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[Music]
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Mike Chan welcome to my podcast thank
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you Dom good to be here mate the honor
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is absolutely all mine I'm um a massive
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massive fan of yours and your work as a
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as a matter of fact I went into my uh
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storage locker um yesterday in
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anticipation for this and I found
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something and I wasn't sure if I still
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had this but it's one of these things
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I've been hanging on to give me a look
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check this out uh that was the
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270 oh 93 anniversary tour no I wasn't
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on that tour no nigal great Ser is down
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there he was the guy that took over for
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me in 77 yeah how come how come you went
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on the reunion tour I had a phobic
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disorder which in the end I succumbed to
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so I had about 4 and 3/4 years in the
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band I used to deal with this problem by
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taking tranquilizers because I told my
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father I had stage right he's a
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doctor but I didn't have stage five at
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all I loved being on the stage Fact one
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place and I I have talked to other
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musicians about this when I opened out
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or opened up or spoke out is that the
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stages where you are safe but anyway I
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had about 3 years of tranquilizers and
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in the end I decided that I'd lo I was
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losing that battle so I left the band
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yeah well we we can get into that in um
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much more detail as much detail as you
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want actually later on but because um
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you and your book has sharli turn um you
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write about it and it's um got I I was
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reing reading your book last night and I
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like tears in my face it's hero just
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this um the hell that you lived in uh
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with this un unknown undiagnosed
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disorder for many years it was it was
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awful but I um I bring this poster out
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because I would have thought by
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1993 you would have had more of a grasp
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on it more of a more of a handle on it I
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did but by then the spin had been and
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gone so they broke up in '
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84 and Nigel you know Nigel is the
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official bass player for spines and I'm
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the guy that plays if Nigel can't be
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found uh but you know I love my time
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with that band and and so some people
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say You must regret leaving but I felt I
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had no choice so but it's still and as
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nol one said spin isn't something you
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can just leave and walk away from you
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it's always in you fact recently we we
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all met up at nilin studio and did some
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playing together of the old songs it was
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wonderful how good okay oh there is um
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so much in the rich tapestry of your
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life to talk about um I did a lot of
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reading and anticipation of this coming
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in and when when you're a man like
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yourself there's um a lot of Articles
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you've done and a lot of things you've
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said going back many many years so some
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of these um may have been correct at the
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time and they're incorrect now but let's
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run through them so you're a you're a 2m
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word guy you often wake up at 2: a.m.
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and do Wordle how ironic you are an
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investigative and I did it last night at
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12:30 a.m. and I did it in
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4: I in fact I waited till midnight I
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wonder how it works around the world but
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yeah midnight is a bang
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worldle W's great yeah surely a doctor
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would say to you like if you got you
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know if you wake up in the middle of the
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night it's not the best thing for you to
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have that bright screen in your face too
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bad um you're a lover of cream and jam
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Donuts but you only allow yourself to
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have like one every 5 years yeah well
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we live in Mount Eden Road now and
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there's a I call it kind of like a
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workman's canteen you know those
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cabinets all like yeah yeah yeah like an
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old they have these cream and cranberry
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Jam filled
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pancakes well so forget the donut now
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it's pancake time for me love them I
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reckon when you you have one more than
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one pancake every 5 years though oh sh
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you no I would have a pancake once or
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twice a week oh good on you um huge fan
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of Don mcglashan love Don mcgan I'm a
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lyric man so you know I've always P paid
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a lot of attention to lyrics and Don is
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the master of telling us about life in
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New Zealand I think they are quite
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focused on New Zealand not just humanity
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and human relationships and boy girls or
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familial
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stories it makes me really feel at home
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listening to them to him no matter how
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tragic his LCS get like no telling when
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was this song about a guy on a boat out
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in the ocean and something must have
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happened because I think the Mast is
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broken and he just sits there dreaming
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that the footprints he might see on the
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beach all those miles away has and he's
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going to get back but we suspect he
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never
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does he's do you have like a favorite
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era of mlan like is it from LA M Birds
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all they all have their wonderful Peak
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moments Andy is truly
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incredible Andy story about his
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brother yeah no muttonbird solo albums
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you know they're all wonderful yeah
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Andy's probably one of my favorite songs
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of all time and Inc what else uh Na n is
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great it's a beautiful song even
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tomorrow night some of the more
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light-hearted front lawn songs beautiful
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well that's something that's some common
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ground we've got we're both uh excellent
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um another you always have a
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tranquilizer in your pocket for an
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emergency is this still on flight only
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flying right it's the one place that you
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can't suddenly decide not to be in or on
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cuz you'd have to jump out of the plane
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window but on a boat you can say to
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yourself oh I can just dive off and swim
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back on a train I can just pull a cord
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in a car I can just stop walking I can
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just stop but the entrapment of an
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airplane a lot of people like when I
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came out and uh with that uh series on
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TV of I guess you'd call them
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advertisements or something like minees
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like
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mine and I talked about um
