00:00:00
Hey weirdos. I'm Elena.
00:00:02
>> I'm Ash.
00:00:03
>> And this is Morbid.
00:00:05
[music]
00:00:17
I need a fridge cigarette and we don't
00:00:19
have any. [laughter]
00:00:20
Like bam.
00:00:21
>> And the episode [music] has started. I
00:00:22
think I took the last one. Mikey's
00:00:24
looking for me.
00:00:24
>> Mikey's like, I got you, girl. He waved
00:00:27
his fist punch in anger
00:00:29
>> at the at the fact that there's no
00:00:31
fridge [music] cigarette. Mikey's going
00:00:32
to punch me and possums.
00:00:34
>> Yeah, [laughter] you will understand
00:00:35
that until
00:00:36
>> you listen to the rewatcher.
00:00:38
>> Just plug in all our shows. [laughter]
00:00:40
>> Pluggity plug plug
00:00:41
>> pluggy plug plug.
00:00:43
>> Actually, the rewatcher, just quick
00:00:45
little pluggy plug plug now that we're
00:00:46
on it. Um,
00:00:48
>> the amount of people that were either
00:00:50
like, "Hey, I never watched True Blood
00:00:51
and I'm watching it now because of
00:00:53
this." I didn't initially like True
00:00:55
Blood and now I'm loving it.
00:00:57
>> Hell yeah. I've heard I've seen some of
00:00:59
those and I think that's a pretty good
00:01:01
indication that you should be listening
00:01:02
to the rewatch.
00:01:03
>> I think that's a great
00:01:04
>> It's a lot of fun over there. Talking
00:01:06
about a lot of vampire sex right now.
00:01:07
>> It's the same kind of vibe. I've never
00:01:09
seen True Blood before, so I'm watching
00:01:11
it for the first time and Mickey and
00:01:12
Alina have seen it.
00:01:13
>> Yeah,
00:01:14
>> we I'm going to We should do a thing
00:01:16
that you guys have never seen that I've
00:01:18
seen. It would be the most reckless. It
00:01:21
would have to be reality television or
00:01:24
like
00:01:26
>> Secret Life of the American [laughter]
00:01:27
Teenager. Oh my god, we should rewatch
00:01:30
that show. Please don't do that to me.
00:01:32
[laughter]
00:01:32
>> I don't know if I could do that to
00:01:34
myself. No, frankly, I really don't know
00:01:35
if I could do that to myself.
00:01:37
>> Yeah, I could not.
00:01:37
>> I remember there came a time where I my
00:01:40
mom made me stop watching that because
00:01:41
it got so reckless. And honestly,
00:01:42
[laughter]
00:01:43
that was one of the only good parenting
00:01:45
decisions she ever made. [gasps]
00:01:47
>> So, there's that. Speaking of crazy
00:01:50
family dynamics, uh we are in part two
00:01:53
of the gruesome awful murder of Terry
00:01:55
King.
00:01:55
>> Yeah, this this one's rough. This one is
00:01:58
very rough. It's very layered there. I
00:02:01
There's a lot of divisive opinions about
00:02:03
this case. I don't think any of us will
00:02:05
really ever know the full truth of
00:02:06
certain aspects of this case, but we
00:02:08
definitely know some truths and they're
00:02:11
tough to sit with. But in part one, we
00:02:14
talked about how Terry was discovered in
00:02:16
a house fire, which they initially just
00:02:18
thought was, you know, a houseire, but
00:02:20
it turned out that he had basically
00:02:22
suffered like blunt force trauma to his
00:02:24
head and then the killer had left and
00:02:26
set the house on fire. Then this guy
00:02:28
Ricky starts showing up everywhere. And
00:02:30
I don't like Ricky
00:02:31
>> being a strange character. the lead
00:02:33
investigator, do I almost just said
00:02:35
doctor, Detective Sanderson, starts
00:02:37
talking to Ricky a little more and Ricky
00:02:40
slowly is like saying, "Oh, you know,
00:02:42
like I really love this family. They
00:02:44
mean a lot to me. I do anything for the
00:02:46
kids. I do anything for Terry." But
00:02:48
>> Terry's abusive and the kids probably
00:02:50
killed him.
00:02:51
>> And that's where we ended part one.
00:02:53
>> And the detective said, "Huh?"
00:02:55
>> The detective said, "Qu."
00:02:57
>> The detective said, "Sometimes you just
00:02:59
get an interview and then you have to
00:03:00
move on."
00:03:01
>> Yeah. like you know that little Tik Tok
00:03:03
trend. Yeah,
00:03:03
>> I was making it funny.
00:03:04
>> I like it.
00:03:05
>> Thanks. So, let's get into it. Later
00:03:08
that same afternoon, after that initial
00:03:10
interview with Ricky, uh Detective
00:03:12
Sanderson and his partner decided they
00:03:14
would accompany Ricky back to his
00:03:15
trailer under the guise of wanting to
00:03:17
check the answering machine to see if
00:03:19
either boy had contacted him.
00:03:21
>> There weren't any messages on the
00:03:22
machine, but the level of security at
00:03:24
the house struck them as highly unusual.
00:03:28
The trailer was surrounded by a huge
00:03:31
security fence that was electrified.
00:03:34
>> Okay.
00:03:35
>> And there were security cameras
00:03:37
literally all around the property. Like
00:03:38
every angle was covered.
00:03:40
>> Wow. So the level of security implied
00:03:42
that there was something probably
00:03:44
precious or valuable inside. But once
00:03:47
they walked through the door, Detective
00:03:49
Sanderson couldn't fathom what that
00:03:51
would be because every surface of
00:03:52
Ricky's home was covered with garbage
00:03:54
and clutter.
00:03:55
>> Ew. Yeah. It was yuckus. So after
00:03:57
checking the answering machine and not
00:03:59
finding anything, the detective thanked
00:04:00
Ricky and got the [ __ ] out of there cuz
00:04:02
he was like, "Ew." And also that was
00:04:04
weird. So he spent the rest of the
00:04:07
afternoon interviewing the people who
00:04:08
had known Derek and Alex the best. And
00:04:10
like the interviews he had conducted
00:04:12
earlier that day, Ricky Chavis's name
00:04:14
kept coming up again and again and
00:04:16
again. According to Frank Lei,
00:04:18
Dererick's former foster father, the
00:04:20
boys had struggled with Dererick's
00:04:22
return home, and there was tension in
00:04:23
the house. But he himself didn't think
00:04:26
there was any abuse.
00:04:27
>> Okay.
00:04:28
>> As for the previous weeks when the boys
00:04:30
had run away, he clarified they hadn't
00:04:32
been in the woods like Ricky said they
00:04:33
had been, but actually they were living
00:04:36
at Ricky's house for that week that they
00:04:38
were missing. Oh, yeah. Derek told his
00:04:42
former foster father that Chavis helped
00:04:45
them plan their escape and protected
00:04:47
them by hiding them from their father.
00:04:50
>> Okay. So Lewis Tyson, a friend of
00:04:52
Terry's, told the detective a similar
00:04:54
story. According to Tyson, he had been
00:04:56
at the house when the boys were returned
00:04:58
by the police officer the following day,
00:05:00
like back into Tererry's home. Derek and
00:05:03
Alex said they stayed in the woods the
00:05:04
entire time that they were missing, but
00:05:07
Tyson pressed them and he told the
00:05:08
detective. I said, "I know you're lying.
00:05:10
You two didn't stay in the woods. Derek,
00:05:12
you're afraid of spiders. Alex, you're
00:05:14
afraid of the dark." That's when they
00:05:16
kind of just looked at the ground and
00:05:17
they told me about their friend. Okay.
00:05:20
>> Their friend is Ricky Chavis.
00:05:22
>> I was going to say,
00:05:24
>> so Tyson didn't know the name of Derek
00:05:26
and Alex's quote unquote friend, but he
00:05:28
knew that the boys had been spending a
00:05:29
lot of time with whoever this was.
00:05:31
>> Mhm.
00:05:31
>> According to Tyson, they said they liked
00:05:33
going to this person's house because he
00:05:35
had a computer and he wasn't very
00:05:36
strict. When he described the house and
00:05:39
the security fence and the cameras
00:05:41
around the property, Sanderson
00:05:42
immediately was like, "Oh, okay. We're
00:05:44
talking about Ricky [ __ ] Chavis like
00:05:45
everybody else is." Yeah. So, by the end
00:05:48
of the first day of the investigation,
00:05:49
Sanderson and his partner still hadn't
00:05:51
found Derek or Alex or really, they
00:05:54
weren't able to determine what happened
00:05:56
in this house. But after everything they
00:05:58
heard that day, they were starting to
00:05:59
think that whatever the [ __ ] happened
00:06:01
here and whatever the [ __ ] happened just
00:06:02
before the fire, Ricky Chavis was
00:06:04
somehow involved.
00:06:06
>> Yeah, it's certainly seeming that way.
00:06:07
>> Yeah. Everybody they're talking to is
00:06:09
either like hinting toward it having
00:06:12
something to do with this or just seem
00:06:13
like he was around all the time. So
00:06:15
after wrapping up his interview with
00:06:17
Lewis Tyson, Detective Sanderson was on
00:06:19
his way back to the station and he got a
00:06:21
call. On the other end of the line, a
00:06:23
sheriff's deputy informed him that
00:06:24
Dererick and Alex King had been found
00:06:26
and they were on their way to the
00:06:28
station in the company of Ricky Chavis
00:06:30
and Deputy Reggie Jernigan. I don't know
00:06:33
if that name sounds familiar to you,
00:06:35
Reggie Jernigan.
00:06:36
>> Yeah, definitely. I remember it being
00:06:37
mentioned. So, in part one, when Ricky
00:06:39
Chavis initially talked to one of the
00:06:41
investigators, he said, "You really want
00:06:43
to talk to this guy
00:06:44
>> who's a deputy?"
00:06:45
>> Yeah.
00:06:46
>> So, as soon as they got to this the
00:06:48
sheriff's station, Dererick and Alex
00:06:49
were taken to a separate room, like away
00:06:51
from Ricky. And Sanderson sat down again
00:06:54
with Ricky for another interview. So,
00:06:56
Ricky said he was at home and he got a
00:06:58
call from some anonymous woman calling
00:07:00
from a pay phone outside of a
00:07:02
convenience store in Pace, Florida. He
00:07:04
said the woman indicated she knew where
00:07:06
the boys were and that Ricky should get
00:07:08
to the convenience store right away. So,
00:07:10
he jumped in his car without hesitation
00:07:12
and he made it to the store in 10
00:07:14
minutes. And right when he pulled his
00:07:15
car into the parking lot, Derek and Alex
00:07:18
walked out of the woods and both got
00:07:20
into his car and returned back home to
00:07:22
his house.
