight, had black hair and eyes, and wore a mustache. >> Wore a mustache.
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>> He just like he was that guy. He was that 1800s guy wearing mustaches. >> He I to me he seems like he looks like
00:15:04
every other 1800's guy. Uh Hubble describes him as quote fine looking. >> Fine. >> Just fine looking.
00:15:10
>> Fine. >> But when it came to his personality, not so fine. Uh those who knew him
00:15:16
described him as a quote rather a wild fellow and he had a very cruel disposition.
00:15:21
>> Yeah. I'm sure in his childhood he was known to, and this is a big trigger warning for animal cruelty,
00:15:29
I'm sorry about it ahead of time, so you can skip probably 10 seconds if you want
00:15:34
to. >> Yeah, do 30 just to be safe. >> You might as well just Yeah. Um, in his childhood, Bob was known to quote skin
00:15:40
cats alive and allow them to run about and suffer in that condition until death came to their relief.
00:15:46
>> How dare you [ __ ] say that to me? >> I told you I can't leave. my jaw. >> I know.
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>> Oh, that's No, I hope Oh, I hope the same happened to him. I hope he's in hell and it's happening to him all the
00:16:00
time. >> Well, I mean, and Esther didn't know this about him, obviously, like his
00:16:04
childhood [ __ ] And she So, she had always kind of been fond of him, like she found him attractive, you know? We
00:16:09
We all fall for [ __ ] sometimes. Oh, yeah. >> Um, but what happened in that grove,
00:16:14
whatever it was that happened in that grove that night changed everything. It changed her forever. Oh,
00:16:20
>> now Esther's experience with Bob had clearly deeply shaken her. And in the days after it, she was depressed. She
00:16:26
was very anxious. Like clearly something bad happened. It wasn't just threats. >> On the evening of September 4th, she
00:16:32
helped her sister with the household chores. Then around 7:00 p.m., she said she wasn't feeling that great and went
00:16:38
to bed to lie down. Jenny arrived home a few hours later and went up to bed. Uh it was the room she shared with Esther.
00:16:45
And less than an hour had passed when Jenny was jolted out of sleep because Esther was screaming.
00:16:50
>> What? >> She said she could feel something moving in the mattress. >> What? >> Jenny jumped up and lit the lamp and the
00:16:56
girls inspected every inch of the bed, but they found nothing. >> Okay, >> so this scene replayed itself the next
00:17:03
night with Jenny being woken up by Esther screaming at the top of her lungs. So she's thinking it might be a
00:17:09
mouse. So they light the lamp again, investigate the room, and find nothing. They even pulled out all the boxes from
00:17:16
under the bed. And while they were standing in the middle of the room, Jenny and Esther watched as one of the
00:17:20
boxes they' pulled out from under the bed that contained quilts seemed to jump up and dump its contents onto the floor.
00:17:28
What this caused Esther and Jenny to scream a second time, which drew Daniel from his bedroom. Esther and Jenny
00:17:35
explained what they saw, but Daniel just laughed at them. And after pushing everything under the bed, he was like,
00:17:40
"That was a bad dream." Bye. >> Yeah. Like this is don't waste my time. >> This is a lot.
00:17:44
>> The next night, Jenny was woken again from sleep for a third night in a row by
00:17:49
Esther's screams. And she was screaming, "Wake up. I'm dying." >> Oh, [ __ ] >> Not wanting to cause another scene,
00:17:56
Jenny replied, "It's a nightmare." Cuz she's like, >> "This is the third night in a row. You
00:18:00
got to go to sleep." >> But she did get up and light the oil lamp. She was like, "It's a nightmare.
00:18:04
Like, not a big deal." But as soon as the room was lit, Jenny could see her sister standing in the center of the
00:18:09
room, and her appearance was terrifying. Her entire body was rigid and contorted,
00:18:15
and her face was bright red, and her eyes appeared to be bulging out of her head.
00:18:21
>> "What the fuck?" >> And she was gripping the back of a chair so hard her fingernails left impressions
00:18:26
in the wood. >> What? >> So Jenny again screamed for Daniel and Olive, and they burst in a minute later.
00:18:33
And as they burst in, Daniel and Olive managed to catch a glimpse of Esther's twisted body just before she went
00:18:40
completely white and collapsed on the floor. Okay. Daniel helped her get back to her feet and back to bed, but she had
00:18:47
barely laid down before she was on her feet again, screaming that she quote felt as though she was about to burst
00:18:53
into pieces. Oh, which is so [ __ ] scary. >> I just picture like ready or not, >> right? They helped her to bed a second
00:19:01
time, but all three couldn't help but notice that she looked like she was swelling up like right in front of them.
00:19:08
>> When she's saying, "I'm going to burst into pieces." And now she's swelling. >> This is horrifying. I've never heard
00:19:13
anything like this. >> Daniel said to uh Olive, "Lay your hand on her. She's as hot as fire."
00:19:18
>> "What?" >> Olive had barely reached out her hand when out of nowhere, the house started
00:19:24
shaking violently as though it had been struck by lightning. >> No. And they heard a loud bang come from
00:19:29
underneath the bed. >> No. >> Then just as suddenly as it all started, the chaos just abruptly ended and the
00:19:35
house was quiet and Esther's appearance returned to normal. A little pale, but normal.
00:19:40
>> Little pale. >> A little pale. She didn't look great. Little uh lost a little color. Yeah, she
00:19:45
lost a little color. >> What? >> Yeah. Hello. Right now, the next day, Esther slept later than usual. She got
00:19:53
out of bed a little past 9:00 a.m. >> Crazy. But otherwise, she looked and felt normal, and it didn't seem as
00:19:59
though there were any lingering effects to whatever had struck her the night before. Later that day, the family sat
00:20:06
around the dinner table discussing what the [ __ ] happened that because this wasn't something Luckily, this isn't one
00:20:11
of those stories where there's like, "Wow, I guess we should just move on and never talk about that." No, they sat at
00:20:15
dinner and they were like, "So, what the [ __ ] was that last night? Like, what's
00:20:18
going on?" And they were like, "What should we do about this?" >> Yeah. Like, why does this keep
00:20:22
happening? But the conversation kind of just went nowhere cuz like what do you do?
00:20:27
>> They all agree no one would would believe their story if they told it. And even if they did again, what would
00:20:32
anyone do about it? >> Yeah. [Music] So days passed with no other activity. But one night in midepptember, Esther
00:20:52
was getting ready for bed when she began to feel hot. Fearing again that this could be happening again, she managed to
00:20:59
make it to the bed and wake Jenny before she felt her body go rigid and start to
00:21:03
swell again. >> Oh no. >> Moments later, Jenny was by her side trying to speak softly and like just
00:21:08
trying to calm her down and like telling her to like please remain calm. Um and she was like hopefully this is just
00:21:14
going to pass really quickly. Esther did as her sister suggested. So she tried to
00:21:18
just remain still. Yeah, >> but because it only seemed to make things worse somehow.
