00:00:00
4:00 a.m. in the morning outside our
00:00:02
front gate with loud speakers and drums
00:00:05
yelling abuse at me and my children.
00:00:07
>> There is very limited information about
00:00:08
you online
00:00:09
>> by design.
00:00:10
>> Why did you agree to do the podcast
00:00:11
today?
00:00:12
>> They've never met me. They've never seen
00:00:13
me and they start to have opinions about
00:00:15
things.
00:00:15
>> Why do you think the public don't sort
00:00:16
of connect with him?
00:00:17
>> I have never met anybody that has met
00:00:19
Christopher and hasn't been able to
00:00:21
recognize that he is actually genuinely
00:00:24
authentic. What you're led to believe is
00:00:26
not the truth.
00:00:26
>> It must just be infuriating for you at
00:00:28
times. has been a bit lonely.
00:00:30
>> There can be weeks at a time that maybe
00:00:31
Christopher and I don't have good
00:00:33
meaningful contact and after all of this
00:00:34
is over. It's him and me.
00:00:36
>> You're both married, right?
00:00:37
>> We've been together since we were 15.
00:00:39
And I just know that I'm the love of his
00:00:41
life and he's a love of mine.
00:00:44
>> Amanda Luxen, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:47
>> Dominic Harvey, thank you for having me.
00:00:49
>> Full names.
00:00:50
>> I know. I love that. And I'm not your
00:00:52
mother telling you off either. So,
00:00:53
>> she's No, you're not my my mother.
00:00:55
You're probably um just old enough to be
00:00:57
my older sister.
00:00:58
>> Possibly, but I think we're in the same
00:01:00
Yeah. generation.
00:01:02
>> Same decade. Now, I've I've done so much
00:01:04
re there is very limited information
00:01:06
about you online. Um by design.
00:01:08
>> By design. Yes.
00:01:10
>> But one thing um that's quite common
00:01:12
about you that I've read is that you you
00:01:14
describe yourself as an introvert and
00:01:15
your husband Christopher Luxen, the
00:01:17
extrovert in the relationship.
00:01:18
>> Absolutely.
00:01:19
>> But we've been yelling for like 20
00:01:20
minutes prior to just beginning this
00:01:22
podcast now. Um I would I would not put
00:01:25
you as an extra um an introvert at all.
00:01:27
>> Yeah. And that's a a common uh comment.
00:01:30
I'm a gregarious um introvert. And you
00:01:33
know, having worked with MyersBriggs a
00:01:35
lot, introversion is often
00:01:36
misunderstood. Introversion is really
00:01:38
about where do you get your energies
00:01:40
from? Where do you re-energize yourself?
00:01:42
And so say Christopher and I are out for
00:01:44
an evening for example, and I've spent
00:01:46
my whole time, you know, doing my
00:01:49
non-preferred self, which is, you know,
00:01:50
putting out a lot of energy externally.
00:01:53
Um, I'll come home and I'm exhausted.
00:01:55
Like I'll fall asleep in the car and
00:01:56
it's like he comes home as an extrovert
00:01:59
who loves that and he'll be like
00:02:01
buzzing. He'll need to have some
00:02:03
television to calm down or you know call
00:02:05
someone on the telephone. So um it's
00:02:08
really that and it's actually about your
00:02:09
thinking process. So you know introverts
00:02:11
they'll think think and then they'll
00:02:13
talk and then they'll think. Extroverts
00:02:15
think as they're talking. They'll talk
00:02:17
talk and then they'll stop and think. So
00:02:18
it's more about thinking processes
00:02:20
rather than what we typically think
00:02:22
extroversion and introversion is. But
00:02:24
yeah, I need my me time
00:02:26
>> cuz having met you both now, I I think
00:02:29
you're both have a chat.
00:02:31
>> You both got but you sort of saying that
00:02:33
you you're you've got a limited social
00:02:35
battery and it sort of drains
00:02:37
>> and his sort of recharges as he
00:02:40
>> That's a really good way of doing it. I
00:02:42
mean I have an extended battery now.
00:02:44
I've actually put two batteries together
00:02:47
because I've had to um but certainly if
00:02:49
I look back say as a younger person in
00:02:51
my teenage years um you know those were
00:02:54
more difficult situations for me but
00:02:56
I've had to learn a lot of engagement is
00:02:59
actually skill-based as well. Um and I
00:03:02
do tend to find I can spend an evening
00:03:04
and um if I just ask questions then um
00:03:07
people are really happy to you know
00:03:09
answer questions and that keeps
00:03:11
conversation going and produces
00:03:13
interesting things and yeah so I don't
00:03:15
really have to talk about myself which
00:03:16
is great. Yeah.
00:03:17
>> Yeah. Well given um that you're sort of
00:03:20
the the lady behind the man in this in
00:03:22
this situation or at this chapter of
00:03:24
your life and um you have been
00:03:25
relatively quiet by design. Why why did
00:03:28
you agree to do the podcast today? Oh,
00:03:30
um Christopher had done a podcast with
00:03:32
you recently um and really enjoyed the
00:03:35
podcast. Um and so he said, "Look, um it
00:03:39
was a good podcast." And sometimes, um
00:03:42
people actually hearing from me and and
00:03:44
what I've got to say, um just distills
00:03:48
or dispels some of the things that
00:03:50
people start to build up in their mind.
00:03:52
Um they've never met me, they've never
00:03:54
seen me, and they start to have opinions
00:03:56
about things. And um so sometimes just a
00:03:58
really nice chat like this, they get to
00:04:00
know me as a person, get to know a
00:04:03
little bit about my history and who I
00:04:04
am. Um and start to understand that
00:04:07
maybe what they uh have been led to
00:04:09
believe may not be the truth. And if
00:04:11
that's it and and I have lots of things
00:04:14
to say. I'm quite opinionated.
00:04:17
>> Well, this is going to be good.
00:04:18
>> It is. It is. It's funny. I try I try
00:04:21
not to do it. But God, we're all guilty
00:04:22
of it, aren't we? Of like seeing people
00:04:24
and making judgments about people we
00:04:25
don't even know. Yeah,
00:04:27
>> but it is nice to show another side to a
00:04:29
person. So, who is Amanda Luxon?
00:04:32
>> Yeah, who am I? Um, yeah, I'm I'm
00:04:35
obviously a mother of two. Um, my career
00:04:38
has been round education. I started as
00:04:41
in teaching and then um start up my own
00:04:43
consultancy firm. Uh, I would work with
00:04:46
uh organizations that needed say some
00:04:49
work in communication or some of those
00:04:51
HR subjects. Um, I've worked a lot with
00:04:54
MyersBriggs Type Indicator. I've
00:04:56
actually trained and taught in quite a
00:04:59
few of the personality profiles, but
00:05:01
MyersBriggs is the one I love the most
00:05:03
cuz I think it really is goes across
00:05:06
work and home. Um, is very easy to
00:05:09
understand and has lots of applications
00:05:11
for people. So, in the courses that I'll
00:05:13
run, people will start the day thinking,
00:05:16
I just can't be bothered with this. And
00:05:18
if they can leave excited about
00:05:20
something that they can change um or
00:05:22
understand more about their partner or
00:05:24
work, then that's that's a win for me.
00:05:27
>> So, what is MyersBriggs and why is it
00:05:29
important?
00:05:30
>> Oh, yeah. So, it's just a it's a it's a
00:05:33
I'll call it a personality uh profiler.
00:05:36
It's probably one of the oldest ones
00:05:37
that are is around. Um and it's really a
00:05:41
tool, you know, you go through and you
00:05:43
answer a series of questions. The most
00:05:45
important thing is that you then work
00:05:47
with an instructor afterwards to help
00:05:49
you decode that. You can do those things
00:05:52
online and you get a we blurb and you
00:05:54
read through it and it's like yeah, you
00:05:56
don't really understand what it's help
00:05:59
what information it's giving you and how
00:06:00
it's going to help you. So, and really
00:06:02
it just helps you understand, you know,
00:06:05
um why does my husband get into the car
00:06:08
and just drive without actually knowing
00:06:10
where he's going, you know, or something
00:06:12
like that? Or why does my um why does my
00:06:15
partner um leave everything to the last
00:06:18
minute? Or why are they really good at
00:06:20
starting projects but not finishing
00:06:22
projects? And so sometimes I find that
00:06:24
if we've got a framework or an education
00:06:26
around it, it kind of breaks down a lot
00:06:29
of um angst, a lot of conflict um
00:06:32
because you sit there and you go, "Oh
00:06:35
yeah, babe, I know what you're doing and
00:06:38
here's a map so that when we get halfway
00:06:39
to where we're going and you don't know
00:06:40
where to go next, we'll have it." So
00:06:43
it's just a lovely way of enhancing um
00:06:46
communication uh and relationships. And
00:06:48
the other big thing I think that's
00:06:50
important is say I've got a message I
00:06:53
want you to receive. Um, and I'm sitting
00:06:56
here and I want to get you to understand
00:06:58
what I want you to understand. If I give
00:07:01
it to you in the way that is meaningful
00:07:03
to me and I understand, then it might
00:07:07
not be the way that you receive it. You
00:07:08
might not get or understand what I'm
00:07:11
trying to say to you. But if I can go,
00:07:13
oh, you know, he's much more interested
00:07:15
in feelings than um you know, processes
00:07:19
or things like that. So with my
00:07:20
children, if um William is a um was a
00:07:24
big feeler, Olivia, more on the thinking
00:07:27
um continuum. And so if William was, you
00:07:30
know, if I didn't like something,
00:07:31
William would go, I'd say, William, that
00:07:34
makes me incredibly sad that you did
00:07:37
blah blah blah. his little face would go
00:07:40
if id said um William I don't think that
00:07:42
that you know is the right moral thing
00:07:45
for you to do it would he would have
00:07:47
looked at me but it wouldn't have sunk
00:07:49
in in the same way and and the reverse
00:07:51
for Olivia if I say you know I need to
00:07:53
say to her look on principle this is not
00:07:55
the best way to do that and she gets it
00:07:58
so it's tiny little things like that
00:08:00
that you can implement
00:08:01
>> on an everyday basis that goes I want to
00:08:04
enhance my communication and my
00:08:06
understanding of you and by
00:08:07
understanding you from your point of
00:08:09
view. Um, it helps. Yeah. So, I love it.
00:08:11
I love it as a tool. Yeah. And you can
00:08:13
use it in lots of different
00:08:15
environments.
00:08:16
>> Well, it seems to have served you well
00:08:18
from from what I know about you. You've
00:08:19
you've your kids still talk to you on a
00:08:21
regular bas.
00:08:23
My daughter very regularly
00:08:26
>> and I think that's that's really special
00:08:28
when your kids get to an age where they
00:08:30
can make their own decisions and they
00:08:31
can choose to be with you or not be with
00:08:32
you.
00:08:33
>> Wear the matching jammies on Christmas
00:08:34
or not. And they still
00:08:35
>> Oh my gosh. Yes. And Olivia and I still
00:08:37
watch every Christmas Harry Potter from
00:08:39
1 to 8. And um and every night we do
00:08:42
Wordle and Connections together even
00:08:44
though she's a long way away. So, but
00:08:46
isn't that what we isn't that what we
00:08:48
want? Don't we want to get to that stage
00:08:50
where we've put the work in and we've
00:08:53
empowered and encouraged and educated
00:08:55
our kids that, you know, you get to the
00:08:57
stage where you have this lovely
00:08:59
friendship. And I can remember being
00:09:01
walking um in Melbourne with Olivia and
00:09:03
I I just turned to her and I said, "This
00:09:05
is such a special time for me because I
00:09:08
don't need to mother you anymore. Um I
00:09:11
can advise when you need advice like at
00:09:14
2:00 a.m. in the morning when the shower
00:09:15
faucet is spewing water and you don't
00:09:18
know what to do."
00:09:18
>> That's an actual thing that's happened.
00:09:20
>> That is a thing that's happened. Go find
00:09:22
the mains. They're at the front of the
00:09:24
house. The what?
00:09:26
Um but and also I don't have to help you
00:09:28
mother your own children yet. And so
00:09:31
there's this really beautiful
00:09:32
friendship. So she is the one that I can
00:09:34
ring and go, "Oh, I had such a bad day."
00:09:38
And she'll go, "Oh, babe, I'm so sorry.
00:09:41
Tell me about it." You know, and that's
00:09:43
just really lovely. And you know,
00:09:45
William will he'll come down. The other
00:09:47
day I might have done something silly
00:09:49
and managed to let a microwave drop from
00:09:52
a very high um altitude
00:09:55
onto the floor where it became a
00:09:56
trillion pieces.
00:09:57
>> How high did it Did it fall off the
00:09:59
fridge? No.
00:10:00
>> Um yes, the top of the fridge. Yeah.
00:10:02
>> How were you cleaning around it or?
00:10:04
>> Well, no. It was actually in storage and
00:10:05
I just happened to put something on top
00:10:07
of the microwave that was on top of the
00:10:09
fridge and the garage door came up and
00:10:11
took the whole thing off. So, it was
00:10:12
just one of those moments that I perhaps
00:10:14
wasn't thinking clearly when I did that.
00:10:17
Um, but so he comes and he goes, "I know
00:10:20
that that's going to be, you know,
00:10:22
that's going to stress mom." So, he
00:10:24
comes and he goes, "I've got it, Mom."
00:10:26
And so, the next minute he's out there
00:10:27
helping me pull up the hundreds and
00:10:29
thousands of pieces of glass and and and
00:10:32
solving that problem for me. So, that
00:10:34
that's what we want. We want our kids to
00:10:36
to get to that stage. And and by the
00:10:38
way, um they still want to come on
00:10:40
holiday. And I think it's because we do
00:10:43
call holidays so and might pay for a
00:10:46
little bit as they go. I'm sure there's
00:10:48
a few families that are going through
00:10:49
that.
00:10:50
>> That's the thing where you got to throw
00:10:51
in um like carrots or incentives for the
00:10:54
maybe paying for the partners as well if
00:10:56
these partners.
00:10:56
>> That's it. That's it. They want to come
00:10:58
and they want to bring their friends
00:10:59
too. So that's all good. So I love that.
00:11:01
Yeah.
00:11:01
>> So how's life been for you the last
00:11:03
couple of years since Christopher got
00:11:04
the job of prime? Are you are you an
00:11:06
empty neester now? Has it been Has it
00:11:08
been a lonely I guess is what I'm
00:11:09
asking. Oh, look, I think it's
00:11:11
interesting. I'm not an empty neester
00:11:12
because William is still um with us.
00:11:15
However, the decision has been made that
00:11:18
um he will be um finding uh it's it's
00:11:20
time. Um again, being the introvert,
00:11:23
actually, I don't mind time to myself.
00:11:26
That's that's fine. So, I don't have a
00:11:28
big problem with um doing that. William
00:11:30
is around, which is really nice. Um, and
00:11:33
yeah, when there's big periods of time,
00:11:36
um, there can be weeks at a time that
00:11:38
maybe Christopher and I don't have good
00:11:40
meaningful contact. And it's not that
00:11:42
I'm lonely. It's just that you want to
00:11:44
have that contact. Um, but his schedule
00:11:47
is really up and down. He can be um, you
00:11:50
know, one week he can be away three or
00:11:52
four days, one week he can be away too.
00:11:53
So, and and I've got a lot going on in
00:11:55
my own life. So, um, he's not the only
00:11:57
thing in my life. And I I suppose you
00:12:00
just accept it's um it's a limited time,
00:12:02
however many many years or terms it may
00:12:04
be. Um it does have an expiry date on
00:12:06
it.
00:12:07
>> It absolutely does. And that's a really
00:12:09
important point um Don because when we
00:12:11
went into this there were a whole lot of
00:12:13
things that we said this is a season
00:12:16
>> and in this season there's going to be a
00:12:19
whole lot of unexpected things and
00:12:20
there's going to be a whole lot of
00:12:21
things that maybe would happen that
00:12:24
might not happen in another season. um
00:12:28
and that that is all okay. So I'm on the
00:12:31
phone the other night and it's 7 and he
00:12:34
was due home at like you know4 to 8 or
00:12:36
something in from Wellington and so you
00:12:38
know I've done the good thing the fish
00:12:40
pie is sitting there I'm very proud of
00:12:42
the fish pie I know he likes fish pie
00:12:43
he's had a hard hard week and I said oh
00:12:46
how far away are you and there was sort
00:12:48
of silence on the end of the phone and
00:12:50
he goes
00:12:52
um I'm still in Wellington and it's like
00:12:55
oh okay so I've got a choice don't I can
00:12:58
sit there and go Okay, that's not okay.
00:13:00
Nobody told me. You're not being home
00:13:02
tonight. Blah blah blah blah. Or you
00:13:03
just go that that has no reward, that
00:13:06
kind of behavior. So you just sit there
00:13:08
and you go, okay, the fish pile will be
00:13:10
ready tomorrow night.
00:13:12
>> And so that's you have to enter into
00:13:15
this phase with a huge amount of grace,
00:13:17
which is um things are going to happen
00:13:21
and things are going to be done. Um and
00:13:23
there are points that I draw the line. I
00:13:24
draw the line at this is a big house.
00:13:27
This is the kitchen. you do not need to
00:13:30
take that very important call with a
00:13:32
very important person sitting on my
00:13:34
couch. So, would you mind removing
00:13:36
yourself to your very nice study and
00:13:39
continuing it there? And of course, he
00:13:40
hasn't even realized because he's
00:13:42
sitting there. The phone call comes. So,
00:13:43
you know, you then say, "I'm sorry, move
00:13:45
yourself through." Um, but um yeah, no,
00:13:48
generally you just remain very flexible
00:13:50
because you have very little control of
00:13:54
things that happen to you. So the only
00:13:57
thing you can really control is your
00:14:00
sort of inner sphere and your inner
00:14:01
circle and you you keep control of that
00:14:04
and just understand that there's a lot
00:14:05
of things that will happen that
00:14:07
>> um and you just don't engage with that.
00:14:09
Yeah.
00:14:10
>> Has it been a big adjustment for you?
