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It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast

November 09, 2022 / 16:05

This episode features Edward Crawford and Robert Cohen discussing the Ferguson protests following the shooting of Michael Brown in 2014. Key topics include the emotional atmosphere of the protests, the police response, and the iconic photograph taken by Robert of Edward throwing a tear gas canister.

Edward Crawford recounts his experience at the protests, describing the anger and chaos he witnessed as police confronted demonstrators. He shares his feelings of being overwhelmed by the situation and the fear that arose when police began using tear gas.

Robert Cohen, a photojournalist, details capturing the moment when Edward picked up the tear gas canister, highlighting the significance of the photograph that went viral. He reflects on how the image became a symbol of defiance and was later recognized with a Pulitzer Prize.

As the episode progresses, both men discuss their unexpected connection formed during the protests and the impact of the photograph on their lives. Edward expresses gratitude towards Robert for his work, despite facing legal challenges related to the incident.

The episode concludes with a reflection on the ongoing tensions in Ferguson and the lasting legacy of the protests, as well as the personal stories of those involved.

TLDR

Edward Crawford and Robert Cohen discuss the Ferguson protests, the iconic tear gas photo, and their unexpected connection during the events.

Episode

16:05
00:00:02
Edward Crawford: The plan was actually, I was  just going out there to be nosy. I wanted to
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see what the protest was looking like because  I had called my brother and he said, “They're
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protesting.” And, you know, I didn't know what a  protest was. Well, I knew what it was, but I had
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never seen one in person. I'd read about them  in school, so I wanted to see one in person.
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Phoebe Judge: This is Edward Crawford. On  August 11th, 2014, just a few days after
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18-year-old Michael Brown was shot and killed  by officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri,
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Edward Crawford went to his first protest. Edward Crawford: There was a lot of people, angry.
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I'd seen signs, hear people chanting, using  profanity. I mean, they were mad, you know? The
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emotion was at an all-time high. It was  overwhelming. There were people crying.
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I don't know if those relatives or friends  of Mike Brown, but it was different. It was
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something I never experienced in my life. Phoebe Judge: That's how he described his
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first day of demonstrations. When  he went back out the next night, August 12, it was a different story. Edward Crawford: The people out there, like,
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they were protesting. They were angry at the  police, and the police were angry at the people
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that were protesting, you know? So, it's like  both sides were antagonizing each other. And,
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you know, the police, they were out  there to do their jobs. But the people, I guess they were out there to be heard. Phoebe Judge: The police at some point,
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they started lining up with riot gear. What did  that look like to you? Is that when things started
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to seem scary, or that things were changing? Edward Crawford: That looked like something you
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see on a movie. They were very tactical,  you can tell that they had been through
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very prestigious training, you know? Like the  formation, even when they move, they move all
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on one — it seemed like they were on one beat,  if that's what you call it, I don't know. But
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it was organized and they were chanting,  like, "Go home. This is not a lawful protest anymore. Please return home." And then,  there were people saying, like, “This is home.”
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Phoebe Judge: This whole scene was  well-documented in the media at the time. The conflict between protesters  and law enforcement reached fever-pitch.
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And when the protesters refused to disperse, the  police started firing at the crowd with rubber
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bullets, wooden pellets, and tear gas canisters. Edward Crawford: So, when they shot the tear gas,
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it landed fairly close. And the sound of,  I don't know, I'm pretty sure you haven't
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heard a tear gas shot. It's a loud — it sounds  like a grenade is going off when it's shot.
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And when it's first shot, it's, like, real  smoky in the sky. And then you can follow
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the smoke trail and you'll see where it  lands. And it landed fairly close to me.
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Phoebe Judge: What did it look like when it  landed? How big is it? Like a spray paint can?
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Edward Crawford: No, it's actually  smaller. It's like a 12-ounce soda can. Phoebe Judge: And it was smoking? Edward Crawford: Yeah. At the time,
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it looked like a fire. Phoebe Judge: What did it feel like when you picked it up?
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Edward Crawford: It was room temperature. It  wasn't hot. It really didn't have a distinctive
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feeling, like, to where if you touch it,  you will know that, OK, this is not good.
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Phoebe Judge: What did you do with it? Edward Crawford: I threw it out of the way.
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Phoebe Judge: You threw it just out of the way, or  did you throw it... which way did you throw it?
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Edward Crawford: I really didn't aim for a  direction, because I didn't have time to even
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think to where I was going to throw it. Phoebe Judge: But did you throw it the way that it had come? Edward Crawford: Possibly did.
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Phoebe Judge: And so, the way that it had come was  where the police were? Edward Crawford: I mean,
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I guess you could say that. Robert Cohen: My name is Robert Cohen. I'm a  staff photographer at the St. Louis
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Post-Dispatch. I've been in St. Louis for 16  years. I've been a photojournalist for about 30
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years. And I kind of saw it unfolding. Some of the first pictures I shot was Ed reaching down for the canister. And as  he's reaching down, the sparks are flying
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out of it and he actually leaves his  feet. He just kind of jumps out of the way because as he's reaching down, the  sparks are starting to fly and so, he
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kind of jumps out of the way, and then reaches  back down again and throws it. And, you know,
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at this point, I'm just trying to get things  in focus. And quite frankly, I'm looking at
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my watch because we have a potential headline  in the newspaper the next morning, which was
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going to reflect something like a calm night  in Ferguson. And here we are, pushing midnight
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and the whole night has changed radically. Phoebe Judge: Robert hurried to his car to start
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to edit the photographs he'd taken of Ed. And Ed,  who had no idea he'd been photographed, hurried to
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his friend's car to try to get out of there. The  two men hadn't met — at least not yet, anyway.
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I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Edward Crawford: After this tear gas was shot,  my friend, she was like, “OK,
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let's go. It's getting dangerous, let's go.” Phoebe Judge: Ed ran through the crowds to his
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friend's car, which was parked in a nearby church  parking lot. The police were right behind him.
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Edward Crawford: And they were yelling, "Stop!"  So, I hurried up and I unlocked the car and I
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locked the back as I got into the car. And now  I'm on the passenger side. I tried to crawl up
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to the driver's side, but at that time, I can see  now that the car is surrounded, because I don't
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see the light anymore. And the car was basically  rocking. They were all around the car and they
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were hitting it, and I guess  one officer bust the window and opened the door. Then another officer  grabbed me by the shirt and by the hair,
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and they swung me to the ground. Phoebe Judge: Meanwhile, Robert was sitting in his