00:21:27
>> So, she's laying and Esther and Jenny watched in amazement as the blankets and
00:21:31
sheets started stripping themselves from the bed, landing across the room in a pile by the door.
00:21:37
>> Mhm. >> Like just flinging across the room. The experience clearly was terrifying. So,
00:21:43
both of them just start screaming because they don't know what else to do. Just before Jenny fainted beside
00:21:49
Esther's bed. >> Oh wow. >> Now, as they had before, Esther and Jenny screams brought the rest of the
00:21:54
family running into the room, and they found Jenny collapsed and unconscious on the floor beside Esther, who was now
00:22:00
laying unmoving and swollen on her bed. What the hell is happening here? >> They saw that the sheets and blankets
00:22:07
were all in a heap on the floor. And this was very nice of them. Not wanting her sisters to be exposed in in their
00:22:14
underclo. >> Olive grabbed the blankets and placed one on Esther and another on Jenny. But
00:22:19
as soon as she laid them across them, the blankets flew up into the air and across the room again. They said, "No
00:22:25
comforts for you." >> They said, "No, your under will be seen. Your underoos underpants."
00:22:31
>> Now, after the But after after the underpants were exposed, you're so good at that. Underpants.
00:22:39
>> Underpants. After they were exposed again, there was a series of loud bangs, all seeming to
00:22:46
come from under the bed again and all loud enough to shake the entire room. >> This man's under the bed.
00:22:52
>> Jesus. Then like before, everything came to an abrupt stop. And Esther regained
00:22:57
her composure and her appearance was once again relatively normal. Probably a little pale, you know, and Jenny
00:23:04
regained consciousness, though she said she had a fierce headache. >> I mean, I would think. Now, Daniel Teed
00:23:09
had no [ __ ] clue what was happening in his house at this point. >> A bunch of tom foolery that he
00:23:15
>> bunch of [ __ ] chicainery. >> Yeah. >> Uh but at the very least, he knew it was
00:23:19
having a physical effect on Esther. Um and had begun to affect Jenny at this point as well. So concerned for them, he
00:23:26
went into town the next day and spoke to Dr. Carrie, the town physician. >> Mhm.
00:23:31
>> Um as he'd expected, the doctor didn't believe the story at all. Stevens even
00:23:36
laughed in his face about it, which I was like, I don't know if you had to do that.
00:23:39
>> That's a little bit rude. >> I don't know. Is that part of your oath? What? >> Probably. Did they take the oath back
00:23:44
then? >> Probably. It's pretty old. Hypocratic oath. >> It's [ __ ] old. >> Um, but still, Dr. Karp agreed to pay a
00:23:51
visit to the house the next afternoon, but added that quote, "What Daniel had told him was nonsense, and that he quote
00:23:57
knew no such tom foolery would occur while he was in the house. [ __ ] I done told you." Dr. Karee arrived at the teed
00:24:04
house the next day and examined Esther. At the time she was showing no signs of swelling, muscle rigidity or tremors
00:24:11
that they'd talked about the previous night, but she was feeling kind of shitty, like just unwell.
00:24:16
>> Well, she also hasn't been sleeping. >> Yeah. And after looking at her over and
00:24:20
asking a few questions, Dr. Karite concluded Esther quote seemed to be suffering from nervous excitement and
00:24:26
had evidently received a tremendous shock of some kind. >> Okay, it's basically what they would
00:24:32
always say. They're like, "Oh, this woman's hysterical." >> Yep. She's got the vapors.
00:24:36
>> She's got nervous excitement this one. She's just been doing too much. The doctor had just finished delivering this
00:24:41
[ __ ] diagnosis to the family when without warning, the pillow where Esther was laying came out from under her and
00:24:48
flew across the room and it looked like it as if it was pulled from by someone invisible out from under her.
00:24:55
>> Um, I like to think it was Esther. as soon as this doctor turned around just [ __ ] launched that pillow at his head
00:25:02
because I probably would. >> Uh, but no sooner had they put the pillow back under Esther's head, it flew
00:25:07
out from her a second time, leaving Dr. Karee completely stunned. >> The doctor jumped up from his chair, but
00:25:15
was quickly caught off guard by the sound of loud thumps coming from somewhere in the room. Before he could
00:25:21
say anything, the sheets and blankets that had been covering Esther then flew off and landed in a pile again. And the
00:25:27
activity was followed by an awful sound of metallic grinding that filled the room.
00:25:33
>> Mhm. >> Everyone in the room stared at each other like, "What the [ __ ] is going on?"
00:25:37
hearing this like metallic grinding sound which would sound so scary in that moment having no like origin,
00:25:45
>> right? >> And just shit's flying around the room. >> Well, then it's and this this is what is
00:25:51
documented about it. Then they watched in absolute amazement as writing began to appear on the wall above Esther's
00:25:58
head and it said, "Esther Cox, you are mine to kill." >> What? >> Yeah. Exclamation point.
00:26:06
>> Of course. >> Uh uh. What? >> What? What? >> Hello. >> So, obviously everyone freaked the [ __ ]
00:26:13
out. And this isn't one of those situations where everyone was like, "Esther Cox, you are mine to kill." Oh
00:26:20
no, what happened? No, they scattered everywhere. They all just went [ __ ] running. They were like, "Fuck that.
00:26:25
>> I'd run." >> They were checking on the children cuz remember there's children in this house.
00:26:28
>> Oh, probably >> checking on the children, looking for any sign of who could have written those
00:26:32
words. And they were unable to find any evidence that anyone else in the house wrote it. When they returned to Esther's
00:26:38
bedroom, a large chunk of plaster fell from the ceiling, just missing the doctor and landing at his feet. What the
00:26:46
[ __ ] is happening? To their amazement, Esther was still asleep at this point in
00:26:50
her bed, >> completely oblivious to all of it. >> Said, "I got to catch these these where
00:26:54
I can get them." >> That's I mean, I get that, girl. >> Said, "Honey." >> So, the doctor returned to the house the
00:26:59
next day to see Esther, who appeared to be completely unaffected by everything that had happened, but she was
00:27:05
definitely more nervous than usual and would quote jump at any noise. >> Um, because somebody said that they were
00:27:11
going to kill her. >> I mean, there's that. The doctor returned several times in the weeks
00:27:15
after this during all which he would witness a variety of strange things like flying objects, loud noises heard from
00:27:23
all over the house. Eventually, the loud thumping thumping sounds became so loud
00:27:27
and lasted so long they could be heard from outside the house. >> These poor kids were probably so scared.
00:27:34
One reporter wrote, because this was like in newspapers, one reporter wrote, "Passerby stopped to listen." And the
00:27:41
next day, the town buzzed with the story of the haunted house. >> What? >> So, other people are hearing this.
00:27:46
>> Okay. >> Despite all the attention Esther was getting from the people of Amherst, it
00:27:50
seemed that no one, including Dr. Karite, was able to explain what the [ __ ] was happening to Esther and why.
00:27:55
>> Yeah. >> In early October, Dr. Edwin Clay, the lo local Baptist minister, visited the
00:28:01
house and examined Esther. He couldn't find any obvious explanation for the haunting and he concluded Esther quote
00:28:07
must be possessed of an extraordinary amount of electrical power. >> Uh, okay. Nailed it.
00:28:14
>> He said, "This [ __ ] is the grid." >> That the grid right here. >> Dr. Ced agreed. He was like, "Absolutely
00:28:20
>> the grid." >> Yes, the grid. Um, he was like, "You know what? The discharge of such great
00:28:27
electricity must be the cause of the flying objects, the loud noises and the physical symptoms that
00:28:32
>> the weird writing on the wall that was saw that said it was going to kill her.
00:28:35
>> When it came to what to do though, they had no [ __ ] clue. They were just like
00:28:40
electricity. See you later. Good luck. >> That was it. >> Now, in time, Esther and T and the
00:28:46
Teed's house became the biggest story in Amherst. Crowds gathered outside the house trying to gain any kind of glimpse
00:28:53
at any of the paranormal stuff going on or hear any of the noises. Eventually, the audiences became so large that
00:28:59
Daniel Teed couldn't disperse them on his own and he had to call the police. At the same time, Esther's physical
00:29:05
health continued to decline. In December, she came down with dtheria and was confined to her bed for 2 weeks.
00:29:12
During this time, the activity ceased entirely. Huh. Once she was recovered, she went to
00:29:18
visit another sister who lived in Sackville, New Brunswick for two weeks. The entire time she was away, nothing
00:29:24
unusual happened at the teet house. Based on that, everyone concluded, which I get, that whatever was happening, it
00:29:33
must have been focused entirely on Esther. >> Yeah. That being said, while she was
00:29:37
away in Sackville, Esther herself didn't experience any unusual phenomenon, and she said she was free from physical pain
00:29:44
that had been inflicted on her for 3 months at this point. >> Yeah. >> So, when Esther returned to the house
00:29:50
after being away for a few weeks, everyone hoped the ghost or demon or whatever the [ __ ] this thing was,
00:29:55
>> the grid >> would have been left behind. uh just in case while she was away, Jenny and Olive relocated Esther and
00:30:02
Jenny's bedroom to the other side of the house, hoping the new location might also aid in keeping this away.
00:30:08
>> Yeah. >> Unfortunately, it didn't take long for them to realize that all of these hopes
00:30:12
and all these efforts had been in vain because not only did it return the activity with Esther, it was stronger
00:30:19
and more aggressive than it had ever been. >> Oh [ __ ] The first night she was back in
00:30:23
her own bed, Esther told Jenny she could hear a voice talking to her, and she believed it was the spirit who'd been
00:30:28
tormenting her. The disembodied voice told Esther, quote, "It had once lived on the earth, but had been dead for some
00:30:35
years and was now only a ghost." It's kind of metal, very metal. And maybe more disturbing was the fact that
00:30:41
according to the spirit, the house was going to be set on fire that night by another ghost who haunted the property.
00:30:47
It It went too far. So, this ghost is spilling the tea. >> He said, "My guy over here."
00:30:53
>> He said, "You know what? I heard >> big arsonist." >> You know what I heard them talking about
00:30:56
at the water cooler? Water cooler. >> Uh, so that's scary. So, Esther and Jenny informed the rest of the
00:31:03
household, "Hey, our house is going to be lit on fire by uh >> a water cooler ghost,
00:31:07
>> an acquaintance of the ghost that is currently haunting us." >> Uh, but everyone just laughed at her,
00:31:12
which I was like, I don't know. At this point, maybe. Yeah, that's it. like you've seen miraculous things happen and
00:31:17
now she's telling you fire is going to >> happen. They were all like no this is crazy it's going too far. Uh none of
00:31:22
them you know had been able to explain what they had seen or heard in the house but they firmly believed in Dr. Karite
00:31:28
and re Reverend Clay's explanation that it was just stored up energy and there was nothing to be scared of that they
00:31:35
took that as like that's the that's the answer >> babble. According to Hubble, as they all
00:31:39
stood together in the bedroom trying to calm Esther and Jenny, they quote, "All saw a lighted match fall from the
00:31:46
ceiling to the bed having come out of the air." What? I'm Okay, here's the thing. I'm
00:31:52
going to be honest with you. I'm trying to figure out how they could pull this off.
00:31:55
>> Yeah. >> And I can't And they're all quite figure it out. >> These people are like the rest of the
00:32:01
family is like calling the police when people show up and stuff. Like they they don't want big crowds like and they're
00:32:06
not enjoying this, >> but they're all saying they're seeing this. >> Yeah. >> Like and Jenny luckily acted really
00:32:15
quickly to like uh distinguish the mass, but that isn't extinguish. That's what it is. Why did I say she could not tell
00:32:22
what the fire was? >> It says it says distinguish. So you are not the only one. Um, so Jenny acted
00:32:28
really quickly and extinguished the match just as it hit the bed clothes because it would have lit the whole bed
00:32:33
on fire. So it would have lit the house on fire. >> Yeah. >> Now, regardless of what the rest of the
00:32:37
family believed, Esther and Jenny were convinced that the thing that tormented them was a [ __ ] ghost. Uh, also
00:32:44
they believed that it had its own kind of sentience and could hear and see everything that happened in the house.
00:32:50
And if that were true, Jenny thought, then it logically followed that they could potentially communicate back with
00:32:55
it. >> Yeah. If it can see us and it's telling us things, why can't we tell it things?
00:32:59
>> Yeah. >> So upon suggesting this very thing to Dr. Karite, the statement was immediately followed by three loud
00:33:07
knocks from the floor. >> It said, "Hey, what's good?" >> It's like, it's like the spirit was
00:33:12
like, "Hell yeah, brother." >> Um, in response, Dr. Kit asked whether the spirit could hear and understand
00:33:19
what they were saying, and the question was heard with more loud knocks. What followed was a series of questions from
00:33:25
the family which were answered by the spirit. >> He said, "I I have what you need."
00:33:30
>> There were different kind they tried to get like a system going where it was like one knock for no, three knocks for
00:33:35
yes kind of thing. >> Um it was able to answer various yes or no questions indicating how many rooms
00:33:40
there were in the house and provide several other responses that supported Esther and Jenny's belief that it was
00:33:47
more than just discharged energy. When Daniel asked whether the house was really going to be set on fire, the
00:33:54
spirit gave three knocks, which is Yes. >> Hell yeah, brother. >> Immediately after, the stunned family
00:33:58
members watched as a dress flew from the closet and landed under the bed where it
00:34:03
just caught fire >> by completely unknown means. >> Sporadically. >> Sporadically combusted.
00:34:10
>> Um, okay. Just all up in there. >> All righty. Fortunately, Daniel was able to remove the dress from the bed and
00:34:17
extinguish those flames as well before any damage to the house was done. Now, perhaps the most like interesting and
00:34:26
curious aspect of the whole situation was >> the wild shifts in temperament from one
00:34:32
moment to the next because at some point the spirit communication was calm and very even and it came off like kind of
00:34:40
benevolent and helpful at times. Um, like it would warn the family me like when it warned the family members about
00:34:46
the fire or it would warn them about something else. Other times though it seemed to mock them all writing cruel
00:34:52
and profane messages on the wall or seizing Esther with seizures and stomach pains that lasted for days.
00:34:58
>> Yeah, >> it feels like there was two like that ghost was saying >> like when they when she claimed she
00:35:04
heard it talking to her that there's another one. >> Good cop kind of thing. Now outside the
00:35:09
teed house, the neighbors were beginning to arrive at their own conclusions about
00:35:12
the haunting. Some accepted the girl story entirely, believing the house was beset upon by ghosts. Others put the
00:35:19
theory forth that Karite and Clay seemed plausible, like the electrical energy idea.
00:35:26
>> Okay. >> But then there was another group who was very skeptical and found the whole thing
00:35:31
completely impossible, >> which I get. >> Absolutely. They believe that rather than being tormented by ghosts, Esther
00:35:36
was being tormented by a human being, specifically Bob McNeel. Where's he at? So, one reporter wrote, "Some say that
00:35:45
the controlling agent in these phenomena is not a spirit, but a young man who is
00:35:49
in a distant part of the province." According to the that journalist, the individual is quote a person whom Esther
00:35:56
has regarded with a strong dislike and prior to her illness, he is said to have talked to her in such a violent and
00:36:03
extraordinary way as to cause her much alarm and leave a vivid impression on her mind.
00:36:07
>> Yeah, he just talked to her, you guys. He just talked to her crazy. >> All things considered, the people of
00:36:13
Amhurst had pretty good reason to be skeptical of the whole thing. Of course, if she had just been like a victim of
00:36:19
the strange events happening in the house, that would be one thing, but she kind of was part of it a little bit
00:36:25
passively at times, like um when the entity would want to write like inappropriate and vulgar [ __ ] on the
00:36:31
wall, it would do so through Esther. >> Huh. >> So, it would tell her what to write and
00:36:36
where to write it. >> Okay. >> So, she's like actively part of this at least whether she's being controlled or
00:36:44
not. So like when it said like I'm Esther is mine to kill, she's the one that wrote that.
00:36:49
>> That's not documented, but other times she was. >> Okay. So in early 1879, the skeptical
00:36:56
position was given a little more credence when after being sedated by Dr. Karite during a really bad episode of
00:37:02
stomach pain, Esther quote fell into a catalic trance during which she told all of Jenny Daniel and the doctor about
00:37:10
what had happened between her and Bob McNeel. According to Esther, Bob had quote unsuccessfully tried to assault
00:37:17
her and they had a violent quarrel. >> Yeah. >> Um just before he had vanished to Am
00:37:23
from Amherst. So after hearing this story, Olive remarked, "It's Bob McNeel who's caused all this trouble." And from
00:37:29
out of nowhere, they heard three short sharp knocks. >> So yes. >> So it's like, "What the [ __ ]
00:37:35
>> Where is Bob?" Now, in January 1879, the noises, fires, and constant public attention finally became way too much
00:37:42
for Daniel and Olive Teed, and it was decided that it would be best for everyone if Esther moved out.
00:37:47
>> Oh, that's so [ __ ] mean. They said, "We're done with all this. You got to get the We don't know what's going on.
00:37:54
>> We've had enough of your [ __ ] >> But truly, we really don't care. Please go."
00:37:57
>> Yeah, we do not. We don't want to deal with this anymore. Simply don't. Um, so
00:38:02
fortunately she was quickly able to find new accommodations with a local couple.
00:38:07
>> Okay. >> Named John White and his wife. >> Shut the [ __ ] Alina Urkart. >> We let her in. Okay.
00:38:13
>> Yeah. >> We gave her shelter. >> You kind souls. >> Me and John White. At first, everything
00:38:18
in Esther's new home seemed quiet and calm because we're great. Um, but within two weeks, the activity started again.
00:38:24
>> Okay. >> So terrified by the phenomenon, John's wife, me, insisted that Esther needed to
00:38:30
[ __ ] go. Oh, I mean, so she ended up spending most of her time living and working at the Whites restaurant in
00:38:37
town, where the noises continued to be heard and objects continued to fly across the room. Weird.
00:38:43
>> It's It's like a poltergeist. >> Yeah, very much so. >> By the summer of 1879, the story of
00:38:48
Esther Cox and the Great Amherst Mystery had spread all across Nova Scotia thanks
00:38:53
to curious journalists and others with, you know, an interest in the supernatural. Eventually, the story made
00:38:59
its way to Walter Hubble, who we've cited a number of times, who spent the winter performing with an acting troop
00:39:05
in Halifax. And once spring had arrived, he was looking for a new subject for a book.
00:39:10
>> Now, for most of his life, Hubble had been a writer and an actor, just, you know, nothing to write home about. Um,
00:39:17
had it not been for Esther's story, it's likely he wouldn't really be remembered
00:39:21
publicly for for those two tasks. >> Yeah. But Hubble had always had a strong interest in paranormal activity
00:39:28
happenings. So when he read about Esther's plight, he really wanted to visit her. So he made arrangements to he
00:39:34
said, "I got to see this bitch." >> He said, "Let me see what's going on right now." So he arrived in Amherst on
00:39:39
June 11th, 1879. And his first stop was the Teed House where he was introduced to Esther. Uh he wrote, "Esthers was
00:39:46
very self-possessed and appeared to be in excellent health." By that time, Esther and the rest of the family had
00:39:52
started referring to the ghosts in the house as Bob Nickel and Maggie Fisher. >> Okay. Which I kind of love.
00:40:00
>> I do too. >> I don't know why. >> There's Bob and there's Maggie. >> Yeah. At least these were the two most
00:40:05
prominent ghosts in the house. But according to Esther, there were others. According to Esther, quote, Bob and
00:40:11
Maggie informed her it would be all right for her to stare share her story. >> Okay.
00:40:16
>> They said, "It's cool. You can talk to people. Ultimately, [Music] Hubble spent a little more than a month
00:40:34
investigating the haunting of Esther Cox, and he admitted at first he was very skeptical of her claims.
00:40:38
>> Yeah, me too. >> In fact, his plan was to spend enough time with Esther to gather evidence of
00:40:44
fraud and then expose her as a hoax. >> Oh, dang. That was what he was going for.
00:40:48
>> Walter, >> I mean, he was like, I think it's fake and I'm going to expose your ass.
00:40:52
>> But Hubble said, "I was willing to acknowledge that there might be a power of some kind about the girl, but of
00:40:57
course, nothing supernatural." However, his supposed skepticism soon fell away when that evening at dinner,
00:41:04
they were all seated around the table and they started to hear knocks. Mhm. >> Um he said we could all hear even the
00:41:11
scratching sounds of invisible human fingernails and the dull sounds produced by the hands as they rubbed the table
00:41:17
and struck it with invisible clenched fists. >> Oh. >> So now convinced that what he was seeing
00:41:24
was in fact real, Hubble immediately started booking a lecture tour for himself and asked Esther if she would be
00:41:30
willing to join him. >> He said, "I got to spread the good word." >> He said, "Let's go." And Esther was
00:41:34
like, "Hell yeah, let's go." >> Okay. I don't know what to make of this story. >> Nobody really does
00:41:40
>> because by that time she'd been asked to move out of her home and was living primarily in a small room at a
00:41:46
restaurant. >> It's truly my favorite thing that they were like, "Yeah, sorry experiencing,
00:41:50
but like bye." >> John White and his wife, you know, they were like, "It only went so far."
00:41:54
>> Uh, she got kicked out twice. >> Yeah, she did. >> Her own family and them. >> She was starting to also face some
00:41:59
hostility from the locals because they'd grown tired of all the attention that that was happening around town. They
00:42:04
just didn't want it anymore. God forbid a woman a woman get attention. >> The tour began in mid June with their
00:42:10
first stop in Monton. Unfortunately, Esther's ghosts appeared to have come along for the ride, though, and made
00:42:17
themselves known before the speaking event even began, the first one. Uh, they caused chairs in the auditorium to
00:42:23
move on their own. And I guess this is like kind of fortunately for their their plight kind of sucks because they're
00:42:30
[ __ ] with the with the whole show. >> Yeah. Um, this delighted some in the crowd.
00:42:35
>> I'd be delighted. >> Others became annoyed, particularly once it became clear that the spirit spirits
00:42:40
couldn't be controlled. So, they were just like really [ __ ] up the whole thing.
00:42:43
>> That would make me even more excited. I would love it. >> I'd be like, "Oh my god."
00:42:46
>> During a church service the day after the lecture, Esther was asked to leave after the service became interrupted
00:42:52
when, according to the local press, quote, "The ghost manifested itself by knocking on the floor of the pew in
00:42:59
front." >> Okay. which like >> she can't do that. >> Yeah, that's the How would she like how
00:43:04
is she interrupting all this [ __ ] >> And church. I'm like, damn. You know no bounds. Esther's ghost.
00:43:09
>> The diamond. I think now not long after their first lecture date, the tour began
00:43:14
falling apart. During their travels, Esther repeatedly experienced a lot of physical symptoms like swelling,
00:43:20
vomiting, and muscle rigidity. Ooh. uh each time she was evaluated by a doctor and they all said, you know, more or
00:43:27
less the same thing that she was suffering from symptoms of over excitement. >> Okay.
00:43:32
>> But poor health was not the only problem that was happening. In each town they
00:43:37
stopped at, advanced word of their arrival had given the local religious organizations time to organize a
00:43:43
protest. Even back then, they were they were at it. >> They were back at it. >> And Esther and Hubble were met with
00:43:49
strong opposition in their spiritualist message. Uh in a letter to the editor of
00:43:54
one paper, a Presbyterian group wrote, "In the humanity propriety, religion and decency, we earnestly protest against a
00:44:02
proceeding so base and disgusting the civil authorities ought to interfere." It's like, "Girl, what are they supposed
00:44:08
to do? She's being telling you stuff." >> Yeah. >> They're just informing you like, "Hey,
00:44:13
she's haunted. Maybe exercise her. Stand together and exercise the bitch." >> You know what you can do? Just not
00:44:19
listen to her. >> Just [ __ ] off. >> You could do that. The same thing that applies to social media now applied to
00:44:27
this then if you don't [ __ ] like it >> don't listen to her. It's not simple that [ __ ] hard but instead they're
00:44:36
like no one can listen. >> People were hate listening back then too. >> It's true they were in a
00:44:42
>> there's always going to be a subgroup of hate like hate content scrollers, hate
00:44:46
content listeners. >> Hate protesters back then. >> Hate hate hate. You're just filled with
00:44:50
stupid hate. Like, damn. >> Get a life. >> Just go do something. Get a hobby. >> Listen, my grandpa says it all the time.
00:44:55
Get a life. >> Get a life. Instead of spreading the the hate, spread the good word.
00:45:00
>> Tell people what you're doing. >> Let her do her thing. People will listen or they won't. And then you go spread
00:45:06
your good word. Pabize. Get a life. I say live and let live. >> Exactly. Now, with the lecture tour
00:45:12
having fallen, you know, mostly apart. Uh Hubble and his group returned with Esther to Amhurst and soon after he
00:45:19
informed her that he would be leaving. He was like, "This is a lot." >> He said, "Sorry, I have been chased out
00:45:23
of town." >> Yeah. Decades later in 1879, Hubble published his account of the time he
00:45:28
spent with Esther Cox investigating the great Amherst Mystery. Um in a book called The Great Amherst Mystery, a true
00:45:35
narrative of the supernatural. M >> the book went on to become a huge success and it honestly brought Hubble
00:45:41
up from amateur actor which is what he was doing before this to an internationally recognized author and an
00:45:48
pseudo expert on the paranormal. So we got something out of it. >> Okay. Walter Esther moved back into the
00:45:54
teed house finally. They welcomed her back. >> They said okay. But when the activity
00:45:58
started up again a short time later she was asked to leave again. >> Damn, this [ __ ] is getting evicted
00:46:03
left, right, and center. and she went to stay with the Van Ambergs, a local family with whom she had stayed with in
00:46:09
the past. Initially, it was pretty quiet in the house and people even suggested Mr. Vanamberg quote possessed an
00:46:16
influence over the ghost similar to the alleged influence his illustrious kinsman was said to have over wild
00:46:21
beasts. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Mr. Van Amsburg, he apparently was coming from a long line of people who
00:46:29
could [ __ ] tame wild beasts. >> He's like a lion tamer, >> which is pretty fun. But if Vin Hamburg
00:46:34
did have any control over Esther and her spirits, it didn't last very long. No. >> Uh, within a few weeks, it all started
00:46:40
again. Pots, pans, clothes, and other valuables were thrown around the house on a near daily basis.
