00:00:00
Dana today we have Susan Morrison a
00:00:02
writer uh we don't always have writers
00:00:05
we have SNL writers but she's a writer
00:00:07
SNL yeah yes yes she wrote a big fat
00:00:10
book about
00:00:11
Lauren and it's the 50th anniversary of
00:00:14
SNL it's a good time to have it out um
00:00:17
Lauren the man who invented
00:00:22
SNL and uh she covers a lot she's
00:00:25
telling things to you listeners that
00:00:28
even we don't know you're going to
00:00:30
here's something that's a a little
00:00:31
shocking a little surprising how's that
00:00:33
for a tease but if we do a deep dive the
00:00:36
man the moment Lauren Michaels uh based
00:00:40
on the book and what she learned by
00:00:41
interviewing I got interviewed I don't
00:00:43
don't my quotes are probably silly I got
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interviewed got interviewed everyone got
00:00:47
interviewed everyone talked and it's
00:00:49
just sort of a comprehensive look at
00:00:51
Lauren Michaels through his childhood
00:00:53
all the way through his travails Seasons
00:00:56
that were rougher than others and on and
00:00:58
on so it's a very interesting
00:01:01
Sayan oh yeah and they got you know Tina
00:01:05
Fay and Steve Martin and John malany
00:01:08
there's all these quotes up front and
00:01:10
everywhere you turn you know who they're
00:01:11
talking about so very indepth took years
00:01:14
to put this together years to put it
00:01:17
together and uh and it was very
00:01:18
interesting talk we went on and on so uh
00:01:21
yeah here she is and you're going to
00:01:22
learn a lot
00:01:28
Morrison and I started forgot I I had
00:01:31
forgotten until
00:01:32
recently the the wonderful accent thing
00:01:34
that everybody says the igles oh the
00:01:36
igles
00:01:38
right so you claim to have a book I do I
00:01:42
actually can even show it to you just
00:01:45
it's coming out okay I don't know when
00:01:47
this airs but it's February 18th it's
00:01:49
called right
00:01:51
Lauren the man who invented SNL that's
00:01:56
right independed Saturday night life we
00:01:57
decided that Lauren has monomial status
00:02:01
you know like or Madonna Madonna you
00:02:05
know one one name does it Lauren you
00:02:07
know you can tell the rookies because
00:02:10
Lauren is such a uh name that comes up
00:02:13
millions of times in our podcast and in
00:02:15
life but the people that call him Lauren
00:02:18
and they spell it Lauren like the female
00:02:21
name is pretty interesting because you
00:02:23
know they're an outsider and I don't
00:02:25
listen to one thing they
00:02:26
say it's like the people who say skits
00:02:29
and instead of
00:02:31
sket immediate disqualifier right d oh
00:02:35
boy don't even me oh skits gets him
00:02:38
going it's kind of interesting to me I'm
00:02:39
just thinking out loud to myself is that
00:02:42
because of his hallowed place and his uh
00:02:45
Mount Rushmore you know thing that's
00:02:48
been going on for the 50th um he had
00:02:52
left for five years did a lot of things
00:02:54
left SNL in 1980 none of them really
00:02:57
landed comes back in 85 has a rough
00:03:02
season and then then I meet him so
00:03:05
probably in this whole 50 years that was
00:03:08
would it be a n i I went to State School
00:03:10
his nater or something I think no I
00:03:13
think that's right and Dana I remember
00:03:16
that when I interviewed you you told me
00:03:19
that when you showed up there you
00:03:20
thought you were probably going to be in
00:03:21
the last cast of SNL you thought it was
00:03:24
on its way out and it was kind of a hail
00:03:26
marry pass and you know it's interesting
00:03:29
because I'm met Lauren when he was
00:03:31
perhaps at an even lower point you know
00:03:33
I work for him well I worked for him
00:03:36
when he did the new show which was new
00:03:39
show yeah remember public spectacular
00:03:42
flop and you know I don't think people
00:03:46
thought he was going to be coming back
00:03:48
from that and he also lost his own money
00:03:49
in that show it's strange it was such a
00:03:52
flop because it was packed with Talent
00:03:55
you know the writer room was incredible
00:03:58
Jim Downey Jack Handy George me wow John
00:04:01
John Candy did amazing work on that show
00:04:04
it's worth looking up food repair man no
00:04:06
I watched it was funny it was just that
00:04:08
besides In Living Color which was a
00:04:10
niche kind of um prime time and it was
00:04:14
on Fox in the day Prime Time sketch I
00:04:17
did one that didn't make it Martin Short
00:04:19
did I you have to line them all up
00:04:20
that's your next book why was there
00:04:23
bazillion sketch shows in prime time the
00:04:26
50s 60s and into the 70s and then so
00:04:30
many swing in a miss you know I don't
00:04:33
know if you have I've never totally
00:04:35
figured that out I I mean I I have a I
00:04:38
have an a theory Lauren press he loved
00:04:42
uh oh sure we've been recording don't
00:04:44
worry I'm kidding Lauren loved variety
00:04:49
TV you know he grew up watching um you
00:04:51
know Sid Caesar and your show shows and
00:04:54
all that stuff and when he went to LA in
00:04:57
the 60s and 70s he just bounced around
00:04:59
from one Cuddy variety show to the next
00:05:01
you know Perry Como Burns and shriber pH
00:05:05
what about Burns and shriber where he
00:05:07
met his wife yeah but but um the thing
00:05:11
is he liked the form but he thought that
00:05:13
it was like stuck in the 50s you know
00:05:15
the people writing those shows were guys
00:05:18
who had written for radio and his big
00:05:20
idea was to take that format and bring
00:05:22
it into the modern world you know movies
00:05:26
were cool you had Terrence Malik and
00:05:28
Robert Alman music was coool but
00:05:30
television was like a really weird
00:05:31
Backwater so he was the first person who
00:05:34
said let's make variety TV something
00:05:38
that has something to do with what
00:05:40
people in their 20s are like you know
00:05:41
let's put drugs on yeah and in my age
00:05:46
group uh you remember that when George
00:05:48
Carlin was on Ed Sullivan in a suit and
00:05:50
tie in a short
00:05:52
haircut yeah and he he was like so a a
00:05:56
symbol of this change and one one lane
00:06:00
of it when he became the hippie long
00:06:02
hair and all that so there was a whole I
00:06:05
don't even call it counterculture but
00:06:06
laugh him maybe was the last water
00:06:09
cooler sketch show that was so different
00:06:12
of course than SNL but yeah it was it
00:06:15
was in The Ether and then Lauren Lauren
00:06:18
picked up the toys off the carpet and
00:06:20
said okay we're gonna play with the but
00:06:21
you know the I mean the other thing that
00:06:23
Lauren will say is that when he he was
00:06:26
pitching a show like SNL for years and
00:06:28
nobody wanted it
00:06:30
and what happened is that they needed
00:06:32
something in late night on SN you know
00:06:34
on NBC to replace Carson's reruns and
00:06:37
Lauren had never thought of late night
00:06:40
and but the thing it ended up being what
00:06:43
made the show work because the way he
00:06:45
put it you know the network thought of
00:06:47
late night as like a vacant lot on the
00:06:49
edge of town they weren't going to pay
00:06:51
attention to what was going on there
00:06:52
they weren't going to meddle you know he
00:06:54
just got to do whatever the hell he felt
00:06:55
like and with no notes you know no
00:06:59
interf
00:07:00
right and you can be a little dirty like
00:07:02
even TV shows on at 8 versus 9 when I
00:07:05
was a sitcom you can say a little more
00:07:07
at 9 cuz kids are asleep you say way
00:07:09
more at 10: and when you're way up there
00:07:11
at 11:30 they don't worry so much about
00:07:15
content as much yeah I think he thought
00:07:18
they were probably not even watching you
00:07:20
know well they didn't care it was anti
00:07:23
anti slick and and late so it right out
00:07:26
of the bat I'm just a little curious
00:07:27
sorry David did you have something to
00:07:28
say not at all to interrupt him did you
00:07:31
see the movie Saturday night uh and what
00:07:35
was your reaction to it I mean obviously
00:07:37
it's trying to get a feeling rather than
00:07:39
a linear story yeah but um did you how
00:07:43
did you feel about well I had I I guess
00:07:45
I had several simultaneous reactions you
00:07:47
know the journalist in me was watching
00:07:49
with my head exploding because there
00:07:51
were so many things that were
00:07:53
fictionalized or you know five years
00:07:55
worth of events were kind of crammed
00:07:57
into one night but I I did think that it
00:08:02
it it captured some of as you guys know
00:08:04
you've lived this you know just some of
00:08:06
the nail-biting knife edge chaos that I
00:08:10
think gives the show its U continues to
00:08:12
fuel the show it's funny I talked to
00:08:15
some of the current people the people at
00:08:17
