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Sonia Williams welcome to my podcast
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yeah thanks for having me this is so
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weird like um obviously it's a privilege
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to have you here because um you're an
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inspirational New Zealand businesswoman
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you know the um founder and CEO of uh
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sheries which is massive but also um
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your family it's true we are cousins um
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and I am co-founder and Co coo so work
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with other great people too but um
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that's cool yeah for sure f i I know
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that we'll get into the whole actually I
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I put on Instagram that you were coming
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and um uh I said you from shes and does
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anyone have any questions and I suppose
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this is the problem with assumption I
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ISM ches was um almost like a Netflix
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now in New Zealand where the brand
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recognition is so high that everyone
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would know what I'm talking about but a
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couple of people said oh can you know
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can you can you get her to explain sh's
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like what it is wow so maybe we'll start
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with that and we'll we'll get to the shy
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stuff later but before that we'll go
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back to Young
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Sonia my little cousin when you said
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that I was like I wonder what people
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have said no that's nice yeah no but so
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how yeah so like 10% of the population
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or something are on shies yeah we've got
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about um 700,000 investors on sheries
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and um so what it is is we call
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ourselves the wealth at um but it's
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where you can invest in um different
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investment options but really we're
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trying to remove the barriers that stand
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in the way of people um really thinking
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about their wealth and and building
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their wealth so um on the invest side
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you can invest in um a range of
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Investments with no minimum and we give
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you support and education to help you
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build your
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portfolio it's not the first time you've
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done that spill is it did it sound good
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it sounded like an elevator patch no
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it's um I mean it's just what you've
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done is just um gamechanging like I know
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the the Phrase game changer gets thrown
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around a lot but um like we're from we
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you know we're families we're from
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similar backgrounds but my dad was
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always an investor like Dad loved dad
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was always sort of anti property and
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into shares even after the 19887 Shar
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crash he was right into it but I never
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invested in in sheares until sheares
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came along because um it just seemed
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like to hard basket you need to find a
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broker you couldn't buy a portion of a
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share like you can do now like you know
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if you want to buy a share in like birsh
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he way or the video or something it's I
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don't know a th000 bucks say and now
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with shes you can just buy put a couple
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of bucks in and buy a portion of a sh
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it's it's mindblowing what you've
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done all thanks and it's true like it
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starts you kind of just start one day at
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a time but it's really you know um what
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you said there around not knowing how
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not being exposed to it like that's the
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same for me I didn't really know anyone
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that invested in shares my family didn't
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um so when you said your dad did it's
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like um even that's really cool exposure
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too and when we did our research um
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after we kind of started the business it
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was like maybe 20% of kiwi's had shares
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and of that you were most likely male
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over 60 and living in Oakland um but for
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everyone else um like I was definitely
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raised in like a family that was like
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anything about investing was about you
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know getting on the property later that
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was a lot of the advice I was given let
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let me guess worst house best street
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yeah that's it worst house
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yeah um and but it's that thing of going
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of wanting to get ahead but then
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realizing that the advice didn't suit
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today you know what that I mean we
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started sh um seven years ago and it was
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that um time of um it was the smashed
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avocado time I feel like everyone T you
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know no oh yeah Boomers Millennials
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that's what the headlines were all about
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and um but I had recently started
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working in a bank um after working in
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technology
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companies and I was learning so much
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about personal finance and things like
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that from just my colleagues General
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conversation that they were having so
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started getting interested in um
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investing messaged a few places I'd
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gotten shares actually from I used to
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work at zero and they gave all their
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teams shares as part of their package um
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but I didn't really know what that was
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or what that meant or it didn't really
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clock me as something that I was getting
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given or paid for that type of thing um
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but I did started me messaging some
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places um to try and invest and I call
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it like anti- marketing where um you can
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tell them was like don't want you as
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their customer cuz you're like you the
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don't Havey yeah yeah you're small fry
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so like it's like if um I asked my mom
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when dinner was ready when I was growing
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up she'd be like I'll just run around
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the house a few times you know just like
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you're getting told to um just be busy
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over there and then um try and forget
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about the fact that you wanted to invest
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in the first place um and so from that
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and then I guess that being the
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environment where people were looking
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for a way to get ahead um and then being
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from a technology background it was like
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imagine if we could just invest small
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amounts of money online in a really fun
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way almost like online shopping like
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everything you get access to has
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fundamentally changed because of where
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technology is I remember and this isn't
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even that long ago like but say me and
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my boyfriend wanted to go to the movies
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we used to drive to all the movies to
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just see what time a movie was on cuz we
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didn't have smartphones um whereas now
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you just look it up and you there's so
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much efficiency that kind of comes we
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fundamentally live life differently now
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some things are good about that some
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things aren't um but yeah so it's like
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there was actually no reason why it
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couldn't be more accessible or better
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those some of the barriers that stood in
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the way for people um so then after
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having that kind of idea started talking
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to some friends um and colleagues and
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that's when um through a bunch of
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different connections um ended up in a
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team um with six six of us from all a
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different range of backgrounds um who
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were all really committed to try and
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solve this problem which is how do we
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get more people um feeling empowered
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about their money and building their
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long term and giving access yeah it's um
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it's a phenomenal story but by the way
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I'm so [ __ ] proud of
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you like it's just incredible and and
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the fact that like the name [ __ ] I know
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you were quick to point out you it
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wasn't you and you alone um but the name
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was your idea and the the the you the
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seed of the idea was yours um and and
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you've gone done it you've done it
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that's amazing and still doing it like
00:06:43
yeah oh yeah I feel like you yeah so say
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it still feels like really early days