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car with his laptop editing the photographs he'd  taken of Ed, and rushing to get them to his editor
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before the newspaper's deadline. When you look at  the series — we've got them up on our site — it's
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almost like a flip book. You can see Ed jumping  over the burning gas canister on the ground,
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the space under his feet and legs illuminated  by the sparks and smoke. Then you can see the
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moment where Ed reaches down with what looks like  no hesitation and picks up the burning canister.
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Those pictures are powerful in their own  right, to see a person grab this ball of fire.
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But it was one of the last pictures that  Robert took that made him realize he'd captured
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something special. It's Ed in a full baseball  pitcher stance. His body is arched backwards,
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his arms stretched out and made bright  by that burning can in his hand. Robert Cohen: I did not — you know, the  symbolism that holds so strong in this image,
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with the exception of the act of defiance and  the fighting back and all the themes a lot of
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people talk about. It's held together by the  fact that he's got an American flag shirt on.
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I did not see that shirt. I did not see that  shirt while I was photographing. You know,
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all I see is a man come out of nowhere and pick  up this canister and throw it back. And so,
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I didn't actually appreciate that extra nugget  until I was at my car whipping open my laptop,
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really trying to make deadline. Phoebe Judge: Robert missed his deadline by just 15 minutes and went home. He decided  to post the photo on his personal Twitter
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feed and went to bed. When he woke up, he knew  something was going on. He had about 8,000 new
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Twitter followers. The photo had gone completely  viral overnight and taken on a life of its own.
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Robert Cohen: Less than 48 hours after I shot this  photo, I'm at the Michael Brown Memorial and a man
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shows up in a T-shirt with Ed's picture on it.  And so I'm photographing this man at the memorial
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dressed in my picture. It's bizarre. And  since that point, there's been hundreds of
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things sent to me, things sent to Ed, artists’  rendering. People will just... They decide they
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want to paint this picture, and they have a  need to send it to us. Two people, one in LA,
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one I don't know where, had it tattooed on their  body. One on their shoulder, one on their bicep.
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In New Orleans, there's a big art project,  and Ed is four stories tall. It's amazing
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how people feel a need to reproduce it. Phoebe Judge: Not only has the photograph
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that Robert took of Ed become an iconic image of  the Ferguson protest, it was also part of a group
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of photographs taken after the shooting of Michael  Brown by photographers at the St. Louis Dispatch
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that would go on to win the Pulitzer Prize. Edward Crawford: You know, a lot of people see the
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image and they don't know it's me, but me knowing  it's me, and I just sit back and think like, “Wow,
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they really appreciate this picture.” And to some extent I feel like, “OK, well,
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they appreciate me because they  feel what I did was right.” So, I'm cool with it. Phoebe Judge:
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On the one-year anniversary of Michael  Brown's death, this past August, people in Ferguson gathered once again  for what started off, by all accounts,
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as a peaceful demonstration. On the night of the  second day of protest however, things escalated
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between the police and protesters once again. And  Robert Cohen was back out there with his camera.
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Robert Cohen: The police came out  very aggressively that night, and they were moving protesters out of the street  much more aggressively than they were before.
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Phoebe Judge: Robert says he was standing with a  group of protesters who had, for the most part,
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complied with the officers' requests and gotten  out of the street and onto the sidewalk.
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Edward Crawford: But there was one protester  that was still yelling at the officers pretty
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loudly. And the county officer just decided to  arrest him, and instead of spraying him with
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pepper spray alone, he sprayed a pretty  wide stream. And my body, my upper body,
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was just drenched. My arms, my shirt, my hair. Phoebe Judge: He had photographed a lot of people
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being tear-gassed and pepper-sprayed  in Ferguson. But this was the first time he'd experienced it himself. Robert Cohen: Everywhere it was touching
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me, it was burning. I mean, it's oil-based, which  I did not know at the time. And so, water only
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makes it worse. And I was carrying a separate lens  in a little fanny pack and the lens jumped out of
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the fanny pack as I probably just kind of dove out  of the way. And I went to reach for the lens to
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pick it up off the ground, and somebody else's  hand grabs it before I grab it. And he says,
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“Are you OK? Are you OK?” I was like — I didn't  even see Ed, and I knew it was Ed. And look
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who's bending down to help me out? It was crazy. Phoebe Judge: Ed was also at the protest, but this
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time he was watching from a distance when he saw  the police spray the crowd and then he saw Robert.
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Almost exactly one year to the  day, Robert and Ed met again. Ed, what did Robert look... Did he  look like he was in bad shape?
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Edward Crawford: Yeah, he looked like  he had left a confetti party and it was silly string all over him, but I knew  what it was. It was orange pepper spray.
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And when it initially was shot, I'd seen that it  had got him right in the face, but I didn't know
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if he had got it in his eyes. So of course,  you know, he's carrying thousands of dollars
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of equipment, and at that time, he seemed very  vulnerable to the typical snatch and grab which
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was going on a lot down there that night. And I'd  hate to see that happen to Robert. So, you know, I
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kind of tried to guide him out of the way, out of  the crowd, and just make sure he was all right.
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Robert Cohen: And he did. Phoebe Judge: You both have come into each other's lives at rather important times. Edward Crawford: Yeah, I feel that it's true.
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Because anytime I see him, he's always going to  get — he's always going to get a, “Hey Robert,
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how you doing? How's it going?” He's always going  to be acknowledged on my end. And, you know,
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that's just the utmost respect I have for him. Phoebe Judge: But the complicated thing is that
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Robert's Pulitzer Prize-winning photo is  also undeniable proof that Ed was the guy
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who threw that tear gas canister. Edward Crawford: I'm often asked: am I mad at him for taking that picture, you  know, seeing that I'm facing charges? And no,
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I'm not mad. He did an amazing job. And every time  I see him, I make sure I show gratitude. Because
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whether he knows or not, he's changed my life. Phoebe Judge: Ed has been charged with assault
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and with repeatedly failing to comply with police.  He had his first court appearance in September.
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Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer and  me. Audio engineering help from Rob Byers and
00:13:47
Russ Henry. Julienne Alexander makes original  illustrations for each episode of Criminal.
00:14:11
Criminal is recorded in the studios  of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. Criminal is a proud member of Radiotopia from  PRX, a collective of the best shows around.
00:15:38
Jingle: Radiotopia, from PRX.

