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D hinwood welcome to my podcast hi it's
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a pleasure to be back it's actually been
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a while it has it's been like a a yeah
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last time we had you on was the um early
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in
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2023 uh shortly after you went public
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with Jackie Brown on um the project
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about your cancer diagnosis and I was
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all a bit nervous about about being sort
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of public with things and one I'm stuck
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I'm still here feeling good and and
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looking okay and uh also you've grown as
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well so it's pleasure to be back oh it's
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great to have you and when not only are
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you still here like since then um you
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see you've gone from being diagnosed
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with cancer in 2020 spending the first
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sort of three years of your diagnosis
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and the sort of Darkness I I suppose
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just coping with it since then you put a
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book out which focus on it focuses on it
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and a three-part documentary series
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which is just gone to here yeah they
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they were both two things that um I
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really wanted to
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I suppose on a selfish level give to my
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family leave as a legacy whether I'm
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here whether I'm not and also to be able
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to to help with the public people who
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are going through a similar thing people
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who know people who are going through
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cancer or chronic illness cuz once I'd
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done that interview with Jackie Brown on
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the
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project and people contacted me and they
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I was like [ __ ] actually this is
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resonating with people and sharing my
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story a few things I've learned my
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perspective was resonating with people
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and and since the Dockers started going
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to air I've been contacted by patients
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and even by people who whose family
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members have passed away and said
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watching this gave me a frame of
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reference for what they were going
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through um they might have been people
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who who you know weren't articulate I'm
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blessed of this as my job articulating
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my feelings is my job so being able to
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put it out there and and help people is
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so atic and that selfish thing of sort
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of by helping other people you you help
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yourself yeah so we're recording this on
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a Wednesday so the the final episode of
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Liv and Let Die goes to Air Tonight on 3
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so by the time this podcast comes out
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anyone that hasn't seen it you got to
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watch it it's on three plus it's it's
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it's masterful actually just before we
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we came here for the podcast today I was
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in a the cafe down the road and um
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you're on the front page and there's a
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big review in the entertainment section
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and it's a great review but I'm
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wondering like even if was a [ __ ] review
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would that bother you no what this is
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the weirdest thing I've done you know I
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I think back to probably one of the more
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nervous shows I had going to air was
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when I did Family Feud like I'd moved to
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because people were investing in a 5:30
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game show I was a late night comic no
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one we had a bit of cultural cringe so
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you know like the second the ratings
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come out how how are we doing oh God I
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don't want to look at the reviews with
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this it's like I don't really care what
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the ratings are like and you'd you'd
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have to be pretty Savage to give it
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a rough review like like it's it's a bit
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easier it's a bit easier to give my
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comedy a rough review than this so but
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but then I was just reading someone sent
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me a review I think it was The Herald
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Review or the spin-off review and just
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the beauty that people have have written
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about it have made me feel so blessed
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and also
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I let it all hang out like I let it all
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hang out my rule to myself was I'm going
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to just live and do everything and I
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don't care what I look like and I'll
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Trust these people who are making the
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show to not make me look good but to to
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carry it with some
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sensitivity and Justin Hawks who
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directed it was masterful uh Dom Freya
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who shot it it's just beautiful
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it uh my wife watched it which um I I
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sort of that that was the person I was
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most worried about about seeing it she's
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very private person um and obviously
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she's been the person who's really been
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wearing this diagnosis with me and she
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she really liked it and and it it
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touched her and she said this
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conveys the heaviness of what being in
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treatment is like and this conveys this
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roller coaster of of emotions and plus
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everyone's reached out on Insta and
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emailing me and I've tried to get back
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to everyone and and it's just been
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beautiful so thanks to everyone who's
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watched it yeah it's an outpouring of
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love I mean it's just it's it's [ __ ]
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sad to watch because it's just a it's a
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a reminder that you know [ __ ] things
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happen to good people and you you are a
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good person I was going to ask you about
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your wife yeah because she had your
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mom's very prominent in it um and we'll
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get into your mom what a delight oh yeah
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um but your wife yeah and your kids are
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in it as well to to a degree but um not
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your wife was that so it's very
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interesting cuz it was like
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um it was a conscious decision my wife
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not really being in it she's in a small
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FaceTime in it and then it was like oh
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is it like conspicuous that if she's not
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in it like is everything okay with you
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guys sort of thing but then it was like
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no this is our life she is a private
