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How Samoana Matagi Survived 14,400 Volts & Lost Both Hands

April 26, 2026 / 01:15:20

Video

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14,400 volts came in my left hand.

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Remember smelling cooked flesh.

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>> What did your hands look like?

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>> A hot dog that you leave in the

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microwave. It felt like my hands were

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being burned.

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>> What's the last thing you remember

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before everything changed?

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>> My supervisor lowered me down from the

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bucket. He did chest compressions to

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start my heart again. Doesn't seem like

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much of a choice. He's also a lineman.

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Actually killed his pole partner. He

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lost his arm, but he also lost his pole

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partner. I had to ask her to wipe my

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bottom.

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>> Was that rock bottom?

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>> I didn't want to get up. I will always

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need someone to help me. Felt like I

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lost a sense of my identity.

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>> Did you ever feel like you were going to

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die?

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>> He thought I was going to be a goner. I

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believe I can do everything.

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>> Oh god, you're here. Come on. This is

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the center of performance. Whenever

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there's a top performance in New

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Zealand, it all comes from here. That's

00:00:53

Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that

00:00:55

for days. That's the boy who got the

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hollow one in top.

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Oh,

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>> he did it again. Hey Finn, how's the

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performance going?

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>> Top tier.

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>> Nice. This is our generate room. In

00:01:06

here, you'll find our top performers

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helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver

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investments. Get in here, Finn.

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>> Maximize Generate. Putting performance

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first.

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>> Sam Martangi, the Nohanded Bandit.

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Welcome to my podcast.

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>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

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Appreciate the opportunity to come and

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talk.

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>> Yeah. Well, it's great to have you here

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uh in New Zealand from Utah, Salt Lake

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City.

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>> That's right. Uh I've been here about 4

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days and uh it's exciting. There's a lot

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of new adventures to do here. Yeah.

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>> What are the biggest surprises about New

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Zealand so far? Is it the the lack of

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water in the toilets?

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>> Oh, yeah. No, that that one's I' I've

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been to Brazil and so it's the same kind

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of system, but uh I think the surprises

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like traffic. There's traffic

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everywhere. I didn't think there was

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traffic everywhere.

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>> What were you expecting?

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>> I don't know.

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>> Well, it's great to have you here. Um,

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yes. Sam Moana from American Samoa. Um,

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nickname online, the no-handed bandit.

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Uh, which anyone that's watching this

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will be able to figure out how you got

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that nickname. Anyone that's just

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listening to this, uh, won't be able to

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see what's going on. So, why the

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nickname the no-handed bandit? Uh, I

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first came up with the nickname Nohanded

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Bandit when I was, uh, 34. I was working

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on power lines and we were working on a

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14,400 volt power line. I went to throw

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away a piece of scrap wire and the tail

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end flipped up and hit the power line

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and then 14,400 volts came in my left

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hand and out my right hand. And so, uh,

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due to the burn injuries, uh, the

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insides of my forearms were burnt so

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badly that they had to amputate my

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hands. And when I was in the hospital, I

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was working with the occupational

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therapist and they were trying to teach

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me how to do things with these hands.

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And uh, we were looking on YouTube and

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there wasn't very many people on YouTube

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there. There wasn't any people on

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YouTube teaching how to do that. And so

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at the time I thought maybe once I get

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better I'll make YouTube videos. And

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then I was thinking what should I go by?

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And I thought nohanded. And what rhymes

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with nohanded? Bandit kind of rhymes.

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>> Near enough. And how's your how's your

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content going?

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>> Uh it's doing good. Uh there's a lot of

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people that watch that are double hand

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amputees, but there's also a lot of

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people that watch just because they find

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it inspiring that, you know, I'm out

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there trying to do things and it helps

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them to smile and and go about their

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day, uh trying their best.

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>> So, the arms you've got, what what's the

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name? Do we call them prosthetics? Yeah,

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these are uh prosthetics or you could uh

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well the technical name is prosthesis

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but uh we call them prosthetics. I call

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them my hooks sometimes. Um or I just

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call them my hands. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. They're very robotic looking.

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>> Yeah, they well they seem robotic but

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they're actually more uh mechanical. So

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this cable it if I stretch out my arm it

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pulls this this what looks like a thumb

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and then when I bend my elbows it

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closes. Also has like a wrist that's

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loaded with a spring to spin and then I

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can you know rotate it to the right

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position and pick up stuff. And

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>> and then I have one last thing is like

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flexing. So if I want something to get

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to my mouth, I need to flex it.

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>> Everything for you is way more difficult

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now than what it was.

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>> Yeah. I mean pre2010.

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>> Yeah, for sure. Like the whole world I

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think like everything is made for people

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with hands cuz obviously there's a lot

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more people with hands. Uh like doorork

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knobs and steering wheels and things

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like that all made for hands. And so

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sometimes it's a matter of me doing it

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uh uh a certain amount of times and then

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I catch catch a hold of it and I'm able

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to do it pretty fast.

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What's the dumbest question you

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constantly get?

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Uh the dumbest question I constantly get

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uh well

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it's usually um were you in a war? Like

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they automatically jumped into they are

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automatically jumped if to war and so

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they assume everybody that's amputated

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is a war. So I think that's the dumbest

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question like

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>> um at least get to know me first before

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you ask me to the bedroom. No, just

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kidding.

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>> And what's your favorite madeup

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explanation for what happened? Do you

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ever do you ever run with the war theme

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or

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>> Yeah. No. Well, there's uh the war

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theme. I uh sometimes I learned one from

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my friend. It's like you say, "Oh man,

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it was hot in Afghanistan." You just say

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how the weather was. Or uh for kids, I

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tell them like it was sharks or bears or

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even sometimes the kids play so much

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video games that that I tell them a

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video game controller blew up in my

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hands. And then they go, "I shouldn't

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play so much video games. It's

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dangerous." Yeah.

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>> Well, you may as well try and have some

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fun with it if you can. Right.

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>> Yeah. Exactly.

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>> Um I need to warn you in advance, and I

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apologize for this. I'm bound to ask

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some dumb questions today. M um but it

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comes from a place of wanting to learn

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more.

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>> Yeah. No. Uh I think

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>> the dumbest question actually is not to

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ask at all. So I like I like fielding

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questions.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Are you able to um you've got that glass

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of water in front of you. Are you able

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to pick that up? How do you How do you

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>> Yeah, it's uh basically I put up my

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hooks around it and then I'll pick it up

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and

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take a drink and then put it down. Yeah.

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>> Unreal. And I notice on your on your

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left uh forearm

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>> uh you've got your phone attached there.

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>> Yeah.

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>> How do you like how do you unlock that

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and operate? How do you text? So, I I

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use what's called swipe to text and um

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the hooks actually work on the screen. A

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lot of people are surprised by that, but

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uh it works. Uh it's a Samsung and so

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the brand kind of matters sometimes. Uh

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back when I was injured, I had a iPhone

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and the iPhone didn't work with the

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hooks, so I had to use a stylus. But, uh

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texting is I use swipe to text. So, I

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will touch the each letter

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um and then

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swipe it along to the next letter and

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stop right there.

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>> But it's funny, isn't it? So, going from

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like um an iPhone to an Android, that's

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um it's a pain in the ass for a lot of

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people. So, but I suppose it's the same

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for you for you in a in a a much much

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much more severe way. going from having

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uh arms to having these things. It's

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like you got to learn this new way of

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going about things.

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>> Yeah. The going when I first when it

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first happened, it was a tough mental

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jump. And I think that's the the part

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that uh I want to emphasize is like the

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mental part is probably the hardest

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part. Um and just like any traumatic

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injury, it's probably the mental part

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that gets most people. Yeah.

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Or one more dumb question before we get

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get into it. Say we had a barbecue going

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here and there were sausages on it.

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Yeah.

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>> Would would you get tongs or would you

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just use the

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>> No, I would just use the hooks and spin

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them around like I have tongs built in.

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So the other thing is like me trying to

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use tongs is like you trying to use

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tongs to open tongs. You know what I'm

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saying? So I I'm just using the tongs.

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>> Is that a dumb question or is that a

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reasonable question?

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>> No, that's a good question. In fact, uh

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like tongues is my number one enemy. So

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I never try to use tongs.

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>> Yeah. What else can't you do?

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>> Um

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>> is there many things that you can think

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of that you just are unable to do?

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>> I believe I can do everything. And

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that's part of uh being able to succeed

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in a lot of things is you first got to

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believe you can do it and then if you

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believe you can do it, you can do it.

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>> Man, this is going to be a great chat.

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There's so much to discuss

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>> and unpack here. Yeah. Uh, first of all,

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who were you before December 2010?

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>> Uh, I was a power line worker. Uh, I was

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a person that loves sports, uh,

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specifically basketball and football.

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And, uh, I also, uh, had a degree in

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broadcast journalism. And so, I was a

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video editor. And all these things had

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hands, uh, and involve hands. And so

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when I got when I lost my hands, I felt

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like I lost a sense of my identity. And

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uh I think that's the difficult part

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about it. The the mental

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um toughness to say I am that same

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person. It's just I have to do things

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differently. Yeah.

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>> In a in a sense, did that feel like a

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death? Like an identity death?

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>> Yeah. for uh a while it was like I I

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thought I'm no longer that person that

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can help other people and I'm the one

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that's depending on everyone else's

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help. And for a while it was an identity

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death, but I think

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>> part of recovery is like trying all

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those things that you used to love and

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figuring out how to do them. Like I

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still play basketball now. uh every

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weekend I'm playing and then when it

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gets to winter time I play about three

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times a week. So I think when a person

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gets in the accident they they think

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their identity may be gone but uh I

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would argue that they are the still the

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same person and who they are is exist

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inside their brain and inside their

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heart.

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Any accident doesn't change that until

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you you're dead and then your identity

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is gone for real.

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>> Yeah, that that's a great lesson. And

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and you can you can create a new

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identity at any time.

