00:00:00
You went for the CEO role twice.
00:00:02
>> I lost. I hate losing. And one of them
00:00:04
got sick of me asking and he just said,
00:00:05
"Chris, they did not choose you." That's
00:00:07
the answer. So, stop looking for it.
00:00:08
>> Did you have imposter syndrome?
00:00:10
>> Some days you go, there's quite a big
00:00:11
call to make here. Our stores were
00:00:12
getting attacked by groups of people
00:00:14
going Armageddon's coming.
00:00:15
>> Were you getting regular phone calls
00:00:16
from um Dame Justindra?
00:00:18
>> Never met or spoken to Justindra Adun.
00:00:20
>> Really?
00:00:21
>> Would it have been valuable? I think so.
00:00:22
Someone else was not off mute and went
00:00:24
for [ __ ] sake really loudly. And you've
00:00:26
never had thousand people laughing on an
00:00:28
audio call. It was the stress reliever
00:00:30
that everyone needed. My dad said, "If
00:00:31
you pass a drunk in the street and they
00:00:33
say you're ugly, are you ugly or are
00:00:35
they just drunk?"
00:00:35
>> Are you proud of yourself?
00:00:36
>> Struggle with the word, that line
00:00:38
between pride and arrogance. If anyone
00:00:39
ever said to me, "You're arrogant," I'd
00:00:40
be really upset.
00:00:41
>> When the time comes that you pass away,
00:00:43
what three words would you like family
00:00:44
to say about you?
00:00:45
>> Being a good parent, being someone who
00:00:47
cared about people, someone who did okay
00:00:49
in life, and then use that to do well
00:00:51
for others.
00:00:55
>> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:57
the center of performance. Whenever
00:00:59
there's a top performance in New
00:01:00
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:01:02
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:01:04
for days. That's the boys who got the
00:01:06
hole in one in
00:01:09
it again. Hey Finn, how's the
00:01:11
performance going?
00:01:12
>> Top tier.
00:01:13
>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:01:15
here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:16
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
00:01:18
investments. Get in there, Finn.
00:01:21
>> Maximize. Generate.
00:01:23
>> Putting performance first.
00:01:24
>> Chris Quinn, welcome to my podcast.
00:01:26
Thank you, Kora. It's great to be here.
00:01:28
This will be fascinating.
00:01:29
>> Will it Why will it be fascinating?
00:01:31
>> Well, I've been listening to a few and
00:01:33
you know, as I said to you, I'm not sure
00:01:34
all these famous people have been here,
00:01:36
so I'm fascinated by this and what the
00:01:38
questions will be.
00:01:39
>> Oh, no. Well, it's an honor to have you
00:01:40
here. Um CEO of Food Stuff's new um
00:01:43
North Island. That's right.
00:01:45
>> North Island.
00:01:45
>> North Island.
00:01:46
>> Uh 10 billion in turnover, 24,000 staff,
00:01:49
400 plus stores. If Do you know exactly
00:01:53
how many stores there are of each brand?
00:01:55
>> Yes. Yeah.
00:01:55
>> Okay. New World.
00:01:56
>> New World. There is 156.
00:02:00
>> Should be 157, mate. I live just around
00:02:02
the corner. The whole team want to know
00:02:03
when is the rebuild happening?
00:02:05
>> Uh the rebuild of Vic Park. Yes. Look,
00:02:06
what a tragedy that was. Um I was in a
00:02:09
building in town on the day and man. Um
00:02:12
saw the smoke rising and you think,
00:02:13
"What is going on there?" And then your
00:02:14
phone goes nuts and it's all on. Um so
00:02:16
so incredibly sad because there's so
00:02:18
many people I meet who go, "That was my
00:02:20
pantry. That was my place." Um so we're
00:02:23
well into design. sites cleared. We're
00:02:25
building at six-star green, which means
00:02:27
there's a few processes you need to make
00:02:28
sure everything's cleaned up and done
00:02:29
properly. Um I really really hope
00:02:32
Christmas 27 that we'll be open and
00:02:35
trading.
00:02:35
>> Yeah.
00:02:35
>> Yeah.
00:02:36
>> Um and yeah, it was my It's funny that
00:02:39
you say it's um people call it the
00:02:40
pantry cuz I live in the apartments just
00:02:42
next to it. And um it's a people in the
00:02:44
building call it either the pantry or
00:02:45
the wine fridge.
00:02:47
>> Yes.
00:02:48
>> Um but I I want to know Yeah. Did all
00:02:50
the staff there that wanted jobs find
00:02:52
jobs elsewhere in the company?
00:02:53
>> Yeah. Look, it took a little while. Um,
00:02:55
but we basically were able to land a
00:02:57
plan for everybody. So lucky that Point
00:02:59
Chevier was well underway in terms of
00:03:01
the build. So the timing of getting the
00:03:03
team in there was just really good luck.
00:03:06
But that's the thing about the co-op,
00:03:07
you know, with all the individually
00:03:08
family-owned stores is they all went,
00:03:11
can we help? And look, I need a butcher,
00:03:13
a baker, I could do with another
00:03:14
checkout person, whatever it was.
00:03:16
>> And they just pitched in. And we work
00:03:19
out of the people team in the center
00:03:21
working with the stores. and we managed
00:03:22
to land a plan. There was a few for whom
00:03:24
look you know that site doesn't work for
00:03:26
where I live or that shift doesn't you
00:03:28
know so there was always a little bit of
00:03:29
complexity but you know I'm really proud
00:03:31
of how the cooperative got together and
00:03:33
made that happen.
00:03:35
>> You got you got 24,000 staff um sort of
00:03:38
um under you and the company some I
00:03:40
don't know if you know specifics but
00:03:41
Karen who was the barista there you
00:03:42
don't know what happened to her.
00:03:44
>> I don't know exactly but if if she was a
00:03:46
great barista in the middle of town in
00:03:48
Oakland she would have been fine. She
00:03:49
was she was wonderful and um she was at
00:03:51
the front of my mind when the uh when
00:03:52
when the yeah the fire happened and it
00:03:54
became apparent just how bad it was cuz
00:03:56
uh I'd see her every morning for my
00:03:57
coffee and I could tell just how much
00:03:58
she loved working with those people at
00:04:00
that store.
00:04:01
>> Yeah, they were a great tight team as
00:04:03
happens in many many stores but you know
00:04:05
it's just something about that fully
00:04:07
customerf facing you know hardworking
00:04:09
doing a great job. The energy in it and
00:04:12
that's you know having an owner in the
00:04:13
store really builds that culture.
00:04:15
>> That's what you know we see that a lot.
00:04:18
Pack and Save is another one of food
00:04:20
stuff stores. How many pack and safe
00:04:21
stores are there?
00:04:21
>> There are 46,
00:04:23
>> four squares,
00:04:24
>> uh, about 165.
00:04:27
>> Gilmore,
00:04:28
>> eight.
00:04:29
>> And Lorland,
00:04:30
>> oh, North Island about 80,
00:04:33
>> right?
00:04:34
>> Yeah.
00:04:34
>> Did I miss anything or is that is that
00:04:35
all under the
00:04:36
>> You've got the That's the brands. That's
00:04:38
what faces the our customers. Yeah. So,
00:04:40
that's that's who it is.
00:04:41
>> Quite often people go, "Oh, yeah, that
00:04:43
Worth's of yours." You go, "No, no,
00:04:46
>> that's not ours." Um you need a dirty
00:04:48
word.
00:04:48
>> You need to call Australia on that one.
00:04:51
>> I'm I'm surprised you know um the exact
00:04:53
number of um stores for each of the
00:04:54
brands. That's um that's quite in the
00:04:56
weeds.
00:04:57
>> Yeah, it's look it's but it's important
00:04:58
right? You know we love it when we open
00:05:00
a new one. Uh sometimes particularly in
00:05:02
Foursquare we've had a bit of change of
00:05:04
stores and location. So it's just one of
00:05:06
those things that you know you talk
00:05:07
about a bit so you get to know.
00:05:10
>> The one question everyone wanted me to
00:05:12
put to you is um can you give us your
00:05:13
best stickman impression?
00:05:16
Uh if you ring my voicemail, you'll get
00:05:18
a very good Sman impression because man
00:05:21
did it. Yeah, Paul did that back when I
00:05:23
started. So uh no, I'm not very good at
00:05:26
that.
00:05:27
>> Just a It's a meat week at pack and
00:05:29
safe.
00:05:30
>> It's a meat week at packing. It's See,
00:05:33
that's why they don't get me to do it.
00:05:34
It's terrible.
00:05:35
>> That's That's the moment that your um
00:05:37
your PA asked us to cut out of the
00:05:39
podcast.
00:05:40
>> So um leave it in
00:05:42
>> beyond the title. Who is Chris Quinn?
00:05:44
Oh, look. Uh I I've sometimes when I
00:05:47
stand up and you know you talk to groups
00:05:49
or people ask that I go, "Well, I'm a
00:05:50
boy from Lower Hut." Um
00:05:52
>> you know, uh born in Oakuckland but left
00:05:55
before I think we I was two. Uh so I
00:05:57
don't really, you know, remember that
00:05:59
piece. Um
00:06:00
>> my dad was a health inspector for the
00:06:02
government. So there was a bit of
00:06:03
relocation. So we were in Hawks Bay for
00:06:05
about 8 years. Uh and then Lower, you
00:06:08
know, if you said, "Where are you from?"
00:06:09
I'd go Lower Wellington is where I grew
00:06:11
up. um and went to school and secondary
00:06:14
school and university. So that's sort of
00:06:15
you know that's where it starts.
00:06:19
>> Yeah. Um in researching this I I uh
00:06:22
learned a bit about your parents. You
00:06:24
lost them both painfully young, right?
00:06:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was uh my dad was 50, I
00:06:29
was 21. Uh and my mom at 60. Um so yeah,
00:06:34
very young. I'm the oldest of three. So
00:06:36
yeah, it was it was you know,
00:06:38
particularly with dad going I think my
00:06:39
brother who's a bit younger than me, he
00:06:41
was 11 when he passed. So yeah, it was a
00:06:43
you know, it's a massive impact on any
00:06:45
family when that happens. Um and you
00:06:48
learn so much um about you know your
00:06:50
role as oldest. You learn a lot about uh
00:06:52
who your father was because I'm I'm
00:06:55
trying to he passed on the 27th of
00:06:57
December which you know terrible time of
00:06:59
year. Um, and so his funeral was not
00:07:03
long after that, you know, and it's a
00:07:05
time where a lot of people are away
00:07:06
normally and 6 or 700 people showed up
00:07:09
and you sort of go, you know, as a
00:07:12
21-year-old, you, you know, your dad,
00:07:13
you know, dad's never a hero at 21,
00:07:15
right? Everyone thinks they know more
00:07:17
and you sort of go, wow, this, you know,
00:07:19
this is a whole new side and I didn't
00:07:20
understand all of that story. So, you
00:07:23
know, really, really impactful. Um, and
00:07:26
my mom, uh, was breast cancer. She was
00:07:28
cleared for 7 years, then it came back.
00:07:30
>> So,
00:07:31
>> what was what was the um cause of death
00:07:33
for your dad?
00:07:34
>> Uh was an aneurysm, a stroke. Um so, he
00:07:37
was quite
00:07:38
>> subtle a big man and a heavy smoker.
00:07:41
>> And you know, one of the things I've
00:07:42
never done is smoke.
00:07:44
>> What impact did did that have on you?
00:07:46
I'm just trying to put myself in your
00:07:48
shoes. Like, at at that age, I pro I
00:07:49
probably thought I knew everything. So,
00:07:51
probably wouldn't be for me until I got
00:07:53
a bit older that I'd understand the
00:07:54
impact of it. Yeah, that's what they
00:07:56
say, you know, hire a teenager while
00:07:57
they still know everything.
00:07:59
So, um, yeah, look, you know, it was,
00:08:02
you know, obviously incredibly tough on
00:08:04
my mom. Um, you know, with with three
00:08:06
kids, um, you know, at 21, you're an
00:08:09
adult, but, you know, with three kids, I
00:08:11
probably, you know, I remember I went
00:08:12
through a bit of a phase of checking
00:08:14
out. I just, you know, you get away from
00:08:15
the situation and, you know, probably
00:08:18
had some fun, but probably also, you
00:08:20
know, caused a bit of havoc. Um and you
00:08:23
know you you'd go through a bit of an
00:08:24
adjustment phase and then sort of grow
00:08:26
up a little bit and come back. So it was
00:08:29
you know um one of the most impactful
00:08:32
things and it sort of stuck in my mind
00:08:33
was the year he passed. So in a single
00:08:36
calendar year he had my 21st his 50th
00:08:38
and passed. Um I had the same year
00:08:43
>> so my son 21 I turned 50 and you know
00:08:46
you sort of weighs on your mind a bit.
00:08:47
you're going, you know, the obviously
00:08:50
the last bit didn't happen.
00:08:51
>> Yeah. It must have been playing on your
00:08:52
mind quite quite deeply.
00:08:53
>> Like you you Yeah. You must have seen
00:08:56
your son at 21 and think, "Shit, [ __ ]
00:08:58
that's that's young to lose your dad, to
00:09:00
lose a parent."
00:09:00
>> Yeah.
00:09:01
>> Um you've probably never had comparisons
00:09:03
in your life to Brad Thorne.
00:09:06
>> Correct.
00:09:07
>> I had um I had Brad Thorne in for a
00:09:08
podcast last week and he lost his dad
00:09:10
when he was 19. Um his dad was his like
00:09:13
biggest fan, biggest cheerleader,
00:09:15
biggest confidant.
00:09:16
>> And uh his dad got got to see him play
00:09:18
seven games for the Broncos um out of
00:09:21
his 500 game career.
00:09:22
>> Do you um
00:09:24
>> Yeah. Yeah. Your parents missed out on a
00:09:26
lot.
00:09:27
>> Yeah. And and so did I, you know,
00:09:29
because of And so did my kids because no
00:09:32
grandparents on my side. Um
00:09:35
>> uh my son, who's 29 now, would have been
00:09:37
I think he was three when my mom passed,
00:09:39
you know. So, um,
00:09:41
>> you don't have any memories, eh?
00:09:43
>> Yeah. And I do I do remember my wife Sue
00:09:46
was pregnant with our daughter. Um, and
00:09:48
she told her what what that it was a
00:09:51
girl, you know, hadn't told me,
00:09:53
>> but told her before she passed, which
00:09:55
was just one of those things that, you
00:09:56
know, was really cool and really
00:09:58
important that she did. Um,
00:10:00
>> but yeah, you you know, my dad wasn't a
00:10:02
sports guy and and I probably, you know,
00:10:04
I was no sports hero. You I was probably
00:10:05
fourth 15 at school.
00:10:08
>> Oh, silver stream. that's competitive
00:10:10
school.
00:10:11
>> Um and uh you know just his thing was um
00:10:16
debating and speaking and he was a a
00:10:18
teacher essentially. You know he'd been
00:10:20
in a profession then started to teach
00:10:21
the profession.
00:10:22
>> Um and that was one thing you know we
00:10:24
had oretry and debating contests at the
00:10:26
school and you know entered every year
00:10:28
finished second or third every year. I
00:10:30
remember the very last year so what's
00:10:31
that seven form? What do they call it
00:10:33
now? Year 13. Um I wasn't going to do
00:10:35
it. I'd said you know I'm sick of being
00:10:38
second. I'm not doing it. And he pushed
00:10:40
me hard to do it. We won it cuz he, you
00:10:43
know, he coached me through it. And, you
00:10:44
know, I just think back doesn't matter
00:10:46
what you're participating in, it's about
00:10:48
an attitude that you just keep having a
00:10:50
go.
00:10:50
>> And he was determined.
00:10:53
>> Any any other um lessons from your
00:10:55
parents that sort of stand out, things
00:10:57
that you sort of find you, you know,
00:10:59
chirping in your head from time to time?
00:11:01
>> Look, one of the things my dad used to
00:11:02
say was never have to cross the road.
00:11:04
And it was about relationships with
00:11:06
people. So it was sort of, you know, it
00:11:08
was don't ever leave something in a
00:11:10
situation where if you saw that person
00:11:11
walking towards you, you'd feel like you
00:11:12
had to
00:11:13
>> get out of the way or not not bump into
00:11:15
them.
00:11:16
>> It's just such a simple thing to think
00:11:18
about. Um, and particularly as you go
00:11:20
through a, you know, a career where you
00:11:22
come into lots and lots of people with
00:11:23
lots and lots of opinions and, you know,
00:11:25
sort of all sorts of views on the world
00:11:27
and that stuff, you just keep thinking
00:11:29
about that. How can I leave this where I
00:11:31
don't have to cross the road?
00:11:32
>> I've never heard that before. That's
00:11:34
really good. Yeah. It's
00:11:35
>> so it's like a preventative measure.
00:11:37
Just don't let things get that bad.
00:11:38
>> Yeah. Or or at least be in a position
00:11:40
where you go, I've I've done the right
00:11:41
thing.
00:11:42
>> Whether they have or not, you know,
00:11:43
that's in their hands. But,
00:11:45
>> you know, and I love the simplicity of
00:11:47
it. You can remember it.
00:11:48
>> So,
00:11:49
>> how are your kids now? You're an empty
00:11:51
neester?
00:11:52
>> Yes. Yeah, we are. Um,
00:11:53
>> your daughter's an embryologist.
00:11:55
>> Yes, she is. So, is um this comes from
00:11:59
being married to a preschool teacher.
00:12:00
So, when you name kids, you have to
00:12:02
choose names she hasn't hated.
00:12:04
So, what are the bad days?
00:12:06
>> Well, yeah, there were a lot by the time
00:12:08
we got to that, but um uh so she is a
00:12:11
clinical embryologist. She's in
00:12:12
Melbourne in a fertility clinic. um uh
00:12:16
incredibly proud, you know, um
00:12:18
>> you know, went from a kid that needed a
00:12:20
little bit of help in the middle of her
00:12:21
school years to, you know, a masters in
00:12:24
clinical embryology, which
00:12:25
>> you know, and it's the thing that sticks
00:12:27
in my mind about that is at a point in
00:12:29
her college time, a teacher found her
00:12:32
magic, clicked with her, and turned her
00:12:34
on to science, and yeah, away she went.
00:12:36
Um, so yeah, she's and and what I love
00:12:40
about so many kids I meet now, I'm very
00:12:42
fortunate mine are this is they are
00:12:44
doing a job that has a purpose that they
00:12:46
love that they're, you know, engaged and
00:12:48
entertained by, you know, and it's so
00:12:50
cool.
00:12:51
>> Yeah. That's one thing that um stood out
00:12:53
to me because myself and my ex-wife, we
00:12:55
went through the um fertility treatment
00:12:57
and IVF program and XE and donor sperm
00:13:00
and all that and the embryologist, they
00:13:01
do they do a phenomenal job.
00:13:03
>> Yeah, they do. And awesome work, too.
00:13:05
She genuinely thinks about it as I'm
00:13:06
trying to help people have families who
00:13:08
couldn't.
00:13:08
>> Yeah.
00:13:09
>> It's always a little bit disturbing when
00:13:11
you ring your daughter and she says, "I
00:13:12
can't talk. I'm analyzing sperm."
00:13:16
>> So, the way they talk, they get um this
00:13:19
isn't your daughter specifically, but
00:13:20
the embryologist I I dealt with, they'd
00:13:22
give you a personal phone call say, "Oh,
00:13:23
we've got some really good-look sperm
00:13:25
here. It's got a great head, a great
00:13:27
tail." Of course.
00:13:30
>> And what about what about your son?
00:13:31
Something to do with robotics.
00:13:33
>> Yes. So, uh, Kellas son's 29. Um, and
00:13:36
he, uh, is a mechatronics engineer was
00:13:40
the qualification. We wouldn't have
00:13:41
heard of it. Um, and I think when he
00:13:44
started it at Oakland Union, it was
00:13:45
probably only 2 years old as a degree.
00:13:46
So, it was quite a fresh thing. Um, and
00:13:49
I think in New Zealand, only Oakland and
00:13:51
Canterbury teach it at this point. Um,
00:13:53
but it's a combination of mechanical
00:13:55
engineering, robotics, computer
00:13:57
engineering, AI, all of those things,
00:13:59
which you sort of look at it and go, if
00:14:00
there was ever a degree for the future,
00:14:02
it's it's right there. Um, so yeah, he
00:14:05
loved it. A 4-year degree at Oakland and
00:14:08
then um has been with Zuru ever since
00:14:11
with the Moberry brothers um in their
00:14:14
business all over the world doing some
00:14:16
really cool things.
00:14:16
>> Incredible. So for you, what does an
00:14:19
average day look like? I heard I think
00:14:20
you've been on as far as I'm aware like
00:14:22
one other podcast and uh you talked
00:14:24
about swimming at 5 in the morning with
00:14:26
water waterproof ear plugs in.
00:14:28
>> Oh,
00:14:30
are you still in your swimming era?
00:14:31
>> Uh no, that happened after a small
00:14:33
incident on a mountain bike. Um
00:14:34
>> Oh, broken leg at Mo.
00:14:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh no, it wasn't Moafu. That
00:14:38
would have been really exciting. Um no,
00:14:40
I've done Mo Tapu, but not that one.
00:14:42
That was it was a different place and
00:14:44
ride, but I broke a leg in nine places.
00:14:45
So the the recovery included how do you
00:14:48
get moving again? and swimming's
00:14:50
fantastic for that. So that was a little
00:14:52
while while food stuffs was still in its
00:14:54
60 year old building in Mount Roscoll.
00:14:56
Um I'd go to the Mount Rosal pools in
00:14:57
the morning. But no, now um you know a
00:15:01
typical day I' I'd most you know 3 4
00:15:03
days a week if I'm if I'm doing good I
00:15:05
get to a gym class about 6:30 in the
00:15:07
morning.
00:15:08
>> Uh it's fantastic. It's a BFT you know
00:15:10
so it's just it's a 40 class 45 minute
00:15:13
thing. Um, and it's in Munger and I love
00:15:17
being there and love being the crowd.
00:15:19
Um, I'm possibly the only white guy in
00:15:21
the room and that's fantastic. Um, and
00:15:23
it's such a great crew of people who
00:15:25
there's no no sort of heroes. You don't
00:15:28
feel like I have to be a endurance
00:15:29
athlete to be here. Um, and they're all
00:15:32
just having a good time and supporting
00:15:33
each other and it's a nice cool way to
00:15:35
start the day. Um
00:15:37
>> then it's you know our offices are by
00:15:39
the airport at the landing now which is
00:15:40
an incredible part of Oakland in terms
00:15:42
of the buildout of businesses there. Um
00:15:45
>> and you know it's it's into it every
00:15:48
morning. Uh my leadership team and I we
00:15:51
have a thing we call heartbeat. So we
00:15:52
just on a call at 8:30 just going does
00:15:55
anything happen safety wise overnight
00:15:57
because we run a big physical operation
00:15:59
a lot of stores a lot of people. uh then
00:16:01
what's happening with retailing, what's
00:16:03
happening with wholesaling, and then any
00:16:04
issues because it's for me that's a lot
00:16:07
about how fast things, you know, every
00:16:09
24 hours we're together, we can make
00:16:11
decisions, we can move things along, we
00:16:12
can trade. So that's how the day starts.
00:16:16
>> Starting the day with exercise, it's a
00:16:17
win, isn't it? You must have to get up
00:16:19
really early, though. You live like half
00:16:20
an hour away from where you work.
00:16:22
>> Yeah. It's about a 5:00 a.m. alarm. Yep.
00:16:24
Yep. And
00:16:25
>> and your body clock, it lets you down,
00:16:27
right? Cuz on the day you go, you know
00:16:28
what? I'm just not feeling I'm going to
00:16:29
sleep in. doesn't happen. So, and I
00:16:32
don't know how it does it, but Saturday
00:16:33
mornings it doesn't. So, it's Yeah. But
00:16:37
no, it's a feelood way to start the day.
00:16:39
>> Yeah. What time are you normally in bed?
00:16:41
>> Uh, about midnight.
00:16:43
>> Oh my god. Really?
00:16:44
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:45
>> Why are you reading documents, doing
00:16:47
work or?
00:16:48
>> Yeah. Working a bit. I'm trying to be,
00:16:50
you know, it's absolutely true. And I'm
00:16:51
trying to be more disciplined about
00:16:52
cutting the blue light
00:16:54
>> an hour before sleep, you know, and just
00:16:56
read or, you know, do something hard
00:16:57
copy. Um but yeah, that's usually about
00:17:00
it.
00:17:00
>> It's tough though, isn't it? Because in
00:17:02
a job like yours, there must just always
00:17:03
be stuff you can do. You're always
00:17:05
behind.
00:17:06
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Demand always exceeds
00:17:08
supply. It's just
00:17:10
um and and one of the best questions you
00:17:13
could be asking yourself is sort of what
00:17:15
is this, you know, what's the output of
00:17:17
this? Why are we doing this or we just
00:17:18
doing? Because being busy is not hard.
00:17:22
>> You know, being impactful, that's the
00:17:24
real question.
00:17:25
>> How did you end up um chairman of the
00:17:26
board of Guilt Trap? Don't you have
00:17:28
enough on your plate? Are you no good at
00:17:30
saying no?
00:17:32
>> Come to that. Um, look, um, I, you know,
00:17:36
one of the things, you know, I've never
00:17:38
worked outside of New Zealand. Traveled
00:17:40
heaps, but never worked outside of New
00:17:41
Zealand. I have a real passion for New
00:17:44
Zealanders, you know, I just think
00:17:45
there's something about what we do where
00:17:47
we punch above our weight in the world.
00:17:48
And there's so many stories about that.
00:17:51
>> Uh, and, you know, so you look around,
00:17:52
you see great New Zealand stories. It's
00:17:54
why I sat on the board of the Ice House
00:17:56
for a long time. Uh, and look, the the,
00:17:58
you know, cars is a personal passion,
00:18:00
but also the Guilt Trap family business.
00:18:02
You know, Sir Collins started that in
00:18:04
1966.
00:18:06
Uh, and his sons now own and run the
00:18:08
business. You know, it's another great
00:18:09
New Zealand story. And I I know uh the
00:18:13
sons and and it was just one of these
00:18:15
classic New Zealand moments. I was in a
00:18:17
coffee shop in their building. One of
00:18:18
them walked past. We had a chat about
00:18:20
something else I was looking at and he
00:18:21
said, "Oh, are you looking for a board
00:18:22
seat?" And I said, "Well, I am cuz I
00:18:24
believe CEOs should have one outside of
00:18:27
their job cuz I think it just keeps your
00:18:28
mind open." And he said, "Oh, well,
00:18:30
we're looking for a director." And that
00:18:32
was it. You know, in couple of years as
00:18:35
director, then, you know, as Colin
00:18:37
became not working on the board, you
00:18:39
know, it just happened. Um,
00:18:41
>> how did that conversation go down with
00:18:42
your wife?
00:18:43
>> Um, she just, yeah, I roll, you know,
00:18:45
like and then worried about how many I
00:18:48
was going to buy, I think. Um but it's
00:18:51
there's quite a bit of work involved
00:18:52
with those things. I sort of had no
00:18:53
idea, but I had um Dame Joan Withers in
00:18:55
for a podcast last week and she's um
00:18:58
like a serial um board member or board
00:19:00
chair. Um she was explaining to me like
00:19:02
the 300page documents that she's got to
00:19:04
read before these meetings and the due
00:19:06
diligence involved like it's not
00:19:08
>> it's not just rock in and wing it, is
00:19:10
it?
00:19:10
>> No. I think the old days and without any
00:19:12
offense to lawyers and accountants sort
00:19:14
of turning up and you know having lunch
00:19:17
and saying well done that that's long
00:19:18
gone. director's responsibilities are
00:19:20
serious and so they should be um
00:19:22
>> you know you are there on behalf of the
00:19:24
shareholders protecting their interests
00:19:26
and if you're not doing that that's you
00:19:27
know that's not responsible so
00:19:29
>> so I know Dame Joan and others you know
00:19:32
very experienced very capable uh
00:19:34
directors and governors and chairs um
00:19:37
it's great it I personally find it great
00:19:39
to be a CEO in one world and a chairman
00:19:42
in another because I can sometimes see
00:19:43
how bad I am at either
00:19:46
or you know but it's it's certainly you
00:19:48
going, "Oh, yeah. I was a real dick
00:19:49
about that." Um, and so it does teach
00:19:52
you the difference between governance
00:19:54
and management and to respect both roles
00:19:56
and to try and play your role really,
00:19:59
really well.
00:20:00
>> I mean, what sort of Can you think of
00:20:02
any examples of things that you've been
00:20:03
you you've been a real dick about? I
00:20:04
mean, you've been really successful in
00:20:06
your corporate career.
00:20:07
Uh look, you know, it it's there are
00:20:10
plenty of along the way you go, you
00:20:12
know, I made that mistake, you know, and
00:20:14
quite often it's about people's
00:20:16
situations where sometimes you go, you
00:20:18
know, I just really believe in the
00:20:19
person. I really think they can turn
00:20:21
this around or they can be different.
00:20:23
>> Quite often the respectful thing to do
00:20:25
is to call it and say, "Look, let's get
00:20:27
you somewhere where you can be
00:20:28
successful, but it's not there." Um, and
00:20:31
you know, be brave about that. I think
00:20:32
that's quite often sometimes when you
00:20:35
you know you're right there's a great
00:20:36
saying that said the most important
00:20:38
capability about leadership is you never
00:20:40
stop learning
00:20:41
>> and leaders that turn up and go good
00:20:43
news I know everything that's not
00:20:45
helpful
00:20:46
>> and you know and and I can think of
00:20:48
moments where you've gone I'm just going
00:20:49
in to start you know giving my view or
00:20:52
issuing a
00:20:53
>> you know a decision without learning
00:20:55
that's when you get it wrong. Well, I've
00:20:57
sort of found not just leadership
00:20:59
specific, but in my life, like the older
00:21:01
I get and the more I know, the realize
00:21:02
the more I have to learn.
00:21:03
>> Yeah. And isn't that wonderful?
00:21:05
>> Oh, absolutely. Thank goodness.
00:21:08
>> 20 I thought I knew it all.
00:21:10
>> Yes.
00:21:12
>> I cringe. I pity that kid.
00:21:14
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:15
>> But that, you know, also you got to have
00:21:17
that energy, don't you? And you got to,
00:21:18
you know, as long as you don't break
00:21:20
anything, you just bump your way down
00:21:21
the hallway and keep going.
00:21:22
>> Yeah. Absolutely. So, we're uh recording
00:21:25
this podcast, just to time stamp it, in
00:21:27
um the middle of February 2026. And uh I
00:21:30
was preparing for the the chat yesterday
00:21:31
and as I was doing so, I got a popup on
00:21:33
my phone. Um the headline was New
00:21:36
Zealand food prices recently had their
00:21:38
biggest monthly rise in four years. When
00:21:40
um when there's a headline like that,
00:21:42
which is quite frequently, and you're
00:21:43
part of the news cycle, what do you
00:21:45
feel?
00:21:46
Uh look, you're firstly very aware that
00:21:49
4 million times a week New Zealanders
00:21:51
shop in our stores or on our websites or
00:21:53
online. So, you know, you think about
00:21:56
our 24,000 people, they get a lot of
00:21:58
commentary, a lot of pokes, a lot of
00:22:00
questions, a lot of, you know,
00:22:02
semiattacks from everywhere.
00:22:05
Yeah, they are the front line.
00:22:07
>> In fact, an economist in Australia we
00:22:09
worked with said it perfectly. He said,
00:22:11
"You guys are not the cause of
00:22:13
inflation, but you're on the front line
00:22:15
of inflation." I thought it was just
00:22:16
such a simple way to think about it. So,
00:22:19
the first thing is, you know, if you are
00:22:21
truly committed to being a customer
00:22:23
organization, you got to go that is a
00:22:24
problem for every New Zealand household.
00:22:26
Like, don't don't start defending
00:22:28
yourself. You got to go first. That's a
00:22:30
real problem for New Zealand households.
00:22:32
You know, it is tough out there. We have
00:22:34
>> 24,000 families in our care. We know a
00:22:38
lot about what life is like for them and
00:22:40
you know everything about the household
00:22:42
bill, the insurance, the rates, the
00:22:43
electricity, food, it's all had a lot of
00:22:46
pressure in the last few years. So
00:22:48
that's the first thing is you go accept
00:22:50
and own that it is a problem for your
00:22:52
customers and you need to care about it.
00:22:53
Um secondly then you go okay first thing
00:22:56
would be good is make sure we understand
00:22:58
what has happened and why and where it's
00:22:59
come from. Um, and that's been a piece
00:23:01
that that we've been doing for a while
00:23:03
that we believe is only one in the world
00:23:06
because we've traveled a lot and shared
00:23:07
it with other retailers and no one else
00:23:08
has done it. But we've been publishing
00:23:10
for over 3 years simply how much has our
00:23:13
price gone up by, how much has the cost
00:23:15
of the products from our suppliers gone
00:23:16
up by and what's happened to food price
00:23:18
inflation overall in the market and on
00:23:21
average we have been the lowest of those
00:23:22
three. So the first job you do is say
00:23:24
are you making a difference? Like we're
00:23:26
doing everything we can to keep prices
00:23:28
fair and and valuable. So we do, you
00:23:30
know, and love that we've got a pack and
00:23:32
save story that plays really strong into
00:23:34
that. Uh, and you know, look at all the
00:23:37
time what's happening with the price
00:23:38
increases coming from our suppliers. And
00:23:41
I think, you know, is even, you know,
00:23:43
that story played through to radio this
00:23:45
morning and, you know, a good part of
00:23:47
the commentary was, hey, look, red meat,
00:23:48
you know, our products are in demand all
00:23:50
over the world. That's fantastic, but we
00:23:52
pay the same price the world pays. Dairy
00:23:54
is the same. you know, chocolate's gone
00:23:56
through the roof because Coco's, you
00:23:58
know, had huge price increases from all
00:24:00
over the world. So, partners of ours
00:24:02
like Whitkers just have to go, look, you
00:24:04
know, we got to keep making the same
00:24:05
quality, which means we're going to have
00:24:07
to put the price up.
00:24:09
>> So, that's, you know, you you then go
00:24:11
into that and then you start thinking
00:24:12
about how can we help our customers with
00:24:14
this problem. So, how do we provide as
00:24:17
much advice as we can about how you buy
00:24:19
in season, how you buy fresh stuff, you
00:24:21
know, when it's in good supply rather
00:24:23
than when it's rare? How do we keep
00:24:25
finding alternatives? And that's a real
00:24:27
balance. You know, do you bring in a
00:24:29
global product or use the local one?
00:24:31
>> Where does the value sit in that?
00:24:33
>> So, it's, you know, it's a complex
00:24:35
supply chain with a lot going on. Uh,
00:24:37
and we're accountable for being
00:24:39
transparent about what our prices are
00:24:40
doing, which we've tried to do.
00:24:42
>> Yeah. You mentioned it was on the radio
00:24:44
this morning. I heard the same chat. I
00:24:46
was driving to the gym maybe about 6:30
00:24:48
and Mike Hosking was um speaking to
00:24:50
someone about it. Um yeah, the media
00:24:52
does tend to paint you as as um not you
00:24:54
specifically, but I suppose food staffs
00:24:56
and woolworths as the bad guys. Are you
00:24:58
the bad guys? Look, no, we're not the
00:25:01
bad guys, you know. Um now, no, the
00:25:04
media are reflecting a mood of of their
00:25:07
readers and of consumers and also a lot
00:25:09
of where the politics is at on these
00:25:11
subjects. uh and all over the world cost
00:25:14
of living has been a major issue since
00:25:16
co basically um and and so you know it's
00:25:20
reflected everywhere. I I landed in
00:25:22
Ireland last late October last year and
00:25:26
first breakfast I went to in the hotel
00:25:27
the Irish Times is on the table on the
00:25:29
front cover it says food prices is going
00:25:30
up for Christmas you know and part of me
00:25:32
went well it's not just us
00:25:35
but but so this is a global problem um
00:25:39
and it is caused by what's going on in
00:25:41
inflation globally and you know if there
00:25:43
was one word every New Zealander has
00:25:45
heard in the last few years it's
00:25:46
inflation
00:25:47
>> and one word they've felt on their
00:25:48
households it's inflation
00:25:50
>> you Now some of the conversation
00:25:51
shifting from is this a cost problem or
00:25:54
is it a productivity and income problem
00:25:57
because you know should we be trying to
00:25:59
focus on how we grow a country where our
00:26:00
jobs are more valuable where people are
00:26:02
paid more but at the end of the day the
00:26:05
fundamental issue is I should be able to
00:26:06
if we're doing a decent job earning a
00:26:08
decent salary I should be able to have a
00:26:10
decent life
00:26:11
>> and we've got to look at everything that
00:26:13
affects that and make a difference.
00:26:15
>> Um are we the bad guys? Look, that
00:26:18
question really goes to are we making
00:26:20
profit more than we should be in a fair
00:26:22
market? And you know, we did a simple
00:26:24
thing for a few years now. We said if
00:26:26
you pay a dollar in store, our profit
00:26:28
after tax is 3.6.
00:26:31
And that's, you know,
00:26:33
>> and I think it's one of the things not
00:26:35
many people know about is how big a
00:26:38
business a supermarket is. You know, if
00:26:40
you look at a pack and save, we're
00:26:42
talking about 400 plus staff. We're
00:26:44
talking about tens of millions of
00:26:45
dollars of investment and equipment and
00:26:48
building and stock and all of those
00:26:50
things. We're talking about, you know, a
00:26:53
dozen or so liters of that business.
00:26:54
We're talking about, you know, each week
00:26:57
hundreds of thousands of cartons of
00:26:58
product moving through. It's a decentsiz
00:27:00
business. Making 3.6 cents after paying
00:27:04
tax is fair. Compares pretty well to the
00:27:07
rest of the world. It is not out of
00:27:08
whack. M
00:27:11
>> does it make you happy when the banks
00:27:12
are in the the firing line and not you?
00:27:14
>> No.
00:27:17
Um look, it's a short game if you go
00:27:19
long as someone else has been kicked
00:27:20
harder, we're okay. Um
00:27:22
>> we you know, we want our customers to be
00:27:24
happy with what we do.
00:27:26
>> I I truly believe I've been around this
00:27:28
organization 10 years. Um
00:27:31
>> as you probably know, I was in Telecom
00:27:32
and Spark before that. So, I've had a
00:27:34
fun time with brands through my whole
00:27:36
career because there were times when
00:27:38
they were hated, too.
00:27:39
>> Um, and you know, when you when you look
00:27:42
back at it, um, the real issue is how do
00:27:44
we get New Zealanders to be one
00:27:47
comfortable that what they are getting
00:27:48
from New Zealand companies is good and
00:27:50
fair cuz we compare our retail offerings
00:27:53
out of our brands to many in the world
00:27:54
and I think we can genuinely say they're
00:27:56
as good as some of the world's best. Um,
00:27:59
and I, you know, you store visit, we've
00:28:00
got people coming down to see it. So
00:28:02
that's, you know, it's a long flight
00:28:04
and, you know, you think, why would they
00:28:06
do that?
00:28:07
>> I think the other thing is, you know,
00:28:09
New Zealand's at a really interesting
00:28:10
moment and this thing keeps going
00:28:12
through my head, which is it's really
00:28:13
hard to build something up while you're
00:28:15
punching down.
00:28:16
>> And there's a lot of societal and
00:28:19
political punching down going on. We
00:28:21
need to be focused on building something
00:28:23
up.
00:28:25
>> 100%. Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:28
I've had um I've been fortunate enough
00:28:29
to have quite a few um successful
00:28:31
entrepreneurs on the podcast. Actually,
00:28:33
probably the big three of New Zealand,
00:28:34
Anna Mo, Sir Peter Beck, and um Sir
00:28:37
Robert, and they all have the same thing
00:28:39
in common, that same sort of attitude
00:28:40
about, you know, we need to think better
00:28:42
and we need to be more positive.
00:28:43
>> Um you build bigger tables, not bigger
00:28:46
walls to keep people away from the
00:28:47
table.
00:28:48
>> These um when you're required to front
00:28:51
up for these interviews on a on a
00:28:52
personal level, like how do you feel?
00:28:54
You get anxious, you sleepless nights
00:28:56
the night before. Don't get anxious or
00:28:57
sleepless. No. Um I you know you think
00:29:01
about one of the things I keep thinking
00:29:02
about is how do you build connection? I
00:29:04
think it's one of the critical
00:29:05
leadership things. So you know cuz you
00:29:07
do see some leaders talk in a language
00:29:09
or a style that you know I keep thinking
00:29:12
about who's listening or who am I
00:29:14
talking to
00:29:15
>> and how do I respectfully connect with
00:29:17
them and and sort of
00:29:18
>> and the other thing I think about is you
00:29:20
know if a question gets asked answer yes
00:29:22
or no
00:29:23
>> you know like like just keep it real
00:29:25
keep it authentic. Um, and also
00:29:28
sometimes there's great power in saying
00:29:29
I don't know
00:29:30
>> because you know there's a vulnerability
00:29:32
in that that I think is I respect in
00:29:34
people and they just go I don't know.
00:29:35
I'm not going to even try and make it
00:29:36
up.
00:29:37
>> Um, so but also you know I do feel like
00:29:42
part of my job is to do something on
00:29:43
behalf of our team so that someone
00:29:45
stands up for them because that's one of
00:29:48
the things about all of this noise about
00:29:50
the supermarket industry. You know, it's
00:29:52
incredibly hard for a 16-year-old on
00:29:54
checkout, you know, and one of the
00:29:56
things I love about our business is so
00:29:58
many, you know, like the number of
00:29:59
people you meet who said my after school
00:30:00
job was
00:30:02
>> New World or Pack and Save or something.
00:30:04
>> Food, I'm old.
00:30:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. There you go.
00:30:06
>> But I'll tell you, it was the most
00:30:07
glorious couple of years of my life.
00:30:09
>> I went to an old boy school, Palmy Boys
00:30:11
High, and it's the um the closest
00:30:13
interaction I had with girls at that
00:30:14
stage of my life. And from a social
00:30:16
aspect, I loved it. I started off as a
00:30:18
packer, ended up being a checkout
00:30:19
operator. Loved it.
00:30:20
>> Yep. And look, you know, my first paid
00:30:22
job was in retail in a paint wallpaper
00:30:24
shop. Um, and then started doing
00:30:26
nightfall in a walls and lower hut.
00:30:28
Don't tell anyone.
00:30:30
And you know, they are fantastic jobs.
00:30:32
You learn how to work hard. You learn
00:30:34
how to be productive.
00:30:36
>> You learn how to engage with people and
00:30:37
customers. You learn what standards look
00:30:39
like. You know, so many things you learn
00:30:41
from that that you know, you may not
00:30:43
pick up in an office. M when when when
00:30:45
you do a grocery shop, maybe it's a at a
00:30:48
four square over the summer holidays,
00:30:49
like you're away from home. Um what do
00:30:52
you see in a store that the rest of us
00:30:54
wouldn't see?
00:30:55
>> Look, I think you uh you see, you know,
00:30:58
the different departments and Foursquare
00:30:59
is a great example, particularly over
00:31:00
summer when it's under pressure, right?
00:31:02
They're a small building pumping
00:31:04
>> two, three times the volume that they
00:31:05
might during the year. So, it's, you
00:31:07
know, huge respect for those teams in
00:31:09
those regions and those owners that make
00:31:11
that work. Um and and so what you see
00:31:14
you know firstly fresh matters most
00:31:16
right most stores you walk on to produce
00:31:18
and fruit and veg first it's growing as
00:31:21
a category it's what people you know to
00:31:23
be honest a barcoded product a packet of
00:31:26
wheat books or a packet of biscuits you
00:31:27
know they are what they are where you
00:31:29
make a difference is in those fresh
00:31:31
departments so that's the first thing
00:31:32
you see is you know am I seeing you know
00:31:35
is it attractive is it engaging is it
00:31:37
good quality product is it displayed
00:31:39
well have they got the range those are
00:31:41
the sort of things you quickly assess.
00:31:43
>> Just think as I say all this, my wife
00:31:44
will be laughing going, "What the hell
00:31:45
would he know?"
00:31:48
Um, and then you notice retail
00:31:50
standards. So, you can look at a shelf
00:31:51
and go, is it gappy? Is it full? You
00:31:54
know, is it clean and good to go? Uh,
00:31:56
you notice the team, you know, are the
00:31:58
team sort of engaging? Are they thinking
00:32:00
about customers around them? You notice
00:32:02
engagement at checkout. So, all of those
00:32:05
things. Then you start getting into next
00:32:06
level. You know, is price being
00:32:08
displayed really clearly. Are people
00:32:10
getting the signals about where the
00:32:11
deals are? So, there's all these things,
00:32:14
but you know, full, fresh, and friendly
00:32:17
is a great start for any grocery store.
00:32:20
>> Do um do many of the staff in these
00:32:22
stores know who you are?
00:32:24
>> More and more. Yeah.
00:32:26
>> How's that? Like, do you notice um
00:32:28
>> look, so not knowing names, you know,
00:32:30
it's a lot wear name badges. Thank
00:32:32
goodness. Um and I've I've probably
00:32:34
learned over the years just to go, "Hey,
00:32:35
look, sorry, you you know, what's your
00:32:37
name? What do you do?" you know, cuz no
00:32:40
point in pretending otherwise or making
00:32:41
it awkward.
00:32:42
>> Yeah.
00:32:42
>> Um but yeah, you know, you do notice. Um
00:32:45
and you know, sometimes you get followed
00:32:46
around the store because they want to
00:32:47
show you something or tell you
00:32:48
something, which is great, you know, cuz
00:32:50
they're proud of what they do,
00:32:52
>> you know, incredible people. And
00:32:54
>> and you know, as I say, the last few
00:32:56
years has been a bit tough, you know,
00:32:57
for them socially, you know, at sports
00:32:59
or church or social to say, you know, I
00:33:02
work for this store or that store cuz
00:33:04
people have had a headful of opinions.
00:33:06
>> Really? Yeah. Is it that bad?
00:33:08
>> Yep. Yep. It's it's the one thing, you
00:33:10
know, it's there is a lot of feedback.
00:33:12
It's it is better now, you know, but in
00:33:16
the last 12 to 18 months, it's been, you
00:33:18
know, and then there's been the whole
00:33:19
retail crime issue and how we keep our
00:33:22
people safe because they deserve to be
00:33:23
able to work safe.
00:33:25
Well, yeah, I mentioned that pop-up, the
00:33:27
news popup I got yesterday in relation
00:33:28
to grocery store prices, but I got
00:33:30
another one about an hour after that
00:33:31
about someone that was in court for an
00:33:33
incident at a West Oakland supermarket
00:33:35
um that was shoplifting and then
00:33:36
assaulted staff with an umbrella.
00:33:38
>> Yes.
00:33:38
>> Is this like a a daily thing, a weekly
00:33:40
thing?
00:33:40
>> Oh, yeah. It is around 5,000 times a
00:33:42
quarter
00:33:44
>> in the North Island.
00:33:47
>> Unbelievable. Yeah.
00:33:48
>> How many of these like make it to your
00:33:50
level? uh the the anything that turns
00:33:53
into violence I hear about. So every
00:33:55
morning part of that heartbeat is safety
00:33:57
and then you hear about any incidences
00:33:59
in store. So you know not too many weeks
00:34:02
go by where I'm not hearing about a
00:34:04
weapon pulled um where I'm not hearing
00:34:06
about a a scuffle or you know a physical
00:34:09
event um or not hearing about a a break
00:34:12
or you know some sort of raid on the
00:34:14
store. And it's when you've got 353
00:34:17
stores across the network, you know,
00:34:19
this is what's happening out there.
00:34:21
>> And it is, it has, you know, retail
00:34:23
crime has no address. It's everywhere.
00:34:26
Um, so any any misbelief people have
00:34:29
that it's sort of happening in some
00:34:30
suburb versus other suburbs, that's not
00:34:32
true.
00:34:33
>> Yeah. Well, there was an incident in St.
00:34:34
Hel Square four maybe three, four years
00:34:36
ago where someone came in and uh with a
00:34:39
knife and was like um attacking
00:34:41
customers and stuff.
00:34:42
>> Had stabbed a customer.
00:34:43
>> Yeah.
00:34:43
>> Yep. I I I just can't imagine how
00:34:46
traumatic that would be for the staff
00:34:47
involved.
00:34:47
>> Oh, incredible. Yeah. Like like
00:34:49
>> and it is, you know, you think, you
00:34:51
know, the fact we have to train people
00:34:52
how to deescalate these situations, you
00:34:54
know, it's a supermarket. You know what,
00:34:56
you know, what on earth? And it's what
00:34:58
led us to we did quite a lot of work in
00:35:00
the last couple of years using facial
00:35:02
recognition technology and developing
00:35:04
that as a process and a policy with the
00:35:06
privacy commission because I look at
00:35:10
what we're doing and you know and some
00:35:12
have stabroof vests some you know and
00:35:14
you go they're all for after an incident
00:35:15
has started how do we prevent
00:35:17
>> you know the the safest thing to do is
00:35:19
hide the mattress not put out the fire
00:35:21
>> so how do we bring that forward and
00:35:23
there's some really simple stuff you
00:35:25
know it's amazing like a simple
00:35:26
difference being greeted at the front
00:35:27
door makes because that instantly
00:35:30
creates a bit of okay I've I've engaged
00:35:32
with another person I'm not just walking
00:35:34
in sort of without any humanity uh and
00:35:38
then you know but facial recognition so
00:35:40
it's a very simple thing someone has
00:35:41
been barred from the store previously
00:35:43
for a violent or aggressive act and
00:35:45
we've trespassed them then we say you
00:35:47
can't come in the facial recognition
00:35:49
picks them up an entry two managers
00:35:51
engage and just say hey Dom you know
00:35:53
you're not supposed to be here come on
00:35:55
on your way that is the most successful
00:35:57
that reduced retail crime in our stores
00:35:59
16%.
00:36:00
>> Yeah.
00:36:00
>> So made our people safer and made
00:36:02
customers safer.
00:36:03
>> If you could um change one structural
00:36:05
thing about New Zealand's grocery sector
00:36:06
overnight, what would it be?
00:36:10
>> Look, one structural thing I would
00:36:14
really test for all of the regulation we
00:36:17
work under that it has a benefit for
00:36:18
consumers. You know, this industry is
00:36:20
like every other industry. We've got to
00:36:22
get cost out of it to be able to do a
00:36:24
better job on price and value. things
00:36:26
that add cost in then don't help us be
00:36:29
lower on price. Um the other thing, you
00:36:32
know, we just got to understand who we
00:36:33
are. So I we took some of our owners to
00:36:36
Italy last year and saw a whole bunch of
00:36:38
stores so that we could learn and pick
00:36:39
up ideas and think about our future
00:36:41
design of some of our stores and you
00:36:44
walk the aisles of a a big supermarket
00:36:45
in Italy, you know, and there's an aisle
00:36:47
of amazing breads or there's an aisle of
00:36:48
amazing salami or cheeses or those
00:36:50
things and you'll go, "Wow, that would
00:36:51
work." And I just reminded everyone in
00:36:54
Italy there are 202 people per square
00:36:56
kilometer. In New Zealand there are 20
00:36:59
>> which is we love. That's what makes New
00:37:01
Zealand. But you also just got to go
00:37:03
okay how does that change how you
00:37:05
regulate and operate our industries to
00:37:07
be the best they can be.
00:37:09
>> So just adjusting for that it's not a
00:37:12
structural thing but the one other thing
00:37:14
I really wish everyone would understand
00:37:16
is what a cooperative is. You know
00:37:18
because because even people say you know
00:37:20
24,000 people work for you. don't you
00:37:22
know about 2,000 do the other 22,000
00:37:25
work for the families that own each of
00:37:26
the stores and sometimes people talk
00:37:30
about a duopoly in New Zealand they go
00:37:32
it's Walworth and food stuffs
00:37:34
>> um our stores you know this is it's like
00:37:36
every New Zealand person who you know
00:37:38
we're competitive as people I believe so
00:37:41
every one of our stores they care much
00:37:43
more about beating another one of our
00:37:45
stores than they do about beating wars
00:37:46
trust me
00:37:47
>> I was gonna I was gonna ask you that
00:37:48
like is is it quite tribal like uh It's
00:37:51
it's like a family, right? So when
00:37:54
needed, they band together beautifully
00:37:56
and very strongly. Otherwise, fight like
00:37:58
hell,
00:37:58
>> you know.
00:38:00
>> Yeah. It's just
00:38:01
>> we hate the Aussies, but uh if push
00:38:02
comes to shove, we're there.
00:38:03
>> If we've got a common enemy, all good.
00:38:05
Meantime, yeah. Um and you know, if we
00:38:09
want something, you know, if we're
00:38:10
focused on something improving, just
00:38:12
publish a list of the best one to the
00:38:13
worst one
00:38:14
>> of ours and stand back
00:38:17
>> and the, you know, the competitive
00:38:18
nature of each of the owners takes over.
00:38:20
They just all strive to be better.
00:38:22
>> So it's, you know, pack and save
00:38:23
competes with New World and then they
00:38:26
compete with each other. So there is a
00:38:28
natural competitive effect in the market
00:38:30
that isn't well understood.
00:38:31
>> Jess, you're into how long you been in
00:38:32
the role now? Like 11 years. 10 years.
00:38:34
>> 10 years. September 2015. So a little
00:38:37
bit more than 10.
00:38:37
>> She we've been um we've been going for
00:38:39
37 minutes. There's so much to talk
00:38:41
about. We might have to go back to the
00:38:42
beginning and then build back up to it.
00:38:44
things like um I didn't really sort of
00:38:46
think about this until I was prepping
00:38:47
for the podcast yesterday, but a phrase
00:38:49
like supply chain like before 2020 I
00:38:51
don't think I'd ever heard or use that
00:38:53
phrase now it's in the common sort of
00:38:54
vernacular
00:38:55
>> but yeah um yeah one more before we we
00:38:57
move on um
00:38:58
>> do you do you use a new world club card
00:39:00
or you know you don't worry about it
00:39:02
>> no I do absolutely
00:39:05
>> uh for for a couple of reasons one
00:39:07
because I need to know what a customer's
00:39:08
seeing you know so we walk stores like
00:39:12
you know part of My diary is a day a
00:39:14
month I'm on the road visiting a region
00:39:16
and seeing every store I possibly can
00:39:18
because if if I lose contact with that
00:39:20
then everything else starts to lose
00:39:22
context and and accuracy. Um so using a
00:39:25
club card is part of that experience.
00:39:27
You know the other one is using our
00:39:28
online shopping. If you don't use it
00:39:30
then you don't know what a customer is
00:39:31
seeing.
00:39:32
>> So you must be doing things that
00:39:34
customers are doing all the time. And
00:39:35
just quickly back to that you know not
00:39:37
knowing the word supply chain the word I
00:39:38
love the most that came out of that time
00:39:40
is essential worker.
00:39:42
Um because you know these these folks
00:39:44
who are the most important you know we
00:39:46
you know in our building our cafeteria
00:39:49
is shared with our warehouse team and
00:39:51
our office team. So there's high visas
00:39:53
and you know shirts sitting around and
00:39:56
that is one of the most important parts
00:39:58
about culture is that you know every job
00:40:00
is valued and the coolest thing out of
00:40:02
that was people went essential workers
00:40:04
is is something to be proud of and being
00:40:07
able to tell those members of our team
00:40:08
what you do matters to families just
00:40:10
like yours really mattered.
00:40:12
>> Yeah. I I found it particularly
00:40:14
heartbreaking a second ago where you
00:40:15
talked about some of the staff like
00:40:16
getting a bollocking at church or
00:40:17
whatever because they do they do they do
00:40:19
a great job. You talk about the culture.
00:40:21
Um, having been in the position where I
00:40:23
live right next door to a supermarket,
00:40:25
um, I I can I can see how much um, the
00:40:29
comradeship and the culture meant to
00:40:31
those staff that work there. It wasn't
00:40:32
just a job, it was like a community.
00:40:34
>> Yeah, absolutely it is. And and they've,
00:40:36
you know, we spend at least a third of
00:40:38
our lives at work. So, you know,
00:40:40
relationships, children, changes,
00:40:43
tragedies would have all happened in the
00:40:45
lunchroom,
00:40:46
>> you know, and all been discussed and
00:40:47
supported and thought about. one of the
00:40:50
nicest things that's happened in in my
00:40:52
time and I'm very careful never to claim
00:40:54
credit for something I didn't do. So,
00:40:55
you know, I always try and go the you
00:40:57
know, the team did this, but this is one
00:41:00
I did pick up and sponsored at least and
00:41:02
then got a lot of people to do. But, um,
00:41:04
we had a very early on in my time, we
00:41:06
had a real tragedy with one of the
00:41:07
leadership team got sick and passed from
00:41:10
cancer.
00:41:11
>> Um, and what the organization did in
00:41:13
response to that to support his family
00:41:15
was incredible. um it meant that his
00:41:18
three kids got educated right through to
00:41:20
the Indian university.
00:41:21
>> So it was you know and you sort of look
00:41:23
at that and go I'm proud of that and
00:41:25
then you went why just for that given
00:41:27
we've got 24,000 people there's so many
00:41:29
of these stories going on.
00:41:31
>> So build a thing called the foodies
00:41:33
foundation. So basically what it does is
00:41:35
it's for our 24,000 families. Uh and a
00:41:40
lot of us put money in out of pay
00:41:41
regularly. You're just you know just
00:41:43
payroll giving. We run a lot of
00:41:44
fundraising events. We run big auctions
00:41:46
and our owners, you know, have a couple
00:41:48
of wines, then buy stuff they shouldn't
00:41:50
for more than they ever should. And it
00:41:52
just puts money in the tin for this
00:41:53
amazing foundation. Um, and to date, I I
00:41:56
didn't check the number before, but
00:41:57
it'll be nearly 1,000 families supported
00:42:01
um across 5 years. Um, and basically
00:42:04
what it does is if an issue hits, so
00:42:05
there's a domestic violence or there's a
00:42:08
diagnosis or something, they can contact
00:42:11
uh our trustees who are just people from
00:42:13
all over the organization. It's not a
00:42:15
hierarchical thing. And just say, "I'm
00:42:17
in trouble. I need help." And they can
00:42:18
get $5,000 in their hands in 24 hours.
00:42:21
>> Wow. That's so cool.
00:42:22
>> Yeah. And it's, you know, it just keeps
00:42:25
going in the organization. People pick
00:42:27
it up and take it forward, run it, put
00:42:30
their time into it, you know, and it and
00:42:31
it delivers for people in amazing
00:42:34
situations
00:42:34
>> and tragic situations.
00:42:36
>> Oh, nice stuff. Thanks for sharing that,
00:42:38
Chris. Um, we touched upon your
00:42:40
childhood and your parents um earlier,
00:42:42
but um I heard a story. Were you
00:42:44
headunted to be head boy of St. Pat?
00:42:48
I've never ever heard of this happening
00:42:50
before. It's probably overstating it.
00:42:52
>> Shoulder tap,
00:42:53
>> but shoulder tap. Yeah, it was it I
00:42:55
can't remember where I said it. I don't
00:42:56
know how you found out. Um but you know,
00:42:59
I was thinking about, you know,
00:43:00
leadership and when you first get
00:43:02
challenged with it. Um and St. Pat
00:43:04
Silverstream was a boarding school and
00:43:06
day school. So there was a head boy of
00:43:07
each, you know, sort of one of each. And
00:43:09
and a fantastic guy, Tony Egan was the
00:43:12
head uh border. Um and I remember in the
00:43:15
last week of six form, one of the you
00:43:17
know, one of the priests saying, "Hey,
00:43:19
are you coming back next year because
00:43:20
we'd like to talk to you about this?"
00:43:22
And you're like, you know, "Have I just
00:43:23
been headunted?
00:43:25
What was the package?" Nothing. Um so
00:43:28
>> terrible negotiation. Good lesson there.
00:43:31
>> Yeah. But um yeah, it was you just sort
00:43:33
of I don't think until that point I'd
00:43:36
ever thought that I was someone who
00:43:38
would you know be like that or you know
00:43:40
stand out. Um
00:43:42
>> you never really considered that you
00:43:44
know I never thought about running at it
00:43:45
or or doing it. You just went, "Oh,
00:43:47
okay."
00:43:48
>> You know, yes.
00:43:49
>> Well, a school like that um like there's
00:43:51
a lot of testosterone. There's a lot of
00:43:53
um a lot of alpha sort of males, a lot
00:43:55
of big personalities. What made you
00:43:57
stand out? Will you do you think do you
00:43:59
think leaders are like born or made?
00:44:02
>> Uh
00:44:04
I I do think in the end there's some
00:44:06
things you can't make.
00:44:08
>> Um so there's some basic you know I
00:44:10
think about leadership you know everyone
00:44:11
says what do you think leadership is and
00:44:12
you go look it's it's a a lot of things
00:44:15
but it is a set of behaviors not a set
00:44:17
of tasks. So someone who's made a
00:44:19
manager is not a leader. That's just
00:44:21
you've just been made a manager.
00:44:23
Leadership is your choice about your
00:44:25
behaviors. Uh, and the simplest
00:44:27
definition I've ever sort of found and
00:44:29
stuck to is connection, you know, so
00:44:31
being really connected, the ability to
00:44:33
engage and to know customers, people,
00:44:35
teams, whatever stakeholders. Um,
00:44:38
clarity because in a in a busier and
00:44:40
busier and busier world, leadership's a
00:44:42
bit about going, you know what, we're
00:44:43
going there, whatever there is. And then
00:44:46
the ability to generate and deliver
00:44:47
action. So, you know, making people move
00:44:50
forward, getting somewhere, monitoring
00:44:52
it, supporting it, getting a result. So,
00:44:55
it's connection, clarity, and action.
00:44:57
Um, I still don't know why I got got
00:44:59
picked out in six months.
00:45:00
>> Yeah. Why? Yeah. I mean, the um the
00:45:03
brother or the priest must have seen
00:45:04
something in you that maybe you couldn't
00:45:06
even see in yourself at that point.
00:45:07
>> I think a lot of leadership now and I
00:45:10
think it doesn't matter what your style
00:45:12
is cuz everyone's style is different,
00:45:14
you know, but communication is
00:45:16
inescapable in leadership. If you can't
00:45:18
connect through communication, it's
00:45:20
really that's going to be a problem. Um,
00:45:23
so I do think maybe that was the bit
00:45:25
that stood out a bit. Um, when I look
00:45:27
back, you know, I go, if if if I'm any
00:45:30
good at anything, one of the things is
00:45:31
sort of communicating with some
00:45:34
authenticity and clarity out of quite
00:45:37
complex pieces. You know, I can
00:45:39
sometimes hear a whole lot of stuff and
00:45:40
go, look, I think this is about donk and
00:45:43
you know,
00:45:44
>> um, so maybe you
00:45:45
>> were you always pretty good at that
00:45:47
communication aspect or is that
00:45:48
something you've had to work on?
00:45:49
>> I've definitely had to work on. Yeah.
00:45:51
like you know I was lucky you know it
00:45:54
was a college that had you know
00:45:56
appreciation for arts as much as sport
00:45:59
so you or debating things like that were
00:46:01
all part of what everybody did you know
00:46:03
you know it didn't make you soft um and
00:46:06
um you know so it was great to you know
00:46:08
just do that I did a bit of that at
00:46:10
university as well and you just sort of
00:46:11
you know
00:46:12
>> yeah I think if there is something I'm
00:46:13
lucky to have it's a it's a
00:46:15
communication ability
00:46:17
>> yeah so you you went to university
00:46:18
studied accounting and law What did you
00:46:21
want to be?
00:46:22
>> Oh, employed. So, um, look, you know, a
00:46:27
business felt right. Accounting seemed
00:46:30
like a profession that would, you know,
00:46:32
go some way. Law was probably more of a
00:46:34
interest and passion. You know, I was
00:46:36
quite, you know, I enjoyed it. Um, and,
00:46:39
you know, first job was was in a, you
00:46:41
know, very much an accounting role. You
00:46:43
know, it was in a in a paint factory,
00:46:45
ICI paints in Gracefield in Lower Hut.
00:46:47
Um, and you learned the very basics of
00:46:49
how a product is made and how it's
00:46:51
transitioned through channels.
00:46:53
>> It funny, one of the things we did there
00:46:55
was take the retail businesses and
00:46:57
franchise them out, you know, to
00:46:59
independent owners. I look back now and
00:47:00
go, you know, it's such a New Zealand
00:47:03
model.
00:47:04
>> From there, did you go to is that when
00:47:06
you went to Telecom?
00:47:07
>> No, there was two roughly two-year
00:47:10
roles. So when I finished university
00:47:12
went to ICI paints and Gracefield as a
00:47:15
um a divisional accountant or company
00:47:17
accountant and then I went to Mel as in
00:47:19
an accounting roles uh supporting the
00:47:22
CFO that was a a small technology
00:47:25
company sort of less than 100 people um
00:47:27
right at the beginning of big you know
00:47:29
PABX systems and data systems and things
00:47:32
like that. um a lot of fun, you know,
00:47:34
and and got connected with the world of
00:47:38
sales and the world of marketing and you
00:47:39
know, some really large characters and
00:47:41
some pretty outrageous behaviors and but
00:47:44
also the technology cycles were moving
00:47:46
fast and they missed the beginning of
00:47:48
call center which meant the business um
00:47:51
they ended up deciding to pull out of
00:47:52
New Zealand. We sold the rights for the
00:47:55
technology to distribute it to telecom
00:47:58
>> and that's where that move happened.
00:47:59
>> So what year was that? Uh 1991,
00:48:02
>> right?
00:48:03
>> Yeah.
00:48:04
>> Yeah. What was telecom like when you
00:48:05
first joined?
00:48:06
>> Uh so different. Um there were five
00:48:09
telecoms. So it was Telecom Wellington
00:48:11
that I joined. There was a central
00:48:13
Oakland and two in the South Island at
00:48:15
the time. Uh there was over 25,000
00:48:17
people in Telecom. I think I read
00:48:19
yesterday there's now 4,000 in Spark.
00:48:22
>> Wow.
00:48:22
>> Uh and and and it was the beginning of
00:48:25
this was pre-mobile.
00:48:27
>> Um you know, hard to believe. I think I
00:48:29
got one of the first mobile phones. I
00:48:31
managed to bag one literally and they
00:48:34
were a bag. It was about the size of an
00:48:36
A4 pad.
00:48:37
>> Massive.
00:48:38
>> You unzipped it and pulled out the
00:48:40
handset that had a curly cord to the
00:48:42
device and stuck up the aerial
00:48:43
>> and calls were like eight bucks a minute
00:48:44
or something.
00:48:45
>> Yeah. You know, no one can afford to
00:48:46
make one of those. Um and you know, it
00:48:49
was the beginning. So, it was such a
00:48:50
incredible time because the technology
00:48:52
rush that was coming through. Things
00:48:54
were changing so fast. Did you Oh, I've
00:48:56
got um Dame Theresa Gadden coming in for
00:48:58
a podcast next week. Did you Did you
00:49:00
work under her? Was she there at that
00:49:01
time?
00:49:02
>> Yeah, I wasn't in her leadership team. I
00:49:03
was next level, but um yeah, Theresa was
00:49:06
CEO for quite a while.
00:49:07
>> Yeah.
00:49:08
>> Yeah. How was she? Anything anything you
00:49:10
learned from her or got from her that I
00:49:12
could bring up when she comes in?
00:49:13
>> Yeah. Look, a hugely dynamic leader. Um
00:49:16
intelligent, you know, very,
00:49:19
>> you know, she was I'm trying to remember
00:49:20
exactly. I hope I don't misquote her. I
00:49:22
think she was 37 or 38 when made CEO.
00:49:24
That's wild, eh?
00:49:25
>> Um, and as a female, you know,
00:49:26
unfortunately at a time where
00:49:28
>> that felt odd to people, which it never
00:49:30
should have. Um,
00:49:31
>> you know, it was an incredible
00:49:32
achievement, you know, so not only about
00:49:35
her capability, but about a chairman
00:49:37
that believed in her and about, you
00:49:40
know, leadership team. I look at that
00:49:42
leadership team at the time. So, Simon
00:49:44
Mutter, a Marco Bogawi, people like
00:49:47
that. You know it was a very very strong
00:49:49
environment that that organization over
00:49:52
the years has built some amazing
00:49:53
leaders.
00:49:56
>> Yeah. Of which you were you were one and
00:49:58
you were there for over over 20 years.
00:49:59
So many uh telco changes in that time
00:50:01
like you mentioned um cell cellular
00:50:03
phones before but also the internet.
00:50:05
Yes.
00:50:06
>> Um I suppose fax machines were a big
00:50:08
item when you first were they the hot
00:50:10
ticket item?
00:50:10
>> They were they we I remember when I
00:50:13
joined you know there wasn't sales as
00:50:15
such. There was people taking orders
00:50:17
because there was no other game in town.
00:50:18
Uh, and you had people who were called
00:50:21
salespeople standing by fax machines
00:50:23
receiving orders faxed in from
00:50:24
customers. You know, I reckon if I
00:50:26
showed my kids a fax machine now, they'd
00:50:28
go, "That's amazing." Like the piece of
00:50:29
paper goes from here to here. You think,
00:50:32
you know, it's just so, you know, I also
00:50:35
look at people in rotary dial phones
00:50:36
now. I don't think a lot of kids would
00:50:37
know how to use one.
00:50:39
>> It's wild, eh? The changes that we've
00:50:41
seen. So, massive changes in um the
00:50:42
telco industry over that time. Um, yeah.
00:50:45
What about you personally? What changes
00:50:46
in Chris Quinn over that time?
00:50:48
>> Oh, you know, everything changed. You
00:50:50
know, you you got married, you had a
00:50:53
family.
00:50:54
>> Uh you we shifted to Oakuckland, you
00:50:56
know. Um so everything about life
00:50:58
changed to some extent. But also in that
00:51:01
in that industry roughly every 3 years
00:51:03
you change jobs.
00:51:05
>> Um and the thing it sort of taught me
00:51:07
was there's trade-offs in big companies
00:51:09
cuz some people go, you know, big
00:51:10
corporates it's got, you know, a lot of
00:51:12
drag with it. what you do get is
00:51:15
recognized for who you are wider than
00:51:17
the job you do.
00:51:18
>> So, you know, I often say to people who
00:51:20
are doing the, you know, tell me what to
00:51:21
do with my career, which I always find a
00:51:24
really tricky question. But in a small
00:51:26
company, you're always going to be what
00:51:27
you are. So, if you're the accountant,
00:51:29
you're the accountant. When you look for
00:51:30
roles maybe in another place, they go,
00:51:32
well, you're an accountant. In a bigger
00:51:34
company, they go, look, we think we know
00:51:36
the person. We know their wider skill
00:51:38
set. We've seen them be very good at
00:51:39
this. They might have done a project. So
00:51:41
your chance to grow your career, you
00:51:43
know, and I think change hunters really
00:51:46
matter. You should look around for the
00:51:48
challenges and go and have a go. And and
00:51:50
the one thing I try and say to people is
00:51:52
one, get into a role where you're
00:51:53
leading people, you know, so you can
00:51:55
show that you can do that. Secondly, in
00:51:58
a role where you can go, I took a
00:52:00
business from here to here. I doubled
00:52:02
its turnover. I did something that I can
00:52:04
point at cuz what people care about is
00:52:07
what outcomes did you drive not did you
00:52:08
work hard cuz everyone does. Uh and you
00:52:12
know think about industries. Am I on an
00:52:14
industry that's heading uphill um rather
00:52:16
than one on the down because on the down
00:52:17
can be quite hard work.
00:52:20
>> Yeah. And that's never been more
00:52:21
appropriate now than with um the rapidly
00:52:24
developing AI saying
00:52:27
>> just the amount of jobs that'll be
00:52:28
obsolete in the coming years.
00:52:29
>> Yeah. That is such a you know a
00:52:32
mindblowing story right now. Uh you know
00:52:35
will the jobs be obsolete or will we
00:52:37
find new jobs? You know I I
00:52:39
>> I really believe that what it's going to
00:52:41
do is two things. One it's going to make
00:52:44
everybody's job move up the value chain.
00:52:46
>> So the things that you do are of the
00:52:48
least value that's probably going to get
00:52:49
automated.
00:52:50
>> Secondly there are going to be services
00:52:52
and things people do have not thought of
00:52:54
that will come to light. You know we're
00:52:56
still humans. We're still going to want
00:52:58
to be entertained. We're still going to
00:52:59
want to have great experiences. You
00:53:01
know, we were talking about it today
00:53:02
with a group of my store owners going,
00:53:04
you know, will people just use an agent
00:53:06
to do the grocery shop and never come
00:53:08
in. And you go, well, they've been able
00:53:10
to do that for quite a few years with
00:53:11
e-commerce and they're still coming in
00:53:13
because people get joy from shopping for
00:53:15
food.
00:53:15
>> You know, it's an experience. You know,
00:53:17
there there are very few people. Right
00:53:20
now, about 5% of our sales are done
00:53:23
through online. About 50% of our
00:53:26
customers use it. But what it means is
00:53:28
they're using it occasionally for some
00:53:29
things and most often they're coming
00:53:31
into shop.
00:53:32
>> So we're mostly doing a joint.
00:53:34
>> You know, we still want a human
00:53:36
experience.
00:53:37
>> That makes sense. You see so many people
00:53:39
um like bliss probably blissfully
00:53:40
unaware that they're doing it, but
00:53:42
wandering the aisles singing.
00:53:44
>> That's something I I Are you a singer?
00:53:47
>> Hell no.
00:53:48
>> Just humming away to whatever's playing
00:53:50
through the speakers.
00:53:50
>> Me singing in a store is really bad for
00:53:52
turnover. Um, what you do see quite
00:53:55
often is men like me wandering the
00:53:56
aisles looking. You know, I know I need
00:53:58
this. I don't know what aisle it's in.
00:54:00
>> Oh, yeah. I get that, too. Yeah. My
00:54:01
partner will send me like photos of
00:54:03
items that she wants and it's like, I've
00:54:04
looked everywhere. I can't find it. Um,
00:54:07
so during that time at um Telecom and
00:54:09
then Spark, um, is there a moment that
00:54:12
stands out where you thought actually I
00:54:13
might be quite good at this leadership
00:54:14
thing?
00:54:16
Uh look, I think you know crisis
00:54:19
unfortunately
00:54:21
also builds leaders. Um and there's a
00:54:24
thing about crisis where you go so how
00:54:26
do I get the behaviors that you get
00:54:27
during a crisis all of the time. Um but
00:54:30
you know the the ones that stand out a
00:54:32
little bit the XT mobile network I don't
00:54:34
know if you know you remember that um
00:54:36
but I reckon a bunch of listeners will
00:54:39
and that was a classic example you know
00:54:40
we were behind in technology so we had
00:54:43
mo we had 2G mobile technology which
00:54:45
meant our customers couldn't text you
00:54:47
imagine that now like
00:54:49
>> no one would be on our network or that
00:54:51
network so we built this new network it
00:54:53
was called the XT network and it was
00:54:54
going to be the latest and greatest
00:54:55
thing um I remember the conversations
00:54:58
was about should we go slowly, make sure
00:55:00
it's working, you know, make sure
00:55:02
capacity is okay. And there was such a
00:55:04
fervor about going fast that we did. And
00:55:07
within 4 to 6 weeks, it stopped working,
00:55:11
you know, and so you've got hundreds of
00:55:13
thousands of users on it. This is one of
00:55:15
the biggest profile technology launches
00:55:17
and it stops. Um, and what made it sort
00:55:20
of worse was it was worse the further
00:55:23
south you went. So, you know, Oakland
00:55:26
not as bad as Deneden, you know, so you
00:55:28
can imagine the, you know, so this was a
00:55:31
daily news, media updates, fronting sort
00:55:34
of thing. I was running the business and
00:55:37
government team, so every business
00:55:39
customer was mine. Uh, and yeah, you
00:55:43
just go, "Oh crap." You know, like, so
00:55:45
you're fronting it. You're trying to get
00:55:47
information from your technology guys
00:55:48
going, "When's this going to be fixed?"
00:55:49
You're trying to talk to customers. Um,
00:55:52
and I ended up, you know, two or three
00:55:53
times a week sending four or 5 thousand
00:55:55
emails, you know, I'd written under my
00:55:58
name going, "This is where we are.
00:56:00
>> This is what we're trying to do to help
00:56:01
you. Do you want us to roll you back? Do
00:56:02
you want us to shift you to a
00:56:03
competitor? Cuz we'll do what we need to
00:56:05
do to not affect your business." Um, so
00:56:09
that was a, you know, an incredible
00:56:10
time, you know, TV, everything. Um, um,
00:56:14
so quite a thing. And then I do remember
00:56:16
vividly afterwards we did what we called
00:56:18
the Nationwide Apology Tour. Um, so hit
00:56:21
the road and I went to, you know, you
00:56:23
went to your chambers of commerce, your
00:56:24
business communities, and just said,
00:56:26
"We're coming to town. We're going to
00:56:27
tell you what happened. We're going to
00:56:28
apologize. We want to hear from you."
00:56:31
And I I remember being in Deneden
00:56:34
driving up, I think it's Ratray Street,
00:56:35
so it goes past the telephone exchange
00:56:37
there. And a car came out of a side
00:56:39
street and t-boned the car I was in. It
00:56:41
was with one of the sales reps who'd
00:56:42
picked me up at the airport. And I was
00:56:44
sitting there covered in the window
00:56:46
glass going, "They're really angry,
00:56:47
aren't they?
00:56:51
I don't think it was deliberate, but
00:56:52
yeah,
00:56:53
>> cuz that must have been an incredibly
00:56:54
stressful time.
00:56:55
>> Yeah, it it
00:56:58
the you know cuz the next one inside the
00:57:00
telecom days was the Christ Church
00:57:02
earthquakes. Um and the business unit
00:57:04
that I was running at the time I had 143
00:57:07
staff in the square. So there were three
00:57:08
buildings around the square and
00:57:10
>> the exchange building and a couple of
00:57:12
others. So it was you know it was the
00:57:15
that day was incredible cuz it was so
00:57:17
hard to get clarity. you didn't really
00:57:18
know what had happened.
00:57:19
>> Then you find out what had happened and
00:57:22
you you very quickly develop a process.
00:57:24
So these events and we're seeing sadly
00:57:26
so many of them like this year we've
00:57:27
already seen two decent weather events
00:57:29
that have had impact. Um you know you
00:57:32
firstly go job one are our people safe
00:57:34
and how do we find out and how do we
00:57:36
know? Um job two what a role do we play
00:57:39
in the community right now? You know
00:57:41
because if our team is safe then our job
00:57:43
is the community. Today it's food. back
00:57:45
then it was how do we get them connected
00:57:47
so that emergency services can do their
00:57:49
job and people can find people and all
00:57:50
of those things. the my reflection on
00:57:53
that new then you go to co then you go
00:57:55
know there's been so many of these
00:57:57
moments for New Zealand leaders and what
00:57:59
I see happen is um collaboration goes
00:58:02
through the roof you know so people who
00:58:03
are a bit unhelpful or you know
00:58:06
self-centered suddenly go what do I need
00:58:08
to do what do I need to do to support
00:58:10
you how do we you know how do we
00:58:11
collaborate um accountability goes
00:58:13
through the roof so if you say you're
00:58:14
going to do something by a date and a
00:58:15
time you do because it's got a purpose
00:58:18
uh communication you know people lift
00:58:20
communication and that's what you must
00:58:21
do and then innovation. You know,
00:58:23
sometimes the things we did post
00:58:26
earthquake like, you know, we need a new
00:58:27
data center somewhere. Well, you know,
00:58:28
normally that would be a year-long
00:58:29
business case planning so you just went,
00:58:32
"Okay, do it. Got a week.
00:58:33
>> How do we make this happen?"
00:58:35
>> Um, you know, Oakland floods, what are
00:58:38
we talking three and a bit years ago
00:58:40
now? Um,
00:58:41
>> you know, our biggest impact was pack
00:58:43
and say Wra Park. Um, that store has
00:58:45
50,000 customers a day go through it and
00:58:47
it was couple of meters deep. you know
00:58:50
that that it's hard to imagine when you
00:58:52
go through it now. We had to strip it
00:58:54
entirely, replace all the refrigeration,
00:58:57
all the shelving, all of the product,
00:58:59
all of the back of house and get it open
00:59:01
again to trade in seven days and nights,
00:59:04
you know, and you look at that and go, I
00:59:07
had some incredible leaders who planned
00:59:08
that, executed it. The store team were
00:59:11
unbelievable.
00:59:12
>> You know, you stand back, the stuff you
00:59:14
don't understand. Where do you get all
00:59:15
the refrigeration from? you know, you
00:59:16
you go to stores you haven't finished
00:59:18
building and take it. You you know, how
00:59:21
do you get rid of 100 tons of food? Um,
00:59:24
all of those things.
00:59:26
>> Yeah. You sort of alluded to alluded to
00:59:28
this earlier in the podcast, but that
00:59:30
sort of um collaboration in a disaster
00:59:32
or a crisis. Yeah. How is there any way
00:59:34
that can be duplicated in dayto-day?
00:59:36
>> That's exactly the right question is,
00:59:37
you know, so collaboration,
00:59:39
communication, innovation,
00:59:40
accountability, they're things you'd
00:59:42
love to have every day. So I think the
00:59:45
difference is sense of purpose. So in a
00:59:48
crisis, everyone has a really high sense
00:59:50
of purpose.
00:59:51
>> You know, one of our stores just quietly
00:59:54
with the help from our he New Zealand
00:59:55
fund supported the emergency services
00:59:58
workers at the mount earlier this year.
01:00:00
>> 7,000 meals just delivered. You know,
01:00:02
cuz you look and go, these people are
01:00:04
working hard. They're working long
01:00:05
shifts. It's pretty emotionally
01:00:07
difficult work. How do we make sure
01:00:09
they've got a, you know, hot cup of tea
01:00:10
and and a sandwich and just, you know,
01:00:12
look after that? And and that store has
01:00:15
never had to do that work before. They
01:00:17
just worked it out because people had
01:00:19
our purpose.
01:00:20
>> Um, and that's I think as a leadership
01:00:22
thing, you keep thinking, okay, how do I
01:00:24
establish purpose in this work?
01:00:26
>> I suppose that sense of purpose gives
01:00:27
people also a sense of urgency that is
01:00:29
otherwise missing.
01:00:30
>> Yeah. Yeah. And also the collaboration,
01:00:32
you know, me trying to be better than
01:00:33
you feels silly. Not just what do I need
01:00:35
to do? What do you need to do?
01:00:39
Um, oh, what was it like being at
01:00:40
Telecom when it switched to Spark? What
01:00:42
What did you think of the name change?
01:00:44
Names, names are funny things, aren't
01:00:45
they? Like Vodafone going to one and
01:00:47
when you first hear one, you're like,
01:00:48
what is what is what is one? That's
01:00:50
weird. It must been the same as Spark.
01:00:52
>> Spark's part of the vernacular now, but
01:00:54
it seems very odd at the time.
01:00:55
>> Yes. Yeah. It's like a lot of moments
01:00:58
like that. There are probably a hundred
01:01:00
people who would say I did that. So, so
01:01:04
I was I was leading the home and mobile
01:01:07
division. So, that was the bit that you
01:01:08
know was at the core of renaming it
01:01:10
Spark, but Simon was CEO and um had
01:01:13
Andrew Stone and a couple of other
01:01:15
people and and Jason Paris, you know,
01:01:16
there was a leadership group around that
01:01:18
and everybody contributed to making that
01:01:20
happen. That was one of those where you
01:01:22
stand back and go look you know what
01:01:24
would be required to make telecom loved
01:01:27
versus what's required to establish a
01:01:28
new brand
01:01:29
>> you know and you you actually you know
01:01:31
that was the first part of the work was
01:01:32
how do you get that you make a decision
01:01:35
and then we made the decision it's going
01:01:37
to be a better journey to change the
01:01:38
name so let's do it was going to be too
01:01:40
hard to undo people's longheld
01:01:42
perception of telecom uh and it had a
01:01:45
whole lot of history that was useful to
01:01:48
maybe park and build new history um you
01:01:50
then So, but you can't do it overnight
01:01:52
cuz all you'll do is put lipstick on a
01:01:53
pig, you know, and it doesn't make the
01:01:56
pig any better looking. It just makes
01:01:57
them unhappy. So, um, so then go, okay,
01:02:01
how do we earn the right to change the
01:02:03
brand? And that was quite a big program
01:02:05
of getting pricing right, service right.
01:02:08
It was about a year, year and a half,
01:02:09
like there was quite a while before we
01:02:11
did it. We didn't know what the brand
01:02:12
was going to be. That was just we'd
01:02:14
agreed to change it. Um, then you go to
01:02:17
choosing the name. And look, I am not a
01:02:19
brand marketer. So I smile when they
01:02:21
come in and go this means this and this
01:02:23
color means peace and this means harm
01:02:24
and you just go
01:02:26
>> you're the expert.
01:02:27
>> Yeah, sure.
01:02:29
But you know there was in the end I
01:02:32
always believe and and you sort of noted
01:02:34
it the brand will become what people
01:02:36
experience over time.
01:02:37
>> The actual name you know you look around
01:02:40
at the world's best brands there's some
01:02:41
pretty odd brands you know but it's what
01:02:43
we believe they are that matters.
01:02:45
>> Yeah.
01:02:45
>> So
01:02:46
>> I do remember I was in Europe when we
01:02:48
launched. I think we have one of our
01:02:49
launches was briefing all of our
01:02:51
investors. We're going to change it and
01:02:52
this is the brand and it was about 3:00
01:02:54
in the morning. I was in some hotel room
01:02:56
somewhere in Spain, I think. And um you
01:02:58
know, I was on a speaking part, you
01:03:00
know, saying this is what we're going to
01:03:02
call it. And I remember the first
01:03:04
question on the you know, had one of
01:03:05
those automated question things was, "Do
01:03:07
you know that's crap spelled backwards,
01:03:12
sparkers?"
01:03:13
>> And you went, "No, never thought of
01:03:16
that." Um you know so it's funny a name
01:03:20
any name someone will try and find that
01:03:22
thing and you go you know what you just
01:03:23
got to be committed
01:03:24
>> so commitment to executing it
01:03:26
brilliantly is going to overcome
01:03:28
everything.
01:03:29
>> Well after a while it just becomes an
01:03:31
entity on it. Look look at stuff is the
01:03:33
the weirdest name for a news website.
01:03:35
>> Yeah.
01:03:36
>> Um so did you you didn't sign off on the
01:03:39
squiggle logo?
01:03:40
>> No. No. The cat's bum.
01:03:43
>> Oh the cat's bum. I've never thought
01:03:45
that. That's what a lot of people Yeah.
01:03:47
Yeah.
01:03:47
>> Yeah. Look, the great new, you know,
01:03:49
great news about social media and about
01:03:50
open environments is everyone's
01:03:52
opinion's easily available. So,
01:03:54
>> so you went for the CEO role twice. Um,
01:03:58
I've heard a quote from you saying, "You
01:03:59
were too short the first time, too tall
01:04:01
the next." Um, which is a great quote.
01:04:03
>> That's not fair on Simon.
01:04:06
>> Um, yeah, that must have been incredibly
01:04:09
disappointing.
01:04:10
>> Uh, yes. and uh energizing in a funny
01:04:14
way after a while. Um
01:04:16
>> you know so you know Paul Reynolds was
01:04:18
the too short one. He was the 6'8
01:04:20
Scotsman you know so was never going to
01:04:22
compete with that. Um and second time
01:04:25
you know probably first time was a bit
01:04:27
of a longshot moment. Second time you
01:04:29
know I I don't think I'm inaccurate in
01:04:32
saying I was probably an internal
01:04:33
candidate that was in the set. Um
01:04:35
however what it taught me one you know
01:04:37
one you know so I'm an incredible leader
01:04:39
delivered amazingly deserves you know
01:04:42
deserved the role and absolutely did the
01:04:43
best job anyone could do no question um
01:04:46
and also you look at it and go there was
01:04:48
a moment there where the change required
01:04:50
was so extreme
01:04:52
>> that it can be incredibly difficult to
01:04:54
do it from longtime experience
01:04:55
internally it's just hard to let go of
01:04:57
everything you know and believe and
01:04:59
sometimes you have to come in and go I'm
01:05:01
just not going to get stuck in some of
01:05:04
those
01:05:05
Um um the other thing you know you
01:05:07
learned a lot about the perspective that
01:05:09
a CEO needs to bring to the
01:05:10
organization. So I had the most
01:05:12
brilliant detailed plan for the board.
01:05:14
What they needed was inspiration and
01:05:16
vision. So you know that was another you
01:05:19
know was a really valuable lesson. I
01:05:21
remember you know you agonize for a
01:05:23
while cuz I am a competitive soul. um
01:05:26
you know so you go I lost and I hate
01:05:27
losing you know and you go so why did I
01:05:29
lose and you you ask a few supporters
01:05:31
and mentors you know why did you lose
01:05:33
>> and one of them got sick of me asking
01:05:35
and he just said Chris you are not you
01:05:37
know they did not choose you that's it
01:05:40
that's the answer there is nothing else
01:05:42
so stop looking for it you know the next
01:05:45
question is what do you want to do for
01:05:46
the next one
01:05:47
>> you know and and and once you get to
01:05:49
that acceptance then you go okay I'll
01:05:51
stop being a victim about this and um
01:05:55
And it was, you know, I originally
01:05:57
decided get out of the way, you know,
01:06:00
no, I I would refuse to be a slightly
01:06:02
annoyed sort of second place guy hanging
01:06:04
around. Um, Simon was brilliant. He sort
01:06:07
of said, "Look, I, you know, I need you
01:06:09
to do something else cuz this business
01:06:10
needs fixing. Give me 3 years, you know,
01:06:12
and then we can shake hands
01:06:14
>> and I will give you the room to do it."
01:06:15
And he did and we, you know, we had a
01:06:17
great time getting it done. Um, and it
01:06:19
and it finished, you know, really
01:06:21
positively with a great successor and
01:06:24
all of those things. So, you know,
01:06:26
>> I was I was going to ask you if it um if
01:06:29
it like damaged your ego in any way or
01:06:31
if you sold for a while, but I feel like
01:06:33
maybe you've sort of potentially
01:06:34
answered that with the last answer.
01:06:35
>> Yeah. Yes.
01:06:36
>> You can't Well, yeah. You can't help but
01:06:38
feel a little bit personally attacked, I
01:06:40
guess, in a way.
01:06:40
>> Yeah. Not not attacked, just, you know,
01:06:42
disappointed, you know, in yourself. You
01:06:44
know, I think most
01:06:46
>> most most people who are, you know,
01:06:48
relatively achievement driven and and
01:06:50
want to have an impact are hard on
01:06:52
themselves. You know, I think it's part
01:06:54
of what you drive. Um, it's really
01:06:56
important that you've also got to go and
01:06:58
I'm no nor less than I was before.
01:07:01
>> It's just this moment,
01:07:03
>> you know, but it also equipped me really
01:07:06
well for what happened next. So,
01:07:08
>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's all the
01:07:10
things you've talked about, all the
01:07:11
little things like the the apology tour
01:07:13
with the the 2G thing, um the Christ
01:07:15
Church earthquake, all these things are
01:07:17
sort of sharpening the axe, eh, like uh
01:07:19
and and adversity is hard to go through
01:07:21
for anyone, but um it does build
01:07:23
resilience and also it prepares you for
01:07:25
what's coming next. Was it hard to leave
01:07:27
after that long? Why didn't why didn't
01:07:28
you just sort of stay there and get
01:07:30
comfortable and
01:07:31
>> Oh, I think um because I knew I had
01:07:34
more,
01:07:35
>> you know, I one of the things the
01:07:38
organization did for me, the Spark
01:07:39
organization was say, "Hey, look, you
01:07:41
know, let's get you into worldass
01:07:43
development experience." So, I did six
01:07:44
weeks at Stanford um in October 2014. Uh
01:07:49
and you know, that was a great chance to
01:07:51
get out um to live in a different place.
01:07:53
You're living on campus like a student
01:07:55
was great. um and with a global set of
01:07:58
leaders, you know. So, and all of those
01:08:00
experiences I always think about, you
01:08:02
learn half from the class, half from the
01:08:03
colleagues,
01:08:04
>> you know, and so that's the it's the
01:08:05
beers at night. It's the conversations,
01:08:07
it's the dinners, it's the I I ran San
01:08:10
Francisco marathon while I was there
01:08:11
with a few of them, you know, those
01:08:12
things you do, you learn so much more
01:08:14
from as much as the classes.
01:08:16
>> Having said that, they were world
01:08:17
classes, you know, sort of global
01:08:19
figures lecturing.
01:08:21
um came back and one of the things they
01:08:24
one of the classes I remember it quite
01:08:26
vividly they said write a six-word story
01:08:28
about your next step and I gave some
01:08:31
examples you know and and so I ended up
01:08:33
writing just much good done not done yet
01:08:38
and you know it was it really helped me
01:08:40
because I was able to go much good done
01:08:42
be proud of where you are be okay with
01:08:44
all of it but also not done yet
01:08:48
>> if you were to write that um sixword
01:08:50
story today what What would I say?
01:08:51
>> I'd say the same.
01:08:52
>> Yeah. Yep. I really would.
01:08:55
>> Um, you know, and 10 years is a long
01:08:58
time in a CEO role. You know, that's
01:08:59
it's unusual, but there is, you know,
01:09:02
there's been phases to that that have
01:09:04
meant it wasn't right to do anything
01:09:05
different. But that much good done, not
01:09:07
done yet. That is still true.
01:09:09
>> What would you want to do next? What
01:09:11
would your dream job be?
01:09:13
>> Uh, look, I don't know yet. I don't know
01:09:15
today. You do. You just can't say. You
01:09:17
don't want to say.
01:09:18
>> I'm not looking right now. uh you know
01:09:20
there is a job still to do you know and
01:09:24
>> uh but also a key responsibility of any
01:09:26
CEO is making sure there is strong
01:09:28
succession in place
01:09:30
>> and particularly in something like a
01:09:32
cooperative cuz they're harder to learn.
01:09:35
They are complex in their cultures and
01:09:36
in their connections and how they work
01:09:38
and how to be successful in one. It is
01:09:40
not the same as a corporate. It's a
01:09:42
different leadership style. Uh
01:09:44
>> and you know if someone arrives and
01:09:46
doesn't understand that they can bump up
01:09:48
pretty hard. So
01:09:50
>> I that's an important it's a thing I
01:09:52
think about as you think about
01:09:53
developing people. I've got a little bit
01:09:54
of change in my team right now and part
01:09:57
of the thinking is you know how do we
01:09:59
make sure we've got succession and
01:10:00
capability for the future.
01:10:01
>> When do you know when the the job's done
01:10:03
and you're not just like an old an old
01:10:05
guy overstaying his welcome?
01:10:07
>> Um
01:10:08
>> do you ever know for sure?
01:10:09
>> Oh, I think you do. Yeah, I really think
01:10:11
you do. And one thing I've always
01:10:13
promised myself is don't stay past that.
01:10:15
>> Um and that's not about you're not worn
01:10:18
out. you were just going I think I've
01:10:19
given everything I know how to give to
01:10:21
here.
01:10:22
uh you know if I look at you know the
01:10:24
first 5 years there was a lot of you
01:10:25
know really proud of the transformations
01:10:27
we did then you hit three years of co
01:10:30
and that was an incredible time for any
01:10:31
grocery organization right we were at
01:10:33
the you know pretty much at the center
01:10:35
of a lot of what was going on then we
01:10:37
hit market regulation and you know a
01:10:40
massive engagement around that then we
01:10:41
tried to get a merger done you know you
01:10:43
look at that those big phases you know
01:10:45
there's now still a job to do to make
01:10:47
the organization better and we can
01:10:50
>> so that's that's the play right now.
01:10:52
>> Yes. So, you you got this job. Um you
01:10:54
were appointed CEO of Food Stuffs
01:10:56
Northland after a global search.
01:10:58
>> So, did you apply or did you get asked
01:11:00
to apply?
01:11:01
>> Uh you get approached by a search agent,
01:11:04
you know, going, you know, hey, we're
01:11:05
looking for this. You're on our list. Do
01:11:07
you want to talk about it?
01:11:08
>> Must be incredibly flattering.
01:11:09
>> Uh yeah, it is. Yeah. And it's actually
01:11:12
it's one of the things when I'm trying
01:11:14
to coach and support people that you
01:11:16
know ask for that from me which is
01:11:17
always a privilege when you get asked
01:11:19
and I say I've been running about this
01:11:20
job and you go tell me about it and they
01:11:22
go well it's in catand do and it's doing
01:11:23
this and I go I know what happened here
01:11:26
which is you got a phone call from
01:11:27
someone saying they wanted you and
01:11:28
that's an amazing feeling but when did
01:11:30
you decide catmand do you know cuz
01:11:33
sometimes people go just being wanted is
01:11:36
attractive enough as opposed to being
01:11:37
clear on what it is you want.
01:11:39
>> It's flattering isn't it?
01:11:40
>> Yeah it is. It's good for the good for
01:11:41
the ego.
01:11:42
>> Everybody loves to be told they wanted.
01:11:44
Yeah.
01:11:45
>> So, did you have imposter syndrome? Are
01:11:47
you familiar with the term imposter
01:11:48
syndrome? Did you have that at the
01:11:49
beginning? Like you, it seems like most
01:11:51
of your adult life to that point had
01:11:52
been in the telco space. Y
01:11:54
>> um but is it just completely
01:11:56
transferable or completely different
01:11:57
things? You must have had a lot to
01:11:58
learn, eh? Yeah, I mean imposter
01:11:59
syndrome is a different thing and I
01:12:01
think you know I do feel that sometimes
01:12:03
you look around and go ah you know I'm
01:12:05
talking to these people or I'm doing
01:12:06
this thing and you know or some days you
01:12:09
go there's quite a big call to make here
01:12:11
have I really got what I need to make
01:12:13
that call
01:12:14
>> uh the transition from telco to to food
01:12:17
stuff so I remember at the time there
01:12:18
was you know I sort of made a number of
01:12:21
discussions or presentations with people
01:12:23
fascinated by that um and you stand back
01:12:26
from go look leadership is leadership So
01:12:28
that's the first one. Um driving
01:12:30
performance through people is not
01:12:33
different.
01:12:34
>> Uh you know um New Zealanders as
01:12:36
consumers. So I've been running the
01:12:38
retail consumer business for Spark for 3
01:12:40
years. So knowing what New Zealanders
01:12:43
are about, what was on their minds and
01:12:44
particularly in that phase, you know,
01:12:46
that 3year period around, you know, 20,
01:12:49
what are we talking about 12 to 14 or 15
01:12:51
and 15 to 18,
01:12:52
>> what was society thinking and doing? The
01:12:55
thing that was fundamentally different
01:12:56
is, you know, what's the value chain in
01:12:59
this business? Like how does it be
01:13:00
successful? What does it have to do well
01:13:02
to to succeed?
01:13:05
One of the things I love about it is
01:13:07
it's a physical business, you know, you
01:13:09
know, big buildings, 320 trucks. We
01:13:11
shift a lot of product like you can see
01:13:14
and touch what you do. You can walk into
01:13:15
a store and see physically what we
01:13:17
deliver.
01:13:18
>> Technology is quite different, right?
01:13:19
You have to believe the values at that
01:13:21
connection. Um, so it's it's been a lot
01:13:23
of fun and really enjoyed it. Co-ops are
01:13:26
different to corporates, you know, sort
01:13:28
of if you think the CEO role is you send
01:13:31
an email to all our store owners saying
01:13:32
we need to do this next and they get on
01:13:34
and do it, think again,
01:13:37
you know, and and
01:13:39
co-op. Someone said to me very early on
01:13:41
and they were right. It's the perfect
01:13:43
balance of agile decision-m so know when
01:13:45
you got to be a leader and decide with
01:13:47
deep consultation and slow decision-
01:13:49
making. And the trick is knowing which
01:13:51
issue sits in which bucket.
01:13:53
>> I think that's a lot about modern
01:13:54
leadership. I don't think many cultures
01:13:56
now are command and control. You have to
01:13:59
engage people in what you're doing and
01:14:02
you know convincing them it's the right
01:14:04
thing to do and they're getting their
01:14:05
purpose set on doing it. Then you get a
01:14:07
result.
01:14:08
>> How long were you in the job before you
01:14:10
felt comfortable like you were on top of
01:14:11
things?
01:14:12
>> Two years.
01:14:12
>> Two years. Wow.
01:14:13
>> Yeah.
01:14:14
>> And was there a was there a a Chris
01:14:15
Quinn there like someone that had gone
01:14:17
for the job twice that missed out or?
01:14:18
>> Yeah. Look, there was some, you know,
01:14:20
some strong talent that had applied
01:14:22
internally. Yeah. So that, you know,
01:14:23
part of
01:14:24
>> that's always interesting like, you
01:14:26
know, whenever you talk to someone who's
01:14:27
being promoted from within a team to
01:14:29
leader or someone who comes in,
01:14:31
>> the first thing you got to be really
01:14:32
careful about is you're not sorry you
01:14:34
got the job.
01:14:35
>> So don't don't apologize for that or you
01:14:38
know, you go I'm excited. I'm proud. I'm
01:14:41
determined. You know, this is a big
01:14:42
challenge. You got you know, you have to
01:14:44
be happy and confident you got the job.
01:14:47
Secondly, you then have to talk to them
01:14:48
and go, "Right, so now what's going to
01:14:50
light your fire next?" You know, cuz and
01:14:52
and it was helpful to have been in a
01:14:54
position where you'd gone for a CEO role
01:14:56
and not got it. So you could say, "Look,
01:14:58
I've lived this moment a bit. This was
01:15:00
my experience of it and this is what I
01:15:03
chose to do about it in the end."
01:15:05
>> And you know the I remember some of the
01:15:07
conversations it was clearly, you know,
01:15:09
so either reset and go as hard as you
01:15:12
can here or make a positive choice about
01:15:15
doing that somewhere. But don't don't
01:15:16
just don't be here being unhappy about
01:15:19
what happened.
01:15:21
>> Those conversations I feel like that
01:15:22
loops back to what you were saying
01:15:23
before about your dad about not crossing
01:15:26
the road.
01:15:27
>> Um because it'd be very easy just to
01:15:28
ignore those conversations like the
01:15:29
elephant in the room and let them sort
01:15:31
of fester.
01:15:32
>> Yeah.
01:15:33
>> No, if there was, you know, any people
01:15:36
situation where you've ended up having
01:15:37
to do quite a difficult or
01:15:39
confrontational or or very determinative
01:15:42
thing,
01:15:43
>> I've never walked away going, I did that
01:15:44
too soon. M
01:15:45
>> often you walk away going, I left that
01:15:47
too long.
01:15:48
>> Yeah.
01:15:48
>> So, you know, I keep thinking about how
01:15:50
do you have a straight up respectful
01:15:53
conversation? I can't remember who it
01:15:55
was, but someone recently in a session
01:15:57
we're doing, you know, the great tip was
01:16:00
start with I care enough about you to
01:16:01
tell you straight.
01:16:03
>> And I, you know, it's such a love.
01:16:05
>> Yeah.
01:16:05
>> Such an you know, powerful way to do
01:16:07
that.
01:16:08
>> Um
01:16:10
>> I feel like that's um not just for
01:16:11
business, but um for personal
01:16:13
interactions as well. Oh yeah,
01:16:14
>> I think that's probably a great way to
01:16:15
frame a conversation.
01:16:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. And hard when particularly
01:16:19
when they are hard subjects.
01:16:21
>> Yeah. I forget what the exact stat was,
01:16:23
but when I had um Sir Steve Hansen on
01:16:25
the podcast, he had he had a quote that
01:16:27
he'd say to the All Blacks and I think
01:16:28
he called them 80enters or 20enters. And
01:16:30
he was like, "Look, 80% of the
01:16:32
conversations we have are going to be
01:16:33
positive. 20% probably will be difficult
01:16:36
just, you know."
01:16:36
>> Yeah.
01:16:37
>> So, eight times out of 10, it's going to
01:16:38
be nice small talk, but the other two
01:16:40
times out of 10, it's not going to be
01:16:42
pretty.
01:16:42
>> Yeah. Yep. I remember a time in telecom
01:16:46
where we were measuring engagement. You
01:16:48
know the sort of you know one of those
01:16:50
scores that big organizations use to go
01:16:52
are our people happy and positive and
01:16:54
engaged and that and our engagement
01:16:56
scores were really strong and the share
01:16:58
price had gone down to a third of what
01:17:00
it was.
01:17:01
>> And you go how can that disconnect
01:17:02
happen? And it was fundamentally not
01:17:05
focused on the hard things which is we
01:17:08
have a cost problem, we have a
01:17:10
performance problem. We are not growing
01:17:11
fast enough. whatever it was and it was
01:17:13
a big lesson and you've got to connect
01:17:15
people's sense of purpose with
01:17:17
performance that matters to the
01:17:18
business. And then when you do, you get
01:17:21
absolute satisfaction and engagement and
01:17:23
energy and excitement. If you don't
01:17:25
connect those things,
01:17:26
>> it's just a party.
01:17:27
>> Yeah.
01:17:28
>> You know, and the parties don't last.
01:17:31
>> Yeah. You mentioned just before you
01:17:32
reckon it took around about two years to
01:17:34
um feel like you had your head around
01:17:36
the job you were doing.
01:17:37
>> Um
01:17:38
>> yeah. What were the biggest surprises in
01:17:40
those first couple of years? I think uh
01:17:43
one understanding the value chain you
01:17:45
know so the role that our partner
01:17:47
suppliers play in how the business
01:17:49
worked understanding you know the the
01:17:52
systems and technology understanding the
01:17:53
physicalness um but a lot about how to
01:17:56
make change happen you know how how do
01:18:00
you take a cooperative so you know quite
01:18:03
literally 2,000 of the people work for
01:18:05
you and you've got you know if there is
01:18:07
any hierarchical power you know you have
01:18:09
some of that and 22,000 people don't
01:18:12
work for you. They just work in the
01:18:13
banners and in the brands and you know
01:18:15
have a local owner who they work for.
01:18:17
>> So learning how to make change happen
01:18:20
successfully. And there's a a change
01:18:23
model called ADC car. It's five letters
01:18:24
that stand for stuff. But the first two
01:18:27
really matter. So one awareness. Does
01:18:28
everyone understand what we're trying to
01:18:30
change and why? And the second one is
01:18:32
desire. Does everyone think it's a good
01:18:33
thing to do?
01:18:34
>> So before you do any work, get those two
01:18:37
things right? If you don't, all the
01:18:39
work's going to be difficult because
01:18:41
people are going to push back and, you
01:18:43
know, step out and get in the way and do
01:18:45
those things. If everyone's aware why
01:18:46
and what it's going to deliver and
01:18:48
everyone actually goes, this is a good
01:18:50
thing, you can make change happen.
01:18:52
>> Wow. There's been so many good
01:18:53
leadership lessons in this uh in this
01:18:56
podcast already. It's fantastic.
01:18:58
>> Um, you the fact that you remember all
01:19:01
these things um it tells me that they
01:19:03
they do sort of like along in the back
01:19:05
of your mind with your decision-m
01:19:06
process. They do. They do. And
01:19:09
>> you
01:19:09
>> know the
01:19:11
the enemy, you know, the problem with
01:19:13
being busy and I, you know, challenged
01:19:14
myself on this full diaries, those sort
01:19:16
of things, is you don't get enough time
01:19:17
to stand back from the situation and go,
01:19:20
>> what is actually going on here? And how
01:19:21
do we not go through every step, but we
01:19:23
get to the
01:19:24
>> powerful moment where we make a
01:19:25
difference.
01:19:26
>> And any, you know, it's, you mentioned
01:19:28
imposter syndrome before. Sometimes you
01:19:30
feel like, you know, if I make this
01:19:32
decision, is it going to have negative
01:19:33
impact in places and stuff? Sometimes
01:19:35
the organization's going tell us your
01:19:36
decision,
01:19:38
>> you know, we cuz we'll do it, but you
01:19:40
need to tell us and you know, be, you
01:19:42
know, be resolute about it.
01:19:45
>> Commitment to the outcome is the most
01:19:46
powerful thing.
01:19:47
>> Yeah.
01:19:48
>> I often say to people, you know,
01:19:49
sometimes you've got quite hard choices.
01:19:51
You might go, you know, when should we
01:19:53
build a blue one, a yellow one, or a
01:19:54
green one? And and sometimes you get to
01:19:56
the point of analysis where you go,
01:19:58
look, I just can't use the spreadsheet
01:20:00
to make this call. It's not going to
01:20:02
give me the answer. We're going to build
01:20:04
the yellow one. Good news, we'll never
01:20:05
know if the blue or green one would have
01:20:06
worked. So, forget it. Let's make the
01:20:09
yellow one work really well.
01:20:10
>> Yeah, you just make a decision then make
01:20:12
it the right decision.
01:20:13
>> Yeah, this execution will determine
01:20:15
outcome. So, go
01:20:16
>> um I've got a card here which is called
01:20:19
uh co and crisis leadership.
01:20:22
>> Do we How is that for you to talk about?
01:20:23
Is it triggering to talk about or
01:20:25
>> It's not triggering to talk about, but I
01:20:27
tell you one thing I can't do is I can't
01:20:29
work from home.
01:20:30
>> It it you know PTSD sets in.
01:20:34
um you know it's that whole co and
01:20:37
working from home thing and you know
01:20:39
it's it's really interesting because
01:20:40
from a social and business point of view
01:20:42
it's become you know there's quite a
01:20:44
moment right you know in the last year
01:20:45
of so what's the right setting do we get
01:20:48
people to the office all of those things
01:20:50
it's fascinating in our world our
01:20:51
youngest team members come to the office
01:20:54
nearly 100%. Mhm.
01:20:56
>> Um why? Because working at home's
01:20:58
romantic unless you are working in your
01:20:59
bedroom on an iring board, you know. So
01:21:02
it's a a conversation led by people who
01:21:04
might have a study in their house, but
01:21:06
affects people who live in a multi-
01:21:09
person flat.
01:21:10
>> Yeah. It's like we were talking before
01:21:12
about this, you know, the social
01:21:13
interactions and the sort of culture uh
01:21:15
at the supermarkets. Like people like
01:21:17
being around other people other than
01:21:18
their family.
01:21:19
>> Yeah. and and younger people in
01:21:21
particular like I like community and I
01:21:23
like having a leader I can learn from
01:21:24
and I like being around you know and
01:21:26
>> you know we're we're really blessed to
01:21:29
have a bunch of people that you know
01:21:31
drive like a fitness club and a social
01:21:32
club and stuff like that. So there's
01:21:34
community outside of the work that just
01:21:37
you know means people love being there
01:21:39
which is really really cool. Well, look,
01:21:41
co um what an incredible moment, you
01:21:45
know, in every country in the world, but
01:21:47
um you know, New Zealand was probably at
01:21:49
a relatively extreme set of conditions
01:21:51
and practices and settings. Um I
01:21:54
remember it vividly 28th of February
01:21:56
about 6 p.m. I was at home um having a
01:21:59
beer on the deck with someone who lived
01:22:01
in the same suburb who actually owned
01:22:03
one of our stores. So, you know, we were
01:22:05
just having a Friday catchup. Um, and
01:22:07
both of our phones started going nuts
01:22:09
and was we heard on the news because I
01:22:11
think the trigger was the first New
01:22:12
Zealand case. It was a gentleman had
01:22:15
come back from I think the UAE and he'd
01:22:17
come back and been diagnosed. So, that
01:22:18
sort of was the moment where for New
01:22:20
Zealand it went from an interesting
01:22:21
global story to it's here.
01:22:24
>> Uh, and then within the hour, our phones
01:22:25
were going nuts because our stores in
01:22:27
certain communities were getting
01:22:29
attacked by groups of people going
01:22:31
Armageddon's coming. I need to buy 6
01:22:33
months supply of everything, you know,
01:22:36
>> flour and toilet paper.
01:22:37
>> Flour and toilet paper and and rice and
01:22:40
food and and I was being sent videos of
01:22:42
people climbing the racking and packing
01:22:44
saves to get the product off the storage
01:22:46
at the top. Like it was and my son was
01:22:48
working in China at the time. Um and so
01:22:51
I messaged him and said, "What the you
01:22:52
know, are you seeing or hearing
01:22:54
anything?" and he went on a lot of the
01:22:56
particularly Asian community um chat
01:23:00
apps and things and said, "Oh, no.
01:23:01
What's happening is people in China are
01:23:03
telling their families in New Zealand
01:23:05
that they're going to be locked up for
01:23:06
months and they need to get everything
01:23:07
they need." So, it's so that started it
01:23:10
and it was just a a blood rush from
01:23:12
there in terms of, you know, you build
01:23:16
the business to supply the demand you
01:23:18
have in front of you. You might build
01:23:19
10% capacity into it because that might
01:23:22
be what happens. we were getting 300%
01:23:24
increases. You know, you're like you
01:23:26
were just going,
01:23:26
>> how do you physically pump this through?
01:23:29
>> And then all of that time where the
01:23:31
rules were uncertain. Is it mass? Is it
01:23:32
not mass? Could people shop here? Could
01:23:34
not shop here? You know, can you do
01:23:36
e-commerce and delivery? You know, can
01:23:38
you have a service deli or do you have
01:23:40
to wrap every product up? So, you know,
01:23:42
all of these and they were coming at us
01:23:44
daily. Um, you know, there were just all
01:23:46
these moments. And I was thinking about
01:23:48
it this morning. uh a a cousin of mine,
01:23:51
Paul Little, um wrote a book about New
01:23:54
Zealand co.
01:23:54
>> Oh, no way. He's your cousin. Yeah. Joel
01:23:56
Little's dad.
01:23:57
>> Yes. Yeah. Um
01:23:58
>> Grammy awardw winning producer.
01:24:00
>> Yeah. My grandmother's maiden name is
01:24:01
Little. So there you go.
01:24:03
>> That's the connection. Um
01:24:04
>> he's a great writer, by the way.
01:24:05
>> Yeah. And he wrote a book called The Co
01:24:07
Chronicles. Um which was he interviewed
01:24:11
a dozen or 18 people every week for just
01:24:13
half an hour and told the story of that
01:24:14
period of time. And it's it's actually a
01:24:17
real pleasure to have the book because
01:24:19
sometimes you pull it out and go that's
01:24:20
right. That happened or this happened
01:24:21
because it's such a blur.
01:24:23
>> I you know so there was so many things.
01:24:25
It was organizing screens in stores. It
01:24:27
was what how do we keep our people safe
01:24:29
and that clarity thing we we ended up
01:24:31
saying there are two things that matter
01:24:33
right now. Number one keep people and
01:24:34
customers safe. Number two have stock on
01:24:37
shelf. That's our job. Nothing else is
01:24:39
our job. Um, as I mentioned before,
01:24:42
yeah, the supply chain just became a a
01:24:44
phrase that uh, everyone like with GM
01:24:46
knows G genome sequencing and um, you
01:24:49
know, there's all these casual contact,
01:24:51
all these phrases that came up in that
01:24:52
time. Was were we ever at risk of
01:24:55
running out of toilet paper?
01:24:57
>> Not ever once. Um, and you know, one of
01:25:01
the things that was incredible cuz the
01:25:02
the story in other communities there was
01:25:04
an issue cuz in some countries it's not
01:25:06
made. So it's made in other countries
01:25:07
and imported. We make toilet paper in
01:25:10
New Zealand. Please do not panic about,
01:25:12
you know, and does tell you a lot about
01:25:15
people's primal fears. You know, that
01:25:17
was more scary than running out of food.
01:25:20
So,
01:25:20
>> I suppose, yeah, and in terms of human
01:25:23
psychology, it's an interesting thing. I
01:25:24
suppose it's just people looking for
01:25:26
something they can control.
01:25:27
>> Yeah. I remember my my wife, I think,
01:25:31
saw it. So, I was on TV at one point,
01:25:32
you know, being interviewed. We were
01:25:34
trying, we tried to sort of get a a
01:25:36
theme going around # shopnormal, which
01:25:39
is if you come in and take what you need
01:25:41
for the week, we'll have it full again
01:25:42
when you come in a week. If you take
01:25:43
what you need for four weeks, we're
01:25:44
going to struggle to, you know, so
01:25:46
please shop normal.
01:25:48
>> Um, and I'm on camera on news or
01:25:50
something. And as I'm saying this, you
01:25:52
know, with the supermarket in the
01:25:53
background, a female customer walks past
01:25:55
with two 18 packs of toilet paper.
01:25:59
my my wife screenshotted that and said,
01:26:02
you know, it's not working. Um so, um I
01:26:06
went I went to my supermarket. I was
01:26:07
like, I suppose I should I suppose I
01:26:09
should stockpile cuz just cuz everyone
01:26:10
else was doing it and I went in there
01:26:12
and I literally didn't know what to buy.
01:26:13
I just bought a bunch of baked beans and
01:26:15
spaghetti that's still in the the pantry
01:26:17
now
01:26:17
>> and jin.
01:26:19
>> Yeah. Did um Yeah. Before um 2020, did
01:26:23
Food Stuffs have a pandemic plan?
01:26:25
>> No. No. We'd done we'd done crisis
01:26:28
exercise around earthquakes and floods
01:26:30
and fires,
01:26:31
>> you know, though you know they were your
01:26:32
natural go-tos. We had never practiced a
01:26:35
pandemic.
01:26:36
>> So that you know and the world hadn't
01:26:38
really so you know
01:26:39
>> it's unlike anything else.
01:26:40
>> You immediately go to all your contacts
01:26:41
and go what do you do? What do you
01:26:43
everyone's going don't know
01:26:44
>> you know and governments you know it was
01:26:47
it was you know we reflect now and go
01:26:50
would we have done everything the same?