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agobia and quite a few not when I say
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quite a few maybe about five or six
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well-known musicians got hold of me
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quietly we went up and and they talked
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about how they have the same problem but
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the stage is the safe
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place uh and that airplane's terrify
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them yeah the I was going to say the
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funny thing about that but it's not
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really funny at all but the like for for
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um most new zealanders I think or most
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people in general like being on a stage
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in front of people would be the most
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terrifying thing imaginable but I know
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it's
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weird okay we yeah we will get into that
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um uh later on in the chat because I
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feel like you don't necessarily get the
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credit not that you were ever about the
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credit but you know in terms of um
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high-profile people that spoke early
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about mental health you know you've got
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the Mike KS and the sjn Kuan feel like
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you don't necessarily get the you know
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the credit or the recognition you
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deserve for speaking so openly about it
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at a time when it wasn't spoken about
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openly I don't mind yeah the thing is
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I'm not embarrassed by it no and it's
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something it was all my own fault but I
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we I have in the 80s just by being aware
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of it and people asking questions about
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it it's pretty much in our
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genes my sister had phobic disorder and
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I won't go into all the others but I'm
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not the only one in the Chun family to
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have had a phobic disorder yeah didn't
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you have a a grandfather like Granddad
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bunny Uncle bunny Uncle
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Jack when I put came out with that book
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called uh [ __ ] what's it called uh
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Tales of M Madness and
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mirth it didn't sound any anything but I
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did do it because I my editor an
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Clifford said give a voice to agobia
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because in the spadin um story of
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spreadin which was my first book I don't
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call it anything I don't even talk about
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having a phobic disorder as to why I
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left the
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band but um yeah and I was sort of
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wavered there from the answer to
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whatever we were talking about where was
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I
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Dum um oh yeah what was the question
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um uh oh you're not getting the same
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sort of level of recognition as say um
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Mike King and John Ken yeah not that it
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was ever about that and then the thing
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is I'm never going to run away from it
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so if anyone wants to talk about it I
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will and people with it if they come
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across somebody like me who's done
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is can be seen to be talking about it
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they will get a hold of me you know so
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there probably have been about 20 30
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people who have met with me to talk
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about their problem and how you how I
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dealt with
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it that's cool uh yeah that must be very
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satisfying that that through your own
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harrowing experiences you can make life
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the journey a bit easier for some others
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it can be incredibly emotionally
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overwhelming I could tell you about that
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the
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bank you want to hear about the bank
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bank story I love the bank story I'm an
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a que to go to the teller at the bank
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remember tellers mhm and I got to her
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and she looked at me and said I want to
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thank you for going on television with
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the like M's like mine and I said are
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you
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okay and she said no I'm not well the
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queue Behind Me grew as we both cried
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and started talking in the bank
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I don't know what the bank manager
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thought but she I feel had spoken for
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the first time I am like you there's
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something wrong and now I've said it or
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shown it to be real and uh take it from
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there and I I felt really good about it
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didn't didn't cost me a cent all I had
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to do was just ask if she's
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okay oh that's wonderful isn't that
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powerful it's like a vulnerability
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exchange yeah exactly
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um okay a couple of light-hearted ones
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um you you met Michael Jackson yeah
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Mikey J I met him in 77 in a um a radio
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station Syndicate syndicated you know
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blah blah blah called The Magic Mountain
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I think it was AR of
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timin uh Linda Steiner the Crystalis
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record um PR minder that was trading
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with
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us Mikey and Jermaine were coming along
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the corridor and she stopped and said oh
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Michael Jermaine got to meet the boys
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from New Zealand so I shook his hand
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that's like shaking hand with
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water very strange I looked him in the
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eye he would have been 17 so he was
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about one or two years away from in fact
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he was two years away from don't stop
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till he get
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enough I should have asked him if I
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could join his
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band there was already
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enough um are you you won a $2 bit with
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Jinder did she ever pay up well she
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believes
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that part of that bet was I would give
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her this is a another criteria I would
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give her a bottle of lindow for
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something so she's waiting for the
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bottle of lindow before she's going to
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go off and give me the
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$2 so I it's all just fall to risk but
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it was a lot of fun at the time these
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are B Linda and $2 it's a very lowlevel
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bet what was the bet that you you
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thought she would be PR Minister before
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40 was yeah well she was a guest at our
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um award show the play at strange award
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show at the BackBeat bar and kroot and
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she she came along and she spoke
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presented the peace song award because
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we have a it's fact it's a whole
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competition now the peace song and she
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spoke and then I said before she took
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the
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stage okay we have a a new member of
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parliament today and I'm going to ask
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her to present this award her name is
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Jinder
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adun and she will be prime minister
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before she's 40 cuz I knew she was 38
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and she came up to me she
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said that's a big ass mic kind of trying
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to whisper it but it was ringing out
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through the PA system I said okay okay
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everybody please welcome Jinder ardun
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the new MP for labor and I betat you $2
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looking her in the eye that you will be
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the prime Minister before year 40 when I
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was
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announced when win he made his
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famous um decision I'm going with labor
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I sent her a text I saying you owe me
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$2 it was a lot of fun she was I had a
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lot of time for just we used to meet
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every Christmas at daa's wine bar and
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jvo Road and she was fantastic we talk
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about all sorts of things Mormon church
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all sorts of things you still in touch
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now no no it all fell off the sort of
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The Happening rails let's call them when
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she became prime minister and had to
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suffer the vibe in this country even
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people that I knew and believed
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in decided that she was this and she was
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that and she was this now they're
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actually even louder than she were with
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her it's a strange we're not going to
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talk politics no no it gets very very
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nasty with politics doesn't it I think
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the whole covid thing had a huge point
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to play yeah you could be right yeah um
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gez there's a couple more of these
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little sort of like fun trivial bits
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here let's go okay
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um uh there was a time where the Oakland
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Mir Band rock concerts because of you
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and your band yeah s some band played at
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the Oakland Town Hall in
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1979 and a lot of people said what are
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you doing booking the town hall you know
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it's hard enough to get a full house at
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the wind Castle Pub but I don't know we
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just we had done a lot of lunchtime
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concerts at
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schools and so at a lunchtime concert
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you get on stage everyone's got their
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sandwiches and they're rocking away but
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you only hear about six songs and
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they've all got to go back to class poor
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bastards and so the tickets just
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rocketed out of the box office because
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they wanted to see a whole show
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and there were 1,800 people in that room
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in a
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Flash and they just wouldn't stay in
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their seats it was such a joy to behold
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up there on that stage because I keep to
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me the town hall is all about the
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Beatles of 64 Rolling Stone 65 The Who
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66 I think 67 all these famous Feet
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Shoes had been on that stage and so I
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would stand on every imprint yeah it's a
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magical environment but yeah know uh
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Sally somebody at the herald took it on
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to really spread the word how the uh the
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council wasn't going to allow anyone to
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stand
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up what a laugh it's hilarious you look
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back now it's quite it's adorable really
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isn't it ad a great word for it it's
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adorable um split 's first ever
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recording session in early 1973 was to
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record a jingle for Suzuki motorbikes
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let Suzuki blow your mind let Suzuki
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blow your
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mind it's on it's on New Zealand on
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screen I don't tell anyone actually I'm
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probably telling everyone now and you
00:16:43
can listen to it and look at it it's
00:16:46
full of guys running motorcycles you
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know let Suzuki blowing and Tim sings it
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it's funny you got to see it actually uh
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but the best one was
00:16:59
and we haven't had the
00:17:01
heart for Tim's sake really to to let it
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go out I don't think it's out it's a
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radio a
00:17:09
for um tiny tote
00:17:13
eyeliner a real Eyota new from X
00:17:18
Factor Eyes Are Made For Love try
00:17:23
something that is
00:17:25
new that song that that melody in ended
00:17:29
up I think in the song Maybe on the
00:17:30
first spin album yeah so we did an
00:17:34
eyeliner ad thank you very
00:17:36
much Dom's Fallen to the floor I might
00:17:39
have to pick him
00:17:41
up it's just amazing I suppose it's just
00:17:44
you know you just young kids at this
00:17:45
time and you didn't even know where unck
00:17:46
Buck coming from so it's desperation we
00:17:49
got $100 each we were just we were high
00:17:52
we were in a studio steings on our
00:17:54
mascot Studios yeah we just really
00:17:57
wanted to make an album and go to
00:17:59
England that was all we wanted to do and
00:18:02
you're um you're a happy and frequent
00:18:04
crier uh that's a quote I am a crier
00:18:06
yeah I'm a big
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CER in fact
00:18:10
one movie recently I almost felt I have
00:18:14
to leave the theater because of
00:18:16
the
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explosive outpouring of grief what was
00:18:22
it oh it was um the one about you know
00:18:26
thing me Bob the classical conductor who
00:18:28
wrote the music to Westside Story
00:18:31
Westside Story I don't know oh yes you
00:18:33
do and so do I but I can't remember it
00:18:35
you know ber bear h no it's not ber bear
00:18:39
it's l Lenard Bernstein okay have you
00:18:42
seen the movie about Lenard Bernstein
00:18:43
it's called oh it's a one weird anyway
00:18:46
it it just probably because of the life
00:18:49
I've Liv it just completely T
00:18:53
me it's a bit like Tim Finn was talking
00:18:56
about the movie 20 steps from the front
00:18:59
of the stage I think it's called you
00:19:00
know about that one no it's
00:19:03
features the lives of and and
00:19:06
conversations with backing singers the
00:19:09
ones who were 20 ft back oh okay he was
00:19:12
talking about he just Bal and Bal and
00:19:14
baled were you have you always been
00:19:16
emotional or have you found as you got
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older
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uh no I think I always have been y I'm
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trying to remember if my father my
00:19:24
father is a big cry but usually about
00:19:26
cricket
00:19:28
yeah true happy tears about Cricket or
00:19:31
all you had to do was turn look at him
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and say Don Bradman he
00:19:35
go don 298 against um Australia in
00:19:43
1939 that's amazing oh one thing I
00:19:45
noticed in in your book you you refer to
00:19:47
your parents by their name you called
00:19:48
them um vaugh and Jerry is is that what
00:19:51
you you called them gr how come you call
00:19:53
them volterian not Mom and Dad I don't
00:19:57
know yeah
00:20:01
unusual it just seemed normal I called
00:20:03
Von Vonnie Vonnie and Jerry maybe I
00:20:06
wanted a sort of know a sound that was
00:20:09
similar for the two of them rather than
00:20:11
Mom and
00:20:12
Dad I don't I don't know the answer to
00:20:15
that but you so a Vonnie and Jerry did
00:20:17
you your kids call you like Dad or I'm m
00:20:21
m yeah which which has spread around the
00:20:23
family from uh my Dar Bridget my wife
00:20:27
who calls me m m
00:20:29
yeah wow 's okay with me Em's just all
00:20:34
right with
00:20:35
me um I read that you this is a quote
00:20:38
from you you still are playing music and
00:20:40
you play piano alone guitar after
00:20:43
drinking and bass to Big crowds
00:20:45
basically is yeah so I only really want
00:20:48
to play the Bas guitar on a big stage
00:20:49
with the huge crowd for me it's what my
00:20:53
dream was when I
00:20:55
first thought of being a famous pop star
00:21:00
which was when I saw a h days night and
00:21:02
I was
00:21:04
12 and at the age of 12 you can have all
00:21:07
the dreams you want and I was uh in a
00:21:11
picture theater in Wellington on a class
00:21:13
trip we went down there to see the All
00:21:15
Blacks play
00:21:17
Australia in fact I was sitting once
00:21:19
with sir me and I said and he I said
00:21:23
first time I saw you play was a 1964
00:21:25
athetic Park against aadia he looked at
00:21:28
me with the sort of strange look and I
00:21:30
said and I'm sorry you lost
00:21:33
228 he leaned forward quite close to my
00:21:36
face and said you're being very generous
00:21:38
M we lost 20 to5 wow he knew and I I I
00:21:43
don't know M anyway uh yeah um can't
00:21:46
remember what that was about but it was
00:21:48
very exciting to talk about it what was
00:21:50
I saying well we um oh you were talking
00:21:53
about yeah still up playing music piano
00:21:55
alone guitar after drinking piano I mean
00:21:59
the family hear
00:22:00
it but I've never really there was one
00:22:03
song Titus on mental notes where I
00:22:06
played the piano with the
00:22:07
band but generally it's a perfect thing
00:22:10
to play alone what is it is it a
00:22:12
cathartic thing for you is it yeah yeah
00:22:15
I need to think about these things so I
00:22:17
said like I went into the school music
00:22:21
library at ockland University and looked
00:22:24
up Rak
00:22:25
manof and there was a two piano
00:22:29
score I thought ah I'll pick the bits
00:22:32
that I like and so I photocopied it and
00:22:34
ran out the door didn't pay for anything
00:22:36
and I I started playing bits of these
00:22:40
rack manof second piano canudo and seon
00:22:42
so that
00:22:43
Adventure is where the piano rests for
00:22:46
me to
00:22:51
[Music]
00:22:53
go uh the base is I just like that big
00:22:56
and loud and and for me the love I had
00:22:59
for the members of
00:23:00
spin is
00:23:03
all professed really in a way by my
00:23:07
playing of the Bas and I was also lucky
00:23:10
enough to be in
00:23:12
a in a band like that at a time when you
00:23:15
wrote your own part so no one ever came
00:23:18
up to me and said ah Stranger Than
00:23:20
Fiction I've got a good idea for what
00:23:21
you can play on the base I I would just
00:23:24
stick my hand over your mouth and say I
00:23:26
don't want to be told anything what to
00:23:28
play all of us were the same so at least
00:23:31
I had I felt I had a really strong
00:23:32
creative input in terms of what notes
00:23:35
and what motifs Etc I played on the Bas
00:23:37
and the acoustic guitar I love it but
00:23:39
I'm not very good at it but my son
00:23:41
Barney is fantastic on it so here and I
00:23:44
will sit down and play waterl Sunset The
00:23:47
Kinks song and if we have three or four
00:23:49
beers at the same time we'll move on to
00:23:52
other songs as well it's great it's a
00:23:54
great accompanyment instrument yeah
00:23:56
great sort of bonding thing yeah yeah
00:23:59
yeah it's funny funny you um I just
00:24:00
picked up on something you said before
00:24:01
about um you know everyone in Split Ends
00:24:04
just um sort of creating their own part
00:24:06
for each song um that seems to go all
00:24:08
the way back in your book you talk about
00:24:10
you know some of the early rehearsals
00:24:12
maybe even before it was called split
00:24:13
ends at your parents house and your dad
00:24:15
would sit at the top of the stairs and
00:24:17
watch sort of an amazement and uh wonder
00:24:19
how you could do this without
00:24:21
communicating with
00:24:23
words I know yeah uh he was very taken
00:24:27
with Phil judge
00:24:29
lyrics uh so when mental an came out he
00:24:32
wanted to copy straight away so he could
00:24:34
just have those lyrics in his possession
00:24:37
especially the song time for a change
00:24:38
you know you B so you were a blind man
00:24:40
he was crying he just how old was he
00:24:41
when he wrote that 18 or 19 [ __ ] that's
00:24:45
phenomenal I know like do you you look
00:24:47
back now as a man in your 70s and think
00:24:49
how did a teenage boy write that exactly
00:24:51
well at the time you want the story I'd
00:24:54
love it so we played at Levi Saloon the
00:24:57
rock and roll nightclub down the road
00:24:59
but this was a folk in Blues night so
00:25:02
somehow or other my brother Jeffrey got
00:25:04
us a gig and so we all turn up we've
00:25:08
learned um three songs and we hop up on
00:25:10
stage and play them we hop off the stage
00:25:14
and go back to the seats and Barry
00:25:16
Coburn God bless him who was running the
00:25:18
show later became our man well actually
00:25:21
and he said you only played three
00:25:24
songs oh we only know three songs he
00:25:27
said well play them again again so up we
00:25:30
go and play them again we just felt like
00:25:32
King Kong and we kept going back to
00:25:35
Levis to play in one show
00:25:38
Phil looked at us and said can you guys
00:25:41
leave the stage miles and I are going to
00:25:43
do a song that we've done we've written
00:25:46
and he sits there with his acusa guitar
00:25:48
playing all these strange Mo strange
00:25:51
formations miles Golding our violin
00:25:53
player had obviously written this long
00:25:56
beautiful outro to the thing
00:26:00
and it really really stunned the room MH
00:26:04
you act as though you were blind man
00:26:06
who's crying crying about all the
00:26:08
virgins that are dying it was a magical
00:26:11
moment luckily he didn't mind having the
00:26:15
band join him the next time around which
00:26:18
we did I mean strange uh time for change
00:26:22
would would be featured in every spin in
00:26:25
show in the last 40 50 years
00:26:28
yeah yeah it's really still the test of
00:26:30
time you know it's a so I wonder that as
00:26:33
someone that's doesn't have a musical
00:26:34
bone in his body I'm guessing there's a
00:26:36
lot of a lot of guys in their 70s that
00:26:38
wrote songs when they were in their
00:26:39
teens early 20s and they look back now
00:26:41
and sort of you know their toes probably
00:26:45
curl a bit of some of the lyrics they
00:26:46
wrote back then but that's a very mature
00:26:48
song I think Jazz was a
00:26:51
greaty yeah all right okay so let's go
00:26:54
let's go the way back so you're at
00:26:55
Sacred Heart Sacred Heart College um and
00:26:58
you you're you're not a music guy you're
00:26:59
a sports guy you and Tim fer and uh well
00:27:03
see the thing is life at Sacred Heart
00:27:05
College wasn't
00:27:07
really a means to an end in terms of
00:27:10
being in a band so Tim was a great
00:27:14
singer he killed it on the stage but he
00:27:16
never wrote a song I never well I did
00:27:19
write a song which I have never played
00:27:21
to anybody my brother Jeffrey was
00:27:23
writing some songs but in essence we
00:27:26
just played covers so Sacred Heart
00:27:28
College
00:27:30
was a adventure on the stage I called it
00:27:33
the magical playground there we were on
00:27:36
the
00:27:37
stage and we dreamed of being Beatles I
00:27:40
think we tried writing songs and we
00:27:42
realized that being being a beetle one
00:27:45
you can just buy the boots and buy the
00:27:47
suit and you can just grow your hair and
00:27:50
you can learn how to play that
00:27:51
instrument that's okay but writing a
00:27:54
song
00:27:55
Jesus and
00:27:58
if in fact if Phil Jud had turned around
00:28:00
in napia and gone to
00:28:03
vuni I don't think there ever would have
00:28:05
been a SP he walked in and just all this
00:28:09
stuff started to
00:28:11
happen so you you met Tim
00:28:14
Finn I I think the story goes that um he
00:28:16
was leaving the principal's office and
00:28:18
you were walking in is that when you
00:28:20
they called him the guy that our parents
00:28:23
gave money to what do you call that a
00:28:27
school okay the school Moneybags man the
00:28:29
school dean maybe or no he had a name he
00:28:32
had a probably in the Maris Maris
00:28:35
Brotherhood he had he was specific
00:28:37
anyway so uh brother
00:28:41
Alexis I'd gone in with Mom and Dad Von
00:28:43
and jery and as I came out Tim was going
00:28:46
in might be the other way
00:28:48
around but really there's nothing to
00:28:50
that although I knew of him because his
00:28:52
cousin Simon Downey was a close friend
00:28:54
of mine then we both this is we're still
00:28:59
in form two and we
00:29:01
both he sat next to me actually in the
00:29:04
assemblage of 12year olds setting a
00:29:08
scholarship exam to get free
00:29:11
boarding he bloody got it Tim got the
00:29:15
scholarship and I got
00:29:16
nothing maybe I've always felt insecure
00:29:19
next to him because of that no just
00:29:22
tricking but you so we we sort of had a
00:29:25
link yeah eye to ey from the first time
00:29:28
we walked in the school
00:29:30
Gates it's yeah it's amazing so you were
00:29:33
like 12 at the time when you first met
00:29:35
and then when did just when did you
00:29:36
realize when did you become like friends
00:29:38
or when did you realize there was some
00:29:39
well at at boarding school everyone's a
00:29:41
kind of friend yeah I don't remember
00:29:44
ever having an altercation or an enemy
00:29:46
or
00:29:47
anything but we were very much well I it
00:29:51
must have been a moment probably in
00:29:52
fourth form that's year 11 fourth was it
00:29:58
10 hopeless at the years it's year 10 14
00:30:01
years old
00:30:02
um
00:30:05
where they had the the government had
00:30:08
said we need more culture we need more
00:30:11
mus culture at schools but we're not
00:30:13
going to have it in the
00:30:14
curriculum every school basically has to
00:30:17
have an hour class in the week where
00:30:19
they listen to songs and get to know and
00:30:21
appreciate music wow so brother Ivan who
00:30:23
we called Guff would bring in okay boys
00:30:27
sit down keep quite I've got the new Bob
00:30:30
Dylan album and he would play three
00:30:32
songs of the new Bob Dylan album well in
00:30:35
late 66 my brother Jeffrey had been
00:30:38
given the revolver album by The
00:30:40
Beatles And it completely dominated
00:30:44
their lives over the summer holidays of
00:30:47
6667 when we got back I would negotiate
00:30:49
with brother rvan that he could have a
00:30:52
few songs but we had to have some too
00:30:55
and then I wonder if this was fifth film
00:30:59
probably was I said to brother Ian
00:31:02
listen instead of just listening to
00:31:04
records do you mind of Tim and I I call
00:31:08
him Tim even though his name's Bri Yeah
00:31:11
Tim and I go on stage and sing the boys
00:31:14
some songs he looked at me like oh you
00:31:17
precocious little twit but he was good
00:31:19
he was great and up we hopped and we did
00:31:21
to love somebody and probably yesterday
00:31:25
and we love the BS well Tim sing like a
00:31:28
bird I hadn't really heard him he was
00:31:31
kind of hiding behind the piano but it
00:31:34
was very very clear to everyone in the
00:31:37
hall that this guy was a beautiful
00:31:40
singer and that's when I thought oh I'm
00:31:42
going to hold on to his coattails and
00:31:44
never let go that's when that happened
00:31:47
1967 is is that um just being incredibly
00:31:50
modest on your part no yeah oh you must
00:31:53
something I play I play the piano with
00:31:56
the Bas yeah and you so you got into Bas
00:31:58
because of
00:31:59
um from what I can GA you love The
00:32:01
Beetles and you saw McCartney play that
00:32:03
and you I want to do that but also it
00:32:05
looked easy it's only
00:32:07
one it's only one note at the time one
00:32:12
note at the time so you could
00:32:14
[Music]
00:32:16
go anyone can do
00:32:20
that not anyone can do it exceptionally
00:32:22
well or to the level that you had so so
00:32:24
so then what so you and you and ter why
00:32:27
don't you end up just forming a
00:32:28
partnership with just the two of you how
00:32:30
how do you end up in a in a in a massive
00:32:32
band together probably because I was
00:32:36
quite strongly emotionally linked to my
00:32:38
brother MH Jeffrey who hopped on the
00:32:42
drums and became a a great drummer he
00:32:46
was in the first sort of 15 months of
00:32:50
spreadin and I think n kumby will tell
00:32:53
you that the best drummer sp's ever had
00:32:55
was Jeff Chan he was on that beginning
00:32:58
of the ends album It's Jeffrey's drum
00:33:00
playing and it's really really good so
00:33:02
there was Jeffrey on drums I was on Bas
00:33:05
Tim was either singing and one song he
00:33:07
played Bas get your motor
00:33:11
running uh it was mental um it's quite
00:33:15
isn't it quite funny it's probably like
00:33:16
a little um fun fact that not many
00:33:18
people know but before long before there
00:33:19
were two fins and splittin there were
00:33:21
two CHS that's quite true yeah yeah oh
00:33:25
yeah so um so your brother Jeffrey you
00:33:28
this is going further down the track now
00:33:29
it was you that suggested that Neil
00:33:32
joins the band I did and at the time so
00:33:35
Neil was how old at the time like he was
00:33:36
like 5 years younger than you guys six
00:33:38
years younger than he was six I think
00:33:39
because yeah six and at the time Neil
00:33:42
was um Neil was in your brother's band
00:33:45
yeah I know I still feel bad about it
00:33:47
how how award was I think I'd reached
00:33:50
almost the end of the line dealing with
00:33:54
agobia I had flown from Chicago
00:33:59
down to Oakland to ask alist Rell of
00:34:01
space walls if he would leave and or
00:34:04
just become the guitar player for
00:34:06
spinnings because Phil Jud had left the
00:34:09
band I was still in the band you know
00:34:12
and uh aliser said no he didn't want to
00:34:15
be our guitar player said oh [ __ ] it
00:34:17
this you know what are we going to do
00:34:19
with
00:34:20
then I saw Neil play with Jeffrey in
00:34:23
after hours so were called flew back and
00:34:25
I said you should get Neil he can sing
00:34:27
he can write
00:34:29
songs as my sort of plead to be let go
00:34:33
and so after ringing Neil and Neil said
00:34:36
I I think I should ask my mom and dad
00:34:39
first I then said I'm I have to leave
00:34:43
yeah and I wasn't sad to leave because
00:34:46
the a phobic disorder there'll be people
00:34:49
listening to me right now going I know
00:34:53
all about a phobic disorder I've got
00:34:55
this or I've got that and it's the most
00:34:59
grinding impossible thing to to deal
00:35:01
with and and to kind of stay happy yeah
00:35:06
um so yeah I left the B at the same time
00:35:09
that Neil joined in fact he arrived the
00:35:11
day after
00:35:12
me we should have waved in the
00:35:15
air
00:35:18
best CH guitar and there was um there
00:35:21
was a massive turning point for split
00:35:23
end so you had this band that was
00:35:24
already successful and they just like
00:35:26
raised another gear when did you first
00:35:28
meet Neil how was how old was Neil when
00:35:30
you first metet like 10 11 8 he would
00:35:32
have been it would have been a free
00:35:34
Sunday at Sac heart college and Tim and
00:35:38
I we actually it was a a Christmas gift
00:35:42
for my uncle Uncle John to go to steing
00:35:45
Studios for an hour and to record and so
00:35:48
we went there and we spent much longer
00:35:50
than an hour but my loving daddy paid
00:35:53
all the rest of the money but the
00:35:54
recordings that we did were bloody good
00:35:57
in fact they still exist they've been
00:35:59
mastered and now you can't hear them but
00:36:02
Neil had been part of that process in
00:36:04
listening and
00:36:05
absorbing the because they original
00:36:08
songs the creative life of his big
00:36:10
brother at Sacred Heart and you could
00:36:14
see it in his eyes that he wanted to do
00:36:16
that
00:36:17
too yeah and so that that's when I'm I
00:36:20
first properly saw him singing as a
00:36:24
support act for a New Zealand tour of
00:36:26
spins h
00:36:29
yeah he's you know we talked about time
00:36:30
for a change before um and then you
00:36:32
listen to like Neil's lyrics for message
00:36:34
to my girl so he would have been really
00:36:36
young when he wrote that and that's a
00:36:37
great song it's incredible lyrics
00:36:39
there's no denying he's a pretty good
00:36:41
song wrer The the McCartney of
00:36:44
inz I I can't say anything about anybody
00:36:47
I can about Don yeah um how was it with
00:36:51
your brother was it Frosty for a while
00:36:53
when you when you when you suggested NE
00:36:58
well I England I well the thing is I
00:37:02
landed back in
00:37:04
Oakland you know
00:37:07
um and Jeff said oh we why don't you and
00:37:10
I
00:37:11
play here has a tape a cassette and
00:37:15
there's a song on it with some French
00:37:16
lyrics and check that out and you know
00:37:19
so we form a band and the song with the
00:37:21
French lyrics is Julia
00:37:25
Julia hear me now you I thought [ __ ]
00:37:28
where's that song been okay we're former
00:37:30
band so Citizen band came to be we stole
00:37:33
Bren Eckles and Greg Clark of Vox pop
00:37:37
who were playing at the globe
00:37:40
hotel but again oh yeah well see it's
00:37:44
all it's not
00:37:46
complicated everybody with agobia has a
00:37:49
safe
00:37:50
place where it that
00:37:54
disorder can't touch you
00:37:57
for me it is either a stage or ockland
00:38:02
city I could be in Oakland City and live
00:38:05
a beautiful life and the minute I hopped
00:38:08
in the car and drove off downstair to
00:38:11
palon North to do a gig at the hour puny
00:38:14
I would be Frozen with fear unless I had
00:38:17
my daddy's tranquilizer
00:38:19
pills but yeah so Oakland in fact
00:38:22
everybody I've talked to that has come
00:38:24
out and asked to speak to me about
00:38:26
agobia has their own safe place some of
00:38:29
them it's the bedroom the other ones are
00:38:31
really fearful they they go to open the
00:38:34
door of their bedroom and they rush back
00:38:35
in it and if that's severe that means
00:38:37
your world is reduced to yeah so at
00:38:39
least I I didn't know that this was the
00:38:42
case that's why forming a band with je
00:38:45
of Citizen band was fine I felt good
00:38:48
playing at the all the different venues
00:38:51
but then we started to travel oh [ __ ] I
00:38:55
had one bad panic attack and pson
00:38:59
North people thought I was really out of
00:39:02
it little did they realize I was just
00:39:04
taking too many tranquilizer tablets
00:39:06
where were you where were you playing
00:39:07
was it the a pun the AL our
00:39:11
pun I'm from from palas North so yeah
00:39:14
the hour we love it love being down
00:39:16
there the guy there alen CIA can't
00:39:20
remember his name put us up in hotel
00:39:23
rooms you know we were
00:39:25
spoiled okay well let yeah let's talk
00:39:28
about this for um for is it hard for you
00:39:30
to talk about this stuff or not the
00:39:32
slightest no okay so um so there's a
00:39:35
reality TV show that you go on uh called
00:39:37
new faces and I believe you finish in
00:39:39
seventh place we were second to
00:39:43
last is it the irony of that like given
00:39:46
how successful split ends went on to be
00:39:48
so that's when the the that's do you
00:39:49
call them panic attacks or yeah yeah
00:39:52
that was a bad one that was with space
00:39:54
wall so yeah so so you were playing in
00:39:56
both space spots and split in this Eddie
00:39:59
and Eddie R and I we both played on a
00:40:03
national tour with Space Balls I don't
00:40:06
know how this came about someone paid
00:40:07
for me to fly I was at work working as
00:40:10
an
00:40:11
engineer at Fisher and parle I would fly
00:40:14
in the morning down do the show say at
00:40:16
the CR Town Hall fly back the next
00:40:18
morning go to work fly back down to
00:40:21
theen PL that denen town nor flyback
00:40:24
what a mental life it was no wonder I
00:40:27
was
00:40:28
ravaged um I don't know what that was an
00:40:31
answer to did you ask me something well
00:40:33
yes so so the new faces reality TV
00:40:37
show see I hadn't had a panic attack so
00:40:39
this is where it all started yeah I'd
00:40:41
been in
00:40:42
ockland and unbeknown to me I was safe
00:40:46
you know and spans was doing well
00:40:48
and we were playing with Spaceballs at
00:40:51
the his Majesty's theater and that and
00:40:53
we flew down to do the
00:40:55
final film
00:40:57
of beautiful boy which is going to be in
00:41:00
the final of new faces so we filmed it
00:41:04
it's on New Zealand on screen on tell
00:41:06
you if you want to see it I've got Brill
00:41:08
cream slick
00:41:11
here had chicken dinner with the
00:41:14
boys they stood up and said we're going
00:41:16
to the bar and I just got whacked with
00:41:19
the most
00:41:21
ferocious case of
00:41:24
Terror just unimaginably
00:41:27
just huge overwhelming yeah as I say in
00:41:30
the book I rush back to the bedroom the
00:41:33
hotel room that Eckles and I were in
00:41:37
they'd all gone to the house bar so I
00:41:39
was there alone and I vomited I had
00:41:41
diarrhea I had diarrhea and vomiting I
00:41:43
was just it was and but what do I say to
00:41:46
anybody do I say oh I'm really really
00:41:49
really really really really really
00:41:51
scared H come what's up I don't know far
00:41:56
out so somehow I fell asleep after some
00:42:00
hours of just pretending to be
00:42:03
asleep and that's when the
00:42:06
battle
00:42:07
started so you were how old at the time
00:42:11
like 20 mid 20s 21 21 and it's the first
00:42:14
time it's happened [ __ ] that must be so
00:42:16
did you initially think it might be like
00:42:17
a food poisoning or a viral bug or I
00:42:20
think I had a weak Link in my psychic
00:42:24
chain and I had a susceptibility for a
00:42:28
phobic disorder because of the ones in
00:42:30
the family going back you know like my
00:42:33
uncle and all that kind of
00:42:35
stuff that I if I was not taking care
00:42:41
with my brain you could snap that
00:42:44
psychic chain and I broke it one night
00:42:48
in August
00:42:49
74 and I think it was
00:42:53
um yes I had had LSD that night but it
00:42:57
was the tie sticks that the minute I
00:43:00
inhaled the tie stick I went into
00:43:03
a a disgustingly fearful state which
00:43:07
vanished of course cuz I was in Oakland
00:43:09
so being in Oakland wasn't enough to
00:43:12
defeat that that first time watching TV
00:43:17
the TV became a monster it just looked
00:43:20
at me like you having a panic attack you
00:43:23
stupid wi was some big black dude
00:43:26
singing old music songs on TV anyway oh
00:43:29
Isaac Hayes no yeah Isaac Hayes the sh
00:43:32
from that
00:43:35
man something like that sha that's right
00:43:39
I was dying up there so but so you you
00:43:41
just thought you were having like a bad
00:43:43
trip um and I thought I had um brought
00:43:47
on a case of
00:43:49
Madness undefined but very real and that
00:43:53
I would be like this for the rest of my
00:43:54
life you weren't you weren't you didn't
00:43:56
have a massive drug career though did
00:43:57
you you just sort of went and done at
00:43:58
your girlfriend's parents house yeah
00:44:00
basically yeah yeah uh okay so see I
00:44:03
couldn't get home I didn't have a car
00:44:05
that's another thing is is the feeling
00:44:07
of
00:44:09
entrapment I should have rung my father
00:44:11
and and told him Dad if you've got a um
00:44:15
what do you call that stuff puts you to
00:44:16
sleep oh like a like like a tranquilizer
00:44:20
no um they put it put you to sleep for
00:44:23
operations oh I'm not anesthetic I um
00:44:27
you're
00:44:28
not but anyway the stuff that puts you
00:44:30
to sleep the anst puts it in and and an
00:44:33
aesthetic yes yes I didn't I was just
00:44:37
yeah you just have to White Knuckle it
00:44:38
and absolute hell on Earth yeah so so
00:44:42
but that incident in Wellington before
00:44:43
you went on TV for new faces so you're
00:44:45
sharing a room with um Bren hles who's
00:44:47
who's um gone on to become one of New
00:44:49
Zealand's best concert promoters ever he
00:44:51
is still very busy still very active um
00:44:54
you must have had chats with him over
00:44:55
the years about it what are his
00:44:56
recollection of it nothing did he pick
00:44:58
up on anything or were you really good
00:44:59
at wearing a mask I'm brilliant at
00:45:02
wearing a mask I never talked to the
00:45:03
band about it I never talked to anybody
00:45:06
about it
00:45:09
um I think because I was probably just
00:45:12
plain
00:45:14
embarrassed that by a fool
00:45:18
hearty acid titics mix i' fallen down a
00:45:23
deep dark hole into the black of
00:45:27
Hades I thought I was
00:45:30
insane until my darling Daddy when I
00:45:35
told him I had stage fright it's a great
00:45:38
lie I could have lived on the stage for
00:45:40
the rest of my life um he said oh you
00:45:42
should have have the syex tranquilizers
00:45:46
they'll help you on
00:45:48
stage so I took one and I just
00:45:51
fell like in the van I felt normal so I
00:45:57
lasted two and a half years taking half
00:46:00
in the morning half at night half in the
00:46:02
morning half at half in the morning half
00:46:04
at
00:46:05
night and slowly but surely the wet
00:46:09
blanket weighed down on me until I had
00:46:11
to
00:46:13
leave wow so but having half morning
00:46:17
half at night of these these pills that
00:46:19
kept them that kept them at Bay you
00:46:21
didn't have I mean you never know it
00:46:23
might have been just the the power of
00:46:25
suggestion and that the fact that I
00:46:27
thought these are going to help me oh
00:46:28
like a placebo effect yeah I don't
00:46:31
know anyway but it sounds like they um
00:46:35
like they they kept on happening over a
00:46:37
course of like a decade 12 years like
00:46:40
the panic attacks yes yeah yeah yeah U
00:46:42
they became pretty rare after
00:46:46
that in fact I never really had
00:46:49
them but I took the the tranquilizers
00:46:53
for 18
00:46:54
years I when I was writing sharp left
00:46:59
turn the book I thought I better learn
00:47:02
something about this drug you know
00:47:04
because I it taking a little so I looked
00:47:07
it up on something like Oxford
00:47:10
encyclopedia or something syex usually
00:47:13
not taken for more than 3 weeks I
00:47:16
thought oh what about the other 17 years
00:47:18
and 3 weeks um am I insane
00:47:23
now I don't feel insane I think I'm okay
00:47:28
but yeah well how long can you talk
00:47:32
about this because of course then it
00:47:33
left me I felt it go as if have you seen
00:47:38
that movie Baymax you know Baymax the
00:47:41
Character cartoon
00:47:43
no so baymax is looks after this little
00:47:48
kid and and when the little kid decides
00:47:51
that Baymax has looked after him enough
00:47:53
he goes and so there's this scene talk
00:47:57
about
00:47:58
crying I was watching with my
00:48:01
granddaughter at Baymax have I done
00:48:05
enough to help you staring at the little
00:48:07
boy boy who goes no no this is not the
00:48:10
time you oh no you can't do please
00:48:13
please have I done enough to help
00:48:18
you pause long pause pauses are great I
00:48:21
do them on the Bas all the
00:48:23
time yes you have and Baymax floats off
00:48:28
into
00:48:29
space beautiful scene
00:48:32
agobia said have I done enough to help
00:48:35
you and after quite a big argument I
00:48:38
said yes you have and the disorder just
00:48:41
floated
00:48:42
away it's been mischievous now and then
00:48:46
and I've never had I did
00:48:50
have real trouble in New York in the
00:48:52
'90s but that was because I drunk far
00:48:55
too much on the plane and got my into a
00:48:57
right
00:48:58
State anyway look it's a complex world
00:49:01
having a brain yeah it it is and it
00:49:04
sounds like you I mean reading the book
00:49:06
like it's um I felt really bad for you
00:49:09
it's like harrowing just living in
00:49:10
almost this fear of these things
00:49:13
happening and just you the the
00:49:15
uncertainty of knowing if it's going to
00:49:16
happen is it not going to happen there's
00:49:18
one incident where you talk about where
00:49:20
you've got a layover at LAX you're
00:49:22
flying to London and uh your bag gets
00:49:24
checked all the way through again this
00:49:26
is like um 1970 so uh this is long
00:49:29
before like you know Aviation Security
00:49:31
is even a patch on what it is now but
00:49:34
your tranquilizers were in your luggage
00:49:36
that was checked all the way through and
00:49:37
you realized you had like half a pill
00:49:39
sitting in your pocket so you were it
00:49:41
sounded like you were a junkie almost
00:49:43
like trying to you know rashing out this
00:49:46
half a pill figuring out when to take it
00:49:48
or I'll never forget the GU saying you
00:49:50
haven't got a visa to stay here at all
00:49:54
so the bags have gone through it London
00:49:57
and I looked at him I thought that what
00:50:00
must have been what the look was like
00:50:02
when you went into oswit and hopped off
00:50:04
the train was something you knew that
00:50:07
all of hell was waiting for you but
00:50:10
luckily I had my half and I must have
00:50:12
sort of somehow talk myself into that
00:50:15
half will be okay so I just pretended to
00:50:18
be asleep for like s or eight on a
00:50:21
whatever the time it takes to fly to
00:50:23
London from New York and I got through m
00:50:26
in a Shabby State mind you
00:50:29
yeah do you like from where you are now
00:50:32
do you look back and you regret not hard
00:50:34
like not talking to your bandmates about
00:50:36
it or not seeking some more professional
00:50:37
help well I think they probably would
00:50:39
have asked me or let me go I was scared
00:50:44
they were going to let me go because I
00:50:45
was
00:50:46
mad but you weren't you weren't mad
00:50:48
though no I had a phobic disorder and
00:50:51
lots of people got them there are people
00:50:54
right now probably sending you a text or
00:50:57
something about well he's he's got what
00:50:59
I want yeah but um there it's it's
00:51:04
important to know who is part of your
00:51:09
saving process so my wife
00:51:12
Bridget flying with her this is back in
00:51:15
the days when I was still taking the
00:51:18
pills in theory but if if I had
00:51:20
forgotten to bring
00:51:22
it I possibly could board a plane with
00:51:25
her with me you know having people like
00:51:28
that and maybe even my father I never
00:51:30
flew with him ever like kind of weird
00:51:33
like an anchor thing or a comfort thing
00:51:35
or a security thing security I think you
00:51:37
know cuz she's very important in my life
00:51:40
and
00:51:40
so she's my wife did I say that yeah and
00:51:45
um yeah but in
00:51:48
yeah I mean it was a it was it was a
00:51:51
different time like um yeah water it was
00:51:54
uh it was a time where you didn't talk
00:51:57
about that sort of stuff um was that for
00:51:59
stigma reasons you think or well I just
00:52:01
didn't know what to say yeah I didn't
00:52:03
want say okay guys it started in August
00:52:06
and uh someone was singing what's what
00:52:11
was the song on TV and I had this
00:52:13
massive dose of Terror overcome me uh
00:52:17
which I presume was to do with the drugs
00:52:19
I'd taken and I'm now quite
00:52:22
insane uh and so what shall I do about
00:52:26
it and they were going oh well go to
00:52:28
hospital and psychiatric ward or
00:52:30
something I thought people would put me
00:52:32
in a
00:52:34
ward like one flow of the cucko in this
00:52:36
style yeah I I could have been
00:52:39
um McMurphy or the chief I could m m
00:52:43
that would have been good it's got a
00:52:44
rain yeah
00:52:47
oh sh it's um it's heartbreaking it's
00:52:50
heartbreaking what you went through it
00:52:52
was awful and you went through it for
00:52:53
such a long period of time yeah but when
00:52:57
I think about all I did everything in
00:52:59
like a 10-year block just by chance so I
00:53:03
played Bas in a professional band for 10
00:53:07
years then when I got mushroom records I
00:53:10
rang Michael ginsky beautiful man and I
00:53:13
said you need a New Zealand mushroom he
00:53:15
said you're right I do hold hold fire
00:53:19
two days later he turns up with a big
00:53:22
image he's done in his art Department of
00:53:24
mushroom New Zealand in the first alum
00:53:26
was cool bananas and that was number one
00:53:29
second album was P Bean dance exponents
00:53:31
that sold double Platinum so I had a
00:53:34
great time and all of a sudden I was
00:53:35
distracted from life on the road in a
00:53:40
band um and then I went to Appa for 11
00:53:43
years I love that because I would meet
00:53:45
songwriters by the truckload you know
00:53:48
Don mcglashan would come in to have a
00:53:49
meeting how's this SE work I explain it
00:53:52
to done looking at him like I'm in the
00:53:54
same room as Dum GL that's really cool M
00:53:58
and
00:54:00
then why did I leave ail well that's a
00:54:02
very good question and maybe I'm just a
00:54:05
lever anyway and then I went to PL
00:54:07
strange where I still am 21 years later
00:54:10
well you're you're accelerating some
00:54:11
very very big um chunks of the Mike Chan
00:54:14
story here well how many hours do you
00:54:15
want
00:54:16
to bringing some
00:54:19
beer it's it's quite early we I can get
00:54:21
a couple of beers in if you want though
00:54:23
no fine um okay so first of all um
00:54:25
Michael G you mentioned uh his name I
00:54:28
had the fortune of meeting him like a
00:54:29
few years ago I went to Detroit for um
00:54:32
Taylor Swift concert and he was bringing
00:54:34
Taylor and ID to New Zealand and
00:54:36
Australia so we went out for had a
00:54:37
lovely dinner how um yeah you were quite
00:54:40
close with him did you are you familiar
00:54:42
with the Ed Shan song visiting hours no
00:54:45
oh you got to check it out promise me
00:54:46
you check it out it's a song that he
00:54:47
wrote as a tribute to Michael excellent
00:54:50
Fant talks about If Heaven had visiting
00:54:52
hours and just how much he misses his
00:54:53
mate visiting hours you'll love it um
00:54:56
yeah what was what was your relationship
00:54:58
like with Michael gadinsky well it was
00:54:59
it was professional you know um tough
00:55:02
guy right he never went out
00:55:04
yeah well later when I was running the
00:55:08
anr for CVS records which was a short
00:55:12
period of
00:55:13
time but I had
00:55:17
produced I'm looking at you in a funny
00:55:19
way com I'm as much a producer as dog
00:55:23
outside that's prob having
00:55:25
asleep but Phil Jud signed a little
00:55:27
piece of paper that says the next
00:55:29
swingers I produced the swingers One
00:55:31
Good Reason the next swingers song uh
00:55:35
that we record you can have the rights
00:55:38
to it here in you know yeah in New
00:55:42
Zealand so the next thing they go and
00:55:44
record is counting the beat [ __ ] with
00:55:49
tickle whatever his first name
00:55:52
is well I get a copy take it down to
00:55:55
John M pry at CBS records he says okay
00:55:58
this is our new swinger single we're
00:56:01
going to release
00:56:03
it the phone rings at about 2
00:56:06
a.m. Chan you
00:56:09
[ __ ] I thought oh no can he knows I've
00:56:13
taken it down to CBS and that it hasn't
00:56:15
gone off the festival records or
00:56:17
wherever he wanted it to
00:56:18
go it was extremely precocious of
00:56:22
me and his was I'm I was listening to
00:56:27
like oh man he's good at giving me heaps
00:56:31
he's really telling me off I can't do
00:56:33
that what I want lessons from him on how
00:56:35
to make someone feel deeply regretful
00:56:39
but I'm not going to and that song came
00:56:41
out it was number one second week or
00:56:43
something oh it's a massive song it
00:56:45
still gets used on ads for Kmart to this
00:56:48
day it was only in New Zealand that CBS
00:56:51
had the rights but you know and uh so
00:56:57
he immediately that was before I rang
00:57:01
him to say you should have a mushroom in
00:57:02
New Zealand he called me chinny yeah
00:57:05
chny what's up you should have a
00:57:06
mushroom I thought what happened to the
00:57:08
swingers we w't mention the swingers uh
00:57:12
just business eh
00:57:14
and mushroom New Zealand I think
00:57:17
actually did a fantastic job anr wise
00:57:21
and Festival sold a lot of
00:57:24
albums yeah yeah a lot of a lot of
00:57:26
people won't know what we're talking
00:57:27
about mushroom was a very successful
00:57:29
record label you were the head of it you
00:57:30
signed um a young Dave Dobbin with his
00:57:33
band DD smash yep yeah incredible band
00:57:36
yeah what what are what are your
00:57:38
Recollections of a young a young Dobbin
00:57:40
what didn't he have um just terrible
00:57:41
stage flight like played with us back to
00:57:43
the crowd in the early days I well
00:57:47
my
00:57:49
cognizance of Dave was when I played
00:57:52
bass in a band called The Party Boys
00:57:54
everyone had sort of left bands or
00:57:56
whatever so there was there were two
00:57:59
party boy tours the second one is the
00:58:01
one
00:58:02
really that was the most
00:58:04
exciting Pete Warren on drums Neil Fen
00:58:07
on guitar and vocals Dave doin on guitar
00:58:09
and vocals and me on Bas wow but he
00:58:13
would quite often vomit before going on
00:58:15
stage and you could tell he
00:58:19
was tense before he
00:58:22
so he was scared of going on the stage I
00:58:25
don't I never actually asked him we
00:58:27
would just notice that he had Yet to
00:58:29
Come On Stage because he was having a
00:58:31
puke what why did you never think to
00:58:34
talk about it and think maybe he's got a
00:58:36
similar thing to what I've got if the
00:58:37
guys from the spin happen to hear what
00:58:40
we're talking about they'd be laughing
00:58:42
and that we were the band that never
00:58:45
spoke to each other let alone anybody
00:58:48
else we were socially
00:58:50
pathetic just a product of the time I've
00:58:53
got no I don't
00:58:55
know I mean maybe if Tim was sitting
00:58:57
over there he'd say was boarding school
00:58:59
Mike remember did we learn how to
00:59:02
communicate at boarding school did the
00:59:03
brothers ever talk to us like did you
00:59:06
have a good holiday over Christmas Chun
00:59:08
blah blah blah no it was a deathly kind
00:59:12
of Silent world that we grew up
00:59:15
in very strange just the I think it's
00:59:18
just the generational thing right the
00:59:20
generation you grew up in the
00:59:22
time yeah yeah like like stiff upper lip
00:59:25
sort of thing um keep com and carry on
00:59:27
don't show any sort of weakness or
00:59:29
vulnerability yeah well there was well
00:59:33
we didn't have a name for my disorder I
00:59:35
think Phil God bless him had a kind of
00:59:38
social disorder social phobia cuz he
00:59:41
would walk off the stage especially the
00:59:43
American tour he would just not be there
00:59:46
he couldn't do
00:59:49
it did you did you have some sort of
00:59:52
um fom fomo I guess you know fear of
00:59:54
missing out like after you I mean you
00:59:57
you made you made the decision that you
00:59:59
had to make for your own health to to
01:00:01
leave the band and to stay in Oakland um
01:00:03
but when the the band had all that
01:00:04
success after that um you know starting
01:00:06
with I got you and then everything else
01:00:08
that followed was there a bit of you
01:00:10
that felt like bummed out or you know
01:00:13
not at all I think
01:00:16
because having it
01:00:19
was it it presented such a I call it
01:00:23
almost evil front that here we go again
01:00:27
like that they got on planes all the
01:00:29
time all of a sudden they got on all
01:00:32
sorts of stuff and the traveling they
01:00:35
did would have killed me no I I have
01:00:38
never but also if you look
01:00:42
back I could never regret any step
01:00:47
forward that I made because I so want to
01:00:51
be where I am
01:00:53
[Music]
01:00:54
today yeah
01:00:57
I love that
01:00:59
um yeah yeah I notic in your book that
01:01:02
you're you're in a voice that's quite
01:01:03
you're quite mean to yourself at times
01:01:05
aren't you just the way you sort of
01:01:07
speak to yourself like calling yourself
01:01:08
a buffoon
01:01:10
and
01:01:13
yeah yeah yeah I'm not sure where that
01:01:17
well self-deprecating
01:01:22
or I don't I wonder if I have an ego
01:01:26
i' I'd say if anything you got the
01:01:27
reverse of of an ego like there's been a
01:01:29
couple of times uh today where you
01:01:30
talked about playing guitar because it's
01:01:32
the easiest instrument to play um I've
01:01:34
read that you you you say you can't sing
01:01:36
or can't write
01:01:38
songs that's true though although I've
01:01:40
got I've got a theory on that and
01:01:42
correct me if I'm wrong but um okay um
01:01:45
let's use the beetles as as an example
01:01:47
because it's your your favorite band
01:01:49
George Harrison right fantastic
01:01:51
songwriter but put him next to Lyon and
01:01:53
McCartney and he he looks pretty average
01:01:55
by compar
01:01:56
you've just been surrounded by like the
01:01:58
tallest trees imaginable in New Zealand
01:02:00
music you know luck Dobbin the fins
01:02:04
andert name here and by comparison
01:02:07
whatever you write is going to look
01:02:08
pretty ordinary that's true and I'm an a
01:02:11
of those people as as creative minds so
01:02:15
I was very happy just to be in a band
01:02:17
with them yeah
01:02:19
yeah yeah okay so yeah so you worked at
01:02:23
mashman for a while then you went to era
01:02:24
which is the AUST Asian performing
01:02:27
Rights Association so you you've been
01:02:30
your whole life it's been deeply
01:02:31
entrenched in the music industry both on
01:02:33
stage and um behind the scenes yeah and
01:02:37
with the foundation of every step of
01:02:41
those career moves being the songs that
01:02:44
are written in New Zealand it's about
01:02:47
songs yeah it's not about the best leag
01:02:49
guitarist or how loud you know it's not
01:02:53
the loudest band so that's where
01:02:56
having D Smash and dance exponents me
01:02:59
Jordan luck as a songwriter is just
01:03:01
profoundly good so he would come through
01:03:04
with new
01:03:05
songs um with this crazy bunch of boys
01:03:09
do you do you have um are you more of a
01:03:12
fan of the dance exponents or the
01:03:14
exponents in terms of Music
01:03:16
output oh that's a really really
01:03:18
interesting
01:03:20
question I'm going to go 5050 oh that's
01:03:23
a copout you're sitting on the fence
01:03:25
I've got a I've got a mate do you know
01:03:27
do you know my my friend Robert Scott
01:03:28
he's been in radio know Robert Scott
01:03:30
heer he loves was he uh in the bats no
01:03:35
oh no there is a Robert Scott in the
01:03:37
bats he he's a radio guy works works at
01:03:39
the Bree but he he drags me along to
01:03:41
exponents concerts all the time and a
01:03:43
couple of years ago they did um a double
01:03:45
a double night thing night one was the
01:03:46
dance exponents night two was the
01:03:48
exponents um so I went along to the
01:03:50
dance experence night with him then he
01:03:51
went the next night as well he goes to
01:03:53
all of them but I yeah I mean you were
01:03:56
with Jordan in the in in between the two
01:03:58
right you were over in the UK with him
01:04:01
well obviously R
01:04:02
company when they were the dance
01:04:06
exponents then it all fell apart and
01:04:08
they went to England and I went to
01:04:10
England too to run
01:04:12
away after mushroom and I went around to
01:04:17
visit them and times were real
01:04:21
tough and I know what that's like and
01:04:24
then they said oh
01:04:26
we've been asked to play at the
01:04:27
Leicester Ballroom for a New Zealand TV
01:04:30
in
01:04:32
ton and the footage will go south you
01:04:34
know to New Zealand they were just one
01:04:37
of the ex and they hopped up there and
01:04:39
they played this song called why does
01:04:41
love do this to me oh and I rushed
01:04:44
backstage and I said well Buzz reckons I
01:04:49
said who who is that what song is that
01:04:53
that you've covered I wouldn't have did
01:04:56
that and if I did I feel terrible but I
01:04:59
believe I in backst and said what an
01:05:02
amazing song where'd that come from so
01:05:04
they go back to New Zealand get a deal
01:05:06
with Adam Hal at Universal and why does
01:05:09
love do this to minut comes out and it
01:05:11
may as well be the national anthem every
01:05:13
single New Zealander sings that
01:05:16
song yeah the familiarity level is just
01:05:20
and that's what a good song does it
01:05:21
sticks with you till pretty much the day
01:05:24
you die m
01:05:26
yeah as the exponents the the songs they
01:05:29
came back with in the second half of
01:05:30
their career just phenomenal phenomenal
01:05:31
pop songs it's incredible he's an
01:05:33
interesting guy like he hasn't drunk
01:05:35
drunk in a few years has he no yeah well
01:05:38
I saw a lot of them when I was mushroom
01:05:40
with them
01:05:41
and he just kept throwing these songs at
01:05:44
them here's this one here's that one
01:05:47
here yeah no they're are very special
01:05:50
group of people um one thing I really
01:05:52
like about uh your story from the age
01:05:55
I'm at now cuz I'm I'm 51 that's ex the
01:05:58
exact same age you were when you started
01:06:00
play at strange so you finish your
01:06:02
corporate career you're at this place
01:06:04
called AA austral Asian performing
01:06:05
Rights Association you have a 5 Monon
01:06:07
break in Europe and you decide to to um
01:06:09
stop it and the the funny thing is 51 a
01:06:13
lot of people I know when I was 30 I
01:06:14
thought 51 you were dead life was over
01:06:17
now I'm here I realize it's it's not the
01:06:19
case but the fact that you started this
01:06:21
thing which has become I don't know part
01:06:22
of your legacy I think at 51 I think
01:06:24
that's kind of cool so how was um what
01:06:26
was the what was the birth of Play It
01:06:28
Strange how do you describe play it
01:06:30
strange for anyone that doesn't know
01:06:32
well I I'll talk about what it does so
01:06:35
what it what became very clear to me is
01:06:41
that you had bands like
01:06:44
um oh [ __ ] give me some Spencer day was
01:06:48
grp that that had songwriters in them
01:06:51
that were
01:06:52
teenagers and New Zealand and in New
01:06:56
Zealand schools I wasn't aware of
01:06:59
anyone writing songs except for the odd
01:07:02
one like Dave Dobbin or
01:07:05
something and I thought why not why
01:07:08
aren't they and I met Professor pet pson
01:07:11
from Berkeley College of Music in
01:07:14
Boston we got on like a house off and I
01:07:18
said to him okay so you're the professor
01:07:20
of songw writing and lyric writing at um
01:07:23
in
01:07:24
Boston do you ever come across teenage
01:07:27
school age songwriters that are really
01:07:30
really good he
01:07:32
said
01:07:34
no and I said why not is there anywhere
01:07:37
in the world you'd think England and
01:07:39
America as the two Fountain heads of
01:07:43
class pop songs would have teenagers and
01:07:46
he said well the only country I know
01:07:48
that has a structure for them to have
01:07:50
their songs heard as New
01:07:52
Zealand so that actually is the end the
01:07:55
story so yeah
01:07:58
um yeah why I thought there aren't any
01:08:01
songs being written in schools why
01:08:04
not do they play rugby in schools MH uh
01:08:08
do they have people learning all about
01:08:10
science to become scientists do they
01:08:12
learn languages to become linguists or
01:08:14
whatever they want to do with them
01:08:19
songwriting I think it's
01:08:21
because music teachers always think I'm
01:08:24
beating beating them up but anyway I'm
01:08:26
not I'm not today please I'm not I'm not
01:08:29
uh they they aren't songwriters you know
01:08:33
they do JS or they they do serious
01:08:36
musical concert B and stuff like you
01:08:38
know 76 drum bones led the big parade
01:08:42
and
01:08:44
that so A A friend of mine Bill Moran
01:08:49
who was
01:08:50
a a finance was in the government but
01:08:54
also Phil Jud freak he rang me when he
01:08:57
heard I was leaving and said you're
01:08:58
leaving eper and I said yeah I am B know
01:09:02
the time's
01:09:03
come he said do you know what gaming
01:09:06
societies
01:09:08
are I said no I've never heard of them
01:09:11
what are they he said
01:09:12
well we should form a charitable trust
01:09:16
and get money off a gaming society and
01:09:19
what would it
01:09:20
do I'm standing on the footpath outside
01:09:23
benediction Cafe in Norland
01:09:26
uh songwriting competitions he says
01:09:28
great idea great what
01:09:31
else ukulele orchestras that's great
01:09:34
I'll be in Oakland tomorrow or something
01:09:35
and we'll start the whole thing well in
01:09:37
about two weeks play it he said I've got
01:09:40
a name for it I said what is it Bill he
01:09:42
said play at
01:09:44
strange and I said H that makes sense
01:09:46
because he was such a Phil Jud fan of
01:09:48
play at strange is the song written by
01:09:50
Phil Jud that was never recorded
01:09:54
properly I I could tell also at the same
01:09:56
time he wanted to fly Phil J back from
01:09:58
Australia to be a judge on it which
01:10:02
happened uh so PL strange came to be and
01:10:05
we just threw
01:10:07
out come on get get your songwriting
01:10:11
students get your music students get
01:10:14
students get creative writing people to
01:10:17
write lyrics just all write songs and
01:10:19
see them to us here at plat strange Neil
01:10:22
Finn God bless him had given us a room
01:10:24
at the top of his building building so I
01:10:26
would sit there with a
01:10:28
phone we'd send out a little booklet to
01:10:30
all the music teachers we're running a
01:10:32
songwriting competition get your
01:10:34
students to
01:10:36
join we're running a songwriting
01:10:38
competition get the students to join
01:10:40
come on come
01:10:41
on then one day the phone
01:10:45
rang it's like a scene out of u a horror
01:10:52
movie Mike here at Planet strange Mike
01:10:55
it's Sharon Hollis here at the scotwood
01:10:57
trust in
01:10:59
Hamilton I've got your a little book
01:11:01
here about your songwriting competitions
01:11:04
and I think I can get my board of
01:11:06
directors
01:11:08
what to give you some funds to start it
01:11:12
well I've been told since that she got
01:11:14
beaten up at the board meeting like what
01:11:17
are you talking about player strange
01:11:18
what a stupid name what a song writing
01:11:20
what the [ __ ] said all about but she won
01:11:23
she got the money we and on the first
01:11:25
first album we did in 19 uh sorry
01:11:29
2004 a little 14-year-old from Hamilton
01:11:33
called kimra had a song and it just
01:11:37
smashed all the windows when we played
01:11:39
it and so I just thought there are
01:11:41
songwriters out there at the schools
01:11:44
they just need to be heard and so we
01:11:46
started with one album of 20
01:11:50
songs this year I think we're going to
01:11:52
reach about 650 songs
01:11:55
yeah and you just start down as as CEO
01:11:58
at the end of last year after 20 years
01:11:59
yeah well Bill said you can be the CEO I
01:12:02
actually didn't really know what that
01:12:03
inail I'll be the CEO
01:12:06
sure he said yeah
01:12:08
okay yeah I I went to the second slot
01:12:12
really
01:12:14
uh a CEO can't go on
01:12:17
forever so what you what are you doing
01:12:19
now you still s of I'm the creative
01:12:21
director so and I'm a Founder yeah geez
01:12:25
it's it's so cool what a legacy eh I've
01:12:28
had a ball best job I've ever had even
01:12:30
better than expence expence was riddled
01:12:33
with problems of my own doing but play
01:12:37
strange it's you know when I go into a
01:12:39
studio and someone like Bill Engish
01:12:41
daughter Maria English is sitting there
01:12:44
singing her song about this
01:12:47
girl I hope she doesn't hear this this
01:12:50
girl which is about a girl that she
01:12:52
doesn't like and make the lyrics in the
01:12:56
in the
01:12:57
songwriting of the songs from schools
01:13:00
are
01:13:01
incredibly cathartic the pouring of the
01:13:04
heart out whether it's to a father
01:13:09
that's left them on Father's Day that's
01:13:11
an incredibly terrible song um the
01:13:15
mother who's beaten up by the Father the
01:13:17
fathers are actually [ __ ] most of
01:13:19
the songs but there are mothers and then
01:13:21
the boy girl relationship one guy was
01:13:24
and his the first year it was all about
01:13:26
how wonderful this girl was the next
01:13:28
year it was about a girl and how
01:13:30
terrible she was and I said to him so we
01:13:32
got a new girlfriend sort of he said no
01:13:35
she's dropped
01:13:36
me they're all healing themselves with
01:13:39
songs you know that's a short summation
01:13:42
of what it's all about yeah I like that
01:13:44
God you must be incredibly proud of play
01:13:46
it strange it's really cool right it's
01:13:47
it had to be there somewhere in the
01:13:50
passage of time a play Strange a
01:13:53
songwriting environment had to so school
01:13:56
kids can send them in cuz go back to Pat
01:14:00
Patterson again we were sitting in my
01:14:02
car going to Hamilton and I was playing
01:14:04
a PL strange CD of songs that have been
01:14:07
entered and he said you know what the
01:14:10
best thing is about plat strange he said
01:14:12
are you are you playing these songs I
01:14:14
said yeah I am he said that someone not
01:14:17
only decides to write the song Not only
01:14:21
starts to write the song but then horror
01:14:24
of all Horrors finds the energy to
01:14:27
finish the song that apparently is the
01:14:29
high part and then sends it to Australia
01:14:32
with a whole set of lyrics which are
01:14:33
part of the heaing process so it doesn't
01:14:36
really matter who wins it doesn't even
01:14:39
really matter who goes on the album it's