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

  • 90
    Most iconic
  • 90
    Most viral
  • 90
    Most iconic moment
  • 85
    Best overall

Episode Highlights

  • Edward Crawford's First Protest
    Edward Crawford describes his overwhelming experience at his first protest in Ferguson.
    “The emotion was at an all-time high. It was overwhelming.”
    @ 00m 48s
    November 09, 2022
  • The Tear Gas Incident
    Edward Crawford recounts the moment tear gas was fired at the crowd during the protest.
    “It sounds like a grenade is going off when it's shot.”
    @ 02m 39s
    November 09, 2022
  • Iconic Photo Goes Viral
    Robert Cohen's photograph of Edward Crawford becomes a viral symbol of the Ferguson protests.
    “I just sit back and think like, 'Wow, they really appreciate this picture.'”
    @ 09m 18s
    November 09, 2022
  • A Year Later: Reunion at the Protest
    Edward and Robert meet again at a protest one year after their first encounter.
    “I feel that it's true. Anytime I see him, he's always going to get a, 'Hey Robert.'”
    @ 12m 34s
    November 09, 2022

Episode Quotes

  • The emotion was at an all-time high. It was overwhelming.
    It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast
  • It's like both sides were antagonizing each other.
    It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast
  • It looked like something you see on a movie.
    It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast
  • It sounds like a grenade is going off when it's shot.
    It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast
  • I just sit back and think like, 'Wow, they really appreciate this picture.'.
    It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast
  • He did an amazing job. And every time I see him, I show gratitude.
    It Looked Like Fire | Criminal Podcast

Key Moments

  • Curiosity Sparks Protest00:12
  • Overwhelming Emotion00:48
  • Tension Escalates01:12
  • Tear Gas Fired02:39
  • Viral Icon09:18
  • Reunion at Protest12:34

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown