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Good morning. It's time for Dateline's morning meeting. We're getting a live shot from Franny, who is at the courthouse.
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Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. The defense begins their case on Monday.
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Recently bought McDonald's was still in the charred kitchen. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly.
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I'm Blaine Alexander, filling in today for Andrea Canning, who's on vacation. It's July 3rd, and here's what's on our docket.
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In a Kentucky courthouse, prosecutors lay out their case against the man they say killed Crystal Rogers, a mother of five, and the case against a second man who they say helped cover it up.
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She overheard Steve and Joseph Lawson talking about moving a body at Brooks Family's Farm.
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In Dateline Roundup, big news from Utah in the case of Corey Richens, the children's book author who's accused of fatally poisoning her husband.
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She is now facing more than two dozen new charges. And we've got a verdict in the racketeering trial of music mogul Sean Diddy Combs.
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I'm going to interrupt you just closely here because we are getting the verdict coming in right now.
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And you might be familiar with the Amber Alert for missing children. But what about the Turquoise Alert?
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Officials are hoping it will help save lives. lives. There is no wait time in New Mexico to make a report about somebody. You should report
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your missing loved one right away. But before all that, we're off to Idaho, where a case that has
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gripped and horrified the nation came to a dramatic and unexpected conclusion this week.
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Five weeks from now, reporters, family members and public spectators were set to flock to Boise,
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Idaho to attend the trial of Brian Koberger, the man accused of fatally stabbing four University
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of Idaho students back in 2022. The courthouse was reserved and lawyers on both sides were
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preparing to present their cases. But all of that changed earlier this week when news broke that
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Koberger had agreed to plead guilty to four first-degree murder counts and an additional
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charge of felony burglary, all in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table.
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Koberger appeared in court on Wednesday for a change of plea hearing. Keith Morrison and Dateline producer Shane Bishop were watching that, and they're here now to tell us what happened.
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Keith and Shane, you two have been on this story from the very beginning. You've broken news on this story, so I am so glad to talk to you about this latest huge development in this case.
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Welcome. Thank you very much for asking us, for having us here. It was pretty big, but I was initially kind of surprised, but then not so much after about half an hour of thinking about it.
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What did you think, Shane? Were you surprised? I wasn't. I felt like the judge was always moving this case toward a plea deal in subtle ways.
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Well, I want to talk more about that. But first, let's talk about how this hearing unfolded on
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Wednesday. Both of you watched the live streamed plea hearing. We saw Koberger sitting there at
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the defense table. What was his demeanor? What was he looking like? Well, I saw a young man sitting there perfectly erect in his chair, wearing a shirt and tie,
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not the suit jacket that he'd worn in the past. This time he sat, he paid attention. At one point,
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early on, he wanted to stand up to address the judge. And Mr. Colberg, just to make it easier,
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you don't need to stand when you speak to me. I appreciate the sign of respect, but for convenience,
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you can remain seated. All right. But he was just, he was being Mr. Correct. Yeah, I could see he had
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a fresh haircut. I noticed the lack of suit jacket as well. And he looked like the teaching assistant
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at the college, which he was. Right. I think there were a couple of things that stood out to me that were especially chilling.
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One, hearing Brian Kohlberger's voice, hearing him repeatedly say yes when the charges were
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read out. And then let me ask you, did you kill and murder Madison Mogan, a human being?
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Yes. And did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately, and with premeditation and malice
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of forethought? Yes. Did you on or about that same date kill and murder Kaylee Gonsalves, a human being?
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Yes And did you on that same date kill and murder Zanuck Kernodle, a human being?
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Yes Did you kill and murder Ethan Chapin, a human being? Yes He seemed almost a jump at the chance to say it
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Yeah To get that word in there as quick as he could To me it was like here is the well-versed criminology student
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knowing how this is going to work, knowing what his answers would have to be or should be,
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and wanting to be able to supply them, boom, boom, quickly and easily. Now, as he was going through this, guys, what was the reaction inside the courtroom?
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Well, you know, from what I could see, it just seemed like a very quiet, well-ordered room where,
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you know, nobody was going to speak out of turn. Nobody wanted this to go sideways. The only time that there was anything that was other than what seemed to be very
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carefully planned ahead of time was when the prosecutor completed his recitation of the facts
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of the case, he became somewhat emotional. On November 13th, 2022, excuse me, Ms. Koberger
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entered the residence at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho. He did that with the intent to kill and
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that he then killed Manny Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalez, Ethan Chapin, and Santa Cruz. Thank you. Thank you.