the show now some of the writers and
00:08:19
casts and they were indignant about it
00:08:22
um they said that it was sort of like
00:08:24
watching somebody you know Screw Up Your
00:08:27
Song in a karaoke bar or you know that
00:08:30
someone they were feeling proprietary
00:08:32
about it what did you guys
00:08:35
think well well I went in into it with a
00:08:38
you know kind eyes because I knew it was
00:08:40
an impossible thing to really capture so
00:08:43
we interviewed Jason the
00:08:46
director and um there were things that I
00:08:49
really liked we you know in real
00:08:52
time uh that there probably wasn't a a
00:08:56
bulletin board on 8 with like 80
00:08:58
sketches on it right before air or that
00:09:00
Lauren Michaels was the update guy until
00:09:02
right before air so you have to kind of
00:09:05
give into it and see Did It capture the
00:09:07
essence I wasn't there then they weren't
00:09:10
famous the show wasn't famous because as
00:09:13
it evolved it would never no one would
00:09:15
go ice skating right before the show and
00:09:18
most of the show is Disappointment even
00:09:21
in the best seasons and the best shows
00:09:24
I'd say maybe if you can get one out of
00:09:27
five great sketch pretty good most the
00:09:30
time I was just there for 10 weeks most
00:09:32
of the time we all went well I guess
00:09:33
that's it and just walked off
00:09:36
stage no I I mean I found it enjoyable
00:09:40
to watch it kind of you know it felt
00:09:42
like the Poseidon Adventure or something
00:09:43
you know it was almost like an adventure
00:09:45
flick you know I love that that
00:09:48
reference I love theic yeah there's got
00:09:51
to be a morning
00:09:53
after there has to be a party after the
00:09:56
show other people I know told me they
00:09:59
had similar reaction to to mine at the
00:10:02
very end when it comes off and they do
00:10:04
the Wolverine sketch and Chevy comes out
00:10:07
and says live from New York and Saturday
00:10:08
night I mean I kind of teared up a
00:10:10
little bit because it made you realize
00:10:13
how improbable the whole show was and
00:10:16
how close it came to not happening you
00:10:19
know it it could easily have not
00:10:21
happened I did like little things I
00:10:22
didn't know now Dana I was going to ask
00:10:25
Jason about that Lauren one for update
00:10:27
because I did like the chaos I did like
00:10:29
it was almost obviously too chaotic but
00:10:32
definitely
00:10:34
knowing no no Fame it just shows people
00:10:37
it's like sort of here's what it was if
00:10:39
you don't know how it started this is
00:10:41
they weren't famous no one thinks of Dan
00:10:44
Aid or Belushi is not famous you know so
00:10:47
you have to go back and say hey they all
00:10:49
get a job it's a cruddy place they're
00:10:52
just throwing [ __ ] together and then it
00:10:55
there's you know Billy Crystal leaving
00:10:57
those are cool moments where you go oh
00:10:59
my God there's just so many things that
00:11:01
happened where everything there was
00:11:03
lifechanging you get me in the first
00:11:05
sketch Chevy's on update like this this
00:11:08
he's a big good-look dude I thought
00:11:09
there was a lot of parts about I really
00:11:11
did like and uh and you're right when it
00:11:15
all came together like what are the
00:11:16
bricks on the stage I don't even know
00:11:18
like I don't know what part was real
00:11:20
what wasn't you know fictionalized that
00:11:22
was real so that was real they were
00:11:23
hammering those bricks in the day of the
00:11:26
first show and of course the old-timers
00:11:28
on the crew
00:11:29
looked at Eugene Lee the designer you
00:11:32
know who wanted brought in old oak doors
00:11:35
and bricks and they said what the [ __ ]
00:11:37
are you doing you know we just use
00:11:40
Cyclorama walls and you know the way it
00:11:42
used to be in Old variety shows where
00:11:44
instead of a set you'd have like you
00:11:47
know a window frame or a tree in a pot
00:11:51
yeah suggests a park but Lauren's idea
00:11:54
was that you wanted this hard wall
00:11:55
reality and um it looked counterculture
00:11:58
and I did love when um was it JK Simmons
00:12:02
who play he played Milton Burl and he's
00:12:04
doing a song and dance number and that
00:12:06
was a really interesting ju toos because
00:12:09
the writer shows everything was shiny
00:12:11
and clean and 8h still looks the same
00:12:14
it's kind of beat up and if you walk in
00:12:16
there without an audience you're like
00:12:17
it's kind of a [ __ ] hole everyone thinks
00:12:19
it's tiny people go this isn't where you
00:12:21
because I went back to do Hunter Biden
00:12:22
it was just again like when Dana going
00:12:25
back you go oh so here's Tom wardrobe uh
00:12:31
you know this a lot of the same people
00:12:33
and a lot of it's obviously bigger and a
00:12:35
little fancier in places but you get out
00:12:37
there it's the same tiny stools even
00:12:40
people I was with were like this isn't
00:12:42
where the audience this is it this is
00:12:45
this is where every sketch is this tiny
00:12:47
room yeah I know wow it is that's the
00:12:50
fun of it you know can I I just unless
00:12:54
you have something you need to say well
00:12:55
one thing I was just going to say to you
00:12:57
know we were talking about the improb
00:12:59
ility of it and how those people weren't
00:13:01
famous it's one of the things that was
00:13:04
fascinating for me to learn is Lauren
00:13:06
had trouble hiring people like who
00:13:07
wanted to be on this late night show
00:13:10
with this weird Canadian guy no one had
00:13:12
never heard of had ever heard of and you
00:13:15
know Chevy almost didn't come on because
00:13:17
he was doing a play like a dinner
00:13:20
theater with Paul Lind you
00:13:23
know didn't take the J I like Broadway
00:13:28
yeah and uh I love that Paul Lind stood
00:13:31
in the way of another hire alen s Bell
00:13:34
almost didn't because he had been
00:13:37
offered a job in prime time writing the
00:13:40
questions for Paul Lind in the center
00:13:42
square of Hollywood Squares I have I had
00:13:45
a dirty joke about Paul L you want to
00:13:47
hear it anything about Paul cut um Paul
00:13:52
ly walked into a party and he goes it
00:13:54
smells like [ __ ] in here I think
00:14:00
anyway Dana back to you no I will say I
00:14:02
don't I don't get the reference I just
00:14:03
thought he was a funny guy I mean I
00:14:05
don't understand Paul was a hero by the
00:14:07
way with Hollywood Squares unreal when I
00:14:09
was a kid I laugh everything that dude
00:14:11
said oh he was always hilarious and I
00:14:14
Bewitched my God and bewitched and
00:14:16
wherever he was M had a great kind of
00:14:20
Rhythm you know just naturally funny I
00:14:23
was just curious so you knew Lauren
00:14:25
during the new show is that when you met
00:14:27
him yeah I uh
00:14:29
I I uh was brought into the brill
00:14:33
building um in 83 by Tom gaml gaml and
00:14:37
Fross who i' gone to college with and I
00:14:40
met Jim Downey uh for the first time and
00:14:43
Jim hired me just one second I I can
00:14:45
talk to you in a little bit I'll just be
00:14:46
right back I'll be right back no I want
00:14:48
I want to talk to you I really do but I
00:14:49
gotta go sorry go ahead stay right there
00:14:53
yeah stay right here so but yeah so Jim
00:14:57
in a rare Act of decisiveness right
00:14:59
hired me that day um rare act deis funny
00:15:03
to be his assistant I was 23 my gosh I
00:15:09
was 23 years old my job chiefly
00:15:12
consisted of ordering shitloads of food
00:15:14
from the Carnegie Del I mean you know if
00:15:17
I didn't know what chicken in the pot
00:15:18
was you know then I I wrers writers eat
00:15:22
they have to eat hle feed their brains
00:15:25
and you know it was a great thing for me
00:15:27
I was really young my mom had just died
00:15:29
suddenly and and I was kind of at Sea
00:15:33
and so I got to go to this place with
00:15:35
all these funny people every
00:15:37
day and they were so kind to me you know
00:15:40
and think about it I mean what a and
00:15:42
Christina mcginness and Lauren and
00:15:45
George Meyer and Jack Handy you know Z
00:15:48
Bell it was really it was fun so I
00:15:49
didn't have a lot of one-on-one time
00:15:51
with Lauren but it was a it was a pretty
00:15:54
small operation and we were all just in
00:15:56
this the little on the ninth floor of
00:15:57
the of the brill building
00:15:59
so yeah I mean I I knew him a little bit
00:16:02
and um again I didn't realize that what
00:16:04
I was witnessing was this Soul crushing
00:16:08
uh failure on his part how did he take
00:16:13
that failure if you could even remember
00:16:15
or all of you because I did a real I did
00:16:17
a variety show that lasted eight
00:16:19
episodes and kind of blew up the network
00:16:23
yeah so was this did you get a full
00:16:25
season or did you I don't long I no it
00:16:28
wasn't there were we were I think we did
00:16:31
