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Good morning. It's time for the Dateline morning meeting. So, kind of bombshell here.
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Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas. What did the daughter plead guilty to?
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We don't have a motive either. She leaves them a pretty hefty inheritance to split, about a million dollars.
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Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's October 2nd, and here's what's on our docket.
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Family drama in a Mississippi courtroom as a man accused of murder comes face-to-face with the prosecution's star witness, his own daughter.
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He said that he did what he had to do, that the less I knew, the better. In Dateline Roundup, updates in the cases of Donna Adelson, Nicholas Rossi, and Sean Combs.
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The prosecution said that Sean Combs is unrepentant and he should be punished. Plus, they cost Americans over a billion dollars each year.
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Spam texts and phone calls. NBC News Senior Chief Investigative Consumer Correspondent Vicki Nguyen is back to tell us what to watch out for.
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I know we want to be polite and answer calls when people call us. Do not answer.
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Before all that, we're off to a Texas courthouse and the trial of a woman accused of murdering her fifth husband.
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This week, Sarah Hartsfield's murder trial got underway in a Chambers County courthouse.
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She's the former Army sergeant and five-time bride accused of fatally poisoning her diabetic husband,
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Joe Hartsfield, with a toxic dose of insulin. She has pleaded not guilty. The prosecutor laid out her case against Sarah during her opening statements on Tuesday,
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claiming most of the evidence is from Sarah herself, that her own words and actions will point towards her guilt.
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The prosecution urged jurors to pay close attention to Sarah in the courtroom, saying she would be on and ready to perform.
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And that's not all that different from what we heard when Dateline aired Along Came Sarah in 2023.
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Keith Morrison and a team of Dateline producers zigzagged across the country and talked to people who saw the many faces of Sarah.
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I really feared for my life. She's smart as a whip and can manipulate a situation
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to her advantage in a heartbeat. Joining me now is Dateline senior producer, Susan Leibowitz, who's been in court this week
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to share what she's learned at trial so far. Thanks for joining us. Howdy. Susan, it's been over two and a half years since Joe Hartsfield's death. Remind us what happened.
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So on January 7th, 2023, Sarah Hartsfield calls 911 and she would later tell investigators that
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she found her husband, who's a diabetic, unresponsive after his blood sugar had dropped
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drastically. Joe was rushed to the hospital where they tried everything, but none of the typical
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treatments work, and quickly the ER team suspected foul play. A nurse called the local authorities
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and within hours, deputies from Chambers County Sheriff's Office arrived at the hospital
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asking questions. Okay, so Joe remained unresponsive for eight days before his wife,
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Sarah, decided to take him off life support. And about a month after his death, there was news that
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she was charged with his murder. That's right. So the autopsy didn't actually say it was homicide,
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But they found a cause, complications of toxic effects of insulin. So it was that cause, plus the evidence and information from Joe's family that led investigators to believe Sarah was responsible.
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Which brings us to Monday of this week. Her trial began. It took about seven hours to seat a jury.
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Jury selection can be uneventful, but there was some drama when the Chambers County Sheriff talked to our local NBC affiliate, KPRC, in the early afternoon.
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Susan, what happened? So Sheriff Brian Hawthorne, it was his detectives from Chambers County Sheriff's Office that handled the investigation into Joe's death.
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He spoke to the press about what we can expect from trial over the next week or so.
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He talked about what she'll be wearing and where she's being held. But when he was asked about the national attention this case has brought, he mentioned Sarah's past.
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When we started looking at her history and then finding out some of the other scenarios and situations that she has been involved with in other states,
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We have other cases that have been reopened in other states, and I'm glad they have reopened those cases because I feel like they're probably going to find a very similar scenario as to what we have.
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And then the sheriff went on to speak more generally about Sarah. She's not that kind, sleepy little person that she makes herself out to be.
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You can just look at her overall history and you can tell that there's a very evil side to her.
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So the sheriff is alluding to events in Sarah's past, some of which we talked about last week, like the shooting death of her fiance back in 2018.
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She claimed that she fired in self-defense and the county attorney agreed and never filed any criminal charges.