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And I understand that there were some family members who were almost sobbing during portions of this as well.
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It's not an easy story to hear, and for a family member especially. You know, I want to step back and just talk quickly about how this plea deal came about.
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I mean, we're so close to the start of the trial. Why now? Well, my belief is that the defense was out of moves.
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In June there was a closed hearing where the defense tried to argue that they should be allowed to present alternate perpetrator evidence during the trial The judge heard their proffer and decided that basically there was
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nothing to it. So with that gone and Kohlberger's, I think, very weak alibi defense that he was
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stargazing and turned his phone off during the exact time of the murders, I think the defense
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was out of moves. I'm curious why the prosecutors would take this. What was the benefit to them?
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Well, let me say one thing. One thing that really blew my mind was when the judge said he was going
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to call in 10,000 prospective jurors. I mean, that is a mind-boggling number in a jury pool.
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I think it's often in the state's interest to reach a plea. First, you get a guaranteed life
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sentence. The guy is not going to be a danger to anybody else. Secondly, Dylan and Bethany don't
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have to testify. And thirdly, I mean, this saves millions, if not tens of millions of dollars
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for the county and the state. Let's talk about the victims' families, because one thing when the news broke on Monday, almost immediately thereafter,
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we saw this Facebook statement from the Gonsalves family, essentially saying we are beyond furious
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at the state of Idaho. They have failed us. Steve Gonsalves, the father of Kaylee Gonsalves,
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actually spent the hearing outside of the courthouse. He refused to go inside. He did speak, however.
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He spoke to some reporters. Let's listen to that. Why do you want this to go to trial?
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Because then my peers, this community, will decide that he's guilty. One man shouldn't decide what four souls are worth.
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You said they made a deal with the devil? Yeah, they did. On the other hand, there were some families
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who were actually almost relieved by this plea deal, right? Even Chapin's parents were completely behind it. Madison Mogan's family put out a statement saying they were behind it and ready to move on. I believe it was Zanna Kernodle's aunt who said she was not good with it, as the Gonsalves family expressed they were not good with it.
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And we say this all the time. You don't know how you would feel about something unless they're in that position.
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So I could certainly understand how families could be split on either side. I think one thing is certain that this case has generated a tremendous amount of public interest.
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A lot of people have questions and really were looking to watch this trial and hoping to have some of those questions answered.
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The question that remains unanswered, of course, is why and why he chose. the investigators believed it was Maddie Mogan who was the target, and the other ones
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in some way became collateral damage. Well, I think one of the big things is everybody wants to know where the knife went. Our sources tell us
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he probably dumped it in the river down in Lewiston the next day. As for why, I mean, I've talked to people throughout the last two and a half years
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about motive, and someone once told me he wanted to make pretty girls ugly. And I think that's
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probably the best explanation you're going to get from somebody who's not a forensic psychologist.
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That's the suggestion. And I think it makes some sense whether it's actually correct or true or
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not. I don't know. We'll ever know. And finally, let's talk about sentencing happening later this
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month. I mean, a couple of changes there. One, Brian Koberger will not be wearing regular street
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clothes. He'll be appearing in jail attire. But what can we expect to see during the sentencing
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hearing. I think the sentencing hearing, there will be so much emotion as the victim's families
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are all, by law, able to speak. The question I have in my mind is whether Brian Kohlberger's
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parents will make a statement on what they might have to say. Or will he say anything?
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Well, Shane and Keith, like I said, nobody knows this case better than the two of you,
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so I really appreciate you two joining us to break it down today. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thanks, Blake. Up next, the jury hears chilling testimony at the trial of two men accused of being involved in the murder of Kentucky mom Crystal Rogers.
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We've got all the details. For our next story, we're heading back to a Kentucky courthouse where the state's trial of the decade is underway.
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Ten years ago this week, Crystal Rogers disappeared almost without a trace. Her car was found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway and her body was never located.
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After an eight-year investigation, Brooks Houck, Crystal's former boyfriend, was charged with her murder
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and his employee, Joseph Lawson, with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence.
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Both men have pleaded not guilty and are now standing trial together. This week, the prosecution called more than a dozen witnesses, each with their own piece of the puzzle about what may have happened to Crystal the night she disappeared.
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Dateline producer Marissa Meyer has been in the courtroom and joins us now to talk about what we have learned so far.
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Marissa, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm glad to be here, Blaine. We've heard from dozens of witnesses. Just kind of tell us about some of the ones that have stood out to you so far.
