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Marie is a very loving person. She had a heart of gold. What happened to this woman?
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My job is to be a truth teller and seek out the truth. I wanted to solve it. She said she left to do something that she always wanted to do.
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She didn't want us to try to stop her. I go, I know, I probably watch a lot of Law & Order,
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but I have this really gut feeling. feeling because I was a mom. I just knew that she didn't leave on her own. There was no way
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she left that baby. They had taken her in. They were helping her out. They were living,
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the three of them, in a strange sort of thing. Absolutely. A very amorous, romantic, wild
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relationship. It was lustful. Oh my goodness. It hit me hard. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
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come to Jesus moment. It was, yeah. I was scared to death. How do you catch a dancing sprite? You put her in a bottle? Can you package the joy she brings?
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Can you keep it when she goes? She was like a gravitational pull. Her name was Marie.
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Marie Carlson. She was magnetic. When she was happy, she could make the whole world sing.
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Live life to the fullest is what Marie would tell me. You know, you might not have tomorrow.
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And so she offered herself, her goodness, gave her vulnerable heart, and stored her secrets until what happened.
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But she was always that way, was Marie, from the time of the very first secret in her life.
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She was born in the Philippines to a single mother, then taken in by the family of an American serviceman.
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And it was years later when she learned that kind serviceman was actually her father,
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which meant that Esther Bridges, the best friend she grew up with, was also her sister.
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Who was that like to find out that she is? I was happy. Actually, your sister. I was really happy because I always thought she was since we were little girls.
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When they got older, Esther and Marie moved to Florida and lived together. The location, ideal.
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We chose an apartment that was behind a karaoke club so that we could just go there all the time like we were stars.
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And she wore pink. Always pink. It was her. It was her personality. It's full of life.
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And always trying to perk up everyone else with her favorite word, beautiful. It's like, oh, she's so beautiful.
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You know, I want to be like her. But she always told me, no, you are beautiful. She loved that word.
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Kay Barber was like a mother to Marie. Hers, the second family to take Marie in when she was 18 and struggling.
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Marie's nickname that I gave her was Rosie because she was always just, you know, peachy and rosy and happy.
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Like she was when she met Jeff Carlson. And he fell hard. And it was like instant.
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So they married and they had a daughter named Paris. And they thought their life together would be grand.
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Marie got a college degree in criminal justice, became a deputy sheriff. Her ultimate goal was to try to get into the FBI.
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But then for all the love between them, there were issues. Jeff learned there were more secrets.
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That as a girl, Marie had been sexually assaulted. And sometimes her love and joy were chased into a darker place.
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The biggest issue was she didn't love herself. They tried, but the marriage didn't last.
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And after that, Marie drifted a little. Jobs fell through. She had to move frequently.
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Jeff suggested Paris, then three, would have a more stable life with him. She fought it initially, but she agreed that it was probably for the best.
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So Paris was with me. Though she saw Paris often and called all the time. And then Marie finally found what her vulnerable loving soul seemed to need.
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I was actually happy for her because she found God. Marie had found a spiritual home at the Calvary Emerald Coast Church.
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It was hardly a fancy cathedral placed within a strip mall. But fancy wasn't the point. Salvation was.
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Here, finally, Marie felt right. And Jesus is saying, you know what? You're missing out.
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The pastor was a charismatic man named James Flanders, who preached the Bible four square, preached in jeans and sneakers,
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live-streamed and YouTubed his sermons. It was a very happening place. Jason Anderson was the youth pastor.
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Didn't fall asleep listening to his sermons. But more than that, the pastor and his wife, James and Tanya Flanders,
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were known for their big hearts, their charity. And that's when, for a third time, a family took in Marie.
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She's saying that she was there until she got on her feet. But a whole year went by.
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And then, what was coming couldn't be hidden. The story floating around, there had been an abusive boyfriend
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who abandoned her and left her pregnant. And in July 2011, Marie gave birth to a baby girl
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and named her Grace. The pastor and his wife took care of both of them. It was explained to me that they were helping her out,
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that she was kind of down on her luck. She was, by all appearances, saved, spiritually by faith and practically by the pastor and his wife So imagine the surprise when a strange group text message popped up on the phones of her family and friends
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Can you still remember the words of that mass text? She said that yesterday she left Fort Walton Beach
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to do something that she always wanted to do. She didn't want us to try to stop her.
