00:00:06
Victoria Vanstone, welcome to my
00:00:07
podcast. Hi, thanks so much for having
00:00:09
me on. This is Victoria Van Stone from
00:00:11
the Soyber Awkward Podcast in Australia.
00:00:14
Also, um recently an author, 1,000
00:00:16
Wasted Sundays. Yeah. And and an
00:00:18
international sex machine. Oh, yeah.
00:00:20
Apparently, I'm not sure my husband
00:00:22
would like it if you called me that. How
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are you? You good? Yeah, I'm good. Good.
00:00:26
We had a bit of a dodgy flight coming
00:00:27
into Oakland this morning which added to
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the excitement. There were lots of
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delays, but we're really pleased to be
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here. It's very cold compared to the
00:00:34
tropics where I've come from, but we're
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excited to be here. Yeah. Where are you
00:00:38
in like northern Queensland? Yeah.
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Sunshine Coast. No, just up from
00:00:40
Brisbane. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful up
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there. Yeah. It's lovely. I mean, it's
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hot. It's 25 degrees there when I left.
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So, yeah, this is very different. There
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was hail storms and rain as we arrived,
00:00:49
so we were like, it was like being back
00:00:51
in blighty, quite honestly. Yeah. It's a
00:00:53
[ __ ] of a day for you to land. And
00:00:54
you were telling me um the plane had to
00:00:56
like had like four attempts at landing.
00:00:58
Yeah. It's a bit scary. Actually, the
00:00:59
girl next to me was vomiting. So that
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was nice. Nice. Welcome to welcome to uh
00:01:04
New Zealand. Although although you know,
00:01:06
let's not be too judgmental. You've done
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a fair bit of vomiting in your life. I
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have done a lot of vomiting. That is
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fair to say. Yeah, we'll get into that.
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Hey, first of all, congratulations. Um
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recently you you were named best
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well-being podcast at the Australian
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Podcast Awards. Yeah, it was incredible.
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We couldn't believe it when our name was
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called out, quite honestly. What a
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treat. We went down to Sydney for the
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event and it was just wonderful to be
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involved and meet some fantastic other
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podcasters because often in this game as
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you'd know it's quite isolating like you
00:01:34
go into your studio, you record, you
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occasionally meet other people, but you
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never really know that what you're
00:01:39
saying has impact. So it was lovely to
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meet some people who listen to the
00:01:42
podcast and also all the people that
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make podcasts. It was a fabulous night.
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Yeah, it's it's a huge honor as well, I
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think, for a for a small sort of
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independent, you know, done in your done
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in your home studio podcast to um get
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that acknowledgement. What does um so
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you you say there's like an award
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ceremony. What does like an awards
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ceremony night like that look like for
00:02:01
you guys now? How do you how do you
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celebrate? Well, yeah, it's difficult.
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We went out for cake afterwards.
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Everyone was absolutely plastered at the
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do because it was free booze. Of course
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it was. So, we just afterwards watched
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trays of sparkling wine and champagne
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just kind of skim underneath our noses,
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which was very annoying because they
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were bringing us like massive kind of
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pint glasses of apple juice, like
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child's drinks, and we were like, "Oh
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god." Then, as the night deteriorated,
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everyone got a bit close and a bit
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smitty. So, we left and found a hotel
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and had a bit of chocolate cakey. That's
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how we celebrate nowadays. It's It's a
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funny thing, isn't it? Do you what's
00:02:41
your relationship like with um alcohol-f
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free drinks? Yeah, I'll have one. Yeah.
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It's not a sustainable business. I think
00:02:47
the alcohol-f free industry just because
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you only have one. Of course, alcoholism
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alcohol companies are designed for you
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to want more. Yeah. So, it's different.
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Yeah. Whenever I'm doing um I do love my
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wines. I love um I love penonis. But I
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um I I did uh Dry July last year and
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then I listened to a podcast with Andrew
00:03:04
Hubman. Yes. And since then, I've um I
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have re-evaluated my relationship with
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alcohol and I do keep a close eye on it.
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Great. I'm if I'm being completely
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honest, I'm probably still in that phase
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now where
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I'm trying to coexist with it and before
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I'll eventually get to the point where I
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give up and go, "No, I just can't be
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trusted." Wow. It's fascinating.
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Everybody has their own very very
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intricate relationship with alcohol. I
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find everybody's got a story. Well, some
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some people seem to just not be not even
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sort of think about it. It's not really
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a thing. Yeah. Who Who are these people?
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I never met them in the dodgy nightclub
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that I was passed out on the floor in. I
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can tell you that there are these weird
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unicorn people who have never even
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touched a drop. I always say when I do
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meet them, like you are incredible
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because the power that it takes
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throughout your life, especially at the
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ages of 13 and 14. What an incredible
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superpower to have to say no at that
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age. I always find it fascinating when
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people have never drunk. I I feel like
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it's probably easier now than what it's
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ever been a to say no. and definitely
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and have people accept your choice.
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Yeah, everything's changing. It does
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feel like we're on the crest of a wave
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with this. People are starting to change
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their attitudes. You're not getting
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hassled every time you go out. You're
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not getting, you know, tapped on the
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shoulder and someone saying, "Come on,
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mate. Just have one." It doesn't happen
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that often. People respect choice
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because we're so aware of the impact on
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mental health. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
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we'll get into that with you because um
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Yeah. had a massive impact on your
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mental health, didn't it? Anxiety and
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stuff. Yeah. First of all, what does the
00:04:33
term um sober awkward mean to you and
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how did you how did you come up with
00:04:36
that name? Yeah. So, when you first get
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sober, which hopefully you'll find out
00:04:40
one day, it's very very awkward because
00:04:44
people know you as this one person, this
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party animal, this reliable social, you
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know, soul and then you become someone
00:04:52
else and somebody that you're happy
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with, but perhaps other people aren't.
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And that can be really, really
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confronting for people. So going into
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social life again is really really
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awkward. I often refer to it as there
00:05:05
suddenly being a bright light like these
00:05:06
lights that are on us here. You go into
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a pub for the first time ever without
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your crutch and you feel totally
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overexposed. You feel like you can see
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and hear everything for the first time
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and it's like this bright light is
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shining on everything that comes out of
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your mouth and every move you make and
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it is really really uncomfortable. So me
00:05:27
and my friend Lucy, who I started the
00:05:28
podcast with, we were like, what what
00:05:30
should we call this? How does it really
00:05:32
feel to get sober? And we weren't going
00:05:34
to be all airy fairy about it and be
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like, look, this is going to be the
00:05:37
easiest thing in the world because it's
00:05:38
actually not. It is not an easy choice
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to make. And it is extremely difficult
00:05:43
to continue the same sort of social life
00:05:45
that you've had before, which makes it
00:05:48
very awkward to be like, oh yeah, it's
00:05:49
got to be sober awkward. Yeah, I love
00:05:51
it. And it works so well. If you if you
00:05:53
to do like a pie diagram of who who your
00:05:56
listeners are, who who who would they
00:05:57
be? Like how many how many drinkers are
00:05:59
there? How many sober curious people are
00:06:01
there? How many reformed drinkers are
00:06:03
there? Our biggest download day is New
00:06:05
Year's Day. So that day, it's definitely
00:06:07
the drinkers because they're hung over.
00:06:09
They're hung over in bed going, "Why am
00:06:11
I doing this again? I feel like I never
00:06:13
want to drink again. And where do I
00:06:14
start?" But generally, it's women. I
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would say 70% women in their 40s,
00:06:19
especially women who have just had
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children. And and with Hamish coming on
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board, that has opened up a whole new
00:06:27
area of men to look at their drinking
00:06:29
habits. Hamish has come on board a year
00:06:32
or two years ago now as somebody who
00:06:34
never had a problem with alcohol. So
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he's opened this massive funnel saying,
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"Look, I'm giving up alcohol. I didn't
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have an issue with it, yet I know that
00:06:42
it's bad for me, and this is what's
00:06:44
going to happen." So we've tracked his
00:06:45
journey along with mine to say, "Look,
00:06:47
you can still give up drinking without a
00:06:49
problem." That's kind of our message is
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that it doesn't have to get to these
00:06:53
lows or actually these massive highs for
00:06:56
you to be able to quit.
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Yeah. He he's he's very funny, isn't he?
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He's a new dimension. He's not as funny
00:07:03
as me. No, of course not. Sounds a bit
00:07:04
like Stewie from Family Guy, have you?
00:07:06
Oh, yeah, he does a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
00:07:08
so I I listened to the latest episode
00:07:10
which was called Time. Oh, yes. On my
00:07:12
run this morning. Like how what's the um
00:07:14
what's the preparation procedure? So you
00:07:16
come up with like a general theme of
00:07:18
each. We try to keep it related to
00:07:21
booze, but sometimes you go we go off
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track. You know, we talk about the
00:07:24
impact that alcohol has on domestic
00:07:26
violence and we talk about dopamine hits
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and we talk about mental health and all
00:07:30
sorts of things that affect us in our
00:07:32
daily sober lives. Time was a massive
00:07:35
one because we have lost so much time
00:07:37
throughout our lives and we gain so much
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time when we become sober and we have to
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fill that space where booze used to
00:07:43
reside. So Hamish writes one a week, I
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write one a week, and we take turns in
00:07:48
coming up with topics. Yeah. You going
00:07:50
to obviously you want to, you know, keep
00:07:52
it going because it's an incredibly
00:07:53
successful podcast. Are you going to
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Will you ever run out of themes or
00:07:57
things to talk about? We did wonder
00:07:58
that, but we always seem to find
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something. I've got my little notes in
00:08:02
my phone just I always every day come up
00:08:04
with a topic and we've had a few guests
00:08:06
on. We weren't doing that originally,
00:08:08
but we had Fat Boy Slim as our first
00:08:09
guest and we've had some incredible
00:08:11
guests over the last year. So that makes
00:08:13
it a lot easier when you're having
00:08:14
someone else's story in there, but
00:08:16
generally it's just me and Hamish
00:08:17
waffling on about sober life. Amazing.
