00:00:00
Nelson Johnson: The first time
that I encountered the Klan, we were at a restaurant in
Greensboro called the Apa Cellar,
00:00:08
and the Klan actually formed a line outside
on both sides of the street in their uniform.
00:00:17
And in that place, we were not only interracial,
we were men and women. There were white women
00:00:26
there, Black women, Black men, white women. We
were sitting at a table, and people came and took
00:00:33
the soda I was drinking and poured it in my lap.
Phoebe Judge: This was in the mid 1960s. Nelson
00:00:41
Johnson had just returned from four years
in the Air Force and was enrolled at North
00:00:45
Carolina A&T State University.
Nelson Johnson: So that was my first encounter with the Klan within
the context of seeking to have a meal,
00:00:57
but conscious that we were integrating a
place where that was not permissible. [Meditative, plunking music.]
Phoebe Judge: As a student, he formed the
00:01:06
Greensboro Association of Poor People and quickly
became a respected civil rights leader. In the
00:01:12
late '70s, he worked to build up unions in
North Carolina's textile factories and was
00:01:17
joined by activists from all over the country.
Their strategy was to get hired by a factory
00:01:22
and then organize its workers from the inside.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: That was a trend in the
00:01:28
protest culture, to leave the nice, lucrative
career that you had or were going to have and
00:01:38
go to work in doing some kind of manual blue
collar work, be organizing people, work in the
00:01:45
community, or in the factories, or both.
Phoebe Judge: Signe Waller-Foxworth and her
00:01:51
husband, Jim Waller, were two of the
activists working alongside Nelson Johnson. Jim Waller had been an infectious
disease doctor and Signe taught philosophy,
00:02:01
but they left those jobs behind.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: We were after a real democracy. We also thought that capitalism was
really evil and we would have to get to an order
00:02:13
of society where people contributed what they're
able to, and they received what they needed.
00:02:19
You know, this slogan, "From each according to
his ability, to each according to his needs."
00:02:25
That money would not be the deciding factor in
whether people had a good life and could have
00:02:30
an education and healthcare and all of that.
Phoebe Judge: All three were affiliated with a
00:02:34
national labor group called the Workers
Viewpoint Organization. They'd later changed the name to the Communist Workers'
Party, or CWP. And in the summer of 1979,
00:02:45
the CWP set its sights on the KKK.
Nelson Johnson: The Klan had passed out leaflets saying that all of this stuff
about building a union was just a way
00:02:56
for Black people to get in charge of white
people, all of which was building up white
00:03:02
resentment against the organizing that we were
doing. So we saw an article in the newspaper
00:03:10
about the showing of a movie, Birth of a Nation.
Phoebe Judge: The Birth of a Nation is a silent
00:03:15
film from 1915 that portrays, in the most
grandiose way, the heroic rise of the KKK.
00:03:23
Signe Waller and Nelson Johnson decided
to drive to the tiny town of China Grove,
00:03:27
where it was screening, and protest.
Nelson Johnson: It was a library, it's just a small building, and the Klan had
00:03:38
rifles on a tripod, and they had the Confederate
flag, and we chanted and walked up on them and
00:03:48
burned the Confederate flag.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: Some of us had some weapons, some of us picked up rocks
or whatever to use if we needed a weapon
00:03:59
to defend ourselves. And mainly, it was a lot
of shouting, but it was so tense, it was — the
00:04:06
tension in the air was really palpable.
Phoebe Judge: By some accounts, there were more than a hundred protesters
crowding around the small building and
00:04:15
shouting. The Klansmen ushered women and
children inside, barricaded the doors,
00:04:20
and then stood on the porch, pointing their
guns at the crowd. The few policemen there
00:04:25
pleaded with the Klansmen to stand down
before something happened. Eventually they
00:04:30
did. And the confrontation was over.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: The fact that that did not erupt in violence was something people
found amazing. We celebrated it as a victory,
00:04:43
which was foolhardy of us.
Phoebe Judge: Later that night, one of the Klansmen told a news camera,
"There will be revenge for this."
00:04:51
[Melancholy piano music.]
In the months that followed the CWP talked up, the China Grove
standoff, claiming they'd chased off the "scum
00:05:03
Klansmen." They worked on new and bigger ways
to protest the Klan, and they wanted something
00:05:09
in a city, more people, more visibility. So
they planned a demonstration in Greensboro,
00:05:15
a march through the city's housing projects.
