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Mark Longley welcome to my podcast thank
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you for having me um I said um before
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nice to meet you but it turns out we've
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met before you um interviewed me for a
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magazine called brass I know yeah I was
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I was trying to think when it was it
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would have been around 2007 so quite a
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long time ago just it was just on a cafe
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in ponsonby I don't know why I remember
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it so well but I just when I heard when
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you you invited me on here I flashed
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back back to that it's amaz yeah BR sort
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like a New Zealand ver very shortlived
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magazine sort like a New Zealand version
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of um FHM or Max more Ralph yeah like a
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men's magazine it was yeah briefly yeah
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oh god well I regret being in brass and
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you regret working for brass I do yeah
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it was quite a good interview though we
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were talking about how to get into radio
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right so I think you gave some good tips
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right my my advice now would be don't
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get into radio it's um an eroding
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industry um how are you today good yeah
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I really appreciate being on the podcast
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um yeah um Bella who does some guest
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booking for me she reached out to you um
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after we saw the the man hunt show on
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tvnz plus which is I mean it's harrowing
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it's yeah it's it's not an easy watch
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and I can't imagine um it's easy for you
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to be a part of let alone watching it no
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it was it was challenging it was two
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days of solid filming obviously talking
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in great depth about about Emily and
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what had happened to her and it's it's
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kind of hard because you know I like to
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think of Emily now of the good times and
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the my daughter and and the happy times
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we had I don't like to focus on what
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happened too much and of course that
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drags you back through in quite painful
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detail about what happens it's when when
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when someone who you love deeply dies
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you you can't dwell on what happened for
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too long it'll just eat away at you you
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have to kind of move past that and so
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doing things like that just takes me
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right back to
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those awful days of of finding out and
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the the trial everything so it's not
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pleasant but but I think one of the
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really pleasing things for me about it
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was since it's it showed on in England a
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CLE a year ago now it was in New Zealand
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I had a lot of people contact me say
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they're going to they're talking to
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their daughters or their sons about
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about good relationships and what a
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healthy relationship is so that that's
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kind of why I do it I wanted to spread
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the word a bit about this this stuff
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exists it's out there and you've got to
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kind of prepare your kids bo boys and
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girls to stop it happening again yeah
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there's so much to um to discuss with
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you because um I mean one thing that's
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striking for me is just how
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um dignified you've been about the whole
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thing even even when you when you're
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talking about you know the the um um you
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the the the the young man that killed
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your daughter like it's yeah you've just
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been so measured like every step of the
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way it seems and I I just you know like
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I I I suppose I projector try and put
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myself in your shoes and I think you
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know would I be like Mark in this
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situation and the answer I come up with
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was like absolutely [ __ ] not it
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wasn't always like that like there were
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times when I wasn't so measured but I
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just think you know I thought very early
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on that there was a lot of noise around
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what happened it was a big media story
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in in England down here there was a lot
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of noise around it there was a big
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police investigation a trial and I just
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thought you know Emily was very dign IED
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in the way she conducted herself she was
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very kind of yeah she was very dignified
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and she was very giving and and I just
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kind of wanted to honor that really I
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didn't I didn't want to she would have
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been embarrassed had I lost the plot or
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been renting and raving so I just it was
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really to honor her I wanted to I just
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wanted to be dignified and kind of calm
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and measured um to honor her and and
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also it's like if someone said to you
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someone's murdered your daughter your
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your instant reaction is I'm going to go
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[ __ ] kill him yeah and [ __ ] kill
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him yeah but that doesn't that makes
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that brings you down to their level you
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know he murdered my daughter and if I
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killed him it would make me know better
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than him so it was just another way of
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of reacting towards him and his family
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his parents covered it up and we were
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all in court together and I just wanted
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to look them in the eye and and and just
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be dignified and think I'm I'm better
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than you I wouldn't have done what you
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did and and so it was just important to
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me to to have that kind of upper hand on
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them yeah oh you're a good man does does
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time heal all all wounds as the saying
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goes no not at
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all what what happens do you just like
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develop the capacity to deal with it or
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you just you you find a way I mean
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there's a number of things that happen
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at first it's it's massively consuming
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it's like being stuck in a in a in a
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whirlwind you're just being tossed
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around all over the place you don't know
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where is up or down you don't know what
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the time is you don't know what day it
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is and and you gradually get a bit of
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control back and and you find you find
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ways that you can kind of rebalance
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yourself and then you just learn to live
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with it like I'm I'm sad about Emily
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every day I'm I'm sad I'm I'm sitting
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here talking about her now I'd much
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rather be going home and seeing her you
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know seeing her at home but I I think
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about her every day but I've just I I I
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can go about my daily life and and and
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kind of deal with that but also you know
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there's that there's that saying that
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grief is the price you pay for love or
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something I which which I don't agree
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with but grief is part of love you know
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the more you love someone the more
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you'll miss them when they when they're
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not here and and that that grief still
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connects me to Emily if I sto being sad
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it would mean I stop loving her and I
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don't so I'm kind of happy I'm still sad
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if that makes sense yeah yeah absolutely
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no makes perfect sense and so at what
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point so it was um it was 2011 it's it's
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easy for me to time time stamp this and
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probably the same for a lot of people
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listening because that was the the Rugby
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World Cup year here in New Zealand so it
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was 2011 at at at what point did you you
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decide to you like almost become like a
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white ribbon campaigner and make her
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death mean something something bigger I
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just it was pretty quickly afterwards
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actually I I I got back and I actually I
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read David White's book I don't know if
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you know David white but his daughter
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Helen Mees was was shot by her husband
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and and David wrote a book and and I at
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at the time I thought I'm the saddest
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person in the world like why was me and
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I read David's book and I thought
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actually there's other people who gone
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through this and and he talked about
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white ribbon in the book so I I got in
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touch with white ribbon because I I kind
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of I wanted to do something that
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educated men this was another another
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fact about Emily's death was Elliot
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Turner murdered her but as you saw in
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that documentary he he practiced killing
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her with his friends he he went out
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looking for her in nightclubs with his
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friends he was he was very vocal about
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what he was going to do he told them he
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was going to kill them and I'm like well
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why did no one Reign him in you know if
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my mate said that to me I'd say mate
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you're out of
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order so I thought there there there's
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something wrong here with with with the
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way men are behaving with each other if
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if they're he's going out with a hammer
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saying he's going to kill her and
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they're just going along with her with
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with him sorry so I kind of wanted to do
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something that spoke to men I thought
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I'll I'll I'll I'll try and address this
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with men and white ribbon speaks to men
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so I I got involved with white ribbon
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and we ended up setting up the white
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ribbon
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trust but it's it's it's hard going now
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because I I actually left it about a
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year ago but I think it's closed down
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now which is sad but You' yeah I mean
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whatever the whatever the name of the
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charity is um just the the awareness and
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um you the face uh and the message that
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you've put to it is um like a a
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measurable it's just huge yeah and and
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Al also Emily's case was a big you know
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it was big news in New Zealand so I
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thought well I can leverage off that and
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and do some good with it it was you know
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for a while um I could I could be on
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things and and I could just raise
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awareness that way and so I just thought
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I'd leverage off it and also it was just
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a way for me personally just to keep her
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name alive you know I I just dreaded
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people to stop talking about her I just
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thought that that would be horrendous
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now I'm quite pleased we don't talk
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better quite so much but yeah why why so
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uh it gets draining yeah after a while
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yeah just emotionally T yeah it is yeah
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yeah like like like this will be I'll
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I'll pay for this later it'll be quite
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draining lat not in a bad way but I'll
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be quite tired in in an hour or so yeah
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understandable I appreciate you doing it
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um okay so um paint a picture um for me
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of Emily like who who was she this I've
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got a photo here um this is sort of the
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photo that was in the in the you know in
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the news coverage yeah um she looks
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mischievous yeah you know I I I used to
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tease her that she had the face of an
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Angel and and the the soul of the
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devil because because she um you know
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she was she was beautiful but boy was
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she she was mischievous yeah yeah I mean
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this this photo was she she had been
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living in England um for six months and
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she came back to New Zealand for Easter
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and this is at her mother's house and
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her mother and I were separated
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and she was just sitting there and
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Caroline said you look so beautiful I'm
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going to take a picture of you and so
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Emily just pulled that that just pulled
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that smile which is kind of she's she's
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taking the piss a little bit oh she her
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pointing a camera at her um and yeah you
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know I didn't for a minute imagine this
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would be shown all over the place but
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but she was you know Emily Emily was
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born in 1994 I think in
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London and you know she was this I was
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kind of young 25 and she was a bit of a
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surprise um and I remember the night she
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was born was quite a long labor and
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they she was born and and um they
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wrapped her up in a tow and they gave
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her to me to hold and I I I sat there
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with her and her head was in my hand and
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her feet were here and I just looked at
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her for hours which it just seemed like
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hours and and I just thought this is
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it's the most incredible thing like
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everybody has their their firstborn
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story and it's incredible for everyone
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mine's not unique but it was just the
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most beautiful
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moment and you know she was um when she
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was about 18 months old she was
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diagnosed with a with with low bone
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density so she used to break her bones
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fairly easily and she also suffered
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quite badly from um hay fever and Asthma
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so she had these chared ailments that
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would hold a kid back but it just made
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her more kind of determined to to to do
00:11:00
what she wanted to do and and so she she
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built up this incredible Drive to End
00:11:07
determination that was honestly a
00:11:09
nightmare to
00:11:11
parents but and I used to think you know
00:11:14
this is hard work now but this is going
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to stand you in really good stead when
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you're older because you're just not
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going to give up you're going to you're
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going to go for what you want and you're
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going to do it and she would argue with
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me like three or four years old she'd be
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arguing with me about why she couldn't
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do this why she couldn't do that and and
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and and I you know but at the same time
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I loved it I thought I've got this kind
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of you know she's not just like I'm her
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dad and she's my child she's doing
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everything I tell she's she's
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challenging me and we learn about life
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together and and you know we were really
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we were really close with the same sense
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of
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humor and and
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she she was very cheeky very mischievous
00:11:53
um always getting in trouble at school
00:11:55
you know she at one school in England
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they did a massive fundraising I
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shouldn't laugh about this because it
00:12:01
was not good at the time did a massive
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fundraising for a new