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But because of those comments made by the sheriff, the prosecution and defense attorneys immediately asked the judge to issue a gag order on the trial.
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He denied that request. But Susan, it sounds like the sheriff won't be talking again anytime soon.
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Since the sheriff made a statement, he's now been named a witness and witnesses are not
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allowed to make statements. So we will not be hearing from him until after trial.
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Opening statements got underway Tuesday morning and the prosecution laid out its case against
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Sarah. That's right. Prosecutor Mallory Barias said Sarah and Joe seemed very happy at first.
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She mentioned it was a whirlwind romance and that that whirlwindness of it all sort of concealed Sarah's true nature.
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And the prosecutor said the volume of evidence is by Sarah's own doing, that she can't help Sarah, can't help but explain what she did.
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She told jurors to pay attention to what she says and what she doesn't say and pay attention to the timing.
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And like most cases on Dateline, this one is circumstantial. There are only two people in the house when Joe's insulin dropped, Sarah and Joe.
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So there are no other witnesses and they are not expecting any smoking gun or DNA or anything like that How did the defense handle its opening statement The defense said Joe administered the toxic dose of insulin himself that he wasn good at taking care of himself
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and that was just an example of that. At the time of his death, Sarah was not in a normal state of
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mind, they said. She had had surgery and was on narcotics, and so she couldn't really help him.
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They said that how she handled Joe's crashing blood sugar level was not good, but it wasn't a
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crime. The state's first witness was the victim's mother, Helen Hartsfield. Joe's mom was very
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emotional, and she testified how the couple would often argue. They'd argue about Joe and money.
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In some instances, the fighting was so bad, Sarah would even lock Joe out of their house.
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The prosecutor asked Joe's mom about the day he was rushed to the hospital and asked her if she
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was surprised. And she answered she wasn't surprised, that she figured something would
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happened to her son. She testified that her son towards the end appeared fearful. She also
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mentioned how Sarah told her once that she had shot and killed a man in self-defense.
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And that knowledge remained in the back of her head as she worried about what would happen to
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her, Joe. Joe's mom was getting emotional, Susan, talking about him in the hospital. And you say
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that also Sarah at the defendant's table was tearing up too. She was. I mean, she was definitely
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looking emotional. On cross, Joe's mom was asked about what you mentioned, Susan, about that
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shooting and self-defense that she said Sarah had told her about. That's right. Sarah's defense
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attorney wanted Helen to confirm that Sarah was never arrested or charged in the shooting of her
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ex-boyfriend. And so she didn't. She wasn't. She got a ruling of self-defense, so there was no
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criminal charges. Well, Susan, we're expecting the trial to last, what, about two more weeks-ish?
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Everything goes super fast in Texas. We will certainly be keeping an eye on this one.
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Susan, talk to you again about it. Sure thing. Thanks for having me. Coming up, three members of a Mississippi family were charged with murder.
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Only one of them went to trial. This week, it came to a dramatic conclusion. On December 2nd, 2022, Caitlin Spence called 911.
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She told the dispatcher that she had found the body of her boyfriend, a successful young businessman by the name of Kirby Carpenter,
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under a tarp outside their Mississippi home. He'd been shot in the neck and chest.
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Kirby's murder went unsolved for exactly one year until authorities arrested none other than Caitlin and her parents.
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All three Spence family members were charged with murder, conspiracy, and larceny.
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All three pleaded not guilty. But then, in April of this year, Caitlin changed her tune.
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She pleaded guilty to a lesser charge and promised to testify against her parents.
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A few months later, her mother took a plea too. That left one Spence family member to stand trial for Kirby's murder.
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Caitlin's dad, Jeff Spence. Last week, his trial began in the Pontotoc County Courthouse.
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This week, it came to a dramatic conclusion. My next guest is Dateline booking producer Rachel White.
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She has been in the courtroom every day of his trial and is here to bring us up to speed.
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Thanks so much for joining us, Rachel. Thanks for having me. Rachel, before we go any further, tell us more about the victim here, Kirby Carpenter.
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Sure. His kind of defining characteristic, other than being a very successful businessman, was that he was a loving father of two, very involved in both of his children's lives.
