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hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid this is more bid y ah oh we're almost done everybody oh my
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goodness what a terrible guys this is a terrible case it really is but you know what we're on the last part of it okay
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okay and we're going to at least get a little bit of something at the end we'll get a resolution I like that that's all
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we're looking for in life you know was a resolution cool yeah do you have any any
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um [ __ ] for the top not really I'm really excited to see uh the ghost movie that's exciting theaters
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that is exciting in June I'll be with you so excited about that very psych isn't there's like a big reveal people
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are saying everyone's assuming there's going to be a reveal of what's happening to
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Papa um cuz we're going to get some lore in there of course what is happening to
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big p I'm dying to know what's happening to Papa it did say in the trailer this is not a story about death and I was
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like like what the [ __ ] does that mean rebirth so that's I'm who knows who knows I'm I'm here to know when I'm
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supposed to the lore runs so deep it's so deep yeah I'm constantly learning new lore and you're constantly like I'm like
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wait what I'm constantly sharing new lore with you that I found sometimes I'm like wait who is the dad it's very
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creative it is really creative and it's cool that it's like a band like yeah like it's fun cuz it's not like a
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typical band it's fun to tell love I love how much you love it I love how much I love it your little eyes are so
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bright right now they're twinkling I don't I was like your little [ __ ] eyes your little beady [ __ ] eyes are
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just twinking your little beady [ __ ] eyes no um but what do you got you know what I'm on a Sourdough
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Journey as everyone in my life knows it's on a Sourdough it's overtaken my life Drew went to his mom's yesterday
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and he was like yeah Ash's on a bread journey and she thought that was the funniest thing a bread Journey a bread
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Journey but I wanted to shout out like all the weirdos for helping me because I had this beautiful loaf that I made and
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then I cut into it and I said oror or what happen here cuz it's it's so involved but one weirdo in particular I
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don't know if I should say their name or not cuz they like didn't say if I could
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you know who you are sent me an entire video on like how she does her my God s and she's a fellow Massachusetts girly
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what a badass [ __ ] and it was so nice like she was like okay let me me tell you what I do and she explained it so
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like like cohesively and then another weirdo who's a like a head Baker at a bakery was like like walked me through
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this whole process sent me like this massive message of like epth what to do and it was like so helpful and that was
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among like 50 other messages that I got from people like just trying to help see
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that's the that's the nice part of social media it is and that's the only part that I pay attention to that's the
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only part I like to be honest much when things like that happen you're like well [ __ ] this is what it's for
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let's come together over bread come together over bread sour dough with me but yeah I I'm really excited so I I
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tried again I love that and I have two loaves in the fridge right now but I proofed them last night on the count
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don't worry guys for close to like 11 hours cuz I keep it pretty cold in my house so it's okay to bulk ferment for
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that long listen to meing terms and stuff just being a do girly it's really fun I if you want to go on a little
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journey with yourself and like you have the time it's [ __ ] fun like and you have the
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time takes time time a lot of time yeah I was like I don't think I'll be able to
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do this when I have children but we'll try but you know what who knows give it a shot you know um and then in other
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news pretty soon we're going to be releasing our bonus episode so get ready for that we have been listening to the
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audible original title desperate deadly widows with four women authors so like which is so [ __ ] cool and different I
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love that yeah and it like when I saw four different authors I was like wow like what was that process like but
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listening to the to the title it's so cohesive is it feels like it was written by one person it's like they became a
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super author together they became Mega author and it's like Mega desk and on the office Mega off Mega author I love
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it and they all just created this cohesive Tale and like each each woman in the book is
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like just like has like such a distinct personality like I feel like it's almost
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like like it's not the same subjects at all but it's almost like sex in the city
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where you're like oh I'm a Miranda yeah you can like pick out who you are in this yeah so we're going to be
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discussing that like way more at length um adnauseum if adium like book club style yeah and we're going to have a
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special guest who you guys know and love yeah you know them already you love them
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it's going to be a lot of fun they are like the perfect guest for this title literally the perfect guest and I love
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them so much I'm sorry if you guys hear my stomach growling she she's been loud she has what I said something earlier in
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your stomach was like you also might be able to hear my chest rumbling um it's like crackling
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yeah you're still going through it yeah I woke up this morning and I thought I was much better and then well I am yeah
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but my every time I cough like afterwards it's like a a r crumbling like settles like rum it's like a
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thunder clap yeah it's like a it's like a crackle in of my chest you know it It's Hard Out Here in these streets in
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the world is it is everybody's getting sick it's cold and flu say and you know what me this story is not going to help
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anybody from not feeling sick because you're going to feel sick but it's the end it's and it's
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there's a resolution at the end at least some kind of resolution it's not like they
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I'll tell you right now they don't get away with it and go riding off into the sunset never to be heard from again so
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don't worry about that they don't somehow get off on a technicality no one's getting out of jail good so good
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good good so don't worry about that they're gone bye [ __ ] that's what it is I was trying to think of the the Jack
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mannequin lyrics of the resolution song GL in the dark as I search for the resolution that's how I feel I love it I
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need some light in the dark yeah I'm not going to give it to you for a little while so I apologize for that so when we
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last left you uh we were talking about the really um horrific murder of Shirley andne Robinson yeah and um I had said
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that it was it was over a year before they next killed again because again they would go through these long periods
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of time where we assume they didn't do they didn't kill anyone but uh nobody's entirely convinced of that yeah I can't