like eight shows and then and this is
00:16:34
the thing that was really weird about it
00:16:36
you know Lauren had been used to working
00:16:37
live but the new show was taped on
00:16:41
Thursday to air on Friday so it brought
00:16:44
out all of Lauren's you know less genius
00:16:48
impulses I mean people always say that
00:16:51
Lauren always says that the show doesn't
00:16:53
go on because it's ready it goes on
00:16:54
because it's 11:30 and you know he he
00:16:57
needs that deadline needs the deadline
00:16:59
and that's when he gets into his kind of
00:17:01
superpower mode you know the meeting
00:17:03
between the dress rehearsal and air but
00:17:05
if you think about it so the new show we
00:17:07
would be taping and he would yell cut
00:17:10
and then theyd start a sketch over and
00:17:13
sometimes these tapings would last for
00:17:15
five hours and you know perfectionist
00:17:18
and you can't stop fixing yeah yeah yeah
00:17:21
and I remember the audience trying to
00:17:23
leave in droves and Tom gamble coming
00:17:25
out and going like you quitters you know
00:17:28
sure
00:17:29
so they're watching the same sketch over
00:17:31
and over again well it's like a sitcom
00:17:33
you know you're you're trying to get it
00:17:34
right when you're on a movie and it's a
00:17:35
big budget that happens where you just
00:17:37
do take after take someone's got to go
00:17:39
hey are we any good like can we just
00:17:41
move on like this is it the best we can
00:17:43
do and then they'd be up all night in
00:17:46
the editing room like splicing the takes
00:17:48
together so that it leeched all of the
00:17:52
you know the magic out of it I mean you
00:17:54
guys know because you've done it the
00:17:55
live the adrenaline of live really adds
00:17:58
something but imagine these comedy
00:18:00
sketches pieced together they had to add
00:18:02
laugh tracks right so it's all different
00:18:05
I I remember I remember knowing that it
00:18:07
wasn't going well and then I guess
00:18:09
Brandon K tarov said to Lauren after I
00:18:13
can't remember maybe eight shows like
00:18:16
why don't you just not make the rest of
00:18:17
them and instead and here's the novel
00:18:20
idea let's make best of the new show
00:18:22
hours Best
00:18:24
of oh after only eight episodes we're
00:18:27
going to do best of
00:18:29
finished
00:18:34
[Music]
00:18:35
out by the way I don't know we have what
00:18:38
time we have how did you end up writing
00:18:40
this book I'm just that's popped in my
00:18:43
head you know I I I I was only that was
00:18:46
my only time in television I I switched
00:18:50
J I switched to journalism after that
00:18:53
but I stayed you know I stayed friends
00:18:54
with a all those writers and a lot of
00:18:56
them including Steve Martin and Jack and
00:18:58
you know have written for me at the New
00:19:00
Yorker and other places I've worked so I
00:19:02
was always kind of in the you know I
00:19:04
would see run into Lauren every five
00:19:05
years and say hi I think our daughters
00:19:08
knew each other in school and but
00:19:11
um after the 40th anniversary I I just
00:19:15
well I was an empty nester I had this
00:19:17
crazy idea I was going to have a lot of
00:19:18
time and I just realized it it really
00:19:21
hit me how Lauren is like
00:19:23
single-handedly responsible for what
00:19:25
America thinks is funny you know across
00:19:27
so many generations
00:19:29
and I I thought he'd be a great subject
00:19:31
for a book so I I did a I I sold I sold
00:19:35
a book first I I did a proposal there
00:19:37
was a bidding war I chose random house
00:19:40
and then I went to see him in his office
00:19:43
and I said because I I know you know you
00:19:46
guys know Lauren he likes to be out of
00:19:48
the frame he likes to be behind the
00:19:50
curtain he's he's not a very public
00:19:52
facing guy so I said Lauren I I I just
00:19:56
sold signed a contract to write a book
00:19:58
about you in the show I don't need
00:20:00
anything from you you know I know your
00:20:03
people and I'm kind of around but if you
00:20:06
wanted to talk to me and participate in
00:20:08
it it'll be a better and a richer book
00:20:10
and you know your legacy deserves that
00:20:13
and at first he looked like he was gonna
00:20:15
have a heart attack you know he just was
00:20:17
like yeah and then you know he said he
00:20:20
think about it and we had a drink a
00:20:23
couple of days later and and he just
00:20:25
started telling those stories he just
00:20:27
started talking and uh so he he was in
00:20:31
um we didn't have any kind of agreement
00:20:33
you know it's he liked the fact that it
00:20:36
was my book it's not a vanity project
00:20:38
that he had any approval over or
00:20:40
anything but you know he's smart enough
00:20:41
to know that that's better to have like
00:20:43
a real work of Journalism about you and
00:20:45
not some silly you know sort of puff
00:20:48
book he had always told me I I would
00:20:50
never write a book because I couldn't
00:20:53
tell the truth so in terms of like
00:20:57
you're writing this better and like what
00:20:59
do I include you Susan what do what do I
00:21:02
not include is this unflattering to
00:21:04
Lauren who I have affection for and I
00:21:05
think it's seminal um and though so when
00:21:09
he was sharing with you it was stories
00:21:11
that you
00:21:12
felt were benign I mean the book's
00:21:15
coming out uh did he bury people what
00:21:18
did he say about me sorry oh Dana you
00:21:21
know what he said about you is it's a
00:21:23
[ __ ] show Pony I mean
00:21:25
you both of you um both of you are
00:21:29
really really up there in his
00:21:32
Pantheon no I think that he uh I think
00:21:36
one of his reservations in the beginning
00:21:38
and this was very smart of him he knows
00:21:40
that people have very selective memory
00:21:42
you know I I don't know that he read
00:21:44
deeply in those like the oral history by
00:21:47
Tom shells and Jim Miller but he
00:21:49
certainly knew that over the years
00:21:51
people had put out versions of things
00:21:53
that were wildly exaggerated you know
00:21:55
and he also know that comedians like to
00:21:58
kind of embellish a story to make it f
00:22:00
right that's a a human thing so I think
00:22:03
he he was a little worried about that
00:22:06
but he he uh you know you know he I
00:22:08
asked him lots of questions he told me
00:22:10
lots of stories
00:22:12
uh I'd say in the final two years of the
00:22:15
reporting what I was doing was I'd go
00:22:17
over there on a Friday night and I'd say
00:22:19
okay now what we're going to do is try
00:22:21
to do some like factchecking because a
00:22:23
lot of times I'd have three or four
00:22:24
different versions of an event yeah and
00:22:27
I wanted him to try to be a TI Breer
00:22:29
like what do you think actually happened
00:22:30
here and you know he was very honest a
00:22:32
lot of times he just said God I don't
00:22:34
know it was the 70s you but I but again
00:22:38
because I you know work at the New
00:22:39
Yorker and we're factchecking and
00:22:41
accuracy are important I worked really
00:22:43
hard to try to get get it the things and
00:22:48
there were definitely things um and I
00:22:51
brought all these things to him there
00:22:53
were definitely things that maybe stung
00:22:56
a little bit or that he would have
00:22:58
preferred not be in the book but he
00:23:00
never said like oh God don't put that in
00:23:02
the book you know he he he understood
00:23:04
that yeah um and I God I really respect
00:23:07
the H hell out of him for that you know
00:23:09
I mean he knew I was going to write a
00:23:10
real book and but the response among you
00:23:15
know his world and his publicists and
00:23:17
the people around him has been really
00:23:19
has been really positive people think
00:23:21
that I've really got him but you know I
00:23:23
I mean going into something like this
00:23:25
with a character as mysterious and
00:23:28
feared as Lauren is I I always knew that
00:23:31
there would be a contention of people
00:23:33
who said like oh God this is just a
00:23:35
[ __ ] and then there would be other
00:23:37
people who would say this is a hatchet
00:23:38
job you know right so I think I mean I'm
00:23:44
I really I I I'm in awe of Lauren and I
00:23:47
really admire him and I admire and like
00:23:49
him even more at the end of this process
00:23:51
than I did at the beginning I I think
00:23:53
what he's done is incredible but you
00:23:56
guys work there when people would be
00:23:58
bitching about this or that or you know
00:24:00
it's a tough place right uh do you uh do
00:24:04
did you talk to any cast that said
00:24:07
anything that or are any any
00:24:08
personalities just very different than
00:24:10
what you thought once you get them on
00:24:12
the
00:24:12
phone huh let's see or is everyone kind
00:24:16
of that's a that's such a good question
00:24:18
did you hang up with someone and go wow
00:24:19