00:14:12
He's done some big jobs before this,
00:14:13
right? Uni Lever New Zealand they're big
00:14:16
jobs that require big hours and stuff
00:14:18
but I suppose nothing like this.
00:14:20
>> Yeah. So um yes definitely you know up
00:14:24
at 5 to bed at 12 is a little more
00:14:26
extensive and I think the constant um
00:14:30
there is no restbite with regards to
00:14:34
prime ministerial duties because he's on
00:14:36
the whole time um and then when he's not
00:14:39
he's kind of coming up with big ideas
00:14:41
for me to go and implement somewhere so
00:14:43
because his mind is continually moving
00:14:46
and solving problems. Um so there's that
00:14:48
aspect of it. Um I think we've we've had
00:14:52
a lot of change in our life and um so
00:14:55
we're not new to change and I think what
00:14:58
you do is you approach everything with
00:15:00
um what is it that is going to be good
00:15:03
and we can get out of this and there's
00:15:04
always bad things to everything but you
00:15:07
go would we have changed the situation?
00:15:10
No. So let's embrace it. So, um, yeah,
00:15:13
there's lots of things that keep coming
00:15:15
at us and there's a number of things
00:15:17
that are definitely downsides and
00:15:19
upsides, but it's the journey and we
00:15:23
made the decision together to do this.
00:15:25
And at the core of that was the the
00:15:28
mission to really give back and and
00:15:31
serve because he gave up quite a good
00:15:34
and lucrative career overseas. And um so
00:15:38
we we had choices as to what we could
00:15:40
have done.
00:15:41
>> Uh and it was our choice um that we
00:15:44
wanted New Zealand to be a children's
00:15:46
home and that he could yeah give back
00:15:48
and use his really unique set of very
00:15:52
accomplished skills to actually give
00:15:54
back cuz there's not a lot of people
00:15:55
that actually want to leave what they're
00:15:57
doing to come and work in government.
00:15:59
Why would you why would you I know I
00:16:02
know um I know you guys are really good
00:16:03
friends with um John and Brona Key and
00:16:06
I've had John on the podcast and
00:16:07
>> I forget what the amount was but he was
00:16:09
telling me how much um Meil Lynch
00:16:11
>> tried to offer him to stay and rather
00:16:13
than come back here and have a crack at
00:16:15
politics and I said to him WHY WOULD YOU
00:16:16
NOT DO IT?
00:16:17
>> IT was like 6 million a year or
00:16:19
something crazy like that.
00:16:20
>> Yeah.
00:16:21
>> People that do this job do it because
00:16:22
they they they love New Zealand and they
00:16:24
want the best for New Zealand.
00:16:25
>> Yeah. If you have if you are not a
00:16:26
career politician and you haven't lived
00:16:28
and worked in and and just come up
00:16:30
through the Wellington um you know
00:16:32
politician sort of um
00:16:34
>> elevator
00:16:34
>> elevator and you haven't really lived or
00:16:37
worked outside of that. If you've come
00:16:39
in from overseas, then um it has to be a
00:16:42
choice. And it's interesting, lots of
00:16:44
people say, "Oh, um that would be good.
00:16:46
I'd like to do that." But when it
00:16:48
actually comes down to the crunch, um
00:16:51
you know, it's there are very few people
00:16:54
that want to do it, but also very few
00:16:56
people that can that can do it. Um
00:16:58
everybody thinks they can be a leader,
00:17:00
but um leadership is is actually a very
00:17:03
difficult thing and requires quite a lot
00:17:04
of skills and things like that. So yeah,
00:17:08
so he has always I mean New Zealand is
00:17:10
our passion. Um we love New Zealand. We
00:17:12
think New Zealand is amazing and he
00:17:15
really is um an incredible gem to for
00:17:20
what he can bring to the table and has
00:17:23
been incredibly successful in other um
00:17:26
other lives before this. So um yeah,
00:17:29
it's it's good. At the time we're
00:17:31
recording this, it's um March 2026 and
00:17:33
there's been a couple of polls that have
00:17:34
come out this month which have been um
00:17:36
really unfavorable.
00:17:37
>> Yeah.
00:17:39
>> I I've met Christopher a couple of
00:17:40
times. I've had him on the podcast and
00:17:43
anyone that meets him will think he's
00:17:44
will think he's a nice guy. He's he's a
00:17:46
lovely man. Why do you think why do you
00:17:48
think the public don't sort of connect
00:17:49
with him or see that from what we see on
00:17:51
the TV? Well, I could give you a really
00:17:53
glib answer to that or I could give you
00:17:55
a real answer.
00:17:58
And and it's a really interesting um
00:18:00
question, Dom, and in fact, one of the
00:18:02
things that amazes me is that um the
00:18:06
most common comment I would get from
00:18:08
people and I spend a lot of time out in
00:18:11
the community with people and most New
00:18:14
Zealanders wouldn't know the role that I
00:18:15
actually play, but I spend a lot of time
00:18:18
engaging particularly in overseas and
00:18:20
and as much as I can here and and I love
00:18:23
doing that. Um, but people will say to
00:18:26
me, "Oh my gosh, um, I listened to, you
00:18:29
know, Christopher speak last week or I
00:18:31
was introduced to him and and they'll
00:18:33
go, I'm blown away." And they'll go,
00:18:36
"Why didn't I know this?"
00:18:38
>> Um, and this is this is this is not a
00:18:42
political response. This is a a very
00:18:44
deep personal response because it
00:18:46
affects the person that I love the most
00:18:48
in all the world. you know, I we've been
00:18:51
together, known each other sort of since
00:18:52
we were 15, and I know this man through
00:18:55
and through. And I think that one of the
00:18:57
biggest problems we've got in New
00:18:59
Zealand is that we're a small country.
00:19:01
So, if you think about how do New
00:19:03
Zealanders actually get their
00:19:04
information, there's relatively, if you
00:19:06
stay away from the the Looney Tunes and
00:19:09
the con, you know, conspiracy, um
00:19:12
there's a relatively few amounts of
00:19:15
mechanisms for disseminating information
00:19:17
out. And so, you know, if you go to the
00:19:20
US, you go, "Okay, um, if I'm a
00:19:24
Democrat, then, um, I'm going to sit and
00:19:26
watch CNN and they will reinforce all of
00:19:30
my values and thoughts, um, and I can go
00:19:32
away feeling good if, you know, if you
00:19:35
go to Fox, then they'll tell you that
00:19:38
um, the current president has won the
00:19:40
war, even if he hasn't."
00:19:42
>> It's an echo chamber thing that we hear
00:19:44
about.
00:19:44
>> It is. It is. and but you know that you
00:19:47
know that that's their alliances and
00:19:48
they make it very clear but we have a
00:19:50
much smaller system of disseminating
00:19:53
that information and I actually feel as
00:19:56
though New Zealanders are somewhat given
00:19:59
a disservice because
00:20:01
there's the information that comes up is
00:20:04
quite a selective piece of information
00:20:06
and so and it's chosen by people and we
00:20:10
believe that what's been given to us is
00:20:13
the full story. M
00:20:14
>> um we believe that it's the correct
00:20:17
story and we believe it's factual and it
00:20:20
doesn't have a um you know a an agenda
00:20:24
or a bias by anybody. Um, but I can
00:20:27
sometimes go, "Oh, were they at the same
00:20:30
thing I was at?" Because in fact, this
00:20:34
was a really great event or a really
00:20:35
great occasion, but what's reported is
00:20:38
this tiny little, you know, petty sort
00:20:40
of thing on the side. And New Zealanders
00:20:42
miss out. And I don't think that they
00:20:46
are afforded the respect or the ability
00:20:49
to be given all the information um to
00:20:52
make their own decisions.
00:20:54
They may still decide not to or to like
00:20:58
um Christopher, but they're only given a
00:21:00
piece of the story. It's a carefully
00:21:02
crafted image that is presented because
00:21:07
um all the amazing things that are
00:21:09
happening and all the good things that
00:21:11
are happening are not actually um
00:21:13
report. That message doesn't get
00:21:15
through. And that's why when you meet
00:21:16
him, you go, "Wow, this guy's funny.
00:21:19
He's intelligent. He is very
00:21:22
knowledgeable, very personable, and
00:21:24
you're kind of shocked because what
00:21:25
you're led to believe is not the truth.
00:21:27
And I think we don't have any recourse
00:21:30
on that. There's no way of us coming
00:21:32
back and saying, "Hold on, that article
00:21:34
was total baloney." Um, and you
00:21:37
purposely set that up. We we can't do
00:21:39
that cuz it's distracting and we want to
00:21:42
continue to focus, well, not we, they
00:21:44
want to continue to focus on the
00:21:46
important things. So I think that's
00:21:47
probably the biggest problem because I
00:21:49
have never met anybody that has met
00:21:52
Christopher and hasn't been able to
00:21:54
recognize that he is actually genuinely
00:21:59
um authentic integral and super bright
00:22:05
and he's really here to do the job not
00:22:08
for himself. It's he's one of the few
00:22:11
politicians that it's not about him.
00:22:13
It's about really giving back and doing
00:22:15
for New Zealand. And so I think that's
00:22:17
you know the original question was why
00:22:18
don't they know and I think it's because
00:22:21
and as a society we no longer really
00:22:24
have the ability to be critical
00:22:25
thinkers. We information is given into
00:22:27
us and we just accept what is given to
00:22:30
us as the you know as the thing. So
00:22:32
yeah.
00:22:33
>> Yeah. I saw um I I've got a quote
00:22:34
written down here somewhere from um you
00:22:36
on Petra's Gray Areas podcast which I I
00:22:39
loved.
00:22:39
>> That was a fun podcast.
00:22:41
>> Yeah. We seem to have lost the ability
00:22:42
to hold different opinions and still be
00:22:44
friends.
00:22:45
>> Yeah. Yeah, I I firmly believe that and
00:22:47
I think it's the biggest crime of you
00:22:50
know where we live at the moment and you
00:22:52
can see internationally it's getting
00:22:53
worse and worse and worse like when we
00:22:55
lived in the states it was the politics
00:22:58
were much more central and as the years
00:22:59
went by you could just see them being
00:23:01
pulled apart but so if you I guess if
00:23:04
you took a cross-section of every
00:23:05
community and said to people what is it
00:23:08
that you want out of life um what would
00:23:10
they say we want health we want
00:23:12
happiness and most importantly we want
00:23:14
really um strong and bonding
00:23:18
relationships um with friends and
00:23:20
family. Everybody wants exactly the same
00:23:23
thing and there are um there's different
00:23:26
ways of getting there um often. So for
00:23:30
example, if you look at the way um you
00:23:33
know some policies are set down or
00:23:35
whatever, the intent is still to get to
00:23:37
a place. You may disagree with how they
00:23:39
get there, but probably if you look at
00:23:41
it, the end result will be the same
00:23:43
thing. And so as soon as something gets
00:23:46
politicized, like there's some things
00:23:48
that should not be politicized. You
00:23:50
know, climate change shouldn't be
00:23:51
politicized. Everybody should be working
00:23:53
together. Fashion, art, music, they
00:23:54
shouldn't be politicized cuz everybody
00:23:56
should be able to enjoy and have access
00:23:59
to them. So if you took everything away
00:24:03
and you got everybody into a room that
00:24:05
could actually talk, yes, there's
00:24:07
nuances, but if the goal is the same, I
00:24:10
reckon we're actually closer.
00:24:12
the once it's politicized, it tends to
00:24:16
put in big divisions because you have
00:24:18
very loud voices that say they're
00:24:21
speaking for everybody but might be
00:24:24
speaking
00:24:25
>> or they might be on the extremes whereas
00:24:27
on the continuum there's people all the
00:24:30
way along that continuum that may agree
00:24:32
to a point but also agree the other
00:24:34
side. So I think
00:24:36
>> and I think it's a shame because it
00:24:37
prevents meaningful conversation. Um,
00:24:40
and um, if we could actually just sit
00:24:43
down and have um, you know, um, yeah,
00:24:46
put people in a room and take all the
00:24:48
yanks and things out, I think you'd find
00:24:51
there is more similarity than
00:24:52
difference. Yeah.
00:24:53
>> Yeah. There's a Michelle Obama quote
00:24:55
that I mention a lot on the podcast.
00:24:56
It's most people most people are hard to
00:24:58
dislike up close,
00:24:59
>> don't you think? Yeah.
00:25:00
>> 100%.
00:25:01
>> So th those polls the other week, how
00:25:03
like how's that at home? What's going on
00:25:04
behind the scenes? Like there was there
00:25:06
was um just rumors swirling online about
00:25:09
you know Christopher losing his job and
00:25:11
being overtaken by Mark Mitchell. There
00:25:12
were stories on Reddit about a snap
00:25:14
election and stuff. Does does he does he
00:25:16
wear that on his sleeve or does he come
00:25:18
home with a mask on and sort of not talk
00:25:19
shop with you?
00:25:21
>> Well actually you've just reinforced my
00:25:22
entire previous conversation around
00:25:24
dissemination of invasion. So who puts
00:25:27
that information out there and who
00:25:28
listens and reads it because most of
00:25:30
it's troll. Um and um but people get all
00:25:33
head up about it. Look, um,
00:25:35
>> but it was still like I'm think I'm
00:25:37
probably projecting here, but if I was
00:25:38
in his shoes, it would get it would get
00:25:39
under my skin.
00:25:40
>> Well, I think it's really I think it's
00:25:42
really it's hard when you know that
00:25:45
actually it's quite the information that
00:25:48
goes around it is unjust when in fact
00:25:50
you are doing all of these things that
00:25:52
are not being represented. So, there's
00:25:53
that aspect to it. And yes, of course,
00:25:55
anybody would get affected by it, but um
00:25:59
he you've got to sort of, you know, in
00:26:02
the polls I kind of think this is me,
00:26:04
not anybody else. I kind of think look,
00:26:06
they could have worded a particular
00:26:07
question in a way that, you know, do you
00:26:10
want the red pajamas or the slightly red
00:26:11
pajamas? And it's like there's no blue
00:26:14
pajamas in there or what actually, you
00:26:17
know, whatever. And it's like that skew.
00:26:19
So, you don't quite know what the nature
00:26:21
of it. and they kind of say, um, but I
00:26:24
know there's whole communities that
00:26:25
aren't being tapped that are very, very
00:26:28
positive towards Christopher and they're
00:26:29
not going to be represented in it, but
00:26:31
he and I are very aligned with each
00:26:33
other. Um, and he doesn't hide anything
00:26:36
from me. There's things I don't need to
00:26:38
know. But, um, I understand him the best
00:26:41
in the world. I know him the best in the
00:26:43
world. And after all of this is over,
00:26:45
it's him and me. And so he can, you
00:26:48
know, he can share with me and be very
00:26:50
frank and um clear with me and say
00:26:53
things that he couldn't necessarily say
00:26:55
or express elsewhere. So we're the safe
00:26:58
home haven at night um at home and um
00:27:02
and that's he comes home and he's in a
00:27:04
safe place and so that's the important
00:27:06
thing. So, so I think you've got to just
00:27:08
sort of go it is what it is, but
00:27:10
actually um the only poll that really
00:27:13
matters is the one on on on the day and
00:27:15
you've got to just keep rising above
00:27:17
that. But it's hard when you're
00:27:19
achieving a lot, working so hard and you
00:27:23
know um
00:27:24
>> the information is not getting out there
00:27:26
as to what's really going on. So, it
00:27:27
would absolutely reflect, you know, that
00:27:30
sort of thing. Also, also your your
00:27:32
perspective, you know, this the guy you
00:27:33
love, the guy that you you've been
00:27:35
married to for 32 years. Um, I mean,
00:27:37
he's big enough to look after himself,
00:27:38
but um, it must just be infuriating for
00:27:40
you at times.
00:27:42
>> Yeah. And I'm very disciplined. Um, and
00:27:45
I have to be very disciplined. Um, you
00:27:47
said you couldn't find anything out
00:27:48
about me purposely. I have no social
00:27:50
media. Um, the only time you'll probably
00:27:54
ever see me is maybe if I pop up on
00:27:55
Christopher's social media. um has
00:27:58
nothing to do with the fact that I'm not
00:28:00
that great on tech. It's I'm saying it's
00:28:03
because I'm choosing not to have social
00:28:04
media.
00:28:05
>> Have you ever had it or did you did you
00:28:07
shut everything down?
00:28:08
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I never had it. Um and
00:28:10
it was quite good cuz it was just coming
00:28:12
in when the kids were sort of getting
00:28:13
there and we sort of said to them, "Oh,
00:28:16
you know, the security team at New
00:28:18
Zealand have said you're not allowed to
00:28:19
post and you're not allowed to." It was
00:28:20
brilliant. It was absolutely brilliant.
00:28:22
So neither we never had social media
00:28:25
problems with our um kids. Um and so I'm
00:28:28
very grateful and thankful for that. So
00:28:30
and I'm very disciplined in that I do
00:28:33
not read any comments that come up
00:28:36
anywhere because for a start most of the
00:28:39
comments are illinformed. Um, and I
00:28:42
actually kind of think if you can sit
00:28:44
behind a keyboard and make such awful
00:28:48
comments about someone that you've never
00:28:50
known, you don't really understand the
00:28:52
issue um that actually you possibly lead
00:28:56
a little bit of a sad life. Do you know
00:28:58
what I mean? And actually I feel sorry
00:29:00
that you can't get your self worth from
00:29:03
somewhere else other than being
00:29:06
egregiously horrible to other people who
00:29:09
are out there working really hard for
00:29:12
your benefit. So that's the frustrating
00:29:15
thing. So I read very little I don't I
00:29:18
read very little media um because I
00:29:21
would tend to look at it at night and
00:29:23
then if there's something that comes up
00:29:25
that is horrendously unjust I then lie
00:29:28
awake all night. So
00:29:32
>> I mean everyone says don't read the
00:29:34
comments but god it does take a huge
00:29:36
amount of self-disipline. I never read
00:29:38
the comments. And so if you get a sort
00:29:39
of a news article that comes out and you
00:29:41
go, that is just a lie. That is so not
00:29:45
okay. And you are getting away with
00:29:47
putting fabrications in there. And so
00:29:50
that's what would get me going all night
00:29:51
going
00:29:52
>> if I meet you, you know. So yeah.
