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Hey, good morning. It's the start of another busy day here at 30 Rockefeller Center.
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Let's just jump right in. Our Dateline team is catching up on breaking crime news.
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He took the stand, insisting throughout that he did not kill his wife because he's afraid of blood.
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It would be kind of big news if she did get a new trial. We have interrogation footage of the actual guy taking a polygraph.
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Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's August 21st, and here's what's on our docket.
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13 years after a UNC student was found murdered in her bedroom, the man accused of killing her raises new questions about evidence collected at the crime scene.
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Police took a swab of a two-inch-long bloodstain from the scene, but according to the defense, it was never tested.
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In Dateline Roundup, the latest from the trial of Donna Adelson, the Florida grandmother accused of masterminding a murder plot,
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and a courtroom surprise at the sentencing of former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini.
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He got some new attorneys and they then filed a motion asking for a new trial. Plus, you see them in most Dateline episodes.
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Police interrogations. An expert gives us a scoop on how investigators prepare. You may have an ace in your pocket, so to speak.
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Basically irrefutable evidence. You'll want to reveal that last. But before all that, we're heading to a Georgia courtroom where a teenager who posted on TikTok
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grieving her murdered mom and stepdad is now facing charges of killing them. On February 20th of this year, a teenager named Sarah Grace Patrick called 911.
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Her mother, Kristen Brock, and her stepfather had been shot dead in their home. From the very moment the 911 call was received, a relentless investigation began.
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That is the spokesperson for the Carroll County Sheriff's Office at a press conference last month.
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While investigators did their work, Sarah Grace took to social media posting photos of herself in tears, mascara running down her face.
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She also sent messages to people who post about crime asking for help publicizing her parents' case, which is why what happened next surprised so many.
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Today we can confirm that an arrest has been made in the case. Kristen Brock's 17-year-old daughter, Sarah Grace Patrick, has been taken into custody and charged with two counts of murder and two counts of aggravated assault.
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On Tuesday, Sarah Grace went before a judge in Carrollton, Georgia, for a bond hearing.
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And in that courtroom, the two sides of her family completely disagreed over whether or not she should be released before her trial.
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Rebecca Leftwich, managing editor of the local paper, The Times Georgian, was there.
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and she joins us now to tell us what she heard. Hi, Rebecca. Thank you so much for being here.
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Thank you for having me. Kristen and James Brock, the victims. James goes by Jamie. They had a five-year-old daughter and
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also Sarah Grace. They all lived together. They did. What is the sheriff's office saying then about who found the bodies? Can you take us through that?
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Of course, they were very tight-lipped for a very long time because the investigation,
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I guess, was going like gangbusters behind the scenes. And my understanding is that the five-year-old
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went in, found her parents, told her sister, and Sarah Grace then called 911. Both Kristen and Jamie had been shot multiple times. This is according to the arrest warrant.
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That's correct. And at the hearing, the bond hearing, one of the relatives mentioned that
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both Kristen and James had been shot in the head at least once. This case has received national attention because Sarah Grace was posting on TikTok.
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There's photos of her with eye makeup running down her cheeks and then text saying, I can't do this without my mom. There's one where she's making a sad face,
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saying this can't be real on the way to my parents' funeral. You don't want to judge somebody by the way they grieve. I would hate to have my grief
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picked apart some days. There's one post with the victim, the mom, Kristen, and her voice is on it.
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But at the bottom, it has a GoFundMe link, which it just seemed a strange place to stick a GoFundMe link because it was a very sentimental and very sweet video.
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According to people behind some popular true crime accounts like Allegedly, Reportedly and True Crime Mama, Sarah Grace was even reaching out to them.
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So it appears that about a month before Sarah Grace's arrest, she reached out to a TikToker who goes by allegedly reportedly to ask for help investigating her parents' open case.
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Y'all, this is Sarah Grace, and she messaged me back on June 3rd and just said, search up Brock case.
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She was asking for me to cover the case, and I did so. I get requests like that all the time.
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So that is a screenshot of me covering it and where she said thank you. And as of today, July 8th, 2025, she was arrested.
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Why would you ask me to cover a case where you are going to get arrested for taking your parents' lives?
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So what led to Sarah Grace's arrest? Well, they won't say. When Ashley Holsey from the Carroll County Sheriff's Office, when she led the press conference,
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there was some mention of how a lot of it took place electronically and that they called in other agencies.
