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hey Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and William
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B Evans can I call you William do I call
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you Billy do I call you Mouse where's
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Mouse from Mouse yeah yeah my father
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named me that when I was a little kid
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when I was probably three or four
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because I was the youngest of six boys
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and uh you know my father raised us I
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lost my mum when I was just an infant so
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uh he had a name for everyone and that's
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where I got the nickname of
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I love it well should we go with Billy
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today yeah Billy okay that's cool hey
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well thank you so much for joining me on
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my on my podcast Runners only with dom
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Harvey I really really appreciate it
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you're like the you're like Boston
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royalty no no I've been you know I've
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lived in Boston 64 years now and my
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whole family grew up here I raised my
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family here so Boston's a special City
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for me yeah and um
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I mean there's so much to unpack with
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you especially in light of this new um
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Netflix
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um doco series about the Boston bombing
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which you featured prominently and you
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actually you turned it on episode one
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you're the first face that you see
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um but first of all I want to focus on
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your running Journey a little bit so two
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days ago you ran the Boston Marathon uh
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2023 the 10th anniversary of the bombing
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how did you get on well it was a good
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race and I I was lucky I got to run with
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my two sons my two youngest sons ran
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that day and you know I wanted to run
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because it's been 10 years from that
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tragic day and to honor the victims and
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all the survivors and honestly to just
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you know make a statement that you know
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Boston has came together that day
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everyone was United it was bust and
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strong and you know I I you know I've
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been a big part running it's been a big
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part of my my whole life and I thought
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it was important that I'd be out there
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and I enjoyed the race very much you
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know obviously I've gotten a lot slower
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over the years but it was a great day
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The Spectators were great and you know
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it's a great day in the city of Boston
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how did you how did you feel like at the
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big beginning of the the run on Monday
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like were you nervous were you anxious
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like well um you know I've run 60
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marathons yeah I always anxious I don't
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care how many you do you just hope to
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get over those Hills at 17 miles and you
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just don't know marathon's funny because
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you could feel great and then all of a
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sudden you know your body shuts down on
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you at whatever mileage so you know
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there's always a little anxiousness and
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anxiety when it starts no I mean I mean
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any sort of extra anxious anxiety or
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nerves I suppose and because of the
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significance of the date and the
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attention I think so yeah you know I you
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know I can't help think back 10 years
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ago when you know um no one ever thought
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anything like that would happen in in
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the city of Boston so you know
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marathon's uh 26.2 miles and you know
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anything can happen so I think you
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you're always anxious that there's some
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copycat out there or someone who wants
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to make a statement as we see all the
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time unfortunately in this world we got
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some violence in someone with a motive
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to make a statement so yeah I don't
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think you you ever can rest and think
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you're totally safe yeah so
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um what's your personal best you like a
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2 2 51 yeah sure that's good yeah I did
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in Boston the very first race I ran was
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a 253 so I traditionally probably half
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of my mouth on to under three hours but
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obviously as you age I'm more now I'm
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out there more for pleasure and enjoy
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running with my sons and it's it's great
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and you know I was in policing now I'm
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still chief of police at Boston College
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for almost 43 years and people over the
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course of my career whether it was being
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the police commissioner of the city and
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dealing with Marathon bombing asked me
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how do you deal with the stress and I
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always said as long as I've got my
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running every morning at 4 45 there
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wasn't any anything I couldn't
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accomplish so money was a big part of my
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life and I like to say a big part of my
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success
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yeah do you think um I mean geez there's
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a lot to get into
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um with you I think if we pick away at
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some threads but
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um you know in terms of like mental
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health and PTSD and a whole lot of
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things like that do you think um you're
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running and being physically fed in the
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same strict routine you've got has
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definitely helped keep that stuff at Bay
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absolutely when I feel stressed out
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um even the weaker the marathon you know
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the bombs went off Monday I think by
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Thursday morning with President Obama
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and his wife Coming to Town I think I
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got out at 3am that morning just to get
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around because you know we had a long
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day ahead of us but that's the that's
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the way that's like a non-negotiable for