00:29:55
>> Um you being a private person, how did
00:29:57
you find uh like election night in
00:30:00
particular? This is the photo that sort
00:30:02
of went viral. It's a screen cap of um
00:30:05
uh you and William taking some house
00:30:06
pizza and some savories out to the to
00:30:08
the media outside.
00:30:10
>> Yeah.
00:30:10
>> And um the whole conversation became
00:30:12
about your arms.
00:30:13
>> Yes. Well, the funny thing about that is
00:30:15
I had no idea because of course I don't
00:30:17
have social media. So I had no idea this
00:30:20
is kind of imploded around me until
00:30:22
about nearly a week later when someone
00:30:24
said um oh have you seen this? And I'm
00:30:27
going no. And I really I find it quite
00:30:30
hysterical cuz I've had a very good
00:30:32
relationship with my arms for about
00:30:33
50some years. They they've worked very
00:30:36
well for me and you know um and have
00:30:38
never been given attention before. So um
00:30:41
yeah, so I'm sure they feel very good
00:30:43
about themselves, but um it it doesn't
00:30:46
um an effect I should have. It was only
00:30:48
that I was you know had something really
00:30:49
heavy I was carrying.
00:30:50
>> Yeah, you're getting a flex on. I've had
00:30:53
um I've had Dame Lisa Carrington on the
00:30:54
podcast and we talked we talked about um
00:30:56
body image and she she feels very self I
00:30:59
mean hers hers are like next level
00:31:02
>> amazing they need to be but she said she
00:31:04
feels um you very conscious you when she
00:31:06
goes to the Hellbergs and wears like a
00:31:08
sleeveless dress
00:31:09
>> or when people comment about it um yeah
00:31:12
>> she looks so beautiful
00:31:14
>> she's stunning yeah I take a bit of a
00:31:15
different track which is that um that
00:31:19
anything I do has got nothing to do with
00:31:22
visual effect of it. Everything I do for
00:31:24
myself is um to remain healthy um and
00:31:29
fit. Fitness is important to me because
00:31:31
I want to be able to do all the things
00:31:33
that I love doing um in the world. And
00:31:36
if I'm fit, then I get to do all of
00:31:39
those things. I get to keep up. Um and
00:31:41
that's really the impetus for me. And
00:31:44
also, you know, as you start to
00:31:46
understand as we get older, the the
00:31:48
changes particularly for women and the
00:31:50
risks, the huge risks for women, you
00:31:52
know, postmenopause and, you know, the
00:31:55
the drop in um body and bone mass and
00:31:59
all the other things that come along
00:32:00
with it. Um, and I do look at my
00:32:02
parents' generation that never had the
00:32:05
advantage of all the information and
00:32:07
things that we've got now. And I see,
00:32:09
you know, often you'll have broken bones
00:32:12
and you'll have all these things and
00:32:13
they just don't have the fundamental
00:32:16
structure or fitness because they've
00:32:18
never built it up um to support a body
00:32:21
in their 80s and 90s to continue to do
00:32:23
the things that they want. So, I still
00:32:26
want to be out, you know, doing all of
00:32:28
those things and and not, you know,
00:32:30
huffing and puffing and climbing a hill
00:32:32
and things like that and just more
00:32:34
preventative, making sure what are the
00:32:36
things I can do now just to ensure and
00:32:38
it's not an aging thing for me and it's
00:32:40
not a look thing for me. It's actually a
00:32:44
being able to do what I want to do. Um,
00:32:46
and that's kind of what drives most of
00:32:48
what I do. It's got nothing to do with
00:32:50
the other.
00:32:51
>> I'm I'm in the same era. There's a book
00:32:53
I read called Outlift by a guy called
00:32:54
Dr. Peter Aier and it's basically about
00:32:56
reverse engineering aging. So it's like
00:32:58
okay in your mid70s if you want to
00:32:59
travel Europe by rail, you're going to
00:33:01
need to be able to lift a 15 to 20 kilo
00:33:03
suitcase in the overhead. That's it.
00:33:04
>> So you need to be doing the things now
00:33:06
in order to But I I heard something from
00:33:08
you. I think this was on Paula Bennett's
00:33:09
podcast and
00:33:10
>> I don't know. I'm skeptical about this.
00:33:12
Are you?
00:33:12
>> I think you may have been lying. I mean
00:33:14
like you you said you only like do
00:33:16
you've got a workout routine you do um
00:33:18
that's like 10 minutes 10 minutes each
00:33:20
time and you do that twice a week. You
00:33:22
got to be doing
00:33:23
>> for weights.
00:33:24
>> Yeah.
00:33:24
>> Oh, yeah. No, I don't do
00:33:26
>> 10 minutes twice a week.
00:33:27
>> Like um last year I did decide um that I
00:33:30
probably needed to do um I I do do a
00:33:33
little bit of tennis as well and what
00:33:35
I'm seeing is a lot of at this age you
00:33:37
start getting a lot of injury. So
00:33:39
everything I do is to prevent injury
00:33:40
because if there's injury I can't do
00:33:42
what I want to do. So,
00:33:43
>> it takes so long to recover as well.
00:33:45
>> Oh my gosh. As you get older, like if I
00:33:47
feel a twinge now, it's like stop, stop,
00:33:50
go see, you know,
00:33:51
>> sometimes you wake up. What happened?
00:33:53
What happened to my neck in the night?
00:33:55
>> Okay, so I've got a result. But I I did
00:33:58
come across compression boots. Have you
00:34:01
like the the Normatch and the body
00:34:04
compression boots? They're these massive
00:34:05
things and you you put them on and they
00:34:07
blow up.
00:34:08
>> Oh, yeah. Like a like sleeping sleeping
00:34:09
bags for your individual legs.
00:34:11
>> Yeah. And then they they have a cycle
00:34:12
and they blow up and blow down. They
00:34:15
have changed my life. Um because you do
00:34:18
tend to wake up at my age and you've you
00:34:20
know done a 10k run and done whatever
00:34:22
else and you go I'm feeling a bit tight
00:34:24
and things the these things are like
00:34:26
magic. So um so you sort of hunt out
00:34:28
things that will help recovery. Recovery
00:34:32
is harder at our age and then as you say
00:34:34
injury is really hard. So, um yeah, so
00:34:37
that sort of um the routine is really to
00:34:41
go, yep, I need to strengthen that to
00:34:44
make sure that that's working. So, it's
00:34:47
just sort of looking at the time, what
00:34:48
am I doing and what do I need to have
00:34:49
strengthen to support the other muscles
00:34:51
and things to make sure I'm doing it.
00:34:53
So, no, I I don't spend a lot of time
00:34:55
weightlifting, but when I lift, I lift
00:34:58
to failure.
00:34:59
>> Um so, that's the key thing. You can sit
00:35:01
there and pump iron as much as you want
00:35:02
all day, but actually five minutes
00:35:04
lifting so that you can't lift anymore.
00:35:06
Um, except for you then spend two or
00:35:08
three days not being able to walk.
00:35:11
Are they dos that delayed onset muscle?
00:35:13
It's a great feeling.
00:35:15
>> You know, there's been a couple of times
00:35:16
where I've tried to get down the stairs
00:35:18
and Chris is going, "Are you all right?"
00:35:19
And I'm going, "Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's
00:35:21
just the quads are killing me." And it's
00:35:23
like two or three days. So, it's kind of
00:35:24
a balance, isn't it? It's like still
00:35:26
want to be able to move, but yeah.
00:35:28
>> And you mostly run. you run 12ks most
00:35:30
mornings.
00:35:31
>> Um yeah. Yeah. So I would do so it's a
00:35:34
little bit of a mixture. Um probably I
00:35:37
would say in the last 2 3 years I've
00:35:39
probably bought that back to 10ks a day.
00:35:42
And that's mainly because as you get
00:35:44
older you want to change that
00:35:46
combination of what you do a little bit
00:35:47
more. Um and also I've sort of segmented
00:35:50
a few other things which has been really
00:35:52
fun. Um but um yeah I didn't get to run
00:35:56
last week. We're in Tonga Samoa. So I
00:35:58
have had that and it can be very
00:36:00
restrictive. I think when we were in
00:36:01
Korea last year um so I did go running
00:36:04
in Korea which was great. Malaysia was
00:36:06
too hot but Korea was a little bit um
00:36:09
yeah so that was a little bit
00:36:10
interesting cuz um Donald Trump was also
00:36:12
there at the same time. So I worked out
00:36:15
in the end I actually had five people
00:36:17
running with me and so in front of me I
00:36:20
and they were um elite um elite trained
00:36:23
soldiers. So I'm sitting going, he goes,
00:36:26
"Oh, what's your pace, ma'am?" And I go,
00:36:28
"Oh, um, five and a half minute case."
00:36:32
And he's going, "Okay." So he sets his
00:36:34
clock. Halfway round I'm going, "Oh,
00:36:37
could we just take a photograph,
00:36:38
please?"
00:36:41
Anyway, so I've got one guy in front and
00:36:43
I didn't realize, but I had two guys
00:36:44
behind me. Um, and then I had a car
00:36:47
coming with me as well. So, um I might
00:36:50
have taken it slightly um slightly
00:36:52
softer, but then of course I couldn't
00:36:54
step down, could I? I couldn't say, can
00:36:56
we make that can we make that a 6 minute
00:36:59
545 for a bit?
00:37:01
>> 5:45. It's like there was a bit of pride
00:37:03
in there. It's like, no, I I could
00:37:04
manage it.
00:37:06
>> Yeah. Cuz running for me is such an
00:37:07
individual thing. Like I go out there,
00:37:09
some people prefer to do it in in like a
00:37:11
group, but I prefer to do it on my own
00:37:12
and clear, you know, clear my thoughts.
00:37:14
>> Yeah. Well, again, as an introvert, it's
00:37:16
been my way over the years of going,
00:37:18
well, at least that's my time. Um, and I
00:37:21
can get out there and do a whole lot of
00:37:22
processing. Um, and um, yeah, so that's
00:37:26
I do enjoy that uh, part of it and I
00:37:28
enjoy the rhythm of movement, so that
00:37:30
works for me. Um, and um, yeah, I don't
00:37:34
enjoy the cold so much, but you know,
00:37:35
that's never it's never perfect, but I
00:37:38
don't I don't run with other people. Um,
00:37:40
I don't do I have done marathons, but I
00:37:43
don't do I have no need to do that.
00:37:44
That's not what drives me. It's just a
00:37:46
very personal thing. Yeah.
00:37:48
>> How many have you done? I I read
00:37:49
somewhere online that you've done the
00:37:50
Chicago Marathon. I I was looking for
00:37:52
the result online, but I couldn't
00:37:53
couldn't even find that anywhere.
00:37:54
>> No. No. No. Very few. I think um having
00:37:58
done the Chicago Marathon um and I
00:38:01
decided um that possibly that was an
00:38:03
activity I never needed to do again
00:38:06
and that it was very overrated. um and
00:38:10
um that in fact I couldn't walk for
00:38:12
several days after that. So um and
00:38:14
having small children at the time. So um
00:38:17
that's not something that drives me and
00:38:19
I don't really need to put myself
00:38:20
through that level of pain. Um I know
00:38:23
for some people it works, but um yeah,
00:38:26
it it I yeah running with crowds it's
00:38:29
you know takes the enjoyment away. So
00:38:31
yeah, I don't do it for other people. I
00:38:32
just do it for me. So yeah,
00:38:34
>> I I I get messages all the time from
00:38:36
people asking about marathons and I say,
00:38:37
"Look, if if it's a bucket list thing
00:38:38
and you're going to be one and done, do
00:38:39
one of the majors like like do do a
00:38:41
Chicago or a London or a New York or a
00:38:43
Boston."
00:38:44
>> Yeah. Yeah. The problem with the the New
00:38:46
York is that you've got to run um sorry
00:38:48
the Boston got to run the others under
00:38:50
about 4 420 for a woman and it's like,
00:38:54
"Oh yeah,
00:38:55
>> Boston qualifier."
00:38:56
>> Yeah. I can do that over a half
00:38:58
marathon, but get me to a marathon. I
00:39:00
think I'd be diminishing returns on
00:39:02
that. So, yeah. So, that's that. Yeah.
00:39:04
>> Do you do you enjoy these um these trips
00:39:06
like the trip to the Pacific Islands
00:39:08
last week?
00:39:08
>> Um yeah. What's interesting is that what
00:39:11
people don't see is that um
00:39:13
Christopher's got a very strong program
00:39:15
and then I will intersect with him at
00:39:17
various points. But um
00:39:19
>> at dinners or functions or
00:39:20
>> Yeah. or you know particular events but
00:39:23
on the side of that I have my own
00:39:24
program which is probably can put me
00:39:28
really well into my happy place. So my
00:39:30
happy place is really, you know, sitting
00:39:32
cross, well, actually not cross-legged,
00:39:34
demurly, throwing my legs to the side
00:39:36
because I can't sit cross-legged and
00:39:38
then get up and walk now, but sitting,
00:39:41
you know, sitting on the ground and just
00:39:43
spending time in particular women and
00:39:45
children's organizations cuz they're my
00:39:47
passion.
00:39:48
um and sitting with all these mostly
00:39:52
very underprivileged and very
00:39:54
disadvantaged um organizations that are
00:39:58
working really hard to support and
00:40:00
strengthen women's roles and educate
00:40:02
women and things like that. So, they're
00:40:04
the things I love about these um jobs
00:40:06
and often I've been into communities
00:40:09
that often things that New Zealand
00:40:11
financially support and they've never
00:40:13
seen a New Zealander before and it's the
00:40:16
greatest joy to actually go in and hear
00:40:18
what they're doing and and support them
00:40:20
and encourage them and I've done a lot
00:40:22
of work with um in the anti- um anti-ex
00:40:25
trafficking um space. Olivia and I um
00:40:28
did that for many years and a lot of
00:40:30
that work was going into very obsolete
00:40:33
tiny little communities that you know
00:40:36
they live off a dollar a day if they're
00:40:38
lucky that they scavenge for and you
00:40:40
know it's it's quite um appealing to
00:40:44
sell your daughter or whatever. And so
00:40:46
working with organizations that are
00:40:48
supporting them and educating them and
00:40:50
micro financing and and and that's just
00:40:52
it's just to be with people and and make
00:40:55
those connections meaningful
00:40:56
connections. So when I get to do that on
00:40:58
the trips um what people don't
00:41:00
understand is these trips yes there's
00:41:03
trade etc. But actually
00:41:06
>> the international relationships that are
00:41:08
built are so important for New Zealand.
00:41:11
We are an isolated country um and we
00:41:14
can't exist on our own and um and when I
00:41:18
spend time and build relationships with
00:41:20
spouses, spouses go home and talk um and
00:41:25
um so that's a really intrical role and
00:41:28
it's it's a hard role. It's very uh it
00:41:30
takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of
00:41:32
focus um and can be very rewarding, but
00:41:36
it is hard and um particularly when
00:41:38
you're sitting in 35°ree heat with 90°
00:41:42
humidity and it's dripping down your
00:41:44
legs and you just have to sit for you
00:41:46
know 2 hours. So, you know, so, so I do
00:41:49
enjoy that aspect of it when I get
00:41:51
opportunities to to build meaningful
00:41:54
relationships and there's always a lot
00:41:56
of cultural barriers in there as well,
00:41:58
often interpreters as well. But when you
00:42:00
do, it's it's a real um you know, when I
00:42:03
was in Korea, um just about every
00:42:06
outlet, you know, there was me and the
00:42:08
first lady and and you could see that
00:42:10
relationship developing. So, it was it
00:42:12
was lovely. Yeah. So, they're the
00:42:13
they're the good parts.
00:42:14
Who who are the spouses that you've
00:42:16
really jelled with? You know, people
00:42:17
that you think, okay, after politics, I
00:42:19
could still, you know, be be friends on
00:42:21
a social level with this person.
00:42:22
>> Yeah, it is actually really difficult
00:42:24
because remember that they're all
00:42:25
centralized either in their communities
00:42:27
or around Wellington
00:42:29
>> and so we only really get to meet um on
00:42:33
the odd occasions when there's the whole
00:42:36
caucuses together and and the partners
00:42:38
have come for a retreat or something
00:42:39
like that or a meeting or an annual
00:42:42
general meeting. So there's not a lot of
00:42:43
opportunity for us to uh interface. And
00:42:46
I live in Oakland. I don't I only go to
00:42:48
Wellington um to either do um spousal um
00:42:53
functions with overseas or go to events
00:42:55
or things like that. So I mean
00:42:57
Christopher is never there. So there's
00:42:59
no point in me being down there when
00:43:00
I've got my whole community and life up
00:43:02
here.
00:43:03
>> So there's a couple of spouses that
00:43:05
maybe are more Oakland based that I've
00:43:07
been able to spend a little bit more
00:43:08
time with. Um we had the the real
00:43:11
pleasure of going to um Sarah and Mark
00:43:14
Mitchell's wedding on Friday. Um and and
00:43:16
that was really fun. Um yeah, so so
00:43:19
they're harder relationships to build
00:43:21
whereas he's down there with all the
00:43:23
MPs. Um and yeah, so that that's what it
00:43:27
is. Yeah. And often actually with some
00:43:28
of those things, the other spouses will
00:43:30
be able to meet, but I might need to be
00:43:32
doing something else as well. So I might
00:43:33
not get that opportunity. So yeah.
00:43:35
>> Oh, here's a question. You might want to
00:43:36
pass on this one.
00:43:37
>> I might. I'll tell you
00:43:39
>> who who who travels better. Is it the
00:43:41
wife of the prime minister on the New
00:43:43
Zeal on the um the Royal New Zealand Air
00:43:45
Force plane or is it the wife of the
00:43:47
COVID in New Zealand? I know New Zealand
00:43:50
business class lifelines
00:44:02
are somewhat wanting that quite often
00:44:04
they don't get off the ground. Um, and
00:44:07
we only take and they can only get as
00:44:09
far as Papa New Guinea and have to be
00:44:10
refueled. And you're sitting there and
00:44:12
you're going, "Where's that drip coming
00:44:14
from?" You realize that you're being
00:44:15
dripped on from the condensation. But
00:44:18
um, there is the ability to um, lie flat
00:44:21
to not actually flat, but lie back two
00:44:23
of the beds. And there's a little
00:44:24
curtain that you pull around. So So you
00:44:27
pop in there on your seat and you pull
00:44:29
the curtain around and that's fine. And
00:44:30
I'm lying there trying to go to sleep. I
00:44:32
think we've got six hours or something.