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Her last words was, I love and appreciate you all. But the biggest surprise, Marie did not take her three-month-old baby.
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She left Grace behind with the pastor and his wife. And right away, her sister, Esther, sensed that something wasn't right.
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She called her family. I go, I know, I probably watch a lot of Law and Order, but can you find out what's going on?
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Because I have this really gut feeling. She's like, oh, you watch too many of those kind of shows.
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I'm like, no, this is different. It was the fall of 2011, the very same time that a detective named Nestle Suey Moore became a mother.
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A fact which, as you will see, may have made all the difference. You get a better understanding of what it's like to love somebody to the end of the world and back.
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It was almost like fate intended to tie these two together in a mystery of love and lies and loss.
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Just where had Marie Carlson gone? The investigators said, we're going to open a case, which surprised me.
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The antenna must have gone up, huh? The antennas did go up. I just knew that she didn't leave on her own.
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There was no way she left that baby. Marie Carlson had notified family and friends she was leaving Fort Walton Beach,
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and nobody could figure out why or where she went. And this was very strange. She left her three-month-old baby in the care of her pastor, James Flanders, and his wife, Tanya.
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And not her family. Not the woman she looked to as a mother figure, Kay Barber. It was heartbreaking.
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It was heartbreaking. Marie's ex-husband, Jeff Carlson, got the text, too. Didn't make sense to him that she'd leave without calling her 7-year-old daughter, Paris.
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Kay called Jeff and said he should file a report. And she said, I don't know what's going on, but I think something happened.
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And I said, yeah, I agree with you. And then Jeff called the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office to report Marie missing.
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The investigator said, we're going to open a case, an investigation on this. Which surprised me, because she's an adult.
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She could have just left. Because Marie was adventurous. She liked to travel. And when the mood struck her, sometimes she just took off for a few days on some whim.
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But something seemed different this time. She would have never have left without talking to me about it and talking to Paris.
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She'd been gone a week when the sheriff asked Detective Keith Motz to look into it.
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That text message, something off, said her family. This doesn't sound like Marie.
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So when you got that one, the antenna must have gone up, huh? The antennas did go up.
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Detective Nestle Suey Moore didn't hear about the case then because... I was on maternity leave.
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Correct. And I came back two weeks after she was initially reported missing. And that's when Nestle heard from other detectives about the case Keith was working on.
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Poor Keith. Had no idea that I was going to come bully my way into that investigation.
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And why did you want to bully your way into the investigation? I think the connection of just having a child, I just knew that she didn't leave on her own.
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So here they were, partners. The young detective who happened to be a brand new mother.
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And the veteran who'd seen just about everything. and who soon learned from friends and family that Marie was deeply attached to both her daughters.
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She had a heart of gold and loved her Paris more than anything in the world. But what happened in her life?
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And how did she end up with another baby? From Esther, the detectives learned about the divorce and how Marie had lost her job
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and how the pastor and his wife offered her a place to stay. But the questions about baby Grace?
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Asta said her relationship with Marie was always supportive and not judgmental, and when Marie didn't tell her who the father was, she didn't push the subject.
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I've never questioned her because Marie will tell me in her own time if she wants to tell me.
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I've learned with my sister I never pry. But that was the job of the detectives, Nestle and Keith, to pry and hopefully to find Marie.
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One of their first calls was on her church pastor, James Flanders, and his wife.
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Impressive guy, they discovered. James Flanders. What was he like? Very charismatic. I would say he was good at his job.
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I wonder what it would be like to listen to him preach. You can YouTube him. Yes, you can.
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We all, at times, forget the promises of God's word. The pastor grew the Calvary Emerald Coast Church from scratch,
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spread it through YouTube, and by the time Marie began attending, every service filled up.
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They were a tight-knit family, that church. And now, with Marie gone, they were caring for little Grace.
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So, did the Flanders have any idea what happened to Marie? Perhaps they knew who the father was,
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and where that abusive boyfriend might be found and oh yes there was a story all right They noticed a downward spiral
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In her behavior. In her behavior. Questions mount and leads are running out. Was time running out too?