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you yeah yeah everywhere I go I don't
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care where I am if I don't get my money
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I'm not the same type of guy and you
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know when I had 2200 officers in Boston
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I always like to preach to them how
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important it is not only for you
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physically but more so mentally because
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in in the police profession we see
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people at the worst and sometimes we see
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events like the Boston Marathon where we
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see some terrible atrocities and uh you
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know it's it's tough to deal with and so
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I think pushing that mental health in
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the wellness with running was key and is
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key
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foreign
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how do you get through some of that
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stuff I had a guy on the podcast last
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year Joseph Sullivan who you wouldn't
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have heard of but he's um he's uh won
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the America's Cup for yorting he's a New
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Zealand gold medalist for um for rowing
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as well now he's a he's a firefighter
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and um he he said on the way from events
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there's a lot of black humor that goes
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on
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um with him and his colleagues do you
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find that it's the same with you yeah we
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do I mean you know I think cops
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sometimes
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um joke
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um sort of a crazy sense of humor that
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some people would think why would you do
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that but yeah it's an outlet for us and
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you know sometimes at a crime scene you
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might see the collapse chuckling a
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little bit because that's their way they
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deal with it it's not pretty to the to a
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camera or it's not pretty to people who
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might be watching but they see such
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tragic and horrible things in their life
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that you know not that they get cold to
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it but I think sometimes that's the way
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they cope by sometimes joking about it
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and thinking this isn't bothered me but
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I think deep down we're human of course
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it's going to bother us and you know I
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think after the Boston Marathon we
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learned how important it was to get our
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officers offline and getting them the
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mental health services they need yeah
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right
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so um so just on your running Journey
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for a bit where did it all start because
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it's it feels like it's a little now
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um you know like looking back as a 64
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year old man it's been like a lifelong
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Obsession it has but you know I didn't
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really start it until I became a
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policeman I think I was probably like 26
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27 and one of my brothers
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um James and my brother Paul they had
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run the Boston Marathon and I had gone
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to watch them but I I remember always
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saying I I think those people are crazy
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who do that you know and I said who in
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their right mind would want to put
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themselves to that and I never thought I
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wanted to so I started out more doing
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like five mile races and 6.2 and uh then
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someone said to me oh you ought to try a
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marathon and I I sort of took the bait
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and I tried it and you know the very
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first one I went all out and you know
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trained hard and I got a 253 and I was
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like hey I can do this and I got the I
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got the bug and then it was became
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competitive against myself hey I can do
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better I can do better and uh I just
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really got into marathon after that did
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you for that um for those ones in the
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250s did you have like a program and
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were you doing some speed work or was
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that just you just going to Hopkinton
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and well you know I wasn't big going a
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hop continuing and doing the route I
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just worked like up in Boston The Beacon
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Hills I do a lot of Hill work I do you
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know a regiment I'd probably
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um you know
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really push myself and you know and and
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it really came through and I surprised
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myself with the 253 I I think I was just
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hoping to do well you know I was running
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with the Boston police Runners Club we
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have our own honest Club in
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um I just you know I was on a strict
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regiment and banging out the mileage
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every week and almost running seven days
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a week for uh probably almost 25 years I
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mean seven days a week and I was able to
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accomplish that goal yeah oh good for
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you
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now let's um talk about your upbringing
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for a little bit um it's a crazy
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upbringing so you're one of um six six
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boys yeah yeah and and your mum passed
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away with cancer when you were
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punishingly young yeah yeah I know I
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don't have one memory of my mom and then
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you know my father was left with six
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boys and he did a super job raising him
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and then when I was nine my closest
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brother Joe he got struck by a vehicle
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Crossing the the roadway and he got
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killed and then my father you know who
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was bringing up six boys he passed away
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suddenly when I was 14. so
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um you know literally I've been on my
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own since I've been 14. I have I have
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four older brothers who looked out after
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me but they also had their lives to go
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on and so uh you know I was very
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fortunate that a local
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Catholic priests got me into a good