00:44:34
And the next minute I get a whack on my
00:44:37
feet and I'm going, "What on earth has
00:44:39
happened?" And the person in front of me
00:44:42
have reclined their seat and their head
00:44:45
has come through the curtain and is on
00:44:48
my feet and all of a sudden they are
00:44:51
literally sleeping in the curtain with
00:44:54
us. So um yeah, so maybe the lie flatbed
00:44:58
is probably a slightly better way to go,
00:45:00
but actually um the community the fact
00:45:03
that there's such a lot of time wasted
00:45:06
in us taking the commercial flights
00:45:08
whereas um when we've got a whole
00:45:11
delegation with us and media and
00:45:12
everything um we can get to Fenua and
00:45:15
get out and um but there's only certain
00:45:18
places we can take it anything further
00:45:19
than I think Singapore would always go
00:45:22
on the other. So, it is a little it's
00:45:23
it's funny, but you've got to laugh at
00:45:24
those things. It's like, you know, we go
00:45:27
into the toilet to get changed. It's
00:45:28
like totally boxes. You get bangs and
00:45:31
crashes and it's like you emerge, you
00:45:34
know, out of your jammies into, you
00:45:36
know, your sweatpants into something.
00:45:39
Yeah.
00:45:39
>> Oh, that's such a great answer. Jeez,
00:45:41
you're an easy chat. We've been going 50
00:45:42
minutes and we've just sort of been
00:45:44
riffing. Really?
00:45:45
>> Oh my gosh. 50 minutes. We have, too.
00:45:47
I've got so much more to say,
00:45:48
>> Don. Oh, don't worry. We're just GETTING
00:45:51
STARTED. YEAH.
00:45:53
HOW LONG HAVE your listeners got?
00:45:55
>> So, okay. Well, let's let's
00:45:57
>> peace. Yeah.
00:45:58
>> Early early years. So, Amanda Bradley.
00:46:00
Uh, what did she want to do? Or
00:46:02
>> Amanda Ray? It was actually Ray.
00:46:05
Bradley. Who's that?
00:46:06
>> Oh, that was maybe maybe AI did me
00:46:08
dirty.
00:46:09
>> Yeah. AI did dirty. Amanda Ray. Yeah.
00:46:11
Yeah. Hence, I'm now Luxom, which is
00:46:13
much better to write than Ray.
00:46:15
>> Who? Yeah. Who Who was she? What were
00:46:17
her dreams, goals, aspirations?
00:46:18
>> Yeah. So, I was really lucky. Um I a lot
00:46:22
of my childhood was based around dance.
00:46:25
My mother Yeah. You're quite good,
00:46:26
right? Yeah. No, it's terrible. I think
00:46:28
at the long run I've got slightly
00:46:30
problematic feet where my second toe is
00:46:32
way way way bigger than my first toe,
00:46:34
which when you put it into a pair of
00:46:36
point shoes, never works. I think when
00:46:38
someone says to you, "You've got such
00:46:40
lovely dance quality."
00:46:44
That's like, yeah, technically maybe
00:46:46
you're not that great.
00:46:48
But I did No, I did dance. um till very
00:46:51
you know all my way through my teens. Um
00:46:53
my mother had always wanted to dance as
00:46:56
a child. She came they came from
00:46:57
relatively um lut soio economic
00:47:01
background and would have loved to have
00:47:02
danced. So I think there was a little
00:47:04
bit of um you know living through me and
00:47:07
that was we were only allowed as
00:47:08
children one activity and so I um did
00:47:11
dance and my mother sewed my point shoes
00:47:14
and sewed all my costumes and so um and
00:47:17
it was lovely. It gave me a lot of
00:47:19
discipline and I really really did um
00:47:21
like it fundamentally I didn't have the
00:47:25
body biomechanics or um the body to have
00:47:29
um gone on and done it professionally.
00:47:32
Had I I think I may have um I did have
00:47:34
several friends um go on and
00:47:36
professionally dance. Um and we had a
00:47:39
really really good school. I did dance
00:47:40
for the Southern Ballet Theater as a
00:47:42
junior there and just loved it. It was
00:47:44
it was amazing part of my childhood. So
00:47:47
yeah, but I did have a quite an insular
00:47:49
childhood I think. Yeah.
00:47:51
>> So you lived upstate your parents ran
00:47:52
like a cut price store or four square or
00:47:54
something?
00:47:55
>> No. Well, look, it was really that it's
00:47:56
the days before the big c you know many
00:47:59
people wouldn't know that there were for
00:48:01
many years we never had a countdown. I
00:48:03
can remember when the first countdown
00:48:05
came to um Christ Church and in fact my
00:48:08
father worked out it was coming and
00:48:09
actually ended up deciding to leave sell
00:48:12
that current store. But
00:48:14
>> so they had like a mini mart or
00:48:15
something.
00:48:16
>> Yeah. But in those days it wasn't the
00:48:18
mini mart you see because in those days
00:48:19
there wasn't a big you would go to the
00:48:21
butcher or you'd go to whatever. So you
00:48:24
know the first store we had we had the
00:48:25
petrol pumps we had the deli. We had
00:48:28
someone on deli. So they would cut the
00:48:29
meat and her finger off but that was
00:48:31
another story. Um and um and so we had
00:48:34
everything and we would go and deliver
00:48:36
in the little yellow Morris Miner with
00:48:38
the boat up into the Kashmir Hills um
00:48:41
all of the groceries and that was your
00:48:43
local store. So for many many years we
00:48:46
were your local. It wasn't a a m it was
00:48:49
your supermarket. Um and it was only the
00:48:51
point at which the first countdown came
00:48:53
to Christ Church that dad could see that
00:48:55
it was going to change. And so he
00:48:57
decided to um that that was a good time
00:48:59
to leave because that's when it would
00:49:01
have become the corner store. But up
00:49:03
until that point he he had everything um
00:49:06
yeah vegetables, fruit, all fresh and
00:49:08
beautiful and quite big stores.
00:49:10
>> Um
00:49:11
>> wow it's amazing. So entirely
00:49:13
independently owned
00:49:15
>> entirely. So mom and I'm I'm really
00:49:17
proud of my parents actually. Um they
00:49:19
they did an amazing job for us and they
00:49:22
both came you know neither had a
00:49:24
tertiary education. They both came from
00:49:26
you know quite hard backgrounds and um
00:49:28
dad was very good business person. Um
00:49:31
and so they bought their first store
00:49:33
which sat on the corner of um Hel
00:49:36
Junction Road and yes we lived above it
00:49:39
and we had Johnny the lamb in the
00:49:41
backyard and um you know it was it was a
00:49:44
lovely life but they worked 24/7. We had
00:49:47
one afternoon off a week and they worked
00:49:49
the rest of the time and you know I can
00:49:52
remember being up. Mom would dad ran the
00:49:54
store, mom looked after us but she also
00:49:55
supported dad and did quite a bit of the
00:49:57
work as well. So they worked as a team.
00:49:59
um and they would be up all hours of the
00:50:01
night. But that was fundamentally the
00:50:03
transition for our family that that
00:50:05
investment of time and energy then gave
00:50:08
them um the money that they needed. He
00:50:10
was very successful to then buy a
00:50:12
slightly bigger store um and then a
00:50:14
bigger store again. Um so that's that's
00:50:16
really where they um sort of pulled us
00:50:20
up which is amazing and you know I went
00:50:22
to public school and but I had a lovely
00:50:24
life. I my parents have a lovely
00:50:26
relationship and being a the middle
00:50:29
child, I never felt like a middle child.
00:50:31
Um I always felt really, you know, um an
00:50:34
intricral part. So yeah. So yeah, but I
00:50:37
I think not a big risk-taking life. Um
00:50:42
mom and dad bought a caravan um at one
00:50:44
stage. Um but dad didn't like towing the
00:50:47
caravan. So, uh, from Christ Church, we
00:50:51
would go and our Christmases would be at
00:50:52
Spencer Park or and then it would go out
00:50:55
to Wood End. And so, we're talking, you
00:50:57
know, sort of, you know, here to
00:50:59
Helensville, you know, or something like
00:51:00
that.
00:51:00
>> 20K, 30K.
00:51:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that
00:51:04
was kind of our Yeah. our growing up.
00:51:06
So, yeah.
00:51:07
>> Did you ever rebel or anything? What's
00:51:09
the most trouble you got in?
00:51:11
>> Um, the most trouble I got in um was
00:51:15
very traumatic for me. And um it took a
00:51:19
year of sleepless nights till my mother
00:51:21
worked out I was eight. And um I was
00:51:24
annoyed that um my teacher had taken
00:51:29
another class out for PE which he never
00:51:32
did with us. And we had to sit and sing
00:51:34
which I hate. I'm really bad at singing.
00:51:37
And so I sat at the back and I was
00:51:39
grumbling and someone told on me
00:51:41
grumbling. Um and I got hauled into the
00:51:44
principal's office. Can you believe it?
00:51:46
like a little, you know, 8-year-old girl
00:51:49
that's never done anything wrong. And I
00:51:51
got sat at the front door of the office
00:51:55
by this horrible principal who had told
00:51:58
me my name was in a book. I was a bad
00:52:01
girl and it was in a book. Anyway, a
00:52:03
year later, I finally told my mother and
00:52:05
she went down said to the principal,
00:52:07
"What's going?" He said, "I didn't put
00:52:08
it in a book. I JUST LIED." IT'S LIKE
00:52:11
THIS traumatized child who has
00:52:15
fundamentally never put a foot out of
00:52:17
place and you know to be going to the
00:52:20
principal's office and yeah anyway
00:52:22
>> did you why didn't you tell your mom you
00:52:23
just sat on that for a year was it like
00:52:26
shame yeah like you know I felt so much
00:52:29
shame because you know I it wasn't even
00:52:33
a big thing it was just a silly grumble
00:52:35
with a friend and it was made into
00:52:37
something that it wasn't and that was
00:52:39
the life You know, that's what school
00:52:40
was like in those days. But there you
00:52:42
are. There's my traumatized childhood.
00:52:44
>> What were the what were the big family
00:52:45
like rules or values or like was there a
00:52:47
motto? In my family, it was always treat
00:52:49
others the way you want to be treated.
00:52:51
>> No, we didn't. We we actually as our
00:52:53
family, we do have that, but in my
00:52:55
family, it wasn't. I think um it was
00:52:58
just I had my parents are really good
00:53:01
people and they did that. They looked
00:53:03
after other people. Um my grandmother,
00:53:06
you know, spent most of her life looking
00:53:08
after other people as well. So I think
00:53:11
we just grew up with that and that was
00:53:13
really um yeah, it was just a really
00:53:16
good simple middle class upbringing with
00:53:19
really good people around me um and you
00:53:23
know taught me good lessons. So yeah. H
00:53:26
>> how are they coping with everything now?
00:53:27
Like you you being in the public eye um
00:53:30
Chris Christopher who they've known
00:53:31
since he was 15.
00:53:32
>> Yeah. No, my mom and dad have joined the
00:53:34
super blue. So,
00:53:39
>> um
00:53:39
>> were they were they were they always um
00:53:41
sort of national voters?
00:53:42
>> Yes. Yes. My my father was um I won't
00:53:46
tell you which prime minister he was
00:53:47
very fond of. Um and um so always never
00:53:51
really political but always had an
00:53:53
opinion on politics as he did about
00:53:56
rugby and wrestling um as he would talk
00:53:59
to the um television um on those things
00:54:02
as every armchair person does. So yeah,
00:54:04
so they it wasn't as if they had never
00:54:05
had any interest at all. They did
00:54:07
follow. So um but I think it's you know
00:54:10
they're retired and it actually is
00:54:12
something that they get to sort of
00:54:14
engage in which maybe they might not
00:54:16
have otherwise. So, um but yeah. Yeah.
00:54:21
So, and
00:54:22
>> was religion much of a role in your
00:54:24
upbringing?
00:54:25
>> Um um no, we didn't attend church as a
00:54:30
family other than mom was on the roster
00:54:32
at the um at the local Methodist church.
00:54:35
So, you know, we would do Christmases
00:54:36
and things like that. So, um it was
00:54:40
never a big part of intuitively what the
00:54:42
family was, but it was acknowledged if
00:54:45
you know what I mean. Um, and then I
00:54:47
just I just decided in my teens that I
00:54:51
wanted to just have a little bit of
00:54:53
further exploration of it and got
00:54:55
involved with a um I was dancing in the
00:54:57
morning so I had to go to an evening
00:54:59
service and there was a Baptist church
00:55:00
down the road so I sort of got started
00:55:03
going there um and always sitting in the
00:55:07
back because I can't hold a tune. So
00:55:09
that was a little bit embarrassing. Um
00:55:11
and that got me into a youth group which
00:55:13
gave me a really nice uh community. So a
00:55:15
lot of my teenage years was spent
00:55:17
between dancing and the church community
00:55:19
and yeah so that that's really where
00:55:22
that was introduced. Um
00:55:23
>> I suppose I suppose I suppose your
00:55:25
parents were so too busy too busy to go
00:55:28
to church every Sunday running running
00:55:29
their business and their family.
00:55:30
>> Yeah. Well mom's um parents were
00:55:33
Salvation Army. So I think that sort of
00:55:34
says a lot as well that has such a
00:55:36
beautiful um service approach Salvation
00:55:39
Army and I respect them so much. So
00:55:40
that's what she'd come up through sort
00:55:42
of thing. Yeah. So, the story goes that
00:55:45
um you and Christopher met. You were 17,
00:55:48
he was 15. It was at a kitchen at at
00:55:50
some at some party or Yeah,
00:55:53
>> it was. It was It's a really funny
00:55:55
story. So, they just moved to um Christ
00:55:58
Church back from Oakland. And so, um I
00:56:01
think they were trying to get involved
00:56:02
in the the churching the youth group.
00:56:04
So, they offered up their um house for a
00:56:06
progressive dinner. Do you know what
00:56:07
that is? So,
00:56:08
>> oh yeah, where you go from someone does
00:56:10
the entre, someone does the mains.
00:56:12
>> And attached to that was a car rally.
00:56:14
So, you get in a car with four people
00:56:15
and you've got some instructions and you
00:56:17
drive around the city and you know your
00:56:20
number six on the left is what color
00:56:21
letter box, that sort of thing. And so,
00:56:23
the final stop was at their house. Um,
00:56:26
and embarrassingly,
00:56:29
um, um, it was a bride wedding,
00:56:33
bridesmaid's theme, and I only had
00:56:36
access to one bridesmaid's dress, and it
00:56:39
was seriously the most hideous dress I
00:56:41
think I had ever seen in my entire life.
00:56:44
So, I turn up in this apricot fluffy
00:56:47
thing that was nothing to do with me.
00:56:49
Anyway, we happened to end up in the
00:56:51
kitchen together and um and we sort of
00:56:54
had a bit of a conversation and then um
00:56:57
yeah, a wee while later I was sitting
00:56:59
with my girlfriend in one of the pews.
00:57:00
It must have been like a Saturday
00:57:02
afternoon where we were just down there
00:57:03
having fun or something for an activity
00:57:05
and Chris was sitting over right over
00:57:07
the far side with his friend and I
00:57:10
looked over and I said to Nikki, "Oh,
00:57:13
look who's over there."
00:57:15
And anyway, I don't know what gave me
00:57:18
the courage because that's not really I
00:57:20
didn't have big courage in those days. I
00:57:22
was, you know, quite shy. Um, we got up
00:57:25
and we went over and we sat next to
00:57:26
them. She on David's side and me on
00:57:28
Christopher's side and we just struck up
00:57:31
this really lovely conversation and and
00:57:34
we just kept intersecting at a few um
00:57:36
activities and then um I made him go to
00:57:40
aerobics with me cuz I was an aerobics
00:57:42
instructor at that stage. Um, so he came
00:57:45
down in his, you know, footy shorts and
00:57:47
with his lack of hamstring flexibility,
00:57:51
which is profound.
00:57:54
And he's very sporty, Christopher. Like,
00:57:56
he can pick up any ball or any bat and
00:58:00
be really amazing at any sport. That's
00:58:02
why I have to work so hard on my tennis
00:58:04
now so that when he's finished, I can be
00:58:06
better than him.
00:58:08
>> It'll probably only take him a few
00:58:09
months and he'll be better than me.
00:58:11
Yeah.
00:58:11
>> Yeah. So we sort of did a few fun things
00:58:13
like that. Um and then I actually um
00:58:17
took him as my date to a 21st and Yeah.
00:58:20
And that's where it sort of started.
00:58:22
>> Yes. It was like four years after
00:58:23
meeting that you started dating.
00:58:25
>> Yeah.
00:58:26
>> Did Did you Did were you crushing on him
00:58:28
or was he crushing on you?
00:58:31
>> It was one of those it was one of those
00:58:32
lovely things where we just bought built
00:58:35
this beautiful friendship and No, we're
00:58:37
just friends. Seriously, we're just
00:58:39
friends. But you it was just this lovely
00:58:42
build that um he he was just such a
00:58:45
fabulous guy and like nobody touched him
00:58:48
anywhere close to him. He was so
00:58:50
thoughtful and interesting and he had
00:58:54
goals and he was really smart and um
00:58:58
there was just nobody else like him. So
00:59:00
that just you know how those things go
00:59:02
that you you're just friends but
00:59:04
actually it was building. So yeah, it
00:59:06
was quite lovely. Yeah, when I look
00:59:07
back, it was a really healthy and good
00:59:10
way to start to get to know each other
00:59:11
before you had to, you know, jump into a
00:59:14
relationship. So, it was nice. Yeah.