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This case for sure was an investigator's worst nightmare. The Calvary Emerald Coast Church of Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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was far more than just a place to gather on a Sunday morning. Led by Pastor James Flanders and his wife Tanya,
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this place was a beacon of charity too. The pastor and his church sacrificed their own needs
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to send money to the victims of Katrina. And when Marie Carlson needed help, they took her in too.
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That's what pastors do for their congregation. But now? I'm left with a missing person who's just vanished off this earth.
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A week and a half after Marie vanished or drove away or whatever she did, the detectives went calling on the Flanders,
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who said they fully expected Marie would return soon. This wasn't the first time she took spur-of-the-moment trips, they said.
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Never to the point where she had to be reported to law enforcement missing, though.
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She came back. Although the Flanders told detectives they were quite worried about Marie's state of mind.
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They noticed a downward spiral. Like she was going into a depression or something.
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She might be going into a depression state, yes. The thing was, said the pastor and his wife, Marie could have wild mood swings.
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They knew she had a diagnosed mood disorder. Did they tell you that she was bipolar?
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Yes. They told me she was bipolar, she had been taking medication, and was off of her medication, probably because of her giving birth to the child.
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But there was another prescription bottle, too. And then they also showed us a bottle that was empty,
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you know, that maybe alluding to the fact that she had taken medication and was going to use it to hurt herself.
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The day she left, James told detectives he was so worried about her state of mind,
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he stayed home from work to keep an eye on her. James says that she was acting up, and he didn't want to let Marie take the baby.
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He was afraid the baby might be harmed or something. Then, late that afternoon, said Pastor James, Marie said she was tired, went to lie down.
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Tanya took the baby out shopping so Marie could rest. The pastor said he waited around for a bit,
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talked to her briefly when she woke up, and then went out for a run. And when he returned, Marie and her white Mazda pickup truck were gone.
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Strangely, the Flanders said, Marie had packed her bags, but didn't take them. Why would she take off and not take her bags with her?
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Anyway, said the Flanders, when she didn't come back that day or the next, they drove around town, looking for her, went to the airport.
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Maybe she'd parked her car there and flown away. Did they find it? They did. James says that he finds it in long-term parking.
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At least part of the mystery was solved, said the pastor. She must have flown off to visit someone.
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They took her pickup home. So, the Mazda. What did you do about that car when you got your hands on it?
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We searched it, but there was nothing to search. It was clean. They went to the airport.
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We checked the airlines. There's nothing. She didn't fly out. So why would Marie's car be at the airport if she hadn't flown out of there?
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Of course, she could have been trying to hide her tracks from snoopy friends and family.
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Or what if someone else took the car to the airport? Someone who wanted to make it look like she'd left town.
00:16:04
Rather fishy. Then the detectives had an idea. You know the machine that spits out tickets when you enter an airport parking lot?
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That very ticket goes back to the toll booth when you leave. Keith and I went to the little toll booth where you give their your ticket.
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Maybe, thought the detectives. The parking ticket for Marie's Mazda would tell them not just when it was dropped off,
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but a more important question, by whom? We were thinking, let's get a thumbprint or a fingerprint,
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and went through every single one of them until we found the one that Marie's car had received.
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And yes, they got a print. But no, it wasn't clear enough to tell whose it was. Then, another thought.
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Hey, let's go pull surveillance video. And of course... You looked at all of it.
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Well, no, the video didn't work. It wasn't working during the time that we needed.
00:17:00
This case for sure was an investigator's worst nightmare. Dead ends everywhere. And weeks went by.
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No sign of Marie anywhere. Time to embrace the thought they'd frankly had all along.
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And it wasn't a good one. Keith and I both no longer believed we had a missing person.
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We believed we were dealing with a homicide investigation. But what's the hardest homicide investigation you can be given?
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One without a body. Yeah. And we didn't have Marie. The startling secret that Marie kept from just about everyone.
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I went up and I put my hand on her stomach and I said, what's going on with this?
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The story of little baby Grace was about to give investigators a very big break.
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Thank you What a nest of puzzles What happened to Marie Carlson? Where did she go?
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Or did she go anywhere? And what about Grace, the baby she'd left behind? Who, for example, was the father?