00:07:24
>> Okay. Convenient.
00:07:26
>> H among other things, Ricky said that as
00:07:28
they drove back to his house, Dererick
00:07:30
confessed to murdering his father with a
00:07:32
baseball bat.
00:07:32
>> Wow. and setting the house on the fire
00:07:34
right before they disappeared into the
00:07:36
woods. Uh, completely shocked, quote
00:07:39
unquote, by the boy's confession, Chavis
00:07:41
said he insisted they had to turn
00:07:43
themselves into the police, and that's
00:07:44
when he called his friend Reggie, who
00:07:46
came over, picked the three of them up,
00:07:47
and brought them to the station.
00:07:49
>> Okay,
00:07:50
>> so after listening to this story,
00:07:51
Sanderson and his partner were like,
00:07:54
"Okay, this is [ __ ] weird, but like
00:07:55
now we need to go talk to these two
00:07:57
children."
00:07:57
>> This has opened up a lot more. So they
00:07:59
went to the room where Dererick and Alex
00:08:01
were being held and introduced
00:08:02
themselves. In Florida, minors actually
00:08:05
can be interviewed by law enforcement
00:08:06
without a parent or a guardian in the
00:08:08
room, which is in my opinion crazy.
00:08:10
>> That's wild to me.
00:08:11
>> So the only people present, it's just
00:08:13
important to note, were the detectives
00:08:14
and the boys. And about 15 minutes into
00:08:17
the interview, they were joined by
00:08:18
Deputy Jernigan.
00:08:20
>> That's like really wild.
00:08:21
>> It really is.
00:08:21
>> I feel like we like we breeze by that,
00:08:23
but like that's really wild.
00:08:25
>> No, it really isn't. that minors can be
00:08:27
like interviewed,
00:08:29
>> like interrogated essentially without a
00:08:31
guardian or parent present.
00:08:32
>> Like please, obviously in this case it
00:08:35
seems to work out. Like I think this
00:08:36
detective had very pure intentions and
00:08:38
just wanted to get this case solved and
00:08:40
like there's no weird [ __ ] here.
00:08:41
>> That's not always the case.
00:08:42
>> But that's not always the case. We
00:08:44
literally just covered the yogurt shop
00:08:45
murders where we don't need to get into
00:08:47
all of that again. But like that didn't
00:08:48
go well.
00:08:49
>> Yeah.
00:08:50
>> So yeah.
00:08:50
>> Yeah. That's wild.
00:08:51
>> It was very scary.
00:08:52
>> So the interview started casually. The
00:08:55
detectives kind of just asked like
00:08:56
innocuous questions. How old are you
00:08:57
guys? What grades are you in? So on so
00:09:00
forth. But after a few minutes, the
00:09:02
conversation turned to what happened in
00:09:03
the house the previous evening. By the
00:09:05
way, all of this has happened in like a
00:09:07
day.
00:09:07
>> Yeah, it feels like this has happened in
00:09:09
four years.
00:09:10
>> Yeah. So Derek said earlier in the
00:09:12
afternoon, Terry had been abusing Alex
00:09:14
and was throwing him around. Like
00:09:16
several of the others Sanderson talked
00:09:18
to, Dererick insisted that his dad had
00:09:19
been abusive to both of them in the
00:09:21
past.
00:09:22
>> But he also wasn't really explaining the
00:09:25
abuse in any specific explicit way,
00:09:28
>> just kind of a nebulous abuse.
00:09:30
>> Was really just saying like he's abusive
00:09:31
to us and not really saying anything.
00:09:34
>> Yeah.
00:09:35
>> So the best he could come up with, he
00:09:36
said he was staring me down some.
00:09:40
>> Okay.
00:09:40
>> Which I don't know. I wasn't there. It
00:09:43
took some time, but eventually the
00:09:44
conversation turned to the murder
00:09:46
itself. At first, Derek said that he had
00:09:49
hit his father with the baseball bat in
00:09:51
defense of his brother. But Sanderson
00:09:53
explained that the evidence at the scene
00:09:55
didn't exactly support that explanation
00:09:57
because remember when they found Terry's
00:09:59
body, he's literally sitting in a chair
00:10:01
with a coffee cup and his legs propped
00:10:02
up on a couch like he was chilling.
00:10:05
>> Yeah.
00:10:06
>> So that's when Dererick changed his
00:10:08
story.
00:10:09
>> [snorts]
00:10:09
>> He said they waited until later in the
00:10:11
evening when Terry had fallen asleep in
00:10:12
his recliner in the living room. Derek
00:10:15
didn't just remember the chair that
00:10:16
Terry was sitting in, but he was able to
00:10:18
describe the exact position of his
00:10:21
father's body reclined feet up on the
00:10:23
couch and the fact that he had a coffee
00:10:25
cup in like I think it was in his hand
00:10:28
at that moment. He said, "I went in
00:10:30
there. I hit him once and I heard him
00:10:31
moan and then I was afraid he might wake
00:10:33
up to see us so I just kept hitting him.
00:10:35
I hit him somewhere around 10 times.
00:10:41
Like to be able to do that as any human
00:10:44
being is
00:10:46
horrifying.
00:10:46
>> This is a 13-year-old
00:10:48
>> 13year-old
00:10:49
ch and it's like h this is just and it
00:10:53
was not that long that he had been back
00:10:55
in his custody. So unfortunately
00:10:59
>> this is a whole different dynamic
00:11:00
because you sit there and you say any
00:11:03
human being able to do this to another
00:11:04
human being you just can't fathom.
00:11:06
>> No. And then a child being able to do
00:11:08
this to a parent, you just
00:11:09
>> can't fathom.
00:11:11
>> They're a little bit of new,
00:11:14
you know, there's a new dynamic.
00:11:16
>> They don't have the typical parent and
00:11:17
child relationship.
00:11:19
>> It's not like, it's not like a child
00:11:20
who's grown up in the house his whole
00:11:22
life,
00:11:22
>> right? He was taken out of the house
00:11:23
when he was five or six and returned two
00:11:25
months earlier at 13 years old.
00:11:27
>> Yeah. So, it's like there's this massive
00:11:28
span of time where like they were just
00:11:30
getting to know each other again. It
00:11:32
feels like at this point
00:11:33
>> seven years with little to no contact
00:11:35
because remember there was a little bit
00:11:37
of contact when Derek was placed with
00:11:39
his foster family but confusing so they
00:11:41
didn't really talk for seven years the
00:11:43
better part.
00:11:44
>> So there's an even weirder dynamic
00:11:46
>> like way more complex dynamic here which
00:11:49
is very
00:11:51
>> very unsettling.
00:11:53
>> So throughout the interview Derek got
00:11:54
flustered once or twice obviously but he
00:11:57
was otherwise pretty composed very
00:11:58
matterof fact of everything that
00:12:00
happened.
00:12:00
>> Damn. He described the murder with
00:12:02
incredible detail, including the extent
00:12:04
of his dad's wounds, the sound that
00:12:07
Terry made as he was hit, and the exact
00:12:10
section of the rug that was lit in order
00:12:12
to set the fire.
00:12:13
>> Wow.
00:12:14
>> Like in I was there details.
00:12:17
>> And also,
00:12:18
>> you would think I wasn't in a frenzied
00:12:20
state.
00:12:21
>> Yeah.
00:12:22
>> I wasn't I wasn't blacked out.
00:12:24
>> I remember each and every detail and was
00:12:26
pretty
00:12:27
>> like methodical. Yeah. About everything.
00:12:30
So according to Derek, Alex knew what
00:12:32
Dererick was going to do and he
00:12:33
encouraged him, but he did not take any
00:12:35
part in the actual killing. It was all
00:12:37
the younger brother.
00:12:38
>> He's the younger one. He's 12.
00:12:39
>> Yeah.
00:12:40
>> And he had lived with Terry for a long
00:12:42
time. For a longer time.
00:12:43
>> He had been placed back with Terry when
00:12:45
he was in kindergarten. Yeah. So, and
00:12:48
now he's 12.
00:12:48
>> Yeah.
00:12:49
>> So during the interview, Derek did
00:12:50
almost all of the talking while Alex sat
00:12:52
next to him pretty quietly. After taking
00:12:55
the statement from Derek, the detectives
00:12:57
turned to Alex and asked him if what
00:12:58
Dererick had just said was true. And
00:13:00
Alex said, "It happened just as Derek
00:13:03
said." But he also did add some context
00:13:05
to the abuse allegations. He said, "The
00:13:08
mental abuse started a long time ago. It
00:13:10
had been going on for a real long time.
00:13:12
I got informed by someone he was doing
00:13:14
this."
00:13:15
Oh,
00:13:17
yeah. So, someone has told him that he's
00:13:20
being mentally abused.
00:13:22
>> Uhhuh. Not even not physical. Not that
00:13:24
that's you know.
00:13:26
>> Yeah. Not that it's
00:13:27
>> but that he isn't coming up with this
00:13:29
himself. He's somebody's putting that in
00:13:31
his head.
00:13:32
>> Yeah.
00:13:32
>> Okay.
00:13:33
>> So when Sanderson
00:13:34
>> imagine who?
00:13:34
>> Yeah. You'll never guess. When Detective
00:13:37
Sanderson asked who told the boys that
00:13:39
they were being abused by their father,
00:13:41
he was very unsurprised to learn that it
00:13:43
was Ray Chavis.
00:13:45
>> Yep.
00:13:46
>> So from that moment forward, the story
00:13:48
would dominate the press. first in
00:13:50
Florida alone and then the country. Like
00:13:52
I was saying, this happened right after
00:13:54
9/11. So all the news was of course
00:13:56
about 911, but once this broke out of
00:13:59
Florida, it was everywhere.
00:14:00
>> Yeah.
00:14:01
>> At first, investigators actually weren't
00:14:03
saying whether the boys were considered
00:14:04
witnesses or suspects, but based on the
00:14:06
way that they were talking about
00:14:07
everything, it was pretty clear that
00:14:09
they were suspects.
00:14:10
>> Yeah. And I seem to remember like that.
00:14:12
I think that's where I remember this is
00:14:14
I remember it on the news.
00:14:15
>> Yeah, of course. So regardless of what
00:14:17
investigators thought, nobody in the
00:14:19
public really seemed able to believe
00:14:20
that two kids could have committed such
00:14:22
a brutal act of violence against their
00:14:24
own father.
00:14:25
>> Yeah.
00:14:25
>> Terry's mother, Joyce, told a reporter,
00:14:27
"I don't think there's any way they
00:14:29
could even think about doing that."
00:14:30
>> Which of course you're not going to
00:14:32
>> no conceive of that.
00:14:33
>> So just one day later, the district
00:14:35
attorney's office couldn't contain the
00:14:36
story any longer. And it was made public
00:14:38
that Derk and Alex had been arrested for
00:14:40
the murder of their father. And just as
00:14:43
shocking as the crime itself was the
00:14:45
fact that if the grand jury returned an
00:14:47
indictment for either first or
00:14:49
seconddegree murder, both of them are
00:14:51
going to be tried as adults.
00:14:52
>> Holy [ __ ]
00:14:53
>> They are 12 and 13 years old.
00:14:56
>> Damn.
00:14:56
>> And one of them would have been on trial
00:14:59
for a murder that they technically
00:15:02
didn't take
00:15:03
>> actively take part in
00:15:04
>> actively take part in. Exactly. That's
00:15:05
the best way to say it. So given the
00:15:08
severity of the crimes, because there's
00:15:09
also arson, yeah, the press and public
00:15:11
all speculated on what could have led
00:15:13
these two kids to kill their father. In
00:15:15
interviews with their teachers and their
00:15:16
former foster parents, everybody
00:15:18
described them as nice, polite children.
00:15:21
Obviously, Dererick had behavior
00:15:22
problems, but but they were mostly
00:15:24
related to his ADHD. And there was never
00:15:26
any sign that he would have committed
00:15:28
murder. Like nobody could look back and
00:15:29
say, "Oh, I thought he would have killed
00:15:31
his father."
00:15:32
You know,
00:15:33
>> the pastor or their pastor at Olive
00:15:36
Baptist Church, Reverend Ted Trailer,
00:15:38
described Derek as a boy constantly
00:15:40
seeking affection and validation.
00:15:42
>> Oh man.
00:15:42
>> He said he was reaching out for what he
00:15:44
didn't have, he longed for these kinds
00:15:45
of relationships. You could sense that
00:15:47
in him.
00:15:47
>> That's devastating.
00:15:48
>> It is. While people on the outside
00:15:51
speculated what could have possibly
00:15:53
driven them to do this, detectives on
00:15:55
the inside were also kind of wondering
00:15:56
the same thing. According to Dererick
00:15:58
and Alex, it was the abusive behavior on
00:16:01
part of their father that led them to
00:16:03
kill him. But when they were pressed to
00:16:05
describe that abuse, they just kept
00:16:06
struggling to come up with anything more
00:16:09
than Terry just being strict.
00:16:11
>> Yeah. It's like if this isn't if this is
00:16:13
like a, you know, cuz it makes me
00:16:16
obviously I'm sure many people are
00:16:18
thinking about the Menendez brothers
00:16:19
right now.
00:16:20
>> Yes.
00:16:20
>> They were pretty explicit in what was
00:16:22
going on in their house according to
00:16:24
them. So that's like you would think
00:16:27
they'd be able to come up with
00:16:29
>> certain things that's like this
00:16:31
atrocious thing happened and I couldn't
00:16:33
handle it anymore.
00:16:34
>> Whether that's
00:16:35
>> I snapped,
00:16:36
>> you know, whatever you think of that,
00:16:38
whatever. It's like and for them to not
00:16:40
be able to like
00:16:42
>> coherently come up with even one
00:16:44
instance of like
00:16:47
like specific physical or any kind of
00:16:49
abuse, you know what I mean?
00:16:51
>> It's it's just interesting as all. And
00:16:53
it's interesting too because I agree
00:16:55
with you and it's interesting that when
00:16:56
they were pressed about it they Alex
00:16:59
said to the detective somebody told him
00:17:01
>> that's the thing like somebody informed
00:17:03
for him
00:17:03
>> and somebody informed me that we were
00:17:05
being mentally abused.
00:17:06
>> Yes. Not even physically which is
00:17:09
>> which again
00:17:11
either is worse than the other.
00:17:13
>> No,
00:17:13
>> but it's just it's very interesting.
00:17:15
>> It is.
00:17:16
>> Yeah. So, several people involved, we've
00:17:18
gone over it, tried to and really seemed
00:17:21
determined to convince Detective
00:17:22
Sanderson and the other investigators
00:17:24
that Terry King was abusing his
00:17:26
children. But none was more emphatic
00:17:28
about that than Ricky Chavis. And the
00:17:31
other person who had talked about it was
00:17:32
Jimmy Walker, their grand father, their
00:17:35
stepgrandfather. But he was told by
00:17:37
Ricky Chavis.
00:17:38
>> Yeah.
00:17:39
>> That Terry was being abusive. He never
00:17:41
said he saw anything.
00:17:42
>> And he's the maternal stepgrandfather.
00:17:44
the maternal step grandfather. Yes.
00:17:47
>> So, based on his own interviews with
00:17:49
Dererick and Alex, Sanderson was pretty
00:17:51
sure that the boys killed their father.
00:17:53
Like, they had all the details,
00:17:54
>> but he couldn't help but think there was
00:17:56
more to this going on than what he was
00:17:59
told.
00:17:59
>> Mhm.
00:18:00
>> And he just kept going back to Ricky
00:18:03
Chavis because Ricky Chavis is
00:18:04
everywhere in this investigation. He's
00:18:06
at the crime scene within less than an
00:18:08
hour of the fire. By the way, his name
00:18:11
came up in almost every other interview
00:18:12
conducted. He got the mysterious call
00:18:15
that led to the boy's discovery, which
00:18:17
was like very He literally He said he
00:18:19
literally pulled up his car to the
00:18:21
convenience store as they were coming
00:18:22
out of the woods.
00:18:23
>> Yeah. Like that's wild.
00:18:26
>> When it came to the abuse narrative, it
00:18:28
was becoming increasingly clear that he
00:18:30
was the one pushing that, too.
00:18:32
>> I'm really glad that the police, like
00:18:33
the investigators, didn't take this at
00:18:36
face value.
00:18:37
>> Yeah.
00:18:38
>> Cuz it would have been easy for them to
00:18:39
do so and just clear it.
00:18:40
>> Yeah. I mean, two kids are telling you
00:18:42
they're being abused and two kids are
00:18:44
just telling you like, "We did it."
00:18:45
>> Mhm.
00:18:46
>> And we were being abused and that's why
00:18:48
>> end of story. Like, they could have just
00:18:49
been like clearcut. There's the motive.
00:18:51
There's the suspects. Like, we can just
00:18:54
move forward with this and like Ricky's
00:18:55
weird. I don't know. Like, they could
00:18:57
have just moved forward.
00:18:58
>> It's honestly great detective work in my
00:19:00
opinion. And also Ricky Chav is just
00:19:02
being a [ __ ] idiot and like which
00:19:04
like thankfully, but he's just in
00:19:06
interjecting himself into everything. He
00:19:09
He truly can't help it,
00:19:11
>> which is a good thing.
00:19:12
>> It's clear.
00:19:13
>> So, given all the places that his name
00:19:15
had popped up, it came as no surprise to
00:19:17
Detective Sanderson that Ricky's name
00:19:19
also came up several times in Alex's
00:19:21
interview. Alex's answers were a lot
00:19:23
less coherent and detailed than his
00:19:25
brothers. But it was clear that Ricky
00:19:27
was the one who told both of them they
00:19:28
were being abused. Alex said, "We had
00:19:31
talked a lot about it and we were good
00:19:32
friends." He said that he'd done mental
00:19:34
abuse and he told me about it and I
00:19:37
started getting stronger because I knew
00:19:38
what it was and I found a way to sort of
00:19:40
just deflect.
00:19:42
>> Now he's sitting here saying, by the
00:19:44
way, as a 12-year-old that Ricky Chavis,
00:19:48
40 years old, is his good friend who he
00:19:51
spends a lot of time with.
00:19:52
>> That's what struck me.
00:19:53
>> No 40year-old is friends with a
00:19:55
12-year-old.
00:19:56
>> No. And if they are,
00:19:57
>> it's [ __ ] weird.
00:19:58
>> Red flag.
00:19:59
>> [ __ ] weird. I don't care what anybody
00:20:02
else's opinion is on that.
00:20:05
>> That's weird.
00:20:06
>> It is. [music]
00:20:18
[music]
00:20:20
So, it was clear from his interview that
00:20:22
Alex felt a lot of affection,
00:20:24
specifically Alex felt a lot of
00:20:26
affection toward Ricky. Yeah. and that
00:20:28
Ricky obviously had a very strong
00:20:30
influence on him. So now Detective
00:20:32
Sanderson is like he's sitting here
00:20:35
wondering did Ricky use this influence
00:20:38
to convince the boys to kill Terry?
00:20:41
>> Like that's it's leading in that
00:20:43
direction. But if that's the case, what
00:20:45
could he why would he want that to
00:20:47
happen? Like what would he possibly gain
00:20:48
from that?
00:20:50
>> It didn't take very long for
00:20:51
investigators to find out why Ricky
00:20:53
Chavis had been so eager to spend time
00:20:56
with Alex and Derek. Oh god. A quick
00:20:58
background check revealed that among
00:21:00
other things, in 1984 he had been
00:21:02
arrested and convicted of sexual
00:21:04
misconduct for sexually abusing two boys
00:21:07
in their early teens.
00:21:09
>> [ __ ]
00:21:09
>> So he has a type because he's a [ __ ]
00:21:11
pedophile.
00:21:12
>> He's disgusting.
00:21:13
>> So that added a very troubling new layer
00:21:16
to the case. But Detective Sanderson and
00:21:18
other investigators would also learn
00:21:20
that Chavis' connection went a lot
00:21:21
deeper than they imagined.
00:21:24
In the next few days, as the family
00:21:25
combed the wreckage of the king's house,
00:21:27
the boy's other grandfather, Jimmy
00:21:29
French, so they have two grandfathers
00:21:31
named Jimmy. Whoa.
00:21:32
>> This other grandfather found a notebook
00:21:34
buried in the ashes of what was Alex's
00:21:36
bedroom. And it was pretty well
00:21:38
preserved, written on the front in
00:21:39
Alex's handwriting. It said, "Biography,
00:21:41
do not read," which like it's just his
00:21:44
kid.
00:21:45
>> Yeah. So Jimmy French flipped through
00:21:47
the notebook obviously because he's like
00:21:49
this like my grandson is saying that his
00:21:52
dad was abusing him and like him and his
00:21:54
brother decided to kill him over it.
00:21:55
Like there's got to be something in
00:21:56
here.
00:21:56
>> Maybe there's something in here.
00:21:57
>> So that turned out like I said to be
00:21:59
basically a diary and within a few
00:22:01
seconds he was seriously alarmed by the
00:22:03
context and immediately turned it over
00:22:05
to investigators.