00:46:46
>> Oh, darn. >> The tension in the house was thick. >> Yeah, you're ruining my [ __ ]
00:46:50
>> Yeah. And it finally came to a head a few weeks later when the ghost supposedly set fire to the Vanamberg's
00:46:56
barn. >> That'll do it. And it destroyed everything inside. It was like genuine destruction.
00:47:01
>> Oh, that's sad. Furious and distraught, Mr. Vanamberg had Esther arrested and
00:47:06
charged as quote an incendiary, >> alleging that it was she who set the barn on fire to further her hoax. I
00:47:13
mean, I do lowkey get why he would feel that way. I'd probably do the same thing.
00:47:17
>> Yeah. According to one press account, quote, "The judge and jury were non-believers as far as ghosts were
00:47:23
concerned, and Esther was found guilty and sentenced to four months in jail for arson." Four months, huh? It's pretty uh
00:47:30
pretty brief stay for arson, I would say. >> Light arson. >> Light arson. Ultimately, she would only
00:47:36
serve one month of her sentence. >> Is she like a celeb? >> Uh yeah, because it was really due in
00:47:41
large part to the number of respectable locals who spoke out on her behalf. >> Oh, that's nice.
00:47:45
>> She did have some people in her corner. >> They said no, it really was ghosts.
00:47:48
>> After she was released, she found work as a living maid for Arthur Davidson, the local clerk of the court. But as
00:47:55
always, things started to go wrong almost immediately in the Davidson house. Knives, forks, sewing needles,
00:48:01
knitting needles, all manner of dangerous objects this time, not just pots and pans. Sharp.
00:48:06
>> Uh, they flew around the house with like pretty regular frequency at this point.
00:48:11
Uh, including one incident when a large fork struck Davidson in the back of the head.
00:48:16
>> Oh, [ __ ] Oh yeah, like the previous accommodations, uh, her time with the Davidsons came to an end after his barn
00:48:23
caught fire and was completely destroyed. >> What now? If she's still setting fires
00:48:28
to prove this whole thing, that's bold. >> That's almost what makes me feel like
00:48:33
it's real, though, because it's like, why would she do that again? Spend more time in jail.
00:48:37
>> But then again, she did get out after only a month, so it's like she looks around and she's like, well, people will
00:48:41
band together to get me out. And at least for her, jail was like a steady living like situation
00:48:46
>> for months. She had somewhere to stay. Yeah. >> Two hots in a cot, you know. >> Two hots in a
00:48:50
>> Jesus Christ. >> It's true. >> You're not wrong. For for Esther, it's true. Now, after being kicked out of the
00:48:57
Davidson house after, you know, the barn set fire, Esther spent two months bouncing around from one home to
00:49:02
another, never staying more than a few days. In early 1880, she suffered another attack of physical symptoms that
00:49:09
required Dr. Karite to sedate her with morphine and she remained unconscious for several days before coming to and
00:49:16
resuming her normal state. >> That's a lot of [ __ ] morphine. >> Now, this latest attack on her health
00:49:21
and well-being proved to be the last. >> After a brief period of depression, she
00:49:26
was resolved to reclaim her life. She was like, I cannot do this anymore. >> And she was like, I'm I'm just moving
00:49:33
on. I'm moving forward. I'm going to try to put this behind me and try to see if
00:49:37
that will work. And within a few a short time, she started seeing a man from town.
00:49:41
>> Oh, that after a brief courtship, they married and they had one child. >> And it's unclear how or why the first
00:49:50
marriage came to an end, cuz it did. But Esther would go on to marry a second time and have another child before
00:49:56
leaving Amherst for good and relocating to Brockton, Massachusetts. >> Shut the [ __ ] up. Shut the [ __ ] up.
00:50:04
That's like when it happened in the menu and they were like, "Yeah, she's from Brockton." I was like, "What?"
00:50:10
>> Like, "What the fuck?" >> Esther out here in Brockton, >> the most random town.
00:50:15
>> It's truly the most random town. >> Brockton, Massachusetts. What is Brockton known? Is it uh
00:50:22
>> City of Champions? >> City of Champions. Like that's I if you had said like Palmer, you know, Amherst
00:50:30
>> cuz it's like that's like a western Malden, Marboro, like [ __ ] Adams, Everett, Dorchester, Worcester. If you
00:50:38
had said any of these towns, I'd be like, "Wow, that's weird." >> Brockton. >> Brockton.
00:50:42
>> The [ __ ] are you doing in Brockton? Like, I'm not saying I'm just like, "It's just so random."
00:50:46
>> No, that's literally it's just a random [ __ ] place. >> So random. >> What? >> So crazy. It was like the menu moment
00:50:53
for me. As soon as I read it, I was like, "What?" >> It's like you just hear like glass
00:50:56
shatter. >> What did she do in Brockton? >> Yeah. Now, by that time, whatever had
00:51:02
been haunting Esther Cox appeared to have left her. There's no further reports of supernatural phenomena after
00:51:08
she got married. >> That makes no [ __ ] sense to me. >> Yeah. >> Years and years and barnfires of plenty.
00:51:14
And then she's just like, "Yeah, I want to get married and have some kids." And it all
00:51:17
>> she's like, "It's weird. It just went away." >> She like stopped swelling, too. Yeah,
00:51:21
she stopped all of it, I guess. Which like that's weird cuz she was swelling up and [ __ ] I don't this I don't know
00:51:28
what to make of this. >> I don't need Now little is known about her life after she left Amherst.