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Churches tend to be beehives of gossip, so the detectives asked around. She had a boyfriend, was involved in an abusive relationship.
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She was beat up. This is a member of the Calvary Emerald Coast Church. She found out she was pregnant,
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and she didn't want to go back to the guy and didn't want to keep the child. In other words, she was going to have an abortion.
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But Pastor Flanders and his wife had strong views about abortion, and when they discovered her situation,
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they offered to help solve her dilemma. They were going to adopt the baby. The Flanders had an older daughter, always wanted another child, but one miscarriage after another.
00:19:02
And so, as this church elder told the detectives, the pastor and his wife came to an arrangement with Marie.
00:19:10
She would stay three months to nurse the baby, and at the end of three months, the plan all along was she would leave.
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That was my understanding from before the baby was born. With the baby? No. The baby was a gift for the Flanders.
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A gift? Maybe. It was just like Marie to be generous toward the couple who'd been so good to her.
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But to skeptical detectives, especially this brand new mother, something about the story didn't sound quite right.
00:19:40
The father, for example. In fact, the alleged abusive guy didn't seem to exist. But then they talked to ex-husband Jeff.
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And the story he heard? Completely different. And it came directly from Marie when she came to visit Jeff shortly after she got pregnant.
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I put my hand on her stomach and I said, what's going on with this? And she wasn't really showing.
00:20:03
And her story at that time was, well, I'm just being a surrogate for James and Tanya.
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So we did basically a type of artificial insemination. Well, well, well. The pastor was the sperm donor.
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In this news story, Marie's gift was to be the pastor's artificially inseminated surrogate.
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But why the conflicting stories? To find out, the detectives consulted three special church ladies,
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Tanya Flanders' closest confidants. Did you have a name for this group? We called them the Inner Circle.
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And the Inner Circle said, yes, Tanya told them, but swore them to secrecy. But then Tanya gave up a little more.
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the method was very homemade. I remember them saying, oh, it was with the turkey thingy.
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It was with the turkey baser, and now she's got a secret. Yeah, at that point. Wait, at that point?
00:21:00
Yes, because Tanya couldn't just leave it there. The next time, she admitted something very, very shocking.
00:21:09
And Tanya said, well, we did it the old caption way. James and Marie had sex, which Tanya told the ladies was okay with her.
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And as months passed and Marie started showing, there was a baby shower. But oh no, not for Marie.
00:21:27
This baby shower was for Tanya. She put a balloon under her shirt for a funny photo with Marie,
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but something here didn't seem quite right. The inner circle had to keep their secret.
00:21:38
if the story got out, it could threaten everything she and the pastor had built.
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And as it got more and more and more into weird stuff, it was just that the stakes got higher.
00:21:52
That's right. Imagine the secrecy that the inner circle that Tanya actually told the truth to,
00:21:59
that it's James' baby. But no room for secrets in an official investigation. the detectives invited James and Tanya to voluntarily come in for a chat.
00:22:10
But only Tanya showed up. And here in this little room at the sheriff's office she let it all come out
00:22:17
about that night of sake and sex when Grace was conceived. Yeah, yeah, he had a little bit too.
00:22:25
I was the only one that was sober. But yes, I was there. Yes, in the room. But of course she was, said Tanya.
00:22:33
and almost casually she revealed the heresy that should have ever become public would surely ruin
00:22:38
them. Marie was going to move in and she was going to be number two. A plural wife or whatever you
00:22:45
call them. A sister wife I think. It was in short polygamy or their homegrown version of it. Tanya
00:22:54
told detectives she understood the bargain very well. I've always seen a relationship it's it's it's
00:23:00
not sex is not a relationship a relationship is two people coming together and sex is just a bonus
00:23:07
a very secret bonus of course kept from almost everyone but inside the bubble of their relationship
00:23:15
tanya said they were happy she goes you know what i am so glad that you're going to be raising grace
00:23:23
She said, I'm so glad that I'm going to be able to be here to do that with you. And I thought, you know, how cool is that?
00:23:32
But then, then Marie gave birth. And it wasn't cool for Marie. Not anymore. And certainly not adoption.
00:23:42
Every time we started to broach the subject with her, she did get withdrawn. So maybe Tanya wouldn't get baby Grace.
00:23:50
Maybe Marie wanted it all. the baby and James, all for herself. That's what this member of the inner circle believed.
00:24:00
I said I hear that from Marie, that Marie wanted James. Did Tanya strike back somehow? Fight for her marriage by getting rid of Marie?
00:24:11
Listen to how church members quoted Tanya's words. She basically was like, James would never be able to do that, but I could.
00:24:17
Because that was another one of those kind of... Shockers? Yeah. And I told him, you're not capable of killing her.
00:24:24
But Tanya when Zimmer goes, no, he couldn't, but I could. So wouldn't that lead you like a bloodhound direct to Tanya?
00:24:31
She certainly would have a motive. She would. Tanya, now the only mother figure in Grace's life.
00:24:39
Did she know more than she was saying? Did she do something? A confrontation in the congregation.
00:24:49
This is a forgive my saying, come to Jesus moment. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
00:24:54
And divine intervention? A sudden, earth-shaking tip. I can remember getting that tip and thinking, no way.
00:25:20
Jesus is saying you need to learn to really think different. An attentive churchgoer might have noticed the intrusion of an odd idea in one of the sermons of Pastor James Flanders.
00:25:29
What do you think we'd experience? When he mentioned a couple of verses in the Old Testament that seemed to approve somehow of polygamy.
00:25:37
He wanted to justify his relationship to everybody else through a biblical sense.
00:25:42
So he went to the Old Testament and pulled up those few lines that suggest polygamy.
00:25:48
That's correct. A trial balloon? If it was, it quickly imploded. And the very practical polygamy in the home of the pastor stayed carefully under wraps.
00:25:58
So if the news got out to the rest of the church, did Tanya worry about what might happen there?
00:26:03
That's what she was covering up. She had to protect James and protect their, that was their world.
00:26:09
Did she do something to Marie to protect James? Two months after Marie disappeared, the detectives got permission to look at the cell phone records of all three of them.
00:26:19
Would they prove Tanya was with Marie when she vanished and thus, maybe, did something to her?
00:26:26
Cell phone tower information put her away from the area. No, nowhere near Marie.
00:26:33
So then they checked the cell towers for James' phone. And what do you know? When Marie sent that mass text message saying she was leaving town,
00:26:42
Both her phone and the pastor's were pinging off the same cell tower two blocks from his house.
00:26:50
And when Marie's Mazda was dropped to the airport? We've got James Flanders' cell phone touching towers near the airport.
00:26:58
Why would his phone be near the airport? Well, either James innocently drove Marie to the airport and neglected to reveal that,
00:27:07
or he drove her car there to cover up a crime. No way to prove it either way. So they were stuck again.
00:27:15
Which is when Jason, the youth pastor, remember him? Out of the blue, Jason came to call.
00:27:22
He had something the detectives needed to hear, he said. I mean, it would take a certain amount of courage.
00:27:28
Absolutely. We would have never known about that if Jason wouldn't have come forward.
00:27:33
Known what? The secret incident that got junior pastor Jason involved. It happened soon after Marie disappeared, when a very distraught James asked this church elder for help.
00:27:46
He said, he goes, I need you to get me out of the country. I said, what's going on?
00:27:50
I said, does this have to do with Maria or Maria? Marie? He's like, I can't tell you.
00:27:56
He never wants anything to me else, but it's bad. James seemed suicidal, said the elder.
00:28:02
So he called a doctor friend and the doctor committed the preacher to a psychiatric ward for 10 days during which time Jason Anderson took over preacher duties But then Jason heard things not about what happened to Marie but about the polygamy
00:28:21
With other church leaders, he confronted James and Tanya. This is a forgive my saying, come to Jesus moment.
00:28:27
It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, myself personally, was to confront my pastor.
00:28:32
Your mentor, your senior guy. Sure. And James admitted it. He'd been sleeping with two women in the same house.
00:28:41
But then, Youth Pastor Jason told the detectives, in that cloistered setting, James kept talking and told a terrible story.
00:28:50
Him and Marie had had a physical altercation before she went missing, and she had scratched him on his arms.
00:28:58
James insisted Marie was still alive the last time he saw her. I was just so in shock of everything.
00:29:06
That was it. He could not continue as pastor. James would have to resign. He announced that he and Tanya were leaving town.