00:08:20
Yeah. Your fit wim Norman Cook, what
00:08:22
what's his what's his journey? What's
00:08:23
his 14 years sober? That was an old mate
00:08:26
of mine really. I wasn't I wouldn't say
00:08:28
I was friends with him, but I used to go
00:08:30
to where he DJed in Brighton at the Big
00:08:32
Beat Boutique every Friday night. And
00:08:35
that was a real sort of full circle
00:08:37
moment having him as our first guest on
00:08:38
the podcast. We've still got a few mates
00:08:40
in common. And I think that's how this
00:08:42
rolls really, isn't it? It's who you
00:08:43
know. So I nudged a few old mates in
00:08:46
Brighton and managed to get him on. We
00:08:47
went to his gig um in Brisbane and
00:08:50
interviewed him before the show and it
00:08:52
was so good. We were literally like
00:08:54
gurning in the audience. Like it was
00:08:56
just the most fantastic night. And we
00:08:58
kind of stompy danced away for the
00:09:00
evening and then went and met him
00:09:02
afterwards. He was absolutely lovely.
00:09:03
Lovely bloke. Did he Did he Did he
00:09:05
praise you like he should? Yeah, he did
00:09:06
praise me like he should have done. Oh
00:09:09
god, that's low hanging fruit. I'm so
00:09:10
sorry. That's good. That's what we like.
00:09:12
So, so um 20-year-old uh Vic who who
00:09:15
I've read about in your book, what would
00:09:16
she make of this version of you? Would
00:09:18
she think you're you're a boring old
00:09:21
probably? Yeah, she would think I'm very
00:09:24
boring, but I think she wouldn't even
00:09:26
know who it was. It's a completely
00:09:28
different person. I feel like I've had
00:09:29
two lives, which is why I'm very happy
00:09:32
to talk about everything because it's
00:09:34
easy for me to divide these two people.
00:09:36
I can look back and go, well, that
00:09:38
person was somebody who was quite unwell
00:09:40
and now I'm somebody that's not. So, it
00:09:42
makes it a lot easier for me to discuss
00:09:44
everything that I've been through
00:09:45
because I see the damage and what was
00:09:47
going on. It's very clear that I wasn't
00:09:50
happy and that I was trying to be and I
00:09:52
was didn't know. I didn't have any tools
00:09:54
back then. Whereas now, I've got the
00:09:55
tools to continue on kind of an upward
00:09:57
trajectory. Yeah. And what would you
00:10:00
like to go back and tell 20-year-old
00:10:02
Vic? Not that she'd listen. and she'd
00:10:04
probably tell you to [ __ ] off. But I
00:10:06
would just like to tell her that being
00:10:08
her is okay. Like being you is enough
00:10:11
because I forgot somewhere along the
00:10:14
line that I mattered and that how I
00:10:15
felt. I became such a people pleaser
00:10:17
throughout my life that I sort of
00:10:19
abandoned my own personality to be the
00:10:22
entertainer for everybody else. I think
00:10:23
it's a very common thing to do in your
00:10:26
social life is to change a little bit to
00:10:27
appease the opinions of others. And I
00:10:30
definitely did that probably a lot more
00:10:32
than anyone else. So I would tell her
00:10:33
just, you know, be yourself. Calm the
00:10:36
[ __ ] down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She
00:10:38
did sound like a fun girl. She was
00:10:40
pretty fun. That's the problem though.
00:10:43
Everyone else was guaranteed a night
00:10:45
out, like a brilliant laugh and a story
00:10:47
at the pub the next day. But for me, I
00:10:50
kind of laughed along with it. Whereas
00:10:52
in fact, I should have, you know, bear
00:10:54
witness to those red flags that were
00:10:56
whipping me across the face all my life.
00:10:59
Yeah. going to say some of the some of
00:11:00
the stuff in your book you for a for a
00:11:03
girl in her 20s or even early 30s it's
00:11:05
kind of fun and it's uh you know good
00:11:08
souvenirs and you know memories um but
00:11:11
if you're still that person in your 40s
00:11:12
or 50s it's it's just [ __ ] sad. Yeah.
00:11:15
It's not a good look. Yeah. No, it's
00:11:16
tragic. Yeah. But I guess sometimes with
00:11:19
booze especially it's such an acceptable
00:11:21
culture that we just go along with it.
00:11:23
And my personality, my whole identity
00:11:26
revol revolved around me being this
00:11:28
party animal. So I never looked outside
00:11:30
it. I didn't have reason to until I had
00:11:33
kids. Yeah. Were you an alcoholic? I you
00:11:36
know what? It's very difficult question.
00:11:39
I guess people who have been in recovery
00:11:41
for a long time would say anyone that
00:11:43
has a problem um and has struggled with
00:11:46
their intake of alcohol is an alcoholic.
00:11:49
But for me, I don't want to label
00:11:51
myself. I feel like you can call me what
00:11:53
you want. Honestly, I don't really care.
00:11:55
But I was somebody who had mental health
00:11:59
issues, I think, and I was somebody that
00:12:00
was drowning out my problems. I prefer
00:12:03
to be called sober. I think the word
00:12:06
alcoholic and even the word anonymous,
00:12:08
even though AA does work, I do find
00:12:11
those terms a little bit archaic now
00:12:14
because I don't have any shame about my
00:12:16
behavior. It was booze doing what booze
00:12:18
did. So being alcoholic or anonymous, it
00:12:21
conjures up the wrong image of who I am.
00:12:23
I wasn't passed out. I was going to say
00:12:25
I wasn't passed out in my own vomit, but
00:12:26
actually I was quite often most
00:12:29
occasions. I was probably an alcoholic,
00:12:33
but I think it conjures up the wrong
00:12:35
image of actually who I was and who I
00:12:37
am. It's not as simple as that. It's not
00:12:39
as simple as saying you are this and you
00:12:41
are that and that puts you in the box.
00:12:42
There was so much more to it than just
00:12:44
that word. Yeah. Also, I think part of
00:12:47
the um I don't know, I'm I'm probably
00:12:49
speaking out of a hole in my ass here,
00:12:51
but I think part of the problem with the
00:12:52
term alcoholic is if if you say to
00:12:53
anyone, "Oh, I think I've got a drinking
00:12:54
problem." Yeah. The first thing they'll
00:12:56
say likely is like, "Well, you know, you
00:12:58
don't have you don't have the shakes in
00:12:59
the morning. You you're not you're not
00:13:02
hiding wine in a coffee cup." You know,
00:13:04
there's this this sort of um absolute
00:13:06
ground zero level of what an alcoholic
00:13:08
looks like. Totally. Someone sleeping on
00:13:10
the street. So, anything beyond that is
00:13:12
considered almost acceptable. Which is
00:13:14
exactly why people don't reach out for
00:13:16
professional support because they don't
00:13:18
feel worthy of help because they're
00:13:19
well, well, I'm not Jack down the pub
00:13:21
who has 15 pints of Stella on a Friday
00:13:23
night. I'm not passed out on the park
00:13:25
bench with a bottle of Jack Daniels
00:13:26
clenched to my chest. I'm just a normal
00:13:28
drinker. And I consider myself really I
00:13:31
was a normal drinker. The people that I
00:13:33
surrounded myself were doing that I
00:13:35
surrounded myself with were doing
00:13:37
exactly the same thing. So, how do you
00:13:39
look out of a problem if it's
00:13:41
everywhere? It was kind of, you know,
00:13:44
absorbed into the people I surrounded
00:13:46
myself with and I I drowned it out. I
00:13:49
drowned it out with my environments and
00:13:51
it was almost clever because no one
00:13:53
picked me out of the crowd and said,
00:13:54
"Oi, mate, you've got a problem." Yeah.
00:13:56
Yeah. So, March 10, 2018,
00:14:00
how did that day look? That was a long
00:14:01
term long time coming that day. I would
00:14:04
say
00:14:06
like a couple of decades. Yeah. about 25
00:14:09
years I would say. Why are we so slow at
00:14:11
learning? Eh, wow. We are slow at
00:14:13
learning. I do. That is my biggest
00:14:15
regret is how slow I was at coming
00:14:17
around to the fact that perhaps drinking
00:14:19
wasn't good for me. Well, was was part
00:14:21
of it as well that you had a good time
00:14:22
and it was just starting to get boring
00:14:24
like it wasn't fun anymore or No, it
00:14:25
definitely wasn't fun anymore. And I
00:14:28
started to get a little bit of anxiety
00:14:29
which I had had from my recreational
00:14:31
drug use in the early ' 90s. I had had
00:14:34
an ecstasy overdose and then it started
00:14:37
to creep back into my hangovers after
00:14:39
having my first child. It sounds
00:14:41
terrible, but I was continuing to binge
00:14:43
drink at the weekends with my new
00:14:45
mother's group after having my first
00:14:47
child. And I was having repercussions, a
00:14:49
consequence to my drinking for the first
00:14:51
time ever, which was a crying newborn in
00:14:53
my arms. There's nothing more impactful
00:14:55
from that. But of course, I didn't stop
00:14:57
because I couldn't look outside of it. I
00:14:59
wasn't drinking every day. I probably
00:15:01
drank once a week perhaps, but always to
00:15:04
a to a toxic level, I would say. Always
00:15:07
kind of running to the toilet to vomit
00:15:08
the next day and really the drunkest
00:15:10
person at any kind of nightclub or bar
00:15:13
or wake or whatever it was. I had to
00:15:16
address it after having my second child
00:15:19
when I was near near to that date that
00:15:21
you mentioned. I had a baby. I had
00:15:23
another nine months of sobriety, like
00:15:25
this beautiful window into another life
00:15:27
where I didn't have to make excuses for
00:15:29
not drinking. And I was trying to do
00:15:32
better. I thought, I've got to do better
00:15:33
than this. And I went out 6 weeks after
00:15:36
she was born. The mundaneity of becoming
00:15:39
a new mom. You know, I've been traveling
00:15:40
the world for years. And suddenly I was
00:15:42
in a bloody apartment with beige
00:15:44
wallpaper doing the washing every day,
00:15:46
which is real. You know, that's a
00:15:48
massive transformation from who I once
00:15:51
was. I was bored out of my brain. Quite
00:15:53
honestly, motherhood can be boring as
00:15:54
[ __ ] sometimes. And yeah, I went out and
00:15:58
got massively pissed after the 6 weeks
00:16:00
after she was born and woke up in the
00:16:02
morning with another massive hangover
00:16:05
and this awful fear monster sort of
00:16:08
tapping me on the shoulder saying, "I'm
00:16:10
still here. I'm not going away. You need
00:16:12
to do something about this." So, my
00:16:14
anxiety ended up being the reason why I
00:16:16
quit drinking. I'm really always
00:16:18
thankful to my anxiety because it was
00:16:20
really my body screaming out for help.