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He was a rare metals dealer and collector. He owned a liquor store. And, you know, he was involved in a lot of different businesses and had a lot of success fairly young.
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Tell us about his relationship with Caitlin Spence. Sure. So he started dating Caitlin back in 2020.
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And a few months later, she moved into the Tippa County home where he lived. And then Caitlin got pregnant and gave birth to their daughter in July of 2022.
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Caitlin's parents came to help out with the baby from out of state. That's right.
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They ended up staying through November 29th, 2022, when they finally drove back to Virginia.
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And the very next day, Kirby Carpenter was killed? Correct. So Caitlin says she woke up the morning of November 30th and dropped the baby off at her
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friend's house because she had to go to work. And then Caitlin ran some errands in the evening.
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Kirby had gone to Kroger to get groceries. Investigators say that when he pulled into
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their house, someone gunned him down. And they say that Kirby's body was then covered in a tarp.
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It wasn't until two days later on December 2nd that Caitlin discovered Kirby's body there.
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Rachel, Caitlin called 911 and authorities started investigating right away, of course.
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what are the initial theories from law enforcement as to who and you know what might have happened to
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him and why i think that they very quickly started looking at the spence family but they also had to
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realize that kirby's businesses put him out there he was very well known and he had a lot of money
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and he you know dealt a lot in cash they really had to do a lot of work and look at everyone
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Okay, clearly police dismissed that theory about a robbery because they arrested Caitlin and her parents, Jeff and Karen Spence.
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You know, what led them to the whole family? So Jeff and Karen Spence returned to Mississippi the day after Caitlin said that she discovered Kirby's body.
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Kirby's family told investigators that they noticed that the codes on the safes where he stored valuables had been changed.
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And they began to theorize that the Spences had stolen some of those valuables. Kirby's mother said she saw Jeff Spence placing bags of Kirby silver in the back of his car that day.
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There was also something that one of Kirby's former employees told police. He said that at Kirby funeral Caitlin allegedly told him quote Daddy killed Kirby Rachel break down what authorities think each person did mother father daughter So prosecutors say that Jeff was the one who pulled the trigger
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They allege that Karen and Caitlin knew about the plot to some degree and hid their knowledge
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from police. So after a year of being in custody, Caitlin turned on her dad and took a plea. Her mom,
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Karen also took the plea, as we mentioned at the top. What changed? We don't really know what changed. Caitlin ultimately pleaded guilty to a reduced charge
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of accessory to murder after the fact. She was preemptively sentenced to 10 years in prison.
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Karen Spence took an Alford plea, meaning she didn't admit guilt, but she did concede there
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would be enough evidence against her for a conviction on a lesser charge, which was accessory
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after the fact to grand larceny. And she ended up getting a 10-year sentence, but that was suspended.
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So instead, she'll get five years probation. Jeff Spence finally went on trial last week.
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Tell us about the opening statements. So the prosecutor kept his opening statement relatively short.
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He gave a brief timeline of the day that Kirby was killed, and then he talked about a possible motive.
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What was his motive? It's an old story. Money. Grief. And what about the defense's opening statement?
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So Jeff Spence's attorney focused on putting doubt into the timeline. Remember, we said earlier that Jeff and Karen drove home to Virginia, which is about nine, 10 hours away the day before Kirby's murder.
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This really became a family affair at trial when Caitlin took the stand to testify against her dad. How did that go?
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Caitlin says that she had a conversation with her dad, Jeff Spence, between April and June of 2023. She says that he essentially confessed to murdering Kirby to her in that conversation.
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He said that he did what he had to do, that the less I knew, the better. The prosecutor also had Caitlin read some text messages in a group chat with her and her parents.
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Right. These messages were from 2021. And Caitlin was asking them for advice about opening a business and asked what kind of business she should open.
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And what was your dad's response? Assassins, Inc. Assassins, Inc. Yes. How did Jeff Spence's attorney handle Caitlin on cross-examination?
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David Hill, the attorney for Jeff Spence, doubled down on the fact that she'd taken a plea agreement to be there.
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You were offered an opportunity to get out of this case, get out of jail, freeing you up to hold your baby again, right?
