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[Music]
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Kiwis love it
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first. Like Finn, we're making
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waves. Generate switch online
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[Music]
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today. Lee Warren, welcome to my
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podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having
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me. First of all, what are you are you
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working for Department of Corrections?
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No, I just wanted to make sure I was
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wearing the correct attire.
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Um, if you're listening to this, you
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won't know what we're talking about. If
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you're watching this on YouTube, you
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will. He's wearing like like green
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Department of Corrections badged
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overalls. Where did you Where'd you get
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them from? Are you allowed them?
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Technically, yes. And and and
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technically no. I I I don't know. Until
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I get told off, it's it's fine, right?
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you know, ask for forgiveness, not
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permission. Um, found I think it was
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Facebook um sell it. You know how you
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looking for nothing in particular,
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wasting time and and I was like, "Oh, 10
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bucks." Yeah. Done. Yeah. And then here
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we are. Overalls and I the green
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underneath I I recognize what that is.
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That's an Achilles top. Are you an
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Achilles athlete? I am. I am. I found it
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super helpful to be um at events with a
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group. Um it just makes it so much
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easier. I mean, you do running as well.
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when you run alone, it's super boring,
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but you're in your own mind and
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sometimes it's good for training. Um,
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but when you're at an event, yeah, it's
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really cool to do it with a group and
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then your group goes places and then
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you're with somewhere with a group and
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and I found that, yeah, super good,
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especially in New York. Such a great
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community. For anyone that doesn't know,
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what's the quick spiel about Archilles?
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Who are they? Quick spiel about Arches,
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weirdly enough, I thought it was blind
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people, but because you know, bright
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yellow, they do do a lot of a lot of
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guided runs for blind runners. It's so
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it's not just um um sight impaired. It's
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for anyone with any disability and they
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help you get involved with a guide or
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without but get involved with a group
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and just get fit basically and and help
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you go to events. It's about um your
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win, your challenge, your event and then
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they'll help you succeed with other
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people that want to help you help you
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succeed. Yeah. Yeah. And they do a great
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job and that's a great uh explanation as
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well. Now this is your very first
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podcast. Congratulations. Thanks. What
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was that noise? It was my cherry
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popping. Uh, it is. I feel super
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nervous. I'm with you. You know, I'm I'm
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JJ. This is like This is massive. And
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it's been years since I've been involved
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with anyone who's been famous or is
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still famous uh and and and doing
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something. You has been I think I was a
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never and never was. Um, no, it's it's
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well it's great to have you here cuz
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I've known you for a very long time and
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um I saw you comment on one of my posts
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on one of the social media platforms and
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I thought [ __ ] Lee would be a great
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story to tell like uh you just to shine
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a shine a bit of a light on you and some
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of the stuff you've done because um I
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don't know if you like the i word but I
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find you an inspirational guy. Thank
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you. I I was just getting lost with the
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fact that you swore and I'm like we can
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switch. That's cool. Um thank you. No, I
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I I do take it with a grain of salt
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nowadays. I used to rub it off and be
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like, "Oh, no. I'm not an inspiration."
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But anytime um I find now that somebody
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reflects on something that you do, you
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need to take it, you know, like when
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somebody cheers for something that
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you've done, you need to take it and and
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and take it as part of yourself and say,
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"That's me. I I've done this. I've
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deserved this." And and not just rush
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off stage quickly and and I'm all
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embarrassed. Um, so thank you. I
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appreciate that. I don't see myself as
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an inspiration and yet I want and like
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the idea of being inspirational to
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people, which sounds such a justosition
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and and ironic, but yeah. Thank you.
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Now, how did our paths cross? I was
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thinking about this the other day cuz
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I've I've known you a very long time,
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but I can't I can't pinpoint I can't I
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can't trace the timeline back to the to
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the beginning. the the very first and I
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found it the other day after Coldplay
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was here was um you got me on to do a
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song and I can't remember how we got
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into contact for the the paradise
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paralyze and I I park and I I can't shop
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and all this. It was it was terrible
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wording. Oh no, I remember that. It was
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so good. I I wrote it and I thought,
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"Oh, you know, um I think we were on the
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show with Mike Padau at the time, JJ,
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Mike, and Diamond. Mike Mike was the
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only one of us that can sing and he was
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like, I'm not going to sing this." So, I
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thought we need to like out we need to
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find have it sung by an actual real life
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disabled person. Um yeah, there was a
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line in there like, "My shoes are are
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brand new all the time."
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Spacious Lou at the Yeah. Yeah. And and
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and good park. I always get good
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parking. Uh it was it was phenomenal. I
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I loved it. I thought it was hilarious.
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And I I looked at the lines and I
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thought, "This is great." Um, yeah. And
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I think we we it was either we met
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through that and then the Edge Next Top
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Friend or it was the other way around.
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It was the Edge Next Top Friend. And
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then you were like, "Oh yeah, that's
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right. Lee's in a chair. We'll get him
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to do the song." But I remember the
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song. The song was way better than than
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the Edge Next Top Friend. I still keep
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in contact with Ollie as well. What is
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the Next Top Edge Next Top Friend? So
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the Edge Next Top Friend was um kind of
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like your your big brother. And again,
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this is for anyone that's like 20 years
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old. You've got no idea what's going on.
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Um, and we you had a bunch of people
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reality TV and you chuck them together
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and then quickly take them out of their
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norm and their brain of of what's normal
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for them and you see people like cry of
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somebody leaving after two days and
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you're like, well, that's rubbish. And
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then when you put yourself in that
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situation, you're like, oh my gosh,
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yeah. No, it totally does happen. And
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all the the reality shows like Mr. beast
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or whatever it is. I've been have been
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watching those. Likewise. And um yeah,
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it's great. And the money the money
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involved is insane. Uh and you see
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people and and they're crying and and
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the the mental and emotional side of it
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because you're outside of your norm.
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Everything else is heightened. We were
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talking before about the emotional and
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am I an emotional person? You think you
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might be, but then when you put yourself
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in a completely different situation,
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everything's out the window. Everything
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you think you know about yourself is
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gone. and then everything's new and that
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was that was the edge next trend. was to
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see who was going to be voted on. What
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was it? Bibo, Facebook, um Insta wasn't
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around. MySpace.
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Yeah. Yeah, that's what it's coming back
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to me now. So, Next Top Friend, it was
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like you guys had to accumulate as many
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social media friends as what you could
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or else you'd be kicked out. And we we
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discovered um this was in the very early
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days of Facebook. This is how early it
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was. We discovered there was a limit of
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a thousand friends that any individual
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can have on Facebook. And then um so our
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promo stuff were like scrambling around
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trying to get hold of Zuckerberg or
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whoever to get this cap. Yeah. Oh,
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that's fascinating. Oh yeah. No, it's
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coming back to me now. And it was in a
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house in St. Mary's Bay. That's right.
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And it was a This is inconvenient for
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you, a two-story house. And there were
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disputes going on with um the Edge and
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the Teny Tribunal for like years
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afterwards because the the walls around
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the stairway were damaged. Oh, I
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remember the me broken out. I'm going to
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jump down. It was Oh. Oh, yeah. I'm not
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going to say names, but somebody um
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yeah, jumped down there and and their
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elbow went through the wall and then it
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was like fixing it and fixing things to
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the walls with the M3 easy remove and it
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would pull off paint and somebody would
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go, "Well, that's not easy to remove.
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Look at it's just damaged." Oh, yeah. I
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remember all of that. So, um I've got a
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quote from you. Uh my life changed for
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the better after my accident. It was one
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of the best things that happened to me.
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It just took a few years for me to
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understand that. Yeah. So the you're um
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this chair that you're in, you've been
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in that since you were 16 and you're how
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old now?
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50. 50. Yeah. You've been in in the
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chair for way longer than what you were
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out of it. Yeah. And
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it it's a hard comment or or or quote.
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Thank you for that. Um but it's very
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true. It it does um hopefully resonate
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with a lot of people because it took me
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a while to get myself out of my own way.
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Uh what does that mean? Yeah, I was my
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own worst enemy, you know, and anyone
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that says that or or or realizes that
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that's that's true um knows what I mean
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by that. it where at the start of me
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breaking my back, I was trying to do
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without realizing it, trying to do all
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the same stuff that I was doing before I
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broke my back, which I couldn't. So then
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I would get frustrated and then I would
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lock it up in this little chest inside
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of me of, you know, because I'm in a
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wheelchair. But then I also put
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everything else in there. Why can't I
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get a girlfriend? Why can't I buy a
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house? Why haven't I got a car? Why am I
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getting pulled over by the police cuz
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I'm drunk? Um, everything was because
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I'm in a wheelchair. Yeah, I know.
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There's loads of stories like that.
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Actually, yeah. And then he was like,
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you know, oh, is that a wheelchair in
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the back? Well, how do you drive? And I
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was like, fast. And then he still gave
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me a ticket. But but everything that
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went wrong in my life for the first few
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years of being in a chair wasn't because
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I was speeding, um, because I was drunk,
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because of this. It was because I was in
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a chair.
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And that meant that anytime anything to
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do with being in a chair was was
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frustrating me or got that box opened up
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and it was a jack in the boxes and
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everything came out and I I'd abused
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people and it was it was quite horrible.
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I look back on that time and I was I was
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an ass. I was a terrible person. I'm
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surprised I I even had one girlfriend,
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let alone several. Um not at once or one
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time. Um but it was I know. Sorry, I I
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go in sidet tracks. I distract myself.
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We're having these beautiful moments and
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then I ruin them. You ruin it with these
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little sidebars. But it it's very true.
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But that was that was the type of person
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I was and until I got out of my own way
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and and moved on um and stopped allowing
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myself to get in my own way. I mean,
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there was how it came to a head because
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everything comes to a head. You know,
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somebody says, "Oh, I woke up the next
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day and made a decision and I made a
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choice." I'm not that guy. I'm a slow
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learner. very slow learner. Um, and it
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took me a long time and it it came to a
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head where I actually tried to commit
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suicide. Um, and when I say try, I did
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not not I was pretending and and I got I
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got found. Um, I took a whole bunch of
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pills. Um, and without going into to too
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many details, I was super lucky I was
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found. And what age? Um, 21. 5 years
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after the accident. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm
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guessing that was five years of
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suffering then. Yeah. And not just for
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me, it was for everyone around me.
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Everyone that loved me. Strangers, they
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probably thought I was awesome. Um but
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everyone that loved me, everyone that
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was close to me, suffering for them as
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well. And it wasn't until after that
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incident um of the suicide that I
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started to make changes and started
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become a better person. I'm I'm not
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great now. I I still try and fix myself
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on a daily basis, but it did help. Um,
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and it was a good catalyst for me to
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start getting better.
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That's a lot. Real early. Real early.
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Um, tell you what, we might might get
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back to that and and pick around that
00:11:39
stuff for a bit, but first of all, I
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want to go through some of your greatest
00:11:41
hits. Um, I normally leave them to the
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end, but Yeah.
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Yeah. I mean, because Yeah. some of the
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stuff you've done. It's like um Yeah,
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it's it's eyebrow racing. It's really
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cool. So um yeah, last year you did a
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couple of marathons. Um you did the the
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London Marathon and the New York
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Marathon. Um dressed in a squirrel suit.
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Yeah. Why? So that's the beautiful
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question. Why? Well, there's why the
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squirrel suit, why the marathons, and
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and why do them at all? Um the the first
00:12:10
wise is because I was turning 50 and I'm
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like, let's let's make this year good.
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you know, I'll I'll do the New York uh
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the London Marathon cuz then I can go
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over there and see family and and it'll
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be cool. Now, why the costume cuz I'm
00:12:24
going to take it back a step is uh that
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came about. I actually trained for um
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See, this is going to take it down a
00:12:31
dark rabbit hole, he says, smiling. Um I
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trained for three years for the the
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Parolympics in wheelchair racing. Um I
00:12:40
missed out by 2 of a second. That's how
00:12:42
long it takes that to happen. Um, and
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after training for that long, it took me
00:12:47
a couple of months to get over it as to,
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you know, why the the whole why, that's
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the question of of of anything. It's
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like why do you do it? To what end, to
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what goal, what are you trying to
00:12:57
achieve? And I realize that I actually
00:13:00
didn't want to be in the Parolympics.
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Everyone sees you doing something when
00:13:04
you're able-bodied and they're like,
00:13:05
"Oh, go you." When they see somebody in
00:13:07
a wheelchair doing something, they're,
00:13:08
"Oh, you must be training for the
00:13:09
Parolympics. You must be doing this."
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And it sort of I think that set in my
00:13:14
head that must be why I'm doing it. So I
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went for the parolympics. Anyway, I
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failed. But um I was doing this thing
00:13:21
called a sleep diet and uh and and I got
00:13:23
interviewed for round the bays and they
00:13:25
said, "Oh, you do round the bays." I
00:13:27
said, "Yeah, I'm going to do it in a
00:13:28
gorilla suit." And they were like,
00:13:29
"What?" I'm like, "I guess I am now
00:13:31
because I've said it." Uh and uh I did
00:13:34
and I came last. But it was the best
00:13:36
event I had had in years. And I
00:13:39
absolutely loved coming last. And the
00:13:41
level of an I made two children cry, but
00:13:43
um the level of anonymity at the end was
00:13:46
was fantastic because um someone
00:13:49
actually came up to me afterwards and
00:13:51
said, "Oh, did you see the guy in the
00:13:52
gorilla suit?" And I'm like, "Yeah, that
00:13:55
was cool, wasn't it?" You know, cuz he
00:13:57
didn't know it was me. And I absolutely
00:13:59
loved it. So I I took that on board and
00:14:02
was like, "Right, let's let's do
00:14:03
different costumes." So, I did round the
00:14:05
bays in a night suit, a wet suit, a
00:14:07
Batman suit, obviously the gorilla suit,
00:14:09
a panda suit, panda in a sombrero. Um,
00:14:13
and then a friend of mine that worked at
00:14:15
First Scene said, "Oh, we've got these
00:14:17
squirrels from this um I think it was a
00:14:20
a Cabri nut bar ad uh and they had like
00:14:22
50 of them. Um, you know, you want to
00:14:24
wear a squirrel costume?" I'm like,
00:14:25
"Yes." And I wore it and it was awesome
00:14:27
and it showed the face. That was a cool
00:14:29
thing. So, still some level of
00:14:31
anonymity, but um but it didn't scare
00:14:33
anyone and it was it was a massively hot
00:14:35
costume and I was like great. Uh and
00:14:38
then the following year they actually
00:14:39
gave it to me. So I was like great. So
00:14:42
awesome. You you perspired like we don't
00:14:44
want this hair on it back. Uh so so they
00:14:47
gave it to me and I was like great okay
00:14:49
well this is now my costume. Uh and so
00:14:52
that's why the London Marathon was was
00:14:55
so funny story if if you don't mind me I
00:14:57
back ped a little. So, I sign up to the
00:14:59
London Marathon. Um, but you have to
00:15:02
wait for approval. Now, anyone that
00:15:04
hasn't done this, but but I'm sure you
00:15:06
have, you have to go in for a ballot and
00:15:08
the ballot then allows you to then do
00:15:11
it. You don't just like, oh, register
00:15:12
online now. I'm doing it. I couldn't
00:15:15
wait that long. I needed to prep. I
00:15:17
needed to pay for things. So, I signed
00:15:19
up to a charity and it costs a lot more.
00:15:22
Um, but then they give you guaranteed
00:15:24
entry. And I'm like, right, do I tell
00:15:26
people about this girl suit? And I'm
00:15:28
like, "No, no." I talked to other people
00:15:30
and they were like, "Oh, yeah, you
00:15:31
should. You know, safety concerns." I'm
00:15:32
like, "No, cuz if I tell them, they can
00:15:34
say no." And then that's it. Always
00:15:37
easier to ask for forgiveness than
00:15:39
permission. Right. That's what I say. So
00:15:41
I I turned up the day before and this
00:15:43
woman like looked at the squirrel suit
00:15:46
and me and she was like, "Oh no. Oh no."
00:15:49
She had a straight face and she was just
00:15:50
like, "No." And I'm like, "What do you
00:15:52
mean no?" You know, playing dumb. and
00:15:54
she waves her hand and says, "All of
00:15:56
this is a no." And I'm like, "Well, we
00:15:59
shall see about that." And and I say,
00:16:02
"Oh, can we go somewhere and talk about
00:16:03
it and discuss it?" And yeah, a long
00:16:06
long story short is they allowed me to
00:16:08
do it,
00:16:09
but the the the wheelchair race isn't
00:16:13
wheelchair. It isn't race chair. It's
00:16:14
the elite wheelchair section. And you
00:16:18
don't see clowns doing an elite run. And
00:16:21
and that's what they couldn't allow. So
00:16:24
I was like, "Oh, this muppet is in here
00:16:26
in his squirrel suit." So they said,
00:16:27
"Well, you can do it with the elites if
00:16:30
you wear Lycra. You can do it in your
00:16:34
day chair in the squirrel suit and you
00:16:37
can do it with the other numpties or you
00:16:39
can do it with your race chair in the
00:16:41
squirrel suit, but you do it with the
00:16:43
runners." And I was like, "Well,
00:16:44
obviously the latter." Uh, and I did.