00:22:07
In a lot of ways, Alex's diary was kind
00:22:09
of what you would expect from somebody
00:22:10
his age, like you know, mundane stories
00:22:13
of the day-to-day. But sprinkled
00:22:15
throughout there were increasingly
00:22:16
concerning entries about Ricky Chavis. I
00:22:20
don't want to like quote anything
00:22:21
because I'm not going to quote
00:22:22
somebody's diary, but the early entries
00:22:25
talked about meeting Ricky, how great it
00:22:27
was, and how they were getting closer.
00:22:30
But as the entries went further, they
00:22:33
took on a more romantic tone. It was
00:22:35
very clear. Eventually, Alex wrote about
00:22:38
realizing that he was gay because of
00:22:40
Ricky. Wow. Um, and as Detective
00:22:42
Sanderson, once he got the journal,
00:22:44
continued reading, it became clear that
00:22:46
while Alex's affection and infatuation
00:22:49
with Chavis were obvious, those feelings
00:22:51
were not one-sided at all and whatever
00:22:53
was going on between them, it had been
00:22:55
initiated by Chavis and was continued by
00:22:59
Chavis, a 40year-old man.
00:23:02
>> Yeah. Doing so many
00:23:05
12year-old.
00:23:05
>> Yeah. He's a disgusting monster.
00:23:07
>> He's a pig.
00:23:08
>> Yeah. So based on everything they
00:23:10
learned from the interviews and now from
00:23:12
the evidence, it was clear that Ricky
00:23:13
Chavis had played some kind of role in
00:23:15
Terry King's death.
00:23:16
>> Yeah. And now it looks like we're
00:23:17
getting a motive here.
00:23:18
>> Yeah. And it was also very clear that he
00:23:20
had been sexually abusing at least one
00:23:22
of these boys. Prosecutor David Rimer
00:23:24
said, "I think he planted the seeds in
00:23:26
their mind. And I think he got the idea
00:23:28
that if their father was dead, they
00:23:29
could go live with Chavis. He had told
00:23:31
them that." That is so [ __ ] up beyond
00:23:35
measure. It's diabolical. And mind you,
00:23:39
Terry King made the acquaintance of
00:23:41
Ricky Chavis when he was like down on
00:23:43
his luck and really just turning things
00:23:45
around and just trusted enough in
00:23:48
another guy
00:23:49
>> that he was wanting to help him.
00:23:52
>> So Ricky Chavis took not only the
00:23:54
advantage of a child,
00:23:55
>> but a a man his own like a full
00:23:58
situation. And it wasn't the first time
00:24:00
he had done it.
00:24:01
>> E. So the problem here was though that
00:24:04
when it came to the murder and the
00:24:05
arson, all of the evidence, including
00:24:07
the confessions, pointed directly at
00:24:09
Derek and Alex.
00:24:11
>> So they weren't able to charge Chavis
00:24:13
with the more serious crimes of arson
00:24:15
and murder. But Rimmer took the
00:24:17
alternative approach of charging him as
00:24:19
an accessory after the fact because he
00:24:21
was convinced that he had aided the boys
00:24:23
in the murder and hidden them somewhere
00:24:25
after the crime.
00:24:25
>> That makes total sense. So, and it
00:24:28
became the theory that he basically like
00:24:31
they were living in his trailer and they
00:24:32
must have gone somewhere because like
00:24:35
the detective was coming to the house
00:24:36
when they were there, but like he's
00:24:38
believed to have helped them wash the
00:24:40
blood out of their clothes and let them
00:24:41
stay there after.
00:24:42
>> Wow.
00:24:43
>> So, he fully thought that they were just
00:24:45
going to like all live together.
00:24:47
>> And now he's just fully throwing this on
00:24:50
them, too. I'm like, "So, not only are
00:24:52
you a [ __ ] monster, pedophile,
00:24:54
predator piece of [ __ ] y
00:24:57
>> but then at the end of the day, you have
00:24:59
brought these kids in. You have groomed
00:25:01
them
00:25:02
>> y
00:25:02
>> horrifically to make them like
00:25:05
completely infatuated with you and able
00:25:08
do willing to do your bidding."
00:25:09
>> And specifically the younger one.
00:25:11
>> Yeah, the specifically the younger one.
00:25:13
And now when everything is going down,
00:25:15
you threw them so hard under the bus.
00:25:17
>> Oh, just wait. Like you piece of
00:25:19
absolute [ __ ] Just [ __ ] wait. Also,
00:25:22
>> like talk about lighting the grenade and
00:25:24
throwing it and walking away. Like [ __ ]
00:25:28
>> This is his MMO. This is who he is. This
00:25:30
is what he does. Look up a picture of
00:25:32
him. Also, he has the most punchable
00:25:33
[ __ ] face. And I can say that cuz
00:25:35
he's a pedophile.
00:25:36
>> Yeah. [ __ ] that. So, on December 13th,
00:25:38
the same day that Derek and Alex were
00:25:40
arraigned on charges of first-degree
00:25:42
murder, Ricky Chavis was arraigned on
00:25:44
being on on one count of being an
00:25:46
accessory after the fact to murder.
00:25:49
>> He has the most punchable face I've ever
00:25:52
seen.
00:25:53
>> He looks
00:25:55
exactly like who he is.
00:25:57
>> So, it would take more than a year for
00:25:59
Derek, Alex, and Ricky's trials to
00:26:01
begin. And in that time, more and more
00:26:04
information started trickling out about
00:26:05
Ricky's past. And none of it was good
00:26:08
information. He had spent nearly his
00:26:10
entire adult life making a living
00:26:12
through criminal ways. He sold weed. He
00:26:15
fixed up cars, but he like stole things
00:26:17
and resold them and had other people do
00:26:19
his bidding. He didn't have a lot of
00:26:21
bills to pay, and he earned a lot more
00:26:22
money selling drugs than he knew what to
00:26:24
do with. So, his trailer became a
00:26:26
popular spot with local teenagers who he
00:26:28
would invite to the house and pry with
00:26:30
alcohol and drugs.
00:26:31
>> Ew,
00:26:32
>> he's a predator.
00:26:33
>> He's disgusting. once he'd won these
00:26:35
boys over and they felt indebted to him
00:26:37
because they they get to go hang out at
00:26:39
Ricky's house and it's so fun and he
00:26:41
gives us alcohol and he lets us smoke
00:26:43
and ly da
00:26:44
>> he sounds like Dean Coral.
00:26:46
>> Yeah, he actually
00:26:48
>> he's very reminiscent the like candy
00:26:50
man. Candy man. Yeah,
00:26:51
>> he sounds exactly like that actually.
00:26:54
>> So once he won them over and they felt
00:26:56
indebted to him, he would inevitably
00:26:57
make some small quote unquote small
00:26:59
request in exchange for his kindness and
00:27:01
his generosity that he had showed them.
00:27:03
So in time he basically formed his own
00:27:05
like teenage criminal organization made
00:27:07
up of the boys that he had groomed and
00:27:10
met around town and quote unquote be
00:27:12
befriended. So in exchange for allowing
00:27:14
them to drink and to use drugs at his
00:27:16
house, they would help him with whatever
00:27:17
petty crimes he was into that day.
00:27:20
>> Wow.
00:27:20
>> At first it was small things like
00:27:22
stealing go-karts, bicycles, other
00:27:24
things. But in time, things got to the
00:27:26
point where he was forcing these teens
00:27:28
to break into houses of neighbors and
00:27:31
steal from them. What the [ __ ]
00:27:33
>> And each successful theft increased
00:27:35
their confidence and led to more jobs.
00:27:37
And with each one, they got more and
00:27:39
more bonded and felt obliged to do
00:27:42
whatever he told them to do.
00:27:43
>> Yeah. Cuz now there's blackmail. He can
00:27:45
just be like, "Oh, I'll turn you in."
00:27:47
>> He
00:27:49
the way his brain works is so [ __ ]
00:27:52
>> So for most of the boys who spent time
00:27:53
with Ricky over the years, their
00:27:55
activities were limited to drinking,
00:27:57
getting high, committing petty theft.
00:27:59
But there were some other boys that
00:28:00
Ricky took a more personal interest in.
00:28:03
After the typical strategy of a
00:28:04
predator, he would encourage them to
00:28:06
spend time alone with him, give them
00:28:08
gifts, groom them until he was sure that
00:28:10
they weren't going to reject his sexual
00:28:12
advances.
00:28:13
>> He's disgusting.
00:28:14
>> It makes me sick.
00:28:15
>> Yeah.
00:28:16
>> So, the fact that he managed to get away
00:28:17
with the theft and child abuse for so
00:28:19
many years is pretty much a testament to
00:28:21
the kind of people that he targeted. He
00:28:23
targeted boys who like were in
00:28:26
marginalized communities and like whose
00:28:28
parents maybe weren't around very often
00:28:29
didn't know that this was happening.
00:28:31
>> Yeah.
00:28:31
>> According to Katherine Mico and Molly
00:28:34
Barrows, who again we'll link their book
00:28:36
in the show note in the show notes, at
00:28:37
least one of the boys mothers was
00:28:39
informed by her 9-year-old son, and this
00:28:42
is a lot, just trigger warning, that
00:28:44
Ricky had exposed himself to him and his
00:28:47
brother. And this piece of [ __ ] garbage
00:28:50
sorry ass excuse for a mother didn't
00:28:52
call the police.
00:28:55
>> I don't even know how to respond to
00:28:56
that.
00:28:57
>> Yeah, you're a piece of [ __ ]
00:28:58
>> Yeah, I don't even know how to respond
00:28:59
to that.
00:29:00
>> It wasn't until 1985 that upon learning
00:29:03
of her son's quote unquote sexual
00:29:05
relationship, which by the way, as a
00:29:08
child you can't have a relationship with
00:29:09
a grown person,
00:29:10
>> rape,
00:29:11
>> one of the boys's mothers finally
00:29:13
pressed charges and Ricky was prosecuted
00:29:15
and sent to prison. Jesus.
00:29:17
>> It was his second offense at that point,
00:29:20
by the way. But he ultimately only
00:29:22
served three years.
00:29:24
>> Three years
00:29:24
>> of a 9-year sentence
00:29:26
>> for being a Wow. Okay.
00:29:28
>> He's a child predator. This is his
00:29:30
second offense and they sentenced him to
00:29:31
9 years and don't do it again.
00:29:34
>> Yeah. It's worked out so well. Every
00:29:36
time he let these kind of people go
00:29:38
roaming around again, they'd never do it
00:29:40
again. It's crazy.
00:29:41
>> It's insane.
00:29:42
>> Yeah. So it was during that prison
00:29:44
sentence that he became friendly with
00:29:46
one of the prison guards, Deputy Reggie
00:29:49
Jernigan.
00:29:50
>> Oh yeah.
00:29:52
>> So wait, just to be clear, this child
00:29:55
predator in prison became friends with a
00:29:58
prison guard.
00:29:58
>> Yeah.
00:29:59
>> Um, [ __ ] you.
00:30:01
>> Literally [laughter] [ __ ] you.
00:30:02
>> [ __ ] you or disgusting.
00:30:03
>> Literally [ __ ] you. Really weird to make
00:30:05
friends with a child predator.
00:30:06
>> Yeah. Especially considering prison has
00:30:08
a pretty [ __ ] clear hierarchy of
00:30:10
where they lay. Yeah, apparently you the
00:30:13
prison guard are like, I'm gonna
00:30:14
befriend this guy.
00:30:15
>> Yeah, this guy seems great.
00:30:16
>> Seems like a good guy.
00:30:17
>> I mean, you probably didn't do it.
00:30:19
>> Yeah. Okay.
00:30:20
>> So, yeah, that's all a lot.
00:30:23
>> The information about his past that was
00:30:25
appearing in the papers day after day
00:30:27
definitely gave credence to the
00:30:29
prosecution's theory that he managed to
00:30:30
convince Derk and Alex to kill their
00:30:32
dad.
00:30:33
>> But when he was asked directly by
00:30:34
reporters and detectives, he just
00:30:36
repeatedly denied playing any role in
00:30:38
Terry's death. He said only that he
00:30:40
allowed the boys to stay on his house on
00:30:42
two occasions where they ran away and
00:30:44
that was that. When he was asked very
00:30:46
directly whether he had been sexually
00:30:48
abusing either of the boys, he said,
00:30:50
"I'm not sexually active. I've been out
00:30:52
of it 8 n years or better."
00:30:55
>> I've been out of it. Out of it like out
00:30:57
of child predator behavior. Like what?
00:31:01
Because you were convicted of that. So
00:31:03
you are a child predator.
00:31:05
>> Yep.
00:31:05
>> Okay, cool. So despite his repeated
00:31:08
denials, as the months passed, his true
00:31:10
nature got the better of him because
00:31:12
he's a [ __ ] predator and he can't
00:31:13
help himself. And he tried to stay in
00:31:17
contact with Alex. Are you [ __ ]
00:31:20
kidding me? No. In January 2002, guards
00:31:23
at the county jail found him trying to
00:31:26
scratch a note into a concrete floor of
00:31:28
the recreation yard with like the sharp
00:31:30
corner of a rock. At that time, he got
00:31:33
as far as Alex don't trust before he was
00:31:36
stopped and dragged back to his cell.
00:31:39
Which, by the way, can we all just take
00:31:41
a minute to realize that they were
00:31:43
locked up in the same prison as the
00:31:45
person who was grooming them or at the
00:31:47
very least grooming Alex?
00:31:51
>> Wow.
00:31:52
>> Why the [ __ ] in a million years were
00:31:54
they ever placed in the same prison?
00:31:57
>> Wow. Like I don't even
00:31:59
>> The miscarriage of justice there alone
00:32:00
is nuts.
00:32:01
>> That's wild.
00:32:02
>> Two months later in late March, another
00:32:05
message for Alex was discovered
00:32:06
scratched into the wall of a courthouse
00:32:08
holding cell.
00:32:09
>> The message didn't have a signature, but
00:32:12
it was obviously believed to have been
00:32:13
left there by Ricky Chavis, who had been
00:32:15
in that cell and been held there for 6
00:32:17
days just prior to the discovery of the
00:32:20
message. The note read, "Hang in there.
00:32:22
It will work out if nothing changes in
00:32:24
the testimony. You know who not to
00:32:26
trust. They are just keeping us apart
00:32:29
until this is over. It literally makes
00:32:31
me physically
00:32:32
>> This boy is 12
00:32:33
>> and this man is 40.
00:32:35
>> This boy is 12 and this man is 40.
00:32:39
>> They are just I can't even They're
00:32:40
keeping us apart.
00:32:41
>> If nothing changes in the testimony like
00:32:44
I'm like
00:32:45
>> interesting.
00:32:45
>> Okay. So it was almost like he had like
00:32:47
a pathological compulsion to implicate
00:32:49
himself in this crime at this point. And
00:32:51
he was just confident that prosecutors
00:32:53
couldn't find evidence substantial
00:32:54
enough to charge him with anything other
00:32:56
than being an accessory.
00:32:58
>> But then to everybody's surprise, a
00:33:00
grand jury indicted him for murder
00:33:03
>> after hearing a secret testimony from
00:33:06
Derek and Alex in April. Like Derek and
00:33:08
Alex, Ricky Chavis now faced a life
00:33:11
sentence in prison without the
00:33:13
possibility of parole. [ __ ]
00:33:15
>> which is the mandatory sentence for
00:33:17
murder in Florida.
00:33:18
>> So, prosecutor David Rimemer had spent
00:33:20
months prepping his case against the
00:33:22
boys based mostly on their own
00:33:23
confession. But the indictment of Ricky
00:33:25
Chavis in April was a very unexpected
00:33:27
twist and it proved to be just the first
00:33:29
of multiple twists that were going to
00:33:30
complicate things for everybody. So,
00:33:33
after the boys testified for the grand
00:33:35
jury in April and those new charges got
00:33:37
brought up, David Rimmer started hearing
00:33:39
rumors that Dererick and Alex were
00:33:41
changing their story again and wanted to
00:33:43
recant their confessions. Now,
00:33:45
>> those rumors were proved true when in
00:33:47
August he got word from their lawyer
00:33:49
with an official request to change the
00:33:51
statement. So, now they claimed, and
00:33:54
this is interesting. I I think this gets
00:33:56
tossed to the side in a lot of the
00:33:57
things that I read, but it to me it's
00:33:59
interesting. They said on the night of
00:34:01
the murder, they went with Ricky to the
00:34:03
house and they waited in the car while
00:34:05
he went inside and killed Terry with a
00:34:07
baseball bat. According to Derek, Ricky
00:34:10
asked them to take the blame because the
00:34:11
court would go easier on them. And he
00:34:13
said he promised his mom before she died
00:34:16
that he'd never get locked up again.
00:34:18
>> That's so specific.
00:34:19
>> That's like really specific.
00:34:21
>> And it's such predator behavior.
00:34:23
>> Yeah. It was also during that period
00:34:26
that Alex confirmed investigator
00:34:27
suspicions that Chapas had been sexually
00:34:29
abusing him. He find he he told himself.
00:34:33
>> So to the press and public, the news
00:34:35
story kind of came as a relief in a way.
00:34:37
It was a lot easier to accept that a
00:34:39
child predator had committed murder
00:34:41
rather than two children against a
00:34:43
complete piece of [ __ ] garbage.
00:34:44
>> Exactly. The family was equally relieved
00:34:47
to hear the story. The boy's
00:34:48
grandmother, Linda Walker, told a
00:34:50
reporter, "They found out they wouldn't
00:34:51
get away with it. We knew they were
00:34:53
hiding something.
00:34:54
>> Damn.
00:34:54
>> So, while the press and public were
00:34:56
eager to believe this new version of
00:34:58
Alex and Derek's story, the team at the
00:35:00
prosecutor's office, they found it to be
00:35:02
too convenient. Investigators did always
00:35:05
suspect that Ricky had played some role
00:35:07
in Tererry's death, but they also
00:35:10
believed the initial confession that
00:35:12
Dererick had been the one to kill his
00:35:13
father. Prosecutor Rimmer said, "The
00:35:16
boys weren't saying that he helped him.
00:35:17
They were just trying to dump the whole
00:35:19
thing on Chavis. That made me suspicious
00:35:21
because I knew that wasn't true. I knew
00:35:23
they were there.
00:35:24
>> I mean, which I get that because the way
00:35:26
that it he described this I mean uh the
00:35:29
sounds that the Yeah, Derek described
00:35:31
the sounds that the bat made when it
00:35:33
connected with a skull and it's pretty
00:35:35
accurate.
00:35:35
>> It's pretty accurate
00:35:36
>> and it's something that I don't think a
00:35:37
kid would just pull out of their ass.
00:35:39
>> No, I don't think so either. But it does
00:35:41
make you wonder
00:35:42
>> if they were just
00:35:43
>> were you just there
00:35:45
>> and you're just trying to remove
00:35:46
yourself like a little bit further. it.
00:35:49
I mean,
00:35:49
>> I could see it going.
00:35:50
>> I could see I could see it that Ricky
00:35:52
was the one who swung the bat and the
00:35:53
boys were there.
00:35:54
>> Mhm. You never know, but again, I have
00:35:56
no idea.
00:35:58
>> So, Ricky Chavis did go on trial for
00:36:00
murder in August 2002 under the somewhat
00:36:02
unusual circumstances of having one jury
00:36:05
decide the verdict on the murder charge
00:36:07
and another jury decide the verdict in
00:36:10
the arson and accessory charge. It's
00:36:12
like very strange. So, the trial for the
00:36:15
charge of lewd and lascivious behavior
00:36:17
against a child was scheduled for later
00:36:19
that year. As expected, Ricky Chavis's
00:36:22
lawyer argued that while Ricky admitted
00:36:24
to hiding the boys after the murder and
00:36:26
lying to the police, he did not help uh
00:36:29
kill Terry King. Ricky Chavis said to uh
00:36:32
to reporters, "My big problem is that I
00:36:34
like to help people. It ain't true that
00:36:36
I was there. That's a setup. It's all I
00:36:37
can tell you." They were coached into
00:36:39
it. Like, nah, your big problem is that
00:36:42
you're a child predator.
00:36:44
>> Yeah, that's your big problem.
00:36:46
>> So, from David Rimemer's perspective,
00:36:48
he's the DA.
00:36:49
>> This strategy of putting Ricky Chavis on
00:36:51
trial before Derek and Alex did come
00:36:53
with a pretty big risk. The evidence
00:36:55
against Ricky was circumstantial, and
00:36:58
charging him with murder kind of seemed
00:36:59
like a guaranteed loss. So instead, he
00:37:02
ended up being charged with being a
00:37:04
principal to murder,
00:37:05
>> which basically means that whoever is
00:37:08
being charged is indirectly responsible
00:37:11
for the murder itself.
00:37:12
>> Okay.
00:37:12
>> They didn't commit it, but they're
00:37:14
responsible.
00:37:15
>> Yeah.
00:37:15
>> Which kind of makes sense in this case
00:37:16
because you're talking about the murder
00:37:18
committed by two minors if
00:37:20
>> that's it.
00:37:21
>> Yeah.
00:37:22
>> So for this strategy to work, Rimmer had
00:37:25
to call Derek and Alex to testify, which
00:37:27
was another big risk. and he knew there
00:37:30
was a good possibility that they would
00:37:31
tell the revised version of their story
00:37:33
rather than their initial confession,
00:37:35
which did imply Ricky Chavis's
00:37:37
involvement as a principle.