00:51:32
>> Little is known about her time in >> Brockton other than the documentation of
00:51:35
her death on November 8th, 1912 at age 52. >> What the [ __ ] She'll be 52. >> Yeah, I mean it is the 1800s, but
00:51:43
>> yeah, but still. Now, the story of Esther Cox and the great Amherst mystery had captured the imagination and
00:51:49
attention of people everywhere all over the world since it began. >> Wow. >> And it obviously inspired a lot of
00:51:55
theories about where this all came from. Some like Walter Hubble believed that she was genuinely haunted and others
00:52:02
believe the entire saga was a hoax perpetrated by one person. I feel like I'm not in either camp.
00:52:07
>> I know it's a hard one to sit in. >> It is. >> Dr. Walter Prince wrote in 1919 um in an
00:52:12
article for the journal of the American Society of Psychical Research, "The Amherst mystery, we are informed on the
00:52:19
best authority, is no mystery at all except to persons who refrain from using their powers of observation and reason."
00:52:26
So they're like, "It's really not a mystery unless you just choose not to see what's happening."
00:52:30
>> Okay. >> He said, "The only mystery is that so many persons who should have known
00:52:35
better are deceived." But like how is she creating knocking in the in the front pew when she was not there?
00:52:41
>> Those are the kind of things. And also it's like >> and how did she make things fly?
00:52:45
>> That's like the knives and forks and [ __ ] like no one was saying I saw her throw these things like they were just
00:52:52
flying around. >> I mean I guess they're like Chris Angel mind freak vibes. Like maybe
00:52:56
>> Chris Angel mind freak. >> Maybe she that's the tweet period. >> Yeah. Like that's it.
00:53:02
>> But you know what? Like he can he can do like illusions and [ __ ] Maybe Illusionists are definitely
00:53:08
>> Yeah. Like >> maybe she's she's one of the great illusionists of our time, you know?
00:53:12
>> Maybe she's Esther girl mind freak. >> Freak. Esther Cox mind freak. >> I mean is what that works.
00:53:19
>> Honestly should be titled Esther Cox mind freak. >> I mean it had to like that like that
00:53:25
people learned that [ __ ] somewhere. Yeah. I mean, we look, we just said people were already doing the don't, you
00:53:33
know, instead of me just not listening to something I don't like, I'm going to try to make everybody not listen to
00:53:37
something I don't like. Back then, >> they were definitely doing mind freak back then.
00:53:41
>> Exactly. They were everything we're doing now. Mind freak, you know, twerking, all of those things. They were
00:53:46
different. They were ass. >> But yeah, I I don't know. I believe in hauntings like 150%. But I've been to a
00:53:55
lot of haunted locations at this point and nothing ever gets thrown. Like I've never seen anything thrown and I
00:54:00
desperately want to. >> Yeah, I would love to see something. >> Like I've never seen the extreme sides
00:54:06
that people talk about and that does make you question >> it makes it >> of like going back to like the energy
00:54:15
kind of thing of it all that like stored energy especially like traumatic energy
00:54:19
or negative energy. I fully believe in that. >> I'm like does that can that cause things
00:54:22
like that? Again, like you just said, I've never seen it happen. >> I've never experienced it. And we've
00:54:27
been in some places where >> I mean, in our house growing up, I remember me and my brother were
00:54:32
downstairs >> and we heard a crash. >> Yeah. >> And when we ran upstairs and his room
00:54:37
was wildly haunted, it was my room first and then I was like, "Fuck that." [ __ ]
00:54:40
this. Like, you can have this. He took it. >> Actually, you know what? >> And that it was a it was a framed
00:54:46
picture that didn't just fall down on the wall. It had >> like flew across the room. like went
00:54:51
across the room and was leaning against the other side of the room. So, I will say I didn't see it with my own eyes,
00:54:56
but I heard it >> when I you like before I moved into my own papa's house and I used to like just
00:55:00
stay for like the week or like some like time, >> I would sleep in that room from time to
00:55:05
time. And do you remember the night that a box just slid across the floor out of
00:55:08
nowhere and I I woke the entire house up because I screamed so loud. So, I have seen things move.
00:55:15
>> So, yeah. >> I've just like Well, yeah. I mean, >> I can literally still see that in my
00:55:19
head. That [ __ ] was crazy. >> Yeah. So, I mean, I guess I guess >> Yeah. You know what?
00:55:23
>> I mean, it's not as egregious as knives and forks flying through the air and like pots and pans and [ __ ]
00:55:30
>> Yeah. >> But it's something. >> Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. It's it's it's very unknown to me.
00:55:35
>> But Dr. Walter Prince and many others in the field of paranormal research flatly
00:55:40
rejected Hubble's account of this supposedly true haunting. Um, they were asserting that their steadfast belief
00:55:46
was merely, you know, this was just a disingenuous marketing strategy to sell more books. That's what they were
00:55:53
asserting. I'm not saying that. >> Author Lorie Glenn Norris, whose 2012 book Haunted Girls, tells a more
00:55:59
detailed story of Cox's life. >> Haic title, >> right? Haunted girl. Um, and it's girl.
00:56:04
Sorry, I shouldn't have said girls. It's girl. >> There are many haunted girls. We are two
00:56:08
of them. >> There's there's only one. I said girls accidentally, but it tells a more detailed story of Cox's life. Um,
00:56:16
and agrees with that sentiment that >> something else was going on. According to Glenn Norris, the haunting most
00:56:22
likely started out as a prank by a young woman who was desperate for attention, but everything quickly spiraled out of
00:56:28
control. After her mother's death, her father's remarage, and being shipped off to live with her sister, her life
00:56:35
probably felt like it was kind of falling apart and very out of her control. Um, add to that the assault
00:56:41
>> and the death threats from McNeel and it's very likely that Esther was in a mental health crisis and needed help.
00:56:48
>> But then flip that on its head, like you just said, >> there are energies that feed off of
00:56:54
negative experiences and I would assume that would have been a very negative experience for her
00:57:00
>> and she was living with trauma. >> So it's like maybe something was feeding off of that. I can see her doing it for
00:57:07
attention and then it's spiraling out of control during a mental health crisis. Or I can see that side. Yeah. That
00:57:14
>> I agree with you. >> But Glenn Norris said instead of helping her, the people who should have helped
00:57:18
her quote turned her personal crisis into a public sensation. >> U more than a century later, her story
00:57:25
has inspired countless books, plays, even an annual festival in Amherst known as Estherfest. There's an Esther Fest
00:57:32
and I've never gone. I spent plenty of time in Amherst. The draw of the story is the fact that it's still one of the
00:57:38
nation's great unsolved mysteries, while others use it as an opportunity to share
00:57:43
their own ghost stories. Um, >> when are we going to Esther Fest? >> Ammerst Mayor David Krogan said, "I just
00:57:49
like that it puts a spotlight on the town. I mean, it's a ghost story that apparently is one of the most
00:57:54
welldocumented supernatural events that have ever been." Yeah. Although she appreciates that people are continuing
00:58:00
to tell Esther's story, Lori Glenoris, her appreciation of the festival in celebration of Cox comes with a warning.