00:16:47
And it was really dangerous. It was
00:16:50
really scary. In what way? Well, you as
00:16:52
a runner, when you're running, you look
00:16:54
up here. You don't look down. And when
00:16:56
you're, you know, jibbing, jamming to
00:16:58
get your place, you don't look for a
00:16:59
little 10-in wheel on the ground cuz
00:17:01
that's I've got a long chair. It's like
00:17:03
a triangle, and there's a little wheel
00:17:04
at the front, big wheels at the back.
00:17:06
But I'm even lower than this when I'm in
00:17:07
a chair. And you're quite tall. So, when
00:17:10
you've got bunches of runners, it was it
00:17:13
was horrid. And I for the first like 10
00:17:15
minutes, I hated it. I hated the event.
00:17:18
and I hated everything about it and it
00:17:19
organizes and until again like I say
00:17:23
about getting me out of the way. I got
00:17:25
me out of the way and I was like I'm
00:17:26
dressed in a squirrel suit. I'm doing
00:17:28
the London marathon. Yeah. And then I
00:17:31
started doing and I didn't care about my
00:17:32
time and and so I had I had fun and it
00:17:35
was good. That's awesome. And then um
00:17:37
Yeah. So that was London's usually April
00:17:39
and then New York's like November. You
00:17:41
did both of these last year and you even
00:17:43
made the New York Post. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:44
Yeah. So cool. Oh, thank you. I was I
00:17:47
was super happy with that. I had three
00:17:49
goals for New York. One was um that the
00:17:52
squirrel was going to be seen. Um two
00:17:54
was that I'm going to have a great time
00:17:56
and three was that um I do under three
00:17:58
hours. So I got a coach and he was like
00:18:00
right you know we're going to hit this
00:18:01
and this and this and we did all these
00:18:02
things. I was in way better shape than
00:18:04
London. But because of my goals um I was
00:18:08
stopping and chatting to people. I was
00:18:09
like, you know, going going to the drink
00:18:11
stations and going this isn't vodka, you
00:18:15
know, you know, getting the the
00:18:17
squishies from the the SIS table and and
00:18:20
somebody was was filming me. I was like,
00:18:22
you know, just being an absolute ass
00:18:25
but enjoying it and I absolutely loved
00:18:27
it and it took me all the way back to
00:18:29
the first one I did around the bays in
00:18:31
the gorilla costume where I absolutely
00:18:33
enjoyed it. But um I mean a a marathon
00:18:37
is hard. It's 42 km. Why make it harder
00:18:40
by wearing a costume?
00:18:42
Yeah. Like you could still enjoy it in
00:18:44
in running gear or Lyra. Absolutely. So
00:18:47
it can enjoy lots of things
00:18:50
like uh well you got to take it off
00:18:53
anyway. Anyway, uh so uh it takes me
00:18:56
back to the the initial gorilla suit and
00:18:59
yeah, even talking about it, we're
00:19:00
laughing. You're laughing and you say
00:19:02
why? And and as soon as I tell somebody
00:19:04
I wore this costume, they're like they
00:19:06
laugh and then they ask why. And I'm
00:19:07
like, that's why because it makes you
00:19:10
laugh. It makes you smile. It's stupid,
00:19:12
but it's entertaining. And at the same
00:19:14
time, it highlights disability. I mean,
00:19:17
so does um Marcel Hog and Suzuki and
00:19:19
these other guys that come first and
00:19:21
when, you know, $100,000 when they come
00:19:23
first, whatever. Uh, you know, but
00:19:25
there's no way I'm doing a marathon in
00:19:26
an hour 20. It's just not happening. I
00:19:29
don't have the the passion. My my
00:19:32
playing to win is is enjoyment. M
00:19:36
they're playing to win is to come first
00:19:38
cuz everyone's win looks different.
00:19:40
Everyone's Everest is different and mine
00:19:43
is to to have fun, enjoy it. And when
00:19:46
people look at the chair, um they say,
00:19:48
"Yeah, well it's stupidly hot. Why don't
00:19:50
you do it in Lyra? Why don't you make it
00:19:52
easy on yourself?" And I'm like, "Well,
00:19:53
anyone can do that. What I do is dumb
00:19:56
and stupid and it's insane, but it's
00:19:58
also awesome and fun and enjoyable and
00:20:00
people laugh." Yeah. Yeah. But not I
00:20:04
mean not anyone can even even do it.
00:20:05
Like the amount of people that end up
00:20:06
doing a marathon is like 1% I guess. And
00:20:09
in terms in terms of the disability
00:20:10
community I don't know like maybe it's
00:20:12
still the same percentage like 1% but
00:20:15
you know the percentage of people that
00:20:16
would do it um in a wheelchair and a
00:20:19
costume even slimmer. Um but it's cool.
00:20:21
It feels like you're doing it for the
00:20:23
enjoyment of others. Yeah. Yeah. And now
00:20:26
now you want to do there's a whole
00:20:28
series called the um the Abbott world
00:20:29
marathon majors. So, um, uh, yeah,
00:20:33
London and New York are two of them. And
00:20:35
now there's actually five others. There
00:20:36
was six, but now there's five. Yeah.
00:20:37
Because now we got Sydney. Yeah. So,
00:20:38
there's Sydney, Tokyo, Boston, Chicago,
00:20:42
and Berlin. You want to do all of them?
00:20:44
Yeah. So, that's that's what happened. I
00:20:46
went to London um and the day before um
00:20:50
the race there's the expo and that's
00:20:52
that's you've got to go and register and
00:20:54
that sort of stuff. And I went there and
00:20:55
everyone was talking about stars and I'm
00:20:56
like, what? There's no famous people
00:20:59
here. What are you on about? like I
00:21:00
didn't get it. And then they tell me,
00:21:02
"Well, you do six marathons and you get
00:21:04
a seventh medal." Okay, I'm in. Sign me
00:21:07
up. What is this? You I'm in for stuff
00:21:10
like a brown paper bag. I'm like,
00:21:11
"Rubber band. I don't care what it is.
00:21:13
It's the win is the win. I'll take it."
00:21:15
And uh and yeah, so they said, "You you
00:21:18
do these six marathons around the
00:21:19
world." I I didn't actually calculate
00:21:21
the fact that's like $50,000 cuz it's
00:21:23
eight and a half grand basically for
00:21:25
each one. And uh and you get a seventh
00:21:27
medal for free. But the seventh meter
00:21:29
was pretty cool. Um, I've I've got one.
00:21:32
I'm a six-star finisher. It's massive.
00:21:33
It's massive. I I should have put it in
00:21:35
today. Um, it's a it's a massive massive
00:21:37
trinket, but it it is very special. But
00:21:39
you you reflect on how much it cost you.
00:21:42
It's like a $50,000. You'd never get
00:21:44
that on eBay, would you? No. No. No. No.
00:21:47
Realistically, like replacement cost is
00:21:49
probably like eight bucks. I don't know.
00:21:51
I should just get one made and be like,
00:21:52
"Look, I've done it." Oh. So, when are
00:21:54
you doing that? Over the next couple of
00:21:55
years. Yeah. So I worked out as as you
00:21:58
know then um that there's an easy way of
00:22:00
doing is two a year because you got one
00:22:02
at the beginning of the year, one at the
00:22:03
end of the year. So we got London in
00:22:06
April and then we did uh New York in
00:22:08
November. Then 2026 uh I got Tokyo in I
00:22:12
think it's late March. Uh and then
00:22:15
Chicago, I think it is in November or or
00:22:19
October. Um just before New York. Yeah.
00:22:22
And then the following year I'll do
00:22:24
Boston, I think it is, beginning of the
00:22:26
year, and then Berlin at the end of the
00:22:27
year. And then the following year, 2028.
00:22:30
I'm sounding super boring now because
00:22:31
it's all planned out. Uh 2028, I'll do
00:22:33
Sydney because then I can sign up for
00:22:35
seven and then do the seven. So then
00:22:37
I'll do seven marathons and have nine
00:22:38
medals. Yeah. Um Sydney will be
00:22:42
interesting. I've done that the last
00:22:43
couple of years and it's been so hot.
00:22:45
Like they start like 7:00 in the morning
00:22:46
or 6:00 in the morning, but by 8:00 it's
00:22:49
scorching. So I can't imagine what it's
00:22:50
like in a suit. Oh, I I'm not sure what
00:22:54
I wear cuz I had to adjust my costume
00:22:57
for New York. So, it's funny you talk
00:22:59
about Yeah. different costumes. Um that
00:23:02
Yeah. Okay. Let me again I backpedal and
00:23:06
and it's easier to explain. They sent me
00:23:08
an email after I'd fully paid for New
00:23:09
York with with Archales and they were
00:23:11
good bunch of people, don't get me
00:23:12
wrong. Uh and they said, "Oh, you can't
00:23:14
do it in the squirrel suit because of
00:23:16
this reason, this reason, this reason,
00:23:18
this reason." And I talked to my coach
00:23:20
about it and he was like, "Well, I could
00:23:23
just have my friend Roy meet you, you
00:23:25
know, like over the Verzano Bridge and
00:23:27
you could just put it on and continue."
00:23:28
And I'm like, "I don't know how that's
00:23:30
going to go." Um, but I took it as a
00:23:32
challenge to meet their criteria. So, so
00:23:37
I went to First Scene, the ones that
00:23:38
gave me the squirrel suit, and um, Joe
00:23:41
Pilington is absolutely a legend. She
00:23:44
actually like paid her staff to help me
00:23:46
adjust the squirrel suit. So now I've
00:23:48
got two squirrel suits. I've got a nice
00:23:50
slim fitting one um and the puffy big
00:23:52
one. Um so I've got one that just fits
00:23:55
on um like a race bike helmet and it
00:23:58
looks amazing. That was the one I wore
00:24:00
from New York and a very slim fitting
00:24:02
like furry chest. Um but they wouldn't
00:24:05
let me wear the tail, but everyone was
00:24:07
still yelling out go squirrels. So I'm
00:24:09
like, "Hey, it's all good. So long as I
00:24:11
look like a squirrel, that's perfect.
00:24:13
That's all I'm after." Yeah. Yeah. Um,
00:24:16
okay. So, that's some of the running
00:24:17
stuff. Um, the sky tower climb as well.
00:24:20
You've done that a couple of times.
00:24:21
Yeah. Um, so this is going up the
00:24:23
stairs. So, this is without your chair.
00:24:25
This is you just sort of dragging
00:24:26
yourself up. Crawling up the stairs.
00:24:28
Yeah. How many how many flights? Uh, 52
00:24:31
flights. Okay. Yeah. And And yeah, I I
00:24:35
don't like correcting people because I
00:24:36
love the story anyway. But I I did do it
00:24:38
five times. And the fifth time is when I
00:24:41
stopped. Not by well kind of by choice
00:24:44
but also because on the on the 34th
00:24:46
floor I broke my collarbone. It snapped
00:24:48
and um like this is me you know lifting
00:24:51
up. I I put my arms and then my bum has
00:24:53
touched every step. So I you know bum on
00:24:55
the step and then I pull my legs up.
00:24:57
Right. I was wondering how you did it.
00:24:58
So you just sort of went backwards.
00:24:59
Yeah. Yeah. It seemed to me to be the
00:25:01
logical easiest way of doing it. You end
00:25:03
up with a sore tailbone again. Lucky
00:25:05
I've got
00:25:06
this strap-on
00:25:08
cushion. It's like a nappy. Um, but but
00:25:11
it is it's it's super good cushion. Uh,
00:25:14
and and that that basically leaving any
00:25:16
pressure areas and and I'm not like
00:25:19
jumping down. I'm just putting myself up
00:25:21
and down and keeping everything routine.
00:25:23
And you know what it's like with
00:25:24
running, you have a process and you just
00:25:26
keep that process and no matter what
00:25:27
happens, you follow in line. You just
00:25:29
keep doing it. So I did that and on the
00:25:31
34th floor, this is the only time I
00:25:33
trained as well. So I was dawned dawned
00:25:36
um uh so I was wearing the fire gear um
00:25:39
helmet jacket pants and a tank and it
00:25:41
was the only year that I trained for the
00:25:43
event. So I'd put on about another 30 kg
00:25:46
again made it harder for myself. Oh,
00:25:47
firefighter gear. Yeah, you're right.
00:25:49
Yeah, they do the challenge. They do the
00:25:51
challenge as well. But I couldn't do it
00:25:52
dawned and started because that's with
00:25:54
the oxygen and it just wouldn't have
00:25:55
lasted. Um the fastest runners do it in
00:25:58
like 9 minutes and I I was like, you
00:26:00
know, 47 minutes I think is my fastest
00:26:02
time. Um, so yeah, I'm I'm I'm crawling
00:26:05
up and I get to 34th floor and um and it
00:26:08
feels a snap and I'm like, "Oh, that's
00:26:11
that's not good." So, um, and everyone's
00:26:13
like, "Why didn't you pull out? Why did
00:26:14
you finish?" And I'm like, "Well, if you
00:26:16
don't finish, you don't get the
00:26:17
t-shirt." And it's all about the t-shirt
00:26:19
in the meadow, isn't it? That's that's
00:26:20
what it's about. So, yeah, I finished
00:26:24
and and it totally popped out. And then
00:26:25
I was on bed rest for 3 months. How did
00:26:27
it snap? Uh, it just um just wear and
00:26:30
tear or Yeah, just just pressure. It was
00:26:33
just it just gave up. Normally the
00:26:35
collarbone is something that snaps when
00:26:37
you fall. It's like your shock absorber.
00:26:39
But um yeah, this particular time um it
00:26:42
was just through training I guess and
00:26:44
just gave up and said nah and snap. Um
00:26:47
because I'm in a chair I can't um I
00:26:50
can't get dressed. Uh I can't eat. Uh I
00:26:53
can't transfer. I can't drive. So
00:26:55
breaking a collarbone is is tamount to
00:26:57
breaking my back again. So go on the bed
00:26:59
rest. It's terrible.
00:27:01
Um, that's pretty savage. It's pretty
00:27:03
badass. E, like there's there's a lot of
00:27:06
able-bodied people around that would
00:27:07
would struggle to do you walk up the sky
00:27:10
to Tower even with unlimited time. And
00:27:11
there'd be a lot of Yeah. a lot more
00:27:13
people still that would would be able to
00:27:14
do it, but they'd need to pause numerous
00:27:15
times on the way up to catch their
00:27:17
breath. So, to be able to, you to not be
00:27:19
able-bodied and be able to do that, it's
00:27:22
it's [ __ ] it's incredible. I managed
00:27:25
to talk one other person into doing it
00:27:27
and uh and because I'm going to say her
00:27:29
name, Sarah Belgrave. She's amazing. Um
00:27:32
because she was the only other
00:27:33
paraplegic to do it. She's the only
00:27:36
female to do it and I'm the only male to
00:27:37
do it. And I dare say there's there's no
00:27:39
other disabled person who has no use of
00:27:42
their legs that wants to crawl up the
00:27:44
sky because why why would you do that?
00:27:46
It's because it's here. Exactly, Siri
00:27:48
Edund Hillary. Because it's here. Yeah.
00:27:50
Yeah.
00:27:51
What about the triceps? Is it good for
00:27:52
the triceps? I don't know. Everything
00:27:55
hurt after. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um and
00:27:58
some of the other stuff you've you've
00:27:59
done, we'll just barrel through these.
00:28:00
Um skydiving, bungee jumping, rock
00:28:03
climbing, demolition derbies, skiing,
00:28:05
target shooting, ax throwing, car
00:28:07
racing. You love love racing your minis.
00:28:10
I mean, all these things are things that
00:28:12
most most people won't do because
00:28:14
they're not interested or because
00:28:15
they're not into extreme sports or
00:28:17
whatever. Um but for you to do them, I'm
00:28:19
guessing there's an extra layer layer of
00:28:21
um red tape and bees to get through. Oh
00:28:24
yeah. Yeah. There really is for most of
00:28:26
those things
00:28:28
the um the red tape is probably the
00:28:31
second hardest. And again the the first
00:28:34
hardest and I'll take it back is getting
00:28:35
me out of the way. As soon as I took me
00:28:37
out of the way, the pitcher years ago,
00:28:41
um I started to put up my hand and say
00:28:42
yes to things. I said yes to things
00:28:44
before someone had even finished. Oh
00:28:45
Lee, do you want it? Yes. Like going
00:28:47
around Lake Tapo. Somebody said, "Oh, do
00:28:50
you want to go?" Yes. Okay. Okay. And
00:28:51
then they they bailed out and somebody
00:28:53
else bailed out and then now it wasn't a
00:28:54
team of four, it was a team of one. So I
00:28:56
became the first solo wheelchair racer
00:28:58
to push around like TA because I was
00:28:59
committed in my head. God, I said let's
00:29:01
do it. That's such a long way. It's like
00:29:03
160 170ks. Some very very steep hills
00:29:06
after after 2 hours of no flat. Um then
00:29:09
I come across the sign. It says hard to
00:29:11
be hill and I'm like what the hell was
00:29:13
that? You know, I've just done hills.