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Your Honor, I'll get to the level of the question. The jury heard from Caitlin, the daughter, but they did not get to hear from Jeff's wife, Karen. Why not?
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Despite taking an Alford plea, she invoked spousal privilege so she wouldn't have to take the stand against him.
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Rachel, then it was time for the defense. Yes, and Jeff Spence's attorney quickly made a motion asking for a direct verdict.
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He said the state hadn't presented enough evidence against Jeff, but the judge denied that motion.
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The defense then rested immediately. They didn't call any witnesses or present any evidence of Jeff's innocence.
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So interesting. The jury deliberated for over four and a half hours, and then you got a surprise in the courtroom.
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Yeah, they couldn't decide. They came back out and said they were evenly split down the middle,
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six, six, no one budged. And so the judge declared a mistrial. Did they give any indication, Rachel, as to why they could not agree?
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I think it's too soon to say. The prosecutors are already preparing to seek a retrial. It's
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looking like that might happen in February. And Jeff Spence will remain in custody until that time.
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And this was really emotional, obviously, for Kirby's family. Kirby has a big family,
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a supportive family. Being told that, you know, the fight for justice continues was not easy to hear.
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Thank you so much, Rachel, for bringing us this story. And we will absolutely continue to follow
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So updates as we get them. Thanks. Yes. Thank you. Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup.
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Updates in the cases of Donna Adelson, Nicholas Rossi, and Sean Combs. Plus, NBC News Chief Investigative Consumer Correspondent Vicky Nguyen has got some tips for us on how to avoid what's becoming a billion-dollar scam.
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Imposter texts. Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Brad Davis.
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Welcome back to the podcast, Brad. Thanks, Andrea. So for our first story, we are headed back to Florida for a story you have been working on for a very long time, Brad.
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The Donna Adelson saga. Last month, you were in the courtroom as Donna was convicted of first-degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation in the murder for hire of Dan Markell, her former son-in-law.
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Brad, what's the latest? Well, shortly after she was found guilty, Donna's defense team requested a new trial.
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And in the motion, they said that the way the judge spoke to the defense indicated he preferred one verdict over another.
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And they also argued that there was evidence that should have been admitted but wasn't.
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The defense also alleged juror misconduct and asked the court to interview two members of the jury, number five and number seven.
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Yeah. Why did they want to talk to these jurors? They took issue with jury number five appearing on a podcast called Surviving the Survivor, although we should point out that that happened after the verdict.
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The defense said that the juror commented on Donna's facial expressions and reactions,
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which they're not supposed to do. For juror number seven, the defense said she posted on TikTok about her selection
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as a juror in the middle of the trial. Wow, so social media getting intertwined with all of this, Brad.
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The judge, though, not buying the defense's arguments? That's correct. The judge denied the motion for a new trial.
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He didn have any issue with the evidence admitted and said he didn find juror misconduct He said the jurors are permitted to observe the defendant And interestingly the judge found that the TikTok post did not violate any of the rules of the court saying it didn count as communication about the case since it dealt with serving on a jury not the case
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He also addressed accusations that he showed favoritism to the prosecution. In particular, Donna wasn't given enough time to decide if she would testify.
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I remember when that happened and it was very dramatic. In the order, the judge said that she was given sufficient time to decide and wrote,
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She made, quote, a knowing, voluntary and intelligent decision not to testify. Brad, up next, we're heading to Utah for a story I know very well, the case of Nicholas Rossi, who has been known in the past as Nicholas Aliverdian or Arthur Knight.
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He is the man accused of faking his own death and fleeing to Scotland to evade sexual assault allegations.
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I interviewed him for an episode of Dateline in one of the most memorable interviews of my career.
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Let's take a listen. What do you say to someone who believes that you are Nicholas Alavardian?
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I am not Andrea. I am not Nicholas Alavardian. I do not know how to make this clear.
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Did you sexually assault anyone? Did you kidnap anyone? Did you defraud anyone? What? No, no, no, no.
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Brad, remind us what happened over the summer in this case. Of course, Nicholas Rossi was extradited back to Utah. And from there, he faced some very serious allegations.