Nelson Johnson: We wanted to have a conference
00:05:21
between white workers and Black workers
and community members to discuss the Klan
00:05:31
and racism and how that should be dealt with.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: We invited all the workers,
00:05:36
some of the mills who were working,
and we were going to talk about, what does the Klan do? What are we trying to
do? We're trying to build a strong union and
00:05:45
give them updates on the union activity that
existed and get them clear about what the
00:05:51
Klan's role is. White and Black. Make a unity,
Black and white. We always stressed that
00:05:57
Phoebe Judge: They set a date: November 3rd,
1979. And they printed up posters to advertise.
00:06:05
Right at the top, in all capital letters, the
words, "Death to the Klan." And underneath that,
00:06:11
"Anti-Klan march and conference." They put
them all over the city of Greensboro.
00:06:17
In the days that followed, someone else drove
around and pasted a different poster right on top.
00:06:23
It was the image of a man hanging by a noose
and a warning, "To the traitors, communists,
00:06:29
race mixers, and black rioters. Even now, the
crosshairs are on the back of your necks."
00:06:37
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. [Tense, melancholy music.]
Nelson Johnson: I thought about it and made the suggestion that,
"Let's march to the site where we're going to have
00:06:55
the conference." And the starting point was
Morningside Homes, where a lot of people who
00:07:01
live there worked in the textile mill, and we
were going to be singing songs and passing out
00:07:07
flyers and inviting the community to join the
march. So if you start with about 150 people,
00:07:13
you end with about 500 at the conference site.
Phoebe Judge: The night before the march,
00:07:19
on November 2nd, the group met at Jim and Signe
Waller's house for a planning meeting.
00:07:24
Nelson Johnson: And part of the decision
we had to make was whether we would have
00:07:31
any kind of capacity to defend ourselves.
Phoebe Judge: Nelson Johnson had applied for a
00:07:37
parade permit. He'd gone down to the sheriff's
office and submitted the entire march route to
00:07:42
the police. He was granted the permit on two
conditions. First, they could carry signs,
00:07:48
but the signposts couldn't be bigger than
two feet tall. And second, no weapons.
00:07:53
Nelson Johnson: Well, there was a man from South
Carolina. He was the elder among us. By standards
00:08:02
of my age now, he was pretty young. He was in
his 40s. And he said that he had seen a person
00:08:10
drug through the streets in South Carolina,
and that he thought that we should prepare
00:08:18
to defend ourselves if we were going to march.
His name was Big Man. That's what we called him.
00:08:23
And I heard him and I took exception to it
because I said, "I don't know of any history
00:08:30
where you have the police there, it's in the
middle of the day, it's in a Black community,
00:08:36
where Klan just ride in at high noon and overwhelm
the police and the community." I said, "That isn't
00:08:45
how they roll. They come in on defenseless
people at night, dragging people out of the
00:08:51
house. That's the history that I know."
Phoebe Judge: By the end of the meeting,
00:08:55
they decided that they would bring a few
weapons and keep them close by in a truck.
00:09:00
The CWP had advertised the rally in pretty violent
terms. One of their posters said that the KKK
00:09:08
"should be physically beaten and chased out of
town. This is the only language they understand."
00:09:13
Another said, "What made a difference in China
Grove was the mighty force of the militant armed
00:09:20
and organized fighters."
Nelson Johnson: I remember it was a very foggy morning
and I was concerned about the weather.
00:09:29
Phoebe Judge: On the day of the rally, November
3rd, Nelson Johnson went over to Signe and
00:09:34
Jim Waller's house for breakfast.
Nelson Johnson: But after a while, the fog burned off and it turned out to be a
beautiful fall day, very crisp, very clear.
00:09:45
And we talked a little bit about the
plans, and the truck and the drummers and the singers were all in place. We
were going to have children marching
00:10:00
at the front of the march. It was going to be
festive, the march was going to be festive.
00:10:05
Phoebe Judge: Can I break in for one —
I just want to break in for one second. You felt like it was okay to have children there,
even though there was some risk of a scuffle? You
00:10:16
thought that the risk was low enough that you
would be able to protect the children, or XYZ?
00:10:23
Nelson Johnson: I thought the scuffle was going
to be with the police. And I had two daughters,
00:10:27
they were both there. I never would have brought
my children there under some circumstances
00:10:33
that I thought were threatening.
[Piano music building tension.] Signe Waller-Foxworth: We left the house
early that morning, and I had my assignment,
00:10:42
was to sell Workers Viewpoint newspapers and hand
out leaflets. And I was doing that and singing.