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school and I always joke and I say I
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didn't have the brains to get into that
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school we didn't have any money but he
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got me a scholarship into a good high
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school and I got a good education there
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which helped me get into a good college
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and go on the police department after
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that so you know but that always shaped
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who I was because I had a local priest
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give me an opportunity of a lifetime and
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when I became a police commissioner I
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always thought you know
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every young kid needs the opportunity I
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got and whether you know you're poor
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whether you're whatever
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you know we should be giving everyone
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this opportunity you know I doubt I've
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seen a lot of gun violence over my
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career and a lot of people say why do
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these kids have guns why do they shoot
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each other well a lot of these kids have
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nothing in the world and nothing to look
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forward to and and they need an
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opportunity like I got so it's always
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shaped my whole philosophy of what a
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community is and what help a lot of
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people need
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why didn't you go off the rails when you
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were 14 like you would have had you
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would have had you could have been an
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Angry Young Man like going through
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puberty you got a short change with your
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mom Short change with your dad as well
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you've been through a lot of yeah
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uh like why did you it seems like you
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took the you know there's like a fork in
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the road and you took a good path rather
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than a bad path why didn't you get the
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bad way well I think my father the way
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he brought us up to look out for each
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other and to look out for everyone you
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know he put us into Catholic school so I
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was brought up with the sort of
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Christian values of taking good care of
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each other and you know uh you know you
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know you know Commandments and
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everything else so I was pretty you know
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pretty regiment uh I like to say you
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know if I needed something I was more
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ocd-ish I'd go after it and so you know
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uh you know I had friends unfortunately
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who did go off the rails and you know
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got involved in drugs and you know I
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grew up in a community that a lot of
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people either good guys or bad guys I
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mean I grew up in South Boston where
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Whitey Bulger was I don't know if you've
00:11:41
heard of Wadi Bulger but he was a big
00:11:43
gangster in the city of Boston who you
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know killed almost 19 people and he sort
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of was the mob that was running my
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community and so a lot of guys did go
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into you know the more dark side as
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opposed to that so but I I
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owe a lot to my dad I think he brought
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us up right you know he had my brothers
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and what's funny now Dom is meeting my
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four the Brothers still live in South
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Boston and we still all look out for
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each other
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I suppose as you've got older as a as a
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man and a father yourself you realize
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holy dad went through all this like
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Dad was dealing with his own grief dad
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was dad was probably confused thinking
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what the am I going to do with all
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these boys that's a lot is he still
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alive oh no he's yeah yeah
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he died when he was 52 and uh you know I
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look back I have three children and I
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you know thank God I had a wife who
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brought those kids up great because of
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being a policeman I always had a you
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know working all the time but you know I
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don't know how my father would have did
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it and I know he died young but you know
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to raise five kids and lose one I can't
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imagine the stress that was on him so
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you know he died
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suddenly with his hat and but I can't
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help but think
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um how tough that was for him to lose
00:13:06
his beautiful wife at age like 36 and be
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stuck with six boys all under the age of
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12.
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you can only imagine so what are you
00:13:16
what are you what are your memories of
00:13:17
your dad well you know it's been half a
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century for you now since you're awesome
00:13:21
yeah my memories are he he tried to keep
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us all together he tried to preach uh to
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us to look out for one another and you
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know he just I was the baby so he took
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good care of me and you know he's he
00:13:34
always told uh his older Sons that
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whatever happens take care of the mouth
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that was his nickname for me and you
00:13:42
know and then my brother Paul became a
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policeman when he was alive my oldest
00:13:47
brother was a policeman and he was so
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proud of Paul
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um you know that his son was a policeman
00:13:52
all three of my brothers went off to the
00:13:54
Vietnam War he was so proud of them to
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go off and fight for the country he's
00:13:59
one of the biggest advocates for
00:14:02
defending this country so he was part of
00:14:04
his boys yeah so do you so do you think
00:14:06
from your perspective either
00:14:08
um deliberately or sublimentally you you
00:14:10
became a cop because you knew it was
00:14:12
going to be something that would make
00:14:13
you dead proud yeah I think so he really
00:14:15
in growing up in the city that's what we
00:14:17
wanted to be either policemen firemen
00:14:20
our work for the city or the post office
00:14:22
we didn't have goals you know to be
00:14:24
attorneys or doctors you know as it
00:14:28
turns out my middle two two of my middle
00:14:30
Brothers became Boston firemen and so we
00:14:33
had two policemen two firemen and one of
00:14:36
my brother Tom worked for the public
00:14:37
utilities for the the light company so
00:14:41
we were just a working class family who
00:14:43
went into professions that working class
00:14:46
families went into and my father was
00:14:49
very proud
00:14:50
to sort of push this in that direction
00:14:52
of Public Service
00:14:55
can you imagine how proud to be of you
00:14:56
being the commissioner the top dog and
00:15:00
just the way that you've you handled
00:15:01
some of the things that have been thrown
00:15:03