00:16:24
And I walked into the lounge that day
00:16:26
and said to my husband, "I can't do this
00:16:28
anymore. I'm failing at moderation. I
00:16:30
can't stop drinking and I want to. I go
00:16:33
out and have one and I end up drinking
00:16:35
the bar dry. There is something wrong
00:16:37
with me and I need somebody else to step
00:16:39
in." H how did you know how did you know
00:16:42
that time would be the last time? Cuz
00:16:44
I'm sure you had many last time. I
00:16:45
didn't I didn't. I walked No, I walked
00:16:47
into a therapist and I said, "I want to
00:16:48
know a better way of drinking so that I
00:16:50
don't get hung over." Yeah. She was
00:16:53
like, "Oh, not sure." I was thinking
00:16:56
through the book here. Sorry. Yeah. I
00:16:58
thought she was going to say like, you
00:17:00
know, beer, you know, water between
00:17:01
beers or fish on a Friday or come up
00:17:04
with some really good way that I could
00:17:05
just carry on being the only person I
00:17:07
knew because the other option was just
00:17:09
too confronting. Yeah. So, so you
00:17:12
decided you were going to give up and
00:17:13
then um straight to a therapist.
00:17:15
Straight to a therapist that day. Didn't
00:17:17
try anything else. 20 like apps or
00:17:19
podcasts or Ellen Car's book or No, I
00:17:23
just I needed to speak to someone. I I'd
00:17:26
been to an AA meeting. My sister Louise
00:17:28
is 26 years sober and she took me to an
00:17:31
AA meeting many many years ago and even
00:17:33
at that point I didn't still feel that
00:17:35
my problem was bad enough that I would
00:17:37
stand up in front of a room full of
00:17:39
people and go, "Hi, my name's Vic and
00:17:40
I'm an alcoholic." I wasn't ready for
00:17:42
that. I just felt like this sort of
00:17:43
twatty binge drinker and I didn't feel
00:17:46
like I was bad enough to deserve that
00:17:48
level of support in a room. And I
00:17:50
remember going to that AA meeting when I
00:17:51
was 25 and just thinking this isn't for
00:17:54
me because I was obviously still in my
00:17:56
romance of booze in back in that day.
00:17:58
And I remember just thinking I hope no
00:17:59
one slags off my best mate. I hope no
00:18:02
one says anything horrible about
00:18:04
alcohol. I think I was out the door
00:18:05
having a cigarette pretty quick when it
00:18:07
got serious. And when I looked back, I
00:18:10
thought, what am I going to do? That
00:18:12
wasn't for me then either. I didn't feel
00:18:15
I thought I still wanted to drink quite
00:18:17
honestly. So, there was no way I was
00:18:18
going to stand up in front of a group of
00:18:20
people at an AA meeting and and confess
00:18:22
to my problem. I just wasn't ready.
00:18:24
Well, I suppose it's like what we were
00:18:26
talking about before about the lowest
00:18:27
that, you know, the rock bottomist of
00:18:29
alcoholics. It's the same thing with um
00:18:31
AI. If there's someone there that says,
00:18:32
"Oh, you crashed my car, lost my
00:18:34
license, lost my job, lost my family."
00:18:36
Suddenly you're like, "Well, I'm not I'm
00:18:37
not that bad. Gary. Yeah. I think the
00:18:40
uncomfortable feeling that I had at that
00:18:41
AA meeting, it wasn't because I didn't
00:18:44
resonate with what they said. It was
00:18:46
because I did and I wasn't I was in my
00:18:49
prime, my booze prime. I just wasn't
00:18:52
ready to address the issue. It was too
00:18:54
much. So, I think that's why I shied
00:18:55
away from it back then. What What were
00:18:57
some of the things that were said that
00:18:58
like cut you to the bone? Oh, it was
00:19:00
just cuz it it wasn't so much what they
00:19:01
said. It was that everybody in there was
00:19:04
so warm and and so normal. It was like a
00:19:07
parents committee meeting. I was
00:19:09
expecting, you know, dogs on strings and
00:19:11
like everyone looking a bit rough and
00:19:13
having a rolly out the front. I was
00:19:15
like, "Oh my god, this is like going
00:19:16
into an accountant's office. Everybody
00:19:19
was smartly dressed and they were all so
00:19:22
normal, which of course alcohol, it
00:19:24
doesn't differentiate. Everybody is
00:19:27
prone to overdrink." So that's what
00:19:30
surprised me. I think that's what was
00:19:31
confronting. So, so then the um therapy
00:19:34
that you started um how how many
00:19:36
sessions? How long did you stick with
00:19:37
that? I did 12 sessions in the end. That
00:19:39
was it. 12 weeks of kind of unraveling
00:19:42
the reasons why I drank. Yeah. And what
00:19:44
did you learn? I learned that I had
00:19:47
trauma, which I'd always brushed under
00:19:48
the carpet. I never even considered that
00:19:51
I had any trauma throughout my life. But
00:19:54
once in therapy, it's like a a pack of
00:19:57
cards. like she kind of spread my life
00:20:00
out before me and asked me to pick out
00:20:02
the bits that I wanted and the cards
00:20:03
that I didn't like. And I could see
00:20:05
there were times in my life where things
00:20:07
had changed. There were transitional
00:20:09
moments where I was sad and I hadn't
00:20:13
really clocked into them because I was
00:20:16
probably scared and I thought it was
00:20:17
just easier to go, oh well that
00:20:18
happened. Things like that happened to
00:20:20
everybody and that's okay. And they
00:20:22
weren't massive things. That's one thing
00:20:23
I learned in in therapy was that, you
00:20:25
know, trauma is very relative. And I
00:20:28
had, you know, some friends at school
00:20:30
that never spoke to me again. And from
00:20:32
that day on, I became a real people
00:20:33
pleaser, which meant I not only wanted
00:20:36
to make new friends, I wanted to keep
00:20:39
them. And my biggest fear in my life was
00:20:41
to lose people. So therefore, I had to
00:20:44
keep entertaining them to the point
00:20:46
where they stayed with me. And it was
00:20:48
really clear that there was a turning
00:20:49
point when I was about 14 where I sort
00:20:53
of didn't care about myself anymore. M
00:20:55
so the therapy thing was real beneficial
00:20:57
for you hugely. I wouldn't be sober
00:20:59
without doing that. Definitely not. No.
00:21:01
How can you say that? Just because I
00:21:03
didn't have the tools. I didn't have I
00:21:05
hadn't done the work. We call it the
00:21:06
work on the podcast. You have to do some
00:21:08
work to understand and unravel the
00:21:11
reason why you overdrink. And there is
00:21:13
always a reason. People think it might
00:21:15
be social pressure or because they like
00:21:17
it or because of all these other
00:21:18
reasons, but I think there is more to it
00:21:20
than that. There is a void that is being
00:21:22
filled where you don't think your
00:21:24
authentic self is enough. And that's
00:21:26
definitely how I felt. Yeah. And how was
00:21:28
the reaction in those early months with
00:21:31
from your friends and stuff? I didn't
00:21:32
tell anybody. You just didn't leave the
00:21:34
house. I didn't leave the house for
00:21:36
once. Instead of blurting everything
00:21:40
about me to everybody, which is what I
00:21:41
generally do in my life, I thought this
00:21:44
is too important. I'm actually going to
00:21:46
keep this within my family. So, I've got
00:21:47
three kids. my they didn't know they
00:21:49
were too young and my husband and
00:21:51
actually I went out and held on to an
00:21:53
alcohol beer for 18 months like it was
00:21:56
sort of my lifeline back to who I was
00:21:58
and I never ever took a sip. I was still
00:22:01
too scared. I was still too awkward. I
00:22:03
didn't want to go out into this world
00:22:05
and shock everyone by not being the
00:22:07
person that they thought I was. So I
00:22:09
actually I don't recommend doing that
00:22:10
because you know you really isolate
00:22:12
yourself which was a silly thing to do
00:22:14
but I just couldn't face the world
00:22:16
without my you know my best buddy booze
00:22:19
and how so your husband does he still
00:22:21
drink has he not no he's given up really
00:22:23
like in solidarity or I think so well I
00:22:26
never asked him to because I don't
00:22:28
believe you can tell people to stop
00:22:29
drinking I believe you have to leave by
00:22:31
example if you want to be a real cycle
00:22:33
breaker here and I think he's just fed
00:22:35
off me waffling on about it quite
00:22:36
honestly
00:22:40
Yeah. Well, was he much of a drinker
00:22:41
anyway or I would say he wasn't a
00:22:43
problem drinker whereas I was. I mean,
00:22:45
we knew each other from uni days many,
00:22:47
many years ago and we were massive
00:22:49
boozers then, but I think he's one of
00:22:50
those people that always had a level of
00:22:52
control. Yeah. Whereas I didn't. Um, and
00:22:56
how long after giving up did you decide
00:22:57
to lean into it publicly? I mean, you've
00:22:59
got a [ __ ] book now. You've got a
00:23:00
very successful podcast. Um, when did
00:23:03
you decide to do that? I needed the
00:23:05
accountability. I think really Yeah. I
00:23:07
think it's I've always been a bit of an
00:23:09
oversharer and I always when I sat down
00:23:12
to write that book, it was literally on
00:23:13
the day I gave up drinking, March the
00:23:15
10th,
00:23:16
2018. And I sat down in a room and I
00:23:19
felt like I wasn't an extreme boozer. I
00:23:22
wasn't perhaps an alcoholic. I'm someone
00:23:24
that got stuck between the pub and an AA
00:23:26
meeting, which is where a lot of people
00:23:28
fall through the cracks because of that
00:23:29
reason. They don't feel worthy of
00:23:31
reaching out because it's not that bad.