00:10:49
We were singing freedom songs there. And I had
a big smile because I was looking forward to
00:10:55
the day. It was going to be a good day. I was
looking forward to the farm downtown and then
00:10:59
going out to dinner with my husband that night it
was going to be a good day. [Audio from the march
00:11:04
of people singing and clapping.]
Phoebe Judge: There were four camera crews already on
the scene, but no police. At 11:23 a.m.,
00:11:12
a caravan of nine vehicles drove in.
Nelson Johnson: There was a car coming down the street with a Confederate flag
on it. And there was a pickup truck.
00:11:24
And the pickup truck was in the front
of the march. And there was a young man, and there was a chant going on about ... he
yelled out of the window of the front truck,
00:11:43
something to the effect that, "You
asked for us, you got us." And he used a derogatory word for Jewish people
and cursed. And I knew at that point that
00:11:57
these were not people coming to march with us.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: There were shouts going
00:12:01
back and forth. The Klan was screaming racial
epithets. And there were slogans and screams
00:12:15
going back and forth. So that's what it was.
Archival Audio: Death to the Klan! Death to the
00:12:18
Klan! Death to the Klan! Death to the Klan!
Death to the Klan! Death to the Klan! Death
00:12:23
to the Klan!
Phoebe Judge: We're hearing the audio from that day.
Signe Waller-Foxworth:
00:12:30
One of the demonstrators had a picket stick and
hit one of the Klan cars as it was going by.
00:12:38
Nelson Johnson: Somebody in our group hit
one of the Klan cars. It was the back fender,
00:12:47
had one of the posters and hit it with
a poster. And it was just then that the person in the lead vehicle put his body
out of the window — he was almost sitting
00:13:03
on the window seal of the truck — and fired a
shot in the air at about a 45 degree angle.
00:13:12
[Audio from the march of frenetic activity.]
Phoebe Judge: In the video, you can see people,
including Signe's husband,
00:13:21
Jim Waller, run to a truck to get guns.
Nelson Johnson: A man was rushing toward
00:13:25
me with what looks like a butcher knife, a long
knife. And actually he was trying to stab me in
00:13:34
my abdomen. He dropped low and somebody threw
me a stick, which was where one of the posters
00:13:43
was going to be attached to it. I grabbed it
and the shooting started, but I was somewhat
00:13:52
not tuned into the shooting. And the knife went
through my arm. And we squared off again. And
00:14:06
just, almost on cue, they all got in their
vehicles. At this time, I hear more shots.
00:14:13
[Audio from the march of gunshots.]
Signe Waller-Foxworth: When I heard the shots, my son was with me,
not my daughter. I have a son and a daughter.
00:14:23
My son was 11 years old. And the only thing I
thought about was, I heard the gunshots and I
00:14:30
saw him and he started running to try to find some
safety with all the kids. People were running back
00:14:40
away from the front, where the gunshots were
coming from. And instinctively, I just ran
00:14:46
after him because I wanted to be in back of him
to protect him, trying to get him to safety.
00:14:55
Phoebe Judge: She later learned that her husband
Jim had been able to get a rifle from the truck,
00:14:59
but it was almost immediately taken
away by a Klansman. And so Jim Waller started running away, and was shot in
the back. The shot was so powerful,
00:15:09
it propelled his body forward through the air.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: This may sound like it
00:15:15
couldn't possibly be true, but I did not even
then think about people being killed. I had
00:15:21
never been in a war. I had never been in a
battle with guns. And if I had any image in
00:15:29
my mind at all, it was that people had
shot their guns over people's heads. And I was just going to go back and see Jim.
[Mournful orchestral music.]
00:15:43
At the moment that I arrived, Jim
had just breathed his last breath like a few seconds before. And Nelson
Johnson was with him. And Nelson said to me,
00:15:59
"He's gone."
Phoebe Judge: The whole thing lasted 88 seconds.
Thirty-nine shots were fired, almost all
00:16:16
of them from KKK guns. Five demonstrators
were killed and nine were wounded. When
00:16:22
it was all over, the police arrived.
Nelson Johnson: The police were supposed to be there. They were not. They said they
couldn't find the site. And it was the very
00:16:33
site they wrote the permit for.
Phoebe Judge: Nelson Johnson began screaming. He says he called the mayor a dog and
accused the police of working with the KKK.
00:16:41
Nelson Johnson: Police came over
and said, "Stop." And I said, "I'm not going to stop. I know what y'all did."
Phoebe Judge: He was arrested for inciting a riot.
00:16:51
The police took him to the hospital to have
his arms sewn up and then took him to jail.
00:16:56
When he was released from jail the next
morning, he was swarmed by reporters. The
00:17:01
incident was a national news story.