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Yes. In August, Rossi was found guilty by a Salt Lake City jury of raping his former fiance. He's facing a sentence of five years to life in prison there. There was also a second trial in Utah. And in that case, he was accused of rape by an ex-girlfriend. That case now has a verdict, too. Guilty.
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And they were both quick, quick trials and quick verdicts. Rossi denied any wrongdoing in both cases. Do we know if he is planning to appeal these verdicts?
00:20:00
Yes, we do. His defense attorney, Utah County Public Defender Daniel Diaz, said that they would appeal and declined to comment any further.
00:20:07
No surprise there, but I'm sure we'll be seeing more of Nicholas Rossi. finally we've got the latest in the case of sean combs as listeners may remember in july he was
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found guilty at a federal trial on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution
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he was acquitted on more serious charges including racketeering and sex trafficking
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he is set to be sentenced on friday big day what is going on ahead of that brad i know there's been
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a lot of uh filings and rumblings out there yes a lot of back and forth the prosecution filed a
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189-page submission to the court just after midnight on Monday. They argued that Combs
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should serve 135 months in prison, which is more than 11 years. The maximum for each charge is 10
00:20:50
years. But the prosecution said that Sean Combs is unrepentant and he should be punished. They went
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on to write that he, quote, engaged in violence and put others in fear. And this submission included
00:21:00
letters from people in his world who asked the judge to give Combs a harsh sentence, including
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Cassie, you know, who was arguably the star witness. Yes, that's true. Cassie Ventura,
00:21:12
that was one of the letters. That was Cum's former girlfriend who testified at the trial
00:21:16
about their relationship. She wrote in this statement that she still has nightmares and
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flashbacks from the so-called freak-offs that were a big focus during the trial.
00:21:25
And the defense had their own submission to the court? That's correct. They asked that Cum served no more than 14 months in prison,
00:21:32
and he's already served almost 13 months, so that would likely see him out of custody in just a
00:21:36
matter of weeks. The defense also said that Combs' legacy has been destroyed. His life in prison has
00:21:43
included threats of violence and a constant suicide watch. They also argued that the jury
00:21:49
sent a message by finding him not guilty of the more serious charges in the case.
00:21:53
This sentencing will happen on Friday, of course, and we will keep you posted on what happens. Brad,
00:21:58
thanks so much for joining us today. Glad to be here. It's happened to all of us.
00:22:03
You check your phone and see you've got a text from a strange number and someone is asking you for money or personal information.
00:22:10
Usually those spam messages are simply annoying, but sometimes they find their mark and can lead to fraud or identity theft.
00:22:17
According to the latest data from the Federal Trade Commission, consumers lost $1.9 billion last year to what are known as imposter scams.
00:22:26
Here to talk to us about ways to protect our money and our personal information from fraudsters is NBC News' chief consumer investigative correspondent, Vicky Nguyen.
00:22:36
Hey, Vicky. Hey, Andrea. Always good to be with you. Thanks for coming back. I just wanted to ask you about something that's been happening to me lately where I get these texts from unknown numbers and they're from different parts of the country and they're like, what are you bringing over for dinner tonight?
00:22:51
And I'm like, wait, do I know this? I don't think I know this person, but I don't ever respond.