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say that I am yeah and also it sounds like like police were starting to kind of like they were at least they were
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there more often so I'm sure it was harder to for sure but I wonder if there's other areas that that we could
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find victims in yeah I agree now like so many of the other victims of Fred and rosemary West 16-year-old Alison
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Chambers 16 had come from a troubled upbringing and had actually spent her early years
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living between her parents who had separated when she was very young and she ended up going into different like
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facilities where she would be living that's so sad yeah now Allison was described as a vulnerable girl from a
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disturbed background that's how all the media described her and when she was 15 and a half years old she was placed at
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Jordan's Brook um now according to soon Allison quote frequently withdrew into a
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fantasy life and she composed romantic poetry and liked to draw pictures of an image imaginary Farm where she dreamed
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of living that's so which is just so gutr devastating just like ret readed into that world I want to be clear again
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once again I'm going to say it before all of these um entries into this series a lot of uh trigger warning for a lot of
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sexual sadism and you know sexual assaults um murder with sexual assaults I mean it's really bad and in this one
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in particular we're going to get a little bit into their own children oh try I'm not tapping into a lot of those
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details for my own stuff but I mean you can honestly you can read um the book that I gave you we're going to we're
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going to um link it here and Marie book I encourage you to read that to get it right from her because she's the one who
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lived it right I'm not going to go into the nitty-gritty of everything but I am going to let you know something because
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they end up murdering another one of their children so that will be in here God um now so
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she so Allison was sound s like she was just living this you know tough life tough upbringing and she was just
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retreating into a fantasy world right you know and and the fact that she had this very specific Farm like imaginary
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farm that she had where she just dreamed of it being a reality and she lived there is just gut-wrenching it really is
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um and what's even worse is Fred and rosemary West specifically pre on that one aspect of
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her life that makes a lot of sense that they did but because she would ret treat
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often into her fantasy world and she would write poetry which honestly is a sign of intelligence and like Beauty and
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you know everything right in the world a great personality to be around kids are
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are usually pretty rough so she was ruthlessly bullied and mocked at the um live at the girls' home the other girls
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would mock her which I'm like girls let's be nice to other girls yeah you're all going through it so exactly look get
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through together instead of against each other this left her leaving even more isolated and More Lonely um so she
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unable to make friends at school she did have one friend okay who was a teenager
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named an and this teenager lived at 25 Cromwell Street yeah now since Allison was you know Wicked lonely PR prone to
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Fantasy she was easy prey for Fred and Rose who had a knack of knowing exactly what to say to manipulate girls just
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like Allison who had gone through what she had gone through on her various visits to the house Rose would tell
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Allison that she could relate she knew exactly how this this girl felt she gave her gifts at one point she gave her a
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gold colored necklace with her name on it and showed the girl a picture of a farm and told her that she and Fred
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owned that farm and Allison could live there once she moved out of Jordan Brook what the [ __ ] now it turned out that
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that photo was just an image from a Real's brochure but they knew it was enough to
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draw Allison even deeper into their world and Fred was equally as [ __ ] up and you know manipulative and his regular
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self leaving her you know he would lavish her with praise and attention he would give her a lot of attention which
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is what she was looking positive attention she wasn't getting that anywhere else and when she would go back
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to school she would tell the other girls she'd met an older man who gave her all
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kinds of gifts and they were in love oh no now from the moment they'd met her Fred and Rose had made all kinds of
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promises to Allison and the things they would give her and do for her when she turned 17 and could leave Jordans Brook
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one day in early August 1979 just days before her 17th birthday Allison quietly packed all her belongings and ran away
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from Jordan's Brook oh no presumably to 25 Cromwell Street she wrote a letter to
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her mother before she left and she explained that she'd been invited to live with quote a very homely family I
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look after their five children and do some of their housework they have a child the same age as me who accepts me
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as a big sister and we get on great the family owns flats and I share with the oldest sister oh my God to think that
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she thought that she was finally going to get this life that she's wanted for almost 17 years and that they went out
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of their way to convince her of that and to prey on the little hopes and Fantasies that she had they're so [ __ ]
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up it's beyond comprehension it really is now when Allison's body was later exhumed from the garden at 25 Cromwell
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Street there was a large purple belt wrapped around her head and under her jaw oh God the prosecutor told the jury
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at Rose's trial quote the belt found around her head clamping closed her jaw can only have been placed in position to
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stop her screaming oh my God the purpose of such restraint must have been to permit abuse of the type experienced by
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the others oh it's so dark like the others Fred had kept several of the small bones from Allison's hands and
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feet now when Allison failed to show up for work the following day at the training
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school a missing person's report was filed and it listed Allison as quote an absconder from care an investigation was
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opened but when Allison's mother told them she had gotten a letter from Allison that said she'd gone to work as
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a Livin Nanny with a lovely family investigators didn't ask any questions and they closed the case right now while
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the victims of Fred and Rose West like the outside victims of Fred and Rose Mary West they've been the focus of
00:14:01
every story rightfully yeah of this it's worth keeping in mind at this point that
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after the murder of Charmaine they still had four children living at home with them and sometimes that can you can
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forget that just because there's so much other awful [ __ ] going on you can't fathom that there's children here no but
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there are four as the daughter of Fred and Reena and Marie received the brunt of the horrific physical emotional and
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sexual abuse but the others were completely aware of it and often saw bore witness to it and also had to deal