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person I'm a I'm a public person and I
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think it conveys both in the book and in
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the in the doco how much I love my wife
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and how how amazing she has been for me
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but also she's a different person and I
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I need to respect her her sort of
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boundaries and and her wishes around it
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too so when when did you first get a
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copy of the uh the show to watch when
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did you get the Vimeo link did did did
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you watch it with your mom and your wife
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or it was
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so the weird thing was I made this with
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friends right so everyone it's well I
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mean it's like you know working in this
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industry long enough whether it be radio
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or TV you meet people they become your
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mates and you end up sort of working
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here and there with them so when it
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first was edited I remember going out to
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South Pacific pictures who I produced it
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with and sitting in a little theater
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there just me and the um directors it's
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very different to when you make another
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show I say let's get some beers some
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pizzas we'll get people around we'll
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watch it have a watch party this is like
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[ __ ] this is pretty heavy bro let's just
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have two of us yeah and watched
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it
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and it was so
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emotional but
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also so uplifting for me cuz I was
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like so nervous about what it was going
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to be and then I was like this is
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exactly what I wanted it to be
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and then my best friend Mikey Carpenter
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graded it which is like
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making colorizing it so giving it a
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flavor and and an even color and all
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that and I had to go in and watch each
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episode separately with him CU he he's
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the guy who drives me to every chemo and
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stuff so it was hard and huge for him uh
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to do it so watching it was tough and
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then um got the Vimeo link then of
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course always nervous cuz I'm like okay
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now Mom M's got to watch it I hope she's
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happy with how she comes across yeah
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it's very personal and then Mom was
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really happy with it and Mom's a super
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proud person and so so she was awesome
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and um I was just sto my daughter was so
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cute in it as well I and your son he
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seems geez the Apple doesn't fall far
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from the
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tree um yeah there's some light moments
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in there like you mentioned Mikey
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Carpenter um so he drops you off to
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chemo and he's gives you a hug and says
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have a good one um just kind of what
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you're saying weird you you don't think
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about that till after right yeah and
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then there's like Brenan love grve like
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having a Dary in front of you like okay
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you just mentioned my favorite part the
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whole he has to be the only one in a
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cancer documentary smoking a cigarette
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was that was that for comedy so it
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wasn't
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in number two he's smoking
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inside which hasn't happened since like
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the two 2000s the best part is it's not
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in the Doo we're standing the gigs about
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start he gets his name gets called he
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hands me a cigarette so I'm holding a
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cigarette he storm runs off then he
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comes back and oh [ __ ] [ __ ] uh this a
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cancer dog I've just given a go cancer
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or cigarette um uh just
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H so from a personal point of view
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that's my favorite moment in it but the
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awesome thing is cuz I've got the the
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comedy element of it and it it it traces
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me building up for the show at the state
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opera house it's a nice tool to bring a
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bit of levity and just a change of pace
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from the the heaviness of sort of the
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chemo shots and then um a lot of the
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stuff that happens in Japan is so
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emotional as well so the comedy is a
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nice vehicle in there and also it's a um
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it's nice to show how your work material
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from a tiny little place in devonport
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through to a a sort of big 1 and a half
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thousand Ceder down in Wellington yeah
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and and that was special I'm getting a
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standing ovation at the end oh that that
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was that that theater so special to me
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that standing ovation
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was the most emotional part of my comedy
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career
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and what was the the absolute cheery on
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top was that that standup show I was so
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proud of on a creative level so it
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wasn't like hey these people are
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clapping me for my body of work and for
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the entertainment I've done over the
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last 20 years the show was awesome like
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the hit rate of laughs for that whole
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show was huge the um Samantha hu warmed
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up for me and Justine Smith were amazing
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so it was an awesome show as well so
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it's cool having a show you're super
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proud of plus the outpouring of emotion
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and this whole thing has shown me and
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I've I've since done that show up in
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Oakland and I did it went down to Christ
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Church and did it and it's cool you know
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in this world now that's quite feels
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quite divisive with you know everything
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that's going on in the Middle East
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America to to an extent New Zealand but
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thankfully not as much but you know
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political parties feel more divided
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people feel more
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divided seeing everyone come together
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and have a laugh and then I'm meeting
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people who are from completely different
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walks of life might have completely
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different political views but we're all
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just having a laugh and that's like [ __ ]
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humanity is good souls are good and and
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it's it's been a bit of a tonic for me
