00:00:00
okay Runners only with dime Runners only
00:00:02
with dom Harvey and Sam Harvey sorry you
00:00:05
were just talking over the intro what's
00:00:07
up what we saying oh sorry Brad
00:00:09
hey no you're the you're the guest what
00:00:12
were you gamering on about I had my
00:00:13
earplugs and I couldn't even hear you oh
00:00:14
no no stress I was just yeah
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same Harvey
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uh no relation
00:00:20
the Harvey side of my family is very
00:00:23
small so a couple of people even
00:00:24
messaged me saying are you guys related
00:00:26
not a chance I don't think
00:00:28
um but this man is an absolute Savage
00:00:30
recently tied the world record for a
00:00:33
more or less continuous
00:00:35
677 kilometer run in Australia
00:00:39
um
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mate it's great to have you here I've
00:00:42
heard you do so many interviews and uh
00:00:43
the the host usually starts the same way
00:00:45
by calling you like me until calling you
00:00:48
a Madman calling you Bonkers something
00:00:51
like that which how um how do you feel
00:00:54
about that it feels like it's a it's a
00:00:55
bit of a cop-out bit of an easy intro I
00:00:57
can think of many other words for you I
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mean yeah I guess I'm a little bit
00:01:00
twisted but uh
00:01:03
yeah I I don't know I don't think I'm
00:01:05
really mad I'm just yeah I'm I'm digging
00:01:07
deep and I'm going after something and I
00:01:09
guess yeah maybe maybe that's perceived
00:01:11
as a level of Madness and on the
00:01:13
comparison of
00:01:15
someone else's normal spectrum of
00:01:17
existence versus
00:01:19
what what I'm up to so yeah I'm just I'm
00:01:21
just getting after something and yeah
00:01:23
that might seem a bit strange to to a
00:01:25
few people that haven't done anything at
00:01:27
this scale which is most of us
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99.999 but words I would go with would
00:01:33
probably be things like
00:01:34
um oh I don't know like uh
00:01:37
um disciplined courageous calculating
00:01:40
meticulous
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I mean you the the [ __ ] you do you look
00:01:44
like the sort of guy that would wing it
00:01:46
but you're not a guy that's winging it
00:01:47
there's a lot of calculation that goes
00:01:50
into what you do there has to be yeah I
00:01:52
mean like there's
00:01:53
there's
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definitely been like a lot of winging it
00:01:56
in the past and the winging it has got
00:01:58
me to where I am and yeah I guess I am
00:02:00
able to both operate with with planning
00:02:04
but then when [ __ ] goes awry uh
00:02:07
make it up on the spot and get things
00:02:10
done uh like in my early years of racing
00:02:13
I kind of had this like little internal
00:02:15
personal brand and I called it skin of
00:02:17
your teeth racing it was like
00:02:18
it's the way sort of winging it oh
00:02:20
totally winging it like like when I was
00:02:22
racing in Ireland I'd like I'd finish
00:02:24
driving the tractor and then I'd be like
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oh I've got like an hour and a half to
00:02:28
get into Dublin and like and then like
00:02:30
get to this race and I'd like
00:02:33
I'd like Sprint or bike like into the
00:02:36
nearest Village and then like maybe
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catch a bus and then that bus would be
00:02:40
running behind and then I would like get
00:02:41
off early and I'd like run across a free
00:02:43
like a full-on Motorway
00:02:46
dodgy sketchy [ __ ] that's highly illegal
00:02:49
uh climb up this Cliff phase jump jump
00:02:52
this like or climb over this nine foot
00:02:54
fence into this car park and then that
00:02:55
allowed me onto a train or like get to
00:02:57
get to a taxi and then like like
00:02:59
literally there was a couple races I'd
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like get there and people were like on
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on the start line and I'd like
00:03:06
I'm not even sure they'd be like yeah
00:03:08
you can pay afterwards they'd give me a
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number I'd flick that number on they'd
00:03:11
be like lining up and I'd be like
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haven't finally having to take a leak on
00:03:15
the start line and they're like three
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two and they know that they know that
00:03:20
I'm here everybody's laughing and then
00:03:21
we go and I get off and and get on the
00:03:24
start line and we run and I like managed
00:03:26
to get like first or second and or at
00:03:28
least a podium in that race and I'm like
00:03:29
yeah just scrape by and they don't know
00:03:32
that like the two hour ordeal just like
00:03:34
getting to that start line see the
00:03:36
warm-up the warm-up unlike anyone else's
00:03:38
so how long ago was this I think this
00:03:39
sets the since the sets the tone nicely
00:03:42
for the beginning of the podcast yeah
00:03:43
definitely ah so I was in Ireland and
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2017 17. okay and so just doing like uh
00:03:52
yeah a bit of a bit of farm work and
00:03:54
building and uh what else was I doing uh
00:03:59
and then obviously like doing a few
00:04:00
running races and
00:04:02
uh a bit of boxing and
00:04:05
just kind of yeah living my life yeah oh
00:04:09
that's awesome
00:04:10
um we should probably start by
00:04:12
explaining the concept of lapse racing
00:04:15
um because
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I mean there's a lot of people that'll
00:04:17
be listening listening to this that are
00:04:19
that are that are fans of yours that
00:04:21
know what you've done and are familiar
00:04:22
with the concept but I think most normal
00:04:24
new zealanders would have no clue what
00:04:26
it means so for sure how would you
00:04:27
explain it yeah so um I guess the sport
00:04:30
that I've kind of
00:04:32
really come into my own in the last
00:04:35
couple of years I've obviously been
00:04:36
running ultra marathon which is really
00:04:38
really long
00:04:40
format racing but uh so like
00:04:43
hundreds of kilometers and then the
00:04:46
backyard Ultra format which I've kind of
00:04:49
really been giving some steam recently
00:04:51
it's basically a last person standing
00:04:54
format where you run a 6.7 kilometer
00:04:56
Loop
00:04:57
and that's 6.7 kilometer Loop might be
00:05:00
set over can be set up over any terrain
00:05:02
it might be flat it might be hilly it
00:05:04
might be grassy it might be rugged
00:05:06
whatever but basically everybody lines
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up on the start line at the start of
00:05:12
each hour and you have 60 Minutes to
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complete that 6.7 kilometer Loop or
00:05:18
4.1667 miles and
00:05:22
yeah if you if you finish it fast then
00:05:25
you then you get a bit of a rest maybe
00:05:26
like if you finish it in 40 minutes then
00:05:28
you get a 20 minute rest and you can eat
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and drink and
00:05:31
uh do do what you need to do or if you
00:05:34
do it slow and you're coming in 59
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minutes then basically you've you've got
00:05:38
to go out on straight straight away you
00:05:40
get no rest time and so it's a bit of a
00:05:42
balancing act but basically the way it
00:05:44
works is
00:05:45
you lap that 6.7 kilometer Loop hour
00:05:49
after hour
00:05:51
if you take longer than the hour then
00:05:53
you get kicked out if you can't start a
00:05:57
lope then then you get kicked out and it
00:05:59
continues until there's at least
00:06:01
at least two people left in the race and
00:06:04
as soon as that second to last person
00:06:06
drops off then
00:06:08
then that's the last person standing and
00:06:10
they have to do one one more Loop to
00:06:14
basically secure it
00:06:16
and
00:06:18
they can't continue looping after that
00:06:20
so basically it's the it's the winner
00:06:22
there's only one finisher in these races
00:06:24
and then there's the assist and the
00:06:26
assist helps the winner to get however
00:06:28
far they may get before before they give
00:06:31
up yeah and this is where you
00:06:34
um tied the world record recently like a
00:06:36
few matter of a few weeks in Australia
00:06:37
and we're going to dive deep into that
00:06:38
race because it's a the race itself is
00:06:40
probably worthy of being a movie with
00:06:42
the final three competitors yeah there's
00:06:44
like there's so many layers to it
00:06:46
um first of all I want to say let the
00:06:49
the thing about the slaps racing like to
00:06:51
me is that it feels
00:06:53
from an outsider's perspective it looks
00:06:55
tantalizingly easy do you know what I
00:06:57
mean anyone can anyone that's done a bit
00:06:59
of running can run 6.7 case anyone who
00:07:01
hasn't done a bit of running can run 6.7
00:07:03
K's in an hour and then you think I can
00:07:05
have it I could probably just about
00:07:06
briskly walk it I could have a break do
00:07:08
it again but then like from my
00:07:10
perspective as someone that does like a
00:07:12
you know 10K here 20K here you get to 10
00:07:14
hours you you bought mentally you're
00:07:17
bored you've also tired because you've
00:07:19
done 67 in case at that point and you
00:07:21
give up but you just [ __ ] don't yeah
00:07:24
well I think you I think you touched on
00:07:25
it um briefly before
00:07:27
saying like it is easy and like this
00:07:30
format of racing it's easy until it's
00:07:33
not
00:07:34
and that's the thing it's the intellect
00:07:37
not I suppose that varies from person to
00:07:38
person
00:07:40
and I mean at the end of the day the the
00:07:43
farthest distance you've run is the
00:07:45
farthest distance you've run like the
00:07:46
longest you've gone might be 20K so to
00:07:50
to up that by a couple of K's then
00:07:52
that's that's a win yeah uh
00:07:55
is it your full capacity maybe not
00:07:57
because in your head like that's that's
00:08:00
your upper limit I'm just kind of going
00:08:04
to find wherever the limit actually is
00:08:07
physically uh
00:08:10
and break down all of those mental
00:08:12
barriers because yeah I've definitely
00:08:13
like come to a point and I'm like oh
00:08:16
300 miles
00:08:18
like there was at at the Australian race
00:08:22
a couple weeks ago like I hit the 300
00:08:23
mile Mark and that was like emotional I
00:08:25
didn't expect 200 miles that's like
00:08:27
500ks
00:08:30
and then you end up running a total of
00:08:32
677. yeah so when you get to 300 miles
00:08:36
um we can work in whatever format you
00:08:37
want here
00:08:38
um when you've got 300 miles like you
00:08:40
you I mean for a lot of people you could
00:08:43
be like okay that's an epic Milestone
00:08:44
I'm gonna I'm gonna wind down now yeah
00:08:46
I'm not going to win but it's amazing
00:08:48
for me but you just kept on [ __ ]
00:08:50
going yeah so I don't look at it in
00:08:51
milestones and a lot of people do like a
00:08:53
lot of people
00:08:54
a lot of people say oh I want to get to
00:08:56
the 24-hour Mark which is 100 miles or
00:08:58
160 kilometers or I want to get uh the
00:09:01
the 40 hour mark or the 50 hour mark
00:09:03
honestly I just kind of dissociate all
00:09:06
together I don't count hours I don't
00:09:07
count kilometers I I just like
00:09:11
I'm just there to run I run and I do a
00:09:15
loop and I just complete a loop and I
00:09:16
just focus on the task at hand and don't
00:09:18
kind of let it
00:09:20
let the grand scheme of of things affect
00:09:23
me too much and
00:09:26
I think that's what misses a lot of
00:09:28
people up is they're looking to
00:09:31
like their sitting targets and then they
00:09:33
hit them and they're like oh
00:09:34
what do I do now I've now got to set a
00:09:37
new Target your Target's just to be the
00:09:39
last man standing yeah my Target's just
00:09:40
a win yeah yeah okay
00:09:43
um how much of how much of this is
00:09:44
physical and how much is mental
00:09:46
obviously physical fitness is huge like
00:09:47
not anyone can go out and you know clock
00:09:50
up a 677 K's in four days
00:09:52
for sure
00:09:54
um I mean obviously very physical
00:09:56
like extremely physically demanding I
00:09:59
guess
00:10:02
I've removed the the physical element of
00:10:06
it to a degree because I've I've trained
00:10:08
so hard for it and I know my body and I
00:10:10
know my capabilities basically I can go
00:10:13
into one of these things knowing that
00:10:14
like my body's going to perform
00:10:16
like I'm at the upper tier of
00:10:19
of people who have prepared their body
00:10:22
for any any kind of running event
00:10:25
I'm on I might not be the fastest but
00:10:27
I've definitely put in uh the top tier
00:10:30
level of miles and so I know my legs and
00:10:33
my body they're all going to do the job
00:10:35
and I can just focus on the task at hand
00:10:37
uh the big thing being you've just gotta
00:10:40
you've got to beat
00:10:42
yourself or beat
00:10:44
beat your mental limit so yeah it does
00:10:46
it does come down to that to that mental
00:10:48
strength in the end if you have to put a
00:10:50
percentage on each what would it be it
00:10:51
can't be 50 58 it's going to be I would
00:10:54
have thought having never done one
00:10:55
myself just sitting here in this
00:10:56
beautiful plush armchair 80 20 80 mental
00:10:59
yeah yeah and and I mean a lot of people
00:11:03
say it's in the reverse of like running
00:11:05
it's 80 physicality like you you need to
00:11:09
have you need to have that body there
00:11:12
and then 20 of it's mental but yeah I
00:11:15
would say the the opposite uh I mean
00:11:17
once you once you've prepared the body
00:11:19
then it's only 20 like making sure
00:11:22
everything's right and then 80 of it is
00:11:24
just getting getting your head yeah
00:11:26
getting your head straight and how how
00:11:28
do you prepare the body like what is a
00:11:31
what does a heavy training week look
00:11:32
like for you about 160 to 180 K of
00:11:35
running a week and then oh yeah that's
00:11:37
not excessive yeah and then two or three
00:11:41
strength sessions which might be like I
00:11:44
don't know half an hour in the gym doing
00:11:45
like heavy weights right right so so
00:11:48
160s
00:11:50
160 K's a week how much of that is like
00:11:52
what sort of training is that like is it
00:11:54
speed work long slow runs no so it'll be
00:11:57
polarized training so a bid turn yeah
00:11:59
most most most of that volume will be
00:12:02
slow easy Zone one zone two running and
00:12:06
then
00:12:08
a very small amount of it maybe like two
00:12:11
yeah one or two sessions a week would be
00:12:13
that faster training uh so doing hill
00:12:17
Sprints or or the like or or a tempo run