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with it and they also had to be witness to Rose's sex work or the abuse of other
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children yeah they saw a lot and they experienced a lot themselves they went they all went through a lot hell and
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Marie's story I'm warning you right now is one of the most horrific things I have ever read in my entire life I
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believe hands down Bar None you read her book read it but I'm telling you right now
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she I can't I can't explain I can't explain to you what it's horrible it's horrible and I can't believe that she
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was able to even put pen to paper to talk about it like I give her a lot of credit for being able to it was like
00:15:12
some kind of healing experience or I hope it was I don't know how you can heal from all of that but hope that it
00:15:17
was some kind of cathartic experience like I'm sure it was painful but I hoped some kind of like help came out of it
00:15:23
for her um I mean there was a very big inappropriate Focus on like very deviant and very like demonic sexuality in that
00:15:34
house you know what I mean like it was it's not like there was like a they were living a different lifestyle you know
00:15:40
what I mean than like than the like the mainstream you know what I mean like this was s like sadistic [ __ ] yeah it's
00:15:47
like this is not this is totally inappropriate totally beyond the the you could ever think and it was incredibly
00:15:55
damaging to these children incredibly damaging these are their parents no matter what like
00:16:04
things it's just like they they will like also in some ways think this is just how parents are well yeah you know
00:16:13
it's like they it's very hard to for kids to understand that like their situation with their parents is not what
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everybody else is going through yeah you just assume they're just some of it they're looking at like I just have to
00:16:24
deal with this until I leave that like this is just life and then like you know they manipulated them so hard that like
00:16:30
some of them were like trying to like defend them later like but they're their kids you know I mean like it's one of
00:16:36
those things it's like that's just such a different situation I can't even fathom it I really can't no I really
00:16:42
can't but their daughter May wrote later if Dad had any ambition at all for any of his daughters it was simply that we
00:16:50
should breed and have at least as many babies as he and Mama had done and like why like yeah you don't victim yeah yeah
00:17:01
he I mean they got to they got to make their own victims essentially wow yeah now once anarie was old enough she had
00:17:10
moved out of the house and Fred's eye shifted towards his younger daughters Heather and may he would often make
00:17:17
comments about their bodies or joke about and this is awful quote it being a father's right to take his daughter's
00:17:24
virginity oh my God that yeah you want to throw up the girls thought this was a joke because he was so crude and he was
00:17:34
so crass and so lewd and so disgusting all the time and he would say these disgusting things and they would just be
00:17:41
like oh that's just like who whatever like he just says this disgusting [ __ ] God oh my God but eventually they
00:17:46
realized he was serious oh he was sexually abusing like he was a horrible [ __ ] Predator monster yeah um and
00:17:54
like he when he was saying that he meant it when they were in their teen years Fred began treating his daughters
00:17:59
basically as he would treat any other girl around him or woman or young woman around him uh especially when he was a
00:18:06
teenager cuz remember we said any woman that was near him he would just grab and
00:18:10
grope at them he would do that with his daughters oh my God now may did her best
00:18:15
to hide the abuse and the emotional effects from the world she just tried to retreat into herself but Heather seemed
00:18:21
to have a much harder time with it yeah obviously like I I don't even know how any of them were functioning and by the
00:18:27
time she was in her mid teens Heather had become very withdrawn and very Sullen she never smiled or laughed like
00:18:35
she just didn't have joy how could you and eventually she started acting out at school and when she turned 16 years old
00:18:42
she had left school cuz she had found a job working as a um on a cleaning crew at a Holiday Camp okay not a glamorous
00:18:49
job not well-paying but the location of the camp meant that she would be able to
00:18:53
get the [ __ ] away from Fred and Rose so it was her ticket out and it would be for a few months so she was like get me
00:18:59
gone I don't give a [ __ ] what you need me to do just get me out of this house and it was probably some kind of plan
00:19:03
where she was thinking like I can save up this much money and go on to the next thing now unfortunately the day before
00:19:09
she was about to leave for the camp the job fell through no and she was devastated devastated well you must just
00:19:17
she must have just been sitting there being like what the [ __ ] is this life and she must have been sitting there
00:19:22
before it fell through being like thinking fantasizing about this new life she could have away from them yeah you
00:19:28
start picturing just like think something's coming you exactly like Allison with the farm it's like and and
00:19:35
we can all relate to the idea of like when you think you something's happening and you're like oh I'm so excited for
00:19:40
this thing and then it falls through it's awful and it's in most of us only know that on like the most micro of
00:19:48
scales of so bummed oh like I get to meet this cool you know like I get to meet my idol like you know I mean and
00:19:54
you're like oh I'm so excited it's going to be so much fun and then all of a sudden it falls through and you're like
00:19:58
oh like I pictured myself meeting this doing this thing but then you think of all the weight that came like with this
00:20:05
of like it's my escape from my of the incredibly abusive toxic hous measurable trauma that I've been facing my entire
00:20:13
life it's her ticket to like personal autonomy yes and it's like like when I read that I was like I feel it in my gut
00:20:22
yeah like the gut punch of that oh I feel so bad now the next day June 19th 1987 may say said goodbye to Heather and
00:20:29
left for school when she came home she expected to find her sister still upset but Heather was gone now may asked her
00:20:38
parents where she went and Fred told her that Heather had received a call from the camp and the job was back on so
00:20:44
Heather packed up a few things and got the [ __ ] out of there now this was supposed to be a positive thing but may
00:20:50
said something didn't hit right for immediately these kids as much as like you know they're their parents and they
00:20:58
just kind of dealt with this stuff they know their parents too they know what their parents are all of them had their
00:21:05
parents numbers every single [ __ ] one of them well and they've also seen people come on as like nannies and then
00:21:11
just [ __ ] disappear forever and they've heard [ __ ] they've heard [ __ ] there's no way they're not hearing
00:21:16
screaming screaming crying like horrible stuff they know what their parents are capable of they've experienced it
00:21:24
they've seen it they've witnessed it they've heard it they've they experienced it personally right and
00:21:30
they're probably so much more connected than even like a typical sibling Duo because they have that shared experience
00:21:37
tra and so may knew immediately something's wrong here her she said her father seemed almost cheerful about
00:21:44
sharing the news but she said Rose seemed very upset about Heather leaving that's her daughter which Fred explained
00:21:51
away as her being just disappointed that Heather that you know like she thought Heather was going to be staying but now
00:21:57
she's not so she said that she's leaving was Rose involved with the sexual abuse
00:22:02
of her kids in way of participating or was that just Fred um she definitely she was involved in at the very
00:22:14
least like a bystander okay of letting it happen because like and again some of the things that were done to some of
00:22:23
these kids and like an Marie in particular was out in the open open for everybody to see okay and it was
00:22:32
horrific I mean how do you not step in and protect your kid cuz you're a [ __ ] monster Rose is a monster she's
00:22:41
a monster right along with Fred she gets no nothing I'm just like how do you not
00:22:47
have that motherly Instinct after carrying a baby in your womb for nine [ __ ] months I don't get it and then
00:22:53
to let a man do that and to stand there and do nothing like yeah I mean like that's your kid cuz I didn't I didn't
00:23:02
read too far into like how she participated yeah but she certainly is not at the very least she didn't stop it
00:23:09
and she's certainly not a a passive person in any of that she's very much actively at least in some way shape or
00:23:17
form that's so heinous she's [ __ ] terrible um so the West children had spent again their entire lives being
00:23:25
manipulated lied to and abused by their parents especially their father so even though they knew he wasn't telling the
00:23:33
truth about Heather they knew this was a lie but it's just like what can they do
00:23:36
they also knew you don't push himh so we're not going to push him cuz then you'll be in the same position yeah and
00:23:42
they're like who knows what's going to happen now in the days and weeks after that Fred and Rose went out of their way