I they were very one person who blew my
00:24:21
mind uh was Dan akroy because he talks
00:24:25
in these yeah sentences have you guys
00:24:28
ever
00:24:28
we did a live podcast with him at
00:24:31
David's house you know what I mean like
00:24:33
he talks in perfect
00:24:35
paragraphs and he's so I just would
00:24:38
never have thought that he you know he's
00:24:39
somebody who and and he's so uh
00:24:43
thoughtful and uses such interesting
00:24:46
words um let's see who you know you know
00:24:49
they didn't they didn't know what to do
00:24:50
with the lumber back in Canada 194 he
00:24:53
has a lot of the steel the steel
00:24:56
manufacturer at all
00:24:58
yeah he is like this and and he made it
00:25:02
comedy rhythms he did it as Cone Heads
00:25:04
he
00:25:05
did talking it long free free
00:25:08
Consciousness kind of speeches so it's
00:25:11
it's part of his well it makes you
00:25:13
realize that you know beldar conad and
00:25:16
Van arroy are very similar aren't they
00:25:20
very parental units I told someone are
00:25:24
you with your parental units tonight and
00:25:26
then I said after I've said this a
00:25:28
million times I go you know that's from
00:25:29
Coen heads they're like what is that
00:25:32
term I go I think so isn't it remember
00:25:34
he goes parental and no one knew that I
00:25:37
go oh that's so funny it just gets in
00:25:38
The Ether and people you had some good
00:25:41
quotes here from uh a lot of the Stars I
00:25:44
think some are funny some are just
00:25:45
straight ahead interesting and I like
00:25:48
Steve Martin says Dave Letterman is
00:25:50
genuinely
00:25:51
self-deprecating he genuinely doesn't
00:25:53
think he's any good those issues don't
00:25:55
come up for Lauren
00:25:58
so and I mean go ahead oh Jane curtain
00:26:02
saying he spent a lot of time talking
00:26:04
about where he's going to
00:26:07
eat is that very Oro tonight at 9 o'
00:26:12
Chevy will be there Chevy Chase no no no
00:26:14
Chevy Wilson uh one of the
00:26:17
Pauls um you'll find with Susan she's
00:26:21
that thing of like you know she wants to
00:26:23
please and yet she has has an Eagle
00:26:26
Eye uh and she sees what others don't
00:26:30
Bill hater is funny Bill hater yeah bill
00:26:34
has a great Lauren you have different
00:26:35
you just a very much very he says Dana
00:26:38
um if you start drowning he's not like
00:26:40
hey here's a life jacket he's like oh
00:26:42
that guy's drowning in my pool let's go
00:26:44
here and let's go hang with Alec
00:26:48
Baldwin well you know it is what one of
00:26:51
the things that is so interesting about
00:26:53
Lauren is that uh even though people
00:26:56
would early in the show as the show
00:26:58
started getting successful and Lauren
00:27:00
started getting richer with fancier
00:27:02
friends you know people would [ __ ] and
00:27:03
moan about that you know Belushi
00:27:05
referred to Lauren fancy friends as the
00:27:07
dead you know all those socialites and
00:27:10
everything but I think that it was kind
00:27:12
of interesting the way Lauren managed to
00:27:14
Parlay that into kind of a comic
00:27:16
character on the show you know um like
00:27:20
the the Lauren that you see in the
00:27:21
smiggles TV fun hous T fun give me back
00:27:25
my show you know and
00:27:28
back with my show
00:27:30
yeah you know he kind of I feel like he
00:27:34
almost you know the L posha like
00:27:38
producer character became a character on
00:27:41
the show as much as like church lady did
00:27:43
you know the aloof producer that just
00:27:45
stands there with a beer or something or
00:27:47
a glass of wine yeah yeah and I remember
00:27:50
you know I actually I mean I hope we
00:27:53
hear more of your Lauren data today but
00:27:56
I remember asking Alec Baldwin at one
00:27:58
point who do you think does the best
00:28:00
Lauren
00:28:01
impersonation and Alec just said
00:28:05
Lauren all right telling telling
00:28:09
right um it's that thing of like I never
00:28:15
met anyone who talked like that you know
00:28:17
but I do believe that that's what I'm
00:28:19
kind of curious about and yeah so you
00:28:21
you went on this journey and it's not so
00:28:24
much just like what makes Lauren tick
00:28:26
but it's sort of like where's the
00:28:28
where's the marshmallow inside this this
00:28:31
veneer you know because I think he wants
00:28:33
to be one of the guys and he I think he
00:28:36
is very observant and wonders what
00:28:39
people are thinking of him and gets
00:28:41
easily wounded in a way but he's also so
00:28:45
resilient I mean he's
00:28:47
trumping yeah in just that way to which
00:28:51
I we probably talked about just keeping
00:28:53
the show
00:28:54
consistent Now 50 years we have data now
00:28:58
a [ __ ] half century where did this
00:29:01
guy come from who is he will that be
00:29:04
answered when I buy the book I think
00:29:07
you're GNA get your $38 worth but no
00:29:10
everyone I talk to about Lauren it's the
00:29:12
same they're all kind of trying to
00:29:14
Unriddle him you know Conan Conan says
00:29:17
everybody thinks that Lauren has the
00:29:19
secret you know part of that is that he
00:29:22
isn't like unlike a lot of guys who got
00:29:25
rich and famous in the 80s you know
00:29:26
Barry Diller Michael milking or people
00:29:28
like that yeah he's never been like a
00:29:31
showoff workaholic you know he he's not
00:29:33
one of those people who says I get up at
00:29:35
4:00 a.m. and work out with a trainer
00:29:37
and then I you know he he he does seem
00:29:40
to know how to live you know he is a he
00:29:43
kind of invented work life balance you
00:29:45
know but yeah but then in terms of you
00:29:48
say the marshmallow inside I don't want
00:29:50
to be too psycho babbly or you know too
00:29:54
much an easy answer but go ahead a lot
00:29:57
really does does take you back to Lauren
00:30:01
suddenly losing his father when he's 14
00:30:03
years old he was
00:30:05
completely at Sea and his father
00:30:08
collapsed one night after having a big
00:30:11
argument with Lauren oh had a big fight
00:30:14
father collapses disappears into the
00:30:16
hospital Lauren never sees him again
00:30:19
this gives you some indication of wine
00:30:22
you know you never see Lauren having a
00:30:24
yelling match with anybody you know he's
00:30:26
very he keeps it very
00:30:28
low you know he I I think at one point I
00:30:31
I say in the book that he speaks in the
00:30:33
register of a man announcing a golf
00:30:35
tournament you
00:30:37
know but he I think that his whole world
00:30:41
got smashed when he was 14 you know his
00:30:44
then he had a bad year his mother
00:30:46
thought he was going to be a juvenile
00:30:47
delinquent to use the term juvie popular
00:30:50
in the a Juvia and he had to kind of
00:30:55
rebuild he had to put it all together I
00:30:57
think it gave him a kind of resilience
00:31:00
uh that a kind of resilience that helped
00:31:03
him throughout his whole career you know
00:31:06
just when I was starting the book I
00:31:08
interviewed Jud Appel for the New Yorker
00:31:10
radio hour and he said something that
00:31:13
really resonated with me when Jud was 14
00:31:16
his parents had a really bad divorce and
00:31:20
I think he you know they there were
00:31:21
financial problems his whole world kind
00:31:23
of fell apart and he told me that he
00:31:27
definitely because because of that like
00:31:29
that's why he kind of early in his life
00:31:31
abandoned his dreams of being a
00:31:33
performer and instead became a director
00:31:35
and producer because you know when
00:31:38
you're that guy you you've got the
00:31:39
clipboard you got the call sheet you're
00:31:41
making sure that
00:31:43
everything works you're making sure that
00:31:45
it's not going to be chaos you're taking
00:31:47
care of everything as opposed to you
00:31:50
know if you're a performer you're just
00:31:51
kind of looking you're doing stading
00:31:53
your own stuff and and I thought that
00:31:55
that reminded me so much of Lauren you
00:31:58
know CU he also was a performer early in
00:32:00
his life but you know he is he's
00:32:03
determined to not let anything fall
00:32:05
apart because his own world fell apart
00:32:08
when he was 14 that'll be $350 for
00:32:12
that I always thought it was people who
00:32:14
started out in comedy and just saw that
00:32:17
it wasn't going to happen for them and
00:32:18
then they became a writer writer or
00:32:20
director producer I did not realize when
00:32:23
I was on Satur Night Live that every
00:32:25
single writer essentially wanted to be
00:32:27
in front of the camera
00:32:28
you know I didn't realize that um I
00:32:32
didn't know that until I started
00:32:33
reporting this book so every you know
00:32:35
think about all the people who were just
00:32:37
writers melany Odenkirk you know yeah
00:32:40
those guys never got on stage Robert SM
00:32:42
they all want to be they all want to
00:32:44
trust me Conan I love that kind of
00:32:46
Lauren you know well do you think
00:32:47
Michael will be here he's visit it's not
00:32:50
very far from you know the bleachers to
00:32:53
where the cameras are you know he he has
00:32:56
so many say
00:32:58
it's a little short walk yeah that's
00:33:01
funny yeah but when you do Lauren you
00:33:04
get to kind of inhabit Lauren and I do
00:33:07
think because the show is magnificent
00:33:09
chaos that's also part of his his
00:33:12
methodology is he he'll be the calm when
00:33:15
was anybody
00:33:17
angry H well yeah there's definitely
00:33:20
some people who are angry um because you
00:33:23
know it's one of the things I would say
00:33:25
that maybe Lauren's biggest achievement
00:33:27
was just creating this kind of culture
00:33:30
with walls around it you know it's a
00:33:31
tribe and you're in it or you're out of
00:33:33
it you know it's like the Godfather kind
00:33:36
of and you know they're of people
00:33:40
noes
00:33:41
yeah who you know I mean I think that's
00:33:44
one of the reasons it was so painful for
00:33:46
Conan when he lost the Tonight Show and
00:33:49
went to TBS he was he was kind of you
00:33:52
know he had spent his whole career at
00:33:53
NBC and I I and and for a while he had
00:33:57
you know a little bit of a of a frosty
00:33:59
rupture with Lauren I think you know he
00:34:01
was off the g off the t-shirt list you
00:34:04
know stopped getting the Broadway video
00:34:06
you guys still get those the Broadway
00:34:08
video t-shirts I don't know if I still
00:34:10
do I think
00:34:11
so yeah I do yeah Lauren he wants to be
00:34:16
in the loop I I I he did not produce the
00:34:18
Conan Tonight Show right for some reason
00:34:20
that's right he he produced late night
00:34:23
for Conan and then when Conan went to LA
00:34:26
NBC I mean it was kind of a drama
00:34:29
NBC told Conan and his producer Jeff
00:34:32
Ross oh you don't need Lauren to be your
00:34:33
EP you know but I think that was a
00:34:35
misstep I think I think it probably
00:34:38
would have been a good yeah I think in
00:34:40
the end of the day and this there's been
00:34:42
even current things that I will mention
00:34:44
with bit different people is just show
00:34:46
that's important to Lauren and maybe
00:34:48
it's the how he reacts to other people
00:34:50
in his life you you show respect um you
00:34:53
know you want to you want to give Lauren
00:34:55
the chance to say I think should do it
00:34:58
without me you know if you started with
00:35:00
him and he gave you your break then you
00:35:03
do kind of have that that feeling but
00:35:06
but it's a hard back and forth to say
00:35:07
Lauren do you want to produce this movie
00:35:09
because now you're putting him on the
00:35:10
spot sometimes if he doesn't but if you
00:35:14
don't and it's success he's like why
00:35:16
wouldn't you bring that to me it's very
00:35:19
it's very touchy because you don't want
00:35:20
to go I want a new fa I want a favor
00:35:22
from you also this thing about networks
00:35:25
is tough because Al you know let's say I
00:35:27
did a show for Network like I've done
00:35:30
sitcoms and they're they're always
00:35:32
whining and dining you for a sitcom the
00:35:35
whole run and the second it's over let's
00:35:37
say you do a pilot or something or they
00:35:39
even just they cancel your show there's
00:35:42
always part of you that thinks
00:35:44
mistakenly but this network we were
00:35:46
friends like how could they do that's
00:35:48
the weirdest thing that you realize it's
00:35:51
all just for the moment things are going
00:35:52
good everything's great but don't get
00:35:54
too chummy because you're just a you
00:35:58
know a card on a on a you know board
00:36:02
where they say we don't need that
00:36:03
anymore we're putting this here they
00:36:04
don't think like that they don't go oh
00:36:06
someone's feeling is going to get hurt
00:36:07
they're just like this does better than
00:36:09
that that we got to put that there it's
00:36:11
very hard it's very rare they go hey I
00:36:13
mean they might say it but they're not
00:36:15
just saying hey just because we're all
00:36:17
buds we should keep this on forever yeah
00:36:20
I think that for Lauren it's these it's
00:36:22
a relationship business you know and he
00:36:24
really does like one one of his old
00:36:27
Canadian friends uh told me that even
00:36:30
from the very beginning you could tell
00:36:31
he likes rabbit's feet you know he likes
00:36:33
to have these familiar people around and
00:36:37
um I think you know one time he he was
00:36:39
kind of half joking but he compared
00:36:41
himself to said I'm like Prometheus you
00:36:44
know I brought I brought I'm the bringer
00:36:45
of fire to these young people you know
00:36:48
the people he hires and whose life he
00:36:49
changes and he is aware that um you know
00:36:53
he's very aware that that you want to
00:36:56
stay tight with the people who were
00:36:58
there for you at the beginning sure you
00:37:00
know it's why he kept Bernie I'm sure
00:37:02
I'm sure he was paying Bernie brilin 15%
00:37:05
you know up to the very end when when
00:37:07
was the last thing Bernie did for La you
00:37:09
know even when it went to 10% he's
00:37:11
probably still paying him 15 whatever
00:37:13
yeah yeah I by the way Prometheus for
00:37:15
all the kids listening is a
00:37:18
rapper Lil Prometheus Yeah Lil
00:37:25
Prometheus by the way I I have off the
00:37:28
off the grid here the new show is it
00:37:30
possible you would remember this I think
00:37:33
this is a dumb joke from the new show A
00:37:36
Whitney Brown and Louie were they both
00:37:38
on it possibly I don't think they were
00:37:41
weren't
00:37:42
they but on
00:37:45
camera no they weren't on it they
00:37:47
weren't on the new show no they weren't
00:37:50
they weren't okay because it's jok is
00:37:51
from something else it could have been
00:37:53
but W they they were weren they on
00:37:54
Dana's
00:37:55
show uh Louis K I hired as my head
00:37:59
writer um no Whitney Brown was not right
00:38:03
for it I remember a sketch with Louie
00:38:06
Anderson and Whitney Brown but what
00:38:08
Whitney Brown it could have been on uh
00:38:12
on a on a Bad episode of SNL on a
00:38:15
figment of my imagination might have
00:38:17
been in the 85 season I think that's
00:38:19
when a Whitney got hired here's the joke
00:38:21
yeah okay they're in Ro it's like a just
00:38:24
quick cutaway like on laughing they walk
00:38:26
out in Roman toga
00:38:28
one's ripped and one isn't and Whitney
00:38:32
goes no Whit yeah Whitney goes to Louis
00:38:35
that's ripped and says Ides and he goes
00:38:39
humanties that's and that was that's
00:38:42
right out of that isn't that a weird
00:38:45
that's that's toppo jio right there I
00:38:50
too pretty I'm lying but why would I
00:38:53
even think of this when you talking on
00:38:54
the new show but you know that reminds
00:38:57
me of um uh when Lauren directed his
00:39:01
show in college UC see Foles which was
00:39:04
very much like a Proto SNL thing there
00:39:07
was a Shakespeare uh T parody in it that
00:39:10
Lauren wrote This is actually one of the
00:39:13
the first funny joke that I've ever that
00:39:15
Lauren Michaels wrote to to my mind
00:39:17
there was a character in it named handen
00:39:20
bra get it okay got it instead of Fort
00:39:23
and bra yeah hand and bra you get it it
00:39:25
I like it I got it pretty good
00:39:27
good a good that's the beginning middle
00:39:31
end it's very economic the 50s
00:39:35
people listen I laughed harder at heaw I
00:39:38
don't know what you know I I don't any
00:39:39
reference I laughed at Don Mar Bernie
00:39:41
Burstein told me they take your heha
00:39:43
money in London you know because he was
00:39:46
producing Hew he didn't like yeah I
00:39:48
don't like fake art he just thought the
00:39:51
art scene was ridiculous you it's funny
00:39:53
when people say like you know Belushi
00:39:55
only made $400 a week on SNL and he made
00:39:57
grand for Animal House which is not bad
00:39:59
money especially when you're an unknown
00:40:01
they forget that they weren't a huge
00:40:03
star in the cover of Time Magazine did
00:40:06
did Belushi get on the cover of Tom I
00:40:07
heard Chevy did did Belushi Belushi was
00:40:10
on Newsweek oh news Chevy for Animal
00:40:13
House and Chevy was on New York Magazine
00:40:16
at the end of uh season one they called
00:40:18
him the air apparent to Johnny Carson
00:40:21
and that's basically what started all
00:40:24
kinds of splintering in that first cast
00:40:26
because yeah you know the idea wasn't
00:40:28
for one person to emerge as a star that
00:40:30
kind of screwed everything up right
00:40:31
immediate problems that's always been
00:40:33
there since then yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:40:36
yeah you know you were talking about the
00:40:38
the asking about the new show I just
00:40:40
remembered one funny little conflict
00:40:42
that happened there I remember uh gambl