00:06:49
say it's a mountain see I I feel like
00:06:51
you you've clocked it you're at the top
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of the mountain where would you say you
00:06:53
are like base camp or yeah I'd say we're
00:06:56
in the beginning for sure cuz like the
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mission and like it's probably an
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intergenerational one like ours is to
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create financial empowerment for
00:07:04
everyone yeah and when you actually
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think about that and there's so much
00:07:07
complexity to it and um you solve it in
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one aspect but then you just see the
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more you know the more opportunities to
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keep kind of working at that same
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problem but I think it's one that will
00:07:17
keep us nerling for ages okay there's
00:07:21
there there's so much to pick around at
00:07:22
with the um the entrepreneurial stuff um
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yeah first of all let's go all the way
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back so how how what's our age Gap it's
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like 20 years what are you 30 I think
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I'm I'm uh maybe 36 36 okay so it's like
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okay so 15 years yeah so yeah we're from
00:07:38
a massive family so your dad and my mom
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are siblings and they're two of 14 it's
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a massive family and then on my mom's
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side my mom's one of
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11 oh my God so I'm like I don't think I
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knew that like it's just huge just got
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cazes and you so yeah Auntie Jenny yeah
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and they're all from the hot ofo yeah
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yeah so what did your mom do when when
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we were growing up was she she worked in
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like an accounting firm a bank no a bank
00:08:05
my mom she was a state home mom for
00:08:08
years and then when I was a kid um she
00:08:10
started working at a finance company
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okay and and she would have she probably
00:08:13
would have been doing that and she did
00:08:15
work at a bank actually yeah when she
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was um yep she worked at a bank all my
00:08:19
aunties worked um all my all the aunties
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on my mom's side work at yeah I suppose
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the reason I asked that is because I'm
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I'm trying to figure out where this um
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entrepreneurial Spirit came from so dad
00:08:29
Uncle Greg one of my faves um he what
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what did he do I was trying to think
00:08:33
about this yesterday did he make um like
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a canvas horse blankets yeah he had a
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canvas business right so he was a sort
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of an entrepreneur like it was a like a
00:08:43
home business but you know no sort of no
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sort of aspiration to scale up or
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anything just to yeah it his own
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business um and yeah it was in canvas
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manufacturing he did a bunch of stuff um
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lots of wicked projects I remember once
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um just anything out of canvas really
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like some cool shade sales always like I
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was talking to someone before I came
00:09:05
here where it was like um your school
00:09:07
holidays just like driving around and to
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go visit different jobs you know now
00:09:12
there's a lot of pressure to
00:09:16
entertain just used to go on drives so
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you're um yes you're the baby of the
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family the there's uh there's um Paul
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Yeah Anna Paul uh Anna Paul James and
00:09:29
you yeah yeah were you unplanned I feel
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there's a big gap between I think I
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think I I I don't know I haven't asked
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conversation but it's like the common
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thing that we get asked when we save our
00:09:41
siblings is like same mom same dad
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because there is quite a big age
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difference between like my older two
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siblings and then me and my younger
00:09:49
brother or my older young older younger
00:09:51
brother yeah I think your growing up I
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was definitely closer to like Paul and
00:09:55
Anna to the proximity and age and stuff
00:09:57
um but but I always remember you being
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being like just the cutest the cutest
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little kid cool and um and I used to um
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when I started working and got my first
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car um i' drive down to see your dad and
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had changed my oil and my oil filter
00:10:12
he's a great man he was definitely very
00:10:14
handy yeah and like one of those people
00:10:17
that just solves you know it's like the
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pro like however the problem gets solved
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there's just a way of doing it like no
00:10:24
matter it seemed like no matter what it
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was like I remember once I um locked my
00:10:28
keys and I my um I had to go to let a
00:10:32
sky person and at um one of my
00:10:34
colleagues houses was like one of my
00:10:35
first jobs and I pulled up and I like
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pulled up behind the sky person and then
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like left the lock the keys in my car by
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accident and they were just jammed in
00:10:43
the driveway I was like what am I going
00:10:44
to do and the sky person's like calling
00:10:46
all the customers afterwards canceling
00:10:48
it all um but Dad just came down and um
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opened the
00:10:52
car so resourceful so resourceful um
00:10:57
yeah how how is your dad so he had um
00:11:00
yeah as I said 14 14 brothers and
00:11:02
sisters in the family and um I'm not
00:11:05
sure who in the family is going to
00:11:06
listen to this podcast but Uncle Greg
00:11:08
your mom will your mom listen yeah your
00:11:09
mom will definely listen she's so
00:11:10
supportive she listens to all of them
00:11:12
but um I'd say Uncle Greg probably my
00:11:14
favorite out of all the
00:11:16
unles yeah yeah um and he he had a what
00:11:20
did he have like a stroke or a brain
00:11:21
aneurism yeah he had a brain aneurism
00:11:23
and and a stroke actually yeah when I
00:11:25
was when was that I think I think um
00:11:27
early 2000s yeah to that I would have
00:11:30
been 16 I think right yeah how was that
00:11:32
what are your Recollections of that um
00:11:34
definitely like I mean it's quite a I
00:11:38
kind I sometimes yes I was part of it
00:11:40
like it did happen to him you know and
00:11:42
he is still around um which is so great
00:11:45
because lots of people don't survive um
00:11:47
that combination or or like a brain
00:11:49
hemorrhage or a stroke as well so um but
00:11:51
I mean it was hugely lifechanging for um
00:11:55
at 16 being like um having such a a big
00:11:59
change happen especially such a health
00:12:02
issue because you got kind of pottering
00:12:04
along and then um you can just see how
00:12:07
quickly things can change yeah so that
00:12:09
was it was quite big yeah because
00:12:12
because I was an adult at the time I was
00:12:13
getting on with my my own life so mom's
00:12:15
like Oh Uncle Greg's had this thing and
00:12:16
he's in the hospital and um I'd see him
00:12:19
see him every couple of years or
00:12:20
whatever um and he he he was still the
00:12:24
same person but he wasn't the same
00:12:25
person in a lot of ways like he needed
00:12:26
enough had get tired easily needed every
00:12:29
couple of hours and just like just his
00:12:32
personality sort of DED a little bit so
00:12:33
I just wondered what it was like when
00:12:35
you're when it's your dad and you're
00:12:36
there yeah I definitely like um he you
00:12:40
know I feel um like I got lots of love
00:12:44
for all my family um and you know but he
00:12:47
taught me so much around like always so
00:12:50
witty and um you know for people who
00:12:53
have brain injuries that stuff can you
00:12:55
know you're just not as um that stuff
00:12:57
can be harder you know and does have
00:12:59
ongoing things after the injury so he's
00:13:02
quite different but I think you just
00:13:03
have to well for me anyway I just um
00:13:07
sort as like a different person you just
00:13:09
get to know the new person yeah and um
00:13:12
but yeah it felt like that was a change
00:13:14
at the time for sure yeah still a bloody
00:13:17
great person and a work sense of humor
00:13:19
as well still very funny yeah absolutely
00:13:22
so you um so not long after that you
00:13:24
left school and you you you didn't go to
00:13:26
university straight away you started
00:13:27
working what were your what were your
00:13:28
aspirations because Le's one of those
00:13:30
places it' be very easy to get a job and
00:13:32
then sort of you fall into the Le cycle
00:13:35
and never leave yeah very easy to do
00:13:38
that what what did you do out of school
00:13:40
out of school so I think like
00:13:42
um it probably you know not you like
00:13:47
that's quite a big change to happen like
00:13:48
when you're 60 I think I did lose a lot
00:13:50
of motivation or just understanding my
00:13:52
place what it what was it all about
00:13:55
maybe that's a big question um at 16 but
00:13:59
definitely know that I lost a lot of
00:14:00
motivation around school and um def
00:14:04
didn't see that as being just didn't
00:14:07
have much of an education pathway which
00:14:09
I think for people who know me now I'm
00:14:11
like one of the biggest nerds and like
00:14:13
study so hard do lots of research always
00:14:16
reading so to think that I wasn't good
00:14:18
at school um like I didn't get
00:14:20
University entrance um CU I stopped
00:14:22
going to school one of my um I played
00:14:25
lawn bows through high school um and my
00:14:28
bows coach said like please just just
00:14:30
keep doing the work just keep getting
00:14:32
the credits and we arranged it so like I
00:14:34
could get my school work um I didn't
00:14:36
have to show up to the classes I could
00:14:38
do my school work and do the credits but
00:14:39
I still was like maybe a few short at
00:14:42
the end of that process but I think I
00:14:43
remember him really saying like just
00:14:45
keep your doors open you know you got to
00:14:47
keep your doors open for um wanting to
00:14:49
go to UNI or anything like that I think
00:14:51
I remember always wanting my own
00:14:53
business um I didn't know what that was
00:14:56
um and I definitely didn't feel the pull
00:15:00
of uni like there was a little bit of
00:15:02
fomo cuz my friends were so like they
00:15:04
felt like they really knew what they
00:15:05
wanted to do and um but there was it
00:15:08
seemed maybe more that was around going
00:15:10
to a university somewhere but um like
00:15:13
just go somewhere get a ba or like it
00:15:15
was more about the experience of
00:15:17
University um whereas I probably didn't
00:15:19
have that like I didn't I liked liven I
00:15:22
um yeah there's things about it that I
00:15:24
didn't really like but I did like it I
00:15:26
went in um so After High school um
00:15:30
wrapped up I spent some time on um one
00:15:32
of my uncle's Farms um in the tanaki
00:15:35
doing some Milking for a bit and then um
00:15:38
my mom was like oh there's a job going
00:15:41
at the law firm here and so I applied
00:15:44
for that and I think um In My Memory she
00:15:47
like made me wear her her suit to the
00:15:49
interview which was just
00:15:52
like what were what what were you
00:15:55
thinking at the time just okay
00:15:59
protest I thought this was being a grown
00:16:01
up you know it's
00:16:03
like and I remember it feeling like that
00:16:06
analogy comes back to me all the time
00:16:07
when it's like when you feel like
00:16:09
something doesn't feel you you're like
00:16:11
no how can you make this you you know
00:16:12
you don't want it cuz I always think
00:16:14
like everyone else would have seen
00:16:16
that my God like 18-year-old looks
00:16:19
ridiculous um but I got the job um and
00:16:24
so I worked at a law firm in Leen for a
00:16:26
few years and then um I did some travel
00:16:31
overseas and um Wanted to then decided
00:16:35
like I wanted to go overseas and my
00:16:36
sister Anna she was she had done an
00:16:38
accounting degree and was living
00:16:40
overseas at the time and I remember
00:16:42
thinking H if I want to go overseas I
00:16:44
should go get this degree and then I can
00:16:47
go live overseas so that was really the
00:16:49
Catalyst for going to UNI but I mean I
00:16:51
worked at a call center um before that
00:16:54
in Wellington worked as a debt collector
00:16:58
um for a bit at in a call center did a
00:17:01
bunch of different like call centery
00:17:02
type jobs but but so so deep down you
00:17:04
had this sort of drive and ambition but
00:17:06
you just weren't ready to sort of like I
00:17:09
really know what it was yeah um but I
00:17:12
definitely remember um wanting you know
00:17:15
when I thought of myself I really wanted
00:17:16
my own business I didn't maybe it's like
00:17:18
an issue with authority or
00:17:20
something
00:17:22
what which I think is genetic but yeah
00:17:26
um yeah that's defitely a Williams trait
00:17:28
um
00:17:29
so why um why an Cy degree is that just
