00:00:00
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00:00:06
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00:00:12
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00:00:16
Hey Finn, how's the performance going?
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>> Top tier.
00:00:18
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00:00:21
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00:00:36
>> Mark Rocket, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:38
>> Great to be here, Dom.
00:00:39
>> So, your wife and kids, what's what's
00:00:41
their surname on like on the passports
00:00:42
and birth certificates?
00:00:43
>> Yeah, I've got a couple of little
00:00:45
Rockets and
00:00:48
uh and my wife is just going through the
00:00:49
process of changing changing her name at
00:00:51
the moment. So,
00:00:52
>> Right. Yeah.
00:00:52
>> What What was the reaction like at the
00:00:54
time? Did people think you were odd?
00:00:56
>> Yeah. Well, I guess you know going back
00:00:58
to those days, the internet days, uh,
00:01:00
you know, I started in the internet
00:01:02
industry in 1994 and then started
00:01:04
playing around with SEO, search engine
00:01:06
optimization 97, started up a company in
00:01:08
1998, actually a couple of companies and
00:01:11
just got into the whole kind of online
00:01:13
marketing kind of thing and uh, yeah,
00:01:16
realized, you know, words are just uh,
00:01:18
so compelling, so provocative and uh,
00:01:21
yeah, just sort of started out as a
00:01:23
crazy idea think, you know, what if I
00:01:25
changed my name to Mark Rocket? in what
00:01:28
that would end up being and what what
00:01:30
what that would affect in my life and it
00:01:32
just was one of those ideas that I
00:01:33
couldn't let go and I decided just to
00:01:35
jump in and do it.
00:01:37
>> Were you the subject of sort of any
00:01:39
ridicule or anything at the time or
00:01:42
>> uh well probably but
00:01:44
>> don't have a pretty much.
00:01:46
>> What about your family? Like your
00:01:48
parents?
00:01:49
>> Yeah. Um it was sort of a delicate
00:01:50
thing. I didn't really tell them
00:01:51
straight out for a little while.
00:01:54
Now, then the reason you chose rocket is
00:01:57
>> Yeah. I mean, ever since I've been a
00:01:59
young kid, I've been fascinated by space
00:02:01
technology, advanced aviation or just
00:02:03
general aviation. Uh, and yeah, it's
00:02:07
just it's been a theme of my life. You
00:02:09
know, I never quite made it to
00:02:10
university, but I've been an avid
00:02:12
student of science fiction uh and a lot
00:02:15
of that kind of aviation technology. Uh,
00:02:18
and yeah, I I I think it it's just one
00:02:21
of those areas that really compels me,
00:02:22
gets gets me excited, and has sort of
00:02:25
manifested it its way into all sorts of
00:02:27
things.
00:02:28
>> Well, it's um an absolute honor to have
00:02:30
you on the podcast. It's great to
00:02:31
finally connect with you. We've been
00:02:32
going backwards and forwards for um
00:02:34
months now in an attempt to make this
00:02:36
happen because um yeah, from what I know
00:02:38
about you, you're an intriguing guy. So,
00:02:39
it's wonderful to have you here today.
00:02:41
>> Great to be here, Tom. And um since we
00:02:44
started having the conversations going
00:02:45
backwards and forwards, you have become
00:02:47
the first New Zealander into space.
00:02:50
>> Yeah. Back May 31st in the US and in
00:02:52
Texas uh I signed up uh and got a flight
00:02:55
with Blue Origin on a New Shepard
00:02:57
suborbital flight and that was just
00:03:00
phenomenal. You know, it really exceeded
00:03:01
all of my expectations. I knew it was
00:03:03
going to be awesome, but it was just so
00:03:05
much more. Uh only a 10-minute short
00:03:07
flight, but wow, it was just the most
00:03:09
epic, intense 10 minutes of my life.
00:03:12
>> So, um, Blue Origin, that's the, um, the
00:03:14
Jeff Bezos one,
00:03:16
>> correct?
00:03:16
>> Yeah. And so, originally, Yeah. So, you
00:03:19
changed your name to Mark Rocket. And
00:03:20
then this is a goal you had, um, around
00:03:22
about that time to go into space.
00:03:24
>> Yeah. Well, I Yeah. Yeah, I I guess if
00:03:27
we go back a little bit, you know, as
00:03:28
part of my journey, I've I've really had
00:03:31
a process of of self-improvement where I
00:03:34
really wanted to keep, you know, finding
00:03:36
ways of incrementally improving myself.
00:03:39
And uh I did a course in 2000, the
00:03:42
entrepreneurs success program. And it
00:03:44
was it was great. It was a multi-year
00:03:45
kind kind of course. It was a great
00:03:47
group of other entrepreneurs and we'd
00:03:48
get together every few months and uh
00:03:50
there was a sort of program and there
00:03:52
was a sort of social aspect of it. And
00:03:54
yeah, one of those sessions in 2000 uh
00:03:57
was kind of an exercise where you're on
00:03:58
on your deathbed and you kind of
00:04:00
visualize, you know, what you wanted to
00:04:02
have achieved in your life. And sort of
00:04:04
going through that sort of process, I
00:04:06
realized, you know, I really wanted to
00:04:07
go to space. You know, that was
00:04:09
something I really wanted to tick off uh
00:04:11
the the the checklist. And so yeah, I
00:04:14
actually signed up initially uh around
00:04:17
2006 with Virgin Galactic and that was
00:04:20
an awesome process and got a whole lot
00:04:23
of really great experiences out of that.
00:04:25
Um but yeah, in the end I ended up going
00:04:27
with up with Blue Origin.
00:04:30
>> I I know there's a lot of there's NDAs
00:04:32
involved and there's um you know
00:04:34
commercially sensitive information, but
00:04:36
um you when you sign up for the like the
00:04:38
Virgin one, what's the what's the
00:04:39
deposit? Is that huge?
00:04:41
>> Uh yeah. Okay. Well, back then it was
00:04:44
200,000 US.
00:04:45
>> Oh my god.
00:04:50
>> You can't you can't say how much. That
00:04:51
was the deposit. So, is it like a mill?
00:04:53
>> No, no, no. That that was the full
00:04:54
amount.
00:04:55
>> Oh, that was the whole amount.
00:04:55
>> You basically pay the full amount.
00:04:57
>> Okay.
00:04:57
>> Uh
00:04:58
>> so, and and then you end up on selling
00:05:00
that. That one didn't go ahead. The
00:05:01
Virgin one.
00:05:01
>> Yeah, I cashed that one went in. Um
00:05:03
yeah, they did it. They started a few
00:05:06
commercial flights and uh yeah then
00:05:08
they're now redeveloping the the
00:05:11
spacecraft and I am on the list. I think
00:05:12
I got to seat number 37 38 but I think
00:05:15
it's going to be a year or two before
00:05:16
they get the the the next iteration of
00:05:18
their spacecraft. I wish them all the
00:05:20
best. You know amazing company and some
00:05:23
of those experiences that I was part of
00:05:25
with that Virgin Galactic Founders Group
00:05:28
were uh incredible and really inspired
00:05:31
me to get involved with the aerospace
00:05:32
industry here in New Zealand.
00:05:35
Did you did you have much to do with um
00:05:36
Sir Richard Branson?
00:05:38
>> Yeah, I met him a number of times. Uh
00:05:40
and you spent a week on his island,
00:05:42
Necar Island, the British Virgin
00:05:44
Islands. Uh that was that was pretty
00:05:45
cool getting to see how how he lives. Uh
00:05:49
and yeah, I think he visited Christ
00:05:51
Church and uh in Oakuckland, you know,
00:05:53
caught up a few times around the place
00:05:54
at various events. Uh yeah, he he's he
00:05:57
was a a phenomenal entrepreneur and
00:05:59
still is, but I think co probably
00:06:01
knocked him a little bit. I think he
00:06:03
said publicly he had like an investment
00:06:05
portfolio from hell for co you know with
00:06:07
all the tourism operations right uh but
00:06:10
yeah I'm I'm not quite sure what the
00:06:12
latest day of play is but uh yeah he's a
00:06:13
resilient guy and uh just has uh made a
00:06:18
marvelous contribution to to being such
00:06:21
iconic entrepreneur.
00:06:22
>> What about Jeff Bezos? So you end up
00:06:24
going up in Blue Origin which is um the
00:06:25
Bezos um spacecraft. Do you meet him
00:06:28
have much to do?
00:06:28
>> No, I haven't met Jeff yet. Hopefully
00:06:31
one day. Yeah, he he's obviously doing
00:06:33
some great stuff and you know what is is
00:06:35
happening there there with Blue Origin.
00:06:36
I think he puts about $2 billion a year
00:06:39
or so into that Blue Origin project and
00:06:41
that that's just kind of the um uh the
00:06:44
kind of poker money that might be normal
00:06:46
for for some of us. But uh yeah,
00:06:48
basically he he's made such a a great
00:06:51
contribution there uh to to the
00:06:54
aerospace industry. Blue Origin are just
00:06:55
really starting to build that flywheel
00:06:57
momentum
00:06:58
>> and you know what they've achieved with
00:07:00
Blue Origin New Shepard.
00:07:02
>> I think it's just the beginning. You
00:07:04
know, they're going to the New Glenn,
00:07:05
which is an orbital project and then
00:07:07
Blue Moon uh lunar project and and other
00:07:10
cool projects. So, I think we're going
00:07:11
to be hearing a lot more uh uh from Blue
00:07:13
Origin.
00:07:14
>> Yeah. Yes. So, so legally you've been to
00:07:18
space, but it was an 11 minute flight.
00:07:20
Does does it feel like it's it's
00:07:21
scratched the itch? Uh yeah, I'd really
00:07:24
like to to go again.
00:07:27
Uh
00:07:28
>> really, you're not a one and done.
00:07:30
>> Or would you want to go further or
00:07:31
longer or
00:07:32
>> Yeah, I mean orbital would would be
00:07:34
great, but uh yeah, they're pretty
00:07:35
pricey, but um
00:07:37
>> uh yeah, certainly, you know, that
00:07:39
suborbital flight was just just so
00:07:41
phenomenal. Uh and yeah, I I think about
00:07:45
it every day.
00:07:47
Yeah, your um your former business
00:07:50
partner um and mate um Sir Peter Beck
00:07:52
from Rocket Lab um and we'll get into
00:07:54
your involvement with Rocket Lab later
00:07:55
on, but um yeah, I've had him on the
00:07:57
podcast. You're you're the complete
00:07:58
opposite of each other, right? Like he's
00:07:59
he's obsessed with rockets, but has no
00:08:01
desire to go into space, doesn't want to
00:08:02
go anywhere near it, knows the risk
00:08:04
involved, doesn't want to leave Earth.
00:08:06
But you you on the other hand, it's like
00:08:08
you you really want to be there.
00:08:10
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think a couple of
00:08:11
days before I went on the flight, Peter
00:08:13
sent me an email and said, you know,
00:08:14
you're in in the right hands there with
00:08:16
the Blue Origin team. So, um yeah, uh
00:08:19
yeah, I I think he's definitely got a
00:08:21
different life philosophy to me. And uh
00:08:24
to be honest, I'm not I'm surprised more
00:08:25
New Zealanders haven't wanted to get
00:08:26
involved uh with with these sort of
00:08:28
space flights yet. And you know, sure,
00:08:31
the ticket price is a little bit high,
00:08:33
but uh yeah, I think there's going to be
00:08:36
>> thousands of of Kiwis that do go up into
00:08:38
space in the next decade. So the the
00:08:40
Blue Origin one. So yeah, it's over a
00:08:42
million, less than a million.
00:08:44
>> Yeah, I signed it in day for that.
00:08:46
>> You just can't say can't Wow. But it was
00:08:49
whatever you paid, it's you consider it
00:08:50
good value for money.
00:08:52
>> Amazing.
00:08:54
>> Was that the same one that um um Oprah
00:08:57
Winfreyy's friend Gail and Katy Perry
00:08:59
and those guys did?
00:09:00
>> Yeah. I was on the flight after them.
00:09:02
>> Oh, really?
00:09:03
>> Yeah.
00:09:03
>> Was it the same day or No,
00:09:05
>> no, no, no. It was about So you about
00:09:06
about a month later?
00:09:08
>> Yeah. So talk talk us through it. So
00:09:10
what sort of training is involved for
00:09:11
this?
00:09:12
>> Yeah. So you you arrived there in uh
00:09:15
sort of West Texas. Uh it's kind of like
00:09:18
you know the cars movie like Radiator
00:09:20
Springs, you know, it kind of looks just
00:09:21
like that. It's just a crazy uh
00:09:24
environment. Uh yeah. So you arrive
00:09:26
there, meet meet your other crew uh and
00:09:29
yeah, you stay in airirstream kind of
00:09:31
trailers in this sort of desert place
00:09:33
and yeah, they've got a really great
00:09:34
facility. Then yeah, the first day of
00:09:37
training, you go you go along uh to to
00:09:39
the the spaceport and there's a special
00:09:41
training facility building where you
00:09:44
kind of learn about how to get in and
00:09:46
out of the capsule and you know what to
00:09:48
do when you're in the capsule and sort
00:09:50
of going through the whole whole
00:09:51
process, making sure you feel
00:09:53
comfortable with uh what's happening on
00:09:55
on the flight day. Uh the second day is
00:09:58
more about off nominal situations where
00:10:01
if something goes wrong, you got to put
00:10:03
on uh a breathing mask and um yeah, how
00:10:06
to get out quickly, that kind of thing.
00:10:08
Um I was seat six, so I was the first
00:10:10
one on and the last one off, so it kind
00:10:12
of meant um I'd be pushing people out
00:10:15
out the door to get out there.