00:23:47
to reinforce their story that Heather had simply gone away and would be coming back she was going to be coming back
00:23:54
like you said it was only mon this is forever they would receive phone calls in the night apparently from some
00:23:59
drunken woman that they claimed was Heather and then they would get an an argument on the phone and hang up with
00:24:05
her and the children were like okay I guess she's all right and she's going to be home like they couldn't figure out
00:24:10
they were playing a twisted game but after a few months they became concerned that Heather was not going to be coming
00:24:16
back and in an attempt to quiet their concerns Fred and Rose continued the charade that simply Heather had decided
00:24:23
not to come home now she she went to this this camp and now wants to stay for longer and you know in fact she's so mad
00:24:32
at us now like she's had enough of this house apparently she's like they decided
00:24:35
to [ __ ] all over and be like she's just like you know she's turned on us whatever she's turned on us and now she
00:24:40
doesn't want to have any contact with us at all gee I wonder why if that was actually the case may knew this was a
00:24:46
lie but what was she going to do but but and she was like honestly all my parents
00:24:52
did was lie to me right like they just lied and manipulated so she's like what else is new I can't say anything I don't
00:24:58
know what to say to anybody like all the kids were handling it differently so they all had to retreat in themselves
00:25:04
now Heather never came home obviously and may never saw her sister again and in time May and her siblings would learn
00:25:12
that their sister didn't leave for a job in 1987 but was in fact killed by their
00:25:18
parents now in this in his interview with police Fred told investigators that he's such a [ __ ] [ __ ] this is
00:25:26
their new story he told investig ators that they thought that their daughter was actually a lesbian and was planning
00:25:32
to leave with a woman on the night she went missing so he said Heather told him and he quotes if you don't let me
00:25:39
[ __ ] go I'll give all the kids acid and they'll all jump off the church roof and kill
00:25:45
themselves seems legit seems legit right and Fred's claimed that that sent him into a rage and he grabbed her by the
00:25:52
neck and began to choking her and he told detectives I can't even remember what happened what happened but the next
00:25:58
minute she's blue that no incorrect yeah he then said when she was dead he dismembered hea
00:26:05
Heather's body and buried her remains in the garden his daughter dismembered his
00:26:10
daughter now may says she never believed that story for a [ __ ] second also now
00:26:16
I'm just trying to tally it I'm pretty sure he's killed three of his kids at this point or two because he didn't kill
00:26:21
Charmaine but he's killed um Shirley was pregnant and an and an yeah um so the fact that we can't even tally up
00:26:31
how many of his own children that he's killed several pregnant with his child and like
00:26:38
we're talking like eight months pregnant with brutally tortured and murdered in fact in in both cases he waited very
00:26:46
long the pregnancy yeah yeah that's a whole different pathology yeah that's something that should be studed that's a
00:26:54
something's something's happening there wow yeah wow now may never believe this story either no and neither did
00:27:01
investigators investigators were like [ __ ] off detectives had two theories as to Heather's death both e easily
00:27:09
plausible in the first they believe Fred attempted to sexually assault his daughter and which she resisted he began
00:27:15
choking her yep um this theory was supported by the fact that Heather was buried naked uh like the other victims
00:27:22
she had no clothing no clothing was found in the grave also like the other victims there were several bones missing
00:27:28
from her hands and feet as well really the second theory is that Heather had become a liability and they feared that
00:27:34
she would or maybe she threatened to tell someone about the abuse that had been occurring in the home for well over
00:27:40
a decade right now regardless of what the motive for her murder was Heather would be the final body buried in the
00:27:48
west garden and it would be her disappearance that would actually bring an end to their Killing Spree okay now
00:27:57
it's unclear why and this is really wild there was an 8year Gap in the murders between Alice
00:28:05
aliceon Chambers and Heather really eight years and what they think is it's entirely possible that they killed other
00:28:14
women and buried them elsewhere because they also were frankly running out of room at their own place run out of room
00:28:21
in the basement and we're now filling the garden and I don't I don't know like what the neighbor situation is like how
00:28:27
close they are to other they're pretty close so it's like they don't have a ton of space so I would bet a lot of money
00:28:35
that there are other victims around that they will eventually hopefully find now
00:28:41
what is clear though is that Heather's murder was definitely different from the other victims as well like Anna McFall
00:28:47
it seems that Heather was likely killed in their eyes to solve a problem that they saw you know being discovered they
00:28:54
didn't want to be found out right um this was an entirely like one of their sexual sadist like killing for sexual
00:29:02
gratification murders um whenever anyone would ask about Heather in the years after this Fred and Rose would give some
00:29:08
variation of the unexpected employment or the lesbian lover story which typically satisfied whoever was asking
00:29:16
and then The Disappearance was just never truly investigated at first it really is so awful that that was their
00:29:21
way of like obviously it's not degrading to be a lesbian I'm not saying that their view they're like oh let's let's
00:29:27
say She's a Lesbian cuz that's a bad thing like you can tell that's why they're doing it be like oh she's just a
00:29:32
[ __ ] lesbian yeah they were like uh and he's basically saying she was a lesbian and she was violent yeah and
00:29:40
like I had to kill her to save us all like I had to get rid of this ridiculous this violent lesbian and it's like it's
00:29:46
like you're degrading her even in death yeah like no now Fred and Rose had gotten away with so many horrific crimes
00:29:53
over the years that they probably assumed Heather's murder was just one more girl that no one was going to miss
00:29:59
their own child shaking my head right now that might have been true had it not been for the courage of one of Fred's
00:30:06
sexual assault victims who eventually came forward with her story and began an in investigation that would literally
00:30:13
unearth the secrets of 25 Cromwell Street in the spring of 1992 just a week a few weeks after the death of Fred's
00:30:22
father a 13-year-old girl who lived in the neighborhood divulged to a friend that Fred West had sexually assaulted
00:30:30
her but she didn't want to go to the police 13 years old he's a [ __ ] monster I hope he wherever he is I hope
00:30:40
he is just living in a cyclic Loop Purgatory [ __ ] brutal torture I really do that he doesn't enjoy yeah exactly
00:30:52
well he didn't I don't think he enjoyed it I think he enjoyed inflicting um but this girl's friend sat
00:30:59
with the information for a few days before eventually going to her mother who in turn informed a local police
00:31:05
officer now the tip about the wests prompted an investigation which was led by veteran detective Hazel Savage which
00:31:11
is such a cool name love it um who this this investigator this detective had experience working sex crimes and crimes
00:31:19
involving children so perfect person to get involved in this wow at first the case seemed a little straightforward you
00:31:25
know a single incident of sexual assault horrific crime but one that they could easily just go forward with yeah but the
00:31:32
more she dug into the family's background the scarier and stranger that the story became but it all started with
00:31:39
a story told by one of the West's children now when the complaint against Fred and Rose was initially made the
00:31:46
children were immediately removed from the home and placed in foster care which I was like my God that should have
00:31:52
happened a long time ago yeah for real while they were there one of the children told one of the social workers
00:31:57
that their father often threaten them with violence saying if you ever talked about what went on in the house they
00:32:02
would be killed and buried under the patio just like their sister Heather so he would literally say that to his
00:32:08
children like I'll [ __ ] kill you and bury you under the patio like Heather oh my God these poor kids I can't the your
00:32:17
brain can't even like put that together of you will be buried next to your sister my daughter whom I killed
00:32:26
who I killed like yeah my brain is just all over the place right now and also to me that puts a lot
00:32:34
more wait on the idea that Heather might have said I'm going to I'm leaving and I'm telling or they had some weird idea
00:32:43
that she was going to Ked absolutely I agree with you now Fred would later claim that was just a
00:32:50
joke you know a funny dad joke you know and he explained that Heather had run off with a female lover she was a
00:32:58
lesbian everybody that's what he keeps trying to claim but by then the story had changed so many times and the
00:33:04
comments about the patio made everything seem way more suspicious so in her initial interview Rose was Cy about
00:33:12
Heather's disappearance and whenever she was asked directly why she hadn't reported her daughter missing yeah she
00:33:18
would answer I don't know or I don't remember she's a I can't like [ __ ] off she's an [ __ ] after repeated
00:33:26