00:17:32
because you're because um Anna did that
00:17:33
your sister so yeah I think so right
00:17:36
yeah people influence people because it
00:17:39
would make sense that yeah yeah but if
00:17:40
if you knew like deep down in your soul
00:17:43
that you were destined to have a
00:17:43
business you'd think you'd you know get
00:17:45
a business degree or oh accounting's
00:17:47
great you definitely need accounting to
00:17:48
run any business but I probably wasn't
00:17:50
thinking like that at the time I did I
00:17:52
did some marketing papers as well um but
00:17:55
again I reckon it's just naivity around
00:17:59
like if you told me when I was 16 that I
00:18:02
would end up in a tech
00:18:04
company um or have a career in
00:18:07
technology I just would not have
00:18:09
believed it
00:18:11
um largely because you know if you a I
00:18:15
didn't really know those subjects
00:18:16
existed like I was far more interested I
00:18:19
wasn't one of those people that like got
00:18:21
really interested in computers and how
00:18:22
to pull them apart and um it was more
00:18:25
like MSN Messenger or um the
00:18:28
communication aspects of technology that
00:18:30
really grasped me if anything like um
00:18:34
but I Reon it comes down to like if you
00:18:36
studied science in my worldview at that
00:18:38
time I probably thought you would have
00:18:40
been able to become a science teacher I
00:18:42
think it was just a naive I didn't see
00:18:45
what I I didn't know what I didn't see
00:18:47
you know and I wasn't really exposed to
00:18:49
much of that type of thinking or broader
00:18:51
stuff you know I wonder if um part of
00:18:54
that is like coming from a small town
00:18:55
you're just not necessarily aware of the
00:18:58
the you know the bigger options or you
00:18:59
just don't allow yourself to think as
00:19:01
big as what you should yeah maybe I
00:19:03
don't know well you just don't know
00:19:04
right you know your own world view um I
00:19:06
remember someone using this analogy of
00:19:08
like um goldfish under the water and but
00:19:12
if someone came and they're all happy
00:19:14
thinking they're under the water and
00:19:15
that's the world they know but then one
00:19:17
day someone picks up the
00:19:19
Goldfish and they can see around above
00:19:21
the water and then you get put back down
00:19:23
there's no way you're just going to go
00:19:24
chill and be a goldfish under the water
00:19:26
you're going to be like what did I see
00:19:30
what did I just see I thought this was
00:19:32
everything but this you know so I do
00:19:34
think um any time like now I I think
00:19:38
like how important a spark is like just
00:19:41
to see something or to be exposed and
00:19:44
something that's a catalyst for so much
00:19:45
and sometimes you might be like oh yeah
00:19:47
doesn't clock it but you don't know what
00:19:49
you don't know and you don't know what's
00:19:50
going to like really inspire you like
00:19:53
that yeah like sh's is your first
00:19:56
business venture and it's been you know
00:19:58
it's been wildly successful it's not
00:20:00
like you're one of these entrepreneurs
00:20:01
that you know had a crack at a 100
00:20:04
different things before cracking it like
00:20:05
it's amaz you're one from one I did work
00:20:09
in a lot of other businesses yeah yeah
00:20:12
I'm downplaying what lead you up there I
00:20:14
mean but like um yeah true I haven't
00:20:17
really thought about it like that but
00:20:18
yeah oh no it's it's crazy that's not an
00:20:21
insult by the way that's a massive
00:20:22
massive compliment like yeah you're the
00:20:24
architect of this incredible brand
00:20:27
that's um just been a game changer and
00:20:28
it's um yeah it's something to be
00:20:30
celebrated I I suppose you were so busy
00:20:32
you don't stop to think about how cool
00:20:34
you
00:20:35
are I think like I do think that there's
00:20:37
these real um kind of cool and like cool
00:20:42
moments where you're like this is great
00:20:43
because it's it's what youth you know
00:20:46
when we first started lots of it was
00:20:49
like um it's lots of culture change
00:20:52
you're just helping people see life a
00:20:54
little differently like there was just a
00:20:56
stereotype that kiwis were bad at saving
00:20:59
and
00:20:59
investing and the thing with stereotypes
00:21:02
is you start to believe them yourself
00:21:04
and you start to go I'm bad at saving
00:21:06
people aren't inherently bad at stuff
00:21:08
you just you know they might not have
00:21:09
had the right environment or the right
00:21:10
spark or whatever that got them
00:21:12
interested in it so um the worst is when
00:21:15
you start believing the the thing
00:21:16
yourself like what people telling you
00:21:18
you are and like um I just love it when
00:21:21
like there's been a few times when like
00:21:23
say my nieces and nephews or random
00:21:26
people you know tell me about how they
00:21:29
invest and how they think about it now
00:21:31
and um I remember a woman when I was in
00:21:33
Le actually that a woman said um she as
00:21:35
a grandmother takes her granddaughter
00:21:37
out and they go out for coffee like or
00:21:38
go out for like a hot chug or whatever
00:21:40
um once a week and talk about their
00:21:42
shares and you go that was just so cool
00:21:45
cuz I would never have imagined that and
00:21:46
I reckon um that those are the stories
00:21:50
that I'm like yes that's really cool
00:21:52
it's really powerful and um yeah another
00:21:54
one of your cousins my sister Charlotte
00:21:56
all of her kids are into it as well
00:21:59
said her son who loves the NBA like he's
00:22:01
got shares and Nike and gets very
00:22:04
disillusioned that is you know $10
00:22:06
investment only goes up to like $14 but
00:22:09
you know um it's just a really I think
00:22:12
um healthy conversation to be having cuz
00:22:14
new zealanders we're kind of like we're
00:22:16
kind of shy and awkward people anyway
00:22:18
and when it comes to money it's like
00:22:19
just another layer of you know
00:22:22
complexness something that we were just
00:22:24
weird about it's true and then you don't
00:22:26
hear like I used to hear them Market
00:22:28
updates on the radio you know probably
00:22:30
did they do it on
00:22:32
92. which was the radio station of my
00:22:35
childhood
00:22:36
um the um you know they just read out a
00:22:40
bunch of numbers and you go like there's
00:22:43
no spark in that you know for me anyway
00:22:45
I'm like I would have had to been
00:22:46
following that story for those numbers
00:22:48
to make sense but say I'm like trying to
00:22:49
get in on that story like the double
00:22:51
dutch you know waiting waiting to for
00:22:54
when you can kind of get in and start
00:22:55
jumping it's like um was that the stuff
00:22:59
that goes on behind those numbers is
00:23:00
what's what's interesting and it's like
00:23:03
people you know you think of it like I
00:23:04
wouldn't have ever you see a house and
00:23:06
you go yeah cool that's a house but you
00:23:08
know we go to work every day people are
00:23:10
going to work every day I flew to
00:23:12
Oakland today on an A New Zealand plane
00:23:14
like these things are all really
00:23:16
tangible and part of our every day so
00:23:17
when you see the numbers going up and
00:23:19
down around these companies it's like so
00:23:22
there's so much more story behind it
00:23:24
which helps it make it feel a bit more
00:23:25
tangible so um I love like I think those
00:23:28
stories are really interesting and I
00:23:30
really love the Curiosity that that
00:23:32
Peaks yeah you're so right that's a
00:23:34
really good analogy it's almost like
00:23:35
being at a party and there's like a
00:23:36
circle of people talking and you're
00:23:38
trying to get into that Circle and you
00:23:40
just can't cuz yeah on TV news they used
00:23:42
to talk about the footsy all the time I
00:23:43
didn't even know what the foot I still
00:23:46
don't know there's so many there's so
00:23:47
many um different like bits of jargon
00:23:50
and um an allergies and and things like
00:23:54
that so um yeah it's just helpful to be
00:23:56
like actually you can still talk like
00:23:59
you know what you're doing but it can
00:24:00
also be heard from everyone and it's
00:24:03
just about like breaking down different
00:24:04
things but yeah um I mean that's why
00:24:07
it's like even if someone like I
00:24:10
wouldn't say I was super into Finance or
00:24:11
or money or things like that but um it
00:24:15
is really interesting to me the stories
00:24:17
and all that part of it and I think
00:24:19
helping people get involved in that and
00:24:21
it's also really interesting to me what
00:24:23
um change it can make in people's lives
00:24:26
when they feel really in control of the
00:24:29
and cuz it's a lot to do with choices
00:24:31
and living the life that you want to
00:24:33
live and things like that yeah um yeah
00:24:36
that's cool we will get to the shy Stu
00:24:40
first of all um oh congratulations uh
00:24:42
you're you're a mom now you became a mom
00:24:44
in November 2022 um to uh baby meow yeah
00:24:49
so what what's my role there what am I
00:24:52
does
00:24:53
that I'm not an uncle a no no like a
00:24:56
second cousin is a big we just do like
00:24:59
cies or you know like it's just an
00:25:01
extension of like our relationship um
00:25:04
but I'm so much older than you I feel
00:25:05
like I should be an uncle you want to be
00:25:06
an uncle you can be an uncle you can be
00:25:08
an uncle um that's how's that working
00:25:10
out for
00:25:11
you it's such such a um huge change e
00:25:15
like um I think
00:25:20
um you know
00:25:22
like what do I want to say about that
00:25:25
like love having a daughter um and she's
00:25:28
such a joy like she is really amazing
00:25:30
and she's changed our lives in so many
00:25:32
ways and it's also like a really
00:25:34
humbling experience um I grew up in Liv
00:25:38
you know where um there's a huge High
00:25:40
teenage um pregnancy um right so like
00:25:45
you kind of grow up and your whole life
00:25:46
you're like trying not to get pregnant
00:25:48
you I agree I was talking to M about
00:25:51
this the other day it was like um yeah
00:25:52
when you're 16 17 18 it's like the you
00:25:55
think it's going to be the easiest thing
00:25:57
like yeah thing just like almost eye
00:25:59
contact with someone and you're going to
00:26:00
get them pregnant and then when you
00:26:01
become an adult you realize it's
00:26:02
actually way more complex than that it
00:26:04
is so true um so we did have a bit of a
00:26:06
journey um to getting um our daughter
00:26:10
and like part of it is like what that um
00:26:13
and so now feel on the other side of
00:26:15
that like so grateful to have her in our
00:26:16
lives and I think like what that
00:26:18
experience has shown to me is
00:26:20
like just how amazing um every moment
00:26:26
that it takes someone to end up and have
00:26:28
a baby like how many complex steps there
00:26:31
are involved in that whole process but
00:26:34
how the default is that that goes well
00:26:36
like it's just pure magic really like I
00:26:38
mean if there's scientists listening
00:26:39
they're like well it's science
00:26:41
but did you did you guys need um I we
00:26:44
did end up getting some support yeah
00:26:46
yeah um but yeah and I won't dig into
00:26:50
that too much but I think like for
00:26:52
anyone where there's um you know I know
00:26:55
there was lots of times when I'd listen
00:26:56
to stories and be like well I'd want to
00:26:58
be as a mom you know and um and so I
00:27:01
always make sure I like share that that
00:27:03
can be hard and that and acknowledge
00:27:04
that there's space there and I um I've
00:27:06
shared that there's the stories that
00:27:08
really helped me um through that and and
00:27:10
helped to see that there is a space for
00:27:13
like when it's hard because there can be
00:27:14
times when it is you know really hard
00:27:16
and um I know you know you ask people
00:27:19
you know do you want to have kids and um
00:27:21
lots of people are like oh yeah when
00:27:22
this timing but I think it just like
00:27:24
opened my eyes that it's really not
00:27:25
always up to you
00:27:28
um I think like family is really
00:27:31
important and like we're from a huge
00:27:32
family right like um I remember it was a
00:27:35
running joke for some of my friends like
00:27:37
would just be walking down the street
00:27:38
they're like is that your cousin is that
00:27:39
your
00:27:40
cousin and I'm like I think so like I
00:27:42
don't know all of them you
00:27:44
know yeah we are varing different um
00:27:47
relationships but um we've always really
00:27:50
been brought up to Value family and
00:27:52
being part of something so um I am
00:27:55
really stoked that I get to um extend
00:27:57
that um within our little family unit as
00:28:00
well it feels like a real privilege to
00:28:01
me yeah yeah that's cool um I'm glad you
00:28:04
had success with that as someone that's
00:28:05
um yeah been on that fertility treadmill
00:28:07
as well and you hear the statistics and
00:28:09
then um yeah J and I when we went
00:28:13
together we had numerous friends of I
00:28:14
I've sort of like blocked that corner of
00:28:16
my mind out now but um yeah with each
00:28:20
with each fail you almost get like a
00:28:22
gamblers mentality where you think this
00:28:24
has got to be the time like odds would
00:28:25
suggest but um it didn't work out for us
00:28:28
but I'm so pleased it worked out for you
00:28:30
yeah meanwhile going through all this
00:28:32
you're running this um half a billion
00:28:33
dollar company as well like it's a lot
00:28:36
to take on it's
00:28:39
hes
00:28:40
um yeah I don't know what to say about
00:28:43
it wasn't really a question no but I I
00:28:46
get what you're saying like there is
00:28:49
um yeah it can it can there's a lot to
00:28:52
juggle in there that's for sure and um
00:28:55
but like any you know and there's time
00:28:58
definitely when I'm like what you know
00:29:01
you can't do it all and I like the thing
00:29:03
I like to tell myself now is like when
00:29:04
you have to make a it's awesome to have
00:29:06
choice and to choose things in your life
00:29:09
like I choose to go to a job that I love
00:29:12
and to work with great people and to
00:29:14
build something that I think is really
00:29:15
special like I'm so stoked that my job
00:29:18
gives me that and that I'm able to do
00:29:20
that and then um I also get to choose to
00:29:22
like spend time um with my family and
00:29:25
make sure that's a really big part of my
00:29:26
life because it is that something like
00:29:28
really grounding to me and then whenever
00:29:30
it feels hard or the choices feel like
00:29:33
and I'm starting to get like negative on
00:29:34
the choices like I'm like God I've got
00:29:37
be in a 100 places at once I like um
00:29:39
just remind myself that like every time
00:29:42
you have to make a choice that's like
00:29:44
how you show up it's like every decision
00:29:46
you make is asserting yourself in the
00:29:49
world cuz you can try and do it all but
00:29:52
it's when it's really hard and you're
00:29:53
having to make trade-offs you're like
00:29:54
well who do who do I want to be you know
00:29:56
and it's like sometimes you have to say
00:29:58
no to stuff but I always think like
00:30:01
that's you when you're doing that and
00:30:03
you're having to say no you're just
00:30:05
showing up as who you are and you're
