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this episode contains descriptions of sexual violence and may not be suitable for everyone please use discretion
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Carrie Elliott was 69 years old she was living by herself her husband had died the year before someone knocked on the
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door she had the door chained actually opened it just a little bit and then they kicked the door and and pushed her
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onto the couch and um and raped her and then dragged her to the bedroom and raped her again
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at 9 22 PM a police officer patrolling the neighborhood noticed her broken door and by 9 51 PM Carrie Elliott was at the
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hospital this was in the small North Carolina town of Hickory she described her attacker to the police an
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African-American man around 35 years old six feet tall 200 pounds or more with facial hair and wearing a green shirt
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that he removed during the attack the police put together a sheet containing six photographs of potential
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suspects Carrie Elliott was white all six men on the sheet were African-American
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she identified the man in position two in 1987 October the 20 fourth on a Saturday
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that said the morning I got up with taking a shave and I was living with Brenda Smith at the time
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this is Willie Grimes Brenda Smith was his girlfriend they left the house and spent the day running errands Willie
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didn't drive so in the early evening Brenda dropped him off at their friend Rachel Wilson's house it was a place
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where people often went to have dinner and play cards Brenda didn't stay she had to work the
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third shift at a nursing home that night so I stayed there and talk played a little car and broke
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I guess we sat down until 11th letter 20 minutes to free up that night drinking and just talking and playing
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cards and doing the next morning after Brenda Smith finished her overnight shift she picked
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Willie up from Rachel Wilson's house they spent the rest of the weekend quietly and on Monday morning Willie
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went to work Carrie Elliott had a conversation with one of her neighbors Linda McDowell
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about the attack Linda McDowell thought she might know a man who matched that description they
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talked about what he looked like but Linda didn't tell Carrie a name she said she would only tell it to the police
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after that conversation Carrie Elliott called the police with some more details about her attacker she said he had a
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mole near his mouth shortly after Linda McDowell also called the police she said she had some information but
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first wanted to know if there's any reward money available the officer confirmed that there was a
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thousand dollar reward and 20 minutes later Linda McDowell showed up at the police station
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she told officers that she'd seen a man wearing a green shirt in the neighborhood on the night of the rape a
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man with a mole on his face and that his name was Willie Grimes the police revised their sheet of six
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photographs of potential suspects they replaced the photograph of the man in position two the man Carrie had
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originally identified with a photograph of Willy Grimes and when I got home that toothless
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Brenda Smith told me that the police just had been there looking for a minute so they had a bunch of wants for me and
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I see it for what I know I ain't did nothing she said I don't know what they were for
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and so I asked her well she kept me to the police station to find out what they were for
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I was going to the police station or in your mind were you thinking I've got to go clear this up
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well that's what I was growing up there to find out what it was and let them know that I hadn't did
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anything because I knew I hadn't did anything so that's one reason I wasn't afraid to
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go up there this was on Tuesday more than two days since the attack and on that day Willie
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Grimes happened to be wearing a green shirt he waited for the police officer who had
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been looking for him Officer Steve hunt to arrive when he got there he came in and I asked him what was he looking for
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me for and he said he was in big trouble you know did a lot of bad things like that and I said what
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I know I ain't did nothing I know I ain't did nothing I take a lot of tests to test or do
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whatever you want me to do because I know I ain't did nothing they say I'm telling you one more time
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you're in big trouble be quiet because everything you said can be used against you and this and that
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so I ain't said nothing else and he told them to fingerprint me and book me that what they did
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he was charged with two counts of rape and kidnapping at the initial hearing Carrie Elliott was in the courtroom and
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she had to be that uh identified me or this and that what do you remember do you remember when she identified you
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wanting to I feel like I would want to scream out it no that's not me you've got the wrong
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guy no not at the time because uh the way she identified me you know I thought in a way we're going to go
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pretty pretty smooth because uh they asked her did she see the man that attacked her in the
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courthouse and she said I don't really know that looked like him over there so then you know
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I still feel like you know everything was going to go pretty smooth because if she knew it was me or this man she
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wouldn't have said that looked like him she would have said that is him sitting right there
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Willie Grimes was kept in custody until his trial a month passed in jail and then another and another
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he was certain that in the meantime the police would find the man who did rape Carrie Elliott and he would go home
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he was sure of it I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal [Music] in July of 1988 his trial began at the
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Catawba County District Court eight people testified that they'd been with Willie during the night four people
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testified to Willie's non-violent character but the prosecution had one piece of
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evidence that seemed foolproof a hair that had been found at the scene of the crime Willie Grimes was actually the one
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who asked for the hair to be examined he thought it would prove he'd never been in Carrie Elliott's apartment
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an agent from North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation examined the hair microscopically and testified that
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it could be a match for a piece of Willie Grimes hair when further questioned he said that it
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was a match for Willie Grimes or that if it wasn't Willie Grimes it had to be someone of the same race whose hair had