00:12:20
and do you do any training for the sleep
00:12:22
deprivation well I I would have thought
00:12:24
you were training May and tail like
00:12:26
having a Friday and Saturday where you
00:12:28
you do laps for 24 hours or something
00:12:30
like that yeah I mean
00:12:33
I think life prepares you for these
00:12:35
races like like
00:12:37
not me I love my sleep I can sleep
00:12:40
deprivation is one of the worst things
00:12:41
man yeah I'm horrible I mean less so
00:12:44
from the sleep deprivation the sleep
00:12:45
deprivation you probably get more used
00:12:47
to having done a few of these races and
00:12:49
I've done
00:12:51
oh it's at least half a dozen of these
00:12:52
things now so like I have I have run
00:12:55
through the night on him like every
00:12:56
single one of these races I've done 200
00:12:58
plus kilometers
00:13:00
so I've gone through the night and even
00:13:03
into the second night on at least most
00:13:06
of them and so got it got it got a bit
00:13:09
used to it and honestly the the world
00:13:11
record
00:13:13
having gone through four nights that was
00:13:15
just adapting on the go that and that's
00:13:17
probably something that I have a
00:13:18
strength in there's
00:13:19
you're presented with a problem and you
00:13:22
find a way of fixing it at the moment
00:13:25
but that's um yeah you make it sound
00:13:28
very simple and very easy but when sleep
00:13:31
deprivation kicks in
00:13:32
your rational mind often sort of shuts
00:13:35
down totally yeah yeah
00:13:38
um that's when you start to make your
00:13:40
reasoning with yourself or negotiating
00:13:41
with yourself or yeah well that's a
00:13:43
decision state after a good sleep you're
00:13:44
going to regret yeah well totally I mean
00:13:47
at the end of the day I can be very
00:13:49
mechanical and just like kind of get get
00:13:51
the job done which is what I was doing
00:13:54
uh as you say like reasoning with
00:13:57
yourself maybe not reasoning with myself
00:13:58
but
00:13:59
come the fifth day like the final day
00:14:02
where it uh I stopped
00:14:05
that was where people out like I was
00:14:08
taking reasoning from people that
00:14:10
weren't me who let your support crew and
00:14:12
yeah and basically saying like you're
00:14:15
you're sick like you've got pneumonia
00:14:18
like the the doctor wants to pull you
00:14:20
from the race the race director wants to
00:14:21
pull you from the race like you've got
00:14:23
to stop and I was like no I'm here to
00:14:25
break the world record and they're like
00:14:26
well okay we're gonna let you break the
00:14:27
world record or help to set the world
00:14:29
record but once you've completed lap 101
00:14:32
the 101st hour the 677 kilometer
00:14:36
you are to then pull out
00:14:39
and I was like uh okay like I
00:14:43
I reasoned with their voice of
00:14:47
logic and I guess yeah that's what I've
00:14:50
been kicking myself about I can tell by
00:14:52
your demeanor you're dark about it yeah
00:14:54
yeah well I mean like at the end of the
00:14:55
day I was still I was still I was I was
00:14:58
beat up but like anyone would be beat up
00:15:00
after they'd run nearly 700 kilometers
00:15:01
100
00:15:03
um yeah my lungs were a bit stuffed but
00:15:04
at the end of the day like
00:15:06
my heart my heart rate variation wasn't
00:15:08
going crazy like I wasn't
00:15:11
continuously collapsing what was showing
00:15:14
signs that I was gonna die or anything
00:15:16
continuously collapsing well like I did
00:15:18
collapse at one time
00:15:24
that's what set off the warning bells
00:15:26
for everyone it was like around the 95th
00:15:28
or 96th hour
00:15:29
and and
00:15:33
okay so see for me if my who's in your
00:15:38
support crew by the way is it your wife
00:15:39
no who have you uh no so for that one
00:15:42
was uh mum dad
00:15:45
uh a guy called Adam Keane who's a coach
00:15:48
and he was on the team with me he'd run
00:15:50
and then like once he'd stopped he'd uh
00:15:52
he'd come in and crew for me Sean
00:15:54
Collins he's he's another guy who was
00:15:56
racing over there from the Kiwi team who
00:15:58
once he stopped he he came in and and
00:16:01
crewed for me and um yeah and then like
00:16:03
various others so I had a bit of an
00:16:05
expanded or extended support was he was
00:16:08
it unanimous they were all like saying
00:16:10
listen Sam you gotta You Gotta Throw the
00:16:12
towel in uh I think it was the the like
00:16:14
the race director and his kind of circle
00:16:17
had like kind of made that decision then
00:16:18
I had like my team were like fighting on
00:16:21
my behalf okay so there was a
00:16:22
negotiating with the race director yeah
00:16:24
and then yeah I think the negotiation
00:16:26
was like allow him to to get to the
00:16:29
world record and then and but monitor
00:16:31
him
00:16:32
to make sure like shit's not gonna go
00:16:35
really awry and then um
00:16:37
and then yeah basically
00:16:40
cut them cut them from the race once
00:16:41
once he's achieved what he what he came
00:16:42
here to do so do you feel a little bit
00:16:45
um I don't know exploited as the word
00:16:47
but um like it's almost like they used
00:16:49
you as bait for the adventure winner
00:16:52
um
00:16:54
I
00:16:57
I wouldn't say that I mean both of us
00:16:59
went there with the intention of of
00:17:00
sitting the record
00:17:03
and
00:17:05
I was going to feel like a failure if
00:17:07
neither of us got there like if I had
00:17:09
like Tapped Out on like 90 hours or 95
00:17:12
hours like come that close but yeah so
00:17:15
short then that would have been a
00:17:17
failure at least I got
00:17:20
to match the world record and then allow
00:17:22
someone else yeah because because then I
00:17:25
I carried him there like I could have
00:17:27
yeah that's what I'm that's what I mean
00:17:29
so the race director's saying okay Sam
00:17:30
you're very very sick you've got
00:17:32
pneumonia but we will let you run
00:17:34
another few laps and that's it yeah
00:17:37
yeah half
00:17:41
yeah I mean I don't know I I don't feel
00:17:43
like I like I need to poke the beer any
00:17:44
more than what it's been poked I'm just
00:17:46
yeah I don't want to remind you yeah
00:17:47
I've gotta I've got to be like kind on
00:17:49
myself yeah there was a hell of a lot of
00:17:51
uh
00:17:53
success within that race both
00:17:56
spiritually mentally physically between
00:17:59
myself and other Runners between me and
00:18:01
my crew like like that week was possibly
00:18:05
the most
00:18:08
spiritual and enlightening and wholesome
00:18:11
and rewarding week that I've had in my
00:18:13
entire life so like yeah gotta kinda be
00:18:17
nice to myself because yeah if you if
00:18:20
you compare it with what could have been
00:18:21
then you take away from all the goodness
00:18:23
that came out of it and like what came
00:18:26
out of that race was massive oh 100 and
00:18:29
you know you tied the world record and
00:18:31
uh you you did it um not feeling 100
00:18:33
which is remarkable and it's exciting to
00:18:36
think what you can potentially achieve
00:18:38
in the future oh absolutely I mean like
00:18:40
uh old mate who took the took the win he
00:18:45
has had uh
00:18:48
harder competition he's been exposed to
00:18:50
harder competition in Australia just
00:18:52
because the Australians they they get a
00:18:53
bit further in these races generally so
00:18:54
he's been pushed into these like
00:18:57
uh the I'm not sure if he's been pushed
00:19:00
into the fourth day but he's definitely
00:19:01
been pushed into like the third day
00:19:02
previously and so
00:19:05
he's experienced the deep end a lot more
00:19:08
and had the ability to practice and and
00:19:11
and improve his processes prior to this
00:19:13
event I'd only ever done 46 hours
00:19:15
because
00:19:17
because you're the last man standing
00:19:19
because because I was when the race
00:19:20
finishes yeah well because I've
00:19:22
essentially won everything in New
00:19:23
Zealand and we haven't quite gone as far
00:19:26
and so this was essentially my first
00:19:30
opportunity to race with some really
00:19:33
Heavy Hitters and find out where my
00:19:35
limits are and so
00:19:37
yeah I jumped from 46 hours all the way
00:19:40
up to 101 hours and so I was in I was an
00:19:44
unknown territory for a long time for
00:19:46
the second half of the of the event yeah
00:19:48
more than the second half what so what
00:19:50
were you thinking so you've done 46
00:19:51
hours and you obviously um still knew
00:19:54
you had way more beyond that
00:19:56
um but yeah what were you thinking and
00:19:58
yeah like going into it in your in your
00:20:00
heart 60 hours 70 hours no I was super
00:20:02
confident that I was going to break the
00:20:04
world record if there was anyone there
00:20:06
that was willing to to go that distance
00:20:08
with me so you thought you could double
00:20:10
you you definitely thought you could
00:20:12
double 46 hours without question
00:20:17
crazy it's a crazy thought and it just
00:20:19
makes me want to like tap and even do a
00:20:21
do a biopsy into your brain and get a
00:20:23
part of it out how you operate because
00:20:25
there'd be like someone I don't know if
00:20:27
this is a this is a great comparison but
00:20:28
it's like someone running their first
00:20:30
marathon doing five hours and then
00:20:32
thinking okay well next time I'll do two
00:20:34
and a half
00:20:36
that's [ __ ] crazy like to do 46 and
00:20:38
then go into the next event with the
00:20:40
confidence that you can double that it's
00:20:41
it's
00:20:42
all the journalists say when they open
00:20:44
the interviews yeah it's mad yeah I just
00:20:48
think I I know my body I know my brain
00:20:50
and I know all the processes that I've
00:20:52
built over the last couple years and I'm
00:20:54
very just I'm very confident that you
00:20:56
basically take take the system
00:20:58
and then you just replicate it again and
00:21:00
again and again hour after hour lap
00:21:02
after lap day after day nothing really
00:21:04
changes
00:21:06
so so you just you just continue on with
00:21:09
your systems you might need to
00:21:11
fiddle things around a little bit maybe
00:21:13
on the third or fourth day because there
00:21:16
are new factors in play like sleep
00:21:18
deprivation so you end up wanting to
00:21:20
sleep a bit more in the nights or even
00:21:21
during the day so
00:21:23
so you make those changes but yeah at
00:21:25
the end of the day honestly anyone can
00:21:28
run a 6.7 kilometer Loop in an hour and
00:21:31
even on my hundred and
00:21:33
hundredth hundred and first hour like I
00:21:35
was still still lapping and
00:21:38
and in like 50 minutes or maybe even
00:21:39
like a a 49 minute or something where
00:21:42
when I first started this racing a
00:21:43
couple years ago like
00:21:45
admittedly it was on a very hilly
00:21:47
hard course but like 52 minutes was my
00:21:51
consistent Loop time so so you give an a
00:21:54
minute break at the back yeah so like
00:21:55
and and I know that that is a is a big
00:21:58
enough window to do absolutely
00:21:59
everything and have a bit of a rest so
00:22:01
if I'm coming in anything faster than
00:22:03
that then like I'm in good Nick and I
00:22:06
can
00:22:07
I can go perpetually okay absolutely
00:22:10
everything is and isn't what taking some
00:22:11
nutrition hydration yeah that's the one
00:22:14
change your socks maybe or so yeah I
00:22:17
mean like hydration yes nutrition yes
00:22:19
maybe a bit of a sleep uh change out any
00:22:23
maybe wet sweaty gears for for dry
00:22:27
clothes and
00:22:30
lists so on the sock slash shoe front I
00:22:33
mean yeah there are other people that
00:22:35
are religious about that but honestly I
00:22:38
it was the Sunday night
00:22:41
so the sick going into the second night
00:22:44
and I did it I think I did a shoe change
00:22:47
and I had seven pairs of shoes with me
00:22:49
and by that point I only fit into one of
00:22:51
them because my feet are blown up so big
00:22:53
and I was like oh well
00:22:57
that means I can't do any more shoe
00:22:59
changes and I was like oh well that's
00:23:00
that's fine like these shoes will do and
00:23:03
if I'm not going to take my shoes off
00:23:04
then oh well I'll just stick with my
00:23:06
socks if I stuck with my socks then I'm
00:23:09
not going to do any like blister popping
00:23:10
or foot management I was like sweet I
00:23:12
was like what I've got on my feet is
00:23:13
what I've got on my feet so from Sunday
00:23:15
night until Wednesday afternoon when the
00:23:17
race finished I didn't take my shoes or
00:23:19
socks off it was just like if a blister
00:23:22
opens up if I tear some flesh off I'm
00:23:24
just gonna I'm just gonna run through it
00:23:26
and that's what I continue to do so yeah
00:23:27
my feet were super ugly and minced up
00:23:29
afterwards however I just dealt with it
00:23:32
I mean I basically figured provided like
00:23:34
I could still stand on my feet and and I
00:23:37
mean they were painful but yeah either
00:23:39
way they're going to be painful yeah
00:23:40
were you in physical pain yeah yeah
00:23:43
absolutely I mean I had like achy knees
00:23:45
achy achy joints achy hips achy bloody
00:23:49
everything a bit of full body pain and
00:23:51
then my feet were were swollen mince
00:23:55
meat at times I thought have I have I
00:23:58
got a stress fracture in one of my bone
00:24:00
and one of my foot bones or Toes or or
00:24:03
whatever and and then yeah
00:24:06
from from Sunday through to Wednesday
00:24:08
like every okay every now and then like
00:24:11
you'd occasionally feel like a blister
00:24:12
form and like a real bad one and it
00:24:15
would burn like it'd be searing heat and
00:24:17
you'd be like oh and I'd do a bit of a
00:24:19
scream and then be like oh well that
00:24:20
that'll probably go away in about an
00:24:22
hour
00:24:23
see I think this is what at least part
00:24:25
of what separates you from most of
00:24:27
society uh you know pain is as your body
00:24:31
sending you a message right there that
00:24:33
you need to you know stop or do
00:24:35
something about it
00:24:36
um so how do you just keep going through
00:24:37
it
00:24:38
I guess I've it's not that I like pain
00:24:41
it's that maybe I've just learned to
00:24:43
tolerate it a bit more than your average
00:24:45
human and
00:24:46
I guess I've normalized it it's like
00:24:49
like these things aren't comfortable
00:24:51
and and you're going to be in a level of
00:24:54
pain but I mean
00:24:56
what you're experiencing right now is
00:24:58
finite
00:24:59
like it has an end so deal with it
00:25:02
and in a day
00:25:04
or in two days or in five days that's
00:25:06
gonna be done and then you just sit down
00:25:08
and you can have a beer and you're gonna
00:25:10
have Yarns and you can have stories and
00:25:13
you're gonna you're gonna appreciate it
00:25:15
so just do the thing that you're hating
00:25:18
in the moment and then you'll love
00:25:19
yourself a little bit more afterwards
00:25:21
yeah I suppose it's like the um the the
00:25:23
well-used Mantra painters temporary
00:25:25
glorious forever straight up I was I was
00:25:28
yelling that to myself uh I'm not sure
00:25:31
if it was at the Australian race but it
00:25:32
was it was at the one in Christchurch
00:25:35
just gone which
00:25:37
was probably actually more of a struggle
00:25:38
to be honest yeah so um so the
00:25:41
Australian one and uh dead Cal Valley we
00:25:43
need to get into that race shortly we've
00:25:44
been going for 26 minutes but you're so
00:25:46
fascinating
00:25:48
um so you came back from that having
00:25:50
um tied the world record of 677 K's then
00:25:52
you did another event like a week later
00:25:54
two weeks later uh nine days nine days
00:25:56
later
00:25:58
what'd you coach say
00:26:01
um
00:26:04
my my coach is on the special end of the
00:26:08
spectrum I mean like he does it
00:26:09
definitely doesn't like advise this type
00:26:11
is that is that Barry McGee yeah yeah
00:26:13
Barry McGee by the way um for anyone
00:26:15
that doesn't he was one of the first
00:26:16
guests on my podcast I think like
00:26:18
episode seven or episode eight oh wow um
00:26:20
he won a bronze medal for the marathon
00:26:22
at the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome the
00:26:25
last like 10 or 15 case were running
00:26:26
like pitch dark yeah um so they were
00:26:28
like Ticky torches on the side of the
00:26:30
road to guide the way and he had no idea
00:26:31
when he finished that he'd won a medal
00:26:33
but he was coached by um Arthur lydiard
00:26:35
and he's sort of carrying on that mental
00:26:37
and I suppose the knowledge that he
00:26:39
passes on to you is going to be passed
00:26:40
on to another generation but hey Barry
00:26:43
McGee fantastic like distance Runner
00:26:44
marathon runner but um he knows nothing
00:26:46
about you know like lapse racing yeah
00:26:49
he's um he's definitely struggled over
00:26:51
the last year or so too
00:26:54
come to terms with the backyard Ultra
00:26:56
concept especially like
00:26:59
uh I feel like it would have been right
00:27:01
enough for Lydia's wheelhouse though
00:27:02
right yeah yeah I mean he was alive
00:27:05
he definitely appreciates
00:27:08
he definitely appreciates like the level
00:27:10
of Madness that it takes he he likes the
00:27:14
the alternative and the and the kind of
00:27:16
groundbreaking
00:27:17
aspect of the sport so he likes it from
00:27:20
that but yeah I've definitely explained
00:27:23
the concept of a backyard and running
00:27:25
loops and there are only being one
00:27:28
person left standing and and that type
00:27:29
of thing to him a few times have you
00:27:32
have you sort of outgrown him as a coach
00:27:34
now do you think
00:27:36
I suppose what I'm asking is is there
00:27:38
like a specialist um like backyards or
00:27:40
Ultra ultra distance coach that you can
00:27:43
tap into I think I am
00:27:48
I'm probably at the point where I am
00:27:50
the inventor in the world of backyard
00:27:54
like
00:27:55
I am coaching myself on that aspect and
00:27:59
and and
00:28:00
coaching others and educating others on
00:28:02
on how they they can go deep I mean
00:28:06
I've made no secret about how I do this
00:28:09
I've put out videos I was like you want
00:28:10
the secret sauce here it is do this do
00:28:13
this this this and this and you will you
00:28:15
can win the only thing that's stopping
00:28:17
you is is your your desire to push
00:28:20
through the pain uh
00:28:23
on on the berry front though like yeah
00:28:25
no he's
00:28:27
he's a wealth of knowledge he's helped
00:28:30
me to
00:28:31
uh essentially do what needs to be done
00:28:35
like you'll lie to yourself and you'll
00:28:38
cheat yourself any day of the week and I
00:28:40
reached out to him because I knew
00:28:43
exactly what I needed to do and running
00:28:44
I needed I needed to be doing 100 mile a
00:28:46
week at least week after week but it was
00:28:49
actually having someone to
00:28:52
break it down into into what workouts I
00:28:54
needed to be doing and and then also
00:28:58
just basically having someone to to
00:29:00
bounce ideas off and and be honest to
00:29:02
and like it means rather than skipping a
00:29:06
workout or skipping a week like I've got
00:29:08
him that is expecting me to be doing
00:29:11
this so he's getting yeah he's
00:29:15
essentially there as the the police
00:29:18
officer to make sure I'm I'm sticking to
00:29:20
the rules okay he's he's a great man can
00:29:22
I ask what he charges you what is it
00:29:24
some insanely low amount yeah he's 20
00:29:27
bucks a week what he's far too cheap I
00:29:28
think it's like 500 bucks a year or
00:29:30
something yeah he I guess it's like 10
00:29:32
bucks a week he he just loves still
00:29:34
being involved in that Community
00:29:36
um and it's a it's an absolute joy to
00:29:38
see someone else I've had on the podcast
00:29:39
uh twice now Arch jelly who's 100 almost
00:29:42
101. John Walker's Old Coach and he's
00:29:45
the same he's on Strava following people
00:29:47
keeps an eye on what Sam 10 is up to
00:29:49
it's it's blood it's amazing it's
00:29:51
amazing that these guys that have done
00:29:53
incredible things themselves in their
00:29:54
own Pursuits
00:29:56
um now still live sort of vicariously
00:29:57
through you know the likes of you I
00:29:59
guess yeah that's cool okay so all right
00:30:02
let's go to dead cow Galley did Calgary
00:30:04
so this is um sort of Inland from the
00:30:07
Sunshine Coast yeah so it's a couple of
00:30:09
hours in land yeah a couple hours in
00:30:11
land so you're like you fly into
00:30:12
Brisbane and then you drive like two
00:30:14
slash two and a half hours like
00:30:15
Northwest up into the kind of the
00:30:17
Outback area and it's on a cattle
00:30:20
station in a place called nanango which
00:30:22
is a bit of a middle of nowhere type
00:30:24
place
00:30:25
pretty much everywhere in Australia is
00:30:27
in the middle of nowhere middle of
00:30:28
nowhere place so how many people start
00:30:31
how many I think we had like a little
00:30:33
over a hundred again like 120 or
00:30:35
something started that race yep same
00:30:37
what's the um what's the track like so
00:30:39
6.7 K's uh so this one was trying to
00:30:42
replicate the World Championship uh
00:30:44
Big's backyard course so it had a day
00:30:47
Loop and a night Loop you did 12 hours
00:30:48
on the day Loop and then 12 hours on the
00:30:50
night Loop uh the day Loop was basically
00:30:52
around the kettle station so it's a dry
00:30:56
desserty type Outback stuff so a lot
00:30:59
like orange dirt uh
00:31:02
kind of like orangey dirt like very very
00:31:04
dusty though so like the the landscape
00:31:07
was very much like burnt burnt Browns
00:31:10
and yellows uh and then like
00:31:13
dotted around with like eucalyptus trees
00:31:15
and stuff like that
00:31:17
and uh yeah bright blue sky and yeah
00:31:20
just very very vibrant
00:31:22
vibrant Outback colors which was cool
00:31:24
what sort of temperature during the day
00:31:27
I want to say it was in the 20s during
00:31:28
the day it was
00:31:31
yeah it was it was warm slash hot but it
00:31:34
was it was dry so like yeah normally I'd
00:31:38
run around in the days during these with
00:31:40
a bit of humidity so I'd have my top off
00:31:41
and be cooling down that way but yeah
00:31:43
for the most part like it was top on uh
00:31:47
warm but there was a bit of Cool Breeze
00:31:51
from time to time so that made that made
00:31:53
the days very enjoyable yeah and it's
00:31:54
pretty flat uh yeah that course was very
00:31:57
flat so I think at most there might have
00:31:58
been like 45 meters of of the the during
00:32:02
during the 6.7 kilometer course which is
00:32:04
very it's it's very relaxed okay so the
00:32:07
Run starts
00:32:09
um what are you doing the first lap
00:32:12
uh I kind of come out guns are blazing
00:32:16
and just say
00:32:17
hey guys I'm I'm here to do business and
00:32:20
I I do a hot hot 26 minute lap [ __ ] say
00:32:24
like four minute case just under four
00:32:25
minute case so you're quite a handy
00:32:27
Runner you're quite a fast runner yeah
00:32:29
I've got Pace yeah yeah
00:32:30
[ __ ] is it's advisable what does Barry
00:32:32
McGee say about that ah like the
00:32:35
sensible thing you would think would be
00:32:36
to go as slow as what you can in the
00:32:38
first one I mean something I think at
00:32:40
this point in the in the backyard Ultra
00:32:41
I'm almost helping to write the rule
00:32:43
book uh
00:32:45
I mean like I'm kind of at the upper
00:32:47
level of the performance so like I can
00:32:49
kind of
00:32:50
do what I want I mean like although I'm
00:32:53
saying they're going into this race you
00:32:54
were you were Mr 46 hours so that's a
00:32:57
that's a very very Brash ballsy cocky
00:33:01
arrogant move yeah definitely but I mean
00:33:04
like I know what my body can do yeah
00:33:05
yeah yeah yeah I mean doing doing one
00:33:07
little hot lap at 26 for me is is
00:33:10
definitely not at my upper limit like
00:33:12
it's not like I was doing three minute
00:33:13
15ks or anything so it was definitely
00:33:15
within within my wheelhouse and then I
00:33:17
settle into Pace and I and then I do
00:33:19
nice slow like 45 to 50 minute Loops so
00:33:24
just to fire an early shot really yeah
00:33:26
pretty much yeah so the guy that ended
00:33:28
up winning Phil Gore what did he do in
00:33:29
the first lap you know I don't know you
00:33:31
don't care no not really so you must be
00:33:34
so you finished that first lap used
00:33:36
about a half an hour to go before you go
00:33:38
again you must have been bored shitless
00:33:39
what are you
00:33:40
well the joke was that in future I
00:33:44
should pump out one of these hot laps
00:33:46
and then record a podcast yeah
00:33:49
do it do a 30 minute podcast what and
00:33:52
and like cheer everybody over the line
00:33:54
and give them do interviews with them so
00:33:56
that might be uh that might be World
00:33:58
champs this year in terms of Mind Games
00:34:00
that's not bad yeah just a little bit of
00:34:01
[ __ ] okay so so
00:34:04
um so you start these events so the
00:34:05
first one you fire out a 30 minute lap
00:34:08
um
00:34:09
you might you you know you how long is
00:34:12
it boring for like you know it's going
00:34:13
to get hard but is it the first like 10
00:34:15
hours 12 hours
00:34:17
um usually in the regional events so
00:34:19
like the ones dotted all around the
00:34:21
country that have done previously like
00:34:22
they only usually go for
00:34:25
a day and a half ish
00:34:27
and I'm normally bored for the first 24
00:34:30
hours
00:34:31
because I'm just like plus I've done so
00:34:34
many of these in some of these events
00:34:35
I've done I've done the same course like
00:34:37
a few times like a few years in a row so
00:34:39
I yeah I am bored and I'm like what am I
00:34:42
doing here and then and then it finally
00:34:44
gets to the pointy end of the race and
00:34:46
and then things get interesting
00:34:48
with this one because it obviously went
00:34:51
for so much longer like I think I was
00:34:53
nearly 48 hours into the race before I
00:34:56
was like not bored anymore so
00:35:00
but then after that once once people
00:35:01
start dying off and and you get
00:35:05
you get shy of numbers it's like oh
00:35:07
we're racing now and that's and that's
00:35:09
what I when I get interested because
00:35:11
it's
00:35:12
after that point after
00:35:15
you're down to maybe
00:35:17
less than 20 or less particularly less
00:35:19
than 15 Runners it's like oh like we
00:35:22
these these are the people that mean
00:35:23
business it's like these are these are
00:35:26
the people who came here with intention
00:35:27
because is there a lot of people that
00:35:30
set the goal in mind maybe of uh I don't
00:35:32
know like 100ks or 100 miles or 24 hours
00:35:35
or whatever yeah definitely yeah
00:35:36
definitely done yeah yeah
00:35:39
um is that um does it give you like a
00:35:42
boost when people drop off
00:35:45
um it depends I mean like if
00:35:47
if maybe you don't get along with a
00:35:49
certain person like maybe if somebody's
00:35:51
been a bit of a dick and you're just
00:35:54
like ah see ya then yeah but now for the
00:35:57
most part especially because you like
00:35:59
you form such strong bonds out there
00:36:01
like like a lot of these people are your
00:36:03
friends yeah and when you see them drop
00:36:05
off you like almost hurts you a bit like
00:36:08
especially
00:36:09
there's a guy Ryan Crawford he's the
00:36:12
Australian number two and he he dipped
00:36:16
on the I think it was on the second
00:36:17
night and I was hoping to like go
00:36:21
go deep with him yeah is he a mate or
00:36:23
you just saying
00:36:25
um he just seems to be on the same kind
00:36:27
of spiritual
00:36:29
Journey slash hammering the sport the
00:36:32
same way I do is a bit of a battler and
00:36:33
he's just an all-around good sort and we
00:36:35
made friends out on course and yeah he
00:36:38
was going downhill so I was like I was
00:36:40
trying to
00:36:41
I I guess give him a bit of emotional
00:36:43
support out on the course and then I
00:36:45
also said to my crew I was like
00:36:47
um go over to go over to Ryan's tent and
00:36:50
like
00:36:51
give them give them some way and Tessa
00:36:53
give him some of my lecture like him
00:36:56
some of this give him some of that and
00:36:57
see if we can get him right because he
00:36:58
was like really struggling
00:37:00
and yeah so
00:37:03
uh yeah it it sucked when he disappeared
00:37:07
and then likewise I made really good
00:37:09
mates with a guy called Harvey Lewis
00:37:10
who's number one out of the US and
00:37:13
we were running together for like a good
00:37:15
solid two days and formed like a wild
00:37:21
bond between Runners and yeah he he
00:37:24
disappeared after 90 hours and that
00:37:26
really hit me too so yeah let's get
00:37:28
let's get into that because it was like
00:37:30
a three-hour how long was it three
00:37:31
runners for because it was yourself
00:37:33
Harvey Lewis who you just mentioned in
00:37:34
the eventual winner Phil Gore how long
00:37:36
was it a three horse race for like the
00:37:39
final 24 hours or longer um so
00:37:43
I think the fourth place Runner gave up
00:37:47
just after the 60 hour mark
00:37:49
basically he was he had been on the
00:37:52
qualifying list or the at-large list for
00:37:55
the world championship previously but
00:37:57
now there's been a a lot more people
00:38:00
hammering and trying to get to world
00:38:01
championships that tier has gone up and
00:38:03
so I think his qualification was
00:38:05
something in the 50s and now 50s the 50s
00:38:08
doesn't get you in basically you've got
00:38:09
to do hundreds of the new 50. pretty
00:38:12
much so you've got you've got to do 60
00:38:13
plus hours to get on to that list if you
00:38:15
haven't automatically qualified and he
00:38:18
was trying to get back on the list which
00:38:20
he did I can't remember if he dipped
00:38:22
after 60 hours but it kind of been that
00:38:24
long after and yeah so for
00:38:28
from 60 60 something hours through to 90