00:23:34
And I thought, well, if someone is
00:23:36
feeling like I did, then, you know,
00:23:39
there is someone out there who's going
00:23:40
to resonate with what I have to say. So,
00:23:43
I sat down that day and thought, I'm
00:23:44
going to write this story. I'm going to
00:23:45
write this story of me giving up a very
00:23:47
normal drinking habit, a socially
00:23:49
acceptable binge drinking habit, and see
00:23:51
if it resonates with anyone. It turns
00:23:53
out like I've made a career out of
00:23:55
talking about my pissed-up stories,
00:23:56
which is quite it's quite good at cuz I
00:23:59
don't know anything else. There's some
00:24:01
quite good yarns. We will we'll we'll
00:24:03
get to that shortly. Um yeah, the book's
00:24:05
quite recent, eh? Yes, it came out in
00:24:07
the end of February. How is it like um
00:24:10
yeah, you had like terrible like
00:24:11
postrinking anxiety towards the end of
00:24:13
your drinking career. Did you have like
00:24:16
um book anxiety when that first came
00:24:18
out? Like there's some there's a lot of
00:24:19
very confrontational stuff in there.
00:24:21
There so is. And also you are a writer
00:24:23
too. Yeah. So you know how that goes. It
00:24:25
is quite exciting. You get so excited
00:24:27
about the whole process and then when it
00:24:29
actually happens, it's kind of like a
00:24:31
weird dream world, isn't it? Cuz I
00:24:33
realize it's a bit like the podcast. You
00:24:35
put this stuff out there, but you never
00:24:37
really know whether people like it or
00:24:39
people listening or people reading it.
00:24:41
So, it's been lovely to get some good
00:24:44
reviews. I'm trying not to read them,
00:24:46
but when there's a good one, I'll read
00:24:48
it. Someone will send me a good one, I'm
00:24:49
like, "Okay, I'll read that." But yeah,
00:24:50
I don't get stuck into the bad ones.
00:24:52
Yeah. It must feel like in a way um like
00:24:54
sort of standing naked in a room where
00:24:56
everyone you know I've done that so many
00:24:58
times.
00:24:59
Yeah. Like it's just you just you're
00:25:01
leaving nothing nothing off the page. Um
00:25:04
how do you think your life would look
00:25:05
now? Um say how many years is it? Five
00:25:08
years. Six years. Six years. Six and a
00:25:09
half years sober. If you if you didn't
00:25:11
change anything, how would your life
00:25:12
look now? I just think I would be sort
00:25:15
of lost up sat at a bar in Thailand. I
00:25:17
lived in Thailand for many years. I
00:25:19
think my mental health may have
00:25:21
deteriorated so much to the point where
00:25:22
I might not be here quite honestly.
00:25:24
That's how it felt. That's how unwell
00:25:26
alcohol made me. It made me feel like I
00:25:29
couldn't control my thoughts anymore.
00:25:31
That's what my anxiety was. I felt like
00:25:33
I was going to die. The next day after
00:25:35
drinking, it seems like such an extreme
00:25:38
thing to go out for a pint and everyone
00:25:40
be like, "Oh, isn't this fun? Yay." And
00:25:42
then for me in the bed in bed the next
00:25:44
day, I literally felt like I was dying.
00:25:46
I would sit with my fingers on my pulse
00:25:48
thinking that my heart was almost going
00:25:50
to explode out of my chest. That was
00:25:52
that's how I reacted to booze. And it's
00:25:54
crazy to think that I wouldn't have
00:25:57
survived that, I don't think, if I
00:25:59
hadn't stopped. So, I'm lucky that that
00:26:01
happened to me. You What do you think
00:26:03
that would have eventually killed you or
00:26:04
you think suicide or I think I would
00:26:06
have not survived it in some way. I
00:26:08
think I may have killed myself. I don't
00:26:09
know. I'd never had suicide ideiation
00:26:11
while I was alive when that was
00:26:14
happening. But I do think I couldn't
00:26:16
have coped with that level of mental
00:26:20
breakdown for a long time. Definitely
00:26:23
not. Was so um I don't know if this is a
00:26:26
thing in Australia or the UK, but here
00:26:28
that's often called anxiety. Yeah,
00:26:30
anxiety. Is that a thing? Yeah. Um was
00:26:32
anxiety just something that sort of
00:26:33
crept into your into your life towards
00:26:36
the end of your drinking career or was
00:26:38
it always there? I think I'd always had
00:26:39
it to a certain level. I definitely
00:26:42
suffered with hangovers more than
00:26:43
everybody else. Probably because I was
00:26:44
drinking more and I was kind of smoking
00:26:46
cigarettes as well probably. It's
00:26:49
something that just got worse, much
00:26:51
worse after having children because of
00:26:53
course I used to wake up not knowing
00:26:55
what I'd done. You know, I'd be in a
00:26:57
blackout. I call it the fear of the
00:26:58
unknown. And that's a frightening place
00:27:00
to be. Like checking my body, seeing if
00:27:03
I'm okay, knowing that I'd probably
00:27:05
abandon myself, you know, abandoned my
00:27:06
body the night before. It was quite
00:27:08
frightening to wake up not knowing what
00:27:10
I'd done and to know that I possibly had
00:27:14
to work the next day as well. So, I'm
00:27:15
not only dealing with the anxiety in the
00:27:17
moment, I'm dealing with with not being
00:27:19
able to remember the night before and
00:27:21
having to function in the week that
00:27:24
comes after the hangover. So, there's
00:27:26
just so much going on there. It was so
00:27:28
much trauma and stress just from one
00:27:32
night out. Yeah. M. And it seems like
00:27:34
you were um you're quite a big um like
00:27:37
um hangover hangover vomiter, like a
00:27:39
morning vomiter, but you're also an
00:27:41
evening vomiter or I was a massive
00:27:42
evening vomiter. You're vomiting all
00:27:44
over the place. Just cuz I think I was
00:27:46
poisoning myself and then I'd go I'd go
00:27:48
and do like take one for the team. I'll
00:27:50
go and be sick and I'll I'll get back on
00:27:52
it. Oh, a tactical. We call that a
00:27:53
tactical. Tactical. Yes, I was a I was a
00:27:56
good tactical vom. I'm not proud of it.
00:27:59
That's what I mean. I'm happy to tell
00:28:00
you that cuz it's like what was that
00:28:02
person doing? Like she was completely
00:28:04
off her nut. Yeah. Well, it seems like
00:28:07
you're in a really good place now. Yeah.
00:28:08
It's bloody great. I saw um an interview
00:28:10
maybe on Diary of a CEO with um Steo.
00:28:13
You know Steo from Jack? Love him. Yeah.
00:28:15
And um he's had um massive massive
00:28:18
issues over the years with um alcohol
00:28:20
and drugs. And he had a really good way
00:28:21
of putting it. I've never heard it
00:28:23
framed this way before, but he said any
00:28:25
any disease you have like say cancer or
00:28:28
whatever. All you want is to get back to
00:28:30
your old self again. And he said alcohol
00:28:32
and drugs, it's the only disease in the
00:28:34
world where once you knock it on the
00:28:36
head, your life is going to be better
00:28:37
than what it was beforehand. Yeah. And
00:28:39
it can sound quite preachy when you're
00:28:42
talking about sobriety, but it's only
00:28:44
because people who really give it a go
00:28:47
experience so many benefits. Like it's
00:28:49
so life-changing in every aspect. It can
00:28:52
be confronting like cuz you have to
00:28:54
probably not go out as much. And I made
00:28:56
a choice very early on to swap my nights
00:28:59
for days and to fulfill my social needs
00:29:02
at breakfast or lunch or maybe an early
00:29:04
dinner and to have my evenings with my
00:29:06
family. Little changes like that made
00:29:09
massive impact on my mental health
00:29:11
because I could look forward to stuff
00:29:13
for the first time. When I was a massive
00:29:15
drinker, I had become so anxious to the
00:29:18
point where I dreaded going out. I knew
00:29:20
I had to, but I also knew that I wasn't
00:29:23
going to be able to control my drink and
00:29:24
would be the drunkest person in the
00:29:25
room, which led to anxiety. So,
00:29:28
basically, I didn't trust myself around
00:29:30
alcohol, which is very, very weird to
00:29:32
say that you can't trust yourself. And
00:29:34
that's something that sobriety, the most
00:29:36
wonderful gift is that I trust myself
00:29:38
now. And I I feel sad for that person
00:29:41
that didn't trust herself. It is it is
00:29:43
quite a heartbreaking thought to think
00:29:46
that I didn't have my own back. Yeah.
00:29:49
Yeah, it is. That's really sad.
00:29:51
Um, did you have to lose any of your
00:29:53
friends or are you lucky enough to be in
00:29:54
an age and stage of life where you know,
00:29:57
you know, you know, I'm trying to think
00:29:59
back to my 20ies. I had the same group
00:30:00
of maybe eight or nine guys and we do
00:30:02
the same thing every Thursday, Friday,
00:30:03
Saturday night. When you get a bit
00:30:05
older, it's a bit different, isn't it?
00:30:06
Life's a bit different. Yeah. I suppose
00:30:07
when you've got kids, like you're so
00:30:09
busy and doing all the kids stuff that
00:30:12
you don't notice your social life sort
00:30:13
of being flushed down the toilet as
00:30:15
much. But definitely some people have
00:30:17
fallen by the wayside since I got sober,
00:30:20
which I'm cuz cuz also now I don't
00:30:22
really care what people think about me,
00:30:24
which is another wonderful side effect.
00:30:26
Like if you if you don't want to be my
00:30:28
mate anymore, brilliant. It means that I
00:30:30
don't have the hassle of trying to stay
00:30:32
in contact with you or you know I don't
00:30:34
mind it if people don't like me who I am
00:30:37
now and preferred that person that was
00:30:39
really really unwell when that kind of
00:30:41
shows their colors really.
00:30:44
Well, it means you sort of being used as
00:30:46
um like a foil for their entertainment
00:30:48
really. Yeah, 100%. Um, did that did you
00:30:51
reach that point of not giving a [ __ ]
00:30:52
about what people care about you through
00:30:54
do you think that was through the the
00:30:55
therapy or the sobriety or is it just
00:30:57
the whole Yeah, the whole package. I
00:31:00
think it's all of it. And I think it
00:31:01
takes time. Like the first few years of
00:31:04
sobriety, you're sort of white knuckling
00:31:06
it, just trying not to drink and, you
00:31:07
know, listening to the podcasts and
00:31:09
reading the books and trying to work out
00:31:10
what life's going to be like. And then I
00:31:12
think a few years in, it sounds super
00:31:15
woowoo and cheesy, which isn't me at
00:31:17
all, but you start on this pass the
00:31:21
bucket journey of the
00:31:23
self, which I never knew. I thought
00:31:25
giving up drinking was just about giving
00:31:27
up drinking, not taking a sip out of a
00:31:29
bottle or whatever. It's not about that
00:31:31
at all. It's actually about me becoming
00:31:33
who I always was, learning who I was
00:31:36
before alcohol came along, and liking
00:31:38
who comes after it. So, it's all Yeah.
