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Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD

February 04, 2026 / 01:15:44

This episode features Dr. Kieran Kennedy, a psychiatrist and ADHD specialist from New Zealand, discussing ADHD, its misconceptions, and the importance of understanding neurodivergence. Key topics include the stigma surrounding ADHD, the differences in presentation between genders, and the impact of ADHD on relationships and self-esteem.

Dr. Kennedy emphasizes the need for a shift in perception regarding ADHD, highlighting that it is not a defect but can come with unique strengths. He explains how ADHD can manifest differently in adults compared to children, often leading to misdiagnosis, particularly in women.

The conversation also covers the assessment process for ADHD, the challenges faced in accessing treatment, and the potential benefits of medication versus lifestyle changes. Dr. Kennedy shares personal anecdotes and insights from his practice, aiming to demystify ADHD and encourage open discussions about mental health.

Listeners are encouraged to seek help if they suspect they have ADHD and to understand that mental health issues are just as valid as physical health concerns. Dr. Kennedy also suggests resources for further information on ADHD.

This episode aims to provide clarity and support for those navigating ADHD, emphasizing the importance of understanding and acceptance.

TL;DR

Dr. Kieran Kennedy discusses ADHD, its misconceptions, and the importance of understanding neurodivergence in this insightful episode.

Episode

1:15:44

00:00:00

Welcome to the Domavvey podcast. Great

00:00:02

conversations with fascinating people.

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This episode's guest is Dr. Kieran

00:00:08

Kennedy, also known as the hot dog. He's

00:00:11

a New Zealand born and trained

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psychiatrist and ADHD specialist.

00:00:15

Shifting away from thinking about autism

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and ADHD and neurode divergence as being

00:00:19

this blanket negative or a defect or a

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failing, that's where we need to shift

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away from. A lot of people with ADHD are

00:00:28

incredibly creative. They're incredibly

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successful.

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>> The goal of this episode is to cut

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through the noise and misinformation

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surrounding ADHD and get good advice

00:00:38

from one of Australasia's most qualified

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experts. I hope you like it.

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>> Dr. Kieran Kennedy, welcome to my

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podcast.

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>> Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.

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>> Well, look at this. The hot dog. Is Is

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it helpful or a hindrance being an

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attractive dog?

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>> Well, I'm going to sound like a prick

00:00:53

however I answer that.

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Um, look, I mean, it meant for some some

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fun um, you know, patient experiences

00:01:01

during medical school things in some

00:01:03

ways, but yeah, maybe I'm gym obsess

00:01:06

bodybuilding doctor isn't what a lot of

00:01:08

people expect possibly, but

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>> yeah, cover boy as well. You've been on

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the cover of Men's Health magazine. Um,

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and if you go to your Instagram page,

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there's some modeling shots there and

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you're like, I want this guy to be my

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doctor.

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>> I was going to say either people are

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going to say that or they're going to

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say, get me out of his clinic right now.

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Um, but no, so yeah, I've dabbled in a

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few different things alongside medicine,

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so keeps it interesting.

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>> Well, I put on Instagram that you're

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coming in so I could outsource some

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questions. And I was thinking the

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questions would be um in particular in

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relation to your specialty, which is

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ADHD, and most of them were um but there

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was there was one um annoying one from a

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friend of mine, Annie,

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>> just saying um who's middle-aged by the

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way, a married mom of two. She says, "Oh

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my god, I think I just developed ADHD."

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Hello, Dr. Kennedy. Oh my god, I think

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I've also just become a cougar.

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>> Do you get do you get a bit of that in

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your line of work?

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>> A little bit. I mean, I think thankfully

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being a psychiatrist means the patient

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doctor boundaries are pretty firm with

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psychiatrists, but um yeah, a little

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bit. like you know a lot of joking which

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is good but probably as we'll go into as

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well I think maybe looking not your

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stereotypical psychiatrist and doing

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fitness modeling and bodybuilding and

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things I think it's it's now meant that

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I in a weird way get to do things like

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this because I think that's kind of what

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kicked off a lot of this initial media

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work and speaking work and I think

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people were interested to talk to

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someone about touchyfeies and mental

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health but who also was kind of doing

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bodybuilding shows and things So yeah,

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it's been a bit of a wild career rides,

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but um yeah, no, I mean, thank you Annie

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for that. That's

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>> I appreciate it.

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>> Far too.

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>> So you're um yeah, you're based in

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Sydney and you're like the um the the

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the go-to guy on the the Australia and

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Sydney media scene when it comes to

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anything professional related to ADHD.

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What brings you back to New Zealand at

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the moment?

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>> Uh visiting family. Yeah. So Faro brings

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me back here pretty regularly. So, it's

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um yeah, it's always so nice to be back

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in Oakuckland. Like, I grew up in Wuku,

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so not too far from Oakland, but then

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>> moved into the Big Smoke for uni and

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went to Oakland University for for way

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too many years, to be honest. Um so,

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yeah, spent a lot of life here in

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Oakland before, you know, um please

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don't come for me, but moving over to

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the ditch in terms of being in Sydney

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now. So, yeah, it's just lovely to come

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back and visit mom and dad and my

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brothers and

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>> and things. So, it's so nice to be home.

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So, who who was Kieran Kennedy before he

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was a doctor? Yeah. Rural upbringing.

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>> Good question. Yeah. Um, yes. Rural

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upbringing. Yep. So, I grew up in Wuku.

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Uh, my both sides of my family had dairy

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farms. So, my dad's side and mom's side

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both had big dairy farms out there out

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in sort of um Ottowaka and then the Afu

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Peninsula. So, grew up Yeah. basically

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just pretty typical, I guess, jumping in

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creeks and running around cow sheds and

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and things. Um, so that was kind of

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early life, which again is is wild to

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think that I'm kind of doing what I'm

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doing now. But yeah, I just absolutely

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loved kind of being outside and and farm

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life and things when I was a kid. So it

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was a great place to grow up.

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>> Was that ever an option to become like a

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farmer?

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>> Yeah, I mean it was I remember there was

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one point cuz I have three brothers, so

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kind of a big family of boys. There was

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a point where I remember I think it was

00:04:33

my mom's side of the the farm. There was

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a bit of a is it kind of going to be

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sold up once once granddad passed away

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and things or do any of you boys kind of

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want to move into farming? Um none of us

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did. We sort of wanted to to go our own

00:04:47

path which is a bit sad to think now but

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yeah no for me I I think not. I was um

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always a bit more into the books. Was a

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bit of a bookworm probably by that stage

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rather than being on the farm. So

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probably lucky cows that I didn't go

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into that. I think much more books now.

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What? Yeah. What drew you towards

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medicine? Where where did where did that

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sort of um interest or intrigue begin?

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>> Yeah. Well, I think I always I mean,

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initially I wanted to be a vet for a

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long time. I I just loved being out on

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the farm and I loved animals. You know,

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dad was also a bit animal obsessed. So,

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there was just chickens and birds and

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dogs, cats, everything else when we were

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growing up. So, always sort of knew that

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I sort of loved biology and nature and

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wanted to help people or animals

00:05:31

initially in some way. And then I think

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as I kind of moved through college and

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got older, I realized I loved just

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rambling with people and talking and

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hearing their stories. And so I think

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that's when I pivoted and said, "We'll

00:05:43

give med school a crack." So

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>> yeah, for better or worse. Um, but here

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we are now. So it's Yeah.

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>> So how how do you end up in psychiatry

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and and what does it sort of mean

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specifically?

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>> Yeah, it's a good question because I

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often, you know, I think there's quite a

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bit of confusion around psychiatrist,

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psychologist, kind of the different

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terms and things. So a psychiatrist I

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guess in a nutshell is a doctor who has

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specialized and done training in mental

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health. Um so we train in depression,

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anxiety, schizophrenia. There's also

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quite a lot of neurology and brain sort

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of training too. So um that's sort of a

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doctor who specialized there and then

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psychology um is equally if not more

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important. But a psychologist is someone

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who might help people through talking

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therapy and different things. Um but

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yeah for me I started doing a psychology

00:06:32

degree at Oakland University and then

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after I finished that degree I decided

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you know um I would dive into doing

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another five years of study and went to

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Oakland medical school and the rest is

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history. So yeah got a wee bit swayed by

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the bright lights of plastic surgery and

00:06:47

surgery for a while. I actually really

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enjoyed that as a student but I think I

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always knew that I was going to go into

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psychiatry because I loved psychology

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and just talking to people really. So,

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it's um yeah, it was a bit of a clearcut

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path for me really.

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>> Oh, did you look at the plastic surgery

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thing, did you?

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>> I did. Yeah, really. I mean, not talking

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boob jobs and things like that, but um

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yeah, I love I mean, I did a a stint in

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plastic surgery at Middlemore Hospital

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when I did my internship and it's just

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fascinating stuff. you know, that

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reconstructive plastic surgery. If

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people are in burns or they're in car

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accidents and they need sort of

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reconstructive work to their face,

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there's sort of breast cancer removal

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and breast augmentation and things. It's

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it's just amazing surgery. So, got a

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little bit swayed there for a while, but

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I think

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>> Oh, that sort of plastic. I was thinking

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more like Hollywood or Housewives of

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Melbourne.

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>> Yeah. Not quite. I mean, who knows where

00:07:44

I'd be now and what I'd be doing if I

00:07:46

went down that path, but um yeah, no,

00:07:48

the the public plastic surgery is a lot

00:07:51

different to that sort of cosmetic

00:07:53

plastics. Um but yeah, I think

00:07:55

eventually always knew I was going to

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move into psychiatry and just have

00:08:00

always had a real passion for mental

00:08:02

health really. So, it's um yeah, I sort

00:08:05

of stepped away from any inklings of

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surgery and and then started my

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psychiatry training in Oakland

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initially.

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>> Yeah. When we when we set this podcast

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up, I I thought, how are we going to

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structure it because there's so many

00:08:16

there I mean there's so many um angles

00:08:18

and directions we could go in. You've

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even written a book about mental health

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and that's one of your sort of I suppose

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passions I guess men's mental health. Um

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that could be a podcast for another day

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all on its own. Um ultimately I decide

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the direction to go in is ADHD because

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there's so much um

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>> I don't know, so much stigma about it,

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so many questions about it, so many um

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>> so much online. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. So much BS. So how did Yeah. How

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did you get into that as sort of an area

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of expertise?

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>> Yeah, interesting. in terms of sort of I

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did my general psychiatric training and

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initially that was in Oakland and then I

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moved over to Melbourne um initially

00:08:55

when I went to Australia to finish my

00:08:58

training there at the Alfred Hospital in

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Melbourne and I sort of did my training

00:09:03

in what they call consult liaison

00:09:05

psychiatry which is working in the

00:09:07

hospital and it's when I guess physical

00:09:09

health conditions that are impacting the

00:09:11

brain end up affecting our mental health

00:09:13

our mood or causing psychotic symptoms.

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So, a real interest in brain development

00:09:18

and that kind of intersection. And I

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guess that fell into then becoming

00:09:22

really interested in

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neurodedevelopmental conditions, uh,

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autism, ADHD,

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>> and kind of as, as luck would have it, I

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guess it was around that same time that

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I finished my training that Australia,

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but also just the world was exploding in

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terms of of awareness for ADHD and

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information slash, as you say, BS on

00:09:43

social media about ADHD. And so there

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was just a real need for psychiatrists

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to be working in that area and sort of

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came across an opportunity for for

00:09:52

further training in ADHD specifically

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and then work within a clinic. So yeah,

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it's been quite a few years now that

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I've just specialized in seeing mainly

00:10:00

adults for ADHD diagnosis and treatment

00:10:03

and support and

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>> it's just a fascinating area but sort of

00:10:07

also lends itself to sort of speaking

00:10:10

and TV work and media work because there

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is a lot of misinformation around it as

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well.

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>> Do do you have ADHD yourself?

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>> I don't. No. Which I think is why I find

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it so fascinating to be honest. Um I get

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asked that question quite a lot. Um but

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yeah, I think in a lot of ways my brain

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is quite neurotypical and sometimes I I

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think um you know I would like a little

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bit of spice. I would like a bit of

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neurode divergence sometimes.