00:38:31
hours there was three of us and then
00:38:33
Harvey
00:38:35
and then Harvey dipped on the 90th hour
00:38:38
so yeah so this is what I was talking
00:38:41
about early on when um yeah the last
00:38:43
couple of days of this race could be
00:38:44
turned into a movie just the Dynamics
00:38:46
and the characters and things so
00:38:48
um Phil what do you know about Phil Gord
00:38:50
are you friends with Phil Gore uh he's a
00:38:53
competitor yeah
00:38:54
until recently did you see him as you
00:38:58
know like um like more than a competitor
00:38:59
like you like that's the guy I've got a
00:39:01
[ __ ] beat uh yeah I mean look up to
00:39:03
him I did I definitely saw him as like
00:39:06
someone who was like pushing High
00:39:07
numbers so I was like sweet hell that's
00:39:09
the Benchmark uh not not so much The
00:39:11
Benchmark but like if someone's gonna
00:39:13
turn up and and throw down with me and
00:39:15
go as far as like I want to go then yeah
00:39:18
it's probably there's probably him
00:39:20
there's Harvey uh there's Ryan Crawford
00:39:23
these These are the guys that if
00:39:25
anybody's gonna go to to the world
00:39:27
record and further with me it's these
00:39:29
these guys are are going to be the ones
00:39:31
that that lay down yeah so before this
00:39:34
event
00:39:35
um if someone said to Phil Gore what do
00:39:37
you know about Sam Harvey what would he
00:39:38
have said were you on his radar at all
00:39:40
or yeah he's definitely been studying me
00:39:42
for a while yeah I think he's been
00:39:43
following my strawberry and whatever so
00:39:46
yeah he's definitely kind of seen me as
00:39:49
the as the guy the up and Camera the the
00:39:51
guy over in New Zealand who's who's
00:39:53
doing things okay and what about Harvey
00:39:55
Lewis what do you know about Harvey
00:39:56
Lewis prior to this event I mean
00:39:58
Harvey's I would argue in the top 10
00:40:01
most famous ultra distance athletes out
00:40:03
of America and like in in in current
00:40:07
times so like yeah he's
00:40:08
world famous like his his reputation
00:40:11
precedes him as an amazing Runner both
00:40:13
in both in the backyard Ultra but he's
00:40:15
run for
00:40:16
the
00:40:18
U.S 24-hour team like
00:40:21
countless times and he
00:40:25
he literally just finished bad water 135
00:40:28
this morning or last night so that was
00:40:30
his 12th running of the bad water 135 so
00:40:33
yeah he's a he's an animal and
00:40:36
yeah I definitely knew who he was and
00:40:39
now you weren't friends there was no
00:40:41
like pre-existing sort of relationship
00:40:42
to speak of no no not at all social
00:40:44
media friends
00:40:46
oh I think I was following yeah I was
00:40:48
following him but you never met though
00:40:50
prior to the dead Cal value no no so why
00:40:54
did you guys decide to link up and sort
00:40:55
of form I don't know like a bromance or
00:40:57
whatever you want to call it I don't
00:40:59
know just an alliance maybe just had the
00:41:00
spark really yeah like how why I don't
00:41:03
know and just got got to yarning and he
00:41:05
was it was a good lad and
00:41:07
I don't know there was just something
00:41:09
intangible that like really clicked and
00:41:11
then all of a sudden we're out there
00:41:13
running Loops uh
00:41:16
shouting at the woods and having a good
00:41:18
time
00:41:20
I've got other
00:41:23
I guess Nashville Tennessee over in the
00:41:25
US as my second home which is where I
00:41:28
kind of like built a bit of a life
00:41:29
around like rugby and all that and
00:41:31
that's where I met my now wife Anna and
00:41:34
so I guess we've got like a little bit
00:41:37
of a common ground of yeah we we do
00:41:39
ultra marathons but actually I've also
00:41:42
I appreciate the hell out of the US and
00:41:45
and all things American well not all
00:41:47
things but yeah
00:41:50
we'll exclude gun violence from the list
00:41:52
and then a number of other things yeah I
00:41:54
know what you mean I love American
00:41:55
culture as well exactly so um yeah we
00:41:58
got chatting and yeah all of a sudden we
00:42:01
were yawning shouting
00:42:03
keep keeping each other's moods going
00:42:05
and yeah all of a sudden it was the
00:42:07
Harvey Show and like yeah yeah Sam
00:42:09
Harvey and Harvey Lewis Harvey and
00:42:11
Harvey yeah we might need to get you
00:42:13
onto our onto the Harvey Show and there
00:42:15
it could be Harvey Harvey and Harvey you
00:42:17
guys can pull me through lap five come
00:42:18
on Tom stick with it that's the one so
00:42:22
um and
00:42:23
um most of these backyard events they
00:42:25
have like your sort of um like a like a
00:42:27
campsite if you will but this one you
00:42:29
were like sleeping in a house at night
00:42:31
uh so the race base was centered around
00:42:34
The Farmhouse where the where the race
00:42:38
director he actually lives and so I was
00:42:40
like this old
00:42:42
weatherboard
00:42:43
farm house
00:42:45
and I wasn't in there until like the
00:42:47
fourth night so I was just out in the
00:42:49
campsite out with everybody else who was
00:42:51
in there in the early nights or was it
00:42:53
one of those
00:42:54
um situations where they waited till the
00:42:56
field had whittled down to a small
00:42:57
enough number that all the competitors
00:42:59
could go into a house no not quite so so
00:43:02
Harvey they'd obviously he was the
00:43:06
he was the he was he was the money
00:43:08
ticket like he he
00:43:10
had been brought over by the race
00:43:12
director they'd pay for paid for his
00:43:13
flights and put him up and and done all
00:43:16
that and so he was the VIP he was the
00:43:19
VIP so he he was he was in there from
00:43:21
the start of the race uh had his own
00:43:23
bedroom and all that it seems like an
00:43:24
unfair advantage in a way no maybe and
00:43:27
then also Phil Gore who was the
00:43:29
Australian Champion the adventure winner
00:43:31
he was in the house as well from from
00:43:33
the get-go right and then uh and then it
00:43:35
was on the fourth fourth night uh they
00:43:38
gave you a key to the house yeah they
00:43:40
the the race director gave gave me his
00:43:42
bedroom uh and so I got to move into the
00:43:45
house and and so I went from like kind
00:43:47
of sitting around the
00:43:49
the campfire and a camp chair or in a
00:43:52
gazebo to to like sitting in a bedroom
00:43:55
slash lying on a bed for for 10 minutes
00:43:58
we've only been chatting for 45 minutes
00:44:00
but I'm I'm guessing you don't give a
00:44:02
flying fackle either way whether you're
00:44:03
in a like a pull out chair next to a
00:44:05
tent or you're in a house not really
00:44:06
it's all business to you yeah I mean
00:44:08
yeah but it must be nice what was the
00:44:11
what was the climate like there at night
00:44:12
was it bloody freezing it's cold as hell
00:44:14
yeah yeah so it must be nice it would
00:44:16
have been a luxury Right Moving from a
00:44:18
campsite into a house yeah definitely
00:44:20
yeah yeah it was do you you sleep at all
00:44:23
in those later stages what was the
00:44:24
biggest sleep you had I think the
00:44:26
biggest sleep I had was 15 minutes right
00:44:29
see I and what was the average sleep
00:44:31
like five minutes eight minutes 60
00:44:34
seconds maybe 180 seconds three seconds
00:44:36
uh three minutes
00:44:38
it's not a fear that your support crew
00:44:41
won't better wake you up
00:44:42
now my my support crew have a job
00:44:45
60 seconds doesn't seem worth it
00:44:48
it's all sleep at the end of the day bro
00:44:53
plugging your phone in for 60 seconds
00:44:55
yeah man
00:44:58
you'd be surprised what it can do
00:45:01
yeah I suppose a couple more texts yeah
00:45:03
I mean a starving man will probably kill
00:45:05
you for a peanut yeah yeah that's a good
00:45:07
one
00:45:08
um okay so yes are you and Harvey Lewis
00:45:10
is it a is it like a a formal sort of
00:45:13
check you have or is it informal or you
00:45:15
just end up running together and yeah we
00:45:17
just end up running together and when
00:45:18
does this happen like day three
00:45:21
yeah maybe day two or three like yeah
00:45:23
definitely what like once it's like the
00:45:25
numbers are whittling down and yeah it
00:45:27
just seems to be that
00:45:28
we're chatting more and more and getting
00:45:31
into a system of like maybe running and
00:45:34
then walking for a little bit and and
00:45:36
basically hitting different different
00:45:38
points out on course at certain times to
00:45:41
allow us to uh yeah basically get a
00:45:45
get to the end of of the course with
00:45:47
with time to spear to do what we need to
00:45:49
at the end of each hour but also kind of
00:45:51
rest our bodies so we're not kind of
00:45:53
hammering it hammering our bodies into
00:45:55
the ground because what's what's the
00:45:57
dream in those letter stages is it like
00:45:58
10 minutes at the end of the hour
00:46:00
yeah I was definitely getting 10 yeah 10
00:46:03
plus minutes uh once we like once me and
00:46:07
Harvey were like I know in the evening
00:46:09
slash doing air like our walk run walk
00:46:12
run walk run little little setup then
00:46:15
yeah maybe we were doing like 52 or 54.
00:46:17
minutes per left but yeah that's still
00:46:19
plenty of time to
00:46:22
eat drink
00:46:23
sleep whatever yeah and I suppose with
00:46:26
two of you doing it you help keep each
00:46:28
other honest in terms of the the walk
00:46:29
run breaks yeah so they don't blow out
00:46:31
so how did that look like say 10 minutes
00:46:33
run three minutes walk what was the
00:46:36
system like seven on three off
00:46:41
three on two off three on two off so it
00:46:44
was like seven minutes to get you in and
00:46:46
then like and then a three two three two
00:46:48
kind of like a really weird fat lick
00:46:50
sort of system yeah pretty pretty pretty
00:46:52
much and um
00:46:54
and then like
00:46:56
you're probably having to take a leak
00:46:58
every hour so like yeah
00:46:59
you're stopping to do that the other
00:47:01
person continues and maybe you have to
00:47:03
do a jog to to catch up to where where
00:47:04
they are and then that allows you to
00:47:06
kind of hit or I mean by the time you've
00:47:10
by the time you've even run something
00:47:12
like 24 laps or 30 laps like you get a
00:47:15
pretty good idea of where you're
00:47:16
supposed to be and when down to down to
00:47:19
the like the second
00:47:21
like you're you're hitting the same
00:47:23
plots out on the course
00:47:26
like within one second variation lap
00:47:29
after lap quite often or it's yeah it's
00:47:32
very it's it's very accurate so so
00:47:35
Harvey Lewis and yourself you were
00:47:36
running together with intention where
00:47:39
where was felt like was he did he sort
00:47:42
of sit just behind you guys was he
00:47:43
monitoring it's got to be so much more
00:47:45
of an advantage like like teaming up
00:47:47
with someone else right I think he was
00:47:48
around like 39 minutes 40. so he was
00:47:51
ahead of you he wasn't he yeah yeah wow
00:47:54
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure
00:47:55
someone said he was running 39 minutes
00:47:57
40 and he was running that like
00:47:58
clockwork like like
00:48:00
39 minutes 40 Years Phil 39 minutes 40.
00:48:04
here's Phil
00:48:05
um unbelievable yeah so a bit of a
00:48:08
machine so he was just coming in and he
00:48:09
was running this hot laps me and Harvey
00:48:11
were more kind of just chilling having
00:48:12
our conversation getting the job done
00:48:14
yeah and and what happened to Harvey
00:48:16
Lewis
00:48:18
um when did he start to fade
00:48:20
uh so I think the 90th hour was his last
00:48:24
hour that he completed which
00:48:27
he holds the he held the American record
00:48:29
at 85 hours so he upped his American
00:48:31
record to 90 hours okay and yeah I guess
00:48:35
it was in the last few hours like he was
00:48:36
just getting a bit slower and his
00:48:39
his conversation was getting a little
00:48:40
bit funky and like I didn't realize that
00:48:42
he was maybe kind of losing it
00:48:45
but yeah he was slowing and slow and
00:48:47
That Was Then slowing me down and then I
00:48:49
was like yo bro like I I actually
00:48:52
I need a bit more rest
00:48:54
I'm gonna need to like jog this one and
00:48:56
so like I'm not gonna do any walk and
00:48:57
he's like yeah no bro you you do what
00:48:59
you got to do so I'd like I'd start
00:49:01
jogging and I'd
00:49:03
I'd get more and more rest like
00:49:06
getting 10 and 11 and 12 and 15 minutes
00:49:09
of rest
00:49:11
and
00:49:12
I guess maybe in that time maybe Harvey
00:49:14
was
00:49:16
slowing down getting less and less rest
00:49:18
maybe getting less and less food or less
00:49:21
water or maybe it was getting colder I
00:49:23
don't know what what was happening but
00:49:24
yeah eventually it was getting slower
00:49:26
and slower and yeah I I passed them on
00:49:28
one Loop
00:49:30
to give and like gave him gave him some
00:49:32
UPS I was like come on bro like don't
00:49:34
give up on me like smash it out I'll see
00:49:36
you at the end and it's just like
00:49:38
I don't think I'm gonna finish this one
00:49:40
man
00:49:41
I was like oh [ __ ] so I finished my Loop
00:49:45
and yeah as I'm like coming towards the
00:49:47
end of my loop I should be crop should
00:49:48
have crossed over with him at that point
00:49:51
and I can't see him I'm like damn like
00:49:53
he's he's out like I can't help him so I
00:49:56
run into the race base and I say is
00:49:57
Harvey back yet like has he has he given
00:50:00
up and like walked just cut course and
00:50:02
walked home
00:50:04
and they're like nah and I was like go
00:50:06
get him like go get Harvey was this in
00:50:09
darkness was this night time or daytime
00:50:10
yeah it was it was Darkness like pitch
00:50:12
black and cold yeah
00:50:15
so I yeah I was like go get Harvey so I
00:50:17
was like drive down the road turn right
00:50:20
find him bring him back and yeah that's
00:50:23
what they did and and after this um
00:50:25
intense
00:50:27
um but very brief on the big scheme of
00:50:29
things relationship like how do you feel
00:50:32
at the time like are you
00:50:34
um are you sad at the time are you
00:50:36
bummed out are you able to process it or
00:50:37
are you like just [ __ ] I've got a job to
00:50:39
do I can compartmentalize this and deal
00:50:41
with it later oh I was devastated well
00:50:43
yeah at the time especially because like
00:50:45
we'd
00:50:46
been there for each other for so long
00:50:50
I've done another podcast and I've
00:50:51
actually cried at this at this at this
00:50:53
point in the podcast so I'm doing well
00:50:55
right now like it's pretty damn
00:50:56
emotional for me uh
00:50:59
yeah I felt like I hadn't been there to
00:51:03
to save him when like like going into
00:51:05
that night Loop going into the 12 hours
00:51:09
of night
00:51:10
I may
00:51:12
have well saved him getting off the day
00:51:15
course because he was going really slow
00:51:17
like I was I was doing a pretty slow
00:51:19
Loop like maybe one of my slowest but he
00:51:21