01:26:51
Maybe not
01:26:52
>> but no one knew at the time what to do.
01:26:54
Um, and and so it made it incredibly
01:26:57
fast-paced, incredibly changeable. We
01:27:00
got into a rhythm where I would have a
01:27:02
call at 9:00 a.m. every morning with all
01:27:04
of our owners, all of our key leaders
01:27:07
inside the team. And, you know, there'd
01:27:09
be 900 to a,000 people on this call and
01:27:12
you would just go on and go, "Right,
01:27:13
today this is where we are in terms of
01:27:15
supply. This is where we are in terms of
01:27:17
guidance. These are the new rules that
01:27:18
have come in in the last 24 hours that
01:27:20
you need to execute." And we developed a
01:27:22
language cuz in a co-op, you know,
01:27:24
telling people how to run their store,
01:27:25
you know, that's what they are there to
01:27:27
do.
01:27:27
>> So, we just said, look, we're going to
01:27:28
really help you by going this is
01:27:30
mandated. So, today this is the law
01:27:32
could change tomorrow, but we're just
01:27:33
trying to help you by being clear. This
01:27:36
is recommended, which is we think the
01:27:37
best way to go about this is this, but
01:27:39
if you know better in your community,
01:27:40
you go, you know, you do it.
01:27:42
>> Yeah.
01:27:42
>> And it just sped us up so much. Those
01:27:45
calls were amazing. We had, you know,
01:27:48
hard moments, disagreements, people in a
01:27:51
bit of stress and trouble. We also had
01:27:52
the funniest moments in the world. There
01:27:53
was one guy who would ask questions that
01:27:56
you'd already covered five or six times
01:27:58
and, you know, be, you know, there's
01:27:59
always one in every crowd that sort of
01:28:01
isn't connected, then comes in late and
01:28:03
sort of said something, had the classic
01:28:05
moment where someone else was not off
01:28:06
mute and went for [ __ ] sake really
01:28:09
loudly. And you've never you've never
01:28:12
had a thousand people laughing on an
01:28:14
audio call, you know, just it was the
01:28:16
stress reliever that everyone needed.
01:28:18
>> Oh, that's brilliant. Were you getting
01:28:19
um your your job at the time was
01:28:21
arguably one of the most um important or
01:28:24
high pressure or crucial in New Zealand?
01:28:25
Were you were you getting regular phone
01:28:27
calls from um Dame Justindra Adurn or
01:28:29
Chris Atkins who was the co minister or
01:28:32
>> uh never met or spoken to Justinder Adun
01:28:35
>> really?
01:28:35
>> Yep.
01:28:40
that surpris
01:28:41
but Chris Farfoy who was her um you know
01:28:45
sort of commerce engagement so the key
01:28:47
business engagement fantastic regular
01:28:49
conversations listening engaged uh spoke
01:28:52
a lot you know we and we were able to go
01:28:54
look what we need is this what we need
01:28:56
is that you know
01:28:58
>> the issues that people probably never
01:28:59
understood so when we had regional
01:29:00
lockdowns we were having trucks stopped
01:29:02
at borders saying you can't go through
01:29:03
and you're going guys it's a big yellow
01:29:06
truck with pack and save on it it's full
01:29:07
of food it needs to go through. You
01:29:10
know, stories you shouldn't tell. Like,
01:29:11
you know, at South Oakland, you know,
01:29:13
your communities like Pukcoey Drury
01:29:15
staff would live on one side of a border
01:29:17
and work on the other side in a store.
01:29:19
So, we had butchers hidden in boots
01:29:21
coming through regional blockades and,
01:29:24
you know, you just found ways to do what
01:29:26
you needed to do to make sure the store
01:29:28
could open full, fresh, and friendly and
01:29:30
help a community feel normal. Um so
01:29:33
there was there was some and then you
01:29:35
know the more important it's the
01:29:37
government departments the people that
01:29:38
are doing the operating and you know the
01:29:40
police the the ones like that that's
01:29:42
where our connections were a lot. The
01:29:45
one thing I don't think anyone maybe
01:29:47
remembers but this that whole rule set
01:29:49
that said only supermarkets could be
01:29:51
open and green grocerers and and
01:29:53
butchers and that we constantly said
01:29:55
that is not necessary. They could be
01:29:57
open. We never argued for only us to be
01:29:59
open. never wanted that to be the case
01:30:01
cuz it just created angst and pressure
01:30:04
and an unnecessary thing when they could
01:30:06
have perfectly safely traded.
01:30:08
>> So that would be you know we had a few
01:30:11
conversations with the health leaders um
01:30:13
just going look we don't think you've
01:30:15
got the setting right you know you could
01:30:16
open these um so that was you know it
01:30:19
was interesting cuz no we didn't have
01:30:21
with the leadership level. It's a wild
01:30:23
time. I I still can't get over the um
01:30:26
you not hearing from Justindra Adon. Was
01:30:29
that a head scratcher for you at the
01:30:30
time or now?
01:30:31
>> Yes. Yeah, it is then and now. Yeah. And
01:30:34
look, you know, I guess everyone chooses
01:30:36
where they engage and how. Um would it
01:30:39
have been valuable? I think so. Yeah, I
01:30:41
think so. Another podcast guest I've had
01:30:45
on Martin Snedden who was in charge of
01:30:46
the 2011 Rugby World Cup and he just he
01:30:49
talked about how hands-on John Key, but
01:30:51
in particular Murray Mccaui was at the
01:30:53
time and how if he saw Murray's name
01:30:55
come up on his phone like had have like
01:30:57
a a mild panic attack. Um there was and
01:31:00
there was a sports tournament this is a
01:31:02
pandemic
01:31:03
>> and look and I was
01:31:06
lead on the telecom project that engaged
01:31:08
to deliver the technology for that rugby
01:31:09
world cup. So little bit of time with
01:31:11
Martin but a lot with Dame now who is
01:31:13
Dame TZ while she was you know a
01:31:15
powerhouse behind that whole event.
01:31:17
>> Yeah you're currently chairman of New
01:31:18
Zealand.
01:31:18
>> Yes.
01:31:19
>> Yep. Um and you know so that was an
01:31:22
incredible time you know how do you make
01:31:23
sure that every global media
01:31:25
organization has got everything they
01:31:27
need at every stadium and it works. M
01:31:29
>> that was you know um but yeah look the
01:31:33
engagement now you know so our police
01:31:36
minister our you know um education work
01:31:40
safety all of those things we're getting
01:31:43
you know we're getting good consultation
01:31:44
engagement we're getting heard not
01:31:46
always agreed with and that's fine
01:31:48
>> um but you know I do think in a country
01:31:50
like New Zealand engagement between
01:31:52
government and business can be
01:31:54
incredibly powerful you know I I postco
01:31:57
co I still catch up with that at
01:32:00
Stanford class so you know from 2014 so
01:32:02
it's 11 12 years on now and for a while
01:32:06
we were doing circling where someone
01:32:07
would come on to a call and everyone
01:32:09
would dial in from all over the world
01:32:10
and say look here's our co learning so
01:32:12
they invited me to do a New Zealand one
01:32:14
and I sort of said look here's my
01:32:16
summary and observation number one it's
01:32:18
really helpful to be an island Ireland
01:32:19
when you've got a pandemic because you
01:32:21
can have a rule set that says we can
01:32:23
close some stuff down and protect
01:32:25
ourselves
01:32:25
>> natural mode
01:32:26
>> uh number to um you know communications
01:32:29
are really really important and we had
01:32:32
very very strong communicators you know
01:32:34
including Dangerous Cinder um so you
01:32:37
were never unclear about what they were
01:32:39
trying to do you could argue about
01:32:40
content argue about decisions but you
01:32:42
did have strong communication they were
01:32:43
out front and doing it and that was
01:32:45
valuable and the third thing was I think
01:32:47
culturally New Zealanders more than any
01:32:49
country in the world formed one team in
01:32:51
a crisis
01:32:52
>> like not everyone agreed but everyone
01:32:55
got on and got it done you think about
01:32:57
one day the Oakland motorways are doing
01:32:59
what they do and it's hard to get
01:33:00
anywhere the next day it's empty empty
01:33:03
>> that would not happen in an America or a
01:33:05
UK or a you know so we you know those
01:33:08
three things differentiated our
01:33:09
experience
01:33:11
>> I don't know if it would happen here
01:33:12
again now
01:33:13
>> no I don't think it would
01:33:14
>> I don't know if you'd get the buy in
01:33:15
again
01:33:15
>> no I don't think it would
01:33:17
>> from from your position during that time
01:33:19
how can you assure um your staff that
01:33:22
you're talking to on the daily Zooms or
01:33:23
teams meetings or you know the the staff
01:33:25
beneath them 24,000 people, how can you
01:33:28
assure them everything's going to be
01:33:29
okay when you don't know yourself?
01:33:31
>> Yeah. And and firstly, be careful about
01:33:34
saying everything is going to be okay
01:33:36
cuz cuz you know, if you're going to if
01:33:38
you're committed to being authentic,
01:33:40
then don't say things that you know what
01:33:43
you can do is say we really, you know,
01:33:45
we really care about your safety. Here
01:33:47
is everything we are doing to keep you
01:33:49
safe. Is there anything on your minds?
01:33:51
um you can say these are the decisions
01:33:53
we're making to you know like for our
01:33:55
supply chain you know this is our
01:33:57
essential workers and and you know so
01:33:59
many of them I spoke to who were you
01:34:01
know a lot of them come from quite large
01:34:03
households so multiple generations
01:34:05
family living in a single household so
01:34:07
older people whose health may not be
01:34:08
brilliant and then you've got you know a
01:34:11
middle age and a young age and we we
01:34:12
have the privilege of a lot of families
01:34:13
working in our business you know there's
01:34:15
fathers and sons and daughters and
01:34:16
cousins and and you know they're all
01:34:18
going back to the same house and they
01:34:20
had this real sense of if I'm going to
01:34:21
work with other people, am I taking
01:34:24
something home that is going to harm my
01:34:26
grandparents or my parents?
01:34:28
>> You imagine the feeling of that. You
01:34:29
know, I was talking to people who were,
01:34:31
you know, coming to work, then going
01:34:33
home, stripping off their gear and
01:34:35
hosing themselves down on the back
01:34:36
doorstep and then maybe sleeping in the
01:34:38
caravan or, you know, like you're going,
01:34:40
you know, whilst we are sitting in
01:34:42
offices issuing orders, people are
01:34:43
living that stuff. Um, so being
01:34:47
connected to those audiences, looking
01:34:48
after them, making sure, you know,
01:34:50
little things like we form priority cues
01:34:52
for our teams to get into stores to get
01:34:53
the food they need in for their families
01:34:56
because they are working a 12-hour shift
01:34:57
and then lining up for 2 hours to go to
01:34:59
the supermarket. You go, come on, you
01:35:00
know,
01:35:01
>> we need them back. So, um, and we need
01:35:03
them to have a rest and we need them to
01:35:05
look after themselves. So, those, you
01:35:07
know, assuring people it's all going to
01:35:10
be okay. What you could assure them was
01:35:11
this is what we're doing for you. this
01:35:12
is how we're going to try and keep you
01:35:14
safe. We hear you on some of the
01:35:16
problems. Let's, you know, see if we can
01:35:18
deal with those.
01:35:20
>> Um, and just communicating and treating
01:35:23
every question, you know, respectfully,
01:35:26
even though some of them might be the
01:35:27
fifth time you've been asked, you know.
01:35:30
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're saying
01:35:31
there's no such thing as a bad question,
01:35:32
but there are some there are some dumb
01:35:34
questions.
01:35:34
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um what's in your opinion
01:35:37
what's changed for better and worse um
01:35:39
after co in terms of um yeah the grocery
01:35:42
trade
01:35:42
>> look you know essential worker number
01:35:45
one a respect for those people
01:35:48
>> absolutely
01:35:48
>> um number two I think our supply chains
01:35:51
you know look I look at what they
01:35:53
executed and managed to do and how they
01:35:55
thought about how being efficient as
01:35:56
possible how we thought about you know
01:35:59
like when you're under pressure you know
01:36:01
the way for example you work today is
01:36:03
you might pick 40 different boxes of
01:36:05
cereal into co we said you know what
01:36:07
we've got time to send a pallet of epics
01:36:09
and that's it and we're going to just
01:36:10
make that work. We we learned that you
01:36:13
don't need 30 different toilet papers
01:36:16
like that was you know when you think
01:36:18
about production and supply chain what
01:36:19
slows down production is stopping and
01:36:21
then putting the same toilet paper into
01:36:23
a different wrapper with a different
01:36:24
brand on it you know or or making this
01:36:26
one slightly scented yellow and this one
01:36:28
slightly scented orange. You go you know
01:36:30
what
01:36:31
>> dolphin and Boston.
01:36:31
>> Yeah. Dolphin. Exactly. um or you just
01:36:34
go you know what what people need is
01:36:36
stock on shelf so let's going to make
01:36:37
the one in the middle we're going to
01:36:39
make as many as we can we're not going
01:36:40
to offer so many choices
01:36:42
>> so many of those sort of products now
01:36:44
you see a tighter story but it's always
01:36:47
in stock it's you know better value it's
01:36:49
those things
01:36:50
>> uh one of the biggest trend changes is
01:36:52
chilled and frozen food because what
01:36:54
happened was everyone was told shop once
01:36:55
a week send one person you can't you
01:36:58
know fresh food may not last that long
01:37:00
so people started buying fresh and
01:37:02
frozen food which led a lot of our
01:37:04
amazing suppliers to go how do we
01:37:06
innovate great product that is great
01:37:08
tasting nutritious good but is delivered
01:37:11
in those formats because it can be the
01:37:12
technologies come a long way um so you
01:37:15
know the air fryer rose
01:37:18
you know people going I can't go to the
01:37:20
pub and have my chips and you know
01:37:21
nuggets what can I do so all these
01:37:24
product changes that have happened as a
01:37:25
result um and we learned that
01:37:29
you know like the serve deli was a big
01:37:31
thing you know where you'd I would say
01:37:33
like 15 pieces of ham or 20 pieces of
01:37:35
lunchon. Now so many people are going
01:37:37
it's bagged. It's ready to go. I know it
01:37:38
was packed this morning. I can see the
01:37:40
price which actually
01:37:41
>> is a really good thing when people are
01:37:43
managing a budget tightly. I don't
01:37:45
there's no worse experience than saying
01:37:46
could you put five pieces back like what
01:37:49
a demeaning you know so you just go you
01:37:50
don't need to just have all the bags
01:37:52
ready and go you choose the one that you
01:37:53
can do. Um
01:37:54
>> so a lot of little things came out of
01:37:56
it. Um but and we built supply chain
01:38:00
capacity you know so here in Oakland we
01:38:03
have an 80,000 square meter ambient
01:38:05
distribution center which is a warehouse
01:38:07
>> that we could not have got through co
01:38:09
without that we started co without it
01:38:12
and we could not have got through
01:38:13
without it
01:38:15
>> um you know so we learned heaps of
01:38:16
things
01:38:19
>> um we touched um earlier on the retail
01:38:22
crime aspect do do you has that got
01:38:24
worse since co do you think it's like a
01:38:25
co hangover in a Yes, it is. Yeah, 100%.
01:38:28
So,
01:38:29
>> it's it's
01:38:32
society got anxious and restless. You
01:38:34
know, it it got incomprehensible. You
01:38:36
know, there's a great expression that,
01:38:39
you know, in general societies in
01:38:40
Albania, so they're brittle, they're
01:38:42
anxious, it's nonlinear. Um, and it's
01:38:45
it's more sort of interrupted than it's
01:38:48
ever been. And so, CO started that
01:38:50
really. You know, you think it was a
01:38:51
massive interruption. You know, people
01:38:53
feared for their jobs and their
01:38:55
security. They feared for their medical
01:38:57
their lives. Um they were forced to work
01:39:00
at home which was unnatural. They got
01:39:02
disconnected. So many tragic things
01:39:05
happened around you know people not
01:39:07
being able to be at the right place in
01:39:08
terms of family events and all of those
01:39:10
things.
01:39:11
>> So the impact you know and then
01:39:12
education we have a you know threeear
01:39:14
set of kids that had a very bumpy
01:39:16
education experience and that's still
01:39:18
showing up.
01:39:19
>> Um so yes lots of things happened. Um
01:39:23
you know what drives retail crime? Um
01:39:26
the the most common cause is for profit
01:39:30
is not um the second most is gangs or
01:39:33
organized crime. So they're organizing
01:39:35
product through a chain and then the
01:39:37
third is addiction. Um cost of living or
01:39:41
poverty is not a major cause of retail
01:39:43
crime. So you know and I think a lot of
01:39:46
people would think differently and
01:39:47
that's because very often our stores you
01:39:49
know they know their community. they
01:39:51
know the people that might try and steal
01:39:53
food to feed a family and very often
01:39:56
they are saying look don't do that talk
01:39:57
to me what do we need to do um and we've
01:40:00
done a lot of things or you know the
01:40:02
problem is not solved at all I'm not
01:40:03
pretending for a second food poverty is
01:40:05
solved but you know we have a social
01:40:07
supermarket story we're really proud of
01:40:08
we're doing a whole lot of things but
01:40:10
retail crime it's a crime and you know
01:40:13
people are not helping themselves by
01:40:14
doing it
01:40:16
>> and there's a a big difference between
01:40:18
someone stealing mints to feed their
01:40:19
family and someone stealing a five pack
01:40:20
of Gillette razors, isn't it?
01:40:22
>> That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
01:40:23
Or stealing 50 kilos of fillet steak,
01:40:25
you know, and going that is not for
01:40:27
feeding a family. That is
01:40:29
>> Has that happened?
01:40:29
>> Oh, yes.
01:40:30
>> How do you how do you steal 50 kilos?
01:40:31
>> You'd be amazed where you you would be
01:40:34
amazed and horrified at where it's put.
01:40:36
Um
01:40:37
and and then you get the conversation
01:40:39
of, well, I'll give it back. And you go,
01:40:40
no thank you. You're right.
01:40:42
>> Yeah.
01:40:43
>> Although, if someone tries to put a um a
01:40:45
rotisserie uh chicken down their pants
01:40:47
and walk out with it, I reckon let them
01:40:48
have it. Um it's brave particularly if
01:40:50
it's just come out of the rotisserie. Uh
01:40:53
>> but you know that is you know it's it
01:40:56
it's retail crime has always been
01:40:58
present right we shouldn't pretend it's
01:40:59
a brand new thing it's not a brand new
01:41:01
thing
01:41:02
>> u it is higher than it was before co
01:41:04
there is no doubt
01:41:05
>> and it is unfortunately a little more
01:41:07
aggressive and and more violent and
01:41:09
that's what I really worry about for our
01:41:10
teams. Um, you know, there's there's you
01:41:13
look at things like there's a big
01:41:15
conversation in society about liquor
01:41:17
and, you know, sales hours. So, a number
01:41:19
of councils are now saying, well, you
01:41:21
know, this the supermarket's open till
01:41:22
10, but we think you should stop selling
01:41:24
alcohol at 9:00 because that restricts
01:41:27
availability and will make a difference
01:41:28
to alcohol harm.
01:41:30
>> I haven't yet seen the data that says
01:41:32
that we'll do that. But, you know, the
01:41:34
rules are made and we live to the rules.
01:41:36
What I do worry about is someone comes
01:41:38
in at 10 to 9. Um, they're getting, you
01:41:40
know, maybe they're going fishing
01:41:41
tomorrow with friends and they want a
01:41:42
dozen beers. They finish shopping at 5 9
01:41:45
approach the checkout and you've got a
01:41:47
16-year-old school
01:41:49
>> kid who's on checkout and then a big
01:41:51
argument breaks out, why can't I buy the
01:41:52
beers?
01:41:54
>> That's the not fair bit, you know,
01:41:56
because it's nothing to do with the
01:41:57
checkout operator. Um, so those are, you
01:42:00
know, some of the things that you sort
01:42:01
of go, can we think end to end about
01:42:02
some of these things and what we're
01:42:03
trying to achieve, which is less alcohol
01:42:06
harm in society. That's we're all on
01:42:08
board with that.
01:42:09
>> Surely there's an easy fact like it just
01:42:11
off the top of my head, you know, cover
01:42:12
the alcohol up or rope it off at 9:00
01:42:14
and if you've got it before 9:00,
01:42:16
>> if you started at 10 to 9
01:42:18
>> but finished after. So there's
01:42:20
>> it's the actually sitting down and
01:42:22
connecting and going what's actually
01:42:23
happening in a shoers's life, you know,
01:42:26
>> cuz they're not thinking about planning
01:42:27
to be done by 9.
01:42:28
>> Mhm.
01:42:28
>> They're just living their lives and
01:42:30
doing their thing.
01:42:32
>> I know you can't speak on behalf of
01:42:34
everyone, but um yeah, how's the mental
01:42:37
health of your of your staff? You must
01:42:38
get some feedback like they they're
01:42:40
dealing with a lot.
01:42:41
>> Yeah, they are. And look, you know, it's
01:42:43
um it's I don't think it's more present
01:42:46
in our organization than it is across
01:42:48
New Zealand society, but I think it is
01:42:49
more of an issue for every organization.
01:42:52
And, you know, we're 100% committed to
01:42:54
the safety and wellbeing of our teams.
01:42:56
Um we, you know, we talk about a, you
01:42:59
know, zero harm environment. We measure
01:43:01
in a number of different ways. Our harm
01:43:04
is down 25% yearon-year and it is
01:43:07
industry leading right now. We're very
01:43:08
proud of it. And you've got to pay
01:43:11
attention, you know. So, my worst
01:43:13
physical incident happened late last
01:43:16
year when one of our Gilmore's truck
01:43:18
drivers got out of their truck, went
01:43:20
round the back, lowered the tailgate,
01:43:21
and at the same time a distracted driver
01:43:24
came across three lanes and slammed into
01:43:25
the back of the truck and hit him. Um,
01:43:27
he was in hospital for 10 weeks. Name is
01:43:29
Ben. Uh, lost one leg. Uh, life-changing
01:43:32
event. Uh, also the most inspiring
01:43:34
35-year-old I've ever met. cuz when I
01:43:37
caught up with him in the hospital, he
01:43:38
said, "Well, the thing I'm trying to
01:43:39
work out is do I do a marathon or a
01:43:42
swimming event?"
01:43:43
>> And you go, "Mate, whatever."
01:43:45
>> Um, but mental health, um, look, there's
01:43:49
a lot of leadership challenge. There's a
01:43:51
lot of pressure. A lot of our families
01:43:53
running stores and communities who not
01:43:54
only get it from customers, they get it
01:43:57
from the community. They're perceived as
01:43:58
the supermarket owner, which means, you
01:44:00
know, you must be filthy rich rather
01:44:02
than you must have millions of dollars
01:44:03
of debt. Mhm.
01:44:04
>> Um and you know the most powerful thing
01:44:07
I've ever heard on the subject and it
01:44:08
came from John Kerwin. Um you know I was
01:44:11
at a event in Fiji that he spoke at and
01:44:13
it was a very funny one cuz it was five
01:44:15
experts then he spoke last and the
01:44:17
experts were very technical and very
01:44:20
detailed and sort of you know it's
01:44:21
Friday night in Fiji and we were having
01:44:23
a Fiji gold and you know going this is
01:44:25
come on guys you know. Um and and JK
01:44:30
just said I have no effing idea what
01:44:32
these people just said. Um, but all I
01:44:35
would say is remember it's an illness,
01:44:36
not a weakness.
01:44:38
>> And it's a line that's been incredibly
01:44:41
valuable to me in half a dozen
01:44:42
conversations with people where you go.