you away well anything Dom is my oldest
00:15:05
brother Paul was the police commissioner
00:15:08
too for 10 years so
00:15:11
um we had two police Commissioners in my
00:15:13
family which is probably the only family
00:15:15
of a major city police department to
00:15:17
have that accomplishing actually my two
00:15:19
brothers one was a deputy chief on the
00:15:22
Boston fire and one was a district Chief
00:15:24
so we went on to be pretty successful in
00:15:27
our professions As Leaders of each
00:15:29
department so when I look back at my
00:15:32
career and my brothers I just wish my
00:15:35
father was around to see half of what he
00:15:37
was because he would have been proud of
00:15:39
us yeah so what is um what does
00:15:41
commissioner mean exactly you're just
00:15:42
the boss of all the all the police
00:15:44
regions of Boston yeah yeah I mean in
00:15:46
Boston we have 11 priests 11 precincts
00:15:49
across the city we have approximately 2
00:15:52
200 police officers in uniform but we
00:15:55
also have 800 civilians who work behind
00:15:58
the scenes to get you know the job done
00:16:00
as far as human resources the paychecks
00:16:03
the you know fixing the vehicles there's
00:16:06
a whole support staff so literally I was
00:16:10
overseeing the public safety of the city
00:16:13
but also the 3 000 people who were
00:16:15
making that happen I'm just quite an
00:16:17
undertaking it's a big it's a big job
00:16:20
you're spinning a lot of plates yeah it
00:16:21
was but you know I always look back and
00:16:24
you know it wasn't anything that I
00:16:25
really strove to be
00:16:28
um a police commission I love being in
00:16:30
uniform and I was in uniform for almost
00:16:33
33 years I never wanted to be a
00:16:36
detective and not even wanted to work
00:16:37
playing clothes I loved going to calls I
00:16:40
like being in the visible presence of a
00:16:44
policeman and so I was proud of the job
00:16:47
and then you know I dealt with some
00:16:49
difficult tasks that's just the occupied
00:16:51
movement in the city of Boston and then
00:16:54
obviously the marathon and then after
00:16:57
that my commissioner left shortly after
00:16:59
it Ed Davis and Maya Menino who was the
00:17:03
mayor at the time of the crisis
00:17:05
appointed me acting Police Commissioner
00:17:07
and then the new mayor mayor Walsh made
00:17:10
me the permanent police commission wow
00:17:13
what a journey yeah yeah I used to see
00:17:15
the toe it took on my brother Paul and I
00:17:18
say who in their right mind wanted that
00:17:19
would take that job but one thing leads
00:17:23
to another yeah I fell into it yeah yeah
00:17:25
you know I was overwhelmed at first but
00:17:28
you know you grow into the road don't
00:17:30
you yeah well the hardest part and I
00:17:31
joke a lot is you know all I had was
00:17:34
blue outfits police uniforms for 34
00:17:37
years so I think I owned one suit and
00:17:40
one tie so I had to go out and buy a
00:17:42
whole wardrobe so I looked good every
00:17:45
day and you know I I ended up having
00:17:47
like 15 suits and 100 ties and and uh so
00:17:52
the hottest part was finding an outfit
00:17:54
every day when all I had a worry was but
00:17:57
was put on the same outfit for almost 33
00:18:00
34 years yeah in a way I suppose it's
00:18:02
kind of like um yeah there's some some
00:18:04
big Minds that come to mind like Mark
00:18:06
Zuckerberg from Facebook and Steve Jobs
00:18:08
from Apple and they were the same they
00:18:09
they had almost like a uniform yeah they
00:18:12
wore the same same thing every day
00:18:13
because it just took one decision out of
00:18:15
each day for them yeah yeah maybe it was
00:18:17
the same for you um tell us about um
00:18:19
Terry your wife Terry yeah you're still
00:18:22
married it seems like you're very
00:18:23
happily married yeah yeah we'll be
00:18:25
married almost 35 years in another month
00:18:28
you know she grew up in the city and
00:18:31
she's a rising deal part of the city
00:18:34
um you know she very sharp girl
00:18:36
obviously I always joke and well I
00:18:39
shouldn't joke she's a lot smarter than
00:18:40
I am she was Boston Latin girl you know
00:18:44
went on to Simmons College she has her
00:18:46
Masters in English as a second language
00:18:48
and you know I had to work a lot of days
00:18:51
a lot of nights and she basically was
00:18:53
the one home raising the children and he
00:18:56
sort of gave up her career because she
00:18:58
worked for the Federal Reserve Bank
00:19:00
right near Publications this and that
00:19:03
and raised our three children and a lot
00:19:06
of nights I would come home from a rough
00:19:08
night
00:19:09
and I'd be out of gas and she'd be
00:19:11
sitting at kitchen table you know
00:19:14
quiz in the kids on their homework and
00:19:17
and so you know she's a strong woman and
00:19:20
you know a lot of My Success to her
00:19:23
because uh she basically helped raise a
00:19:27
beautiful family for me and all my three
00:19:29
children doing well but I owe that
00:19:32
completely to her and I'm a lucky guy
00:19:35
with a good woman
00:19:36
I feel like um I feel like you would
00:19:39
have been quite
00:19:41
um conscious or uh I
00:19:44
I don't know what I'm trying to say I
00:19:45
I'm guessing like after a hard night
00:19:47
shift or after I had that at the office
00:19:48
you're not the sort of guy that's going
00:19:50
to come home and disengage and just sit
00:19:51
down with a beer and ignore your family
00:19:53
I feel like you would have been quite
00:19:54
quite good at sort of managing and you
00:19:57
know wearing the different hats the cop
00:19:58
hat the family the dad hat the husband
00:20:00
hat I am but my wife see the problem
00:20:03
with me and my wife jokes with me all
00:20:04
the time is I didn't have any females in
00:20:06
my life you know my mum guy was an
00:20:09
infant and my father raised us we had
00:20:12
six boys and so you know she always used
00:20:14
to say be careful what you say your
00:20:18
daughter because I you know I I you know
00:20:20
it it was different like guys we were
00:20:24
guys you know no one ever put the toilet
00:20:27
seat down
00:20:28
there was no need to yeah no one had
00:20:31
clothes on and so you know the whole
00:20:33
environment was such different growing
00:20:36
up in an all-boys family with no Mom so
00:20:39
you know I had to get lectured on on how
00:20:42
to bring up a daughter and you know a
00:20:46
lot of issues around a young female
00:20:48
growing up so you know my wife was thank
00:20:51
God able to handle a lot of that yeah
00:20:53
and so you've got three kids two sons
00:20:55
one daughter um they're all grown up now
00:20:57
in the in their 20s and you you're about
00:20:59
to become grandparents for the first
00:21:00
time yeah my daughter in fact she
00:21:02
initially the game plan for this year's
00:21:04
Marathon that all three of my children
00:21:06
were going to run the race wow and they
00:21:10
were all signed up but then about two
00:21:13
months ago my daughter asked us over for
00:21:15
dinner and she got married in August and
00:21:18
now she's expecting you know I guess so
00:21:20
needless to say she stopped training
00:21:22
because of the safety of the of a
00:21:25
newborn and uh you know so two of my
00:21:28
boys ran so but me and my wife were
00:21:31
excited to be grandparents and it'll be
00:21:35
a new chapter in our life taking care
00:21:37
and helping out her as she starts her
00:21:40
new life and so we sort of joke with her
00:21:43
saying she looks like you know she's
00:21:46
going to have a girl we know and I said
00:21:48
well payback's a
00:21:52
see how you like raising a girl now you
00:21:56
know what I mean yeah it's an exciting
00:21:58
new chapter of your life I guess isn't
00:21:59
it and you seem you seem like really
00:22:01
carving that piece now and just ready
00:22:03
for this chapter yeah I am I am it'll be
00:22:06
fun and you know my wife teaches still
00:22:08
at Catholic School in South Boston two
00:22:10
blocks from my house and you know I'm
00:22:13
always hoping she'll you know relax a
00:22:15
little and retire and maybe now is the
00:22:18
time that we're having a grandchild and
00:22:20
my wife can help raise the the baby how
00:22:24
do you think you'll be different as a
00:22:25
grandfather to how you were as a father
00:22:26
were you quite a strict dad or well I
00:22:29
think I was brought up very strictly
00:22:30
yeah
00:22:31
um I think I was pretty strict I mean
00:22:33
not as strict as my father was I mean
00:22:36
the old school you know if you messed up
00:22:38
you get a kick in your legs yeah I was
00:22:40
raised in a Catholic family as well and
00:22:42
any of the uncles around us could give
00:22:43
us a smack
00:22:44
[Laughter]
00:22:46
I was tough on them you know especially
00:22:49
you know I want them to be successful
00:22:52
and but you know not not overly
00:22:55
stringent at any means and they all grew
00:22:58
up to be great kids you know I had one
00:23:02
daughter they all went through college I
00:23:04
had one go to Harvard one go to Boston
00:23:06
College and my other daughter went to uh
00:23:11
um you know Westfield State which was
00:23:13
pretty good
00:23:15
okay that's my mum hi
00:23:18
mum this is Billy Evans how are you nice
00:23:20
to meet you guys you guys probably ran
00:23:22
similar times what was what was your
00:23:24
time I think I was like 4 55 too
00:23:27
right there
00:23:28
oh good for you you're good oh God she's
00:23:31
gonna be going the whole plane ride home
00:23:33
she's going to be going on about that
00:23:34
he's in the 60s and I beat him
00:23:37
too hard when you walk oh yeah yeah I
00:23:40
was hurting you know yeah I mean I've
00:23:42
had some good races this one I was you
00:23:46
know I feel my hip I I was telling Dom I
00:23:49
was in Toronto four years ago running
00:23:51
and I tripped and I went down and I got
00:23:55
up and I I had hurt my hip and I walked
00:23:59
five blocks back to the hotel and I
00:24:01
called the state department who had
00:24:03
sponsored my trip and I said I wanted to
00:24:04
get back home because I was hurt
00:24:07
the hotel got me a wheelchair put me in
00:24:11
a cab and I hopped on the plane and I
00:24:13
came right home and went right for Mass
00:24:14
General here and I had a broken hip so
00:24:17
they end up putting a rod in four screws
00:24:19
in my hip three years ago and uh no but
00:24:23
I run probably three or four marathons
00:24:26
on it and I feel good but yeah but I
00:24:29
could feel my hip on on Monday just
00:24:32
because of the dampness and the it was
00:24:35
oh is that right you feel it on cold
00:24:36
days yeah it gets into your bones
00:24:39
yeah yeah yeah so I quickly I my two My
00:24:43
Two children man and they did under four
00:24:46
or both of them so I was more happy for
00:24:48
them than the fact I finished and it was
00:24:50
number 60 for me so let's
00:24:54