01:14:42
the fact that how many this year I think
01:14:44
this was a few years ago I said
01:14:46
something like 420 he said that 420
01:14:49
songs were started and finished whereas
01:14:51
without PL strange they probably would
01:14:53
have been two
01:14:56
H [ __ ] I can tell you're proud just the
01:14:59
way you talk about it I yeah I just love
01:15:03
it yeah has it did it give you a new Lis
01:15:06
of life where do you think you would
01:15:07
have been now at the age of 71 if you
01:15:08
hadn't been busy with us for the last 20
01:15:10
years oh well I did love AA why did I
01:15:12
leave
01:15:13
era yeah cuz I read in your book when
01:15:15
you got know the answer when you got the
01:15:17
job at era that's uh that was the moment
01:15:20
when you had that security that your um
01:15:22
AGR phobia left like you can pinpoint
01:15:24
the ex moment I felt it yeah it sort of
01:15:28
went aming like a weight leaving your
01:15:30
body I've been opening a glove box to
01:15:32
take out the tranquilizer to catch the
01:15:34
flight back to
01:15:36
Oakland and I picked up the bottle and
01:15:38
then
01:15:41
this happened and I put it back in the
01:15:43
glove box shut it and caught the flight
01:15:46
what's going on so you haven't you
01:15:48
haven't had any of those pills for how
01:15:50
many years years years I carry them now
01:15:52
I do carry them do you as
01:15:55
i't been I haven't been traveling enough
01:15:58
Yeah you sort of need to keep beating it
01:16:00
down right like sort of face your fears
01:16:02
sort of thing yeah in a way and and
01:16:05
there have been quite long periods of
01:16:07
time where I haven't flown it's all
01:16:09
about the
01:16:12
flight God the brain's a complex [ __ ]
01:16:14
thing isn't it um oh a couple of other
01:16:18
things so you yeah you made Royal honors
01:16:20
uh in 2002 for music and again in 2015
01:16:23
for your services to Mental Health what
01:16:25
are you like a companion of the what's
01:16:28
yeah I'm a friendly guy I'm a
01:16:31
companion companion of the order of the
01:16:34
a companion of the New Zealand order of
01:16:36
Merit yeah are they are they something
01:16:39
you're proud of do they mean a lot to
01:16:40
you yeah and especially my mom dad had
01:16:43
gone but Mom was very proud and and so
01:16:46
with my family you know that we were all
01:16:48
at the government house luncheon for
01:16:50
those who had received the
01:16:53
companion and it was a great vibe in the
01:16:56
room
01:16:57
yeah that's good I mean well it's an
01:17:01
honor isn't it yeah well if someone
01:17:04
wants to give you one I think why
01:17:06
not 100% and well well deserved do does
01:17:09
one mean more than the other like the
01:17:10
the one first Serv yes yes it does d
01:17:13
yeah it starts with queen service or
01:17:16
something then it goes to a member of
01:17:19
the order of Merit then you're an
01:17:20
officer of the order of Merit which was
01:17:22
my first one then you're a companion of
01:17:25
the New Zealand order of mar and then
01:17:27
you go on to be a KN no I mean does does
01:17:30
one mean more than the other to you in
01:17:31
terms of um no services to music versus
01:17:34
services to mental health no no both
01:17:37
equal yeah yeah um how do you how do you
01:17:39
feel about aging oh I'm into it yeah
01:17:43
yeah I'm fine and there are things I
01:17:44
can't do anymore I can't run because my
01:17:48
I've got a sort
01:17:50
of rheumatoid arthletic problem with my
01:17:54
legs
01:17:55
I don't know if you notice me wobbling
01:17:56
in here but um I I work away chip away
01:18:01
but I you know so
01:18:05
um yeah I don't think about it if I
01:18:09
can't walk properly I don't walk
01:18:11
properly I don't sit around brooding
01:18:13
about anything to do with health yeah
01:18:17
you're in good shape good health I think
01:18:19
so yeah what what are the most
01:18:20
frustrating or annoying aspects of
01:18:23
Aging just the
01:18:26
arthritis well even that I don't care
01:18:28
about I have no crims at the moment
01:18:31
about anything yeah you seem happy and
01:18:33
relaxed it's a good place to be um are
01:18:35
there still things you want to learn or
01:18:41
achieve I I'd like to have a go uh well
01:18:46
see I I basically don't think I can can
01:18:48
do it I'd like to write a
01:18:51
book of course you can how many of you
01:18:53
written so far they're just like you
01:18:55
know pages of a diary oh like a novel or
01:18:59
yeah like those sort of stream of
01:19:02
Consciousness things like I've just
01:19:03
finished Jame uh Janet
01:19:07
frames faces in the water which is Al so
01:19:11
part biography things like that hugely
01:19:15
in it's I love Dickens so I would have
01:19:17
read seven Dickens books and it's how he
01:19:20
says things not what he's
01:19:23
saying so
01:19:26
it needs you need a lot of time
01:19:28
uh no actually I having said that I'm
01:19:32
speaking to myself here you're talking
01:19:35
[ __ ] really just thinking out so I don't
01:19:37
really want to write a
01:19:38
book I feel like you like the idea of
01:19:41
writing a book and when you think about
01:19:42
how much Works sit down and look at it
01:19:44
this
01:19:47
like I want to make sure I don't forget
01:19:50
how to play for example
01:19:53
the um the piano bits that I love
01:19:56
playing you know like the girl with the
01:19:58
flex in here by
01:20:01
deusi you know if I forget that so I
01:20:04
need to keep my memory alert yeah is and
01:20:07
playing the piano actually is a really
01:20:09
good thing for exercising the brain is
01:20:12
it just a case of use it or lose it with
01:20:14
the yeah I think so yeah um what are
01:20:17
your thoughts of um the the current
01:20:19
music landscape like what what current
01:20:21
artists do you like who are you a big
01:20:22
fan of oh um well I know it sounds like
01:20:25
fob or stupid really
01:20:28
but all I listen to at the moment are
01:20:30
songs from schools so you could say yeah
01:20:34
but what
01:20:35
about blue blue Billy ey it wouldn't
01:20:38
have a clue wouldn't have I don't listen
01:20:40
to them right uh I have very active uh
01:20:46
children
01:20:47
that you know like I'm going to see Voom
01:20:50
on Sunday night with my daughter and my
01:20:54
my son Barney and
01:20:56
I we play songs together really
01:20:59
well Ruby can play the lead solid
01:21:01
wonderful
01:21:04
tonight and Johnny learned how to play
01:21:07
something by Passenger so there's all
01:21:09
this sense of involvement
01:21:13
and I don't really set high standards
01:21:15
for myself you know I can get myself
01:21:18
through part of the second movement of R
01:21:21
manof yeah that's cool
01:21:24
um what about
01:21:27
um what what about how how old are your
01:21:30
grandkids Alie is about 20 months
01:21:36
yeah Alfred my father's name was Alfred
01:21:40
actually no it wasn't my grandfather's
01:21:42
name and Lyra l y r a Lyra is five any
01:21:48
day she's called Lyra because that's the
01:21:51
lead character in the trilogy by Philip
01:21:54
pman of the northern
01:21:58
lights and there's one in the oven wow
01:22:02
you're enjoying this new chapter of your
01:22:04
life being a grandparent what are you
01:22:06
what are you um maybe that maybe they're
01:22:07
too young to go down this track yet but
01:22:09
what are you what are you play to them
01:22:11
what do you sing to them do you make up
01:22:12
you make up funny songs or Bary does
01:22:14
that with
01:22:15
Alfie um
01:22:17
Lyra no she's more into reading books in
01:22:20
fact what she can sort of do which is
01:22:22
kind of really strange and etheric
01:22:25
is that she can you read her the
01:22:28
book actually her mother used to do this
01:22:30
too
01:22:32
like um brussels sprouts are aliens I
01:22:35
know this to be
01:22:37
true and then you might go to read it
01:22:40
again and she's sitting here and I go
01:22:42
someone says something I go what what
01:22:44
and she goes Brussels that Ence I know
01:22:48
that to be
01:22:49
through she knows it she reads the whole
01:22:52
book wow she can't read so
01:22:54
I love that sort of stuff the
01:22:56
advancement of the
01:22:59
intellect it's and but it's done very
01:23:02
much to their enjoyment and what they
01:23:05
want to do never going
01:23:07
to we're not a disciplinarian
01:23:11
environment yeah what was your
01:23:13
upbringing like was it a disciplinary
01:23:15
environment I couldn't stand the
01:23:16
education discipline you know
01:23:20
I like caning on the knuckles and I
01:23:23
didn't get caned on in fact I had the
01:23:25
best music teacher on the planet Mrs
01:23:27
Beasley but and she would buy me sheet
01:23:31
music and and I would learn how to play
01:23:32
what should we do with a drink and S
01:23:34
where the other poor suckers in my class
01:23:36
were having to do things like Fair
01:23:41
release made to play songs that they
01:23:44
would never listen to to me the whole
01:23:46
world of learning an instrument as you
01:23:49
learn to play pieces of music or songs
01:23:52
or whatever they are that you like to
01:23:55
listen
01:23:56
to does that sound like I'm emphasizing
01:23:59
it yeah 100% it's common sense right
01:24:01
it's common sense it's like um oh hello
01:24:05
I'd like to play rugby I'm dreaming of
01:24:07
being in the ph5 brother no no rugby you
01:24:11
can hurt yourself the only thing we have
01:24:14
that's competitive is
01:24:22
chess that probably happens yeah
01:24:24
um do do you have any
01:24:26
regrets uh well I could say yes that
01:24:30
that and that this and this
01:24:32
but all of them if they weren't to
01:24:37
happen or didn't happen would find me
01:24:40
not where I am
01:24:42
today yeah and it's good to have an
01:24:44
understanding of that day how everything
01:24:46
fits in together but [ __ ] it would have
01:24:47
saved you a lot of um a lot of pain a
01:24:49
lot of Anguish to um address the agrop
01:24:52
phobia earlier
01:24:56
yeah but then there are you
01:24:59
know there's a woman I wouldn't have met
01:25:03
and there
01:25:04
uh yeah I never would have been an AA
01:25:08
and I mean my time in AA and in plant
01:25:11
strange have in Ence been as enjoyable
01:25:14
and
01:25:16
rewarding as in the
01:25:19
bands yeah life's been good everything's
01:25:21
worked out everything works out for a
01:25:23
reason I'm okay yeah um are you proud of
01:25:26
are you proud of yourself oh I like
01:25:29
asking my guest this question because
01:25:31
it's just I feel like it's an awkward
01:25:32
one for us New Zealand am I proud of
01:25:37
myself well I've heard that I
01:25:41
am Bridget when we went for lunch at
01:25:45
government house for the
01:25:47
companion bronze you know thing she said
01:25:51
that to me and I thought oh that's
01:25:53
really
01:25:55
you know because that's not not the sort
01:25:56
of thing people throw around like I'm
01:25:58
really really proud of
01:26:02
you sh that's wonderful isn't it and my
01:26:07
mom she said it too I don't need to hear
01:26:10
it
01:26:11
often uh what do I think I'm proud of
01:26:16
the genes that I was given which mean
01:26:19
that I will talk to any stranger in the
01:26:23
world I will assist any old lady
01:26:26
crossing the road I will
01:26:30
give time to a band at a school down the
01:26:34
road that I happen to have seen or met
01:26:37
that could do the leg up all that kind
01:26:39
of stuff yeah I've got
01:26:41
time and
01:26:44
space to help
01:26:47
people and if you anyone you speak to
01:26:49
says that about you through any sort of
01:26:52
chapter or period of your life this
01:26:53
isn't just um
01:26:54
you and your senior years where you've
01:26:56
got more time on your hands like no one
01:26:57
will say a bad word about you everyone
01:26:59
always talks about um you know how
01:27:01
generous you've been you know with your
01:27:03
time and your experiences o over the
01:27:05
years thank you which I think is a huge
01:27:08
compliment right thank you yeah yeah and
01:27:11
um yeah did we just about see some of
01:27:13
those happy tears a second ago when you
01:27:14
were reflecting on your mom and your
01:27:17
wife that's cool I think it's a gift day
01:27:19
to be to about a cry crying is good yeah
01:27:23
crying is great uh yeah crying is good
01:27:27
yeah why not oh 100% yeah it's just um
01:27:30
well I feel like uh I'm a little bit
01:27:34
younger than you but it's just the way
01:27:35
we were sort of bought up where your
01:27:37
guys don't sort of cry or show any
01:27:38
emotion but leaning into that I think
01:27:40
especially as you get older is a really
01:27:41
good thing cool yeah all right hey Mike
01:27:44
Chan thank you so much for your time
01:27:46
today I really appreciate it um you're a
01:27:49
great New Zealander and it's been an
01:27:51
absolute honor for me uh to have you on
01:27:53
my podcast like thank you yeah
01:27:55
unbelievable it's great being here
01:27:57
thanks for the invitation
01:27:58
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