00:58:07
She said, "I appreciate that we're still telling the story, but she warned, hopefully people will take into
00:58:11
consideration that there was more to her than the 15 months and how this type of
00:58:15
thing can be so harmful to people." She said, "I'm not sure if Esther really ever recovered from it." Oh, which like
00:58:22
she also doesn't know that because we don't have any documentation of what how she was after she got married.
00:58:28
>> Kind of sounds like she did recover from it because she went on to have two marriages and two children.
00:58:32
>> That's a thing. And then really heard of again. So it's like in lived a life in
00:58:36
Brockton, Massachusetts. >> I think she recovered from it. So, it's like I appreciate though that she's
00:58:40
saying, you know, like that >> there's more to her than 15 months >> that there really could have been a
00:58:46
mental health crisis here happening that was but we don't know that. That's the thing. Like we don't know that she was
00:58:52
not documented to have mental health theory >> crises or anything like that. That's a
00:58:57
theory. It's a very good theory. There's also the very valid if you are into supernatural theory that something was
00:59:04
going on here. There's also another theory that this McNeel guy was [ __ ] tormenting her.
00:59:10
>> Yeah, >> because that's like a real theory. >> I kind of wonder >> he was like stalking and tormenting her.
00:59:15
>> I actually kind of wondered that especially when like the match fell from the attic.
00:59:19
>> Yeah, it's like that could have been and it could be a combo platter cuz also
00:59:22
many different things. >> He just disappeared. >> Yeah. Nobody knew where he went. So it's
00:59:26
like >> and he was you just live in the I mean we've covered stories before where
00:59:29
people have lived in the [ __ ] walls >> and he was known to be a dick face and it's like and it's not like they had
00:59:34
Simply Safe back then where they would tell if he was in the [ __ ] attic. Like they know there was nothing. He
00:59:39
could have climbed in an attic very easily and just lived there. >> And it's like this guy was skinning cats
00:59:44
alive. Like he would say that he was but that's it's the truth. Like he was a straightup
00:59:50
>> monstrous human being. This would not be out of the realm of possibility. He tried to assault her or did assault her.
00:59:57
>> And it's like it's not out of the realm of possibility that this McNeel guy made
01:00:02
it his [ __ ] business to torment her afterwards. >> Like you don't know. And even if he
01:00:07
started to and then it turned into something else cuz he had literally driven her to a mental health crisis.
01:00:12
Yep. >> Where she was just continuing it cuz she believed she was still in it. >> Yeah.
01:00:17
>> And not even realizing that she was continuing it. >> Or it's a [ __ ] demon.
01:00:21
>> Could be. I mean, it's all What do we know? What does anybody know? >> That's We said it in the abduction
01:00:27
episode. There's just so much out there that we don't know about. >> We don't [ __ ] know. It could be any
01:00:31
of these things. I'm willing to believe any three of them. They all make sense. >> Maybe it's a combo of all of them.
01:00:35
>> I think it's a combo of all of them, to be honest. >> I don't know. That's a crazy story,
01:00:38
though. >> Yeah. I didn't I've said it 50 million times, but I really don't know what to
01:00:42
make of that. >> It That's the thing. A lot of these things when we talk about them like the
01:00:47
poltergeist or hauntings, usually at the end I feel pretty one one way or another.
01:00:54
>> This one I feel conflicted. >> I do too. >> And it's I don't believe it was just a
01:01:01
straight up haunting. >> No. >> No. I don't think it's just clearcut haunting. I think there was other
01:01:07
elements involved. >> Yeah. I feel like the >> I think that could be part of it.
01:01:10
>> I think there's absolutely an element of haunting. And I think the McNeel thing,
01:01:14
it's like he assaulted her and then he just like left is not that believable to me.
01:01:19
>> Yeah. >> I feel like >> something like we never heard about him again. >> I feel like he plays a deeper role than
01:01:24
than people realize. >> I think so, too. >> What an interesting story though. >> And I'm really trying to go to
01:01:30
Esesterfest. So >> that's we got to go to Essterfest. >> And I'll remember that there's more to
01:01:33
her than 15 months while I'm at Esesterfest. >> Hell yeah. So I found it. So um and
01:01:38
remember this is Amherst, Nova Scotia. >> Oh yeah. So I've actually um Astric I've
01:01:43
never been there. I thought we were talking cuz I was like I don't think you've spent a lot of time in there. You're
01:01:49
like I I'm not positive but something else. Also that makes it even more random that she made her way to Brock.
01:01:57
That's why it's crazy. >> I thought you meant like Amherst like Western Mass. Yeah. Um, so Estherfest is
01:02:03
apparently, this is according to the website, is a celebration of the paranormal and horror that takes place
01:02:08
in Amherst each October inspired by Esther Cox and her story. It's happening right now.
01:02:14
>> I'm still trying to go. >> Yeah, >> Nova Scotia seems dope. >> Yeah, it seems like it's a fun The Great
01:02:20
Amherst Street Party is part of it. >> Uh, yeah, I'd like to go to there. >> This looks like fun. Uh, the Graham The
01:02:26
Great Amherst Street Party takes place on the 18th of October. Live music. This is live music with second toe,
01:02:36
>> which I think is >> Little Piggy. >> Bouncy castles. >> I mean, >> vendors, face painting, horse and wagon
01:02:42
rides. >> Wagon rides. >> Like this is >> What was the last thing you said? >> A petting zoo.
01:02:48
>> A petting zoo. >> And so much more. It says >> I think we ought to book tickets.
01:02:52
>> That looks like fun. >> Yeah, it does. It looks like a busk. >> It looks like a b like a birkshshire
01:02:57
bust. It really does. I am obsessed and I think I'll maybe go next year. >> So, if you're in Amherst or if you're in
01:03:04
Nova Scotia at all, go like our friend Jordan from Nighttime Podcast. Go. >> Oh my god, Jordan. Go to Esther. Tell us
01:03:11
everything >> because it looks cool. >> Go ootfest and tell us. >> We're the worst.
01:03:21
>> All our Canadian listeners said bye. They said [ __ ] you. >> All right, guys. Well, that was a good
01:03:25
story, Alina. >> That was a fun one. I like top. >> We hope you keep listening and we hope
01:03:31
you keep it weird, but not so weird that you don't go party your ass off at Esther Fest and make things fly, baby.
01:03:38
>> Essest Fester. >> Esther Cox Mind Freak. [Music] [Music] [Music]