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the same microscopic characteristics microscopic hair examination has since been replaced by DNA testing which is a
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lot more accurate some experts have since called hair comparison junk science the jury deliberated for less than two
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hours eleven of The Twelve jurors were white when the verdict was really I think it was
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so looking for them to say not get the book when it is reading they said get the
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it just hit me and it just felt like I got real hot like I wanted to faint or something though
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and that's when he said that uh I'm not going to sentence him today I'm going to wait until Monday we'll come
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back on Monday to get him the citizen on Monday he was sentenced to life in prison for two charges of first degree
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rape and one charge of kidnapping well at first when I got my time I got so I couldn't sleep or anything
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staking and worrying about the situation that I was in and knowing that I wasn't going to get
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no help after the verdict was read Willie's lawyer immediately asked the judge for
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access to evidence gathered at the scene that wasn't used in the trial fingerprints were found in Kerry
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Elliott's apartment investigators had taken them off fruit from a bowl in her kitchen and they've been tested against
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Willie grime's fingerprints they were not a match but somehow this wasn't a red flag
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investigators speculated that if the prints weren't Willy Grimes then they must belong to the victim but they never
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even checked Willie's lawyer wanted to run the fingerprints through an FBI database he
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also wanted someone to test them against Carrie Elliot's the prosecutor said he was quote kicking a dead horse the judge
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said he would think it over but then nothing happened Willie's defense attorney didn't follow
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up the judge retired and Willie just sat in prison [Music] for the hardest time of day is
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[Music] at night when you get ready to go to bed when they call bedtime and everybody have to get
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in bed and then you'd have doing all that night no one to talk to her no one listen to or this and that because you
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wouldn't like to talk or nothing you go to bed Willie worked in the prison kitchen then
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moved to the bakery and finally to the laundry he was transferred from one prison to the next constantly bouncing
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from one side of the state to the other moving with no warning and no information about where he was headed
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what's Thanksgiving and Christmas like in prison where it was real hard because you
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didn't never see your peoples or whatever but it wasn't as hard if you were working in the kitchen because you have
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to cook for those days and sometimes will make you feel pretty good try to make something real good for
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those days to help the other inmates realized that they had something to look for or enjoy
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themselves or something like that but but Leah it was real hard on you yourself Willie was in prison when his mother
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died and many of his siblings he spent years dealing with debilitating insomnia and depression and then he got prostate
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cancer he never stopped writing letters to anyone he could think of asking them to
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look at his case and I went to reaching out to a lot of different lawyers a lot of different
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show that was on TV and this and that and riding clemences and things never cook and no kind of help
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So eventually I felt like I wasn't going to never get out of there and never get
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nowhere you know he was given the opportunity to go home he would just admit to sexually
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assaulting this woman and he would not do it he would not go through the program in prison that it would have
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allowed him to be paroled and and he actually said I'd rather stay in prison attorney Chris Mumma first heard about
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Willie Grimes in 2003. she's the executive director of a non-profit called the North Carolina Center on
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actual innocence and um you could just tell from Willie's writing that there was something there
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but then looking at the case looking at the transcript and seeing all the red flags that we see in wrongful
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convictions microscopic hair comparison a very very shaky witness or victim identification
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um it's very strong Alibi evidence so a lot of red flags in the case and so we set
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to work trying to find evidence to prove his innocence because a lot of times it
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takes that physical evidence particularly in a rape case so trying to find the the rape kit or the sheets or
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clothing or fingerprints so we we asked for anything that they had that we might
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be able to use to prove his innocence those requests went to law enforcement they went to the district attorney's
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office and always came back with the same response that there was nothing left that everything had been destroyed
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thank you without the rape kit and the fingerprints it was going to be hard to prove that Willy's case deserved a
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review by now Willie had been in prison for more than 15 years but then a newly formed organization
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called the North Carolina innocence inquiry commission agreed to take a look and you know hate to say it but somebody
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finally got up out of their chair and actually did what they would call a thorough search and that's how they
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found the fingerprints so that the commission didn't even have to go in and do a search the fingerprints were found
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just by somebody in the office looking and what did the fingerprints show the fingerprints were run through the
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the automated indexing system that can be used now keeps track of everyone's fingerprints and those fingerprints
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matched Albert Turner and Albert Turner actually had been an original suspect in
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the case and lived or was staying in that neighborhood um had quite the reputation and uh
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you know he he didn't confess to the rape but he his story changed and developed and trying
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to come up with the reason why his fingerprints would have been on they were the fingerprints were actually
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collected from fruit and the victim's home so why his fingerprints would have been on that fruit
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why was Willie Grimes ever even a suspect where the Grimes became a suspect because of that informant his name would
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never have been brought up otherwise when Chris Mumma refers to the informant she means Linda McDowell the woman who
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was paid a thousand dollars for supplying the name Willie Grimes to police and it's interesting Albert Turner's
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picture was actually in the first lineup That Carrie Elia was shown because he was a suspect and but Carrie Elliott had