00:29:15
They were supposed to leave the following morning to say goodbye to some church members.
00:29:21
And lo and behold, around 12 or 1230, they got in that truck and they hauled butt.
00:29:25
They went to Arizona. They fled. Like thieves in the night with baby grace. It was a few days after they left when Jason went to the police to tell his disturbing story.
00:29:37
They had a physical run-in the day that she went missing. Then a piece of luck. Before they left, Marie's friend Kay had asked the pastor and his wife for Marie's belongings.
00:29:48
Now they gave her Marie's computer. The bad news was it had been erased. But. I brought it into the sheriff's department for them to take a look.
00:29:57
We had our forensic tech reanalyze the computer. And it gave us a beautiful copy of her phone download that she had done when she backed her phone up.
00:30:09
Wow. But maybe it wasn't so lucky. There were thousands of text messages, but they were an unreadable jumble of symbols and words.
00:30:18
This particular coin. Though, look at this. Marie shot this video that did survive, showing the pastor hawking gold and silver online,
00:30:28
apparently while running the church. He's valuing this coin at over $500. Let me tell you, that's exciting stuff.
00:30:36
Was James just a pastor or a part-time flim-flam man? So this is where things stood when an anonymous tip came in.
00:30:46
And what was Crime Stoppers? Startling. If true, it would solve the case. And in the tip, it says that James buried her in the backyard.
00:30:57
That's some tip. Yeah. I can remember getting that tip and thinking, no way. Like, who would kill somebody and bury them in their own backyard?
00:31:07
Could be bogus, of course, just another false lead. But Nestle was hopeful. We brought cadaver dogs and ground-penetrating radar, and we didn't find anything.
00:31:17
Nothing? Nothing. Nobody. So, what happened to Marie? More months went by. Police kept trying to speak with James, but got no response.
00:31:31
And then, after a whole year, they tried again, and he picked up. But he did talk. Talked for two hours, in fact, from his car.
00:31:45
At times, sounding like he was the victim. going and not letting us know what's going on, and then back to anger at myself for not
00:32:00
making a phone call to get her help, and anger at myself for ever letting the relationship
00:32:05
became what it became. The pastor said he knew he was the prime suspect. I am terrified of the prospect of Marie taking her own life, and if she did, then I pray she
00:32:18
didn't. I hope she did it very very very very very very very far away because if they find one little phone that somehow could be connected with her It my fault I sure it the way people would look at it Do you know where Marie is No I do not
00:32:34
If I did, I would go get her. Did you kill Marie Carlson? No. And that was that.
00:32:41
They were stalled. Marie was missing. And the case was getting very cold. New revelations from the pastor.
00:32:56
They were sending pornographic photos back and forth from the church. And an answer at last to the biggest mystery of all.
00:33:05
Where was Marie? I was pretty devastated. I felt like I missed her. Unlike a fine wine, a cold case doesn't get better with age.
00:33:32
It just gets colder. And state attorney Bill Eddins wasn't optimistic it would ever be solved.
00:33:38
What chance did you get? I really felt that it was about a 50-50 chance of it being solved.
00:33:44
Eddins assigned one of his most experienced prosecutors, Angela Mason, to work on it.
00:33:48
She wasn't optimistic either. I was certainly vulnerable in that I did not have a body.
00:33:54
I also was vulnerable with the Tanya element, that people thought she could be a suspect.
00:33:59
And then, three years after Marie disappeared, the most amazing thing happened. Marie's computer yielded to a new forensics program.
00:34:08
And out spilled in crimson, blushing clarity, text messages between Marie and James.
00:34:14
I love you. I love you so much. And getting graphic details of what he wants to do with her.
00:34:19
Kind of pornographic. Pornographic, even to the point they were sending pornographic photos with each other.
00:34:25
From the church. Some things are hard to unsee. They'll spare you. Oh, and most important, everything stopped the day she disappeared.
00:34:37
No credit cards, no phones. I thought that was strong evidence that she was in fact dead and not in fact missing.
00:34:43
And her last conversation with a family member was... She went out of the circumstances she was in, but she wasn't going to leave her baby behind.
00:34:53
And then there was this. One of those sermons posted on YouTube just a month before Marie vanished.