00:29:16
So, but yeah, the the BS as you say with
00:29:18
things like the um the Motorsport New
00:29:22
Zealand race license, and no offense to
00:29:23
them, they're concerned for safety, and
00:29:26
they've got to be concerned with safety.
00:29:27
They get fines. Um somebody will
00:29:30
ultimately be responsible at the end of
00:29:32
the day. So, they've got to look at how
00:29:35
do we alleviate any possible issues in
00:29:37
the future. So, I had to I had to get in
00:29:40
my Mini, rip on the handbrake when the
00:29:42
guy said stop and then take take my
00:29:44
belts off and jump out of the car. And
00:29:46
he's he's got to film it. Now, this this
00:29:49
person is doing it for for serious
00:29:52
reasons. And here's me again. I I'm my
00:29:55
own worst enemy at times cuz I I did
00:29:57
this and I got I jumped out of the car
00:29:59
and I had to do it within like 15
00:30:01
seconds or 30 seconds or so. And I'm
00:30:03
rolling around on the ground going, "Ah,
00:30:04
the invisible flame." the trying to put
00:30:06
myself out like Talligator Knights, you
00:30:08
know, the Will Frell scene, you know, I
00:30:10
didn't strip naked with my helmet on,
00:30:12
but it was super funny and and he's just
00:30:13
filming it like like blandac like it's
00:30:16
in nothing like it happens every day.
00:30:20
Amazing. And the and the bungee jump,
00:30:22
how does that work? Is that around the
00:30:23
waist or just around the ankles or We we
00:30:26
did it the umbilical in front to begin
00:30:29
with. I've done it three times. um
00:30:32
didn't want to do around the ankle just
00:30:34
for fear
00:30:35
of what could it do to my spine um from
00:30:39
them and from me. And then um the other
00:30:42
two I did from um behind um and the
00:30:46
weirdest horriblest one I did was
00:30:48
actually where it was in front of me and
00:30:51
I said I'm going to wheelie off
00:30:52
backwards. So do it. It's falling. You
00:30:56
know how you do a trust fall and people
00:30:58
got to catch you? Imagine doing a
00:31:00
trustful, but you just keep going. You
00:31:02
know, it's the horriblest feeling. And
00:31:05
I'm hanging on to this and as I
00:31:06
realized, I'm like, I could literally
00:31:08
hang on to nothing. Holding on to this
00:31:09
rope as with the bungee is not going to
00:31:12
save me. It's what's coming with me.
00:31:14
Yeah. And it's Oh, it was horrible.
00:31:16
Yeah. But but good fun. And and outside
00:31:19
of that, there's heaps of other stuff
00:31:20
you you do. You do volunteering stuff.
00:31:21
You've done lots of um disability
00:31:23
advocacy work. Oh, yeah. Um Yeah. That's
00:31:26
like one of your passions, eh? Yeah. I
00:31:28
it's a a big thing for me, parking. Uh I
00:31:32
know there's other people in the world
00:31:33
who advocate things for like um flights,
00:31:36
wheelchairs on flights. Um and Sophie
00:31:38
Morgan does a fantastic job. There's
00:31:40
other people that have other areas of
00:31:42
expertise where they're advocating for
00:31:44
disability rights and and making it
00:31:46
normal. And the more they do that, the
00:31:48
more normal it is. Um for me, I find
00:31:52
parking a huge thing. Um because as soon
00:31:56
as you're in a chair and you want to get
00:31:57
places, you've got to be able to get
00:31:59
there and get out. Um and through doing
00:32:03
this, I actually found interestingly
00:32:06
enough, not a single accessible car park
00:32:09
in Oakland area, the whole of Oakland,
00:32:11
so super city of Oakland on public roads
00:32:15
is up to
00:32:17
code. Reason being there is no code for
00:32:20
public roads. The building code of
00:32:23
compliance,
00:32:24
NSS4121, is a building code of
00:32:27
compliance, but only relates to car
00:32:29
parks in or around a building, not
00:32:32
public roads. So, the building code
00:32:35
doesn't doesn't apply. And also the fact
00:32:38
that if they make them wide enough and
00:32:40
long enough for accessibility, it
00:32:42
actually falls outside of the remitt for
00:32:44
them to, you know, issue infringement
00:32:48
notices or tow. So I'm like, why? So I'm
00:32:52
still following that up. It's it's years
00:32:54
of process and it does take a lot of
00:32:56
time, but it's not every day all the
00:32:59
time. It's it's on my mind when I drive
00:33:00
around looking at car parks, but it's um
00:33:04
it's just something that I do in the
00:33:06
background just passion. Does it um does
00:33:09
it frustrate you, [ __ ] you off? Like is
00:33:11
it is it a is it a compounding effect?
00:33:13
Like you know, you just get, you know,
00:33:15
more and more furious every time you
00:33:17
come across it. When I was younger, uh,
00:33:20
and and very immature, I I would slash
00:33:23
tires with a pin knife and I would spray
00:33:26
brake fluid on the cars and I would, uh,
00:33:29
smash windows and No, I wasn't I wasn't
00:33:32
agitated or angry at all. Um, but that
00:33:35
was that was young me. That was young
00:33:37
me. So, don't park an accessible car
00:33:39
park. Stabby stab. Um, no. Uh, but I
00:33:44
I've explained it cuz I I've been on a
00:33:46
breakfast show and they they said, you
00:33:48
know, should I confront people? And I
00:33:49
said, no, never confront somebody. I've
00:33:52
been threatened. I've been grabbed
00:33:53
around the throat. You know, who are
00:33:54
you? The [ __ ] police I'll smash you.
00:33:56
And you at the end of the day, you're
00:33:58
trying to kill out an ant colony one ant
00:34:01
at a time, and you just can't do it.
00:34:04
It's it's the idiom of of folly. You
00:34:08
just can't do it. You've got to go for
00:34:10
the root of the nest. And the only way
00:34:12
to do that is the jugular, which is your
00:34:14
local councils, your MPs, um, Oakland
00:34:17
Transport, whoever it is. And if it
00:34:20
annoys you enough, do something about
00:34:22
it. Be the change you want to see. Take
00:34:24
action. Do something rather than just
00:34:26
cry at home or moan about it to people.
00:34:29
That doesn't change the world. That
00:34:31
doesn't do anything at all. And so
00:34:33
that's what I do. Yeah. But it takes so
00:34:35
much energy to stay with it. That it
00:34:37
does. And and and that's why I've
00:34:40
channeled the energy from slashing tires
00:34:43
to to to following up emails um from
00:34:46
from spraying brake fluid on cars um to
00:34:50
writing down diary notes um and taking
00:34:52
photos. And that's all it is is
00:34:54
channeling the energy into a different
00:34:56
pathway. Then instead of being angry, I
00:34:59
I let it go. I let it go, but I take a
00:35:02
photo. And then I have I I literally
00:35:04
have about 4,000 photos of of couers and
00:35:08
I'm not bagging careers because they
00:35:10
have a bloody hard job. But then
00:35:12
couriers don't follow up and say there's
00:35:13
no courier parking or there's no loading
00:35:15
zone. They just park in the accessible
00:35:17
car park. And I get it because I'd
00:35:18
probably do it too. So what are they
00:35:21
doing to change? Nothing. So then I need
00:35:24
to follow up and make the change. And
00:35:25
then taxis do it. And I got asked on the
00:35:28
breakfast show. It's like who's more
00:35:29
responsible? Is it an age? Is it a sex?
00:35:32
Is it a race? I said, "No, there's
00:35:33
there's three people that do it. There's
00:35:35
adolescent, ignorant, and arrogant.
00:35:38
That's it." And and and that is across
00:35:41
the board. And and there is no change.
00:35:43
So, I can't go to the individuals. I
00:35:46
have to go upline. I have to go to
00:35:49
somebody bigger and say, "Well, you need
00:35:50
to be able to find people on private car
00:35:53
parks. You need a a better way of
00:35:56
finding uh infringement noticing people,
00:35:59
breach noticing on public roads. There's
00:36:01
got to be a better way of doing it. So,
00:36:03
it's just about me following up, me
00:36:05
emailing, me making official complaints
00:36:08
a lot and uh and just continuing.
00:36:13
That's really good. I love that thing.
00:36:15
Adolescent, ignorant, arrogant. Just
00:36:18
trying to think what camp I'm definitely
00:36:19
not adolescent. What about Can you What
00:36:23
about if you if you don't think you're
00:36:24
ignorant or arrogant, but it's just
00:36:25
really really raining and you're only
00:36:27
going in for two minutes. I think that
00:36:29
falls into the arrogant camp, you know,
00:36:31
just just got because you're definitely
00:36:32
not adolescent. Not not that I'm judging
00:36:35
because we're the same age, you know.
00:36:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's got a
00:36:40
reason and there has been a couple of
00:36:42
times where um you know, you make eye
00:36:44
contact or you see some and and they
00:36:46
move out, you know, and they park out.
00:36:48
In fact, years ago, I remember saying it
00:36:50
to to one guy um in the driver's seat
00:36:53
and he was like, "Oh, whatever." anyway
00:36:55
and went inside the shop and his mate in
00:36:57
the passenger seat said, "Hey, dude.
00:36:58
Look, I'm so sorry. Look, I can't drive
00:37:01
his car, but I'm really glad you said
00:37:03
something and I'll I'll have it at him
00:37:04
when he comes back." And I was like,
00:37:06
"That's cool." You that's creating
00:37:08
social change. That's him helping his
00:37:10
friend change cuz most of the time, and
00:37:13
this is why I say don't go up to
00:37:15
individuals, um you've cornered someone,
00:37:18
they've done wrong, and you've you've
00:37:20
got like playing hide-and-seek. You've
00:37:21
caught them and they're like, "No, it
00:37:23
wasn't me. what's your problem? And you
00:37:25
know, they know they've been caught out.
00:37:27
So, it's like, look, just Yeah. Don't do
00:37:29
it. Yeah. Yeah. I I think Yeah. That
00:37:32
applies um Yeah. You're talking about in
00:37:34
real life um interactions, but it's the
00:37:36
same as social media. Like, no one wants
00:37:37
to be like berated or shouted at. The
00:37:39
best thing you can do is try and educate
00:37:40
people. E Yeah. Rather, you re reason
00:37:42
with them a little bit. But even on
00:37:44
social media, education, how does it how
00:37:46
does that go? Happy face, angry face. Um
00:37:50
okay, let's go let's go back in time. Um
00:37:53
Okay. So you're born in England. Yeah.
00:37:56
What? Yeah. And you moved to New Zealand
00:37:57
when you were when you're 10 years old.
00:37:59
Yeah. What are your memories of the
00:38:00
first 10 years? Uh schooling schooling
00:38:03
was very different. It was uh and this
00:38:06
is going back, you know, a few years ago
00:38:09
now. It' be um uh in the 70s late '7s.
00:38:14
Yeah. I was I was born in the 70s. So we
00:38:17
came over here 86 85 86. And back then,
00:38:21
New Zealand was around about a 2year um
00:38:24
gap lag. Um so the learning and the
00:38:28
schooling that I had in England was very
00:38:30
different to the schooling and the
00:38:32
learning here. So I came over here and I
00:38:33
was not going to say I was like a god.
00:38:36
Um but I knew everything and so I was
00:38:39
very lazy. But then that's been me all
00:38:42
the way through school and still now.
00:38:43
It's like oh yeah, I can do that or
00:38:45
whatever. Um and and continue on. If I
00:38:47
don't need to learn it or I don't need
00:38:49
to do it, I I don't. I'm I'm at school
00:38:51
to eat lunch. That's it. And and then
00:38:53
continue. What about um teasing or
00:38:55
bullying or anything like that? Cuz you
00:38:56
must have you must have stood out like a
00:38:58
sore thumb like being a a kid with an
00:38:59
English accent. Absolutely. But then But
00:39:02
did you have the charm and the charisma
00:39:03
that you've got now to sort of override
00:39:05
that? Yeah. Yeah. I I made some good
00:39:08
friends. Some um actually a friend over
00:39:10
from Australia at the moment. He's
00:39:11
actually from primary school. Uh, and we
00:39:14
made friends at primary school and we
00:39:15
just continued on.
00:39:18
And teasing is I want to say a natural
00:39:21
form like the child's natural
00:39:23
chant. It's no one teaches them that.
00:39:26
It's just innate. Um, and after studying
00:39:29
at teachers chain in college, you you
00:39:31
learn bullying is normal, but it's the
00:39:34
level of bullying. And nowadays with
00:39:37
social media and stuff and and phones
00:39:39
and things, it's 100% all the time full
00:39:42
on. And that's too much bullying for
00:39:44
anyone to take. And I I I hate and
00:39:46
despise that. And hate is a big word.
00:39:48
It's like the C word, isn't it? Um but
00:39:51
yeah, back in the day you'd get bullied,
00:39:53
but it wouldn't be all day every day. It
00:39:55
wouldn't be from the moment you turned
00:39:57
up at school or left school. And it
00:39:59
definitely wasn't after school unless
00:40:00
you saw those bullies. Yeah. You'd get a
00:40:03
reprieve. Your home was sort of a safe
00:40:04
haven. Yeah. or the or the bully was in
00:40:06
another class. Uh you know, and you only
00:40:08
saw them at lunchtime or or playtime. Um
00:40:10
but yeah, I got teased. It was um what's
00:40:12
the surname worn? So it was you worn out
00:40:15
and you worn out pants cuz we had cut
00:40:16
off jeans. Um you know, I can't remember
00:40:20
stuff. I know I got teased. I know I got
00:40:22
teased. I think I think most people do.
00:40:25
Most people do in primary school. Um
00:40:28
Okay. Yes. I've heard you describe
00:40:30
yourself as a a happy kid with a big
00:40:32
smile.
00:40:34
That's I feel like I feel like that's
00:40:35
the um that's the adult Lee Warn that I
00:40:38
know as well. A thank you. Would that be
00:40:40
fair to say? Yeah. I still don't know
00:40:42
what to do with my hands. Um but yeah.
00:40:44
Yeah. I keep I keep them up here so
00:40:46
people can see. Look, I'm not I'm not
00:40:47
hiding cards and I'm not playing with
00:40:49
myself. Um yeah, it it is it is. But
00:40:52
it's also a facade. It's an easy facade
00:40:55
to have. And that's what I had in those
00:40:57
first five years is is the happy league
00:41:00
because you can't see underneath. And
00:41:02
unless you ask, when you ask, hey, how
00:41:04
you doing? Everyone says, oh, I'm good.
00:41:06
And that one person that you ask, hey,
00:41:08
how you doing? They go, well, actually,
00:41:09
yeah, I've got a sore shoulder and you
00:41:11
know, I got bowel problem and and this
00:41:12
happened yesterday and my dad died and
00:41:14
you know, my dog got run over on the
00:41:16
way. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I
00:41:18
was just saying hello. You know, like I
00:41:20
just, you know, I didn't actually ask
00:41:22
anything. But that's cuz we don't
00:41:24
actually ask. We don't actually ask
00:41:26
someone how they doing and we don't mean
00:41:29
it. We just want a brief, you're good.
00:41:32
Oh, good. And and then we continue on.
00:41:34
And that's that's my happy face, right?
00:41:37
And that's most people's happy face.
00:41:39
It's like a mask for the outside world.
00:41:40
Yeah. And uh I I've got to remember to
00:41:43
take it off. Mhm. And that's what I do
00:41:46
now as as a as an adult and as you know,
00:41:49
37 years in a chair. Got to learn to be
00:41:52
able to take it off. You can't wear it
00:41:53
all the time. You can't be And it's not
00:41:55
fake. It's being nice.
00:41:57
Um, it's relatability and I can't
00:42:01
pretend to be that person all the time.
00:42:03
No one is that person all the time. You,
00:42:05
you know, it's like you're switched on,
00:42:07
you're here, you're now, and when you go
00:42:08
home, you don't want to be switched on
00:42:10
here and now. You You want to relax. You
00:42:11
have your gin and your cigar or whatever
00:42:13
it is, your Havana, and put your feet up
00:42:16
and you do nothing. And you're watching
00:42:17
Netflix because that's how some people
00:42:19
chill out. And I I I take it off and
00:42:22
I'll talk to my friends and be honest
00:42:24
with them. Yeah. When did when did you
00:42:27
when when did you start working on that?
00:42:28
Because I think it's it's it's a work
00:42:30
on, isn't it? That vulnerability piece.
00:42:32
Yeah. Abs. Vulnerability. That's the
00:42:34
word. Um and and it is an everyday
00:42:37
thing. I I take it off when I'm home.
00:42:40
You know, I tell my cats everything and
00:42:41
they're such good listeners. Uh they're
00:42:43
not really. They don't care. Feed me.