00:10:18
>> Were you scared? Uh well, I mean on the
00:10:22
actual flight day, uh yeah, I mean the
00:10:25
it started off as a kind of a a pretty
00:10:27
smooth elevator ride. Uh pretty cool,
00:10:30
but then it just get gets faster and
00:10:32
faster, you know, to the point where
00:10:33
we're doing 3,400 km per hour. And at
00:10:37
that point, you know, the adrenaline is
00:10:39
really uh really kicking in. Uh and then
00:10:42
there's a really swift transition when
00:10:45
the you get stage separation where the
00:10:47
booster drops off the capsule and uh
00:10:50
yeah, essentially you uh move into a
00:10:53
zero gravity environment really quickly
00:10:55
within a few seconds. So sort of that
00:10:58
transition from that full-on adrenaline
00:11:00
when you're on the edge of your seat
00:11:01
going, "Oh my god, what am I doing
00:11:02
here?" to basically experiencing zero
00:11:04
gravity uh and looking at the
00:11:07
magnificent views out the window. So
00:11:08
yeah, there was certainly a few moments
00:11:10
of uh what the heck uh but you know then
00:11:13
then you move into that kind of
00:11:15
situation.
00:11:16
>> So there's you and five other people.
00:11:18
>> Yes.
00:11:18
>> Yeah. And um yeah. How is it spacious?
00:11:21
Is it like the size of this room or
00:11:23
>> Yeah. Yeah. Rough roughly sort of sort
00:11:25
of similar. Um
00:11:26
>> so when it's zero gravity, you're not
00:11:27
like just you like limbs everywhere
00:11:29
bumping.
00:11:30
>> Yeah. I mean, it's uh the thing about
00:11:33
the Blue Origin
00:11:35
uh capsule was, you know, that they've
00:11:37
made it with huge windows and and trying
00:11:39
to make it as spacious as possible. Um
00:11:42
in the middle there is a big sort of
00:11:43
round circle just like you have here
00:11:44
with your table bit but bit smaller and
00:11:46
that's where basically you've got a
00:11:47
rocket uh motor sitting there. So if
00:11:50
something happens with the booster, the
00:11:52
that rocket motor can take you off the
00:11:53
booster. Um so yeah, so that sort of
00:11:56
takes up a bit of the cabin, but you've
00:11:58
got huge huge windows and there's a bit
00:11:59
of move
00:12:00
room to move around.
00:12:02
>> So, six people on board and and you guys
00:12:05
are all early adopters, so I'm guessing
00:12:07
these are like hardcore sort of space
00:12:09
fans or people that really wanted this
00:12:11
opportunity. Um, yeah. What did you know
00:12:12
about the uh about your what are they
00:12:15
called? Like your your crew? What did
00:12:17
you know about your crew or your
00:12:18
teammates? What are they what are they
00:12:19
called?
00:12:20
>> Fellow passengers.
00:12:21
>> Yeah, crew is as good as any. And yeah,
00:12:24
we we met a few times before, got to
00:12:26
know each other a little bit. Uh, and
00:12:28
yeah, there's a range of people. There
00:12:30
was a, you know, one guy had been to
00:12:32
every country in the world and, uh, he
00:12:35
wanted to kind of tick off going to
00:12:36
space as well. Uh, yeah, there was a a
00:12:39
teacher from Puerto Rico. Um, yeah, a
00:12:43
Canadian guy, an internet guy. Um, yeah,
00:12:46
just just just a range of people that
00:12:48
obviously had a absolute fascination for
00:12:50
for space like me.
00:12:51
>> A teacher from Puerto Rico. New Zealand
00:12:54
teachers listening to this are going to
00:12:55
be like, I need to like get a job
00:12:57
teaching in Puerto Rico.
00:12:58
>> Well, well, she actually she actually
00:12:59
got a sponsorship from a pharmaceutical
00:13:01
company. So, uh, yeah, she she really
00:13:04
did well there.
00:13:06
>> What about your family? Were they
00:13:07
nervous?
00:13:08
>> Yeah, my wife was there. Um, yeah,
00:13:10
there's a few photos of her looking
00:13:11
quite nervous.
00:13:14
>> She She didn't try and talk you out of
00:13:15
it.
00:13:16
>> No.
00:13:16
>> No. She just knew it's something that
00:13:18
you had to do.
00:13:19
>> Yeah.
00:13:23
you. What about the risk? Like what if
00:13:24
something went drastically wrong? I
00:13:25
know. I mean, I know it's going in an
00:13:26
opposite direction, but I'm thinking
00:13:27
about that Titanic sub from a couple
00:13:29
couple years ago. Like, what if what if
00:13:31
what if the unthinkable happened?
00:13:33
>> Yeah. Well, I think you've got to look
00:13:34
at what you really want to do. I mean,
00:13:36
for me, I wouldn't be that interested
00:13:38
going to the bottom of the ocean in a
00:13:40
composite material sub. And, you know, I
00:13:42
do know a little bit about composites
00:13:43
and uh that's not something I would ever
00:13:45
entertain. Um, yeah, I think like
00:13:48
anything, you've got to weigh up weigh
00:13:49
up the risks and uh, yeah, I mean, you
00:13:52
do you can go on a camping holiday to
00:13:56
across the North Island and, you know,
00:13:57
you have a bad day. It's um, you know,
00:13:59
life is is full of risk. You got to
00:14:01
choose the risk that you're happy to
00:14:03
take. And, you know, conversely, you
00:14:06
know, if you do die, you know, for me,
00:14:08
what a better what's a better way to die
00:14:10
than to blow up in a rocket.
00:14:12
>> It's like they you read it all the time.
00:14:14
Hey, how he died doing what he loved.
00:14:16
Exactly.
00:14:17
>> Um, so going at 3,400 km an hour, what's
00:14:20
what's that like?
00:14:21
>> Uh, yeah. I mean, it it was intense.
00:14:24
Yeah. I mean,
00:14:25
>> scary.
00:14:25
>> Yeah, scary. Yeah.
00:14:27
>> Were you prepared for that?
00:14:29
>> Well, yeah, I knew we were going to go
00:14:30
pretty fast. Um, but yeah, that the
00:14:32
sensation of it and you can sort of feel
00:14:34
the rocket adjusting and, you know,
00:14:36
basically it's an autonomous system, a
00:14:37
robotic system. So, you know, you're
00:14:39
really hoping that the the robot's
00:14:41
having a good day. Uh, so, uh, yeah, it
00:14:45
it kind of, you know, it it just just
00:14:48
put me out out of my comfort zone a
00:14:50
little bit. Uh, but not to the point
00:14:51
that I wouldn't do it again, but it it
00:14:53
just, you know, made me kind of feel
00:14:55
alive.
00:14:55
>> And was it was it a moving experience?
00:14:57
Like, did did were you emotional out
00:14:59
there? Did you cry? I mean, I'm just
00:15:00
thinking not just of the the the the
00:15:02
flight itself, which is relatively
00:15:03
short, but just the quarter of a century
00:15:05
of buildup to get to that moment.
00:15:07
>> Yeah. Well, not not so much about that.
00:15:08
But I mean it did did feel like a a
00:15:11
personal achievement. Something I I you
00:15:13
know felt you know really really
00:15:14
pleased. But I guess the main emotional
00:15:17
element really was seeing the earth from
00:15:19
space and seeing space and you know you
00:15:23
see a photo of of space you see the
00:15:25
blackness of space but to actually be
00:15:27
outside the earth's atmosphere and to
00:15:30
see the the context. I don't know about
00:15:31
you, Dom, but you know, maybe you sit
00:15:33
back sit back looking up at the stars
00:15:34
and you think about what it is to to
00:15:36
travel through the solar system or
00:15:38
through the galaxy. But, you know, in
00:15:39
the in the solar system, uh here we are,
00:15:42
I think it's 150 million kilometers. The
00:15:44
earth is away from from the sun. Uh you
00:15:47
know, the the sun has got 99.86
00:15:50
of the mass of of the solar system. It's
00:15:52
obviously a huge bit of mass, big blob
00:15:55
of mass in the middle of our solar
00:15:56
system. and you know it basically pulls
00:15:58
all the planets around it and and just
00:16:00
to you know it's kind of a crazy concept
00:16:02
when you when you think about it. U but
00:16:04
to actually see the earth and the sun
00:16:08
and space this this vast ocean of
00:16:10
blackness of space it kind of really you
00:16:13
really see the sort of context of this
00:16:15
this fragile planet. Uh, and yeah, just,
00:16:19
you know, that that blackness was kind
00:16:21
of like a little bit overwhelming. And,
00:16:23
you know, there's some of the other
00:16:24
passengers that that felt that as as
00:16:26
well. And you know, we're only up in um
00:16:29
in that environment for a few minutes,
00:16:31
but you see other astronauts that come
00:16:34
back uh after spending weeks or months
00:16:37
uh orbiting the Earth and that they have
00:16:39
something called the overview effect
00:16:41
where they they really do start thinking
00:16:43
a lot more about that sort of stark
00:16:45
fragility of the Earth.
00:16:49
>> If it um was an option in your lifetime,
00:16:51
would you want to travel to another
00:16:52
planet?
00:16:54
>> Yeah. Well, there's probably not that
00:16:55
many to choose from that are are going
00:16:58
to be that comfortable anytime soon. Uh
00:17:01
like yeah, Mars could could be kind of
00:17:03
interesting, but you know, even going
00:17:05
and living in the Antarctic, I've I've
00:17:07
had friends that go down there and uh do
00:17:09
the summer trips and actually got a
00:17:10
friend there at the moment doing the
00:17:11
winter trip. Uh that's that's pretty
00:17:13
fullon where, you know, Mars is going to
00:17:15
be 10x harder than that. Uh it's going
00:17:18
to be pretty cold. It's not, you know,
00:17:20
it's got to be a pretty severe
00:17:22
environment. I think I'd miss my running
00:17:24
and my tennis too much, Dom. Uh, and
00:17:27
it's, you know, it's nine nine months or
00:17:28
whatever to get there.
00:17:30
>> Uh, nine months to get back, it's uh
00:17:32
kind of a major major thing. When I was
00:17:34
younger, I think I' I would have been
00:17:36
all in. Uh, but but where I am now,
00:17:38
probably uh not so much.
00:17:40
>> You and I, you mentioned the running.
00:17:42
You and I, we're both in our 50s. We're
00:17:43
both dealing with um issues in our left
00:17:45
knees at the moment, I believe. Um like
00:17:46
training in zero gravity it's good for
00:17:48
the joints
00:17:48
>> I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:51
>> So um the so the 11minute flight um so
00:17:55
at the peak how how high how far away
00:17:57
from earth are you?
00:17:58
>> 105 km
00:18:00
>> right. [ __ ] That's a long way up isn't
00:18:01
it? And it took you how long to get
00:18:02
there? Just a few minutes.
00:18:04
>> Yeah.
00:18:06
So what can you see?
00:18:08
>> Yeah. Well essentially you know you're
00:18:10
above the clouds above the weather. You
00:18:13
can see that blackness of space, the the
00:18:15
Earth about a thousand kilometers to the
00:18:17
horizon. Uh and yeah, you there's the
00:18:20
sun radiating out there. And uh yeah, I
00:18:24
mean it's it's it's just it's hard to
00:18:26
describe. It's it's kind of like a
00:18:28
sensory overload type situation, you
00:18:30
know, going through that rocket powered
00:18:32
flight. you know, you got the the stage
00:18:35
separated, the engine shut off, the
00:18:36
stage separation, and then, you know,
00:18:38
you're very quickly into that zero
00:18:40
gravity environment, you know, doing
00:18:42
flips and uh moving around. Had a
00:18:45
placard with New Zealand on it and doing
00:18:46
a few things like that. Uh and then
00:18:50
basically you got to get ready for the
00:18:51
descent and that's pretty full on as
00:18:53
well. You actually go 3,700 km an hour
00:18:55
going on the way down. Uh, and yeah,
00:18:58
basically you just wait that the
00:19:00
friction uh from the atmosphere as it
00:19:02
gets thicker just needs to kind of slow
00:19:03
slow you down from 3,700.
00:19:06
Uh, and it it slowed the capsule down to
00:19:09
about 600 km/ hour and then you're kind
00:19:11
of waiting for the the little drug shoot
00:19:13
to deploy and then the main shoot to
00:19:15
deploy and then then you have that that
00:19:17
landing. So yeah, all in all there
00:19:20
there's there's a heck of a lot going on
00:19:22
in that 10 minutes.
00:19:23
>> What's the landing like? Is it quite a
00:19:25
heavy thud?
00:19:26
>> No, it's uh it's not too bad. I mean,
00:19:27
they they actually have some sort of
00:19:28
retro thrust thrusters at the bottom. Uh
00:19:30
so there's a big cloud of dust that that
00:19:32
comes up, but it actually softens that
00:19:35
landing pretty nicely.
00:19:38
>> I've seen um you photos and some video
00:19:40
online of you um like entering and
00:19:42
exiting the capsule. Did Did you feel
00:19:45
like a hero?
00:19:46
>> Um
00:19:46
>> you know what I mean?
00:19:47
>> Well, the it's the way the US do things
00:19:50
is quite different to the way we we
00:19:52
Kiwis do things here. So, you know,
00:19:54
during the the few days before we had
00:19:55
like a a fashion photographer following
00:19:59
us around and uh yeah, I mean I think
00:20:02
obviously a lot of the staff were that
00:20:03
they were quite happy to see customers
00:20:05
use using the thing that they built. So,
00:20:07
they cheer you on and you've obviously
00:20:08
got the family people there cheering you
00:20:10
on. So, yeah, I mean you kind of feel
00:20:13
like you're the center of attention
00:20:14
there for a little while. Um, but uh,
00:20:17
yeah, I mean, America kind of does it to
00:20:19
that that hype, to that kind of next
00:20:21
level that that we we don't really do
00:20:22
here in New Zealand. So, it it was kind
00:20:24
of kind of interesting.
00:20:25
>> So, you um, you you're now so you're the
00:20:28
only New Zealander that's been into
00:20:30
space. So, you you can confirm now that
00:20:32
the Earth is flat.
00:20:34
>> Yeah. Very flat. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:36
>> Yeah. How much of the curvature of the
00:20:38
Earth can you see when you're up that
00:20:39
high?
00:20:40
>> Yeah. It's about a thousand kilometers
00:20:41
to the horizon. So, you can just just
00:20:43
sort of see that that that faint Wow.