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>> Well, could could someone with ADHD um

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like do the work required to get through

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medical school?

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>> Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

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you know, I think as we'll go into ADHD

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and neurode divergence, autism as well,

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you know, I often talk to patients about

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it being a bit of a double-edged sword

00:10:50

sometimes. There are a lot of things

00:10:51

about ADHD that can make the world we

00:10:53

have to live in now very difficult. But

00:10:56

there are a lot of things about ADHD as

00:10:58

well that can absolutely be a bit of a

00:11:00

superpower to use that kind of bit of a

00:11:02

corny overuse phrase. But, you know, it

00:11:04

can absolutely drive a lot of, you know,

00:11:07

real passion and interest, creativity,

00:11:09

hyperfocus, you know, and and I know um

00:11:13

doctors and and people I went to med

00:11:14

school with even who have ADHD

00:11:16

diagnoses. So, it's it's definitely not

00:11:18

a block to anything. Um,

00:11:21

>> so yeah.

00:11:22

>> Well, I've got a couple of establishment

00:11:23

questions and then I've got um the

00:11:25

questions that I outsourced from

00:11:26

Instagram. Um, I do this often with

00:11:29

guests and I don't I don't recall ever

00:11:30

having as many questions on one subject

00:11:32

as what there's been for this.

00:11:34

>> Yeah. Well, that's great.

00:11:35

>> So, first of all, um, for people that

00:11:37

are new to it, what is ADHD? I remember

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growing up, um, it was called ADD and it

00:11:41

was generally naughty kids at school or

00:11:43

kids with behavioral issues.

00:11:45

>> Yeah, absolutely.

00:11:46

>> Is it the same thing?

00:11:47

>> It is the same thing. It's kind of we

00:11:49

used to talk about it more separately as

00:11:51

being hyperactivity or attentional

00:11:54

issues. And so ADD was kind of the the

00:11:57

old terminology, but I guess attention

00:12:00

deficit hyperactivity disorder. ADHD as

00:12:04

we know it now, it's a combination of

00:12:06

what we call inattentive symptoms. So

00:12:08

that can look like struggling to focus,

00:12:11

being really distractable to things

00:12:13

around us. It can be issues with memory,

00:12:15

time management, organization. And then

00:12:18

there's that more stereotypical

00:12:20

classical hyperactivity side to ADHD.

00:12:23

And that's what we used to sort of think

00:12:25

about with ADHD was sort of, to be

00:12:27

honest, that stereotypical naughty

00:12:29

little boy that was running around the

00:12:30

classroom and not able to sit still or

00:12:32

kicking desks over, whatever it was. Um,

00:12:35

but hyperactivity can look like really

00:12:37

struggling to sit still, being

00:12:39

overactive, over talkative, struggling

00:12:42

with impulse control.

00:12:43

>> So, what we know ADHD is now is often a

00:12:47

really complex mixture of those

00:12:49

different symptoms for people. And it's

00:12:51

absolutely not that stereotypical old

00:12:54

school view of ADHD, which is why I

00:12:57

think there's been a bit of an explosion

00:12:58

now for adults especially realizing they

00:13:01

have this because it's it's not

00:13:02

necessarily the loud overactive kind of

00:13:05

naughty kid or teenager or adult. It can

00:13:09

look really really different for

00:13:10

different people.

00:13:11

>> Why do you think there has been like a

00:13:13

sudden explosion in it? It feels like

00:13:14

since I don't know maybe 2020, the last

00:13:16

half decade.

00:13:17

I don't know, maybe it's the rise of Tik

00:13:20

Tok as well. I don't know. What do you

00:13:21

think? Why is it suddenly everywhere?

00:13:23

>> Yeah. I mean, I definitely think,

00:13:27

you know, I have a bit of a lovehate

00:13:29

relationship with with social media when

00:13:31

it comes to medical and health stuff.

00:13:33

You know, I think there's been a lot

00:13:34

more information shared from people

00:13:36

themselves around having ADHD and what

00:13:38

that looks like. Uh and then there's

00:13:40

just been a lot more awareness I think

00:13:43

for kids but also adults around what

00:13:45

ADHD can look like and particularly for

00:13:48

women you know for girls and women. We

00:13:50

now know that so many girls were missed

00:13:53

when it comes to diagnosis of ADHD

00:13:55

during childhood and and adolescence

00:13:57

because they didn't look like that

00:13:58

stereotypical loud naughty overactive

00:14:02

hyperactive boy. And so now I think a

00:14:05

lot of people that were younger during

00:14:07

that time have now hit adulthood and

00:14:10

we've become aware that ADHD can look

00:14:12

very different. So more people are

00:14:13

presenting for assessment and diagnosis.

00:14:16

So there's a lot out there around rising

00:14:19

rates of ADHD and autism and neurode

00:14:22

divergence and you know we can go down

00:14:24

the the Trump rabbit hole if we want to

00:14:26

but a lot of misinformation around

00:14:28

what's the Tylenol thing.

00:14:30

>> Oh my god, don't even get me started.

00:14:32

But you know, so there's misinformation

00:14:34

about why ADHD rates are rising, but a

00:14:38

lot of it comes down to the fact that

00:14:40

there's a different way of diagnosing

00:14:41

ADHD now. And we also know that

00:14:43

especially for adults, ADHD can look

00:14:45

very different and can actually be quite

00:14:47

subtle in a lot of ways. So that sort of

00:14:49

led to a bit of an explosion of info

00:14:51

online and on social media, on Tik Tok,

00:14:53

but also a bit of an explosion of of

00:14:55

people now seeking out diagnosis.

00:14:58

>> What are some of the some of the most

00:15:00

common traits? And then maybe just a

00:15:02

couple of the less common traits as

00:15:03

well.

00:15:03

>> Yeah, I mean the most common would be

00:15:06

sort of the inattentive side actually

00:15:09

especially for adults. And so that would

00:15:11

look like really struggling to focus is

00:15:13

a very very common kind of core symptom.

00:15:15

People might find it difficult to focus

00:15:17

in lectures or with reading or study if

00:15:20

they're studying. They might find it

00:15:21

difficult to focus on tasks for work or

00:15:24

even chores at home. They find that they

00:15:26

just lose their focus. they get very

00:15:28

distracted and jump into other things

00:15:30

without finishing the first thing. Um,

00:15:32

so that's common. Um, hyperactivity is

00:15:35

still also common in adults, but rather

00:15:37

than being, you know, a little kid

00:15:39

rushing around and and sort of smashing

00:15:41

windows or anything like that, for

00:15:42

adults that might just look like being

00:15:44

very uncomfortable and restless if we

00:15:47

have to sit still. Or it might look like

00:15:49

never really resting or slowing down.

00:15:51

You know, I think we all know someone

00:15:53

who is kind of constantly rushing around

00:15:55

and busy, never stopping, always on the

00:15:57

go. So, that's really quite common as

00:15:59

well. Probably less common symptoms that

00:16:02

people maybe wouldn't really realize can

00:16:04

be difficulty actually retaining

00:16:06

information. So, a lot of patients I see

00:16:09

actually struggle to take in information

00:16:12

that they've read or if they've talked

00:16:14

to someone, they're sort of nodding

00:16:16

along and smiling politely, but then

00:16:17

when that person walks away, they they

00:16:19

realize they they didn't take any of

00:16:21

that in and they have no idea what they

00:16:22

just asked them to do. So, retention and

00:16:25

memory is is part of ADHD. And then

00:16:28

impulsivity as well. And again, for

00:16:31

adults, that's not always looking like

00:16:33

struggling with alcohol or drugs or, you

00:16:36

know, buying Porsches on a whim. It can

00:16:39

often look like struggling to manage

00:16:40

your finances or being impulsive in your

00:16:43

dating life or impulsive with decisions.

00:16:46

Um, so it can kind of look quite

00:16:48

different and subtle and people often

00:16:50

don't think that those things can be

00:16:52

part of ADHD.

00:16:54

with with your vast experience and

00:16:56

knowledge, can you see someone and sort

00:16:57

of go, you've probably got ADHD?

00:17:00

>> Uh,

00:17:00

>> or is it just way more complex than

00:17:02

that?

00:17:03

>> Look, sometimes I can, you know, amongst

00:17:06

friends and people I meet, I think

00:17:08

they're often like, please don't analyze

00:17:10

me, like cover your eyes, kind of thing.

00:17:12

Um, look, I mean, sometimes it can be

00:17:15

quite clear that someone might be

00:17:16

struggling to focus or they might be

00:17:17

quite hyperactive, but a lot of the

00:17:19

time, again, I think for adults, it's

00:17:21

it's actually quite complex and and

00:17:23

quite sort of internal. So, you know,

00:17:26

the ADHD assessment process really is

00:17:29

quite in-depth in terms of teasing out

00:17:31

and talking about a lot of these things.

00:17:33

Um, I think I've got a pretty good

00:17:34

barometer now for meeting patients and

00:17:37

kind of getting a gut feel pretty early

00:17:39

for, you know, whether we're looking at

00:17:42

ADHD or neurode divergence or maybe

00:17:44

we're looking at an anxiety disorder

00:17:46

that is also impacting someone's

00:17:48

attention and focus. So, yeah, I think

00:17:51

I've got a reasonable barometer, but um

00:17:53

I promise I switch it off when I'm not

00:17:55

in the

00:17:56

>> You're not judging judging people every

00:17:57

second.

00:17:58

>> No, I'm not analyzing people in the

00:17:59

supermarket. Thank god. I think that

00:18:01

would drive me nuts. But um yeah, pretty

00:18:04

good read otherwise.

00:18:05

>> Okay. Um as I said, I outsourced to

00:18:07

Instagram. Um so there's a ton of

00:18:09

questions here. So they may not go they

00:18:11

might be sort of scatter gun. They might

00:18:13

sort of go backwards and forwards. Um

00:18:14

but we'll run through these.

00:18:16

>> If ADHD presents itself differently in

00:18:19

people, how can you tell if someone has

00:18:21

it?

00:18:22

>> A really really great question. I think

00:18:25

it's sticking to the core symptoms in

00:18:28

terms of what I guess the DSM which is

00:18:31

our diagnostic manual that psychiatrists

00:18:33

use to kind of diagnose conditions in a

00:18:36

structured way around the world. There

00:18:39

are still a very kind of set you know uh

00:18:43

number of criteria I guess for meeting a

00:18:45

diagnosis. So, I guess the key for me if

00:18:48

I'm assessing someone, for example, is

00:18:50

to move through those symptoms, but

00:18:53

really try and tease out with that

00:18:55

person how it affects them because

00:18:57

struggling to focus for me might not

00:19:00

look like struggling to focus for you

00:19:03

depending on the type of work you do or

00:19:04

if you're studying. So it can be tricky,

00:19:07

but I guess it's kind of the

00:19:09

underpinning is that we go off those

00:19:10

core inattentive and hyperactive

00:19:13

symptoms and then from there we tease

00:19:15

out how those things impact someone. So

00:19:18

it is complex and and everyone can be

00:19:20

different, but there are sort of core

00:19:22

symptoms and things that we know really

00:19:25

look and feel and sound like ADHD. And I

00:19:27

guess those things kind of are the core

00:19:29

structure to an ADHD diagnosis that

00:19:32

everyone needs to meet.

00:19:35

How long has ADHD been around? I'm 70

00:19:37

and all of a sudden it's everywhere.

00:19:38

Yeah,

00:19:39

>> really good question. I think Yeah, my

00:19:41

grandma asked me the same thing not that

00:19:43

long ago really.

00:19:43

>> Um yeah, she was like it just was never

00:19:45

around when when we were at school and I

00:19:48

sort of

00:19:48

>> but but it was around but it just wasn't

00:19:50

diagnosed or it was left untreated.

00:19:52

>> Definitely. it was probably just wasn't

00:19:53

recognized for most people. And if it

00:19:55

was recognized, it was again, as we've

00:19:57

said, it was those, you know, kids that

00:20:00

were just absolutely not able to sit

00:20:01

still or they were running around or

00:20:03

being really disruptive. And

00:20:05

>> unfortunately, for a lot of those kids,

00:20:07

it wasn't noted as being ADHD. It was

00:20:10

labeled as just really naughty or really

00:20:13

bad. You don't want to work at school.