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>> That's true. Uh I think part of being

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resilient is the idea that you can

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create a new identity any time. Um you

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can also uh look at life in a positive

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way and then figure out uh how that new

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identity will be. Yeah.

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>> Which is like the idea behind the

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YouTube channel and um creating

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something that gives back to the world.

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Yeah.

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>> So December 13, 2010, that's when the

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accident happened. Um it's actually 15

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15 years ago this week that we're

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recording it.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Um does the date mean anything to you?

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>> Yeah. Uh in the burn community or the

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burn survivor community, we call it a

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burniversary and it's kind of like uh it

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sounds uh like why would you celebrate

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uh your date you got burned? I think uh

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another way to look at it is um uh

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reborn day

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>> like the day you were reborn cuz when

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you are a burn survivor you have to

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create a new identity and become a new

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person uh often. So uh I think I

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celebrate it now. Back in the beginning,

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it was like, "Oh, that's that day is

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terrible." But uh now I'm like, "Yeah,

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that's the day I was uh born again and

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and become a new person, you know."

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>> Yes. So that day, December 13, 2010,

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you're in Colorado. You're working on

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power lines in a small farming town.

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>> What's the last thing you remember

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before everything changed?

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>> Uh I just was remembering the last thing

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I looked down.

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uh to throw the piece of wire that I cut

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and my boss was down there. And so I

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decided I'm going to turn around and

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throw it behind me. And so to me, it

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symbolizes that I was always thinking of

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other people. Like if I was thinking of

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myself, I just thrown that piece of wire

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on his head. But uh uh for me to come up

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with a YouTube channel to try to help

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other people, that's who I am. like who

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I am, my identity actually was uh

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service, serving others and helping

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other people.

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>> Yeah.

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>> So, the shock you black out so you don't

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remember anything, you don't feel

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anything. You're just going by what

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you've been told by third-hand accounts.

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>> Yeah. Uh I it the shock knocked me out

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and also I was not breathing. Uh my

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supervisor lowered me down from the the

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bucket, the cherry picker. I don't know

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how you call it here. Um, and then he

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did chest compressions to start my heart

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again and uh start me breathing. But all

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this whole time I didn't come to to

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consciousness until they were carrying

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me on a stretcher to the helicopter. And

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I remember waking up and I could hear a

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helicopter and I thought I was waking up

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to start the day and uh and then all of

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a sudden I felt my hands burning and

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they were asking uh what's your name?

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What's your address? And I kept

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repeating my name and address and then I

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would ask at the end like why are my

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hands burning? And so it didn't I didn't

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they knocked me out again medically and

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then uh I woke up and I was in the

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hospital.

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>> Yeah.

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>> So people that were there that day, um

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the people that called the first

00:15:20

responders, the people that gave you

00:15:22

CPR,

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have you had conversations with them?

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What have they said about it? Did they

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think you were going to make it? Uh, I

00:15:29

haven't talked to them, but uh, I know I

00:15:31

went through that small town and I think

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everyone in the town knows that story

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and I stopped in a gas station and I was

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buying something and there was this old

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tough cowboy that was uh, he was looking

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at me and it turned out to be that he

00:15:47

was the uncle of the lady I was renting

00:15:50

a room from. And uh he just to see me he

00:15:54

was crying cuz he thought I was going to

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be a goner. Like you see a tough old man

00:15:59

like that crying it's like they don't do

00:16:01

that very often. And so yeah.

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>> Yeah. That's so impactful.

00:16:06

>> Yeah.

00:16:07

>> So so so when you're drifting in and out

00:16:09

of consciousness in the helicopter like

00:16:12

what are you are you in pain or are you

00:16:13

just confused bewildered?

00:16:15

>> Yeah. No I'm uh I'm in pain. Uh so

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there's a thing it's called phantom pain

00:16:22

and your nervous system uh even though

00:16:25

the the parts are cut off it's it's

00:16:29

feeling the burning sensation and it's

00:16:32

sending a signal to the brain that oh

00:16:35

your hands are burning and so I was

00:16:37

feeling that it felt like my hands were

00:16:39

being burned and it felt a little bit

00:16:42

electrical. Um so yeah.

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>> What did your hands look like? Uh they

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were still there, but uh I always

00:16:52

equated to, you know, a hot dog that you

00:16:55

leave in the microwave, it gets pretty

00:16:57

fat. And uh my hands were um swollen.

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>> And then they had little holes. Well,

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they weren't little, they were big holes

00:17:06

where the entry wound was and the exit

00:17:08

wound. Yeah.

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>> What did the paramedics paramedics tell

00:17:12

you? Uh they at the time when they were

00:17:16

taking me on the helicopter, they didn't

00:17:18

tell me anything. They wanted to keep me

00:17:21

out of shock. And so it's when I get to

00:17:24

the hospital that they inject um a die

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inside my bloodstream to make sure that

00:17:31

blood is flowing down to the hands. And

00:17:33

then the doctor was at that time saying,

00:17:36

"Well, we need to see if blood's flowing

00:17:38

down there. If it is, then we could save

00:17:40

your hands." Uh and then uh I was in

00:17:44

there on a Monday and by Friday they

00:17:46

were saying the blood wasn't flowing and

00:17:48

we're going to take you down to the

00:17:50

operation room and we need to amputate

00:17:53

your hands. But they they gave the

00:17:54

choice to me like do you want to try to

00:17:57

keep your hands and risk gang green and

00:17:59

and die or do you want to Yeah. Doesn't

00:18:02

seem like much of a choice. Uh or have

00:18:05

your hands amputated. They want to make

00:18:07

you sound like you're choosing. Yeah.

00:18:11

Yeah, I've had um a woman on the podcast

00:18:14

called um Sharon Shaz Dag and uh she she

00:18:18

lost um lost an arm in a in a storm.

00:18:20

She's on a farm. It was a very stormy

00:18:22

night. She went out to check on the

00:18:23

animals and then a sheet of corrugated

00:18:24

iron flew off um off one of the um one

00:18:27

of the animals shelters and it ended up

00:18:29

like slicing her arm and they gave her

00:18:32

the same option. Do you want to keep it

00:18:33

or do you want to lose it? and she she

00:18:35

went to keep it and then for the next

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year and a half it was just kind of it

00:18:38

was kind of useless and it wasn't doing

00:18:40

and in in the end she made the decision

00:18:42

herself just to amputate it.

00:18:44

>> Yeah.

00:18:44

>> So they had saved it successfully but it

00:18:46

just wasn't functioning and if anything

00:18:47

it was like holding her back.

00:18:49

>> Um

00:18:51

>> I can't imagine how impossibly difficult

00:18:52

it is for a human to to make that

00:18:54

decision.

00:18:55

>> Mhm. Yeah. Uh I think for me I'm like a

00:18:59

different kind of person where I make

00:19:01

decisions and uh the impact doesn't hit

00:19:04

me till later and so

00:19:06

>> impulsive we call it.

00:19:07

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh I think the impact hit me

00:19:10

when I got home from the hospital. So, I

00:19:12

stayed in the hospital in Colorado for

00:19:15

one month and then I went to Utah to get

00:19:18

closer to home and I stayed there for a

00:19:20

month and a half. And it wasn't until I

00:19:22

got home that I said, "Oh man, this is

00:19:24

going to be hard." And I remember being

00:19:27

depressed, so depressed that I slept the

00:19:29

whole first week uh at home not knowing

00:19:34

what to do, you know. Uh, and I think

00:19:36

the most important thing was that I got

00:19:39

a hold of another person that was a

00:19:42

double hand amputee and and I was able

00:19:44

to ask him questions. Once I I found out

00:19:48

how to do certain things, then I was

00:19:50

like on the road to recovery. Yeah.

00:19:54

>> Did you ever feel like you were going to

00:19:55

die? Like you knew that your your hands

00:19:58

were um a touchandgo situation, but did

00:20:00

you ever feel like your life was in the

00:20:01

balance? Uh I think my life the only

00:20:04

time my life was in the balance was when

00:20:06

I was in the bucket and not breathing.

00:20:09

And uh at the time I wasn't able I

00:20:12

wasn't thinking cuz I was knocked out

00:20:13

you know I was unconscious. So uh during

00:20:16

the recovery I never felt like I was

00:20:18

going to die. No.

00:20:20

>> Yeah. So, you're in hospital and they

00:20:22

they do what they can to save your hands

00:20:24

and then um you've got to make the Well,

00:20:26

I was going to say an impossibly

00:20:27

difficult decision, but it sounds like

00:20:28

they they gave you the pros and cons and

00:20:31

it seems like it's a no-brainer.

00:20:32

>> Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:33

>> But then, so then you go into surgery.

00:20:35

What's that like wake waking up um like

00:20:38

a different person to what you were

00:20:39

before? Uh

00:20:42

again, it didn't hit me while I was in

00:20:44

the hospital because I always had the

00:20:47

the you know, you're always sitting

00:20:50

there in the hospital bed and there's

00:20:52

always this button that you can push and

00:20:54

there's a person that's getting paid to

00:20:56

come take care of you. You know, there's

00:20:58

always that safety switch. And so it

00:21:00

doesn't hit me until I get home that I'm

00:21:03

going to have to take care of myself

00:21:05

without any prosthetics. Um, and I think

00:21:09

the hardest part was like the first time

00:21:11

I went to the bathroom, my mom was still

00:21:14

alive and I had to ask her to to wipe my

00:21:17

bottom. And it to have your mother

00:21:22

wiping your bottom at the age of 34.

00:21:24

It's like, oh man, this sucks. Uh, I

00:21:27

need to learn how to do it so that she

00:21:29

doesn't have to do it cuz she already

00:21:31

did it when I was a little baby, you

00:21:32

know?

00:21:33

>> And so yeah, that the hard part came

00:21:36

when I got home. Yep.

00:21:42

>> Yeah. I just can't imagine that. Like

00:21:43

I'm um I feel like you and I are similar

00:21:46

in the respect that we're both fiercely

00:21:47

independent individuals.