congratulations yeah yeah do you have
00:24:56
any aspirations to get to 100 or
00:24:58
anything no you know I wanted to get to
00:25:00
60. I hope I I bounced back from this
00:25:03
one I'll keep going you know my sons are
00:25:05
going up to Maine in three weeks there's
00:25:07
the Seacoast marathon and they're gonna
00:25:09
try to do that because they're all
00:25:11
trained up now and they're young yeah
00:25:12
they can probably bounce back but uh you
00:25:16
know I'm gonna go easy for a while with
00:25:18
the hope uh you know bouncing back I
00:25:21
hope to do another couple anyway yeah
00:25:23
fantastic yeah you've still got um Tokyo
00:25:26
and uh Berlin today yeah to get to six
00:25:28
yeah how good okay so you become a cop
00:25:31
you're a cop on the beat for many many
00:25:33
decades
00:25:34
um I suppose there's there's a lot of
00:25:36
things that you you saw and you did that
00:25:38
just sort of roll into one or blur into
00:25:40
another day but there must be some more
00:25:42
memorable or Unforgettable cases as well
00:25:44
well you know growing up here in the
00:25:46
city you know unfortunately you know you
00:25:48
don't deal with a lot of gun violence in
00:25:50
the neighborhoods and nothing bothering
00:25:52
me more to see a lot of young kids dying
00:25:55
on the streets
00:25:57
um you know and witnessing it basically
00:25:59
that stuff always bothers me you know so
00:26:01
we've seen a lot of tragedies and I
00:26:04
don't miss that stuff being out now at
00:26:06
Boston College but a lot of challenges
00:26:09
we were fortunate in this city we've had
00:26:11
12 Sports championships over the last 20
00:26:15
years you know I was able to witness
00:26:17
four Red Sox championships six Patriots
00:26:21
championships Bruins and Celtics and
00:26:23
putting on those parades were always a
00:26:25
challenge for me in those celebrations
00:26:27
but obviously I think the biggest
00:26:29
challenge for me will always be the
00:26:33
tragedy of the Boston Marathon bombing
00:26:35
back in 2013
00:26:37
yeah would you say that's the that's the
00:26:40
event that sort of defined your whole
00:26:41
career yeah yeah I mean you know it's
00:26:45
it's something that well we stick in all
00:26:48
our minds and I think uh yeah and most
00:26:51
definitely that's that's that's the most
00:26:54
uh defining moment yeah yeah to think
00:26:58
because you're a cop and a runner as
00:27:00
well it just had like um a double whammy
00:27:02
sort of effect for you it did you know
00:27:04
being a marathoner and having done the
00:27:07
Blaster Marathon you know at that time
00:27:09
probably 20 times I I know what the
00:27:11
running Community I know the members of
00:27:13
the Boston Athletic associate they are
00:27:15
my pals Dave mcgilvary Josh nems Tom
00:27:18
Grill Jack Fleming and so you know those
00:27:22
all those meetings all that planning I
00:27:24
was deeply involved in and you know
00:27:26
being a lifelong resident of the city
00:27:28
when they blew up a marathon I took it
00:27:31
personal You Know Not only was I a
00:27:34
marathoner I was that was my plan that
00:27:37
that day you know I was in the
00:27:40
leadership position and so I felt an
00:27:44
utmost responsibility to find out who
00:27:46
did this and you know Maya Menino was
00:27:49
the mayor at the time
00:27:51
um you know for him I wanted to get who
00:27:53
did this and so that's what drove us
00:27:56
over those five days and you know and
00:27:58
and you know at the end to be there and
00:28:01
be right on the scene the first one on
00:28:04
the scene and to capture that and put
00:28:07
this to a rest and closure it was very
00:28:09
satisfying to me you mentioned just
00:28:12
before you're on the um the you know the
00:28:13
leadership group so you felt a certain
00:28:15
level of responsibility was there like a
00:28:16
and they shouldn't have been but was
00:28:18
there like an element of guilt or
00:28:19
something that you should have done more
00:28:20
or you you there could have been
00:28:22
somewhere you avoided this happening I I
00:28:24
don't think so I don't think there's any
00:28:26
guilt I mean when you think of it 26.2
00:28:29
miles it's an open air event it's a
00:28:32
family day you know who could have
00:28:35
anticipated oh precisely whatever
00:28:37
happened you know
00:28:38
we were fortunate in the sense that the
00:28:41
bombs went off when they did
00:28:44
because if it went off closer to 12
00:28:47
o'clock that day the crowds were so much
00:28:49
thicker I mean this was four hours and
00:28:52
48 minutes into the race and I looked
00:28:55
back and the crowd had somewhat thinned
00:28:57
out at that point and I always looked
00:28:59
back if they had done it earlier there
00:29:01
would have been so much more tragedy and
00:29:03
but I don't think anyone could have
00:29:07
foreseen
00:29:08
the horror on that street that day and
00:29:11
someone two individuals would be so evil
00:29:13
to pull out what they did and all I
00:29:16
think about is them poor victims who
00:29:18
lost their lives and so many people as
00:29:20
we've seen the other day who lost limbs
00:29:23
and you know have to live with that pain
00:29:25
and suffering the rest of their life
00:29:27
yeah so so run us through the uh the day
00:29:29
for you so Marathon Monday Patriots Day
00:29:32
10 years ago 2013. so you go to the
00:29:35
start line how are you feeling about the
00:29:37
run first of all I feel like it's a day
00:29:38
of two halves for you isn't it yeah I
00:29:40
mean it was a regular you know again
00:29:42
probably my 20th Marathon I went up to
00:29:44
Hopkinton it was a beautiful day I
00:29:46
remember hanging in the gymnasium up
00:29:48
there and getting out and running you
00:29:50
know I felt great it was one of those
00:29:52
races I think I I did a 334 that day at
00:29:55
the marathon and uh I finished my wife
00:29:59
Terry and my son well who was 13 were at
00:30:02
the finish line and you know being a
00:30:04
superintendent my vehicle was like two
00:30:06
blocks away and so I rallied with them
00:30:09
Academy in my car I rode them to my
00:30:12
house and I went down to the local
00:30:14
Athletic Club which is about six blocks
00:30:16
away from my house and was in a hot tub
00:30:19
and we we sponsor all the clubs from
00:30:24
around the world who come to Boston and
00:30:27
and we get them Transportation up but we
00:30:29
also use this health club all of us so I
00:30:32
was in the hot tub talking to a bunch of
00:30:34
offices and we found lost stories about
00:30:36
the marathon and uh and one of my
00:30:39
detectives ran in and said hey boss two
00:30:41
bombs went off at the Finish Line I was
00:30:44
like no way that couldn't happen here
00:30:46
that doesn't happen here in Boston I
00:30:49
thought at first it was a Transformer
00:30:50
maybe blew up yeah because that area
00:30:54
Copley Square had had a few electrical
00:30:57
explosions over the last few years and
00:31:00
but he said no that's what they're
00:31:02
telling me so I got out jumped in the
00:31:04
shower get in my car got home had to run
00:31:06
up three flights of stairs put on my
00:31:09
uniform and within 10 minutes I was back
00:31:11
at the scene and to see you know the
00:31:15
pain the suffering to see the you know
00:31:18
the barriers blown out the windows
00:31:21
it was you know it was surreal to think
00:31:25
that I had run down the street just a
00:31:26
little over an hour ago and to see the
00:31:29
destruction it's something I always
00:31:31
remember but at that point you know I
00:31:34
had to put my policeman hat on and go to
00:31:36
work trying to secure that scene make
00:31:39
sure the victims were all well taken
00:31:41
care and then direct operations to find
00:31:44
out who was responsible for doing that
00:31:46
yeah how do you and um a situation like
00:31:49
that keep cool and composed and not make
00:31:53
any knee-jerk or silly decisions do you
00:31:56
know what I mean like you're surrounded
00:31:57
by chaos and you don't know what's good
00:31:59
no one knows what's going on no I mean
00:32:00
my Police Commissioner was there you
00:32:02
know then other outside agencies the FBI
00:32:05
state
00:32:06
police everyone started coming in to
00:32:09
assist us but you know you had a lock
00:32:10
down the scene you had to sweep the
00:32:12
whole area with bomb technicians but
00:32:15
then we had to set up a command post up
00:32:17
in the Westin hotel close by here and go
00:32:20
to work arranging uh you know to have
00:32:23
security at the hospitals have security
00:32:26
all over them because we had some
00:32:29
terrorists out running around and we
00:32:31
didn't know what the next Target would
00:32:32
be yeah and this is a big focus on the
00:32:35
um the Netflix Stocker series that we're
00:32:37
talking about
00:32:39
just the hunt for
00:32:40
um as they call them um black hat and
00:32:42
white white hat so when when did it
00:32:44
become clear to you that this was um
00:32:46
like a bombing thing and these were the
00:32:47
two the two guys you were looking for I
00:32:49
think we knew it was a bombing thing
00:32:51
that when we were on the scene because
00:32:52
you know you could see parts of the
00:32:54
pressure cooker you could see the BBS
00:32:57
you could see you know elements of it
00:33:00
what was inside that pressure cooker so
00:33:01
we knew it was deliberate action
00:33:04
um but we didn't know who it was until
00:33:06
almost Wednesday of that week when after
00:33:09
we viewed videos along the Finish Line
00:33:12
after we asked people to give us their
00:33:16
phones you know we are able to limit it
00:33:19
down to those two individuals walking up
00:33:23
I think it was Hereford Street by
00:33:25
whiskeys which was the bar there and
00:33:27
we've seen them both walking with the
00:33:29
backpacks and there they separate and we
00:33:32
follow them as they move down outside
00:33:35
the Forum restaurant and uh you know I
00:33:38
think I've seen that video a million
00:33:40
times where white hat literally drops
00:33:43
that backpack at the feet of the
00:33:46
Richards family yeah I still can't get
00:33:49
that thought out of my head that someone
00:33:52
would place a bomb deliberately behind a
00:33:55
young family and deliberately walk away
00:33:57
and blow that family up it's not like
00:34:00
you dropped the damn an hour early and
00:34:02
whoever happens to be there be there but
00:34:05
he knew what he was going to do there
00:34:07
and you know and then the other brother
00:34:09
had just set off the bombs outside uh
00:34:12
you know mouth on Sports and so you know
00:34:15
it that that's when we focused on white
00:34:17
hat black hat
00:34:20
it's unimaginable isn't it really just
00:34:22
like Drop it it feels very personal in a
00:34:25
way like dropping that bag noting the
00:34:27
people that are around you and noting
00:34:28
that they're going to be the victims
00:34:29
yeah I mean it was beautiful young girl