questioning Rose finally said I can remember now why I didn't pursue Heather because things pointed to her being a
00:33:34
lesbian meanwhile [ __ ] Rose herself is interested in women too so like what is your [ __ ] problem here that's what
00:33:41
it is it's all this [ __ ] up Loop of being of hating themselves yeah and taking that hate out on other people
00:33:51
yeah it's totally putting it out on other people it's just making me so mad that
00:33:56
they're like they're putting that on her afterwards and acting like it's a bad thing when Rose very much came on to
00:34:03
other women like in aggressively so like such an aggressive Manner and like I'm just like and now you're saying like oh
00:34:11
I didn't report her missing cuz she was a lesbian well it's literally a mother saying I didn't report my child's
00:34:16
missing because she was a lesbian yeah oh I'm sorry do you think that makes you look better right you [ __ ] [ __ ]
00:34:23
like [ __ ] you Rose and and sitting there both yeah sitting there saying not knowing full well what happened to her
00:34:31
for her whole life how she was killed and where she is yeah like she's under [ __ ] porch you wake up every single
00:34:39
morning over your daughter's dead body like you [ __ ] pig yeah a true Pig like I'm so mad right now Pig like true
00:34:48
[ __ ] Hogs Pig just it's so filthy it is that's the thing it just gets worse and worse now
00:34:58
throughout the rest of 1992 and most of 1993 investigators continued building their case against Fred and eventually
00:35:05
he was charged with three counts of rape of a minor with rose being charged as an
00:35:09
accomplice wow but they remained free on bail pending the trial a rapist a child rapist a child rapist on
00:35:18
three [ __ ] counts where are they yeah like What's happen [ __ ] county is this now in the meantime the Department
00:35:25
of Social Services continued their search for Heather West interviewing the children as they went for more inter
00:35:31
information and the process was very slow goinging and at first it was yielding very little information but
00:35:37
eventually they had gathered enough testimony from the children because that's also a delicate process it's a
00:35:43
slow process you don't want to re-traumatize them right you're to go about it in the right way to personally
00:35:49
give you a testimony and a narrative of what they've gone through that's a lot even for grownass adults to do like
00:35:56
that's a lot and you're doing it while their life has just been like offended in so many ways exactly uh but they had
00:36:03
eventually gathered enough testimony from the children as well as other Witnesses and they strongly suspected
00:36:09
that there was vital evidence of Murder in the house on cromr Street yeah so in late February 1994 Hazel Savage applied
00:36:17
for a warrant that would allow investigators to search the West House and Garden for evidence of Heather West
00:36:23
and the application was granted Hazel Savage forever [ __ ] Savage now with the search
00:36:29
weren't secured it seemed only a matter of digging in the yard but investigators
00:36:34
had no idea where to look and the process was further Complicated by all the alterations that Fred had made to
00:36:40
the house and the extensive Stone workor in the backyard also when detectives came to
00:36:46
the house to present the warrant Rose and several of the older children did everything they could to stall the
00:36:52
investigators which would buy them enough time for Fred to come home and stop the search make a big fuss out of
00:36:58
everything again very clearly you have to know these are these older children remember what they' G they've abused
00:37:05
their whole lives and brainwashed and doing what they been taught to do like you know like absolutely right and they
00:37:12
and they probably did not believe for a second any of these claims you know they're terrified they've been scared
00:37:19
since they came into the world they've lived nothing but fear and horror and sadness and loneliness and isolation and
00:37:28
pain and just any horrible thing you can think of they've lived it their entire lives from the two people who are
00:37:36
supposed to provide the safest place for them yep so I give I put nothing on them
00:37:41
to have the kind of average reactions that any of us would have at all now despite their protests Rosen Fred's work
00:37:49
did begin on the west backyard on February 24th we have a [ __ ] warrant yeah they [ __ ] you
00:37:55
we're um and they began with the hole dug in the back corner and they were going to just slowly move forward the
00:38:01
work was very slow but they were very methodical about it and it was kept getting stalled and interrupted and
00:38:07
[ __ ] up and by Fred and Rose because they kept interfering and arguing with investigators whenever they could like
00:38:13
they just kept trying to [ __ ] it up I like okay cool why don't you go sit in jail then and await your [ __ ]
00:38:18
sentencing for your [ __ ] thing that you're on bail for right now you're interfering with an investigation you
00:38:23
should be arrested go sit in the [ __ ] jail cell but after a few days it did seem to have dawned on Fred that he
00:38:30
wasn't going to be able to stop this search and that they were going to discover a lot lot and he was like
00:38:37
they're also going to move into the house they have a warrant for the house as well so they're going into that
00:38:41
basement and they're going to find that so given that it probably seemed no use in keeping up the charade so Fred went
00:38:47
to detective Savage and told her they may as well bring him in and they hadn't found anything yet and he was like you
00:38:54
know what you might as well I mean they were going to as they LED Fred from the house now that he walked up to Hazel
00:38:59
Savage and said you might as well bring me in because you're going to find [ __ ]
00:39:02
and she was like awesome okay they led him to the H from the house to the police car and he made a large public
00:39:09
spectacle protesting screaming and being like I didn't kill her like acting like
00:39:16
he didn't just walk up to somebody and say you might as well bring me in cuz there's going to be a ton of stuff here
00:39:21
acting like it's not going to come out very soon when they're done with this whole excavation process that there are
00:39:26
however many numerous bodies outside and then when they move inside however many
00:39:31
bodies are inside that the basement is literally filled the point that you ran out of room like I don't really know
00:39:37
what you're doing here because all of this is coming to Light Within weeks well also they got him in the car closed
00:39:43
the door and he immediately confessed to murdering Heather yeah so there you go so he all the way to the car I didn't
00:39:50
kill her how dare you I didn't kill her gets in the car and he's like I did I killed her can you imagine and then he
00:39:57
literally looked at Savage and he said detective Savage you're digging in the wrong
00:40:02
place what A pompous [ __ ] what a [ __ ] [ __ ] and also like what the [ __ ] is wrong with you now it's possible
00:40:09
that Fred thought he could prevent the discovery of the other bodies if he confessed to the murder of Heather and
00:40:14
pointed detectives away from the other Graves he thought maybe they'll stop after they get heather yeah totally but
00:40:20
by then the stories had changed so many times and there was so much circumstantial evidence that detective
00:40:25
Savage and the others definitely thought that Fred wasn't telling the whole truth
00:40:29
so they were not going to stop at that um and at this point they have no idea what's in anyway what is in store for
00:40:35
them they're looking for Heather so he that's why he thought they'll stop after that how could they ever know that I
00:40:41
have 12 other bodies in this house meanwhile it's like dude what if they don't even find Heather first and they
00:40:46
find someone else well he was trying to lead them right to Heather so that they would stop like how do you even remember
00:40:52
now whatever Fred's motive his plan didn't work investigators continue digging in the back backyard obviously
00:40:58
because if you can kill your own child you are capable of a lot you [ __ ] idiot obviously also imagine living next
00:41:05
door to this and being like that was there the entire time how many 12 B I wave to all my neighbors constantly like
00:41:13
hey hey hey being like I just wave to that man every [ __ ] morning as he walked out and stood on top of his child
00:41:21
literally and countless other bodies and dismembered all these people too like their neighbors are probably sitting
00:41:27
there being like in that house at night sometimes when a light was on they were sawing a part a body yeah sometimes
00:41:35
their own child right and I was just going to sleep it would be so hard to stay like your house isn't even where
00:41:43
the horrors happened I feel like I would have such a hard time staying in my own
00:41:48
house after that I would have trouble staying in that neighborhood I would have trouble there was a lot of people
00:41:52
that had a lot of that was a that was a big source of just really bad vibes and really bad stuff like after this like
00:42:02
people were horrified that it was standing they were I mean looking at that house afterwards I can't imagine no
00:42:08
just knowing the horrors that happened there it's it's so dark dark isn't even the word for it because it's not just
00:42:13
murder it's sexual assault it's rape it's child abuse it's child sexual assault I mean that the things that were
00:42:19
found in that house are Beyond Comprehension and that just the energy surrounding the entire Place must have
00:42:24
just been abysmal yeah but the investigators kept digging up the backyard and within a week they
00:42:30
discovered not one but two sets of remains in the west backyard and a day later a third was discovered and the
00:42:37
third set of remains were identified as Heather West so they didn't even find Heather find her first now on February
00:42:44
27th 1994 Fred and Rose West were arrested for murder when the discovery in the garden was announced to the press
00:42:51
the police and missing persons Bureau was flooded with calls from around the country all with people loved ones who'd
00:42:57
gone missing and they were like potentially are they in that back have to make that call is my loved one in
00:43:03
that Garden like I can't even think of it how do you Bureau DET uh director Christopher Dre told the Press we have
00:43:10
been inundated with calls we have 19 lines and during yesterday they were engaged constantly as the search kept
00:43:17
going local residents watched in absolute horror these neighbors as one body after another was taken from this
00:43:25
home they just watched being like what the [ __ ] and at the same time stepen and
00:43:31
one of the other siblings West siblings began speaking to reporters to try to defend their
00:43:37
parents and in the interview with the Gloucester Echo Steph repeated the story about Heather running off and insisted
00:43:44
she was still alive and he said we would not live here if we thought they had murdered her no of course that tells you
00:43:50
the depth of yeah of how they're being manipulated abused here like they have been taught to be this way and they're
00:43:58
probably just desperate to think I would never have been in this house if I knew she was back there if I
00:44:04
knew that they killed my sister like but as the days went on it was getting harder to defend Fred and Rose and by
00:44:11
the end of the first week of March the ninth body had been removed from the west house and investigator and this was
00:44:18
within only a couple weeks my God and investigators expected to find more in the basement so that was just the
00:44:24
backyard nine bodies in the yard by that Point Fred had been forly charged with the murder of Heather and the murder of
00:44:31
former lodger Shirley Anne Robinson but detectives fully expected that there were going to be way more charges to
00:44:37
come the growing number of bodies and the very slow identification process led to a great deal of speculation
00:44:44
especially around The Disappearance of uh Mary basol many years earlier Mary's brother Peter said and this is so sad he
00:44:53
said quote in some ways it would be a relief if police identify her as it would stop the wondering and we would be
00:44:58
able to hold a funeral for her yeah oh like to have to think like that's I guess our best case scenario at this
00:45:05
point like that's so awful by mid-march all the bodies had been removed from the
00:45:10
house but there was still a lot of work to be done to identify all of them in the meantime Fred must have realized
00:45:16
that things were looking pretty bad because he started speaking to investigators wow mistakenly believing
00:45:23
that he could explain away the 12 dead bodies discovered in his house huh um but Fred's statements would eventually
00:45:29
prove pretty useful in the identification process luckily like through no he didn't mean to it just
00:45:35
happened um but he was really stupid he was not intelligent and he was really a bad liar to be honest like he was able
00:45:44
to lie to vulnerable people but when somebody's trying to detect one and looking for it as a trained in pretty
00:45:51
bad it um so his interviews were really vague they were sometimes confusing very
00:45:56
frustrating interviews he's also not dealing with younger people ex younger people who have already been through
00:46:03
things and are vulnerable and right will will believe a lot more because they've
00:46:07
been through a lot more these are seasoned investigative adults now by the end of March Fred had
00:46:13
been charged with nine murders and by the end of June when the victims had finally been identified he was formally
00:46:19
charged with 11 counts of first-degree murder 11 now while Fred kept talking to investigators about the women found in
00:46:26
the house Rose had also started talking to detectives and at that point interviews with the West's extended
00:46:32
family and several of the children revealed that she was not a [ __ ] unfortunate victim she was trying to
00:46:40
make herself that yeah the extended family and all the children were like uhuh no she's been time Rose was a very
00:46:47
willing participant in the violence um in she was the one that initiated it yeah she was just as bad now sensing
00:46:54
that she was soon going to be under investigation herself Rose turned on Fred wow which tells you exactly who she
00:47:01
is wow and started giving investigators any information that they asked for and hope that she might be spared this
00:47:07
really is so akin to my Myra immediately turn like wow which you're like cuz you're not [ __ ] human
00:47:14
you don't have human emotions you don't love each other that's not what that is you don't know what love is you're out
00:47:19
for number one and Rose's betrayal created further fractures in the family um as Steven responded the son Steven
00:47:27
responded to her betrayal by going to a reporter from the news of the world and giving an exclusive interview about what
00:47:33
he experienced and what he saw on June 30th Fred and Rose West appeared before a judge in Gloucester magistrates Court
00:47:40
um the first time they'd seen each other since Fred's arrest in February they were jointly charged with nine counts of
00:47:47
first-degree murder among other things why only nine if they found more bodies I think they were still trying to
00:47:53
identify people oh okay they were jointly charged with nine counsel a first-degree murder among various other
00:47:59
things and Fred was charged with the additional murders of Reena and Charmaine oh okay because he did those
00:48:07
his on his own presumably on his own well actually Rose killed Charmaine right that's what we think but but he
00:48:15
ended up I think he ended up I me not that I'm like should Char Char I'm just like wait a second I think it was just
00:48:22
going off of evidence but um as the and also remember he was the one who disposed of charmaine's body and
00:48:30
dismembered her yes so there was that I don't know what the lead up and again we
00:48:34
don't know the details of the leadup to that we presume that Rose rage uh killed that little girl oh
00:48:44
now as the summer turned to fall it must have occurred to Fred that things were really bad for him at this point yeah no
00:48:51
matter what he told investigators about supposedly consensual sexual encounter relation they all dead in your garden
00:48:59
dude accidents he kept saying they were all whoops you're so unfortunate yeah it's wild um but no matter what he was
00:49:08
saying he'd left a trail of bodies in three locations and no lies or excuses were going to be enough to spare him the
00:49:15
absolute harshest penalties available like he wasn't getting out of there like what are you even thinking at that point
00:49:20
yeah now it was it hit him I mean he knew right there's no getting out of I'm going to get the worst what whatever
00:49:26
they can give me I'm going to get it so on the afternoon of January 1st 1995 just before 1 p.m. a prison officer at
00:49:34
Winston green jail in Birmingham went to check on Fred and found him hanging from
00:49:40
a noose that he'd fashioned from his own shirt that makes me so angry that [ __ ] should have been on 247
00:49:48
surveillance before he got to do anything well so medical Prof Personnel tried for 30 minutes to revive him but
00:49:57
their efforts were useless he was dead uh but Fred had been on suicide watch since the hearing in July but in
00:50:04
December those restrictions had been lifted he was no longer deemed highrisk so he had been on suicide watch for
00:50:11
months and then the second he got off it the second it was lifted in fact the asshol seemed to be
00:50:18
in High Spirits the night before his death he played pool he was celebrating the new year with the other inmates he
00:50:25
celebrating his last [ __ ] day on Earth the guards told reporters he seemed completely normal it was just
00:50:29
like any other day wow now this is this is the only thing that's good I guess is
00:50:36
that the news of Fred's death was met with resounding cheers from nearly everyone who'd been affected by his M so
00:50:43
that is good so as long as they're they look at it as that's good enough for me Allison chamers mother Joan Owen said
00:50:51
this is the best news I've heard for a long time after all the evil things he did that supposed be the only good thing
00:50:56
he ever did anyone who can do what he did and then walk around and act as if nothing happened is truly evil
00:51:02
absolutely and Marie's husband Chris Davis was very enthusiastic about the news calling Fred suicide a great result
00:51:10
and saying he will rot in hell for what he did he deserves everything that's waiting for him and I say agreed here
00:51:17
here Chin Chin here here now although Fred Su aside meant that he was not going to be legally held accountable for
00:51:24
the crimes he committed nearly everyone seemed to take the news well including those who worked in the justice system
00:51:30
to be honest well and if you think about it it's like he's able to sit there in [ __ ] jail and play pool and shoot the
00:51:36
[ __ ] with other inmates like he shouldn't have that ability now he canot rotten hail yeah rotten hail now the
00:51:42
massive investigation had taken a huge financial toll on Glo I always say this wrong and I apologize I'm going to try
00:51:48
to say it right gloustershire gler justice system I hope I said that right for you guys and was an immense
00:51:55
strain on the min IP Al's resources I mean they were struggling through this so if nothing else it saved everyone a
00:52:03
lot of time money and heartache well that's good so everyone involves seems see you yeah honestly everybody involves