00:42:45
I'm gone. Well, you told me at the start
00:42:46
of the podcast, one of them has run
00:42:48
away. I shared a lot with Penny
00:42:50
yesterday. So, yeah. um it started after
00:42:55
those 5 years. So when I talk about the
00:42:57
the the downhill spiral and um being
00:43:00
negative with other people and and the
00:43:02
abuse that a lot of people around me
00:43:04
took, it was from you. From me and and
00:43:08
it was my fault and only had me to
00:43:09
blame. And then of course you were just
00:43:11
frustrated though, right? Absolutely.
00:43:13
But when you take that off and you look
00:43:15
at yourself and then then I'm kicking
00:43:17
myself and I'm punching myself because
00:43:19
I'm an idiot and I've abused this
00:43:20
person. Instead of just going, "Oh,
00:43:22
well, I did wrong. I I'll ring him up
00:43:24
and say sorry, or I'll say sorry next
00:43:25
time." It's like, "No, I'm going to beat
00:43:26
myself." I was literally my own worst
00:43:28
enemy. I got in my way every step. I was
00:43:31
tripping myself up. I was punching
00:43:32
myself. I poked myself in the eye. Did
00:43:34
everything wrong that I could. And it
00:43:36
was only after I started to make some
00:43:39
changes. And it was after the suicide
00:43:41
that I came back from that that I
00:43:43
realized I've got to make changes. And
00:43:45
again, I'm slow learner. So, it wasn't a
00:43:47
a sudden change. It was it it took
00:43:49
several years to actually start getting
00:43:51
better and one of the instrumental
00:43:54
things and people do say this sport was
00:43:57
was huge and it wasn't about going to
00:43:59
the parolympics but being involved in
00:44:02
sport and training meant that I couldn't
00:44:04
hang out with the same people all the
00:44:06
time. I could still see them
00:44:07
occasionally but I missed out on some
00:44:09
parties. I missed out on some birthdays.
00:44:11
I missed out on some seriously special
00:44:13
events. But looking back on it, the good
00:44:15
friends are still there because they
00:44:17
understood. And stopping partying all
00:44:20
the time meant that I stopped drinking
00:44:22
and stopped smoking, stopped doing
00:44:24
drugs, and that I had a new focus. And
00:44:26
the new focus was, funnily enough, being
00:44:28
fit. At 37 years in a chair, 50 years
00:44:31
old, I'm pretty healthy considering got
00:44:34
some shoulder niggles and stuff, but
00:44:35
realistically, I'm I'm pretty healthy.
00:44:39
Yeah. Yeah. And to be fair, like some of
00:44:41
those things we talked about before,
00:44:42
like the runs, um, you know, the
00:44:44
skydiving, bungee jump, you
00:44:46
know, if if you go to parties every
00:44:48
weekend, they tend some of them are
00:44:50
special events, but generally they sort
00:44:52
of roll into one. Um, but these these
00:44:54
these big sort of clinical events in
00:44:55
your life, they sort of stand out.
00:44:57
Otherwise, all the years sort of roll
00:44:58
into one. Um, okay. October 31st, 1989.
00:45:04
Oh, why would you bring up that date?
00:45:07
So, it was an accident involving a 50 cc
00:45:10
scooter, like a nifty50 they were called
00:45:11
back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. And it was
00:45:13
actually the nifty50 as well. So, so for
00:45:16
those that don't understand that
00:45:17
anything under a 50 cc um range, you
00:45:21
don't need a motorbike license. It's
00:45:22
it's a car license covered by a car
00:45:24
license. Um and some friends and I,
00:45:29
we acquired, liberated, borrowed
00:45:32
long-term loan without asking uh a
00:45:35
motorbike. Um, but these these were the
00:45:37
friends I was hanging out with, the idle
00:45:39
hands of the devil play things, and we
00:45:40
were smart enough to be idiots. Uh, and
00:45:44
good people, but still we got into
00:45:47
trouble. Um, so we stole this
00:45:50
motorbike. We couldn't get it going. It
00:45:53
took a couple of days and eventually we
00:45:54
got it going and, you know, we pulled a
00:45:56
cord like a um a lawn mower and rode it
00:45:59
up the streets. And of course, I didn't
00:46:01
have a car license. I was 16 years old
00:46:04
and I I didn't have the the nouse, the
00:46:08
street smarts. I should never have been
00:46:10
on a bike. In fact, the previous time
00:46:12
I'd been on a motorbike was twice. I had
00:46:15
only been on a motorbike twice
00:46:16
previously. Sorry. Uh once was when I
00:46:20
was uh seven in England at this place
00:46:22
called St. O. And you you ride around
00:46:25
these tiny little mini motorbikes. I got
00:46:27
to the first corner, hit the tires, fell
00:46:29
off, my foot got caught in the chain,
00:46:31
hit the cog, bike got shut down, I went
00:46:33
to hospital and got six stitches in my
00:46:35
foot. Like that gives you an idea of how
00:46:37
bad I am on a motorbike. And the next
00:46:39
time it was doubling with a friend,
00:46:41
Kevin Goss. Um, and so I wasn't riding.
00:46:44
So really all I had to do is hang on to
00:46:46
him and lean when he leaned. That was
00:46:47
it. So this was the third time on a bike
00:46:49
and yeah, idiot. So I got probably I
00:46:53
don't know 200 meters up the road. Um, I
00:46:56
hit a curb. I remember thinking, "Oh no,
00:46:58
I'm going to hit the curb." And I did.
00:47:00
Of course, I tensed up like a twig.
00:47:02
Little wheels hit the curb, went
00:47:04
sideways. I went the other way, landed
00:47:06
on a fence because I was all tensed up.
00:47:09
Um, it it it smashed three of my ribs.
00:47:12
Um, two of the ribs went in my left
00:47:14
lung, which then started filling with
00:47:16
blood. The shock wave smashed T12
00:47:19
vertebrae. And here I am laying on a
00:47:21
fence. One one lung's filled with blood,
00:47:24
the other one is probably getting a
00:47:26
quarter air um because I'm leaning on a
00:47:28
fence and I'm I'm
00:47:32
unconscious. I was super
00:47:34
lucky. Someone passing heard this
00:47:37
kufflele cuz it wasn't really a an
00:47:39
accident and pulled me off the fence and
00:47:43
laid me on the ground. And in doing
00:47:46
that, um, that movement would have been
00:47:50
what bits of bone and and the T12 that
00:47:52
was now smashed would have damaged the
00:47:54
spinal cord and lay me on the ground.
00:47:57
But it saved my life. If he hadn't have
00:48:00
pulled me off, I would have drowned in
00:48:01
my own blood and and and suffocated. If
00:48:04
the fence hadn't have been there, I
00:48:05
would have fallen down a 30ft drop and
00:48:07
no one would have found me. Even my
00:48:08
friends wouldn't have found me when they
00:48:09
came looking for me because you couldn't
00:48:12
see down there. There was bushes and
00:48:13
things. This is out and lang home in
00:48:15
Bha.
00:48:17
Um yeah, it was it was pretty horrific.
00:48:21
I remember laying in and in and out of
00:48:24
consciousness. I remember being in the
00:48:26
ambulance and saying to them, "Oh, I've
00:48:29
never been in ambulance before. Can you
00:48:30
turn the sirens on?" And they're like,
00:48:32
"No, no, we can't turn the sirens on."
00:48:34
Again, I asked the dumbest things. Uh
00:48:37
and they You got to seize the
00:48:38
opportunity. I Yeah. Yeah. when in Rome,
00:48:41
you know, go to the spearium in the in
00:48:43
the sexology place. Um, so so I asked
00:48:46
them to turn the sirens on. They said,
00:48:47
"No, we we can't. You've damaged the
00:48:49
spine and we don't know how bad it is
00:48:51
and if we put the sirens on, we drive
00:48:52
fast and we we can't do that." And it
00:48:56
didn't register with me. I'm 60 years
00:48:58
old. I haven't got a clue what's going
00:49:00
on. But you had no feeling or anything.
00:49:02
No. But you didn't you didn't
00:49:03
immediately like panic and assume the
00:49:04
war. Not at all. But it just didn't
00:49:07
register. You know, when I've said
00:49:09
several times, I'm a slow learner. They
00:49:11
would have had to have said it like
00:49:12
really and really in detail and given me
00:49:14
pictures and boards and diagrams and
00:49:16
drawn on a whiteboard. I I'm Yeah. Some
00:49:19
things I get and other things I don't.
00:49:21
And if I've got no um connection to it,
00:49:24
it just doesn't make sense. Suppose when
00:49:26
you're 16, even if you've got no feeling
00:49:28
from the neck down or the shoulders down
00:49:30
or the nipples down, wherever it was,
00:49:31
you just assume everything's going to be
00:49:33
okay. Yeah. Someone's going to fix me.
00:49:35
Yeah. arm in a cast, it the heels up.
00:49:37
You were good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,
00:49:40
went into hospital. Um I remember having
00:49:42
X-rays, holding my breath, somebody
00:49:44
poking me in the side, and I I couldn't
00:49:47
work out why. Um painkillers, they don't
00:49:49
kill the pain. They're just pain. I
00:49:51
don't cares. Turns out what it was was
00:49:53
somebody was actually knifing me in the
00:49:55
side and then pushing a tube in there to
00:49:57
allow the blood to come out of um my
00:50:00
lung so that then the lung could heal
00:50:02
itself. Um yeah. And then there um wires
00:50:06
and dodes and things all over me and and
00:50:08
mom on one side, dad on the other, and a
00:50:10
doctor at the end of the bed. And he
00:50:11
explains to me what's happened and says,
00:50:13
"You're never going to walk again." So
00:50:15
this is like hours after the accident.
00:50:17
This is the next day or this is this is
00:50:18
the next day. We've had a few operations
00:50:21
and it still didn't resonate with me. It
00:50:24
it didn't make any sense. Understand the
00:50:26
words, but they there's no connection to
00:50:28
the words. There's no connection to to a
00:50:31
visualization of what it meant. you
00:50:33
know, the rest of your life is going to
00:50:35
be in a wheelchair. Do you understand?
00:50:36
You're not going to be able to go to the
00:50:37
beach. Stairs are going to be a problem.
00:50:39
And all these sorts of issues just
00:50:41
didn't register. And like you say, maybe
00:50:44
on a subconscious level, I was thinking,
00:50:46
okay, for a while, you know, and then
00:50:48
I'll be all right. you know, then you go
00:50:49
to the spine unit, you learn how to take
00:50:51
care of yourself, and you learn how to
00:50:53
get around in a chair, and and it takes
00:50:55
a long time, and then you go home, and
00:50:57
then you try and continue on with life,
00:50:58
and there's there's something gnoring
00:51:01
away at your soul, at your spirit, and
00:51:03
the subconscious level. And that was
00:51:06
where I was for 5
00:51:09
years. How traumatic was that that day
00:51:11
or that period for your parents? Oh, I
00:51:15
put on a brave face for you or were they
00:51:16
just like inconsolable?
00:51:18
My my mom deals with things very well.
00:51:21
She would have cried by herself with no
00:51:24
one around or she would have cried with
00:51:26
good friends. She never would have shown
00:51:28
any emotion in front of me. Dad was
00:51:30
angry and he blamed
00:51:34
he tried to blame somebody. He was
00:51:36
asking all these questions to try and
00:51:37
figure out who was to blame, who got the
00:51:39
bike, who was driving the car, who took
00:51:41
me there, so that he could blame
00:51:43
somebody. And he he he did actually ask
00:51:44
quite a few of my friends about it. Um,
00:51:47
and it turned out it was me. You know,
00:51:50
the only person to blame was me and and
00:51:53
he then had to process that because he
00:51:55
couldn't get angry at me because I'm his
00:51:57
son.
00:51:59
I suppose it's natural like in things
00:52:01
like this. You you want a scapegoat,
00:52:02
right? Yeah.
00:52:04
How was your um mental health over this
00:52:06
time? Horrendous. Like like I say, I was
00:52:10
my own worst enemy. Uh beating myself up
00:52:12
all the time because I did wrong things.
00:52:14
How one time I remember I was drunk. It
00:52:17
was about 11 o'clock in the morning
00:52:18
because that was my life. Um I was
00:52:21
wearing these leather pants and the zip
00:52:23
didn't work and I wasn't wearing
00:52:26
underwear because the the more pressure
00:52:28
sors the more seams that you have on
00:52:31
your on your pants and things, the more
00:52:33
likely you are to get a pressure sore.
00:52:34
And a pressure saw turns into a bruise
00:52:36
which then eats away at the tissue and
00:52:39
then you get septia and you die. Um, but
00:52:41
if you get a pressure sore, you then
00:52:42
have to lay on your front and it can
00:52:44
cause weeks, months, if not an operation
00:52:47
and then years in hospital laying on
00:52:49
your front. And I didn't want any of
00:52:50
that. So, I was trying to alleviate
00:52:51
that. So, I I've got to lay some
00:52:53
groundwork here cuz otherwise it sounds
00:52:54
super bad, but it was. So, I'm wearing
00:52:56
these leather pants. It's about 11:00 in
00:52:58
the morning. Um, I've got no underwear
00:53:01
on. The zip's broken. And of course, old
00:53:03
Jolly Rogers hanging out there. Um, but
00:53:06
it's it's not that jolly. It's a cold
00:53:07
day. Um, and I meet up with an old
00:53:10
school friend and I'm like, "Oh, hey,
00:53:11
how you doing?" I remember having some
00:53:12
stupid conversation and she just wanted
00:53:14
to get away. Whereas I was like, "Oh
00:53:16
yeah, no, blah, blah, blah." And it
00:53:18
wasn't until a friend told me later when
00:53:20
we got back in the car and went back
00:53:21
home and you do realize a you're drunk,
00:53:24
b it's 11:00 in the morning, and c you
00:53:26
know, and I was like, "Oh, yeah." Uhhuh.
00:53:29
And because you weren't aware that your
00:53:31
penis was was out. No, it wasn't me
00:53:33
like, "Woo!" Right. Oh, you weren't
00:53:35
flashing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was it
00:53:37
was just an accident. So again, I beat
00:53:38
myself up. My own worst enemy. I mean,
00:53:41
why was I wearing the pants? Why didn't
00:53:42
I have a safety clip? There's so many
00:53:45
concerns that I would have for somebody
00:53:47
like me if I met me now. I mean, I
00:53:50
firstly I wouldn't want to be my friend
00:53:51
cuz I was a dick. Um, but yeah, there's
00:53:57
how far have I come? You know, when I
00:53:59
turn around and I look at myself, I'm
00:54:00
like, "Wow, I was that guy and then now
00:54:03
I'm this guy." And you hear stories of
00:54:04
somebody who was, you know, a murderer
00:54:06
or a thief or whatever, and then and
00:54:09
then now they're this person and and
00:54:11
they've turned their life around. Some
00:54:13
people can, some people can't. And I'm
00:54:15
just I'm I'm super lucky. I'm
00:54:17
privileged. I'm blessed with the people
00:54:19
around me and the situations that have
00:54:22
come up that have allowed me to, as I
00:54:24
say, change very slowly, very painfully
00:54:26
for some of my friends, um, but become
00:54:28
the person I am and still become better
00:54:30
every day. I'm so pleased to hear about
00:54:33
this. um this you know funk part of your
00:54:35
story because I I don't know no I sort
00:54:39
of you know I've known you for maybe 10
00:54:41
years maybe longer probably longer than
00:54:43
that and you've just always been like
00:54:44
relentlessly like positive and upbeat so
00:54:46
I sort of imagined that's what you'd be
00:54:48
like you know you get the bad news at 16
00:54:50
um and you'd I I just assumed you know
00:54:53
you'd you know bounce back fairly
00:54:55
quickly and you with that glass half
00:54:58
full sort of optimism just managed to
00:55:00
find the good in the situation. So to
00:55:01
hear that you have this this period
00:55:03
which is [ __ ] perfectly understandable.
00:55:06
Um it's kind of refreshing. Thank you.
00:55:09
That I I have met other people in cheers
00:55:11
though and and they have progress
00:55:13
through those seven stages of grief or
00:55:15
whatever it is. Um very quickly um one
00:55:17
guy I met literally two weeks but his
00:55:20
what I thought you'd be like. Yeah.
00:55:22
Thank you. Hell no. Wasn't even two
00:55:24
years almost two decades. I suppose
00:55:26
that's a reflection on the person I know
00:55:27
now. Yeah. and and also that that that
00:55:29
face that you see because I'm, you know,
00:55:32
putting it on. I'm I'm allowing it to
00:55:34
come down now because of who we are and
00:55:36
and and what we're doing now. And and
00:55:37
hopefully anyone that's that's watching
00:55:39
this can can relate. And that's what I
00:55:41
want to be now is more of a relatable
00:55:43
person than just a fun person. I like
00:55:46
being a mushroom, a fun
00:55:48
guy. Um but I also like being real.