00:34:59
And now in the evidence file. Now whenever someone is backstabbing me, lying about me, gossiping about me, trying to tear me down or whatever, you know what I want to do?
00:35:09
My feelings say, choke the life out of them. Is that what the pastor did to Marie?
00:35:20
The detectives spelled out their case. Circumstantial, difficult, but the prosecutors bought it.
00:35:28
And James Flanders was charged with second-degree murder. Persistence paid off. We were four and a half years in.
00:35:34
Most people would have given up by now. But as the pastor waited in jail for his trial,
00:35:40
His attorney and former church member Glenn Switek was optimistic. What did you think your chances were if you went to trial?
00:35:47
I didn't believe that the state had second-degree murder. They didn't have a body.
00:35:52
Maybe not, but as the pastor and his attorney looked at the evidence that might put him in prison for life,
00:35:57
just before the trial, they made a deal. The state reduced the charge from second-degree murder to manslaughter,
00:36:04
and James agreed to tell them what he did to Marie and where he put her. Marie's family grudgingly agreed.
00:36:13
That was the hardest thing, but I wanted to know where my sister was. I didn't want to go years and years and years and not know.
00:36:21
As much as I just absolutely hated to agree to it, I knew that was probably the only way.
00:36:31
First, as part of the deal, the pastor told the story of Marie, of the polygamy arrangement He said Marie even had a name for their relationship
00:36:50
Marie called it a throuple. Thruple. Then the pastor offered his version of that last awful night.
00:37:00
He claimed that Marie was in a downward spiral mentally and erupted after he told her she should be hospitalized for depression.
00:37:06
A fatal bear hug? Not possible, thought Nestle. And then she braced for the answer.
00:37:34
She'd waited five years to hear. Did you bury Marie in the backyard? I'll tell you exactly what happened.
00:37:42
Is that where you buried her? No. At that point, the detective got up and left the room.
00:37:50
Nestle passed me a note that said I missed her. I was pretty devastated. I was in that backyard in 2012.
00:37:58
Not like you didn't look. Yeah, but, you know, human nature, you still have the guilt,
00:38:03
the feeling of I could have found her six months after she was reported missing.
00:38:10
The pastor insisted that Tanya wasn't around, was shopping, knew nothing. Did you get her buried before Tanya came back?
00:38:19
Oh, yeah. Do you wonder whether Tanya had more to do with this? I think that'll always be in the back of our minds, but, you know,
00:38:28
I think she may have known more than she wants to say. But Tanya was never charged,
00:38:35
and her defense attorney said she was truly shocked by James' confession. I can tell you, as a matter of fact,
00:38:43
from having to tell her what happened, she did not know. Later that afternoon, Nestle escorted James Flanders into his former backyard,
00:38:55
where he marked with little flags the spot where he buried Marie Carlson five years earlier.
00:39:01
And then he fell on the ground and cried and told her, I'm sorry. What an act, thought Nestle.
00:39:10
It took hours, but finally, almost five feet deep, wrapped in a blanket, they found what was left of Marie.
00:39:18
I was shaking. I was crying so much. I don't think I've ever cried so loud. Nestle and prosecutor Angela Mason wept, too.
00:39:29
It's my fault. Back in court that afternoon, James Flanders was sentenced to 15 years.
00:39:36
He's going to get to have a life after he's done. Marie's gone forever. She doesn't get a life, especially with her kids, which is, for most mothers, the world.
00:39:52
Jeff Carlson had to tell his daughter Paris her mom was not coming back. Wasn't easy.
00:39:59
What do you say? you don't know how to prepare them for the future of living with this.
00:40:07
He deprived her of her mother. Later, Marie's family, and many others, gathered for a celebration of Marie's life.
00:40:18
They did her favorite thing. They sang karaoke. And Esther told us that when Marie's daughter Paris came to visit her cousin, Esther's daughter,
00:40:27
The two would sit down at the piano and play, make music, just like their mothers years ago.
00:40:34
And Grace? I want to tell her all about her mom. It's one of those where I just, I want to show her, you know, like, your mother really did love you.
00:40:44
Maybe someday she'll know about that uncontainable woman who, while she stayed, brought joy.
00:40:53
Marie. Thank you.