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netball uh surface for the netb um Court
00:12:09
put it down everyone was very proud of
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it and Emily went out and picked bits of
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tar out of the
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net and and and and I think she
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scratched her name in it as well or
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something and she was like I don't know
00:12:22
nine or 10 at this time and and I said
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why'd you do it I don't know I just felt
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like it she she went to the library one
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time and I think for a punishment and so
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she rearranged all the books so she put
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all the RS in the Zeds and all the Zeds
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and the M's and the librarian came in
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and and went crazy and called me down to
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school and I'm like why did you do that
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Emily I don't know I was just I was in
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detention I was bored so she yeah yeah
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it was was all this but at the same time
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you know very loving very loving very
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kind of really good company really good
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I mean I just really enjoyed being her
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father it was just really good fun and
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and I'm it you know we we had to we had
00:13:06
to grow into this together and she she's
00:13:09
the reason you guys moved to New Zealand
00:13:10
right because of the health issues you
00:13:12
moved here for the bit year bit of
00:13:14
climate yeah yeah was a big part of it
00:13:16
her specialist said we should move out
00:13:17
of London which is because a lot of it
00:13:18
was triggered by
00:13:20
pollution so Caroline and I had both
00:13:22
been here before so we thought why don't
00:13:24
we try New Zealand which is about as far
00:13:26
out of London as you can get so we we
00:13:29
came over here for a holiday and it it
00:13:31
was just you know she was in a school in
00:13:34
London that was surrounded by a big wall
00:13:37
and there were no there was no Greenery
00:13:39
and at the end of the day the teacher
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opened a door in the wall and the kids
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fed out and it was it was always gray
00:13:43
and they never there weren't fields or
00:13:46
anything and we came here and her first
00:13:48
school was in harrii and uh on the North
00:13:51
Shore and all the kids came running out
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across the green fields without any
00:13:55
shoes on and I thought yeah this is a
00:13:57
much better environment for Emily just
00:13:59
that Outdoors active the weather's good
00:14:03
you know you're not you're not inside
00:14:04
for six months of the year and she and
00:14:06
she really blossomed here yeah what sort
00:14:08
of um was she into sports or music she
00:14:11
loved to sports yeah yeah what sports
00:14:13
she loved she she loved running she
00:14:14
loved Triathlon she did she rode for a
00:14:17
long time um she she was very Physically
00:14:20
Active she was one of these kids that
00:14:23
that had to get if she didn't do
00:14:25
something active in the day she'd be
00:14:26
going pulling her hair out by night you
00:14:28
know she she she
00:14:30
loved she loved to be physically active
00:14:33
and what about what about music who was
00:14:36
who was she into who was big in like
00:14:38
2011 she was in she was into Justin
00:14:40
Bieber aren't we all yeah she was into
00:14:44
Kaner I'm trying to think what we played
00:14:46
at her funeral we we got Tunes off her
00:14:49
she was just into that kind of yeah I
00:14:51
can't think what was around 20110 yeah
00:14:54
yeah she did like her music she didn't
00:14:56
play anything I'm not sure she had the
00:14:57
discipline to play m play something but
00:14:59
she just loved she loved being outside
00:15:01
she loved the beach yeah um she loved
00:15:05
she loved her friends unfortunately as
00:15:07
she got older she loved
00:15:09
partying as well but yeah she just loved
00:15:11
life it was a great a great irony I
00:15:14
thought that she was desperate to get to
00:15:15
18 so she could go clubbing legally and
00:15:18
she died you know just a month before
00:15:19
18th birthday it's funny that the way I
00:15:22
I feel like that's um fairly standard
00:15:23
sort of behavior for like a lot of you
00:15:25
know 16 17 year olds you know that write
00:15:27
a passage becoming that old where you
00:15:29
just want to be older you get to our age
00:15:31
and you'd give to be a little bit
00:15:33
younger yeah yeah yeah just 10 10 years
00:15:35
younger would be great yeah so um yeah
00:15:37
so so she she she moved back to the UK
00:15:41
cuz she got into a college there so she
00:15:42
was staying with her grandparents yeah
00:15:44
and then um came uh back to New Zealand
00:15:46
in April 2011 and this is the this is
00:15:49
the last time you saw her yeah yeah yeah
00:15:51
she came back in for Easter that year
00:15:53
yeah so she she'd been in England for
00:15:54
six months she was she was really
00:15:57
enjoying it really doing well like it
00:15:59
was a really difficult I was thinking
00:16:00
about it on this morning it was a really
00:16:02
tough decision to let her go over there
00:16:05
but again she seems like it wasn't your
00:16:07
decision it wasn't really no and she set
00:16:10
the whole thing up and arranged it and
00:16:12
and you know I was just really when she
00:16:15
came back I was really proud of her that
00:16:17
she'd gone she was very close to my
00:16:19
parents and she used to fly back there
00:16:21
quite a lot but I was really proud of
00:16:23
her that she'd gone over there and set
00:16:25
up this life for herself and she was
00:16:27
doing well at college and and and she
00:16:29
came back and she'd kind of transformed
00:16:30
she'd gone over a girl and she'd come
00:16:32
back this this kind of young woman and
00:16:35
she was very confident and and and it
00:16:37
was just it was so good to see her yeah
00:16:41
what are your Reflections now on that
00:16:42
time together in that last visit just
00:16:45
that it was there's a few of them just
00:16:47
that it was really nice like um I was
00:16:50
living in fuani at the time and she her
00:16:53
mother was living in ockland and Emily
00:16:56
stayed with me part of the time and then
00:16:58
with Caroline part of the time but I
00:16:59
came up to ockland one weekend and just
00:17:01
rented an apartment and Emily came to
00:17:03
stay and her and I went out for dinner
00:17:06
it had a really nice dinner and then we
00:17:08
went for a couple of drinks
00:17:09
and and we had a couple of beers and
00:17:12
smoked a couple of cigarettes and it and
00:17:14
it was just a really together together
00:17:16
yeah it was just a really nice I think
00:17:18
that's um yeah that's I mean she was 17
00:17:20
so it says a lot about the relationship
00:17:22
though it seems like you had a real good
00:17:23
yeah it was just like it was something
00:17:25
you know you always want to you can't
00:17:26
wait to take your kids out for the first
00:17:28
kind of legal and I did it a bit early
00:17:30
but it was just really nice and
00:17:33
and and she was you know Emily was quite
00:17:36
kind of glamorous she was quite too
00:17:39
young to be glamorous but she was always
00:17:41
nicely dressed and had her hair done
00:17:42
nicely but also at home she was she was
00:17:45
just she would let herself go and not
00:17:47
let herself go but she would relax track
00:17:49
pants yeah track pants and and no makeup
00:17:51
and so it was really nice to see that
00:17:52
she was still like that and and she was
00:17:55
still still the kid time yeah yeah and
00:17:59
we went for a really nice be walk on the
00:18:00
beach one night and just chatted about
00:18:03
life and and you know she didn't really
00:18:05
talk too much about Elliot Turner then
00:18:08
even though they were kind of in a
00:18:09
relationship but there were always Boys
00:18:11
around her so I I just thought this was
00:18:13
another guy who was hanging around her
00:18:15
but she just seemed really happy and
00:18:19
we've been through quite a quite a
00:18:20
turbulent time with Cara and I
00:18:22
separating which had really affected
00:18:24
Emily
00:18:26
and we were together you know we spent a
00:18:28
bit of time all of us together and I
00:18:30
thought this is nice cuz we we can all
00:18:32
get on again now and we've kind of got
00:18:34
through that really bad part and we're
00:18:37
all quite settled in our lives again and
00:18:38
it was just a really nice moment and and
00:18:41
of course it was
00:18:43
shortlived but I just remember being
00:18:46
really happy and I was so happy to see
00:18:47
Emily it was I missed her so much it was
00:18:50
it was it was I was so happy to see her
00:18:53
can you remember um did you take her to
00:18:55
the airport or can you remember can you
00:18:57
remember your like your your last
00:18:59
goodbye because it's it's funny know you
00:19:00
thought she was just going back to the
00:19:01
UK but you didn't know it was going to
00:19:03
be the last goodbye yeah no you know the
00:19:05
last place I saw Emily was in the
00:19:08
McDonald's car park in
00:19:10
pyroa and and the last meal like she
00:19:13
loved her food and we had some great
00:19:15
meals together like we would go out for
00:19:16
dinner all the time and our last meal
00:19:18
was [ __ ] McDonald's in
00:19:20
pyroa you nothing against people love
00:19:23
McDonald's but it could have been a you
00:19:25
know could have been at a Thai
00:19:26
restaurant or a Chinese restaurant I
00:19:27
could have remembered it and and there's
00:19:28
literally like I drive through pyro
00:19:31
quite a bit on the way to teranga and I
00:19:33
still stop at the McDonald's and there's
00:19:34
a car park outside the back and that was
00:19:37
the last place I saw her because we I
00:19:39
she was in fatani with me and Caroline
00:19:41
was in Oakland and she was flying out
00:19:43
the next day I think so we met in pyro
00:19:45
because it was halfway and Caroline
00:19:47
drove off with Emily and I drove back to
00:19:49
fatani and that that car park space in P
00:19:54
was the last place I ever saw her which
00:19:56
uh um which is well the last place I
00:19:59
ever saw her alive yeah which is
00:20:02
not it's not the nicest place to go and
00:20:05
reminisce and then yeah and then the
00:20:08
week week later we got the call that she
00:20:10
was
00:20:12
dead yeah yes I I read I think this is a
00:20:15
magazine article that you that you've
00:20:16
done over the years um yeah thanks for
00:20:19
sharing that by the way she I don't
00:20:21
think I'll ever look at that McDonald's
00:20:23
the same way again there go out the back
00:20:25
there's a cup space at the back yeah um
00:20:29
it it it just it it just strikes me
00:20:32
because we did so many wonderful things
00:20:35
and saw so many great things
00:20:37
together and and that's my last memory
00:20:39
of her it's just it doesn't seem right
00:20:41
it should be oh no no but it's quite a
00:20:44
perfect in a way though like it's so
00:20:46
it's so normal it's yeah but it could
00:20:48
have been on you it could have been on
00:20:49
top of North End or something I could go
00:20:50
up there and look at the SE or somewhere
00:20:53
beautiful in New Zealand but it was it
00:20:54
was or at least in front of the giant
00:20:56
bottle of l&p or yeah so um yeah I think
00:21:00
it was like a magazine article I read
00:21:02
that you you've done over the years um
00:21:04
you talk about um the day before so
00:21:06
Sunday the 6th of May um something was
00:21:08
off like yeah you were away with the
00:21:10
theories or it was it was a Saturday um
00:21:14
she she died Saturday night in New
00:21:16
Zealand time okay so it was Saturday in
00:21:18
the day and and I uh my partner like
00:21:22
Hillary we we live in fuat we went to
00:21:24
terang for the
00:21:25
day and and I I was find it really
00:21:29
difficult to
00:21:30
concentrate and and I I just kept I just
00:21:32
kept saying something's wrong and on the
00:21:34
way home I I hit the curb a couple of
00:21:36
times with the car and she kept asking
00:21:38
me if I was all right and I just I just
00:21:40
said this I can't there's something
00:21:42
wrong I can't quite put my finger on
00:21:44
it and it was a really it was a really
00:21:47
weird feeling um and I just wasn't she
00:21:51
was talking to me I wasn't listening to
00:21:53
her and it was just really odds and I
00:21:56
remember feeling it at the time really
00:21:58
kind of su ly that I I just felt like
00:22:00
something was wrong and I I did but I
00:22:02
didn't know what and
00:22:04
then
00:22:06
um and then I I I went to bed that night
00:22:09
and at some point in the night I woke up
00:22:11
and checked my phone and there were Miss
00:22:14
calls from Caroline her mother and and
00:22:16
my mother so I found Caroline and and
00:22:19
her and Hannah were crying so I found my
00:22:23
mother and um my father put a policeman
00:22:26
on and and the policeman said there's a