was going even slower and I was
00:51:23
and I could see him in the distance and
00:51:25
I started shouting at him across across
00:51:27
the galley
00:51:28
to hurry his ass up and then I just
00:51:31
started jinging him up and chowing and
00:51:33
just like making so much noise so that
00:51:35
he would like
00:51:37
like yeah like a cheerleader for him
00:51:39
nothing not that you necessarily had
00:51:40
extra energy to spare but yeah like they
00:51:43
were running you were dealing with your
00:51:43
own battles but yeah I was kind of
00:51:46
giving them the like the kick up the ass
00:51:47
or at least the encouragement to like
00:51:49
get that Loop done because as soon as
00:51:51
you got that Loop done we're out on the
00:51:52
night course and it's been a bit of a
00:51:55
change of pace change of scenery in a
00:51:57
different ball game for the next 12
00:51:58
hours so yeah I guess I'd I'd help them
00:52:01
to get there and I'd help them to do
00:52:03
certain certain things throughout the
00:52:05
race and yeah uh I guess I'd lost my
00:52:08
brother at that point like I'd lost I'd
00:52:10
lost someone who was invested in my race
00:52:13
and I was invested in his race
00:52:16
hmm
00:52:17
do you think you've got like um
00:52:19
like success guilt or Survivor guilt or
00:52:22
something yeah a little bit of that yeah
00:52:23
definitely definitely Survivor guilt um
00:52:27
but you can't save everybody at the end
00:52:29
of the day well he's ultimately he's
00:52:31
running his own run and you're running
00:52:32
yours right yeah you've got you've got
00:52:34
to be responsible for yourself out there
00:52:36
um like
00:52:38
I mean technically you're not allowed to
00:52:40
render Aid in one of these like once
00:52:42
you're out there you're out there I mean
00:52:44
like yeah you can like you can encourage
00:52:45
people and all that but like you can't
00:52:47
you can't pick them up you can't carry
00:52:50
them you can't give them food or water
00:52:52
or a light or anything it's like once
00:52:54
they're out they're out there and you've
00:52:55
got to look after yourself and then at
00:52:57
the end of the day like we are at that
00:52:58
at that tier where it's like you you're
00:53:02
you're the Professionals of the sport
00:53:03
it's like you
00:53:06
you know how to get it done and you know
00:53:09
how to mess it up so yeah it's it's all
00:53:13
on you out there really
00:53:14
what do you what do you think you um you
00:53:16
feel about it now like is it is it sort
00:53:18
of like an overwhelming sadness is it
00:53:20
grief is it guilt what is it
00:53:23
um if it is guilt it shouldn't be yeah I
00:53:26
don't know you know what I mean yeah
00:53:28
like
00:53:29
the feelings have faded a wee bit and
00:53:31
and in all honesty look
00:53:33
I've gone and matched the world record
00:53:36
slash assisted the new world record
00:53:39
and then done what nobody thought could
00:53:41
be done and turned around in a week
00:53:43
later
00:53:43
gone and won another last man standing
00:53:46
at 288ks which is like between the two
00:53:49
races I've done 965 kilometers in the
00:53:51
space of two weeks which is like
00:53:53
wild and it's great for the Strava stats
00:53:56
yeah Kudos on that
00:53:59
yeah just like I think I've got three
00:54:01
weeks in a row where my average is like
00:54:03
something like 300 kilometers which is
00:54:06
wild but um yeah like everybody knew
00:54:09
that Harvey was going into this race and
00:54:12
then he was going to back it up with bad
00:54:13
water 135 so he was like
00:54:15
everyone's like you're a Madman to to go
00:54:19
and turn around and do that
00:54:21
and then before he'd gone to bed water
00:54:22
I'd gone and smash this one out and he's
00:54:24
sending me things like damn bro you made
00:54:26
me you make me feel guilty now I've got
00:54:28
to like go and do it I've got to go hard
00:54:30
at bad water or you're going to make me
00:54:31
look bad I'm like like both of us have
00:54:33
just smashed out like
00:54:36
potentially once in a lifetime
00:54:38
achievements like he came third overall
00:54:40
mail for bad water and I came first for
00:54:44
my last man's my second last man
00:54:45
standing event like yeah you guys are
00:54:48
cutting your own path yeah
00:54:50
we're we're dominating so so you're um
00:54:53
boys for life now straight up yeah yeah
00:54:55
yeah yeah like just this this bond that
00:54:58
can never be broken now yeah the Harvey
00:55:00
Show how old's he and how old are you
00:55:02
I thought he was 41 and I Googled him
00:55:06
the other day I think he's like 47 or 48
00:55:07
right so what are you I just turned 30
00:55:10
something so he's like so you're very
00:55:12
young for the sport that's encouraging
00:55:13
right oh that's that's wildly
00:55:16
encouraging yeah like a lot of these a
00:55:18
lot of athletes and ultra marathon don't
00:55:20
Peak until they're like late 30s or like
00:55:21
into their 40s
00:55:23
and I've essentially managed to get to
00:55:27
the top top tier in the world by 30 like
00:55:31
I was national champion at 29 I'm now
00:55:34
at world champion slash world record
00:55:37
level by 30 and the way I see I've got
00:55:40
at least a 15-year career ahead of me so
00:55:43
that's your knees might disagree with
00:55:45
that but we'll see I mean I think Harvey
00:55:47
is a pretty good example of longevity
00:55:49
like yeah yeah as long as you do
00:55:51
everything right and do all the rehab
00:55:52
and strength and conditioning you'll be
00:55:53
sweeter exactly but I mean like stats
00:55:55
wise like someone came out with the with
00:55:57
the world stats the other day and I'm
00:55:59
the
00:56:00
I think I'm the youngest
00:56:02
the youngest person in the top 30 in in
00:56:05
the world and I'm the only person born
00:56:09
after 1990
00:56:11
in the top 20.
00:56:14
[ __ ] how good yeah so good and everybody
00:56:17
else is like born in the like the 60s
00:56:20
70s 80s like they're all they're all old
00:56:24
it's like the running version of lawn
00:56:25
bowls there's the odd outlier the young
00:56:28
person doing it but it's me yeah yeah
00:56:30
how good so um yeah so Harvey he tapped
00:56:33
out at 91 hours it was um lap 95 95
00:56:37
hours were you where you collapsed
00:56:40
run us through that what happened there
00:56:42
yeah I guess I just I'd gone into the
00:56:44
race with
00:56:45
a bit of a cold or whatever
00:56:48
and then
00:56:49
your immune system regardless of if
00:56:51
you're well or not takes a hit during
00:56:54
these things because you're smashing
00:56:55
your system like generally even if I'm
00:56:57
good going into these races I'll
00:57:00
probably end up with like
00:57:02
mucus phlegm all sorts of block ups for
00:57:05
the next week or two after because my
00:57:07
system's just taking such a hit that's a
00:57:09
lot on the lungs isn't it it's a hell of
00:57:12
a lot of breathing so you end up you
00:57:13
generally end up with a pretty inflamed
00:57:15
um respiratory system anyway but yeah so
00:57:18
I went in with with a cold the cold
00:57:21
progressed by the Saturday night or the
00:57:24
first night into maybe a chest infection
00:57:27
like I was
00:57:29
I was just coughing up and snorting up
00:57:31
like these huge chunks of green like the
00:57:33
size of your knuckle and like not just
00:57:35
one not just one or two like a lot of
00:57:36
them
00:57:37
and that was nasty uh and then by the
00:57:42
Sunday morning they had mostly cleared
00:57:43
and I was like oh sweet we good
00:57:45
run into the Sunday night and I think it
00:57:48
was like Sunday night slash Monday
00:57:49
basically
00:57:51
I've got a permanent nose drip I'm blown
00:57:54
up chunks and coughing up chunks
00:57:57
of both mucous phlegm and blood
00:58:01
and this basically carries on until the
00:58:03
um until the end of the race and I guess
00:58:06
that
00:58:07
progressed into chest infection that
00:58:09
progressed into some type of pneumonia
00:58:11
and then yeah by the end of the race or
00:58:13
by by the 95th hour when I was like out
00:58:15
on course and I just like go down I'm
00:58:17
like
00:58:18
actually struggling for breath and and I
00:58:21
like I come into the Farmhouse at the
00:58:22
end of the hour and I just like collapse
00:58:24
on the couch I don't even get to the
00:58:25
bedroom and just like collapse on the
00:58:26
couch
00:58:29
and like on the floor the like they've
00:58:32
got a videographer the videographer's
00:58:33
got his got his camera in my face and I
00:58:35
look like I'm about to have a heart
00:58:36
attack and uh
00:58:38
yeah
00:58:40
um everybody's like terrified that
00:58:43
I'm gonna die from a from a race
00:58:47
um PR perspective or race director's
00:58:49
perspective the last thing he wants to
00:58:51
death
00:58:51
oh totally yeah it's not great for
00:58:54
business yeah it might look bad on the
00:58:56
resume
00:58:57
well just for future years I I mean if
00:59:00
someone dies it's potentially the end of
00:59:01
an event right yeah I mean or I mean
00:59:04
look at MDS Marathon
00:59:06
what happened there oh people die at
00:59:09
Marathon disabled yeah like most years
00:59:11
I'm pretty sure like so I think that's
00:59:13
just notches in the belt for them yeah
00:59:15
if anything it is it adds to the
00:59:16
notoriety of that event yeah yeah
00:59:19
oh um
00:59:21
I know we can get back to that and I
00:59:22
just I just remembered you sent me a
00:59:24
text last night saying um oh it's a good
00:59:25
time to have me in what what did you
00:59:27
mean what's is there some news blowing
00:59:29
off about your oh no no just I mean like
00:59:31
the like you you obviously wanted to
00:59:33
catch up
00:59:34
like a couple weeks ago
00:59:36
and
00:59:38
and a lot of other people who have
00:59:40
interviewed me have kind of struck while
00:59:41
the Iron's hot and they interviewed me
00:59:43
last week where
00:59:45
last week I just done a world record
00:59:46
this this week I've done a world record
00:59:48
and
00:59:49
and backed it up with this oh they're
00:59:52
Christchurch yeah and like people like
00:59:55
people in my sport they're like you
00:59:57
shouldn't do that like that's like
00:59:59
that's that's a recipe for the disaster
01:00:02
or or you can't do that like there's no
01:00:04
way you're going to win there on top
01:00:04
it's like watch me brother well that I
01:00:08
mean that that's the thing and um this
01:00:09
is why I love speaking to people like
01:00:10
yourself and um do you know jono Riddler
01:00:12
have you heard of Jonah Riddler Jonah
01:00:14
Riddler did a massive swim from um Great
01:00:16
Barrier Island I didn't put a couple of
01:00:18
weeks ago so yeah no no I heard about
01:00:19
that I just didn't know his name it was
01:00:21
99 kilometer ocean swimming just there's
01:00:24
all sorts of rules like you're only
01:00:25
allowed talks you're not allowed a
01:00:26
wetsuit
01:00:27
um not allowed to touch the boat at all
01:00:28
and things that things are only
01:00:31
impossible until someone does them and
01:00:33
then the boundaries get redefined and
01:00:34
that's what I love about guys like
01:00:36
Johnny Riddler and guys like yourself
01:00:37
yeah Ultra Ultra swimming's wild too
01:00:40
because like you're out there you're
01:00:41
swimming but you've got this added a
01:00:43
factor of um basically all of them go
01:00:45
hypoxic make you
01:00:48
you you go Blue while you're out there
01:00:51
and um yeah it's really unhealthy like
01:00:53
someone recently I think swung the cook
01:00:55
straight and and
01:00:57
in the last like stretch died because
01:01:00
they were when hypoxic and and drown so
01:01:03
like that that sports that Sports Next
01:01:05
Level although those guys would say your
01:01:07
sports next level
01:01:09
true yeah it's all perspective isn't it
01:01:11
okay all right so um lip 95 is the
01:01:15
collapse and is that when negotiations
01:01:17
are going on with the race director and
01:01:18
your support crew that like we've got to
01:01:20
pull Sam off the course
01:01:22
yeah I mean that's definitely when
01:01:25
they're wanting wanting me to stop like
01:01:28
you're not healthy to go on and I
01:01:31
definitely had a mo a moment of I'm
01:01:33
staffed and then I was like okay if this
01:01:36
like he'd do a job
01:01:37
and I had a moment like that uh in
01:01:40
Christchurch as well like went down on
01:01:42
my knees and I'm like it might be time
01:01:44
to stop and I said no if this we had to
01:01:48
do a job like get up go and I did and uh
01:01:53
yeah negotiations were going on at that
01:01:56
point I didn't really know but basically
01:01:58
the people who were backing me are
01:01:59
saying like let them get the job done uh
01:02:02
and the race director's like this guy's
01:02:03
stuffed and I think they're my team's
01:02:06
argument was well you would be two of
01:02:09
you with this team yeah yeah
01:02:12
rightfully stuff so what's your mom like
01:02:15
us as a support person because um
01:02:18
I don't know I suppose there's that
01:02:20
mother's instinct that you know you want
01:02:22
to you want to protect your boy or
01:02:23
whatever but is she quite good at um you
01:02:26
know understanding your limitations and
01:02:27
not throwing in the towel on your behalf
01:02:29
too early yeah totally uh
01:02:34
she's
01:02:37
very organized like she
01:02:39
she's she's goddamn god tier crew crew
01:02:43
person slash crew crew head like she she
01:02:46
runs the team and she she knows exactly
01:02:49
what needs to be done in advance of of
01:02:51
when it needs to be done
01:02:54
so yeah I I guess I can like trust her
01:02:57
to just like do all that stuff in the
01:02:58
background and then I can focus on the
01:02:59
running yeah
01:03:01
but yeah like once we were that deep
01:03:03
like I guess the voice of reason kicks
01:03:06
in and and that's when she wanted me to
01:03:08
to pull I mean I've had like the
01:03:11
conversation with her since then I'm
01:03:13
like
01:03:14
any future race
01:03:16
like
01:03:18
don't talk me out of it like
01:03:20
like I race until I'm dead
01:03:22
that's it and that was the race
01:03:24
director's fear
01:03:26
that you would raise till you did okay
01:03:28
so it's a 100 101 hours if we've
01:03:31
established just reminding people and
01:03:32
677 case so the adventure winner Phil
01:03:35
Gord did he know
01:03:37
or does his team know about these
01:03:38
conversations that were going on uh
01:03:40
negotiations for a lack of a better term
01:03:42
yeah I don't know I mean like part of
01:03:44
part of part of the like race directors
01:03:46
thing was if I'm going to continue
01:03:48
looping then Phil has to stay with me
01:03:51
basically as a as a like a safety
01:03:53
precaution that way like if I Collapse
01:03:56
he can render Aid whether that's CPR or
01:03:59
whatever and so like he knew I was in a
01:04:04
bad way like I'd collapsed in front of
01:04:05
him like in that in The Farmhouse so he
01:04:07
saw how bad I was
01:04:10
but yeah then I pulled pulled it
01:04:12
together and like I was still I was
01:04:13
still lapping it lapping out 10 with 10