00:55:51
Yeah. Because being real is is more
00:55:53
important than just being funny. And
00:55:56
Yeah. this this other guy that I knew
00:55:58
two two weeks and I was I was jealous. I
00:56:01
was because I wasted years of my life
00:56:04
coming to terms with it and and getting
00:56:06
better. I don't He wasn't 100% but he
00:56:09
was a good 90% there. Um but because of
00:56:12
who he was um you know he was a
00:56:14
professional um still very young but his
00:56:17
processes and his adult ability I mean
00:56:20
I'm still immature now but his his
00:56:23
ability his maturity level was such that
00:56:25
he could process work out ask questions
00:56:29
understand and move on from that.
00:56:34
Yeah. How how old was he?
00:56:37
Uh 20 21 20 or 21 but still very young.
00:56:43
Yeah. Yeah. Quite a big difference
00:56:44
though between 16 and 21. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:47
Yeah. But I wasn't.
00:56:51
Still barely 30 now, you know, as a 50-y
00:56:54
old. So, um what what were the what were
00:56:56
the biggest surprises about suddenly
00:56:58
being unable to walk?
00:57:00
Wow.
00:57:04
Um that
00:57:06
when you say that the the first one that
00:57:08
comes to mind is toileting
00:57:10
cuz I mean I I could say all these cool
00:57:13
things about you know um you've read the
00:57:15
game by Neil Strauss about peacocking. I
00:57:17
was literally peacocking everywhere I
00:57:18
went and everything I did which was cool
00:57:20
but that's a secondary thing. The first
00:57:22
thing was toileting and it sucked.
00:57:24
That's the first thing you've got to
00:57:25
deal with with being in a chairs. Um and
00:57:28
again depending on the spinal cord
00:57:29
injury and where where you're at and
00:57:30
what level um some people deal with pain
00:57:33
on a constant and I'm super lucky that I
00:57:36
don't have to deal with the pain but I
00:57:37
did have to deal with toileting and to
00:57:39
me that was massive. Suddenly having no
00:57:41
control over bowels and
00:57:43
bladder my body tells me when to go but
00:57:46
it's not the normal like your body would
00:57:48
tell you and it's in English and you
00:57:50
understand it. there's warning signs and
00:57:52
there's a level of you know when it gets
00:57:54
to stage 10 you know at one you're like
00:57:56
you can put it off for a little while no
00:57:58
it would be a whisper I wouldn't know
00:58:00
there would be no warning signs and then
00:58:01
it's over and I've already gone doesn't
00:58:03
matter whether you're on a toilet and
00:58:06
that was horrible and again part of
00:58:08
those five years and coming to terms
00:58:10
with a lot of that situation was was
00:58:14
horrible
00:58:16
and you're 16 as well
00:58:18
yeah you're navigating getting, you
00:58:21
know, being a teenager and the puberty
00:58:23
years and just the confusion of hormones
00:58:26
and everything else. All you want to do
00:58:27
is look good and get sex. I mean I mean
00:58:29
sorry, get get an education. Yeah. And
00:58:32
then now you got to deal with, you know,
00:58:34
you got to get up, get ready, and leave
00:58:36
the house. And just as you're leaving
00:58:38
the house, you [ __ ] yourself. So then
00:58:40
you got to go back to square one. So now
00:58:42
it takes you two hours, three hours to
00:58:44
leave the house. and now you're late for
00:58:46
so now you're frustrated and you're
00:58:48
driving angry and you get to that place
00:58:50
and maybe you got a speeding ticket on
00:58:52
the way there as well. So now all these
00:58:53
things compound and like I say
00:58:54
everything was locked up in this little
00:58:56
wheelchair box and and it's just so
00:59:00
angry all the time because it was
00:59:01
everything. Now I decompartmentalize.
00:59:03
Now the wheelchair box is quite small
00:59:05
but it's still there. It's still a
00:59:06
frustration. I can't do this. I can't
00:59:08
reach that and this would be easier if I
00:59:10
couldn't. But it's still there. I I
00:59:12
can't ever get rid of it because I am in
00:59:14
a chair and it does be frustrating. I
00:59:16
mean it must be so frustrating being
00:59:17
tall said no one ever apart from the
00:59:20
tallest guy in the world maybe. Um but
00:59:23
each of us have a thing you know wearing
00:59:25
glasses maybe I I can't move one finger
00:59:28
properly. It sounds so minial minuscule
00:59:30
but to that individual it'll be a thing.
00:59:33
Somebody else maybe lost their their
00:59:34
wedding finger which again quite
00:59:36
minuscule but if they're going to get
00:59:37
married to them that's massive.
00:59:39
Everyone's got a thing and it'll be
00:59:42
their box along with all the daily
00:59:44
frustrations that we all have, you know,
00:59:46
get out of my way, you know. Um, but
00:59:50
yeah, it's it's just how I process, how
00:59:53
I deal with it, and and how I move on
00:59:55
from it. The toiletry stuff now, that
00:59:58
all good?
01:00:01
Now I'm 50, so there's other things
01:00:03
going on.
01:00:05
But there was a stage a few years ago um
01:00:08
where for a year it was it was horrible.
01:00:10
Uh it it it backpedalled all the way
01:00:12
back to when I was in the spine unit.
01:00:15
And even worse really because um it it I
01:00:21
just couldn't get my bowels. There was
01:00:23
no it wasn't even an IBS, but it was it
01:00:26
was similar. Um and I didn't know what
01:00:29
was going to happen today. It didn't
01:00:31
matter what I ate. the body was just
01:00:33
like, you know what, we'll do what we
01:00:34
want. And it did. So, I would um on
01:00:38
average for for almost an entire year um
01:00:41
have a bowel accident three times a week
01:00:44
on on average.
01:00:47
And that was pretty horrible. And it
01:00:50
really took me back to understanding and
01:00:53
processing and having to um rely on
01:00:57
people around me and not get angry
01:01:00
because it didn't matter how long it
01:01:01
took. I had an explanation or or a
01:01:04
reason. Um and I had to tell people
01:01:08
because I was I was late to this or this
01:01:10
happened. And getting angry doesn't fix
01:01:13
it. Um actually well I did some standup
01:01:15
comedy and uh one of the times I had a
01:01:18
bail accident I was actually at a
01:01:20
conference and the toilet I could go
01:01:22
into this massively cool story that the
01:01:23
outcome of it was is that I started to
01:01:26
remember it on purpose and I started to
01:01:28
smile while I was still in it doing it
01:01:31
and cleaning it and everything else. It
01:01:33
was it was horrible. It's like that
01:01:35
daddy daycare scene where he's looking
01:01:36
around there he's like the poo on the
01:01:39
roof and stuff. It there was it was
01:01:40
horrid, but it's funny and and I'm
01:01:43
sharing with you it's it's comical, but
01:01:45
I could tell you and it make you cry.
01:01:48
But why why would I do that to myself? I
01:01:51
didn't want to get angry anymore. And so
01:01:54
I took some learning and some experience
01:01:56
that I've had about some standup comedy.
01:01:58
It's like I could tell this to people
01:01:59
and make it funny. I could tell this
01:02:02
story and evolve them in it and now this
01:02:05
experience isn't terrible and and they
01:02:07
have some level of understanding and
01:02:09
experience of it even not firsthand.
01:02:12
But then should that experience come to
01:02:14
them uh or or or happen to someone
01:02:17
around them, then maybe they'll smile
01:02:18
and laugh or be able to share with
01:02:20
somebody else. Yeah, cuz humor is
01:02:23
definitely humor is kind of another mask
01:02:24
in a way though, isn't it? Like a lot of
01:02:25
a lot of comedians um are like like
01:02:28
deeply deeply sort of troubled and they
01:02:29
they tell I actually I yeah when I um
01:02:33
had one of my first therapy sessions I
01:02:34
found I was sort of like telling um yeah
01:02:36
personal stories as jokes and the
01:02:38
therapist just wasn't sitting there
01:02:40
laughing and I thought I was gold I've
01:02:43
written these stories in books. These
01:02:44
are these trust me these are very very
01:02:46
funny stories and the therapist was like
01:02:49
it's it's just not that funny. It's not
01:02:51
that funny. It's your this is your life
01:02:53
and it's not it's not funny. But it's
01:02:55
you can choose to Yeah. I don't know.
01:02:58
There's a deep sadness beneath it
01:03:00
though, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
01:03:01
Absolutely. But the um like a therapy
01:03:04
session is is very different to comedy.
01:03:06
You you want somebody to laugh. You
01:03:08
don't really want your therapist to
01:03:10
laugh. Yeah. Time and place. Yeah,
01:03:12
definitely time and place. But in in
01:03:14
sharing sometimes sharing some of
01:03:17
ourselves and this is again me me taking
01:03:19
off the mask and being vulnerable. Um, I
01:03:21
feel sharing part of myself and part of
01:03:23
my story with others makes me
01:03:25
vulnerable. It also helps them
01:03:27
understand. And if I if I don't share
01:03:29
that, like I cut one of my toes, I
01:03:31
couldn't feel it. I didn't know what was
01:03:33
going on. I was just looking around for
01:03:34
where this blood's coming from. Like,
01:03:35
where's this blood coming from? And then
01:03:37
I see the front of my toes all cut off
01:03:38
and I'm like, I'm glad I can't feel
01:03:41
that.
01:03:42
That would really hurt. Pros and cons.
01:03:45
So, you've got no feeling from where?
01:03:47
Uh, it's kind of numb from the knees
01:03:49
down, right? So, it's like pins and
01:03:51
needles. I could put a foot in in hot
01:03:54
water and cold water and not know which
01:03:56
is which. Okay. It'll be sending me
01:03:58
signals saying, you know, there's
01:03:59
something going on, but I don't know
01:04:01
which is which. I had a primary school
01:04:02
kid once asked me, he goes, if I stab
01:04:04
you in the leg, would you bleed? Like,
01:04:06
firstly, move them away from sharp
01:04:07
objects. Uh, and secondly, to answer
01:04:11
your question, there is blood moving
01:04:12
around my legs. Cuz that was essentially
01:04:14
what he wanted to know. Uh and and this
01:04:18
is is taking the questions from people
01:04:20
as well is what they're meaning, not the
01:04:23
words. I had someone else ask me in
01:04:26
Australia, what's it like being a
01:04:27
[ __ ] I'm like, I could have taken
01:04:29
offense to it. I don't cuz I I don't
01:04:31
care. Um and I was just like, oh, it's
01:04:33
just like walking around, but I I do it
01:04:35
sitting. And he was like, okay. And he
01:04:37
walked off. He was he was
01:04:39
drunk. It's just it's just the same. All
01:04:42
he wanted was an answer. Yeah. and he he
01:04:44
got an answer and it was okay with him
01:04:45
and he moved on. Well, that's that's a
01:04:47
band word though, isn't it? The C word.
01:04:52
The irony is is is you can say
01:04:54
everything right to the wrong person and
01:04:57
it's wrong and you can say something
01:04:59
wrong to the right person and it's
01:05:02
right. So, so [ __ ] to me when you
01:05:05
look at terminology, not PC, look at
01:05:08
terminology and the definition of a
01:05:10
word. If I disable your car, I stop it
01:05:13
working. Now, if I take one of your
01:05:16
wheels off, I've crippled your car, but
01:05:18
I've not disabled it. You can still
01:05:20
drive it badly, but it would still move.
01:05:23
And so, the difference between the two,
01:05:24
it's like, well, am I crippled or am I
01:05:26
disabled? So, I don't really care. I I I
01:05:29
try and take off the PC terms because
01:05:31
I'm not offended. But in this day and
01:05:33
age, everyone's like, "Oh, you're
01:05:34
offended. You can't say crazy. You can't
01:05:36
say don't cut yourself to get rid of the
01:05:38
pain." you can't say all these things.
01:05:40
And I just say, "Look, I'm sorry. I'm
01:05:42
not saying them in an offensive way. I
01:05:44
don't mean to be offensive. I don't mean
01:05:46
to be terrible. I try and watch my P's
01:05:48
and Q's, but I I really can't." Um, and
01:05:51
just because I'm in a chat doesn't make
01:05:52
it better. If anything, it probably
01:05:54
makes it worse, which is why I apologize
01:05:56
so much. But I I do it on purpose. And
01:05:58
like I say, I try and get better on a
01:06:01
daily. I try and look at um because I
01:06:03
did have somebody online actually make a
01:06:06
comment of one of the videos I had done
01:06:08
and said you can't say that that's
01:06:09
that's really offensive and I was like
01:06:11
what rather than getting angry at him I
01:06:13
relooked at it and was like that's
01:06:16
offensive okay well I'm learning and and
01:06:19
I went back to him and said thanks you
01:06:20
know cheers for letting me know I might
01:06:23
do it again by accident but it won't be
01:06:25
on purpose and at least then I'll know
01:06:26
what I've done
01:06:28
that's why we have boundaries that's why
01:06:30
we have curbs to keep on the road, the
01:06:32
straight and narrow. And if somebody
01:06:34
wasn't telling me I was doing something
01:06:35
wrong, I wouldn't know.
01:06:40
This is good stuff. Oh, good. Cuz I'm
01:06:42
I'm thinking we've we've got another
01:06:43
three hours to go. This is No, this is
01:06:46
it's it's really really interesting
01:06:48
stuff. Good. You got such a great
01:06:49
attitude. So, um so you get out of
01:06:51
hospital and the spinal unit, then you
01:06:53
go back home. Do you do you you live
01:06:55
you're 16, so you're living at the
01:06:56
family home. Do your parents have to
01:06:58
like modify the house? Yeah. Yes. And
01:07:01
their vehicle need a new vehicle, same
01:07:03
vehicle as everything again didn't have
01:07:05
a license at the time. So that was again
01:07:08
was a whole new thing. U but I had to
01:07:10
learn how to drive and I thought okay
01:07:12
how do I drive? Steering wheel,
01:07:14
accelerator, brake. Okay, got it. I can
01:07:17
drive. And then I had to do a driving
01:07:18
test. Uh and I got my driver's license
01:07:21
and it actually ended up being all
01:07:22
right. But for the house I was actually
01:07:25
incredibly lucky. Pardon me. In a very
01:07:28
quick turnaround, I think it was only
01:07:30
about two months, uh we managed to get
01:07:34
uh a house modified and then us move in
01:07:37
from moving uh and leaving the spine
01:07:39
unit. Uh nowadays, like in the now, um
01:07:44
let's say somebody left the spine unit.
01:07:46
Um it would be maybe 6 months possibly
01:07:50
two years. It all depends on the
01:07:52
modifications they need, their house
01:07:54
approval. Are they MO which is the
01:07:56
Ministry of Health um which is the
01:07:58
government system um or are they under
01:08:01
ACC which is the basically you're you're
01:08:03
a government insurer uh as to how fast
01:08:06
people work and what they're
01:08:08
allowed. Yeah. Uh I had to learn how to
01:08:12
drive but I didn't have an understanding
01:08:14
of how to drive with my legs anyway. And
01:08:16
the first time I actually went for a
01:08:17
drive with somebody, a guy called Wallow
01:08:19
actually, who was driving um with a
01:08:21
walking stick in his XC Falcon, I always
01:08:23
remember freaking out because he's using
01:08:25
a stick. He's not using his legs. And
01:08:27
I'm like, "Oh, wait. I I'll be doing the
01:08:28
same thing." I mean, obviously not with
01:08:30
a walking stick, but he was uh he was
01:08:32
driving. And I was like, "Oh, well, I'm
01:08:34
going to be doing the same thing
01:08:35
basically." And even now when I get in
01:08:38
the car with another wheelchair person,
01:08:40
it seems so dumb because it's exactly
01:08:42
what I do. I freak out because they're
01:08:44
not using their legs. because we're so
01:08:46
attuned to what we see and and looking
01:08:50
outwardly, not looking inwardly at
01:08:52
ourselves. And it it takes me a second
01:08:53
to bite my tongue and just I do exactly
01:08:56
the same thing. But it's it's all about
01:08:58
control. And we're used to seeing the
01:09:00
control done with with four limbs. And
01:09:02
when it's only done with two limbs,
01:09:03
suddenly it's like it's a freak out.
01:09:06
Yeah. You're so quick at it now. Like
01:09:08
you you pulled into Pod Lab today for
01:09:10
the podcast and you just have the chair
01:09:11
collapsed on the passenger seat, fling
01:09:14
that out on the ground and then put
01:09:15
yourself in it and Yeah. Well, I get
01:09:18
every month 30 seconds. I get a new
01:09:21
chair every month. So, I just chuck it
01:09:22
out, get a new chair. It's a throwaway
01:09:23
thing. Yeah. No, but it's it's like
01:09:26
under a minute though from the time you
01:09:27
parked to the time you're out. Uh
01:09:30
there's there's two things to that. One
01:09:32
is that um you don't want to take time
01:09:34
in the rain, so you learn how to do it
01:09:36
quite quickly. Uh and you also kind of
01:09:38
don't want to damage your car because
01:09:40
then you're driving around a scratched
01:09:41
and damaged and dented car. Um and and
01:09:44
the other thing is that I've got to be
01:09:46
careful of my shoulders because I'm
01:09:49
doing, you know, this every day. When I
01:09:51
was a sales rep, I was pulling my chair
01:09:52
in and out of the car. I think I counted
01:09:54
once 30 times in one day. It's a lot of
01:09:57
transfers. Um,
01:10:00
but again, you do that same routine
01:10:03
thing. Yes, it's a wear and tear, but it
01:10:06
also builds up strength and technique.