00:20:46
>> But there could have been a giant
00:20:47
tortoise sticking out the end. I don't
00:20:48
know. I might have seen something
00:20:49
holding it all up.
00:20:51
>> Um, yeah. What advice would you give to
00:20:53
a young Kiwi who has like a massive
00:20:55
massive dream that potentially, you
00:20:57
know, seems laughable that people laugh
00:20:59
at?
00:21:01
>> Yeah.
00:21:01
>> I feel like that's what you've done
00:21:02
you've done here. Like this is this has
00:21:03
been like half your life that you've had
00:21:05
this dream and it would have been almost
00:21:07
um unimaginable when you had the dream
00:21:09
and and it has come true for you.
00:21:12
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean for my journal
00:21:13
journey I came from, you know, pretty
00:21:14
pretty humble beginnings and uh yeah,
00:21:17
there's there's a lot of things that I
00:21:19
had to kind of overcome, you know, keep
00:21:21
improving myself and getting to the
00:21:23
point uh where I developed the skills
00:21:26
that I needed to do what I needed to do
00:21:28
and I think, you know, just really
00:21:29
committing to that incremental
00:21:30
improvement has been a key thing for me.
00:21:33
But, you know, al also balance, you
00:21:35
know, making sure you have balance in
00:21:37
your life. For me, that that's really
00:21:38
important. you know, you see people uh
00:21:41
like Elon Musk going full charge uh in
00:21:45
in a business area or political area,
00:21:47
whatever it is that they're doing. Uh
00:21:49
you know, for me, I I think, you know,
00:21:50
you've really got to have that balance
00:21:51
where you got to look at your health,
00:21:53
you got to look at your relationships
00:21:54
and your your business and and you know,
00:21:57
to me that makes a lot more sense, you
00:21:59
know, living a fulfilled balanced life.
00:22:02
So, that's something to looked at. But
00:22:04
yeah, I mean as as far as uh you know,
00:22:06
young kids, you know, I I do hope that a
00:22:10
lot of young Kiwis start thinking more
00:22:12
about the aerospace industry. You know,
00:22:14
that's certainly something that that is
00:22:16
quite exciting for New Zealand's future.
00:22:18
You know, Rocket Lab has has really led
00:22:21
led the charge. But there's a whole
00:22:22
bunch of aerospace companies doing
00:22:24
fantastic things in New Zealand. You
00:22:25
know, down here, we're a great place to
00:22:27
be a test bed for all these new advanced
00:22:29
aviation and space technologies. we've
00:22:32
sort of got this creative way of getting
00:22:34
things done pretty pretty cost-
00:22:36
effectively down here. So, I'm hoping
00:22:38
that we're going to be attracting a
00:22:39
whole lot of international projects and
00:22:40
start more national projects uh to get
00:22:43
people involved in the aerospace
00:22:45
industry. So, yeah, I know there's
00:22:46
there's a lot of kids that love science
00:22:49
fiction and you know that could be let's
00:22:51
say that's 10 20% of kids you know
00:22:54
hopefully a lot of those will those kids
00:22:56
will have an aerospace industry that
00:22:58
they can work in in the future. But
00:23:01
yeah, as far as just anyone wanting to
00:23:02
chase their dreams, you know, you know,
00:23:04
sometimes it it can be hard. Um, but I
00:23:06
think if if you really want to do it,
00:23:08
just progressively work towards it and,
00:23:11
you know, look at what skills you need
00:23:13
to do, uh, what places you need to put
00:23:15
yourself in to to create that
00:23:16
opportunity.
00:23:18
>> Yeah. I feel like you're a guy that
00:23:20
thought impossibly big and you've done
00:23:22
it.
00:23:23
>> Yeah. I'd say conversely, I think a lot
00:23:25
of people don't think big enough.
00:23:27
>> Yeah. Yeah,
00:23:28
>> a lot of people put sort of false
00:23:29
restrictions on them themselves and
00:23:31
maybe I'm just stupid enough to think
00:23:34
>> but beyond the realms of what what I
00:23:36
mean the reality is you know you look at
00:23:37
rocket lab you know what happened there
00:23:39
shouldn't actually be technically
00:23:41
possible if you look at the 10 other
00:23:43
space veing nations around the world all
00:23:46
of those other countries had massive
00:23:48
expenditure into building missiles or
00:23:51
boarding rockets developing a space
00:23:53
program you know New Zealand when we
00:23:54
started commercial operations of rocket
00:23:56
lab in 2007 seven there was no
00:24:00
government expenditure into into those
00:24:01
areas.
00:24:02
>> Uh so so really you know what Peter Beck
00:24:04
and and the team have done there you
00:24:06
know has been uh a bit of an outlier
00:24:10
compared to to the rest of the world
00:24:11
>> but it just goes to show you know if you
00:24:13
really drive towards it and you know you
00:24:16
got to have a few things line up in your
00:24:18
favor as well
00:24:19
>> but you know it is possible.
00:24:22
>> Yes. Um just picking up on something you
00:24:24
said before which I find quite
00:24:25
inspiring. You talked about the balance
00:24:26
in all aspects of your life, you know.
00:24:27
Um yeah, sort of dividing your time and
00:24:30
making sure everything's good, your
00:24:31
health's good, you know, your family's
00:24:32
good. Yeah.
00:24:33
>> Um when I had your old business partner,
00:24:35
Sir Peter Beck, on the the podcast, he
00:24:36
he had a quote that stuck with me. It
00:24:38
was something like um nothing nothing
00:24:39
great or nothing grand has ever achieved
00:24:41
on a 9 to5 timetable just sort of like
00:24:44
reflecting on like the you work and the
00:24:45
hours he's had to put in. How how can
00:24:47
you do how can you do it your way and
00:24:49
have it all? Yeah, I think different
00:24:51
people have different modes. You know,
00:24:53
what works for him, what works for Elon
00:24:55
is probably not in the realms of what
00:24:58
works for everyone. Uh I think you can
00:25:00
have tremendous success in different
00:25:02
ways. Uh and I think a lot of people
00:25:04
they want to kind of template what they
00:25:06
see working, but if you do template off
00:25:09
someone that is a completely different
00:25:11
personality type, emotional type, or
00:25:14
whatever to you, uh then you're never
00:25:16
going to be able to to do that. Uh yeah,
00:25:19
for for me I've I've found I've been
00:25:21
able to achieve my goals in a different
00:25:23
way and I think you know having that
00:25:24
balance and I I think it's kind of like
00:25:26
running a marathon you know if you
00:25:28
actually want to do a short B I mean
00:25:30
when I was in the internet days I would
00:25:31
be working until 10:00 at night midnight
00:25:35
2 a.m. you know that startup mentality I
00:25:38
had that when so you know when I was in
00:25:40
my sort of 30s you know I was doing a
00:25:42
lot of that but I realized it just
00:25:43
wasn't sustainable
00:25:45
>> and you know you're kind of running a
00:25:47
marathon you're not running a sprint
00:25:49
>> uh so you I if you look at a lot of
00:25:52
those successful entrepreneurs a lot of
00:25:53
them do have health issues or maybe you
00:25:56
know they don't have their relationships
00:25:59
and with their family or whatever in as
00:26:01
good a shape um so yeah I think it's a
00:26:04
matter of trying to find what works for
00:26:06
you
00:26:07
>> uh and sort of trying to take that
00:26:09
approach. But yeah, you you do need to
00:26:11
put a lot of effort into into starting
00:26:14
up a business. There's no two ways about
00:26:16
it. But, you know, maybe a lot of that
00:26:18
stuff is dead wood. You know, what is it
00:26:19
that you really need to do and trying to
00:26:21
prioritize the key things that are going
00:26:23
to move your business or organization
00:26:24
forward, I think is a lot more effective
00:26:26
than just putting in stupid hours.
00:26:28
>> Yeah.
00:26:29
Well, that's interesting. That's an
00:26:31
interesting takeaway. Um yeah, political
00:26:33
um persuasions aside, I've had um the
00:26:35
Prime Minister Chris Lux on the podcast
00:26:37
and he he I think the term he used is
00:26:39
ruthless time management.
00:26:40
>> So whatever he's doing, he's um he's
00:26:42
he's all in at that time. Um but it
00:26:44
doesn't mean he's a workaholic and he's
00:26:45
working 20 hours a day or anything crazy
00:26:47
like that. Um if he's Yeah. at the
00:26:49
movies with his wife Amanda, his phone's
00:26:51
off and he's fully engaged in that.
00:26:52
>> Yeah.
00:26:53
>> Um it feels like that's sort of in a in
00:26:55
a in a less clinical way what you're
00:26:58
saying.
00:26:58
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's
00:27:00
a that's a great appro approach. You
00:27:01
know, try and be present in whatever
00:27:02
you're doing. You know, you do have to
00:27:04
kind of wear different hats and just be
00:27:06
conscious about what hat you're wearing
00:27:07
at the time. And
00:27:08
>> yeah, I think that ruthless time
00:27:10
management approach is is a good one.
00:27:12
You know, we a lot of the times we do
00:27:14
stuff that we uh don't need to do uh or
00:27:18
shouldn't do, like maybe doing podcasts
00:27:19
and stuff like that.
00:27:22
>> Yeah, this is a not a good ROI.
00:27:25
Um yeah, you talk about the different
00:27:27
hats you're wearing. Um, and just a
00:27:29
thought that came to mind. So, did you
00:27:30
you wore a space suit in the in the
00:27:33
>> uh in the trip to space with Blue
00:27:35
Origin? It
00:27:36
>> was more like a space trackuit.
00:27:37
>> Okay. Do you get to keep it? Where is
00:27:38
it?
00:27:39
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but it's
00:27:40
back at home. Yeah.
00:27:41
>> Yeah.
00:27:41
>> Yeah.
00:27:42
>> What are you doing with it? You going to
00:27:43
you're going to frame it or
00:27:45
>> uh No, it's just just sitting there in
00:27:46
the wardrobe.
00:27:47
>> Yeah.
00:27:49
>> I feel I mean it's only it's only an
00:27:51
item of clothing, but it's um to me it
00:27:52
signifies something bigger than that.
00:27:54
like it's a, you know, like a 25 year
00:27:56
goal or dream that came to fruition. Um,
00:27:59
so there's something quite profound
00:28:00
about that item of clothing.
00:28:02
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, there's things that
00:28:04
I got to take up uh on on the flight.
00:28:06
Uh, so yeah, I mean, I got I got my
00:28:08
watch here that I wore a space, so
00:28:10
that's kind of with me all the time,
00:28:11
which sort of helps helps remind me,
00:28:13
connect me. Uh, so I think yeah, there's
00:28:16
different things. I took my wedding ring
00:28:18
and my my my wife's wedding ring up
00:28:20
there. So that sort of connects us. So I
00:28:22
think yeah, you just sort of choose what
00:28:23
what means something to you.
00:28:24
>> Oh, that's cool. Hey, so let's go back
00:28:26
to the early years. What are your
00:28:27
earliest memories?
00:28:29
>> Yeah. Well, I was I was born in 1970. Uh
00:28:32
yeah, 30 31st December, just like
00:28:34
Richard McCo, but he's he's 10 years
00:28:36
younger than me. Uh
00:28:38
>> played a few more test matches than you,
00:28:40
too. But has he been to space?
00:28:42
Uh and uh yeah, I mean growing up in
00:28:46
Christ Church in the 70s, you know, it
00:28:49
was uh yeah, interesting times. And you
00:28:52
know, in the 80s in Christ Church was
00:28:54
was a little bit dingy down there. You
00:28:55
know, it's got a whole whole different
00:28:56
vibe down there now. Uh but yeah, great
00:28:59
going to high school. Uh I was sort of a
00:29:02
middling kind of student. Didn't didn't
00:29:04
really achieve the potential that I had.
00:29:06
It took took me took me a while to kind
00:29:08
of learn really what I what I wanted to
00:29:10
to do in life. what I wanted to do with
00:29:12
my life. Uh so yeah, I sort of focused
00:29:15
on traveling the world and seeing a bit
00:29:16
of the world and and uh you know went
00:29:19
over to Europe and wi with my guitar and
00:29:22
did a bit of busking and worked in some
00:29:23
pubs and and that kind of stuff. And
00:29:25
yeah, when I ended up coming back to to
00:29:27
Christ Church, uh I I ended up getting a
00:29:30
job in 1994 and at one of the first
00:29:33
internet companies. So that was really
00:29:34
my my first big big break. And you know,
00:29:36
you sometimes you reflect back at some
00:29:39
of the breaks that you get in life and
00:29:40
you you probably had the same thing,
00:29:41
Dom, where you kind of look back and you
00:29:43
just think, if I hadn't have had that
00:29:44
meeting or hadn't have gone to that
00:29:47
place on that day, then everything would
00:29:48
have been different. And you know,
00:29:50
sometimes you just sort of look at those
00:29:52
three or four things that have made such
00:29:54
a massive difference to your life.
00:29:56
>> So you you were more creative than sort
00:29:58
of nerdy.
00:30:00
>> You mentioned the the musician aspect.
00:30:02
like were you like were you were you
00:30:04
good at maths or were you sort of like
00:30:06
computer minded?
00:30:07
>> Uh I did did do a bit of basic computing
00:30:10
kind of course there. I kind of like
00:30:11
game gaming was was pretty cool. Um but
00:30:14
yeah, I wasn't really gifted at at
00:30:16
maths. Uh yeah, I was probably a little
00:30:18
bit more uh early on the on the creative
00:30:21
side.
00:30:22
>> So then the internet comes along. So
00:30:24
yeah, I'm just trying to think you and I
00:30:25
are about the same age. So, um,
00:30:29
yeah, I mean, the internet made no no
00:30:31
sense to me, but you you acronyms like,
00:30:33
um, SEO, like search engine
00:30:36
optimization, which is relatively common
00:30:38
now, like this is something you were
00:30:39
using like in the 90s.
00:30:41
>> Yeah. I mean,
00:30:42
>> this is pre Google, by the way.