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Sure. Well, we heard from one witness, Crystal's friend. She spoke with and saw Crystal on the day she disappeared. She said on the stand that the night that she ended up going missing, Brooks had planned this kid-free date night.
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And Marissa, according to the prosecution, that date night never actually happened, right? Instead, they went to Brooks' family farm where the prosecution believes Crystal died. What else did we learn here?
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She also gave some insight into the relationship between Brooks and Crystal She talked about how sometimes Brooks could say things about Crystal appearance and how Brooks mother Rosemary didn seem to approve of the relationship Brooks mother Rosemary she came up in the testimony of another witness as well right Who was that witness and what did he have to say about her
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Yes, so that witness was Danny Singleton and he was a former employee of Brooke's.
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He'd worked for Brooke's for about 15 years and Danny said he spoke to Rosemary two weeks before Crystal disappeared
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and she asked him if he could find someone to get rid of Crystal. The prosecution in their opening statement called Rosemary Houck a co-conspirator,
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but she has never actually been charged with anything. In fact, on cross-examination,
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the defense really went after Singleton's credibility, pointing out that he had been
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arrested for perjury related to this case. What does that stem from? Yeah, the defense got Danny to admit that he lied about his whereabouts the night of July 3rd when Crystal disappeared. And Danny had told investigators that he was at a bar, but on the stand, he admitted he was doing drugs. And he said he lied when he first talked to investigators because he didn't want to get arrested.
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For doing drugs. Yes, but Danny held firm under cross-examination that now he is telling the truth. In this trial, he says he is telling the truth.
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Well, you know, we've heard from a lot of witnesses. Someone else we heard from, Marissa, was the ex-girlfriend of Joseph Lawson's father, Steve.
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Now, just a quick reminder to our listeners, Steve was convicted for his role in Crystal's murder a few weeks ago.
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Like Joseph, Steve Lawson had been charged with conspiracy and tampering with evidence.
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So what did we learn from her testimony, the ex-girlfriend's testimony? This is a woman named Heather Snelling. She said she overheard Steve and Joseph Lawson talking about moving a body at Brooks Family's farm using a skid steer, which I had never heard of, but the skid steer is a piece of equipment.
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What is that? Yeah, it's a piece of equipment that I guess usually is a bucket in front and it's used for digging and moving things in landscape and construction, that kind of thing.
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On cross, the defense went through the interviews she'd done with law enforcement and they were pointing out she never brought up what she says she overheard.
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overheard. Another striking piece of testimony about Joseph Lawson came on Monday from another
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former employee of Brooks. That's right. This came from Charlie Girdley, and he'd also testified at
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Steve Lawson's trial as well. Girdley said Joseph Lawson once talked with him about Crystal.
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And according to Girdley, Joseph said he would bury her with a skid steer and nobody would ever
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find her. Charlie said also the day Crystal went missing, he saw Brooks give Joseph Lawson Crystal's
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car keys. But there was also this really dramatic moment when Charlie said, Joseph said he would
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pull her teeth and the hogs would do the rest. Oh, wow. Yeah. And assuming pull her teeth,
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meaning get rid of a way to identify her with her dental records. Wow. Oh my gosh. So
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How did the defense try to counter Girdley's testimony on Cross? They did what they've been doing with other witnesses.
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They really questioned Charlie's credibility. And they pointed out that he was a drug user and that his story had changed significantly over the years.
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And Charlie himself admitted that one time when he was being questioned by state police investigators, he'd been awake for five to six days high on drugs, too.
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Wow. And the defense also pointed out that even as late as 2023, Charlie told investigators Brooks had never talked to him about Crystal.
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And Charlie had said at that point that Brooks was not involved at all. And the defense insinuated that investigators really led Charlie into telling them a story that neatly fit into what their theory of the crime is.
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Okay. Well, the prosecution has now arrested its case. So what do we know so far about the defense here?
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So the defense has started. It seems like overall they're trying to paint this picture that the facts and the proof in this case were replaced by assumptions and theories and that witnesses were really manipulated and they said even bullied into fitting a certain narrative of this crime.
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Well, Marissa, we know that you're going to stay all over it as always, and we really appreciate you talking with us today. Thanks so much.
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Thank you so much, Blaine. Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. Children's book author and accused killer Corey Richens faces new charges.
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The murder trial of former Major League Baseball player Dan Serafini winds down with his wife on the stand.
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And after 13 and a half hours of deliberations, a verdict in the trial of music mogul Sean Diddy Combs.
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Plus, New Mexico's Secretary of Indian Affairs joins us to talk about a new law that she thinks will be a game changer in the search for missing indigenous people.
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Welcome back To kick off this week roundup we got big news in a story that we been covering in our daily podcast on trial After seven weeks of testimony 34 witnesses and more than 13 hours of deliberations the jury came back Wednesday morning with a verdict
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in the federal trial of music mogul Sean Combs. I'm going to interrupt you just closely here,
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Missy, because we are getting the verdict coming in right now. This is coming in real time.
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He faced a life sentence on the most serious charges. Just after 10.15 a.m., Combs held the
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hand of one of his defense attorneys as the verdict was read out, guilty on two counts of
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transportation to engage in prostitution, not guilty on two counts of sex trafficking, and one
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count of racketeering conspiracy, the charges that could have seen him face decades behind bars.
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After the jury was excused, Combs sank to his knees, resting his head on a chair as if praying.
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His family in the courtroom clapped and cheered. Outside the courthouse, the civil attorney representing Cassie Ventura, Combs' ex-girlfriend and one of the main
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prosecution witnesses, spoke to the press. We're pleased that he's finally been held
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responsible for two federal crimes, something that he's never faced in his life.
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A few hours later, the judge denied Combs' request for bail and ordered him to remain
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in custody until his sentencing. According to the prosecution, Combs could face at least
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four to five years in prison based on sentencing guidelines. We'll keep you posted as we learn more.
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If you want to hear more in-depth coverage of the case, remember to check out our podcast on trial.
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All right. And for the rest of this week's headlines, I'm joined by Dateline digital
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producer Veronica Mazzaca, and we're starting with the case out of Utah. Veronica, thanks so
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much for being here with us today. Thanks for having me. Well, Veronica, a flurry of new charges
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have been filed against Utah mom, Corey Richens. Just a reminder for our listeners,
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she's the woman accused of poisoning her husband with a lethal dose of fentanyl and then writing a children's book about grief. She has pleaded not guilty to her murder charge,
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but just this week, she was hit with 26 new charges? What's that about? They were all pertaining to financial crimes that prosecutors allege took place in the months
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leading up to her husband's death. These charges stem from the homicide investigation,
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include mortgage fraud, communications fraud, forgery, issuing a bad check, money laundering, and a pattern of unlawful activity.
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And these charges come more than two years after she was charged with her husband's death,
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and just two days before the statute of limitations was set to expire on some of these charges.
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Richen's murder trial is scheduled for February 2026, but there's been no trial date yet set for these new charges.
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We'll watch and see what happens there. And finally, we are checking into the trial of former MLB pitcher Dan Serafini.
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He's the man accused of shooting his in-laws at their home in Lake Tahoe, killing his father-in-law, Gary Spore, and seriously wounding his mother-in-law, Wendy Wood.
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Aaron Spore, Dan Serafini's wife, continued her testimony on the stand. What were the main takeaways from her testimony?
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She defended her husband, Dan, but when it came to Samantha Scott, she called her deceitful.
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And when asked if Samantha Scott could be trusted, Aaron answered, quote, absolutely not.
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And just a reminder, Samantha Scott is the woman who says she actually drove Serafini to Lake Tahoe the day of the attack and has taken a plea for her role in the shooting.
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Yes. She also admitted on the stand that she became Serafini's lover. Well, the defense then projected four photos, two of Samantha Scott during the trial and two of Aaron.
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They asked Erin to comment on whether she thought that Samantha Scott was trying to be her.
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What was that? Yeah. So she said that it appeared that she was. And she also said that the similarities in their appearances were, quote, creepy.
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So she was saying that essentially she thought that Samantha was trying to become her in a way?
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Pretty much, I guess. And taking her spot, if you will, since she became Dan's lover as well.
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Interesting. Okay. Well, jurors will be receiving their instructions this week with closing arguments scheduled for next week, July 8th.
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So, of course, we will be following that trial as it winds down and the jury begins deliberations.
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Veronica, thanks so much for joining me this week. Thank you. 21 years ago, 16-year-old Tiffany Reed vanished from her small town of Shiprock, New Mexico, located on the Navajo Reservation.
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She has never been found. Her family blames the local police for not acting more quickly.
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Tiffany's big sister spoke with Josh Mankiewicz for his most recent episode of Dateline Missing in America.
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They asked if my sister had taken off from home before, and my mom said, yeah, she has.
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And they just basically ran with that and said, okay, well, maybe she just ran away from home.