00:37:39
>> Yeah.
00:37:39
>> So, if they had stuck with their
00:37:40
original story, it could have worked out
00:37:43
a little bit better because it already
00:37:46
>> kind of put that there.
00:37:47
>> Exactly. But when they were called to
00:37:49
testify against Chavis, they told their
00:37:52
version of the story that Ricky had been
00:37:54
sexually abusing Alex and killed their
00:37:56
father to prevent them from stopping the
00:37:58
relationship.
00:37:59
When asked by David Rimemer why he
00:38:01
changed his story after initially
00:38:03
confessing to committing the murder
00:38:04
himself, Derek said, "Because I don't
00:38:06
want to spend the rest of my life in
00:38:07
prison covering for somebody else's
00:38:09
act."
00:38:10
>> Wow.
00:38:10
>> Which, mind you, I think he's 14 at this
00:38:13
point when he's testifying, but like
00:38:15
>> that's so [ __ ] heavy. Also, you look
00:38:19
at pictures of them, they look even
00:38:21
young.
00:38:21
>> Oh, they look so young.
00:38:22
>> They look like babies.
00:38:23
>> It's actually like horrifying. It really
00:38:25
is. I couldn't handle.
00:38:26
>> When I looked at the pictures, cuz
00:38:27
that's the pictures I was talking about
00:38:28
when I said I looked up the case and saw
00:38:30
the pictures,
00:38:31
>> it's like them in court and [ __ ]
00:38:33
>> They look like they're like literally
00:38:34
look like children. Like if you told me
00:38:36
they were both like eight and nine, I'd
00:38:38
be like, "Yeah,
00:38:38
>> yeah, they look young."
00:38:39
>> Yeah.
00:38:40
>> So Derek explained on stand that Chavis
00:38:42
had convinced both boys that their
00:38:44
father was mentally abusing them and
00:38:45
that they could get away with the murder
00:38:47
if they confessed and he couldn't. So,
00:38:49
they had to do this and claim
00:38:51
self-defense and that they would get
00:38:52
away with it and they'd all be able to
00:38:54
basically live happily ever after,
00:38:55
>> which does make sense.
00:38:56
>> Yeah, it does. So, regardless of guilt
00:38:59
or innocence, Dererick and Alex's
00:39:00
appearance on the witness stand were a
00:39:02
demonstration of how, like we were just
00:39:04
saying, truly young both of these boys
00:39:06
were and how unbelievable the charges
00:39:08
against them sounded. According to one
00:39:10
reporter, sometimes Derek couldn't
00:39:12
follow the attorney's questions and
00:39:13
couldn't remember all the details of the
00:39:14
murder, a prior confession, and his
00:39:17
grand jury testimony. Which, like, of
00:39:19
course he can. He's a kid. This is
00:39:21
incredibly overwhelming. And he has a
00:39:23
multitude of other trauma.
00:39:25
>> And to think if this kid did this,
00:39:27
you're just like, whoa. Like,
00:39:29
>> so at multiple points during his own
00:39:31
testimony, Dererick's eyes welled up
00:39:32
with tears when he talked about his
00:39:34
father. Alex's testimony was equally
00:39:36
heartbreaking, particularly when Rimmer
00:39:38
read parts of his diary out loud and
00:39:41
asked the boy directly whether he had a
00:39:43
quote sexual relationship with Chavis
00:39:46
and he replied, "Yes, I did." Which is a
00:39:48
[ __ ] up question because a kid cannot
00:39:51
have a sexual relationship with an
00:39:53
adult.
00:39:54
>> They are being raped by that adult.
00:39:56
>> And unfortunately, the question needs to
00:39:58
be posed that way. It does.
00:39:59
>> Were you raped by this man?
00:40:01
>> Were you being sexually abused by this
00:40:03
adult? That hits a lot harder to a jury.
00:40:05
>> Yeah. Not were you in a sexual
00:40:06
relationship? You can't consent to that
00:40:08
and it looks like this has been
00:40:10
happening for a while.
00:40:11
>> Exactly. It's like this is a child
00:40:13
predator convicted.
00:40:15
>> Damn.
00:40:16
>> I hate when things are worded like that.
00:40:18
It drives me cases like this
00:40:19
>> because it again it hits harder for a
00:40:21
jury when it's said the right way
00:40:23
>> and it like you said it changes things.
00:40:26
[music]
00:40:31
>> [music]
00:40:39
>> But after both sides rested their case,
00:40:41
uh, Judge Frank Bell considered the
00:40:43
evidence and ultimately threw out the
00:40:45
charge of being a principal to murder on
00:40:47
the grounds that there wasn't enough
00:40:49
evidence to support the claim. But he
00:40:51
said there was quote just enough
00:40:52
evidence to proceed with a charge of
00:40:54
murder.
00:40:55
>> So he wants a direct charge of murder.
00:40:57
>> Okay. which is interesting. So, Belle's
00:41:00
judgment came after DA Rimemer played
00:41:02
the boy's taped confession for the jury,
00:41:04
where Derek makes it clear he committed
00:41:06
the murder and makes no mention of Ricky
00:41:08
Chavis's involvement. And Judge Bell
00:41:10
said there's plenty of evidence in this
00:41:12
trial of what he did after the fact,
00:41:14
meaning Ricky, but the trial is to be
00:41:16
decided at a later time. So with his
00:41:19
revised instructions, which were like
00:41:21
pretty confusing,
00:41:22
>> yeah,
00:41:22
>> the jury went to their chambers to
00:41:24
deliberate whether the state had made a
00:41:25
strong enough case to support a
00:41:27
conviction for murder. The outcome of
00:41:29
their deliberation would be sealed until
00:41:32
Derek and Alex's trial was complete,
00:41:34
though.
00:41:35
>> Holy [ __ ]
00:41:35
>> This is all super messy.
00:41:37
>> Yeah. So, in his decision to keep the
00:41:39
verdict sealed, Judge Bell cited
00:41:41
potential for the jury in Dererick and
00:41:43
Alex's trial to be influenced over the
00:41:45
verdict in the Chavis case, and that's
00:41:46
why he was having it sealed.
00:41:48
>> Okay.
00:41:48
>> Which like I get, but it's tricky.
00:41:52
>> It is tricky. It's for sure tricky. You
00:41:54
can understand the thought process
00:41:55
behind it.
00:41:56
>> Definitely. I think he was doing his
00:41:58
best. So, Derek and Alex King's trial
00:42:00
began in September and prosecutor David
00:42:02
Rimer, same prosecutor, presented pretty
00:42:04
much the same case that he had in the
00:42:06
Chavis trial. And when called to the
00:42:08
stand, both boys remained committed to
00:42:09
their revised story. Alex told the
00:42:11
court, "Ricky told us that there had
00:42:13
been a fight, that he he said he killed
00:42:15
my dad to protect us." According to
00:42:18
Alex, he and Derek hid in the trunk of
00:42:20
Mr. Chavis's car while Ricky was inside
00:42:22
killing their father, and that they only
00:42:24
learned about the murder once they were
00:42:26
back at Chavis' house later that night.
00:42:28
He said, and this is awful, he said, "I
00:42:30
wanted to be with Rick because I was in
00:42:32
love with Rick." He said, "My dad would
00:42:34
have killed us before he would have let
00:42:35
us go.
00:42:37
And that was all fed to him.
00:42:39
>> Yeah, by the way.
00:42:40
>> Yeah, absolutely. It was, you know,
00:42:41
>> and also he doesn't know. Check the
00:42:43
trunk of his car for hair fibers.
00:42:45
>> I know.
00:42:46
>> Their hair is going to be in there if
00:42:47
they were in the trunk.
00:42:48
>> Great point. Like a
00:42:50
>> That didn't happen. Damn.
00:42:52
>> So,
00:42:52
>> I would have been like, "Go find a hair
00:42:54
in there. There's something in there."
00:42:55
>> Exactly. So, in closing, in his closing
00:42:57
statement to the jury, David Rimemer
00:42:59
reminded the jury of the brutal crime
00:43:00
that they were both accused of because
00:43:02
remember, he's the prosecutor
00:43:03
>> and that Terry is getting a little lost
00:43:06
in the sauce here is like, that's a
00:43:08
brutal [ __ ] murder.
00:43:09
>> And that's honestly such a good point to
00:43:11
bring up. He gets so lost in this story
00:43:13
because it's insane
00:43:14
>> cuz there's so much going on.
00:43:16
>> Yes. But I'm glad you said that. But he
00:43:19
warned David Rimer warned the jury not
00:43:22
to let the ages of the accused influence
00:43:23
their deliberation. He said, "You can't
00:43:25
go back there and say, "Those poor boys,
00:43:27
they're so young. How could they do this
00:43:29
horrible thing? It would be a
00:43:30
miscarriage of justice." Which is like
00:43:32
you, it's true at one on one side that
00:43:36
like
00:43:38
that like
00:43:40
>> that like if Dur took a baseball bat to
00:43:42
his father's head
00:43:43
>> that you do have to consider that as a
00:43:45
brutal crime that shouldn't have
00:43:47
happened, that took a man's life. I
00:43:50
think on the other side of that coin,
00:43:52
>> they are children who have gone through
00:43:54
an unimaginable amount of trauma.
00:43:56
>> Yeah. And they're being abused at the
00:43:57
hands of Ricky Chafers.
00:43:58
>> Yeah. And that and like that's the
00:44:00
thing. There's been so much warping of
00:44:02
their I think this case is a little too
00:44:04
nuanced for that closing statement in my
00:44:07
personal opinion.
00:44:08
>> I can I completely agree with
00:44:10
>> but also that he's a prosecutor with a
00:44:12
job.
00:44:12
>> Yeah, exactly. He's got to win a job.
00:44:14
But like it is absolutely more nuanced
00:44:16
than that because
00:44:17
>> when you think of it from the side of
00:44:19
Ricky Shavas
00:44:21
>> like doing all that he did and
00:44:24
convincing these boys and grooming them
00:44:25
and they're so young and like
00:44:27
impressionable and have gone through
00:44:28
this trauma and he's literally sexually
00:44:30
assaulting at least one of them.
00:44:32
>> Yeah, exactly. At least one of them.
00:44:34
>> And it's like so that makes you go well
00:44:36
[ __ ] like they're children
00:44:40
into this. So, it's like, and then you
00:44:42
look at it from the other side of like,
00:44:43
holy [ __ ] if that kid did just swing
00:44:45
that bat into his dad's head and murder
00:44:47
him, that's a very adult thing that you
00:44:50
just did.