01:04:16
minutes of rest at the end of each one
01:04:19
so that was all that was all good and
01:04:23
yeah he I guess he knew the
01:04:24
conversations were going on and then you
01:04:25
basically once we were out doing lap 101
01:04:29
I said to him like I've made the
01:04:32
agreement with everybody back at camp
01:04:34
that this will be my last lap I was like
01:04:37
are you ready to do a hot lap
01:04:38
right because because he would have had
01:04:40
to do the 102nd to
01:04:42
to
01:04:43
essentially win
01:04:45
and he's like oh no I'm not going to do
01:04:47
a whole lap I might hurt myself which is
01:04:49
fair enough
01:04:51
um I certainly couldn't do a hot lap in
01:04:53
Christchurch the other day like I was I
01:04:55
was spent so
01:04:58
yeah he he knew that I was I was about
01:05:01
to give up to Forfeit sort of thing
01:05:04
um
01:05:04
because there's a photo here that I saw
01:05:06
online on lap uh 101 and it looks like
01:05:10
you're doing I don't know like a like an
01:05:12
airplane or a Superman or something like
01:05:13
you look happy as [ __ ] yeah I mean like
01:05:16
at the end of the day you don't look
01:05:18
like a broken man put it that way no and
01:05:20
that's probably
01:05:22
a good indication that people should
01:05:24
have stayed out of my ear and allowed me
01:05:26
to continue my race
01:05:28
I mean like it hurts who cares like let
01:05:30
me let me go to let me go to 140 let me
01:05:33
go to 150 let me really do something
01:05:35
stupid it's going to suck for those last
01:05:36
couple of days but like
01:05:39
Daddy's [ __ ]
01:05:42
what do you what yeah any idea what your
01:05:44
limitation would be do you really think
01:05:46
like what another couple of days
01:05:48
I think there's almost a level of
01:05:50
perpetuality in this provided you're
01:05:52
taking all the boxes
01:05:54
I mean eventually you may
01:05:56
Teeter on the on the brink of Madness
01:05:59
like I know that when Harvey
01:06:02
when Harvey wandered off and
01:06:04
timed out during his 91st hour like he
01:06:08
was looking at the side of the road and
01:06:09
he was seeing grass people and he's like
01:06:11
I didn't just see one grass person he's
01:06:13
like I saw all the grass people like
01:06:15
full-blown hallucinations yeah
01:06:16
full-blown hallucinations so like you
01:06:18
get to that level and and so yeah you've
01:06:20
gotta you've got to manage that and
01:06:22
hopefully not go into that loopy Zone
01:06:24
but um
01:06:25
I don't see why you can't continue this
01:06:29
for a very long time like I believe I
01:06:32
believe eventually like we're gonna
01:06:33
probably break the seven day or the
01:06:34
10-day record outright during a backyard
01:06:38
like those are those are actual
01:06:41
events that people compete in and yeah
01:06:43
in this format we may we may well go
01:06:45
that deep and then break those records
01:06:47
which is going to be wild so yeah we're
01:06:50
just kind of scratching the surface to
01:06:52
be honest
01:06:53
[ __ ] that's exciting and also terrifying
01:06:55
at the same time
01:06:56
and you you say we like uh this is going
01:06:59
to happen in your career this is that
01:07:01
you're not looking you know people talk
01:07:02
about breaking the two-hour Marathon
01:07:04
barrier and how they're like it may not
01:07:06
happen in my lifetime you're talking
01:07:07
about you being one of these contenders
01:07:09
I think I think I'll probably do an
01:07:11
October provided provided everybody's up
01:07:13
to the challenge and then if not it'll
01:07:15
be next year what's that is that the big
01:07:17
Big's backyard Big's backyard where's
01:07:19
that that's in Bell Buckle in Tennessee
01:07:21
which is like an hour down the road from
01:07:23
where I used to live right okay so it's
01:07:25
almost like a like a alternative home
01:07:27
course oh it's it's like
01:07:30
I'm so excited because it's not this
01:07:33
intangible place in America
01:07:36
that I've never heard of it's down down
01:07:38
the road from where I used to live like
01:07:39
this is this is a homecoming for me and
01:07:41
it gives me like such happening it gives
01:07:43
me such a home field advantage like I've
01:07:45
got I've got
01:07:47
like literally my American Family
01:07:49
in-laws who live a few hours
01:07:52
up up the road in a different state and
01:07:55
they're gonna they're gonna be nearby
01:07:57
I've got all my Rugby
01:07:58
crowd slash family that I've built over
01:08:02
the years since 2016. they live just
01:08:05
down the road yeah so you have a lot of
01:08:07
support on course potentially or yeah
01:08:09
faces popping in and out yeah people
01:08:11
aren't allowed out on course it's very
01:08:13
kind of privately private but like in
01:08:15
the lead up through the race like I'm
01:08:17
definitely going to have a lot of love
01:08:19
and support and like there's definitely
01:08:21
going to be a lot of people rooting for
01:08:23
me and people spectators allowed at the
01:08:25
start finish area
01:08:27
no no
01:08:29
wow
01:08:30
wow why uh so it's a terrible marketing
01:08:33
strategy yeah no I totally agree and I
01:08:37
guess Laz who has created the sport has
01:08:40
kind of created this monster that's now
01:08:42
like grown into
01:08:45
crazy
01:08:46
massive beast but uh
01:08:49
it's held on his little farm in Bell
01:08:52
Buckle Tennessee it's kind of middle of
01:08:54
nowhere type deal little farm
01:08:57
it's got a little Farmhouse and like not
01:09:01
too many amenities like they're having
01:09:02
to bring in porta potties and and and
01:09:05
all the likes of additional stuff
01:09:07
so it's like a [ __ ] really [ __ ] Festival
01:09:10
[Music]
01:09:12
it's definitely Festival Vibes no music
01:09:14
not much sleep a lot of exercise no
01:09:16
drugs yeah apart from Karen's yeah
01:09:20
Karen's and uh uh Tailwind lots of lots
01:09:24
of Tailwind a lot of caffeine a lot hell
01:09:27
of a lot of caffeine yeah
01:09:29
um and yeah I think basically that I
01:09:31
think they've got the capacity to have
01:09:33
like 200 or so people right there so
01:09:35
it's basically it's the runners it's
01:09:37
their support crew uh there's the race
01:09:41
official slash event personnel and then
01:09:44
there's like the media um slash people
01:09:46
there's people like recording movies
01:09:48
slash documentaries and that's all they
01:09:50
really have capacity for Because by the
01:09:52
time four or five days of this is up
01:09:54
like they will have really
01:09:57
tapped into their resources as far as
01:10:00
like water and like the porta potties
01:10:02
are probably going to be in a bit of a
01:10:03
state and okay so this is not the
01:10:05
infrastructure yeah there's no
01:10:07
infrastructure they have all the people
01:10:08
there so now you've you've talked um at
01:10:11
sort of reasonable length and you've
01:10:12
been quite open about this about the
01:10:14
thing you call your secret sauce so it's
01:10:15
like you're putting your cards out on
01:10:16
the table you're keeping no secrets from
01:10:19
anyone you're basically giving people
01:10:20
the blueprint which to be honest I think
01:10:22
it's a blueprint that most of it is in
01:10:24
your head so it can't be necessarily
01:10:26
duplicated but um how would you describe
01:10:29
the secret sauce like how how can how
01:10:31
can anyone do this and do well yeah I
01:10:33
mean at the end of the day you're
01:10:34
running
01:10:36
and you're running a major a manageable
01:10:38
distance you're running a very
01:10:40
manageable distance and at least early
01:10:42
on yeah at the end of the day
01:10:45
you need to eat you need to drink you
01:10:48
need to potentially sleep at some point
01:10:50
and and wear clothes or or whatever so
01:10:53
it's it's getting it's getting
01:10:56
the formula just right yeah it's it
01:10:58
might be anywhere from if you can only
01:11:00
get 20 gram of carbohydrate in per hour
01:11:02
then it's it's that but if you're
01:11:04
adapted it might be any thing through to
01:11:06
90 gram of carbohydrate per hour which
01:11:08
for most runners or human beings is
01:11:12
going to be too much and then you're
01:11:13
going to have gi discomfort so it's
01:11:15
getting in there it's uh it's getting in
01:11:17
like
01:11:18
500 ml
01:11:21
depending on the depending on the heat
01:11:23
out there but roughly 500 mL of fluids
01:11:27
each hour and then that's got to have
01:11:29
electrolytes in it so you you're putting
01:11:32
some sort of drink mix in it whether
01:11:34
it's just purely salts or if you're
01:11:36
throwing a a drink mix in there like a
01:11:39
sports drink that's got both the
01:11:41
calories in the form of uh carbohydrate
01:11:44
and then also getting your your salts in
01:11:47
and then so you've got
01:11:50
your hydration possibly nutrition and
01:11:53
that might come in the form of anything
01:11:55
really whether it's
01:11:57
yeah carbohydrates or proteins or fats
01:12:00
and uh you just eat whatever's on the
01:12:03
table Yeah Dean Kinesis he one of the um
01:12:06
sort of I suppose the original
01:12:08
mainstream like ultra marathon runner
01:12:10
you know he became famous for a it was
01:12:13
quite a kind of shtick I guess but in
01:12:14
this book he talked about like ordering
01:12:16
pizzas on the run and just rolling up a
01:12:18
pizza and eating it like a burrito yeah
01:12:19
straight up so I mean any anything
01:12:23
anything that works in the moment
01:12:25
realistically I mean like I eat a lot of
01:12:27
candy out there chocolate and
01:12:30
lollies and stuff like that but yeah
01:12:32
then I'm eating a lot of real food too
01:12:34
and that might be mum's made of beef [ __ ]
01:12:36
pie or um we we get Chinese like they'll
01:12:40
go to the nearest Chinese Takeaway and
01:12:42
I'll be in like
01:12:43
stir-fry noodles or stir-fried rice and
01:12:46
and just getting getting stuff that's
01:12:47
tasty because
01:12:49
you'll be going with a fork wouldn't you
01:12:51
rather than Chopper sticks because you
01:12:52
gotta limited eating time maybe maybe
01:12:55
I'll try it with chopsticks next time
01:12:56
just just to be fancy but yeah
01:13:00
essentially just your your palate
01:13:03
uh fatigues after a while and so you
01:13:06
don't want to eat the same [ __ ] over and
01:13:09
over again you don't want to drink the
01:13:11
same flavor drink over and over again
01:13:13
and and so it's just getting in whatever
01:13:16
tastes good and whatever has the right
01:13:19
kind of macronutrients that are going to
01:13:21
fuel you basically to keep you happy I
01:13:24
mean yeah just just keeping your fuel
01:13:26
fueled throughout I mean I think even
01:13:28
Phil Gore was having like a roast dinner
01:13:30
at one point during the race in
01:13:32
Australia so yeah it's just
01:13:34
it's what you can eat at the time it's
01:13:37
not overeating because if you if you get
01:13:39
too much in then you're going to cause
01:13:40
GI distress but uh yeah whatever works
01:13:44
in the moment have you just found all
01:13:45
these sweet spots through trial and
01:13:47
error definitely yeah yeah I mean I've
01:13:49
been doing it long enough that I know
01:13:50
what works I know what doesn't work for
01:13:52
me and then sometimes I'll be presented
01:13:55
with something new in the moment that
01:13:57
I've never thought of before and and
01:13:59
like I'll wolf it down and uh
01:14:02
and and all of a sudden it's like oh
01:14:04
we'll add that to the where that to the
01:14:07
pile and then like I might do another
01:14:08
race and I'll be presented with that
01:14:10
that third option I'll just be like Nat
01:14:14
don't want it and how did your um
01:14:17
relationship and association with
01:14:19
currents come about oh I'm on the
01:14:21
Karen's bus as well yeah
01:14:22
um I I I I sort of think most
01:14:25
supplements are um Placebo for me at
01:14:27
least but um I find with Karen's it's
01:14:29
there is a tangible difference in terms
01:14:31
of recovery yeah definitely so did you
01:14:33
were you a fan of them or did they
01:14:35
approach you and say Hey try this and
01:14:37
yeah yeah I guess I'd been told about
01:14:39
them they'd been told about me they they
01:14:41
knew how I who I was and what I was
01:14:43
doing within the sport and
01:14:45
I I ran into them at tarawera and
01:14:47
basically said hey I'm here I'm doing
01:14:51
weird running stuff maybe maybe we could
01:14:53
team up and yeah like I knew the I knew
01:14:57
the benefits of of black currants and
01:14:59
and anthocyanins
01:15:01
um I had I'd known about them for for
01:15:03
quite a number of years
01:15:04
so yeah uh basically I've been using
01:15:07
them since tarawera in February I think
01:15:12
and yeah they've been yeah pretty pretty
01:15:16
pretty Central in in my
01:15:19
in my recovery right interesting so
01:15:21
before getting on to what you're saying
01:15:23
Sam Harvey is before Karen's your Beast
01:15:26
was 46 hours after currents your best
01:15:28
was 101 hours yeah you could put it like
01:15:30
that
01:15:32
how do you take them because I just take
01:15:34
two a day like usually in the morning
01:15:37
when I do have a protein shake and stuff
01:15:39
do you do you take um like extra
01:15:41
currants when you're during an event or
01:15:43
I usually try and take them on their own
01:15:45
yes I don't take them with like a
01:15:47
protein shake or anything like I spaced
01:15:49
them out away from away from meals so
01:15:52
it's literally the only thing in my
01:15:53
stomach so
01:15:55
yeah hopefully I absorb more of of the
01:15:58
good stuff I'm taking it with water
01:16:01
if I'm if it's on a training day then
01:16:03
I'm trying to take it like half an hour
01:16:05
to to an hour or more before training so
01:16:08
I'm getting the benefits in
01:16:10
in the Run
01:16:12
and yeah and then if not I'll just take
01:16:16
it every day whenever I'm only taking
01:16:18
one capsule because I I'm a smaller dude
01:16:21
than you uh so I maybe don't need as
01:16:23
much I feel like you deserve that second
01:16:25
one yeah smaller dude but you're doing
01:16:26
some crazy miles yeah so more recently
01:16:29
like even just on like my off days to
01:16:32
try and recover I've been taking a
01:16:33
couple a day and and then during these
01:16:36
last man standing races I'm just kind of
01:16:38
taking them ad-lib like there's a lot of
01:16:40
stuff that I do ad-lib so they did
01:16:42
they're definitely part of your toolbox
01:16:44
though during the events yeah absolutely
01:16:45
like maybe maybe they're yeah helping me
01:16:49
with fat oxidizations I'm using that as
01:16:52
a
01:16:52
as as an energy source more or whatever
01:16:55
it may be
01:16:57
um I mean I don't believe that there's
01:16:58
any one Silver Bullet I'm very much
01:17:01
having someone who has a toolkit of a
01:17:04
whole heap of different things that
01:17:05
point me in the right direction and this
01:17:06
is this is one of my key things that
01:17:08
helps me helps me know that I'm I'm
01:17:10
going to get where I'm going so I have
01:17:13
that to rely on yeah I'm in a great New