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So if she's not back in 72 hours, then you can report her missing. You must have thought about that delay a lot in the last 20 years.
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I have. Tiffany is one of nearly 200 missing indigenous people in the state of New Mexico.
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This week, the state became the fourth in the nation to introduce an alert system designed to get more attention more quickly for indigenous people who go missing.
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It's called the Turquoise Alert System. My next guest, Josette Monette, is New Mexico's Cabinet Secretary of Indian Affairs, and she's
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joining us now to tell us more about this new alert system. Secretary Monette, welcome, and thank you so much for joining us today.
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Hi, thank you so much for having me today. You once said, too many Native American families have faced crisis and the heartbreak of a loved
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one disappearing without the swift response they deserve. Why? believe that's the case. Well, we know from various studies that there has been a large portion of
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Native American people that have gone missing and not always having a quick response. And so
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that was kind of my thought is that this hopefully will help get to bridging some of that gap of
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having an alert system specifically for Native American people, even when they might go missing.
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In your experience, have you found that these cases have not been prioritized in the same way as other missing people?
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I can't speak for any individual law enforcement or a family member. And, you know, I've been lucky enough that this hasn't been something I've experienced personally.
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What we do know in Indian country are there are jurisdictional questions for what is federal land, what state land and who has the jurisdiction over that.
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So those sometimes do become issues. One of the gaps that we were trying to cover, in particular what the Turquoise still learned, is we know that the Amber Alert covers younger children.
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The Silver Alert covers a larger age group. But most missing Indigenous people fall between like 18 to 46 And there was no alert system for that age group And so one of the things with the turquoise alert is trying to ensure that there an alert
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system in place for that age group of missing and murdered indigenous people. Just walk me through how this would work.
00:25:30
It does function very much like an amber alert or a silver alert based on, you know,
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one of the criteria is for a person who has gone missing due to an involuntary or unexplained or
00:25:41
suspicious circumstances. We're talking about road signs, radio alerts, TV alerts, different ways to
00:25:47
get that information out immediately to the public, right? Correct. Turquoise, the name Turquoise,
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that was not chosen by mistake. That's very intentional. Tell our listeners why that was
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chosen as this alert. We actually had a staff member at the Indian Affairs Department who was
00:26:02
kind of was creative in her thinking. And, you know, turquoise means a lot to New Mexico
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and leads a lot to native people in the Southwest. It's a powerful stone. She kind of had this creative thought of, you know,
00:26:15
you have silver and you have amber. So like a stone or kind of a material of sorts.
00:26:20
And she like what if we use turquoise solar to kind of represent native people here in New Mexico And I was like oh that a great idea So we ran with it We thought it was great You know in Tiffany Reed case her family has said that police told them to wait 72
00:26:34
hours to file a missing persons report. And they say that even after all of that, police then waited four days, according to
00:26:41
the family, to put Tiffany's information into a national database for missing people.
00:26:46
Now, police wouldn't comment to our Dateline team on what they say happened, citing an open
00:26:51
an active investigation. So I guess my question to you is, had this law been in effect back in 2004
00:26:57
when she originally went missing, do you think that this would have made a difference in her case?
00:27:03
I can't really say for sure whether or not it would have. I can say that my hope is
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that having this alert system moving forward does help prevent some of those things.
00:27:15
You should report you're missing loved one right away. Secretary Monette, thank you so much for your time.
00:27:20
Thanks for joining us today to talk about this very important system. We appreciate it.
00:27:24
Thank you. I appreciate it. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly.
00:27:30
To get ad free listening for all of our podcasts subscribe to Dateline Premium And if you want to learn more about missing persons cases don forget to check out Josh new season of the Dateline Missing in America podcast Episodes one through four including his report on the Tiffany Reed case are out now wherever you get your podcasts
00:27:52
And remember to listen closely because you could be the key to solving a mystery.
00:27:57
And reminder, there's no Dateline this Friday. But don't worry, friends. You can watch our When Sparks Fly Marathon on the Dateline 24-7 channel Friday through Monday.
00:28:08
Except, of course, when you take a break Saturday at 9, 8 central to watch a classic two-hour Keith mystery on NBC.
00:28:16
Thanks so much for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Frannie Kelly and Katie Ferguson.
00:28:21
Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kurloff.
00:28:28
Veronica Mazzaka is our digital producer. Production and fact-checking help by Terry Dickerson.
00:28:34
Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is the head of audio production.
00:28:42
Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.
00:28:47
Thanks, everybody. Have a great time.