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just seeing how many beautiful people
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there are out
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there yeah but I mean that yeah that's
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that's sort of a community that you've
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built by because you know you you um you
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radiate love so I suppose it comes back
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to you and it's uh it's welld deserved
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and that's that's the thing is I love
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and and positivity and there's a fine
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line though
00:11:55
between positivity and sort of toxic
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positivity if that makes any sense like
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there is a bit in the um spiritual sort
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of community or um I almost call it
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conspirituality
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online there's also sort of a sort of
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conspiracy spiritual element of people
00:12:16
who are selling snake oil and that there
00:12:18
can be quite a lot of toxic positivity
00:12:20
of no you've just got a smile it's going
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to be okay and just gen General
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positivity I have [ __ ] times I cry I
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deal with anger and all the same
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emotions everyone does but I've just got
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to a place where I can realize that
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that's just part of my sort of climate
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if you will and it changes anger comes
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and goes like rain does and happiness
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comes and goes and and I've got a little
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toolbox of how to how to keep myself
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happy in hard
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times yeah when did you last cry there's
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there's a lot of lot of Tears in this
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documentary a like it's the most Raw and
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vulnerable and open and honest I've
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never cried I I have never cried in
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front of someone before and then I went
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well I certainly have Chang i' certainly
00:13:08
changed that is this your first time
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crying on TV on any yeah yeah yeah yeah
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yeah um
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I I I mean as weird weirdly the only
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time I used to cry in front of people
00:13:23
was um when I was a PID and you get a
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bit emotional at the end of the night
00:13:29
if you're on the
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J and
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um this I didn't plan to cry and I had
00:13:40
some of the biggest cries I've ever had
00:13:43
but what this this whole diagnosis has
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taught me and um and my wife sort of
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taught me as well is [ __ ] a big cry can
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sort things out oh it's cathartic isn't
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it so like just when you feel it
00:13:59
building up and now I'll get to a point
00:14:02
where I've been having a lot of tension
00:14:04
around scans or like um I'll go back to
00:14:08
this but [ __ ] [ __ ] got a lot worse for
00:14:10
me after that documentary on the cancer
00:14:12
side of things
00:14:15
and when stuff's going bad I can feel it
00:14:17
building up and I'm like oh right a cry
00:14:20
is coming I just need to get sort of get
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home and just let it happen and um some
00:14:29
with same with my wife and it's
00:14:30
something I've learned now is going oh
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no if someone's having a big cry my
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partner's having a big cry I don't need
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to make them
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better which is a very I think it's
00:14:42
quite a guy thing is we need to solve
00:14:45
problems we need to fix things I just
00:14:48
need to be there for her so and then
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that same with me is I've just got
00:14:54
to cry and get it out what are they are
00:14:57
they like frustration tears sadness
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tears gratitude tears at times um it's
00:15:04
sadness and anger a lot like um so after
00:15:10
the doco finished I got back from Japan
00:15:13
Japan was sort of the last major part of
00:15:17
the doco that we we shot and then I got
00:15:20
back and my breathing got really bad and
00:15:23
just before Christmas I went and saw my
00:15:26
oncologist and saw that um I had a tumor
00:15:30
sort of on my Airway that was starting
00:15:31
to to to close off my right lung and so
00:15:36
I went back into chemo and that knocked
00:15:38
it back but not quite
00:15:39
enough and then um I had a little break
00:15:44
from chemo and then my lung collapsed um
00:15:47
cuz the the the right lung got cut off
00:15:50
so the top of my right lung collapsed
00:15:52
and so then I went into hardcore
00:15:54
radiation and then I just recovered from
00:15:57
that and now I'm back into to Cho my
00:15:59
breathing's a lot better but so the
00:16:02
tears come
00:16:03
from the reality of things and just the
00:16:08
can I just get [ __ ] have a break like
00:16:10
can I just get a break cuz it's like
00:16:16
every appointment is bad news it's not
00:16:19
it's like can I
00:16:21
just once go along hey things are going
00:16:25
pretty good at the moment we're stable
00:16:27
let's just step some time off you know
00:16:30
it's like no right get back in the
00:16:33
trenches I've just finished round 28 I
00:16:36
think it is of chemo which I worked out
00:16:38
means in the last four years I've been
00:16:41
I've done basically a year straight of
00:16:44
chemo CU it happens in two week Cycles
00:16:47
so between that and then when I TI it
00:16:50
all off of like six major surgeries
00:16:53
and countless days of radiation and that
00:16:57
I'm like [ __ ] the time what I've gone
00:17:00
through in the last four years
00:17:02
considering I was a I consider myself a
00:17:05
healthy person pre cancer right I'd
00:17:07
always go to the doctor for checkups but
00:17:11
I didn't have a lot of serious ailments
00:17:13
you know and then now I've definitely
00:17:17
got my oncologist on speed dial yeah
00:17:21
yeah I got I have got a good context
00:17:24
list of Specialists tell you there yeah
00:17:26
you were you I remember like we used to
00:17:28
I used give you Kudos on straa like
00:17:30
pre-diagnosis you were building up your
00:17:32
running um you'd come in for interviews
00:17:34
when we were on the radio and you're
00:17:36
obsessed with Cups of Tea like you were
00:17:38
very um yeah you were very Zen yeah I
00:17:41
was and i' sort I've sort of embraced
00:17:43
that and
00:17:45
um there's a runner actually who's
00:17:48
become an inspiration for me who's been
00:17:51
through some serious cancer stuff um
00:17:53
Tommy rivs I think oh yeah yeah I know
00:17:55
Tommy like an ultra marathon he's
00:17:57
incredbly incredibly handsome and a a
00:17:59
beautiful aesthetic on his Instagram
00:18:01
page as well oh um how he's one of those
00:18:03
guys I looked at his Instagram page and
00:18:05
you know you go well I've been doing
00:18:06
this wrong you know what you go he's
00:18:09
thought his entire every post so col
00:18:13
matches and but so he he had like a Ser
00:18:16
he's only got like something like 20%
00:18:19
lung
00:18:20
capacity and and he's back Runner these
00:18:25
huge um things and as people like that
00:18:28
were I
00:18:29
just he's someone who just grabs life
00:18:32
you know and it's people like that and I
00:18:36
I I look at people like him and that
00:18:39
as as mentors in a way I've got lots of
00:18:42
mentors who I don't know you know
00:18:45
because now with the the beauty of
00:18:48
podcasts of social media you can
00:18:51
actually get to
00:18:53
learn about people and they can become a
00:18:56
mentor without having to meet up with
00:18:58
them if you know what I mean you can
00:19:00
take inspiration from them yeah pick
00:19:01
their brains sort of vicariously yeah
00:19:03
yeah um yes so the physical stuff so you
00:19:06
touched upon the six major surgeries and
00:19:08
as we saw on the TV a massive massive
00:19:10
back Sky yeah massive um yeah you you
00:19:15
you you show everything and it's
00:19:16
incredible yeah cuz I didn't want
00:19:20
to I suppose I didn't want to gloss over
00:19:24
anything and I didn't want to dwell in
00:19:27
anything I just wanted it to be pretty
00:19:28
straight up and honest yeah I've got
00:19:31
these scars I got one that's sort of
00:19:33
like half an angel one cuz I've had
00:19:35
three lung surgeries one they went
00:19:37
through my back the other went they went
00:19:39
through under my right Peck and
00:19:42
um on the other ones on the other side
00:19:45
so I got two uh two different surgeons
00:19:48
did them and it was interesting cuz when
00:19:49
I got the second one she was the um she
00:19:52
goes I bet you I can see you up better
00:19:54
than the they had a little rivalry and
00:19:57
then when I went to see a me un nailed
00:19:59
that like just fan yeah and she's look
00:20:03
look at that so A
00:20:05
buter and yeah
00:20:08
that that was what I was nervous about
00:20:10
is I got the got the call from Justin
00:20:12
and he's hey how do you feel about sort
00:20:14
of being naked in the studio and we film
00:20:17
your
00:20:18
scars and you know of course that's like
00:20:22
oh
00:20:23
I'm want to be in good shape and then
00:20:26
I'm just like actually I'd just be just
00:20:29
be me
00:20:31
and I'm stoked I did that and it's also
00:20:35
it's a reminder for me as well when I
00:20:38
watched it of going wow you've gone
00:20:42
through all that and you got a smile on
00:20:43
your face so that's Primo yeah you're
00:20:48
man you're so you're so
00:20:49
resilient um so where are things at now
00:20:51
with the chemo you're you're on chemo at
00:20:53
the moment yeah so so I did last week
00:20:57
chemo
00:20:59
so basically say like I'll do it on a
00:21:01
Wednesday it takes two days to infuse it
00:21:05
4 hours in the hospital and I take away
00:21:07
a little baby bottle that's in a little
00:21:10
um Lululemon bum
00:21:12
bag erotically the best no this is this
00:21:16
is the funny thing right so I um go do
00:21:19
like the colon cancer Reddit and I'm