00:21:49

>> So just losing that um independence and

00:21:51

um relying on others to do the most, you

00:21:53

know, basic human requirements.

00:21:56

Was that rock bottom?

00:21:57

>> That was rock bottom. I didn't want to

00:22:00

get up. I didn't want to do anything.

00:22:03

The only thing that helped me, I mean,

00:22:05

there was lots of things that helped me,

00:22:07

but one of the things that helped me is

00:22:09

I would because I was sleeping all day,

00:22:12

I would wake up at nighttime and I would

00:22:14

turn on the TV and there was this show.

00:22:16

It's called Wipeout and

00:22:18

>> Oh, yeah. With the big red balls.

00:22:20

>> Yeah. The big red balls and people just

00:22:22

getting plastered. And I that helped me

00:22:24

cuz I was laughing like watching all

00:22:27

these people getting plastered. Yep.

00:22:32

I suppose like some light escapism like

00:22:35

that, it just gets you out of your own

00:22:36

head space. Gets gets you out of your

00:22:38

own feelings.

00:22:39

>> Yeah, 100%.

00:22:40

>> Okay. So, your brother, this is the

00:22:42

crazy story. So, your brother Fatu

00:22:44

>> Yeah. Fatu. Yeah.

00:22:44

>> Fatu. Yeah. He he he also lost a hand in

00:22:47

a similar sort of accident.

00:22:49

>> Yeah. He he's also a lineman and he was

00:22:52

climbing on a pole and uh electricity

00:22:56

has a direction. It has it's like

00:22:58

traffic. there's a flow. And uh he went

00:23:02

up the pole and the city gave him a map

00:23:05

and it showed the electricity going one

00:23:08

way when it was actually going the other

00:23:10

way. And so the wire that he thought was

00:23:14

energized was deenergized and the one

00:23:17

that he thought was deenergized was

00:23:19

energized. And so he sustained a a burn

00:23:22

from 7200 volts. and uh his pole partner

00:23:26

tried to save him. Uh knocked the wire

00:23:29

off of him and then the wire came down

00:23:32

and hit his pole partner and actually

00:23:34

killed his pole partner. And so he he

00:23:39

lost his arm, but he also lost his pole

00:23:42

partner. And so there's a lot of like

00:23:44

survivors guilt and and stuff in in that

00:23:47

situation. Yeah.

00:23:50

So when you're in hospital, um, he

00:23:52

decides, by the way, what year did he

00:23:54

lose? What year did that happen to him?

00:23:56

>> 2008,

00:23:57

>> right? So two years before you.

00:23:58

>> Y.

00:23:59

>> So here he is. He's just getting getting

00:24:01

to grips with the, I suppose, the

00:24:03

dayto-day of um, you losing a hand and

00:24:05

then it happens to his brother. Um, only

00:24:07

twice as bad.

00:24:09

>> Um, he he graciously skips Christmas

00:24:12

with his own family to join you in

00:24:13

hospital.

00:24:14

>> Um, yeah. What did his presence mean to

00:24:17

you in those early days? Uh, it meant a

00:24:19

lot to be having family there. Um,

00:24:21

because without him there, I mean, I

00:24:24

have an uncle and aunt that lived in

00:24:26

Colorado, but just it's it means a lot

00:24:30

more when it's your your sibling. Like I

00:24:34

grew up with him and and he grew up with

00:24:36

me and we always went on adventures

00:24:38

together. And also like

00:24:41

>> not only did he lose his arm, but he's

00:24:43

also working in the same field as me.

00:24:46

And so we had a lot in common to talk

00:24:48

about like linemen, power lines, um,

00:24:52

growing up together. And so it felt like

00:24:56

I was being supported in the best way

00:24:59

possible with him there.

00:25:02

>> Yeah. What could he what could he offer

00:25:04

you like in terms of um, you know, going

00:25:07

beyond moral support and brotherly love?

00:25:09

>> Mhm. He he kind of like put out a map.

00:25:13

It's going to be hard. He kept telling

00:25:15

me it's going to be hard and uh that

00:25:18

like braces me for the impact. It's like

00:25:21

when you're going to get in a accident,

00:25:24

if somebody told you you're going to hit

00:25:26

a car, then you're going to brace for

00:25:28

impact before you get hit. Um and so

00:25:31

that's part of what he he brings to me.

00:25:34

And then also like the humor.

00:25:36

>> Uh him and I, we have the kind of the

00:25:38

same sense of humor, this kind of

00:25:40

slapstick humor. Um, and so he's able to

00:25:43

make me laugh during the the time I was

00:25:46

in the hospital at that Christmas time.

00:25:49

>> You know, I believe there was an

00:25:50

incident when you were discharged from

00:25:52

hospital and you're flying home and he

00:25:54

feeds you on the plane.

00:25:55

>> Oh, yeah. He was uh it was funny because

00:25:58

I still had these wound vacuums on my

00:26:01

arms and so I look like a mess. And uh

00:26:05

we go to get a hamburger and at

00:26:08

McDonald's and he's sitting there

00:26:10

feeding me and I'm we're laughing at

00:26:12

because of the the

00:26:13

>> the ridiculous. Yeah. The

00:26:15

ridiculousness. Exactly.

00:26:19

>> I'm trying to put myself in your

00:26:20

position

00:26:22

every sort of first like that. So you

00:26:24

you you get discharged from hospital,

00:26:26

you've got these these bandages on and

00:26:28

these these arms with nothing on the end

00:26:30

where for the past 35 years of your life

00:26:32

there's been things on the end that you

00:26:33

can use

00:26:35

every every time you encounter something

00:26:36

news a new it's just a reminder of um of

00:26:39

of what you had that you no longer have

00:26:42

like how do you process that sort of

00:26:43

grief?

00:26:44

>> Uh I think

00:26:46

there's a certain way to look at it. You

00:26:49

can either look at it uh looking back at

00:26:52

the past and looking back at the past

00:26:56

usually brings depression. But if you

00:26:58

look in the present or live in the

00:27:00

present and be in the present moment,

00:27:04

you're not thinking about what you used

00:27:06

to have, but you're thinking about what

00:27:08

you're going to do to get through that

00:27:10

situation. And so the best way to live

00:27:13

life is to be in the present. Cuz you

00:27:15

can be in the past and be depressed and

00:27:18

think about what you used to have. You

00:27:20

can also live in the future and be

00:27:22

anxious about what's going to happen.

00:27:24

But if you stay in the present moment,

00:27:27

uh you won't be depressed or an anxious,

00:27:31

you'll be looking at the opportunities

00:27:33

that are presented right before you at

00:27:35

that moment. So I have an opportunity to

00:27:37

learn something every single day that I

00:27:39

encounter something new. And uh I also

00:27:42

have the opportunity to teach someone

00:27:45

else that that's that's how I come up

00:27:47

with the YouTube channel is I'm looking

00:27:50

at these things and hey, how do you do

00:27:53

this? Okay, I'm going to put it on

00:27:54

YouTube and I'm going to help the next

00:27:57

person that comes along.

00:27:59

>> I don't know if there there will be like

00:28:01

a better takeaway than that from this

00:28:02

episode. I I love that so much. So

00:28:05

>> depression's caused by thinking about or

00:28:07

wishing things were different than what

00:28:09

they were.

00:28:09

>> Yeah. Anxiety is caused by worrying

00:28:11

about what's ahead.

00:28:12

>> Yeah.

00:28:13

>> Did you always have that mindset or is

00:28:14

this something that you developed out of

00:28:16

necessity?

00:28:17

>> Um, so the journey that I learned that

00:28:20

along the journey and it's because you

00:28:23

know I went to a psychologist. I went to

00:28:28

uh group meetings for burn survivors and

00:28:32

um all these things that I I've done

00:28:34

taught me that. And so, um, I think that

00:28:38

a lot of times people get in a situation

00:28:40

like this or a traumatic situation and

00:28:42

they don't do anything. And doing

00:28:45

nothing, uh, you're not going to

00:28:48

progress. It's when you get out of your

00:28:50

comfort zone, uh, and do work, that's

00:28:54

when you're going to learn these things.

00:28:56

You know, a lot of people just feel so

00:28:59

helpless that they do nothing.

00:29:02

>> It's like a cheesy lot. Do you know the

00:29:03

movie The Shaw Shank Redemption? Yeah.

00:29:05

>> Yeah. There's a cheesy line on that. Get

00:29:07

busy living or get busy dying. Exactly.

00:29:09

>> And um and grief in whatever form it

00:29:11

looks like, whether it's mourning body

00:29:12

parts or mourning a loved one. It just

00:29:14

it can consume you and make your world

00:29:16

so small. Yeah.

00:29:17

>> Um and the best thing you can do for

00:29:19

yourself and the people around you is to

00:29:21

is to fight that.

00:29:22

>> Yeah.

00:29:23

>> Make your world big again.

00:29:24

>> I think uh it's the tendency to just

00:29:28

think about me me. Uh, and so when you

00:29:31

start thinking about me me, then yeah,

00:29:34

your world shrinks down to Oh, shoot.

00:29:39

>> That's all right. No big deal.

00:29:40

>> Yeah. So, you you think about me me and

00:29:43

your your world shrinks down to just

00:29:45

yourself and then uh then you become

00:29:49

depressed and and then you you're

00:29:52

helpless. Yeah.

00:29:53

>> Can you remember the first time you

00:29:54

laughed again or smiled again?

00:29:56

Well, I I I'm I'm a laugher. I laugh a

00:30:00

lot. My brother, he he's uh he's good at

00:30:04

making me laugh, too. And so, it was in

00:30:06

the hospital. Um in fact, uh I come out

00:30:10

of the hospital. I'm a big fan of uh NFL

00:30:13

football, which is like the American

00:30:15

football.

00:30:16

>> Oh, yeah. We know, mate. That's what

00:30:18

that's what that's what the the Kelsey

00:30:19

brothers play.

00:30:20

>> Oh, yeah. We know brothers. Yeah. Uh,

00:30:24

and uh, I remember my team, which is the

00:30:28

Raiders, uh, they played Denver, which

00:30:31

is where I was being operated on. And,

00:30:35

uh, my first post off uh, on Facebook

00:30:38

was I was doing the touchdowns symbol,

00:30:41

but with no hands. And I was like, "The

00:30:44

Raiders beat the Denver Broncos." And it

00:30:47

was funny cuz

00:30:49

um I was kind of talking trash is like

00:30:51

one of my other things that I do. So I

00:30:53

was talking trash for to all the Denver

00:30:56

fans without hands and also like

00:30:58

everybody that was looking on Facebook

00:31:00

was like is he playing a joke? Is he

00:31:02

serious? They don't know what is

00:31:04

happening. So uh yeah that was the first

00:31:07

time I laughed. Uh pretty much. Yep.

00:31:10

>> I love that. Yes. It sounds like humor

00:31:12

has been a huge sort of I guess coping

00:31:14

mechanism.

00:31:15

>> Yeah. Uh yeah, if you can look at a

00:31:18

situation and find something to smile

00:31:20

about, it helps a lot and it's able I I

00:31:24

mean I've done studies on resilience and

00:31:26

part of like motivational speaking is

00:31:29

talking about resilience and one of the

00:31:32

things that helps a person's resilience

00:31:34

is to be able to laugh.

00:31:36

>> Uh like it brings um

00:31:39

>> endorphins inside your body that help

00:31:41

you uh be able to overcome difficult

00:31:44

things. Yeah,

00:31:46

>> there's a saying which you may or may

00:31:47

not have heard of, the one that um

00:31:49

comparison is the theft of joy.

00:31:51

>> Oh yeah, definitely.

00:31:52

>> Which is true, but I've also found on

00:31:54

the counter side of that um if you

00:31:56

compare down, you don't have to look

00:31:58

that hard to find someone that is a lot

00:32:00

happier with a lot less.

00:32:01

>> Oh yeah, have you sort of found that

00:32:03

from like groups you've spoken to or

00:32:05

support groups and

00:32:06

>> Yeah. I um what my first time there's

00:32:11

this conference it's called World Burn

00:32:13

Congress and it's put on by Phoenix

00:32:15

Society and it's like people from all

00:32:17

over the world that have been burned. Uh

00:32:19

they come to meet and I remember my

00:32:21

first time going there and I was looking

00:32:23

at uh everyone and there were people

00:32:26

there. I was like I don't know how I

00:32:27

could smile and I see them smiling and I

00:32:30

was like if I if they can smile I can

00:32:33

smile too. Yeah.

00:32:38

Did you ever get depression?

00:32:40

>> Yeah, that that first week I was

00:32:42

definitely depressed. Um, I think like

00:32:46

you said, I'm a person that's

00:32:48

independent. I love to be able to go and

00:32:51

travel uh by myself, not depend on

00:32:55

anyone. And I found myself in a

00:32:57

situation that was like and I was found

00:33:00

myself thinking about I will always need

00:33:03

someone to help me be a caretaker. And

00:33:06

that thought was just uh tremendously

00:33:09

depressing.

00:33:10

>> Yeah.

00:33:11

>> How and how long before you got the um

00:33:13

the mechanical mechanical hands the the

00:33:15

new ones? Uh so

00:33:18

I was in the hospital

00:33:20

um from December to February and January

00:33:26

like the second week of January the man

00:33:28

was there the prostatist

00:33:31

uh he was there fitting me for

00:33:34

prosthetic arms and then like a week

00:33:36

later he brought me prosthetic arms. At

00:33:38

the time, I didn't accept them. Like, I

00:33:41

was dealing with a work injury and the

00:33:44

insurance was bringing me these arms

00:33:46

that didn't look like hands, didn't feel

00:33:49

like hands, didn't when I touch

00:33:51

something, I didn't feel it. And so, I

00:33:54

was not accepting it. I was like, "No,

00:33:56

those aren't those are not acceptable."

00:33:59

>> Uh, I think

00:34:00

>> Go away. Go get some uh something else.

00:34:03

>> More realistic.

00:34:04

>> Go find the Luke Skywalker and bring

00:34:06

those arms back to me. Yeah. So, uh I

00:34:10

think part of overcoming such a

00:34:13

difficult thing is acceptance,

00:34:15

>> accepting the situation you're in,

00:34:17

accepting the tools that are being used

00:34:21

currently at the time uh to do things.

00:34:25

And so once I accepted these arms, I

00:34:28

started uh progressing really fast.

00:34:33

>> Yeah. So that piece of the rehab um like

00:34:36

getting used to these things and train I

00:34:38

guess training them if that's what you

00:34:40

call it. What did that look like?

00:34:42

>> That must have been impossibly difficult

00:34:44

at times.

00:34:45

>> There it you learn patience because

00:34:48

you're dropping things on your lap and

00:34:50

it's almost like the the comparison I

00:34:53

make is like you're being born again.

00:34:56

You're a little baby and you got these

00:34:58

little hands, but we don't remember that

00:35:00

part. We did have to learn how to use

00:35:02

hands, right? uh except for now I'm

00:35:05

getting these new hands and I'm teaching

00:35:07

myself to pick up things and dropping

00:35:09

things on the floor. The only difference

00:35:11

is I can remember it now and so that's

00:35:14

what makes it frustrating.

00:35:15

>> What was the hardest thing to retrain

00:35:17

yourself to do?

00:35:18

>> Uh

00:35:22

I think the hardest thing was for me is

00:35:25

tying a a neck tie. Um

00:35:27

>> Oh man, I can't even do that now.

00:35:29

>> Yeah. So

00:35:30

>> I'm a t-shirt guy as well. I avoid those

00:35:32

things. Can you do it though?

00:35:34

>> Yeah, I can. I can tie a necktie. Um,

00:35:37

and the other thing is like I would

00:35:39

force myself to do hard things. And so

00:35:43

the occupational therapist is like, "Do

00:35:46

what do you want to do?" And I'm like,

00:35:47

"I want to tie a neck tie." And so we

00:35:49

struggled through the necktie thing for

00:35:52

days and days and days. And uh she's

00:35:56

like, "Why don't you just use a zipper

00:35:57

tie?" And I'm like, "Cuz I don't have a

00:35:59

zipper tie and I don't want to. I want

00:36:01

to learn how to tie the tie. But it's

00:36:03

funny now, I just wear zipper ties. I

00:36:06

just wanted to do it because I wanted to

00:36:08

show myself that you can still do those

00:36:11

things. You're not that part of the

00:36:13

world isn't shut off for you.

00:36:16

>> I think that speaks volumes about your

00:36:17

mindset and the sort of person you are.

00:36:19

And I I've I've had a lot of like

00:36:21

incredible people on the podcast that um

00:36:23

would not have described themselves as

00:36:25

like resilient or strong or courageous

00:36:27

before the incident happened in their

00:36:30

lives. And then there's people that just

00:36:31

had it all along and they just sort of

00:36:33

bounced through these adversities. I

00:36:35

feel like you're in the latter group.

00:36:36

>> Mhm.

00:36:37

>> Yeah.

00:36:37

>> Yeah. Well, I've had a difficult um

00:36:40

upbringing. Like when when I was in the

00:36:43

situation, what I did is I looked at all

00:36:46

the hard situations that I went through.

00:36:48

Like we grew up poor. I used to work as

00:36:52

a little kid with my dad and uh you know

00:36:55

my dad he he used corporal punishment.

00:36:59

We got spanked. We got all those things.

00:37:01

And I still managed to graduate from

00:37:04

high school, graduate from college. Uh I

00:37:07

went through a divorce, which was super

00:37:09

hard. And I told myself, if I can do all

00:37:11

those things, I can do this thing. And

00:37:14

uh yeah, that's that's the thing that

00:37:16

helps me the most.

00:37:18

>> Yeah. Well, when was the marriage

00:37:19

breakup? Was that before 2010 or?

00:37:22

>> Yeah, that was 2007.

00:37:25

>> Right. Right. Are you seeing anyone now?

00:37:27

>> Yeah, I'm dating a girl. Yeah.

00:37:29

>> Yeah.

00:37:29

>> Yeah.

00:37:30

>> How did How did you meet?

00:37:32

>> We met online on one of those dating

00:37:34

apps,

00:37:35

>> right? What do you Yeah. What do you

00:37:36

say? I'm curious. What like What do you

00:37:38

say on your your dating profile? Um um

00:37:41

>> I take well I definitely I show pictures

00:37:44

of myself and I also am straightforward

00:37:47

and say I lost my hands in this thing

00:37:49

but I also point out the the positive

00:37:51

part because the if you don't point out

00:37:54

the positive part then uh I think that's

00:37:58

the first thing that sticks in their

00:37:59

mind. So I point out that you know I

00:38:02

lost my hands and uh because of it I

00:38:07

I've shown my resilience and uh that's

00:38:11

what I do is I go around and speak about

00:38:13

it and so I point out the positives of

00:38:15

it not just the negatives.

00:38:18

>> Yeah.

00:38:21

>> I've got so many questions about that. I

00:38:23

don't know what Yeah. Intimacy. Do do

00:38:26

you comfortable talking about that or

00:38:28

not really? Yeah, I can talk about

00:38:29

intimacy like uh uh I don't know

00:38:34

um like what level of intimacy like I've

00:38:37

kissed her uh and I think it's difficult

00:38:41

because you're always comparing yourself

00:38:45

like oh another guy could just put his

00:38:47

hand on the lady's back or

00:38:50

>> on the lady's chin and uh I think it

00:38:53

involves a lot of communication like is

00:38:56

it okay if I touch your leg if or touch

00:38:59

your back or this or that. And sometimes

00:39:02

it's involves me just taking off my

00:39:05

arms. I think being patient is one thing

00:39:08

like

00:39:10

uh usually when I was younger is just

00:39:13

make out and do do the thing real fast,

00:39:16

but uh you have to take your time now.

00:39:19

Sometimes that can be romantic for a

00:39:21

woman.