00:30:06
making like a values choice or you um
00:30:09
and I find that like as quite a
00:30:11
empowering way to think about it why
00:30:13
didn't you say no to the conference
00:30:14
today you just came from a conference
00:30:16
and you told I can't remember what it
00:30:17
was but it sound to me it sound like the
00:30:19
world's most boring you're on a panel
00:30:21
what's up for I was on a panel um yeah
00:30:24
it was the financial um Services
00:30:27
conference and I was on a panel about
00:30:29
you and I have very different
00:30:33
lives and again one of those ones that
00:30:35
probably if I thought hey would I be on
00:30:38
that
00:30:39
um uh you know these are rooms that I
00:30:43
think when we first started shies and
00:30:44
even now I get um where it's like when
00:30:47
you create something from the
00:30:49
outside sometimes um like I never saw
00:30:53
myself in that industry but we are in it
00:30:56
and we're in it and we're changing it
00:30:57
and we're part of it and we're
00:30:58
partnering with people in it and they're
00:31:01
actually you know like it's um so I
00:31:03
actually really like being in those
00:31:04
rooms now and um cuz I think a it's
00:31:08
really interesting and people are all
00:31:09
trying to do good stuff around helping
00:31:12
um shape financial services for Al and
00:31:16
make a real difference for people and um
00:31:18
then I like being in those rooms because
00:31:20
sometimes we share a different
00:31:21
perspective and um I think we're so
00:31:24
close to our customers and we're so
00:31:25
close to like how things might
00:31:28
um play out for people that I think like
00:31:31
there would have been a time when I
00:31:32
wanted nothing more than for people in
00:31:35
those rooms to have H that voice so it's
00:31:37
like it's also a real privilege to um be
00:31:40
in that representing our customers and
00:31:42
our team so um do you do you do you
00:31:45
still suffer um imposter syndrome at all
00:31:48
or not really um I definitely suffer
00:31:51
from like confidence issues I try not to
00:31:53
use um imposter syndrome I don't know
00:31:56
why cuz but it's like I attached to you
00:31:58
know it's like if you tell yourself
00:32:00
something enough you'll believe it but
00:32:02
it's like so I like to say like I'm you
00:32:04
know I might be having a bit of a low
00:32:06
confidence or something um that day and
00:32:09
definitely cuz it's like exam mentality
00:32:11
when you're like public speaking or
00:32:14
something you kind of go straight to
00:32:16
what's the question they're going to ask
00:32:17
that I don't know the answer to
00:32:20
but like but most of the time people
00:32:22
just want you know especially in those
00:32:24
settings like people want really good
00:32:26
conversation they're not going to ask
00:32:27
you the thing that you have like a
00:32:28
really [ __ ] answer about ask oh no no I
00:32:31
just wonder because like you these rooms
00:32:33
that you're going into you definitely
00:32:34
you you've got the chops like you
00:32:35
deserve to be there like you've proved
00:32:37
yourself but I just wonder if if there's
00:32:39
times where I don't
00:32:41
know I think all of us have those
00:32:43
moments we where you go back to being a
00:32:44
kid again so you're just like little
00:32:46
Sonia from Livin and you know like but
00:32:49
no you definitely do deserve to be in
00:32:51
these places where did that where did
00:32:53
that reframing thing come from you know
00:32:55
you talked about not you know not
00:32:57
calling it a poster syndrome and oh is
00:33:00
that from like a podcast or a book or
00:33:02
yeah I think that I definitely picked it
00:33:04
up from somewhere it could have been um
00:33:06
I've got like an amazing network of
00:33:08
women that I catch up with on a regular
00:33:11
basis and it could have come from there
00:33:13
I think one of them might have shared it
00:33:14
there or it could have come from a
00:33:15
podcast but I remember um I think there
00:33:17
was an article actually about it um
00:33:20
which we all read There was just around
00:33:22
like changing that um and because it's
00:33:26
not
00:33:28
you know that's often something that's
00:33:29
said or it's your problem but like
00:33:31
confidence is one thing and then like I
00:33:34
do think that when you hold a space or
00:33:35
you um that you should think about how
00:33:37
people belong in that space and how do
00:33:39
you create a sense of comfort like this
00:33:41
room is very
00:33:43
comfortable so you've created that yeah
00:33:46
it's the it's the AC candle and it
00:33:49
smells delightful so um what's the
00:33:51
what's the um the biggest surprise about
00:33:55
being a mom so far you think oh um
00:33:58
surprise biggest
00:34:00
surprise um definitely like the change
00:34:03
in everything like I I felt like I
00:34:05
wasn't you know I'd been around people
00:34:07
who had had kids before and um but I
00:34:10
just wasn't aware like how fundamentally
00:34:12
it would change your life and you're in
00:34:15
a new life and I think there is um this
00:34:18
thing around
00:34:20
like um I did have on you know the it's
00:34:23
the confidence it's like I went from
00:34:25
being at a job where where I go every
00:34:27
day feeling like I really had gotten
00:34:30
like I knew how to operate there and
00:34:32
then to be completely responsible for
00:34:34
someone and something and a job that
00:34:37
you've never done before actually just
00:34:39
like a comfort zone comfort zone being a
00:34:42
CEO to know and I remember someone said
00:34:45
to me like oh you'll find it real easy
00:34:46
and then I didn't I found it really hard
00:34:49
and um I was like oh but everyone finds
00:34:51
this easy and it turns out no one finds
00:34:53
it then again I was like why aren't I
00:34:56
finding this easy um everyone said theyd
00:34:58
find it easy or that I'd find it easy
00:35:00
but I did like find aspects of it really
00:35:03
difficult like is it changes your
00:35:05
relationship and um you know it just
00:35:08
changes so much like who you are in the
00:35:10
world and I think um you know coming
00:35:12
back to the identity thing um I was
00:35:16
still maybe because it had T you know i'
00:35:20
I'd almost tried to like make being a
00:35:22
mom not something that I attached to so
00:35:25
then when I was a mom and I had to be a
00:35:26
mom maybe bring the Imposter syndrome
00:35:28
even though I said I reframe that it's
00:35:30
kind of like going like um having the
00:35:33
confidence to claim that and be like I
00:35:35
am I think for a while it took me a
00:35:37
while to go yeah this is I'm a mom now
00:35:40
yeah awesome you are and are you
00:35:41
enjoying that role yeah it's great yeah
00:35:44
are you good at it I hope so I try
00:35:46
really hard
00:35:48
I I do try hard yeah um yeah so and so
00:35:53
you're back at work now we got lots of
00:35:55
great support yeah yeah well there's
00:35:56
that saying it takes a
00:35:58
um so your partner Ben is he is he
00:36:01
taking care of the home duties or you
00:36:02
have like yeah yeah he's largely doing
00:36:04
that and we also get some support um a
00:36:07
few days a week as well which is helpful
00:36:10
yes how did you guys meet we metet
00:36:12
through work but he's also from um Lin
00:36:15
well he's from white toy Beach oh
00:36:18
actually is he oh my God so he knows
00:36:21
that other uncle atie that live out
00:36:23
there
00:36:25
right Robin and John yeah yeah um so
00:36:30
yeah he's from the yeah our family for
00:36:32
anyone list our family owns the horor
00:36:34
fina there's Williams everywhere some of
00:36:37
them have different names but we're all
00:36:39
over the place I wow white literally
00:36:42
nobody's from Whitey Beach I know your
00:36:44
brother was living there for a while
00:36:45
though wasn't he yeah yeah and my mom
00:36:47
was there yeah amazing did you know each
00:36:49
other were you like like childhood
00:36:50
sweets no I think um he knew one of our
00:36:53
cousins or a few of our cousins from the
00:36:54
beach um and um but he was a little bit
00:36:58
older than me so we didn't cross over at
00:37:00
school or anything but we met um at when
00:37:04
I was studying and this was probably
00:37:06
that the job that changed my career was
00:37:08
I got a like a just an assistant job or
00:37:11
associate job like an office job at um a
00:37:14
web design company he was working there
00:37:16
and we met through there um cuz I work
00:37:18
parttime there while I was at Uni cuz
00:37:21
he's like um a designer an artist yeah
00:37:23
did he come up with the the pineapple um
00:37:26
he came up with fruit the fruit the
00:37:28
fruit and then it evolved into the
00:37:31
pineapple yeah pineapple the um the
00:37:33
she's logo all right let's get into some
00:37:35
Shey stuff okay um oh okay now one last
00:37:38
one before we move on to that What's um
00:37:40
what do you think was harder first year
00:37:41
of business or first year of parenting
00:37:43
first year of parenting really
00:37:47
yeah like I would like the bit the like
00:37:50
the side of the business that you were
00:37:52
doing like the magnitude of that and
00:37:54
we'll get to all this there must there
00:37:56
were like so many hurdles and so many
00:37:58
obstacles to overcome parenting surely
00:38:01
you know those obstacles are going to
00:38:02
come you know you're going to be you
00:38:04
know a awake through the night and you
00:38:07
yeah it's just hard I don't know yeah I
00:38:09
just found it really hard and it is hard
00:38:12
and hard in different ways I guess like
00:38:14
I reckon like
00:38:17
um you can like think and work through
00:38:20
any problem
00:38:22
oh maybe that applies to being a mom as
00:38:24
well but like I found that fish year of
00:38:27
business really
00:38:29
exciting
00:38:31
yeah thanks for that it's refreshingly
00:38:33
honest yeah no no no it's cool that's
00:38:36
interesting it's um it's just hard for
00:38:39
different reasons yeah yeah yeah but a
00:38:41
lot of people probably wouldn't want to
00:38:42
admit that you know how you were saying
00:38:43
no you know how you were saying before
00:38:44
like everyone said oh it's easy you'll
00:38:46
be natural whatever and I think um yeah
00:38:49
a lot of women who become are lucky
00:38:51
enough to become Ms probably feel really
00:38:52
bummed out because they're like you
00:38:53
everyone said it was going to be this
00:38:54
and that's not and I suppose everyone's
00:38:56
um joury on in that front is different
00:38:59
yeah yeah yeah so I found this photo and
00:39:01
they say a picture paints a thousand
00:39:03
words yeah what is that what is
00:39:07
that that is our founding team yeah
00:39:12
people who probably at this point we'
00:39:14
maybe been working together for
00:39:17
like two or three months um and now
00:39:22
they're probably some of the most
00:39:24
important relationships I've got in my
00:39:26
life
00:39:27
does does the guy turn it around so I
00:39:29
can see it the guy second to right does
00:39:31
he used to wear mozimo mozimo hodies I
00:39:33
think he
00:39:34
does he probably looks exactly the same
00:39:37
M yeah um he probably still wears yeah
00:39:40
he's wearing shorts I don't think I've
00:39:41
ever like I've probably seen him in
00:39:42
Pence like three times so is that like
00:39:44
one of the one of the original Shear's
00:39:47
like promo shots or whatever you want to
00:39:49
call it like I think this was for um a
00:39:51
media story someone came and took this
00:39:54
like maybe it's for like d post or
00:39:55
something yeah yeah I found it on old
00:39:57
stuff article yeah that could be it yeah
00:39:59
and um they just said Oh Come and stand
00:40:02
in this Alleyway and look you know like
00:40:04
you're doing something special which we
00:40:07
were um and but probably didn't know at
00:40:11
that point how big it was going to
00:40:12
become I think we were always um really
00:40:16
ambitious um but there was no way you
00:40:18
could you would have I mean everyone
00:40:19
that has like a startup has Ambitions
00:40:21
right but there's no it must have ex by
00:40:24
by now today like it must have exceeded
00:40:25
expectations back then sure
00:40:28
or no I think um yes in some ways and no
00:40:32
in others like a um I mean we're like
00:40:36
I'm definitely stoked with where it's at
00:40:39
and like it's great because lots of
00:40:40
people as you say have ideas they have
00:40:43
all the things um but it's like it all
00:40:45
needs to come together to
00:40:48
um to become what it is but I think you
00:40:51
know it's like this group of people like
00:40:53
so smart so and you kind of go like at
00:40:56
this time when we were like raising
00:41:00
money for shares and um trying to get
00:41:03
people to believe in that ambition or
00:41:05
their aspiration that we have like lots
00:41:07
of people had problems with it being six
00:41:10
of us and they're like Well because most
00:41:11
businesses fall apart because there's
00:41:14
relationship issues you know and stuff
00:41:16
like that but I think like maybe that's
00:41:17
the difference between like being a team
00:41:19
from day one where I think Partnerships
00:41:22
can break down because they can be like
00:41:24
my way your way blah blah blah and I
00:41:27
only know it this way you know for
00:41:29
example but it's like the way that this
00:41:31
team operates like we got to set in
00:41:33
place real teamwork principles like we
00:41:35
did our
00:41:35
values um of how we wanted to work
00:41:38
together we spent time doing that stuff
00:41:40
of like what we were building so um I
00:41:42
have so much respect for all of these
00:41:45
people like some of the
00:41:46
smartest um most ambitious and like now
00:41:49
we've been through so much together like
00:41:51
ups and downs and um like people used to
00:41:55
say like Leon always tells the story
00:41:56
like people used to say um you know for
00:41:59
us it was like wacka all like you can't
00:42:01
something bad might happen but it's very
00:42:02
rare to get all of us down at
00:42:06
once the thing with with um you with
00:42:08
business with if you got two people
00:42:10
someone might go it's just too hard and
00:42:12
then the whole thing could end up
00:42:13
falling over but with sex yeah yeah and
00:42:16
like we might come back and be like oh
00:42:17
that was so tough and then people who wi
00:42:19
at that meeting being like Oh but
00:42:20
something good happened over here you
00:42:22
know and um and just people see the joy
00:42:25
in different things and people see the
00:42:27
easy in different things and the hard in
00:42:29
different things and just it just so
00:42:31
happens like um you know I don't like I
00:42:35
don't I it wasn't like planned hard out
00:42:38
how we all came together um yeah okay
00:42:41
well let's yeah let's get into let's get
00:42:43
into that story so um yes so so you and
00:42:47
your partner being um you're going out
00:42:49
for dinner this was the smash era yeah
00:42:52
and you you we that dinner was going to
00:42:54
cost 50 bucks and you were like after I
00:42:55
there was there was something we could
00:42:56
do with the 50 bucks
00:42:57
and that's sort of how the idea of shes
00:42:59
came about yeah and you came up with the
00:43:02
name
00:43:03
shees but see a lot of people have a
00:43:05
good idea but then you realize just the
00:43:07
work that's going to go into it or the
00:43:09
problems you're going to encounter going
00:43:10
into it so how do you go from having