00:44:51
>> But it's also
00:44:52
>> I have to think like when I say it out
00:44:54
loud, like that influence at that age
00:44:58
>> has to be considered at the very
00:45:01
>> least. Like, like you said, I think it's
00:45:03
just so much more nuanced than letting
00:45:05
that be the And again, that's his job,
00:45:07
right? But it's like you have to go back
00:45:09
there and you do. But that also makes
00:45:10
the jury decision so much.
00:45:13
>> I can't imagine sitting on this jury.
00:45:15
>> I don't know how what I would do on this
00:45:17
jury because you have to consider every
00:45:19
part of this.
00:45:20
>> Yeah.
00:45:21
>> So he reminded them uh DA Rimer reminded
00:45:24
the jury that Dererick and Alex's
00:45:25
original confession was supported by the
00:45:27
evidence, which is correct. Yeah.
00:45:29
>> And that they only changed their story
00:45:31
once it seemed positive that they could
00:45:32
pin this murder on somebody else, no
00:45:34
matter how [ __ ] disgusting that
00:45:35
person is. Mhm.
00:45:36
>> and diabolical. So, the jury deliberated
00:45:39
for days, spending most of the time
00:45:41
analyzing the taped confessions given by
00:45:43
Derek and Alex upon the initial uh
00:45:45
arrest. One juror said later, "As we
00:45:48
listened to them one by one, the thing
00:45:49
we came to right away was that they
00:45:51
sounded contrived, but there were some
00:45:53
parts of it that I knew were true. When
00:45:55
they describe how it sounded when their
00:45:57
dad got hit, you could tell that they
00:45:59
had seen what had happened."
00:46:00
>> That's where I sit is like in the room.
00:46:04
>> Yes, they were in that room. They were
00:46:05
not in the trunk of a car. At the end of
00:46:07
the day,
00:46:08
>> I don't know who I think swung.
00:46:11
>> I have no idea.
00:46:12
>> I could see it going both ways.
00:46:15
>> That's the thing.
00:46:15
>> But no matter what, in my opinion, at
00:46:17
the end of the day, I do think that at
00:46:19
least Derek was in the room with what he
00:46:22
described and the way he described it.
00:46:23
>> I think at least Derek was in the room.
00:46:25
So, in the end, the jury concluded that
00:46:27
it seemed highly unlikely that Dererick
00:46:29
and Alex had actually killed their
00:46:31
father, but they were still responsible
00:46:33
because they opened the door to the man
00:46:35
who had killed him, which
00:46:36
>> it was like a plan.
00:46:37
>> Yeah. Which they believe to be Chavis.
00:46:39
So, really, they're kind of like
00:46:40
principles to murder, but they're that's
00:46:42
not the charge here.
00:46:44
>> So, Alex and Derek were found both of
00:46:47
them were found guilty on seconddegree
00:46:49
murder without a weapon. And that
00:46:51
conviction carried a prison sentence of
00:46:52
up to 22 years in adult prison, which
00:46:56
like I just have to say when you think
00:46:59
of what they've already, at least Alex
00:47:01
has been through already, you're going
00:47:02
to go send him to adult prison.
00:47:05
>> That's the thing. It's like
00:47:06
>> you're going to send that child to adult
00:47:08
prison after he, you know, he's already
00:47:10
been abused.
00:47:11
>> That by an adult sense, especially when
00:47:14
there's other things you can do. There's
00:47:16
there's other options here.
00:47:18
>> That's the thing. there's other very
00:47:20
viable options that will still give a
00:47:23
consequence to an action.
00:47:25
>> And again, I know that this is a very
00:47:26
nuanced case, but I'm looking at those
00:47:30
>> key parts of it where you're going to
00:47:32
send him to adult prison. Like I can't
00:47:35
imagine hearing that as somebody that
00:47:37
like as a family member of his and
00:47:42
the the main thing here is what is that
00:47:46
going to do,
00:47:47
>> right? Because the whole thing, the
00:47:50
whole thing that we're supposedly
00:47:52
looking for here is rehabilitation.
00:47:54
Sending a child because he's now 13 at
00:47:57
this point to an adult prison, I don't
00:48:00
think is going to be a good
00:48:04
stepping stone in his rehabilitation.
00:48:06
>> He is going to be so further traumatized
00:48:08
that he's going to be lost, struggling
00:48:12
to even exist as a human being after
00:48:14
that. and we will find that he was
00:48:15
>> and he's going to learn the worst kind
00:48:17
of [ __ ] you can possibly learn and he's
00:48:20
going to be ret-raumatized in a myriad
00:48:23
of ways. It's like
00:48:24
>> and we will see that he was
00:48:26
>> and that's the like why are you not why
00:48:28
is no one why are all of these adults
00:48:30
not thinking about that? They're all
00:48:31
thinking yes this crime it's brutal.
00:48:34
There needs to be consequences that
00:48:36
people face for this. Absolutely. Terry
00:48:40
King lost justice here. You know what I
00:48:43
mean? like his and his family deserves
00:48:44
justice, but to put him in an adult
00:48:47
prison at 13 years old and honestly like
00:48:50
you do have to think about this family
00:48:52
because this family it lost their like
00:48:54
Terry's mother lost her son. Yeah.
00:48:56
>> But now she's facing losing her two
00:48:58
grandchildren who she's lost before.
00:49:00
>> Yeah. Exactly.
00:49:02
Like this is a lot.
00:49:03
>> To me the the easy thing for everybody
00:49:06
that should have been in front of
00:49:07
everybody's face is some some adult
00:49:09
should have stood up there and said
00:49:11
what's this going to do?
00:49:12
>> Yeah. They should. What are we getting
00:49:14
out of this?
00:49:14
>> I think in my personal opinion,
00:49:16
>> don't we want to help in this case? They
00:49:18
shouldn't have been tried as adults.
00:49:19
>> No, it's
00:49:20
>> I just don't think they should have.
00:49:21
>> It's like that trying as an adult and
00:49:23
giving an adult sentence in an adult
00:49:25
prison is like that an adult prison.
00:49:29
What the [ __ ] do you think is going to
00:49:31
happen there? It's like no, they need to
00:49:32
be in a place where they can get help.
00:49:37
>> Yeah.
00:49:37
>> To become a better person. Yeah, I don't
00:49:40
think
00:49:40
>> as their frontal lobe is developing.
00:49:42
>> I don't think we were thinking about
00:49:43
that in the early 2000s.
00:49:45
>> Wild.
00:49:46
>> It's upsetting.
00:49:47
>> That's really wild.
00:49:48
>> So, that was the sentence. And mind you,
00:49:51
they didn't get sentenced to that, but
00:49:52
that was what they were facing. In the
00:49:54
days that followed the verdict, the
00:49:56
outcome of Chavis's trial was unsealed.
00:49:58
He was found not guilty of murder.
00:50:02
>> Wow.
00:50:03
>> Now, remember, he has other trials to go
00:50:05
through, but he was found not guilty of
00:50:08
murder.
00:50:09
That's wild.
00:50:10
>> So, between the announcement of the
00:50:11
verdict, but before the sentencing phase
00:50:13
of the trial, Judge Bell considered the
00:50:15
situation and made a surprising
00:50:17
decision, which Judge [ __ ] Bell. He
00:50:20
said, "There's no question in my mind
00:50:22
based upon legal arguments and trial
00:50:23
transcripts that David and Alex King did
00:50:25
not receive due process." Yeah.
00:50:27
>> And I fully agree. From Belle's
00:50:30
perspective, Rimmer's choice to try
00:50:31
Ricky Chavis for the same crime before
00:50:33
he tried Dererick and Alex was a
00:50:35
violation of their rights, and it
00:50:37
influenced the jury.
00:50:38
>> Yeah. It also seemed absurd that a
00:50:41
separate jury could have found Dererick
00:50:42
and Alex guilty of participating in a
00:50:44
murder supposedly committed by a man who
00:50:47
previously had been found not guilty of
00:50:48
the same murder.
00:50:49
>> Yeah, that's wild.
00:50:50
>> None of it makes any sense.
00:50:51
>> So, under the circumstances, and this is
00:50:54
crazy, or this next part is crazy. So
00:50:57
under the circumstances, their defense
00:50:58
team immediately submitted for a motion
00:51:00
for a new trial and Judge Bell denied
00:51:02
that motion. But instead, he sent the
00:51:05
case to mediation,
00:51:07
which is a very unusual process where
00:51:10
the prosecution and the defense teams
00:51:12
have to come together to find a
00:51:14
compromise that they both find suitable.
00:51:17
>> H
00:51:17
>> which is like this doesn't happen.
00:51:19
>> Yeah. [laughter] Like
00:51:20
>> it happens very very rarely,
00:51:22
>> especially in something like this. Like
00:51:24
mediation is like for divorce cases like
00:51:26
[laughter] just like chill murder be
00:51:28
like do you want the the sofa and
00:51:32
>> that Yeah.
00:51:32
>> So after several weeks of mediation
00:51:35
Rimmer the DA offered a plea deal that
00:51:37
the defense found reasonable. Derek and
00:51:40
Alex would plead guilty to thirdderee
00:51:42
murder give an honest confession and in
00:51:44
exchange Derek would serve eight years
00:51:46
in a juvenile facility and Alex would
00:51:49
serve seven.
00:51:50
>> Okay.
00:51:50
>> So that's better.
00:51:52
>> Yeah. It's not awesome.
00:51:54
>> No.
00:51:54
>> But it's better.
00:51:55
>> Yeah.
00:51:56
>> And they did have to serve some kind of
00:51:58
prison time. A man lost his life.
00:52:00
>> Oh, 100%. And it's a juvenile facility.
00:52:03
It's a juvenile facility.
00:52:04
>> That was my main concern. A consequence
00:52:06
has to be had here.
00:52:07
>> You can't solve problems by taking an
00:52:10
aluminum bat to people's heads. And kids
00:52:12
do need to know learn that
00:52:14
>> with a consequence. I mean, you can't
00:52:16
just be like, "Don't do that again."
00:52:18
Like, that's a pretty big deal. Mh.
00:52:20
>> So it's like you need but they need to
00:52:21
be in a place where and again I don't
00:52:24
not every juvenile facility
00:52:26
>> I don't know how much juvie how how much
00:52:28
better juvie is than adult prison but
00:52:30
it's got to be at least a little
00:52:32
>> it's at least better in the fact that
00:52:33
you're not being put in there with grown
00:52:35
ass adults like that's
00:52:37
>> right
00:52:38
>> that's different. So there's that.
00:52:40
>> But who I it wasn't good for either of
00:52:43
the prison system is very [ __ ] up.