00:59:15
>> Yeah. Four years of knowing each other
00:59:17
before before dating is a massive
00:59:19
foundation. But, um, some people call
00:59:21
that like getting out of the friend
00:59:22
zone, which is can be quite hard after
00:59:24
that many that many years.
00:59:25
>> That wasn't hard.
00:59:26
>> No.
00:59:27
>> So, you you made the leap by asking him
00:59:29
to the to the dance or something.
00:59:31
>> Yeah. It was actually I needed a partner
00:59:33
to go to a 21st. That was actually on
00:59:36
the night of my 21st, but I'd had mine a
00:59:39
month earlier um for a reason. So um
00:59:42
yeah, so he came with me and it was
00:59:45
like, yeah, this is this is Yeah, it was
00:59:47
a really boring 21st.
00:59:50
>> We might have exited stage, left
00:59:52
earlier. Yeah.
00:59:52
>> Were you were you a drinker then? You're
00:59:54
both non drinkers now?
00:59:55
>> Never. Never.
00:59:56
>> What's your reason? Christopher said on
00:59:57
the podcast he he chose not to because
00:59:59
his granddad was um an alcoholic and he
01:00:02
saw him in a twisted state a couple of
01:00:04
times and he just decided early on it
01:00:06
wasn't for him.
01:00:06
>> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting question and
01:00:08
totally different from Christopher which
01:00:10
was because I was dancing so much. Um I
01:00:14
was never really involved in a lot of
01:00:16
sort of um situations where teens were
01:00:19
drinking. So it wasn't something that I
01:00:21
really got used to. Then a lot of our
01:00:24
activities were sort of friends and so
01:00:26
we'd sit around with coffee and just
01:00:27
chat on Friday and Saturday night. So it
01:00:30
wasn't something that was necessarily
01:00:32
part of my social scene in the beginning
01:00:36
and then with then Christopher didn't
01:00:37
drink either and so um I never really
01:00:41
developed the taste for it. Um but the
01:00:43
real reason is I don't actually like the
01:00:46
lack of control it gives me.
01:00:50
I I fundamentally give me a quarter of a
01:00:53
glass of wine and I'll be dancing on the
01:00:55
table. So, it's it's a bit of a risk I
01:00:58
think to give me any kind of alcohol. It
01:01:00
goes through my system very quick. There
01:01:02
was one f I I have drunk on one occasion
01:01:05
and I was trying to be a really big
01:01:06
girl. Christopher and I were on our
01:01:08
first vacation away with his parents and
01:01:11
there'd been a little winery over that
01:01:12
had just so we thought we'd be really
01:01:14
big people and go over and have dinner
01:01:16
and um and they had wine tasting. I'm
01:01:18
thinking, "Oh, why not?" I mean, it
01:01:20
tasted like petrol to me and I never
01:01:21
drunk after it. But anyway, I literally
01:01:23
had I would say a tasting glass, not a
01:01:26
big one. I would say I had half a glass
01:01:28
of that and um Christopher was seen
01:01:31
walking me up and down the road before
01:01:33
he could take me in. And then he puts me
01:01:35
in a table in the corner and I'm just I
01:01:38
can remember it really clearly. I can
01:01:39
remember sitting there just wanting to
01:01:42
break down laughing the whole time over
01:01:43
nothing. So, I think at that point I
01:01:45
realized I possibly didn't hold my
01:01:47
alcohol well. Um, it didn't taste tasted
01:01:50
like petrol anyway. Um, I didn't have,
01:01:53
you know, a good control with it, so it
01:01:56
never appealed to me. So, that's really
01:01:57
it.
01:01:58
>> Yeah. Oh, that's cool.
01:01:59
>> Yeah.
01:01:59
>> Yeah. I've got no idea what it was like
01:02:01
for a um you know for a young girl in
01:02:02
Christ Church at that time. But I I
01:02:04
talked about this with Christopher on
01:02:05
the podcast like to be um like a guy in
01:02:08
in New Zealand in the the ' 80s or the
01:02:09
'90s and the decision not to drink. It
01:02:11
takes a lot of strength of character cuz
01:02:13
the peer pressure back then was immense.
01:02:14
>> Yeah. And possibly even more for a guy
01:02:17
even than a girl. But actually I don't
01:02:19
think that pressure has really changed
01:02:21
terribly much. Um and I think cuz you
01:02:24
know my kids went through that stage and
01:02:26
and we said to them, you get to choose.
01:02:28
I don't believe in um in um in a
01:02:33
environment where you demand of children
01:02:35
or you um you tell I would rather
01:02:38
educate children, empower them and then
01:02:41
negotiate with them. And so I basically
01:02:44
said you get the choice to drink um
01:02:46
firstly not until you're 18 cuz the law
01:02:48
says no and if you want to travel
01:02:50
overseas you don't want anything you
01:02:52
know to do anything. So that was out,
01:02:53
but once that it's up to you, but here's
01:02:56
the research from Stanford University
01:02:58
about what alcohol does to your brain.
01:03:00
Um, but you get the choice. Um, and so
01:03:03
neither of the kids drunk, you know,
01:03:05
through that time. So, and that was she
01:03:08
really stood out, but it really comes
01:03:10
back to what is your own self feel and
01:03:14
is that self determined by what other
01:03:17
people think of you or is it determined
01:03:19
what you believe about yourself? And so
01:03:22
Olivia was in a great state because
01:03:25
everybody would bring her non-alcoholic
01:03:26
drinks, she would drive the car, she'd
01:03:28
hold their head. So they loved her. Um,
01:03:31
and for me it was the same. It was like
01:03:33
I don't actually I don't bow to that
01:03:35
pressure, which actually is probably
01:03:37
good because that same feeling is
01:03:39
implemented now when things are thrown
01:03:41
at me. It's like, well, hold on. That's
01:03:44
your circus, your monkey, and you're not
01:03:46
within my sphere of influence. So I'm
01:03:48
not going to ask advice from you. So,
01:03:49
I'm not going to take your criticism.
01:03:51
So, I know within myself who I am. I
01:03:55
know my strengths and my weaknesses. Um,
01:03:57
and I've got a very close group of
01:03:59
people around me that I respect and love
01:04:01
me and will, you know, speak to me what
01:04:03
I need to hear. So, um, it's all about
01:04:07
self-concept, I think, with kids that,
01:04:09
um, if they feel good about themselves,
01:04:11
then they don't necessarily need to do
01:04:13
things for other people. Um, and I think
01:04:15
that's one of the things I'm really
01:04:16
grateful for is both our kids kind of
01:04:18
knew who they were. Um, and never really
01:04:22
needed to be influenced by pressure
01:04:25
terribly much. Yeah.
01:04:26
>> Yeah. It seems like you you guys did a
01:04:27
good um job of um parenting. Like there
01:04:30
was a there was a couple of things I
01:04:31
read which I really liked. One was um
01:04:33
like discouraging them from social media
01:04:34
and saying you should pick 10 people.
01:04:36
>> Yeah. It was really good.
01:04:37
>> 10 people as your circle of friends and
01:04:39
uh that that gives you like a a range of
01:04:41
opinions of people that will have your
01:04:42
best interest at heart. And another
01:04:44
thing I really like
01:04:44
>> and we wrote them on a card and put them
01:04:45
in their bags as well. Yeah. So they
01:04:47
>> So who were they like like mom, dad,
01:04:49
dad, nana, you know, those kind of
01:04:51
things. And a few very close friends
01:04:52
that we know really love our kids. We've
01:04:55
got a beautiful group of friends that we
01:04:57
sort of, you know, I've got daughters to
01:04:59
another mother and um and those women
01:05:01
have just got our kids best interests at
01:05:04
heart. Um so they'd be on the list and
01:05:06
things like that. Yeah. So
01:05:07
>> I like that one. And there was another
01:05:08
one. Whenever you had people over for
01:05:10
dinner, uh the kids had to sit at the
01:05:12
table and and ask them three questions.
01:05:13
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. Yeah. It's
01:05:15
like um but they're all little things,
01:05:18
but um
01:05:19
>> it's it's only little, but it takes an
01:05:20
effort to have these things and stick
01:05:21
with them.
01:05:22
>> And it is and you actually have to start
01:05:23
these things earlier because, you know,
01:05:25
we were talking before, what do we want
01:05:27
from our kids? We want them to be um we
01:05:29
basically want them to get to a stage
01:05:31
where you can trust that they can go out
01:05:34
into the world and make really good
01:05:36
decisions. um they might not always be
01:05:40
the exact decision you might make, but
01:05:44
they're good decisions based on critical
01:05:46
thinking and good facts and and what
01:05:49
they know. So that's what you want to
01:05:50
get to, but that doesn't happen
01:05:52
overnight at a click of fingers. So you
01:05:54
need to start early and you need to
01:05:57
educate your kids right from little is
01:06:00
why do you not take somebody else's toy
01:06:02
you know instead of just saying
01:06:04
dictatorally don't take their toy you're
01:06:07
naughty and stick them in a corner none
01:06:08
of you know that kind of stuff doesn't
01:06:10
work and you see it with teenagers they
01:06:12
want to have a sense of ownership and
01:06:15
control over what they do in their life
01:06:18
and so you can give that to them as a
01:06:19
little one you say do you want the red
01:06:21
pajamas or the blue pajamas darling you
01:06:22
will wear pajamas But you can choose,
01:06:24
you know, and Yeah. Yeah. You don't know
01:06:27
I'm giving you a false choice, but you
01:06:29
get to choose and you're empowered and
01:06:31
you you you take that on as as a
01:06:34
process. So, and that just changes a
01:06:37
little bit. And it's the same with the,
01:06:38
you know, the drinking later on. You get
01:06:40
to choose and I trust you till I don't
01:06:43
trust you. Um, so you keep my trust. So,
01:06:47
you sort of educate around the issues.
01:06:49
You empower them to make the decisions
01:06:51
and then you negotiate. So, if they're
01:06:53
drinking, you go, "That's great. You can
01:06:54
drink. Um, I think that you should only
01:06:57
have two drinks tonight. I want six."
01:06:59
Yeah. Okay. Okay. You can have three and
01:07:01
that's it. And if you stick to that,
01:07:03
then I continue to trust you. But you're
01:07:06
empowered to make that decision and you
01:07:07
control that. And they will do. You
01:07:10
know, nine times out, they don't want to
01:07:12
disappoint you, but they want to have
01:07:13
some control and freedom. So, I think
01:07:16
it's a really powerful process. And then
01:07:18
the other really important thing is that
01:07:20
they're going to muck up. you know,
01:07:21
they're going to
01:07:22
>> that's a human experience.
01:07:23
>> Oh, yeah. Look, you learn from that. And
01:07:25
I'd always say to the kids, particularly
01:07:26
with schooling things, if the
01:07:29
consequences for your behavior outweigh
01:07:32
the activity, um, I will step in, okay?
01:07:35
And I will do it or I will step in when
01:07:39
you ask. So, I would encourage them to
01:07:41
fight their own battles up front. But
01:07:43
when it got to the point that there was
01:07:45
an you know unequal power balance
01:07:47
between something that was going on and
01:07:50
um she is no longer able to fight for
01:07:54
herself because there's an imbalance
01:07:56
then I will come in but but um she she
01:07:59
will ask and I will step in when she
01:08:01
asks me to. So you give them the lead
01:08:03
and then when they need it. But the
01:08:05
other important thing is that when they
01:08:06
do muck up then actually how do you
01:08:09
respond to that? Because you the most
01:08:12
important thing is you maintain
01:08:13
relationship and you don't alienate. And
01:08:15
when kids muck up they're in this
01:08:18
horrible stage of feeling bad and and
01:08:22
not knowing what to do and they've
01:08:23
disappointed or they've shame whatever
01:08:25
it is. And a really good friend said the
01:08:27
best thing to me. She said, "Whenever
01:08:29
something happens, the most important
01:08:32
thing is what you say to them the minute
01:08:36
that you first see them."
01:08:39
>> So, do they a friend had a daughter that
01:08:42
she had to go and retrieve from the
01:08:43
hospital?
01:08:45
And so, the choice there was, do I go in
01:08:47
and go, you idiot, I trusted you, blah
01:08:50
blah blah blah blah, and alienate her
01:08:52
from that relationship? Or do you go in
01:08:54
and say, "Oh, I am so thankful. You are
01:08:59
okay. I love you. Let me help you. Let's
01:09:02
go home." Now, later on, you can have
01:09:05
the conversation.
01:09:06
But in those moments, what comes out of
01:09:09
your mouth is the message they will
01:09:11
remember. And is that a message of
01:09:13
you're going to muck up, but I love and
01:09:15
support you anyway? I might not have
01:09:17
agreed, but in this moment, I am your
01:09:20
safe space. I am your champion. I am
01:09:22
here for you and that maintains the
01:09:25
relationship and then they will come
01:09:27
back to you. But if you alienate them,
01:09:29
make them feel bad, it it's just the
01:09:31
attack. So that's personally how I've
01:09:34
managed that as we've gone through which
01:09:35
is I'll stand and be the person that you
01:09:38
can't be in the times that you need me
01:09:40
to and when things go wrong I'll be
01:09:43
there to support you and then we'll work
01:09:44
it out later. Yeah. So
01:09:46
>> like your mom going into the school
01:09:48
after she found the headmaster wrote
01:09:50
your name in the book.
01:09:50
>> Dead right. You are dead right.
01:09:52
>> Exactly the same. I mean what you were
01:09:54
saying is great but it takes a lot of
01:09:55
self-control I think as a parent to to
01:09:57
think okay this is this is my urge is to
01:10:00
say this
01:10:01
>> um versus okay what should I say right
01:10:03
now that is not what is on the top of my
01:10:06
tongue.
01:10:06
>> So that comes with the premise that you
01:10:08
think parenting is easy.
01:10:10
>> That's the first mistake you make. And I
01:10:12
think the most one of the things I've
01:10:15
really enjoyed about parenting in some
01:10:17
respect and hated in others is that if
01:10:19
you're prepared, you can learn such a
01:10:22
lot about your own self. So if you want
01:10:24
to go in and you know dress down a child
01:10:26
who's in has made a big mistake and is
01:10:28
in a really bad state, what are you
01:10:31
doing that for actually? Are you doing
01:10:33
it out of your own anger and frustration
01:10:35
and annoyance or is that coming um from
01:10:39
a place of of love which generally is
01:10:41
more the the latter? And so if
01:10:43
something's happening for your children,
01:10:45
you can go that child is naughty or that
01:10:48
child is this or that child is that or
01:10:50
you could peel it back and not blame
01:10:52
yourself but go okay what is happening
01:10:55
for that child that is causing a
01:10:57
behavior because children don't
01:10:59
naturally want to behave badly. they
01:11:02
don't want to disappoint. There'll be a
01:11:03
reason why they are acting out or
01:11:05
something's happening. And so I think
01:11:08
I've learned a huge about about myself
01:11:11
and actually changed quite a lot about
01:11:13
myself. Um the the the label maker is
01:11:17
Christopher and my best friend. Um and
01:11:19
so so when you look at that, you know,
01:11:22
as a couple you can be that way, but
01:11:24
with children who will step over washing
01:11:28
to go to their bedroom and say, "I
01:11:30
didn't see it.
01:11:34
or you know their floor is you know um
01:11:36
the wardrobe then you again you can
01:11:39
approach that two ways and say um you
01:11:42
know I'm going to impose my value and
01:11:44
whatever on that or I can help you learn
01:11:46
how to you know manage yourself or
01:11:48
whatever but I think as a person now
01:11:51
compared to before I had children um I'm
01:11:54
I'm more um
01:11:57
relaxed and accepting of the different
01:12:01
ways things can be done. Um, and um, I
01:12:05
think that's been one thing personally
01:12:07
I've learned. So, parenting is two
01:12:09
things. It's about parenting your
01:12:10
children, but it's also this beautiful
01:12:12
self-discovery if you want to. A lot of
01:12:15
people don't want to, and that's hard.
01:12:17
That's that's hard work. So, yeah. So,
01:12:19
it's often just taking that moment and
01:12:21
thinking this is naturally what I would
01:12:24
like to do. Um, what would be the best
01:12:26
thing in this situation? Now, I'd like
01:12:28
to preface that I have made a number of
01:12:31
very bad parenting mistakes in my life,
01:12:34
which I think my children might remind
01:12:36
me about, but these are just the
01:12:37
beautiful things that you learn um as
01:12:39
you do. You make your own mistakes and
01:12:41
then you go, "Oh, I wish I'd had someone
01:12:43
to tell me that or I wish I'd had
01:12:44
someone to give me that advice." Um and
01:12:46
living overseas, we didn't have a big
01:12:48
community around us when our children
01:12:50
were little. So, it was Christopher and
01:12:51
I as the, you know, we were it we didn't
01:12:54
have that community. So um coming back
01:12:57
to New Zealand we did which was lovely
01:12:58
but in those early years. Yeah.
01:13:00
>> How's the last couple of years been for
01:13:02
them?
01:13:03
>> For the kids.
01:13:03
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How how have they come
01:13:05
to the the adjustment?
01:13:06
>> Yeah. Yeah. Another really good question
01:13:07
and I think the really important thing
01:13:09
to mention here is that I said to
01:13:12
Christopher that he was I made the stand
01:13:15
that he was not allowed to go into
01:13:16
politics until Olivia had left school.
01:13:19
>> So um
01:13:20
>> what why what did you base that on? Was
01:13:21
that on seeing Obama's kids or John Ke?
01:13:24
I just think that um you think of the
01:13:27
amount of scrutiny that we can come come
01:13:29
under and children um are not immune to
01:13:33
that. So it's like um in New Zealand we
01:13:37
like to pull people down unfortunately.