00:20:16

So,

00:20:17

>> it's always been there. Um but

00:20:19

absolutely, you know, it's it's

00:20:20

something that's just really come more

00:20:22

to the four recently. But it is a

00:20:24

diagnosis in some form that's been

00:20:26

really kind of talked about in present

00:20:28

sort of even from the the 1960s, the

00:20:30

'7s. And so it's been around for a long

00:20:32

time. I think it's now more that we're

00:20:35

just really really recognizing how it

00:20:36

can impact kids and adults in a more

00:20:39

subtle way. So

00:20:42

>> what's going on the on what's going on

00:20:44

in the brain of someone with ADHD?

00:20:46

>> Yep. Love that one. Um, basically, you

00:20:48

know, we could definitely talk for an

00:20:50

hour about that, but I might put you to

00:20:52

sleep. I promise I won't. Um, I guess in

00:20:54

a nutshell, we know with ADHD

00:20:57

from that point of birth really,

00:21:00

someone's brain is developing just

00:21:02

slightly different when they have ADHD

00:21:04

compared to someone who doesn't. And

00:21:05

that's the crux of a

00:21:06

neurodedevelopmental disorder. And so in

00:21:09

ADHD, we know that there are pathways

00:21:12

and circuits in the brain that just

00:21:14

function a little bit differently in

00:21:16

terms of dopamine, neurochemical levels,

00:21:19

stimulation levels compared to someone

00:21:21

who doesn't have ADHD. And a lot of that

00:21:24

is to do with the preffrontal cortex and

00:21:26

the frontal lobe, which people might

00:21:28

have heard about. That's really involved

00:21:30

in a lot of our attentional, motivation,

00:21:33

memory, personality based aspects. And

00:21:35

so it's those connections and circuits

00:21:38

in particular that we know just work

00:21:40

slightly differently for people with

00:21:41

ADHD. It's definitely not that they are

00:21:44

underworking, overworking, that they're

00:21:46

damaged or defective or flawed. It's

00:21:49

just that we know there's a spectrum of

00:21:51

the way the brain can develop and

00:21:53

operate. And for people with ADHD,

00:21:56

their development of certain areas is

00:21:58

just on a slightly different part of

00:22:00

that spectrum to someone who doesn't

00:22:01

have ADHD. And as we've said, that can

00:22:04

affect how much you focus, how

00:22:06

destructible you might be, how restless

00:22:08

you are when you're sitting still. Um,

00:22:10

so it's sort of a bit of a complex mix

00:22:12

of different chemical balances and and

00:22:15

circuitry in the brain that's just

00:22:16

slightly different.

00:22:17

>> Yeah. So you're born with it.

00:22:18

>> Yeah. So the

00:22:19

>> And is it is it exasperated with screen

00:22:22

time or

00:22:24

>> you're depleting your dopamine or

00:22:25

anything like that or

00:22:26

>> Yeah, we definitely know those things

00:22:28

can impact. So I guess like autism, the

00:22:32

current understanding of ADHD is that

00:22:34

it's it's something that we are sort of

00:22:36

born with in terms of how the brain

00:22:38

develops across childhood and across our

00:22:41

life. So that's a key part of the

00:22:42

diagnosis for adults is actually looking

00:22:45

back to early symptoms that were there

00:22:47

during your childhood or primary school

00:22:49

years.

00:22:51

And so we know there's that kind of

00:22:52

genetic or biological underpinning, but

00:22:55

then absolutely different things that

00:22:57

come our way across childhood,

00:22:59

potentially even screen time and other

00:23:01

things that can impact our focus time

00:23:03

and things that can potentially buffer

00:23:06

symptoms here and impact how prominent

00:23:08

they are or how much they get displayed

00:23:10

or not displayed.

00:23:11

>> Um, so yeah, it's a bit of a complex

00:23:13

mixture of your genetics and your

00:23:14

biology, but then also what your brain's

00:23:17

exposed to as you grow up as well. for

00:23:20

people who suspect they might have it.

00:23:21

What's what's the next step? What does

00:23:22

the assessment process look like?

00:23:24

>> Yeah, I love this one. I mean, I was

00:23:25

hoping this was going to come up because

00:23:27

I think this is one of the hardest

00:23:28

parts, especially for adults. It's well,

00:23:30

how the heck do I go about getting this

00:23:32

sorted then? For New Zealand and

00:23:35

Australia, it's very similar really. So,

00:23:37

I think the first port would be to see

00:23:39

your GP really or if you have a

00:23:40

psychologist, also talking to your

00:23:42

psychologist. And at the moment anyway,

00:23:45

it's then getting an appointment to see

00:23:47

a psychiatrist who has experience with

00:23:50

ADHD and is able to provide that

00:23:52

diagnostic assessment. Psychologists can

00:23:55

also diagnose ADHD, clinical

00:23:57

psychologists and developmental

00:23:59

psychologists. Um, but I guess in terms

00:24:01

of moving into treatment, especially

00:24:03

medication, it would be getting a

00:24:05

referral from your GP to meet with a

00:24:07

psychiatrist. That kind of needs to lend

00:24:10

itself to that pathway. Um there are

00:24:12

some changes potentially coming in in

00:24:14

New Zealand and Australia in coming

00:24:16

years actually where GPS are potentially

00:24:19

going to have further training to be

00:24:21

able to potentially diagnose and then

00:24:23

also treat ADHD too. And I guess that

00:24:26

comes from the fact that there's a real

00:24:28

bottleneck I think especially for people

00:24:29

in New Zealand when it comes to actually

00:24:32

accessing a psychiatrist. You know there

00:24:34

can be really long wait times and it can

00:24:36

also be really expensive to to get a

00:24:39

private ADHD assessment. it sort of can

00:24:41

be in the the thousands of dollars type

00:24:43

range.

00:24:44

>> So, sort of giving GPS more scope and

00:24:48

experience to potentially also help

00:24:50

diagnose ADHD is something to hopefully

00:24:53

kind of open up that access for people.

00:24:55

But yeah, I think if anyone is sitting

00:24:57

here thinking, [ __ ] I might have ADHD,

00:25:00

it would be starting with your GP and

00:25:02

booking an appointment there to just

00:25:04

discuss that and and then getting a

00:25:06

referral from there. Mhm.

00:25:07

>> I think you answered the next question

00:25:10

uh in that answer. Someone wanted to

00:25:11

know why is it such a long and costly

00:25:12

process. I think you answered that

00:25:14

there's just there's so many people that

00:25:15

want to get checked and so few

00:25:17

gatekeepers.

00:25:18

>> Absolutely. And even within psychiatry,

00:25:20

it's still quite a subsp specialized

00:25:23

field to work in. So you know if there's

00:25:25

x number of psychiatrists in the country

00:25:28

there will only be a very small

00:25:30

proportion of those psychiatrists who

00:25:32

feel comfortable or are trained or are

00:25:34

able to diagnose and then treat and

00:25:37

manage ADHD. So it's kind of a bit of a

00:25:40

bottleneck type situation at the moment.

00:25:42

But also you know ADHD really being a

00:25:45

private psychiatric um sort of diagnosis

00:25:49

at the moment too means that the cost

00:25:51

involved in that can be quite high. So,

00:25:54

you know, without getting on my soap box

00:25:55

too much today and and ranting about

00:25:57

politics, you know, I think for

00:25:59

Australia, but also New Zealand, future

00:26:02

work around ADHD needs to come with

00:26:04

opening up potential public, you know,

00:26:08

services and and um access for people

00:26:10

because that financial barrier is a

00:26:12

significant one for a lot of people. You

00:26:14

know, rightly so. people can't

00:26:16

necessarily afford to be paying

00:26:18

>> $1,500 or $2,000 to see a psychiatrist

00:26:22

for a diagnosis. So,

00:26:24

>> we do really need some shift to happen

00:26:25

there in the system as well.

00:26:27

>> Is that the sort of amount you can

00:26:28

expect to pay to be tested

00:26:30

>> potentially? Yeah, there's a there's a

00:26:31

huge range. So, there will absolutely be

00:26:34

hopefully, you know, some access that's

00:26:36

cheaper than that, but absolutely. I

00:26:38

mean, especially in Australia, people

00:26:40

paying significant kind of costs to see

00:26:43

a psychiatrist for ADHD. And again,

00:26:46

that's I think come around that demand

00:26:49

supply side and and the bottleneck kind

00:26:51

of model in terms of there are just a

00:26:53

lot of people waiting for ADHD

00:26:55

assessments. Um, you know, and I will

00:26:58

also say it's because there's a lot of

00:26:59

work that goes into the diagnostic

00:27:02

process as well. There's a lot of kind

00:27:03

of moving through scales, looking at

00:27:05

school reports. there's significant time

00:27:08

and often multiple sessions included in

00:27:10

the diagnosis. So I guess in terms of

00:27:12

seeing a specialist for that multiple

00:27:14

times overall the cost can be

00:27:16

significant. Yeah.

00:27:19

>> With that with that in mind is that is

00:27:21

it sort of like a privilege condition

00:27:23

and what what I mean is that um like if

00:27:26

I'm if if I'm work at the Bluebird

00:27:28

factory and I'm on minimum wage and I've

00:27:29

got three kids at home, the last thing

00:27:30

I'm going to do is put 1,500 bucks into

00:27:32

a diagnosis.

00:27:33

>> Yeah. 100%. And and I definitely think

00:27:35

that's part of it, you know, and that's

00:27:37

why some of the the systems around

00:27:40

mental health in general for New Zealand

00:27:42

and Australia, but especially conditions

00:27:43

like ADHD, that really needs to change

00:27:46

and there needs to be more support, I

00:27:48

think, from public health services and

00:27:50

the government to open up access here.

00:27:52

And that might look like making sure

00:27:54

more public clinicians are sort of able

00:27:57

to diagnose but also supporting people

00:27:59

maybe in terms of public funding for for

00:28:02

psychiatric assessments for ADHD as well

00:28:05

because absolutely you know I think it's

00:28:07

it is in some ways a bit of a privileged

00:28:10

position to a be able to think about

00:28:13

well your focus and destructibility and

00:28:16

some of these symptoms um but also then

00:28:19

afford to take a hit out of a family's

00:28:22

savings or income to to get this

00:28:25

assessment and and the diagnosis as

00:28:27

well. It's it's significant. So that

00:28:28

really needs to change.

00:28:30

>> Yeah. Cuz that could be the difference

00:28:31

between taking your family away for

00:28:32

Christmas holiday or even having a

00:28:33

Christmas and not does it matter if it's

00:28:36

undiagnosed?

00:28:38

>> Really depends. You know, I think this

00:28:39

is an interesting thing around neurode

00:28:41

divergence as well because I really

00:28:44

really want to make it clear for people

00:28:45

that having ADHD, autism, neurode

00:28:48

divergence, this is not a blanket

00:28:50

negative, you know, it's not a defect or

00:28:52

a flaw or a mutation. It's not because

00:28:55

of Tylenol or paracetamol obviously, you

00:28:58

know, and so for a lot of people living

00:29:00

with ADHD especially, it can have a lot

00:29:02

of strengths and great things to it. And

00:29:05

if that's the case, people might not

00:29:07

necessarily feel they need to get a

00:29:09

formal kind of medical diagnostic stamp

00:29:11

or get treatment. You know, even

00:29:14

personally, I know people who, you know,

00:29:16

we think, well, probably there's a a

00:29:18

little bit of a whiff of ADHD there, but

00:29:20

they're really happy. It's serving them

00:29:22

in their lives. They're not feeling it's

00:29:24

sort of enabling sort of disabling them

00:29:26

in any way. And so, someone in that sort

00:29:29

of boat might not want to seek out a

00:29:31

formal diagnosis or get treatment. And I

00:29:33

think that's really important to call

00:29:35

out. But where it does tip into causing

00:29:38

significant negative impacts or

00:29:40

impacting someone's potential with study

00:29:42

or work or relationships, that's when it

00:29:45

obviously borders into that disorder

00:29:47

territory and where someone really might

00:29:49

feel they need that medical kind of

00:29:51

diagnosis and treatment and support.