00:43:11
this idea which is a great idea um to
00:43:14
actually making it happen yeah what
00:43:16
happens next and then yeah someone made
00:43:19
a joke it's like do the most so you can
00:43:21
do the least it's like oh it's so hard
00:43:22
to invest oh why don't you just like
00:43:24
make this company
00:43:27
it's like it's on the one hand you that
00:43:29
does seem but it's like I'm going to
00:43:30
have to go to work anyway so it's
00:43:33
like might as well um work on something
00:43:35
really interesting yeah so yeah so so
00:43:38
you who's Brooke Brooke she is here and
00:43:42
she's one of the three and co-founders
00:43:44
as well how it all came about was um I
00:43:47
told Ben about the idea and he said um
00:43:49
he encouraged me to talk to more people
00:43:51
about it and um why just to make sure it
00:43:55
was a good idea or just um I think no it
00:43:59
was like we need like cuz it's just like
00:44:02
the different set of skills and um I
00:44:04
then got introduced to someone at
00:44:07
Leighton and I worked on projects
00:44:09
together at Q bank and um someone said
00:44:12
oh Leon knows about investing go you
00:44:13
should cheat to him and we were already
00:44:15
working on stuff together so I said oh
00:44:17
can you know should we can I talk to you
00:44:19
about investing and he had a club he
00:44:21
started an investing Club when he was 18
00:44:24
I think with like 13 of his friends and
00:44:26
family where they all put put away $50 a
00:44:28
week and um they started investing in
00:44:32
different things I heard this like hers
00:44:34
of cash yeah he's from har so it was
00:44:36
like the first investment very similar
00:44:37
to where it's like very typical to
00:44:39
invest in a cow or cow invest in what
00:44:42
you know yeah yeah um and that's kind of
00:44:44
grown over time and then um I think
00:44:47
simultaneously him and Brooke um who are
00:44:51
now married but at the time um they were
00:44:54
dating
00:44:55
um more seriously in dating probably in
00:44:59
a serious relationship um and Brooke I
00:45:03
had heard about Brooke and that
00:45:06
um she had built her career at KI bank
00:45:09
and then went to zero and I'd almost
00:45:10
done the opposite Built My Career at
00:45:12
zero and then went to Kiwi bank and so
00:45:14
everyone was like oh you know Brooke you
00:45:16
know Brooke you know but I didn't know
00:45:17
Brooke and and they were like oh you
00:45:21
guys you guys would get along I can't
00:45:22
believe you don't know each other and
00:45:24
then um we'd met maybe a few times um
00:45:28
and Leon said I reckon Brooke would love
00:45:29
to work on this too and um and then and
00:45:33
she's amazing they like as I said
00:45:35
everyone else I'm pretty gushy now but
00:45:37
um like then Martin and um Leighton were
00:45:41
in a brass band together and Richard and
00:45:44
Martin were in a tech consultancy
00:45:46
together and so um Leighton you know
00:45:49
said I think they always wanted to do
00:45:51
something they always wanted to build a
00:45:53
business and so there was real momentum
00:45:55
around wanting to have your own business
00:45:56
and and I had like thrown around a lot
00:45:58
of ideas and tried to get stuff going um
00:46:02
but it hadn't really become anything and
00:46:05
so um just ideas at that point but not
00:46:08
nothing where you kind like I'm actually
00:46:09
going to put some more effort in here um
00:46:12
and like Richard and Martin had done you
00:46:15
know similar work they were often built
00:46:17
like bought in to support startups to
00:46:19
like scale their Tech infrastructure and
00:46:23
um had such good
00:46:25
reputations and um
00:46:27
um so the fact that you know everyone
00:46:31
was kind of keen to do something
00:46:34
everyone's really like impact driven and
00:46:36
Purpose Driven and um it just so
00:46:39
happened that there was a real kind of
00:46:41
nice crossover of things that we really
00:46:43
valued but also real like difference and
00:46:45
discipline so um lots of people were
00:46:48
like left to just get on with it or um
00:46:51
you know together like everyone was
00:46:53
really um contributing something so
00:46:55
different right so
00:46:58
yeah like but I mean I I was trying to
00:47:00
avoid saying that because it's like so
00:47:01
much of it as crossover cuz you are all
00:47:04
in each other stuff yeah but I suppose
00:47:06
you need the power of sex that means you
00:47:08
can get sex as much stuff done you know
00:47:10
you're both working on the same project
00:47:11
right yeah so um there was like a lot of
00:47:14
collaboration but there's like a real
00:47:16
respect of each other and each other's
00:47:18
skill sets I guess and what everyone
00:47:20
brings to the table but um you know now
00:47:24
like it really taught me the power of
00:47:26
teamwork and everything and like you
00:47:29
talk about people having great ideas and
00:47:30
not getting off the ground and I think
00:47:33
um the first thing I would say is like
00:47:36
just start talking to people about it
00:47:38
and um cuz people bring their own
00:47:40
momentum to something and um if you
00:47:44
can't get people excited about your idea
00:47:47
then you're probably not going to get
00:47:48
customers excited about your idea you
00:47:51
know it's like actually it's um if
00:47:54
people aren't going to work on it and
00:47:55
see the power I'm working on it and they
00:47:57
don't see the value in working on it
00:47:59
then it's going to be a far harder sell
00:48:00
to get
00:48:01
people um sometimes it's good that not a
00:48:04
ideas come to the
00:48:06
light is there anyone else out there
00:48:08
that could be listening to this that
00:48:10
could have been like the seventh founder
00:48:11
or the eighth founder anyone that you
00:48:13
invited in early on and that they
00:48:15
weren't into it we had so much support
00:48:18
um and have done so yes like we're the
00:48:20
founding team but there's like been so
00:48:22
many people um that have contributed and
00:48:25
shes wouldn't be what it is today
00:48:27
without them so yeah definitely there's
00:48:29
people that aren't in the photo you know
00:48:31
that were there and um helping us um
00:48:35
yeah so did did you did you all have to
00:48:37
like put in some money initially like
00:48:39
how did you like how did you how did you
00:48:41
get off the ground you know on like day
00:48:43
one yeah we um didn't we worked on it um
00:48:49
and so day one we were we like doing a
00:48:52
little bit of stuff parttime but we did
00:48:54
into an accelerator program there was
00:48:56
one running um and I think kiwi bank and
00:49:00
zero had both sponsored it so when we
00:49:02
said that we had been accepted into this
00:49:05
um program they ended up just saying the
00:49:08
program is for 3 months and how about
00:49:10
instead of resigning you guys um this
00:49:12
was Brook Laden and I how about you guys
00:49:15
um just take leave like take extended
00:49:18
leave and then if it doesn't work out
00:49:19
you can come back and oh that's so
00:49:21
generous so generous it's amazing it's
00:49:24
really really cool wow but it also put a
00:49:26
time period it was like this thing needs
00:49:27
to show legs in 3 months cuz that's our
00:49:30
decision- making point you can't you you
00:49:33
can't do anything in 3 months you you
00:49:35
can build a whole business we did yeah
00:49:39
wow yeah it just the whole the whole
00:49:42
thing and again like from the
00:49:45
perspective of where we're sitting now
00:49:46
like it's you can sort of reverse
00:49:47
engineer what you what you've done but
00:49:49
I'm imagine you three sitting in this
00:49:51
office room I just don't know where you
00:49:53
even start you know the whole thing it
00:49:56
just seems daunting like such a daunting
00:49:59
like it's it's phenomenal I'm an a of
00:50:01
what you guys have done it's incredible
00:50:03
I think it's like um maybe it's called
00:50:05
like strategy and action you just start
00:50:07
doing
00:50:09
stuff One Foot In Front of the other and
00:50:12
and then the plan reveals itself yeah CU
00:50:15
you before this you you researched hard
00:50:17
you spoke to like thousands of people
00:50:19
yeah um yeah I mean it's a good idea
00:50:22
there's no doubt about it but like was
00:50:23
there resistance from um you know people
00:50:26
that had strangle hold over the sort of
00:50:28
like stock Brokers for example and no
00:50:30
cuz they weren't serving this audience
00:50:33
yeah but you think they'd want to
00:50:33
protect what they had and but you but at
00:50:36
that stage it was like we were serving
00:50:39
people who weren't being served yeah
00:50:42
like that's changing now
00:50:46
um
00:50:49
but I don't I think um people were
00:50:53
actually really like had lots of advice
00:50:56
for us people were really open with us I
00:50:59
think they didn't necessarily see us
00:51:01
competing um with
00:51:03
them yeah you've done so well are you
00:51:07
familiar with um like Napoleon Hill no
00:51:10
Napoleon Hill he's like um he was like a
00:51:13
like a finance writer from probably like
00:51:14
a hundred years ago his his big book is
00:51:16
one called Think and Grow Rich and I
00:51:18
wondered if you've heard of him because
00:51:19
he's got a thing um which he talks about
00:51:20
called The Mastermind group and it's
00:51:22
basically you know how everyone would
00:51:24
say six Founders is too much he sort of
00:51:26
says opposite like get get your
00:51:27
Mastermind group together um which it
00:51:29
sounds like you guys have accidentally
00:51:31
sort of done yeah yeah and I think like
00:51:36
um I think it's true for like now maybe
00:51:40
like um if I think of like something
00:51:42
I've changed like through this
00:51:43
experience is really
00:51:45
like how important it is how other
00:51:47
people are just so important in your
00:51:49
life and so um impactful and you go yeah
00:51:52
it's like there's no way it would be
00:51:53
what it is without the team and also now
00:51:55
the team that has grown and um everyone
00:51:59
contributes something so hard like to
00:52:00
the business and um especially the size
00:52:03
that is you can't be across everything
00:52:05
and so you've got these amazing people
00:52:07
with great ideas there's probably lots
00:52:08
of little groups like that um throughout
00:52:11
the business now and then there's also
00:52:13
people like outside of the business that
00:52:15
help you know help me out personally or
00:52:17
help um the group out but yeah I think
00:52:21
maybe I thought being independent was
00:52:23
really important um how do you mean just
00:52:27
like I always thought that was a value
00:52:28
you know I do think it's important to be
00:52:29
independent but um I think now um this
00:52:35
whole experience has like crystallized
00:52:36
the importance of like sharing an
00:52:38
experience with others and that's way
00:52:40
more fun isn't it so much more fun and
00:52:43
yeah there stuff you know it's like
00:52:46
um like high trust really high trust so
00:52:49
like maybe that's it maybe like learn to
00:52:51
trust other people but it's so you got
00:52:53
to just like go all in you know we
00:52:55
already are so
00:52:57
anyway oh my god um got must have been
00:53:01
terrifying early on though was there um
00:53:04
cuz you hear about companies um I've
00:53:06
just been just finished reading the
00:53:07
audio book called um that will never
00:53:09
happen I think it's called it's the
00:53:10
Netflix story from one of the founders
00:53:12
of Netflix and early on like they they
00:53:14
weren't making any money there was one
00:53:15
year they lost like 50 million same
00:53:17
about Uber you you hear about Uber I
00:53:19
don't think Uber's ever made a profit
00:53:20
yet were you guys like like were you
00:53:22
making money from day one or no did you
00:53:25
lose money in those early years Y and so
00:53:28
um but how much how much you you losing
00:53:29
in those early years I won't go into um
00:53:32
specifics but yeah you are investing um
00:53:36
into a future you're building an asset
00:53:38
that you will continue to sell you're
00:53:39
doing you're doing that cuz you're
00:53:40
confident it's going to work and it's
00:53:42
going to yeah
00:53:44
yeah that's so such a scary mindset to
00:53:46
get into that because it sort of goes
00:53:47
against everything that
00:53:49
you you sort of instinctively think I
00:53:52
guess yeah I think um but it is just
00:53:55
about
00:53:57
saying that
00:54:00
um it is and it isn't I'm trying to
00:54:02
think of an analogy but I don't have one
00:54:04
popping into my mind um off the bat but
00:54:07
it really is like you're creating
00:54:08
something you've got to invest in it
00:54:10
today and people you know we did raise
00:54:12
money um and people invested in helping
00:54:16
us kind of get that off the ground and
00:54:17
build that into something and then um it
00:54:20
has allowed us to really build stuff
00:54:22
that we wouldn't have like otherwise
00:54:24
we'd just be waiting you know and um
00:54:27
whereas we we did you know create value
00:54:30
and we do um that grows all the
00:54:33
time you have in those early years you
00:54:35
have like massive moments of self-doubt
00:54:37
or like that kept you awake at night or
00:54:39
not
00:54:43
really I can't think of any there
00:54:45
probably
00:54:46
is probably is but I probably get more
00:54:49
nervous about like something like this
00:54:51
or um like a public speaking thing then
00:54:55
showing up and doing the job job cuz you
00:54:57
just do it you just do or you work with
00:55:00
people amazing and and our obstacles you
00:55:02
just face them as they present
00:55:04
themselves yeah so how many staff now
00:55:07
how many staff at she has this um we've
00:55:08
got over
00:55:09
160 do you know most people's names yeah
00:55:12
do you yeah do you yeah do you actually
00:55:15
yeah you don't have your own elevator to
00:55:17
the top
00:55:18
floor you got your own bathroom right
00:55:20
elevator's always broken actually so you
00:55:22
do get lots of time together it wow um
00:55:26
yeah I suppose when it's your day to-day
00:55:27
you don't sort of think about it but um
00:55:29
yeah do you have moments where where you
00:55:31
walk in and you look around and you see
00:55:32
all the people and and think you know
00:55:34
I've been responsible for creating jobs
00:55:36
for this many people and I've you know
00:55:38
oh yeah definitely and I think that's
00:55:40
the thing like there's lots of like what
00:55:43
I thought it would be like and I think
00:55:46
um maybe it's a it comes back to like
00:55:49
that thing of going actually when you're
00:55:51
creating something with people you get a
00:55:53
chance to create it how you want it to
00:55:55
be and yes could be like you know what
00:55:58
did I think what I what did I think it
00:56:00
would look like to walk into a you know
00:56:02
like maybe like the like I don't know
00:56:05
why about the devil we PR you know like
00:56:07
walking in like did I think that being a
00:56:08
boss would be like that you know and I'm
00:56:10
like is it not like that briskly walking
00:56:12
in someone's reading your messages I
00:56:15
don't know why um that popped into my
00:56:18
mind maybe it was a meme on my Instagram
00:56:19
today or something but it's like
00:56:21
actually you get to create no one tells
00:56:24
you what you know like if you like you
00:56:27
just get a chance to really create it
00:56:29