01:44:44
So, first thing you got to stop thinking
01:44:46
is you're weak. You're not,
01:44:47
>> you know, you if you had a cold or you,
01:44:50
you know, had whatever you would go to a
01:44:52
doctor and get it sorted. This is no
01:44:54
different. It's an illness. Get the
01:44:56
help.
01:44:56
>> You know, and the other thing I always
01:44:58
think about is when you walk past
01:44:59
someone and say, "How you going?" You
01:45:01
know, it's a very Kiwi thing to go fine.
01:45:02
>> Yeah. Yeah, keep walking.
01:45:04
>> Yeah. And you know, just having that
01:45:06
sense to go, that didn't feel fine. I'm
01:45:08
going to go back and ask another
01:45:09
question.
01:45:10
>> So, just little stuff.
01:45:11
>> Yeah.
01:45:12
>> What about you personally? How's your
01:45:13
mental health been?
01:45:14
>> Uh, it's good. It's good. Yeah. And it's
01:45:18
>> uh you That's not a no effort thing. You
01:45:20
have to look after yourself. You have to
01:45:23
be real with yourself. You have to, you
01:45:26
know, I'm a a little bit of what I try
01:45:28
to do, and I'm not perfect at it by any
01:45:30
means, but do what you're doing 100%.
01:45:32
you know, so if you're at work, be
01:45:34
there. And don't be feeling guilty about
01:45:35
not being somewhere else. If you're, you
01:45:39
know, driving cars with mates, do that.
01:45:41
Um, and if you're at home or with
01:45:43
people, try and do that 100%.
01:45:45
>> Because I think today one of the big
01:45:47
challenges is everything being done 50%.
01:45:50
Which means nothing feels
01:45:51
>> Yeah.
01:45:52
>> settled, everything feels a bit
01:45:53
restless.
01:45:54
>> Um, so I think it's really important. um
01:45:57
try and celebrate what you should um
01:45:59
because you know and particularly when
01:46:02
you get to leadership roles you sort of
01:46:03
look around going why has no one told me
01:46:05
I'm good it's because they think that's
01:46:07
your job you know
01:46:09
you know that actually you are the one
01:46:11
who's telling people and you know that
01:46:13
you know so you do you have to learn you
01:46:17
get stronger at self-evaluating
01:46:19
>> and going am I actually proud of that
01:46:20
and if I am tell yourself
01:46:22
>> uh if you go that's not as good as I
01:46:24
could be then sort it
01:46:26
Um, and also, you know, some I've I've
01:46:29
learned, you know, a lot of the, you
01:46:31
know, I get a lot of customer emails. I
01:46:33
get a lot of society emails, you know,
01:46:34
the name's not hard to work out where
01:46:36
the email address is, you know, you can
01:46:38
end up taking quite a bit of it
01:46:39
personally. Um, and one other thing my
01:46:43
dad said, you know, he said, if you pass
01:46:44
a drunk in the street and they say
01:46:47
you're ugly, are you ugly or are they
01:46:49
just drunk?
01:46:51
You know, so sometimes you go, look, you
01:46:53
know, and I have sent a few replies back
01:46:56
to people, you know, they'll say, you
01:46:57
know, you guys are this or you're that,
01:46:58
and they, you know, they'll call you all
01:47:00
sorts of names and you just go back and
01:47:01
say, look, we're not going to agree.
01:47:03
This is our perspective on that issue.
01:47:05
And just one thing I want to ask you is,
01:47:07
are you okay?
01:47:09
>> It's funny when when I had Miles Harold
01:47:11
from Fontier on the podcast, he said the
01:47:13
same thing. He'll get he'll get to work
01:47:14
in the morning. And there'll be some
01:47:15
emails they sent at like 9 10:00 at
01:47:17
night
01:47:18
>> um from angry farmers clearly after a
01:47:19
couple of whisies and
01:47:21
>> you just got to be the bigger person. Um
01:47:23
yeah, you said something before about
01:47:24
yeah people not telling you you're doing
01:47:25
a good job because that's your job. But
01:47:27
um
01:47:29
>> yeah, it must be an interesting position
01:47:30
for you to be in like you if you walk
01:47:32
walk through a store and you you walk
01:47:34
someone to walk past the staff member
01:47:36
without talking to them like that could
01:47:37
play on their mind like oh Chris Chris
01:47:39
hasn't he's seen me three times this
01:47:41
week and he hasn't spoken to me.
01:47:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's that I call it the 100
01:47:44
one. You're one. There's a 100 looking
01:47:46
at you and every action is read as
01:47:48
something. So, you've got to be aware of
01:47:50
it. Um, you've also got to be sometimes,
01:47:53
you know what, I'm just my mind's
01:47:55
somewhere else or I'm busy on something
01:47:56
and that's okay.
01:47:58
>> But also then take the breather and take
01:47:59
the time to walk the floor, go to the
01:48:01
store, do the thing. Um, I'm I think for
01:48:06
leaders and you know this is not a me
01:48:08
thing. I've seen many leaders do this
01:48:09
but one of the things is how do you
01:48:11
personalize in such a large organization
01:48:13
you know how do you connect and you the
01:48:16
answer is you build systems and
01:48:17
processes so
01:48:19
>> you know on a Monday I send an email to
01:48:22
one pack and say one in one four square
01:48:23
saying you had a great week
01:48:25
>> and you know for these reasons did I
01:48:27
personally know that or see that no but
01:48:29
I've got a system that feeds it to me
01:48:31
and it's just one of my jobs on a Monday
01:48:33
>> it's the only email I get a reply to
01:48:34
same day cuz you know they reply and say
01:48:36
of course you know thank god you finally
01:48:38
noticed.
01:48:40
Um, and then just a system also little
01:48:42
things like uh I have the world's worst
01:48:44
handwriting. There is a game in the
01:48:46
organization called guess what the hell
01:48:47
he wrote, you know,
01:48:49
>> you like a doctor.
01:48:49
>> Yeah. Terrible. And they show it to
01:48:51
other people to go, do you any idea what
01:48:52
he said here? Um, but there is still a
01:48:56
place for a handwritten card,
01:48:57
>> you know, and it's, hey, I heard you got
01:49:00
married. I heard you've had a baby. I
01:49:01
heard you bought your first house. I
01:49:03
don't know those things from
01:49:05
conversations. I know it from leaders
01:49:06
feeding me it. and you know having you
01:49:09
know I call it conducting the orchestra.
01:49:11
So when you run a team you use all of
01:49:12
the instruments around you. I'm just one
01:49:14
of the instruments that can be used to
01:49:16
make someone feel really good.
01:49:17
>> Mhm.
01:49:19
>> Who do you go to for brutally honest
01:49:21
feedback?
01:49:22
>> I have you know I have friends and
01:49:25
mentors and people you go to and you
01:49:27
know and uh you get it at home. Um you
01:49:30
know and uh that's really important
01:49:32
because it comes back to that I care
01:49:34
enough to tell you straight
01:49:35
>> you know. So, it's important to have
01:49:37
people that will do that for you
01:49:39
>> and it's important for you to continue
01:49:40
to listen to it and not get too big for
01:49:42
your boots.
01:49:43
>> And the other thing is in that big too
01:49:44
big for your boots thing is, you know,
01:49:46
so I am privileged to have, you know,
01:49:49
like my the gym crowd in the morning
01:49:50
who, you know, mostly don't know what I
01:49:53
do and I love that they don't. Um,
01:49:55
>> in fact, you know, there's a guy who,
01:49:58
you know, we encourage to do some gym
01:49:59
work who runs one of our DCs and it's
01:50:01
been really good for him. He is world
01:50:03
famous in South Oakland. He's a rugby
01:50:05
coach at Derell and all this sort of
01:50:06
stuff. He started coming to the gym. I'd
01:50:08
been going for 6 months. No one knew me.
01:50:10
No one said hello. He walks in. It's
01:50:11
like God's entered. I'm looking going
01:50:15
that guy.
01:50:16
>> Yeah. Those um those exercises, those
01:50:18
classes, I was a member of BFT for a
01:50:19
while. They're um they're great. It's a
01:50:21
great leveler as well.
01:50:22
>> Yes, it is. Yeah. And it's just, you
01:50:23
know, a community thing. But the other
01:50:25
thing, you know, I have a group of mates
01:50:27
I do car stuff with and I have a group
01:50:29
occasionally, you know, they meet at a
01:50:32
bar in Stonefields on a Friday night. I
01:50:34
get there about every 8 weeks, but it is
01:50:36
such a grounding thing cuz they don't
01:50:37
care who I am.
01:50:38
>> You know, they're not there's no sucking
01:50:40
up going on there. It's just a bunch of
01:50:41
guys have known each other for a long
01:50:43
time.
01:50:43
>> So those things are really important
01:50:45
because they keep you grounded.
01:50:47
>> Yeah. Is that sucking up aspect hard for
01:50:49
for people in the organization that that
01:50:51
are below you? You like you you you
01:50:53
wouldn't know if you could take, you
01:50:54
know, trust someone that they're just
01:50:56
being nice and genuine or
01:50:57
>> Yeah. The feedback I get from some
01:50:59
people is that I don't notice it enough
01:51:00
when it's happening because it and I
01:51:02
probably to be honest it doesn't work.
01:51:05
You know I I you read a overly salesy
01:51:08
person pretty quickly and you go look I
01:51:10
you know
01:51:11
>> I'd rather you just you know remove the
01:51:13
adjectives just tell me straight what
01:51:15
you've got done you know trust me to
01:51:16
interpret whether that was a really good
01:51:18
thing.
01:51:20
>> Um you you mentioned this before when
01:51:22
you were talking about your your six
01:51:23
week stint at Stanford. You did the uh
01:51:25
San Francisco marathon, did you say?
01:51:27
Yeah. And you've done a few. You've
01:51:28
you've done the uh you've done the New
01:51:30
York Marathon for cat the cat trust.
01:51:31
>> Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Which is
01:51:34
>> funny. I saw him last night at a
01:51:35
different dinner, Tony Carter, who was
01:51:37
CEO at Food Stuffs North Island one
01:51:40
before two before me.
01:51:42
>> So there was him, then Mar Jordan, then
01:51:43
me. Um, and it was his farewell from
01:51:45
Food Stuffs which um, and and Katrina
01:51:49
from Catwalk was there and she came off
01:51:51
stage in the in the chair, you know, and
01:51:52
so that's already a you know, I'm under
01:51:54
threat cuz how can you say no to that?
01:51:56
Um, and she said, I want you to do New
01:51:58
York Marathon. And I said, you have to
01:51:59
be joking. Like, you know, you know,
01:52:01
good joke. She said, "No, I want you to
01:52:02
do it." And you sort of on that night I
01:52:04
said, "Yes." And then next morning, you
01:52:06
go, "Oh my god, what have I done?
01:52:07
>> What have I signed up for?" Uh, and I
01:52:09
think it was less than 12 months from
01:52:12
someone who has never run for a sport
01:52:15
thing to doing that. Um, and you learned
01:52:18
so much during that. You learned that
01:52:20
the training is, you know, it's huge
01:52:21
commitment in time. Um, you learned that
01:52:24
you don't wear white shirts when you're
01:52:25
fat cuz your nipples bleed and you look
01:52:27
horrible.
01:52:29
You you learn, you know, foods and so
01:52:32
many things you learn doing that. Um,
01:52:34
and you learn about, you know, so
01:52:36
competitiveness and, you know, so I had
01:52:39
a a great guy supporting me as a coach.
01:52:41
Um, you know, and you learned that you
01:52:43
follow a technique that it's a science
01:52:45
to it. It's not just do the work. Um we
01:52:48
had an incredible fundraising event that
01:52:51
turned out to be very connected to Rugby
01:52:53
World Cup because
01:52:55
uh the the um patron of Catw walkers
01:52:59
Zara Phillips and if you remember
01:53:01
there's a little story about her husband
01:53:03
playing for the England rugby team and
01:53:04
some behavior issues in Queenstown and
01:53:06
stuff and she came down to New Zealand
01:53:07
during the Rugby World Cup to say hello
01:53:09
but she didn't go to see him first. He
01:53:11
came to our fundraising event on the
01:53:13
night. And where it connects the dots a
01:53:15
little bit is a wonderful woman named
01:53:17
Marie who was in my team at Telecom at
01:53:19
the time in the Croch earthquakes who
01:53:21
was our only injured person. So she is
01:53:24
now a tetroplegic in a chair. We brought
01:53:27
her up to Aland. They met, you know. So
01:53:30
it was funny how that one commitment to
01:53:32
do that run bought a whole lot of things
01:53:33
together and amazing. What a privilege.
01:53:35
Um and I set myself a target for that
01:53:39
first marathon and got it, you know. So
01:53:41
>> what was the target?
01:53:42
>> Under four hours and
01:53:43
>> Oh, you did it sub four
01:53:44
>> 356
01:53:46
>> mate that's awesome.
01:53:46
>> Yeah. So so I then went on to do San
01:53:49
Francisco which I had not trained for at
01:53:51
all. So that was a bit you know and
01:53:52
Queenstown which was 201 15. Um and it
01:53:58
was the year that it rained for 3 hours
01:53:59
and hailed for an hour. It was it was
01:54:03
mindblowingly horrible. Um but yeah 4
01:54:06
and a half hours I think you know we got
01:54:07
it done.
01:54:07
>> Oh still getting it done. Um, yeah,
01:54:10
Queenstown Marathon. It's very, very
01:54:11
misleading, isn't it? You get to the
01:54:12
airport and there's murals everywhere
01:54:14
saying flat out beautiful. Nothing flat
01:54:16
about it. Especially around Lake Hayes.
01:54:17
>> No, that's a that's a fair trading.
01:54:19
>> Terrible.
01:54:21
>> Do you have any political aspirations?
01:54:23
>> No, not at all.
01:54:24
>> Not now. Not Not ever. Never say never.
01:54:26
>> No.
01:54:27
>> No.
01:54:27
>> No. It's funny. I don't know why you get
01:54:29
asked that question from time to time
01:54:31
and you just, you know, I I I worry that
01:54:35
in an age of populism, you have to do
01:54:38
things that aren't necessarily your
01:54:40
position, you know, to to engage and and
01:54:43
I just can't do that.
01:54:44
>> Mhm.
01:54:44
>> Um, having said that, I also have huge
01:54:47
respect for the people that do. You
01:54:48
know, one of the rules I always have is
01:54:50
if you're not prepared to do it, don't
01:54:51
crit don't criticize. you know,
01:54:53
>> you can't, you know, you can disagree on
01:54:55
policy and position and try and engage
01:54:57
and partner, but don't criticize
01:54:59
something you're not prepared to do.
01:55:00
>> Yeah.
01:55:00
>> Um, so, you know, and the one thing I
01:55:04
would say, you know, from the ones, you
01:55:05
know, you spend time with them, they
01:55:06
work incredibly hard. They genuinely are
01:55:09
there for a better New Zealand. They
01:55:10
just sometimes hold a different view of
01:55:12
how
01:55:12
>> and that's, you know, that's okay and we
01:55:14
need it, you know. So, always respect
01:55:17
people who stand up and do it. It's just
01:55:18
not me. M
01:55:19
>> I suppose I just ask that because after
01:55:21
Sir John Key went from the corporate
01:55:23
world into politics, I feel like there's
01:55:24
a lot of um business leaders that sort
01:55:25
of feel like they uh they could do it.
01:55:28
He like paved the way.
01:55:29
>> Yeah. And I do think it's really
01:55:30
valuable to have had
01:55:32
>> business experience or organizational
01:55:34
experience, you know,
01:55:35
>> any career that has been doing one thing
01:55:37
for your whole career, that's you know,
01:55:39
can be a challenge. And I think politics
01:55:41
is no different. So
01:55:42
>> I think people who bring real world
01:55:43
stuff to it really matters.
01:55:46
>> When are you at your happiest?
01:55:49
When am I happiest? Look, sometimes it's
01:55:52
driving with mates, you know. Sometimes
01:55:54
it's, you know, when family and, you
01:55:57
know, catching up and doing great
01:55:58
things, you know, when when you've got a
01:56:00
son who's traveling a lot and a daughter
01:56:01
who lives, you know, some, you know, so
01:56:02
you're getting together only sometimes.
01:56:05
Um, you know, sometimes it's, you know,
01:56:06
when you win, you know, like like we,
01:56:09
>> you know, when you've had something go
01:56:10
well and you're able to celebrate it,
01:56:12
you know, so I think it, you know, it's
01:56:15
it's about moments and people and
01:56:17
experiences.
01:56:18
>> You you still got a good relationship
01:56:20
with your kids. The reason I ask that is
01:56:22
like the careers you've had must come
01:56:24
with huge amount of sacrifice in terms
01:56:25
of time.
01:56:26
>> They do. And I was very very lucky that
01:56:27
my wife was prepared to be, you know,
01:56:30
the the committed parent, the one that
01:56:32
was there all the time for them. you
01:56:33
know, not not everyone makes that choice
01:56:35
and very lucky to have that.
01:56:36
>> Yeah.
01:56:37
>> Um and and they are great kids, you
01:56:39
know, and it's one thing, you know, one
01:56:41
of the greatest joy as a parent is when
01:56:42
other people say, "Hey, you know, your
01:56:44
son or daughter, they're, you know, is a
01:56:45
great person and as a
01:56:47
>> you know, and you see them with good
01:56:48
friends and you see them doing things
01:56:50
that are meaningful and you go, this is
01:56:52
really cool." Um,
01:56:53
>> and you know, I really feel for parents
01:56:55
of kids who aren't sure what they want
01:56:57
to do in the world. That must be the
01:56:58
hardest thing cuz how do you, you know,
01:57:00
you you're in that funny hands-on,
01:57:02
hands-off situation where you've got to
01:57:04
let them carve their own way, but you so
01:57:06
desperately want them to
01:57:08
>> end up Well, I was very lucky that they
01:57:10
are both quite clear and very
01:57:12
purposeful.
01:57:13
>> Um, you know, I really hope my daughter
01:57:15
doesn't listen to this cuz she's going
01:57:16
to give me such a hard time.
01:57:18
>> Yeah. Do you think they'd listen to
01:57:20
this? Two hours of the old man yapping
01:57:22
away or uh
01:57:23
>> probably not. No.
01:57:24
>> And if she did, why would she give you a
01:57:26
hard time? Oh, cuz that's her thing. We
01:57:28
are two alike, you know. You know, we
01:57:30
have a
01:57:31
>> we have a relationship that's you know
01:57:33
just you know it it's we poke each other
01:57:36
but also
01:57:37
>> whenever you know something important is
01:57:39
going down she comes straight to me you
01:57:41
know so and I always want that to be the
01:57:43
case. I think that's one thing you know
01:57:45
I've always tried to do and I think you
01:57:46
know for any parent has always said it
01:57:48
does not matter what the situation is
01:57:50
what you've done where you are you can
01:57:52
come here
01:57:53
>> and you'll be loved and safe.
01:57:54
>> Yeah. cuz men, you know, if they haven't
01:57:56
got that, that's that's a shame, you
01:57:57
know. So, that's so important.
01:58:00
>> So, would you say roasting is your love
01:58:02
language?
01:58:03
>> Yes.
01:58:05
>> That's good. That's good. It's it's not
01:58:07
for everyone. Um
01:58:08
>> I think the last message I got was
01:58:10
something in her car, you know, it's a
01:58:13
piece of upholstery or plastic that you
01:58:14
know on the on the A-pillar and it had
01:58:16
come off and she just sent me a photo
01:58:17
saying how to fix
01:58:20
and I went back with how did break.
01:58:24
you know, it's a good word economy.
01:58:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's just Yeah.
01:58:29
>> When when was the last time you cried?
01:58:31
>> Oh,
01:58:33
>> look, you know, sometimes it can be a
01:58:35
movie. Sometimes it can be
01:58:37
>> um it's one of the things, you know, so
01:58:40
you know, if you've gone through life
01:58:41
and you've spoken at funerals of people
01:58:43
you loved uh or people you were close
01:58:45
to,
01:58:46
>> you know, and I find it hard to get
01:58:48
through, you know, if you've been given
01:58:50
the privilege of eulogy, I find it hard
01:58:51
to get through that sometimes. Um, and
01:58:54
people often ask, you know, how do I
01:58:56
write a good one? Because if you've
01:58:57
communicated, you sort of, you know,
01:58:59
they think. One thing I did say after a
01:59:01
particularly bad couple of years, I
01:59:02
said, look, I'm just not available
01:59:03
anymore. I don't don't want to do
01:59:05
anymore. Um,
01:59:06
>> but I think one of the things is just
01:59:08
say it to yourself several times. I find
01:59:10
things sneak up on you.
01:59:11
>> You know, you a moment comes through
01:59:13
your mind and you go, ah, you I'm just
01:59:14
I'm feeling it. Um and it's most it's
01:59:18
always about people things and about you
01:59:20
know
01:59:21
>> um and particularly you know one one
01:59:24
someone told me ages ago you know when
01:59:27
when you lose someone and it's usually
01:59:28
you know it's often a a tragic or sad
01:59:31
you know it's a it's a disease that's
01:59:32
occurred or a sickness that's occurred.
01:59:34
>> Um and someone said you know we're not
01:59:36
sad about what is because you don't want
01:59:37
that person suffering they the way they
01:59:39
were or you know or or being in a bad
01:59:41
situation. It's about, you know, we miss
01:59:44
what is not, which is their presence,
01:59:45
their time, their, you know, and so you
01:59:47
keep reminding yourself you've had the
01:59:48
privilege of their presence.
01:59:50
>> Um,
01:59:51
>> yeah, that's
01:59:52
>> Yeah. No,
01:59:54
I, you know, I'm not, I do get
01:59:57
emotional. Don't love it when you do.
01:59:59
You know, you sort of, you know, like
02:00:00
most men, you go, I don't do that.
02:00:02
>> I think How, how old are you?
02:00:04
>> 59.
02:00:04
>> 59. Yeah, I'm 53. I feel like it's a
02:00:06
generational thing, but I'm I'm getting
02:00:08
more emotional as I as I get into this
02:00:10
>> this era of my life. And I'm I'm I'm
02:00:13
here for it, too.
02:00:14
>> Yeah. Look, I I I think it's the
02:00:16
complete set, you know. It' be a shame
02:00:18
not to be,
02:00:19
>> you know,
02:00:19
>> but it was frowned upon um like when we
02:00:21
were coming through the the ranks, I
02:00:23
guess.
02:00:23
>> Yeah. I think it just made people
02:00:24
uncomfortable. They didn't know what to
02:00:26
do next, you know. I don't think I would
02:00:27
have known what to do next was someone,
02:00:29
you know,
02:00:29
>> whereas just saying are you okay?
02:00:32
>> Arm around the shoulder. That's all it
02:00:33
needs.
02:00:34
>> Yeah. Does have you sort of found
02:00:36
vulnerability has its place in
02:00:37
leadership?
02:00:38
>> A million%. Yeah. Like the most powerful
02:00:41
thing you can do is say I didn't get
02:00:42
that right.
02:00:44
>> Because you can spend a lot of time
02:00:45
building your case for why you might
02:00:48
have been right as opposed to just going
02:00:49
I didn't get that right. And that that
02:00:51
empowers everyone else to be able to say
02:00:53
that
02:00:54
>> and it empowers a better idea. You know
02:00:57
cuz cuz if you are going I'm just going
02:00:59
to defend where I was at and never be
02:01:01
wrong. It's that kills innovation kills
02:01:04
you know it kills everything.
02:01:06
>> It's almost like a dictatorship at that
02:01:07
point isn't it?
02:01:07
>> Yeah. just being able to go, okay, fair
02:01:09
call.
02:01:10
>> Yeah. Well, it's like you sort of said
02:01:11
at the beginning of the the chat, um if
02:01:13
if you're doing media interviews, um
02:01:15
there's a bit some power in saying, "I
02:01:16
don't know," or "I don't have the answer
02:01:17
to that."
