00:00:00
Sandie Alger: I couldn't be a
criminal now because I'm not that computer savvy. So I'm so glad. Sometimes I
say to people, "Thank God I stopped before
00:00:10
they got all this stuff going, because boy,
I don't know what I would have done."
00:00:15
[Music.]
Phoebe Judge: This is Sandie Alger, she's 71 years
old and has a very long rap sheet.
00:00:24
Sandie Alger: I remember the last time I ever got
arrested, I was sitting in the back of the police
00:00:30
car and he was asking me questions. And he had
that little computer sitting on his dashboard.
00:00:38
And I was like, "Oh my God," and my whole life was
just coming up on the screen. I mean you can't...
00:00:46
Before that you could lie and tell them all
kinds of stuff. I gave them so many different
00:00:51
names over the years and we'd get away with it.
You can't get away with anything now, I'm glad
00:00:55
I'm not a criminal. That'd be way too hard.
Phoebe Judge: She was in and out of prison for
00:01:00
most of the 1960s, '70s and '80s. And while Sandie
was locked up, the world changed around her.
00:01:07
She's like a bad guy from a nicer time.
Sandie Alger: Times really did change. People got more violent. I was never violent
at all. Never carried a gun or any of that
00:01:19
stuff like that. I always knew I could never rob
somebody at gunpoint, that they would take the gun
00:01:24
away from me and shoot me with it or something.
Phoebe Judge: Sandie was born in Los Angeles in
00:01:29
1943, the oldest of eight children. She had
a lot of responsibility around the house.
00:01:34
Not just because she was the oldest, but
because her mother was in bed a lot. Sandie Alger: She had, what they
called then, nervous breakdowns.
00:01:43
And she would have to be hospitalized every
so often. And so she took lots of medications
00:01:50
for all different things. She took Dexedrine,
which were — dexamyl and all the different
00:01:57
dexa- this and that — and they were amphetamines
to get up. And then she would take Miltown,
00:02:04
which was before benzo, that was before Valium.
And when Valium came along, she took Valium.
00:02:10
And she would take sleeping pills,
barbiturates. And she had so many pills, she had two medicine cabinets in her bathroom.
You know? [Laughs.] She had a lot of pills.
00:02:20
Phoebe Judge: But Sandie's mother
didn't keep those pills to herself. And that's where this whole story begins.
Sandie Alger: She was having a party.
00:02:28
And she was not a good housekeeper,
so our house was always a mess. And she wanted me to get the house all cleaned
up for her party. So she gave me a Dexedrine to
00:02:40
give me more energy to clean the house. And
it made me feel like a queen of the world.
00:02:47
And I loved it. [Laughs.]
Phoebe Judge: When the drugs come straight from your mother, when you're only 12 years old, you're
pretty lucky to make it to your 70th birthday.
00:02:57
So here's the story of a smart-mouthed little
girl in the 1950s, addicted to pills and
00:03:03
hell-bent on doing what she wanted.
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. [Music.]
Sandie Alger:
00:03:16
I could talk, I loved people, I was friendly, I
started losing weight so I wasn't chubby anymore,
00:03:24
because I mean, they were diet
pills. Anyway, I loved them. I mean, they were the answer to my dreams.
Phoebe Judge: Sandie wanted more. She stole
00:03:34
from her mother and asked around at school to see
what other people's mothers had in their medicine
00:03:39
cabinets. She says it wasn't hard. These were
pills that would come to be known as "mother's
00:03:44
little helpers." This went on for years. Then she
got six weeks into the 10th grade, dropped out,
00:03:51
and ran away from home to reinvent herself.
Sandie Alger: I went, and I got a job at this
00:03:57
little hamburger stand, and I
got a room in a rooming house where there was just, you paid by the week.
And there was me and some old men who lived
00:04:09
there and the bathroom was down the hall.
And those old men never bothered me. Amazing.
00:04:15
When I look back on it now, I think, "Oh my
God." But then my mother found me, though,
00:04:21
and tried to make me go home and I refused.