01:13:38
So you know when someone's doing well we
01:13:40
like to sort of attack it rather than
01:13:42
build it up. So, but um yeah, it's just
01:13:45
that whole concept of once they became
01:13:49
adults um they then were in a position
01:13:52
to make a decision for themselves rather
01:13:55
than us putting that decision onto them
01:13:58
whether or not how much they wanted to
01:14:02
um enter into that. Now, it is difficult
01:14:05
for them when things are said in the
01:14:06
media about their father who they know
01:14:10
it's untrue. Um but um that's also a
01:14:14
good lesson for them to learn and we've
01:14:16
tried to teach them about that circle of
01:14:18
influence type thing. So they're they're
01:14:19
pretty good with that. Um and so at
01:14:22
least we allowed them to be in a
01:14:26
position to choose. So if they decide to
01:14:28
come and stand up at the opening of the
01:14:30
campaign or whatever, that is their
01:14:32
choice. We don't make them do that. If
01:14:34
they do a an article in the paper, um
01:14:37
they choose to come in or out. Um, it's
01:14:40
been really lovely. I've hated it on one
01:14:42
sense cuz I'm very close with Olivia,
01:14:44
but her being in Melbourne has been
01:14:46
quite nice for her in that she's really
01:14:49
been out of that sphere and has just
01:14:51
been able to really develop as a, you
01:14:54
know, those early 20s are just such
01:14:56
important, you know, foundational time
01:14:58
for learning who you are and how to turn
01:15:00
the mains off. Um and um you know so
01:15:03
she's had that um opportunity over there
01:15:06
and so she can choose to come back into
01:15:08
it and she's got a beautiful group of
01:15:09
friends and a lovely job. So so that's
01:15:12
really good. So
01:15:13
>> well that three-hour flight just gives
01:15:14
you a bit of breathing space, doesn't
01:15:15
it?
01:15:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it does. Um and so so we
01:15:18
were very conscious about making sure
01:15:20
we've protected them as much as we can,
01:15:22
but also they're really proud of their
01:15:23
father. like um they don't publicly talk
01:15:28
about it, but actually, you know, they
01:15:31
find out what dad's doing through the
01:15:32
social media and so they love him and
01:15:34
they know he's doing what he wants to do
01:15:36
and and they're proud of their father
01:15:37
who's, you know, done an amazing thing.
01:15:40
So there's only 42 people that have done
01:15:42
that job before Christopher. So yeah, so
01:15:44
I think there's a nice mixture there.
01:15:48
>> That was a nice little diversion. Um
01:15:50
yeah, thanks for sharing that. These
01:15:52
these are nice little insights. Um,
01:15:54
okay. So, who said I love you first?
01:15:57
>> Oh, look, I think it was together.
01:16:01
>> Someone Someone's always got to be the I
01:16:03
know it's a long time ago. Someone's got
01:16:04
to be the courageous one.
01:16:06
>> I don't I actually don't know. I
01:16:08
actually cannot tell you that. Um, yeah.
01:16:12
I don't know. Did you ask him? I don't
01:16:14
know. I'm going to ask him tonight. No,
01:16:15
I can't remember. Sorry. Sorry.
01:16:16
>> What about the proposal? How did that
01:16:18
happen?
01:16:18
>> Oh, that was quite lovely. Um
01:16:20
Christopher was actually working in
01:16:21
Wellington cuz he had started with Uni
01:16:23
Lever so he was being he was on the
01:16:25
global management program so he was sort
01:16:27
of shifting around. Um so he came um it
01:16:31
was Easter actually and he had come down
01:16:33
um and he took me to Tiffany's which was
01:16:36
a little bit of a flash. Yeah. It was a
01:16:38
bit posh in those days and um
01:16:40
>> it's posh now.
01:16:41
>> Yeah it's posh. Yeah. No different
01:16:43
Tiffany's. Not that Tiffany's. Sorry.
01:16:46
>> Sorry. What are you talking about? Yeah,
01:16:48
I was a restaurant on
01:16:50
>> No, no, no. Um, so no, it was a
01:16:54
restaurant in Christ Church on the Avon.
01:16:56
So, and so he um Yeah. So, he got down
01:16:59
on one knee and asked me. So, that was
01:17:00
really lovely. Yeah.
01:17:01
>> Did you have an inkling it was coming?
01:17:03
>> I only did. I did because um he was away
01:17:09
and it was just a sort of Yeah, we had
01:17:11
to be we're we're relatively planned
01:17:13
people. We're quite conscious about all
01:17:16
the decisions that we make. So we had
01:17:18
had a discussion about it. So yeah.
01:17:21
>> Yeah. He he told me something in the
01:17:23
podcast that you guys do and he said,
01:17:24
"Oh, people will probably find this a
01:17:26
bit weird." And and it it it definitely
01:17:27
is a little bit weird, I think, in the
01:17:29
respect.
01:17:29
>> Okay. Weird is a very negative word. Um
01:17:31
yeah, it is original. Could we call it
01:17:33
original? Now, the thing he was talking
01:17:35
about was um and I don't know if you
01:17:36
still do this now, but he said you you'd
01:17:39
um ship the kids off to their
01:17:40
grandparents um over summer break, New
01:17:42
Year's, and you two would spend a couple
01:17:44
of days in a hotel and you just like
01:17:46
write out plans, you know, goals goals
01:17:48
for the year personally, as a couple,
01:17:50
and as a family. And he said, "Oh, it's
01:17:51
probably a bit weird." And it is a
01:17:53
little bit weird, but it's it's it's
01:17:54
only weird because I think most people
01:17:56
would like the idea of it and would do
01:17:57
it, go into the year with a with a head
01:17:59
full of steam, and then it would sort of
01:18:01
peter off or fizzle out. You guys still
01:18:04
do this? True. And I can literally
01:18:06
remember sitting in the car while we
01:18:09
were dating and you know Christ Church
01:18:12
and the car steaming up because we were
01:18:14
inside it and drawing on the window um
01:18:17
various plans and ideas and goals. Um
01:18:20
and so I guess it's something that um
01:18:24
we've always tried to be very um
01:18:27
considered about what we do and we've
01:18:29
made some really big changes in our
01:18:31
life. Um and those changes have required
01:18:35
a lot of um emotional sort of thought
01:18:38
and uh fact hunting and things like
01:18:40
that. Um and even now today when we have
01:18:43
a we have to make a decision on
01:18:45
something, we will talk about it. We'll
01:18:48
move away. We'll come back to it cuz
01:18:49
it's amazing how things change as you
01:18:51
think about it. But everything we have
01:18:54
done and decided it has been joint.
01:18:55
Christopher going into politics was a
01:18:57
joint decision. he would never do
01:18:59
anything unless I agreed and I would
01:19:01
never do anything unless um he agreed.
01:19:03
So we really do live together with a
01:19:05
very common um set of values and goals.
01:19:08
So it is very helpful to start at the
01:19:11
beginning of the year and go what is it
01:19:13
that we want to achieve throughout this
01:19:16
year because otherwise you could easily
01:19:18
lose a year and get to the end and go
01:19:21
wow we didn't actually we weren't really
01:19:23
thoughtful about what we might have
01:19:24
wanted to achieve in that year and the
01:19:27
different phases and stages of your life
01:19:29
are really different. So, when we were
01:19:30
younger, it might have been um you know,
01:19:33
maybe some travel or how we'd like the
01:19:35
kids to develop or those kind of things.
01:19:37
You know, now it's very different kind
01:19:39
of goals that we would set. Um yeah, so
01:19:42
it changes, but it's just a nice way to
01:19:44
start and check in and make sure you're
01:19:45
on the same page, and that your train
01:19:47
tracks aren't going that way, your train
01:19:48
tracks are going this way. Um yeah, it's
01:19:51
important. M
01:19:54
>> have you had to put any of your dreams
01:19:55
on hold in order to to help him pursue
01:19:58
his dreams and his big jobs?
01:20:00
>> Um I don't think I think one of the
01:20:03
things that I love most about
01:20:05
Christopher and really really appreciate
01:20:07
is right from when we first met he was
01:20:11
very very um
01:20:15
strong on me
01:20:17
um developing and doing those things
01:20:20
that I wanted to do. and he would do
01:20:23
everything he could to help facilitate
01:20:25
me do that along the way. And so we have
01:20:28
I made a choice um when the children
01:20:31
were young that we were traveling a lot.
01:20:33
So I decided the best thing for the
01:20:35
family was that I would concentrate on
01:20:37
family and I did nonprofit consulting
01:20:40
and the odd consulting job but I really
01:20:43
wanted to do that. That's not for
01:20:44
everyone but it worked for us and our
01:20:46
lifestyle. So often our dreams um are
01:20:50
kind of quite linked because we've got
01:20:51
that same common thing. And even with
01:20:53
the politics, it's not so much a dream
01:20:55
of mine, but the mission is really that
01:20:59
you want to use we've taught our
01:21:01
children. You've got all these skills
01:21:03
and abilities and they are they mean
01:21:06
nothing unless you can use those to
01:21:09
actually better the lives of others that
01:21:11
haven't had your advantages. And so
01:21:12
we've tried to really live that out. And
01:21:14
so him leaving corporate life and coming
01:21:16
into this um is just a little bit of a
01:21:19
an example of how um that happened. So
01:21:22
our dreams are kind of quite aligned. My
01:21:24
dream at the moment is like to you know
01:21:28
play the Australian Open. But I I don't
01:21:30
think that's going to happen. I think
01:21:31
that should be fast.
01:21:32
>> Unless they have you have you looked at
01:21:34
looked into pickle ball?
01:21:36
>> Oh my gosh. I'm I Okay. So So until
01:21:40
Christmas it was like pickle ball is not
01:21:42
real tennis. It's like, you know, tennis
01:21:45
is tennis and pickle ball is not real.
01:21:47
Anyway, at Christmas time, what I did
01:21:49
was a friend said, "I've got a pickle
01:21:51
ball, you know, net." And I thought,
01:21:53
"Oh, that would be really fun." So, we
01:21:55
had just enough highly compromised space
01:21:58
in our in Wiki. It was on a sort of a a
01:22:02
slight rhombus sort of look to it. I
01:22:05
managed to map out a pickle ball court
01:22:08
and I had the, you know, the pickle ball
01:22:10
net and I thought it would be quite a
01:22:11
nice thing for us to do together. Um,
01:22:14
you know, I wasn't convinced about
01:22:15
pickle. We had so much fun and both my
01:22:19
kids learned tennis, but you know, I
01:22:21
haven't played for a while, so I thought
01:22:22
they wouldn't be that. They were both
01:22:24
fantastic and we just we had so much
01:22:28
fun. So, I will be the first to put my
01:22:30
hand up and say I was wrong about pickle
01:22:32
ball. I love pickle ball. Um and I Yeah.
01:22:36
So, um Yeah. No, I love pickle ball.
01:22:39
>> It's um It's a bit slower and a bit
01:22:40
easier than tennis, isn't it?
01:22:42
>> Oh, it's not. No, I tell you that you
01:22:45
can absolutely whack that ball like
01:22:48
nothing cuz there's no bounce in it. So,
01:22:50
it's like a plastic thing and you can
01:22:53
take every ounce of frustration out on
01:22:54
that. And as long as you got enough spin
01:22:57
on it, I mean, you can you can give that
01:22:59
the ball. I think that's what I liked
01:23:01
most about it.
01:23:02
>> Jess, I can tell you've got this this
01:23:03
real like almost mean competitive
01:23:06
streak.
01:23:07
>> Oh, please. Oh, please, Tom.
01:23:09
>> Oh, please. I came on as a friend.
01:23:13
>> No, you But you you don't want to be
01:23:15
beaten. You don't want to lose. Even if
01:23:16
it was like a casual cas casual game of
01:23:19
tennis or
01:23:21
>> um it's competitiveness in certain
01:23:23
areas. Um and that could be one of the
01:23:27
areas. Um, but in my defense, I mean,
01:23:30
tennis is a competitive game, so why
01:23:32
would you play if you didn't want uh to
01:23:35
win? And I'm competitive with a smile.
01:23:38
I'm very nice with my competitiveness,
01:23:40
but yeah, there could be a slight
01:23:42
competitive. I just I also think I only
01:23:45
took up um I only took it up like 10 11
01:23:49
years ago. And I just think is an
01:23:51
amazing that at my age you can actually
01:23:53
take up a new sport and and you can
01:23:56
actually get better at it and have fun
01:23:59
with it and it's very good socially. Um
01:24:02
it's it's yeah it's just an
01:24:03
all-encompassing yeahity. Yeah.
01:24:06
>> Um one thing that we we haven't sort of
01:24:08
acknowledged is um I've had like a lot
01:24:10
of reasonably highprofile like CEOs and
01:24:12
business people on the podcast and um
01:24:14
they they all acknowledge this the
01:24:15
sacrifice they have to make in terms of
01:24:17
like the family and the cost cuz it's
01:24:19
only 24 hours in the day. Yeah.
01:24:20
>> So, I think it's worth acknowledged,
01:24:33
is he is he usually aware of what's in
01:24:35
there or is it a surprise for him?
01:24:37
>> Yes. He goes down to David Jones with
01:24:40
his security team and buys No, no.
01:24:44
>> Well, I think there's there's a lot of a
01:24:46
lot of people with busy jobs that would
01:24:47
be able to relate to that.
01:24:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. Now, what I would like to
01:24:50
say is that this is one of those unusual
01:24:52
things. Um, I never ironed one of
01:24:55
Christopher's shirts until he became
01:24:57
prime minister. That was just they are
01:24:59
your shirts. You iron your shirts. So,
01:25:01
there's a lot of things I might do now
01:25:03
that I have never done. Um, and he's
01:25:06
very organized and very self-sufficient,
01:25:08
but he just doesn't have the time at the
01:25:10
moment. And so if that's something that
01:25:12
I can take off him that allows him to
01:25:15
focus and concentrate on um the really
01:25:18
important things at the moment. He still
01:25:20
does his own stuff in Wellington, but if
01:25:22
he is at home, I sort of manage all of
01:25:24
that stuff here. So um yeah. So yeah.
01:25:29
>> Oh, that's cool.
01:25:30
>> Yeah.
01:25:31
>> Oh, good on you. I I um Yeah, I like the
01:25:34
way you like your smile when you talk
01:25:35
about him. And you always call him
01:25:36
Christopher A. It's never abbreviated.
01:25:38
>> Well, he's not Chris. He's Christopher.
01:25:42
>> Yeah.
01:25:42
>> It's so much easier just saying Chris
01:25:44
though, isn't it?
01:25:45
>> I don't think to me he's not Chris
01:25:47
though. Like Chris is not He is
01:25:49
Christopher to me and um I've always
01:25:52
called him Christopher and I love that
01:25:54
name for him and um and that was what
01:25:58
his parents named him. So I get that
01:26:00
actually it's much easier and he's happy
01:26:02
either way. Um but I don't want to be
01:26:05
called Mandy.
01:26:07
>> Oh, good to know. Okay, I'll scrape that
01:26:09
off.
01:26:10
>> Yeah, if you could take Mandy, what do
01:26:12
you think off the bottom there?
01:26:13
>> What's What's something very normal uh
01:26:16
like a moment that you two share that
01:26:17
people wouldn't expect?
01:26:20
>> Um dance parties in the kitchen. Um
01:26:23
>> actually just the two of you.
01:26:24
>> Oh, absolutely. Or actually in the
01:26:26
bathroom in the morning. Um Christopher
01:26:28
is really um Christopher and Olivia in
01:26:31
particular are um are very very good
01:26:34
musicians. As you can tell, I'm a
01:26:35
Nickelback person. they don't really
01:26:37
appreciate my taste. Um, I am trying to
01:26:40
enter into it with them, but they will
01:26:42
share music between each other. They've
01:26:44
got this really beautiful relationship
01:26:45
and they'll share each other music. And
01:26:47
then when Christopher is away, he will
01:26:50
send me songs in the morning if he's not
01:26:52
there. And it will be something that's
01:26:53
quite nice that sort of gives me a
01:26:54
thought for the day or one that he's
01:26:56
found that might express what he thinks
01:26:58
about me or something like that. And so,
01:27:00
um, and and he likes having music going.
01:27:03
um I don't necessarily like it when I'm
01:27:06
doing bits and pieces, but he loves it.
01:27:08
And so if we're if he's home, then um
01:27:10
music will go in in the morning and in
01:27:12
most mornings there would be a sort of a
01:27:14
we would have a bit of a dance around
01:27:16
that. So that's um yeah, we do that
01:27:18
which is fun. Um
01:27:19
>> that's really romantic.
01:27:21
>> Yeah, it's just really lovely. It's like
01:27:24
music is good for your soul and it's
01:27:26
something we both like. I've come up
01:27:27
dancing and um yeah, it's just really
01:27:30
cool. It's a nice thing to do. Yeah.
01:27:34
I I think um there'll be a lot of people
01:27:36
listening to this that are in
01:27:37
relationships in their 50s that probably
01:27:39
hear this and feel a little bit bummed
01:27:40
out by their own by their own that
01:27:43
aren't in the same sort of space.
01:27:44
>> And I don't mean that I don't mean to do
01:27:46
that to people and I understand how that
01:27:48
might make people
01:27:49
>> No, it's it's more about them and what's
01:27:52
going on than you and what's going on.
01:27:54
That's that's uh that's really sweet
01:27:55
though.
01:27:56
>> Yeah. I mean, I think we've worked and
01:27:59
you know, relationships are not easy
01:28:01
either and they require a huge amount of
01:28:04
um give and take. But I think the key
01:28:07
thing and I'll often say to young
01:28:08
couples that are getting married, you
01:28:11
you know um marriage and love is is a
01:28:14
choice and you both have to choose to be
01:28:16
in that and to love each other and um if
01:28:20
one chooses it doesn't matter how much
01:28:21
the other is in it's never going to
01:28:23
work. And so I think one of the things
01:28:26
that I love and appreciate about
01:28:28
Christopher the most is that literally
01:28:30
the last thing he'll say to me before he
01:28:32
goes to sleep at night when he's at home
01:28:34
um is or if we're on the phone is he
01:28:37
he'll say I love you and and he doesn't
01:28:39
need to keep telling me he loves me but
01:28:41
it's just acknowledging that and then
01:28:45
you know in the morning it will be the
01:28:47
same sort of thing and it's just really
01:28:48
nice to to have that and you know each
01:28:51
morning you things are going to happen
01:28:53
the day and you goodness knows what, but
01:28:54
you choose to put the other person I
01:28:58
always maintain and it sounds a bit
01:29:00
weird but I maintain if I put and look
01:29:04
after if I put Christopher's needs up
01:29:07
front and he puts my needs up front per
01:29:10
se if kind of if you know what I mean
01:29:12
and we're both looking out for each
01:29:13
other then we're both looked after and I
01:29:16
think there is a huge gift in giving in
01:29:21
a relationship other than taking And a
01:29:23
huge
01:29:25
um part of a relationship is giving of
01:29:27
yourself and and for another person. And
01:29:30
and you know as a I guess I'm a
01:29:32
giftgiver, but if you talk to people
01:29:35
where do they get great joy? Do they get
01:29:36
more joy giving something or or getting
01:29:39
something back? Um and often they'll say
01:29:42
it's you know giving something. So I
01:29:44
think that's a a lovely thing about the
01:29:46
relationship which is you're always
01:29:48
looking out to what can I do to help
01:29:50
them or make their life better or how
01:29:52
can I help you do so what can I help
01:29:55
what can I do to help you help yourself
01:29:57
to help other people sort of thing.