00:52:09
seems fine with it so I'm so that's all that I'll take at first I was like come on but well and that's and that's
00:52:15
honestly I see why you said that because there is a part of it that you're like [ __ ] he didn't face the mus well and
00:52:22
also his death presented a big problem for the crown prosecution service because they were intending to prosecute
00:52:28
rose with Fred unable to corroborate any of the statements he' made regarding her
00:52:34
participation and the murders there was they weren't admissible in court anymore
00:52:38
his statements and they would have to rely on Rose's statements alone so that's not good so that sucks now
00:52:46
despite pressure to drop the charges against Rose which would save obviously a lot of
00:52:53
time and money detective superintendent John who was in charge of the case reassured the families that the case
00:53:00
against Rose was going forward that's a real one right there he said whilst financed must always be a consideration
00:53:06
with any investigation or inquiry it is always secondary to the result of any of
00:53:11
the inquiries we have undertaken we are totally committed to the care of the victim's families with this case that's
00:53:16
incredible now Rose's trial began October 3rd 1995 at Winchester Crown Court in Hampshire before Justice
00:53:23
Charles mantel I like justice Charles M to you have to wonder where that other Justice was that like threw out the
00:53:30
first sexual assault case I'm like where are you cuz let's smack him in the face
00:53:36
a little bit but I'm glad we have a Justice now that we like here he's good now arguing for the crown was prosecutor
00:53:41
Brian leveson while Rose's defense team was led by Richard Ferguson Ferguson in the months leading up to the trial the
00:53:48
defense made a lot of attempts to get it thrown out completely wow which I'm like
00:53:52
how do you [ __ ] sleep at night I'm sorry I know we've gone through this and I know I'll get a ton of messages that
00:53:56
are like that's our job I know that I realize that one though you're like this one I don't understand I know it's their
00:54:02
job I get M's Not Innocent though but like I personally don't I could never Mama's not innocent and I'm sorry but
00:54:09
y'all don't believe that she is but they were trying to get it thrown out on The
00:54:12
Logical idea that given the intense and lurid press coverage since the arrest there was no way that Rose was going to
00:54:18
get a fair trial well but the judge said hm disagree and the case was allowed to
00:54:24
proceed which I love that the judge like huh yeah that nope I don't think so I think it's good maybe you don't be
00:54:31
involved in murdering that many people and you'll find a fair trial oh oh you won't actually have to have a trial yeah
00:54:35
cuz you about that now in his opening statement to the jury Justice mantel reminded them that they were expected to
00:54:41
leave behind all preconceptions Prejudice and sentiment they that they had about the defendant and base their
00:54:48
decisions entirely on the case as it was presented in court yeah so he did his due diligence he says enter upon your
00:54:54
very heavy responsibility in a clear cut way unaffected by anything you may have
00:54:58
read about this case which certainly has its Sensational aspects can you imagine
00:55:04
sitting on this jury no with his statement out of the way the clerk read the charges against Rose and the most
00:55:11
significant of which those um of those charges were the 10 counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of sh
00:55:17
because she was eventually charged with Charmaine good Charmaine West Linda gof Carol Cooper Lucy Partington theres seen
00:55:25
thaler sh hubard Wanita M shirleyanne Robinson Allison Chambers and Heather West you hear all the names it's like
00:55:34
horrifying it is and these are all young girls who had their whole lives ahead of
00:55:38
them in his opening statement Brian leveson laid out the facts for the jury in Grizzly detail emphasizing the fact
00:55:45
that Rose had been a very enthusiastic and active participant in the brutally violent sexual T torture
00:55:53
and murder of at least 10 women wow he said the picture which I shall described revealed by the evidence and
00:56:00
the material including photographs you will see is in places horrific and harrowing I do not do this to shock or
00:56:07
provoke sympathy but so that you have an entire picture against which to decide the case now leveson began uh his story
00:56:15
with the murder of Heather West and then he worked backwards okay he provided details on all the other nine women Rose
00:56:21
was accused of killing and he said for the rest their last moments on Earth where as objects of the sexual depravity
00:56:28
of this woman and her husband yep which I think is a perfect way of describing it and it is so bone chilling and so
00:56:36
[ __ ] gut-wrenching but it's the truth and it Paints the picture of like look at this [ __ ] monster sitting before
00:56:41
you she treated them as objects and she very much did I mean the fact that they covered their faces the way they did and
00:56:47
she was part of everything yeah one after another the expert Witnesses told the evidence collected in the west home
00:56:53
this um included several homemade torture devices are you kidding me and sexual props and also a variety of
00:57:00
pornographic materials that included the abuse of children's children and animals
00:57:05
oh my God they're the wor you can't think of something worse than them no it's every gross horrific nasty thing
00:57:14
that exists that was their thing also forensic experts and several Pathologists were called to the stand
00:57:20
all of them did their best to explain the evidence discovered on the bodies exuded from the graves at both the West
00:57:26
homes and the field where an McFall and Reena West were buried now arguing in Rose's
00:57:32
defense Richard Ferguson claims Rose was innocent and was as much a victim of Fred as anyone else please he said he
00:57:40
abused her as he abused everyone else in his evil life and he said it is because
00:57:44
of him that she is before the court no it's not testifying in her own defense girl bye Rose told the jury about her
00:57:52
difficult upbringing and her own experiences with sexual violence that had led her to trust a man like Fred
00:57:58
West he she said he promised me the world he promised me everything because I was so young I fell for his lies he
00:58:05
promised to love and care for me and I fell for it okay girl sure that's how you entered into this with FR exactly
00:58:12
I'll give you that y but you became what the [ __ ] are you doing now burying another child and murdering it yeah what
00:58:19
the [ __ ] are you doing now exactly and what are you doing in a house with child
00:58:23
abuse images and animal abuse images torture devices that you made together your daughter in the backyard cuz you
00:58:30
had a tough upbringing like plenty of people have a tough upbringing people in the courtroom somebody raised their hand
00:58:34
did you have a tough upbringing did you do this like shut the [ __ ] up Rose no that's absolutely
00:58:40
ridiculous to claim a she was in tears she cried I bet she was and if it scored any points with the jury we don't know
00:58:49
because she then had a very combative attitude under cross-examination by the prosecutor and that didn't help her at
00:58:55
all and they I'm sure that's when they saw the real rose that's when she came out for real Rose had portrayed herself
00:59:00
as a scapegoat for Fred's crimes saying I'm the one now in the spotlight Fred Russ is dead and I've got to be made
00:59:07
responsible for what he has done [ __ ] please leveson though said [ __ ] off Rose
00:59:13
he didn't hesitate he fired right back saying it's not everyone dumping everything on you it's you dumping
00:59:20
everything on Fred you fully participated in each and every murder didn't you yep and it's possible that a
00:59:27
1995 jury could have been sympathetic to the argument put forth by the defense AB
00:59:32
of course but the problem was there was like no evidence or testimony to back up
00:59:37
any of the claims she had of being an innocent victim right Fred and Rose had developed very few social relationships
00:59:44
outside of themselves at least very few that weren't built on sexual exploitation so there was almost no one
00:59:51
who would testify on her behalf like no one anybody who testified was testifying
00:59:56
against her there was no one that was going to sit up there and say she was anything but a [ __ ] monster and also
01:00:02
in the years since the arrests were first made the family had fractured and parted even more right with nearly
01:00:08
everyone abandoning Fred and Rose well because at that point it's like everything coming to light and they're
01:00:14
probably at this point processing their own traumas now that they have time to be away from their parents Mon moners
01:00:21
and the result of her very tearful performance GP pretty ineffective yeah so she really wasted give a [ __ ] for all
01:00:29
those girls crying in fact you you couldn't even see it you wrapped their head in plastic tape while they cried
01:00:34
underneath that so [ __ ] you so [ __ ] you Rose but further complicating matters
01:00:38
was the multiple Witnesses and living victims who testified that they had been sexually assaulted and abused by both
01:00:45
Fred and Rose at their home on Cromwell Street so she wasn't going to get I don't know what she good try that's the
01:00:51
thing you there's still living people that you've affected that are going to come out and say [ __ ] you you were part
01:00:55
of the thing exactly good when leveson confronted rose with the violent sexual assault on Caroline Owens in
01:01:02
1972 Rose responded by saying are you ready for this no her response to this no it was a oneoff it was the one
01:01:10