00:29:53

>> Yeah. Is it um is it incorrect or even

00:29:58

offensive if someone that doesn't have a

00:29:59

diagnosis like talks about oh you know

00:30:01

my ADHD brain potentially. I mean, and

00:30:05

again, I think that's where some of that

00:30:07

stigma comes in around, you know, even

00:30:10

now, you know, we hear it and and it's

00:30:12

out there in terms of like, oh, yeah,

00:30:15

he's got ADHD, or like, well, my ADHD is

00:30:18

playing up again, you know, and I think

00:30:20

it can be used in a bit of a

00:30:22

stigmatizing way in terms of sometimes

00:30:24

it's to do with things that just aren't

00:30:26

ADHD at all, you know. So, it definitely

00:30:29

can tip into that. And that's where

00:30:30

again I think that stereotypical view of

00:30:33

a little boy struggling to sit still in

00:30:35

class and being really naughty and

00:30:37

misbehaving. That's where that kind of

00:30:39

stigma and stereotype can carry over a

00:30:41

bit still.

00:30:43

>> Yeah. I suppose that leads onto this

00:30:44

question. Uh what can I say to shut down

00:30:47

people who say h everyone's got ADHD

00:30:49

these days? It really grinds my gears.

00:30:51

>> Yeah. And I absolutely hear you. You

00:30:53

know, I think for people who have a

00:30:55

diagnosis of ADHD or think they might,

00:30:58

this can be one of the hardest parts

00:31:01

about living right now with neurode

00:31:03

divergence. You know, I think there's so

00:31:05

much online and in social media and

00:31:07

there's all this misinformation. I think

00:31:09

people who are concerned they might have

00:31:12

ADHD can often kind of gaslight

00:31:14

themselves a little bit to be honest and

00:31:16

and say well you know everyone saying

00:31:18

they have it now or people are talking

00:31:21

about having ADHD if they you know can't

00:31:24

focus on their phone for 5 seconds you

00:31:26

know and and so that is really difficult

00:31:29

I think in terms of how we might respond

00:31:31

to someone saying that in terms of oh no

00:31:33

you don't have it everyone's got ADHD

00:31:36

that's definitely not the case everyone

00:31:38

might struggle with focus. At points,

00:31:40

all of us might forget something or mix

00:31:42

someone's name up or if we're sitting in

00:31:45

a car for two hours, we might feel a bit

00:31:47

antsy and restless. So, everyone

00:31:49

potentially struggles with features that

00:31:52

can look and feel like ADHD, but not

00:31:54

everyone has the certain clustering of

00:31:58

those symptoms at a severe enough level

00:32:01

to warrant an ADHD diagnosis. So, yeah,

00:32:04

I don't know. without saying jog on. I

00:32:06

mean, I think I think if people are kind

00:32:08

of hearing that, it would be, you know,

00:32:10

just politely letting them know that um

00:32:13

absolutely not everyone has ADHD. About

00:32:16

2.6%

00:32:18

of New Zealand adults have a diagnosis

00:32:21

of ADHD. Um so it's definitely not

00:32:23

everyone, but it is a significant

00:32:25

number. And probably the number of

00:32:26

adults that

00:32:27

>> have it, but don't have a diagnosis yet

00:32:29

is quite a lot more than that. So again,

00:32:32

I think there's this a bit of a

00:32:34

misconception in terms of just we're

00:32:36

hearing so much about it. It feels like

00:32:38

everyone's bloody got it or thinking

00:32:40

they've got it, but it it actually still

00:32:42

is quite a a subsp specialized kind of

00:32:44

not overly common condition in a lot of

00:32:46

ways, too.

00:32:47

>> Yeah. 2%'s tiny.

00:32:49

>> Yeah,

00:32:49

>> that really surprises me. Does it does

00:32:51

it um change or evolve with age? like

00:32:53

does it does it do the symptoms get uh

00:32:56

you know worse or better or

00:32:58

>> yeah I mean it really depends on the

00:32:59

person but for a lot of people it can

00:33:01

change and get better. So for a lot of

00:33:03

adults with ADHD if they were really

00:33:06

quite hyperactive or more physically

00:33:08

restless and things as a child that

00:33:11

often gets better as we get older for

00:33:13

adults it sort of tempers itself a bit

00:33:15

but also understandably as we get older

00:33:17

we get a little bit better hopefully at

00:33:19

containing some of that energy or

00:33:21

impulsivity. So adults are more likely

00:33:23

to have the more focus, attention, time

00:33:26

management, memory side of symptoms

00:33:29

because the hyperactive side often

00:33:31

changes. So it can definitely change

00:33:33

over time. Um, something else I want to

00:33:35

let people know is that it can sort of

00:33:37

change as well across your life

00:33:38

depending on what's on your plate, you

00:33:40

know. So I often meet people for the

00:33:42

first time who have always struggled a

00:33:46

little bit, but maybe then they've had

00:33:47

their first child. And so for women,

00:33:50

often ADHD can really start to ramp up

00:33:52

and impact things more when they're just

00:33:54

juggling more. They're juggling a

00:33:56

toddler now as well as trying to go back

00:33:58

to work. Or I might meet someone who's

00:34:01

had a promotion at work and suddenly the

00:34:04

increased demands of their new job makes

00:34:07

focus and memory and attention really

00:34:09

really start to ramp up and impact their

00:34:11

ability to work. So symptoms can

00:34:14

definitely change in flux depending on

00:34:15

what's going on in our life, how much

00:34:17

pressure is on our brain, also even

00:34:19

other mental health struggles. It can

00:34:21

worsen if we're depressed or anxious

00:34:23

too.

00:34:24

>> Does it present differently in men and

00:34:26

women?

00:34:27

>> Can do. Yeah. So women, especially as

00:34:29

adults, are more likely to have more

00:34:31

internal or inattentive symptoms. So

00:34:34

women are more likely to struggle with

00:34:37

focus, memory, time management, that

00:34:39

side of things. They're also more likely

00:34:41

to feel hyperactivity in terms of

00:34:44

restlessness and fidgeting or wanting to

00:34:47

talk or interrupt others. But women are

00:34:49

far more likely to contain those

00:34:52

symptoms. And so a lot here is also to

00:34:54

do with that socialization of girls and

00:34:57

women in terms of well if you're a good

00:34:59

girl then you are quiet and you behave

00:35:02

and you sit still in class. Whereas for

00:35:05

boys and men in terms of the boys will

00:35:07

be boys and no he's just a you know a

00:35:09

young lad boys are more able to express

00:35:13

hyperactivity and energy and loudness.

00:35:16

So I actually meet a lot of women who

00:35:18

have always kind of sat holding in this

00:35:21

kind of sense of restlessness and

00:35:23

fidgeting and impulsivity because for

00:35:26

various reasons, you know, girls and

00:35:28

women are kind of taught from a young

00:35:30

age that they really just need to be

00:35:32

quiet and polite and behave and they

00:35:35

need to contain those symptoms. So it

00:35:37

definitely can look a lot different for

00:35:39

for men and women because of kind of

00:35:41

biology, but also because of kind of

00:35:43

stereotypes around masculinity and

00:35:45

femininity and what's okay to express or

00:35:48

show as a man versus a woman.

00:35:51

>> Yeah. With that in mind, what's the

00:35:52

reaction do you see when adults get

00:35:54

diagnosed? Is it um like is it um is it

00:35:57

is it is it crushing? Is it a sense of

00:35:59

relief? Is there shame or what is it?

00:36:03

>> Yeah. I mean, any one of those words

00:36:05

you've just said, Dom, is like pretty

00:36:07

common. Um, I often talk to people about

00:36:09

it feeling like a weird mixture of

00:36:11

emotions. Lots of patients tell me

00:36:13

there's a sense of

00:36:14

>> real relief, you know, validation.

00:36:17

They've kind of maybe thought

00:36:18

something's there or something's wrong

00:36:20

or difficult for quite a long time,

00:36:23

maybe years or decades. So, often, you

00:36:26

know, when I tell people at the end of

00:36:27

the assessment, you know, yes, I do

00:36:29

think you have ADHD. For a lot of

00:36:31

people, it's quite emotional in terms of

00:36:33

being this overwhelming relief and a

00:36:36

sense of validation. You know, I think a

00:36:38

lot of adults might have grown up being

00:36:40

told they were lazy or they were dumb.

00:36:43

That's something I hear a lot is people

00:36:44

sort of saying, "Well, I just always

00:36:46

felt like maybe I was dumb because I

00:36:48

couldn't keep up in class." So,

00:36:50

>> it's often really positive and

00:36:52

validating, but then there can be a

00:36:54

mixture of sort of a little bit of grief

00:36:56

and even anger and sadness, too. I think

00:36:59

for a lot of adults getting diagnosed,

00:37:01

there's often a bit of sadness and

00:37:03

frustration and anger around the fact

00:37:05

that well, I very clearly had these

00:37:07

symptoms as a kid or I was really

00:37:09

struggling in school, but people just

00:37:11

told me I was naughty or lazy or, you

00:37:14

know, I wasn't smart. So, there can

00:37:16

often be a bit of a weird kind of

00:37:18

melting pot of different emotions with

00:37:20

it.

00:37:20

>> Yes. It's almost like a sense of

00:37:22

validation in a way for Yeah. Oh, that's

00:37:24

sad. Someone said, um, what would be the

00:37:26

benefits of me getting tested and

00:37:27

diagnosed? I'm a 50-y old male.

00:37:30

>> Really good question. Um, I think it

00:37:32

depends for me as a psychiatrist, it

00:37:35

depends on how much you think those

00:37:37

symptoms are impacting your life,

00:37:39

>> you know, at whatever age you're at,

00:37:41

whether you're in your 50s or you're in

00:37:43

your 70s. You know, I've met people in

00:37:44

their 60s and 70s for ADHD assessments

00:37:47

and diagnosis. And again, whether it's

00:37:50

work, whether it's family life, whether

00:37:52

it's things with sports or hobbies, I

00:37:55

think if there are things with potential

00:37:57

focus or hyperactivity where you feel

00:38:00

actually this is impacting my life, it's

00:38:02

affecting my mood, it's affecting my

00:38:04

family life, it's affecting my ability

00:38:06

to progress my hobby or career in this

00:38:09

way. no matter what age you are, you

00:38:12

know, I think someone can then benefit

00:38:14

from knowing the diagnosis is there and

00:38:17

even potentially seeking out treatment

00:38:18

to improve those things too. I think

00:38:21

again it can be a little bit of a stigma

00:38:22

or a stereotype that ADHD and autism and

00:38:25

things are just things that kids get

00:38:27

diagnosed with and that you know if

00:38:29

you're beyond that then there's really

00:38:30

no point. But um it again depends on how

00:38:33

much someone thinks this is impacting

00:38:34

their life in a negative way.

00:38:37

Um there's a term that gets thrown

00:38:38

around a bit these days. Um active

00:38:40

relaxer.

00:38:41

>> You've heard active relaxer. Is is that

00:38:43

an ADHD thing or not? It can be but not

00:38:46

always.

00:38:46

>> It might be. Yeah. You know, I think a

00:38:48

lot of people with ADHD that have more

00:38:50

maybe hyperactive traits, they really

00:38:53

would not feel that it's relaxing or

00:38:55

comfortable in any way to just blob on

00:38:58

the couch or watch a movie or Love

00:39:00

Island for six episodes.

00:39:02

>> Yeah. Exactly. you know, I mean, I might

00:39:03

love that, but I think for for someone

00:39:05

with hyperactivity or ADHD, for them

00:39:08

that would often actually feel really

00:39:10

quite uncomfortable to to relax and rest

00:39:13

with doing nothing. So, for them, they

00:39:16

might find themselves actually much

00:39:18

happier and more relaxed in a way if

00:39:20

they are active and on the go. They're

00:39:22

into sport or exercise or doing

00:39:24

different jobs or diving into the

00:39:25

backyard. But again, I think it's

00:39:28

important to call out, as with a lot of

00:39:30

these things, just because someone's an

00:39:32

active relaxer doesn't necessarily mean

00:39:34

they have ADHD. I think personalitywise

00:39:37

and and for other reasons, a lot of

00:39:39

people actually just prefer to be active

00:39:41

and on the go. And exercise or running

00:39:43

or sport for them is is a real mindful

00:39:46

relaxing thing. So, yeah, bit of an

00:39:48

annoying psychiatristy answer to say it

00:39:50

can be, but also it might not be.