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described this person as having an afro in the picture they used in the lineup of Albert Turner had his hair was
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plaited so it was in cornrows and very flat so um she just she didn't pick him if you
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if you put the pictures of Albert Turner and Willie Grimes side by side it is quite striking for someone who's not who
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wears a cross race identification what have you learned about the problems with cross race identification so cross race
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identification is it's not a racial issue it's just a comfort issue we are more comfortable identifying people we
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are familiar with that are in our communities that we spend a lot of time with so we we can recognize the
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difference in features for people we're comfortable with so whether it's black identifying white or white identifying
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Asian or Asian identifying black when you don't spend as much time with with someone from another race it it the
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features blend a little more and it becomes more difficult for identification by 2012 it was clear that microscopic
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hair comparison was unreliable that fingerprints from the scene had not matched Willie but did match Albert
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Turner and that the whole photo ID process had been problematic from the start the innocent inquiry commission sent the
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case to a panel of judges for review had been 24 years since Willie first went into the Hickory police station and
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offered to take a lie detector test it didn't even take the panel of Judges 30 minutes to make their decision well I
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was to laugh when hear about it because I was out working I was working on work release
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who they're eating and when I got in they were telling me you a free man you're a free man to impose you innocent
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you're down about you innocent I didn't know nothing about what they were talking about and this and that but
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when I seen it on TV T is what they're really not my eyes and this and that and I went I wanted to be by myself to
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because I want nobody to see me crying that's doing this or doing that but I wouldn't cry for being sad it was
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just being crying for being so happiness and that because all that time I was telling them
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that I was innocent the D.A didn't even offer any closing arguments he just apologized
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Willie Grimes was 67 years old you know uh you don't seem mad why because we Graden and
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keeping stuff ball up inside of you don't do nothing but make you a person that you not
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it'll make you get Bella and do things that you she wouldn't normally do and whole and Grudge and whole and Hate
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it's a doing number making you being a worse person than you eat us we see that actually a lot meaning
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Willie's case he's just a forgiving gentle soul but the longer someone is in prison uh actually the less bitter they
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are when they get out because they have to let go of the anger in order to survive and so
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um you know there were plenty of years that Willie was in prison that he was angry and bitter and depressed
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but by the time he unfortunately it takes that long and by the time you get out you're just you just want to be free
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and not have all that anger bear down on you foreign [Laughter] Lawndale North Carolina about 10 miles
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from where he grew up but he doesn't really know many people there anymore oh when I came up here I went uh
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searching for houses and uh I went through riding around and I saw this house I was living in Gastonia at
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the time and what I liked it about the house because it had a tin roof and it reminded me of when I
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was growing up we were growing up in the old house with 10 Tops on it and it was out and by itself wasn't too
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close to houses and I don't like to be too close to in the houses he answered the door wearing an orange
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dress shirt he's tall with graying hair he's 71 now we sat at his kitchen table he speaks so softly and gently that I
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kept trying to pull my chair closer which didn't seem to bother him or if it did he was too polite to say anything
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I've been laying back and everything free not the way I wanted and this and that before I
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who had taken free of staff about four months ago I went and got passport and this and that just in case
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if I get ready to take more than that where would you go where would you love to go we had a first place I'm going to
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poke poke to Rico I had a good friend that was literally in there in prison he clearly every day I can
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but I just wanted to go and see we're in prison didn't you yeah I lost mostly everyone except
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one of my sisters I just had one simply living there I lost one two three Four Brothers
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and I took the flowers in prison are you in close contact with your sister now yeah I see her mostly every
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day I was over there earlier this morning yesterday but we try to we toss to one another
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every day on the phone I go down there every other day regardless how many days how long exactly were you
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in prison well I was in prison uh 24 years nine months in 23 days The View out the back window of his
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house is of a Big Field leading down to dense Woods at this time of year the hay
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has been cut and has rolled into big Bales which Mark the countryside right before we left he walked us
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outside so we could see the view of the mountains from the front lawn oh you can see them
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oh yeah you can get out there in the yard them crease all the blocking it not cause
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that all the leaves but most time leaves ain't down you can just stay and look at all
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well it's a beautiful place I'd probably take care of it [Music] Carrie Elliott died in 1989.
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Albert Turner died in 2016 before he could be prosecuted for her rape over the course of his life he'd been
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charged with assault 23 times [Music] [Music] criminal is produced by Lauren Spore
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Nadia Wilson and me audio mix by Rob Byers matild erfilino is our intern Julian Alexander makes original
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illustrations for each episode of Criminal and there's a great book about Willie Grimes and this whole thing
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called ghost of the innocent man by Benjamin racklin you can find out more on our website this is criminal.com
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criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina public radio wunc we're a proud member of radiotopia
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from PRX a collection of the best podcasts around and special thanks to adserc for providing their ad serving
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platform to radiotopia I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal [Music] thank you [Music]
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from PRX