00:21:22
like right cuz cuz every every cancer
00:21:24
has different type of chemo right some
00:21:27
people just do it one day for a certain
00:21:30
cancer then you'll go back for for bowel
00:21:32
cancer you typically take it away for
00:21:34
two days in a baby bottle so I'm like
00:21:36
hey what's the best like bum bag for
00:21:41
these and then so many replies and
00:21:43
they're like okay you got to get the
00:21:45
small Lulu Lemon one I think they only
00:21:48
sell it out of the store in Canada but
00:21:50
it fits the bag it fits the bottle
00:21:52
perfectly ordered it it's the best thing
00:21:55
my God and oh you're walking around
00:21:58
you're around um the chemotherapy where
00:22:02
hey where' you get that that's perfect
00:22:05
size wasn't endorsement yeah so so it's
00:22:08
amaz I don't know if the when they
00:22:09
designed it they thought that that was
00:22:11
the exact perfect thing for it and
00:22:15
um and so you build up like this sort of
00:22:18
toolbox of things so yeah I take it away
00:22:21
for two days and infuses for 48 hours
00:22:24
plugged into my chest um and then I'll
00:22:27
go back so so start on a Wednesday go
00:22:30
back on Friday get unplugged then the
00:22:33
real hard time start cuz you're off the
00:22:37
sort of intense drugs that keep you
00:22:40
pepped up and everything going so you're
00:22:42
detoxing from the drugs and your body's
00:22:46
detoxing the chemo cuz it's like if
00:22:49
you're on a bender on the piss for two
00:22:51
days and your body's just trying to get
00:22:52
rid of the poison so everything's
00:22:55
working
00:22:56
overtime and then by Sunday I have
00:23:00
usually sort of
00:23:02
come right for me I have
00:23:06
found when I'm in my sort of chemo time
00:23:10
and that if I'm fasting and sort of
00:23:14
there's some interesting science now
00:23:17
around keto and carnivore sort of
00:23:20
stuff and its positive effects around
00:23:23
chemotherapy and and so forth so I've
00:23:25
been investigating that and I found for
00:23:27
me I cannot for anyone else everyone's
00:23:29
journey is different for me that has
00:23:32
massively helped me get out of the The
00:23:36
Fog quicker and then by Monday I'm sort
00:23:38
of okay on Sunday I'll
00:23:41
start hitting ice bath and sauna to get
00:23:45
my
00:23:46
blood going in and out and for me I
00:23:49
found um in my for my
00:23:52
brain when I get depressed or start
00:23:55
spiraling with mental
00:23:57
health I'm I need to change my state so
00:24:00
I need to get in cold or really hot and
00:24:04
that just shakes me and um I don't know
00:24:09
any of the science around ice baths and
00:24:11
that but for me it makes me mentally
00:24:13
feel good so I do it and yeah it's that
00:24:16
it's building up the toolbox and because
00:24:18
I've been in this game now for 4 and a
00:24:20
half years the toolbox is getting
00:24:23
better yeah that's a lot of chem said 28
00:24:27
28 29 yeah 20 I think I I think it's 28
00:24:31
I've just done my 28 so you do it then
00:24:34
you have a break then you do it again
00:24:35
and you it's like a s but done you've
00:24:38
managed to do all this work as well like
00:24:39
with half your calendar block you know
00:24:41
blank out yeah I've just looked and
00:24:44
somehow during the next four rounds of
00:24:46
chemo I'm doing a seven days
00:24:48
tour uh I'm better at booking things now
00:24:51
around it so I do it in
00:24:54
six
00:24:55
six uh chunks six um chemo chunks which
00:25:00
is roughly 3 months right so I was
00:25:03
like I wanted to start sort of September
00:25:07
and then get through to December and the
00:25:10
beginning of December I'll do my last
00:25:12
round so I could then just take a break
00:25:15
over Christmas and New Year and then
00:25:18
gauge how things are and it is that the
00:25:21
plan is
00:25:22
just to stay on the road until there are
00:25:26
some more advancers m M
00:25:29
and things are moving in the cancer
00:25:33
space
00:25:34
weirdly AI
00:25:36
is actually this is cancer is one of the
00:25:40
things AI is going to massively help
00:25:43
because it can just the computational
00:25:44
thing is it can just
00:25:46
run run all the different models of
00:25:49
drugs and it can sequence genes heaps
00:25:52
quicker and that and the the aim I
00:25:54
suppose talking to a lot of cancer
00:25:57
researchers is in a way not trying to
00:25:59
cure cancer is trying to get cancer to a
00:26:02
point like diabetes where it's a chronic
00:26:05
illness but you can manage it so they're
00:26:09
trying to find a combination of
00:26:11
potentially drugs that are out there
00:26:13
that already exist that you can combine
00:26:15
to take to just keep things
00:26:18
stable so like how are you today like
00:26:21
you see you seem good you look good
00:26:24
you're articulate you're sharp that's
00:26:25
the thing
00:26:28
that that question there is what people
00:26:31
need to ask people with cancer not the
00:26:33
big so how are you more like how you
00:26:38
doing this morning man cuz today I'm
00:26:40
great you know if You' asked me that on
00:26:42
Saturday oh was [ __ ] I was in bed today
00:26:45
I'm great we had planned a a trip to to
00:26:49
see some family over in Sydney tomorrow
00:26:51
I'm going to the Grand Final NRL Grand
00:26:54
Final with my wife and two kids so it's
00:26:58
cool I've got some excitement to look
00:27:00
forward to but then I land back in New
00:27:03
Zealand Tuesday afternoon and I go on to
00:27:05
chemo Wednesday morning
00:27:07
so my timelines are so different now and
00:27:12
that's often where tears come
00:27:14
from is from
00:27:18
jealousy of
00:27:20
seeing like you know like a
00:27:23
mate a mate would text um like like like
00:27:27
Bryce Casey is good mate he texts hey do
00:27:29
you want to play golf and then he's like
00:27:31
oh I can't I'm in chemo and that's for 5
00:27:35
days you know and then so it's just
00:27:38
those little things then I'll be sitting
00:27:40
Kemo going oh he's just left working
00:27:43
sunny out there and he and and I suppose
00:27:46
that that jealousy
00:27:48
thing
00:27:51
of seeing
00:27:53
people just living everyday lives and
00:27:56
that gets Amplified
00:27:58
by social media because Instagram is the
00:28:02
highlights of everyone's day so I have
00:28:05
to be very careful like for
00:28:08
instance I'm going to turn off my email
00:28:12
turn off delete Instagram off my phone
00:28:15
and so when I'm on holiday I'm just in
00:28:17
the moment creating my own memories with
00:28:20
my family and then when I'm in chemo I
00:28:22
try not
00:28:24
to look at Instagram and that cuz it
00:28:27
just Sparks you know fomo yeah the the
00:28:31
worst kind of fomo not the fomo where
00:28:33
you're just at home and you're not at
00:28:34
the party the
00:28:36
fomo you're having chemo and everyone
00:28:39
else is rocking he said cho fomo cho
00:28:42
fomo ion Bryce case he probably knew and
00:28:44
he thought oh this is a chance to like
00:28:46
beat
00:28:48
D yeah do you go all right do you go all
00:28:51
right with the
00:28:52
golf for how long I've been playing
00:28:55
definitely not definitely not th hey
00:28:58
this is a this is an example golf's one
00:29:01
of them and ukulele is one of them for
00:29:03
me right I reckon everyone should have
00:29:07
something that they do as a hobby that
00:29:10
they're [ __ ]
00:29:11
at that they never want to do publicly
00:29:15
right I love performing I love playing
00:29:18
the ukulele and I'm so bad at it and the
00:29:22
I would never want to do it on stage but
00:29:25
I love doing it by myself someone
00:29:27
everyone should have a hobby for them
00:29:29
that's just for themselves paint it
00:29:33
doesn't matter if you're [ __ ] at
00:29:34
painting and for me that's a good outlet
00:29:37
and I don't know why I still play golf
00:29:40
I've been the same level of [ __ ] for
00:29:44
like 10 years but I really 10 years oh
00:29:48
oh you've done your 10,000 hours I've
00:29:50
done oh you're going to drop it son look
00:29:52
I am living evidence that Malcolm
00:29:54
Gladwell is a liar
00:29:59
oh it's enjoyable though isn't it I
00:30:01
reckon I played very little golf but you
00:30:03
know you can have like a hundred [ __ ]
00:30:04
shots and then one where you just
00:30:06
connect and it doesn't hurt and it makes
00:30:08
that sound and the ball flies where you
00:30:10
imagined it was going to fly and that's
00:30:12
enough to get you back yeah and that
00:30:14
that is what I do it and also I do it
00:30:16
because unfortunately with a lot of the
00:30:19
the lung stuff like for me my meditation
00:30:23
exercise thing was like running and as
00:30:27
you know when you step out of running
00:30:30
say for 3 months that first run is like
00:30:33
hold on how do I used to just bang out
00:30:36
20ks 3ks is feeling pretty rough you
00:30:40
know and for me now with the lung stuff
00:30:42
it's like oh
00:30:45
actually this is not a push through
00:30:47
moment this is a you know this is a look
00:30:50
after yourself moment so I'm aware how
00:30:53
important for your mental health and
00:30:55
your physical health getting some
00:30:56
exercises so for me like
00:30:59
golf is sort of slow exercise but I'll
00:31:03
go and walk for 4 hours you know now now
00:31:06
I'm sort of more I'll walk the dogs and
00:31:09
do and do bigger walks and now I'm
00:31:13
starting to to breathe a bit better I'm
00:31:15
looking at sort of getting into the to
00:31:17
the runs and like my um my son's liking
00:31:21
a bit of running so we want to first
00:31:24
goal is to try and do you know do a bit
00:31:26
of training do a park run
00:31:29
together the little 5K cuz I discovered
00:31:33
Park runs when I was sort of trying
00:31:35
to not drunk get off the piss slowly and
00:31:39
as a tour and comma cuz like oh I'm in
00:31:42
Melbourne look at a park run Edinburgh
00:31:45
there's a park run you know and then you
00:31:47
could have these things that you could
00:31:48
just keep track of all around the world
00:31:50
and then oh there's one in Western
00:31:52
Springs you know so and it's cool cuz
00:31:56
5Ks is a 5Ks I believe is a great
00:32:01
distance for an amateur runner cuz it's
00:32:05
that it can either be a real challenge
00:32:07
if you're getting into it or if you're
00:32:09
in the Rhythm that's something you can
00:32:12
really push for you to B A
00:32:15
Time yeah no it's great anyone that
00:32:17
hasn't done a park run I recommend you
00:32:18
do it um yeah they have them all around
00:32:21
the world it's free logs your times it's
00:32:23
pretty brilliant and there's also I
00:32:25
noticed it's really a real cool crew of
00:32:30
people show up to those things it's neat
00:32:32
it's a tribe he yeah it's a tribe um so
00:32:36
yes so the chemo does it get any easier
00:32:39
you know how most most things you do in
00:32:40
life like say you're scared of a bungee
00:32:42
jump you do a bungee jump by the time
00:32:43
you've done 28 29 bungee jumps you know
00:32:46
it's is is that is that how us with
00:32:48
chemo or no is it
00:32:50
difficult the so the first nine rounds I
00:32:54
did um was the heaviest Kemo done and it
00:32:58
was this drug uh I'm probably not
00:33:01
pronouncing it correctly it's oxy
00:33:03
plantin and it gives you neuropathy so
00:33:06
where um any change in temperature feels
00:33:10
like electric shock so I was wearing
00:33:12
gloves to get milk out of the fridge um
00:33:16
an
00:33:17
amazing thing is that's the chemo Dean
00:33:21
Bara was on and I was talking to him
00:33:23
about it and he was Bloody training for
00:33:25
the America's Cup while doing it so he
00:33:27
like heated gloves and stuff while he
00:33:29
was out on the water because it gives
00:33:32
you this um this
00:33:35
neuropathy then I moved on to one that
00:33:38
is what I'm doing now is
00:33:43
slightly easier in terms of it doesn't
00:33:45
have that side effect but it doesn't get
00:33:48
easier some rounds are easier than
00:33:50
others
00:33:52
but that has no Rhyme or Reason like
00:33:56
I'll sometimes I'll be [ __ ] I'm not in
00:33:58
the zone for this I'm just going to
00:34:01
struggle then I don't find the round
00:34:03
that hard and then other times I'll feel
00:34:06
like I'm dialed in and the round will be
00:34:11
epically hard so n unfortunately it does
00:34:15
never gets easier because in this
00:34:17
documentary you say it's um chemo is a
00:34:18
5-day punishing hangover hardest thing I
00:34:21
voluntarily done I suppose you to
00:34:23
continue that analogy you know sometimes
00:34:25
you can you can drink and you wake up
00:34:26
the next day feeling fine other times
00:34:28
you have like three beers and you wake
00:34:29
up with their hangover no it's
00:34:30
completely like that yeah when you're
00:34:32
like oh I didn't even drink that much
00:34:34
why do I feel you don't drink that much
00:34:36
and you're like [ __ ] this is lingering a
00:34:38
couple of days or no it's it's exactly
00:34:41
like that and I just liken it I think to
00:34:44
booze because it's your liver
00:34:47
processing poison when you drink too
00:34:50
much alcohol and but the sad thing is
00:34:52
you don't have any of the the good times
00:34:56
around it and I've also buil
00:34:58
up I use the term toolbox a lot like I
00:35:02
now have
00:35:04
found there's a drug like a a sort of
00:35:07
anti-anxiety drug called lorazapam that
00:35:10
that people might be familiar with I've
00:35:13
found that now I take
00:35:15
that a small dose of that before I go
00:35:17
into chemo a small dose of that at the
00:35:20
end of the first infusion and it's
00:35:22
almost like a bit of an amnesiac it
00:35:24
helps me sleep it takes away uh cuz you
00:35:28
get associative nausea with chemo so
00:35:32
I'll get nausea pulling into the car
00:35:35
park before I've even got the chemo
00:35:38
because your body's like this is where
00:35:41
this is where it goes down that that
00:35:42
helps with that I I sort of only
00:35:45
discovered that around round 20 so you
00:35:48
know and then once I had that I was like
00:35:50
oh wow this is a game changer and it
00:35:52
also combats the um you have a drug
00:35:55
called dexamethasone which a give you
00:35:58
which is the drug that um Donald Trump
00:36:01
took when he got
00:36:02
Co and he took so much makes you quite
00:36:06
crazy he took not that he needs more of
00:36:09
that he was crazy before that and he
00:36:11
took a heavy dose of that right and he
00:36:13
ordered a Superman suit sent to the
00:36:15
hospital cuz he wanted to walk out of
00:36:17
the hospital rip his normal suit off and
00:36:20
he had a Superman suit on underneath at
00:36:23
his eyes there's a great New York Times
00:36:25
article on this at his eyeses
00:36:28
intercepted the suit and managed to talk
00:36:30
him down cuz this it's almost like
00:36:34
methampetamine
00:36:36
like it you feel so it's a heavy steroid
00:36:40
so it's what helps is antor it keeps all
00:36:43
your organs going but
00:36:46
um coming it means it's very hard to
00:36:48
sleep this lorazapam sort of helped that
00:36:52
um medical marijuana alongside that so
00:36:56
you do get you do figure out and you
00:36:58
also find out your limitations you know
00:37:01
of going when I need to lie down when I
00:37:04
need to rest what food makes me feel
00:37:07
[ __ ] what food makes me feel good you I
00:37:09
mean before before the cancer you were I
00:37:12
think quite in tune with your body I
00:37:13
guess you're even more so now but do you
00:37:15
have like how do you how do you get up
00:37:16
for each round like you um from a mental
00:37:19
perspective the hardest thing is after
00:37:22
so
00:37:24
now I'm going say weake out from doing
00:37:27
another one
00:37:28
but I'm still in the phase where I if I
00:37:31
think about it I'm like I can't do it I
00:37:34
can't do it but then I find a couple of
00:37:37
days out I'm like
00:37:39
oh I think I can do this and
00:37:43
then it's
00:37:46
inevitable it's just there and then I
00:37:49
break things down into chunks
00:37:53
of okay just got to get home and have a
00:37:56
rest you know know I plan a few shows
00:37:59
I'm going to watch I take it
00:38:02
easy and um then I come out the other
00:38:05
side and then it's that mental thing of
00:38:07
okay I've done three out of the six and
00:38:11
because you can only do chemo if your
00:38:14
Bloods have come back to a level because
00:38:17
it kills so many of your healthy blood
00:38:21
cells right so you have these things
00:38:22
nutrifil and you need them above a
00:38:24
certain level to do the chemo so after
00:38:27
I've done four rounds of chemo I have an
00:38:30
extra week break so I have two weeks in
00:38:32
between rather than one week so now I'm
00:38:34
like right I'll get to that fourth one
00:38:37
now I got two whole weeks you which to
00:38:40
most people are like two weeks but to me
00:38:42
I'm like two weeks man that's huge what
00:38:45
am I going to do I'm might write another
00:38:47
book definitely not writing books is
00:38:50
very H do you think um when would it get
00:38:53
to the point where you think n that's it
00:38:55
I'm done no more chemo I'm I'm just done
00:38:58
can't face another
00:38:59
round you're talking the dock about
00:39:01
thing called cheemo resistance like do
00:39:04
yeah you I'm sure you'll get to that
00:39:06
chemo resistance point before you you
00:39:09
give up yeah so well I mean I an example
00:39:12
is I I do chemo alongside a drug called
00:39:15
a vastin which um mck with a blood
00:39:18
supply to tumors
00:39:21
and this chemo is working less than it
00:39:24
did at the beginning and then I've got
00:39:27
enough drug chemo and it's not chemo but
00:39:30
it's administered alongside chemo that I
00:39:33
can move on
00:39:35
to and then I think that might be the
00:39:38
last drug I can the last option I have
00:39:42
in that on that sort of toolbox that
00:39:46
that Arsenal so
00:39:48
I at the moment I can do it because for
00:39:51
me three month blocks is manageable
00:39:55
right six is manageable and then have a
00:39:59
have a breath recalibrate get everything
00:40:03
back as as sort of healthy as it can be
00:40:07
and then and then go again and then I'm
00:40:10
constantly researching I'm constantly
00:40:14
looking you know I'll
00:40:15
spend I'd reckon I'd average an hour to
00:40:18
two hours a day reading medical papers
00:40:21
researching
00:40:22
things you know
00:40:25
um I've become uh
00:40:28
huge cat GPT guy just how good is that
00:40:33
just
00:40:34
for you know I'll get 10 PDFs on a
00:40:38
certain thing around cancer put them all
00:40:41
into chat
00:40:43
GPT analyze what are the what are the
00:40:46
commonalities between these things and
00:40:49
i' I've
00:40:50
found AI when you're actually when you
00:40:53
are giving it a corpus of data so it
00:40:56
can't hallucinate by going on the web
00:40:59
and making things up it's it's it's
00:41:01
amazing and it's a great leveler because
00:41:04
it means it can interpret a three page
00:41:07
scientific
00:41:08
PDF I'm not qualified to read and it can
00:41:12
put in layman's terms then if I see
00:41:15
something interesting from the outcome
00:41:17
I'll will go and double check it and all
00:41:19
that and for
00:41:21
me I'm a I'm a curious person so that
00:41:26
helps me and I'm always keen on
00:41:29
trying new things trying diet
00:41:33
interventions trying maybe some offl
00:41:35
label drug
00:41:36
interventions that as long as they're
00:41:38
not conflicting with my standard of care
00:41:41
and I run everything past my
00:41:43
oncologist I'm I I'll do it cuz I then I
00:41:47
feel like I've got some agency over it
00:41:49
I'm actually advocating for my own
00:41:52
health and is it is shown that people
00:41:55
who people who buy into their own thing
00:41:58
and become active
00:42:00
patients have better
00:42:02
outcomes rather than just passively
00:42:05
doing what they're told I sort of do
00:42:09
what's recommended but I like to cheuck
00:42:11
on my own to Cent I think that's the
00:42:14
right thing to do as well like it's a
00:42:15
there's a quote from I think Socrates
00:42:17
that um you know you're a fool if you're
00:42:19
not your own doctor yeah um and the
00:42:22
information's out there so you should
00:42:23
explore it 100% And also it's that thing
00:42:25
of
00:42:28
don't people shouldn't be scared of
00:42:29
things I'll
00:42:31
read stuff like something might might be
00:42:35
considered snake oil or there might be
00:42:38
it might be an off Lael drug that people
00:42:40
are using and then everyone's like why
00:42:42
no that's all conspiracy it's all
00:42:44
[ __ ] and then I'm like well why are
00:42:47
the why is this huge community of people
00:42:49
using it so then I'd like to investigate
00:42:52
that and it's keeping an open mind on
00:42:56
everything
00:42:57
I think cuz you don't have to do it but
00:43:00
you may as well investigate it giving
00:43:03
yourself every possible chance for a
00:43:05
successful outcome isn't it yeah
00:43:08
and for me it's doing something it feels
00:43:11
like
00:43:12
I'm I'm not just sitting there I'm
00:43:16
actually making an effort and I do I do
00:43:19
try things and
00:43:21
and if they work they work or if they
00:43:23
make me feel better they make me feel
00:43:25
better and it is just being in
00:43:28
tune with your body being in tune which
00:43:32
I I was but I wasn't at the same
00:43:35
time oh I think yeah pre-cancer I think
00:43:38
you probably
00:43:40
were you probably weren't compared to
00:43:42
how you are now but compared to most
00:43:44
people you definitely were yeah which re
00:43:46
which is also a bummer in its own its
00:43:48
own way and it shows how something can
00:43:52
just creep up and that's the freaky
00:43:56
thing about I I I was contacted a couple
00:44:00
of days ago by someone marathon
00:44:03
runner clean
00:44:05
eer smoo in their face off they're in
00:44:08
the same situation as me right they
00:44:12
didn't have your history of boozing as
00:44:15
much as I did that they were your glass
00:44:18
of wine at a wedding person you know and
00:44:21
they're in the same situation at me so
00:44:23
it is a leveler you know and it's
00:44:27
worrying I have no answers as to why
00:44:30
this is but it's really worrying how
00:44:34
prevalent cancer is
00:44:36
amongst people under 50 and I mean who
00:44:41
knows there's no cancer does not have
00:44:44
one
00:44:46
cause unless you're sort of asbestos
00:44:49
related or something like that it seems
00:44:51
to have multi causes and then you go who
00:44:54
knows seems to be quite prevalent in
00:44:56
this Gen X sort
00:44:58
of
00:45:00
uh you know but then when I look back at
00:45:03
the amount of weird Tupperware we were
00:45:05
putting in the microwave and
00:45:07
stuff there's probably no
00:45:10
surprises yeah yeah [ __ ] it's a lot mate
00:45:14
yeah that's a [ __ ] lot when when did
00:45:16
when did your last cry it's actually
00:45:19
been a
00:45:20
while for me weirdly when I'm in when
00:45:24
I've started chemo
00:45:28
I feel quite
00:45:30
resilient it's
00:45:33
almost um almost so I either read Zen
00:45:37
books or books about SAS dudes going
00:45:40
hard out
00:45:41
and so I love too there's no middle
00:45:44
ground like reading your Mitch RS and
00:45:47
your Jo yeah Jo just all these sort of
00:45:51
hard out
00:45:52
guys and um I liking it a bit like that
00:45:56
like it feels like when I'm in
00:45:58
chemo I've put my kid
00:46:01
on and we're flown in and I'm on a
00:46:04
mission you know let's [ __ ] go let's
00:46:07
[ __ ] go let's get through this this
00:46:10
is the end zone then when I get to the
00:46:13
end that's when I deal with a PTSD of it
00:46:16
all and well that's that's
00:46:18
understandable that's cuz you're broken
00:46:20
right yeah and then I can have a cry and
00:46:22
sit back but also it's a cry of like I
00:46:25
did it m got through it like my tumor
00:46:30
markers were high you know like like an
00:46:34
an example of how perspective
00:46:37
changes for bow cancer they monitor a um
00:46:41
thing called
00:46:42
CA and um for different people it reacts
00:46:47
differently but for me when my CA is
00:46:50
high
00:46:52
it means the tumor's growing like I've
00:46:55
proven the link for for my body and then
00:46:58
I'm like for
00:47:00
me couple of years ago High I'm like
00:47:03
[ __ ] it's 40
00:47:05
right now it's like 260 and I'm like
00:47:09
well that's hot like so getting changing
00:47:12
that perspective of going I was at 40
00:47:15
and I so in a normal a person who
00:47:18
doesn't have bowel cancer you you'd
00:47:19
probably see three or
00:47:21
less um and for me I was like oh 40
00:47:26
right I'll try
00:47:27
get through chemo and get it down to
00:47:30
10 and then it was okay I'll try and get
00:47:32
it now it's like I'll try and get it
00:47:34
under 100 so it's that thing of moving
00:47:38
goalposts yeah the moving goalpost and
00:47:40
what
00:47:41
is what is a win for me now would have
00:47:45
felt like a massive loss you know a year
00:47:48
ago is it just constantly being prepared
00:47:51
to like adjust and change your mindset
00:47:53
yeah and also not to live and die by the
00:47:56
numbers and the scans to actually live
00:47:59
and die by in the morning I'll get up I
00:48:04
like to go and stand on the lawn and
00:48:06
bare feet and just listen to the birds
00:48:08
do a bit of sort of chiong or meditation
00:48:11
and that's when I check in and do the
00:48:14
how am I
00:48:16
feeling how am I feeling right now and
00:48:19
there's a um uh amazing uh person I
00:48:23
think she's from Harvard called Ellen
00:48:25
Langer um
00:48:28
who they're saying if people check in on
00:48:32
themselves more regularly you actually
00:48:34
find you feel better cuz I'll check in
00:48:37
on myself four or five times during a
00:48:40
day and I will go I know I'm you know
00:48:44
four out of those five times I'm might
00:48:45
go I'm actually feeling good and then I
00:48:47
can go no I'm feeling good today it's
00:48:49
like an advanced mindfulness really
00:48:51
isn't it yeah and she she was a she's
00:48:53
done a lot of studies around the
00:48:57
impact words have right which is a lot
00:49:01
why they now don't sort
00:49:04
of work around
00:49:07
timelines telling someone they have 6
00:49:09
months to live influences whether they
00:49:11
live six months or
00:49:13
not you know if you had the same cancer
00:49:17
at the same stage and a doctor tells
00:49:20
person you're you got 5 years mate at
00:49:24
least and goes no you've got six months
00:49:27
that actually influences the
00:49:29
outcome yeah understand language because
00:49:32
people get the Mind Body is all one
00:49:36
thing and how we talk to ourselves and
00:49:38
all that so she she became quite she's
00:49:43
done some amazing studies not just
00:49:46
around cancer on all these uh uh
00:49:48
different things and that's a beauty now
00:49:51
of
00:49:53
information and podcast and I would
00:49:55
never have heard of her M back in the
00:49:58
day but she just stumbled across my
00:50:02
algorithm and completely changed my
00:50:05
thinking gez you you're doing some
00:50:07
phenomenal work in the space eh yeah you
00:50:10
must be like a I mean it's it's
00:50:12
accidental and uh you wouldn't wish it
00:50:14
upon anyone but um you know you're
00:50:17
you're the right person for this uh for
00:50:19
this role at this time what's so weird
00:50:22
is if you saw my school results
00:50:27
you know I would not have thought I'd be
00:50:30
studied looking at scientific papers and
00:50:33
being able to um potentially help people
00:50:36
and stuff and
00:50:39
it's it's the example of the right
00:50:43
person for the right time
00:50:45
never underestimate who you are because
00:50:49
that can change you can become someone
00:50:53
else don't under sell yourself don't
00:50:58
CU I am a better person now I am a
00:51:03
happier person ironically now than I was
00:51:07
when say family few for instance when
00:51:12
I now I've lost so much work over the
00:51:15
last four years I've lost so much money
00:51:18
due to this for having to turn down
00:51:21
projects combined with the fact that the
00:51:23
media Landscapes just changed so much
00:51:25
it's not really a lot of TV projects out
00:51:28
there
00:51:29
but my family few time I was on TV five
00:51:33
nights a week Gigan everywhere earning
00:51:36
great
00:51:37
money having a great
00:51:39
time I'm H I'm ironically happier
00:51:43
now and I have stage four
00:51:47
cancer than I was then because I know
00:51:49
who I am now and I'm happy with who I am
00:51:54
and I'm proud of who I am
00:51:57
I'm proud of who you are too who who
00:51:59
would have thought the kid that um was
00:52:00
obsessed with that sex B in your parents
00:52:03
Library How well thumbed was that oh my
00:52:06
God oh my God do you um yeah yeah we'll
00:52:10
get back to the documentary for a bit so
00:52:12
you you do things like that you're play
00:52:14
playing it up for the camera a little
00:52:15
bit afterwards you're like oh God why
00:52:17
did I do that yeah always why did I
00:52:20
sh and also I saw that again it was um
00:52:23
there's this book sex in the movies that
00:52:26
had some good boobies in it and now I'm
00:52:29
thinking back like wow before the
00:52:32
internet just one picture of boobs went
00:52:35
a long way it did a lot of hard yards a
00:52:39
lot of heavy lifting for many years yeah
00:52:43
God you're um yeah that's in your your
00:52:44
family home which your mom has um
00:52:46
downsized um God what a special lady
00:52:49
yeah I I um yeah I thought thought about
00:52:52
her a lot after watching that so she's
00:52:54
um 78 Dame Carolyn hwood yeah um court
00:52:58
judge so she she lost her her husband
00:53:00
your dad a couple of years ago um now
00:53:02
she's been dealing with this and I'm
00:53:03
sure she's a strong stoic lady but [ __ ]
00:53:06
it's a lot to endure it was for a mom of
00:53:08
one it was huge
00:53:11
because 2019 I lost my dad 2020 I was
00:53:15
diagnosed in the 18 months leading up to
00:53:18
his passing he had dementia
00:53:20
so you basically dementia is but when
00:53:24
someone's in the throws dementia that is
00:53:28
grieving for someone while they're still
00:53:31
alive so we went through
00:53:34
that had
00:53:37
a buried him sort of
00:53:40
August
00:53:43
2019 then you move into summer Co me
00:53:48
being diagnosed April right at the the
00:53:51
beginning end of the co pandemic
00:53:54
and we were separated for that right so
00:53:57
the only time we saw each other
00:54:01
was like a catch up in a car
00:54:04
park um and
00:54:08
Mom's she's been a lawyer and a judge
00:54:12
and what was so
00:54:16
Primo is being able to have her on my
00:54:18
medical team so she'll FaceTime in when
00:54:20
I'm with my oncologist and it's great
00:54:22
cuz when he's talking to me I'm the
00:54:24
patient so I'm like
00:54:27
my head's just swirling trying to
00:54:29
process oh [ __ ] what does this
00:54:32
mean what's that lung thing that whereas
00:54:36
she's a bit more
00:54:37
critical so then she can answer the
00:54:41
questions ask questions sorry and then
00:54:45
also it means when I come out of the
00:54:46
meeting I'm not trying to ring her and
00:54:49
relay what happened you you're you're a
00:54:52
creative as well and I suppose she's
00:54:53
more of a like an analytical no and
00:54:55
she'll be asking me like so what did he
00:54:57
say what was his tone there and I'm like
00:54:58
oh uh I think he cuz also words matter
00:55:02
so much in those yeah things because an
00:55:05
oncologist will never sugarcoat anything
00:55:08
for you they cuz they can't give false
00:55:11
hope right so you cling to what they say
00:55:15
and and having her part of my medical
00:55:18
team is awesome she's an amazing
00:55:20
grandmother she's an amazing
00:55:22
mother-in-law
00:55:24
and we're such a a tight
00:55:27
unit because I'm an only
00:55:31
child she had three siblings and they've
00:55:33
all
00:55:35
passed
00:55:36
um my dad had three brothers and they'
00:55:40
all passed and my dad's passed so we're
00:55:42
a small family you know I've got
00:55:44
beautiful cousins
00:55:46
luckily uh
00:55:49
and it's a small unit so having her
00:55:53
there and it it was big selling family
00:55:56
house cuz we never moved they bought the
00:55:59
house just before I was
00:56:00
born and I grew up in that
00:56:04
house and then Mom luckily sold it
00:56:08
downside to a small place in Wellington
00:56:11
and got a small apartment close to us in
00:56:13
West ockland and it's cool cuz now we
00:56:16
see more of her um she
00:56:19
can sort of be be around and and she was
00:56:24
massively helping me while I was came
00:56:26
over this the previous summer and has
00:56:31
brought us very close cuz
00:56:34
it's honest and she's like me she's
00:56:37
optimistic but also as it goes on you
00:56:41
got to be optimistic but then the
00:56:43
reality of of it all starts to at
00:56:47
home yeah has has she always been good
00:56:51
at showing vulnerability with you and
00:56:53
vice versa like you talk about your dad
00:56:54
in the documentary and um I suppose he
00:56:56
was a he was a loving dad but a product
00:56:58
of his generation so he you you knew he
00:57:01
loved you through actions rather than
00:57:03
words and your mom after he got
00:57:05
diagnosed with dementia she she made him
00:57:08
uh go and like say the things that he
00:57:10
had never never said was she like the
00:57:12
the loving one the one that expressed it
00:57:15
with words she did express it with
00:57:18
words
00:57:20
uh the frame of reference for dad was
00:57:23
he's a Welshman who
00:57:26
was bombed his house was bombed to
00:57:30
Smither when he was a kid you know they
00:57:33
were CU When the Germans hit Britain in
00:57:36
World War I the Welsh Town Swansea where
00:57:40
we're from was one of the first towns
00:57:41
bombed where it's where the planes came
00:57:44
in so that got leveled you know and so
00:57:47
they took kids and the kids went and
00:57:49
hidden the forest and [ __ ] while um the
00:57:52
adults were in bunkers and things so
00:57:57
you can't
00:57:58
underestimate the mental trauma that
00:58:01
that causes people even even as young
00:58:05
kids so yeah we would talk rugby and
00:58:10
we'd talk about
00:58:13
performing and love came through in that
00:58:16
and I always knew he'd loved me
00:58:19
dad you know he loved me to bit and but
00:58:24
Mom was probably the you know the more
00:58:28
Huggy she pardon me she was the more
00:58:30
Huggy lie with me when I'm sick and that
00:58:34
sort of carry on yeah it comes through
00:58:36
it's a special relationship well even
00:58:38
and yeah vice versa with you to to her
00:58:41
like there's a card um that she still it
00:58:43
on the wall unit that you wrote when you
00:58:45
were 21 which is really really um really
00:58:48
well written like it's really poetic so
00:58:51
I hadn't read that since I was 21 and I
00:58:53
read it in the docker and I'd never real
00:58:56
realized why it was up there it was
00:58:58
profound and then when I I was like oh
00:59:00
my God and I
00:59:03
was super
00:59:05
stoked
00:59:07
that I managed to articulate how much I
00:59:11
love my mom as a young kid because I
00:59:15
don't think a lot of people do and I