00:30:44
>> Yeah. I mean, the internet industry was
00:30:46
a whole different animal compared to
00:30:48
what it is now. And it was really run by
00:30:50
a lot of university types that were
00:30:54
there. And it was very much a kind of
00:30:56
open-source approach and they were
00:30:59
fighting really to try and maintain that
00:31:01
and kind of keep the corporate
00:31:03
commercial world out. And obviously they
00:31:06
kind of lost that fight. Darth Vader and
00:31:08
the Death Star came in and took over.
00:31:11
But uh yeah, it was it was a whole
00:31:13
different vibe. You know, it was a lot
00:31:14
of really smart people giving giving
00:31:16
time away to create useful tools uh to
00:31:19
to share with the world.
00:31:21
>> You mentioned um Darth Vader and the
00:31:23
Death Star just then. Were you a Star
00:31:24
Wars kid growing up?
00:31:26
>> Yeah, I mean my Yeah, I definitely I'm a
00:31:28
Star Wars generation kid and yeah, like
00:31:31
that Star Trek, but really my number one
00:31:33
favorite film was Alien. You know, the
00:31:35
gritty realism of that film, Truckers in
00:31:38
Space, you know, it just seemed a whole
00:31:39
lot more real and uh yeah, tangible. So,
00:31:43
yeah, I thought that that was certainly
00:31:45
one of my my early favorite films.
00:31:47
>> Was it movies where the curiosity began?
00:31:50
>> Uh, more science fiction books. Okay.
00:31:52
Yeah, read read a lot of sci-fi.
00:31:54
>> Um, so yeah, I I think that really sets
00:31:57
you up for creativity, innovation,
00:32:01
uh, and critical thinking. It kind
00:32:04
expands, you know, your world quite a
00:32:07
lot.
00:32:08
>> So, um, before the internet, what did
00:32:10
you want to do? Did you have aspirations
00:32:12
to be a musician?
00:32:14
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I thought it'd be it would
00:32:16
be kind of cool to to to be a musician,
00:32:18
but yeah, I just didn't quite have that
00:32:21
natural talent. Uh so, but yeah,
00:32:24
certainly got a lot out of it. Enjoyed
00:32:26
it. Uh and you know, just having that
00:32:29
kind of creative outlet, I think, is is
00:32:30
really important when when you're a
00:32:32
young young person.
00:32:33
>> Do you still play?
00:32:34
>> Um on and off. I mean, not as much as I
00:32:37
used to.
00:32:38
>> Yeah.
00:32:39
>> What did what did you do? Were you
00:32:40
covers or originals?
00:32:42
>> Yeah, a bit of both. Yeah. I one of my
00:32:44
tickbox things was I actually went into
00:32:46
recording studio with some session
00:32:48
musicians and and uh did did some uh um
00:32:52
of my originals and yeah really really
00:32:53
happy with those and they're in my
00:32:54
personal library and enjoy playing them
00:32:56
from time to time.
00:32:57
>> No no no desire to share them on
00:32:59
>> No, not really.
00:33:01
>> Who who's who's allowed to listen to
00:33:03
them?
00:33:04
>> Uh yeah, my wife and sometimes my
00:33:05
friends come around to parties and I
00:33:07
might put it on. They go, "Is that you?"
00:33:09
Yeah. So yeah, that's quite cool.
00:33:10
>> But what sort of genre? Uh, you know,
00:33:13
kind of that kind of rock kind sort of
00:33:16
sci-fi rock maybe.
00:33:18
>> Awesome.
00:33:19
>> Yeah.
00:33:20
>> Um, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, the internet
00:33:22
comes along. Um,
00:33:25
you co-ounded two internet companies in
00:33:26
1998.
00:33:28
>> Yeah. What were they?
00:33:29
>> Yeah. So, Avatar,
00:33:31
Avatar Web Promotions, as it was called
00:33:33
back then. Uh, Avatar
00:33:36
was a basically a web promotions
00:33:39
company. Yeah. And really the focus was
00:33:41
search engine optimization and basically
00:33:44
getting traffic to people's websites.
00:33:45
You know back back then it was pretty
00:33:46
early days. You know when I started in
00:33:48
that sort of area 97 uh at that stage
00:33:52
most people were just used they were
00:33:53
just thinking about getting a a domain
00:33:55
name and thinking about putting up a
00:33:57
basic web page. Uh but what I kind of
00:34:00
realized it's that that's just the
00:34:02
start. What you actually need to do is
00:34:03
get your target market to your web page
00:34:05
and that's really where you start
00:34:07
getting the phone ringing and getting
00:34:08
your emails. Uh so yeah, Avatar and then
00:34:11
obviously you had the Avatar movies that
00:34:13
came out uh subsequently. So we got a
00:34:16
lot of extra side traffic from that. Uh
00:34:18
uh but yeah, New Zealand tourism online
00:34:21
was another uh company I set up with
00:34:24
with two other people and um yeah, that
00:34:27
was sort of pretty pretty hardgoing
00:34:29
early on and we ended up building that
00:34:32
to being a very successful tourism
00:34:34
directory in New Zealand. We won five
00:34:37
New Zealand tourism awards. were in the
00:34:39
fast 50 moving companies three years in
00:34:40
a row. And then we got a magic call from
00:34:43
a fellow at uh Telecom Yellow Pages and
00:34:46
he and he said, "Well, we want to buy
00:34:48
your business." And uh that put a bit of
00:34:50
gas in my tank and from there moved into
00:34:53
the space arena.
00:34:55
>> Yeah. So that was that was 2006 that you
00:34:57
sold it. So you started New Zealand
00:34:58
tourism online in 98.
00:35:01
>> Yeah.
00:35:01
>> Okay. And then eight years later sold it
00:35:03
to Telecom Yellow Pages. Um can you
00:35:06
disclose how much or no? 9 million.
00:35:08
>> Right. So you get how many how many in
00:35:11
the business?
00:35:12
>> Uh there were two two of us. Two mainly
00:35:16
two of us at that stage. Yeah.
00:35:17
>> Yeah. Right. So you get four and a half
00:35:19
million
00:35:21
>> something like that.
00:35:24
>> So how how old are you at the time? What
00:35:25
are you like? Um 30 30ish.
00:35:28
>> Uh yeah. Well I I guess if we we we do
00:35:31
the math about uh Yeah. 35.
00:35:36
That's awesome.
00:35:37
>> Yeah. I mean, that was, you know, one of
00:35:39
those lucky breaks where we just
00:35:40
appeared on the radar at the right time.
00:35:42
You know, Yellow Pages was being sold by
00:35:45
Telecom. They were looking to buy a few
00:35:46
properties to kind of add a bit of X
00:35:48
factor into the Yellow Pages brand and
00:35:52
uh yeah, we were we were just on the
00:35:54
radar at the right time.
00:35:56
>> You say it's a lucky break, but um you
00:35:58
also said like a few sentences ago um
00:36:00
like just how hard you guys worked over
00:36:02
over many years to build this thing up.
00:36:04
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's
00:36:05
interesting, you know, you really do the
00:36:07
do the tough yard sometimes. I remember
00:36:10
there was one month where we were
00:36:12
>> realizing we we weren't making money. We
00:36:14
were going backwards. We had a $30,000
00:36:17
tax debt to the Ird. Uh we're in the
00:36:20
negative. And we thought, okay, let's
00:36:22
just give this another month and just
00:36:24
just just see if we can turn it around.
00:36:27
And yeah, we we hired a new person,
00:36:29
managed to to uh get get uh things going
00:36:33
and from there uh everything changed.
00:36:36
And and you know, I think a lot a lot of
00:36:38
it is about the timing
00:36:40
>> and you know, if you just get get the
00:36:43
right timing on your business, your
00:36:45
product, uh then everything can change.
00:36:47
You know, you can miss it by just a few
00:36:49
weeks.
00:36:51
>> Was that life changing?
00:36:53
>> Uh yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, you
00:36:55
know, I'd sort of gradually, you know,
00:36:58
had success
00:37:00
with my businesses, but yeah, I mean,
00:37:02
that that was definitely a point where I
00:37:04
had more money in the bank than I than I
00:37:05
ever had before.
00:37:06
>> And what do you do immediately? You you
00:37:08
do you buy anything cool?
00:37:11
>> Well, I bought I bought a ticket to
00:37:12
space with Virgin Galactic. So, yeah, I
00:37:15
remembered what I wrote down uh five
00:37:17
years before and thought, okay, I got to
00:37:20
do that. And, you know, gave gave some
00:37:21
money to Greenpeace and a few bits and
00:37:23
pieces and Awesome. Yeah.
00:37:25
>> And why do you keep going at that point
00:37:27
and do something else? I'm just
00:37:28
interested to get into your mindset. Um
00:37:30
because it seems like serial
00:37:31
entrepreneurs have a different mindset
00:37:32
to you know a lot of other people.
00:37:34
>> A lot of other people probably just like
00:37:35
I suppose buy a house, put some money in
00:37:37
the bank or invest it and you know put
00:37:40
their feet up.
00:37:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think there there's a lot
00:37:43
of mental I mean certainly I had a few
00:37:44
holidays and sort of took a bit of time
00:37:46
to reflect but what I realized is most
00:37:49
people uh they get bored you know if
00:37:53
there's stuff that you want to achieve
00:37:54
in life and you want to keep pushing it
00:37:57
then yeah you you got to find you know
00:37:59
what what really gives you that drive
00:38:01
you know look for that fire in your
00:38:02
belly and uh yeah I sto still had some
00:38:05
of that left and wanted to contribute in
00:38:07
various areas. M
00:38:10
>> Yeah. You need a reason. This is
00:38:11
something I'm discovering as I get older
00:38:13
and older. You need a reason to get out
00:38:14
of bed in the morning. Eh, you do need a
00:38:15
purpose.
00:38:16
>> Exactly.
00:38:17
>> Yeah.
00:38:18
>> Yeah. F you know. Yeah. You got to find
00:38:20
what it is. And you know, sometimes uh
00:38:23
you might not have that kind of drive.
00:38:25
You know, uh after Rocket Lab 2011, I I
00:38:28
took a bit of time out for for my family
00:38:30
had young kids. I really just wanted to
00:38:32
focus on u being being with them with
00:38:34
our younger and and taking it a bit
00:38:36
easier. Uh, and yeah, I sort of had a
00:38:40
few years here where I was thinking,
00:38:41
okay, what is my next thing? Do I do I
00:38:43
just want to uh get the batch in the
00:38:45
boat and take it easy and I I I
00:38:47
seriously thought about that, but then I
00:38:49
thought, no, I I you there's other stuff
00:38:50
that that I want want to do and if you
00:38:53
can really identify what it is and you
00:38:55
know, sometimes it can take years of of
00:38:57
mulling it over, contemplating, but
00:39:00
before you find it. And yeah, what I
00:39:03
actually I was actually thinking about
00:39:04
getting into virtual reality and I went
00:39:06
to the uh Silicon Valley virtual reality
00:39:09
conference uh in um up near San
00:39:12
Francisco and uh yeah, I thought that
00:39:14
could be something I got into, but yeah,
00:39:16
didn't didn't quite gel. Uh and a year
00:39:18
later, I decided I really wanted to get
00:39:20
back into the aerospace industry. Mhm.
00:39:24
>> Yes. I think for a lot of people the
00:39:25
fantasy would be like to build a
00:39:27
business up, sell it, um, and then go to
00:39:30
go to Dinerell or Honolulu and sit on a
00:39:33
hammock drinking cocktails for the rest
00:39:34
of your life. But the reality is six
00:39:36
weeks of that and you'd probably be
00:39:37
depressed.
00:39:38
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think Yeah.
00:39:40
book in a six week holiday and then come
00:39:41
back and get on with it.
00:39:43
>> Yeah. I'd imagine you on a holiday
00:39:45
that's that's probably your um thinking
00:39:47
time where your brain's woring over
00:39:48
coming up with new ideas of what you're
00:39:50
going to do next.
00:39:51
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think you know
00:39:52
flying in planes uh when you're actually
00:39:54
above the world and uh yeah it can and
00:39:57
you're away from the computer and can
00:40:00
can you know just just being able to
00:40:01
exit from your normal life in some way I
00:40:04
think is is a really powerful thing.
00:40:06
>> Uh and certainly yeah if I am lying
00:40:07
around um by the pool or whatever I'm
00:40:12
often thinking about all sorts of other
00:40:14
crazy stuff and it can can incubate a
00:40:16
whole lot of ideas and think oh I really
00:40:17
want to do that. M.
00:40:19
>> So what year did you change your name
00:40:20
again to Rocket?
00:40:22
>> 2000.
00:40:22
>> 2000. Okay. So that was six years before
00:40:24
the before selling out to um Telecom
00:40:27
Yellow Pages. And then um there's an
00:40:30
interesting So yeah, how did you become
00:40:32
sort of media famous? I remember do you
00:40:34
doing some interviews and bits and
00:40:35
pieces?
00:40:36
>> Yeah. I don't think I famous. I mean, I
00:40:38
think I've done I've done a a few little
00:40:40
media things, but
00:40:41
>> was it was it just like a media
00:40:42
curiosity thing after you changed your
00:40:44
name to Rocket or
00:40:46
>> No, it was around uh Virgin Galactic.
00:40:48
>> Okay.
00:40:48
>> Uh so yeah, essentially when I got the
00:40:51
ticket, signed up with them, I realized
00:40:53
that a lot of other people
00:40:54
internationally were getting quite a bit
00:40:55
bit of media. Uh, so yeah, I decided
00:40:58
just to organize things and I just did a
00:41:01
a media release um so that I could
00:41:04
control a little bit the timing
00:41:06
>> and uh yeah, but I think I sort of got
00:41:08
on the radar a little bit there.
00:41:10
>> Is is that where um the worlds of um
00:41:14
yourself and Peter Beck collided? He
00:41:15
heard you on a radio. He he told me on
00:41:17
um on our podcast that he heard you do a
00:41:19
thing on the radio.