00:39:22

>> Who would have thought? Who would have

00:39:24

thought? Um, oh, thanks for sharing

00:39:27

that.

00:39:27

>> Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:28

>> Yeah. It's really cool. She must get a

00:39:30

lot of questions, too, from her

00:39:31

girlfriends or from her family.

00:39:32

>> I bet I She doesn't tell them to me.

00:39:36

Well, maybe she does. I'm not very good

00:39:38

at listening, I guess. But, uh, I'm sure

00:39:41

she gets a lot of questions about like

00:39:43

how's he going to take care of himself

00:39:45

or this or that. And I think

00:39:48

>> take care of himself in what in what

00:39:49

way?

00:39:50

uh like when he gets older or or how's

00:39:54

he gonna take care of you like it's a

00:39:56

lot of times uh in society men are

00:40:00

expected to take care of women

00:40:01

financially

00:40:03

>> and uh I think she just focuses on the

00:40:06

positives. Yeah,

00:40:08

>> that's

00:40:09

>> maybe that's something I should talk to

00:40:10

her about.

00:40:11

>> Yeah. Oh, potentially. Yeah.

00:40:12

Communication. Communication. Um I've

00:40:15

heard you say it felt like the walls

00:40:17

were closing in when you returned home.

00:40:18

>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Can you elaborate on

00:40:20

that?

00:40:21

>> So when what I meant by the walls were

00:40:24

it felt like the walls were closing in

00:40:26

was like I was being restrained

00:40:31

uh and no longer able to go out into the

00:40:35

world. Like currently I find myself in

00:40:38

New Zealand but at the moment it was

00:40:40

like I no longer can leave my house at

00:40:44

that moment. Uh, so I think that's what

00:40:48

it it felt like.

00:40:50

>> Yeah. I was no longer able to have

00:40:52

freedom to roam around and and do

00:40:55

everything.

00:40:57

>> But you've pretty much got that back now

00:40:59

15 years on.

00:41:00

>> Yeah, I can do pretty much everything

00:41:01

and travel and go fishing and we're

00:41:05

going fishing out in the ocean. So, uh,

00:41:08

I can do pretty much everything.

00:41:09

>> Do Do you need a rod or can you just

00:41:11

like put a bit of bit of bait on the end

00:41:12

of the

00:41:13

>> Oh, yeah. throw my arms out there.

00:41:17

>> Um, what about um, uh, post-traumatic

00:41:20

stress disorder or Yeah. or nightmares,

00:41:24

anything like that?

00:41:25

>> So, um,

00:41:28

I have never had post-traumatic stress

00:41:32

disorder, but I had post-traumatic

00:41:34

stress depression.

00:41:36

>> Uh, I think, um, because electricity,

00:41:39

you can't really see it. Uh and and also

00:41:43

that it knocked me out. So uh I didn't

00:41:48

experience it almost it's almost if it

00:41:50

happened as if I'm was asleep. Uh but I

00:41:55

did when I got home I did notice that

00:41:58

whenever my sister was cooking meat uh

00:42:01

my my stomach it got uh nauseated. So,

00:42:05

uh, my stomach got sick and that told me

00:42:07

like my brain does remember smelling

00:42:10

cooked flesh and uh, I wasn't trying to

00:42:15

eat any cooked flesh at the time, any

00:42:18

cooked meat. Um, because it just made my

00:42:21

stomach nausea nauseous. Uh, and um,

00:42:27

>> just the brain knows, eh?

00:42:29

>> Yeah. So, here's another thing. Uh

00:42:31

there's a thing called post-traumatic

00:42:33

stress disorder, but there's also

00:42:35

post-traumatic stress growth, and we

00:42:38

talk about it a lot. When something we

00:42:41

talk about a lot at the hospital, when

00:42:43

something bad happens to someone, you

00:42:46

can have post-traumatic stress disorder,

00:42:49

but also there is an opportunity for

00:42:52

post-traumatic stress growth. uh where a

00:42:56

person can learn how to do new things

00:42:59

like navigate this world without hands

00:43:02

or learn how to communicate better or

00:43:05

learn how to have patience. Um because

00:43:08

they're thrown in a situation that is

00:43:11

way outside of their comfort zone. Uh I

00:43:14

don't know uh if your listeners have

00:43:17

been in an uncomfortable situation, but

00:43:21

there is no growth that takes place

00:43:23

inside of your comfort zone. There only

00:43:26

outside of your comfort zone can a

00:43:28

person grow. So yeah,

00:43:33

>> I actually recorded a podcast earlier

00:43:35

this week with um a woman who was a

00:43:37

psychologist for the New Zealand SAS

00:43:39

SAS, which is like our Marines or Navy

00:43:41

Seals,

00:43:43

>> excuse me. She wrote a book called The

00:43:45

Resilience Toolkit. And uh in it, she

00:43:47

sort of said exactly what you said. She

00:43:50

said, you know, people talk about

00:43:51

bouncing back um but she talks about

00:43:53

bouncing forward. She's like instead of

00:43:55

just striving to get get back to where

00:43:57

you were before, like why not strive to

00:44:00

be better?

00:44:00

>> Yeah. Exactly.

00:44:01

>> Which is kind of in a way what you just

00:44:03

said I think.

00:44:04

>> Yep. Exactly. Uh

00:44:06

a lot of times people are like woe is

00:44:09

me. M um but I think what I've learned

00:44:13

is like

00:44:15

instead of say woe is me, oh look at the

00:44:17

opportunity I have to do such and such a

00:44:21

thing or uh speak to these people and

00:44:24

share my story so that if they have

00:44:27

something traumatic happen to them, they

00:44:29

can be inspired or uh learn from my

00:44:33

story. So yeah, I think that's that's

00:44:36

100% of what what I just Yeah, we just

00:44:38

said it in a different way.

00:44:40

>> Yeah. And wo is me is is um perfectly

00:44:43

fine. Like you can you you know if

00:44:45

you're a victim, you're entitled to play

00:44:47

the victim. But how do you you're not

00:44:49

doing yourself any favors by by

00:44:51

remaining in that space? But how someone

00:44:54

that has that sort of victim mindset or

00:44:55

that victim mentality, how can they snap

00:44:58

out of it and move on? Um, I think it's

00:45:01

it's a choice. Like you do have a

00:45:04

certain amount of time to be sad about a

00:45:06

thing. Uh, but if they choose to stay in

00:45:10

that place, then that's on them.

00:45:13

>> I think that uh instead of looking at

00:45:17

the why me, why is this happening to me?

00:45:22

Uh, one thing that can help and one

00:45:24

thing that helped me is look at how you

00:45:27

can help other people. If you can figure

00:45:30

out how to help other people, then it

00:45:32

gets uh the focus off of you and then it

00:45:35

starts focusing on other people and then

00:45:37

you find out, oh wow, look uh life is

00:45:41

not so bad if you can find a way to help

00:45:43

other people.

00:45:45

>> When you dream now, do you do you have

00:45:47

do you have hands or you have the um

00:45:49

prosthetics?

00:45:50

>> Uh immediately after

00:45:54

um when I was released from the

00:45:55

hospital, I did dream with hands. Um,

00:45:59

but it's funny cuz I don't remember very

00:46:02

many of my dreams,

00:46:03

>> but when I do dream, I don't even notice

00:46:06

my hands. So, that's that's pretty wild

00:46:10

to think about.

00:46:13

Yeah, cuz I had a um a tetroplegic on

00:46:16

the podcast um and he read some um

00:46:19

psychological studies and he said when

00:46:20

you

00:46:22

um when he reached the point that he

00:46:23

that he dreamed his life as the reality

00:46:26

is um according to the psychologist that

00:46:28

means he'd accepted it.

00:46:30

>> Oh, that's pretty interesting.

00:46:32

>> That is pretty interesting. Yeah.

00:46:34

>> Yeah.

00:46:34

>> Um who is Jason Koger?

00:46:37

>> Jason Koger, he's my mentor. So when I

00:46:40

was uh coming out of the hospital, I

00:46:44

felt like I was alone. I was the only

00:46:47

double hand amputee. It felt like I was

00:46:49

a pioneer because no one put any videos

00:46:52

out online. No one put any resources out

00:46:55

there. And so I was like, I'm the only

00:46:57

one. Uh, however, I was able to talk

00:47:02

about it on my Facebook or on my social

00:47:04

media and uh, people reached out to me

00:47:07

and said, "Hey, you want me to put you

00:47:09

in contact with a guy that's almost the

00:47:12

same level of amputations?" I was like,

00:47:14

"Yeah, I do. I accept that." And uh,

00:47:17

that was Jason Koger that he they put me

00:47:20

in contact with. And I called him on the

00:47:23

phone and he was like, "Hey, this is how

00:47:26

you do this. This is how you do that."

00:47:27

He explained to me how to do a couple

00:47:29

things and then he even like you can

00:47:31

come over to my house and live with me

00:47:33

for a week and then find out how I do

00:47:35

things. I was like wow what a nice guy

00:47:38

uh to uh you know share his whole life

00:47:42

with me. Uh at the time I was like uh no

00:47:46

that's okay. I don't like I don't even

00:47:48

know you man. But

00:47:51

but I I am so grateful for encountering

00:47:54

Jason Koger because he helped me so

00:47:56

much. And like every time we meet, it's

00:47:59

like we're two peas in a pod. We laugh

00:48:01

and and have a good time.

00:48:05

>> In hindsight, is that the first time you

00:48:06

felt truly truly understood?

00:48:09

>> Yeah. uh like I my brother understands

00:48:13

me to a certain level but he doesn't

00:48:16

have he still has one hand that he can

00:48:18

use and so when I was able to talk to

00:48:21

Jason I was like oh this guy knows

00:48:23

exactly what I'm going to go through.

00:48:25

Yeah.

00:48:26

>> And those first few outings

00:48:29

what are they like? Are you super

00:48:31

self-conscious? Are you aware that

00:48:32

people are steering?

00:48:34

>> No. Actually, what I was when I first

00:48:38

went to the grocery store with my mom

00:48:39

and sister, I was like worried about how

00:48:43

long this is taking. And uh I think for

00:48:47

me to do something efficiently and go in

00:48:52

the grocery store, get done, go home.

00:48:54

That's what was what mattered to me at

00:48:56

that time. And I was this is like a like

00:49:00

a man's style of thinking. uh get it

00:49:04

done and go home. But it was taking so

00:49:06

long. I was like, "Man, this is taking

00:49:08

too long." And I just was mad after that

00:49:11

and I wanted to go home. Yeah.

00:49:13

>> Oh, bro. I I can relate. I'm like, I'm

00:49:15

so impatient.

00:49:16

>> Yeah.

00:49:16

>> That would be the thing that annoys the

00:49:18

crap out of me.

00:49:19

>> Yeah.

00:49:20

>> Um Yeah. How long How long did it take

00:49:22

until you felt completely confident to

00:49:24

leave the house again? And um so after I

00:49:27

talked to Jason and I started to figure

00:49:29

out how to do things, uh

00:49:33

people were still contacting me about

00:49:35

something I used to do, which was go do

00:49:38

video and edit video and they were

00:49:41

contacting me to go shoot a rugby game

00:49:45

that was in San Diego. And so that was

00:49:49

in March. So from February to March, I

00:49:52

felt confident enough to fly on an

00:49:54

airplane, rent a car, go shoot this

00:49:57

these guys rugby game and edit it. So it

00:50:00

was pretty fast.

00:50:02

>> So March 2011, so 3 months after the

00:50:04

Wow. Okay.

00:50:06

>> Mhm.

00:50:07

>> Jeez.

00:50:08

>> I sort of imagine you sitting at home

00:50:10

watching Wipe Out in the middle of the

00:50:11

night for like a couple of years. Wow.

00:50:14

>> It was just a week that I was watching

00:50:16

Wipe Out. Yeah,

00:50:17

>> bro. This is so a week. Yeah,

00:50:19

>> this is so inspiring.

00:50:20

>> Yeah,

00:50:21

>> that's really cool.

00:50:23

>> Thank you.

00:50:23

>> [ __ ] Are you proud of yourself?

00:50:24

>> Oh, yeah. Uh, the more I look at what

00:50:28

happened from from now to then, the more

00:50:32

prouder I get of myself. Yeah.

00:50:35

>> Yeah. Can you believe it?

00:50:36

>> No. It seems unreal. Like when I when I

00:50:39

was coming to New Zealand, I was like,

00:50:41

"This is crazy." Um, it's like my

00:50:44

15-year anniversary of my amputations

00:50:48

and here I am going to New Zealand.

00:50:50

Like, I never would have imagined that

00:50:53

from the hospital bed. Never. Ever.

00:50:57

>> When you do something like board a plane

00:50:59

and there's like, you know, hundreds of

00:51:00

people around you, but are you aware

00:51:03

that people are looking or are people

00:51:05

are people not really looking?

00:51:07

>> It depends. Like I think when I get in

00:51:11

that headsp space where I'm worried

00:51:12

about what people are thinking, it's

00:51:15

like now you're looking at everyone and

00:51:18

going, you're throwing knives with your

00:51:20

eyeballs. Stop staring at me. I think

00:51:23

when I'm in the head space of I don't

00:51:25

care what other people think.

00:51:27

>> That's the more healthier head space to

00:51:30

be in. Like

00:51:32

>> the it it doesn't matter what everyone

00:51:35

else is thinking. um what everyone else

00:51:38

is thinking is their own business, you

00:51:41

know, so just mind your own business. Uh

00:51:45

you just worry about what you got to do.

00:51:47

You know what I'm saying?

00:51:48

>> Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you're

00:51:49

saying. I love that. And you ended up um

00:51:50

on the the Jumbotron, the Giant screen

00:51:53

at an NBA game.

00:51:54

>> Yeah.

00:51:54

>> Utah Jazz.

00:51:55

>> Yeah, that was one of the um moments

00:51:59

like Utah Jazz. I was watching the Utah

00:52:01

Jazz and I had actually worked in the

00:52:04

Jumbotron office and so people in the

00:52:06

Jumbotron knew me. Um, and I posted that

00:52:09

I'm going to a game and they were able

00:52:12

to find me in the audience and saw me

00:52:15

cheering for the Jazz and I was on the

00:52:17

Jumbotron and it made me feel like, oh,

00:52:20

this feels good. This feels like what it

00:52:22

used to feel like. And that's what

00:52:24

helped me to continue going. Like it's

00:52:27

when you focus on what's good that's

00:52:29

happening in your life that you're going

00:52:31

to repeat the thing and then you'll find

00:52:34

out. Uh my psychologist explained it

00:52:37

like this. If you get in um this it's

00:52:42

kind of shaped like an hourglass. If you

00:52:45

start getting depressed, it's just going

00:52:47

to take you down further and further and

00:52:49

further. But the inverse can happen. If

00:52:52

you if something good happens and makes

00:52:54

you feel good, you're going to keep

00:52:56

doing more things that make you feel

00:52:58

better and better and it spirals

00:53:00

upwards. So, it's like a hurricane that

00:53:04

takes you upward.

00:53:05

>> So, you can either choose to go down in

00:53:07

the bottom or you can choose to go up.

00:53:10

>> Did Did you Yeah. You mentioned a

00:53:11

psychologist then. Did you have much

00:53:13

therapy? Yeah, I I used to meet with the

00:53:16

the psychologist every week and I also

00:53:19

would go to group meeting for burn

00:53:21

survivors and uh that helped me out a

00:53:24

lot. I think one thing that

00:53:28

I had to be willing to do is try new

00:53:31

things. And for me, a psychologist was

00:53:33

like, I don't want no psychologist

00:53:36

getting inside my head. But at the

00:53:38

moment I was like I I'm I'm willing to

00:53:41

try anything to get better, you know?

00:53:44

And so that's that's what happened is

00:53:46

like I'm willing to try anything. Go

00:53:48

ahead, do it. And then see what happens.

00:53:50

>> Yeah. Is is there anything in life

00:53:52

that's better now than what it was

00:53:54

beforehand, physically or mentally?

00:53:57

>> It's it's crazy cuz I'm going to talk

00:53:59

about basketball right now. Like

00:54:01

basketball when I had hands, I was

00:54:04

really good. like I could drive in

00:54:06

between five guys, dribble behind my

00:54:08

back, do this all kinds of stuff. Uh

00:54:11

double pump and and uh even at one time

00:54:15

in my life, I could dunk it. And

00:54:17

basketball was enjoyable then, but I

00:54:20

find that basketball now is more

00:54:24

enjoyable in a mental way. like uh being

00:54:28

able to score baskets with no hands is

00:54:33

challenging. And it's challenging in a

00:54:36

way that feels like, oh, you did

00:54:39

actually you did better than you would

00:54:42

have with hands because

00:54:45

the overcoming the mental obstacle. And

00:54:48

so it's like more fruitful or more um

00:54:53

more of uh

00:54:57

>> uh

00:54:59

you feel like you accomplished more.

00:55:01

>> More rewarding.

00:55:02

>> Yeah, rewarding is the word I was

00:55:03

searching for.

00:55:04

>> And have I got my the internet may have

00:55:06

steered me wrong. Um but did you

00:55:09

audition for Hawaii 5 for

00:55:11

>> Oh, no. That's uh I did audition for

00:55:14

Hawaii 5. And it's funny cuz Jason Koker

00:55:17

also auditioned for Hawaii 5.

00:55:19

>> So the character was um a hand double of

00:55:22

um of a bad guy.

00:55:23

>> Yeah. Yeah. Guess who got that?

00:55:26

>> Who?

00:55:26

>> Jason.

00:55:27

>> Oh, did he? Yeah.

00:55:28

>> Did he?

00:55:29

>> Jason got that job. Yeah.

00:55:30

>> How did they decide what what what set

00:55:32

him apart from you? So what happened was

00:55:34

is Jason is is a is a Caucasian guy and

00:55:38

the bad guy is Caucasian and they looked

00:55:41

at my arms and they were like we can't

00:55:42

have a tan arms on a Caucasian guy. So I

00:55:46

didn't get that part but I did get a

00:55:48

couple of other parts in other TV shows

00:55:50

and it's always like a dead Hispanic guy

00:55:53

that lost his arms.

00:55:57

>> So only non-speaking roles until

00:56:00

>> just a dead guy in the background. Yeah.

00:56:02

>> Yeah. Oh wow. What a good experience

00:56:03

though.

00:56:04

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was on American Horror

00:56:06

Story, one of them is uh and I'm laying

00:56:08

there as a dead guy and the camera just

00:56:10

goes right in front of me. It was it was

00:56:13

pretty awesome.

00:56:13

>> Wow.

00:56:14

>> Yeah.

00:56:14

>> Um and the social media stuff. Yeah. Was

00:56:19

it was that a difficult decision to

00:56:20

share or No, like you mentioned before

00:56:22

you had a background in video editing

00:56:24

and stuff, so I I guess in a way it was

00:56:26

like a natural transition.

00:56:27

>> Yeah. I feel like um social media was

00:56:31

not hard for me to do cuz I like to, you

00:56:34

know, live my life in front of everyone

00:56:37

cuz I don't have anything to hide. But

00:56:39

at the same time, I did create this

00:56:42

moniker of no-handed bandit. And the

00:56:45

reason why I was like I feel like I

00:56:48

didn't want to get the knives and that

00:56:50

guy could take it whereas Samana would

00:56:53

just hide in the background and let this

00:56:56

no-handed bandit character take all the

00:56:59

knives. It's similar to like Batman,

00:57:01

like he makes up this identity that

00:57:04

takes all the the difficult parts and uh

00:57:09

and then he has the Bruce Wayne part

00:57:11

that's

00:57:12

>> uh alone in his house taking care of

00:57:14

himself.

00:57:15

>> I take all the knives as an

00:57:18

>> uh like people when you put yourself out

00:57:21

there, people will criticize you like

00:57:23

say, "Oh, that's not how you do it if

00:57:26

you have hooks." This is a better way.

00:57:28

And I think by making this alternate

00:57:32

identity then I was able to find the

00:57:34

courage to say hey this is how I do it

00:57:37

you know

00:57:37

>> like an alter ego.

00:57:38

>> Yeah.

00:57:39

>> Yeah. Well um you know Kobe Bryant.

00:57:41

>> Yeah. So he mumba mentality.

00:57:44

>> Yeah. Black Mamba. Black Mamba. He's

00:57:45

like oh yeah you want to

00:57:46

>> Yeah. It's something he created. So

00:57:48

Black Mamba was the guy on the court

00:57:51

>> and Kobe Bryant was the guy off the

00:57:53

court. He flipped into this um Yeah.

00:57:55

Mamba mentality.

00:57:56

>> Mhm.

00:57:56

>> Yeah. Um, what's the most meaningful uh

00:57:59

message or comment, you know, you've

00:58:01

received on social media?

00:58:03

>> Uh, anything that stands out?

00:58:05

>> So, just the personal thank yous. Um, a

00:58:09

lot of times they'll reach out to me,

00:58:10

another amputee, and say, "Thank you for

00:58:13

making that video." Like more recently,

00:58:15

like when I first got here to New

00:58:18

Zealand, a guy reached out to me and he

00:58:20

said, "How do you put on a jacket? It's

00:58:22

getting cold over here." And I was like,

00:58:24

"Oh, this guy needs to find out how to

00:58:26

put on a jacket." I made a video

00:58:28

immediately in my hotel room and posted

00:58:31

it. And uh the guy, he had looked at

00:58:35

another guy's video and the other guy's

00:58:38

name Billy P. Uh but his amputations are

00:58:42

different. And so whatever way he put on

00:58:44

the coat, he said, "I can't do it that

00:58:46

way." And so I made my video and then he

00:58:49

reached out to me yesterday and said,

00:58:52

"Thank you for making that video." But

00:58:54

he also wanted to set me up with his

00:58:56

daughter at the same time.

00:59:00

>> Oh, what happens in New Zealand stays in

00:59:02

New Zealand, isn't that?

00:59:05

Um, yeah. Well, that's really cool.

00:59:07

What's been the most successful video

00:59:08

you've done so far? Um, so a lot of the

00:59:13

the more views are talking about shoes

00:59:16

that you don't have to tie the laces.

00:59:19

And I think that's because

00:59:22

>> sometimes when you fight for something

00:59:24

to change, like for example, those

00:59:26

buttons that the door opens

00:59:28

automatically, it not only helps the

00:59:31

people that have no hands, but it helps

00:59:34

people that are in wheelchairs. And so I

00:59:36

think talking about shoes that people

00:59:39

don't have to use laces,

00:59:41

>> the old people can benefit from it. Um,

00:59:45

people that have hurt backs that can't

00:59:47

bend over can benefit. So it's the shoes

00:59:50

video that's uh has the most views, but

00:59:53

the most impactful one is like talking

00:59:55

about going to the toilet and wiping

00:59:58

your bottom. Like that one has like

01:00:00

8,000 views. And it's because men when

01:00:04

they're faced with occupational

01:00:06

therapist, that's a question they don't

01:00:08

want to ask to the lady. How do I wipe

01:00:11

my bottom? Uh they want to talk to

01:00:13

somebody that that is a double hand

01:00:15

ampute and they won't say it and they'll

01:00:18

just search it on YouTube, you know?

01:00:20

>> Yeah. There's like I mean there's a

01:00:23

there there's a sense of mourning from

01:00:24

losing your independence, but also

01:00:25

there's like I suppose a sense of shame

01:00:27

or embarrassment. Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:29

>> How do you How do you wipe your butt?

01:00:31

>> So it's I

01:00:33

>> very carefully.

01:00:34

>> Yeah. Very carefully.

01:00:37

Uh, so I just, so this is the thing that

01:00:41

Jason Koger taught me is like you want

01:00:43

to make sure the hook is pointing up and

01:00:46

the the flex the wrist and then you'll

01:00:49

pick up the toilet paper like this and

01:00:52

then you'll turn it this way and then go

01:00:55

back there um and wipe your bottom and

01:00:58

then turn it and drop it into the

01:01:02

toilet. Yeah.

01:01:03

>> Oh, and you've been to Ukraine recently.

01:01:05

>> Yeah.

01:01:06

>> Yeah. How did how did that come about?

01:01:08

>> So, a nonprofit organization that uh

01:01:11

works with Ukrainian uh soldiers, they

01:01:14

contacted the this other nonprofit

01:01:16

organization in in uh United States and

01:01:20

they said, "We want to have a conference

01:01:22

where

01:01:24

you have people that come and

01:01:26

demonstrate how to do this because

01:01:28

they're they're they're losing a lot of

01:01:30

limbs out there in Ukraine." And uh and

01:01:33

then the lady reached out to me and she

01:01:35

said, "Would you go to Ukraine? Do you

01:01:37

have a passport?" And I was like, "Yeah,

01:01:38

I'll go to Ukraine." Um and yeah, that

01:01:42

was a a really eyeopening experience to

01:01:46

see uh how they're living over there and

01:01:49

how war changes things and how um their

01:01:53

men are coping with losing their limbs.

01:01:57

Yep.

01:01:57

>> Yeah. What were your greatest takeaways

01:01:59

from Ukraine? Uh, I think my greatest

01:02:01

takeaway was um

01:02:05

those people or Ukrainian people,

01:02:09

they're just like us. Um, and the only

01:02:13

thing they they want is just to be able

01:02:15

to take care of themselves. Just like uh

01:02:18

we're me and you are both fiercely

01:02:20

independent. There's men over there that

01:02:22

are losing their hands that are fiercely

01:02:24

independent. And uh I think uh I think

01:02:29

everyone

01:02:32

you know is in search of taking care of

01:02:36

their family um taking care of

01:02:38

themselves and if they can learn that

01:02:42

then they will be happy people. And it's

01:02:45

funny cuz they were looking at us

01:02:48

Americans when we first got there and

01:02:51

they weren't able to talk English. uh

01:02:54

they talked to each other, but they were

01:02:56

looking at us like, "Hey, that guy's

01:02:59

cheating. I don't know what he's doing,

01:03:00

but he's able to do everything I can't."

01:03:03

>> And uh

01:03:05

>> and then I taught them all the little

01:03:07

tricks. And then in the end, they spoke

01:03:09

in a little bit of broken English and

01:03:12

said, "Hey, when I first saw you, I

01:03:14

thought you were cheating, but now that

01:03:16

I know uh how to do it, I'm so

01:03:19

appreciative." And I think that's just

01:03:22

everyone's quest is to take care of

01:03:24

themselves, you know.

01:03:25

>> Yeah. Well, I I suppose it's like the

01:03:27

impact Jason had on you. It's just

01:03:29

showing you what is possible.

01:03:30

>> Yeah. Exactly. Uh I think the other

01:03:33

thing is like marketing is crazy cuz

01:03:35

marketing will sell you those robot

01:03:37

hands, but uh a lot of times those robot

01:03:40

hands for a double hand ampute aren't

01:03:43

the most functional thing. And so I

01:03:45

think a lot of what's going on over

01:03:47

there is they're falling for those

01:03:50

marketing and rather than make uh these

01:03:54

hooks with cabled driven system, they're

01:03:57

going with those robot hands and finding

01:04:00

out this is hard. Um I have to be super

01:04:04

patient and I can't you can't pick up

01:04:07

credit cards or coins off the ground. So

01:04:10

yeah.

01:04:12

Do you hope there's um I mean on the big

01:04:14

scheme of things, you're still

01:04:15

relatively young, right? In your late

01:04:17

40s. Do do you hope that with AI or

01:04:20

whatever advancements come along, things

01:04:21

will get um better or improvements will

01:04:24

be made or are you at peace if this is

01:04:26

as good as it gets?

01:04:27

>> Uh I always hope that there will be a

01:04:30

Luke Skywalker hand. I you know that

01:04:32

that's just the dream. Uh or a Winter

01:04:35

Soldier guy arm. Um, but the other thing

01:04:38

is that uh I at the same time while

01:04:41

hoping, you can't just sit there and

01:04:44

hope for it. You have to be able to go

01:04:46

out and and uh function in life. So, uh

01:04:50

I'm content where I'm at, but I'm with

01:04:52

the hopeful uh hopeful attitude of

01:04:57

technology progressing along.

01:04:59

>> Yeah, it's a good space to be playing

01:05:00

in. And it's um it's a life of service

01:05:02

now. way. Like you mentioned Ukraine

01:05:04

just before and you're here in New

01:05:05

Zealand with um the burn support crew.

01:05:08

>> Yeah. How did that come about?

01:05:10

>> Yeah. Uh we were in uh that world burn

01:05:13

congress and I met Michelle Henry from

01:05:16

burn support group charitable trust and

01:05:18

uh she says you want to come to the

01:05:20

men's retreat uh virtually and that was

01:05:24

in

01:05:26

20 last year 2024. And so I virtually

01:05:30

tuned in to the men's support group and

01:05:33

then uh she messaged me after you want

01:05:36

to come in person and I was like yeah

01:05:38

I'll come in person and she brought it

01:05:40

before the board and they they approved

01:05:43

that uh I should come and they were able

01:05:46

to fund my my flight and take care of my

01:05:49

uh lodging and so I'm happy to be here

01:05:52

to help other other double hand amputees

01:05:55

and even other burn survivors.

01:05:57

>> Yeah. By the time this podcast comes out

01:05:59

in early 2026, um you'll be back home.

01:06:03

Um the men's retreat will be over. What

01:06:05

are you expecting from it? Like who's

01:06:06

going to be there? What do they hope

01:06:09

what do you hope they can get from you?

01:06:11

>> Uh well, that's the that's a good

01:06:14

question. Uh I always when I'm looking

01:06:16

at the Burns burn community, I bring my

01:06:21

full uh presence there, but I'm not

01:06:25

looking what I can give to them. I'm

01:06:27

looking what I can learn from them.

01:06:30

>> And so it's it's not a good space when

01:06:34

you're saying I'm the guy that teach you

01:06:36

guys something. It's more the better

01:06:39

place to be is what can I learn from

01:06:41

these guys? And then if you all in that

01:06:43

same headsp space, you all teach each

01:06:45

other uh different things. Uh for

01:06:48

example, I was one of the things I like

01:06:50

to do is drink cava. And yesterday we

01:06:53

had a little get together and there was

01:06:55

a Fijian gentleman and me and him, he's

01:06:58

a burn survivor, too. Um and he has

01:07:01

facial scarring and and things like

01:07:03

that. But just to be together and

01:07:06

drinking kava and telling stories, it it

01:07:09

feels like things are normal again or

01:07:12

the new normal. And so I think that's

01:07:15

the thing that I hope all of us can

01:07:18

learn is like the new normal is not so

01:07:21

bad.

01:07:22

>> Yeah.

01:07:23

>> Do you actually like hava?

01:07:25

>> I do like hava.

01:07:27

>> Do you like do you like the taste or the

01:07:29

feeling?

01:07:29

>> No. No. The taste is No. Uh yeah, I

01:07:32

don't like the taste, but there's some

01:07:34

cavos that's less uh they don't bite you

01:07:37

as hard, but yeah.

01:07:39

>> Well, I I quite like it. E, just the

01:07:41

that that tingling of the lips after the

01:07:43

second cup. It's not bad.

01:07:44

>> What What's it like meeting survivors

01:07:46

who um you know are exactly where you

01:07:48

were in 2010?

01:07:50

>> Um I always am inspired by other

01:07:54

survivors. Uh it it grounds me cuz

01:07:59

sometimes you could get to a place and

01:08:02

forget where you came from and forget

01:08:04

all the lessons you learned. But when I

01:08:06

meet someone that was like me in 2010,

01:08:09

I'm like, oh yeah, I remember

01:08:11

>> being in that situation.

01:08:13

>> And and then it it helps me feel like,

01:08:16

dang, I'm pretty pretty resilient from

01:08:20

getting to there to where I'm at. Uh,

01:08:23

and it helps me stay grounded.

01:08:25

>> In fact, I did meet another burn

01:08:27

survivor here that's in the same

01:08:29

situation I was at. And I was able to

01:08:32

talk to him and say, "Hey, I was in that

01:08:34

same situation. Uh, you can you you can

01:08:38

do it. You just got to practice. You

01:08:40

know,

01:08:41

>> don't be afraid to come outside of your

01:08:43

house."

01:08:44

>> That's so powerful.

01:08:46

>> Like the probably the beacon of hope

01:08:47

someone needs at that moment in their

01:08:49

life.

01:08:49

>> Yeah.

01:08:50

>> Yeah. What would you whether it's a a

01:08:52

burn accident, an amputation, or

01:08:54

something completely different, what

01:08:55

would you tell someone who's in the

01:08:56

first week or month after a

01:08:58

life-changing event?

01:09:00

>> Um,

01:09:03

I would say

01:09:07

I I think

01:09:09

I don't want to tell them what to do,

01:09:11

but I do share your story is what I

01:09:13

would tell them. Share your story

01:09:15

because the more you share your story,

01:09:18

the more stronger you'll get. and and

01:09:20

then by telling them to share their

01:09:23

story, I'm allowed to share my story.

01:09:26

And so sharing my story with them is

01:09:28

probably the most important thing I can

01:09:30

do.

01:09:31

>> Uh I don't want to tell anyone what to

01:09:34

do. It's when you visit someone in the

01:09:36

hospital, that's like the last thing

01:09:38

they want to hear is like, "Hey, you

01:09:40

should do this." It's more of, hey, I

01:09:44

used to be in the hospital just like

01:09:46

you're in right now and this is what I

01:09:49

did. Um, you can choose to do what I did

01:09:52

or you can choose to do whatever, but uh

01:09:56

that's the most important thing I can do

01:09:58

is share what I did.

01:10:00

>> And what advice would you give family or

01:10:02

friends supporting someone through an

01:10:05

amputation or a burn?

01:10:06

>> Um, there's a couple things. one is

01:10:09

they're still the same person.

01:10:11

>> Yeah.

01:10:12

>> Yeah. And I think sometimes when a

01:10:14

family member sees their their family

01:10:16

member uh as a burn survivor or a double

01:10:21

hand amputee or any amputee, they're

01:10:24

like, "Oh, poor thing is no longer

01:10:26

there." And uh I think the worst thing

01:10:29

was I had a friend that come and visit

01:10:31

me in the hospital and they were crying.

01:10:34

Uh they were crying like I died. I'm I'm

01:10:37

like I'm still here right in front of

01:10:38

your face. I'm still the same person. So

01:10:41

if they can treat them like the same

01:10:43

person that they were before the

01:10:45

accident, then they'll feel like the

01:10:46

same person. And then uh the other thing

01:10:49

is don't be too

01:10:53

babying them too much.

01:10:55

>> Mhm.

01:10:55

>> Cuz they need to

01:10:58

experience struggle. Even though they

01:11:00

might be in pain, experiencing struggle

01:11:03

will help them in the future.

01:11:07

Did you were there any books or

01:11:09

resources that you found particularly

01:11:10

helpful?

01:11:11

>> It's funny that you you talked about the

01:11:13

movie Shaw Shank Redemption.

01:11:15

>> Yeah, it's a great movie. Tim's Morgan

01:11:17

Freeman. So, one time uh I was just

01:11:21

after the Super Bowl in 2011

01:11:26

and uh my neighbor came and accused me

01:11:29

of hitting their car that was parked

01:11:32

outside. And at the time, I hadn't

01:11:34

driven my car at all. And so, I was so

01:11:38

mad that I was accused of being doing

01:11:41

something that I never did that I was

01:11:43

like, "How can I drive my car?" And I

01:11:45

threw my arms down with these arms and

01:11:48

like bent my hook on the the concrete

01:11:51

and my sister was like she saw me like

01:11:55

freaking out. And then when I came back

01:11:57

inside, I was like crying because I lost

01:12:00

control and and feeling remorse for

01:12:03

yelling at the guy for accusing me of

01:12:05

doing something. She sat me down and

01:12:07

watched the Sha Shank Redemption. And

01:12:10

that was one that was like one of the

01:12:14

more impactful things that she helped me

01:12:17

through was by showing me Sha Shank

01:12:20

Redemption. You can't lose hope. That's

01:12:22

the thing

01:12:23

>> is hope is so important.

01:12:26

>> Hope for like a brighter future. M

01:12:28

>> and I think

01:12:32

we're in these

01:12:34

struggles that are in a dark place, but

01:12:37

the number one thing to do is not stand

01:12:40

still. You got to take at least one step

01:12:42

forward.

01:12:43

>> And then when you get through with that

01:12:44

step, take another step.

01:12:46

>> And even though it's really dark, you'll

01:12:49

start to see a little speck of light and

01:12:51

keep going towards that light.

01:12:54

>> Sam, that's so powerful. Um, yeah. Do

01:12:58

you lose your call very often? Like that

01:12:59

incident in 2011? You you I mean, we've

01:13:01

been sitting down for an hour and a

01:13:02

quarter. You seem like a real

01:13:04

>> real levelheaded even sort of dude.

01:13:07

>> I can't imagine you getting two up or

01:13:09

two down.

01:13:09

>> Yeah. It's funny cuz uh my uh uh friend

01:13:13

that I play basketball with every week,

01:13:15

he was like, "Man, Sam, you were a

01:13:17

hotthead back in the day." And so I did

01:13:20

I did lose my cool when I uh before um

01:13:23

but he was talking about before I lost

01:13:26

my hands like I would fight lots of

01:13:28

people at the basketball court and uh

01:13:32

the more time passes the less of that

01:13:35

hothead Sam you'll see. Yeah.

01:13:38

>> I can't say it's like a switch that I

01:13:40

turn off and on but

01:13:42

>> slowly dims out.

01:13:44

And finally, what's the message you want

01:13:46

the world to take away from your story?

01:13:49

>> Um, I think uh the message is just that

01:13:52

message of hope. Um, if you're in a dark

01:13:55

place, the most important thing to do is

01:13:58

step one step at a time and and then

01:14:01

when you start seeing the light, uh,

01:14:04

just keep walking towards that light.

01:14:05

And it might take a long time. Like for

01:14:08

me,

01:14:10

um I'm just barely starting to to come

01:14:14

out of the tunnel.

01:14:16

But the thing that I didn't do was just

01:14:19

stop and sit there

01:14:21

>> and wait for the light to come to me

01:14:22

because it's not going to come to you.

01:14:24

You got to go do the work.

01:14:27

>> Yeah, that's the thing with anything in

01:14:28

life. Hey, no one's no one's no one's

01:14:30

coming to save you. I think it's a quote

01:14:32

from like Mel Robbins. It comes up on my

01:14:34

TikTok all the time. No one's coming to

01:14:35

save you. No one's coming to make you do

01:14:38

the thing. No one's coming to write the

01:14:39

business plan. Like anything that you

01:14:41

want, you got to do it.

01:14:42

>> That's right.

01:14:43

>> And you're a shining example of that,

01:14:44

mate. It's wonder it's been wonderful to

01:14:46

connect. It's been really cool.

01:14:47

>> Thank you so much.

01:14:48

>> Thank you so much for coming on the

01:14:50

podcast. Enjoy your time in New Zealand.

01:14:51

And um yeah, hopefully um people have

01:14:55

been inspired by this podcast and they

01:14:56

follow you on the social channels. Uh

01:14:58

the no-handed Bandit Sam Moana.

01:15:01

>> Yeah. Thank you. Cheers, brother.

01:15:02

Cheers.

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