mistake I made in my life I regret it now the one mistake you killed anold you killed a [ __ ] 8-year-old
01:01:20
you sat by and watched your [ __ ] husband kill your daughter you sat by and you [ __ ] participated in how many
01:01:27
other murders and you want to sit there and call it a oneoff it was This Woman's violent and brutal and horrific
01:01:36
and traumatizing sexual assaults and torture was a wof it's one mistake I made a mistake is like oh [ __ ] I just
01:01:45
got in like a fender bender oopsie a mistake is oops I put someone on an email I shouldn't have yeah that's a
01:01:52
mistake oops my bad this the fact that her mind works that way that she's like it was a one-off like why are you even
01:01:59
bringing that up a one call that a oneoff nobody else's one mistake in their life is violently torturing and
01:02:06
sexually assaulting a woman sorry that's not that's not what anybody can describe
01:02:10
as a one-off oops a mistake no no no no no no no but and the thing was he wasn't
01:02:16
a oneoff since the jury had just heard testimony from a number of other young women who told the court about their
01:02:23
assault by Fred and Rose West it was never just Fred none of these women were getting up there saying oh yeah and Rose
01:02:32
was just you know around the house or something no rose actively participated doing the same things now in this in his
01:02:39
closing statement Richard Ferguson the defense um shut up reminded the jury that they should find his client not
01:02:45
guilty no bye that didn't mean the murders like they said if you find my client not guilty that doesn't mean the
01:02:50
murders go unpunished he said Frederick West provided his own solution his death
01:02:56
has ensured that the relatives of the victims need not worry that the their deaths have gone unpunished so that's a
01:03:02
weight that's been lifted from your shoulders if that woman didn't sit in [ __ ] prison those families would have
01:03:08
been absolutely outraged don't even pretend for a second this man stood up there and said she didn't do anything
01:03:16
and then Said Fred Rose took care about everybody why are you being such [ __ ] about it he literally sat there and was
01:03:23
like what he killed himself move on he got punished he that's exactly what he he literally was like he killed himself
01:03:30
pun why are we here that's literally what he's saying here is like what you don't have to worry anymore oh I don't
01:03:37
have to worry how about all these the problem is sitting up here and you're telling me that she could walk how about
01:03:42
all these women that are sitting here oh yeah telling me their experiences also what if she were to meet somebody as
01:03:47
equally depraved you're going to tell me that going happen again she'll go find it she [ __ ] has a type clearly well
01:03:53
and as he had done as he had done through most of the trial he used his closing arguments to put all of the
01:03:59
responsibility on Fred and reminded the jury that the case was almost entirely circumstantial and then he warned them
01:04:05
not to get caught up in the details about Fred and Rose's quote unquote unconventional sex
01:04:12
life I was like you sir unconventional honestly my antenna's up on you if that's what you call this like I'd be
01:04:20
like somebody needs to go search his [ __ ] hard drive what's going on there unon unconventional sex life is what
01:04:26
you're calling this that man practiced like I know you got a job I know you got a job to
01:04:33
do wow youed you Ed the phrase unconventional set you could have omitted that one he practiced that in
01:04:41
his closing arguments before standing up there in front of everybody you could have omitted that somebody probably
01:04:45
signed off on that and was like yeah good call yeah that's fine what the actual [ __ ] [ __ ] blew my mind
01:04:53
unconventional in the end the jury was thankfully pretty unmoved by Ferguson's argument thankfully yeah I mean you
01:05:02
never know how something's going to go but like in this I mean you're like come on my guy yeah and on November 22nd 1995
01:05:09
Rose West was found guilty of all 10 murders with the judge passing sentence the very same day good and judge mantel
01:05:19
said the sentence is one of life in prison if any attention is paid to what I think you will never be released and I
01:05:26
was like let's go yeah honestly judge Manel imposed the maximum penalty Allowed by
01:05:33
the law sentencing her to at least 25 years but in 1997 Home Secretary Jack straw citing the brutality of the case
01:05:42
because it is quite clearly above and beyond most cases 100% he imposed a whole life tariff meaning Rose would
01:05:51
spend the rest of her life in prison I've never even heard of that well this was only the second time the sentence
01:05:57
had been imposed on a woman in UK history wow and it's because it's so brutal they were like you can never
01:06:03
leave like we can never let you out that's crazy I want to look up the first person who got it I know I didn't I
01:06:08
didn't look it up I should have but yeah if you will look it up now Rose maintains her
01:06:13
innocence get so [ __ ] [ __ ] into the sun rose truly [ __ ] off but since her failed bid at an appeal in 1996 the year
01:06:23
that Ash came into this world hey she's declined to pursue any further appeals because one she knows she's guilty as
01:06:30
[ __ ] and two she knows she's not getting out interesting actually Myra Henley End
01:06:35
up wonder if it was Myra she's not the only one I think I wondered if it was Myra there's Myra and then there's
01:06:41
Joanna Deni oh okay I'm not sure I wondered if Myra was going to be in there so Fred and Rose West are among
01:06:50
clearly the most prolific and shocking and horrific and brutal and sadistic serial killers in the in UK history
01:06:59
definitely and their story and those of their victims honestly remains as horrifying and appalling today as it did
01:07:06
when they were first arrested and that's some 30 years ago but while Rose has been in prison since her sentencing the
01:07:12
story has continued to evolve in 1996 anarie Davis the West's oldest daughter alleged that her uncle John West had
01:07:22
sexually assaulted her more than 300 times between 1975 and 1980 oh no that's her
01:07:30
uncle according to anarie when she complained to Rose about the abuse her mother laughed and told her don't be
01:07:37
stupid don't don't be stupid about what John West was arrested and was facing a trial himself when he hanged himself in
01:07:46
his garage in November 1996 what yeah same fate wow now two years later in the spring of 1998 Fred's cousin William
01:07:57
Hill was arrested and charged with sexually assaulting four young girls in his home in M Markle in
01:08:04
1976 he was only 24 years old at the time oh my God what happened to this family this family is just has like
01:08:11
disgusting [ __ ] running deep he was questioned at the time and denied any involvement but and he wasn't arrested
01:08:18
until 1997 when more victims came forward oh no the this a pathology throughout this
01:08:24
family it is and while there's no question that Fred and Rose killed the 12 victims referenced in the court
01:08:30
documents investigators do believe there's more victims abut including Mary basol and efforts to recover their
01:08:37
bodies have been ongoing as recently as 2021 wow and recently investigators in Gloucester have been digging at several
01:08:44
sites around the city where Fred was known to have visited worked hung out anything but as of now they have yet to
01:08:50
find any additional victims you really I mean you hope that like there aren't any
01:08:57
Logics you that he didn't go that long like these these year periods and even like at one point there was an
01:09:04
eight-year period I just don't buy with how sick and twisted they were that they
01:09:08
didn't yeah that's you don't want there to be additional victims obviously but you also if they're missing persons that
01:09:16
are victims of them you want them to be found and identified yes exactly it it really is such a double-edged sword yeah
01:09:22
it just doesn't make sense that they're going these long periods of time but you
01:09:25
know I mean it happens strange I just feel like because of their pathology yeah they seem frenzied frenzi very
01:09:33
frenzied and very um it was almost like instinct to them like yeah it was like a
01:09:39
kneejerk kind of thing yep absolutely yeah it just seems like they wouldn't have taken that time but yeah who knows
01:09:46
but I'm glad that we got through the whole thing and that we were able to I feel like you did a really good job of
01:09:52
like telling each victim's story and like I feel like like I've said I've heard this case covered before but I
01:09:58
don't think I heard as much detail about each girl no thank you and honestly Dave
01:10:03
is a absolute I'm going to canonize him I think like he's a saint for for helping me with this because he was just
01:10:11
as like elbow deep as I was and I think we're both just like okay bye and he was so good at that and you
01:10:21
guys if you're looking if you do want to read anarie West's book is is out of the
01:10:26
Shadows we'll link it in the show notes and it's harrowing truly harrowing sounds like she went through so much
01:10:33
more than any of us could ever even imagine yeah it's truly unbelievable all right well you promised to do something
01:10:40
spooky yooki or like oh yeah I'm I'm taking a little bit of a turn we got something spooky coming from you next
01:10:48
yeah um and I think we'll have a listener Tale in between this and the next episode so that will be a nice
01:10:53
little pallet cleanser pal answer and in the meantime we hope you keep listening
01:10:57
and we hope you keep it weird you know I'm not going to tell you not to keep it this weird because that would be so
01:11:03
silly of me to say cuz I know you won't keep it us fa no by bye [Music] [Music] [Music]