So they put me in juvenile hall for a few
00:04:26
months. And then I got out of there
and went home for a couple weeks and left again and never went back, after that.
Phoebe Judge: By the time she was 17,
00:04:37
Sandie was pregnant. She got married and
gave birth to her son, Billy. But she didn't have a lot of money. Other people did.
Sandie Alger: Okay, so... In the very beginning,
00:04:48
I just used to go, like, to grocery stores
and it was personal checks and I would
00:04:52
buy some groceries and get cash.
Phoebe Judge: Basically, Sandie stole someone's checkbook and had a fake ID made so
that she could look like the account holder.
00:05:02
Sandie Alger: It was before ATM cards, but
you could still do the same thing with checks.
00:05:06
So I would do that a lot.
Phoebe Judge: Were you terrified? Were you scared? What were you thinking?
Sandie Alger: I was high, so I was probably
00:05:17
bulletproof. And I know I was excited and thrilled
when I got the money, always. I was always
00:05:25
thrilled when I got the money.
[Music.] The thing about jail is it's really scary until
you go. And then it's not scary at all. Because,
00:05:41
I guess like jumping out of an airplane,
it's really scary till you do it. Phoebe Judge: She wasn't afraid of
anything. She didn't care if she got caught,
00:05:49
and she got caught an awful lot. In 1964, she was
arrested for the first time and sent to the Los
00:05:56
Angeles County Jail. That year, check forgery was
the most common crime committed by women. But at
00:06:02
20 years old, Sandie was the youngest one there.
Sandie Alger: So they just kind of took me
00:06:07
under their wing, these old ladies,
these old criminal ladies. [Laughs.] Like if I were in jail today and some young girl
00:06:17
came into jail that was like 20 years old, I would
make sure nothing bad happened to her. And I think
00:06:22
that that's how these old broads were with me.
Phoebe Judge: The first time, Sandie was in jail for 67 days.
Sandie Alger: So, first time I got out of jail,
00:06:33
I was still using pills. And then by the next
time, I was shooting heroin and amphetamines,
00:06:44
methamphetamine.
Phoebe Judge: So she moved on to heroin, and the other women in jail
had taught her new ways to rip people off.
00:06:50
Sandie Alger: Up the criminal ladder, just like
the corporate ladder. I mean, that's what you do.
00:06:56
I got caught, I went to jail, and that's where
you meet more sophisticated criminals and learn
00:07:02
and make connections to do more serious things.
Phoebe Judge: She was now walking into banks and
00:07:08
presenting her fake IDs and withdrawing
sums of money from other people's accounts — large sums of money, $10,000.
Sandie Alger: As far as I was concerned,
00:07:17
I had nothing to lose, ever. And I
wasn't hurting anyone but myself. Phoebe Judge: Sandie's son was being raised by her
sister. So she was on her own, shooting heroin and
00:07:28
stealing money straight from the bank.
Sandie Alger: And I felt that getting arrested and things like that were
just an occupational hazard.
00:07:35
Phoebe Judge: In 1968, Sandie was sent
to the California Institution for Women in the San Bernardino Valley. This would be her
on-again, off-again home for the next 20 years.
00:07:46
She was in and out of there like a revolving door.
The California Institution for Women was the only
00:07:52
women's prison in the entire state. This remained
the case until 1987. And so even though Sandie
00:07:58
wasn't a violent criminal, she was in there with
killers. She served time with some of the women
00:08:03
in Charles Manson's so-called family, including
Patricia Krenwinkel, who's still there today.
00:08:09
By the early '70s, Sandie's criminal
record included forgery of checks, forgery of prescriptions, possession
of heroin, burglary, and fraud.
00:08:18
But were you a criminal, where you were doing
these crimes because it was a way in which to
00:08:24
get the drugs, or — which is, might be a
reason, we hear that a lot. One becomes a
00:08:29
criminal because they're desperate and they
need the fix. But it sounds to me like you
00:08:36
loved the crime, a little bit.
Sandie Alger: I did. I loved both. And I think I
00:08:43
was addicted to the crime as well as the drugs.