01:29:59
Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:00
>> But no marriage gets to 32 years without
01:30:02
at least some scarring on the back. What
01:30:05
um big any standout arguments? Any big
01:30:07
arguments? What's he must do things that
01:30:10
does does it piss you off how much Pepsi
01:30:11
Max he drinks? Absolutely. Because you
01:30:14
know, aspartame is 10 times more um
01:30:17
sweet than he doesn't seem to respond to
01:30:20
my um education part of that. Drink it,
01:30:23
but drink it straight away. Do not sip
01:30:25
it. Um um Oh, I think it's I think it's
01:30:28
funny. Look, I think on the big major
01:30:30
issues, we don't argue. Um because we've
01:30:34
learned to sit down and really work the
01:30:35
issues through and and we respect each
01:30:38
other on that. I mean, I think that the
01:30:41
biggest bug bear at the moment, other
01:30:42
than him taking the call in the kitchen,
01:30:44
is that um, you know, his brain is going
01:30:48
the whole time. And so, one way that I
01:30:50
think he can slightly wind down before
01:30:52
he goes to bed is he gets onto the phone
01:30:54
and he starts looking at reals and funny
01:30:56
reels and whatever else. And and and
01:30:58
that's great. And so I'm on the other
01:31:00
side of the bed going um trying to read
01:31:03
the news without reading the news cuz I
01:31:04
don't want to read anything that's bad
01:31:06
before bed, but I need to catch up and I
01:31:08
need to do that. And and he thinks in
01:31:10
his own delightful way that he needs to
01:31:13
keep sharing with me
01:31:16
all of the funny things that he sees. Um
01:31:19
and I don't actually need to join into
01:31:22
that experience all the time with him,
01:31:24
but he wants to share his joy with me.
01:31:27
like you can keep that joy to yourself,
01:31:29
babe. And he keeps asking me if I want
01:31:31
to buy, you know, an old Austin 1300.
01:31:34
And it's like, I didn't like my Austin
01:31:36
1300. The first one.
01:31:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like, no. He's got a Riley
01:31:40
Elf, you see. And it's like, which was
01:31:42
his first. It's like I hated my Austin
01:31:44
1300. I do not want another one. And I
01:31:46
do not need a Riley bike. So, yeah. So,
01:31:50
>> does does he have a genre of memes that
01:31:52
he shares?
01:31:54
Is it generally?
01:31:55
>> No. No. No. It's more um um it depends
01:31:58
what he's on. Sometimes it will be um
01:32:00
home improvements. Oh, look at this.
01:32:03
Look at these automatic curtains. And so
01:32:05
I'll get these things sent to me at
01:32:07
random times. You know, this is the best
01:32:09
thing on Amazon this year and it's an
01:32:10
organizational thing or you know there's
01:32:13
a fabulous um you know reel of this
01:32:16
father and his son at the moment and
01:32:17
this boy's like two and he's the most
01:32:19
phenomenal baseball player and it's the
01:32:21
father teaching him. I mean it's
01:32:23
amazing. It's totally amazing. He'll be
01:32:25
in the leagues. But this little boy
01:32:27
doing all these amazing things which he
01:32:28
thinks is fabulous and it's good the
01:32:30
first time but not the 20th time.
01:32:33
>> Oh, that's so funny. That's like my
01:32:34
girlfriend. Uh after this podcast, I'll
01:32:36
turn my phone back on and in my inbox
01:32:38
there'll be like five different things
01:32:39
and some of them I'll start watching.
01:32:40
They're really long.
01:32:42
>> Yeah, it's like Yeah, I I don't have
01:32:44
social media for a reason, honey.
01:32:46
>> Yeah, sometimes I'll just love heart
01:32:47
them and not even watch them.
01:32:49
>> You get caught out. Did you see that?
01:32:53
>> Which one was that, babe? I'll just go
01:32:54
back and have another look. Yeah.
01:32:56
>> Behind closed doors, what do you think
01:32:58
has been his hardest moment as prime
01:32:59
minister so far?
01:33:01
>> Um
01:33:03
I just Yeah, look, I don't know. I think
01:33:06
that's really one for him um to answer.
01:33:09
I think just the frustration around that
01:33:12
I have shared around
01:33:14
>> um people aren't getting the full story.
01:33:16
Um, and I think it's it's it's hard
01:33:20
because you know what you're doing and
01:33:21
you know your competency and you know
01:33:23
your values and you know why you're
01:33:25
there and and and people are making
01:33:27
those decisions for you. So I think
01:33:28
that's the hardest thing. Yeah.
01:33:29
>> Yeah. Just completely um misrepresented.
01:33:32
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:33:33
>> It's got to be the hard thing. I I
01:33:34
wonder if it's even harder for say his
01:33:36
parents than what it is for you. Like
01:33:38
>> I just think about how how defensive my
01:33:39
mom is of me.
01:33:40
>> Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that's
01:33:42
interesting because I think there are
01:33:44
certainly times that I think um that it
01:33:47
is really hard for a mom to watch again
01:33:49
your own son um whom you know to not be
01:33:53
what's being represented um and you've
01:33:57
done you've spent your life you know
01:33:59
with this person and and um and so that
01:34:02
must be very hard for her and I know it
01:34:04
is at times um but she's very good as
01:34:06
well. She's very centered um and so she
01:34:09
has ways of managing that. Yeah.
01:34:11
>> What about you? What what's been your
01:34:12
hardest day as wife of the current prime
01:34:14
minister?
01:34:16
>> Oh, I don't know about that. I think
01:34:21
wife is the prime minister. I think
01:34:24
possibly when it comes back to a justice
01:34:28
thing. I think the biggest thing for me
01:34:30
is when there's blatant in injustice
01:34:34
would be the hardest thing for me. So,
01:34:35
and there's, you know, various moments
01:34:37
of that, not one particular one, I
01:34:39
think.
01:34:39
>> Yeah. something we we talked about
01:34:41
earlier. I had that quote from um you on
01:34:44
Petra's gray areas podcast and you have
01:34:46
mentioned um the term critical thinking
01:34:48
a couple of times like how can we change
01:34:51
that?
01:34:52
>> Yeah,
01:34:52
>> how can we go back to
01:34:54
>> I think that's really interesting. I
01:34:55
think it needs to start right back with
01:34:57
our children. Um we are not teaching our
01:35:00
children how to be critical thinkers. I
01:35:02
mean anywhere through our education
01:35:04
system. We're not encouraging people to
01:35:06
go what is the source of the
01:35:08
information. And I think that's the key
01:35:09
thing. So we're getting online, someone
01:35:12
saying something about something. You
01:35:14
can go anywhere and find somebody to
01:35:15
reinforce your values. Probably two or
01:35:17
three people, but we're not taking it
01:35:19
the next step which says you need to
01:35:22
make an informed decision for yourself
01:35:24
and you need to understand the issues.
01:35:26
So a lot of people that you'll hear out
01:35:28
and about with very loud voices, they
01:35:30
may not even actually understand the
01:35:32
issues particularly well. And a lot of
01:35:34
the issues are very complicated issues.
01:35:36
They're not a simple this or this. And
01:35:40
um and so we just need to encourage
01:35:43
people to say what you see online
01:35:45
because it's said it's not necessarily
01:35:48
true. You may agree with that comment,
01:35:51
but please make an informed decision
01:35:54
about your agreement. So go back, look
01:35:57
at what was their source, fact check,
01:35:59
you know, but that's just not the era
01:36:01
we're in. But I think it's actually
01:36:03
quite detrimental. So, I would love to
01:36:05
be able to see that critical thinking
01:36:08
and encouraging our children when
01:36:10
they're viewing stuff online because
01:36:13
it's taking off. We can't control what
01:36:15
is going to happen in the future online.
01:36:18
Um, we make policies for things now. In
01:36:20
a year, they'll be outdated, but we're
01:36:22
not changing the policy for 10 years. So
01:36:25
what we need to do is we need to teach
01:36:27
our children the skills
01:36:29
to manage the everchanging landscape
01:36:32
that they're going to be diving into and
01:36:34
we don't even know what that landscape
01:36:36
is. I mean would we have thought x
01:36:38
number of months ago that we would have
01:36:40
the war that we've got going on now. Um
01:36:43
so we just it's very unpredictable
01:36:45
what's going to happen in the future but
01:36:48
if we and it's a little bit like the
01:36:49
social media for our young kids and
01:36:51
things like that. We need to equip them
01:36:54
with the skills that they have um tools
01:36:57
to be able to um deal with the stuff
01:37:01
that is going to come their way. We
01:37:03
can't control that stuff. So why don't
01:37:05
we upskill our kids? Um we upskill them
01:37:08
on resilience um around what they see on
01:37:12
social media. We upskill them on
01:37:14
understanding
01:37:16
why people would do things and how would
01:37:18
they respond if they see something
01:37:20
online that
01:37:22
um they're concerned about what do they
01:37:25
do with that you know it will either get
01:37:28
absorbed or have they got mechanisms to
01:37:30
go and talk to someone have they got
01:37:32
some you know so a lot of things like
01:37:34
that and I'd love to be able to see us
01:37:37
really building all of those skills in
01:37:39
our kids they don't need to know they do
01:37:42
need to know but you
01:37:43
A lot of the computational stuff is
01:37:46
being done by computers,
01:37:49
but the critical thinking um is never
01:37:53
going to be taken over by AI. So, you
01:37:55
know, we can see where AI is going, but
01:37:57
actually if you just um
01:38:00
>> depending on what question you put into
01:38:01
AI depends on your answer because it's
01:38:03
only sourcing the information. So,
01:38:05
you've got to be able to sift through
01:38:07
that and go, it doesn't feel right based
01:38:10
on the skills that I've got. So that's
01:38:12
the critical thinking I'd love to see.
01:38:14
>> Have Have you always been big into this
01:38:16
or is this something that's just sort of
01:38:17
um you've been awakened to through this
01:38:19
whole political journey over the last 5,
01:38:21
seven years, however long it's been?
01:38:23
>> No. No. Well, I've come from an
01:38:24
education background. So I was a teacher
01:38:26
and then through. So I personally
01:38:28
believe that education
01:38:31
is the key to choice and freedom. So
01:38:34
education is so important. And if
01:38:36
there's one thing we can do for our
01:38:38
children that will give them choice
01:38:40
later on in life is to make sure that
01:38:42
they are getting an education that will
01:38:45
um stand them well in all circumstances
01:38:48
no matter what they are. Now that could
01:38:51
be an education a school education but
01:38:54
it's also an education around that wider
01:38:57
understanding and we have to equip our
01:38:59
children. So I've seen where children
01:39:02
haven't been equipped and the horrendous
01:39:05
you know that happens because of that
01:39:08
and the very sad things that will happen
01:39:10
because of that and I've also observed
01:39:12
children that have been able to have you
01:39:15
know um have those skills um presented
01:39:19
to them and how that is quite
01:39:20
life-changing. So no this is
01:39:23
>> it's not something new.
01:39:25
>> No no it's it just changes its form
01:39:27
doesn't it? But again, what I was saying
01:39:29
is we don't know what's ahead, but the
01:39:31
skills are the same. Um, self-esteem,
01:39:35
critical thinking, um, negotiation, all
01:39:38
those little skills, they're what will
01:39:40
carry us through and they're enduring
01:39:42
the the topic will change, but that will
01:39:44
stay the same. Yeah.
01:39:46
>> Th this whole experience um, you know,
01:39:49
being um, the the wife of the prime
01:39:51
minister and before that the wife of the
01:39:52
leader of the opposition, what's what
01:39:55
has it taught you about yourself, if
01:39:56
anything? There's a huge number of
01:39:58
really amazing people um out there. We
01:40:02
have got people in New Zealand doing the
01:40:05
most incredible things that we don't
01:40:06
really hear about. The doctor who
01:40:09
discovered the laser to remove the the
01:40:12
strawberry um
01:40:14
>> birthark. Um there's a guy in some shed
01:40:18
who produced a chip that is in every
01:40:21
single computer throughout the world. Um
01:40:25
there is a family, the Robinsons, who
01:40:28
you know gave $20 million to Predator
01:40:30
Free, but we don't we don't know about
01:40:32
all of those things. So, I think the
01:40:34
beauty for me is having the privilege to
01:40:37
be able to meet so many amazing people
01:40:40
um and in both jobs actually and and
01:40:43
just be able to sit and and hear their
01:40:46
stories and the journeys that they've
01:40:48
been on and the learnings they've had
01:40:49
and um people just give a lot and they
01:40:54
go through a lot and learn a lot and um
01:40:57
just their experiences give them this
01:40:59
beautiful richness and um and I just I
01:41:02
think being able to learn from other
01:41:04
people and their experiences and um is
01:41:07
just you know it's a real privilege. So
01:41:10
I think that I have just met some really
01:41:12
amazing people which is what I've loved.
01:41:14
Yeah.
01:41:14
>> Oh yeah that's definitely one thing I've
01:41:16
got from you doing this. Oh thank you.
01:41:18
Uh, one thing I've got from doing this
01:41:20
this podcast like you realize there's so
01:41:22
many Kiwis out there doing like just
01:41:23
incredible stuff like whether it's gosh
01:41:25
to Rod Drury who found Zero which is
01:41:27
like an international company or Peter
01:41:29
Be with Rocket Lab or the
01:41:31
>> mobile you know there's a guy that has
01:41:33
developed a system to troll the seas and
01:41:36
pick up um all the tiny little micro
01:41:40
particles and he just brings in and they
01:41:43
all did this from a meaning and purpose.
01:41:45
they wanted to do something and achieve
01:41:46
something. And there's just lots of
01:41:49
ingenuity in New Zealand. I mean, you
01:41:51
know, I I just even look at some of the
01:41:53
designers I've been in and their desire
01:41:56
to help keep cultivating um you know,
01:41:58
young people coming through and yeah,
01:42:01
you know, the Dingle Foundation and you
01:42:03
go, "Wow, what a amazing change you've
01:42:05
made to young people's lives." And New
01:42:08
Zealand's a amazing place and incredible
01:42:11
people and yeah.
01:42:12
>> Well, once this chapter is done,
01:42:14
whenever that may be, where do where do
01:42:15
you think you'll be based? Do you have
01:42:17
where's your favorite place to live in
01:42:18
the world outside in New Zealand?
01:42:20
>> Yeah, interesting question. Um, and
01:42:22
we've lived in a few places and really
01:42:24
to me the place is second to actually um
01:42:30
I I I' say I'd sleep in a tent. Now,
01:42:32
whether I would sleep in a tent, I' I'd
01:42:34
kind of like a toilet in the tent. Um
01:42:37
but um but I have slept in some very
01:42:40
extreme places. Um um but really to be
01:42:44
honest and I don't want to be glib but I
01:42:46
would live anywhere with Christopher. I
01:42:48
mean as long as we're together and um
01:42:50
ideally I'd like to live you know closer
01:42:53
to Olivia but at the moment that's not
01:42:55
going to happen. Um and so I think every
01:43:00
country that we've been to and live at
01:43:02
has advantages and different advantages.
01:43:05
So, I think you just choose and um yeah,
01:43:09
we'd like to spend a little bit more
01:43:11
time not working um after this
01:43:12
considering how much time I' I'd like to
01:43:15
make sure that Christopher promised me 6
01:43:17
months nearly a year after he left New
01:43:19
Zealand. Um and I got three weeks. So,
01:43:23
so after this we need to just go away
01:43:26
whenever we finish and we just need to
01:43:28
concentrate on um some other things and
01:43:31
then we'll deal with that afterwards.
01:43:32
But um yeah, we haven't we've sort of
01:43:35
talked about it, but we haven't really
01:43:37
this is so all-encompassing that there's
01:43:39
not really much of a thought of
01:43:41
afterwards at this stage. Yeah.
01:43:42
>> Well, say good luck with getting six
01:43:44
months out of him. Like he's he's a very
01:43:45
energetic guy. He's not sitting still
01:43:47
for more than
01:43:48
>> No, no, no. He can't still for So, what
01:43:50
happens is we'll we'll get away and it
01:43:52
will be like, "Oh, oh, the phone's not
01:43:54
ringing." I mean, this really happens.
01:43:56
And then it will be like, "Oh, do you
01:43:59
think we should um knock that wall out?
01:44:03
Do you think we should just change that?
01:44:05
He's the big picture thinker in the
01:44:07
family. I'm the doer." Do you think, and
01:44:09
it's like before we go away, I go, if
01:44:11
you mention any big picture thinking for
01:44:14
the next three days, okay, you can get
01:44:17
on the next boat and go home. So, so you
01:44:20
can see his mind moving. So, I give him,
01:44:22
you know, a couple of weeks and then um
01:44:25
>> on to the next.
01:44:26
>> Yeah. No, I think there's lots of things
01:44:28
he'd love to do. He loves ancestry. He
01:44:30
loves, you know, he really wants to
01:44:32
spend some time just really sort of
01:44:34
getting fit again and a few things like
01:44:36
that. So, there's lots of things he'd
01:44:38
like to do and this is an extreme the
01:44:41
most extreme job. I don't think people
01:44:43
realize quite how extreme it is and I
01:44:47
didn't realize how extreme it is in the
01:44:49
demand. So someone who was prepared for
01:44:52
it didn't really realize it. So and that
01:44:54
does, you know, take its toll. You sort
01:44:56
of see Obama when he went in, he had,
01:44:58
you know, brown hair and he came out
01:45:00
with, you know,
01:45:00
>> came out looking like Morgan Freeman.