02:01:18
>> Well, and you know, and sometimes, not
02:01:20
as often, but sometimes we got it wrong,
02:01:23
>> you know. So, you know, and and it's
02:01:25
really important. I think it's a key
02:01:26
leadership thing to front for the team
02:01:27
when you got it wrong
02:01:29
>> and say, "We got it wrong. I'm sorry.
02:01:31
This is what we're doing to fix that."
02:01:33
>> What are you most afraid of?
02:01:37
not not winning, not achieving, you
02:01:40
know, when you're very achievement
02:01:41
driven, you know, not doing that is not
02:01:44
comfortable.
02:01:46
>> Yeah. When when you're that competitive,
02:01:47
how does how does losing sit with you?
02:01:49
Are you you able to reframe it as um
02:01:51
yeah, we don't lose, we learn, or any
02:01:53
sort of catchphrases.
02:01:55
>> Yeah. You hear that sometimes and go,
02:01:56
"Oh, come on." You know,
02:01:58
>> it still sucks. You frame it anyway.
02:02:00
Lipstick on a pig.
02:02:01
>> That's exactly right. It does still
02:02:02
suck. One really important thing is
02:02:04
never lose the ability to congratulate
02:02:06
the winner. Like like you know being the
02:02:09
southpost that's not that's not
02:02:11
leadership. So
02:02:12
>> you know and you know in business that
02:02:14
doesn't often happen. I'm not ringing
02:02:15
all worse to say well done but um but
02:02:18
you know the situation. So it's really
02:02:21
important to be able to congratulate
02:02:22
someone who did better. Um and then it's
02:02:25
you know but but and also you know be
02:02:28
able to be okay with not being first.
02:02:30
just do something about it,
02:02:32
>> you know. Um or genuinely go, you know
02:02:35
what, that that was amazing. Whoever
02:02:36
that was, they did a really good job.
02:02:38
>> Mhm.
02:02:39
>> The next thing I was going to ask you is
02:02:41
um what's your best and worst habits?
02:02:43
>> Um I feel like that last answer you gave
02:02:46
may maybe be it. Maybe your best and
02:02:48
worst habit is the same thing that
02:02:49
competitive streak.
02:02:50
>> It can be. Yeah. Cuz you know, I
02:02:52
remember when you first start getting
02:02:54
that feedback, you go, "No, no, it's
02:02:55
achievement orientation." And then you
02:02:57
go, "Hang on a minute." You need to
02:02:58
listen and go, "What's the bad side of
02:03:00
competitive?"
02:03:01
>> I I, you know, listened to some of the
02:03:03
other cars. I knew you asked the what's
02:03:04
your worst habit story. Mine's FOMO.
02:03:07
>> Oh, is it?
02:03:07
>> Yeah.
02:03:08
>> When do you get FOMO?
02:03:09
>> Oh, it can be anything. It can be a car.
02:03:11
It can be a trinket. It can be an event.
02:03:15
>> You know, I I would often be told, why
02:03:17
do you stack your diary so full? And you
02:03:18
go, cuz I wanted to be there, there,
02:03:20
there. You know, it's
02:03:21
>> whereas being okay to go, you know what?
02:03:23
That's fine. Don't need to be at
02:03:25
everything. don't need to take every
02:03:26
opportunity. And a little bit in
02:03:28
business, too. You know, sometimes, you
02:03:29
know, there's a great rule that says,
02:03:31
don't bark at every passing car. Um, you
02:03:33
know, not every opportunity is one we
02:03:36
need to do. Sometimes being great at
02:03:39
your core day in day out is the most
02:03:41
powerful thing.
02:03:42
>> Are you Are you good at saying no to
02:03:43
things that you don't want to do?
02:03:44
>> No. No. So, I'm learning to be
02:03:46
>> Is that Is that why you're here today?
02:03:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
02:03:50
That is it.
02:03:52
No, it's it's Yeah. No, I'm not as good
02:03:55
as I need to be.
02:03:56
>> And more importantly, better at going,
02:03:58
you know what, there's a person in my
02:03:59
team that would really be great at that.
02:04:01
>> You know, because sometimes you confuse
02:04:03
leadership means I need to step up with
02:04:05
leadership means I've got an amazing
02:04:08
team. What we need to do is put the
02:04:09
right person in front of this and
02:04:10
they'll grow and develop from it.
02:04:13
>> Do you have any entrepreneurial
02:04:15
ambitions or anything?
02:04:16
>> Oh yes. You know, like being on the
02:04:19
board at Ice House for nearly 10 years,
02:04:21
>> you know, you were spending your time in
02:04:23
admiration of entrepreneurs. You know,
02:04:25
one of the
02:04:26
>> brand things the guys did there was talk
02:04:28
about grit, you know, and the grit that
02:04:30
it takes to build a business, to start
02:04:32
something, to do that. Um, you know, I'm
02:04:36
invested in a bunch of startup
02:04:38
businesses and things like that. You
02:04:39
know, this is, you know, it's it's I
02:04:41
have a passion for that much more than
02:04:43
probably I do for large corporate
02:04:44
organizations. It's probably why I love
02:04:47
what this food stuffs co-op is 104 years
02:04:49
on. It's just a collection of
02:04:50
entrepreneurs running a business. Um,
02:04:53
and you know, huge respect for the
02:04:57
people that own our stores that day in
02:04:59
day out are going, you know, they're
02:05:01
everything from facing a really angry
02:05:03
customer and butchery to dealing with,
02:05:04
have I got the cash flow right to pay
02:05:05
the stock bill,
02:05:07
>> you know, and, you know, no, people
02:05:09
don't see all of that stuff because
02:05:10
we've we've had a couple of years of a
02:05:12
different story being told,
02:05:13
>> but it is just like any business.
02:05:16
when your time at food stuff ends um
02:05:19
hopefully on your terms.
02:05:20
>> Is it is it like an all black coach
02:05:22
where
02:05:23
you're either you're being fired or
02:05:26
you're going to be I Brad Thorne had a
02:05:27
quote about coaches. It's like you've
02:05:29
been fired or you're going to be fired.
02:05:30
>> Yeah. You're being fired or you're
02:05:32
you're about to be or some Yeah. Um
02:05:35
that's a really brutal, you know, cuz
02:05:37
you're not just being judged by,
02:05:39
>> you know, it that one there, there's one
02:05:41
coach, there are lots of observers,
02:05:43
there's a nation who are full of
02:05:44
opinion,
02:05:45
>> you know, always respect for someone who
02:05:47
steps into that role. Um
02:05:49
>> and you see some of the calmst, bravest
02:05:51
leaders in that role because they've got
02:05:53
so much and they the ability to blinker
02:05:55
and go, I'm just going to make this team
02:05:56
amazing. That's you know um look you
02:06:00
know you always you know there's a great
02:06:02
saying which is CEOs serve at the
02:06:03
pleasure of the board
02:06:04
>> and when the board you know and I I've
02:06:07
always said to my chairman who you know
02:06:09
we're very blessed to have a great chair
02:06:11
you know our chairs are always a store
02:06:12
owner. So um you know it's amazing to
02:06:15
have someone who's got the ability to
02:06:16
govern and govern strongly an
02:06:18
organization like this. I've always said
02:06:20
to him, hey, if you reach a day where
02:06:21
it's not right, say the word
02:06:23
>> because I I never want to be in a
02:06:25
situation where it's, you know, going
02:06:27
through a process. We should be big
02:06:28
people who can high five and go, it's
02:06:30
been great. We're done.
02:06:31
>> Um, and, you know, I think that's really
02:06:34
important. I I would like to think I'll
02:06:36
call it before they do because I'd like
02:06:39
to think that, you know, I'll go, I know
02:06:40
when I've given everything I know how to
02:06:42
give to this and it's chance for someone
02:06:44
else to pick up the energy and run.
02:06:47
>> Yeah. You want to Yeah. You don't want
02:06:48
to overstay your welcome at the party.
02:06:50
>> No.
02:06:50
>> Um, when when you when you do leave, um,
02:06:53
what do you hope people at Food Stuff
02:06:54
say about you?
02:06:56
>> How would you like to be remembered for
02:06:57
for this role?
02:06:58
>> Look, I'd like to, you know, I think
02:07:00
authenticity really matters to me. I
02:07:03
think heart and, you know, a a drive for
02:07:07
results and success. Um, an ability to
02:07:10
build pride in what the people in that
02:07:12
organization do. They should feel proud
02:07:14
of what they do. You know, if there's
02:07:15
one thing that makes me sad right now is
02:07:17
that we've got a bit of a societal and
02:07:19
political conversation that is trying to
02:07:21
make them not proud of what they do.
02:07:23
>> And that isn't fair or right. They
02:07:25
should be proud of what they do. Um, and
02:07:27
I really, you know, we have a purpose
02:07:29
that we wrote about 8 years ago. We had
02:07:31
500 people engaged in it and we
02:07:33
basically said our purpose is to make
02:07:35
sure New Zealanders get more out of
02:07:37
life. So I'd really like to be able to
02:07:39
stand back and go, did what food stuffs
02:07:41
represents in every community through
02:07:43
its brands and its stores make people,
02:07:46
you know, make sure people got more out
02:07:47
of life.
02:07:48
>> You know, I I love some of our stories
02:07:50
like, you know, Tamroni had the
02:07:52
supermarket by the railway line. It had
02:07:54
been there forever. And often this
02:07:56
happens in these regional towns and we
02:07:57
try to do the reverse, which is the new
02:07:59
stuff goes to a region first. We had to
02:08:02
close the store because the site was the
02:08:04
site we needed to be on and you couldn't
02:08:05
trade it and build it because we had to
02:08:06
knock it over and discover there was a
02:08:09
train buried under it and a few other
02:08:10
things.
02:08:13
And we went the nearest store is 45 to
02:08:15
50 minutes away. How does this community
02:08:17
get what it needs? So the team did a
02:08:20
deal with the local college to use their
02:08:22
gymnasium for 18 months and we built a
02:08:24
new world inside the gym
02:08:26
>> and operated the store out of there
02:08:28
while we built the new store. These are
02:08:30
things that only locallyowned New
02:08:32
Zealand organizations can do. We're, you
02:08:34
know, innovative and think about this
02:08:36
stuff. Those are the things I want to be
02:08:38
proud of when you look back, you know,
02:08:39
and, you know, really proud of the way
02:08:41
we served the co process.
02:08:45
>> Um, and the other thing I'd like to see
02:08:47
happen before I'm done is that we become
02:08:49
a national organization,
02:08:51
>> you know, because it's just right in
02:08:53
terms of its benefit for everybody out
02:08:55
there. M
02:08:55
>> you know you look at and go if LD came
02:08:58
to New Zealand would they be asked to be
02:09:00
a North and South Island company it's
02:09:02
just no way um so when we say to
02:09:05
ourselves we need to get better value on
02:09:07
shelf for customers what are the big
02:09:08
things we can do that is the biggest
02:09:10
thing
02:09:11
>> so I would love to pull that off
02:09:16
>> is is that a big deal or is it going to
02:09:18
be a hard thing to pull off I mean
02:09:19
>> oh it's been a very hard thing to pull
02:09:20
off so it's been
02:09:21
>> why is it so difficult
02:09:23
>> um because there is, you know, we need
02:09:26
to do as good a job as we can of
02:09:27
communicating why it's the right thing
02:09:29
for consumers,
02:09:30
>> why it's the right thing for our
02:09:31
suppliers and partners, why it's the
02:09:33
right thing for our stakeholders,
02:09:35
investors, you know, and there is a, you
02:09:37
know, because there's been a
02:09:38
conversation about supermarkets and
02:09:40
because there's been so much go on, we
02:09:42
went through a process with the Commerce
02:09:44
Commission. Um, they declined it three
02:09:47
times. Uh, and we're at the end of that
02:09:49
process, we we can't ask again. Uh the
02:09:52
concern is will it work for suppliers
02:09:54
because at the moment a supplier can you
02:09:56
know sell to North Island sell to South
02:09:58
Island if there was one would they be
02:10:00
one chance and done. Our view on that is
02:10:02
quite different which is that we have
02:10:03
three banners. So it's pack and save new
02:10:05
world for square. They make different
02:10:06
supplier and ranging decisions.
02:10:08
>> We love that we have little suppliers
02:10:12
who might start in one town who are in
02:10:14
the new world and grow from there. We
02:10:16
have 105 years of that being our story.
02:10:19
And you know, last year we added 114 new
02:10:22
New Zealand suppliers and our New
02:10:24
Zealand supplier base are growing faster
02:10:26
than any other supplier group. So we
02:10:28
look at and go, we're really proud of
02:10:30
what we've delivered for that. Merged
02:10:32
would be all of those opportunities
02:10:34
still there, but also the chance to go,
02:10:36
we'd love to win all of New Zealand and
02:10:37
we could do it.
02:10:38
>> So it unlocks hundreds of millions of
02:10:42
dollars of cost over a 10-year program
02:10:43
which we could put back in the price.
02:10:46
So, and we compete. Now, people look at
02:10:48
us and go, "You're big." And you go,
02:10:49
"Hang on a minute. Walworth is eight
02:10:51
times our size."
02:10:52
>> New Zealand and Australia. Costco are 50
02:10:55
times our size. So, in this industry, I
02:10:59
think New Zealanders deserve to have a
02:11:00
good New Zealandowned organization and
02:11:02
it can compete with the world's best and
02:11:04
that's what's good for consumers.
02:11:06
>> So, we need to be the strongest we can
02:11:08
be. So, that's why, you know, we think
02:11:11
it's right. So, as we speak right now
02:11:14
today, it's it's in court from the 2nd
02:11:16
to 6th of March is the next step.
02:11:18
>> So,
02:11:19
>> reading between the lines, it sounds
02:11:20
like um your your job's not done at Food
02:11:23
Stuffs until this is done.
02:11:25
>> That Yeah, look um I wouldn't want that
02:11:28
to turn into 20 years. That would be
02:11:31
that would be good for no one. Uh you
02:11:34
know what what we thought would be the
02:11:37
hardest bit about that would be getting
02:11:38
the South Island to agree to merge with
02:11:39
the North Island. you know, this is
02:11:41
Canterbury plays Oakland. You know, it's
02:11:43
a it's that's a hundredy old social, you
02:11:47
know, distance. Um, and we were so proud
02:11:50
of, you know, everybody, hundreds of
02:11:52
leaders worked to get to a point where
02:11:53
when it went to our owners, our members
02:11:55
for a vote, 99 and something% of them on
02:11:58
both islands voted yes.
02:11:59
>> Wow.
02:12:00
>> Right. So, you went So, you know, that
02:12:02
was we thought that was going to be the
02:12:03
real hard bit. Turned out another bit
02:12:06
was hard. Um but they you know so you
02:12:09
know that's why we believe in it because
02:12:11
they've all said we've heard the story
02:12:12
we've seen the argument we've seen the
02:12:14
case let's get it done you know so still
02:12:17
love to see it done it's the right thing
02:12:19
to do for our consumers for our
02:12:22
suppliers and for New Zealand as a whole
02:12:24
>> because we need a really you know these
02:12:25
are high capital businesses
02:12:28
>> you know building stores is hundreds of
02:12:30
millions of dollars and so you need
02:12:32
scale to get it done
02:12:34
>> um but New Zealand has co-ops Right.
02:12:36
You've mentioned Fonta, there's us,
02:12:38
there's M 10, there's, you know,
02:12:40
>> it's a funny thing. We have more co-ops
02:12:42
in most countries. The reason for that
02:12:43
is our scale. We are low scale. How do
02:12:46
you get scale without having to have
02:12:48
every single business have it?
02:12:50
>> You form a co-op. That's why it happened
02:12:52
in 1922.
02:12:53
>> That's why it's time it should be
02:12:54
allowed to be national.
02:12:56
>> Gez, you're passionate about it, aren't
02:12:57
you?
02:12:58
>> Yeah. Yeah, I am.
02:12:59
>> I suppose you got to be.
02:13:00
>> That's right.
02:13:01
>> Are you proud of yourself? Not just not
02:13:04
just the career thing, but the just the
02:13:05
whole the whole package.
02:13:07
>> Um I I struggle with the word because it
02:13:10
I I don't like arrogance, you know, and
02:13:12
I I
02:13:13
>> that that line between pride and
02:13:15
arrogance. Um so if anyone ever said to
02:13:17
me, you're arrogant, I'd be really
02:13:18
upset. Um I I you know, I try to be
02:13:22
proud, you know, so you try to look back
02:13:24
and go, "Hey, it's turned out okay." you
02:13:26
know, and that you know, you've you've
02:13:29
not, you know, I' I'm probably quicker
02:13:31
to think about the things that could
02:13:32
have been better rather than the things
02:13:33
that were good.
02:13:35
>> And maybe that's just part of a natural
02:13:37
drive.
02:13:38
>> Yeah. You're part of that competitive
02:13:40
journey.
02:13:42
>> When the time comes that you pass away,
02:13:44
what hopefully many years from now, what
02:13:46
um what three words would you like your
02:13:48
family to and close friends to say about
02:13:51
you?
02:13:52
Uh, I think, you know, being a a good
02:13:55
parent and person and being someone who
02:13:58
cared about people,
02:14:00
>> um, someone, you know, someone who who
02:14:02
did okay in life and then made, you
02:14:04
know, used that to do well for others.
02:14:07
Um,
02:14:08
>> you know, I think, um, I read an amazing
02:14:10
book a couple last summer, um, called
02:14:12
Die with Zero
02:14:13
>> and it was really,
02:14:14
>> was it Die with Zero?
02:14:15
>> Die with Zero.
02:14:16
>> And it was a really interesting story
02:14:17
of, you know, so how do you plan? And it
02:14:19
had a very sobering piece that said, "Go
02:14:21
on to these apps and it tells you when
02:14:22
roughly you're going to die
02:14:24
>> based on, you know, age, health, stage,
02:14:27
fitness, lifestyle." Yeah. All of that.
02:14:30
And you you do that and you go, "Oh,
02:14:31
>> not really sure I wanted that." Um, but,
02:14:34
you know, having impact would really
02:14:36
matter. I like people look back and go,
02:14:38
there was some stuff he did that turned
02:14:39
out good. M
02:14:40
>> you know um and that die of zero it
02:14:43
talks about you know one of the things
02:14:45
that really struck home for me was
02:14:47
leaving
02:14:48
$100,000 in your will to a social
02:14:51
interest that you really care about is
02:14:53
less powerful than giving them 50 grand
02:14:55
now
02:14:56
>> you know so it actually it was like you
02:14:58
know saying
02:14:59
>> you know for your kids you know support
02:15:01
them now into a home rather than you
02:15:04
know when they've got to 40 or 50 and
02:15:06
you've passed
02:15:07
>> you know so
02:15:08
>> well so that altruistic piece that
02:15:10
you're talking about. You get to
02:15:11
experience, you know, there's that
02:15:12
saying giving is better than receiving.
02:15:13
You get to experience the uh the joy of
02:15:16
making a difference.
02:15:17
>> Yeah. And I get the privilege of that
02:15:19
for the organization and you're always
02:15:21
very conscious, you know, that's not my
02:15:22
money, that's just I'm part of leading
02:15:25
it. So you you get part of doing the
02:15:27
right things for that point of view and
02:15:28
then do your own things in your personal
02:15:30
world. Um and and you know but the you
02:15:33
know for example one of the things
02:15:34
that's been on our minds is you know so
02:15:36
where is our place in social license you
02:15:39
know in our in our community support. So
02:15:41
first rule is we make a living in our
02:15:44
community not off our community
02:15:46
>> right? So you think about that and you
02:15:48
go how do I earn the right to be in this
02:15:49
community every week and every one of
02:15:51
our owners thinks about that. And then
02:15:53
we go how do we earn the right to be a
02:15:54
brand that has a license to operate in
02:15:56
New Zealand through what we do. And one
02:15:59
of the things and I, you know, I learned
02:16:00
it probably most from great
02:16:01
organizations like Main Freight who, you
02:16:03
know, sort of they go, okay, who are our
02:16:06
people? Um, they have a lot of
02:16:07
bluecollar workforce, a lot of logistics
02:16:09
workforce.
02:16:10
>> What matters most is education. So, you
02:16:12
know, their big thing is books in
02:16:14
schools and how do they get books into
02:16:16
the homes and families so that education
02:16:18
begins. You look at us, you go, our job
02:16:20
is food. It's what we do. Uh, food
02:16:22
poverty is always going to exist. So,
02:16:24
how do we play a role in food poverty?
02:16:25
And that's where the social supermarkets
02:16:28
idea came from. Um because it's about
02:16:30
dignity and respect, but also getting to
02:16:33
what people need. It's how we support
02:16:35
all the food banks we do and all, you
02:16:36
know, so we do the thing we're best at,
02:16:38
which is helping to solve that problem.
02:16:41
>> Um so it's a real privilege. You know,
02:16:44
this year we worked with Kindness
02:16:46
Collective. They they had an amazing
02:16:48
store in Odo that was part supermarket
02:16:50
that we made happen and part gift store
02:16:52
with toys. And then they bought in
02:16:55
people they support that they know. Um,
02:16:57
and watching people fill a trolley with
02:16:59
gifts for kids that they never would
02:17:00
have got another way and fill another
02:17:02
trolley with food that was going to be
02:17:04
part of them having somewhat of a
02:17:05
Christmas and you just go,
02:17:07
>> you know, this is an amazing privilege
02:17:08
to be able to be here. Um, and you know,
02:17:11
I just worked checkout where there was
02:17:13
no money involved, but you know, um,
02:17:15
just just saying to people, have you got
02:17:18
everything you need? And you know, where
02:17:19
you going to be for Christmas and what
02:17:20
are you going to do? and seeing that
02:17:22
stuff for real.
02:17:25
>> This has been a great chat today. Do you
02:17:26
know how long it's been?
02:17:27
>> No idea.
02:17:28
>> Two and a quarter.
02:17:29
>> Right.
02:17:29
>> Two and a quarter. It's a long it's a
02:17:31
long conversation. Um but it's been
02:17:33
great. How is it for you?
02:17:35
>> Uh like you said, it's just it's been
02:17:38
>> uh it's felt really encouraging and safe
02:17:40
and interesting and you know, you noted
02:17:43
when I came in someone you know, someone
02:17:44
had put together a pile of notes which
02:17:45
we haven't looked at.
02:17:46
>> You know, it's been a great
02:17:48
conversation.
02:17:49
>> Yeah, it's awesome. Um, yeah. Well, you
02:17:51
can't say it. But, um, I'm proud of you
02:17:53
and it's been really nice to have you on
02:17:55
the podcast today.
02:17:56
>> Thanks. And there's something I've
02:17:58
learned is just say thanks when someone
02:17:59
says something like that.
02:18:00
>> Yeah.
02:18:00
>> Yeah.
02:18:01
>> Yeah. I think that's another Kiwi thing.
02:18:02
We're not good at taking compliments.
02:18:04
>> No, no, no. We usually come back with an
02:18:06
uh
02:18:07
>> Well, I've even noticed my my girlfriend
02:18:09
do it. If someone comments on the
02:18:10
clothes she's wearing, she'll say, "Oh,
02:18:12
yeah. I got it on sale." Or,
02:18:13
>> you know, it's like we we just can't
02:18:15
just sit there and take a compliment.
02:18:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Being able to say,
02:18:18
"Thank you. I really like it,
02:18:20
>> you know.
02:18:20
>> Yeah.
02:18:21
>> Well, Chris Quinn, I I could sit here
02:18:23
all day and pick your brains about
02:18:24
leadership. Um, but it's been great
02:18:25
getting to know the man behind the
02:18:27
titles today, and I can't thank you
02:18:28
enough for coming on my podcast.
02:18:30
>> Thank you. I really enjoyed it.