01:10:08
So, it's it's kind of a horrible catch
01:10:11
22. So, now I'm I'm 50 and I've been in
01:10:14
chair for several years. I'm looking at
01:10:16
a thing called an Abbeby loader where
01:10:17
the boot opens up and this mechanical
01:10:20
arm comes around and grabs the chair and
01:10:22
puts it in the boot. And so now I have
01:10:24
no boot, but I also don't have to worry
01:10:27
about putting the chair in the car.
01:10:28
That's something I'm looking at after a
01:10:30
shoulder operation in three or four
01:10:31
years after I do some more marathons cuz
01:10:34
I'm not allowed the surgery before I do
01:10:35
more marathons.
01:10:37
Is that right? Is there going to be like
01:10:38
a line in the sand like get this out of
01:10:40
your system and then we'll and then
01:10:42
we're done. Because I talked to the
01:10:43
surgeon and said so like you know I'm
01:10:45
going to get the surgery this year. It
01:10:46
was all planned for March the 18th this
01:10:48
year. uh and uh you know I'm going to do
01:10:50
a few more marathons and that and he was
01:10:52
like so tell me again and I explained to
01:10:55
him and he goes you no no that's not a
01:10:58
good idea. Uh
01:11:01
so I'm like okay yeah but most of the
01:11:02
[ __ ] you've done is not a good idea. It
01:11:04
doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. But I
01:11:06
I I take the the the pain and the fact
01:11:09
that I'm going to be on bed rest for 6
01:11:11
months. Minimum six is probably more
01:11:13
likely 9 month recovery.
01:11:15
And now think to yourself, could you
01:11:18
deal with three to six months of being
01:11:21
at home mostly on bed rest? No. Do it
01:11:25
twice. Okay, maybe three times. And
01:11:27
you're like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:11:29
Let's just do it once because if I did
01:11:31
this shoulder this year, which I could
01:11:33
do, that's the recovery, and then I'll
01:11:37
have to do this one at the end of the
01:11:39
marathon, and then I might need this one
01:11:42
done again a few years after that. I
01:11:43
like, "Well, let's do both and become a
01:11:45
T-Rex." Um, you know, I think of
01:11:47
Deadpool. You know, the T-Rex was the
01:11:49
most feared creature of all the animals.
01:11:52
Uh, yeah. And, um, get it done once and
01:11:55
then forget about it, move on. Yeah.
01:11:58
Um, Yes. So, back to when you're 16.
01:12:01
Yeah. Um, so your friends at the time,
01:12:03
your your your young hoodlam friends,
01:12:05
the Scooter Gang, were they were they
01:12:08
like supportive and inclusive or they
01:12:11
were so supportive. Dom um was it
01:12:14
survivor guilt, do you think in a way?
01:12:16
Uh, no. Because the the the biggest
01:12:18
advocate, the the biggest friend, the
01:12:20
one that was forcing me to go, I don't
01:12:22
think he asked me if I wanted to go to
01:12:23
the beach. The first time I went to the
01:12:25
beach, he just said, "We're going to the
01:12:26
beach." and and they came in the cars,
01:12:28
whatever they were, the the eh holdings
01:12:30
and the XC Falcon and probably the
01:12:32
Escort that was stolen. Um, and we went
01:12:34
to the beach and and we went we went on
01:12:37
the sand and it was just we're going um
01:12:39
and he was like the the leader of the
01:12:41
gang or the the group leader and and um
01:12:45
it it wasn't really a gang, it was just
01:12:46
a group of us and um he was just we
01:12:49
going places, we're doing things. Lee
01:12:51
was part of the group, he still was part
01:12:52
of the group. Off you come, you know,
01:12:54
and and we did it. And I remember that
01:12:56
first trip to the beach and it was it
01:12:58
was pretty sucky, but it was also
01:13:00
awesome. It was making me go places and
01:13:04
doing the things that I didn't want to
01:13:05
do without question. Um I remember
01:13:09
sitting there on the sand and watching
01:13:10
them um play in my chair and and getting
01:13:12
pushed out and and taking it in the
01:13:14
there was salt water and and the chair
01:13:16
seized up and we had to throw it. It was
01:13:18
worth like $1,000 back in the day. It
01:13:20
was horrendous. But but it's laughing.
01:13:22
See, and it was it was doing those
01:13:24
things that made it normal. If we if
01:13:26
we're laughing, it's normal. When we're
01:13:29
not laughing, something's wrong. And
01:13:32
when you acknowledge something wrong all
01:13:34
the time, you're feeling pain all the
01:13:36
time, and it hurts all the time. And you
01:13:38
can't hurt all the time. You can't laugh
01:13:40
all the time. And that takes me Robin
01:13:43
Williams. But you you've got to share.
01:13:45
You've got to take the mask off. You've
01:13:46
got to be real. And that's what I'm I'm
01:13:51
all about now. And I I don't want to cry
01:13:52
but I do it does take me back it does
01:13:56
take me back to that time where um
01:14:00
everything hurt. Getting up in the
01:14:01
morning hurt going places hurt my
01:14:04
physically or emotionally or both?
01:14:06
Emotionally. I I didn't have any pain
01:14:10
apart from internal again because I was
01:14:12
in my way. If I wasn't beating myself up
01:14:15
um I was worried what other people were
01:14:17
saying about me. M one incident I had a
01:14:21
woman ask me if I needed help getting
01:14:23
out of the car. Probably a lovely old
01:14:25
lady. I remember swearing at her and
01:14:28
yelling at her saying, "I don't need
01:14:29
help. What if I was drunk? Was I drunk?
01:14:31
Would you still help me?" You know,
01:14:33
[ __ ] [ __ ] off. And and she probably
01:14:36
never offered help again. And and again,
01:14:39
I'd beat myself up later on that day and
01:14:41
say, "I should have done this and I
01:14:42
could have done that and what I'd done
01:14:44
differently because I was still angry. I
01:14:47
was angry at everyone not accepting
01:14:49
help. It's not to say I accept help now,
01:14:53
but now I'll let someone down easy and
01:14:55
say, "Thank you so much for offering.
01:14:57
Yeah, I'm all right." Or, "Can you hold
01:14:58
this and make it take longer?" But then
01:15:01
then they'll offer somebody else. And
01:15:03
this other person might not be able to
01:15:06
ask for help. They might be too
01:15:08
ignorant. It might be too early on in
01:15:09
their their wheelchair spinal cord
01:15:11
injury journey or whatever it is that
01:15:13
they can't and and somebody needs to
01:15:15
offer help. When you push me up the
01:15:17
ramp, I I could have pushed the whole
01:15:19
way and I wasn't like, "Hey, don't touch
01:15:20
me." I was like, "Oh, he's giving me a
01:15:22
bit of a turbo push. Look at that." And
01:15:24
and you help me up.
01:15:26
That wasn't offensive, but some people
01:15:28
would take it that way as as the word
01:15:30
[ __ ] and all these sorts of things.
01:15:32
It's all about where the person's at and
01:15:35
how they take things. M I I'm not a PC
01:15:38
person. I don't worry about somebody
01:15:40
trying to help me. I've been dropped by
01:15:42
airlines. And what do you mean? Yeah.
01:15:46
I'm not going to go down.
01:15:49
No, we don't. Emirates. Um but uh I
01:15:54
didn't say their name, you know. I was
01:15:55
coughing. It was cough. It just sounded
01:15:57
like just sounded like that. Um but what
01:16:00
do you mean they dropped you? Yeah. Are
01:16:04
the brakes on? Yes. What you mean is no
01:16:07
cuz here I am on the floor. Yeah. They
01:16:09
dropped me and it's then then you send
01:16:13
an email saying, "Hey, look, this
01:16:14
happened." Takes four months. You get a
01:16:16
reply and they say, "Oh, we talked to
01:16:18
our crew and there's nothing wrong and
01:16:19
that didn't happen and you never told us
01:16:21
there was a problem. So, hey, we'll see
01:16:23
you again on another flight." And I'm
01:16:24
like, "Yeah, no, never." Um,
01:16:28
and I put it down to training,
01:16:29
understanding there's a culture
01:16:31
difference. other airlines I've got on
01:16:33
and they've said, "Oh, your seat's just
01:16:35
just two steps." And I'm like, "Yeah."
01:16:37
And they're like, "No, it's just two
01:16:39
just two steps." And I'm like, "Yeah,
01:16:42
no, I can't." And they're like, "Oh, but
01:16:43
if you can just stand up, we help you."
01:16:45
And I'm like, "Yeah, no, it's that's not
01:16:47
happening." Um, and years of experience
01:16:50
of travel have taught me that they're
01:16:52
not being offensive. They're not doing
01:16:54
it on purpose. It's their understanding
01:16:56
of disability for them is somebody in a
01:16:59
chair that can't mobilize very well. Not
01:17:02
can't mobilize at all. Their
01:17:04
understanding is it's hard, not
01:17:07
impossible. Whereas for me, yeah, unless
01:17:09
I'm floating, it's not happening. Uh and
01:17:12
I I used to get offended by that. And
01:17:15
now I'm just like, no, like you need to
01:17:16
understand that I I actually can't walk
01:17:18
at all. There's no point yelling at
01:17:20
someone and there's no point trying to
01:17:23
educate them, you know, and laying down
01:17:24
the law and then pulling out some Google
01:17:26
maps and and explaining on a on a scale
01:17:29
of, you know, spinal cord injuries and
01:17:31
where nerve endings go and how muscles
01:17:32
work. It's it's just very simply just
01:17:35
saying, "I don't work the way you think
01:17:37
I do." And um that yeah, it's it's not
01:17:41
really offensive, but look, it's not
01:17:43
happening. and then hoping that the next
01:17:46
time they come across somebody else that
01:17:47
they'll have a little bit more knowledge
01:17:50
base or experience to draw on that they
01:17:52
might say things differently because
01:17:54
that next person might might just mouth
01:17:55
off and explode at them for some reason.
01:18:01
So um yes so you had that angry period
01:18:05
the the do we call them the self-pity
01:18:07
years? What do we ooh self-pity
01:18:10
self-pity
01:18:12
um
01:18:13
self-deprecating um annoying angry you
01:18:16
can call them many names and any name
01:18:18
you put on it is true what was the what
01:18:20
was the turning point cuz you were quite
01:18:22
quite late to discovering sport that it
01:18:24
took you like 11 years so you're like
01:18:25
late 20s so yeah yeah late 20s the um I
01:18:30
mean that's like what that's that's
01:18:32
almost 80 years old in in like rugby
01:18:34
terms is because there or tennis like 36
01:18:38
years old is oh my gosh she's so old
01:18:40
still playing tennis she's 13 she should
01:18:42
be um yeah there's the progression of
01:18:45
breaking my back um the horrible times
01:18:49
um and then the um suicide and then that
01:18:53
was the turning point I the slow
01:18:56
learning side of it was I didn't I
01:18:57
didn't try again
01:18:59
um but that was when I got as low as I
01:19:03
could possibly get and I say that in the
01:19:06
way of that It was me getting me low and
01:19:10
there wasn't anyone else to blame. If if
01:19:12
I had have succeeded, if I had have
01:19:13
died, um there wasn't anyone else to
01:19:16
blame. And regardless of what I had
01:19:19
wrote, cuz I think I wrote a suicide
01:19:20
note. Um
01:19:23
What do you mean you think? I think cuz
01:19:24
I I don't know. I ripped all that stuff
01:19:26
up. I got rid of stuff. I mean, I I
01:19:28
blamed all these other things and I I
01:19:30
think there was a diary. I think I wrote
01:19:32
something. I don't know. But whatever I
01:19:33
wrote, I can look back on it now and
01:19:35
honestly say it didn't matter because I
01:19:38
was the one to blame. Even if I said,
01:19:40
"Oh, it was my mom's fault or it was my
01:19:42
dad's fault or it was it was this friend
01:19:44
and they did this or I wrote all this
01:19:46
list of these people have hurt me." Um,
01:19:49
it's all bollocks cuz it's all me. It's
01:19:51
all internal. I made the choice and I
01:19:53
made the choice because of my decisions
01:19:55
and what was going on in my head and and
01:19:59
yeah. So why was the um suicide attempt
01:20:02
um a turning point? Was it um like did
01:20:05
did you wake up and sort of have this
01:20:06
euphoric moment where you you were so
01:20:09
lucky that you survived or was it just
01:20:11
seeing the hurt that you'd caused your
01:20:12
loved ones or again slow learning? I
01:20:15
wish I could say that Dom I wish I could
01:20:17
say that I I woke up the next day and
01:20:19
and everything was fine. This is my
01:20:22
second chance. I'm not going to
01:20:22
squander. Well, we'll see. Like don't
01:20:25
you get three lives? I put in my 20
01:20:26
cents. Where? What? Yeah. Um, no, I woke
01:20:30
up the next day and they gave me a pill.
01:20:34
Uh, and then I I I didn't really
01:20:37
question it and and yeah, it evolved.
01:20:40
The the first three days I I think were
01:20:42
a blur. Um, I did find out they didn't
01:20:44
pump my stomach. Um, because the
01:20:46
sleeping pills I had taken were actually
01:20:48
so pathetic um that they didn't pump my
01:20:50
stomach. And I said, "You should have."
01:20:52
I said, "You should do it to anyone
01:20:55
because I don't know if you've you've
01:20:57
ever gone through this. But I'm assuming
01:20:58
you haven't. Um, but anyone that has
01:21:00
gone through a a pmic stump, a stomach
01:21:03
pump, um, the sucking out of everything
01:21:06
in your stomach. So that's the acids,
01:21:09
the the the lining that. So you're in so
01:21:12
much pain. You feel the sickest you have
01:21:15
ever been in your life and it doesn't go
01:21:18
away quickly. that that to me is
01:21:22
something that is almost punishment that
01:21:24
needs to be done to somebody that is has
01:21:26
tried to do it and and not succeeded.
01:21:28
It's like, hey, this is what's going to
01:21:29
happen when you live. But they didn't.
01:21:32
Uh but I I did take these these happy
01:21:35
pills. I don't even remember what they
01:21:36
were, what they were called, uh for a
01:21:38
couple of days. And then I questioned
01:21:40
it. I was like, why am I taking these?
01:21:43
And they were like, oh, this is to help
01:21:44
you chemical imbalance. And I'm like,
01:21:47
well, how long am I going to take them
01:21:49
for? And they're like, "Oh, like this is
01:21:51
longterm." And I'm like, "What if I
01:21:53
forget? What if I miss one? What if I
01:21:56
skip a few? What if I travel and I
01:21:57
haven't taken any with me?" "Oh, don't."
01:22:00
And I'm like, "Well, I don't like that
01:22:01
idea. How about I just don't take them?"
01:22:03
And they're like, "Oh, what? What?" And
01:22:07
it kind of freaked them out like people
01:22:08
don't say that. You know, you've had a
01:22:10
suicide attempt. You know, we've got to
01:22:11
try and it's like, well, it's not
01:22:14
band-aid. This is something now you're
01:22:16
giving me a crutch. and you're saying,
01:22:17
"I'm going to have to keep using this
01:22:18
crutch on a daily basis." So, I was at
01:22:20
least smart enough to to say no to that.
01:22:23
I've got to fix myself, not take this
01:22:26
pill. And then I I'm pretty sure it was
01:22:29
the same day I was sitting looking. I
01:22:32
was in in Vicle uh hospital and I was I
01:22:35
was watching the buildings and uh the in
01:22:38
the smoking area and this lady next to
01:22:41
me was having an argument with herself
01:22:44
about not giving herself a cigarette.
01:22:47
outwardly. And that was when I realized,
01:22:49
yeah, I'm pretty normal. That's not
01:22:51
normal. I'm normal, normal as I can be.
01:22:55
And I need to get out of here and get
01:22:56
back home. I need to get myself fixed.
01:22:58
And I need to I need to do differently
01:23:01
to what I've done to get here. I need to
01:23:03
share with people cuz I realized I was
01:23:05
wearing a clown mask and I just didn't
01:23:06
take it off. It just sat on. I was in
01:23:09
the Squid Games and the mask was on the
01:23:10
whole time and I I I need to take it off
01:23:13
and I need to share with people. I still
01:23:16
didn't go to
01:23:17
therapy. I felt that if I needed to
01:23:20
share, I needed to share with friends so
01:23:22
they understood and I now understand
01:23:25
therapy is a bit different because the
01:23:27
therapist listens to you. They don't go,
01:23:29
"Oh yeah, I had a friend Jim and start
01:23:31
telling you their stories." The
01:23:33
therapist actually helps you unpack
01:23:35
yourself and that's why I enjoy going to
01:23:37
therapy now because I can share and they
01:23:40
don't try and give me an idiom or an
01:23:41
analogy or or recycle it back to me.