Phoebe Judge: In 1976, Sandie was arrested
00:08:50
for possession of counterfeit
money, a federal offense. Sandie Alger: First I started out, I was buying
it, I was passing it. And then I started just
00:09:02
wholesaling it. And that was fun, that was a
lot of fun, and exciting. I mean, there were
00:09:09
times that I would have money strung across
my kitchen and I would dye it with gray rit
00:09:14
dye and coffee to age it and crinkle it
up and stuff that I would have it hanging
00:09:20
up there with a blow dryer, blowing it off.
Phoebe Judge: She was sent to a federal women's
00:09:25
prison in Alderson, West Virginia, where
she found herself living alongside more
00:09:29
women from the Manson family, including
Lynette Fromme, aka Squeaky Fromme, the woman who attempted to assassinate President
Ford in 1975. And Sandra Good, who carved an X in
00:09:41
her forehead and sent 170 letters to corporate
executives, threatening to kill them because
00:09:47
she believed they were polluting the earth.
Sandie Alger: Yeah. They were still 'nuns for
00:09:50
Charlie,' they called themselves, when I
was in prison with them in the late '70s.
00:09:57
They didn't have contact with him,
but they still loved Charlie Manson. Phoebe Judge: Sandie's stint in federal
prison had done nothing to slow her down.
00:10:06
When she was released, she landed herself right
back in the California Institution for Women for
00:10:11
possession of heroin. By the late '80s, she'd been
addicted to heroin for almost 30 years. That means
00:10:18
a lot of her heroin use went on in prison.
Sandie Alger: You have contact visits, so you
00:10:23
can get it that way. And the guards smuggle it in
for money and things. So yeah, it's pretty readily
00:10:30
available in prison. And then federal prison, it
was really readily available. All those smugglers,
00:10:36
I guess they like to keep their hand in, stay in
practice, whatever, I don't know. [Laughs.] But
00:10:41
yeah, it was very readily available. At one time
I was in a co-ed prison, that was really nice
00:10:47
[laughs] for a drug-addict girl.
Phoebe Judge: Why? Sandie Alger: Why was it really
nice? Well, there was about
00:10:56
200 women and 800 men, that's why. I mean, I
would just be whoever's girlfriend had the dope.
00:11:07
That's what girls do when
they're drug addicts. A lot. Phoebe Judge: All told, Sandie was
in and out of prison eight times.
00:11:16
Sandie Alger: I'd never been a grownup that
wasn't a criminal or a convict or a drug addict.
00:11:22
Phoebe Judge: Sandie was released from
prison for the very last time in 1988. Just a few days later, she checked herself into
a rehab program called Delancey Street. She
00:11:32
remembers the exact date: December 8th, 1988.
Sandie Alger: I knew it was the hardest
00:11:37
one in the whole country. I didn't know
anybody there who I'd gotten high with.
00:11:43
And I didn't know of anybody who
was actually there getting high, like we did a lot of programs. People that
were in the program, they were still getting
00:11:53
high all the time. I mean, like, what's the
point of going to a program and trying to
00:11:58
pretend like you're not high and being high? I
mean, that just ruins your high. So, I didn't
00:12:05
want to go to a drug program and get high.
Phoebe Judge: What was it like? You said it is the
00:12:11
hardest, it was the hardest, what is it like?
Sandie Alger: Well, it's way harder than prison,
00:12:15
I'll tell you that. Because you have to follow all
these little piddly-ass, petty rules, everything
00:12:23
is a rule. You can't talk to the men, you can't
wear any makeup, you have to dress conservatively,
00:12:28
you have to be polite all the time to people,
whether you feel it or not. All that stuff is
00:12:35
hard when that's not what you're used to.
Phoebe Judge: She stuck with it. Sandie
00:12:39
did her two years, and at the end of it, she
didn't trust herself to leave. So she stayed,
00:12:45
not for two more years, but for 12 more years.
Why did you stay there for so long?
00:12:50
Sandie Alger: Well, at first I
really didn't plan to stay two years, even though I said I would when I went there.