00:34:31
young family you know with everything to
00:34:34
live for and he decides to stand behind
00:34:37
that family and he stood there for a
00:34:40
good five or ten minutes so he knew and
00:34:42
and when everyone looks to the left with
00:34:44
the first bombs going off outside the
00:34:46
forums set off by blackout he starts to
00:34:49
move to the right and that's why we knew
00:34:52
this was our guy and he was probably
00:34:54
only 10 yards away when that whole area
00:34:57
blows up so you know tough to know that
00:35:02
he knew who he was going to hurt hmm
00:35:05
how many how many people did you have
00:35:07
going through footage like you said you
00:35:08
said you put the call out for footage
00:35:10
and everyone's got a phone in their hand
00:35:12
and everyone's recording everything
00:35:13
these days you must have had just
00:35:15
thousands I don't know hundreds of
00:35:17
thousands of hours how big was the team
00:35:19
we had FBI we had State Police forensics
00:35:23
we had Boston we I'm not sure the exact
00:35:26
numbers but we had whatever it took to
00:35:29
to narrow down onto these two guys
00:35:32
amazing
00:35:34
amazing and then um
00:35:36
um the city went into lockdown when the
00:35:39
whole world is familiar with lockdown
00:35:40
now because seven years after that um
00:35:42
the pandemic came along and so
00:35:43
everyone's but this was this was a weird
00:35:46
this I can't imagine what it was like
00:35:48
being on the ground in Boston at that
00:35:49
time it must have been a terrifying time
00:35:50
for all the residents and right just a
00:35:52
bizarre time yeah it was Bazaar you know
00:35:54
during the week you know President Obama
00:35:56
and his wife came to town on Thursday
00:35:58
and then that night is when officer Sean
00:36:01
Collier got shot at MIT and then they
00:36:04
were the the terrorists were on the run
00:36:07
then and I think after that shootout in
00:36:11
Watertown
00:36:12
we got information that they might be
00:36:14
heading to New York and there was a lot
00:36:17
of info out there so you know just to
00:36:19
make sure the city was safe and
00:36:22
surrounding communities because it
00:36:23
wasn't just Boston that was shut down
00:36:25
Watertown was a lot of the surrounding
00:36:27
communities the government may have put
00:36:29
the shutdown on them in place and for
00:36:31
the next probably you know 12 hours
00:36:35
people didn't go out and it was an Airy
00:36:37
time and you know I got to Watertown
00:36:40
around midnight after uh Sean Collier
00:36:42
got killed and for the next 19 hours we
00:36:45
were on the ground in Watertown
00:36:47
searching for that one who turned out to
00:36:50
be white hat all day long you know black
00:36:53
hat was shot and killed in the shootout
00:36:56
and then the brother was
00:36:59
The Manhunt and you know I sort of
00:37:02
spearheaded that for the next you know
00:37:05
um 19 hours and finally we were able to
00:37:08
you know locate them in the boat again
00:37:12
yeah you were you were right there on
00:37:13
the same so there was um it was almost
00:37:15
like a like a wild west type shootout
00:37:17
and then you you called the you made the
00:37:20
call to seize fire uh because you wanted
00:37:21
the white hat taken in alive rather than
00:37:24
dead
00:37:25
you look back there was that the right
00:37:27
decision yeah yeah if it was I think uh
00:37:29
clearly you know we didn't know what the
00:37:33
motives were of these individuals I
00:37:35
don't think we knew
00:37:37
um how big of a terrorist cell it was so
00:37:39
you know if we had just killed him we
00:37:42
would still never know who was behind
00:37:45
this and the ability to take him alive
00:37:48
and to interrogate him and to find out
00:37:50
his motives and to see if this was just
00:37:52
sort of a lone wolf where the two
00:37:54
brothers I think turned out to be
00:37:56
instrumental and but I didn't want him
00:37:58
killed you know we had way too much
00:38:01
information together and uh as it turned
00:38:04
out I thought it turned out well what
00:38:07
are your thoughts on um right yeah yeah
00:38:10
what are your thoughts on the death
00:38:11
penalty are you for it against it well
00:38:13
growing up as a Catholic yeah I was
00:38:15
never fired because our religion is
00:38:16
against it but I have mixed emotions on
00:38:19
this one because I seen how treacherous
00:38:23
they were how evil they were and the
00:38:25
fact that white hat deliberately stood
00:38:28
behind that one family and did what he
00:38:30
did if there was a reason to have it
00:38:33
this is the best reason to have it but
00:38:35
you know morally I'm against it but I
00:38:38
think there has to be occasionally an
00:38:40
exception to send out that we won't tell
00:38:44
we won't tolerate terrorism in such evil
00:38:48
access these two brothers committed yeah
00:38:50
yeah yes I might say um black hat the
00:38:52
brother that got shot and then run over
00:38:54
got off lightly you know I think a a bit
00:38:58
of punishment is to sit in a Cell for a
00:39:00
number of years to think about what
00:39:01
you've done and then yeah face your own
00:39:03
demise right right and you know again
00:39:05
two evil persons who brought terrorism
00:39:08
to Boston and I'm just was happy as a as
00:39:11
a marathon and as a resident of the city
00:39:14
and as a policeman to be instrumental in
00:39:18
in capturing them and I remember one of
00:39:20
my good friends Callum line who was a
00:39:22
deputy on our job he said it's almost
00:39:24
like the marathon Gods wanted you at the
00:39:26
final scene to get the person who was
00:39:29
responsible yeah on the final scene
00:39:31
being let the boat and Watertown yeah
00:39:33
literally was the first one on the boat
00:39:34
yeah yeah so we'll just rewind a little
00:39:37
bit so the um the Obama visits visit so
00:39:39
Obama was President at the time and he
00:39:41
came when the when the you know the
00:39:43
search was still underway was that it
00:39:45
like from your perspective was that
00:39:46
annoying at the time well it was like a
00:39:48
distraction it was just because we were
00:39:50
so tired yeah we were flat out and
00:39:52
normally putting on a presidential visit
00:39:54
by itself is quite an undertaking but to
00:39:57
put it on in the middle of a terrorist
00:40:00
uh on the loose in your city it was that
00:40:04
much more draining you know and then him
00:40:06
and his wife went to five different
00:40:07
hospitals working with the Secret
00:40:09
Service it was just probably one place
00:40:13
long time but do I miss it turned out he
00:40:16
gave a great speech a uniting speech
00:40:20
that really rallied the city so I looked
00:40:23
at it as a drain on our resources but it
00:40:26
was very instrumental in bringing the
00:40:29
city together and hailing the city
00:40:32
yeah so the so that that week I'm just
00:40:35
trying to put myself in your shoes like
00:40:37
how much sleep are you getting were you
00:40:38
sleeping at all no I bet I'm lucky I got
00:40:41
10 hours a week and you know with my
00:40:43
adrenaline was pumping you know I'd go
00:40:45
home when I ran the race
00:40:49
um you know
00:40:50
I was up probably at four on Monday
00:40:54
first time I went to bed was 10 o'clock
00:40:56
on Tuesday night so I think I was awake
00:40:59
for probably 36 straight hours and then
00:41:01
every night after that was three or four
00:41:03
hours because we were all running on
00:41:06
fumes just thinking I had just run
00:41:08
26.2 miles and I didn't go to bed for
00:41:11
almost 36 hours but to tell you the
00:41:14
truth I didn't feel my legs I was just
00:41:16
running on pure adrenaline yeah so so
00:41:19
Watertown where the um where the the
00:41:21
shootout happened uh with the boat
00:41:24
um where is you have to excuse my
00:41:25
geography where's Watertown from where
00:41:27
we are now in Central Boston well
00:41:29
Watertown about Boston up by Newton so
00:41:32
if you picture where Heartbreak Hill is
00:41:35
it's probably only a couple miles from
00:41:36
there okay so it's not far off the route
00:41:38
but I don't know Watertown yeah because
00:41:41
you know I grew up as a city kid I
00:41:43
didn't Venture far out so when I got
00:41:45
word that they were chasing in Watertown
00:41:47
and there was the shootout I had no clue
00:41:49
where I was going out there and even
00:41:51
when I was Incident Commander I was in
00:41:54
an area I was very
00:41:57
unfamiliar with with the streets and
00:42:00
where I was but I was able to take
00:42:02
control and run that whole final scene
00:42:05
so yeah so because the search had been
00:42:07
done around Watertown did someone
00:42:10
up did someone not look in the boat that
00:42:11
should have looked on the boat I think
00:42:13
anyone ever looked in the boat I don't
00:42:14
know if that was off the grid but you
00:42:17
know all of a sudden I got word from a
00:42:20
Watertown cop that they had word that
00:42:22
someone was in the boat and we quietly
00:42:25
went up and I walked down the alley and
00:42:28
I seen someone poking at the heat seal
00:42:31
or the wrap at the boat so I was on
00:42:33
first one literally on that boat with
00:42:35
two of my offices and uh we were able to
00:42:38
uh you know work with the FBI hostage
00:42:42
recovery team we threw flash bangs in
00:42:44
the boat we flew smoke grenades and
00:42:46
finally we were able to negotiate with
00:42:48
them when we got him out and so was a
00:42:51
successful conclusion yeah how does it
00:42:52
how does that negotiation look well I
00:42:55
think it just said you know you know
00:42:57
they were dealing with them come on come
00:42:59
on and uh you know whatever the the FBI
00:43:02
said to him
00:43:10
it was just a matter of him coming out
00:43:12
and I remember them getting them out and
00:43:14
wearing them by me you know he was
00:43:16
wounded shot in the neck and all bloody
00:43:19
and you know I remember saying to the
00:43:21
FBI hostage recovery is that our guy and
00:43:25
they said yep 100 that's a guy it was
00:43:28
the most uh you know successful
00:43:31
conclusion that we could have had and
00:43:33
you know but it was the conclusion of
00:43:35
105 hour ordeal for all of us and I was
00:43:39
just glad it was over how many bullets
00:43:42
were fired into that into that boat it's
00:43:43
probably lucky that he got away with his
00:43:45
life in a way yeah it was I mean I was
00:43:47
screaming for everyone to stop sharing
00:43:49
probably they you know when people
00:43:51
estimated maybe as many as 200 but but
00:43:54
we're able to get them out and bring it
00:43:56
to a successful conclusion and I was
00:43:58
never so relieved in all my life when
00:44:00
they wheeled them by me and we got
00:44:03
finally got the two people respond
00:44:05
has been just a huge sense of relief and
00:44:08
then did you go and see him in hospital
00:44:10
well it's funny you know I went up to