how you want it and I I would hope that
00:56:32
um like anyone would describe us as
00:56:33
being like really accessible like I feel
00:56:37
like we've got really good connections
00:56:38
across the business we are in the
00:56:41
business we work on around the place we
00:56:44
get involved with everyone like I don't
00:56:46
I don't think that's our style that type
00:56:48
of leadership and um I think it's better
00:56:50
for shies like we have context to learn
00:56:53
and context to
00:56:54
share and like I learn a lot from
00:56:57
everyone that we work with um because
00:57:00
they see things day to day that I'm just
00:57:02
not a part of and they have different
00:57:04
expertise but at the same time like I
00:57:05
might have context from where I've hung
00:57:07
out for that day that I can then come
00:57:08
back in so um I think that yeah like
00:57:14
it's like we do know everyone's names
00:57:17
because I think that's just the style
00:57:20
yeah I'm shocking with names this would
00:57:21
be my worst nightmare being
00:57:24
you like the scary thing for you like
00:57:26
it's so many people and you know that
00:57:28
everyone there knows your name sometimes
00:57:30
they don't some I think like if they're
00:57:33
new they do if they don't they're
00:57:35
pretending they don't surely but there's
00:57:37
so much pressure for you to know their
00:57:39
names as well otherwise you know you
00:57:40
seem rude or whatever yeah um so how
00:57:44
does the how does the 3o thing work so
00:57:46
there's three CEOs yeah yeah so how how
00:57:50
does how does that work in terms of like
00:57:52
yeah how do you split the the you know
00:57:54
you might each have different sort of
00:57:55
job descriptions or no um we it's less
00:58:00
ordered or structured as people might
00:58:02
believe it is um and it's probably not a
00:58:05
model that could work for everyone or
00:58:07
every business um but it is I think by
00:58:10
the dynamic of how our business was
00:58:11
formed and how it came together it's
00:58:13
like we've been working so closely
00:58:15
together for so long now um and it was
00:58:19
origin like Brooke was the original CEO
00:58:21
um and that was largely because at the
00:58:24
time we needed to be raising capital and
00:58:26
um that was largely her responsibility
00:58:29
it was um speaking to investors and
00:58:32
raising capital for sheries and that
00:58:35
Naturally Fit within the CEO role at
00:58:37
that time and then I think it was after
00:58:38
she'd come back from having um
00:58:42
babies uh that I think it was like
00:58:45
actually later I started you know we
00:58:47
would run the business while she was on
00:58:49
Parental leave and then um I was like
00:58:52
actually should we just formalize that
00:58:53
it's the three of us that actually
00:58:55
sharing the CEO role and how it works is
00:58:59
um we have different direct reports and
00:59:02
they're not kind of um what's the word
00:59:05
it's like it's not like one of us you
00:59:07
know we have specific um Industries or
00:59:10
you know what what am I trying to say
00:59:12
it's like um like it's not like someone
00:59:14
has the legal team or the product team
00:59:16
or the marketing team uh we tried to
00:59:18
purposefully make it so it's not like
00:59:20
you end up owning owning an area of the
00:59:24
business um it's like any one of us
00:59:27
should be able to have anyone report to
00:59:29
us and it's not about our own like
00:59:31
knowledge or stuff like that it's about
00:59:34
just us being able to share leadership
00:59:35
across the business so um like at the
00:59:37
moment I um don't have direct
00:59:40
reports um because I'm like focused on
00:59:42
more project stuff or and I've just come
00:59:44
back from Australia I've spent some time
00:59:46
over there building our you know
00:59:48
business over there and
00:59:51
um but we we lots of our decisions are
00:59:55
actually made by our leadership team so
00:59:57
we really share lots of context we get
00:59:59
quite engaged to make sure like things
01:00:01
are off on the right track and going
01:00:04
well lots of it is like being a sounding
01:00:06
board for the people who are making the
01:00:07
decision and at that point you don't
01:00:09
need us all to agree we don't all we
01:00:11
don't all agree and that would be a
01:00:12
nightmare if we had to sit there and
01:00:14
like try and agree and for anyone that
01:00:16
knows us we like yes we're very similar
01:00:18
in lots of ways but we're like also very
01:00:20
different and I think that's like
01:00:21
something to be celebrated um yeah so so
01:00:23
how do you what happen is it like a
01:00:25
majority thing or no like I think um
01:00:28
most of the time we're able to come to
01:00:29
some kind of consensus if we really
01:00:31
can't it's like a usually we sleep on it
01:00:34
if it's an irreversible decision or it's
01:00:37
like if it needs to be made now it's
01:00:38
like he like the person who cares the
01:00:42
most um and kind of default to that but
01:00:46
lar like I can't think of many times
01:00:48
when it's ever come to like a stand
01:00:50
still usually what happens is you come
01:00:53
the next day being so convinced by the
01:00:55
person
01:00:56
but they've also come back convinced so
01:00:58
you're now on Switched sides you know
01:01:00
like a give and take and compromise yeah
01:01:03
that's cool yeah I mean you guys are
01:01:06
disruptors like what you've done with
01:01:08
the app and what your business is all
01:01:10
about is disrupting and it's makes sense
01:01:12
that you've taken that disruption sort
01:01:14
of thing into into the you the founder
01:01:16
model and now the CEO model it's like
01:01:19
you're not following anyone else's path
01:01:21
and I think that's really powerful
01:01:23
there's lots as well like when I hear
01:01:24
from people that they say like oh it's
01:01:25
really lonely you know like I do think
01:01:27
um like that's not an emotion I felt in
01:01:31
my experience with jersies you know you
01:01:34
want to be Lely it's in the name you
01:01:38
know but like um I think we we've got
01:01:42
like so much respect for each other and
01:01:44
I think that's and a real clear set of
01:01:47
values but yeah also very different like
01:01:50
I I think um yeah we all bring something
01:01:53
different to the table which is lovely
01:01:55
as well so you so you you own a
01:01:57
percentage of the company mhm do you say
01:01:59
how much or no no so you own a
01:02:02
percentage of the company so that's um
01:02:03
you're you're a very wealthy woman um on
01:02:06
paper on paper yeah yeah 100% And then
01:02:09
you get a salary as the the 3o yeah yeah
01:02:13
how cool yeah that's so awesome it is I
01:02:17
think it's cool um like talking about
01:02:19
that goldfish you know and like coming
01:02:21
from Le or things that I didn't know
01:02:22
were possible um like I think just
01:02:26
things
01:02:27
like you know getting exposed working at
01:02:30
zero early on there and seeing what
01:02:32
could be made like what companies could
01:02:34
be built from Wellington and like that
01:02:36
was Global when I well it was going
01:02:38
global when I started there and I mean
01:02:41
there's actually so much cool stuff that
01:02:43
comes out of New Zealand and um
01:02:46
sometimes it's just those things that
01:02:47
plant a seed of what's possible and then
01:02:52
um yeah yeah I don't know if this is
01:02:55
something you think about about it I
01:02:56
suspect it's probably not where did you
01:02:58
go to school did you go to Wu oroa horo
01:03:01
so you like right now there could there
01:03:04
could be some young girls sitting in
01:03:05
sitting in school um and you've sort of
01:03:08
made her realize that even though you're
01:03:09
at a high school in Lin you know you you
01:03:11
know you can do
01:03:12
anything yeah yeah like it's it's it's
01:03:16
like yeah I mean when you were at school
01:03:19
the most famous thing from L was
01:03:20
probably RJ's lior Carlo sper Carlo sper
01:03:25
yeah yeah so it's like oh actually I
01:03:28
turned on um the uh par Olympics last
01:03:31
night and the woman that was on the the
01:03:34
one of the equestrians was um from Le
01:03:36
and we went to school together um but
01:03:38
there's good people there is good people
01:03:40
who and I are I'm pretty sure like
01:03:42
Michelle aort I was speaking oh the
01:03:45
comedian yeah I'm pretty sure she's from
01:03:47
Lin you know there's because I always I
01:03:50
really try to B up Len when I'm speaking
01:03:52
somewhere cuz I think it gets such a bad
01:03:54
rap um who from who's liveing a bad
01:03:57
R is that a
01:04:01
joke no I don't think Lin's on anyone's
01:04:04
radar like I think Hamilton gets a bad
01:04:07
rep lein no one's even thinking about
01:04:10
lvin maybe you're just too sensitive to
01:04:12
live in well I like I care deeply about
01:04:16
that place I think it's great yeah so do
01:04:18
I so it's I think you got to be exposed
01:04:21
like I think um it's nice to be exposed
01:04:24
to to different things
01:04:26
um see what's possible yeah for sure
01:04:29
what's been the hardest day at work so
01:04:30
far has it been like a standout day oh
01:04:34
you you know how people people like to
01:04:35
you know it's a bit of a cliche and it's
01:04:37
it's not not true most of the time but
01:04:39
people talk about Blood Sweat and Tears
01:04:41
yeah yeah have there been some days that
01:04:43
have just felt impossibly difficult
01:04:45
or yeah yeah definitely yeah yeah but I
01:04:48
like nothing no one particular one
01:04:50
Springs to mind we've definitely had
01:04:52
hard times like I mean the whole Co
01:04:55
situation and that was you know really
01:04:58
hard and huge as an employer you know
01:05:01
you kind of oh yeah you know that really
01:05:03
threw up so much about um making sure
01:05:07
you're looking after people yeah like it
01:05:08
really did change the whole work
01:05:09
environment all of a sudden you got
01:05:11
people working from home and you're just
01:05:13
trying to support people but you're not
01:05:14
all together you know like I did I
01:05:16
thought at that time was really interest
01:05:19
there's been so many challenges and you
01:05:21
just because you go like there's no
01:05:23
training for this you know that I think
01:05:25
it's the the moments maybe that stick
01:05:27
out to me are like moments
01:05:30
where you're like oh this is I have to
01:05:33
make this there's no one out you know
01:05:35
other than our team and we do have a
01:05:38
great great board as well that are like
01:05:39
really handson and um involved in the
01:05:42
business so I guess I feel like we've
01:05:44
got lots of support but I think um yeah
01:05:46
there's definitely hard moments and hard
01:05:49
things but you um yeah you have to grow
01:05:52
up pretty quickly I'm guessing you've
01:05:53
had to have some very difficult
01:05:54
conversations and
01:05:56
um you know don't you know maybe let
01:05:58
some people go that you didn't
01:05:59
necessarily want to along the way and
01:06:01
things like that and um I'm very good at
01:06:04
procrastinating big decisions like that
01:06:06
in my personal life I I can't imagine
01:06:08
like you're doing things like this on a
01:06:09
daily
01:06:10
basis yeah um you just get does it get
01:06:14
easier you get better at it at having
01:06:16
tough conversations and making tough
01:06:17
decisions I think it's maybe it's like
01:06:20
that um I feel like maybe it's a lateen
01:06:22
quote that like that whole um clarity is
01:06:25
kindness as well so it's like if you
01:06:27
know something you know I think you can
01:06:30
what I don't even think of a particular
01:06:32
example in my head but I think it's like
01:06:33
just with anything um there can be this
01:06:36
situation but there's always a human
01:06:38
across from you or like I think it's
01:06:41
just like how you connect with that
01:06:43
person or whatever that situation is
01:06:45
there's so many different situations
01:06:47
that that can show up with but I think
01:06:50
um there's like it it should always show
01:06:52
respect and the humanity of it you know
01:06:54
should always come first
01:06:56
yeah um so I think like I think
01:06:58
culturally I think we really lead in
01:07:00
that way um yeah is it a good place to
01:07:03
work yeah well we just we did just win
01:07:05
employer of the year at the um
01:07:08
Wellington gold Awards last week um
01:07:11
humble break humble break it own it
01:07:14
that's cool why why did you win um
01:07:16
because of a lot of our U processes and
01:07:19
and things and how how we operate our
01:07:21
team um so I think we've got an amazing
01:07:24
like people experience team but also
01:07:26
everyone at sher's contributes to sh
01:07:28
being a great place I think um it's
01:07:32
definitely like and I've worked some
01:07:33
great places as well and I know you know
01:07:35
I'm really biased but I do think um we
01:07:38
try really hard at the things that we
01:07:40
think really matter like
01:07:42
um you know making it like being a good
01:07:45
place flexible working helping people do
01:07:47
their best
01:07:48
work um working on cool problems having
01:07:52
the tools you
01:07:53
need like just all the things that you
01:07:55
think yeah are they sort of like the key
01:07:57
the key tenants of um shees you think we
01:08:00
do have values do you what are do you
01:08:02
know what they are off the top of your
01:08:03
head of course how many are there
01:08:04
there's three three are you yeah love
01:08:06
threes
01:08:08
um
01:08:10
see um uh one is Chase remarkable and
01:08:15
that's about um you know setting the new
01:08:18
Benchmark it's like and the word the
01:08:20
kind of we always say the the clu is in
01:08:22
the word Chase it's not B remarkable
01:08:24
it's not some somewhere get or arrive to
01:08:26
it's a constant thing you should always
01:08:28
feel like the bit is just that little
01:08:31
bit Out Of Reach and um stretch that
01:08:34
little bit further and that's um about
01:08:36
setting a new Benchmark for like our
01:08:38
customers for the industry it's about we
01:08:41
used to um when we were smaller if we
01:08:43
released a new product we used to count
01:08:44
how many people positively remarked on
01:08:47
it um because you can take takes you now
01:08:50
you you go through it's really easy to
01:08:51
send a gripe to somewhere and you're
01:08:54
really motivated to send a gripe
01:08:56
but to actually go out of your way to
01:08:57
send a really positive message like
01:08:59
that's very true people just don't do
01:09:01
that until unless it's been really
01:09:03
remarkable so I think that's something
01:09:04
to really um cherish the other one is in
01:09:07
it together and um how we really show
01:09:10
the value of the team and work together
01:09:11
and have each other's back and things
01:09:13
like that and the other one is always
01:09:15
care and that's about caring for each
01:09:17
other yourself and um your customers um
01:09:21
but also like hearing about the details
01:09:23
it's like showing care what you do um so
01:09:27
those are our three who came up with him
01:09:29
was that a collaborative we all did
01:09:30
actually the founders and then it's kind
01:09:32
of evolved over time um but they're
01:09:34
still the
01:09:35
same but that was when we decided what
01:09:38
kind of workplace we wanted to be a part
01:09:39
of or be a part of creating um because
01:09:42
we've got a really strong why and we've
01:09:44