00:59:19
used to like to
00:59:21
write
00:59:23
poetry um when I was younger and sort of
00:59:26
um that was a creative outlet for me and
00:59:29
I've always liked to express my emotions
00:59:32
and cards and I've always been pretty
00:59:33
good at telling
00:59:36
people how I feel about them so I think
00:59:39
it's really important to tell if you
00:59:42
love someone tell them and tell them why
00:59:45
you know yeah absolutely like yeah
00:59:47
you're born with a like a a limitless
00:59:49
supply of compliments like it's it's not
00:59:51
going to run out no you can don't use
00:59:53
them sparingly no just just dish them
00:59:55
out and it is it is
00:59:58
amazing
01:00:00
how you can change someone's day I think
01:00:05
it was um it got emphasized to me when I
01:00:09
was it was years ago actually and it's
01:00:11
was like an in a CF or something and I
01:00:13
remember the person in front of me
01:00:15
talking to the server
01:00:17
going [ __ ] you look good in that top not
01:00:20
as like it wasn't like a pickup line or
01:00:22
anything it was just sh you look good at
01:00:23
that top and then when she was serving
01:00:26
me I was like she is beaming you know
01:00:29
like they just but
01:00:31
like if you think it just say it yeah
01:00:34
it's guessing someone up and it's like
01:00:36
you pump someone's tirres up and then
01:00:38
everyone and it's that thing of it's
01:00:40
that idea
01:00:41
of if you do something nice for someone
01:00:45
and you don't tell them or you don't try
01:00:46
and take credit you just do something
01:00:48
nice for someone they think the universe
01:00:51
is a better place than it is or they
01:00:54
that well as it is they think the
01:00:56
universe is a better place so then they
01:00:58
do something nice you know like just you
01:01:01
can just do nice things and and do tell
01:01:05
people you love them because you never
01:01:07
know when you're going to
01:01:10
um you never know when something's going
01:01:13
to happen you're not going to see
01:01:15
someone we had we had someone in our
01:01:16
wider Community recently who's younger
01:01:19
than me just pass
01:01:22
away like that right yeah no no
01:01:27
signs and that made me go right I've
01:01:30
been dealing with this for 4 years it's
01:01:32
constantly there what what's this sort
01:01:34
of what could this timeline be like this
01:01:37
person's just taken and you you hear
01:01:40
about that happening and it makes you
01:01:43
go what what are the things that people
01:01:47
wanted to say you know would you regret
01:01:50
not just taking five minutes
01:01:53
to text that person like should I love
01:01:56
you man you thanks for helping me out
01:01:58
with that or so so share the love share
01:02:00
the compliments and love is one of those
01:02:02
things the
01:02:05
more that gets out there the more there
01:02:07
feels there
01:02:09
is yeah and so how old are your kids now
01:02:12
11 and eight God they're cute kids
01:02:14
aren't they they are and I make sure I I
01:02:17
mean I'm the opposite words wise of my
01:02:20
dad I tell them I love them all the
01:02:23
time I I I'm very open
01:02:27
I'm very open with that and
01:02:31
um
01:02:32
I think it's important and and
01:02:35
it's you know parenting's not easy I we
01:02:39
have our ups and downs but I'm super
01:02:41
proud of them I'm super proud of
01:02:45
how they've sort of
01:02:47
processed this all without I
01:02:51
obviously don't flood them with info the
01:02:54
doco is not
01:02:56
appropriate for them to watch I'll sort
01:02:58
of clip out the bits that they're in and
01:03:00
show them but that's all they want to
01:03:01
see anyway yeah but the emotion and the
01:03:06
message is a bit too much for them at
01:03:09
present uh but I'm stoked it's there is
01:03:12
a
01:03:13
resource for later life when um who
01:03:17
knows I could still be rocking it and
01:03:19
they can look and
01:03:21
go Dad dealt with the heaviest [ __ ] in
01:03:25
his life
01:03:26
life with his head held high and he
01:03:29
dealt with
01:03:30
it in a good way
01:03:34
and I hope that they realize that that's
01:03:37
in them as well cuz I I tell them I'm
01:03:40
proud of them I know who they are I know
01:03:43
who they're going to be when they're
01:03:45
25 I know they're going to be good
01:03:47
people cuz I know who they are and
01:03:50
that's not going to that's not going to
01:03:52
change and I make sure they know that
01:03:57
they're humans and humans are made out
01:03:58
of Stardust man you know we got iron
01:04:02
running through our blood where do you
01:04:03
get iron from the only place you get
01:04:05
iron from is a collapsing star so we're
01:04:07
made out of Stardust and I make sure
01:04:09
they know that and know that the
01:04:11
universe is a better place with them in
01:04:13
it cuz I think if you instill
01:04:16
kids with not a self-importance but just
01:04:21
man you are special and when I say
01:04:23
you're special I don't mean you you need
01:04:25
to be a flash lawyer or an Entertainer
01:04:29
you could be special just by being a
01:04:31
hippie who sits on the Junes and watches
01:04:34
sunsets I don't care what you do as long
01:04:37
as you find what your internal happiness
01:04:40
actually
01:04:42
is that's so cool that's
01:04:47
wonderful oh man that's some heavy [ __ ]
01:04:49
you've been dealing with EH that never
01:04:52
ceases to amaze me I do I I was texting
01:04:56
with a mate who texts me and he goes
01:04:59
um I um I've just been overseas I'm
01:05:02
going to watch I'm going to catch up
01:05:04
with a doo when I get back and I just
01:05:07
text him back go
01:05:09
man when you've watched it let's not
01:05:12
talk about it let's get together and
01:05:13
just tell some dick jokes man you know
01:05:17
there's plenty of dick jokes in well but
01:05:19
it's just
01:05:21
like it's also I'm in this Jer position
01:05:24
of through the book through the doco I
01:05:29
preach that I'm living with cancer and
01:05:31
to live in the
01:05:33
moment and then I'm like I've actually
01:05:36
got to start doing some of that you know
01:05:39
cuz I've been documenting it and and so
01:05:43
now I I'm really proud of what I've got
01:05:46
out there and now I'm just going to live
01:05:50
and be the best version of myself I can
01:05:52
and where I can help people I I can and
01:05:55
to any anyone who listens to this who
01:05:57
reaches out to me I honestly try and get
01:06:00
back to every um person there's a
01:06:04
there's a there's an amazing human is
01:06:06
nam is Derek
01:06:08
cers um he's sort of done the podcast
01:06:10
round he's a um
01:06:14
he he's an amazing he's sort of someone
01:06:17
I look at as a mentor American guy then
01:06:20
find out he lives in Wellington which
01:06:21
was very weird just and um he answers
01:06:26
every email right I emailed him and he
01:06:29
answered me and I was like I try and
01:06:31
answer every email and I really
01:06:34
appreciate it and I am reading what what
01:06:37
people send me and it it might take me a
01:06:39
bit of time to to get back but thank you
01:06:43
to everyone I'd just like to say thank
01:06:44
you to everyone thank you to yourself
01:06:47
man and like so many people have have
01:06:51
showed me kindness in my life and I
01:06:54
think that's also so where I've I've got
01:06:57
the kindness from yeah it's reaping what
01:06:59
you say though isn't it yeah completely
01:07:01
yeah hey I mentioned on Instagram you're
01:07:03
coming I've got some questions should we
01:07:05
in with some Instagram questions let's
01:07:07
some Instagram questions
01:07:09
um you went to see a b cancer specialist
01:07:12
2 to three years before your diagnosis
01:07:14
how do you find peace with that this is
01:07:17
a huge one this is something maybe I've
01:07:19
found peace with more than my family
01:07:22
have um so it wasn't strictly about
01:07:25
cancer specialist so I had bleeding from
01:07:29
the bum right huge symptom of colon
01:07:33
cancer doctor thought it was potentially
01:07:36
a um anal Fisher it didn't fit the bell
01:07:40
curve of what needed for a colonoscopy
01:07:42
but I went to a bow specialist who did a
01:07:45
short um a short sort of colon mini
01:07:50
colonoscopy I don't know exactly what
01:07:52
it's called and they didn't find
01:07:54
anything but thought yeah it's probably
01:07:55
an anal Fisher that's 2017 right and
01:08:00
then 2020 I'm diagnosed with bow cancer
01:08:03
so it's
01:08:05
like would that be the difference
01:08:07
between
01:08:08
um had one surgery and a bit of chemo
01:08:11
and I'm clear now because Bale cancer
01:08:14
out of the cancers if you do find it
01:08:16
early you it's you got a pretty high
01:08:19
rate of being okay yeah I've had Dean
01:08:21
Barker and Alex pler on the podcast same
01:08:24
thing caught it relatively early
01:08:26
both Legends been in contact both of
01:08:28
them and they beautiful humans
01:08:32
and I so I had to park that right that's
01:08:36
something you could hold on to and get
01:08:38
bitter around but that's not going to
01:08:40
help me the way I reconciled
01:08:44
it none of it was done maliciously
01:08:48
right both of those doctors wanted to
01:08:51
help
01:08:52
me they've both gone over the nightes
01:08:55
and
01:08:57
you know that's just what happened so I
01:08:59
have to just park that up as that's what
01:09:02
happened you we we talked before about
01:09:04
our love of like SAS guys and there's
01:09:06
this guy um Joo willing he's got a book
01:09:08
oh no Joo willing his Instagram's just
01:09:10
photos of his bloody watch 4:30 why are
01:09:14
you in the
01:09:15
gym but he's he's got a book that I
01:09:17
really like called um extreme ownership
01:09:19
and I was trying to figure out on my run
01:09:22
today how that applies to you because
01:09:24
it's it's basically just saying own
01:09:25
everything like blame no one else for
01:09:27
anything you know extreme ownership and
01:09:30
but you kind of did that's a frustrating
01:09:32
thing no also what's the frustrating
01:09:34
thing is I did
01:09:36
everything they tell you to do you're
01:09:39
worried see your doctor I was worried I
01:09:41
saw my doctor my doctor didn't know the
01:09:44
answer sent me to a
01:09:46
specialist so you know it's like what
01:09:48
more could you have I literally owned it
01:09:50
and I literally did but but then you
01:09:53
want to put a positive spin on that I
01:09:55
didn't have health insurance in
01:10:00
2017 and then I did and health insurance
01:10:04
has made this path for me a lot easier
01:10:07
oh thank God
01:10:09
so yeah yeah so I mean pros and cons
01:10:13
yeah uh is there anything you wish you
01:10:15
did
01:10:18
differently not really I do wish the
01:10:22
biggest thoughts for me are the dark
01:10:26
thoughts around you know was it I was
01:10:29
drinking too much did I party too much
01:10:31
is that what gave me bow
01:10:33
cancer you know did I not figure out how
01:10:36
to manage my anger properly you know
01:10:39
like um I was a bottle up passive
01:10:41
aggressive bottle up well yeah I never
01:10:43
saw that I I suppose I I never really
01:10:45
saw you on sort of like interview
01:10:46
circuits and stuff yeah and I I never
01:10:49
like no I when I say anger it's not like
01:10:53
I were're getting fight yell at people
01:10:55
people argue with my misses and that it
01:10:57
was internal anger
01:11:01
um
01:11:03
and
01:11:04
then when people reach out to me like
01:11:07
the the person I mentioned before Who
01:11:09
marathon runner clean living and so
01:11:11
forth then I'm like actually
01:11:14
no I know people who still party way
01:11:17
more than me who are still getting on
01:11:19
the bloody gear and and dance parties
01:11:22
and they they're older than me and
01:11:25
they're fine so