01:17:15
Zealand company they've got some great
01:17:16
athletes on their books as well yeah
01:17:18
Keepers yeah stacked best of the best
01:17:21
absolutely
01:17:23
um
01:17:23
so what are some of the non-negotiables
01:17:25
in this toolkit that you talk about the
01:17:27
absolute non-negotiable so if you make
01:17:29
it to the stat line and you open the
01:17:30
toolbox and some of these things aren't
01:17:31
there what's gonna what's gonna rattle
01:17:33
you yeah for sure so I mean I go and
01:17:38
I guess I've got I guess I got a bit of
01:17:41
a suitcase now but it's uh
01:17:44
yes like it's it's all the all the
01:17:47
different rubs for my legs it's multiple
01:17:49
pairs of shoes it's multiple pairs of of
01:17:52
thick running socks uh compression
01:17:55
leggings compression calf skins multiple
01:17:58
Piers of running shorts multiple pairs
01:18:01
of
01:18:02
uh non-chafing underwear uh and then
01:18:06
I've got chafe cream on on top of that
01:18:08
which I'm like applying liberally
01:18:09
throughout the race multiple changes of
01:18:12
tops multiple changes of uh thermal
01:18:15
layers multiple changes of windproof
01:18:17
layers
01:18:18
beanies
01:18:21
caps sunnies
01:18:24
headlight a spearhead light
01:18:27
another spear light
01:18:31
multiple changes of batteries for
01:18:33
throughout the night
01:18:34
because basically I don't want to get
01:18:36
caught out on course my headlight die
01:18:38
and then all of a sudden game over
01:18:41
you're stuck in the dark
01:18:46
Bluetooth headphones fully charged cell
01:18:49
phone uh multiple power Banks
01:18:53
antacids
01:18:57
uh what else have I got oh my God it's a
01:19:01
lot have you got like a typed out
01:19:02
checklist
01:19:04
um or no I mean you you're rattling this
01:19:06
off from memory which is remarkable yeah
01:19:08
like I know what I need in the moment
01:19:09
I've I guess I've probably like at any
01:19:12
one point in time I've got like a couple
01:19:13
of boxes worth of stuff at home and
01:19:15
there's a lot of stuff that
01:19:17
depending on the season maybe I don't
01:19:19
need to use that stuff outside of a race
01:19:21
I mean like
01:19:22
who needs to use like
01:19:24
12 different sets of thermals so like
01:19:27
yeah a lot of that stuff just gets boxed
01:19:29
up and it only gets pulled out when we
01:19:31
come around to race race day and then I
01:19:33
can just kind of yeah have a small draw
01:19:36
of of my daily daily wears and then yeah
01:19:38
multiple pairs of shoes uh
01:19:43
and for the races in New Zealand then
01:19:45
I've basically I've got my own my own
01:19:47
race set up so I've got a trestle table
01:19:49
I've got Camp stretcher slash uh like a
01:19:54
pivoting uh camp chair
01:19:58
gazebo with with sides hotties
01:20:03
all the cooking utensils does your wife
01:20:05
know about the hotties
01:20:07
oh I like hot water bottles
01:20:09
I see what you did there
01:20:12
I'm so lame so lame it was a lot of
01:20:15
hanging fruit I should let it go to the
01:20:16
floor
01:20:17
um you mentioned before Bluetooth
01:20:18
headphones
01:20:19
um David Goggins would say you're a
01:20:21
[ __ ] I I say David Goggins is a [ __ ]
01:20:24
on a daily basis What's um yeah you've
01:20:26
been calling him out it's um what's that
01:20:28
just just fun fun sport banter yeah he
01:20:31
must get called out by
01:20:33
100 people every day I think he I think
01:20:36
he does uh yeah it's been a bit of play
01:20:38
Slash banter like
01:20:40
and yeah there's a lot of people that
01:20:43
seem to like it but it's fun that I call
01:20:46
out David Goggins and that I'm maybe in
01:20:48
the like the the small
01:20:50
segment of the population that can do
01:20:52
that and actually like come and back it
01:20:55
up yeah uh
01:20:57
he hasn't been yeah maybe you will one
01:20:58
day uh I feel like we're is that the
01:21:01
goal to get him to buy it or to repost
01:21:04
or I'd love to race with him yeah man I
01:21:07
mean like at the end of the day I want
01:21:08
to be pushed to the upper limits of of
01:21:10
what I can achieve and I think he's
01:21:12
someone who also appreciates that and so
01:21:15
yeah what one day we'll we'll throw the
01:21:16
hammer down with each other and whether
01:21:19
that's
01:21:20
he bites and he comes to one of these
01:21:22
races one day or uh eventually I get my
01:21:25
green card so I can move back to the US
01:21:27
with my wife and I'm just going to hunt
01:21:28
him down
01:21:29
I'm just going to hunt him down I'm
01:21:30
going to find out what his racing
01:21:31
calendar is and I'm just gonna start
01:21:32
popping up at all these events that he's
01:21:34
at no he does those videos of Instagram
01:21:36
where he's running along and someone's
01:21:37
on a bike filming him I reckon you could
01:21:39
almost work out what street it's on
01:21:41
because it looks like it's the same
01:21:42
street yeah easily
01:21:46
um yeah I feel like there's probably a
01:21:48
lot of parallels with with you and him
01:21:49
how how do you silence that that inner
01:21:52
voice you know when that inner voice
01:21:54
gets really loud and I don't know maybe
01:21:56
this maybe I'm predicting you maybe it's
01:21:58
just me but you're like okay well you've
01:22:00
done your best and you know no one would
01:22:02
blame you for quitting now like when
01:22:04
when those voices come in and they
01:22:06
become louder and louder I
01:22:09
feel like I haven't had that voice in a
01:22:12
number of years I've like kind of
01:22:14
silenced my own doubt I'm like I just
01:22:16
have the belief and I'm just like I'm
01:22:18
here to I'm here to smash stuff and and
01:22:20
that's why the last maybe a couple of
01:22:21
years at least in the backyard Ultra
01:22:23
format I've been
01:22:26
laying the hammer down and
01:22:28
kind of dominating the races like I I
01:22:31
haven't had a sense of Doubt throughout
01:22:34
it I'm just like I'm here I'm doing a
01:22:36
job and then eventually everybody gives
01:22:37
up and it's like haha one whereas
01:22:40
this weekend gone uh the race I did a
01:22:43
few days ago
01:22:45
I got a bit cocky
01:22:47
once I was enjoying myself I was like Oh
01:22:49
my legs have healed after that world
01:22:50
record cool let's let's go and so
01:22:53
for the first 24 hours I was running my
01:22:55
Loops probably five minutes faster than
01:22:57
I should and like you wanna
01:23:00
you want to
01:23:02
conserve because you like not only do
01:23:05
you want to not use up all your energy
01:23:07
but you don't want to smash your system
01:23:08
and have everything break down on you
01:23:10
and so I got a bit too cocky in the
01:23:12
first day down in Christchurch I got to
01:23:15
the 24-hour Mark which is 160 kilometers
01:23:18
or 100 miles and then I was like oh
01:23:21
I'm tired you're way more tired than
01:23:23
what you should be at that point I was
01:23:24
like oh I'm I'm I'm sore
01:23:27
right
01:23:29
and then I then I come to the sudden
01:23:31
realization is like you cooked it bro
01:23:33
you stuffed this yeah yeah you [ __ ] up
01:23:36
yeah and you got high on your own Supply
01:23:38
I was like damn brother like you you had
01:23:42
the opportunity to do something World
01:23:44
Class by by backing up this race or that
01:23:47
race with this one
01:23:48
and you stuffed it it's like
01:23:51
and so I go into this
01:23:54
down
01:23:55
negative and I don't usually like I'd
01:23:58
never go into that and I've never I
01:24:00
don't think I've ever been in that
01:24:01
headspace for that period of time like
01:24:03
it was all of Sunday and I was just like
01:24:05
you [ __ ] up you deserve this you cocky
01:24:09
Arrogant Bastard
01:24:11
and I was like
01:24:13
oh well there's some really good leads
01:24:16
in this race
01:24:17
like clean Sutton Shannon Rhodes uh
01:24:21
Brandon Purdue all guys that have been
01:24:23
hitting this hitting this race type
01:24:25
before and and know what they're doing
01:24:27
it's like they deserve this because they
01:24:30
they played the slogan they played the
01:24:31
long game and I was like you bust and I
01:24:34
I went into negative talk I was I was
01:24:36
out there on course and I was just
01:24:37
shouting at myself and it wasn't
01:24:39
intentional David Goggins type ship it
01:24:41
was like it was David Goggins actually
01:24:43
you [ __ ]
01:24:47
three things that you're getting right
01:24:49
now and and you know this out loud or is
01:24:51
this internal really loud ugly loud and
01:24:54
to the point where like I came into the
01:24:56
gazebo
01:24:57
and like there's friends slash family
01:24:59
slash crew in there and I'm like
01:25:02
I'm not taking notice of anyone else I'm
01:25:04
talking to myself
01:25:06
just absolutely like
01:25:09
like grunting and swearing at myself and
01:25:11
just and and my mom was like oh this is
01:25:13
ugly like there's certain people that at
01:25:15
this point mum's not like letting in the
01:25:16
tent because I'm like I'm going downhill
01:25:19
and then I get out there and
01:25:21
laughing and I was like you know what
01:25:23
you deserve this
01:25:25
you deserve this because you stuffed up
01:25:27
but you know what
01:25:28
you were able to finish that last Loop
01:25:30
and you're out here on this Loop so
01:25:32
you're going to finish the slope and I'm
01:25:33
going to keep you out here and I'm going
01:25:35
to keep you suffering and I'm just going
01:25:36
to whip you
01:25:38
all day long and you're going to suffer
01:25:40
and you're going to learn the lesson of
01:25:42
not being too cocky in the early stages
01:25:45
of the race so that way it's an
01:25:47
ingrained in you for future for future
01:25:49
experiences so I just went out there and
01:25:51
I just
01:25:52
beat the [ __ ] out of my soul for all of
01:25:55
Sunday
01:25:56
I was like if you can start a lap you
01:25:58
can finish a lap if you can finish that
01:26:00
that you can start that next lap and I
01:26:02
just kept on just heading myself hitting
01:26:04
myself hitting myself and it was like
01:26:07
yeah I'd sometime on the Sunday I like I
01:26:10
was like
01:26:11
I went out to start my next Loop and
01:26:13
they're like okay be strong and I like
01:26:15
go to be strong
01:26:16
puff my chest up and walk up to the line
01:26:19
and my legs go out from under me I look
01:26:21
like I've been on the person I've
01:26:23
stagger out there and I go to like puff
01:26:25
my chest out and I'm cross-eyed and I'm
01:26:27
like oh [ __ ] and I was like oh no and I
01:26:32
and the boys take off and I take off as
01:26:35
well very slow and I get about 10 10
01:26:37
meters and I just go down on my hands
01:26:39
and knees and I
01:26:41
okay
01:26:42
it might be time to go give up and go
01:26:45
home
01:26:45
and I'm down there on my knees for I
01:26:48
don't know 30 seconds a minute it feels
01:26:51
I was like well
01:26:53
you you chose to stop right now like you
01:26:56
didn't collapse
01:26:57
you're not dying it hurts it sucks
01:27:01
who gives a [ __ ]
01:27:03
meanwhile everybody's gone silent
01:27:05
because like I'm right there everybody's
01:27:07
around me they can see that I'm not good
01:27:12
and then I get up
01:27:14
and I charge off and everybody starts
01:27:16
cheering they're like Ah hell yeah let's
01:27:18
go and the boys are like a couple
01:27:21
hundred meters ahead of me at this point
01:27:22
I charge past them off into the forest
01:27:24
and I'm gone and I I didn't do one of my
01:27:27
fastest Loops I've done in hours at that
01:27:28
point
01:27:29
and I'm back in the race so basically
01:27:31
said let's get the job done yeah reset
01:27:34
yeah you I I mean with this type of
01:27:38
racing there are there are so many
01:27:39
parallels between what you do in actual
01:27:42
life you know there's um there's there's
01:27:44
good patches and bad patches dark
01:27:45
patches and light patches so there's a
01:27:47
lot of parallel so it must be um
01:27:50
you must have learned a lot about your
01:27:52
mental health and resilience and things
01:27:54
oh absolutely that are transferable into
01:27:56
day-to-day life yeah I think I
01:28:00
I think I wind my mum up a bit because
01:28:03
I'm very stoic with with a lot of things
01:28:07
in life now like nothing's really a
01:28:10
problem anymore
01:28:11
and you haven't always been that way
01:28:14
um
01:28:15
I guess I have but now I'm very like a
01:28:18
very philosophical about everything and
01:28:19
like
01:28:20
I know we'll be driving around in the
01:28:22
car and Mum will say something and then
01:28:24
I'll
01:28:25
like
01:28:27
do some cliche quote or something she's
01:28:29
like okay send me all the wise like
01:28:32
shut the [ __ ] out
01:28:36
how's your mental health been I know you
01:28:38
um you did this run in Australia felt I
01:28:40
am hope
01:28:41
um Mike King's charity and your race a
01:28:43
[ __ ] time as well
01:28:44
um why is that charity important to you
01:28:46
yeah uh so like I like many others
01:28:51
run for my own mental health I mean I
01:28:53
run because I love the sport now but
01:28:55
like I
01:28:57
yeah you'd appreciate what it what it
01:28:59
does for your own mentality from the
01:29:02
neck up but it seems alarming that it's
01:29:03
only been sort of I don't know like
01:29:04
recent years as in the last 10 15 20
01:29:07
years that people have been made aware
01:29:09
of the the mental health benefits and
01:29:10
they come from not just running I
01:29:12
suppose but other forms of exercise as
01:29:13
well because until I don't know like
01:29:15
sort of recent history it was like
01:29:17
cardiovascular and that was sort of a
01:29:19
yeah
01:29:20
um so I guess I I discovered that
01:29:24
myself and yeah like I've had my
01:29:26
struggles as a teenager slash a young
01:29:30
guy in my 20s when I was in university
01:29:31
or in in later years or whatever and
01:29:35
yeah I guess I've
01:29:37
found the benefits myself and it's
01:29:40
helped me to pull myself up out of the
01:29:42
darkness and
01:29:43
yeah now
01:29:45
now that I am kind of coming into my own
01:29:48
and kind of kicking life's ass I want
01:29:51
others to
01:29:52
to be able to
01:29:55
I guess
01:29:56
get some of that light from from what
01:29:59
what I can shine and uh
01:30:02
for the probably the last couple years
01:30:03
I've been thinking about starting my own
01:30:05
mental health charity to to help others
01:30:07
out through through my own exploits
01:30:10
and then I kind of figured like leading
01:30:13
into dead cow
01:30:14
as I reinvent the wheel like why not
01:30:17
just partner up with someone who's
01:30:18
already got something Kick-Ass going and
01:30:20
and Mike King has created I am hope and
01:30:22
like that's the like the industry
01:30:25
standard or the industry leader in the
01:30:27
mental health space in New Zealand so I
01:30:29
figured like if I can partner up with
01:30:30
him and raise some dollars and and it
01:30:32
can go into into somewhere important
01:30:35
where it matters then yeah yeah
01:30:37
brilliant he's he's a good man a real
01:30:40
battler oh yeah real beta doesn't mind
01:30:42
rolling his sleeves up and you know