00:41:20
>> Uh yeah, and he reached out to you. He
00:41:22
got a hold of you somehow.
00:41:23
>> Exactly. Yeah. I think he'd sort of
00:41:24
tried a whole lot of potential investors
00:41:26
and he thought, "Hey, the space guy
00:41:28
might be into what I'm into
00:41:30
and uh yeah, so he he gave me a call and
00:41:34
um yeah, so that worked out pretty
00:41:35
well." And I think at the time I'd just
00:41:37
come back from the International Space
00:41:38
Development Conference and I saw Elon
00:41:41
Musk speaking and met Buzz Uldren and uh
00:41:44
it was it was so inspiring and I thought
00:41:47
you know all the actions happening in
00:41:48
the top half of the planet you know
00:41:49
maybe the southern hemisphere could get
00:41:51
involved with this emerging new space
00:41:53
industry as well
00:41:54
>> and I I think I mentioned that on the
00:41:56
radio saying I'd really like to see a
00:41:59
space industry emerge in New Zealand and
00:42:01
um yeah next minute u Peter Peter gave
00:42:05
me a Cool. So, how does how does that
00:42:07
phone call go?
00:42:09
>> Yeah, I mean, I actually had a few phone
00:42:10
calls from a few different people that
00:42:12
were at various stages. Uh, and yeah, I
00:42:16
just asked him to to send through his
00:42:18
his his plan and, you know, I realized
00:42:21
he had something interesting going on
00:42:22
and we met and I could just see he was a
00:42:25
really driven driven fellow and knew
00:42:28
what he was talking about. Did did a bit
00:42:30
of research and thought, okay, let's
00:42:33
let's give it a go. Oh, so other people
00:42:35
reaching out as well, like wanting money
00:42:36
for whatever venture they were doing.
00:42:38
Was it all space themed or just people
00:42:40
wanting money to?
00:42:41
>> Yeah, sort of space themed.
00:42:42
>> Okay.
00:42:43
>> So, what was Rocket Lab then? Rocket Lab
00:42:45
is now like a I got I don't know 1015
00:42:47
billion dollar company, but what was it
00:42:48
then?
00:42:49
>> Yeah, I mean we we started off as a as a
00:42:52
pretty basic uh company, low low
00:42:55
valuation. Uh but you know, the reality
00:42:57
is nothing had been achieved at that
00:42:59
point. uh and you know we had a a
00:43:01
PowerPoint presentation uh a rough plan
00:43:04
and you know that plan completely
00:43:06
changed obviously as as we got into it.
00:43:08
Uh but you know sometimes you just got
00:43:10
to believe that you know your business
00:43:12
partner and you can work well together
00:43:14
and you can you can make it happen.
00:43:16
>> Why did you guys work so well?
00:43:18
>> Yeah. Well, I think
00:43:20
>> just different skill sets.
00:43:21
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think obviously
00:43:23
technically uh he's he's a magician, you
00:43:25
know, he just make make it happen. uh
00:43:28
and you know I'd had some success with
00:43:30
the instant industry and sort of brought
00:43:32
that initial sort of governance and
00:43:34
marketing aspect along uh on those those
00:43:37
early years and you know what what's
00:43:38
really amazing about Peter is he just
00:43:40
levels up you know he he's had a
00:43:42
phenomenal personal growth and you know
00:43:45
it's just amazing to see how well he's
00:43:47
doing and how far he's come.
00:43:50
>> So you bought half of Rocket Lab.
00:43:53
>> Yep.
00:43:53
>> Um so this was in 2007.
00:43:56
>> Yep. Can you remember how much?
00:43:58
>> Uh, roughly.
00:44:00
>> What was it like? 200.
00:44:01
>> Uh, a bit more.
00:44:02
>> 250.
00:44:04
>> Well, a bit more.
00:44:05
>> Oh, 300.
00:44:07
>> 300,000.
00:44:09
>> Something like that.
00:44:09
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which is is crazy
00:44:12
now with the benefit of hindsight to see
00:44:14
see what that company has grown into,
00:44:15
right? It's massive.
00:44:17
>> Um, yeah. And your co-director. So, what
00:44:20
do you like
00:44:23
I mean on the big scheme of things,
00:44:24
that's not a lot of money. So, what do
00:44:25
you do with that? like how do how do you
00:44:26
use 300,000 or whatever the money is to
00:44:30
you know build a rocket like where does
00:44:32
it go?
00:44:33
>> Yeah. Well, I think with high risk
00:44:35
ventures like that it's it's good to
00:44:36
have a specific target in mind and
00:44:39
essentially what we were doing with that
00:44:40
money is to try and get a rocket to
00:44:42
space and uh you know we we believed we
00:44:46
could give it a go and uh in the end we
00:44:48
needed a bit more money than that. So I
00:44:49
put some more money in. Um but I could
00:44:51
see that we were making good technical
00:44:53
progress.
00:44:54
>> Uh and yeah, we we did the the first
00:44:56
space launch around November 2009. So in
00:45:00
a few years, uh Peter and the team did a
00:45:02
great job getting things ready. A whole
00:45:04
new rocket motor, hybrid fuel, uh new
00:45:08
new airframe. Uh so yeah, it was
00:45:12
sometimes you you know you put you put a
00:45:14
little bit of money in to to aim for a
00:45:16
specific goal and and then from there
00:45:18
obviously you can work at it if if the
00:45:21
company's got legs
00:45:23
>> at the time. Did you have people in your
00:45:25
ear like accountants, you know, business
00:45:27
mentors or anything saying, "Mark, what
00:45:29
the [ __ ] are you doing?"
00:45:30
>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, you you definitely
00:45:32
get a bit of that. Um,
00:45:34
>> I mean, it's easy to look back in
00:45:35
hindsight and go that was a smart move
00:45:37
and and um it was a very good decision,
00:45:39
but at the time I'd imagine that was um
00:45:41
people a lot of people would have
00:45:42
thought you were bonkers.
00:45:44
>> Yeah, probably.
00:45:47
>> Well, I think a lot of it comes down to
00:45:49
the the gut feel that you have and if
00:45:51
you know you you sort of tick the boxes
00:45:53
that you need to tick for due diligence
00:45:56
>> and you just want to give it a go. M
00:45:58
well and okay in 2007 what was it that
00:46:01
you saw in Peter Beck and Rocket Lab
00:46:02
that others didn't?
00:46:04
>> Yeah. Well, he had a pretty good career
00:46:05
at IRL industrial research uh and you
00:46:09
know the references of people that he
00:46:11
worked with uh were pretty pretty
00:46:14
compelling and and I think also just
00:46:17
someone that spends their whole life in
00:46:20
their shed building rockets and playing
00:46:21
around with motors. I mean obviously
00:46:23
they're really into it, right? Uh so
00:46:26
yeah, he wasn't just someone that had
00:46:28
gone to university and done the kind of
00:46:29
minimum engineering course and then
00:46:31
said, "Hey, I've got this idea." He he'
00:46:33
lived and breathed it and you know that
00:46:35
passion you can pick that up in people
00:46:37
and uh yeah lucky enough we ended up
00:46:40
working together.
00:46:41
>> He's he's an absolute gem of a New
00:46:43
Zealander. He told me some stories on
00:46:44
the podcast like when he I think he was
00:46:46
working at Fischer and Pel at the time
00:46:47
and spending all his spare time
00:46:49
>> just making stuff at home and um some
00:46:51
his workmates from Fisher and Per would
00:46:53
drop meals around to him because they
00:46:54
they were worried that he just wasn't
00:46:55
eating.
00:46:56
>> So he just had this one track mind
00:46:58
>> um just building stuff and would forget
00:47:00
to eat.
00:47:01
>> Yeah. You I think you know passion goes
00:47:02
a long way if someone is is really into
00:47:04
it and really driven about it and you
00:47:06
see that for winning companies, winning
00:47:08
teams, you know, you you've got to have
00:47:10
that drive and and rale.
00:47:13
Yeah, I've got a quote from him from our
00:47:15
podcast. Um, if it wasn't for Mark, none
00:47:18
of this would have happened because he
00:47:20
was the first person to put some money
00:47:22
in, and all credit to Mark. Ultimately,
00:47:24
I bought Mark back out and that was
00:47:25
critical because you can't turn up to
00:47:27
Silicon Valley with half a company with
00:47:29
half your company sold.
00:47:31
>> Yeah. Um, you guys still close now?
00:47:34
>> Close-ish. Well, we we keep in touch
00:47:36
from time to time, but you know, he's in
00:47:38
his world now, and I'm pretty busy with
00:47:40
my company, Kia Aerospace, these days,
00:47:42
so I think we're both pretty busy doing
00:47:44
our own thing.
00:47:44
>> Yeah, but there was no no bad blood or
00:47:47
anything there.
00:47:48
>> No, no, I think, you know, uh I'm just
00:47:52
so impressed with uh how he's taken the
00:47:55
company on and and upwards. And I'm I'm
00:47:58
pleased to be a shareholder still to
00:47:59
this day. And uh yeah, the company
00:48:02
valuation's looking pretty good. It is.
00:48:04
Yeah. So, you sold So, you had half the
00:48:07
company, you sold in 2011. Did you did
00:48:09
you want to sell? What was the decision
00:48:11
process in that?
00:48:12
>> Yeah, we sort of won a contract that I
00:48:14
didn't really it didn't really fire up
00:48:17
with me. Uh, and again, you know, I
00:48:18
wanted to step out and spend some time
00:48:20
with with my family. So, it was a good
00:48:22
time for to exit.
00:48:23
>> Um, but then things got shuffled around
00:48:26
a few years later and I got given shares
00:48:28
in the new Rocket Lab USA company and um
00:48:30
had had them ever since. So yeah, pretty
00:48:33
pretty pleased the way it's all worked
00:48:34
out.
00:48:35
>> Yeah, those those I mean your your
00:48:37
shareholding is probably significantly
00:48:39
larger than mine, but um yeah, it's gone
00:48:41
up like 500% or something in the past
00:48:43
year. It's just been crazy. You you
00:48:45
probably don't update your shares
00:48:46
account as often as what I do to see
00:48:48
what the price is doing.
00:48:50
>> Uh no, not really.
00:48:52
>> But do do like do you know what your
00:48:53
holdings is in the company? Is it like
00:48:54
1% 2%. Uh, I don't know if I want want
00:48:58
to go there, but I'm I'm pretty pretty
00:49:00
happy with the way things have worked
00:49:01
out. You know, I looked after Peter.
00:49:03
Peter looked after me and uh
00:49:05
>> life goes on.
00:49:07
>> Um, yeah, he he he's got a Delorean. Um
00:49:11
>> Oh, cool.
00:49:13
>> You know, like he's a big fan of Back to
00:49:15
the Future. So, he's got a Delorean. Uh,
00:49:17
it's got a cassette deck in with the,
00:49:18
you know, the Back to the Future
00:49:20
soundtrack.
00:49:21
>> That's cool. That's cool.
00:49:23
>> Yeah. Apart from the uh the Blue Origin
00:49:24
Flight, have you bought anything cool
00:49:26
like that?
00:49:27
>> Uh I got a Gretch guitar. Uh which
00:49:30
>> what's that?
00:49:31
>> Uh it's kind of like a rockabilly
00:49:32
guitar, you know, like stray cats, you
00:49:34
know. Um so yeah, that that was a real
00:49:36
dream when I was uh younger. And uh
00:49:40
>> yeah, just a few bits and pieces. I've
00:49:42
got a Tesla, which I think is cool. I
00:49:44
mean, obviously Elon's a little bit
00:49:46
controversial these days, but uh yeah, I
00:49:48
think Tesla's done done a pretty great
00:49:50
job. And you know, SpaceX, SpaceX have
00:49:52
have done some pretty great things for
00:49:54
the aerospace industry.
00:49:56
>> Um, but uh, yeah,
00:50:00
>> you're quite you're quite a simple guy,
00:50:01
eh? Quite a just quite a quite Yeah.
00:50:03
quite a basic humble guy.
00:50:06
>> Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know.
00:50:08
Maybe
00:50:10
[Music]
00:50:11
>> that's that's what a humble guy would
00:50:13
say.
00:50:14
So, tell us about Kia Aerospace. So,
00:50:16
this was founded in 2018. Why do why do
00:50:19
you keep you you keep doing new ventures
00:50:21
and you you don't you don't really need
00:50:22
to eh
00:50:24
>> is it just what we were talking about
00:50:25
before?
00:50:26
>> Yeah,
00:50:26
>> just that purpose.
00:50:27
>> Yeah, I just I really wanted to I guess
00:50:30
it goes back down to mission wasn't
00:50:32
quite fulfilled when we started Rocket
00:50:34
Lab because initially we were going to
00:50:36
set up down in Christ Church
00:50:38
>> and uh I I really think the South Island
00:50:40
is a great place to do a lot of this
00:50:42
aerospace development. Uh so that didn't
00:50:44
quite happen. So there was kind of an
00:50:46
itch there that I thought, oh, I'd
00:50:48
really like to get something more
00:50:49
happening down in the South Island. So I
00:50:51
started to hang out at the University of
00:50:53
Canterbury. Uh made some made some uh
00:50:55
new connections there. Uh and yeah,
00:50:58
ultimately our CTO Dr. Dr. Philip
00:51:00
Sultrop was just finishing up his his
00:51:02
PhD and we were sort of chucking around
00:51:05
different ideas. Initially thinking
00:51:08
about maybe payloads for rockets but uh
00:51:12
stumbled across this idea for key
00:51:14
aerospace which essentially is a solar
00:51:17
powered aircraft that flies in the
00:51:19
stratosphere and can fly for weeks or
00:51:22
months continuously. And I just fell in
00:51:24
love with that concept. You know, an
00:51:26
aircraft that can fly for months
00:51:27
continuously using solar power. the
00:51:30
power of the sun. I just thought that
00:51:31
was such a cool uh such a cool project
00:51:34
to get to part of. And you know the
00:51:36
reason you fly above the stratosphere or
00:51:38
in the stratosphere above above the
00:51:40
weather above the other air traffic is
00:51:42
you know basically you can just keep
00:51:44
keep flying there uh above the clouds
00:51:47
where you don't have any of those kind
00:51:49
of issues at low altitude. So yeah,
00:51:52
really opens up a whole bunch of new
00:51:54
applications around remote sensing,
00:51:57
earth observation for environmental
00:51:59
monitoring, humanitarian disaster
00:52:01
response through to maritime domain
00:52:03
awareness. You know, there's a whole lot
00:52:05
of different applications that this kind
00:52:07
of loitering capability
00:52:09
>> uh can can be used for.