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She said there's a mountain of evidence. That is the exact phrase that she used.
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She's being charged as an adult, even though she's 17. She is. Sarah Grace's biological father, DJ Patrick, has spoken out about this.
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He has. And so has the grandfather. DJ told Newsweek, I know 100% of my heart that Sarah's innocent. She would never do this.
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And Sarah Grace's grandfather, her mom's dad, spoke to a local Fox station and Court TV, and he said, quote, nothing puts the gun in her hand. They don't have the gun.
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That may be true, but I'm not sure that without seeing all of the evidence that you could say that with any sort of authority.
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I don't blame him for saying that. I feel like he going to defend that grandchild because I would you would we all would Rebecca other family members aren as supportive as Sarah Grace father and grandfather Let talk about this hearing that happened on Tuesday
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Some of the family of Sarah Grace's stepfather testified. Every night I lie awake unable to sleep.
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Her family maintains that she is innocent. And given her manipulative behavior, I believe she may attempt to flee.
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The one thing that came out that I think surprised me just a little bit was these people are genuinely scared of this girl.
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They are afraid that she will hurt them if she gets out of jail. If the defendant can kill her own parents in such a violent, violent manner, I fear for my own safety.
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Sarah Grace turned herself in but has yet to enter a plea. Her defense attorney called a number of character witnesses on her behalf.
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Of course, they're trying to get her out before trial. Yes. They want her back where they can take care of her, is what they said.
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And she did have quite a few people from different areas of her life. She had a teenage friend that she's had since middle school and her mother.
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She is not a threat to anyone. She is deeply loved and supported by my family, by me and her own family.
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I truly believe she deserves a chance to be home, surrounded by those who care about her.
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They had the pastor of the church where they all attend or attended. And he's been going and seeing her and praying with her.
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That was a big thing, you know, that the church family would support her however they needed to.
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Yeah, I know there were a lot of people, you know, some had on T-shirts that read, I stand with Sarah Grace.
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Letters were written that she's a, you know, normal, typical teen loved in her community.
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What did the judge ultimately decide after hearing both sides? The judge denied bail, denied bond.
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His reasoning was that the prosecutors had proved that she was a flight risk because the side of the family, they called it the Nolan side of the family, Kristen's maiden name, that they had the means to theoretically get her out of town and not bring her back.
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And I know that the judge mentioned specifically the state's argument that Sarah Grace might influence or manipulate witnesses. This is going to court next on September 22nd, and there's actually a trial date set.
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Yes. If there are no continuances, then the trial is supposed to start on January 5th.
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Yeah. So that is, I guess, what the judge called speedy justice. Right. That's exactly what he said. And I do believe that part of that he said was out of a concern for her, that she's 17 years old in an adult prison and being isolated from the general population.
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Right. All right, Rebecca, thank you so much. What a disturbing story. Thank you.
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Coming up, the man accused of killing a UNC Chapel Hill student 13 years ago wants new testing of evidence from the crime scene. His defense says it could point to someone else.
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September 6, 2012 was a busy day in the life of UNC Chapel Hill student Faith Hedgepeth.
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The 19-year-old went to a rush event for a sorority she was hoping to join, put in some study time at the library, and that night went to a nightclub with her roommate.
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The next morning, she was found beaten to death in her bedroom. On her bed, there was a note that read,
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I'm not stupid, bitch, jealous. At first, investigators believed the note might be a clue
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that her killer was someone she knew. But nine years later, when they finally announced an arrest in the case,
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the accused man, Miguel Salguero Olivares, seemed to have no connection to faith.
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He has been charged with first-degree murder as well as first-degree burglary, rape, and sexual offense.
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He has yet to enter a plea. Now, in a series of recent court filings, his defense team has asked for new testing
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of crime scene evidence to see if it can reveal who was really there that night.
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Dateline producer Mike Nardi is here to tell us more. Mike, thanks for coming back on the podcast.
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Thanks for having me, Andrea. Yeah, so to start, why don't you just tell us a little bit about who Faith was?
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She had Native American ancestry, and she was part of the Halawa-Saponi American Indian tribe, which is based in North Carolina. She was a biology major
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at UNC Chapel Hill. Her loved ones described her as constantly smiling, someone who loved to joke,
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and she had dreams of being a doctor. So it was a huge shock, needless to say, for her family when this happened.
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Yeah. So, Mike, what did police initially think when they investigated this crime?
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Well, you touched upon it when you mentioned that note. They thought it was someone close to Faith and there was DNA left behind at the scene.
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It was a bloody scene and they knew she'd been sexually assaulted. There was a wine bottle and a bottle of rum that they got DNA off of.
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So when we're talking about DNA, are we talking about Faith's DNA? Are we talking about unknown DNA?
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Unknown DNA. So they were thinking, this is our killer. Find the owner of this DNA.
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Find who it is. That's our killer. So let's talk about her roommate. She was the one who found Faith's body and called 911.
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What do we know about her roommate and their relationship? So her name is Karina Rosario, and they were close friends.
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They were really good friends. They met as freshmen. and Faith had temporarily moved in with Karina before the start of the school year while she
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was waiting to move into her own apartment. Okay, so Karina told the police that she was
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at a club with Faith before she was killed. What does she say happened after the club when they
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came home? So Karina said they went back to their apartment and then she says she got picked up by
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a friend around 4.30 in the morning, leaving Faith by herself. And that's the last time anyone saw
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Faith alive. Karina came back to the apartment, she said, around 11 a.m., and that's when she
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found Faith body and called 911 According to a search warrant Karina former boyfriend quickly became a person of interest in the case Why That right Karina ex is a man named Eric Jones And by all accounts
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he did not like Faith. There were witnesses that said he actually said he was going to kill Faith
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if he and Karina did not get back together. And in the summer of 2012, Jones actually broke into
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the apartment that Karina was living in at the time. And Karina filed for a domestic violence
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protection order against Jones. But documents show that, you know, they looked at Jones,
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they took his DNA, they searched his car and his apartment. And most importantly,
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his DNA was not a match at the scene. Almost a decade later, when Olivares is finally arrested
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and charged with the murder, Eric Jones told our NBC affiliate, WRAL, I felt a huge burden off my
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chest and that he hoped Faith's family could get justice. Are you confident that you will not be
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charged. 100%. 100%. I'm not going to say I knew this day was going to come. I pray for it.
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So how did they land on Olivares? It came as a complete surprise to everyone. Certainly, law enforcement has not mentioned
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any connection between Olivares and Faith. But the warrants show that investigators used
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ancestry technology to help identify him. He'd been charged with a DWI, and they took a sample
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of his DNA during that traffic stop, and they matched it to the DNA collected at the apartment
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and in the rape kit. You know, there's going to be a lot of expert testimony at the trial,
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so we'll see what the defense can say about that DNA evidence. His defenses recently filed several motions, and they argued that more testing needs to be
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done on evidence from the crime scene. Yeah. In the filing, they note that police
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took a swab of a two-inch-long bloodstain from the scene, but according to the defense's motion,
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it was never tested to see if it contained DNA from someone other than Faith. So according to the defense, the friend who picked up Karina from the apartment said he noticed blood on her finger when she got in the car and asked her about it.
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He said Karina said she didn't know where it came from. The defense now wants to depose that friend, saying he's a critical witness.
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Has the defense Mike directly implicated Karina in this murder, or are they just trying to offer up alternate theories here?
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Yeah, no, the defense hasn't said explicitly in their motion that they think Karina was involved in the murder.
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But what they are doing is calling the prosecution's theory into question. They seem to be implying that the blood on Karina's finger could have belonged to Faith.
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And if that's the case, that the murder could have happened while Karina was still in the apartment.
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Now, it's important to note that Karina has never been charged with a crime in this case.
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She's never been accused of wrongdoing. She has not commented on the filing. Do we know what the next steps are when the next hearing is going to be in this?
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You know, there was supposed to be a hearing in October that has been canceled. So hopefully something will be scheduled soon and the case will continue to move forward.
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All right. Thank you so much, Mike, for bringing us this update. Thanks for having me, Andrea.
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Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. We've got the latest courtroom drama in the trial of Florida grandmother Donna Adelson.
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and the sentencing of former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini is stopped in its tracks.
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Plus, an inside look at police interrogations and what tactics investigators use to get closer to the truth.
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Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Brad Davis. Hey, Brad.
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Hey, good to see you. For our first story, we're off to Tallahassee, Florida, where trial is finally getting started
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for Donna Adelson, the 75-year-old woman prosecutors say helped orchestrate a murder-for-hire plot
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to kill her former son-in-law, FSU law professor Dan Markell. She has pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation.
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Brad, what is the latest there? Yeah, down here on Monday, it was something interesting.