00:44:13
watch the Red Sox game where you know
00:44:15
Big Papi addressed the crowd and then I
00:44:18
went by the Beth Israel Hospital where
00:44:20
he was just to make sure it was very
00:44:23
secure there and I went up outside his
00:44:25
room and there were several policemen
00:44:27
outside the door and they said to me
00:44:29
boss do you want to take go in and see
00:44:31
him and take a look at him I said I
00:44:33
don't ever want to see that guy again I
00:44:36
says you know I was disgusted with what
00:44:38
he did I had seen him come out I seen
00:44:41
him at the boat but I didn't I had such
00:44:44
disgust that I didn't want to open that
00:44:46
hospital room and take a peek at him
00:44:48
because you know I had no respect for
00:44:51
the guy I'm not going to honor him by
00:44:53
thinking he's a role model or something
00:44:55
and I said to my office I don't ever
00:44:57
want to see him again no I don't need to
00:44:59
see him so I did go by the hospital but
00:45:02
I'll be damned if I'm I'm gonna take
00:45:04
pecan Yeah Yeah you mentioned yeah you
00:45:07
swung by the hospital after being at um
00:45:09
Fenway Park for a Red Sox game is that
00:45:11
where you got acknowledged on the on the
00:45:13
field yeah everybody did yeah Big Papi
00:45:16
said you know they blew up our effing
00:45:18
City and and uh it was quite emotional
00:45:21
for me when they played God Bless
00:45:22
America and
00:45:24
um you know they had a collage up on the
00:45:26
big screen of of uh the city and what it
00:45:29
went through and I remember tears almost
00:45:31
coming to my eyes because it was such an
00:45:34
emotional five days
00:45:38
it's just unimaginable yeah and then um
00:45:40
how do you how do you de-stress after
00:45:42
that
00:45:43
uh like what what happened what what
00:45:45
what what are the you know the days the
00:45:47
weeks the months after that look like
00:45:48
well it was tough you know you know my
00:45:50
wife was on me about the mental health
00:45:52
training you know I end up speaking to a
00:45:54
fellow at Harvard who specialized in
00:45:56
dealing with aftermaths of terrorism and
00:46:00
sort of you know uh
00:46:02
sort of
00:46:04
um like mental health and you know I
00:46:06
told them what I went through and after
00:46:08
going through the whole idea he I said
00:46:11
to him
00:46:12
um doctor what's your advice he says
00:46:14
just keep running just keep running
00:46:16
that's your medicine and so and my wife
00:46:19
I think when I told her that said you're
00:46:21
kidding me
00:46:23
I feel like you must be paraphrased
00:46:27
you don't need to be told to keep on it
00:46:30
but that like I said earlier here that's
00:46:32
my medicine that's the way I deal with
00:46:34
stress and I continue to run and that's
00:46:37
why at age 64 almost 65 I hope I run
00:46:41
until I'm 9 hopefully yeah yeah you're
00:46:44
doing you're doing great so so no no
00:46:46
real therapy or counseling or anything
00:46:48
to speak of no no just didn't feel like
00:46:51
you need it what do you have like a like
00:46:53
a resilience plan or is it just running
00:46:56
yeah I suppose like discipline as well I
00:46:59
suppose that comes into it like your 4
00:47:00
30 starts that you've done for years and
00:47:01
years and years yeah yeah it's
00:47:03
discipline it's being out there and you
00:47:05
know I think when we're your Runners at
00:47:07
the end of the day when you put your
00:47:08
head on the pillow usually you don't
00:47:10
have a problem sleeping because you're
00:47:12
putting out a long day you know you know
00:47:14
as a police commissioner I was running
00:47:15
on two or three hours of sleep most
00:47:17
nights so you know I built up a good
00:47:19
tolerance to not getting a lot of sleep
00:47:22
and as as marathoners when something
00:47:25
tragic like the Boston happens I think
00:47:28
being in that type of shape helped Carry
00:47:30
Me Through those five days
00:47:32
but I just can't imagine what this um
00:47:35
compounded stress over all these years
00:47:37
has done for your cortisol levels or you
00:47:39
know your heart rate and things like
00:47:41
that and so your blood pressure you're
00:47:44
in good shape you get a medical and oh
00:47:46
yeah yeah you know I see a cardiologist
00:47:48
I keep on top but you know I remember
00:47:50
the week after I had to go to the
00:47:53
dentist because my teeth were killing me
00:47:55
after the balmy and I went in and he
00:47:57
said nothing wrong with your teeth he's
00:47:59
like you're just grinding your teeth
00:48:00
after the week you had and so I remember
00:48:04
going to the dentist and that's that's
00:48:05
how bad I I must have been under stress
00:48:08
you know I had to go to the dentist
00:48:09
because my I was just grinding my teeth
00:48:12
so but I you know I I try to medically I
00:48:15
knew this stressful job I was in I I
00:48:18
always made sure I I got as I do now
00:48:22
regular checkups even before running
00:48:24
this Marathon you know I I got a good
00:48:27
double check up I might call it
00:48:28
cardiologist just to make sure I'm okay
00:48:31
to go over those the Heartbreak Hills of
00:48:33
Boston and what about what about
00:48:36
nightmares and stuff when you when you
00:48:37
shut your eyes at night and you go to
00:48:39
sleep yeah any bad dreams about the
00:48:42
things you've seen and well I I you know
00:48:44
I think once in a while you know whether
00:48:46
it's the young kids getting shots on the
00:48:48
streets of Boston or going to a tough
00:48:52
car accident where you see some terrible
00:48:53
things I've seen you know children
00:48:56
burned up in fires I've seen a lot of
00:48:58
tragic things and you know I think again
00:49:01
running's the key to my success so you
00:49:04
know I've talked to counselors over the
00:49:05
years
00:49:07
um you know I don't think anyone should
00:49:09
be afraid to seek Mental Health Training
00:49:11
and it's beneficial to me yeah and you
00:49:14
know every study you hear everything you
00:49:16
read sometimes say
00:49:18
aerobic exercises is great for mental
00:49:21
health and I think that's why we all get
00:49:24
addicted to running
00:49:25
physically and it feels good mentally
00:49:27
yeah it clears your mind it's it's funny
00:49:30
because it feels like everyone's known
00:49:32
about the physical health benefits of
00:49:33
running but it feels like it's only a
00:49:34
recent thing like last 10 or 20 years
00:49:36
that you know you realize uh just the
00:49:38
the goodness it brings from the neck out
00:49:40
it's incredible hey I mentioned on um my
00:49:43
Instagram page to my mostly New Zealand
00:49:46
um fans that I'm meeting with you today
00:49:48
I've got a bunch of questions from them
00:49:49
to put to you
00:49:50
um how has this case affected your
00:49:52
perspective on life society and humans
00:49:54
as a whole well I think
00:49:57
it hasn't really you know I think most
00:50:00
if not all people have Good Will in
00:50:03
their heart and we all look out for each
00:50:04
other but unfortunately
00:50:07
um you know there's people out there who
00:50:09
sometimes get radicalized who will act
00:50:11
out like these two brothers did I think
00:50:14
the problem in a lot of our world is you
00:50:17
know mental health is a big issue you
00:50:19
know I think you see here especially in
00:50:21
America way too many violent incidents
00:50:24
with guns and and so you know
00:50:28
99.99 people are good but unfortunately
00:50:32
you have some people who are evil and I
00:50:35
think we've seen it in this case yeah
00:50:37
yeah what are your thoughts on gun
00:50:39
violence in America it's tough you know
00:50:41
as police commission Boston I was
00:50:43
dealing with it and you know we have
00:50:46
major cities who you know have kids
00:50:48
young kids getting killed in the streets
00:50:50
every day and it breaks my heart to see
00:50:53
it and I wish we we could do more not to
00:50:56
take away people's second Amendment
00:50:58
rights but to be stricter and have
00:50:59
Universal gun laws so we can keep guns
00:51:03
out of young kids hands who
00:51:05
who take you know take each other's
00:51:08
lives a senseless time yeah because
00:51:11
we're the situation I don't you may have
00:51:13
heard about that so maybe on your radar
00:51:15
there there was a like a mosque shooting
00:51:16
in New Zealand a few years ago on March
00:51:18
15 and
00:51:19
um just a again like a lone wolf gunman
00:51:22
went into these mosques and shot 50
00:51:24
Muslims dead and our government
00:51:25
immediately implemented this gun by
00:51:27
backscape
00:51:28
um but the issue is it hasn't really
00:51:31
worked because what you've got is good
00:51:32
people who are legally entitled to have
00:51:34
these guns
00:51:36
um doing the right thing and then bad
00:51:37
guys with guns they're not doing the
00:51:39
right thing yeah so it's a tough one
00:51:41
isn't it but you know
00:51:43
I'm a big Advocate the less guns we have
00:51:45
overall in society the better because
00:51:47
what we find in America is
00:51:49
65 percent of the gun Dancer by Suicide
00:51:52
really and so having a gun around the
00:51:54
house sometimes gets into the wrong
00:51:56
hands or someone who's having a mental
00:51:58
health crisis has access to a gun and
00:52:01
they committed so you know if that guy
00:52:03
wasn't in the house a young kid might
00:52:05
not have picked it up or young you know
00:52:07
so I I'm I'm a big Advocate the less
00:52:10
guns uh
00:52:12
um in a gun by back yeah a lot of people
00:52:15
say it's a gimmick but if you can get a
00:52:18
gun out of a house that doesn't get into
00:52:19
hands of a young child it's a good thing
00:52:22
okay that's an interesting interesting
00:52:24
to speak of and good way of looking at
00:52:25
it
00:52:25
um someone asked the question in
00:52:27
hindsight would you do anything
00:52:28
differently
00:52:29
I suppose this pertains to the bombing
00:52:30
not really I mean obviously we wish we
00:52:34
uh could have prevented it yeah but we
00:52:37
didn't have information enough to do
00:52:39
that uh I think the response was
00:52:41
unbelievable I think you know uh within
00:52:45
20 minutes uh 270 people were taken from
00:52:48
the scene and everybody taken from the
00:52:50
scene survived so the response the
00:52:54
training the preparation was good no one
00:52:56
could ever foreseen what could have
00:52:59
happened and I think the response was
00:53:01
was a good response you know yeah being
00:53:03
at the final boat scene you know I wish
00:53:06
obviously we lost a little control with
00:53:10
so many officers responding to the scene
00:53:11
I think we could have did a better job
00:53:13
there
00:53:14
but I was just happy have to after five
00:53:18
grueling days that we were able to get
00:53:20
the two people responsible yeah not good
00:53:22
stuff and the uh someone asked the 2014
00:53:25