00:52:11
>> You you I'm going to ask a lot of dumb
00:52:13
questions here from myself and maybe
00:52:14
some people that are listening. So the
00:52:16
um these these key aircraft like what
00:52:18
sort of sites are they? Uh what sort of
00:52:21
what sort of height are they hovering
00:52:22
around?
00:52:23
>> Yeah, so we built two K Atmos Mark1
00:52:25
aircraft so far. Uh we did our first
00:52:27
Stratospheric flight in February this
00:52:30
year and that got up to 56,000 ft. So
00:52:34
yeah, that was a real milestone. And
00:52:36
then this summer we're aiming to do a
00:52:37
few more stratospheric flights over
00:52:39
60,000 ft. So if you were flying to the
00:52:41
US, uh you're probably flying say 38,000
00:52:44
40,000 ft. So, so yeah, we're we're
00:52:46
another kind of third or so above above
00:52:49
the jet streams.
00:52:50
>> How how big are they?
00:52:51
>> About 12 and a half meter wingspan.
00:52:54
>> Okay, that's huge.
00:52:55
>> And so, yeah, we're we're just moving
00:52:57
into phase two where we've started
00:52:59
designing the MK2 aircraft and that'll
00:53:01
be about a 30 meter wingspan aircraft.
00:53:03
And yeah, the MK1 is a dawn to dusk type
00:53:06
scenario just to enable us to get up to
00:53:09
the stratosphere. The MK2 will enable us
00:53:11
to stay up there for weeks or or months
00:53:14
continuously. So that's going to be, you
00:53:16
know, a major achievement if we can get
00:53:18
that done.
00:53:19
>> What sort of weight can they can they
00:53:21
carry?
00:53:22
>> Yeah, the the whole thing with this is
00:53:24
it's about minimizing the mass,
00:53:25
minimizing the weight and and minimizing
00:53:28
the the energy consumption. So yeah, the
00:53:31
Mark 1, it's under 40 kgs. Even though
00:53:34
it's 12 and a half meter wingspan, which
00:53:35
is a pretty pretty big aircraft
00:53:37
wingspan,
00:53:38
>> uh it it weighs under 40 kgs. So, it's
00:53:41
using composite materials and you know,
00:53:43
everything's kind of optimized to to
00:53:46
make it as light as possible. The MK2
00:53:48
aircraft which will have and most of
00:53:50
that weight is actually the batteries.
00:53:51
Uh so the MK 2 aircraft will be be about
00:53:54
150 200 kgs and and 30 meter wingspan.
00:53:58
So yeah, m a much much uh larger
00:54:01
wingspan, but uh yeah, still we just we
00:54:05
just really got to keep it as light as
00:54:06
possible. And then you know the power
00:54:08
requirements, you know, with the Mark 1,
00:54:09
we we got to the stratosphere on the
00:54:11
power of a haird dryer.
00:54:12
>> So yeah, and again it needs to be really
00:54:15
efficient, really optimized.
00:54:16
>> And do they move around up there
00:54:18
>> or they sort of stationary?
00:54:20
>> Yeah, so essentially just just flies
00:54:22
would sort of circle like a normal
00:54:24
aircraft. But you know, one of the key
00:54:26
things with it is we want to pick
00:54:27
weather days which are really calm. And
00:54:30
you know, as you sort of go up, there's
00:54:32
different um elements in the atmosphere,
00:54:34
different conditions. Uh and so, you
00:54:37
know, might be pretty calm at sea level,
00:54:39
but as you go up to the jet streams, it
00:54:42
could be 200 km an hour and it looks
00:54:44
like it's blue skies and clear, nothing
00:54:45
going on, but you you you get get a bit
00:54:48
of a stratification of of what's going
00:54:49
on with with the weather layers. So,
00:54:51
there there could be a bunch of
00:54:52
different weather layers that you need
00:54:53
to need to punch through. Uh, and you
00:54:55
know, these aircraft are are light.
00:54:57
They're they're not like a Spitfire
00:54:59
designed for uh aerero aeronautic or
00:55:03
aerodynamic kind of behaviors. Uh, so
00:55:06
yeah, you just you just need to try and
00:55:08
pick a good weather day to go up.
00:55:11
>> I find that so inspiring. Um, I I love
00:55:14
that about this podcast, like getting to
00:55:16
speak to New Zealanders like you who are
00:55:18
um just out there out there getting it
00:55:21
and doing really cool stuff, getting
00:55:22
really cool stuff done. So, does someone
00:55:25
come to you with this idea of K Kia
00:55:27
Aerospace and say, you know, Mark, um,
00:55:29
you've got the money, I've got this
00:55:30
idea, let's go into business together,
00:55:32
or do you have the idea? How does this
00:55:34
how's this sort of born?
00:55:36
>> Yeah, I I think you've got to look at
00:55:38
what's worked with you before. You know,
00:55:40
for me, I I was sort of filtering
00:55:43
different ideas about, you know, what
00:55:45
what I could do. And,
00:55:46
>> you know, the litmus test for me is I've
00:55:48
got to have a fire in my belly about
00:55:50
really wanting to do it. you know, the
00:55:51
reality is you're going to put a lot of
00:55:52
time into that project. So, you want to
00:55:54
do something that you're absolutely in
00:55:56
love with. Uh so, yeah, I kind of set up
00:55:59
the conditions where I was sort of open
00:56:01
to uh looking for projects that fired up
00:56:04
my imagination and uh yeah, and you
00:56:08
know, there's a bit of a process. It
00:56:10
took me years as I said to kind of
00:56:11
finally land on on this ne next
00:56:13
iteration of what I'm doing. Oh yeah,
00:56:17
one thing I read online is um uh to do
00:56:19
with K aerospace. Was you looking for
00:56:21
investors? And I wanted to um ask about
00:56:24
this from like a I suppose like a
00:56:26
perspective of curiosity. Um if you've
00:56:29
got the money yourself, why like why
00:56:31
wouldn't you just put your own money in
00:56:32
rather than try and get money from other
00:56:33
people?
00:56:34
>> Yeah. So yeah, for the MK1 program, I
00:56:37
mean I' I'd funded things in the kind of
00:56:39
um early round, the founders round um
00:56:42
but we really wanted to bring in some
00:56:44
international partners that would open
00:56:46
up doors internationally. Uh so yeah,
00:56:49
for for the funding work on the MK1, we
00:56:53
we talked to let's say about 100
00:56:55
different potential investors. Uh we had
00:56:57
a had a few people lined up that were
00:56:59
interested to to invest, but we ended up
00:57:01
just going with one investor based in
00:57:02
Austria. He's he's a multi-billionaire
00:57:05
and he comes from a plant and
00:57:06
manufacturing background there. So when
00:57:08
we move into our manufacturing phase, he
00:57:10
he'll bring in and add a lot of value to
00:57:12
that. And now we're about to to do a
00:57:16
funding round for the MK2 to fund the
00:57:18
the the larger version. And again, we're
00:57:19
looking for strategic partners because
00:57:22
the hopefully the last funding round
00:57:23
will be will be the next one, the series
00:57:25
A. And that that next one will basically
00:57:27
be building a hundred plus of those
00:57:30
aircraft. and uh you know that's going
00:57:32
to take a few bucks to kind of set up
00:57:33
the facility for that. But yeah, right
00:57:35
now we're on the MK 2 funding round and
00:57:37
you know looking for strategic partners
00:57:38
to to help us get get through to the
00:57:40
series A.
00:57:42
>> Are there lessons that you've learned
00:57:44
from um previous startup phases like
00:57:46
with Rocket Lab and you with the
00:57:48
internet stuff that you've taken into
00:57:50
this venture or are they all just
00:57:51
completely different?
00:57:52
>> Yeah, sure. I mean, you you you just
00:57:54
sort of accumulate uh a vast amount of
00:57:56
experience over the years if you're
00:57:57
around long enough and and uh yeah, you
00:58:00
learn what not to do. Uh you know,
00:58:02
obviously you learn a lot from your
00:58:03
mistakes, but hopefully you don't make
00:58:05
too many big mistakes. Uh and also you
00:58:07
learn, you know, from what what you did,
00:58:08
right? And I think, you know, obviously
00:58:11
you got to be aware that you you can
00:58:14
sort of come from the sort of lens of
00:58:16
your experience, but you've got to be
00:58:18
open to new ideas and new ways of doing
00:58:20
things as well. So, it's it's about kind
00:58:21
of walking that that tight rope of doing
00:58:23
what you think is going to work and what
00:58:26
has worked in your experience, but at
00:58:27
the same time taking into account th
00:58:30
those those new ideas that that need to
00:58:32
come in as well.
00:58:34
>> When there's a bad day at the office
00:58:35
now, do you get stressed or have you
00:58:37
just been through like everything
00:58:38
imaginable in business and you've got
00:58:40
the wisdom and the experience to know
00:58:42
that nothing's that drastic?
00:58:44
>> Yeah. Well, again, that's where the
00:58:45
balance comes in. you know, you have a
00:58:47
bad day where you go for a run or go to
00:58:49
the gym or uh go to a movie uh or with
00:58:52
your with your partner or whatever. So,
00:58:55
uh yeah, I think having that balance
00:58:56
really uh plays a lot uh of advantages
00:58:59
for you. So,
00:59:00
>> but yeah, sometimes you're going to have
00:59:02
great days and some days you're going to
00:59:04
have some challenges. Um but you just
00:59:06
got to keep putting it into into
00:59:07
context.
00:59:09
>> Does everything you touch turn to gold?
00:59:12
Uh well, I wouldn't say that, but uh
00:59:14
>> it's it it seems like that like I mean
00:59:17
it must speak volumes about the way that
00:59:19
you work. Like you you commit to
00:59:21
something and then you just figure out a
00:59:22
solution or
00:59:24
>> there's been a lot of success.
00:59:25
>> Well, I think my secret is just stamina,
00:59:28
you know, I just keep on going and uh
00:59:31
yeah, and you do have to be aware of
00:59:34
when when you do need to pull out. You
00:59:35
know, sometimes people go too far. Um,
00:59:38
but yeah, I think, you know, as Richard
00:59:40
and Branson has said, you know, you got
00:59:41
to protect your downside. So, you got to
00:59:43
think, okay, this is the goal I'm going
00:59:44
for. I'm putting that money aside to do
00:59:46
it. And, you know, if if you get past
00:59:49
that red line, you know, don't don't go
00:59:51
any deeper than that.
00:59:52
>> So, you just got to work out, you know,
00:59:53
where your comfort level is on on the
00:59:55
energy you're putting in, on the money
00:59:56
that you're putting in, and uh and and
00:59:59
go from there.
01:00:00
>> But, yeah, I I think incrementally you
01:00:03
can achieve so much. And I think if you
01:00:06
know if you can just improve things by
01:00:08
1% each week, you know, that just makes
01:00:11
such a a difference over a year, over
01:00:13
two years, over five years.
01:00:15
>> Yeah. Where does that come from? That um
01:00:19
that insatiable appetite for personal
01:00:21
growth.
01:00:22
>> Yeah. Maybe I didn't feel good enough
01:00:24
when I was a young kid. You know, I
01:00:25
think every everyone has stuff that they
01:00:27
they kind of work through and um but
01:00:30
yeah, again, you know, science fiction
01:00:34
has that sort of creativity. Uh it kind
01:00:36
of opens different doors that that you
01:00:39
wouldn't normally think about.
01:00:40
>> Uh yeah, I think we all all have our
01:00:43
kind of baggage of, you know, growing up
01:00:45
and and the things that that we have.
01:00:48
So, yeah, I think if you can try to
01:00:49
channel that into some sort of positive
01:00:52
creative way.
01:00:53
>> Uh so, yeah. I'm feeling pretty pretty
01:00:55
good where I am now and I feel like I
01:00:58
have made a huge huge improvement, a
01:01:00
huge step up and just trying to live the
01:01:02
best life that that you can leave, you
01:01:04
know, be the best version of you that
01:01:06
that you can be.
01:01:09
>> Was there anything in your um in your
01:01:11
early years to suggest that you'd have
01:01:12
the entrepreneurial gene?
01:01:15
>> Did your parents just have normal jobs
01:01:16
or were they was they did they own
01:01:19
businesses or
01:01:20
>> Yeah. Um, my dad was a a welder
01:01:24
>> and my mother was a stay at home mom and
01:01:26
uh yeah, pretty pretty uh average kind
01:01:29
of Kiwi background. And I started
01:01:31
working at a a vegetable market garden
01:01:35
uh company when I was uh yeah about yeah
01:01:38
12 13. And that sort of taught me the
01:01:41
value of hard work. And we had a pretty
01:01:42
tough boss and he taught me some pretty
01:01:44
important lessons there. And uh yeah it
01:01:47
was again that was that was a great
01:01:49
opportunity for me to to learn a lot.
01:01:51
Drove tractors and
01:01:53
>> did lots of cool stuff there.
01:01:54
>> Uh but you know learned the value of
01:01:56
hard work as well.
01:01:59
you you and all your your your
01:02:00
classmates, your entire school role at
01:02:02
primary school, intermediate or
01:02:03
secondary school, like in a lineup, no
01:02:05
one would have picked you to be the guy,
01:02:06
right? The the guy that went to space,
01:02:08
the the guy that set up this
01:02:09
multi-million dollar internet company,
01:02:11
the guy that co-founded Rocket Lab, like
01:02:14
you've done some impressive stuff. There
01:02:16
was there was nothing um to suggest that
01:02:18
you'd be that guy.