00:22:28
body in the morg and we think it's Emily
00:22:31
and I thought no that can't be true
00:22:33
that's that's not it's not Emily she was
00:22:35
just here and at that point they hadn't
00:22:38
formally identified her so I thought
00:22:40
it's not going to be
00:22:41
Emily and I and so I I didn't sleep that
00:22:46
night obviously and we got on a plane
00:22:48
the next day and I I got off the plane
00:22:51
and I went straight to the
00:22:53
mor where where Emily was and and that
00:22:56
that policeman was there and and we
00:22:58
walked into this this room and there was
00:23:00
a window into another
00:23:02
room and the policeman said in a minute
00:23:06
and I just got off a flight he said in a
00:23:08
minute the light's going to come on in
00:23:10
that in that other room and you look
00:23:11
through the window and you'll see Emily
00:23:13
on the bed and and when you when you
00:23:15
feel ready you can go into the
00:23:17
room and and I thought the light's going
00:23:20
to come on and and and I'll look and it
00:23:22
won't be Emily it would just be be
00:23:24
someone else and and I
00:23:26
so I watched this light just seems to
00:23:28
take forever to come on I looked and and
00:23:30
it was Emily and she was just she was
00:23:32
lying on this bed with this sheet over
00:23:34
her and she looked like she was asleep
00:23:35
so I just thought I'm going to go and
00:23:37
wake her up she's just
00:23:39
asleep so I walked into the room and I
00:23:41
and I I walked up to her and you know
00:23:44
she was always terrible for getting out
00:23:46
of bed I was constantly going into her
00:23:47
in the morning and getting out of bed
00:23:49
like three or four times so I thought
00:23:50
I'm just going to give her a shake and
00:23:51
she'll wake up so I touched her on on
00:23:54
the cheek and it was just it was cold
00:23:56
like ice cold and she had this beautiful
00:23:58
soft
00:23:59
skin and and then I just it just
00:24:03
like it was the most horrendous feeling
00:24:06
like just everything just collapsed
00:24:08
around me and and I just realized at
00:24:10
that point she was dead and it
00:24:12
was and it was true it still took me a
00:24:14
while to really sink in
00:24:16
but it was just the the most it's like
00:24:20
all everything supporting your life all
00:24:23
the walls that support your life just
00:24:25
collapsed and fell apart and and I just
00:24:28
wanted
00:24:29
to I just wanted her to wake up I just I
00:24:32
didn't want to I didn't want to think
00:24:35
that she's not going to wake
00:24:40
up yeah I just can't imagine how um yeah
00:24:45
how yeah I mean obviously when when you
00:24:48
boarded the plane you you know you knew
00:24:50
you knew you know you knew that she had
00:24:52
pass but um I suppose it's just that
00:24:54
tangible proof and I just can't imagine
00:24:55
that moment nor can I imagine the moment
00:24:57
where you didn't have to like leave her
00:24:59
in the mor that that was the last time I
00:25:01
saw her that was the last time I saw her
00:25:04
body because it was a murder
00:25:05
investigation unknown to us so they they
00:25:08
then had to freeze her so that the body
00:25:12
which was evident still which really
00:25:14
pissed me off actually that I couldn't
00:25:16
go and see her again
00:25:19
um but yeah yeah it was it was awful
00:25:21
there are moments like I remember we had
00:25:24
a memorial service for her and and I
00:25:26
went to buy a book of condolence
00:25:29
and and I was in the shop and I didn't
00:25:32
want to buy the book cuz if I didn't buy
00:25:34
it it meant it wasn't happening but if I
00:25:37
bought the book it meant this this thing
00:25:39
was happening Hing it yeah I didn't want
00:25:41
to buy it and it was really hard to buy
00:25:44
this book and it's just little things
00:25:46
like that that you you know you just
00:25:48
think if I don't do this it's not going
00:25:50
to be true but of course it is true but
00:25:53
yeah it was just yeah it's just little
00:25:55
things like that are just they're really
00:25:57
hard to do m
00:26:00
man I'm so sorry you've been through
00:26:02
this thank you well it's you know it was
00:26:06
worse for Emily she's the real yeah
00:26:10
um so um you what when when you first
00:26:14
get the news what are your first
00:26:15
thoughts are you thinking are you
00:26:17
thinking it's something sinister or you
00:26:18
thinking it might be like a like a like
00:26:20
a like a drag overdose or some Med just
00:26:23
some undiagnosed medical condition to be
00:26:26
honest we just had we had no idea yeah
00:26:29
you're
00:26:30
right we're right yeah sorry that's okay
00:26:35
um we just had no idea like you know it
00:26:39
could have been
00:26:40
alcohol it could have been a random
00:26:44
sudden unexplained death whatever they
00:26:46
call it uh yeah I was quite I was
00:26:49
initially quite concerned for Turner
00:26:50
because I thought that's not nice waking
00:26:52
up with your girlfriend dead and in the
00:26:54
bed you know foolishly I was quite
00:26:55
concerned for him um they they did a
00:26:59
loot of drug tests she hadn't been
00:27:01
drinking a lot there were no drugs in
00:27:03
her body so can I just grab yeah
00:27:05
absolutely um yeah so there but this
00:27:09
this took a bit of time and of course
00:27:10
there was a lot of speculation and then
00:27:12
there are all these stories that we'd
00:27:14
sent over Emily over to England because
00:27:16
she'd got on them with the wrong crowd
00:27:17
and she had a drug problem and you know
00:27:19
which I thought was kind of ironic
00:27:21
because uh drugs are much easier to buy
00:27:23
in England like there a pu there's a pub
00:27:25
near my parents where they still sell
00:27:26
drugs
00:27:28
um
00:27:29
so yeah I thought it was kind of ironic
00:27:31
that people thought we'd send her to
00:27:32
England because she had a drug
00:27:34
problem but anyway there was all this
00:27:36
speculation and then after about a week
00:27:40
the police were great with us in England
00:27:42
they're really good but after about a
00:27:43
week they told us that they suspected
00:27:46
Foul Play that they thought he had done
00:27:48
something to her but they didn't know
00:27:50
what it was because he was a real
00:27:52
arrogant piece of work in the in the
00:27:55
police interviews and then so we and
00:27:57
then they thought that he'd strangled
00:27:59
her so we kept getting these kind of
00:28:01
which was a horrendous there was an
00:28:03
awful moment when when the police said
00:28:04
we think he strangled her because you
00:28:07
know that was just a think that someone
00:28:09
had put there had had violently killed
00:28:12
Emily so we we kind of went through
00:28:14
these these moments of of it just
00:28:17
getting worse and worse and
00:28:19
worse um and and then they I think in
00:28:22
the July they charged him with murder
00:28:24
but it was just the
00:28:26
most it was really conf refusing at
00:28:28
first like trying trying to work out
00:28:31
what had happened to Emily and I was
00:28:32
just kind of like well in a way it
00:28:35
doesn't really
00:28:36
matter at the moment you know because
00:28:39
we've got to deal with the fact she's
00:28:40
dead we can deal with that
00:28:43
later but then the we had to go through
00:28:46
the kind of murder thing and and just
00:28:48
thinking that someone had deliberately
00:28:49
done that to Emily was I found that
00:28:51
really upsetting that someone would
00:28:53
deliberately hurt her and you know she
00:28:55
was she was in England she was with my
00:28:57
parents and
00:28:59
I've got a big family over there but she
00:29:00
was without her parents she was kind of
00:29:03
vulnerable and it just made me really
00:29:05
sad that that he killed her in a in his
00:29:08
bedroom she was on her own you know it
00:29:10
was yeah that just made me really
00:29:12
sad how long was it before you could um
00:29:15
talk about this without without choking
00:29:18
up I'm yeah I'm getting emotional I have
00:29:21
just a little yeah um oh I still do like
00:29:25
it takes a long time
00:29:28
yeah I I still do like I thought I was
00:29:31
gonna gonna
00:29:33
then um
00:29:37
but I I can talk about it with you but
00:29:41
it's G to I'm going to be tired later
00:29:43
yeah so it's kind
00:29:45
of I'm like holding the emotion back
00:29:47
yeah it'll come out later if that makes
00:29:49
sense yeah well thanks for sharing with
00:29:51
because that's it's not just me you're
00:29:52
sharing it with it's like a broader
00:29:54
audience as well and I think it's um
00:29:55
that's yeah really other people
00:29:57
listening to this I hope so yeah I I
00:30:00
definitely think this is going to be um
00:30:02
po I hate to say the word popular but
00:30:04
it's going to be a popular episode
00:30:05
because um you know I think these are
00:30:07
important conversations to be having eh
00:30:09
yeah the more of a um a light we can
00:30:11
shine on it the better absolutely um you
00:30:13
know people talk about the five stages
00:30:15
of grief is is is that a is that a thing
00:30:18
is it is it in the order that they say
00:30:20
it is or do do you go between the five
00:30:22
things like in different sequences over
00:30:24
and over yeah do you know the thing one
00:30:26
of the things I've learned about grief
00:30:27
is it's different for everyone and uh
00:30:31
you know even if even if I meet someone
00:30:34
who's lost a
00:30:35
child the way they grieve is different
00:30:37
to the way I grieve and I think that's
00:30:39
one of the things you've got to
00:30:40
recognize about grief as it's different
00:30:42
for everyone like my my relationship
00:30:44
with Emily was different to her mother's
00:30:46
relationship with her and her sister's
00:30:47
relationship with her so the way we
00:30:49
grieve her is different so we all loved
00:30:51
her but you know she was I had my my
00:30:55
relationship with her so the way you
00:30:57
grief someone is very unique to you and
00:31:00
I think it's important so so you you
00:31:02
can't put
00:31:03
a the five stages of grief I found kind
00:31:07
of useful but it didn't really work for
00:31:09
me
00:31:11
because there's like sadness and anger
00:31:13
and L and I can't remember denial yeah
00:31:16
yeah I mean I kind of went through all
00:31:18
those but also you're going through a
00:31:20
lot of other stuff and and like look
00:31:21
Looking Back Now I can see I went
00:31:23
through a denial phase but at the time I
00:31:25
didn't realize I was going through a
00:31:26
denial phase so
00:31:28
um they they do kind of work but
00:31:32
I yeah I think grief is very unique to
00:31:35
people and also you just you find you
00:31:38
find a way that works for you like like
00:31:40
for
00:31:40
me I I wanted to find a way that I could
00:31:44
get on with my I could carry my carry on
00:31:46
my day-to-day life like I had to go back
00:31:47
to work I kind of wanted to go back to
00:31:49
work I wanted to do some normal things
00:31:53
you know some people want to shut
00:31:54
themselves off at home and and deal with
00:31:56
it that way so I I I I wanted to find
00:31:59
strategies that I could I I could
00:32:01
survive the day um and you know interact
00:32:04
with other people that that's kind of
00:32:05
how it work for me other people want to
00:32:07
just they want to do the opposite they
00:32:09
don't want to interact with other people
00:32:10
they so you just kind of find something
00:32:13
that works
00:32:14
and and like for
00:32:17
me I I I knew that Emily wouldn't
00:32:20
want anyone else to kind of suffer she
00:32:23
she would want us to carry on with our
00:32:25
with our lives and you know she'
00:32:28
obviously want us to be sad and
00:32:29
everything but she wouldn't want she
00:32:31
wouldn't have wanted me to kind of
00:32:33
collapse and give up she would have that
00:32:35
that would have been the last thing and
00:32:36
that would have done a disservice to her
00:32:38
if I if I had done that and so that that
00:32:41
really drove me on and also you know
00:32:46
I there there were nights where I I lay
00:32:50
in bed and I thought if I don't wake up
00:32:52
tomorrow I'm fine with that like I
00:32:55
didn't want to commit suicide or kill
00:32:56
myself or anything like that but I just
00:32:58
I thought I'm so this is this is really
00:33:02
so hard that if someone had said if you
00:33:05
go to sleep you won't wake up tomorrow I
00:33:07
would have gone to sleep and and and not
00:33:09
woken up and but then I
00:33:11
thought that would have upset people you
00:33:14
know they would have been dealing with
00:33:15
Emily and then with me and and that
00:33:17
that's I just thought that's that's not
00:33:18
what I want to do it's other so I just
00:33:21
thought I want
00:33:22
to I want to carry on and and do the
00:33:25
things I want to do
00:33:27
um because that's what Emily would have
00:33:29
wanted so you know you can
00:33:33
find I'm not the only one who says this
00:33:35
you know lots of people it's in in times
00:33:37
of great hardship sometimes you just
00:33:40
find that strength you know and and you
00:33:42
don't think you've got it but you do and
00:33:44
and lots of people have done it you know
00:33:47
I'm sure you've done it at times as well
00:33:48
you know you just you do whatever it is
00:33:52
yeah well the um you know the the sun's
00:33:55
going to rise and fall each day with the
00:33:57
with with you like it or not is that's
00:33:59
right yeah well this is the other thing
00:34:00
you realize that you know the sun comes
00:34:03
up tomorrow the life life carries on and
00:34:08
you know I I kind of I mean I know
00:34:11
people are passionate about sport but I
00:34:14
kind of I you know people get so upset
00:34:16
because the All Blacks lose or something
00:34:17
and I think well you know that's
00:34:18
actually not going to affect your life
00:34:19
you know this the sun's still going to
00:34:21
come up tomorrow you're still going to
00:34:22
get on
00:34:23
and if that's the worst thing that
00:34:25
happens to you this month that's not a
00:34:26
bad thing
00:34:28
unless they get beaten by Italy which
00:34:30
case that's pretty bad um did you did
00:34:32
you um G therapy or professional help
00:34:35
how did you yeah yeah I did I I I went
00:34:37
through I had three counselors and the
00:34:39
first two I didn't I didn't deel with
00:34:42
not no no thought of them but they just
00:34:44
it takes a while to find the right one
00:34:46
it does yeah and you know I kind of I
00:34:50
knew I was sad I knew why I was sad I
00:34:53
didn't really want to discuss that I
00:34:54
wanted to discuss coping strategies and
00:34:56
so the third one I said look I I know
00:35:00
about the five stages of grief I know
00:35:02
I'm sad I know all this I I really want
00:35:05
you to help me be able to go to work in
00:35:07
the morning and not have to go and sit
00:35:08
in my car for half an hour because I
00:35:10
think I'm going to start crying and so
00:35:12
she gave me some really good strategies
00:35:13
to deal with that and and so yeah I saw
00:35:16
her for quite a long time and any any
00:35:18
books or anything that you found
00:35:19
particularly useful I did read some
00:35:21
books I can't remember what they called
00:35:22
there's a very good book written by a
00:35:24
female author and she interviews
00:35:28
parents of people who lost their
00:35:30
children and there's some horrific
00:35:32
stories and so I I I read that and I
00:35:35
found that really
00:35:37
interesting there there was there's a
00:35:38
good play called something rabbit it was
00:35:42
a TV film with Nicole Kidman and Aaron
00:35:44
art which it's about a couple who who
00:35:47
lose their son and and and it really
00:35:49
examines the different way men and women
00:35:52
grieve um and then there's a there's a a
00:35:57
rower I Rob Rob haml is his name yeah
00:36:01
Rob HL yes yeah who lost his
00:36:04
brother in a Cambodian prison cell and
00:36:07
he lived in fatani and by coincidence we
00:36:10
met we met up with each
00:36:12
other and his brother was tortured in a
00:36:16
Cambodian jail for two years before his
00:36:19
his kind of skin and bones body was was
00:36:22
finally
00:36:24
killed and I just thought geez that
00:36:27
would be horr
00:36:28
you know that I was feeling sorry for
00:36:30
myself but I
00:36:31
thought at least Emily wasn't tortured
00:36:33
and you know she she died fairly quickly
00:36:37
so I kind of thought actually there's
00:36:39
people who have experienced this far
00:36:41
worse than I have so there you know
00:36:43
there were a few things and and talking
00:36:45
to Rob was really good I think he's
00:36:47
living on a boat now
00:36:48
somewhere um and you know I just and the
00:36:52
same with David White's book because he
00:36:54
had to tell his daughter's children that
00:36:57
the mother was dead which would have
00:36:59
been horrendous too and I thought [ __ ]
00:37:00
that I was feeling sorry for myself but
00:37:03
I thought well at least I don't have to
00:37:04
tell him he daughter that she's died
00:37:07
yeah so it's just a kind
00:37:09
of yeah it was a few things yeah yeah
00:37:12
well there that saying comparisons the
00:37:14
theft of Joy but you can compare down
00:37:17
sometimes that's uh that can be helpful
00:37:19
oh definitely you know if you're feeling
00:37:20
sorry for yourself there's always people
00:37:22
who have who have either done it as bad
00:37:24
or worse and and it snaps you out of and
00:37:27
I was glad about that cuz I didn't want
00:37:28
to feel sorry for myself I wanted to I
00:37:30
wanted to feel sorry for
00:37:32
Emily I I um I have a card here to um
00:37:36
talk about the trial a little bit
00:37:38
because it's like a very unique thing
00:37:39
that most of us fortunately would never
00:37:41
go through did you want to are you okay
00:37:42
to talk about that okay um yeah how
00:37:45
stressful is
00:37:47
that you you were there every day right
00:37:49
you attended the trial and why why was
00:37:51
that important to
00:37:52
you uh I think primarily we wanted to
00:37:55
support Emily yeah and I wanted to I
00:37:58
wanted the truth to come out right but
00:38:00
yeah I just think yeah must be a hard
00:38:03
thing to set through though oh it's
00:38:05
horrendous like it it's horrendous
00:38:08
because because obviously I me he's not
00:38:11
on trial but this is something that is
00:38:13
incredibly important to us but we we're
00:38:15
just Spectators we sit in the spectator
00:38:17
Gallery we've got no input in the trial
00:38:20
you're just sitting there watching
00:38:21
listening to this thing play out and you
00:38:23
can't like I wanted to stand up at times
00:38:25
and Shout you know shout that's bollocks
00:38:27
or that's crap but luckily we had a
00:38:29
really good legal team and we would meet
00:38:31
at the end of every day and kind of
00:38:33
debrief but there was one point we were
00:38:36
at Winchester Crown Court and the public
00:38:38
Gallery was above the court and Turner
00:38:41
was on the stand and he was being
00:38:43
particularly lwd about the last sex he
00:38:46
had with
00:38:48
Emily and and I I wanted to shut him up
00:38:52
and so I walk down and I put my hands on
00:38:54
the door of the court and and to as you
00:38:57
walk I didn't go through but as you went
00:38:59
through there was the Press so I thought
00:39:00
well I can get past them then there was
00:39:02
the police and I thought if I'm really
00:39:03
running fast the police won't stop me
00:39:06
they won't have time to stop me and I
00:39:08
thought I can get to him and I thought I
00:39:10
can just shut him up I just wanted to
00:39:11
shut him up and stop him talking about
00:39:12
em like that so I stood at the doors and
00:39:15
my knu I remember seeing my Knuckles
00:39:16
white but I didn't go through and I told
00:39:18
the police later and they said thank God
00:39:20
you didn't go through yeah but but I I
00:39:23
was you know I was so incensed and and I
00:39:25
couldn't do anything and I just thought
00:39:27
I just I wanted to I want to to shut him
00:39:29
up but but you the the trial we we found
00:39:33
out the case against ter of the day
00:39:35
before the trial and that's when I found
00:39:38
out all the details I didn't know
00:39:39
anything before that I found out all the
00:39:42
details about the abuse and how long it
00:39:44
had gone on for and the physical abuse
00:39:45
and the the the verbal abuse abuse and
00:39:49
the threats and and and I I just
00:39:53
thought why Why did no one stop him like
00:39:56
why did no one Reign him in why why why
00:39:59
did no one do anything I just I couldn't
00:40:00
believe it I just
00:40:02
thought it's it's so obvious he was
00:40:04
going to kill her that you know why did
00:40:06
no one spot that it was just it just it
00:40:10
really um it really just made me sad and
00:40:13
really baffled me but then you the trial
00:40:17
happened and I
00:40:18
remember it was just draining like it
00:40:22
was a year after she died we were still
00:40:25
coming to terms with that we I I
00:40:27
personally kind of put my grief on hold
00:40:30
so that until after the trial and just
00:40:33
to sit there for five weeks I think it
00:40:35
was was draining like I had nothing left
00:40:37
at the end of it I was so I was so happy
00:40:40
that he was found guilty and we could
00:40:43
sto going I I just had nothing left it
00:40:45
was it was
00:40:47
just just there's the there's the
00:40:50
tension that you want the right right
00:40:52
results and and I wanted the right
00:40:54
result for Emily because there was a lot
00:40:55
of bad stuff written about her and I
00:40:58
wanted the world to know that that
00:40:59
wasn't her she
00:41:01
hadn't she hadn't bought this on herself
00:41:03
like there's there's always speculation
00:41:05
you know wh why was she in a club by
00:41:06
herself why was she doing this people
00:41:09
were asking me did she bring it on
00:41:10
herself like why didn't she break up
00:41:12
with him you know it's all irrelevant I
00:41:15
wanted to I it's victim blaming isn't it
00:41:17
it is victim blaming yeah yeah you know
00:41:19
she's a 17-year-old girl she know what
00:41:20
danger she was
00:41:22
in um and and and so I I wanted the
00:41:26
truth to come out for her
00:41:27
so we could lay her to
00:41:29
rest and also I just thought he's
00:41:31
incredibly dangerous if he gets off this
00:41:33
he'll just do it again so I wanted him
00:41:35
put
00:41:36
away but but to sit through that for
00:41:38
five
00:41:39
weeks and the drama of the trial they
00:41:42
were because there was no obvious cause
00:41:44
of death and it was very difficult to
00:41:46
establish that so it was about a week
00:41:47
period I think where we didn't know
00:41:49
whether we were winning or
00:41:52
losing and then we kind of turned that
00:41:54
point when when Turner got on the stand
00:41:56
he basically I think I think he pretty
00:41:57
much convicted
00:41:58
himself so after that it got a bit
00:42:01
easier but it's just incredibly draining
00:42:03
I I I remember in the
00:42:05
um the who's who's the Blade Runner um
00:42:10
Oscar ptus storus he is you know the
00:42:12
trial I met Jun stin camp for a few
00:42:15
years later but people people were very
00:42:17
critical of her because she sat and
00:42:18
caught with her glasses on looking very
00:42:21
Stern and not not showing any emotion
00:42:24
and I thought well you don't know what
00:42:25
that's like you know sitting in a in a
00:42:28
trial when when someone's been accused
00:42:30
of murdering your daughter you I
00:42:31
absolutely understood why she was doing
00:42:33
that it's it's such a hard thing to go
00:42:36
through it was the same with the
00:42:38
um with with Grace Main's parents you
00:42:41
know it's such a hard thing to sit there
00:42:43
and listen to a story about someone
00:42:46
putting your daughter into a suitcase
00:42:48
and burying her in the white you know
00:42:50
that's just horrendous to to listen to
00:42:53
and you can't do anything about it you
00:42:54
know you're just you're you're sitting
00:42:56
there as an obser ever so I feel for
00:42:58
anyone who has to sit through a murder
00:43:01
trial it's really hard work and the um
00:43:04
the the the crown uh legal team like
00:43:07
what do they do to um sort of like
00:43:09
manage your expectations in term in
00:43:11
terms of a verdict they they were they
00:43:14
were very confident about their case but
00:43:16
the and and it had everything like she
00:43:19
was in his bedroom she died there he had
00:43:22
been there was a whole catalog of
00:43:24
aggressive behavior before that but it
00:43:25
didn't have a obvious cause of death and
00:43:27
in in the end he he did the choke hold
00:43:30
on her um which cuts the oxygen off to
00:43:32
your brain and it's kind of doesn't
00:43:34
leave many marks but fortunately left
00:43:36
enough so if there had been an obvious
00:43:39
cause of death I think it would have
00:43:40
been we all would have been fairly
00:43:42
confident so they they were very upfront
00:43:45
about that they they told me what the
00:43:46
case was against her but there was a
00:43:49
problem because they had to prove he
00:43:51
killed her and that wasn't
00:43:54
obvious but we had a great um we had a
00:43:58
great legal team so after every day we
00:44:00
would we would meet in the in an office
00:44:04
and just go through the day and we gave
00:44:06
some good things that
00:44:08
um for example Emily didn't take a
00:44:11
makeup off and I said she always took
00:44:13
her makeup off it doesn't matter how
00:44:14
drunk she was or what what time it was
00:44:16
she always took her makeup off so there
00:44:18
were just little things like that
00:44:19
that which was in the end became kind of
00:44:21
a key piece of Mees because they of
00:44:24
evidence because they found her traces
00:44:26
of her makeup on on
00:44:27
shirt so yeah the the legal team were
00:44:32
really good but they were they were they
00:44:35
would constantly tell us we don't know
00:44:37
how this is going they didn't build up
00:44:40
our expectation too
00:44:41
highly yeah CU from like from an
00:44:44
outsider's perspective it seems like an
00:44:46
open shut case right like it seems like
00:44:48
UNF fathomable that there'd be like a
00:44:50
chance of anything other than a guilty
00:44:52
verdict like the from this manhard
00:44:54
documentary it's uh yeah mean there's
00:44:56
the Co recordings of his yeah parents
00:44:59
talking about what went on the even like
00:45:01
text messages that he sent to his
00:45:03
parents saying saying he's going to give
00:45:04
her a hiding and things like that yeah
00:45:06
and oh the heartbreaking thing for me
00:45:08
was the the note um of Emil's that she
00:45:10
wrote it was like a bullet point of yeah
00:45:12
yeah you know saying how much he loves
00:45:14
him and that it's sexier when he's you
00:45:15
know not being aggressive and things
00:45:17
yeah please don't say you're going to
00:45:18
kill me yeah it's just devastating yeah
00:45:20
but but that you you kind of watch that
00:45:22
package together in that documentary
00:45:25
it's packaged together with hindsight
00:45:26
whereas
00:45:27
in the court like like the letter was
00:45:28
bought out on one day the recordings
00:45:31
were played on another day so that it
00:45:33
wasn't all packaged up into into what if
00:45:35
that makes sense we we're kind of
00:45:36
watching it play out in real time
00:45:39
so it it does it seems obvious in
00:45:42
hindsight but like in week one you you
00:45:45
still weren't really too sure what had
00:45:47
happened because the evidence hadn't
00:45:48
been played out fully so it's kind of
00:45:50
dragged out a bit in in court a bit more
00:45:52
but yeah I can I see so when the crown
00:45:54
lawyers are speaking you like I is
00:45:56
guilty as soon and when his lawyers are
00:45:58
defending him you're like oh okay maybe
00:45:59
yeah I me when you look at the evidence
00:46:02
kind of all packaged together it it was
00:46:04
obvious that he'd done it but when it's
00:46:05
spread out over four weeks it's it's not
00:46:08
it wasn't quite so obvious but then you
00:46:11
know you you've got a jury you don't
00:46:12
know what the jury are going to think
00:46:13
you don't know what they're thinking um
00:46:16
they have to believe Beyond reasonable
00:46:17
doubts so that the and the prosecution
00:46:20
has to prove that so it's just you never
00:46:22
really know that's why it was such a
00:46:24
relief when they said we find him guilty
00:46:26
like it was it was a bitter sweet moment
00:46:29
I was I was just really happy for Emily
00:46:32
but at the same time it didn't really
00:46:33
change anything yeah and his parents
00:46:35
ended up um doing
00:46:38
um um prison sentences as well for years
00:46:41
being involved after so they hadn't been
00:46:43
on trial at that point so they were in
00:46:45
court supporting him no they were on
00:46:47
trial as well oh at the same time at the
00:46:49
same time okay yeah yeah we we used to
00:46:52
see them they cuz they weren't on they
00:46:54
they they
00:46:55
were they were on Ran So that he Turner
00:46:58
was going back to prison every night but
00:46:59
they were just going home so there's one
00:47:01
time when I I went into the toilets and
00:47:03
Turner's father was just there using the
00:47:05
urinol and it was just a weird moment oh
00:47:09
my God that is so weird you think that
00:47:11
would be like a ground with is you
00:47:16
know yeah guilty and not guilty toet wow
00:47:20
did you acknowledge each other or no I
00:47:23
just I just ignored him yeah we we we
00:47:25
were because they knew knew that we were
00:47:27
going to see them in the courts that
00:47:29
they told us not to not to engage them
00:47:31
at all because you can you can you can
00:47:34
be accused of trying to affect the trial
00:47:37
so I I just ignored them so their
00:47:39
behavior was Despicable um like playing
00:47:43
Devil's Advocate after watching The
00:47:44
Manhunt thing you know like his his
00:47:46
friends that didn't didn't do anything
00:47:48
or didn't intervene or didn't you know
00:47:49
call him out for his appalling Behavior
00:47:52
I was thinking well you know perhaps
00:47:53
they were intimidated by him or whatever
00:47:55
you know dumb reason but whatever but
00:47:57
his parents inexcusable absolutely
00:48:00
inexcusable yeah yeah I mean it was I
00:48:03
think it was more him his mother who was
00:48:06
completely boted with him boted with him
00:48:08
and and completely you know tunnel
00:48:10
vision that he didn't do it and and
00:48:12
there was some there were some moments
00:48:13
in the trial I think they're on that
00:48:15
documentary where Elliot Turner says she
00:48:18
ruined my life and his mother says yes
00:48:21
she did and and so I think they they
00:48:24
blamed Emily for you know as far as they
00:48:27
were concerned it was Emily's fault the
00:48:29
father I think was a bit
00:48:31
more um was a bit sadder but he he still
00:48:34
went along with it but you know what one
00:48:36
of the things I found really sad for
00:48:37
Emily was was they they found her body
00:48:41
and they waited an hour before they C
00:48:42
called the ambulance and I just thought
00:48:44
just give her the Dignity of getting the
00:48:46
body out of there and having someone
00:48:48
deal with it instead of making her lie
00:48:50
there in this bed for an hour while you
00:48:53
con cut your stories and get your story
00:48:55
straight I just thought you know that
00:48:57
was I just thought it was really
00:48:59
cowardly and really sad and just showed
00:49:02
them for who they were and and I was so
00:49:04
happy that they went to prison it was
00:49:06
just it was great it wouldn't have been
00:49:08
nice for them prison and the um
00:49:12
deliberations how long did they last for
00:49:14
what was what was that experience like
00:49:16
the deliberations yeah um that was a
00:49:19
couple of days was what do you do none
00:49:23
of it nice like there's not I don't look
00:49:26
back and are you that was that was a fun
00:49:28
bit of the
00:49:29
trial it was all it was all pretty
00:49:32
horrendous but you you just you just sit
00:49:35
in a room like you can't do anything you
00:49:37
try and go for a walk but then you're
00:49:39
worried the jury might come back when
00:49:41
the jury breaks for lunch you go and
00:49:42
have lunch but you just sit in this room
00:49:45
waiting and and you can't concentrate on
00:49:47
anything else you can't do
00:49:50
anything and they they have a code I
00:49:54
they might do it here but they have a
00:49:56
code in in England where they changed
00:49:59
the way if if the jury if something
00:50:01
happens that they'll say the jury's
00:50:03
retiring for lunch or the jury's gone
00:50:05
for the day and if it's a verdict they
00:50:07
changed the wording slightly I can't
00:50:08
remember what it was so we were sitting
00:50:10
there and they made this jury
00:50:11
announcement using the other wording and
00:50:13
the police said that that's a
00:50:15
verdict and we were downstairs in the
00:50:19
courtroom and you had to walk up two
00:50:21
flights of
00:50:22
stairs and it was the slowest walk of my
00:50:24
life just it was really each step we had
00:50:28
to walk up to the public Gallery which
00:50:30
is at the top of the
00:50:31
court and and I was just I was there
00:50:34
with Hannah and we just we hugged each
00:50:37
other for a bit of moral support
00:50:39
Hannah's my other
00:50:40
daughter and it it was just a really
00:50:43
slow walk up that those steps to get up
00:50:46
there like we' walked up them every day
00:50:48
up and down them every
00:50:49
day and then waiting for the you know
00:50:53
they go through the formalities the jury
00:50:54
sits down the guy stands up it's like
00:50:57
just get on with it just yell out guilty
00:51:01
don't be doing all this judge have you
00:51:02
reached a verdict
00:51:04
yeah um so yeah it was it and then they
00:51:08
said guilty
00:51:10
and and it was just already happy but
00:51:13
sad moment yeah what is that just relief
00:51:16
yeah it was relief like like I said I
00:51:18
was reliefed for Emily and I was
00:51:19
relieved that he was going to prison and
00:51:21
I was relieved we didn't have to go back
00:51:22
to courts and I was relieved that that
00:51:24
that because because
00:51:27
there were various things we had to get
00:51:28
through we had to deal with Emily's
00:51:30
death and and The Grieving around that
00:51:32
we had to deal with the court case and
00:51:34
then he appealed so we had to deal with
00:51:35
the appeal
00:51:37
subsequently and so I just kind of
00:51:39
compartmentalized it and I thought okay
00:51:41
I'm going to get through the trial and
00:51:42
if he's
00:51:44
guilty I don't I can just I can put that
00:51:46
away I don't have to think about it
00:51:48
again so it was nice not to have to deal
00:51:50
with that and also it meant I didn't
00:51:51
have to think about him for 16 years I
00:51:53
mean he's I think he's out in three
00:51:55
years now so I could just I could just I
00:51:58
could park him as well I didn't have to
00:51:59
deal with him for a while and I could I
00:52:02
could just focus on on dealing with
00:52:04
Emily and and and and that
00:52:09
situation yeah how do how do you feel
00:52:11
about the parole thing three years from
00:52:13
now is that something you given much
00:52:15
thought to how how you feel or yeah I'm
00:52:17
starting to you know I'm fairly
00:52:18
humanitarian and I and I I believe that
00:52:21
prison should reform people except in
00:52:22
his case they should put him in the
00:52:23
bottom of a pit shut the door and just
00:52:26
Chuck Down Rotten bits of meat for the
00:52:29
rest of his life you know I I would be
00:52:30
quite happy with that ju Just for him
00:52:33
now I I think like when they said 16
00:52:35
years I thought that's quite a long time
00:52:37
but now there's three years to go it
00:52:39
doesn't feel long enough and and and
00:52:42
he's going to get out of prison and his
00:52:43
punishment will be behind him and he'll
00:52:46
still have whatever he has of his life
00:52:47
left ahead of him and that just doesn't
00:52:49
seem
00:52:50
fair that you know yeah it just doesn't
00:52:53
seem fair and it and and now it's coming
00:52:57
um up I don't it's going to be hard when
00:53:00
he does get
00:53:02
out I I get an update from the prison
00:53:04
service every year apparently he's going
00:53:07
through he's doing the right things to
00:53:09
ticking the boxes he's ticking the boxes
00:53:11
he he's he's admitted apparently that he
00:53:13
that he killed her and he's admitted
00:53:15
that he's well he's wrong whether he's
00:53:16
actually admitted that I don't know
00:53:17
whether he's just saying it because you
00:53:19
part of the parole is obviously you have
00:53:20
to you have to admit what you did and
00:53:23
you have to admit that you know it was
00:53:25
wrong so I kind of you know
00:53:30
and that that's what the judge decided
00:53:32
and there's nothing I can do about that
00:53:35
so we just have to deal with it but it
00:53:37
does seem sad you know hopefully he'll
00:53:39
[ __ ] up and go back to
00:53:47
prison
00:53:50
um you hear uh quite about like a news
00:53:54
media and stuff um I suppose mainly in
00:53:57
Pacific communities about um you when
00:53:59
when something like this happens family
00:54:01
often say they they forgive the person
00:54:02
that did it and I suppose a lot of it is
00:54:04
um just to to make their load easier to
00:54:07
carry or whatever how do you how do you
00:54:09
feel forgiveness towards T yeah I'm
00:54:11
going to have I'm going to have to at
00:54:12
some points I think you know no you
00:54:14
don't have to I don't think I I don't
00:54:16
think I could it's it's an interesting
00:54:18
one though isn't it because like um you
00:54:22
know it's really the ultimate thing you
00:54:24
can do is to forgive them and that and
00:54:27
that really sets you way above them I
00:54:30
mean I I'm kind of I'm thinking I have
00:54:34
to one day but I don't know if I can
00:54:36
really I don't know if I can actually
00:54:38
forgive him it's a hard one I'm I'm not
00:54:41
really I'm not really religious um
00:54:44
although I had a religious
00:54:46
upbringing a Catholic upbringing where
00:54:48
the kind of you know forgiveness is a
00:54:50
key part of
00:54:51
that and I do kind of um
00:54:57
I do I think it takes a lot to truly
00:54:59
forgive someone something I think it
00:55:02
takes a lot of uh strength so I kind of
00:55:06
like the idea of it but I just don't
00:55:08
know if I can do it I don't know if I'm
00:55:09
big enough no one could blame you like
00:55:11
it's it's it's unforgivable it is really
00:55:14
um yeah you know I I I think I if I saw
00:55:18
him I could control myself enough even
00:55:21
though still
00:55:22
now I I would really want to hurt him
00:55:25
but I wouldn't
00:55:27
but you
00:55:28
know so I yeah I I don't know it's kind
00:55:32
of three years away and it's quite nice
00:55:35
not to have to think about him for
00:55:36
another three years it's going to go
00:55:39
quick um how's Hanah so that's um
00:55:42
Emily's younger sister yeah yeah yeah
00:55:45
she's not so young now she's she's 29
00:55:47
yeah yeah yes yes she's good she
00:55:50
um both henah and I after some time had
00:55:54
passed uh thought you know we want to
00:55:57
try and do some good for this
00:55:59
because you know it I think everybody
00:56:03
would have liked that so she's she's
00:56:05
gone into um she's she works with
00:56:09
suicidal teenagers wow so she yeah so
00:56:12
she's she's pretty full on but she's
00:56:15
kind of decided she wanted to go go down
00:56:16
that path and help help young people I
00:56:18
mean Emily wasn't suicidal but she she
00:56:22
had some she went through some tough
00:56:24
times especially after we got divorced
00:56:25
so she kind of
00:56:27
and I wanted to help other teenagers who
00:56:29
are having a tough time she's doing a
00:56:31
really good job of it yeah oh that's
00:56:33
brilliant yeah um what are the biggest
00:56:35
lessons you've learned about resilience
00:56:36
you
00:56:37
think uh you must be um way more
00:56:41
resilient than what you ever imagin yes
00:56:43
well that I think that's lesson number
00:56:45
one is that you're more resilient than
00:56:47
you think you are um
00:56:50
and I think also you know I mean that
00:56:55
that advert by junk Coen keeps coming
00:56:57
into my mind just just find something
00:57:00
just cling on to something and it's true
00:57:02
you know you there are little things
00:57:04
that that you can just cling on
00:57:06
to um but but also also you know being
00:57:11
resilient doesn't mean not being sad you
00:57:14
know you can still cry you can still be
00:57:15
sad you can still have bad days it
00:57:17
doesn't mean you're not resilient it's
00:57:18
kind of a resilience is a kind of a
00:57:21
long-term a long-term thing of getting
00:57:23
yourself to a position you want to be in
00:57:26
but you know it does you're not weak if
00:57:28
you if you cry you break down or you you
00:57:31
can't go to work on any particular day
00:57:32
or you want to stay in bed you know
00:57:34
that's not you can still be resilient
00:57:36
and so it's yeah
00:57:40
um
00:57:41
and yeah there's a lot of talk there's a
00:57:44
lot talked about resilience and being
00:57:46
tough but I think you know sometimes
00:57:48
showing your emotions is is a can be a
00:57:51
really positive thing to do but a hard
00:57:53
thing to do yeah I agree I
00:57:56
I think it's wonderful in the fact that
00:57:58
um you know she passed away 13 years ago
00:57:59
and it's still um deeply deeply sad it
00:58:02
just speaks a lot about the um the
00:58:04
impact that she had on you and the love
00:58:06
that you had for her what um what things
00:58:09
make you think of her now apart from the
00:58:11
the Pyro McDonald's car pack like do you
00:58:15
when you drive past like a top shop
00:58:17
where uh yeah you don't have you don't
00:58:19
have top shops here like the beach I was
00:58:22
thinking of about when I go to the beach
00:58:23
particularly takapuna Beach Casta Bay
00:58:26
which I live near now um the beach
00:58:29
Summer she loves
00:58:30
summer um I drive past her schools all
00:58:33
the time just places because I I live
00:58:35
quite near to where where she kind of
00:58:38
grew up on the
00:58:39
NorthShore and any place we used to go
00:58:41
to um but just something will happen and
00:58:45
I just I just think any would have
00:58:46
thought that was really
00:58:48
funny and of course I you know I've got
00:58:50
I've had more kids and every time one of
00:58:53
my kids looks like Emily which is
00:58:56
kind of a bit
00:58:58
weird but also every time I see them I
00:59:00
just think Emily would have loved them
00:59:03
like it's it's so sad that they don't
00:59:04
know her they they know of her and we
00:59:06
talk about her but it's so sad because
00:59:08
she would have been um they would have
00:59:10
just loved it she would have been so
00:59:12
good Hannah's fantastic with
00:59:14
them so every and this is why you know
00:59:17
when you said earlier about grief
00:59:18
getting easier in some ways it doesn't
00:59:20
because things happen in your life and
00:59:21
you just think I wish em was here so you
00:59:24
just miss them I mean it's like like if
00:59:26
you if you lose a parent and you get
00:59:28
married you wish your parents were there
00:59:29
when you have kids you wish your parents
00:59:31
were there to see your kids you know
00:59:32
these things happen that just make
00:59:34
you quite sad a long time afterwards
00:59:38
yeah but I I just you know I I just I
00:59:41
wish every was here to be with my kids
00:59:43
they would have loved
00:59:45
her how long how long was it after she
00:59:47
passed that you um like smiled or
00:59:51
laughed again like was there a moment
00:59:53
where you're like oh [ __ ] this is the
00:59:55
this is the first time I found happy in
00:59:56
a long time yeah I tell you what it was
00:59:58
I I um I was really I didn't I wasn't
01:00:02
happy for a long time I didn't think I
01:00:04
was ever going to be happy again and
01:00:07
Emily's birthday was on February the
01:00:10
22nd
01:00:12
and um I think I saw I found that really
01:00:16
difficult this was three years I think
01:00:18
after she died I found the birth day
01:00:20
really difficult and I thought I've got
01:00:22
to get through this day every every year
01:00:24
and I was feeling really low and I
01:00:26
thinking I can't do this and then um I
01:00:30
went to see my
01:00:31
counselor and and and Hillary was
01:00:33
pregnant my partner was pregnant and
01:00:36
then Hunter came six weeks
01:00:39
prematurely and the minute he was
01:00:42
born I just and I was really worried
01:00:45
about how am I going to love a baby
01:00:46
while I'm mourning another child but
01:00:49
then um he came along and I just thought
01:00:54
you pull yourself together and and I was
01:00:56
really you know I bonded with him and I
01:00:59
do you have kids I it's
01:01:03
like you worry about things before you
01:01:05
have kids but then when the kids are
01:01:06
born you you just get on with it and so
01:01:10
it was really having him I just started
01:01:12
to to that that was my investment back
01:01:14
in life which is which is a bit of a a
01:01:18
catchphrase but people say you've got to
01:01:19
find something to reinvest back in life
01:01:21
with and and that and it was him coming
01:01:23
along that made me um
01:01:27
that that made me think actually I I'm
01:01:29
going to pull myself together because
01:01:31
I've got another
01:01:32
child and and the the first time you you
01:01:35
started to sort of like feel feel happy
01:01:37
again or get on with it like was there
01:01:38
like a a sense of guilt oh go you it's
01:01:40
huge yeah I mean this this is one of the
01:01:42
nice things now is that I can be happy
01:01:44
and laugh and I don't feel guilty but oh
01:01:47
God there's a huge huge sense of guilt
01:01:49
you think how why am I laughing and when
01:01:51
you see other people happy you think why
01:01:53
are they happy do they not know what's
01:01:55
happened
01:01:56
but yeah yeah there's a huge sense of
01:01:57
guilt it's it's yeah but then you you
01:01:59
kind of learn
01:02:01
well you know actually Emily wouldn't
01:02:03
want me to sit at home being miserable
01:02:05
the whole time she she'd want me to be
01:02:06
happy and and I I can talk about her and
01:02:09
and smile about her and be happy in my
01:02:11
memories of her now which is a nice
01:02:13
thing so but yeah yeah yeah there huge
01:02:15
there huge guilt yeah you you you see
01:02:18
something and you think oh that's nice
01:02:20
and and then you think well don't stop
01:02:22
it you can't be you can't look at that
01:02:23
and think that's nice your daughter's
01:02:25
just died is that a constant is it just
01:02:27
something that's that's there every day
01:02:29
it eases you you I I don't have that now
01:02:33
that that was very much in the aftermath
01:02:34
yeah I I don't have that now and so her
01:02:37
birthday is now February 22nd what 22nd
01:02:39
yeah yeah what do they look like what do
01:02:41
you do do you you and henna get together
01:02:43
yeah yeah we do Emily
01:02:45
loved um I I make this thae green curry
01:02:50
which she used to love like I used to
01:02:51
make a batch of it and she'd have it for
01:02:52
breakfast lunch and dinner so I cook I
01:02:55
cook one of those and we just get
01:02:56
together and we talk about her her
01:02:57
birthday is usually quite nice the the
01:03:00
anniversary of her death which is May
01:03:01
the 7th is that's a horrible day because
01:03:04
there's just nothing nice about it it I
01:03:06
you can't dread it coming and then it
01:03:09
comes and then you're relieved you don't
01:03:10
have to go through it again for another
01:03:11
year it's just it's yeah it's not nice I
01:03:15
try and make a birthday a celebration
01:03:17
that my my kids come we have a birthday
01:03:18
cake and we we make it as if she was
01:03:21
here but obviously she's not
01:03:26
do you dream about her yeah I do yeah
01:03:29
really still yeah yeah yeah it's nice
01:03:31
but it's quite sad as well like I I
01:03:34
I I I I I had an operation a few years
01:03:37
ago and they put me under
01:03:39
anesthetic and I dreamt while I was
01:03:42
under the anesthetic I was I was sitting
01:03:44
in a room like this talking to Emily
01:03:46
like we're talking and we were talking
01:03:49
as if she was dead and I was and and and
01:03:52
I had this brief time with
01:03:54
her and then
01:03:56
the
01:03:57
anesthetic the do person W me up and I
01:03:59
was say no no don't wake me up don't
01:04:00
wake me up I want to go back to sleep
01:04:03
and it was such a lovely dream it was
01:04:04
like we we we were just catching up like
01:04:08
like we hadn't seen each other for a
01:04:09
while and so and she's sto 17 in the
01:04:12
dreams she's different ages yeah
01:04:15
sometimes she's younger sometimes she's
01:04:16
older yeah yes she's she's
01:04:20
different well there was one other photo
01:04:22
I found online yeah which just just
01:04:25
beautiful where where's that what's the
01:04:27
what's that photograph that that is
01:04:29
that's when Emily was over for for
01:04:31
Easter sorry and um when when you drive
01:04:34
from fatani to rotaru you go past the
01:04:36
Lakes I don't know if you've ever done
01:04:37
that drive there's a whole load of lakes
01:04:39
I can't remember which lake this is but
01:04:41
it's it's beautiful so in this part of
01:04:44
the photo there's there's a lake and
01:04:45
then behind us there's these batches and
01:04:48
we just stop because I I love
01:04:50
the I I I love this little area and and
01:04:53
it's always misty here and then over
01:04:55
here there's a big Bank of of kind of
01:04:58
Cliff with trees on it it's just it's
01:05:00
really peaceful so I stopped there with
01:05:03
on the way back from root to with Emily
01:05:05
and Hanah I just put my arm around and
01:05:08
Hillary just took this photo and yeah
01:05:10
it's a lovely photo it it's completely
01:05:12
spontaneous like she's looking at the
01:05:14
camera I don't know I just put my arm
01:05:16
around her and I still stop there now
01:05:19
it's a much nicer place to remember her
01:05:23
than yeah yeah so so when I go when I
01:05:26
make that drive which isn't often now I
01:05:29
still stop there it's a beautiful spot
01:05:31
yeah that photo um stood I forget where
01:05:34
I found it it was just online somewhere
01:05:35
but it stood out to me because um she's
01:05:38
at that age where she could quite easily
01:05:40
like not want anything to do with you
01:05:42
you know Dad's a pain in the ass or
01:05:43
whatever but um you can just see the
01:05:45
love there um you from you to her and
01:05:48
her to you you know it's just it's such
01:05:50
a a beautiful and natural and candid
01:05:52
photo yeah she you know she I obviously
01:05:56
obviously I was a huge source of
01:05:57
embarrassment to her on many occasions
01:05:59
but but you're right but yeah yeah yeah
01:06:02
and but I kind of
01:06:05
think but but but she was still always
01:06:07
very you know we she was always still
01:06:09
very affectionate she'd always give me a
01:06:11
hugle she didn't mind me didn't mind me
01:06:14
hugging her MH and and we hadn't seen
01:06:16
each other for a while while she this is
01:06:19
when she was back we hadn't seen each
01:06:20
other for a while so I was just so happy
01:06:23
to see her you know I knew I wanted to
01:06:25
get my hugs in cuz I probably wouldn't
01:06:27
she was actually going to come back for
01:06:28
the Rugby World Cup that year which was
01:06:30
that was the one that was here wasn't it
01:06:32
yes yeah yeah I think August September
01:06:34
that year yeah she was going to come
01:06:35
back in September to be here for that so
01:06:38
we we weren't when I said goodbye to her
01:06:40
it that was in M April May it wasn't
01:06:43
going to be for that long she was going
01:06:45
to fly back yeah um how's this changed
01:06:48
you as a
01:06:49
person uh it's it it's changed me a lot
01:06:54
of ways like like
01:06:58
um like let me it's it's changed me the
01:07:02
way I deal with other people like I I I
01:07:05
really you know if someone's a bit sad
01:07:07
or feeling down I kind of want to try
01:07:09
and help them or or or or bring them up
01:07:13
or you know I think I'm a lot less just
01:07:16
focused on me and my family really more
01:07:18
empathetic much more empathetic yeah
01:07:20
yeah um I I'm a lot more resilient now
01:07:24
in some ways
01:07:26
but but in other ways I'm not
01:07:29
because because I can be quite easily
01:07:32
hurt because I'm still quite this still
01:07:33
a lot of pain in me from from what
01:07:37
what's happened to
01:07:38
Emily but I think
01:07:43
um it's kind of hard
01:07:45
because I'd rather Emily was here but
01:07:48
it's made me a better person he's made
01:07:51
me a much better person than I think I
01:07:53
was before in that I
01:07:56
I I care about other people a lot more
01:07:59
I'm not so kind of focused inwardly on
01:08:01
on
01:08:02
myself um I feel like I can I've been
01:08:06
through something that a lot of people
01:08:07
haven't been through
01:08:09
so I I can I can I think I've got
01:08:12
something I've got something to offer
01:08:14
other people if they're if they're
01:08:16
feeling down um and I just think also I
01:08:21
never would have got involved with
01:08:22
domestic violence had this happen I
01:08:24
didn't even know what domestic violence
01:08:25
was I never would have got involved with
01:08:28
that so
01:08:30
um it's kind of I think it's improved me
01:08:34
but I'd rather be my old self with a
01:08:37
family 100% um yeah knowing uh what
01:08:40
you've since learned about domestic
01:08:42
violence um is there anything you could
01:08:43
have done differently or you know what
01:08:46
are some like common warning signs and
01:08:48
things like that yeah I well I think it
01:08:51
was kind of hard to spot the signs of
01:08:53
them because we weren't there but I
01:08:54
think I I would have
01:08:56
I I I didn't think a boyfriend was ever
01:08:59
going to be a threat I thought if
01:09:00
something happened to Emily it would
01:09:01
have been some random person in the
01:09:03
street or something and I was worried
01:09:04
about that happening I I didn't for a
01:09:06
minute think that the most dangerous
01:09:08
people are the people who who know you
01:09:11
or who claim to love you so I you know I
01:09:14
I would have educated her better around
01:09:16
that
01:09:18
um and also I would have encouraged her
01:09:21
to speak out about it you know a lot
01:09:23
more than than she did she tried to sort
01:09:26
it out herself but I I kind of think in
01:09:30
general this uh violence towards women
01:09:34
whether it's sexual violence physical
01:09:36
violence or emotional violence it exists
01:09:38
it's a thing that's out there it's it's
01:09:41
very common um and we've got to St I
01:09:45
think in general we just got to stop
01:09:47
pretending it doesn't exist and and just
01:09:50
talk about it
01:09:52
really yeah are there any like in
01:09:54
hindsight any red flags that um you know
01:09:57
friends or family could could look out
01:09:59
for in a situation like this yeah yeah
01:10:01
yeah I mean if you look at just if you
01:10:02
look at just with Turner himself he was
01:10:04
um he was very controlling so he would
01:10:07
hack her Facebook page he would check
01:10:09
her phone see who she was texting he
01:10:12
would he would go through her phone and
01:10:14
text her mail friends and say pretending
01:10:15
to be Emily say I don't want to see you
01:10:17
anymore I can't be your friend anymore
01:10:20
he would turn up where she was he would
01:10:22
he would keep tabs in her all the time
01:10:23
he want to know where she was going so
01:10:25
he was very controlling which is a
01:10:27
classic um a classic sign uh he was he
01:10:32
was he
01:10:33
was emotionally abusive he would he
01:10:37
would tell her she look like a [ __ ] he
01:10:39
would put her down at any opportunity he
01:10:41
would ignore her he
01:10:43
would there's a clip on that on that
01:10:46
documentary where she's she's seeing him
01:10:48
for the first time since coming back
01:10:49
from New Zealand she walks into a bar if
01:10:51
you remember it and he slammed her head
01:10:53
on that that that it was the clip of
01:10:55
before that he he just ignores her he
01:10:56
turns his back on her so he was this all
01:10:59
this kind
01:11:00
of all this unpleasant
01:11:03
behavior um and then there's the
01:11:05
physical violence where he he slammed
01:11:07
his head on her on the table he used to
01:11:09
hold her up by her neck as well which is
01:11:12
an incredibly if you're stronger than
01:11:14
someone you know it's an incredibly
01:11:16
empowering thing to
01:11:17
do and also there's just the you know
01:11:20
the biggest red flag was him telling
01:11:21
people he was going to kill her you know
01:11:23
you can't get more of a red flag about
01:11:24
that and and
01:11:26
um he didn't just say I'm going to kill
01:11:28
her he he talked about strangling her
01:11:31
drowning her or setting fire to her you
01:11:32
know this is this is Extreme Behavior
01:11:35
this isn't just like I'm so angry I
01:11:38
could kill you this is like I'm going to
01:11:40
set fire to you this is it's not normal
01:11:42
talk it's and and
01:11:45
so yeah that that there are red flags I
01:11:49
I I think the main ones are the you know
01:11:51
there's the controlling there's the
01:11:53
abusive Behavior which doesn't start out
01:11:54
to be physical it always starts out to
01:11:56
be mental there's the isolation you know
01:11:59
separating people from their friends
01:12:00
they've got no support network there's
01:12:03
lots of warning signs and and you know
01:12:05
one of my key messages is if you see
01:12:07
these things happening you've got to act
01:12:09
on them because if you don't it will
01:12:11
escalate and escalate and escalate until
01:12:13
it could end up like like
01:12:15
Emily but you had you had no way of
01:12:17
knowing neither did your parents I guess
01:12:20
there were no visible signs so unless
01:12:21
Emily was prepared to um you know be
01:12:24
forward with um the information about
01:12:26
what was going on there's no way anyone
01:12:27
could have intervened right no it's I
01:12:29
think his friends or her friends
01:12:32
probably I mean they were only young but
01:12:34
but no it's it's really hard to spot as
01:12:36
well like youve you've really got to be
01:12:38
kind of looking at the person
01:12:41
because if you're in an abusive
01:12:43
relationship if if you're the woman and
01:12:45
you're with an abusive man he's kind of
01:12:47
put he'll be putting you down and
01:12:48
putting you down and putting you down
01:12:50
but then he'll be blame he'll be blaming
01:12:51
you for this as well so it' be like you
01:12:53
made me angry you you made do that you
01:12:56
know if you hadn't done that I wouldn't
01:12:58
have done that um and so you start
01:13:00
thinking it's your fault and it's very
01:13:02
hard to actually ask for help when you
01:13:04
think it's your fault all the time or
01:13:06
you think anything you do is going to
01:13:07
anger them but that's your fault so it's
01:13:11
you know it's an incredibly lonely and
01:13:14
isolated place to be in and and and and
01:13:16
people say you know the thing I get sick
01:13:18
of is people say why didn't she just
01:13:21
leave it well you can't like you leave
01:13:25
what you you think you've been so so
01:13:28
kind of degraded and so um verbally
01:13:31
abused and and you're feeling so low you
01:13:35
you can't just leave it's not as simple
01:13:36
as that and it doesn't start with you
01:13:39
people say if a man hit me I would just
01:13:40
leave them but the the physical violence
01:13:43
comes a long way down the line you know
01:13:45
the the the person or the woman's been
01:13:48
being completely kind of broken
01:13:51
emotionally yeah manipulated manipul um
01:13:54
yeah people go why didn't you just leave
01:13:56
him well you know firstly where are you
01:13:58
going to go you've got no money you've
01:14:00
got no car
01:14:01
you you're you're emotionally broken you
01:14:04
know it's it's it's hard yeah and you
01:14:07
can see from that note that we talked
01:14:09
about earlier that Emily wrote him like
01:14:10
she like she she genuinely thought you
01:14:13
know she she cared for him um and it was
01:14:16
reci reciprocated in some strange way
01:14:19
well this is the other thing you know
01:14:20
you know Turner was he was the life and
01:14:22
the soul of the party he was he was
01:14:24
Charming
01:14:26
one part of his characteristic he was a
01:14:28
narcissist but he was Charming he was he
01:14:30
was funny people like to hang around
01:14:32
with him you know he was he was kind
01:14:35
of you you could see what the attraction
01:14:37
was originally she was he was kind of in
01:14:39
with the In Crowd and Emily's
01:14:41
girlfriends were friends with his
01:14:43
friends and and you can see you know
01:14:45
what the attraction was originally but
01:14:48
uh he was he also had this really nasty
01:14:49
side to him but but a lot of people
01:14:51
couldn't believe that this was the
01:14:53
person who who killed it because they
01:14:56
just saw that kind of charming caring
01:14:58
side of
01:14:59
him I'm I'm so pleased he's been um such
01:15:03
a small part of the podcast today more
01:15:05
more than what he deserves to be fair
01:15:07
but um yeah I wanted this um chat today
01:15:09
to uh yeah be yeah more about Emily
01:15:12
really because um yeah I think I think I
01:15:15
think that's the thing like um like
01:15:17
we're all going to die at some point and
01:15:19
no one wants to be forgotten um so and
01:15:21
you've done such a tremendous job like
01:15:23
you know keeping her memory alive yeah
01:15:25
thank really cool um it's not easy to
01:15:28
keep it but man I can't imagine I can't
01:15:31
I think you I don't know if this was on
01:15:32
the podcast or maybe just before we get
01:15:34
we got into the podcast but you you you
01:15:36
said you were taking a step back from
01:15:38
the sort of campaigning and oh I yeah I
01:15:42
I did I just because it's too hard not
01:15:44
from the campaigning I just like being
01:15:48
like a spokesperson yeah I I I I I still
01:15:51
do it and I still do things like this
01:15:52
and I still try and get it out there but
01:15:56
when you get involved with something and
01:15:57
you start have to get funding for it and
01:15:59
you know you you start having to do
01:16:01
certain things and you have certain kpis
01:16:03
and that just wasn't what I wanted to do
01:16:06
I just wanted to do my own thing and
01:16:08
speak about it from my own personal
01:16:10
experience and if I can't qu I can't
01:16:13
quantify whether that's helped someone I
01:16:16
I hope it has oh 100% but I I have no
01:16:19
kind of figures to say yeah I saved five
01:16:21
lives here when you start get getting
01:16:23
funding for things people start that
01:16:25
that so I just I I I step back from that
01:16:29
that part of it I just do my own thing
01:16:30
now so I can talk to people yeah and if
01:16:33
it helps it helps if it doesn't help it
01:16:34
doesn't help but I've got I'm not
01:16:35
worrying about losing funding because I
01:16:37
didn't say the right
01:16:39
thing uh what would it what would um
01:16:41
Emily think of the work you've done in
01:16:43
this uh in this space would she be just
01:16:45
so proud she'd be quite embarrassed that
01:16:47
I'm still bangging on about no she
01:16:50
wouldn't would she I think she would in
01:16:51
a way yeah yeah she would she would be
01:16:54
she' I I can imagine her saying to me
01:16:57
you know just it's time to stop now
01:17:00
just but but also she would be I she
01:17:03
what she would be what she would be
01:17:05
really proud of is that is if if someone
01:17:10
else benefited from it so if someone out
01:17:12
if someone out there's listening to this
01:17:14
podcast or or has watched the
01:17:16
documentary or listen to something I've
01:17:19
had to say somewhere and and that has
01:17:21
helped them in a sit in a violent
01:17:24
situation of their own she would be
01:17:26
really happy or or it stops them getting
01:17:28
into a violent situation she would be
01:17:30
really happy with that she she was she
01:17:32
had this
01:17:33
incredibly caring uh you know if you
01:17:36
were at a party standing on your own
01:17:39
because you didn't know anyone em would
01:17:41
be the person who went over and and kind
01:17:43
of introduce you to people and made sure
01:17:44
you had someone to talk to and so she
01:17:46
she would be really happy with that but
01:17:48
I think she'd probably be she'd want me
01:17:51
to stop telling the embarrassing stories
01:17:52
about
01:17:53
her picking up the tarmac and it'd be
01:17:56
like that happened a long time ago yeah
01:17:59
yeah yeah yeah oh are you what about you
01:18:01
you proud of
01:18:03
yourself
01:18:05
uh I don't know if I'm I'm kind
01:18:09
of yeah I don't know I don't know
01:18:11
proud's the right word I I I still
01:18:15
feel like like part of me hasn't you
01:18:18
know honestly hasn't unresolved I wish I
01:18:20
could have done more for Emily and I
01:18:22
wish I could have saved her and I wish I
01:18:25
somehow had spotted the signs and I wish
01:18:28
I I wish there was something I could
01:18:29
have done and I feel really as a father
01:18:32
I feel really
01:18:34
um not guilty but I guess I feel a sense
01:18:38
of failure that I didn't I couldn't save
01:18:41
her because you know that's what you
01:18:43
want to do you just you just want to
01:18:44
protect your
01:18:45
kids and so I think part of me is um is
01:18:48
maybe trying to atone for that and and
01:18:52
so I don't know if I I don't know if I
01:18:55
quite fa does that make sense yeah it
01:18:57
makes complete sense but how yeah how do
01:18:58
you let go of that you you know it's
01:19:00
completely irrational and it's
01:19:02
completely not your fault yeah I know I
01:19:04
know I I I don't blame myself but it's
01:19:06
not my fault but I I just you understand
01:19:10
it's your role as a a protector I guess
01:19:13
yeah I wish I could have done I wish I
01:19:14
could have done something and and you
01:19:16
know I didn't know enough about it I
01:19:19
didn't know enough about domestic
01:19:21
violence I mean this is another reason
01:19:22
why you know someone said to me this is
01:19:24
domestic violence and I'm like what the
01:19:25
[ __ ] is that I didn't even know what it
01:19:27
was like what do you mean men kill their
01:19:28
Partners I had no idea even though you
01:19:31
see it know you see the the Lesser signs
01:19:33
all over the place but I had no idea so
01:19:37
and
01:19:38
so yeah yeah yeah so so honestly you
01:19:41
know part of me is trying to atone for
01:19:42
that like like if I saw
01:19:44
Emily I one of the things I would say is
01:19:46
I'm so sorry I couldn't I couldn't do
01:19:49
anything it just it really like like
01:19:52
when I saw her
01:19:55
on the bed dead for the first time you
01:19:57
know were lots of things went through my
01:19:58
head but I I just thought I can't do
01:20:00
anything you know when she got in
01:20:02
trouble at school I go and see the head
01:20:03
Master sort it out and smooth it over or
01:20:06
damage contr you yeah but I just I just
01:20:09
thought I can't do anything I'm just I'm
01:20:11
completely useless here I can't there's
01:20:13
nothing I can do to to bring her back
01:20:15
and it just really it really it really
01:20:19
had an effect an impact on me so I'm you
01:20:23
know in all honesty I'm partly trying to
01:20:25
atone for that even though it's probably
01:20:27
quite irrational
01:20:29
yeah
01:20:31
um mark this has been great thank you so
01:20:34
much for sharing he in a in a in a
01:20:36
perfect world we would never even be
01:20:38
having this podcast that would be the
01:20:40
dream scenario but the next best thing
01:20:42
is um you being here and keeping Emily's
01:20:44
uh memory alive and um yeah just shining
01:20:47
it shining a light on um domestic
01:20:49
violence I really I really appreciate
01:20:51
you having me on here it a real it was a
01:20:53
real honor and a privilege thank you you
01:20:54
oh no the the honor is all mine um
01:20:57
you're you're a great New Zealander and
01:20:59
um yeah thank you so much for all the
01:21:00
work you've done and I my sincere
01:21:02
apologies for everything you've been
01:21:03
through mate it's not your fault thank
01:21:06
you thank you yeah and thank you for
01:21:07
having me on it's it it's good to it's
01:21:10
nice to talk about Emily and you know
01:21:12
hopefully someone's listening to this
01:21:13
somewhere and thinking my daughter's in
01:21:16
a bit of a bad relationship or my
01:21:18
boyfriend's being a bit of an assel and
01:21:20
they can they can get some
01:21:23
help for