got our what you know and then the how
01:09:47
um so think that's some that can either
01:09:50
happen by accident or by Design it's
01:09:53
funny it's really got to yeah going back
01:09:54
to the Netflix book that I was telling
01:09:56
you about that I've just listened to so
01:09:57
the the um one of the two founders of
01:09:59
Netflix you know he talked about um your
01:10:02
culture at Netflix and he said it's easy
01:10:04
to have like posters on the wall or
01:10:05
slogans on the wall but it's really got
01:10:06
to come from the behavior of um of the
01:10:09
management and go down so I suppose if
01:10:11
the sex of you are coming up with those
01:10:13
three rules and you're living by them
01:10:14
and following them um then the staff
01:10:17
just hopefully follow take the Le and
01:10:20
like push it you know and you that's the
01:10:23
thing that um everyone bring something
01:10:26
to sheries and um I think that's where
01:10:29
values are important because they kind
01:10:31
of solidify you and what you what what
01:10:35
um what you're trying to achieve and
01:10:37
then people do really rally around
01:10:39
those and for you personally Career
01:10:42
Success and Financial Security has it
01:10:44
changed
01:10:45
you or and if so
01:10:48
how is it must have given you more
01:10:51
confidence like yeah I think um if I
01:10:53
talk like maybe always thought
01:10:55
and put myself in like an underdog I
01:10:58
think it was like coming from Le you
01:10:59
know like I always felt like I didn't
01:11:01
quite belong in places or always felt
01:11:03
like
01:11:05
um yeah like Underdog was probably a
01:11:07
word you know that I used um and now
01:11:12
like I think it's I still carried that
01:11:14
feeling for a while but now as you say
01:11:17
it's like um that was an important thing
01:11:20
to recognize that it is so different
01:11:21
it's like you're actually different now
01:11:23
and I still kind of struggle connecting
01:11:25
with that identity um but I still very
01:11:29
very much like think I'm the same person
01:11:32
but just like different choices that I'm
01:11:34
able to make and um I mean you grow up a
01:11:37
lot in those years don't you like
01:11:39
um and I yeah learn stuff from everyone
01:11:43
around me every day what what about
01:11:45
people around you do you think it's
01:11:46
changed have you noticed a change in
01:11:48
people around
01:11:49
you not not a whole lot no we love to
01:11:52
laugh we love to work hard
01:11:55
and have an impact yeah yeah and I think
01:11:59
um you we go away together once a year
01:12:01
the the group and um partners and stuff
01:12:03
as well like Shar his private
01:12:07
jet not at all um and those always just
01:12:10
really lowkey H you know they they still
01:12:12
the same hang you know like um we just
01:12:16
love spending time together and um or
01:12:19
think it's important to as well like
01:12:20
once a year our families and stuff get
01:12:22
together and stay connected to what
01:12:25
we're creating and um no I don't think
01:12:29
it like it probably
01:12:32
has
01:12:34
yeah yeah I suppose you don't even
01:12:36
notice that
01:12:38
um um do you know that you know the
01:12:40
actor Tiffany hadish yeah yeah so I I
01:12:43
heard her on a podcast and she was
01:12:44
talking about um she's talking about
01:12:46
money and after she got her first big
01:12:47
movie role um one of her old friends
01:12:49
came to and said oh can I borrow some
01:12:50
money and and Tiffany was was thinking
01:12:52
it was going to be 50 bucks or 100 bucks
01:12:54
like they've always loaned each other
01:12:55
and her friend was like
01:12:57
12,000 and so Tiffany was stunned and
01:13:00
she loaned her the money and she said
01:13:01
since then she's had a a thing with
01:13:03
friends and if they ask you for money
01:13:05
she's like okay I will lend you the
01:13:08
money but I will say once I lend you the
01:13:10
money our friendship's never going to be
01:13:12
the same again and you have until my
01:13:14
next birthday to pay me back and if that
01:13:16
doesn't happen then we just can't be
01:13:17
friends anymore so I just think like um
01:13:19
I suppose I'm going where I'm going with
01:13:21
that is you with Financial Security it
01:13:23
does sometimes change the people people
01:13:25
around you and I don't know if it's like
01:13:26
a a tall poppy thing or an attitudinal
01:13:29
thing I just wondered like if you've
01:13:31
noticed that at all yeah no I haven't
01:13:33
and I mean I'm someone who like keeps a
01:13:35
pretty tight circle like I don't um
01:13:38
mostly spend my time with like my family
01:13:40
and um so if you go still like still
01:13:43
like really close to my siblings we hang
01:13:45
out a lot um but if you all go to our
01:13:49
mes for dinner and drinks um do do your
01:13:52
brothers and sister all like sit there
01:13:54
at the end
01:13:56
and I think like there's moments that I
01:13:59
um no I don't think it's played into it
01:14:01
like I don't think we've really talked
01:14:02
about it
01:14:04
um but
01:14:06
yeah it's like it's in a company you
01:14:08
know it's not um yeah in my bank account
01:14:12
you know so how old she is is now seven
01:14:14
years seven seven years okay seven years
01:14:16
from now um where do you see yourself
01:14:19
professionally and personally yeah seven
01:14:21
years from now definitely um that we
01:14:27
still um creating Financial Empowerment
01:14:30
um with
01:14:31
chers would like love to see sh's
01:14:33
continuing to grow and develop
01:14:37
um what it needs to to like really
01:14:39
create that financial empowerment for
01:14:41
people like we do think it's the place
01:14:43
that you come to really grow wealth and
01:14:44
that we help people realize that and um
01:14:48
you know we've developed these other
01:14:49
products and it's just about like how do
01:14:51
you integrate that more into people's
01:14:52
lives um and with the people in their
01:14:54
Liv Liv so still think there's so much
01:14:57
change that needs to happen in um the
01:15:00
financial services space but see so C is
01:15:03
being really big um and solving more of
01:15:06
those problems for people um continuing
01:15:09
to grow into
01:15:10
Australia um and then you know we have
01:15:13
this thing that if we're still you know
01:15:14
s years is a long time away um and if
01:15:18
I'm still useful to sheres and and I'm
01:15:21
still enjoying it then I could be there
01:15:23
I don't have any
01:15:25
desire to like leave it at this point
01:15:27
but again like business has changed so
01:15:28
much and just might not be a fit at some
01:15:31
point so I'm like open to that too
01:15:33
you're still very young eh um I I had um
01:15:36
Anna Mo on the podcast a few weeks ago
01:15:38
so she and she she sort of talked about
01:15:40
um zuru as being um a mountain that she
01:15:43
climbed and she wants to climb more
01:15:45
Mountains that's the analogy she uses
01:15:47
for you it's just she as is right now
01:15:50
yeah I think there's definitely like
01:15:52
other things yeah what is it um
01:15:56
there was definitely a point where I
01:15:57
felt like it was a big part of my
01:15:58
identity and um I think that was healthy
01:16:02
to remove myself and try to
01:16:05
um you know separate that a bit and see
01:16:09
you know develop who you are in the
01:16:11
world and outside of always being
01:16:15
um like tied up into one thing cuz it's
01:16:18
all of our thing and it's also lots of
01:16:20
other people's thing now too and um I
01:16:23
heard someone um
01:16:25
describe writing the highs and lows like
01:16:27
if you connect yourself so C so tightly
01:16:30
to something that you will then feel
01:16:32
those highs and lows but you don't
01:16:33
always have control over those so
01:16:36
um yeah what is that I love making cool
01:16:39
stuff that has an impact with cool
01:16:42
people you know I like that like that
01:16:45
just guides if I think like that's I'm
01:16:48
not actually you know I'm complicated as
01:16:50
we all are but like you know if I sum it
01:16:53
up like what do I love and what do I get
01:16:54
a kick out of like professionally it's
01:16:56
that and those are the ingredients and
01:16:58
so if those are there then those are
01:17:00
there and then um personally I love to
01:17:02
laugh and I have like a I notice that
01:17:07
every day I'm not laughing enough
01:17:09
today you do you you do have a I've
01:17:12
listened to just about every podcast
01:17:14
you've been on in anticipation for this
01:17:15
you do have a real easy laugh a real
01:17:18
easy laugh um and it's it's really cool
01:17:20
yeah it's been quite of serious today I
01:17:23
think that's good though it's been
01:17:24
really interesting to pick your brains
01:17:26
yeah has it been too serious have we
01:17:27
been too serious it's been quite serious
01:17:30
I
01:17:31
thought we want more laughes um um I
01:17:35
thought you might have asked me about
01:17:37
running oh we we were going to go for a
01:17:41
run um where was it last weekend last
01:17:44
weekend but some something came up yeah
01:17:45
you're back running again yes well I've
01:17:47
never really run and I think this is um
01:17:51
you know being here today or like being
01:17:52
asked to come on it's huge because I
01:17:55
have followed the podcast you know long
01:17:57
time listener first time caller um but
01:18:01
have listened to the podcast from the
01:18:03
earliest day like I remember listening
01:18:05
to the hype episode which was like a
01:18:06
minute long where you were just like
01:18:08
hyping what the podcast was going to be
01:18:09
about God how do you have time like the
01:18:12
last three three years I've been doing
01:18:14
this podcast like you've been running
01:18:15
this big business you you know um dealt
01:18:18
with you fertility stuff you've had a
01:18:20
baby how do you have time to listen to
01:18:22
like junky podcasts like this it's not
01:18:24
junky
01:18:25
it's amazing and I did think um it was a
01:18:28
real Catalyst for like helping me like
01:18:32
start running cuz I've never been a
01:18:33
runner like I'll give it a spt like I'll
01:18:35
give like maybe two or three months and
01:18:37
then I fall off the weon um but there
01:18:39
was this whole thing about cuz it was
01:18:40
called Runners only and it and I was
01:18:43
just like look I'm going to put this on
01:18:45
and go for a run every time it's on and
01:18:48
um I did and then I got so into it and I
01:18:51
think like what happened is like because
01:18:53
I was listening to this thing that was
01:18:54
about Runners and for runners I like
01:18:57
took that identity whereas like before I
01:19:00
never really I I thought I had to like a
01:19:03
runner was a thing that you were and it
01:19:06
was like well I'm not that yet and I
01:19:08
never kind of put in the work to get it
01:19:09
but um I think you've even shared the
01:19:11
line like if you run you're a runner or
01:19:13
absolutely yeah yeah yeah I I hate that
01:19:16
people say oh I'm not a I'm not I'm not
01:19:18
a runner like you or I'm not this it's
01:19:20
not about speed it's not about distance
01:19:21
it's not about anything yeah and um so I
01:19:25
like kept at it largely because I just
01:19:26
felt like I was in this community of
01:19:28
Runners but really it was just like
01:19:30
listening to your podcast and then
01:19:31
listening to people talk about running
01:19:33
and I got way more into running and um
01:19:36
you know the podcast has changed so much
01:19:37
now but it's like it's so unique and
01:19:40
that um the stories that you tell of
01:19:43
people and um you know I I like it feels
01:19:46
like a real honor to be here because I
01:19:47
know the people you interview I know the
01:19:49
stories that you tell you know it's like
01:19:51
it's really special and I think um
01:19:55
like one you know like I think I say
01:19:57
like I try really hard or I'm a bit of a
01:19:59
try hard I Tred to like reclaim that
01:20:01
word yeah it's a bad R it does get a bad
01:20:05
R cuz I had to give a talk back in Liv
01:20:07
and I was like really nervous about it
01:20:08
and I was like why are you nervous and I
01:20:10
was like it's because I think someone's
01:20:11
going to stand up and say oh you're try
01:20:13
hard and then I was like you know cuz
01:20:15
you play your fears out and um I was
01:20:18
like Hey that wouldn't even be that bad
01:20:19
it's like what does that even mean like
01:20:20
you try hard it's like I actually love
01:20:22
that yeah it's a good thing and um
01:20:25
I think in a space like the people you
01:20:27
profile and the way that you profile
01:20:28
them I think um it's it's celebrating a
01:20:32
success in a way that was celebrating
01:20:34
life and stories of new zealanders in a
01:20:37
really proud way I think that's really
01:20:38
special well I'm I'm so proud of you not
01:20:41
not not just because we're family but
01:20:42
yeah I mean you're just a great New
01:20:44
Zealander and you've done um you've done
01:20:45
really well um yeah yeah part part of
01:20:48
the aspect of your story that I love is
01:20:50
the fact that you're from you know this
01:20:51
this small shitty little town in New
01:20:53
Zealand and you've done this amazing
01:20:54
thing
01:20:55
um it's great L's actually
01:20:58
great do you want to be do you want to
01:21:01
get into politics and be like the Horan
01:21:03
or like r or something or the mirr is
01:21:06
that what you're angling for posters
01:21:08
like like um I don't know it's a like
01:21:12
it's just a really I think
01:21:15
places yeah it's just nice to feel
01:21:17
positive about what you from oh know I
01:21:19
feel I feel yeah I was born on L and we
01:21:23
we moved to Hastings and then to paly
01:21:25
North but um um yeah I've got a massive
01:21:28
connection to living like um at n and
01:21:30
Grandad's place you know your dad's
01:21:32
parents and my mom's parents um we had
01:21:35
Christmas day there and I used to get so
01:21:36
excited about it because they'd be like
01:21:38
God I don't know maybe 50 cousins
01:21:40
running around like it was just a
01:21:41
massive event it was so cool it's true
01:21:44
yeah so cool um yeah oh back to yeah
01:21:47
back to the running thing like the one
01:21:49
big thing that I get out of it and um I
01:21:52
say this to other people like just the
01:21:54
the mental Clarity and the mental health
01:21:55
benefits um is that a big thing for you
01:21:58
totally yeah and I think
01:22:01
um it's it's a real mood changer in so
01:22:04
many ways and I think it's like
01:22:06
something like this is the longest stunt
01:22:07
I've ever stuck with running and um I
01:22:10
reckon it's like a huge part to do with
01:22:12
the podcast because it like taught me to
01:22:14
make it social or it made me made me
01:22:16
realize like connecting in with
01:22:18
something was what like claiming the
01:22:20
identity and we do that like with shares
01:22:23
users as well it's like if you invest
01:22:24
you're an investor you know like claim
01:22:26
it like that's all part of what helps
01:22:29
stick you inide you know keep you at it
01:22:31
cuz this beginning of anything is always
01:22:33
really hard and like running um it
01:22:36
doesn't actually get easier I've now
01:22:38
learned it doesn't no but you you know
01:22:42
you you just adapt and you have an
01:22:43
ability to do more yeah but it's always
01:22:46
like challenging in some way and like
01:22:48
you might feel different and like things
01:22:49
that might have like it's always a a