01:23:44
They just try and get to the root so I
01:23:46
can get it out of me, understand it, and
01:23:49
then put it back away nicely and in a in
01:23:51
a uniform or Lego brick way rather than
01:23:54
it just it just springs out wherever all
01:23:56
the time. So I shared with friends and
01:23:59
it helped but it wasn't until I actually
01:24:02
got proper help which was again several
01:24:04
years later that I could see some of the
01:24:07
things I was doing. So where are we at
01:24:09
now when you started therapy? like 30s,
01:24:13
40s, 50s.
01:24:17
Really? Just recently I I did god we're
01:24:19
slow learners. Very slow learners. Me
01:24:21
both. Uh when I actually I was at uni um
01:24:26
studying for for teachers training
01:24:28
college. Yeah. Very slow learners. Um
01:24:30
but we take it. But you can't lead a
01:24:32
horse to water and force it to drink.
01:24:34
We're ready when we're ready. Right.
01:24:35
Like everything else in the world when
01:24:37
when it's time it's time. And and you
01:24:39
know, so I was at teachers training
01:24:41
college and uh and this girl broke up
01:24:44
with me. I actually nickname her red
01:24:45
flags because everything about her was a
01:24:47
red flag. She was crazy but [ __ ] hot.
01:24:51
She even got her tits done while we were
01:24:52
together. Oh, they were great tits. Um
01:24:55
that she was wonderful but also
01:24:56
terrible. Like terrible. Like
01:24:58
horrendous. She was still seeing her ex
01:25:02
that she slept with um while she was
01:25:05
married. She was still seeing her
01:25:07
ex-husband, but she was still married to
01:25:09
him. She was still Oh, there was
01:25:10
horrible things. Anyway, so eventually
01:25:12
we broke up, which was probably the best
01:25:14
thing for me after two years of of oh,
01:25:17
just terrible times. Um, and I saw a
01:25:20
therapist. I thought, I'm feeling low.
01:25:24
And I realized that because one day I
01:25:26
was cleaning my car and cleaning out the
01:25:28
garage so that when I died, everything
01:25:33
would be nice and ready. Uh, and I
01:25:36
thought this is not where I want to be.
01:25:39
And I'm I'm thinking seriously about
01:25:40
something I don't want to be thinking
01:25:42
about. I'm I'm point five away from zero
01:25:45
and I don't want to reach zero. So I
01:25:47
went to I went to therapy that was uh I
01:25:50
was late 30s and um uh I saw a guy and
01:25:56
and and chatted with him cuz I didn't
01:25:57
want to see a girl cuz I knew I'd just
01:25:59
try and hit on her. So I sort of guy and
01:26:01
and then I could see him as a father
01:26:03
figure and as a friend and as a mate and
01:26:06
and open up and share and I I did and
01:26:10
and he said after after the first
01:26:12
session he said everything you're doing
01:26:14
is what I would tell you. You're reading
01:26:16
books, you're writing down in your diary
01:26:18
how you feel at the beginning of the day
01:26:19
and the end of the day. You're writing
01:26:21
down your thoughts through the day. He
01:26:23
said I almost can't share anything
01:26:26
differently with you. I could tell you
01:26:27
maybe another couple of books that you
01:26:29
could read. But he said, "Everything
01:26:30
you're doing is on a daily. You're not
01:26:32
thinking about next week, next month,
01:26:34
next year. You're not trying to make
01:26:35
massive plans. You're just, can I get
01:26:37
through today?
01:26:39
And if I can get through today, good.
01:26:42
And then tomorrow I wake up and can I
01:26:44
get through today?" And then making it
01:26:47
through so that the days are
01:26:49
better. One of the things, one of my
01:26:52
takeaways from that was reflection.
01:26:55
and reflecting on specifics of good
01:26:58
things and those good things, those good
01:27:01
nuggets, even one was enough to say that
01:27:05
was a good day. And then I moved
01:27:07
forward. I only saw him, I think, six
01:27:09
times. Uh, and that was enough
01:27:11
to, okay, I'm not cleaning my car now.
01:27:15
Just gives you gives you different tools
01:27:17
and different ways of framing things.
01:27:18
Um, but yeah, what you're talking about
01:27:20
there, it just sounds like practicing
01:27:21
gratitude. Yeah. Um, and when you Yeah.
01:27:25
I I found when you start doing that,
01:27:27
when you start like taking a mental
01:27:28
stock take of all the things you've got
01:27:29
to be grateful for, it becomes easier to
01:27:31
find them. And little things that you
01:27:32
might just do on autopilot, like go and
01:27:35
buy a $6 coffee and drink it without
01:27:36
even thinking about it while you're
01:27:37
scrolling on your phone. If you actually
01:27:39
spend a moment to be mindful about it,
01:27:40
you actually really enjoy it. But you um
01:27:44
yes, therapy is helpful, but that came
01:27:46
much later. So um yeah, you lose the
01:27:49
ability to walk at 16. You're a brat for
01:27:52
many years afterwards. Then there's the
01:27:54
suicide attempt and then that's a major
01:27:56
life life or attitude pivot. Yeah. So,
01:27:59
so how did how did that look? How did
01:28:01
you how did you realize you needed to do
01:28:02
a full
01:28:04
180? Well, where did you begin?
01:28:07
It was beginning by coming back to life
01:28:09
and knowing what I was doing was
01:28:12
wrong. You you what's that uh idiom? The
01:28:15
analogy of um do the same things expect
01:28:17
a different result, you know. Yeah. It's
01:28:19
the definition of madness. Yeah.
01:28:20
Absolutely. So, I knew what I had done
01:28:24
wasn't working because it had led me to
01:28:26
that path, that that point in my life,
01:28:28
and I knew enough to know that I just
01:28:30
don't want to do that
01:28:31
again. So, it was I need to do something
01:28:35
different. What that different was, how
01:28:37
it looked, that was so far away. I
01:28:40
didn't know. And again, I'm sure there's
01:28:44
so many people have these great
01:28:45
analogies of doing this and doing that
01:28:46
and I I did this and I planned that and
01:28:48
I had this year ahead and I'm just like
01:28:50
I'm a simple man. I can barely think of
01:28:53
tomorrow let next year and then I'm
01:28:55
doing the habits six stars, you know,
01:28:56
because now I I I plan and no matter how
01:29:00
sad I get, no matter what's happening in
01:29:02
my daily life, well, I've planned this,
01:29:05
I can't not do that. Or well, I haven't
01:29:08
got any debt, so you know, I'm not that
01:29:10
bad, but then I haven't got a house. But
01:29:11
then I haven't got any debt. I haven't
01:29:13
got this and but I have got that and
01:29:14
like you said being being gracious and
01:29:17
looking back and thankful for different
01:29:20
areas of my life of things I do have. I
01:29:23
mean thanks for reminding me I haven't
01:29:24
got a partner Dom but you know whatever.
01:29:26
Oh yeah. Yeah. Let's let's talk about
01:29:28
that. So the um the dating Oh thanks.
01:29:30
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm single. Cheers.
01:29:31
Cheers. Yeah. Hopefully uh well I mean
01:29:35
after this podcast comes out maybe
01:29:36
there'll be some people sliding in you.
01:29:38
Ladies, where's the cameras? Yeah.
01:29:40
Single. That came up. Yeah, that one.
01:29:43
Single and ready to mingle. No, that
01:29:45
sounds terrible. Um, so yeah. So,
01:29:47
navigating uh dating and relationships
01:29:50
when you had Had you had a proper
01:29:51
girlfriend pre-ac,
01:29:54
proper girlfriend. I'd had sex twice.
01:29:59
Uh, that was it. Uh, I remember riding
01:30:02
home on my push bike actually after the
01:30:03
first time I had sex uh in the treeut at
01:30:05
One Tree Hill and uh funny you should
01:30:07
ask and uh riding home thinking wanking
01:30:10
was way better than sex. It's got to get
01:30:12
better and then like but I've had sex.
01:30:15
Um I'm sure I'm sure your partner was
01:30:18
thinking much the same thing like No,
01:30:19
no, no. That was that was a random girl
01:30:20
I met on the bus. She wasn't my partner.
01:30:22
She was random. Yeah. Yeah. But good
01:30:24
times. I smell like strawberry jam.
01:30:25
Anyway, uh it was uh the girl I was kind
01:30:30
of seeing at the time. Uh when I broke
01:30:33
my back, I broke up with her. I was an
01:30:36
angry little [ __ ] And because I was in
01:30:38
hospital again, I was in my own way. I
01:30:41
thought she wouldn't want to date
01:30:43
somebody in a chair. Um I got angry at
01:30:46
her, yelled at her and said, "Whatever."
01:30:48
And and either made her I can't remember
01:30:50
the exact way it turned out. either made
01:30:52
her break up with me or um I I broke it
01:30:56
off with her in a very angry way that I
01:30:59
that's it done. Like not even friends.
01:31:02
Um and she was a really nice girl.
01:31:04
Really nice girl. Um very sad. Very sad.
01:31:08
And again that was that was me and
01:31:10
several relationships I had after being
01:31:13
in a chair. Um angry Lee, what a dick.
01:31:17
I' I'd look back at me and think, you
01:31:19
know, some of those girls would have
01:31:21
been wonderful wives. They would have
01:31:22
been great mothers. They would have been
01:31:25
my best friends for the rest of my life.
01:31:27
And yet, I was a dick. I I cheated on a
01:31:29
couple of girls. Quite to be quite frank
01:31:31
and honest, a couple of them cheated on
01:31:33
me. Um, I was in a terrible place. And
01:31:37
sometimes the relationships just fell
01:31:39
apart because I wanted something
01:31:41
different. And so I just broke up with
01:31:43
them and then went a different way and
01:31:45
then saw somebody else and went with
01:31:47
somebody else. And then I I look back
01:31:48
and think there's at least five women I
01:31:51
could say quite comfortably would have
01:31:54
been the best for me now and and would
01:31:57
have been the best for me from then to
01:31:59
now. Um marriage um even if we didn't
01:32:03
have kids. Um, but I would have gone in
01:32:06
a completely different direction. I'd be
01:32:07
a different person.
01:32:09
Yeah. Hindsight. Hindsight's a funny
01:32:11
thing. You have to be ready though.
01:32:13
Like, yeah. You You had to grow into the
01:32:15
person you are now. Yeah. Um, and
01:32:17
everything. So, you've never been
01:32:18
married. Uh, no. I I I think I've been
01:32:22
engaged three times if you can count if
01:32:25
you can count a burger ring. Uh, because
01:32:27
I hadn't actually got a real ring. Uh,
01:32:30
yeah, that one was doomed. That was
01:32:32
doomed. But the last one was really
01:32:33
nice. like I got a a friend's house and
01:32:36
you know I had uh Bruno Mars playing you
01:32:39
know getting married and it was really
01:32:41
nice and gave her a ring. I had had
01:32:43
roses on the ground all this nice stuff.
01:32:45
Uh and then two months later she rings
01:32:47
rings me up and says yeah no it's not
01:32:49
working. Keeps the ring and [ __ ] off.
01:32:53
And I'm like you [ __ ] Anyway, that
01:32:55
took me three years to actually get over
01:32:57
that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for bringing
01:32:58
that up as well. Sorry. Anyway, no, it's
01:33:01
it's relationships and they happen and
01:33:03
and I could have either have have jumped
01:33:05
onto the next one and not learned
01:33:08
anything or took a step back like I did
01:33:11
um and and start reassessing my my
01:33:14
values. What do I want? Where do I want
01:33:15
to go? And and from then that's when
01:33:18
I've started to do a bunch of things for
01:33:20
myself, keep myself happy, keep myself
01:33:22
active, and eventually something will
01:33:24
come up. Someone
01:33:27
Yeah. Well, I mean, the right person
01:33:28
will come along when the when the time's
01:33:30
right. What What about um Yeah. And tell
01:33:33
me to piss off if you don't want to
01:33:34
answer this, but in terms of um sexual
01:33:36
activity when you were when you're
01:33:38
disabled in the way you are, 600 now is
01:33:40
a lot to pay, but you know, you get what
01:33:42
you get. Yeah. Does everything like does
01:33:44
everything function normally or do you
01:33:46
have signs or Yeah. Look, if you could
01:33:49
just
01:33:52
uh everyone's different um much like um
01:33:55
sexual preferences, you know. Um and I
01:33:59
won't go into naming a few of them, but
01:34:01
um that's that's very different as well.
01:34:05
Um mine is again with with the touching
01:34:08
and the feeling. I'm very touchy feely.
01:34:12
I I enjoy physical contact. I enjoy
01:34:15
kissing. I enjoy hugging. I enjoy all
01:34:17
the things that make a relationship a
01:34:19
relationship. Um there are other guys
01:34:22
that I know and girls who don't like all
01:34:26
of the things that I like. They like
01:34:27
different things. There's a story of one
01:34:29
guy I know who um couldn't really get
01:34:32
arousal with his partner
01:34:34
uh until they tried things that they
01:34:36
weren't doing prior to him breaking his
01:34:38
neck. M uh so she started dressing up
01:34:41
and it actually helped their sexual
01:34:43
relationship actually helped their
01:34:45
relationship as well. Um cuz you got to
01:34:47
remember the two sides to the
01:34:50
relationship. There's the the physical
01:34:51
the sexual side as well as the normal
01:34:54
everyday friendship side. And you've got
01:34:56
to have a very strong I believe you've
01:34:58
got to have a very strong friendship to
01:35:01
allow for everything else to to blossom
01:35:03
and continue on as well. But for me
01:35:06
personally, yeah, it's it's hard. It was
01:35:08
harder at the beginning because I felt I
01:35:11
was different. And again, me getting in
01:35:13
the way of me when I got out of the way,
01:35:16
that stopped being a problem. I don't
01:35:19
know if the girls had a problem with it,
01:35:21
but no one ever told me, but I thought
01:35:24
it was a serious problem.
01:35:28
There's so many good insights here. Um
01:35:30
the the main one is not not, and it's a
01:35:32
recurring theme, is just not to get in
01:35:33
the way of yourself. Um, you do some
01:35:36
keynote speaking and stuff. Is this one
01:35:37
of the sort of like key messages that
01:35:39
you try and drive home? This is a
01:35:40
keynote speak right here and you're all
01:35:43
paying. It's a TED talk. It's a Dom
01:35:45
talk. Um, yeah, it's it it varies. Yeah,
01:35:49
it varies because again, it's having
01:35:53
like comedy, it's having the edges for
01:35:55
somebody to grasp onto. And if the the
01:35:57
theme is cars, then I would angle a lot
01:36:00
of what I talked about to be about cars
01:36:02
or the direction of cars or how I've had
01:36:04
over 100 cars or because I have um or
01:36:08
something that's going to give them
01:36:09
those edges. If it was about
01:36:11
relationships, I would form most of it
01:36:13
to be about the relationship. So, but
01:36:15
you've done public speaking as well, so
01:36:16
you know that. Okay. Well, for anyone
01:36:18
that's like facing their own massive
01:36:20
adversity like right now listening to
01:36:22
this, whatever that may be, like what
01:36:23
sort of advice could you offer? What
01:36:25
would you say the the most simplest
01:36:27
thing? Um I mean obviously that that
01:36:31
take home of of you know get out of your
01:36:33
own way. Um but just say yes to stuff.
01:36:36
Saying yes to things and
01:36:40
even before you know what it is, you
01:36:41
know, obviously positive, not you know,
01:36:43
take this. Um but you know, you got to
01:36:46
look at the consequences and if they're
01:36:48
going to be positive consequences and
01:36:50
yeah, it's going to be a challenge. It's
01:36:51
going to be hard, but it's going to be
01:36:53
good. and and the outcome is going to be
01:36:55
something great. And then you got a cool
01:36:57
story. Remember that time I set fire in
01:36:58
my hand? No.
01:37:01
Um you you remember that time you you
01:37:04
did London Marathon and you were told
01:37:05
off and told you couldn't do the
01:37:06
squirrel set and you flew the other side
01:37:08
of the world and they dropped you and
01:37:09
you did did this and it makes a great
01:37:11
story. No great story ever started with
01:37:13
where everything went perfectly and I
01:37:15
had a salad. No, it was hey I had a
01:37:17
beer. Hold my beer. I'm going to do and
01:37:19
and then a great story unfolds. Yeah.
01:37:21
Yeah, it's like we were talking about
01:37:22
earlier like if you if you if you want
01:37:25
to be a partyier and you just go to
01:37:26
parties every weekend, there will be the
01:37:27
occasional standout moment, but
01:37:29
generally the weekends will roll into
01:37:30
one. Um but if you do these like
01:37:32
pinnacle events like you're doing and
01:37:34
these fun out of the box things, it just
01:37:36
makes life more interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
01:37:39
If you could um speak to the Lee War of
01:37:42
1989 um just after the accident, what
01:37:46
words of encouragement would you share
01:37:47
with him? He wouldn't listen. He's a
01:37:49
dick. Dick to [ __ ] off. He would. [ __ ]
01:37:52
off, old man. Yeah. Yeah. What the [ __ ]
01:37:53
do you know? Cuz he wouldn't want to
01:37:54
know anything about me. I could wear a
01:37:56
shirt saying all the things I've done.