00:40:44
and pross wrote A Sketch called time
00:40:48
truck it was a time traveling truck and
00:40:51
it was for a show Kevin Klein Kevin
00:40:55
Klein was hosting and the idea was Kevin
00:40:58
Klein was supposed to play uh Abe
00:41:00
Lincoln and some they were supposed to
00:41:02
go back in time to prevent uh Lincoln
00:41:05
from getting shot but Lauren thought
00:41:07
that it would be much funnier to have
00:41:10
his close personal friend Paul Simon
00:41:14
Lincoln just as a psych right the
00:41:16
writers are like Paul Simon not a comic
00:41:20
actor yeah and he's very quiet Paul yeah
00:41:23
anyway yeah frustration reason number
00:41:26
800 why the new
00:41:29
fly off the
00:41:30
shelves did we um did we talk about uh
00:41:34
just well obvious you mentioned Lauren
00:41:36
hacked life I that's the new phrase like
00:41:39
you go to buttermilk and you ski at you
00:41:42
know and then you're in St Barts and you
00:41:43
go to Wimbledon and Paul and I would
00:41:45
often go out and just buy socks you go
00:41:48
downtown so and he did Pace himself
00:41:52
that's part of the half century is he
00:41:54
does Pace himself he knows when it's
00:41:56
important for him to lock in and that's
00:41:59
the especially this Saturday that 30
00:42:01
minutes is where everything's made and
00:42:04
the whole show is based on ADD and
00:42:05
procrastination so at Lauren's core does
00:42:08
he have both those elements because I do
00:42:11
yeah well you know Jim Downey had a
00:42:13
really smart way of describing this he
00:42:15
said Lauren is a guy bad at term papers
00:42:19
great at tests you know so if you give
00:42:22
him an open-ended thing that he has to
00:42:24
sit down and Fiddle with He's just never
00:42:26
going to finish it but when there's a
00:42:28
deadline when there's an alarm Bell that
00:42:30
goes off that's you know I think someone
00:42:33
said the deadline is Lauren's cocaine
00:42:35
you know it's it's the thing that gets
00:42:37
him galvanized I can you imagine if that
00:42:40
show was taped you would never have that
00:42:44
moment you know at 10:30 where he's
00:42:46
saying you know but um yeah I think that
00:42:51
he uh he definitely he definitely has
00:42:55
said to me a bunch of different times
00:42:56
that he
00:42:58
he was always his whole life reluctant
00:43:01
to burn a bridge or to close a door you
00:43:03
know he always felt like if I do this
00:43:04
then I won't ever be able to do this I
00:43:06
mean he's he and he also told me a story
00:43:09
this kind of related he told me it's a
00:43:11
real memory of once his father taking
00:43:14
him to a diner when he was a little boy
00:43:17
and saying just order anything you want
00:43:19
off the menu so he ordered a hot dog and
00:43:21
a hamburger and a grilled cheese and
00:43:23
onion rings and french fries and you
00:43:25
know couldn't eat it all and then
00:43:27
his father said let this be a lesson to
00:43:29
you you know your eyes are bigger than
00:43:31
your stomach now I don't know how Lauren
00:43:33
converted that into a lesson about
00:43:35
comedy but he did and and I think that
00:43:38
if you think about that plate full of
00:43:40
junk food at the diner it's not unlike
00:43:42
what the show is like Saturday going
00:43:44
into you know they still have way more
00:43:47
than they can use sure and it's chopping
00:43:51
it down and you don't need everything
00:43:52
you don't you think you don't need
00:43:54
everything you think you need in life
00:43:55
also is a bigger way
00:43:57
it's true right right right right I want
00:43:59
to
00:44:00
go lunch with his dad yeah I need to
00:44:04
learn things that's a good one buy me a
00:44:07
hot dog uh yeah we both have Dad stuff I
00:44:10
mean do all comedians have Mom or Dad
00:44:13
stuff right I don't know well I thought
00:44:16
it was you know a lot of people talk
00:44:18
about these different rules Lauren has
00:44:21
about comedy these Laur isms and I think
00:44:24
all the comedy ones are interesting but
00:44:26
it was also really interesting for me to
00:44:28
hear how many of them were just about
00:44:30
like how to live your life you know so
00:44:31
many people talked about how Lauren
00:44:33
would say buy yourself an apartment that
00:44:36
you think you can't afford because you
00:44:39
know then you'll come home after a hard
00:44:41
day work and you'll go wow who lives
00:44:43
here you wow I live here you know and he
00:44:47
told me that he said by he said get yeah
00:44:50
it it matters where you live so if
00:44:52
you're torn get the nicer one he does
00:44:55
his Laur and a lot of it is is just good
00:44:57
oldfashioned wisdom yeah well well
00:45:01
crafted did we talk about the one that
00:45:02
was sort of took me by surprise you know
00:45:04
about the this generation or whatever
00:45:07
snowflakes or anxiety whatever you know
00:45:09
we were raised in the wilderness and we
00:45:11
got like
00:45:12
civilized they're raised civilized and
00:45:15
then we want them to go out into the
00:45:16
Wilderness which is sort of brilliant I
00:45:19
said that Howard stering go what what
00:45:21
does that mean go out but no he said he
00:45:24
said that to me too and I totally get it
00:45:27
I like yeah yeah but you know it was
00:45:29
also I spent so much time hanging out
00:45:32
there that it was really interesting for
00:45:34
me to see he's so patient kind of with
00:45:38
the Millennials and some of the
00:45:41
snowflakey you know sensibilities but
00:45:44
one day he said something that really
00:45:46
cracked me up this is in the
00:45:48
book we were wa we were walking in the
00:45:50
Theater District and we walked past the
00:45:52
Mean Girls Marquee and he had just got
00:45:55
tickets for friend Margaret Trudeau to
00:45:59
go and but he was really mad because one
00:46:01
of the leads had called in sick uh
00:46:04
because she had to take her dog to the
00:46:05
vet the dog had eaten glue or something
00:46:07
and he and he and he just said if it was
00:46:10
Patty LuPone the dog would be
00:46:15
dead just couldn't believe you know that
00:46:18
this person's pet was I Ru in the new
00:46:21
days there's just options you didn't
00:46:23
have like you can just not do things
00:46:26
anymore in the old days it's like no you
00:46:28
go no matter what you go work you go to
00:46:30
school you do this and now it's like if
00:46:32
you feel like it if unless you want to
00:46:34
call in a day you're not mentally
00:46:36
feeling like it it's like or you have
00:46:38
anxiety if I had the word anxiety back
00:46:40
then I would have used it all day I
00:46:42
think Lauren has a a classic
00:46:44
characteristic of somebody who is uh has
00:46:48
power in a meeting and that is if things
00:46:51
are going around the room and then
00:46:53
Lauren will sort of sum up something or
00:46:57
say something that's not exactly on
00:46:58
topic but related to the topic in very
00:47:01
few words you know and it's like I just
00:47:04
think I you know I don't know this is a
00:47:06
hack name one but I it just needs to
00:47:08
breathe or whatever you know make sure
00:47:10
that the audience knows you're actually
00:47:12
performing you know sort of you know
00:47:14
don't just do it to each other so that's
00:47:17
kind of one of his superpowers and
00:47:18
that's really important with the suits
00:47:21
and Universal and stuff I I had I was at
00:47:24
parties with the the suits and Lauren he
00:47:27
doesn't talk a lot but when he does it's
00:47:29
usually it's pretty hard or it's
00:47:32
interesting you know yeah no he has a
00:47:34
lot of things like that that can kind of
00:47:36
close off discussion like he'll say
00:47:38
it'll get there yeah you know or he'll
00:47:41
say it knows what it is stuff like that
00:47:44
yeah yeah really good good things yeah
00:47:48
all I'm saying you know he never really
00:47:50
says do this all I'm saying is like do
00:47:53
we really have to go there with that
00:47:55
right now you know
00:47:57
I thought it was also interesting that
00:47:59
even though you know in that meeting
00:48:02
between dress and air he really is like
00:48:04
a general you know and that's that's the
00:48:06
time at which he famously yelled at Bob
00:48:08
Odenkirk once Odenkirk if you talk again
00:48:11
I'll break your [ __ ] legs you know
00:48:13
but
00:48:14
mostly that's when he's most
00:48:16
confrontational because there's no time
00:48:18
left no time for any fun [ __ ] it's
00:48:21
like go go go right but but um even even
00:48:25
though he is you know that is his moment
00:48:27
he rarely forces somebody to change
00:48:30
something I mean writers are always
00:48:32
telling me true yes he'll give you the
00:48:34
note he'll say maybe this maybe that but
00:48:36
he isn't GNA say you have to change the
00:48:38
ending you know he he lets it belong to
00:48:41
the writers which is so unusual some you
00:48:44
know some of mine got dirty and he would
00:48:46
say to interrupt you he would say I
00:48:49