I just was going to stay as long as I could,
00:13:01
and my real goal was to stay long enough
to get off parole so I could be bailable
00:13:08
if I committed a crime. But by the time I
could have gone anywhere, I was changing
00:13:17
and I was starting to believe in it.
Phoebe Judge: All told, she was at Delancey
00:13:21
Street for 14 years. Sandie's been
clean since 1988. But that doesn't mean she doesn't think about it anymore.
Sandie Alger: There's nothing else in the whole
00:13:31
world like heroin, because heroin is... Nothing
matters. It's no big deal, no matter what. If
00:13:43
the house burns down, it's like, "Oh,
darn the house burned down." That's one thing about heroin that even though I
haven't used any for what, almost 30 years,
00:13:57
some days, on really bad days, I can remember that
feeling and it would just be nice to be blank.
00:14:04
Like if something horrible happens
in your life, you would just like to blank out for about four hours or something.
Phoebe Judge: So did you have a ritual? Did you
00:14:12
always shoot it in the same spot?
Did you know that your veins... Sandie Alger: No. You can't always shoot at the
same spot, because you burn out your veins. I
00:14:21
have a terrible time right now when I go and have
to have a blood test. They hate me at the clinics,
00:14:27
and I have to explain to them and apologize to
them, "I'm so sorry, but I was an IV drug user.
00:14:33
And so you're going to have to go in this little
tiny vein right here on my hand or something."
00:14:39
So yeah, everything comes back to haunt you.
Phoebe Judge: Do you ever say to them,
00:14:44
when they can't find a vein, "Let me take care
of it?" Sandie Alger: I don't, but I'm tempted
00:14:48
a lot of times, you know? "Just give me that."
Phoebe Judge: At 71 years old, Sandie's living in
00:14:55
Durham, North Carolina, and working with a program
called TROSA. That stands for Triangle Residential
00:15:01
Options for Substance Abusers. It was founded by
a former addict Sandie met at Delancey Street.
00:15:07
He invited her to come help him
start a program for women addicts. Sandie Alger: There's nothing
that a woman here can say to me
00:15:14
that shocks me or makes me judge her or
upsets me, because I've done all the bad
00:15:21
things already. The most important thing for
my women is that they feel safe at all times.
00:15:28
Many of them have never felt safe before they
came here ever, ever, as children or as adults.
00:15:36
And so they have to feel safe.
Phoebe Judge: There are 540 residents at TROSA, only about 80 of them are women. So Sandie wants
them to feel physically safe and taken care of.
00:15:47
But she isn't some pushover. She knows she's from
a different time, a time when it was easy to give
00:15:52
a cop a fake name or walk into a grocery store,
smile, and hand over another person's check.
00:15:58
Being a crook, at least one who deals with money,
has become much more complicated. But being a
00:16:03
drug addict, that hasn't changed so much
Sandie Alger: As convincing as addicts are,
00:16:09
once when you've been, when you can see
through it all, because you've done it,
00:16:13
you've told all those lies already.
Phoebe Judge: Does someone ever try to pull something on you, say, "Well, listen."
Sandie Alger: Look, they try to pull things
00:16:21
on me all the time, because you know, I'm 71, I
look like just some cute little old grandma. So
00:16:30
they cannot imagine, especially when they're new
here, the life that I've had. So sometimes I do
00:16:36
have to tell them, "Honey, I was running
that game so long before you were born,
00:16:42
before your parents were born." [Laughs.]. [Music.]
Phoebe Judge: Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer
and me. Eric Mennel helped with sound.
00:17:03
Julienne Alexander does our episode
art. You can see it thisiscriminal.com. We're on Facebook and Twitter, @CriminalShow.
We're doing a live show at the Bell House in
00:17:13
Brooklyn on July 15th. If you're
around, we'd love to see you. Criminal is a proud member of Radiotopia from
PRX. Check out the other shows at radiotopia.fm.
00:17:25
One of those is The Allusionist, which is
a wonderful show about language and how
00:17:29
language is used. You should check it out.
Radiotopia is trying to understand how you
00:17:34
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00:17:51
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
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