01:11:27
no I had to park all that stuff cuz you
01:11:32
have to figure
01:11:33
out what's healthy for your brain and
01:11:36
what's not Emy raking stuff over the
01:11:39
coals of
01:11:41
regrets
01:11:43
misdiagnosis that ain't helping me
01:11:45
moving
01:11:45
[Music]
01:11:47
forward cancer has taken away so much
01:11:50
has it given you anything good yeah it's
01:11:52
given
01:11:54
me that honest happiness that uh I was
01:11:57
talking about it's given
01:12:01
me it's fast tracked my spirituality
01:12:05
it's fast tracked my
01:12:07
mindfulness it's been this
01:12:10
um massive kicking the nuts and a wakeup
01:12:13
call I'm a better husband I'm a better
01:12:15
father I'm a better
01:12:18
person but then it's that thing of um
01:12:21
there's a phrase I heard which I don't
01:12:23
necessarily
01:12:26
agree with the whole of it it's cancer
01:12:28
is a teacher and when it has taught you
01:12:31
what you need it will go I don't I don't
01:12:34
agree with that but it's an interesting
01:12:37
idea right cancer is a huge teacher
01:12:40
anyone who's had cancer will tell you
01:12:42
it's a teacher and I'm not saying it's a
01:12:44
good teacher or a bad teacher but that's
01:12:48
the thing is I I feel I've learned
01:12:50
enough
01:12:51
now how long how long is this degree
01:12:53
yeah exactly
01:12:55
um how different would your life look
01:12:57
now if you had not been through
01:12:59
this you probably stressing about losing
01:13:01
all the TV projects yeah that that'll be
01:13:05
that's interesting
01:13:07
cuz I don't know how my life the the
01:13:11
arony is like
01:13:13
um is I my cancer happened at the
01:13:17
beginning of Co so I was dealing
01:13:20
with um the beginning of chemo and all
01:13:23
these surgeries through Co so to me I
01:13:25
was like why was anyone talking about Co
01:13:29
what do you mean you're stressed out cuz
01:13:31
you're at home and you're drunking too
01:13:32
much wine you know that's not an issue
01:13:36
bro so so to me and then then I suddenly
01:13:39
went then I realized because people come
01:13:43
up to me a lot and go oh man I'm B da D
01:13:46
having these issues but it's nothing
01:13:47
compared to what you're going through
01:13:49
and then I go no it is man cuz before
01:13:52
cancer
01:13:55
an issue seem just as big as cancer does
01:13:58
so to other people their issues are just
01:14:00
as big to them as cancer is to me and it
01:14:02
made me realize that problems are just
01:14:04
problems issues are just issues everyone
01:14:07
has them and your brain gives them this
01:14:10
high this hierarchy that they're all so
01:14:12
important but it's not until you
01:14:16
actually unfortunately stumble across
01:14:19
something like cancer that now I went oh
01:14:22
wow these problems are nothing you know
01:14:26
the the stuff I was worrying about is
01:14:28
nothing and that it
01:14:31
all changes and it all moves and time
01:14:35
passes so
01:14:38
I've I feel
01:14:41
I'm I'm a a better person I've I feel in
01:14:46
in a sort of Pokemon sense I've
01:14:49
evolved I've evolved into my into my
01:14:53
best iteration
01:14:56
yeah I love that are there any
01:14:57
misconceptions about living with
01:14:58
incurable cancer that you'd like to
01:15:01
address yeah there is all I knew about
01:15:05
cancer was from
01:15:07
TV and that
01:15:10
people St you know clutching onto the IV
01:15:14
stumbling through the hospital and sort
01:15:17
of gaunt GA and frail and and
01:15:21
unfortunately the Bold thing is with the
01:15:23
chem I'm on thankfully I haven't lost my
01:15:27
my hair but the Bold thing is a regular
01:15:29
occurrence just cuz a lot of the chemos
01:15:32
kill your fast growing hair celles but
01:15:36
then when I was in when I'm in there I
01:15:38
look around and go oh some people are
01:15:40
smiling they they're like I'm like I
01:15:42
wouldn't have guessed I wouldn't have
01:15:44
guessed 90 sure there are a lot of
01:15:46
people who are in that
01:15:49
frail because they're just getting
01:15:51
hammered by this appalling disease
01:15:55
but there's a lot of people out there
01:15:57
who might
01:15:59
have incurable cancer that you don't
01:16:01
know because they're like
01:16:04
me where they're going through tough
01:16:08
[ __ ] but they're lucky enough to sort of
01:16:11
look normal so you don't know what
01:16:14
people are going through
01:16:17
and incurable cancer
01:16:21
is always there for people who have it
01:16:24
but you don't have to always talk about
01:16:26
cancer with people who have it just hit
01:16:31
them up man if if you if you know
01:16:34
someone and
01:16:35
go do you want to talk about it or
01:16:37
should we just forget about it today
01:16:40
yeah if you go out for a game of golf
01:16:41
you mentioned um Bryce Casey before one
01:16:43
of your golfing Partners um yeah it's a
01:16:46
long time on the golf course do you do
01:16:48
do do your friends actively avoid
01:16:51
talking about it in those environments
01:16:53
um no the good thing is I've sort of got
01:16:56
a WhatsApp thread with a crew of
01:16:59
people that that's where
01:17:02
I it's called Little D with a big c
01:17:05
that's where I'll check out how I'm
01:17:08
feeling [ __ ] today I need my tires
01:17:10
pumped up I'm going so that's where I
01:17:12
sort of have a lot of the cancer related
01:17:14
chat and then when we're out
01:17:18
there no often I'm just with mates or
01:17:22
Comics who just want to talk some
01:17:25
rubbish and that that's what I love yeah
01:17:29
um what does hope mean to you now and
01:17:31
has the definition
01:17:33
changed
01:17:35
hope hope Falls in there
01:17:39
with when you've got a breath there is
01:17:42
still hope that's how I I feel and I say
01:17:45
to myself it's an old saying who I
01:17:48
forget the the name of the woman who
01:17:50
first said it that is I sort of say to
01:17:52
myself every day and every way I'm
01:17:54
getting better and that's my little hope
01:17:58
Mantra
01:18:00
and yeah I got hope and hope is
01:18:04
everything I've got hope for the world
01:18:07
you know I've got Hope For Humanity I've
01:18:09
got hope for the climate nothing's
01:18:12
hopeless so hope is huge
01:18:17
and hope is
01:18:19
important and you don't rely on Hope but
01:18:23
why not there's no harm in it
01:18:25
yeah I saw a therapist a few years ago
01:18:27
and I had this tendency to almost like
01:18:31
cont um catastrophize things or look for
01:18:33
the worst case scenario and she was like
01:18:35
it's only fair if you look for the worst
01:18:37
case scenario that you have to also like
01:18:39
entertain the best case scenario as well
01:18:41
mate that's exactly what I do
01:18:45
I
01:18:47
cuz humans I think go negative right but
01:18:50
that's cuz you know [ __ ] someone's going
01:18:52
to what's the worst they could well like
01:18:54
a lion attack us you know so we got to
01:18:56
set up we're setting up camp right
01:18:58
what's going to what's going to [ __ ] us
01:19:00
up but I'm the same I'm like hey I've
01:19:04
been thinking about all the worst case
01:19:06
[ __ ] what if this all works out you know
01:19:10
and sometimes it's weird you know when
01:19:12
you actually flip that script a bit and
01:19:14
do think about the best case now you do
01:19:17
swell a bit in terms of like positivity
01:19:20
and you do feel a bit better absolutely
01:19:25
and you start to think it's possible
01:19:27
it's possible that this could happen
01:19:29
yeah the um the the documentary is this
01:19:32
the body of work that you're most proud
01:19:33
of yes 100% 100% but I as I mentioned at
01:19:38
the beginning I let it all hang
01:19:40
out the the people I trusted with my
01:19:43
story told it exactly how i' want it to
01:19:46
be told
01:19:48
and yeah I couldn't ask I couldn't ask
01:19:50
for anything more it's definitely my
01:19:52
most proud moment uh in terms of things
01:19:56
I've I've put on the screen or stage
01:19:59
it's incredible I um yeah I mean it's
01:20:02
not an easy I the thing I love about
01:20:03
where we are with um TV and media now is
01:20:06
it lingers around yeah um so people can
01:20:08
go on 3 plus and watch it whenever they
01:20:10
whenever they want so I feel like it's
01:20:11
going to be I don't know what TV ratings
01:20:13
are these days but I feel like this is
01:20:14
going to be one of these um things that
01:20:16
gets consumed you know for years to come
01:20:18
my um end game for this is I want to we
01:20:25
we're looking at cutting it down to sort
01:20:27
of a festival documentary size putting
01:20:31
the three three of them into more one
01:20:33
sort of hour and a half thing because I
01:20:36
I think I don't think you need a frame
01:20:39
of reference for me as a person to get
01:20:41
something out of this so I'd like to to
01:20:44
sort of get it out to a wider audience
01:20:47
as well and leave the bit in there where
01:20:49
you talk about [ __ ] the plug hole
01:20:53
maybe there little a little teaser for
01:20:56
anyone who hasn't seen it watch that oh
01:20:59
God honestly ws and all The Good the Bad
01:21:02
and the Ugly hey um yeah uh can you
01:21:04
remember what your last words were in
01:21:06
the documentary the very final words
01:21:08
it's a real poyant quote I think so
01:21:12
this in a way I think if it's what you
01:21:15
you you're referencing this is the most
01:21:17
poignant thing I've ever said and it
01:21:19
just popped into my head and it is um
01:21:23
when the fear of death is gone all it
01:21:26
remains is the joy of living yeah and I
01:21:30
think that that is so true and people
01:21:34
see at the end of this I did a Tadashi
01:21:37
ceremony which is a a Japanese departure
01:21:40
or death
01:21:41
ceremony and that took away my fear of
01:21:44
death
01:21:46
and I think everyone needs to face death
01:21:50
in the Western World we
01:21:52
don't um we're scared of it we hide from
01:21:56
it it's going to happen to all of us so
01:22:00
it also is a great way of crystallizing
01:22:02
how awesome today is and that thing of
01:22:07
realizing that we're all going to die
01:22:09
with a to-do list so don't freak out too
01:22:12
much about all the minutti [ __ ] you've
01:22:14
got to do just enjoy the day and I think
01:22:18
when the fear of death has gone all it
01:22:20
remains is the joy of living and if
01:22:23
people were to take away anything from
01:22:25
the doco I'd want you to take away
01:22:28
that what a place to end it thanks very
01:22:32
much D mate thanks so much I'm so proud
01:22:34
of you oh mate I'm so proud of you like
01:22:37
I I mate I had tears streaming down my
01:22:39
face watching it had real weird moments
01:22:40
too like just um seeing the dynamic of
01:22:43
the relationship with your mom for
01:22:44
example um yeah the Japanese death
01:22:48
ceremony moments my wife said said this
01:22:52
to me at the end of the death ceremony I
01:22:55
had a hug with the
01:22:57
Monk and my wife goes [ __ ] that looked
01:22:59
like a really good hug and it was an
01:23:02
amazing hug for anyone watching it look
01:23:05
at the hug I have with this monk it's a
01:23:07
cracker of a hug yeah after he was kind
01:23:10
of mean to you as well um you have to
01:23:12
write down the names of three people
01:23:14
dear to you so you've got your two kids
01:23:15
and your wife and you're like oh can I
01:23:17
throw on my mom as well like a fourth
01:23:18
and he's like no no cuz that was the
01:23:20
hardest I was saying I've got a small
01:23:21
unit that's my unit right so I was like
01:23:25
yeah sorry
01:23:27
M hey you're an absolute Legend mate and
01:23:29
um whatever the future may bring for for
01:23:32
you I I just wish you all the best I
01:23:35
love you mate hope to be on here in
01:23:37
years to come going this is how you get
01:23:39
rid of cancer