don't know if you need that yeah yeah
00:48:52
put it if you want but I don't know if
00:48:53
you need it and that's a good way of
00:48:55
saying oh you feel like it's a little
00:48:57
dirty it's kind of smart the way it is I
00:49:00
don't if you need that and you go yeah
00:49:02
okay like okay well if you say it I'm
00:49:05
obviously younger and just new on the
00:49:07
show I think I would take your gut
00:49:10
feeling over mine I know because I said
00:49:12
to Lauren just in the fall when I was
00:49:14
there I said you're like an AI like you
00:49:16
have downloaded the show in your brain
00:49:19
that's a good so Lauren's blink is the
00:49:21
best blink because he can't
00:49:23
even he's he's he's going back to you
00:49:26
know Danny did that in my early days
00:49:29
similar to a Chevy idea you know say so
00:49:32
he that's why his blink is really good
00:49:34
he kind of knows he can't even toly
00:49:37
describe what's wrong in a way but his
00:49:39
spider sense because he's yeah yeah yeah
00:49:41
he's downloaded the show but he might
00:49:44
say as David was just saying he might
00:49:46
say well do you think it's working you
00:49:48
know yeah that's how he would do it do
00:49:50
you think it's working but Dana this is
00:49:52
reminding me what David just said is the
00:49:54
story you told me about the time he
00:49:56
thought church lady got too dirty with
00:49:59
the football players yeah yeah and he
00:50:01
was he was really kind of right it was
00:50:04
just um you know it was Joe
00:50:08
Montana and Walter pyton and I'm doing a
00:50:12
church chat and so it was just became
00:50:14
vailan sexual inuendo like we're playing
00:50:17
football squeeze the between your legs
00:50:19
and let me you know it was just a lot of
00:50:21
that and Lauren was like you know does
00:50:25
it really it was like
00:50:27
you know and he didn't want church lady
00:50:28
for a while like the church I think she
00:50:31
needs a name you know and stuff like
00:50:33
that and he didn't really like the
00:50:34
superior dance he wanted to be more
00:50:36
grounded in reality but like he never
00:50:38
told me yay or nay but he the the mon
00:50:42
Joe Montana won um because maybe it was
00:50:46
low brow or something it was later in
00:50:48
the show but it killed so hard that the
00:50:51
Oldtimer sound man said I've been here
00:50:53
for 20 years I I never seen the needles
00:50:56
go that high so
00:50:58
I anyway you know that Superior dance
00:51:02
thing I mean I didn't know he didn't
00:51:03
like that cuz boy I think that's so
00:51:05
funny but uh well I I I think he wasn't
00:51:09
a fan of it but maybe he probably
00:51:11
accepted it as the as the character grew
00:51:14
got bigger yes she became a signature
00:51:17
because I know Conan told me that uh or
00:51:20
maybe Lauren told me maybe they both
00:51:21
told me um rare instance of everybody
00:51:24
agreeing that Lauren was always telling
00:51:27
Conan to get rid of that string dance
00:51:29
thing that he did you know where he
00:51:30
would touch his nipples and
00:51:32
go yeah Warr hated that you but Conan
00:51:36
stuck with it and it worked you know
00:51:38
there are people yeah you know people I
00:51:40
guess well that is the thing about
00:51:41
catchphrases Andor repetitive physical
00:51:44
things or signature Johnny Carson does
00:51:46
the golf swing I don't know if there's
00:51:48
something homey to your brain you know
00:51:50
oh Conan's doing that again you know we
00:51:52
all do it right right well Mark McKinny
00:51:54
told me that at the original at the IAL
00:51:56
read through of the Kids in the Hall uh
00:52:00
series the one thing that Lauren just
00:52:02
didn't like didn't understand was the
00:52:04
I'm crushing your head guy oh and and
00:52:08
that when Mark you know that sketch yeah
00:52:10
yeah with the camera set up so it looks
00:52:12
like you're yeah play that game as a
00:52:14
little kid first read it Lauren said
00:52:18
like oh so it's a funny voice thing you
00:52:21
know but he didn't it wasn't you can say
00:52:23
that better than me but um but then when
00:52:25
he saw it when he saw saw that it was a
00:52:27
visual you know like that then he then
00:52:29
he got it and he liked it so again you
00:52:32
have to have you really have to have a
00:52:34
sense of yourself I guess right because
00:52:36
a a more of a fading Violet kind of
00:52:39
performer would have just said okay
00:52:40
we'll cut that sketch sure right and
00:52:43
Lauren is he's he's open to if it works
00:52:46
it works I mean he just loves a laugh so
00:52:49
if you know that that makes him so high
00:52:52
yeah you know and and you see that how
00:52:54
he still just suffers if the show's
00:52:57
going a little flat you see it in his
00:52:58
body language his attitude if the show
00:53:01
is lifted it's just you know from across
00:53:03
the way your sketch destroys be like you
00:53:07
know and and that's like a really good
00:53:09
coach that never over Praises but when
00:53:13
he does it means a hell of a lot so
00:53:15
that's yeah so many people told me about
00:53:18
how they would come off stage and just
00:53:20
feeling like they really killed and you
00:53:22
know then in the Monday
00:53:24
meeting he wouldn't talk about that
00:53:26
would say you know like no Nora you were
00:53:30
breathtaking as the fourth waitress you
00:53:32
know that kind of
00:53:34
thing I thought Jan's exit was
00:53:37
breathtaking
00:53:44
[Music]
00:53:45
exit well Susan um Dana anything else
00:53:48
for this young lady who's uh WR a
00:53:50
written great book so now your book is
00:53:53
emerging yeah within this GI gigantic
00:53:57
SNL 50th yeah whatever you want
00:54:01
Extravaganza you know and I can't keep
00:54:03
track of all the documentaries people I
00:54:05
I don't you know were you in that one
00:54:06
you got watch the cowbell one is great
00:54:08
we got to watch that it's a I just went
00:54:10
to a little house they rented for me and
00:54:12
said well you talk about cowbell I okay
00:54:14
so I'm doing it and then they were
00:54:15
talking about it yeah I don't even
00:54:18
remember what I said but it's such an
00:54:22
extravaganza um and then your book's
00:54:24
coming out I guess that's a good thing
00:54:26
rather then if the book had come out
00:54:27
during just a regular year Well I it
00:54:30
took me so long to write it that only 10
00:54:32
years this wasn't part of the plan yeah
00:54:35
I thought come out years fell into right
00:54:37
now is good it really yeah it really
00:54:40
worked and I'd say I mean uh it it
00:54:44
definitely works and especially because
00:54:45
so much of the hoopla so much of the
00:54:47
other stuff you know it's like Snippets
00:54:49
of sketches and but my hope is that you
00:54:51
know people really don't know that much
00:54:54
about Lauren you know the the comedy
00:54:56
cogn Senti know that he's Obi-Wan Kenobi
00:54:59
and everything else but I think that the
00:55:01
greater world doesn't know how
00:55:04
complicated and fascinating and strange
00:55:07
and Brilliant he is and um I you know I
00:55:10
hope as you were saying Dan I hope I'm
00:55:12
kind of able to explain that a little
00:55:13
bit so the one thing people ask me today
00:55:17
about the show that I don't have an
00:55:18
answer for just a basic answer I guess
00:55:21
but how the numerologically the cast has
00:55:26
started to expand and then become an
00:55:28
expansionist cast so like 20 cast
00:55:31
members so people will ask me why they
00:55:34
have all those cast members and I go
00:55:37
well I guess a safety net or what did
00:55:39
did he did he ever talk about that I
00:55:40
think that's a really good question
00:55:42
because I know there was a time in the
00:55:43
90s when the when he was trying to do
00:55:46
the change over like between the you
00:55:48
know Hartman cast to the Sandler cast he
00:55:51
was hiring a lot of people I thought it
00:55:52
was maybe just to ease the you know
00:55:55
create a buffer um and then there was
00:55:57
like some big budget cut back and he had
00:55:59
to get rid of a bunch of them but yeah I
00:56:02
I don't know the answer to that unless
00:56:04
and I'm speculating here unless it's in
00:56:07
a diversity effort you know to just try
00:56:09
to get a more diverse cast but I don't
00:56:12
think it serves the show because I think
00:56:14
that there's so many people you're kind
00:56:15
of who's that one I remember for sure
00:56:17
you don't know for sure it's too hard
00:56:20
people it's very hard I talked to some
00:56:22
of the young cast members because if
00:56:24
you're not in it a lot and then you get
00:56:25
in there there and then you maybe flub a
00:56:29
line or don't totally score then you go
00:56:30
back again where I think I was part of
00:56:33
the last small cast and then when David
00:56:36
and Sandler and Farley all you know we
00:56:38
got some really great people to add to
00:56:40
us and some left but me and Phil and
00:56:43
John I think were just the three major
00:56:45
male sketch players so I was in four
00:56:47
things the first show or five things and
00:56:49
yeah I I have a lot of empathy for the
00:56:52
cast members that are they're in the
00:56:54
Dugout they're on the bench they're not
00:56:56
playing quit or do you stay and you go I
00:56:58
quit SNL I didn't get anything out of it
00:56:59
like it's so hard just sit there and rot
00:57:02
going am I going to ever score it really
00:57:03
takes one good sketch then you're on the
00:57:07
map what was yours David what was the
00:57:09
thing that made you feel like God it
00:57:10
took a long time I think it was one
00:57:12
where I played a receptionist was the
00:57:13
first time I got any any sort of and you
00:57:16
had a catchphrase did it at at it was in
00:57:19
dress the last sketch in the air it was
00:57:21
the first sketch and so oh that's that's
00:57:24
a good you are
00:57:27
you are so good just a dry bit based on
00:57:29
kind of Lauren going to see and and and
00:57:32
the assistance yeah yeah and all that
00:57:33
you know the thing the thing about the
00:57:35
huge cast that's even harder now Dana
00:57:39
and and when I was hanging around there
00:57:41
a few years back you know the cast would
00:57:45
also they would let you know I mean of
00:57:47
course it's thrilling for them when
00:57:49
Geniuses like you and you know Alec and
00:57:52
everybody come in to pay play these
00:57:54
cameos but during the first Trump
00:57:56
Administration you it's so many you know
00:57:59
you have all these stars coming in yeah
00:58:01
and that also squeezes Matt Damon and so
00:58:04
forth all great people doing great
00:58:06
Parts if you were in the cast you might
00:58:09
be pissed of course well I did ask and I
00:58:12
was I was sincere about it when they
00:58:14
asked me to do Biden I said does Mikey
00:58:16
still want to do it does anybody want to
00:58:19
do it and I you know and they said no
00:58:22
because Biden was sort of a thankless
00:58:24
task it was a difficult one and there
00:58:26
was the whole energy around should you
00:58:28
make fun of his mental acuity or not and
00:58:31
and threading that needle so I was
00:58:33
totally aware of that and um they're all
00:58:37
incredibly sweet they seem sweeter than
00:58:40
we were but they're very nice people but
00:58:43
we never we had Dan akroy come in and do
00:58:46
Bob Dole that was it once yeah yeah and
00:58:48
then it was all us playing it so I don't
00:58:51
know I I mean Lauren has his thing I
00:58:53
don't think he likes when people leave I
00:58:56
think when blushi and aoid left it kind
00:58:58
of left him flat-footed and so he he
00:59:01
liks a I get it he liks a bench that can
00:59:04
come in and you know so right 50 years
00:59:07
now a final question okay how much
00:59:10
longer since you've been inside this
00:59:12
Lauren
00:59:14
brain will he
00:59:16
go well I firmly believe I don't think
00:59:20
he's gonna just say over and out you
00:59:22
know he's never missed a show he's never
00:59:24
missed the show I think I think I think
00:59:27
they'd have to carry him out of there in
00:59:28
a Stretcher but I don't think that any
00:59:31
any of um I don't I don't buy any of the
00:59:34
replacement theories I don't think Tina
00:59:36
or Seth or I I can't see any of them
00:59:39
doing it um what I think is the likelier
00:59:42
idea and I I hope this doesn't sound too
00:59:44
McKenzie you know but the way I see it
00:59:48
Lauren is completely essential two days
00:59:50
of the week he has to be there during
00:59:52
read through because he really pays
00:59:54
attention to the room yeah and and then
00:59:56
he you know picks the show after that
00:59:58
with his depuy's help and then Saturday
01:00:01
when he's sitting there under the
01:00:02
bleachers um it's a good theory you know
01:00:05
and you know so I think he has this
01:00:07
great team of people who could do the
01:00:09
other stuff and if he came in you know
01:00:12
was wheeled in on Wednesday afternoon
01:00:15
and on Friday and on Saturday evening
01:00:17
stretcher well there's an element
01:00:19
there's a there's like a soft element of
01:00:21
that now you know I would want an answer
01:00:26
you know when Lauren gets here it's
01:00:27
four: Lauren knows how to Pace himself
01:00:30
and when to lock in so he's doing a soft
01:00:33
version of that you know yeah I think
01:00:35
that's right and and all those people
01:00:38
you know Doyle and and henard and
01:00:41
Higgins they really know him you know so
01:00:42
they can give a pretty good
01:00:44
approximation yeah when he'll come in
01:00:47
what he might say yeah but you know
01:00:49
there's no there's no one could do what
01:00:53
he does under the bleachers I mean when
01:00:55
I'm sitting there under the bleachers
01:00:56
with him and you guys I'm sure you've
01:00:58
done this right and he's I mean the
01:01:01
funniest one when we got I was there for
01:01:03
the Jonah Hill show and Maggie Rogers
01:01:06
who was then just starting out as a
01:01:08
singer comes out on stage at dress
01:01:11
wearing this big red calf tan and no
01:01:14
shoes and lawen just goes Barefoot
01:01:18
where's she from a place with roads you
01:01:21
know he was so
01:01:23
mad I know well the the funniest one is
01:01:27
just that he watched the dress show and
01:01:30
the chardonay should be more pale you
01:01:32
know stuff like that it's like but he
01:01:34
notices things you're not even aware but
01:01:36
yeah I think he's G to go a while um he
01:01:40
seems very you know he's very with it
01:01:43
and alert and and I've never seen him
01:01:45
sick you know he he's taking good care
01:01:47
of himself true you don't hear that I
01:01:49
never I never it doesn't look like even
01:01:51
I was there briefly it doesn't seem like
01:01:54
he's you know barely getting to this
01:01:57
50th it's like 50th then they got the
01:01:59
rest of the season after the Big Show
01:02:02
and then uh they start working on next
01:02:04
season I don't see I don't know when
01:02:05
this podcast airs but I I bet you Lauren
01:02:08
he is he's only human I mean he will be
01:02:11
kind of a little bit relieved when this
01:02:13
whole hoopla over because we can't
01:02:15
unless it was the mic drop the show ends
01:02:17
he knows that pretty soon okay we look
01:02:20
have 10 more [ __ ] shows to do well
01:02:23
one thing he did tell me when the wman
01:02:25
moov came out um you know that was sort
01:02:28
of the beginning of you know like his
01:02:31
anonymity being blown in a way I mean he
01:02:34
he told me he didn't see it I mean who
01:02:35
knows who knows if he did I said I saw I
01:02:37
saw it for you and you come off great I
01:02:39
so I said you don't have to see it but
01:02:41
he said uh he said I just feel like I've
01:02:44
lost control of my life you know it's
01:02:46
like he it it as as a 50th approach I
01:02:49
think he's really excited about the show
01:02:50
and he's excited about seeing everybody
01:02:52
you know he loves everybody but he he
01:02:55
does feel I mean even to some extent
01:02:56
with a book it's just like he's he's
01:02:59
kind of stepping out you know the wman
01:03:01
movie put him Center Stage this book
01:03:04
puts him Center Stage it's it's it's
01:03:06
it's a it's a shift for him right and in
01:03:09
the end of the day he he is the Lynch
01:03:11
pin he's bigger than any cast member as
01:03:13
far as the history of SNL he is sure you
01:03:16
know well he is as as I think I quote
01:03:19
some agent in the book saying that when
01:03:21
her she is clients going to audition for
01:03:24
Lauren she says you got to remember
01:03:25
remember he is the star of the show it's
01:03:28
Lauren yeah you know which is
01:03:32
interesting interesting but he loves
01:03:34
funny people and he yeah he really does
01:03:37
he does and and and he's funny he's a
01:03:39
funny person which a lot of people don't
01:03:40
extremely dry droll wit yeah that hits
01:03:44
you pretty hard sometimes um wow well uh
01:03:48
congratulations it's hard to write a
01:03:50
book and I I'm sure it's going to do
01:03:52
really well and um what was your advance
01:03:55
how much did you got so
01:03:58
far hello February
01:04:01
18th thank you so
01:04:03
much really fun you guys this flew by it
01:04:06
was easy we love talking about our old
01:04:08
boss call back anytime okay I can't wait
01:04:10
to read my chapter all right bye thanks
01:04:14
have a good day bye bye you too bye bye
01:04:17
this has been a presentation of Odyssey
01:04:20
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01:04:22
review all the stuff smash that button
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whatever it is wherever you get your
01:04:26
podcast fly on the wall is executive
01:04:28
produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade
01:04:30
Jenna Weiss Burman of Odyssey and
01:04:32
Heather Santoro the show's lead producer
01:04:34
is Greg Holtzman