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The day before the trial was to start, the judge held an emergency hearing to review a request from Donna's daughter, Wendy Adelson, who was married to Dan Markell.
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Donna's defense team had previously issued a subpoena to have Wendy testify, but Wendy asked the judge to quash the subpoena because it wouldn't provide her with immunity for her testimony.
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And in the hearing on Monday, the judge said, yes, the subpoena is quashed. So Wendy won't have to testify for the defense.
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Rod, will we hear from Wendy at all during the trial? This doesn't mean she won't testify.
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She will be called by the state as a prosecution witness, and she will get what's called use immunity for that testimony.
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And the defense can question her on cross-examination if they like. Okay. So Donna's trial is officially underway. How does Donna seem?
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She looked sort of cowering with her lawyers, sort of sitting quietly. She's wearing a sweater because it's really cold in that courtroom. I was cold, so I don't blame her.
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So it'll be interesting to see how everyone perceives her as this goes on. And Brad, we'll continue to talk to you throughout the trial.
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For our next story, we're headed to Auburn, California for news in the case of Dan Serafini.
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He is the former Major League Baseball player who was found guilty in July of shooting his in-laws, Gary Spore and Wendy Wood.
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Gary was killed in the attack. And Brad, what is happening there with that sentencing?
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Well, in the lead up to his scheduled sentencing on Monday, Serafini filed some big motions.
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He got some new attorneys and they then filed a motion asking for a new trial on the basis of juror misconduct.
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With that, they pointed to an interview three jurors did with our NBC affiliate KCRA in the days after the trial ended.
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And we have some of that interview. I couldn't find a single piece of evidence that made me stop and go, oh, maybe it wasn't him.
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I was the one who had to sign the verdict forms And there was a shaky moment It real So the defense didn explain in their filing exactly how those interviews proved juror misconduct took place
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And in a response to those filings, the district attorney pointed out it's perfectly legal for jurors to do interviews after a trial.
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But even so, the judge made a surprising ruling. Right, Brad? On Monday, the judge granted Serafini's motion to pursue a new trial.
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I recognize the difficulty of all of you who have come to see the proceedings, but this is how it needs to operate.
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We need to ensure for both sides to process. So Serafini wasn't sentenced as planned.
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There's going to be a hearing in late October for the judge to hear arguments about a possible new trial.
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And if the judge grants that motion, Serafini's case will go back to court. If the judge denies it, he'll be sentenced immediately.
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What was the response in court to that ruling? The victim's older daughter, Adrienne Spohr, she was silent, but she did look disappointed.
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Meanwhile, her sister, Dan's wife, Erin Spohr, who testified in his defense at trial,
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she's filed for divorce from him and was not present at the sentencing. And for our final story, Brad, we're headed to Connecticut for an update in a case we've covered extensively here at Dateline, the murdered mom of five, Jennifer Doulos.
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She disappeared in May of 2019 while in the throes of a custody battle with her estranged husband, Fotis Doulos.
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Fotis was arrested for Jennifer's suspected murder, but he died by suicide while awaiting trial.
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This news is about Fotis' girlfriend at the time, Michelle Traconis. That's right. Michelle Traconis was found guilty last year of conspiring to murder Jennifer Dulos. She's currently serving a 14-and-a-half-year sentence for that, but she's been working to appeal her conviction, and last week, a judge issued a big ruling in that effort.
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What was the ruling? Well, Troconis has been arguing since last September that her former attorney provided ineffective counsel. She said he didn't properly prepare her before she spoke to police when they were looking for Jennifer Dulos. Troconis says that is enough to warrant her conviction being vacated. That previous attorney of hers, Andrew Bowman, has denied the accusations. But a judge last week ruled that Troconis' petition could move forward to a trial in January.
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So if a jury finds that there was ineffective representation, Michelle Troconis could possibly get her conviction overturned, right?
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That's right. Okay, well, we will make sure to check back in and see where all that goes.
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Thanks for all these updates, Brad. Sure. Thanks, Andrea. Police interviews are at the heart of nearly every Dateline episode and can be a make or break part of any investigation.
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For our last story, we wanted to find out more about what methods investigators rely on to extract information from a suspect.
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even when they don't want to talk. Our next guest, Kristen Barnett, spent hundreds of hours in the
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interview room during her time with the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
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And today, she's going to give us a primer on the techniques she used to get closer to the truth.