01:02:20
>> Yeah, I guess I'm probably like the
01:02:21
Forest Gump of the aerospace industry in
01:02:23
New Zealand. I just sort of turned up in
01:02:25
the right places.
01:02:26
>> Oh, no. You're being very humble. You've
01:02:28
mentioned running a couple of times.
01:02:29
Yeah. What role does running play in
01:02:30
your life?
01:02:32
>> Yeah, I I find that just gives me an
01:02:35
amazing outlet where I can kind of
01:02:37
meditate and you get you get into that
01:02:40
rhythm. I mean, you've obviously got got
01:02:41
that sensation as well where you you
01:02:43
just feel like you're cruising along and
01:02:46
uh sometimes you feel like you're flying
01:02:47
and it's just effortless, you know, when
01:02:49
you can build up to that marathon
01:02:50
fitness uh when everything's just so
01:02:53
easy. I mean obviously there are other
01:02:55
times when it's brutal
01:02:57
and you know every step is is quite
01:03:00
painful. Um but there's also a lot of
01:03:03
those KS where you know if you're in
01:03:05
that rhythm it it all feels so
01:03:07
effortless and so I guess I'm I'm always
01:03:09
sort of chasing after that feeling you
01:03:11
know you know being being marathon fit.
01:03:13
I mean I know a lot of people do ultras
01:03:15
you know head off to them people that do
01:03:18
ultramarathons. I mean that that's not
01:03:19
my thing. I'm quite happy uh to to have
01:03:23
the the marathon as my kind of apex goal
01:03:25
each year. Um but yeah, there's just
01:03:28
something about it I just love.
01:03:31
>> And I've been really getting into
01:03:32
strength training and and gym work uh
01:03:35
lately and I think you know that's
01:03:36
that's a lot of fun as well and I think
01:03:38
it actually helps a lot in the running.
01:03:39
I don't know if you do a lot of gym work
01:03:40
but um there's a few years I sort of
01:03:42
went off the boil on that and now I've
01:03:44
come back on to it has has helped me a
01:03:46
lot.
01:03:47
>> Oh Mark, I'm exactly the same. during
01:03:48
the during the pandemic when the gym was
01:03:50
shut, I realized, well, actually, this
01:03:52
is perfect because I don't like doing
01:03:54
the strength and conditioning and I like
01:03:55
running so I can keep running and drop
01:03:57
the stuff I don't like. And then um
01:03:58
that's when my knee issue started.
01:04:00
>> Yeah.
01:04:00
>> Um yeah, the strength and conditioning
01:04:02
training it gives you your stability
01:04:04
around the joints and the tendons and
01:04:06
muscles um to keep you running.
01:04:08
>> Um
01:04:09
>> yeah, you're so right. Some sometimes,
01:04:11
you know, to use an analogy that you'd
01:04:13
understand, sometimes when you're
01:04:14
running, it feels like you're in a
01:04:16
rocket. Then other times it just feels
01:04:17
like you you're trying to run in a space
01:04:19
suit. I guess
01:04:20
>> that's right.
01:04:21
>> It's hard. Do you There's There's a term
01:04:23
nowadays called raw dogging, which
01:04:25
basically means doing it without music
01:04:26
or without headphones. Do you do you
01:04:28
listen to anything when you run or do
01:04:30
you just are you in your own thoughts?
01:04:31
>> I listen to your podcast, Dom.
01:04:33
>> Do you?
01:04:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I love podcasts, ebooks.
01:04:36
Uh I I love sort of history books and uh
01:04:39
biographies, autobiographies, adventure
01:04:41
kind of things like that.
01:04:43
>> Uh so yeah, and you know, a bit bit of
01:04:46
music at the end to kind of get get you
01:04:47
going a little bit at the end to help
01:04:48
help you get over the finish line.
01:04:50
Actually, I was doing the Oakland
01:04:51
marathon here once and there was a
01:04:52
there's a real brutal moment. We'd sort
01:04:54
of gone over the bridge and we got to
01:04:55
the very end and then we were just
01:04:57
heading back and I think it's around the
01:04:59
30k mark, I think. Is it round about
01:05:00
there? And um this guy had been running
01:05:03
next to me uh for for about 5 10ks. He
01:05:06
was just sort of running behind me. And
01:05:09
uh he was about in his 20s and I think
01:05:11
you know I must have been in my my 40s.
01:05:13
And he kind of said uh you know how's it
01:05:16
going? I said I'm pretty good. And I
01:05:17
said how many marathons you done? And he
01:05:19
said none. I've never run more than 10k.
01:05:22
And he just sort of took off at the 30k
01:05:24
mark and kept on going. I don't know if
01:05:26
if he was playing mind games on me, but
01:05:28
uh that was like, "Oh my god, I'm
01:05:30
hurting so bad here." And uh yeah,
01:05:33
here's this guy just just just took off.
01:05:35
>> Yeah. Well, there's a there's a saying
01:05:36
in marathon running that like it doesn't
01:05:37
start until the 30k mark.
01:05:39
>> Exactly.
01:05:40
>> And you look around and even people that
01:05:41
are looking good at that point, you know
01:05:42
that everyone's in their own sort of
01:05:43
hurt, even people that don't show it.
01:05:45
How many Yeah. How many How many full
01:05:46
marathons have you done?
01:05:48
>> Not sure, but yeah, I've done
01:05:49
>> Oh, like heaps.
01:05:50
>> Well, Oakland, Wellington, Deneden,
01:05:53
Queenstown, a few Christ Churches. Um,
01:05:56
yeah. So, yeah, not not quite sure how
01:05:58
many, but probably less than 10.
01:06:01
>> Awesome.
01:06:03
Um,
01:06:06
what's the biggest adversity you've gone
01:06:08
through?
01:06:11
>> We'll end with some deep ones.
01:06:12
>> Okay. I'm just like getting to the age
01:06:15
of 50's um privilege that you know, you
01:06:18
you I'm sure you've got some friends
01:06:20
that have dropped off along the way and
01:06:21
I know I have as well. So, one thing
01:06:23
I've realized is that you don't uh get
01:06:25
to the privilege of being in your 50s
01:06:26
without going through some sort of
01:06:28
adversity.
01:06:30
>> Yeah. I mean, I think you there's times
01:06:32
where I probably put a bit too much
01:06:33
effort into my business and not enough
01:06:35
onto the personal relationships and, you
01:06:38
know, not not having the patience uh
01:06:40
that I needed in those personal
01:06:42
relationships. And I I think that sort
01:06:43
of taugh taught me a lot. Um so, yeah, I
01:06:47
don't know. I I guess I try and focus on
01:06:49
the positives because if you just keep
01:06:50
thinking about all the stuff that has
01:06:53
gone wrong, it kind of leaves you in a
01:06:56
kind of negative headsp space. So I
01:06:57
think it's healthier for me to just try
01:07:00
and focus on where I'm going, how to
01:07:02
keep improving uh and and focus on those
01:07:04
positives. But yeah, there have been
01:07:06
times when maybe I've sort of gotten
01:07:07
into a bit of a loop about some of those
01:07:09
frustrations or things that I perceived
01:07:11
haven't actually gone well. But then 5
01:07:14
10 years later, you look back at it and
01:07:15
go actually that really helped you do XY
01:07:18
Z.
01:07:20
>> So yeah, I've kind of learned to try not
01:07:23
to focus on on the negatives too much.
01:07:25
Try and learn from them. Uh but not not
01:07:27
to dwell on them.
01:07:28
>> Yeah. I love that. That's really good
01:07:29
advice. Are you Are you on your first
01:07:31
marriage?
01:07:32
>> Yes.
01:07:33
>> Yeah. Okay. So it's not like Yeah. It's
01:07:35
not like Yeah. It's not like you've got
01:07:37
a a trail of failed marriages behind you
01:07:39
or anything like that. It's it's it's
01:07:41
hard because there is Yeah. There's 24
01:07:43
hours in the day regardless of who you
01:07:44
are and it's like where you choose to
01:07:46
spend that time and it is hard if you're
01:07:47
trying to build something I guess to you
01:07:50
keep all those plates spinning at once.
01:07:52
>> Exactly.
01:07:54
>> What would you say your best and worst
01:07:55
habits are?
01:07:57
>> Ah best habits. Um, yeah. Well, I think
01:08:00
I just I just have a kind of weekly
01:08:02
ritual which works pretty well for me. I
01:08:04
I spent quite a bit of time trying to
01:08:07
get it working, you know, from, you
01:08:09
know, getting up in the morning to the
01:08:11
end of the day just making sure I
01:08:12
squeeze all the different things in
01:08:14
there that I need to. Um, yeah, worst
01:08:18
habit. I mean, probably I mean, it can
01:08:21
be tricky sometimes. there are so many
01:08:23
kind of temptations and and you want to
01:08:26
uh go and have a bit of a party night or
01:08:28
whatever. Uh and you know I I think
01:08:32
trying to stick to the ritual which you
01:08:34
know is going to be healthier for you
01:08:35
long term.
01:08:36
>> Uh but it's easy when you've got a
01:08:39
networking kind of event and people say
01:08:41
oh come out for a drink and uh yeah in
01:08:44
the past I probably would have said yes
01:08:46
too many times. Uh these days I've I've
01:08:49
done pretty well suppressing a lot of
01:08:51
that. Um but uh yeah, then again, you
01:08:54
know, you go out have have some of those
01:08:56
big nights and you know, you get great
01:08:59
experiences and and make really great
01:09:00
connections.
01:09:01
>> Uh so it's it's kind of a a tricky one,
01:09:04
but um
01:09:06
>> yeah.
01:09:06
>> What's your relationship like with
01:09:07
alcohol? You much of a drinker?
01:09:10
>> Well, I'll try and limit it to a couple
01:09:12
of glasses a night on a Tuesday and a
01:09:16
and a Friday.
01:09:17
>> Um but yeah,
01:09:18
>> they are very random nights of the week.
01:09:20
Why do Why Tuesday and most people sort
01:09:23
of go your week nights and then weekend
01:09:25
Tuesday and Friday. What is that
01:09:27
deliberate? So you got a separation
01:09:28
between them for
01:09:29
>> Yeah. Just sort of breaks things up and
01:09:30
you I find you know particularly when
01:09:32
you're in that sort of marathon zone it
01:09:35
really interrupts your training then the
01:09:37
next days. Um and again if I don't
01:09:40
designate a day then it can easily slip
01:09:42
over and it's like you're doing
01:09:43
Wednesday and Thursday and um yeah I
01:09:46
just find Friday end of the week is
01:09:48
pretty good. uh and sort of Tuesday tend
01:09:51
to, you know, just have a bit of a watch
01:09:53
a series on Netflix or whatever it is
01:09:56
>> and it's it can be just quite a relaxing
01:09:58
way to start the week as well.
01:09:59
>> Yeah. Oh, I like that. Thanks for
01:10:01
sharing. Yeah. As I've got um as I've
01:10:04
got older, it's there's things I want to
01:10:06
do and alcohol just Yeah. It's it's hard
01:10:08
it's hard to continue my drinking habit
01:10:11
and get the things done that I want to
01:10:12
get done. So, alcohol has had to take a
01:10:15
spot on the back burner a little bit for
01:10:16
me.
01:10:17
>> Yeah. Well, yeah. I think ideally I sort
01:10:19
of stick to the Tuesday and Friday. I
01:10:20
mean sometimes it it sloshes over to
01:10:23
other days, but you know that's that's
01:10:25
kind of my ideal week. And if you kind
01:10:27
of go into the week knowing that's what
01:10:29
your goal is. If you don't have a goal
01:10:31
uh in those areas which which can start
01:10:34
flowing over into other areas then yeah
01:10:36
if you don't have that goal then some
01:10:38
sometimes you know you're doing more
01:10:40
than what you want to do.
01:10:42
>> Is there a what if that keeps you up at
01:10:44
night?
01:10:46
>> No. No,
01:10:47
>> no. I sleep pretty well.
01:10:49
>> Yeah. Um, is there a mistake you wish
01:10:51
you could go back and correct?
01:10:53
>> Uh, I mean, yeah, I think there's
01:10:55
there's a a dozen things, you know, I
01:10:57
look back on that I' I'd uh I'd want to
01:11:00
second guess, but it's kind of whatever
01:11:04
those decisions were, whatever happened
01:11:06
kind of led you to where you are now.
01:11:08
>> So, I think it's uh it's kind of hard.
01:11:11
It's it's like that sort of th those uh
01:11:14
time uh timeline kind of movies where
01:11:18
you go back and if you do alter
01:11:20
something then it can have profound
01:11:21
consequences.
01:11:23
>> So yeah,
01:11:23
>> I know what you Yeah. Butterfly Effect
01:11:25
is one of those movies and Sliding
01:11:26
Doors. Yeah,
01:11:27
>> it's another one.
01:11:28
>> Yeah.
01:11:29
>> Yeah. Everything sort of unravels or
01:11:30
unfolds in life the way it's supposed
01:11:32
to. E sort of happens for a reason even
01:11:34
though it doesn't always seem like that
01:11:35
at the time.
01:11:36
>> Yeah. So yeah, I'm I'm, you know,
01:11:38
touchwood. things are going pretty well
01:11:40
where they're at and you know, you just
01:11:42
got to take each day as it comes because
01:11:43
you know, anything can happen tomorrow.
01:11:46
>> Uh so you just got to put your best foot
01:11:47
forward and try and deal with it as as
01:11:49
best you can and you know, whoever you
01:11:51
are on that day, whatever skills, habits
01:11:54
you you developed, um you just got to
01:11:56
hope uh you make the right decision.
01:11:59
>> What are you most afraid of?
01:12:02
Uh yeah, again I don't really think
01:12:04
about that too much, but I mean
01:12:05
obviously you know there's things I'm
01:12:07
concerned about like you know climate
01:12:09
change and the world political uh real
01:12:12
there's a lot of stuff going on which is
01:12:14
like I feel so sorry for my kids you
01:12:16
know you know what are we leaving them
01:12:18
you know uh so yeah I I think as a
01:12:23
society here in New Zealand there's a
01:12:24
lot more that we can do you know as a
01:12:26
citizen of the world there's a lot more
01:12:27
that we can do and you know that's one
01:12:29
of the reasons with key airspace where
01:12:31
we're focused on providing solutions.