01:45:02
>> He did.
01:45:05
>> It ages everyone.
01:45:06
>> Yeah. But then you then you see people
01:45:08
on the other side of it and they sort of
01:45:09
re reverse age as well. Like they as
01:45:12
soon as people get out of that job, it
01:45:13
looks like a weight off their shoulders.
01:45:15
>> Well, it it just get it opens up. You
01:45:18
know it's a little bit like things have
01:45:20
been so extreme that the reverse of that
01:45:23
it doesn't take much to have a you know
01:45:25
a different but it is very difficult in
01:45:29
the life within parliament and and
01:45:31
politics that you don't get access. He
01:45:35
is on the move the whole time and he
01:45:38
wants to be out in the community. He's
01:45:40
not interested in staying in Wellington
01:45:42
and staying at his office. So he will be
01:45:44
out meeting people and doing things as
01:45:45
much as he can interfacing. But the
01:45:48
consequence of that is that he he is
01:45:51
booked from 6:00 in the morning till
01:45:53
10:00 at night and you go where is lunch
01:45:55
in there and there isn't. And then
01:45:57
you're on the road so there's no place
01:45:59
to get the lunch and I'm not always with
01:46:02
him. If I'm with him I make sure um my
01:46:04
eye my teacher's eye.
01:46:06
>> You don't want a a Hipkin situation
01:46:07
where he's on sausage rolls all day.
01:46:09
>> No. No. No.
01:46:11
>> All right. Are you super strict? Okay.
01:46:13
What?
01:46:14
>> Well, no, it's not it's not that. It's
01:46:15
just that if you if you don't if you
01:46:19
know if you don't put some rules down,
01:46:21
then there's just not the alternatives.
01:46:23
Do you know what I mean? And so the
01:46:25
natural thing is you go for the quick
01:46:27
the quick energy boost or what you can
01:46:30
get on the go, which is never the best
01:46:33
thing. So, um there are things that are
01:46:36
good for you, Dom, as you know, and
01:46:38
things that are not good for you. So,
01:46:40
yeah. So,
01:46:41
>> what what um when you're not around, uh
01:46:44
what sneaky treats treats is he having?
01:46:47
>> I've got no idea cuz I'm not around.
01:46:49
Occasionally, occasionally I get a call.
01:46:53
Someone's dobbed him in. Um but he does.
01:46:55
>> A bunning sausage. He must love a
01:46:57
bunning. Everyone loves a bunning
01:46:58
sausage.
01:46:58
>> Bunning sausage. Um he does have a
01:47:01
tendency though like um I'll go, "Oh,
01:47:05
what happened um to that packet of
01:47:08
blah?" and he'll go, "Oh, I I just had
01:47:12
two." And I'll go,
01:47:15
"Pardon, because here's the packet." No,
01:47:19
I only had two. And I think he
01:47:20
fundamentally believes he's only had
01:47:22
two, but he's just been absorbed in
01:47:25
something else and might have had a few
01:47:27
more than two. So, um, yeah. So, um, we
01:47:30
try our best, but circumstances
01:47:32
overcome. And when you are so tired and
01:47:35
you can't get access to things, it is
01:47:37
really hard. is is definitely a thing
01:47:39
that most politicians would say is one
01:47:41
of the challenging things.
01:47:42
>> Yeah, of course you you make the poor
01:47:43
choices when um he's a brisk walker
01:47:46
though. E I think he's the fastest
01:47:48
walking politician I've ever seen. You
01:47:49
see him going through an airport or
01:47:51
going anywhere, he he's got quite the
01:47:53
cadence.
01:47:53
>> Well, you know, it's you you've got
01:47:55
purpose. You got to get from A to B.
01:47:58
>> But help you if you've got high heels.
01:48:00
By the way,
01:48:01
>> if you if you guys are walking, say
01:48:03
you've got a a quiet Sunday and you're
01:48:05
walking to a cafe, does he walk at that
01:48:06
pace or is it a slower walk?
01:48:08
>> Um uh if we're walking to a cafe, well,
01:48:11
if we're walking to a cafe, I want him
01:48:13
to walk faster because we're walking for
01:48:15
a purpose. Um but through the airports,
01:48:18
like we have a whole contingent with
01:48:19
him. So, it's like you try to be direct.
01:48:22
Um, when we're walking on the beach,
01:48:24
I'll tell him to put a hat on and look
01:48:26
down because if he looks up, then he
01:48:28
makes contact with people and he wants
01:48:29
to talk to them. And it's like, you're
01:48:31
not talking to people. But, but it's
01:48:33
such and such or they're very
01:48:35
interesting and he he wants to engage.
01:48:37
Um, so I have to be quite strict and
01:48:39
say, look down, don't look, don't look.
01:48:41
And it's like, and people want, you
01:48:43
know, we're walking through airports and
01:48:44
people want to shake his hand. He's
01:48:45
good. He gives a lot of time and and
01:48:47
enjoys it. Um, I'm a little bit more
01:48:50
let's just get there cuz my feet are
01:48:51
killing me. Yeah. Well, it's such an
01:48:53
important part of that job. Like someone
01:48:54
someone someone meets you, you make a
01:48:56
good impression and they'll they'll
01:48:58
potentially give you their vote.
01:49:00
>> Yeah. And actually, it's not even that.
01:49:01
It's just a way of overcoming what we've
01:49:03
talked about. And in fact, when you do
01:49:05
meet him, you go, "Oh, you're not what I
01:49:08
think." Um, but there are millions of
01:49:10
people in New Zealand and he can't meet
01:49:13
every single person. He meets a lot of
01:49:15
people and it's very exhausting and he
01:49:17
gets out and meets as many as he can and
01:49:19
he will talk and spend time with as many
01:49:21
people as he can. It's it's really one
01:49:24
of his great skills and gifts. He's a
01:49:26
very people orientated person. Um and he
01:49:29
does it so well and he what he
01:49:30
remembers. It's like
01:49:32
>> wow.
01:49:32
>> Yeah. I I he continues to amaze me with
01:49:36
what he can do and what he can achieve.
01:49:37
So um but um yeah. So,
01:49:40
>> we we sort of touched upon earlier the
01:49:42
um yeah, keyboard cowards. Um and
01:49:45
there's always a very very big
01:49:46
difference about the things people will
01:49:48
do on a keyboard rather than what
01:49:50
they'll do in in in real life or face to
01:49:52
face. What what what are the most
01:49:55
negative encounters you guys ever
01:49:56
experienced in public?
01:49:58
>> Someone yelling out from a car? No, the
01:50:00
probably the most negative thing for me
01:50:02
is um 4:00 a.m. in the morning outside
01:50:05
our front gate um with loud speakers um
01:50:10
and drums um yelling abuse at me and my
01:50:13
children um because they're protesting
01:50:16
something. So, we had a lot of issues
01:50:18
with that and and that's just we've got
01:50:20
children that live around us and and
01:50:22
that's just not okay that people think
01:50:24
that they can there's ways and forums of
01:50:27
protesting and I really really support
01:50:29
protest. Um but coming into someone's
01:50:32
community and being very abusive um
01:50:35
there's nothing to be gained from that.
01:50:37
So, that that's probably, you know, the
01:50:40
worst thing. Um, I I'm good at blocking
01:50:43
it out and um I don't hear what they
01:50:45
say, but it's it's just wrong on all
01:50:47
levels. You know, protest in the right
01:50:50
places at the right time.
01:50:51
>> It's like Winston Peters having a a
01:50:53
brick thrown through his window.
01:50:54
>> Yeah. Well, it's the same kind of thing.
01:50:55
They would throw a brick if they could
01:50:57
get it over the gate, I think. Um, but
01:50:59
you know, they just do really random
01:51:01
things. You wouldn't you wouldn't
01:51:03
believe the random things. Yeah.
01:51:04
>> Yeah. For you, look, what does a good
01:51:06
life look like to you right now? Is this
01:51:08
it?
01:51:10
Oh, look, we chose to come into this and
01:51:13
um at the moment this is where we
01:51:15
believe is the right place. Um
01:51:18
Christopher can do a lot of good. You
01:51:20
know, things were bad and he's really
01:51:21
making a difference. And um and um so
01:51:26
that's what we've chosen to do. So my
01:51:28
father gave me two pieces of really good
01:51:30
advice in life. One was don't borrow any
01:51:32
money other than for a mortgage. Thank
01:51:34
you, Dad. Um, but the other thing which
01:51:37
I often go back to is he goes, "Don't
01:51:40
don't look back on a decision." And it's
01:51:42
actually a very simple piece, but it's
01:51:44
really good. Make your decision at the
01:51:46
time and then step in and and don't keep
01:51:48
looking back. Was it the right decision?
01:51:50
Was it not? So, at the moment, for this
01:51:52
time, and we can continue to evaluate
01:51:55
that decision because it we get the
01:51:58
choice. We get the choice to stay, we
01:51:59
get the choice to go, you know, whatever
01:52:01
it is. So at the moment, this is where
01:52:03
we want to be. Um and um yeah, the good
01:52:07
life is trying to really um keep going
01:52:10
with that mission and and just keeping
01:52:12
um keeping us um really healthy and um
01:52:17
and together and cuz there's a lot of
01:52:20
other stuff that can be interfer. Yeah.
01:52:22
>> Yeah. 100%. Any any um All Blacks I've
01:52:25
had on the podcast all say the same
01:52:26
thing. Their big goal is to make the All
01:52:28
Black and All Blacks. And when they do
01:52:30
that, the next goal is to become a great
01:52:31
All Black. Yeah.
01:52:32
>> So, if we um transfer that like yourself
01:52:36
and Christopher's goal was to become
01:52:37
prime minister. You've done that. Um
01:52:39
what does it look like to be a great
01:52:40
prime minister?
01:52:42
>> Um I think that he is a great prime
01:52:44
minister. So, I think that's a misnomer
01:52:46
because if you um and you know, I could
01:52:50
be personally biased. I mean, I'm not
01:52:51
sure why, just putting it out there, and
01:52:53
you may disagree with me, but I've been
01:52:56
on the sidelines observing where we've
01:52:58
come from and what we've done. Um, and
01:53:01
again, people have different ideas about
01:53:03
how you achieve it. But um, I mean, he
01:53:06
took a party that was very dysfunctional
01:53:09
and within um, a matter of months turned
01:53:12
that party into a very, very um, good
01:53:15
party. when he took over as um as uh
01:53:19
leader of the opposition, they gave him
01:53:20
a 5% chance um of winning the election,
01:53:25
5% and he still took the job on knowing
01:53:28
that if he didn't win then that would be
01:53:30
he would have to leave politics. So that
01:53:32
was a big huge risk because it was a
01:53:34
really weird time. So um I actually
01:53:37
think he is a really I think he's one of
01:53:39
the best prime ministers that we've had
01:53:42
because he the international
01:53:44
relationships that he is building we
01:53:46
don't get to see it in New Zealand but
01:53:48
you know he is he is on talking to world
01:53:51
leaders making those connections
01:53:53
building those trade agree so he's doing
01:53:55
all of those things and he has got
01:53:58
things turned over I mean he is it
01:54:02
needed to have a big turnover from where
01:54:05
we were and very few people can do that
01:54:07
and it's one of the good things he does
01:54:08
and so he has done that turnaround on
01:54:12
many fronts and there's a lot involved
01:54:14
in that and he's very good and very
01:54:16
clever and he is a very good leader and
01:54:19
that's an unusual thing he empowers
01:54:21
people he he's an amazing problem solver
01:54:24
so there's lots of things that aren't
01:54:26
obvious in the beginning but um I I
01:54:29
think he is a a great prime minister as
01:54:32
it is yeah
01:54:34
>> you both married, right? Eh. Yeah. I
01:54:37
like
01:54:37
>> I'm lucky. I think I'm the luckiest girl
01:54:40
alive because Yeah, he's um Yeah, he's
01:54:44
he's pretty amazing. And I feel that my
01:54:47
life has been so enriched
01:54:49
>> with him as my my best friend. Um and
01:54:54
the things that I have done, partly
01:54:57
because of what he's done, but but what
01:54:58
he's encouraged me to do. Um, I I I can
01:55:04
do be everything except for in the
01:55:08
Australian Open.
01:55:11
>> No, there's a few things I can't do. I'd
01:55:13
like to think I could do them, but um
01:55:15
>> Well, that's inspirational. I I I could
01:55:18
be imagining it, but it looked like your
01:55:19
eyes were getting glassy then.
01:55:20
>> Please, please don't. There are no tears
01:55:22
in my eyes.
01:55:23
>> I am not welling up thinking about that.
01:55:25
Please.
01:55:26
>> Actually, just a little bit.
01:55:28
>> That's really sweet. Yeah. Well, you
01:55:31
know, it's a big it's a big part of your
01:55:33
life and he's a very important person to
01:55:35
me. So, yeah. Yeah. And I do genuinely
01:55:38
feel just very lucky that he is such a
01:55:40
big part of my life and
01:55:42
>> he's helped me produce two really,
01:55:44
really, really amazing kids that I just
01:55:46
love being with. And yeah, he's that
01:55:49
that's him and us together. So, I I feel
01:55:51
lucky not everybody has it. So, yeah.
01:55:52
Yeah.
01:55:53
>> Well, I think this conversation's been
01:55:55
really revealing. It's been like a
01:55:56
really interesting
01:55:57
>> I hope not too revealing. Will I get
01:55:59
will I get some comments? I'm not
01:56:01
worried now. I'm going to have to listen
01:56:02
to the transcript. Did I give you too
01:56:03
much information?
01:56:04
>> Well, no. I think it's I think it's
01:56:06
good. Like people will make their own
01:56:07
mind up and there's some people whose
01:56:09
mind you're just never going to change.
01:56:11
Actually, those people probably won't
01:56:12
even listen to it. But
01:56:13
>> no, and that's your prerogative, isn't
01:56:15
it? That your prerogative is to have
01:56:17
your choice over something. Um I'm
01:56:20
always really The last thing I'll say is
01:56:22
it is always really important to me that
01:56:24
you never attack an individual and
01:56:26
particularly in politics. It is
01:56:27
essential. Anybody in public um service
01:56:31
deserves respect no matter who they are
01:56:33
or where they're from. Um you have every
01:56:36
right to say I disagree with the process
01:56:38
or I disagree with the result. But you
01:56:41
should never ever uh personally attack
01:56:45
and you will never ever ever hear me or
01:56:47
Christopher actually vilify or attack an
01:56:51
individual person no matter who they
01:56:53
are. you know, deal to their record, but
01:56:56
everybody deserves to be treated well
01:56:58
and treated with respect and a lot of
01:57:00
sacrifice for these jobs. People don't
01:57:02
realize um and it's not everybody's cup
01:57:05
of tea, but you know, people deserve
01:57:08
respect for that.
01:57:09
>> Yeah, it's a brutal game politics. Um I
01:57:11
can tell how just how proud you are of
01:57:13
um Olivia and William and Christopher.
01:57:15
Are you proud of yourself?
01:57:17
>> Oh, interesting question. Um um I think
01:57:21
pride's an interesting word cuz it kind
01:57:23
of is a good word, but it's a slightly
01:57:26
sort of has a slight egotistical word. I
01:57:29
think um I think the biggest thing that
01:57:32
I'm proud about myself or not really
01:57:35
proud about myself but is is meaningful
01:57:38
to me is when I'm able to have an
01:57:40
opportunity to actually build really
01:57:44
strong and meaningful relationships with
01:57:47
people and then if that means that I can
01:57:50
add value to their life in any way um or
01:57:53
I can share their life I think they are
01:57:55
the moments that probably um I enjoy and
01:57:59
want to be able to do the most. So, um I
01:58:02
I don't think in this job there's time
01:58:04
for pride anyway. So,
01:58:06
>> a lot of New Zealanders, especially I
01:58:08
think of our age, find it difficult to
01:58:10
answer that.
01:58:10
>> Yeah.
01:58:11
>> It just feels I don't know, vain or
01:58:12
inward or something.
01:58:13
>> No, but do you know what I mean? There's
01:58:14
moments that you enjoy and can relate
01:58:18
to, gosh, I've been in and I've done
01:58:20
that and that's great, but it's like
01:58:22
Yeah. I don't think pride is something
01:58:23
that we necessarily focus on so much.
01:58:25
Yeah.
01:58:27
Oh, it says on the screen, no more
01:58:28
questions, please.
01:58:29
>> Oh, no more questions. I did say it
01:58:31
said, "Your time's nearly up. Stop
01:58:32
talking, Amanda." But, um, you know,
01:58:34
there's
01:58:35
>> Was there when you came in today, was
01:58:36
there anything that you hoped we'd talk
01:58:38
about that we haven't got to or?
01:58:40
>> No, I had I had no expectations. And and
01:58:43
you know, you just said it's just just a
01:58:45
chat. And so, um, you know, it's lovely
01:58:48
because I am not a political figure. I
01:58:51
will never enter into that space. Um and
01:58:54
so I will never respond to any of that
01:58:56
but it's really lovely to be able to
01:58:58
have a conversation about um things that
01:59:01
elevated things as well because there is
01:59:02
some lovely conceptual things that you
01:59:05
know if you talk about you know like you
01:59:07
know how do we build resilience in our
01:59:09
kids or things like that and those
01:59:11
conversations are really good
01:59:12
conversations to have and everybody can
01:59:14
bring something to the table and so you
01:59:17
know I have a little bit to bring but
01:59:19
lots of other people do as well so yeah
01:59:21
but Um, yeah. So, it's been fun. Yeah.
01:59:24
>> Amanda Luxen, thank you so much for
01:59:26
coming on my podcast. It has been fun.
01:59:27
>> You're welcome. Thank you. It's been
01:59:29
It's been really fun. Thanks, Dom.