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Welcome, Kristen. Thank you so much, Andrea. So let's start from the top. What exactly
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is the goal of an interrogation? The goal of an interrogation is actually not just to get a
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confession. You want to get to the facts of what happened. So what you're really doing is trying to
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find the truth of your entire case. And you have all different kinds of personalities coming in,
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right? You have the ones that are tough and won't say anything and just are angry to be there. And
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then you have probably ones that don't stop talking. Absolutely. And that's why I always
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like doing a baseline interview first. That's where you'll sort of be able to analyze their
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behavior and see what kind of person they are, see how they respond to questions, see how they
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respond to your attempts at rapport building. From there, you can kind of adjust and even maybe
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sort of call it for the day, get more evidence if your investigation is still at that point,
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and then come back later with a much more thorough interview. A question I often ask detectives before an interrogation even happens is,
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what was your strategy going in with the suspect or the person of interest? One of the methods that I always found particularly helpful was
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going in with a game plan to present almost a justification for why they did what they did.
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And with certain cases, this is easier than others. So for example, if they pass counterfeit checks. And say if they have kids going into college, you can say,
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it kind of makes sense why you might want to pass these counterfeit checks, because you need to pay
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for your kid's college tuition. And that's just an example. And most of them are, frankly,
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sort of people-pleasers, sort of someone that wants to give investigators and interrogators
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the information they're looking for. Now, if you do have a subject who's different from that and
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is sort of confrontational, that's where you can go with a more confrontational approach yourself.
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And do you think about what evidence you want to reveal during that interrogation? I mean, sometimes you can be showing too many cards.
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Absolutely. So you may have an ace in your pocket, so to speak, with one piece of evidence, say it's CCTV footage of the subject going into the bank and coming out with a bag of money.
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Obviously, it won't be that obvious, but basically irrefutable evidence. You'll want to reveal that probably last.
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Kristen, you brought up building that rapport with the person you're interrogating. What else can you do to kind of disarm that person, I guess?
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So the interview location is really important as well. So for victim interviews, local police departments, state, federal agencies, for the most part, all have this ability to hold the victim interview in what we would call, at least anyway in the military, a soft room.
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So it's a room that's more warmly lit, has couches, tissue boxes, water, and the couches
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and chairs are in a less aggressive position as opposed to a subject interview room where
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the hardback chairs are facing each other. They're close. You're more in their space.
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So the layout of the room and how things are positioned actually makes a big difference
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in throwing someone off balance. Yeah. The white hot spotlight. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
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Exactly. What happens if they just won't crack? That's where you want to be strategic about the breaks you take.
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So you may want to leave the room for up to an hour almost. You can have them sit there and wait in terms of a subject and become more and more comfortable, be more and more in their own head, and maybe think about what's going on here and things at stake.
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What do you think the key is? And I know every case is different, but to getting a confession?
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I think that really comes back down to that relationship you've established with the person sitting across from you. Keep them talking.
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Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes people just want to get it off their chest. Exactly.
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And then on the flip side of that, any lawyer is going to tell you to keep your mouth shut if you're in an interrogation room.
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Right. Yes. That's pretty much tip number one. If you're called to be questioned by law enforcement in a subject and derogation matter, probably best to retain a lawyer.
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Kristen, yeah, thank you so much for giving us this glimpse into what goes on in the interview room.
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Absolutely. No problem. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. My friend and colleague, Blaine Alexander, will be here next week.
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And coming up this Friday on Dateline Blaine has a classic episode After a woman is found dead in a house fire investigators quickly learn the flames didn kill her She was murdered But the identity of her killer remains a mystery for 30 years until a witness makes a shocking confession
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That's when I said, what's going on? And she couldn't not tell me. Watch Justice for Joy this Friday at 9, 8 central.
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And one last thing before we go, we wanted to remind you that Dateline is hitting the road next month.
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And we'd love for you to join us. On Sunday, September 28th, the whole team will be in Nashville for Dateline Live.
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It's a first-of-a-kind event featuring onstage panels, audience Q&As, and a VIP reception.
00:25:54
Tickets are on sale now at datelinenbc.com forward slash event. You can also find a link in the description of this episode.
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Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson.
00:26:07
Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kurloff.
00:26:13
Production and fact-checking helped by Mackenzie Matwick and Terry Dickerson. Veronica Mazzica is our digital producer.
00:26:19
Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.
00:26:25
Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Kohl is senior executive producer of Dateline.
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All right, anything else? Okay, thank you.