00:31:40
is about self- loveve. Well, you you use
00:31:42
the term white knuckling, but you you
00:31:44
kind of have been white like you had
00:31:46
those periods of nine months during your
00:31:48
your pregnancy where you you went
00:31:49
without a drink just fine. It seems like
00:31:51
you could have week nights without it.
00:31:52
You How were you white knuckling? I
00:31:55
would say I was white knuckling because
00:31:58
I was learning so much about myself. Not
00:32:01
so much I was desperate for a drink. I
00:32:03
would say I was just trying to get on
00:32:05
with this sober thing and trying to get
00:32:07
through and have three kids and trying
00:32:09
to learn what a craving was and how to
00:32:11
get over it. It wasn't maybe so much
00:32:13
white knuckling. That does sound a bit
00:32:15
extreme, but I was just navigating and
00:32:18
finding it difficult in the first year,
00:32:21
I would say, trying to work out what
00:32:23
this was all about and was it possibly
00:32:25
for me even like could I do this? Um,
00:32:27
but also I will say very early on, I
00:32:31
think the day after I finished um,
00:32:33
therapy in a lot of people come out of
00:32:35
there and go, "Oh my gosh, this is going
00:32:36
to be awful." But my drinking and my
00:32:38
mental health had deteriorated so much
00:32:40
that actually the day I decided I didn't
00:32:42
ever have to drink again was
00:32:45
like what a relief. It was like the best
00:32:48
feeling in the world. So yeah, white
00:32:50
knuckling might be a bit of a strong
00:32:51
term, but definitely the first year is
00:32:54
more difficult than the following five.
00:32:56
Yeah. Right. Right. And when how long
00:32:59
was it before you
00:33:00
just stopped thinking about it since it
00:33:03
became like a non-issue in your life? I
00:33:05
think after probably 2 years it becomes
00:33:08
easier to to be with it. Easier. Two
00:33:13
years. I know. I know. It's a long time.
00:33:16
It's a massive process. I mean, you've
00:33:18
been someone I was someone else for 30
00:33:21
40 years of my life. So, I'm 47 now. So
00:33:25
40 years my brain is so wired to go,
00:33:28
"Oh, I'm tired. Oh, I'm angry. Oh, I
00:33:30
feel like [ __ ] Drink, drink, drink."
00:33:32
Any emotion. It was celebrations,
00:33:35
commiserations, anything that was
00:33:37
happening in my life, that was the
00:33:39
answer. So to recalibrate my brain and
00:33:42
to rewire it, all that neuroplasticity
00:33:44
or whatever it's called, I had to squish
00:33:46
it into shape. And that was really,
00:33:48
really hard. And that's why people
00:33:50
relapse because it is hard. It takes
00:33:53
time and it takes effort and it takes
00:33:55
all sorts of different tools like
00:33:57
podcasts and going for walks every day
00:34:00
and having your sober mates and all of
00:34:02
this other stuff. It's like this massive
00:34:04
package which can feel like a lot for
00:34:06
anyone to take on. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:34:09
Let's talk about this book of yours.
00:34:10
Yes. Um so there was an Instagram post
00:34:13
in May. Uh was it a cute photo of your
00:34:15
dad? Oh yeah. Uh the caption was
00:34:19
probably a huge mistake. I'm letting my
00:34:21
86 year old dad read my book. I wrote
00:34:24
skip on the pill popping chapter and
00:34:27
international sex machine. Oh, your face
00:34:29
public. International Sex Machine. I'm
00:34:32
not sure if he will speak to me again.
00:34:34
My last words were, "Don't judge me. I
00:34:36
was pissed." Um, so I got the book on
00:34:39
audible uh cuz I knew you were coming
00:34:40
in. I didn't have a time to order it.
00:34:43
Um, what was the um pill popping
00:34:45
chapter? I couldn't Oh, that was my
00:34:47
ecstasy days. Yeah, there's all sorts of
00:34:49
different There was a cult. There's a
00:34:50
tsunami as well. The pill popping
00:34:53
chapter was my overdose. I was somebody
00:34:56
that wanted to take it to the next level
00:34:58
with drugs as well, of course, cuz I
00:35:00
just wanted to be in oblivion most of
00:35:02
the time. And just wanted to wanted to
00:35:05
feel good, but you didn't realize you
00:35:06
were feeling bad and hiding something.
00:35:08
100%. I think you are I think you hit
00:35:10
the nail on the head. I didn't know that
00:35:11
I was doing that because I was feeling
00:35:13
sad. I was feeling very very sad about
00:35:15
the loss of friendships and all this
00:35:17
other stuff that had gone on. So, I
00:35:19
didn't know that I was filling that
00:35:20
void. So, I just went harder and faster
00:35:22
than anybody else. So, you know, I would
00:35:25
buy a pack of tennies rather than just
00:35:27
taking a half like my mates were doing.
00:35:30
And I had a drug overdose and I just
00:35:32
didn't feel like my dad needed to hear
00:35:34
about that. He's heard a lot. You know,
00:35:36
he had to pick me up when I got arrested
00:35:38
for drink driving, which is like one of
00:35:39
my biggest regrets of my life. But so he
00:35:42
knows, but I think now at 86, there's
00:35:45
some things that he just doesn't need to
00:35:47
know, especially about his daughter's
00:35:49
sex life. You know, me sleeping with a
00:35:51
Romanian guy who had wooden teeth is
00:35:53
something that my dad just doesn't need
00:35:55
in his brain. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, that
00:35:58
is um that is the first chapter I
00:36:00
skipped to, the international sex
00:36:01
machine one. Excellent. Yeah. Okay. Um
00:36:04
the these are just some of the bizarre
00:36:06
encounters from the book. The French guy
00:36:08
who licked your face. Elaborate. Oh,
00:36:10
yes. There was a beautiful Frenchman in
00:36:12
Bangkok one night. Yeah. Who who greeted
00:36:14
me by licking my face. I was like, "Oh,
00:36:16
he's nice. I'll spend a night with him."
00:36:18
But that was it. People didn't have to
00:36:20
do too much to make me interest. As long
00:36:22
as they liked me, I would reciprocate.
00:36:25
Because I had low selfworth. All you had
00:36:27
to do was do something slightly quirky
00:36:29
or peculiar and I'd be like, "Oh, he's
00:36:31
nice. I'll go out with him for a year."
00:36:34
So, yeah. So, you think now with the
00:36:36
benefit of hindsight and therapy and
00:36:37
deep work that Yeah. You you just wanted
00:36:40
sort of validation in a way. Really?
00:36:42
Absolutely. I really It's a love story.
00:36:44
I was looking for love everywhere in
00:36:46
most ports. Seems like you were finding
00:36:48
it. I didn't find it in very shortterm
00:36:51
ways. Yeah. Yeah. Um Oh, the guy that
00:36:53
called you Christina. Oh god. He was
00:36:55
madly in love with me. He was my
00:36:57
boyfriend for 5 years and he turned
00:36:59
around to me once and said, "Yes, I love
00:37:00
you, Christina." I said, "I'm Vic. I've
00:37:02
been going out with you for three
00:37:04
years."
00:37:05
Really? No, you're That's a joke. No,
00:37:07
no. I did find out he had a Swedish
00:37:09
girlfriend. He was a Thai guy and he had
00:37:10
a Swedish girl called Christina sending
00:37:12
him money every week which I didn't know
00:37:13
about. Oh, so it was like a like a
00:37:14
Freudian slip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um the
00:37:17
the dude on the top bunk in a dorm room
00:37:19
in Spain. Oh yeah, that wasn't very
00:37:21
nice. Flapping around like a fish. Yeah.
00:37:23
Were there other people in the dorm?
00:37:24
Yes.
00:37:27
It's not funny though, is it? How old
00:37:28
How old were you then? Oh, probably 20
00:37:30
22 maybe. Yeah. I don't know. See, I
00:37:33
feel like you can get away with it at
00:37:34
that age. Yeah, totally. Yeah. The thing
00:37:36
is I was in a blackout. It wasn't like I
00:37:38
can remember certain aspects of things
00:37:40
like flashes of memories of my behaviors
00:37:43
but then I a lot of it is kind of misty
00:37:46
like I can't see through to that person.
00:37:48
It's I want to kind of like break the
00:37:50
clouds apart and go what are you doing?
00:37:52
Like why are you doing this? Why are you
00:37:54
taking it to the biggest extreme out of
00:37:56
all of your friends? Why do you feel the
00:37:58
need to prove yourself? Cuz that's what
00:38:00
it was. I was just trying to come up
00:38:01
with a good, you know, a good story down
00:38:03
the pub the next day. We'd meet up for a
00:38:05
roast dinner, have a bloody Mary, get,
00:38:07
you know, and get a few drinks in. And I
00:38:08
wanted to be that person that could go,
00:38:10
"Here is my stupid story. This is the
00:38:12
crazy [ __ ] that happened last night."
00:38:14
And make a room full of people laugh. I
00:38:16
think really it was coming from a good
00:38:18
place. I was so wanting to make other
00:38:21
people happy. So much so that I forgot
00:38:23
that I mattered. Yeah. And [ __ ] you
00:38:25
accumulated a lot of stories. I did. And
00:38:28
um it would have been even okay back
00:38:30
then you were thinking you know what I'm
00:38:31
going to I'm going to get sober in a few
00:38:32
years and write this write a book about
00:38:34
this but that wasn't the uh that wasn't
00:38:36
the goal at the time tragically. Well
00:38:37
funny enough as part of our live show we
00:38:40
do I read some of my diaries out from
00:38:43
that time and I do say the word sober in
00:38:46
there because it's one day drunk one day
00:38:48
hung over next day wanting to be sober
00:38:51
next day drunk. It's like this kind of
00:38:52
constant pattern and I was really
00:38:54
surprised looking back at many many 25
00:38:57
years ago in my heyday the word sober
00:39:00
was popping up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
00:39:04
that's how you can recall a lot of the
00:39:05
stuff. Uh cuz you you've been a regular
00:39:07
diary keeper. Yeah. I've got loads of
00:39:09
diaries, massive ones. My time in New
00:39:11
Zealand when I was backpacking, I've got
00:39:13
about five diaries that are this thick.
00:39:15
Hamish, my co-host, comes with his
00:39:17
little book and mine are like like these
00:39:19
huge diaries like of everything that I
00:39:22
did. Yeah, I used to love keeping a
00:39:23
diary. I was always a writer. How like
00:39:25
to what sort of degree? Like bullet
00:39:27
points of or no? Like full Well, mostly
00:39:29
it's exactly what I said like it's
00:39:31
tonight I'm getting drunk. This is who
00:39:32
I've met and this is who I've slept with
00:39:34
and then this is how I feel the next
00:39:35
day. And it was every single page was
00:39:37
like a different story and a different
00:39:39
tragedy. It was chaos quite honestly to
00:39:43
read back on those and think that I
00:39:44
thought that was okay. Frightening.
00:39:47
Yeah. My dad is not listening to this
00:39:49
podcast. I can tell you that. Uh yes, he
00:39:52
did. See nothing about the book. He
00:39:54
phoned me up the other day. He's gone to
00:39:56
England. He's read it on the plane and
00:39:58
he said I did skip the chapters you
00:40:00
asked me to and I thoroughly enjoyed the
00:40:03
tsunami chapter. He said it's a
00:40:04
masterpiece, Victoria. So my parents are
00:40:07
still drinkers. They always have been,
00:40:08
always will be. And I there is a chapter
00:40:11
in there which is confronting about
00:40:13
them. There's an element of blame of
00:40:15
course because you know I grew up in a
00:40:17
household where it was the life and soul
00:40:20
of the street. In the book I describe it
00:40:22
as our house was on a dark street was
00:40:25
the sort of glimmering glitter ball.
00:40:27
Yeah. Your mom would have balloons out
00:40:28
front. Yeah. It was it was the party
00:40:30
house. Um yeah. What's the chapter
00:40:33
that's confronting about your parents?
00:40:34
Well, it's just that I had to say, look,
00:40:36
I'm not sure that I would have been a
00:40:38
massive drinker like I am if I hadn't if
00:40:41
I'd had a choice about it. I don't
00:40:43
necessarily feel like I had a choice
00:40:46
about alcohol. It has been coming for me
00:40:49
since the day I was born. And whether
00:40:51
that was growing up in my house, whether
00:40:54
it was the culture, whether it was my
00:40:56
environment, whether it was living in
00:40:57
England and there was a pub on the end
00:40:58
of every street, I feel like, and I
00:41:01
think many people feel like this is that
00:41:03
alcohol's just been coming for me and I
00:41:05
haven't been able to avoid it. So in the
00:41:07
book, I had to talk about these things.
00:41:09
You know, in my recovery, I had to say
00:41:11
these are the elements that made me who
00:41:13
I am and it's all of these things and it
00:41:15
my parents were included in that. And I
00:41:18
said, look, I knew that blaming them was
00:41:20
futile because it was going to hurt the
00:41:23
hearts of people that I loved. So I
00:41:25
decided very early on and it was very
00:41:27
clear when I wrote that chapter actually
00:41:29
that it wasn't any of excuse me that it
00:41:32
wasn't any of those things. It I had a
00:41:34
visualization of my hand coming out from
00:41:38
my body. This is me reaching out for a
00:41:41
drink. This is my hand reaching into the
00:41:43
fridge for a bottle of wine. It's my
00:41:45
hand waving a tener at the barman on a
00:41:47
Friday night. This hand is coming from
00:41:49
my body. So therefore, it is my
00:41:51
responsibility to stop this. Yeah, it's
00:41:54
interesting e that the the level of
00:41:57
accountability to put on your parents or
00:41:58
your surroundings cuz it's um while um
00:42:01
yeah, while listening to that part of
00:42:03
your book, it made me reflect on my own
00:42:05
and uh we'd go and visit my nana and
00:42:07
granddads most weekend. Grandad had a
00:42:09
bar downstairs in the basement and um
00:42:10
yeah, mom and my nana, they'd be
00:42:12
upstairs with the women and the guys
00:42:14
would go downstairs and um us kids would
00:42:16
be downstairs and yeah, it was an honor
00:42:19
if you got to like pour a beer for your
00:42:21
dad or uncle. And then um I didn't
00:42:23
realize it was the bad part of the beer,
00:42:24
but we got to drink the froth.
00:42:27
How old? Oh, I don't know. Seven, eight,
00:42:29
six, seven, eight, like like as as as
00:42:32
kids. So alcohol was always just a like
00:42:35
an like an undercurrent in that sort of
00:42:37
environment growing up. And so part of
00:42:40
me thinks, oh maybe I was you drawn to
00:42:42
drinking cuz I saw it as a right of
00:42:43
passage and part of being an adult. But
00:42:45
then now I'm at an age where some of my
00:42:48
mates have got like kids that are 18,
00:42:50
19, 20 and they just have no interest in
00:42:52
alcohol at all. And yet they had the
00:42:55
similar sort of thing, you know, where
00:42:57
alcohol was just in the house all the
00:42:58
time. And but maybe that's just more of
00:43:00
a society thing now with this Gen Z or
00:43:03
whatever the [ __ ] they're called. Yeah,
00:43:04
Gen Z. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:06
I think that is I think there is
00:43:07
changing. I think they have exposure to
00:43:09
more information now. So whether it's on
00:43:12
Instagram or whatever they're watching
00:43:14
because they're watching so many screens
00:43:15
all the time. I think they have exposure
00:43:17
to the impact that it has and they're
00:43:19
having they're kind of more aware of
00:43:21
their emotions nowadays. They're more
00:43:23
aware of of themselves and their safety.
00:43:26
I know me and my friends when we used to
00:43:28
go out we didn't give a [ __ ] what
00:43:29
happened to us like the more injured we
00:43:31
got and the more people that we slept
00:43:33
with the funnier it was whereas now it's
00:43:36
kind of there's people are a bit more
00:43:38
caring about themselves and about their
00:43:41
well-being and whether that's exposure
00:43:43
from media I'm not sure but I do feel
00:43:45
like things are changing a little bit in
00:43:46
that front yeah maybe I don't know maybe
00:43:49
part of it with um the the generation
00:43:51
coming through is um also just their
00:43:53
awareness of how troubling social media
00:43:56
can Yeah. Yeah. I took I took my mom to
00:43:58
um Boston last April for the marathon
00:44:00
and we went into like a like a cannabis
00:44:02
dispensary and it was like an Apple
00:44:04
store. Mom was filming it on her phone.
00:44:06
She put it on Facebook just just as a
00:44:08
novelty sort of thing. My sister said to
00:44:10
her, "Oh, mom, you need to be more
00:44:12
careful about your social footprint."
00:44:13
Oh, right. Mom's in her [ __ ] 70s.
00:44:16
Like she doesn't care about us. She's
00:44:18
out in the woods. Yeah. But it's
00:44:20
interesting. Yeah. But but yeah, maybe
00:44:21
um yeah, if you're 18 to 24 at the
00:44:24
moment, um maybe that's like a priority
00:44:26
about how this is going to look if
00:44:27
someone sees this and it ends up on
00:44:29
LinkedIn or Yeah. Well, of course. Yeah,
00:44:30
if somebody sees you when you're out,
00:44:32
people have can take footage of you and
00:44:34
Yeah. It's quite frightening, isn't it?
00:44:36
Yeah. I'm glad that didn't happen when I
00:44:37
was in my 20ies.
00:44:39
Um do you want to talk about your finger
00:44:42
or lack thereof? Yeah. So, that is one
00:44:44
of my drinking injuries. That is my
00:44:46
classic drinking injury, which I always
00:44:48
thought was the funniest thing ever.
00:44:50
Whereas now I'm like, "Oh my god, I
00:44:52
really was off my tit." But this is a
00:44:54
it's it's a this is the millennium,
00:44:55
right? 1999. It was the Millennium
00:44:58
Night. Yeah. It's the Millennium Stump.
00:45:00
You know, a fireworks display in
00:45:02
Thailand in Copang. It wasn't a display.
00:45:04
It was me lighting a firework that was
00:45:06
in my pocket at 3:00 in the morning
00:45:08
after being blackout drunk, having found
00:45:11
a bottle of cold red wine in a bar
00:45:14
somewhere. and rolling around on the
00:45:16
beach like a chicken snitle and then
00:45:18
walking home and lighting a small
00:45:20
firework in my hand and blowing my own
00:45:22
finger off. Yeah. So that was 25 years
00:45:24
ago. So you were how old then? I was 23.
00:45:27
23. Yeah. Yeah. And um and did you get
00:45:31
hospital treatment or you just like tape
00:45:32
it up? I was taken on a um one of those
00:45:35
kind of back of a truck where I was
00:45:38
passing out and saying I'll never blow
00:45:39
the piano again and then passing out
00:45:41
again. Were you a pianist? Yeah. Oh, I
00:45:43
just thought the whole thing was
00:45:44
hilarious. I thought, "This is going to
00:45:46
be a good story the next day." And I got
00:45:48
to the hospital and it was like
00:45:49
something out of mash and there was kind
00:45:52
of like syringes in buckets and I was
00:45:54
just like, "Oh gosh." And eventually I
00:45:56
flew to Australia where I was supposed
00:45:58
to be doing my year work visa and had
00:46:00
all like work done on it and skin grafts
00:46:02
and all sorts of things. But I was kind
00:46:03
of just winging it. I I remember phoning
00:46:05
my parents and I lied on the insurance
00:46:08
forms and said that somebody had thrown
00:46:10
a firework at me cuz I thought maybe I'd
00:46:11
get some money, but I didn't
00:46:13
unfortunately.
00:46:15
I mean, like, you're in a really good
00:46:16
place now. Like, it sounds like you got
00:46:17
a great marriage and you got kids and
00:46:19
you've got this um you know, it's
00:46:21
amazing the twist and turn life life
00:46:23
brings, right? You got a book and you
00:46:24
got this amazing podcast. Um, but when
00:46:27
you look back at when you look at your
00:46:29
hand now, like do you do like do you
00:46:31
sort of laugh with roast tint and
00:46:33
glasses or do you feel embarrassed or
00:46:34
sad or No, I don't feel embarrassed or
00:46:36
sad. I love what happened to me. I love
00:46:40
everything about it. I wouldn't have a
00:46:42
podcast if I didn't have these stories.
00:46:44
That's the joy of it. Every single
00:46:46
moment of my life has led me to here. I
00:46:49
wouldn't respect who I am if I hadn't
00:46:51
gone through something. I'd probably
00:46:53
just be having a mundane job and not be
00:46:56
very, you know, happy. Whereas now I can
00:46:59
look back, I feel like I've had twists
00:47:01
and turns and nave what made me every
00:47:04
step of the way led me to here and I
00:47:06
couldn't be more thankful for the
00:47:07
journey as it were. Yeah. Yeah. Does it
00:47:10
make it you more did you just flip me
00:47:13
half? Yeah. It goes up the It's good at
00:47:15
kids parties. Yeah. It has its benefits.
00:47:18
I guess that's the that's the bird
00:47:20
thing. That's the half of the bird.
00:47:23
Oh, that is pathetic. Yeah. My friends
00:47:24
call me the clock cuz I've got one hand
00:47:26
smaller than the other. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:28
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:30
I do get 10% off when I get my nails
00:47:32
done, though. You're so used to it as
00:47:34
well. Um I What was the incident where
00:47:37
you ended up in jail for the night? Yes,
00:47:39
that was a drink driving incident when I
00:47:40
was about 18. Um terrible it was. I
00:47:43
can't believe I did that. But that just
00:47:45
proof again of how I was always more
00:47:49
extreme than anybody else. I was working
00:47:52
in a pub at the time. My car was parked
00:47:55
where it shouldn't have been. And I
00:47:56
moved my car when I was quite heavily
00:47:58
under the influence. And I just remember
00:48:00
the blue light straight away. I hadn't
00:48:01
driven anywhere. I was literally moving
00:48:03
it up the road. No excuses. And
00:48:05
actually, that was a another good thing
00:48:07
that happened because it was so
00:48:09
humiliating. I had to breathe into a
00:48:11
breathalyzer. I had to go to court. I
00:48:13
had to plead guilty in front of, you
00:48:15
know, all of these people that had made
00:48:16
such a stupid mistake. And I was
00:48:19
embarrassed then back in that day. And I
00:48:21
never ever took a sip of alcohol and
00:48:22
drove ever again, I'm pleased to say. So
00:48:25
sometimes there were red flags that I
00:48:27
kind of tuned into. It didn't stop me
00:48:28
drinking. It didn't stop me taking drugs
00:48:30
and promiscuity and all that stuff, but
00:48:32
I think it maybe escalated those things
00:48:35
because I was just numbing out the fact
00:48:36
that I'd done some really stupid things
00:48:38
in my life. Yeah. Did that cause like a
00:48:41
huge amount of um shame for your family
00:48:43
or personal shame? No. No, not at all.
00:48:45
It was kind of a funny story of it got
00:48:47
done for drink driving. It was kind it's
00:48:49
kind of a path for the core. Is that the
00:48:51
word? It was just like one of those
00:48:53
things that added to our repertoire.
00:48:56
Like another crazy story. Thank God I
00:48:57
didn't hurt anyone. You know, I look
00:48:59
back on that is one situation I look
00:49:01
back on. I go, "God, you know, I got
00:49:03
away with that. Thank Thank I'm so
00:49:06
thankful for that." Yeah. Um there's
00:49:09
also a story about your husband sharing
00:49:11
you after spewing in a taxi. Yeah.
00:49:12
You've all got all the good ones,
00:49:13
haven't you? Yeah. Are they Are they all
00:49:15
the good ones? Yeah. I'm wondering.
00:49:16
That's the last one I've got. Oh, we
00:49:18
could We're at the skin straight with a
00:49:20
huge dick. How can you That was
00:49:22
frightening. Like girthy or long or
00:49:24
both? Girthy and long down to his knee.
00:49:27
So you you end up running away. I ran
00:49:28
away. I thought I thought it was a
00:49:29
snake.
00:49:32
And he's a ski instructor as well. I
00:49:34
know. It was a shame. I know. Um there
00:49:37
are there is more to it than knob
00:49:39
stories in my book. I will. But there
00:49:40
are quite this is just all from one
00:49:42
chapter. It's just one chapter. It's a
00:49:44
hell of a body count. The lady that
00:49:46
edited my book, she's so funny. I always
00:49:48
say to her, "It's not [ __ ]
00:49:49
Shakespeare." All right. She said, "Oh,
00:49:51
but Vic, you've got a turd trifecta." I
00:49:53
was like, "What's that?" She You've got
00:49:54
the word turd in three times. I'm Oh,
00:49:56
yes. That's a sort of quality writing
00:49:58
that we want. What was the uh what was
00:50:00
the context of remember? Oh, yes, you
00:50:02
can. I've had quite a few turd
00:50:04
confrontations in my time. It could be
00:50:06
one of many. Yeah. Um Oh, yeah. So, so
00:50:09
yeah, your husband sharing you after a
00:50:10
tax. So he I mean that seems like pretty
00:50:14
[ __ ] pretty drastic, right? It's a
00:50:16
it's a pretty drastic thing to do to
00:50:18
someone you love. So So he was a drinker
00:50:20
as well. Um he's given up now as you as
00:50:22
you mentioned, but he obviously wasn't
00:50:24
didn't have the same um unhealthy
00:50:26
relationship to alcohol as what you had.
00:50:28
Does like does does he see anything or
00:50:31
like the the next day or the following
00:50:33
weeks? There was an unnamed melancholy
00:50:36
between us the next day after that. I
00:50:38
would like to describe as What does that
00:50:39
mean? It means that there was a sadness
00:50:41
that we didn't talk about. Okay? There
00:50:43
was something hanging in the air that
00:50:44
felt very, very uncomfortable because I
00:50:47
had panic ripping through me like
00:50:50
wildfire in bed the next day, not able
00:50:52
to take care of my newborn. And that was
00:50:55
kind of one of the last times I drank
00:50:56
actually. and he had used to have to
00:50:59
come in and I would go from being this
00:51:01
life and soul of the party that he knew
00:51:04
to being this sort of person lying in
00:51:06
bed fragile not sure what she'd done
00:51:09
scared for her life and he's the one
00:51:11
that sort of crackled open the packet of
00:51:13
paracetal to me and was like are you all
00:51:15
right I'd be like I'm not all right I'm
00:51:17
not all right I'm having really bad
00:51:18
anxiety and I feel like I'm going to die
00:51:21
but the one thing that my husband never
00:51:23
did was tell me what to do I don't think
00:51:25
I would have listened he showed his
00:51:27
concern in other ways which may have
00:51:28
been like a cuddle or just a glass of
00:51:30
water next to the bedside table, you
00:51:32
know, cuz he knew I was going to be hung
00:51:34
over. But telling me was never going to
00:51:37
work. I had to work it out for myself.
00:51:39
But I could sense every time that I
00:51:41
drank, I was letting him down because I
00:51:44
used to have to listen to my life going
00:51:45
on without me. I'd be in bed not able to
00:51:48
move my head because I'd drunk too many
00:51:49
tequila shots whilst I could hear my
00:51:52
little baby's, you know, z jacket being
00:51:54
zipped up and them heading to the park
00:51:56
without me. And I knew that I'd become
00:51:58
sort of a bystander in my own life. And
00:52:01
that was really, really hard and
00:52:02
confronting which is why I had to
00:52:04
address the problem. I don't know if I
00:52:06
have hadn't had kids, I would have never
00:52:08
had a consequence to my drinking. That's
00:52:10
why I wonder whether I would have just
00:52:11
carried on. They were my reason why.
00:52:13
their little faces looking up at me,
00:52:15
needing me, and not being able to be
00:52:17
there had to be and still is now the
00:52:20
reason why I stay sober. Yeah. What What
00:52:23
What do you miss about it, if anything?
00:52:25
I don't miss anything. Yeah. I don't
00:52:27
miss anything. I love genuine
00:52:29
conversations like we're having now. I
00:52:31
love my genuine smile. I love being
00:52:33
authentic with people. I love being able
00:52:35
to leave and having boundaries and and
00:52:38
one of my favorite things is waking up
00:52:40
with a steady heartbeat. I used to come
00:52:42
to when I was a drinker. I used to sort
00:52:44
of wake up with that palpitations going
00:52:47
on. What have I done? Where have I been?
00:52:48
Who am I with? And I'd wake up in this
00:52:50
sort of shocked state. Whereas when I
00:52:53
became sober after a few years, I
00:52:55
realized I'm just waking and there is a
00:52:58
really soft heartbeat going on and it's
00:53:00
pure contentment because I've got
00:53:02
nothing to worry about. I do still have
00:53:04
the odd drinking dream which is quite
00:53:06
awful because I'm literally like way
00:53:09
back in there snorting coke off a DJ's
00:53:12
turntable like like on the dance floor.
00:53:16
So, occasionally I get those, but I try
00:53:18
and get the good bit out of those and
00:53:19
go, "Well, at least I got to experience
00:53:21
that again and not deal with the uh
00:53:24
dusty head the next day." Yeah, you got
00:53:25
some great war stories. That's
00:53:27
brilliant. You don't you don't miss the
00:53:29
um you know thought I've thought about
00:53:31
this with my own um experience. I think
00:53:34
what I would
00:53:35
miss some sometimes now if I'm getting
00:53:37
ready for a night out like it's the
00:53:38
anticipation and then when I'm out and
00:53:40
I'm drinking I'm actually not having a
00:53:41
very good time. It's seems [ __ ]
00:53:43
boring and lame. Yeah. Do you miss the
00:53:45
expectation or the I can still get that.
00:53:48
I can still look forward to something
00:53:49
and feel and I even look forward to it
00:53:52
more because I know that nothing awful
00:53:54
is going to happen. I can just look
00:53:56
forward without a hangover and knowing
00:53:59
that I'm going to be completely
00:54:00
compassmentous the next day and just get
00:54:02
on with my Sunday. You know, I'm so
00:54:05
thankful and grateful that I don't have
00:54:06
those thousand wasted Sundays anymore.