00:39:52

>> No, no, no, that's a great answer. Thank

00:39:53

you. Um on Instagram someone asked uh

00:39:57

there's a common saying just try the

00:39:58

medication and if it works you've got

00:40:00

ADHD. Is there any truth to that or is

00:40:02

that just a myth?

00:40:03

>> Bit of a myth. Yeah, I often hear that

00:40:05

one too. People are like well if you

00:40:07

take rolin and it just you know makes

00:40:09

you want to party or it does nothing

00:40:12

then that shows you don't have ADHD. Um

00:40:15

that's not wholly true you know

00:40:18

unfortunately. I mean, it might put me

00:40:20

out of a job if that was the way we

00:40:22

worked out how people, you know, how we

00:40:24

sort of work out the diagnosis. Um, but

00:40:27

no, you know, I think even people with

00:40:29

ADHD,

00:40:31

not all of the medication is helpful for

00:40:33

all people with ADHD. So someone with

00:40:35

ADHD might be prescribed rtoolin for

00:40:38

example as a common treatment a common

00:40:40

medication and even though they have

00:40:42

really significant ADHD that medication

00:40:44

just might not actually do much for them

00:40:46

or help them with focus or calming. Um

00:40:50

so yeah I think doing the old trying one

00:40:53

from a friend or something and then

00:40:55

working out whether you have it based on

00:40:57

that. Um, yeah, bit of a myth.

00:41:00

>> That must um Does that grind you a

00:41:01

gears? Like you you've done 10 years of

00:41:03

study or whatever it is and someone that

00:41:05

reads something online thinks they can

00:41:07

bypass that.

00:41:08

>> Oh, sometimes, you know, I'm not going

00:41:11

to lie, in terms of some of the stuff we

00:41:13

see on social media, you know,

00:41:15

Instagram, Tik Tok, some of it is really

00:41:18

not very helpful. Um, and you know,

00:41:21

again, with all respect to everyone

00:41:23

else, there there's a lot of people

00:41:24

online giving people really quite

00:41:28

significant health advice actually. Um,

00:41:31

and again, it's with respect that, you

00:41:32

know, sometimes I might think, well, you

00:41:35

haven't actually done a psychology

00:41:37

degree. You're not a doctor. Um, but

00:41:40

again, it depends. I think when people

00:41:42

are sharing their personal experience

00:41:44

and things they've heard and seen what

00:41:45

works for them,

00:41:47

>> that's amazing. I love that. And I love

00:41:49

that about social media now in terms of

00:41:51

getting people's experience and

00:41:53

knowledge out there. But yeah, when it

00:41:56

tips into people kind of giving health

00:41:59

advice or feeling that they maybe might

00:42:02

know better than a health professional,

00:42:03

that can get a little bit dangerous and

00:42:05

a little bit gear grinding at times.

00:42:07

>> Yeah. Yeah. Calm down. You've got

00:42:08

200,000 followers, but you really know

00:42:10

[ __ ]

00:42:11

>> But I mean, that's currency these days.

00:42:13

That beats my medical degree.

00:42:15

>> Yeah. 200,000 followers. you can

00:42:17

probably earn more than what you're

00:42:18

earning with your degrees.

00:42:19

>> Absolutely.

00:42:20

>> Um, what can someone expect when they

00:42:22

start taking ADHD medicine?

00:42:25

>> Uh, really good question. I mean, in

00:42:27

terms of, let's say, the classic what to

00:42:29

expect if the medication's working and

00:42:32

working well, someone might notice or

00:42:34

expect their focus and attention to

00:42:37

improve. They might just be able to

00:42:39

stick with a task for longer without

00:42:41

getting distracted or their mind

00:42:43

wandering. They might have less

00:42:44

procrastination, be able to start things

00:42:47

better. If someone's actually quite

00:42:48

hyperactive, they might feel like their

00:42:50

brain and body are actually just a lot

00:42:52

calmer and more able to sit in a meeting

00:42:55

or sit for study or or different parts

00:42:58

of work.

00:42:59

>> But again, you know, it's why I love

00:43:01

what I do. But it's very very

00:43:03

individual. You know, there's no kind of

00:43:05

blanket statement of you take the

00:43:07

medication and then you will feel this

00:43:09

way. Because just like ADHD can look at

00:43:11

different for everyone, the effects of

00:43:13

the medication can also look different

00:43:15

for everyone as well. So it's a very

00:43:17

individual kind of unique thing in terms

00:43:19

of what it actually does and how it

00:43:21

works.

00:43:22

>> Those first things that you said um that

00:43:25

would feel like a gamecher I think for a

00:43:26

lot of people.

00:43:27

>> Yeah.

00:43:28

>> It would be like an epiphany.

00:43:30

>> Absolutely. You know, and part of the

00:43:32

reason I love this work as well is when

00:43:34

we get the diagnosis right and we

00:43:37

prescribe the right treatment and it

00:43:39

works and maybe someone's also getting

00:43:41

psychology support and things when it

00:43:43

all sings like that, it can be

00:43:46

absolutely lifechanging for people, you

00:43:48

know, and there's heaps of different

00:43:49

things I hear from people in terms of

00:43:51

how it helps them. But, you know, it's

00:43:53

it's always so rewarding to come back

00:43:56

and meet someone for a follow-up session

00:43:58

after we've started medication and to

00:44:00

have them say, "Oh my god, like I never

00:44:02

realized that other people's brains

00:44:05

aren't just constantly full of noise and

00:44:08

random songs and thoughts and looking at

00:44:10

that bird outside the window." You know,

00:44:13

people actually feeling like their brain

00:44:15

quiet, you know, quiets down even that

00:44:19

can just be lifechanging for people. So

00:44:22

it can be really really helpful and

00:44:23

effective.

00:44:24

>> Can can it be successfully managed

00:44:27

without medication?

00:44:29

>> Absolutely.

00:44:29

>> Yeah. And I think this is really really

00:44:32

important because I think a lot of the

00:44:33

stuff and especially what we see online

00:44:35

about ADHD is very medication focused

00:44:39

and I think especially that's a bit of a

00:44:41

worry sometimes for parents in terms of

00:44:43

kids. Um, but definitely there are uh

00:44:46

massively kind of um effective

00:44:48

treatments for ADHD that don't involve

00:44:50

medication. There's ADHD specific

00:44:53

psychology and coaching and obviously

00:44:56

that takes a little bit more work and

00:44:58

time than taking a tablet, but that is

00:45:01

just as effective for a lot of people as

00:45:03

a medication. So, there are definitely

00:45:05

things on that front. And then we also

00:45:08

know, which I really froth over as well,

00:45:10

we know that there's a lot of things

00:45:11

just lifestyle and physical health-wise

00:45:13

that can help improve ADHD as well. We

00:45:16

actually know that exercise and sport

00:45:18

can kind of cause a a dopamine change in

00:45:21

the brain in the same way certain doses

00:45:23

of medication can. So regular exercise

00:45:26

and activity for people with ADHD is in

00:45:30

a way also actually treating and

00:45:32

improving ADHD symptoms. diet, sleep,

00:45:36

looking after your mood and anxiety

00:45:38

levels. All of these things can be

00:45:40

massively helpful to improving ADHD. And

00:45:43

so sometimes what we do is work with

00:45:45

people around those things and we might

00:45:47

never actually touch medication at all.

00:45:50

>> All those things you said um they're

00:45:52

they're just generally good for a

00:45:53

person's overall well-being, aren't

00:45:55

they?

00:45:56

>> 100%. you know, and I think that's when

00:45:57

I first especially started getting into

00:45:59

the media and speaking kind of work in

00:46:01

medicine was because people were sort of

00:46:04

like this is kind of weird for a dude

00:46:07

working in mental health to also be

00:46:08

bodybuilding.

00:46:10

But for me it was almost a bit weird

00:46:12

that we weren't thinking that those

00:46:14

things should go hand in hand because

00:46:17

exercise, sport, our diet, our sleep,

00:46:20

getting out in nature, we now know that

00:46:23

all of these things have a massive kind

00:46:25

of part to play when it comes to how our

00:46:28

general mental health is doing as well.

00:46:29

So

00:46:30

>> that's definitely true for ADHD as well.

00:46:32

>> Oh yeah, just a sidebar, there's um

00:46:35

nothing worse than an unfit doctor, eh?

00:46:37

>> Wow.

00:46:38

Like does it annoy you when you see

00:46:40

someone that's giving out medical advice

00:46:41

and they can't take, you know, great

00:46:43

care of themselves?

00:46:44

>> Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's tricky,

00:46:46

isn't it? Because I think doctors are

00:46:49

also just people, you know, and I think,

00:46:51

well, God, we won't even go there, but I

00:46:53

think doctors can have their own vices

00:46:55

in so many ways and struggle with, you

00:46:58

know, similar things. And you know I I

00:47:01

think it's really really important the

00:47:02

main part is that that doctors are kind

00:47:04

of not bringing their personal side of

00:47:07

things into recommendations for

00:47:08

patients. But

00:47:10

>> yeah I mean god all of us are just human

00:47:12

too and so I think doctors can struggle

00:47:14

with weight and health and exercise and

00:47:16

things just as much as others as well.

00:47:19

>> What misconception about ADHD frustrates

00:47:22

you the most as a psychiatrist?

00:47:25

>> That's a really good one. I mean, I

00:47:27

think for me it would be something we've

00:47:29

already touched on, which is that sense

00:47:30

of h everyone has ADHD now or I've

00:47:34

actually even unfortunately heard it

00:47:35

from medical colleagues as well in terms

00:47:38

of h this isn't even a real condition.

00:47:41

This is something that's just made up so

00:47:42

private psychiatrists and can make money

00:47:45

and you know go away to Europe on their

00:47:47

holidays and so that's

00:47:50

>> Did you go to Europe on your holiday?

00:47:52

I may have actually, but you've really

00:47:55

dropped me in at.

00:47:59

Yeah. [ __ ] I kind of walked into that

00:48:00

one, didn't I?

00:48:01

>> But a European summer is wonderful.

00:48:03

>> That had nothing to do with my work.

00:48:06

>> No, but you know, I think it's that it's

00:48:08

it's the stigma side of it. And it's not

00:48:11

just with ADHD, but it's it's medicine

00:48:13

in general. I think there can be still a

00:48:17

massive amount of stigma around mental

00:48:21

health and psychiatry. And so that is

00:48:24

kind of one of the main things that

00:48:25

frustrates me in terms of, you know,

00:48:27

even unfortunately hearing from GPS

00:48:30

sometimes in terms of GPS having told

00:48:32

their patients, oh, you don't have ADHD.

00:48:35

That's just something that everyone

00:48:36

thinks they've got now. And if you see

00:48:38

the psychiatrist, they'll definitely say

00:48:40

you have it because they, you know, are

00:48:42

telling everyone they've got it. And

00:48:44

that is just absolutely not true. And

00:48:47

also it's just very damaging and

00:48:49

discriminatory not only to my profession

00:48:51

but to people living with with mental

00:48:54

illness or living with ADHD or autism.

00:48:56

So yeah, that's definitely my soap boxy

00:49:00

kind of gear grind. That's for sure.

00:49:02

>> How do you distinguish between someone

00:49:04

genuinely struggling with ADHD and

00:49:06

someone simply caught in modernday

00:49:08

distraction?

00:49:09

>> Yeah. And I mean, that's a big part of

00:49:11

of my work. And when I meet someone for

00:49:13

an ADHD assessment, that's probably the

00:49:15

hardest part, actually, is trying to

00:49:18

work out, well, are you experiencing

00:49:21

struggles with focus and attention and

00:49:23

memory because we're looking at ADHD, or

00:49:27

are you struggling because you are

00:49:29

juggling three jobs and you don't sleep

00:49:33

more than three hours a night? or maybe

00:49:35

you have depression, maybe you have an

00:49:38

anxiety disorder. And so all of these

00:49:40

other things, including modern-day

00:49:42

pressures, can sometimes kind of really

00:49:44

make it tricky to work out what's

00:49:46

causing what. Um, often, again, I mean,

00:49:50

someone who's trained as a psychologist

00:49:52

or a psychiatrist to diagnose ADHD,

00:49:54

that's a big part of it is teasing out

00:49:56

what's going on here. But definitely a

00:49:59

part of the ADHD assessment process is

00:50:02

making sure that there isn't another

00:50:04

condition or something else going on

00:50:06

here that actually might be kind of

00:50:08

>> masking and looking like ADHD. So a big

00:50:11

part of my work is also sometimes

00:50:13

telling people I don't think you have

00:50:16

ADHD. I think you have an anxiety

00:50:18

disorder or you might actually have

00:50:21

bipolar disorder. You might have

00:50:23

depression. And so kind of helping

00:50:25

support people with treatments and

00:50:27

avenues for those things even as an

00:50:29

initial step and then coming back to see

00:50:31

if ADHD is there underneath. That's a

00:50:34

big part of the process as well.

00:50:35

>> Oh, that's interesting. It it can sort

00:50:37

of present as those other things as

00:50:38

well.

00:50:39

>> Definitely. Wow.

00:50:40

>> So I think we don't think enough about

00:50:42

that side of depression and anxiety

00:50:44

disorders or other mental health

00:50:46

conditions. But

00:50:47

>> that's so interesting.

00:50:48

>> Absolutely. If someone has a really

00:50:51

nasty sort of dug in anxiety disorder,

00:50:54

let's say generalized anxiety disorder

00:50:56

or panic disorder, that can absolutely

00:51:00

shortcircuit our ability to focus or not

00:51:03

get distracted or remember things. If

00:51:06

someone is really depressed, what it can

00:51:09

actually do is affect the cognition of

00:51:11

the brain and even look like dementia

00:51:13

for some people if they're significantly

00:51:15

depressed. So part of ADHD assessment is

00:51:19

also making sure there isn't something

00:51:21

else going on that is kind of causing

00:51:24

the same symptoms that might look like

00:51:26

ADHD. So

00:51:27

>> it's definitely a a pretty complex kind

00:51:30

of process as well to tease all that

00:51:31

out.

00:51:32

>> Yeah. What are some of the most common

00:51:35

misdiagnosis you see before ADHD is

00:51:37

properly identified?

00:51:39

>> This is a common one especially for

00:51:41

girls and women. You know, I meet a lot

00:51:43

of women now who have been told for

00:51:46

many, many years, you have anxiety or

00:51:49

you're just stressed or, you know, you

00:51:52

need to kind of um sleep more and you

00:51:54

know, so they've been told things that

00:51:56

>> eat more iron.

00:51:58

>> Well, exactly. Yeah. You know, and so a

00:52:00

lot of of sort of struggling with ADHD

00:52:02

type symptoms can be put down to other

00:52:04

things.

00:52:05

>> And again, that's because it's complex.

00:52:07

As we've just said, an anxiety disorder

00:52:09

or depression can look like ADHD

00:52:11

sometimes,

00:52:12

>> but also I think there's been a big

00:52:14

misunderstanding about what ADHD looks

00:52:17

like too, especially for girls and

00:52:18

women. And so, yeah, I think kind of

00:52:21

anxiety, depression, being told you're

00:52:23

just generally struggling with your

00:52:25

mental health. That's a very common one

00:52:27

to see people come to me with, you know,

00:52:29

and then when we go through everything,

00:52:31

we actually realize, well, you you've

00:52:33

had pretty significant ADHD your whole

00:52:35

life. It's not anxiety.

00:52:39

>> How's how's that for people to digest?

00:52:41

Is that like a relief? Is that is that

00:52:43

good news? Is it

00:52:45

>> I mean, I think often it's it's really

00:52:46

relieving and validating and can be

00:52:48

quite emotional in a positive way

00:52:50

because I think, you know, it doesn't

00:52:53

matter whether it's your physical health

00:52:54

or your mental health. I think a lot of

00:52:55

people can relate to feeling that

00:52:58

something's not right or maybe we're not

00:53:00

kind of quite down the right track of

00:53:02

the diagnosis or the treatment. And it

00:53:05

can be very isolating and difficult to

00:53:07

feel like you're in the medical system

00:53:09

or seeing a doctor or a psychologist and

00:53:11

you're not feeling heard in terms of

00:53:13

what you're experiencing or what you

00:53:15

feel in your gut is going on. So I think

00:53:18

it is really really validating and and

00:53:20

positive for some people to kind of hear

00:53:22

that in the end.

00:53:24

>> How do you help patients move from

00:53:26

something's wrong with me to this is

00:53:28

part of how my brain works?

00:53:30

>> Oh, I love that question. Um, look, it

00:53:33

doesn't happen overnight, you know, and

00:53:34

and I always talk to patients about, you

00:53:37

know, you might feel actually really

00:53:39

angry and upset that this has been

00:53:41

missed till now, or you might feel a

00:53:44

little bit of a mixture of shame. You

00:53:46

know, I think a lot of people actually

00:53:47

come to see me and they say,

00:53:49

>> I haven't told anyone that I'm having

00:53:51

this appointment. You know, I haven't

00:53:52

told my parents or my partner or my

00:53:55

friends because there still can be kind

00:53:56

of shame and guilt when it comes to this

00:53:58

stuff. So, I really just tell people to

00:54:02

to let those emotions just come out and

00:54:04

and feel them however they sort of come

00:54:07

and kind of just giving your brain time

00:54:09

to process that is the main thing. But

00:54:12

again, I think it's pushing back on that

00:54:14

stigma and like we've said, you know,

00:54:16

autism, ADHD, neurodedevelopmental

00:54:18

conditions, these are not kind of flaws

00:54:22

or defects. These are not our brain

00:54:24

should be operating on this level but

00:54:26

people with ADHD are at this lower

00:54:28

level. That is not what

00:54:30

neurodedevelopmental conditions are.

00:54:32

They are just a different way of the

00:54:34

brain developing and and sort of

00:54:37

filtering in the world and and things.

00:54:39

So I think talking to people about that

00:54:42

in in terms of that misconception of

00:54:45

what ADHD is is often one of the best

00:54:47

ways to kind of shift from that I have a

00:54:50

disease or a disorder or I'm defective

00:54:52

to I just have a neurodedevelopmental

00:54:55

condition and that just means my brain

00:54:57

operates on a slightly different part of

00:54:58

the spectrum compared to maybe the

00:55:00

person sitting next to me.

00:55:02

>> How can friends, family or employers

00:55:05

better support someone with ADHD? H uh I

00:55:08

think really the understanding part is

00:55:10

the big one here. So you know I think

00:55:12

whether we're friends especially friends

00:55:14

and family it's hearing that person out

00:55:16

and believing them when they tell you

00:55:19

they are struggling. Yeah. Absolutely.

00:55:22

You know but also not kind of just

00:55:24

pushing you know oh everyone's got it

00:55:26

now or that's fashionable.

00:55:27

>> Yeah. That's because you're on your

00:55:29

phone 5 hours a day. I'm guilty.

00:55:31

>> That might not help. It doesn't help me

00:55:33

that's for sure. But, you know, that's

00:55:35

also not what ADHD is. So, I think this

00:55:38

is for mental health in general as well.

00:55:39

Obviously, when someone comes to us and

00:55:42

says, "I'm struggling or something is

00:55:44

there or something's not right." It's

00:55:46

just hearing them in that moment. Just

00:55:49

listening to them, not trying to fix it

00:55:51

or solve it or push it away with, "Oh,

00:55:53

well, that's just rubbish. That's a tick

00:55:54

tock diagnosis." It's just hearing them

00:55:57

and believing them, you know. And then I

00:55:59

think when it comes to workplaces or

00:56:01

family life, it's also being open to the

00:56:05

fact that there are just different ways

00:56:06

that people's brains operate best. And

00:56:09

so in a workplace that might look like

00:56:11

being understanding of someone wearing

00:56:13

noise cancelling headphones in the

00:56:15

office to kind of get distractions out.

00:56:17

It might be understanding of them

00:56:18

needing written instructions so that

00:56:21

they can remember kind of instructions

00:56:23

better, you know. So, I think it's just

00:56:25

taking into account some of the things

00:56:27

that people feel can help them operate

00:56:30

best and kind of not shutting those

00:56:33

things down because they're maybe

00:56:34

different to the majority. I think it's

00:56:36

again just being open.

00:56:39

>> You just said there about written

00:56:40

instructions. Is that is that a thing

00:56:43

>> that can help? Yeah.

00:56:44

>> Oh my [ __ ] god. Like,

00:56:45

>> are you a list man or

00:56:47

>> My god, I um I feel so embarrassed about

00:56:49

so much stuff I I do, but like

00:56:52

everyone's on Outlook these days or your

00:56:54

calendar online, but I still like having

00:56:56

an old traditional diary and I I like to

00:56:59

write things down and

00:57:00

>> it's something that I sort of keep

00:57:01

hidden because it's embarrassing because

00:57:03

it makes me look like a boomer, but I

00:57:05

need to write things down.

00:57:06

>> You like having it physically kind of

00:57:08

Yeah, definitely. And again, that's

00:57:10

that's probably just you and that's how

00:57:13

you feel things flow best and you can

00:57:15

keep track of things.

00:57:16

>> But yeah, for people with ADHD, having

00:57:19

things in multiple different formats in

00:57:21

terms of audio, written, you know, that

00:57:23

can help information soak in and stick.

00:57:27

And it also can make us feel we're kind

00:57:29

of just more in control of the logistics

00:57:32

and organization, what's going on. So

00:57:34

yeah, I won't diagnose you over the

00:57:36

table, D, but

00:57:37

>> Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Um, what gives

00:57:40

you the most hope about uh the growing

00:57:42

conversation around ADHD?

00:57:44

>> I think the most hope is around the fact

00:57:47

that it's becoming more okay to talk

00:57:51

about ADHD and to talk about mental

00:57:53

health in general. You know, I think for

00:57:55

me that's one of the biggest things that

00:57:57

came from the the pandemic, you know, is

00:58:00

just even when it comes to depression

00:58:02

and anxiety and we've had

00:58:04

>> athletes and you know, all manner of

00:58:07

people coming out being honest now and

00:58:09

open about struggling with their mental

00:58:11

health or having a diagnosis having

00:58:13

ADHD. For me, that's the most hopeful

00:58:16

kind of positive part to it because for

00:58:18

a long long time, anything on the mental

00:58:21

health front or the neurode divergent

00:58:23

front has just kind of been this shadowy

00:58:26

sort of it's shameful. It's your fault.

00:58:28

It's a bit of a personal failing. It's

00:58:31

something to hide. Um, but I think now

00:58:35

the discussion and awareness that's out

00:58:37

there around ADHD is a positive thing

00:58:40

because it's it's hopefully showing

00:58:42

people that this isn't something to be

00:58:43

ashamed of. It's not something to hide.

00:58:46

It's not something that's a negative or

00:58:48

you know a flaw. Um, so that's the most

00:58:51

positive thing for me and I think in

00:58:53

Australia and New Zealand that's

00:58:55

something I've seen just working in

00:58:57

psychiatry in recent years. this shift

00:58:59

in terms of how we're thinking about

00:59:01

mental health and mental illness.

00:59:04

>> It's kind of becoming on par with

00:59:06

physical health now finally for the

00:59:08

first time. And we've still got a long

00:59:09

way to go.

00:59:10

>> But, you know, I think when we can be

00:59:11

thinking about what's going on in here

00:59:14

in an equal way to how we think about

00:59:17

what's going on out here or with our

00:59:18

heart or our gut, you know, it's just as

00:59:21

important and valid. So, that's that's

00:59:23

the big hopeful part.

00:59:24

>> Yeah. You've done so much uh fantastic

00:59:26

work in that mental health space. How

00:59:28

old are you? Can I ask? I'm

00:59:29

>> 37.

00:59:30

>> 37. Okay. So, you're like 15 years

00:59:32

younger than me, but you're um you you

00:59:34

were raised on a on a farm in sort of

00:59:36

rural New Zealand.

00:59:37

>> You What was your What was your dad

00:59:38

like? Was he much of a communicator or

00:59:40

>> uh Yeah.

00:59:41

>> Stoic?

00:59:42

>> I mean, on the outside quite like a

00:59:44

stoic classic Kiwi guy. I guess my dad's

00:59:47

a policeman. Like, so he was like the

00:59:49

local town policeman when I was growing

00:59:52

up, which was um a good thing and a bad

00:59:54

thing in some ways.

00:59:57

maybe kept me in line, which is probably

00:59:59

a good thing.

00:59:59

>> Just knows all your [ __ ] Knows

01:00:01

everything that's going on.

01:00:02

>> Get away with anything. Um, but my dad

01:00:06

actually and most of the men in my

01:00:08

family, like my grandfathers and

01:00:09

everyone, probably kind of stoic on the

01:00:12

outside, but actually, you know, he's

01:00:14

probably going to kill me for saying

01:00:15

this, but softy on the inside. Do you

01:00:17

know what I mean? Like good at

01:00:18

communicating with his kids,

01:00:19

>> talking about emotions and and that type

01:00:22

of thing in a lot of ways. So again, I

01:00:24

think I grew up with that sense of

01:00:27

>> of that being okay. Um, you know, I

01:00:30

think growing up in Wau, I mean, it was

01:00:32

a great place to grow up, but for a for

01:00:35

a young guy that was probably a bit more

01:00:37

emotionally sensitive and was into

01:00:40

school work and, you know, that was a

01:00:42

little bit of a different different

01:00:43

mold, you know, kind of the old nerd and

01:00:47

and all of that kind of thing thrown

01:00:49

around a wee bit. Um, but yeah, I think

01:00:51

I had a really good kind of model in my

01:00:54

dad and and things for that.

01:00:56

>> Oh, that's cool. Yeah, because I think a

01:00:58

lot of rural kids probably have like a

01:00:59

different sort of environment. You know,

01:01:01

like farmers are notoriously bad at

01:01:03

communicating.

01:01:03

>> 100%.

01:01:04

>> It's a stereotype that

01:01:06

>> Yeah. And I mean I think even now it's

01:01:08

you know wherever you live in in New

01:01:10

Zealand but also even Australia that

01:01:13

sense of especially that slightly older

01:01:15

generation you know my parents'

01:01:16

generation talking about like touchy

01:01:19

feelies and emotions and depression and

01:01:21

anxiety and oh I can't focus or it's

01:01:24

hard to remember stuff at school you

01:01:26

know that that would have been taken in

01:01:28

a very different way um you know even 10

01:01:31

20 years ago. So yeah, it's um you know,

01:01:35

I've really loved this part of my career

01:01:38

as well as time's gone on in terms of

01:01:40

just being able to be a bit of a voice

01:01:43

>> for that. You know, you can grow up on a

01:01:46

farm or you can enjoy going to the gym

01:01:48

or you can, you know, do bodybuilding if

01:01:52

you want to, but that doesn't mean that

01:01:53

you then can't also kind of be emotive

01:01:56

or talk about mental health or how

01:01:58

you're feeling or prioritize other areas

01:02:00

as well. So yeah, I think that's

01:02:02

shifting. But yeah.

01:02:03

>> Oh no, no, it is. It is. And it can't

01:02:05

happen fast enough. God, we'll have to

01:02:07

get you back um another day for another

01:02:09

conversation all about that because as I

01:02:10

alluded to before, you've done so much

01:02:12

work in that mental health space.

01:02:13

>> Yeah. No, I'd love that. But yeah,

01:02:15

definitely we will.

01:02:16

>> How often do you get back? As

01:02:18

infrequently as possible?

01:02:20

>> No, probably far too much. My parents

01:02:22

are like stay over that.

01:02:24

>> No, probably at least, you know, three

01:02:27

three times a year. Three or four times

01:02:28

a year. Cool.

01:02:29

>> I mean, it's such a quick flight from

01:02:31

Sydney now, which is which is great, but

01:02:33

it's sort of it's longer to drive down

01:02:35

to Rooua than it is to fly from like

01:02:38

Oakland to Sydney.

01:02:39

>> Yeah. You took your partner to Rooua.

01:02:41

>> Yeah, we went to Rooua. We saw the old

01:02:43

mudpools and so that was a blast from

01:02:47

the past cuz Yeah. I mean, that was Ro

01:02:49

Vegas was the the Kennedy family holiday

01:02:52

destination when I was a kid. So, yeah.

01:02:55

I mean, I will say I think for for my

01:02:57

partner and I, the luge the luge was

01:02:59

quite slightly less high and steep and

01:03:03

fast than I remember it as a kid.

01:03:05

>> Do they still make you do the slow lane

01:03:07

for the first trip down? They do.

01:03:08

>> They do. Oh, come on.

01:03:10

>> And test the brakes, you know, make sure

01:03:12

you're not slamming it into the

01:03:13

concrete.

01:03:14

>> Um, but no, it was great. I love I love

01:03:17

coming back and New Zealand will

01:03:19

obviously always be my home and and it's

01:03:21

such a special place, so coming back to

01:03:23

see my family, but Also just to be

01:03:26

around, you know, some Kiwis and hear

01:03:28

some New Zealand accents. It's nice as

01:03:31

well.

01:03:31

>> Oh, if you want to hear some New Zealand

01:03:32

accents, just go to Bondi every once in

01:03:34

a while. You can find them

01:03:35

>> or the Gold Coast possibly. There's

01:03:37

there's a lot of Kiwi accents around

01:03:39

there.

01:03:40

>> Um, a couple more on ADHD. Uh, how can

01:03:44

ADHD affect relationships, careers, and

01:03:46

self-esteem?

01:03:48

>> It can affect all of those things in

01:03:52

really complex multiple ways. really

01:03:54

>> mostly negative or

01:03:55

>> often positive, you know. I mean, I

01:03:57

think in terms of relationships and

01:03:59

work, people with ADHD,

01:04:01

oh god, I mean, there's there's any

01:04:03

number of positives, but they can be

01:04:05

incredibly creative and active,

01:04:07

motivated, you know, multi-talented,

01:04:10

jumping into different things. Um, you

01:04:13

know, but that can be a bit of a

01:04:14

double-edged sword sometimes as well.

01:04:16

People can struggle to

01:04:18

>> maybe, for example, remember something

01:04:19

their partner has told them. Often

01:04:21

people tell me that whole we talked

01:04:23

about this on Monday or I told you this

01:04:26

was coming up on Saturday and that can

01:04:28

actually cause a lot of friction in

01:04:30

relationships. Um you know so something

01:04:32

like that might impact a relationship

01:04:34

negatively. Something else that people

01:04:36

might have heard about as well is what

01:04:38

we call RSD or rejection sensitive

01:04:41

dysphoria. It's a bit of a mouthful but

01:04:43

that is very common with ADHD. And what

01:04:46

that is is actually being incredibly

01:04:48

sensitive and hypervigilant to any

01:04:50

rejection from others. And so people

01:04:53

with ADHD often feel like they might

01:04:55

monitor or scan their partner or their

01:04:58

friends or their family for any tiny

01:05:01

little hint of rejection or abandonment

01:05:04

or you're not happy with me. I'm not

01:05:06

pleasing you.

01:05:08

>> And that can cause an incredibly kind of

01:05:11

strong emotional reaction in people with

01:05:13

ADHD. So that can also come into play

01:05:16

with relationships as well if we're kind

01:05:18

of really reading and feeling potential

01:05:21

signs and signals a lot. You know, it

01:05:23

might just be that our partner's had a

01:05:24

bad day at work and they're actually

01:05:26

exhausted. But for us, them slumping

01:05:28

down on the couch,

01:05:29

>> it might feel like they've done

01:05:32

something wrong or they're not happy in

01:05:33

the relationship anymore, they're going

01:05:35

to leave me,

01:05:36

>> you know. So there are so many various

01:05:38

ways ADHD can impact our work and

01:05:40

relationships.

01:05:42

>> And self-esteem is a big one, too. You

01:05:43

know, I think especially if people grow

01:05:45

up as kids feeling like they just

01:05:47

couldn't keep up in class or something

01:05:48

was different compared to their friends

01:05:50

and the other kids in class,

01:05:52

>> usually what we do as kids,

01:05:54

unfortunately, is we just flip that back

01:05:56

in on ourselves and we think, well, that

01:05:58

must be because I'm not smart enough or

01:06:00

I'm different or I'm weird. So, I hear

01:06:03

that a lot from people with autism and

01:06:06

ADHD diagnoses is a sense of kind of

01:06:08

really directing that blame and shame

01:06:11

inward and that can really kind of hit

01:06:13

self-esteem even later on as adults.

01:06:17

>> Do you think there are hidden strengths

01:06:18

in ADHD that we don't talk about often

01:06:20

enough?

01:06:21

>> Yeah, I I really really do.

01:06:23

>> You probably addressed some of them just

01:06:24

before actually.

01:06:25

>> Definitely. You know, I think again

01:06:27

shifting away from thinking about autism

01:06:29

and ADHD and neurode divergence as being

01:06:32

this blanket negative or a defect or a

01:06:35

failing. That's where we need to shift

01:06:37

away from. You know, a lot of people

01:06:39

with ADHD are incredibly creative.

01:06:43

They're incredibly successful. You know,

01:06:45

someone who has a touch of hyperactivity

01:06:48

might be extremely kind of active and

01:06:51

motivated within their career or their

01:06:53

personal pursuits or sport.

01:06:56

Someone who has inattentive features of

01:06:58

ADHD might struggle with distractability

01:07:00

and focus at times, but they also might

01:07:02

be really good at switching between

01:07:04

different tasks or have periods where

01:07:06

they hyperfocus and they can actually

01:07:08

just zone into doing something with

01:07:10

incredible intensity.

01:07:12

>> So, there are some definite ways that

01:07:14

ADHD can be, you know, quote unquote, to

01:07:17

use the cheesy term, a bit of a

01:07:18

superpower, and it's it's not a

01:07:20

negative. Um,

01:07:22

>> yeah, that's what people say. I've got

01:07:24

ADHD. It's my superpower, is it?

01:07:26

>> Yeah, I absolutely think it can be, you

01:07:28

know, and I think it's so important,

01:07:30

especially for our kids, that we we make

01:07:32

sure to push the fact that ADHD isn't

01:07:36

just a negative thing. It It can have a

01:07:38

lot of kind of superpowery, really

01:07:40

fantastic things about it sometimes as

01:07:42

well.

01:07:43

>> What would you change tomorrow about the

01:07:45

way our health system approaches ADHD if

01:07:47

you were in charge?

01:07:48

>> Yeah, that's a big one. Um, I mean, I

01:07:51

think for me it would be increasing

01:07:54

access to ADHD assessment and treatment

01:07:58

with sort of more assistance for people

01:08:01

on the funding side. You know, I think

01:08:03

it's one thing to say, "Oh, well, we

01:08:05

should have ADHD assessments in the

01:08:07

public system," but obviously the public

01:08:09

system is also, especially with

01:08:11

psychiatry right now, it's really also

01:08:13

supporting a lot of people struggling

01:08:15

with psychosis and with substance and

01:08:18

addiction issues, with depression. Um,

01:08:21

so it's a really complex issue, but I

01:08:23

think for me it would be coming round to

01:08:26

helping people access ADHD assessments

01:08:28

and treatment. And what that might look

01:08:30

like is more funding to give people

01:08:33

rebates or money back in terms of if

01:08:36

they need to see a private psychiatrist,

01:08:38

there would be some more financial

01:08:40

support around that for people because

01:08:42

what we don't want, as we said before,

01:08:44

is for this to become a a privileged

01:08:47

pathway in psychiatry and medicine where

01:08:50

only the people who can afford to pay

01:08:52

significant amounts for support get that

01:08:55

support. So

01:08:56

>> I think for for me it would be that

01:08:57

funding side but possibly if any

01:08:59

politicians heard that they would um you

01:09:01

know roll their eyes and become a naive

01:09:04

ranting doctor just asking for more

01:09:05

money. Um but no that access side would

01:09:08

be for me the big one. Yeah.