00:52:44
>> I was going to say the whole the whole
00:52:45
system is so flawed and and [ __ ]
00:52:48
>> It is. So when the time came to give
00:52:50
their confessions, which was part of the
00:52:51
deal, like I said, the story told by
00:52:53
both of them was very, very similar to
00:52:56
their first confession that they
00:52:57
immediately gave after their father's
00:52:58
death. So that and this is their quote
00:53:01
unquote honest confession.
00:53:02
>> So that likely could be what happened.
00:53:04
>> Okay. Still, I don't know what I
00:53:07
believe.
00:53:07
>> I have no idea.
00:53:08
>> So in the wake of the boy's plea deal,
00:53:10
Ricky Chavis went on trial for arson and
00:53:13
for being an accessory to murder after
00:53:15
the fact for aiding in a bedding. After
00:53:17
a brief deliberation, he was found
00:53:19
guilty on both counts and ultimately
00:53:21
sentenced to 30 years in prison.
00:53:22
>> Oh, hey. All right. Bye.
00:53:24
>> In his defense, his lawyer argued that
00:53:26
the sentence was seriously
00:53:28
disproportionate relative to the light
00:53:30
sentences given to Alex and Derek.
00:53:34
>> I'm sorry.
00:53:34
>> A 12 and 13year-old.
00:53:35
>> I'm sorry. What
00:53:36
>> he said? It's just simply not fair. This
00:53:38
is politics, judge. This is a
00:53:39
persecution, not a prosecution.
00:53:41
>> It's not fair. Scott,
00:53:43
>> life's not fair. Babe,
00:53:45
>> look at this. It's not fair that he's a
00:53:46
pedophile.
00:53:47
>> It's not fair that he's a pedophile.
00:53:48
It's not fair the life that these two
00:53:50
kids lived.
00:53:50
>> Yeah, it's not fair that he literally
00:53:52
consistently ruins the lives of
00:53:53
children. So,
00:53:54
>> thanks.
00:53:55
>> One year later, Chavis was acquitted of
00:53:57
the charge of lude and lascivious acts
00:53:59
upon a minor, which is absurd. He's
00:54:03
literally a no. He has a history of
00:54:06
being a child predator and another
00:54:08
child. Like, come on. Do you think that
00:54:12
was just like happen stance that he was
00:54:14
like, I'm not happen stance.
00:54:15
>> I'm going to say that this guy did this.
00:54:17
He also aided and abetted two [ __ ]
00:54:19
minors. That's weird.
00:54:20
>> Like, come on.
00:54:21
>> In this case, that's [ __ ] weird.
00:54:24
>> So, in 2008, Alex King was released from
00:54:26
a juvenile detention in Florida. And he
00:54:28
went to actually live with one of the
00:54:29
authors of the book that we linked in
00:54:31
the show notes, Katherine Mediko, who
00:54:33
was a journalism professor at the
00:54:35
University of West Florida. And he
00:54:37
became close with her during his time in
00:54:38
detention. One year later, Derek was
00:54:41
released from the Lancaster Correctional
00:54:43
Institution and lived temporarily with
00:54:45
his grandmother before he found his own
00:54:47
place to live. After their release, they
00:54:49
really didn't make an attempt to
00:54:51
reconnect with their living relatives or
00:54:53
each other,
00:54:54
>> which there's a lot of [ __ ] going to
00:54:57
say there's a lot of [ __ ] to unpack
00:54:59
there.
00:54:59
>> In 2009, they did participate in a
00:55:02
reunion episode on Dineine, and that was
00:55:04
the first time they had seen each other
00:55:06
since they plead guilty to the murder.
00:55:08
>> Whoa. when asked whether he thought they
00:55:10
would try to maintain contact going
00:55:11
forward. Alex said about Derek, "I've
00:55:14
spent very little time with him actually
00:55:15
throughout my life." And that's true.
00:55:17
Yeah. He said, "We've not really had
00:55:18
much chance to form any bonds or any
00:55:20
real relationships or anything."
00:55:22
>> That's the thing. It's not like these
00:55:23
were like tight brothers who spent their
00:55:25
entire 13, 12, and 13 years together.
00:55:28
>> They had a long period of time where
00:55:29
they didn't know each other.
00:55:31
>> They were like five and six when they
00:55:33
were removed from their house and placed
00:55:34
into foster care. Alex went back when he
00:55:36
was I think Alex was only gone for about
00:55:38
a year or so and then it was seven more
00:55:41
years before he was reunited with his
00:55:42
brother.
00:55:43
>> Like he shows up at 13.
00:55:44
>> He shows up at 13 and then 2 months
00:55:46
after that
00:55:47
>> this happened. They've had 2 months
00:55:49
essentially
00:55:49
>> basically
00:55:50
>> of bonding time. So really I that
00:55:52
doesn't shock me.
00:55:53
>> No, it's not shocking.
00:55:54
>> Yeah. So, tragically though, whatever
00:55:57
relationship they did or could have had
00:55:58
in the future was cut short on April
00:56:00
23rd, 2024 when Alex King died from a
00:56:03
drug overdose in Montana,
00:56:06
>> which is tragic
00:56:08
>> because it's just
00:56:10
>> it's the worst they lived. Yeah, it was
00:56:12
just Yeah.
00:56:13
>> As of now though, Derek King is still
00:56:15
alive and he lives with family in
00:56:17
Florida.
00:56:18
>> Damn.
00:56:19
So that is that's a tragic story all the
00:56:23
[ __ ] way around.
00:56:25
>> All around.
00:56:26
>> Like
00:56:27
>> none of that was good.
00:56:28
>> Nobody won. No.
00:56:29
>> Nobody won in their
00:56:31
>> No.
00:56:31
>> And it was from the start. From the very
00:56:33
>> from the start of their lives.
00:56:34
>> Yeah.
00:56:35
>> It's all there was no chance whatsoever.
00:56:38
>> And then it feels like it was and it and
00:56:40
it is true. It's like this this Ricky
00:56:43
guy and and now you can realize too cuz
00:56:46
it for some reason it like escaped me
00:56:48
while you were saying it that Alex had
00:56:50
been with Terry for most of his life. So
00:56:53
he had known Ricky for much longer
00:56:56
>> than he had been Derrick had only really
00:56:58
known this guy for a couple of months.
00:57:00
>> And remember Ricky was introduced to
00:57:04
Alex when he was like pretty young and
00:57:06
he was alone with Alex for a long time.
00:57:08
So he had a long time
00:57:11
sat there and volunteered to watch Alex
00:57:13
while Terry was at work and Terry just
00:57:16
thought he was being a good friend.
00:57:17
>> Yeah.
00:57:19
>> Oh, it's so sad. You can't trust anyone.
00:57:21
I swear.
00:57:22
>> No, you can't.
00:57:23
>> You really can't.
00:57:24
>> You can't.
00:57:24
>> And it becomes more and more apparent.
00:57:26
Oh,
00:57:27
>> that's horrific.
00:57:29
Yeah.
00:57:30
>> And
00:57:31
>> it's really tough because you don't
00:57:33
obviously you have no idea what happened
00:57:35
in that house on a dayto-day basis.
00:57:38
>> No,
00:57:38
>> but it really does look like Terry was
00:57:40
being painted as something that perhaps
00:57:43
he was not.
00:57:44
>> Yeah.
00:57:45
>> Because it was being planted. It's It
00:57:47
very much seemed to have been planted
00:57:49
because in Alex's own words like he
00:57:52
Ricky told him that he was being abused
00:57:54
>> and then Derek was just kind of like he
00:57:56
just like stared me down. And you also
00:57:58
have to realize that an abuser is the
00:58:01
person who told the child that they were
00:58:02
being abused by somebody else
00:58:03
psychologically.
00:58:04
>> That's an important detail. So it's like
00:58:06
and so it's he's not here to defend that
00:58:08
claim and that sucks.
00:58:10
>> Yeah.
00:58:12
>> [ __ ]
00:58:13
>> Yeah. So I think we should end this with
00:58:15
a fun fact.
00:58:16
>> Yeah.
00:58:17
>> And I just found one that is really
00:58:18
truly beautiful.
00:58:19
>> Oh, cool.
00:58:20
>> Dolphins have names for each other.
00:58:22
>> [ __ ] Are you kidding me? I found this
00:58:24
on Cosm Cosmopolitan and it says,
00:58:26
"According to National Ge Geographic,
00:58:28
dolphins use a unique whistle to
00:58:30
distinguish between different members in
00:58:32
their pod which serve as dolphins have
00:58:35
names for each other."
00:58:36
>> Oh, I love that.
00:58:38
>> I love dolphins.
00:58:40
>> I dig that. [laughter]
00:58:41
>> I just want to think about dolphins
00:58:42
right now.
00:58:43
>> I really like that. And I want you all
00:58:44
to think about dolphins right now.
00:58:45
>> Just whistling their names at each
00:58:47
other.
00:58:47
>> Just whistling. Just
00:58:48
>> Yeah. Hey, buddy.
00:58:49
>> Yeah. Another fun fact that I just like
00:58:52
sometimes dolphins remind me of dogs and
00:58:53
I was just thinking of my dog Dolores
00:58:55
and last night she was very tired and
00:58:57
Drew kept singing this [singing] girl is
00:58:59
so tired [laughter]
00:59:02
and it was very funny. I love that a
00:59:04
lot. Thank you. I like that a lot.
00:59:06
>> So yeah, fun facts [laughter]
00:59:08
fun facts and fun happenings.
00:59:09
>> I also liked how you you introduced that
00:59:11
with um my dog Dolores. [laughter] They
00:59:14
like introduced her again like Dolores.
00:59:17
>> Just in case you weren't aware of who
00:59:18
the [ __ ] she is. My girl Dool.
00:59:21
>> This is my girl Doolo Katana Isaac.
00:59:24
>> Oh, I love that a lot. Um, what a
00:59:26
horrific tale. And go learn about
00:59:29
dolphins, please.
00:59:30
>> And watch your dogs and watch
00:59:32
Frankenstein. Yep. I said Frankenstein,
00:59:34
which was strange. [laughter]
00:59:36
>> Just watch it.
00:59:36
>> I'm upset and I have to go now.
00:59:38
>> Yeah. We love you and we hope you keep
00:59:41
listening and we hope you keep it. Wee.
00:59:44
>> But I you don't go learn about dolphins
00:59:46
and sing to your dogs. Yes, please.
00:59:47
>> And be good to each other and protect
00:59:48
children.
00:59:49
>> Yes.
00:59:50
>> And beat the [ __ ] out of anybody that
00:59:51
doesn't protect children. Just kidding.
00:59:52
I don't condone violence. Unless it's
00:59:54
against child predators. I should go.
00:59:55
I'm saying crazy things. [laughter]
01:00:14
>> [music]
01:00:26
[music]
01:00:41
[music]
01:00:49
[music]
01:00:54
[music]
01:01:03
[music]
01:01:11
[music]