00:22:56
So what are those? Isn't it so obnoxious? It's like the scammers have figured out another way
00:23:02
to try to get you to respond with sort of a familiar tone. They want you to say like,
00:23:06
wait, who's this? And then get you entrapped into a conversation. So when you get a text like that,
00:23:13
unless you recognize the number, do not respond. All right. Let's talk about these spam calls that
00:23:20
are more to the point about needing money, that kind of thing. Maybe a little more obvious than
00:23:25
the other ones we were just talking about. Exactly. And just here's a number that will
00:23:30
blow your mind, Andrea. According to YouMail's latest robocall index, they say that consumers
00:23:35
here in the U.S. receive 2.6 billion spam or telemarketing calls in just one month. And where
00:23:43
it gets really dangerous is scammers are pretending to be someone that you might know or trust like a
00:23:48
family member, but also someone maybe from your bank or even an IRS agent or someone from a
00:23:53
government agency, a sheriff's department, for example. And these messages come with a sense of urgency and
00:24:00
often come with sort of a threat of penalty if you don't respond. But just a reminder,
00:24:04
if the IRS needs to get a hold of you, you'll get a letter. And Vicki, you actually got a scam text over the summer and you posted on Instagram about it. Tell
00:24:12
us your story. Oh, my gosh, Andrea. This is it's almost embarrassing. But at the same time,
00:24:18
I'm actually really happy it happened to me because now I know from the inside how easily
00:24:24
you can be fooled. So I was number one, distracted and in a hurry. I was on my way to catch a flight
00:24:32
at the airport. So I get a text and it says, Hey, here's your Coinbase access code. Call us if you
00:24:39
didn't request this. And I actually have a Coinbase account. It's so that you can manage crypto,
00:24:43
but I don't use it very often. I made the mistake of calling the number that was in the text and
00:24:50
someone answered sounding quite official. And I go, Hey, I got this text. I didn't request an access
00:24:55
code And the person led me down a path starting to use these technical terms things that sound plausible things that sound like someone has accessed my account Then next thing I say I want to close this account anyway So he like here what I going to need you to do I need you to go into the Apple App Store and I going to need you to download a secure wallet
00:25:14
I actually downloaded the app. And then he's like, okay, you're going to need to transfer
00:25:18
whatever's in your Coinbase account to this secure wallet so that when you're in the skies,
00:25:23
no one's accessing your Coinbase. So I say, you know what, let me call you back. I'm not familiar
00:25:26
with this app. I'm not sure how it works. I need to do some more research. So I hang up.
00:25:29
I get a call back and it's another guy and he goes, oh, I'm the supervisor of so-and-so who you were just talking to.
00:25:35
And we really want to make sure you secure your account. And at this point, like the fog has lifted.
00:25:40
And I'm thinking, oh, my God, I literally almost just got scammed. I'm looking back at the text, realizing that text didn't come from Coinbase.
00:25:47
And I hang up on the person. It's very easy to become a victim and you should never be ashamed.
00:25:53
And I'm not ashamed. I'm glad it happened to me so I could talk about it. What is the number one thing we can do if we see these scam calls popping up on our phone?
00:26:00
I know we want to be polite and answer calls when people call us. Do not answer. That's number one.
00:26:06
There also if you have an Apple phone sometimes it show up and say hey this is potential spam which is great You just hit the power button and it sends it right to your voicemail Android phones also have special tools in the settings where you can go in and just say
00:26:17
block spam calls. And also, Vicki, you can report them too, right? Yes, you definitely can.
00:26:23
And you can also, to block spam on your phone, you can also copy the message and forward
00:26:28
it to 7726, which spells out the word spam. And that lets your wireless carrier know, okay, this is a number that's sending spam
00:26:35
to people and that will help them block the call before it ever gets to your phone as well.
00:26:39
Vicki, thank you as always for such great tips. We very much appreciate it and need this.
00:26:45
Yes, thank you. I'm glad to be of use. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Make sure to check out Josh's
00:26:54
original podcast series, Deadly Engagement, about the murder of a promising young graduate
00:26:59
student in North Carolina. Was it a love triangle that turned deadly? I was shocked. It was nothing there to make you doubt their love and where they were headed.
00:27:09
All episodes are available to binge now wherever you get your podcasts To get ad listening for all our podcasts subscribe to Dateline Premium on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or DatelinePremium And coming up this Friday on Dateline Keith has a
00:27:24
brand new episode. An acupuncturist is gunned down in his office in Hawaii. Was it business
00:27:30
or something more personal? We're talking thousands of messages that were intimate in nature
00:27:38
and explicit. Watch The Bucket Hat Mystery on Friday at 9, 8 central. Thanks for listening.
00:27:46
Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producer
00:27:51
is Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Production and fact-checking
00:27:56
help by Logan Johnson, Sara Kadir and Audrey Abrahams. Veronica Mazzaka is our digital producer.
00:28:02
Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.
00:28:08
Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.
00:28:13
Thank you. Bye.