01:22:53
challenge and I think there's something
01:22:55
nice about um yeah I think it's just so
01:22:58
great you get to get out see different
01:22:59
things now it's like a social thing for
01:23:01
me I get to catch up with people um and
01:23:04
yeah like I reached out to you and your
01:23:05
mom cuz it was like and in ockland know
01:23:08
you guys are runnner you know it's like
01:23:10
a nice way to connect with people and go
01:23:13
yeah actually yeah it's really social
01:23:14
and you yeah you don't have to um yeah
01:23:17
you can you can go slowly so it's a
01:23:18
conversational pace and turn it into a
01:23:20
social thing yeah do you when you go oh
01:23:22
hey by the way it's worth pointing out
01:23:24
um
01:23:25
we just heed up this Podcast chat
01:23:26
through DMs on Instagram you didn't make
01:23:28
me go have you got a PA or an assistant
01:23:31
I do have some help w i I didn't have to
01:23:34
go through your assistant or anything if
01:23:35
I was you I would have like put me onto
01:23:36
the assistant that would have been a
01:23:39
flex you're so
01:23:42
humble um well we're a family and
01:23:46
um but what a power play um and as I say
01:23:50
like I'm like genuinely love the podcast
01:23:53
so I think like it feels really cool to
01:23:54
be here and um yeah I think oh the
01:23:58
running thing one other thing I'll say
01:24:00
about it is it's like so much of life is
01:24:02
hard and you don't choose it to be hard
01:24:04
like unexpectedly hard stuff just pops
01:24:06
up all the time and then it's kind of
01:24:07
nice like what I find with running is
01:24:09
cuz it CU I do find it hard it's like
01:24:11
it's nice to choose to do something
01:24:13
that's hard and then you get used to
01:24:15
dealing with hard things so then when
01:24:16
they pop up randomly you're actually
01:24:19
more equipped to deal with it 100% 100%
01:24:23
yeah there's a slogan I really like it
01:24:24
says um it goes something like hard hard
01:24:26
Choice Easy Life Easy Choice hard life
01:24:29
um yeah and running definitely fits into
01:24:31
that category I've got a couple of um I
01:24:34
was going to say like um sort of easy
01:24:35
questions to finish with but maybe they
01:24:37
not be they may not be easy um are you
01:24:41
proud of
01:24:42
yourself y y yeah yeah you should be I
01:24:47
like asking that one because um yeah a
01:24:49
lot of people find it a real challenge
01:24:50
new zealanders I think in particular
01:24:51
find it like a difficult question to
01:24:53
answer because it almost seems like um
01:24:55
it comes with a bit of I don't know like
01:24:57
stigma or embarrassment to say you're
01:24:59
proud of yourself yeah I do think like
01:25:01
because as I said I've just like come
01:25:02
back from Australia and one thing I did
01:25:04
notice while I was over there is like
01:25:06
that kiwis do have some real baggage
01:25:08
associated with success or something
01:25:10
good happening to you like I think we
01:25:12
have a real strong like the success we
01:25:14
really celebrate or the good things we
01:25:15
really celebrate is where we see that
01:25:17
someone's put in lots of work or um we
01:25:21
really love those ones but it's like if
01:25:24
some if something happens to someone and
01:25:25
it's just like an easy one we don't tend
01:25:27
to celebrate that as much whereas it's
01:25:30
like it's the same you know like I don't
01:25:32
know why it's like I think we really
01:25:34
glamorize the
01:25:36
um the hard path to being happy or being
01:25:40
successful being all those things and um
01:25:44
so I do like there is a complex
01:25:45
relationship there but I think at the
01:25:47
end of the day do I act in a way and
01:25:49
show up for the people in my life how I
01:25:51
want to yeah I try really hard to do
01:25:53
that and I'm really proud of it have you
01:25:55
encountered um much in the way of like
01:25:57
tall poppy
01:25:59
syndrome
01:26:01
um I don't know not really I think in
01:26:04
little ways
01:26:06
probably like but not a an event that
01:26:09
sticks out maybe more myself or or
01:26:12
something like that yeah what what would
01:26:14
you say your best and worst habits
01:26:18
are if Ben was here what would he say
01:26:21
just in worst
01:26:23
habits um
01:26:25
um best and worst best is that I do
01:26:29
laugh a lot and I like to laugh and I
01:26:31
can habit of laughing is good um laugh
01:26:34
it is it is great and it makes the
01:26:36
person you're talking to it makes them
01:26:37
feel great
01:26:38
and it's good laughing is powerful I
01:26:41
like to um I just get a kick out of it
01:26:44
yeah so I like think that's a habit I
01:26:46
try to um keep it uh worst habits I
01:26:51
don't know Ben would probably say heaps
01:26:52
of stuff
01:26:55
what what would he say like are you like
01:26:57
are you too hard on yourself at times uh
01:27:00
yeah yeah y probably okay well that's a
01:27:04
bad habit isn't it that's true well I
01:27:06
don't know I suppose it's a I suppose
01:27:08
it's like a double-edged sword in a way
01:27:10
isn't it yeah yeah but what and what
01:27:12
about your in a voice is your in a voice
01:27:14
quite nice no I'd say it's ways negative
01:27:17
um quite [ __ ] the amount of people I've
01:27:19
had on the podcast that say that like
01:27:20
real high performance people like michaa
01:27:22
blide from the sevens
01:27:27
um yeah but but you catch yourself when
01:27:30
you're not being kind to yourself and
01:27:31
you got to re redirecting it yeah yeah
01:27:34
try to yeah but it's like like I think
01:27:37
like anything it's a constant work on
01:27:40
and I think like um and I think it is
01:27:43
for everyone I really do yeah yeah what
01:27:47
about um mistakes or
01:27:49
regrets nothing Springs to mind that's
01:27:53
great yeah I tend to have a no regrets
01:27:55
policy I like like um yeah it's just
01:27:59
like a
01:28:01
um I think like it always regrets you
01:28:04
always it always feels shitty to do
01:28:06
something that feels like it clashes
01:28:07
with your values or something so now if
01:28:10
I'm ever on the fence about something
01:28:11
I'm like what are you what would you do
01:28:13
you know cuz you can get caught up in
01:28:15
the shs or the this and the that and
01:28:17
you're like actually what would make me
01:28:18
feel really proud to look at myself in
01:28:20
the eyes at the end of the day and I
01:28:22
tend to just make those decisions more
01:28:23
often yeah do do you have any like um
01:28:26
like pillars when it comes to values or
01:28:28
is it just be a good person I think
01:28:30
Integrity like doing your actions and
01:28:32
your behavior you know what you say and
01:28:34
your behaviors should try and match up
01:28:35
as much as
01:28:38
possible and um and then I think fun is
01:28:42
a real value and try to like look for
01:28:44
the the good or the Joy or the
01:28:46
light-heartedness um and then yeah like
01:28:51
working with others teamwork being a
01:28:52
good person for with in other people you
01:28:55
know with other people um what else oh
01:29:00
like trying hard you you can't really um
01:29:03
either pick the
01:29:05
outcome or you're not always in control
01:29:07
of that but I think
01:29:08
like I like to when I show up try to
01:29:12
give it my all like I I feel like I do
01:29:16
really try hard you know yeah I I I say
01:29:19
to people like if if you if you try hard
01:29:21
like if you legitimately try your
01:29:22
hardest at anything you you may not
01:29:24
always win or be the best but you will
01:29:26
be surprised at how far it takes you
01:29:28
yeah you will be like really surprised
01:29:30
do you think they um they really good
01:29:31
values to set um were you guys you were
01:29:34
you religious we're a very religious
01:29:36
family were you very religious family we
01:29:38
weren't raised relig did you not go to
01:29:40
church every Sunday no um no we didn't
01:29:45
yeah but did you yeah yeah until I was
01:29:47
old enough to make my own
01:29:48
decisions um but I like I look back now
01:29:51
and it's um you I I describe myself as a
01:29:54
is now but the um like the Catholic
01:29:56
values for the most part they're pretty
01:29:58
good sort of values or cornerstones to
01:29:59
have um but I think you can have those
01:30:01
without being necessarily Affiliated to
01:30:04
a certain religion yeah yeah I think um
01:30:07
what did I I read um where I listened to
01:30:10
a podcast it was a guy talking about
01:30:12
happiness it was on like one of Oprah's
01:30:13
ones um I think she's written a book
01:30:15
with him or something and it was like
01:30:17
what makes people what are the keys to
01:30:18
happiness um always love reading
01:30:20
something like
01:30:21
that who it like J sh or
01:30:24
um but one of the ones one of them was
01:30:27
like about being around things that make
01:30:29
you feel small like and that's where
01:30:31
like say religion or for some people
01:30:33
it's n like for me it's like nature or
01:30:35
being part of something that's bigger
01:30:38
than you um and helping yourself like
01:30:40
see that and I think that edit is really
01:30:42
important like it doesn't that's not
01:30:44
religion for me but personally but um
01:30:48
that's like I like being in awe of
01:30:49
something or feeling part of something
01:30:51
bigger I think that's a really like
01:30:54
something that just grounds you a bit
01:30:55
more yeah absolutely what's last one
01:30:58
what would your definition of success
01:31:04
be I
01:31:06
think having a positive impact and that
01:31:09
can be like in the small or in the big
01:31:12
like I'm I am aware like through shies
01:31:15
we have been able to impact people in a
01:31:17
really big way to really like and if we
01:31:20
keep ated and keep doing more around
01:31:22
that like that can be
01:31:24
something that could change people
01:31:27
intergenerationally you know like
01:31:29
changing the way people feel about money
01:31:31
people feel about wealth the choices
01:31:33
they can make that's huge and um and if
01:31:38
that's I get to do that through this
01:31:39
channel like that's amazing and that's
01:31:41
really cool that would be successful for
01:31:43
me um but at the same time it can be in
01:31:47
the small things like I as I said like
01:31:50
just want to be a good sort to the
01:31:51
people in my life to show up for my
01:31:54
friends for my family to try really hard
01:31:56
and what I do I think it's can also be
01:31:59
the success and the act of it not just
01:32:01
the outcome of it I think on your Lissa
01:32:03
Carrington one um podcast she talked
01:32:06
about it needs to be about more than the
01:32:09
middle and I do think I think you got to
01:32:12
like well for me personally I need to
01:32:14
decouple my personal success from an
01:32:17
outcome although I am like people that
01:32:19
know me really I'm really competitive
01:32:21
I'm really like like I'm all those
01:32:24
things I know at the same time to be
01:32:27
fair like you you you don't like create
01:32:29
what you've been a part of creating and
01:32:31
have the success you've had without
01:32:33
being competitive and driven and
01:32:35
hardworking and all those things you
01:32:36
just it just doesn't happen yeah yeah
01:32:38
and like my mom you know she has been a
01:32:42
huge influence on my life and she um you
01:32:44
know really taught me about like growth
01:32:47
mind she coached me like from such a
01:32:49
young age it was always like can't do
01:32:51
what's made to do you know like she's
01:32:53
played a huge role in um you know
01:32:55
helping me the way I you know like so I
01:32:59
think that's also part of it it's like
01:33:02
um it's just also recognizing yourself
01:33:04
like the bits of other people in you and
01:33:06
like that is I think that's really nice
01:33:10
yeah I I actually heard you say that in
01:33:11
another podcast um talking about Auntie
01:33:13
Jenning um saying um you thought it was
01:33:16
her quate but it was a Henry Ford one if
01:33:18
you think you can or you think you can't
01:33:20
you're probably right um but that's I
01:33:22
suppose she was your but she was my
01:33:24
auntie so I never I never experienced
01:33:26
the you the quotes lady growing up she
01:33:28
was just the most um yeah kind and and
01:33:31
lovely Auntie you could ever hope to
01:33:32
have and she like coached all all my
01:33:34
sport you know all right through and
01:33:37
like now I F think like that's the voice
01:33:40
and even just like the voice of where
01:33:41
your brain goes it's like um I realize
01:33:44
now like it's so powerful to go like if
01:33:46
you're in a hard situation it's not that
01:33:47
you're not going to get out of it it's
01:33:49
just that um you haven't found the right
01:33:51
path yet out and I think that's a
01:33:53
different you know it's like it's nice
01:33:54
to know and I Reon like she just taught
01:33:56
me so much of that out of like um I'm so
01:33:59
grateful for that and I um I think it's
01:34:04
you know hugely shaping I'm just going
01:34:07
like there's a way through here or um
01:34:11
yeah God they must be so
01:34:13
proud I'm I I'm I'm so proud I think the
01:34:16
last time I saw you was probably at um
01:34:18
ad and Anna's Funeral that was pre-
01:34:20
shies um yeah that's annoying that yeah
01:34:24
that you people like Nana who she was a
01:34:26
huge influence in our lives she never
01:34:28
got to see any of this yeah I think
01:34:33
um I
01:34:35
mean for family like family and like
01:34:38
coming from such a big family it's like
01:34:40
there's a real Legacy in that though way
01:34:42
like I do think um it's not always like
01:34:44
there's a I'm a big fan of the musical
01:34:46
Hamilton and um love not the town not I
01:34:50
do love the town too love rip rip all
01:34:53
the towns a handful have you been to the
01:34:55
Hamilton Gardens yeah wonderful the big
01:34:58
giant door what is Ambassador for towns
01:35:02
that get a really bad R um to Sonia's
01:35:06
coming for you um but um there's this
01:35:10
nice line that um Legacy is planting
01:35:12
seeds in a garden you won't get to see
01:35:15
and I think of that I think that's quite
01:35:17
you just that's what that question
01:35:18
triggered to me it's like it's not often
01:35:21
um you don't always have to be around to
01:35:23
experience it but it's like your legacy
01:35:25
is felt and all the things that you
01:35:27
create while you're
01:35:28
here jeez you're wise aren't
01:35:31
you so wise well that was from
01:35:34
Hamilton the
01:35:36
musical s that wasn't me okay you're not
01:35:40
claiming it like your mom with the Henry
01:35:42
is it you know yeah um I didn't like I
01:35:45
think I like to
01:35:48
seek edit you know like I listen to the
01:35:50
podcast I listen to lots of you know I
01:35:53
think I like to like soak up as much
01:35:54
wisdom from others as well yeah hey well
01:35:57
thanks for coming on the podcast today
01:35:59
yeah thanks for having me it's it's
01:36:00
really really cool to reconnect bloody
01:36:03
um yeah before we finish is there
01:36:05
anything that anything that we haven't
01:36:06
touched upon that you wanted to touch
01:36:08
upon did we miss anything I mean I feel
01:36:12
like we've gone around the place yeah
01:36:16
nothing nothing Springs
01:36:17
to there's always a p to there's always
01:36:21
a p to Sonia Williams um co-found of
01:36:24
sheries and 3o of sheries and my cousin
01:36:29
thank you so much for coming on the
01:36:30
podcast yeah thanks for having me