01:09:10

>> Do you get a lot of people thanking you?

01:09:12

Like what what sort of reaction do you

01:09:13

get when you diagnose someone? Like it

01:09:15

must be life-changing for a lot of

01:09:17

people.

01:09:17

>> Yeah, it really is. you know, it's um

01:09:20

and and that's the most rewarding part

01:09:22

of my job and why I love what I do. It's

01:09:25

meeting people at one point in their

01:09:27

life where they're really really

01:09:28

struggling and and really, you know,

01:09:30

feeling like they're not managing and

01:09:32

then I'm definitely not going to take

01:09:33

all the credit for it because it's a lot

01:09:35

of things usually, but then meeting them

01:09:37

6 months or a year down the track and

01:09:40

hearing that they have finished the

01:09:42

degree that they were really struggling

01:09:44

to stay afloat with or they've finally

01:09:46

started that business that they wanted

01:09:48

to for so long or their relationships

01:09:50

are better, their general health is

01:09:51

better. You know, that's really amazing.

01:09:53

Um, I went to sort of like a a charity

01:09:56

event over in Sydney recently and um, I

01:10:00

just happened to sort of meet a patient

01:10:02

there. Someone that I'd seen and

01:10:04

assessed and started on a treatment plan

01:10:06

for ADHD was there and he came up to me

01:10:09

and sort of said, "Oh, I hope this isn't

01:10:10

awkward in terms of it's a bit weird.

01:10:12

You're not supposed to hug your

01:10:13

psychiatrist or know them in person."

01:10:16

Um, but no, he just sort of said, "I

01:10:18

just want to thank you so much in terms

01:10:20

of like it's it's changed my life and

01:10:23

>> work and my relationship and even, you

01:10:26

know, my health, my physical health is

01:10:28

so much better. So, yeah, it's just

01:10:31

absolutely lovely to to kind of help

01:10:34

support people and whether my part's

01:10:36

just 1% of that or it's a bigger chunk

01:10:38

of that, it's it's, you know, just

01:10:40

lovely to be a part of that."

01:10:42

If someone's listening to this or

01:10:43

watching this now and they're they're

01:10:45

feeling a certain way, like um yeah,

01:10:47

maybe they're they're feeling emotional

01:10:48

because it feels like what you're

01:10:51

talking about is describing them or

01:10:54

maybe it feels like a a weight off their

01:10:55

shoulders because they finally got some

01:10:57

sort of clarity. Like what would your

01:10:59

message be to those people who are ADHD

01:11:01

curious?

01:11:02

>> Yeah, I mean I think letting yourself

01:11:04

just feel that emotion is the main one.

01:11:06

You know, that'll make me sound like a

01:11:07

bit of a, you know, a a woohoo kind of

01:11:12

very

01:11:13

>> You go to Byron Bay.

01:11:14

>> I was just gonna say some crystals. Go

01:11:16

to Byron Bay.

01:11:17

>> I promise I'm not shaking crystals um to

01:11:19

anyone listening to this, but I just

01:11:21

letting yourself feel that and know that

01:11:23

it's okay to feel like this resonates

01:11:26

with you and and to feel that, holy

01:11:28

[ __ ] this might be me or this is me,

01:11:31

but this feels really validating to hear

01:11:34

this.

01:11:35

It's just leaning into that, I think,

01:11:37

you know, and and I guess what I would

01:11:39

want to say to people just in general

01:11:41

when we're thinking about mental health

01:11:42

and mental health conditions or

01:11:44

diagnosis,

01:11:45

>> it's it's to just know that that's just

01:11:47

as valid as anything else in medicine or

01:11:50

health, you know, like if if we wouldn't

01:11:52

shy away from booking an appointment to

01:11:54

see our GP hopefully to talk about blood

01:11:57

on the toilet bowl or a missed heartbeat

01:12:00

or a sore gut, you know, that's been

01:12:03

there for a

01:12:05

we should not be thinking or feeling any

01:12:07

differently about seeing a doctor or

01:12:09

seeking out some professional support if

01:12:12

we're worried about our mental health or

01:12:14

if we're hearing something about a

01:12:16

symptom and thinking, "Oh [ __ ] this

01:12:17

might be me." So, I just want those

01:12:20

people listening or anyone listening to

01:12:22

know that if it's to do with mental

01:12:24

health and what's going on inside your

01:12:26

skull, that is just as valid to be

01:12:28

feeling and checking out and getting

01:12:30

support for as anything else. So,

01:12:32

>> just lean into that. you um you said

01:12:34

earlier on um that the first step is to

01:12:36

go and see your GP for a chat about it.

01:12:38

Um is there anything people can do

01:12:40

before then? Like are there any like

01:12:41

books that you swear by or like online

01:12:44

resources or anything?

01:12:45

>> Yeah, I mean there's some really really

01:12:46

good ones. There's um you know the ADHD

01:12:49

Foundation in Australia has really good

01:12:53

information and obviously it's

01:12:54

Australianbased but Australia and New

01:12:57

Zealand very very closely linked and

01:12:59

very similar. So that's got a lot of

01:13:00

great resources for people. Um,

01:13:04

you know, there are some really great

01:13:05

books as well. You know, I think there's

01:13:07

the, you know, it all makes sense now is

01:13:10

is a book that is really helpful and

01:13:12

validating for a lot of people as well.

01:13:14

Um, you know, so I think just not being

01:13:17

afraid to kind of go online and have a

01:13:18

bit of a look and a research as well.

01:13:21

>> Um, I will say keep an open mind and and

01:13:23

stay skeptical perhaps if you're on

01:13:26

Instagram and Tik Tok. There's a lot of

01:13:29

really great information on there about

01:13:31

health and mental health and ADHD, but

01:13:33

there's also a lot of um kind of

01:13:36

misinformation and and you know, rubbish

01:13:39

for want of a better word out there as

01:13:41

well. So, I think, you know, if you're

01:13:43

online and you're watching Tik Toks or

01:13:46

you're following someone who, you know,

01:13:48

is talking about their experience with

01:13:50

ADHD, it's with absolute all respect

01:13:53

that I say to people sharing content,

01:13:55

you know, but it it's just keep an open

01:13:57

mind in terms of well, ask your doctor

01:14:00

um about those things you hear as well.

01:14:03

>> Well, Dr. Karen Kennedy, this has been

01:14:05

really insightful. It's not my usual

01:14:07

sort of episode. It's been um like a

01:14:09

like an FAQ, I guess,

01:14:11

>> quick for ADHD.

01:14:12

>> ADHD. But um I've got I I've learned a

01:14:15

lot. I've got no doubt a lot of people

01:14:17

listening to this or watching this will

01:14:18

get a lot out of it as well.

01:14:19

>> No, I hope so. And and no, thank you so

01:14:21

much for having me, Dom. Like I say,

01:14:22

it's it's just very very humbling for me

01:14:25

to be here actually. You know, listen to

01:14:27

you on the radio for a long time and

01:14:29

then, you know, other people you've had,

01:14:31

you know, Nigel Latter and and things,

01:14:34

you know, rested soul. you know, it's

01:14:37

just really really humbling to be here

01:14:38

and

01:14:39

>> to get this info out there. So, thank

01:14:40

you for having me.

01:14:42

>> When you when you're back for your next

01:14:43

um family holiday in uh Pokawi, come

01:14:46

back and we'll um we'll chat about um

01:14:47

mental health.

01:14:48

>> No, we will. Yeah, I'll get off the

01:14:50

potato farm for a bit and we'll um I'll

01:14:52

stop pulling potatoes. We'll come have a

01:14:55

chat about general mental health.

01:14:56

>> Do they make you work?

01:14:59

>> I was going to say, show me your nails.

01:15:01

>> Those nails haven't seen soil in years.

01:15:03

>> I was going to say they're very Sydney

01:15:04

nails. I'm sorry to say so my family

01:15:06

will rubbish me for that but no I would

01:15:08

absolutely love to come back and like

01:15:10

you say there's um even just general

01:15:11

mental health there's so much we could

01:15:13

talk about but thank you so much for

01:15:14

having me

01:15:15

>> yeah no way you're going on the farm

01:15:16

after this you're going to the gym and

01:15:17

it's curls today isn't it again

01:15:19

>> some more scrambled eggs and then some

01:15:21

curls

01:15:22

>> Dr. Kieran Kennedy, the hot dog. Thank

01:15:25

you for coming on the podcast, mate.

01:15:26

Really appreciate it. It's been great.

01:15:27

>> Thank you, mate. Thanks so much.

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Episode Highlights

ADHD as a Superpower
Dr. Kennedy shares how ADHD can drive creativity and passion, making it a unique asset.
“ADHD can absolutely drive a lot of real passion and interest, creativity, hyperfocus.”
@ 11m 02s
February 04, 2026
Understanding ADHD
Dr. Kieran Kennedy explains the complexities of ADHD and its symptoms.
“ADHD is a combination of inattentive symptoms and hyperactivity.”
@ 12m 04s
February 04, 2026
The Rise of ADHD Awareness
The podcast discusses the recent explosion of awareness around ADHD, especially in adults.
“There's been a lot more awareness for kids but also adults around what ADHD can look like.”
@ 13m 43s
February 04, 2026
Understanding ADHD Symptoms
ADHD presents differently in individuals, making diagnosis complex. Core symptoms guide assessments.
“Struggling to focus for me might not look like struggling to focus for you.”
@ 19m 07s
February 04, 2026
Neurodivergence and Society
The stigma around ADHD and neurodivergence affects those with diagnoses and their experiences.
“It can be used in a bit of a stigmatizing way.”
@ 30m 22s
February 04, 2026
The Emotional Rollercoaster of Diagnosis
Adults diagnosed with ADHD often experience a mix of relief, validation, and sadness.
“It's often really positive and validating.”
@ 36m 50s
February 04, 2026
Active Relaxer Explained
The term 'active relaxer' refers to those who find relaxation in activity, not stillness.
“It can be but not always.”
@ 38m 46s
February 04, 2026
ADHD Misconceptions
Many believe ADHD is just a childhood condition, but adults can also benefit from diagnosis.
“It can be absolutely lifechanging for people.”
@ 43m 46s
February 04, 2026
Breaking the Stigma of ADHD
ADHD is not a flaw but a different way of brain development. Understanding this can help shift perceptions.
“ADHD isn’t a flaw; it’s a different way of brain development.”
@ 54m 22s
February 04, 2026
The Hope in Talking About Mental Health
The conversation around ADHD and mental health is becoming more open, especially post-pandemic.
“It’s becoming more okay to talk about ADHD and mental health.”
@ 57m 44s
February 04, 2026
ADHD as a Superpower
ADHD can be viewed as a superpower, highlighting creativity and unique strengths.
“ADHD can be a superpower, not just a negative thing.”
@ 01h 07m 24s
February 04, 2026
Mental Health Validity
Mental health concerns are as valid as physical health issues. Seek support without hesitation.
“If it's to do with mental health... that is just as valid to be feeling and checking out.”
@ 01h 12m 24s
February 04, 2026

Episode Quotes

I think my brain is quite neurotypical... I would like a bit of spice.
Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD
ADHD can absolutely be a bit of a superpower.
Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD
ADHD has strengths and great things to it.
Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD
I never realized that other people's brains aren't just constantly full of noise.
Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD
It’s becoming more okay to talk about ADHD and mental health.
Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD
It’s lovely to help support people and be a part of their journey.
Dr Kieran Kennedy: Why You’re Wrong About ADHD

Key Moments

ADHD Strengths11:02
ADHD Awareness13:43
Diagnosis Process23:21
Diagnosis Emotions36:50
Misconceptions of ADHD47:22
Emotional Expression54:02
Understanding ADHD54:22
Gym and Curls1:15:16

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