marathon one year anniversary how on age
00:53:27
were you
00:53:32
so you didn't run that yet no because I
00:53:35
became Police Commissioner it was my
00:53:36
responsibility to make sure that race
00:53:38
was safe and I in my right mind couldn't
00:53:42
be out enjoying the day when I was so
00:53:45
concerned about the security and safety
00:53:48
of the residents of the city so I
00:53:50
remember walking the route
00:53:52
the last two miles up and down up and
00:53:55
down making sure everything was locked
00:53:57
down and I'll always remember Meb
00:54:00
kablesky when he ran by me I was at
00:54:04
Beacon and Park Drive and it gave
00:54:06
everyone Goosebumps because an American
00:54:08
was going to win the race the year after
00:54:11
the bomb and you talk about Good Karma
00:54:13
it really Boston Strong for an American
00:54:16
to win it a year that set the tone and
00:54:20
everybody was thrilled with the way the
00:54:23
day went and and and talk about Karma
00:54:26
the same year the Red Sox went on to
00:54:28
will the will so Boston came together
00:54:31
all as far as an American win in the
00:54:33
race the Red Sox you know put on a new
00:54:37
and that you know a more secure Marathon
00:54:40
but it was it was a stressful day for me
00:54:43
yeah no doubt as as Boston Strong always
00:54:45
been like a Boston slogan or is that
00:54:48
something that was created here right
00:54:50
you know I think the way the city
00:54:52
rallied around the victims the way the
00:54:54
city rallied around law enforcement the
00:54:56
way everyone came together that model
00:54:59
came about in you know when I was
00:55:02
running the other day with a mile to go
00:55:05
under painted on a an underpass year
00:55:08
round is Boston Strong and it just
00:55:10
brought back a lot of good memories for
00:55:12
me when I had a mile to go and sort of
00:55:14
pushed me that last tough mile believe
00:55:16
it or not and you know even when I was
00:55:18
running this day and my legs were
00:55:21
hurting I was thinking of the victims
00:55:23
and the pain and the suffering they went
00:55:26
through and I'm like this is nothing
00:55:27
compared to what they did and it brought
00:55:29
me through those last couple of grueling
00:55:31
miles yeah someone asked on Instagram
00:55:35
um in regards to Black at white hat um
00:55:38
is there an update on the rest of the
00:55:39
family
00:55:40
you know I don't care I'm down with them
00:55:43
yeah
00:55:45
it's tough though in a situation like
00:55:46
that that wasn't like imagine how
00:55:47
embarrassing it is someone in your your
00:55:49
own family does something as heinous as
00:55:51
there it's awful
00:55:53
someone that could be that evil
00:55:56
um
00:55:58
any ideas about what we can do to stop
00:56:00
someone turning into a criminal
00:56:02
ah
00:56:09
darling I think there's you know but
00:56:13
again unfortunately people have mental
00:56:15
health crisis that you know uh you know
00:56:18
they act out in these cases they were
00:56:21
radicalized by their religion and so I
00:56:23
think the key thing we really preach
00:56:25
here if someone knows about someone who
00:56:28
might be involved in criminal activity
00:56:30
or terrorism you know if you see
00:56:32
something say something that's the big
00:56:34
model here you know we're finding more
00:56:36
and more that there's usually some early
00:56:38
warning red flags
00:56:41
that could have prevented these these
00:56:44
events whether it's an active shooter
00:56:45
event or whatnot so you know if you're a
00:56:47
mother your dad or if you're anybody who
00:56:50
sees someone who has a mindset that is
00:56:53
going to do something terrible all we
00:56:55
ask is they call and let us get them the
00:56:58
help they need yeah absolutely
00:57:01
um someone asked the question what did
00:57:02
police learn from the Reddit stuff
00:57:04
during The Manhunt they touch upon this
00:57:06
in the um the Netflix documentary I
00:57:08
think it's just about people doing
00:57:09
almost like like jigsaw journalism
00:57:12
basically like trying to piece together
00:57:13
what happened on the yeah I mean I don't
00:57:16
give that a lot you know they gotta
00:57:18
leave us leave the drive to us there's
00:57:21
too many Monday morning quarterbacking
00:57:23
as we call it yeah right right everyone
00:57:25
wants to be a criminal uh analyst and
00:57:29
you know leave it to the trained people
00:57:31
yeah
00:57:33
um someone wants to know there's in New
00:57:35
Zealand at the moment there's um a huge
00:57:36
problem with youth crime in particular
00:57:38
Spate of ram raids so you get these kids
00:57:40
they steal a car crash it into a shop
00:57:42
and go nuts
00:57:44
um what would your solution be for that
00:57:46
let me again I think it it's basically
00:57:50
you know you got to call these kids in
00:57:52
and and and try to talk to them about
00:57:55
you know
00:57:56
the disorder they're cause and then
00:57:58
maybe even talk to the parents and get
00:58:00
the parents in the community involved
00:58:02
because it shouldn't be a police issue
00:58:04
I've found everyone always relies on the
00:58:06
police to solve it but it's more of a a
00:58:09
public health issue that the community
00:58:11
has to come together and stop it be you
00:58:13
know whether it's their parents getting
00:58:15
involved in their lives and giving them
00:58:16
opportunities but you know it shouldn't
00:58:19
be just the police dealing with these
00:58:20
kids it should be a community issue and
00:58:22
it should be the parents yeah oh that's
00:58:25
a great answer
00:58:26
um one thing we see
00:58:28
um reported a lot when it comes to
00:58:29
American cops in new zealanders um
00:58:31
racism and there's the George Floyd
00:58:33
thing a few years ago what are your
00:58:35
thoughts on that racism
00:58:36
Well I obviously I think policing has a
00:58:40
history of racism in their past and you
00:58:42
know I think George Floyd and a lot of
00:58:44
events here in America brought that uh
00:58:46
to light and I think you know American
00:58:49
policing is changing a lot of the
00:58:51
tactics you know a lot of policing are
00:58:52
going unconscious bias training fearing
00:58:56
and partial policing and you know we
00:58:58
learned a valuable lesson that you know
00:59:00
police officers have biases out there
00:59:02
and we need to correct them and we
00:59:04
should be fair and impartial no matter
00:59:06
what color religion Creed whatever you
00:59:09
are and so
00:59:10
um you know terrible time in policing
00:59:13
over the last couple years and I think
00:59:16
police
00:59:17
started to train better and and realize
00:59:20
the mistakes of the past
00:59:22
there and someone wants to know about
00:59:24
the movie uh Patriots Day which is um
00:59:26
The Mark Wahlberg movie about the Boston
00:59:28
bombing who played you by the way were
00:59:30
you in the were you cast of the movie at
00:59:32
all yeah I was someone James Corby who
00:59:34
was a local Hollywood actor who grew up
00:59:37
in the city played me uh James he was a
00:59:41
good guy unfortunately he passed away
00:59:42
about a year or two ago suddenly but
00:59:45
um you know you're happy with him is the
00:59:47
casting are you shooting for Brad Pitt
00:59:48
well I was short for Alice
00:59:51
he wasn't available so we end up going
00:59:55
with James and that thank you by the way
00:59:57
can you imagine Arnold tried to do a
00:59:58
Boston exit but you know Mark Wahlberg
01:00:01
it was neat working with him with guys
01:00:03
and working with Peter Berg who was the
01:00:06
director but you know again it all comes
01:00:09
down to remembering the victims you know
01:00:11
as I look over this and sort of
01:00:14
um to sort of wrap up a little bit uh I
01:00:17
think we can never forget what this was
01:00:19
all about it was about tragedy that
01:00:21
happened on that day it's about
01:00:23
remembering you know the the four
01:00:25
victims who lost their lives to these
01:00:27
terrorists and and more importantly
01:00:29
Boston coming together to address uh
01:00:33
what was a horrible event on the streets
01:00:35
of our city and so I always say there
01:00:37
was no Heroes here it was everyone
01:00:39
pulling together when the city was down
01:00:41
and out to raise it up to you know put
01:00:45
Boston on the map as Boston Strong
01:00:48
that's a nice conclusion
01:00:50
um yeah just a couple of final ones
01:00:52
about the uh the Netflix thing though
01:00:53
yeah so you've seen the three it's only
01:00:55
come out a few days ago but um you've
01:00:57
seen the three episodes you're mostly
01:00:58
happy with it anything that you said
01:01:00
that was um admitted that your wish was
01:01:02
in there no
01:01:04
I think they did a good job portraying
01:01:09
you know
01:01:11
you know it's again it was very
01:01:13
emotional for me to watch those three
01:01:15
days and um you know I watched it with
01:01:17
my son and my wife who are very
01:01:20
emotional over it and you know you know
01:01:23
it was a sad day in Boston and it
01:01:25
brought back a lot of poor memories for
01:01:27
me and and uh you know but I I thought
01:01:30
it was you know they had a lot of video
01:01:34
that I had never seen a lot of things I
01:01:36
hadn't known about and so a lot of it
01:01:39
was eye-opening for me too but I thought
01:01:42
from what I've seen and you know it was
01:01:45
a realistic uh sort of snapshot of what
01:01:48
happened yeah and you I mean it's only
01:01:50
been a few days since it's been up now
01:01:52
no doubt it's going to be a hugely
01:01:53
popular documentary that's consumed all
01:01:55
over the world
01:01:57
um you haven't noticed a difference like
01:01:59
your inbox hasn't been I mean you've got
01:02:00
a podcast request from New Zealand yeah
01:02:02
yeah well a lot of people have been
01:02:04
texting me and uh you know uh email me
01:02:08
just saying hey
01:02:10
um you know we appreciate all you did
01:02:12
and you know you were great in it you
01:02:14
know you came across as genuine and you
01:02:16
know more uh emotional and but it was
01:02:20
emotional time for me and as I look back
01:02:23
when they did that interview was it's
01:02:25
something I'll never ever get over it's
01:02:27
you know and I don't think the city will
01:02:29
ever get over it so uh yeah some people
01:02:32
have have said some complimentary things
01:02:36
but again it's not about me it's about
01:02:38
those victims that day and those who
01:02:41
still live with those injuries all right
01:02:43
hey oh Billy Evans AKA Mass aka William
01:02:47
former police commissioner of Boston and
01:02:50
uh one of the central figures in the
01:02:51
whole uh Boston bombing aftermath thank
01:02:54
you so much for coming on my podcast
01:02:55
today I really appreciate it well thanks
01:02:57
for having me I hope you had a good time
01:02:58
in Boston and uh you know you come back
01:03:01
soon
01:03:01
[Music]
01:03:15
thank you