01:37:57
So, [ __ ] his shirt. [ __ ] off. Um Yeah.
01:38:00
It's It's tough cuz
01:38:03
I I would have to befriend me first. Uh
01:38:07
and it wouldn't be what I would say to
01:38:09
the young me. It would be what he saw. M
01:38:13
he would he would have to see the things
01:38:15
that he wanted to be to then want to do
01:38:19
the things that I do to be him, not not
01:38:23
to be me. Um I remember a guy I I
01:38:26
actually did look at in the spine unit
01:38:29
and wanted to be like um he had this
01:38:32
terrible mullet with with, you know,
01:38:33
blonded hair. Oh, it was it looking back
01:38:36
at it was horrendous. But I wanted to
01:38:38
be who he was, not him. He had the cool
01:38:43
XW Falcon. He had um it was called the
01:38:46
[ __ ] posy, you know. It had the sticker
01:38:47
on the back. Terrible. Has an age. Oh, I
01:38:51
know. Neither is his mullet. Um but he
01:38:54
was what it would he didn't care about
01:38:56
people what they saw, what they thought
01:38:58
about him. He didn't care about how he
01:39:01
dressed. He was he was him. So I wanted
01:39:03
to be him. But this is also 16-year-old
01:39:05
me. And when you go back to the the 80s,
01:39:08
that's that that's coolness.
01:39:10
Um, he was the John Bonjovi um, for lack
01:39:14
of a better term. Uh, and I I I would
01:39:17
have to almost be that guy for for
01:39:20
younger 1990 Lee to to to listen to me.
01:39:24
And even then, I don't think he'd listen
01:39:26
very well. Oh, how long was it before
01:39:29
you started
01:39:31
um, dreaming as your as your actual
01:39:34
state? Oh, yeah. So, I heard that's
01:39:37
weird. I read a podcast about this and
01:39:39
apparently um it can take some people
01:39:41
years, but when you start dreaming
01:39:44
dreaming yourself as you are, that's
01:39:45
when you've finally accepted it. It It's
01:39:48
funny you say because even now I still
01:39:51
can dream I'm in a chair and dream I'm
01:39:54
walking. Dreaming I'm flying, dreaming
01:39:56
I'm naked. Got all those kind of cool
01:39:58
dreams. Um appropriately naked. Um
01:40:02
yeah, just roll around your chair with
01:40:04
your wing hanging. Yeah. Yeah. Woo. No,
01:40:06
not that. No more leather things and and
01:40:08
sober. Yeah. I don't know. It's a dream.
01:40:10
Um
01:40:11
and a lot of the dreams nowadays um are
01:40:16
where I'm in a chair but I can walk but
01:40:20
it's really hard. And it sounds so dumb.
01:40:23
It's like it's a dream. I can literally
01:40:24
do whatever I want. And I know that
01:40:26
because sometimes it's a it's a lucid
01:40:28
dream and I can change the dream and do
01:40:30
things in the dream and yet
01:40:32
still I can walk but it's hard. So, it's
01:40:36
not I just walk or I'm just in a chair.
01:40:39
Um I in fact I can't remember a dream
01:40:42
where I was just in a
01:40:44
chair. Uh I I probably have um but yeah,
01:40:48
most of the the the dreams though I
01:40:50
remember and especially even even later
01:40:52
ones uh dreaming and walking is hard. So
01:40:54
I'll get up to do something but it's oh
01:40:56
it's really tough to walk over there and
01:40:58
then come back and yeah continue on.
01:41:01
It's interesting. Eh so interesting. Do
01:41:03
you do you hold like a a a space even
01:41:06
like a tiny space in in your heart that
01:41:08
during your lifetime like some medical
01:41:10
advancements or technological
01:41:11
advancements would come along that would
01:41:13
allow you to walk again? Yeah. So I was
01:41:15
involved with this company called Rex
01:41:17
Bionics and um unfortunately they
01:41:20
they've shut down now um but amazing
01:41:23
group of people that started this
01:41:24
robotic exoskeleton. Uh, and I was lucky
01:41:27
enough, I think it was about eight years
01:41:29
ago, pardon me, eight, nine years ago, I
01:41:33
was in an 8th century castle in Biona,
01:41:35
Spain, walking in an exoskeleton using a
01:41:40
skull cap that took my messages of
01:41:42
trying to walk and sent them Bluetooth
01:41:44
to a computer that analog digitized and
01:41:47
then sent a signal to the exoskeleton to
01:41:49
walk. I mean, how cool is that? Um, my
01:41:52
god, that's the future. Yeah, I mean
01:41:55
it's like um the wrong trousers like all
01:41:58
over the place Wallace and Grommet. Um
01:42:01
but
01:42:02
it's some people really hold their
01:42:04
breath for it. I'm more of a Christopher
01:42:07
Reeve believer where hey look, I'll help
01:42:10
a situation. I'll do whatever it takes
01:42:12
to to help the progression. Do I want an
01:42:16
injection where there's a 50/50 chance
01:42:18
of me getting worse or walking again?
01:42:19
No. Do I do it 8020? No. 9010? Yeah.
01:42:23
Hey, you're getting close. Because do I
01:42:25
want to be worse? No, I don't want to be
01:42:27
worse. I've come to terms with who I am,
01:42:30
where I am, and what I'm doing that I
01:42:32
don't want to be worse than than where
01:42:33
I'm at. And there's other people who,
01:42:36
when I say holding their breath, they're
01:42:38
not sitting there literally waiting for
01:42:41
their doing things like 30 $40,000 stem
01:42:44
cell research um advancement injections
01:42:47
every month or two or six or whatever.
01:42:49
And it's a lot of money. It's a lot of
01:42:52
effort, a lot of rehab, but that's their
01:42:55
their journey. That that's cool. If it
01:42:58
helps them come to terms and it helps
01:43:00
them get where they're going and maybe
01:43:01
they're walking in, that's fantastic.
01:43:03
Would they have done it without the
01:43:04
injections? I don't know. But for them,
01:43:07
there's no way they would have worked
01:43:08
without it and it's done and it's
01:43:10
fantastic. For me, I just I did try that
01:43:13
earlier on, but then I didn't give it
01:43:15
100%. I went as far as to somebody
01:43:18
saying, "Well, you know, you're not
01:43:19
going to be a functional walker in these
01:43:21
um these legs." I said, "What do you
01:43:23
mean?" And they're like, "Well, look at
01:43:24
how long it takes you to get a few
01:43:25
steps. Um yeah, you you've done great
01:43:28
balance and in a very short space of
01:43:30
time, you've done XY Z." Um they said,
01:43:32
"But you've got to put these on. You've
01:43:34
got to get in and out of the car. You're
01:43:35
not going to walk around the supermarket
01:43:36
with them. Why are you doing this?" And
01:43:38
I was like, "That's it. Done. I'm out
01:43:40
then. Drop the mic. I'm I'm because it's
01:43:43
the why. It's the goal. It's the the
01:43:45
reason. It's the to what end. And that's
01:43:48
what I do all the time now is like
01:43:50
coming here with you. I'm like, "This is
01:43:51
going to be fantastic. It's going to be
01:43:53
fun." Um I'm just content. I'm not
01:43:55
talent.
01:43:57
But but it's it's got to be entertaining
01:43:59
and I'm going to get something out of it
01:44:00
as much as you are. And and hopefully
01:44:04
people watching, listening, whatever,
01:44:06
are going to get something as well. And
01:44:08
that's why I'm doing it. It's It's not a
01:44:10
personal goal. I'm not getting paid
01:44:12
much. It's only a couple hundred
01:44:13
dollars, isn't it, to be here? Is it?
01:44:16
Oh, hey guys, can we wrap up a business
01:44:19
card for Lee? He wants payment. That
01:44:22
guy. Um, so it's it's about others.
01:44:25
Yeah. Well, sorry if this has been less
01:44:27
fun than what you hope for. I I found it
01:44:29
really inspiring. Um, and interesting
01:44:31
and informative and I've got a lot out
01:44:33
of it. I'm sure a lot of other people
01:44:34
will too, but in terms of lols, I don't
01:44:36
know. It's probably been on the the
01:44:37
lighter side than what you imagined. is
01:44:41
I again the prep that I did for the show
01:44:43
was incredible. Uh well, you did ask me
01:44:46
when we when we were DMing, you said,
01:44:47
"Oh, what do I need to prep?" And I'm
01:44:48
like, "You just just turn up. I'll do
01:44:50
I'll do the heavy lifting." So, I'm I'm
01:44:52
totally drunk and it's made it a lot
01:44:54
easier. You know, drunk on the way here.
01:44:56
I was quickly I've got to skull this.
01:44:58
You know, you're driving. Um no, you you
01:45:00
have you've done all the prep. You've
01:45:02
done all the questions and it's been
01:45:03
phenomenally easy. Thank you so much.
01:45:05
What is you've made a few um alcohol
01:45:07
junks. What's your relationship like
01:45:08
with alcohol these days? Oh, these days
01:45:10
is is fantastic. It never used to be. Um
01:45:13
again, people through the um B of
01:45:16
education, I learned that a lot of
01:45:19
learning goes on with parrots, you know,
01:45:21
and children are parrots. They learn
01:45:23
through watching and listening, not what
01:45:25
you teach them. They're not cats and
01:45:27
dogs. They're parrots. And they they say
01:45:29
things at the most inappropriate time
01:45:32
that you've said ages ago. and and and
01:45:35
they know it's inappropriate and they're
01:45:36
just like like a tree falls down and
01:45:38
it's been cut down and this this
01:45:40
four-year-old says, "Oh, fuck." You
01:45:42
know, and it's like it's actually
01:45:44
perfectly appropriate, but it's also not
01:45:47
appropriate. Um, and that's what I've
01:45:49
learned is that um through through what
01:45:53
I can I can do and and teaching and
01:45:55
learning and and taking away, if I can
01:45:57
take something away and somebody else
01:45:58
can have a take away, then that's
01:46:00
fantastic. M uh coming coming here that
01:46:02
the the the drinking jokes, you know,
01:46:05
jokes aside, my father was an alcoholic.
01:46:07
He was a drug user and um that helped me
01:46:11
to a degree get involved in drugs very
01:46:14
early on. Um and abuse them as well. Um
01:46:19
but then that also helped me move
01:46:21
through that to the other end. And I I
01:46:24
drink on occasion now. In fact, last
01:46:26
year I can probably count on it was my
01:46:29
hands, fingers, fingers, and toes how
01:46:31
many times I touched alcohol in the
01:46:32
whole year, right? Because unless
01:46:34
there's a celebration, like you say,
01:46:36
that party every weekend, unless there's
01:46:38
a celebration or reason, why why would I
01:46:40
do it? You I've got alcohol at home in
01:46:43
the cupboard and I think, God, as a
01:46:44
16-year-old, that wouldn't last a
01:46:46
weekend. Um, but it's it's sat there for
01:46:48
ages because there's just not a good
01:46:50
enough reason. And if there's a good
01:46:52
enough reason, I I'll touch it and I'll
01:46:53
drink it. Yeah. If you're drinking 20
01:46:55
times a year, then yeah, it's not even
01:46:57
not even a thing in your life. No. No.
01:46:59
But I make jokes because because I can.
01:47:01
Yeah. Um if it offends people, I again
01:47:04
I'm absolutely sorry about that and I'm
01:47:06
sorry about lots of things I say and do.
01:47:08
Um but I don't do it to offend people. I
01:47:11
say it because it it doesn't hold me. It
01:47:13
doesn't hold a place in my heart that it
01:47:15
it tears me up inside. Even talking
01:47:17
about suicide, the only reason why I
01:47:19
don't bring up some things is because it
01:47:21
does for somebody else. and it does hold
01:47:24
a place for somebody else and it does
01:47:25
hurt them when they hear about it and I
01:47:28
I wouldn't want to do that on purpose
01:47:30
for somebody else.
01:47:35
I reckon that's a good place to Is there
01:47:36
anything that that's been unsaid?
01:47:38
Anything that you hoped that we'd talk
01:47:40
about today that we haven't? Wow. No,
01:47:42
cuz I wasn't allowed to do any prep.
01:47:45
Uh, no. We we've actually touched on on
01:47:49
many areas. Um, I I do want to talk to
01:47:52
you later about bookw writing though
01:47:53
because I really want to get my book out
01:47:55
of the way. Um, I really want to write a
01:47:57
book cuz your your book was fantastic.
01:47:59
Oh, thank you. I really I really want to
01:48:01
write a book. It's been on my mind for
01:48:03
so long and I'm super lazy so I haven't
01:48:05
done it. I've done like 30 pages and
01:48:07
then I just kind of like and then don't
01:48:10
do anything. Well, hopefully mentioning
01:48:12
it now in this podcast is sort of like
01:48:14
manifesting in a way and maybe one of
01:48:16
the publishers will hear it or and think
01:48:18
this guy's got a good story. Can I get a
01:48:19
ghost writer? If there's a ghost writer
01:48:22
out there, in fact, just someone who can
01:48:23
write it. Can I just send stuff? I I
01:48:25
would um I would ghost Gh ghost writers
01:48:28
are [ __ ] great. Like they'll sit down
01:48:29
with you for like 10 hours. They'll get
01:48:30
your story and then they'll write it. Um
01:48:32
but then you'll read the manuscript and
01:48:34
they do a fantastic job, but you'll be
01:48:36
like I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't
01:48:37
phrase it that way. I think you've got
01:48:39
such a such a big voice yourself. It
01:48:42
would be an injustice for anyone else to
01:48:44
write your story. Thank you. Thank you.
01:48:45
I have read a lot of um biographies,
01:48:48
autobiographies or um yeah and those
01:48:50
abouts and some of them yeah read
01:48:52
terrible don't they? you read them and
01:48:54
you're just like, "Oh, this is painful
01:48:56
to read." And then others um I'm not,
01:48:58
you know, barking up to Richard
01:49:00
Branson's tree or anything, but um has
01:49:02
very easy to read. And there's been a
01:49:04
couple of others. Um I got a friend Dave
01:49:06
Mack who's in a chair and he's like, you
01:49:08
know, um what's his uh uh it's all about
01:49:11
the jazz. Um his fantastic book. Um and
01:49:14
it's very easy to read. It's story
01:49:16
lines, it's chronological order, it also
01:49:19
backtracks a little. And they're easy to
01:49:21
read. And that's what I want mine to be.
01:49:23
Have you thought of a name? Oh, yeah.
01:49:25
Yeah. I thought Yeah. You got to have a
01:49:27
title first, right? Yeah. Uh, push
01:49:29
yourself. I thought it would be funny.
01:49:31
Oh, I love that. I thought it would be
01:49:32
funny. That's good. Um, there's a quote
01:49:34
I wanted to end with. Uh, this is from
01:49:36
you. I don't know what a bucket list is.
01:49:39
Just get stuff done when you get a
01:49:41
chance. Keep believing. Keep moving.
01:49:43
Keep achieving. You got this. Wow. Thank
01:49:46
you. You proud of yourself? Thank you. I
01:49:48
I am. Thanks, Dom. That's
01:49:51
A really cool quote. Yeah. Hope there's
01:49:54
a lot of people that have heard this
01:49:55
today that feel lazy or you know a
01:49:57
slight sense of shame about how little
01:49:59
they've done with with their life.
01:50:02
That's mean. No, it's terrible. No, but
01:50:04
just if it can be I mean if it can be
01:50:06
used as fuel to do more and realize
01:50:08
[ __ ] you know, like the saying from
01:50:09
Shaw Shank Redemption, get busy living
01:50:11
or get busy dying stuff. Absolutely.
01:50:13
Absolutely. And everyone's Everest looks
01:50:15
different. Um, yeah, somebody might
01:50:18
might listen to this and be like, "Oh, I
01:50:19
have to go run a marathon." It's like,
01:50:21
doesn't have to be a marathon. It
01:50:22
doesn't even have to be a 5K. It can be
01:50:24
run to the shops. It can be a walk to
01:50:26
the shops if you don't normally do it.
01:50:27
It's just just get up as you say. I love
01:50:30
that. Shame. I can't think of what seven
01:50:33
hells of [ __ ] you had to crawl through
01:50:34
to get. No one looks at a man's shoes.
01:50:37
But get busy dying or get busy living.
01:50:39
That's It's that simple. But you love a
01:50:41
movie quote, don't you? I so do. Don't
01:50:43
get me started. Yeah. Don't get me
01:50:45
started. Argyle had it best, wasn't it?
01:50:48
Welcome to the party, pal. It's a
01:50:50
Christmas movie. It's a Christmas movie.
01:50:52
Oh, die hard. And Lee War, thank you so
01:50:54
much for coming on the podcast today.
01:50:55
You're a great human. Thank you so much,
01:50:57
Dom. Really appreciate it. Thank you.