01:12:34
They're going to help humanity with
01:12:36
environmental monitoring, disaster
01:12:38
response. You know, that that really
01:12:39
motivates me. But at the same time,
01:12:42
>> you know, we are sort of moving into an
01:12:44
age where the the power dynamic has come
01:12:47
into play a lot more with country
01:12:49
interactions and I think that's going to
01:12:51
keep increasing uh the way that that
01:12:54
we're seeing things pan out. So yeah,
01:12:59
hopefully
01:13:00
uh the you know these countries, these
01:13:03
leaders can get together and and and
01:13:05
stop the direction that it's going in.
01:13:08
>> Um but if not, yeah, I think we're going
01:13:10
to be in for a bumpy decade ahead of us.
01:13:15
>> It's an interesting time, isn't it?
01:13:17
>> It is.
01:13:19
[Music]
01:13:21
>> Um what are your future goals?
01:13:24
>> Yeah. Well, at a key aerospace, you
01:13:26
know, the the goal there is to build a
01:13:29
fleet of these aircraft and and have
01:13:31
these aircraft flying all around the
01:13:33
Pacific, all around the world. I think
01:13:35
that'll be just a super cool concept and
01:13:38
to have that based in New Zealand and
01:13:40
Australia. Uh so you know as as a
01:13:43
company I think that's got some really
01:13:45
exciting potential
01:13:47
and you know I'm just going to really
01:13:48
enjoy the journey of being part of that
01:13:52
>> and yeah I mean but beyond beyond that
01:13:54
you know do do a few more few more trips
01:13:57
and see see a bit of the world and
01:13:59
>> trips as to other countries or to
01:14:02
galaxies or
01:14:03
>> Yeah. Well you got you yeah it's like
01:14:06
you're not you're not one and done e
01:14:08
like you you you desperately want to get
01:14:09
back up there. I can tell
01:14:11
>> it's got this look in your eye.
01:14:13
>> Yeah. I mean, I'd love to get to orbit
01:14:14
one day, but you know, that's that's a
01:14:16
long shot and uh yeah, we'll see. We'll
01:14:18
see what happens. But yeah, I've got a
01:14:20
few few little things that are on the
01:14:22
back burner and I'll just sort of try
01:14:24
and line things up and we'll see what
01:14:26
happens.
01:14:28
>> Well, there's still plenty of time. As
01:14:30
long as you're fit and healthy, eh,
01:14:31
plenty of time.
01:14:32
>> Yeah. You know, I think, you know, that
01:14:34
that's one thing I'm really surprised
01:14:36
about. A lot of people in their 50s,
01:14:38
Dom, you probably see a lot of your
01:14:39
friends and and they've kind of
01:14:41
>> uh yeah, they're they're in that kind of
01:14:43
party mode. Uh and you know, that's
01:14:46
great, but yeah, you've really got to
01:14:48
look after your health and you know,
01:14:50
like we didn't want to go to the gym,
01:14:52
but we realized, hey, it is it's it's
01:14:54
better outcomes if we do.
01:14:55
>> Uh and you know, eat trying to eat
01:14:57
right.
01:14:58
>> Uh you know, you get you you do get a
01:15:00
lot of these sort of temptations in in
01:15:01
modern society where it's probably
01:15:03
pulling you in the wrong direction. M.
01:15:05
>> So, I think yeah, really really just
01:15:07
trying to to have a a healthy vehicle
01:15:10
>> to take you around is is pretty
01:15:11
important.
01:15:12
>> Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I I got friends that
01:15:14
are similar to age to us and they're
01:15:16
sort of like um like tapering off, like
01:15:18
winding down.
01:15:19
>> Yeah.
01:15:19
>> And I'm thinking it's like a sports
01:15:21
game. I'm just in the second half, baby.
01:15:23
I'm just getting started. There's still
01:15:25
[ __ ] to be done.
01:15:26
>> Yeah.
01:15:26
>> Yeah.
01:15:26
>> And there's a whole lot of really cool
01:15:28
technology that's been develop developed
01:15:30
as well, you know. Uh, you know, I
01:15:32
remember when I uh went to a optometrist
01:15:35
when I was a kid and I think I must have
01:15:37
been about 10 years old or something
01:15:38
like that and the doctor she was I she I
01:15:42
don't know if she approached it the
01:15:43
right way but she basically said look
01:15:44
Mark you're going to be wearing glasses
01:15:46
for the rest of your life and I I don't
01:15:48
know why I cried and uh I thought man
01:15:50
that sucks and you know it really
01:15:52
affected me but then you know uh five
01:15:54
years ago I got laser eye surgery and
01:15:56
now I've got fantastic vision
01:15:59
>> uh and I just think we are lucky that we
01:16:01
live in this age of technology where
01:16:02
there's all this really cool stuff
01:16:04
that's coming down the pipe
01:16:06
>> and the next 10 20 years, you know,
01:16:08
stuff that used to be an issue, you
01:16:10
know, there are going to be solutions
01:16:11
there.
01:16:13
>> Well, you can even see in the health
01:16:14
sector like um outcomes with cancer
01:16:16
diagnosis, you know, it's no longer the
01:16:18
the death sentence it was potentially
01:16:20
when we were younger, you know, now the
01:16:21
outcomes are often quite good for
01:16:23
people.
01:16:24
>> Exactly.
01:16:24
>> Yeah. Oh, one thing we didn't talk about
01:16:26
is um you're president as well of
01:16:28
Aerospace New Zealand. What what does
01:16:29
that role mean?
01:16:30
>> Yeah. Well, 2018 was also the time that
01:16:33
we started Key Aerospace, but uh also I
01:16:37
started uh working with a group of
01:16:39
people in Canterbury about developing uh
01:16:43
an aerospace industry body and that kind
01:16:45
of developed into a national aerospace
01:16:49
uh body which is focused on advanced
01:16:51
aviation and space. So essentially we
01:16:54
all kind of work together you know
01:16:55
helping to support each other uh helping
01:16:58
to you know talk to the government with
01:16:59
one voice saying hey this is this is
01:17:01
what we need as a as an aerospace
01:17:03
ecosystem
01:17:05
and uh yeah we have a regular meetups so
01:17:07
I've got one in Oakland tonight uh and
01:17:09
also we've got our aerospace summit
01:17:11
coming up on October 7th and October 8th
01:17:14
in Christ Church and so yeah essentially
01:17:16
we get most of the aerospace
01:17:19
participants in New Zealand together
01:17:21
connecting with each
01:17:22
We've got delegations coming from
01:17:24
numerous countries around the world. Uh
01:17:26
we've got government agencies,
01:17:28
academics. So we basically get everyone
01:17:30
together exchanging ideas, talking about
01:17:33
new projects, helping to create new
01:17:35
projects.
01:17:36
>> Uh so yeah, it's just a it's a really
01:17:38
exciting industry. We've got some really
01:17:40
cool speakers. Got someone coming from
01:17:42
Blue Origin uh talk talking about what
01:17:45
they're doing, what their plans are, and
01:17:46
a whole lot of other super cool
01:17:48
companies. And I think it really
01:17:49
inspires people in the industry to see
01:17:52
what what's possible and helps them kind
01:17:54
of go up to the next level as well.
01:17:57
>> What's it like being in in that room or
01:17:59
that environment? And um just knowing in
01:18:00
the back of your mind that you're the
01:18:02
only person that's been to space.
01:18:04
>> Uh well, I think there are actually
01:18:06
astronauts that have been there and so
01:18:08
that wouldn't that wouldn't necessarily
01:18:10
be be the case, but I mean I kind of
01:18:12
like to think that actually I know that
01:18:14
a lot of these people will be going to
01:18:15
space in the next 10 years. You know,
01:18:17
that that's what really excites me. I
01:18:18
think uh more people need to kind of see
01:18:22
uh the the context of you know where the
01:18:25
world is in the solar system and I think
01:18:27
that'll help humanity move in the right
01:18:29
direction.
01:18:30
>> Yeah. I love something you you said
01:18:31
earlier in the podcast where you you
01:18:33
talked about people not thinking big
01:18:34
enough.
01:18:35
>> Yeah. I really love that. That's going
01:18:37
to stick with me.
01:18:38
>> Yeah.
01:18:39
>> Um what are three words that your family
01:18:41
and friends would use to describe you?
01:18:42
>> Oh Jesus. I don't know.
01:18:46
>> You're hating this.
01:18:48
Yeah. Yeah. Um, can I text you back on
01:18:51
that one?
01:18:52
>> Yeah. No. No. I Okay. Or three words
01:18:55
that you that you'd like people to use
01:18:56
to describe you like like you're
01:18:58
obviously like driven and super focused.
01:19:01
Um,
01:19:03
yeah. Like just from sitting with you
01:19:04
for the last hour, 20 minutes, I could
01:19:06
probably come up with some, but you
01:19:07
could probably come up with some better
01:19:08
ones, I reckon.
01:19:09
>> Yeah. Well, it depends on the context.
01:19:10
You know, I when I play tennis, I have
01:19:12
good days and bad days. And sometimes I
01:19:14
get a bit grumpy at myself for not not
01:19:17
getting my shots. Uh, and yeah, I mean,
01:19:21
I know there's different everyone wears
01:19:23
different hats, so I don't know. It
01:19:25
probably depends on on what what friends
01:19:27
uh you're talking to.
01:19:29
>> Yeah. Are you proud of yourself?
01:19:31
>> Yeah, I I am. I'm proud to, you know,
01:19:33
where where I've got to and there's a
01:19:34
lot more that I I want to achieve as
01:19:36
well. But yeah, again, I come from
01:19:38
pretty pretty humble beginnings and uh
01:19:40
there was all sorts of other scenarios.
01:19:43
Actually, my probably my first kind of
01:19:45
runin with the uh with the aviation
01:19:48
industry uh was when I uh had a had a
01:19:53
night out with my friend and uh
01:19:55
basically I think we we were just seen
01:19:56
the Karate Kid movie or something and I
01:19:58
ended up doing a spin kick and broke a
01:20:01
big window at Continental Airlines. And
01:20:05
so this big glass window broke and I
01:20:08
remember seeing the Continental Airlines
01:20:09
plane, you know, like got the model
01:20:10
airplane there and the and it broke and
01:20:13
I thought, "Oh man." And so we ran away
01:20:15
uh but ended up people saw us running
01:20:17
away and we're on the last bus home back
01:20:20
out to the beach where I was living and
01:20:22
the cops came on the bus uh took me off
01:20:24
the bus and uh spent the the night in
01:20:27
the cells there and uh yeah that that
01:20:31
was kind of a real a real turning point
01:20:33
for me where I realized I could have
01:20:35
gone into a whole different direction in
01:20:37
my life if I had to keep you know doing
01:20:39
that stu stupid stuff that I was doing.
01:20:42
And again that sort of sliding doors
01:20:43
type scenario, you know, you have
01:20:45
choices every day and you can either,
01:20:47
you know, continue down that road and,
01:20:49
you know, I was there with my hands
01:20:51
behind the bars when I was about, I
01:20:53
don't know, 16, 17 or whatever and
01:20:56
thinking, [ __ ] this is this this could
01:20:58
be me and this this is not fun. Uh, so
01:21:02
yeah, sometimes you get those sort of
01:21:03
wakeup calls uh which just just really
01:21:06
push you in the right direction.
01:21:08
16, 17. That feels a bit old to be doing
01:21:10
Ralph Machio karate kicks on the
01:21:14
Who picked you up? Did you have to call
01:21:15
your parents to
01:21:17
>> Yeah. And I think they were out at a at
01:21:19
a party that night and so they didn't
01:21:21
think I the cops didn't think I gave
01:21:22
them the right number. And uh yeah, the
01:21:24
next morning when they came in, uh yeah,
01:21:27
it was bit awkward.
01:21:28
>> Yeah. Were you in big trouble or was it
01:21:30
one of those situations where you're at
01:21:31
that age where they're like, "Mark,
01:21:33
we're not mad, we're just disappointed."
01:21:35
Uh yeah, I mean that yeah, I think they
01:21:37
they handled it pretty well in the end.
01:21:39
Um but uh yeah, no, it really sort of
01:21:43
scared me straight.
01:21:46
>> One one night in jail will do that.
01:21:47
Yeah,
01:21:48
>> I reckon 10 minutes incarceration would
01:21:50
would be enough for me to be scared
01:21:52
straight. Oh, what what a story to end
01:21:53
with. Thanks for sharing that. That was
01:21:55
great.
01:21:56
>> Hey, um this has been really enjoyable
01:21:57
today. Um yeah, you've been on my radar
01:22:00
for a long time and I'm pleased we
01:22:01
finally finally connected. I I get the
01:22:04
sense you're not a man that's um overly
01:22:07
comfortable like talking about yourself
01:22:08
and your various achievements. So, I
01:22:10
appreciate you being here today.
01:22:12
>> Yeah. Well, thanks thanks for asking me
01:22:14
and u yeah I think you know one of the
01:22:16
key reasons is I I really want to share
01:22:18
with people that we've got this amazing
01:22:20
aerospace industry that's emerging in
01:22:22
New Zealand and I I really hope New
01:22:24
Zealand gets behind it and supports the
01:22:26
great work that that we can be doing.
01:22:28
And uh yeah, I mean you look back all
01:22:31
all of our forefathers have come from a
01:22:34
long way away to to be here in New
01:22:36
Zealand. And I think it's in our DNA to
01:22:38
kind of explore and I think a lot of
01:22:40
Kiwis a lot of Kiwis are going to be
01:22:42
exploring the solar system. So I think
01:22:45
the next hundred years are going to be
01:22:47
pretty exciting.
01:22:49
>> Mark Rocket, thank you for coming on my
01:22:51
podcast.
01:22:52
>> Thank you.