00:54:09
That any sort of memories of drinking or
00:54:12
any feelings I mean occasionally if I've
00:54:14
had a really long day, the kids are kids
00:54:16
are being [ __ ] and I'm finding life
00:54:19
generally hard. If somebody was to walk
00:54:21
by me with a really cold beer, that was
00:54:24
like my favorite thing would be to have
00:54:26
a cold beer. I would think, I wouldn't
00:54:28
mind whacking that down my neck. It's
00:54:31
really fleeting and I recognize it. But
00:54:34
that's just because my brain is wired to
00:54:37
think that and I can sit with it for a
00:54:38
second, go, "Oh, I remember you. I
00:54:40
remember that person that used to." That
00:54:41
was the problem. I wasn't thinking, "Oh,
00:54:43
I'd like to take that off the tray and
00:54:45
have a lovely little sip." I'd be like,
00:54:47
I want to grab that and throw it down my
00:54:49
face. And lady with the trade, don't go
00:54:51
too far. Yeah. Come back. Come back. So,
00:54:54
what do you what do you what do you do
00:54:56
now to sort of please that reward center
00:54:58
part of your brain or whatever? So, you
00:55:00
you know when you this calls for a
00:55:02
celebration, what do you reach for? A
00:55:04
lint ball. Sometimes what a lint ball.
00:55:07
Like those chocolate balls. Oh, a bougie
00:55:09
chocolate. Yeah, I do like a lint ball.
00:55:12
But yeah, then you have to go up sugar,
00:55:13
of course, because then that becomes a
00:55:14
whole other
00:55:15
addiction. I can have an alcohol-free
00:55:18
beer now. I quite enjoy one of those
00:55:19
like on a night out just to stop people
00:55:21
asking me questions sometimes. Um, and I
00:55:24
always like to have the thought of a
00:55:26
holiday booked. That's something I can
00:55:28
look forward to. But in the short term,
00:55:30
I just look forward to being my genuine
00:55:33
self in a social situation. Like, I look
00:55:35
forward to going out now, which is
00:55:38
lovely. I just look forward to eating
00:55:40
good food and being with friends. We had
00:55:42
Lee Mack, the comedian, on the podcast a
00:55:44
few months ago and he made a really
00:55:46
interesting point about this. He said,
00:55:48
"Alcohol gets all the credit for a night
00:55:50
out." He's like, "You go out and you go
00:55:53
the next day, didn't we have a brilliant
00:55:55
time? Everybody was pissed and we bonded
00:55:57
and there was all this camaraderie.
00:55:59
Wasn't it fantastic?" And then now he
00:56:02
goes out sober like I do. And we
00:56:05
realized that it was booze getting the
00:56:07
credit for the night out because I still
00:56:08
have those nights out. I went to the
00:56:10
Ministry of Sound gig. I've been to the
00:56:12
Chemical Brothers. I will dance all
00:56:14
night with a big grin on my face without
00:56:17
any drug or alcohol in me. So alcohol
00:56:19
was always getting the credit. And
00:56:21
actually, it's not the drug. It's your
00:56:24
mates. It's the ambiencece. It's the
00:56:26
music. It's having these nice
00:56:28
conversations. And it's the much more
00:56:30
simple things in life that I appreciate
00:56:32
now. And alcohol doesn't get any credit
00:56:34
at all. But how do you stay out late if
00:56:36
you're sober and everyone's getting
00:56:37
drunk around you? Drunk people are
00:56:39
[ __ ] annoying if you're not on the
00:56:40
same wavelength. If everyone's hammered,
00:56:42
then there is a point where you're like,
00:56:44
"Right, I can't do this anymore. I'm
00:56:46
out." I don't need any more spit in the
00:56:48
corner of my eye. Yeah. And that's why
00:56:49
we always say never be the designated
00:56:51
driver as a sober person because you
00:56:53
otherwise you have to end up waiting for
00:56:55
those people. Last man standing. Yeah.
00:56:57
Yeah. Last man stand. You don't want to
00:56:58
be there for that. But I usually just
00:57:00
leave early. Like I have boundaries now.
00:57:02
I don't need to stay. I've got nothing
00:57:03
to prove to anyone. What have I got to
00:57:05
prove? Like I can drink a pint of Snake
00:57:07
Bite and Black faster than anyone else
00:57:08
in Luton. I had the university record
00:57:10
when I was It's like a p It's like a p
00:57:12
of cider with beer and black currant
00:57:14
juice. But I don't have anything to
00:57:16
prove to anyone. So why would I stay
00:57:17
out? Because it's not going to make any
00:57:19
difference. I just know what when I feel
00:57:21
tired, I'm going to go home. I've had
00:57:23
enough. So I don't feel the need to
00:57:25
appease the opinions or the the choices
00:57:28
of others anymore. And that's something
00:57:30
that's huge to me as a people pleaser.
00:57:34
Yeah. And now you're in New Zealand
00:57:35
doing a live show. That's that's what
00:57:37
brought you here. A friend of mine,
00:57:38
Karina, who's uh on the sober journey
00:57:41
herself. I think she's like two years. I
00:57:43
think she's 18 months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:44
Yeah. So, she's doing really good. And
00:57:46
she's found your um podcast like a huge
00:57:49
a huge help as I'm sure she told you on
00:57:51
the the ride in from the airport. Yeah.
00:57:53
Um Yes. So, what what do these shows
00:57:55
look like? These live shows that you do.
00:57:56
So, we do a live show of the podcast.
00:57:58
Yeah, we specify sober socializing cuz
00:58:01
we totally believe that's why people in
00:58:04
this level of being sober curious,
00:58:06
that's why people don't give up alcohol
00:58:07
and why they start again is because of
00:58:09
their social life and being so scared of
00:58:11
who this person is within. And so we
00:58:14
focus on that, but it's basically a live
00:58:16
episode where we introduce the topic. We
00:58:19
try and do it in an alcohol-free
00:58:21
environment and we usually get a sponsor
00:58:23
on board. We've got Seedlip this time,
00:58:24
so an alcohol-free drinks company. And
00:58:26
everyone just comes into a room and
00:58:28
there's generally a lot of humor, a lot
00:58:30
of stories. Sometimes people from the
00:58:32
audience share some of their drinking
00:58:34
stories. Hamish and I read from our
00:58:35
diaries and we just have a laugh. It's
00:58:38
just a lovely evening. Yeah. God, those
00:58:40
diaries that you kept, it was like um it
00:58:42
was like past you was looking after
00:58:44
current you in a way, wasn't it? 100%.
00:58:46
That's a lovely way of looking at it.
00:58:47
Yeah, it was. And I still respect that
00:58:50
girl, you know, she was lost and she was
00:58:51
sad and I feel closer to her now. Part
00:58:55
of um of course part of um therapy is
00:58:58
doing that inner child work where you
00:59:00
connect with that person from your youth
00:59:02
and you try and understand them a bit
00:59:03
more. And now I definitely have more of
00:59:05
an understanding of who she was and why
00:59:07
she did the thing she did and it gives
00:59:09
me a sort of peace and contentment that
00:59:11
I've kind of made amends with her. Would
00:59:14
you would you change anything? Nothing.
00:59:16
Maybe the drink driving thing. Maybe
00:59:18
that guy turning away the skirt with the
00:59:21
Yeah. Maybe the bunk beds guy. There's a
00:59:22
few of those that definitely wouldn't
00:59:24
have been as satisfied as they were.
00:59:26
When I wrote this book, I never imagined
00:59:28
in a million years when I sat in my
00:59:30
son's bedroom and wrote this book that
00:59:32
anyone would ever read it, which is why
00:59:34
all of those awful stories in there
00:59:36
because I was writing it for me. There's
00:59:38
no way I thought I'd get a publishing
00:59:39
deal and somebody would put it out
00:59:40
there. So, yeah, it's quite confronting
00:59:42
that people know things like that. I
00:59:44
have to exit it from my brain. It's
00:59:46
cool, though. You must um look look at
00:59:48
this work with a sense of pride like
00:59:50
giving given where you are now and think
00:59:51
[ __ ] that's a long journey. Yeah. I'm
00:59:53
not sure some people I know feel the
00:59:55
same about it cuz they probably think
00:59:56
I'm a bit of an oversharer. But at the
00:59:58
same time who cares? Everyone's done
01:00:00
this [ __ ] You know, don't pretend you
01:00:02
haven't. Everybody's done this [ __ ]
01:00:04
Everybody's done crazy stuff in their
01:00:05
lives. We've all been down the seafront
01:00:07
with a traffic cone on our head naked on
01:00:10
Byron Bay. You know, we've all done it.
01:00:12
So, I'm just saying, "Yeah, I did it and
01:00:13
now I tried something else and that's
01:00:15
better. That's all I can do. Not all of
01:00:17
us have lost a finger in coffee. My
01:00:19
stories are quite extreme. It's funny.
01:00:21
We always call Hamish, the who I do the
01:00:23
podcast with. We always call him like
01:00:25
the normal drinker and like kind of no
01:00:27
game H who was a bit of a lightweight,
01:00:29
but his stories, I swear to you, they're
01:00:32
as bad as mine. So, he's always got
01:00:34
something that he can push back at me
01:00:36
with. I feel like it's good. And if
01:00:37
you're going to be the the person that
01:00:38
front foots it, it creates like um an
01:00:41
open space for vulnerability, doesn't
01:00:42
it? It allows that vulnerability
01:00:43
exchange to take place. And I find that
01:00:45
so healing, the vulnerability. You know,
01:00:47
we have a thing called the shame shared
01:00:49
on the podcast where people write in
01:00:50
their most terrible things that they've
01:00:52
done when they're drinking. And it's
01:00:53
like we share this communal blame and it
01:00:56
makes things a lot easier. It's like you
01:00:58
get away with this individual shame and
01:00:59
have communal blame instead and it lifts
01:01:02
it lifts the weight off everybody. I do
01:01:04
think there is something really deep and
01:01:06
meaningful in telling your story in an
01:01:08
honest perhaps brutally honest way.
01:01:10
Sometimes the emails that I get are, "I
01:01:14
didn't know that there was somebody
01:01:15
worse than me." And it makes people not
01:01:17
feel so bad. Yeah. All right. Well,
01:01:20
Victoria Van Stone uh from the Sober
01:01:22
Awkward podcast, award-winning and also
01:01:25
the book 1,000 Wasted Sundays, which um
01:01:28
it's on audible. You can probably get it
01:01:30
on Amazon as well for your Kindle. Um
01:01:32
hey, congratulations on everything
01:01:33
you've done. And well, no,
01:01:35
congratulations on everything you're
01:01:37
doing and shame on you for some of the
01:01:39
things you've done.
01:01:40
That's a great way to end. Thanks, Tom.