01:30:43
mucking and getting his hands dirty
01:30:45
exactly love that about him
01:30:47
um I saw you do an interview on
01:30:49
breakfast TV and they they ended the
01:30:51
interview by talking about the world
01:30:52
Champs in October and you just seem
01:30:55
supremely confident of winning
01:30:57
um which I I fully respect I think it's
01:31:01
[ __ ] amazing but it is also very un
01:31:04
kiwi like the Kiwi way I think
01:31:07
traditionally at least now I think this
01:31:09
needs to be sort of redefined is someone
01:31:11
like Richie McCaw saying oh yeah no
01:31:13
we're going to go over there and yeah do
01:31:14
our best and see what happens that's the
01:31:15
Kiwi way the Kiwi way is not eyeballing
01:31:18
someone and say I'm gonna go there and
01:31:19
I'm gonna [ __ ] smash the world record
01:31:20
and I'm going to win it and I'm going to
01:31:21
win it in style
01:31:23
um you know where does where does that
01:31:25
come from in all fairness I'm sick of
01:31:27
the Kiwi way to if if that's how it's
01:31:29
going to be if it's going to be kind of
01:31:30
hiding in the shadows and and doing and
01:31:33
doing what you're told like I agree like
01:31:36
I've I'm know
01:31:39
I've been bullied my whole life and like
01:31:42
primary school and high school and
01:31:44
like
01:31:46
made to feel less than I am and and then
01:31:49
even in the like professional workspace
01:31:51
like
01:31:52
been a pretty high achiever and it's
01:31:54
definitely got me into trouble a couple
01:31:56
times
01:31:57
just jealousy from people that aren't
01:31:59
doing as well or yeah and just like
01:32:04
FYI know how to get something done I'll
01:32:06
get it done and
01:32:10
maybe it's not Kosher maybe it's not the
01:32:13
the written manual instructions version
01:32:15
of how you get something done but I get
01:32:17
[ __ ] done and I get it done well and
01:32:19
yeah if someone's very process driven
01:32:21
and it's like you've got to tick this
01:32:23
box in this box in this box yeah maybe
01:32:25
it maybe it Ruffles a few feathers uh
01:32:28
yeah
01:32:29
I think it's just not the Kiwi way to
01:32:30
sort of vocalize it and one thing I
01:32:31
found doing this podcast for like the
01:32:33
last I don't know almost a year and a
01:32:34
half now there's been um
01:32:36
actually quite a few people that have
01:32:38
messaged me like wanting to come on the
01:32:40
podcast and the first time it happened I
01:32:41
was like um I was like [ __ ] that's a bit
01:32:44
or you know rate yourself a little bit
01:32:45
arrogant and the more it happens I
01:32:47
realize I'm the problem here not them
01:32:50
and the last time this happened was a
01:32:52
couple of weeks ago with a guy called um
01:32:53
Marcus Daniel who's uh one of New
01:32:55
Zealand space tennis players one one of
01:32:56
bronze at the last Olympic Games
01:32:59
oh I [ __ ] respect it now because it's
01:33:01
it's the Kiwi way just to sit back and
01:33:03
go oh no someone will ask me if they
01:33:04
want me but you've got to put yourself
01:33:06
[ __ ] forward and I think it's a
01:33:08
hangover from like call it what you want
01:33:10
tall puppy syndrome crabs in a bucket
01:33:12
whatever but it's like I I fully respect
01:33:14
that bro no I I think New Zealand is
01:33:16
terrible for tall poppy syndrome yeah
01:33:18
and where that stems from is a famine
01:33:22
mentality like we are a tiny little
01:33:24
island in the middle of the Pacific
01:33:26
Ocean we're far from everything there's
01:33:28
not a hell of a lot of dollars in our
01:33:29
economy and yeah traditionally there
01:33:32
hasn't been much and so in a feminine
01:33:34
mentality for you to have more that
01:33:37
automatically means that I've got to
01:33:38
have less and so tall poppy syndrome is
01:33:42
basically people seeing someone who is
01:33:45
achieving more and then and then trying
01:33:47
to drag them down back back to the level
01:33:49
because it's like [ __ ] [ __ ] you for
01:33:51
doing well because it because it's wrong
01:33:53
in me and and that's the mentality that
01:33:55
we need to get out of New Zealand it's
01:33:57
like absolutely not like if you're
01:33:59
succeeding great because that means I
01:34:01
can succeed too and so that's that's
01:34:03
essentially where we need to get to so
01:34:06
um well good on you yeah please don't
01:34:09
change that I don't think you will but
01:34:11
yeah just don't
01:34:12
don't get scarred or burnt or fatigued
01:34:14
by people I'm I'm past giving a [ __ ]
01:34:16
what people think
01:34:19
[ __ ] I love that how good do you think
01:34:21
part of that comes from the time you
01:34:23
spent in America
01:34:24
you know Americans are very very good at
01:34:26
selling themselves and pulling you know
01:34:28
you know what I mean or the American way
01:34:30
than our way yeah I mean like in part
01:34:33
yes I mean there's probably no one
01:34:35
single answer to that question what I
01:34:37
would say is like I moved to America in
01:34:41
2016 and and essentially I burnt the
01:34:43
boats I I quit my job and it was like a
01:34:46
pretty pretty solid career pathway like
01:34:48
I've got a background in agriculture and
01:34:50
I've got like an undergrad and a
01:34:51
post-grad degree there I was
01:34:53
in this agricultural role
01:34:57
with a with a good defined line and I
01:34:59
was bored of it and I was like [ __ ] [ __ ]
01:35:01
this
01:35:02
so I canvas the US
01:35:05
through Facebook found different rugby
01:35:07
clubs and teams and universities and I
01:35:09
basically sold myself as this hot shot
01:35:11
America kiwi rugby player that could
01:35:13
that could that could teach them teach
01:35:16
them yeah the New Zealand ways and I was
01:35:18
playing some pretty damn good foot
01:35:19
senior footy at that time and
01:35:22
yeah found a club
01:35:24
quit my job
01:35:27
bought a plane ticket over to the US and
01:35:29
yeah basically Built My Own Niche so
01:35:31
like 2016 is a very important year for
01:35:34
me it's it's the year that I I backed
01:35:37
myself I don't really care about like
01:35:40
the standard life or what was expected
01:35:43
of me here in New Zealand and I just got
01:35:45
after it and
01:35:47
backing myself and not caring what other
01:35:50
people thought was pretty pivotal and
01:35:52
basically everything that's come after
01:35:53
that it's like like
01:35:55
you you've got that magic bro so just
01:35:58
just run with it like if you feel
01:36:01
something's on
01:36:02
just do it because it probably is and
01:36:04
that's what's led me to being where I am
01:36:06
now I love it that's probably a good way
01:36:08
to end it oh no there was one more thing
01:36:10
I wanted to bring up with you um sorry
01:36:12
we've gone on for way longer than what I
01:36:14
thought
01:36:15
um it's almost you could you could have
01:36:17
done two laps in this time or three
01:36:20
um you've recently um quit your job like
01:36:22
you're managing to make a living out of
01:36:24
what you love now which is
01:36:26
congratulations yeah so what was your
01:36:29
job so I was uh I was Raising capital
01:36:32
for uh for a property developer okay
01:36:35
here in Auckland it's boring it's boring
01:36:37
sucky and like I don't know just like
01:36:39
people just ah bad energy man like I've
01:36:42
been putting up with it for like like a
01:36:45
year I've been putting up with [ __ ]
01:36:47
[ __ ] and like there's this ethos or way
01:36:52
of thinking that I've been kind of
01:36:53
playing on for the last couple months
01:36:55
yeah last few months and it's like
01:36:58
be about your thing
01:37:00
like like put all your energy into that
01:37:03
thing that lights you on fire and and
01:37:06
make that your life because you can do
01:37:08
that and you don't have to fit into
01:37:09
someone else's Square shaped box and
01:37:15
I mean at the end of the day
01:37:17
this world's big enough that if you
01:37:21
if you work hard enough at any one
01:37:23
single thing
01:37:24
you'll get really good at it
01:37:26
and someone's probably gonna pay you for
01:37:28
it so why waste time doing some other
01:37:31
[ __ ] so yeah I
01:37:35
quit my job like six weeks ago and I
01:37:38
could not be more happy it just allowed
01:37:40
me to kind of put my head down and like
01:37:41
focus on
01:37:43
focus on getting get my head straight
01:37:45
get my body ready for um for the world
01:37:47
record attempt
01:37:50
and uh
01:37:52
and then obviously the the race after
01:37:54
that and then the race after that like I
01:37:56
finished the race and I've had it I've
01:37:58
had a phone call my team's had a phone
01:37:59
call basically saying like there's
01:38:02
someone that believes in you who's been
01:38:04
following you for a while and they want
01:38:05
to
01:38:09
they want to support you to
01:38:12
chase your dreams and who is that so not
01:38:15
a not a brand or a company not uh yeah
01:38:17
like a company slash a family you want
01:38:20
to play do you wanna do they want to
01:38:21
plug I suppose what I'm asking is um uh
01:38:23
I mean anyone that does anything like
01:38:25
this it's really [ __ ] cool because it
01:38:26
allows you to focus on your training and
01:38:28
you know give up your nine to five
01:38:30
um I mean if they want privacy or they
01:38:31
don't want to mention that's fine as
01:38:32
well but if if it's a brand or a company
01:38:34
that needs exposure then yeah definitely
01:38:36
I mean so I'm yet to kind of sign the
01:38:39
contract but but all the kind of the
01:38:40
parameters there have been put forward
01:38:43
to me and it's it's pretty pretty damn
01:38:45
agreeable to the point where I basically
01:38:47
said to my wife on Wednesday I was like
01:38:49
go on going to work today and quit your
01:38:51
job like we're moving home to
01:38:53
Christchurch I'm going to run and
01:38:56
like
01:38:57
life life's about to just pop off
01:38:59
amazing so so you get a salary and they
01:39:02
just pay for your expenses flights
01:39:04
entries yeah and then I've got like I've
01:39:06
got other sponsors who are also
01:39:08
supporting me at the moment so if I can
01:39:10
if I can basically tick off one more uh
01:39:13
sponsor to kind of fill the void then I
01:39:15
am I'm a One-Stop shop for the next few
01:39:17
years on on the running front which
01:39:19
allows me to
01:39:21
be the best runner I can be which
01:39:23
possibly then and my Niche becomes the
01:39:25
best runner in the world
01:39:28
I get to focus on
01:39:30
coaching and mentoring all the people
01:39:32
around me and and all of these uh public
01:39:35
speaking gigs that have now presented
01:39:36
themselves to me and basically just
01:39:38
shining my light on on anyone who who
01:39:41
will Who will look and see it and just
01:39:44
doing some amazing [ __ ] in the world
01:39:46
which I'm just like I'm
01:39:49
I'm beaming about man yeah man I I can't
01:39:52
wait to see what the next I don't know
01:39:53
five years ten years
01:39:55
um brings for you yeah you could be a
01:39:57
guy that transcends the sport and sort
01:39:59
of brings it into the mainstream yeah
01:40:00
well I think that's the beauty of uh of
01:40:03
the backyard is like you are if you if
01:40:05
you do get to go deep
01:40:07
if you do get to push actually push
01:40:09
yourself you are transcending yourself
01:40:11
each time and that's amazing it's not
01:40:14
it's not comfortable in the moment
01:40:16
but what it does to your mind like you
01:40:19
find that the other side of the darkness
01:40:21
it's it's amazing and yeah if I can
01:40:25
be at the Forefront of bringing bringing
01:40:27
the sport into
01:40:29
not such a niche area but being being
01:40:32
very mainstream and yeah that's that's
01:40:34
pretty wild and it's a bit of a gift
01:40:36
well I'm pleased I got you on my podcast
01:40:38
before you're too big
01:40:40
um you'll be doing like Rich Roll and
01:40:41
Rogan before you know it yeah that'd be
01:40:43
pretty pretty close yeah how good all
01:40:46
right hey Sam Harvey uh congratulations
01:40:48
on everything and uh so when's the next
01:40:50
one world Champs October yeah October
01:40:53
and Tennessee so I've told everybody
01:40:54
that I'll uh actually take a little bit
01:40:56
of time off after after this last race
01:40:58
and recover and stuff but yeah nothing
01:41:00
nothing on the schedule until the 21st
01:41:03
of October which is a world championship
01:41:04
I'll probably put a race or two just
01:41:06
like a little short 50k or something in
01:41:08
in between then just to like keep me
01:41:10
happy yeah but yeah like just just
01:41:12
recover
01:41:14
Train move back to Christchurch get
01:41:17
everything sorted and then you head on
01:41:19
over the us and we're gonna do like a
01:41:20
month in the US instead of just doing
01:41:21
like a little piddly holiday like we're
01:41:23
gonna do a
01:41:25
a whole month in the U.S and then like a
01:41:27
good lead into into the race and then
01:41:29
just absolutely Lop that thing's head
01:41:31
head off okay so just so we can um like
01:41:34
time stamp this interview so this is a
01:41:36
Friday July 7 July to August August so
01:41:39
it's three months away how many hours
01:41:40
you reckon you're definitely going to
01:41:42
win it doesn't matter how many hours
01:41:44
I think 150 at least hours
01:41:48
over over a thousand kilometers so six
01:41:50
days yeah and what over what over a
01:41:53
thousand over a thousand kilometers
01:41:56
of essentially non-stop running or never
01:41:58
resting for more than like 10 or 15
01:42:00
minutes
01:42:02
does it make you feel nervous saying
01:42:03
that out loud
01:42:05
excites the hell out of me bro like
01:42:08
we're
01:42:09
we're at the Forefront of like
01:42:12
human evolution in this like nobody
01:42:14
nobody's ever done this before we get to
01:42:17
be the first and then all of a sudden
01:42:19
this is the next expanse of human
01:42:22
perception like like nobody thought
01:42:24
anyone could break the four minute mile
01:42:26
and then Roger Bannister yeah smash the
01:42:28
four minute well and now everyone's
01:42:30
doing it and now tens of thousands of
01:42:31
people have done it so
01:42:33
like the same as climbing Everest
01:42:35
Hillary did it and now there's now
01:42:37
there's rubbish up there exactly so yeah
01:42:41
this is this is it's pretty cool to be
01:42:42
at the Forefront
01:42:43
that's a bit of a gift and if you die in
01:42:46
one of these events where people say
01:42:47
that he died doing what he loved yeah
01:42:48
find the thing you love and let it kill
01:42:50
you
01:42:52
unreal Sam Harvey thank you so much for
01:42:54
coming on the podcast man and good luck
01:42:55
for everything in the future cheer
01:42:57
brother it's been a pleasure
01:42:59
hey
01:42:59
[Music]
01:43:02
this is
01:43:05
fast paced slow and steady anyway you
01:43:08
coming just wanna connect for everyone
01:43:10
who loves running this is
01:43:15
[Music]
01:43:18
fast paced slow and steady anyway you
01:43:21
coming just wanna connect for everyone
01:43:23
who loves running hey Runners only with
01:43:26
dom Harvey
01:43:28
[Music]