Nelson Johnson: I was confronted, as I was walking out of jail, by what looked like
about 15 news reporters and cameras in my face.
00:17:15
I was most concerned about where my two children
were. I had no idea where they were. And I learned
00:17:26
shortly that my brother, from Winston-Salem,
had come over and taken them with him back
00:17:32
to Winston-Salem, and I'm eternally grateful
for that. But it was — I was still coming to
00:17:39
grips with the magnitude of what had happened.
Phoebe Judge: Most of the white supremacists fled
00:17:44
the crime scene without being caught. But one
van did get stopped by police, and the driver
00:17:50
of the van started talking, naming names. One
man said he'd fired in self-defense. Another
00:17:57
said he was protecting the American way.
[Mournful orchestral music continues.]
00:18:07
The shooting started out as national news
and Jimmy Carter assigned 20 FBI agents to
00:18:12
investigate. But then, just a few hours later —
Announcer: From ABC in New York, this is World
00:18:18
News Tonight, Sunday... Phoebe Judge: The event
was overshadowed by the Iran hostage crisis.
00:18:22
Sam Donaldson: Good evening. The U.S. embassy in
Tehran has been invaded and occupied by Iranian
00:18:28
students. The Americans inside have been taken
prisoner and, according to a student spokesman,
00:18:32
will be held as hostages until the deposed shah
is returned from the United States, where he is
00:18:38
receiving medical treatment... [Fades out.]
Phoebe Judge: In 1980, North Carolina brought murder charges against
six members of the KKK and American Nazi Party.
00:18:52
More than 2,000 people were called to
jury selection and asked questions like, "Can you judge a Klan member objectively?" And,
"Is it less of a crime to kill a communist?"
00:19:02
After five weeks, 12 jurors and four
alternates were finally chosen. All were white.
00:19:08
The defense argued that the Klansmen had acted in
self-defense. The verdict came back: not guilty.
00:19:15
A second federal criminal civil rights trial
happened in 1984. Again, the jury was all white.
00:19:23
This time, a carpenter named Eddie Dawson
testified that he'd acted as a liaison
00:19:27
between the KKK and the Greensboro Police.
He said under oath that he'd warned police
00:19:33
that as many as 200 KKK and American Nazi Party
members were planning to show up at the CWP rally,
00:19:40
and that he'd been paid by the police for this
information. He was riding in the first car of the
00:19:46
KKK caravan and testified that he'd expected the
police to be there when they arrived, and couldn't
00:19:52
understand why they weren't. Again, the verdict
came back: not guilty. One of the Klan leaders,
00:20:00
Imperial Wizard Virgil Lee Griffin, gloated to
reporters, "No matter what the communists say,
00:20:06
the KKK is here to stay."
Eric Ginsburg: My name's Eric Ginsburg. I'm
the associate editor of Triad
00:20:21
City Beat newspaper here in Greensboro.
Phoebe Judge: And where are we right now?
00:20:25
Eric Ginsburg: We're at the entrance
to Maplewood Cemetery, which is where the headstone for the five people who were
killed in the Greensboro massacre is. Only
00:20:36
four of them are actually buried here. There
are two on either side of the headstone.
00:20:42
Phoebe Judge: Will you just read what it says here?
Eric Ginsburg: So the title
00:20:45
to the back of the headstone is, "Long live
the Communist Workers' Party 5. November 3,
00:20:50
1979, the criminal monopoly capitalist class with
government agents, Klan, and Nazis, murdered Jim
00:20:57
Waller, César Cauce, Mike Nathan, Bill Sampson,
and Sandi Smith. Heroically defending the people,
00:21:04
the 5 charged gunfire with bare fists and sticks.
We vow this assassination will be the costliest
00:21:11
mistake the capitalists ever made and the turning
point of class struggle in the U.S." And then in
00:21:17
large letters across the bottom, it says, "Fight
for revolutionary socialism and workers rule."
00:21:21
Phoebe Judge: That's big.
Eric Ginsburg: Yeah. I mean, there's so many things that stand out to me about this.
The line about "we will make this the costliest
00:21:32
mistake that the capitalists ever made."
Phoebe Judge: And, also, in some way, the accusation: government agents.
Eric Ginsburg: Yeah, absolutely. Right
00:21:42
from the very beginning, this headstone says that
the government and Klan and Nazis were working
00:21:49
together, which is something people started
saying, I think, even on the scene that day.
00:21:57
Phoebe Judge: Do you believe that?
Eric Ginsburg: I do find it very difficult to understand why, if the tensions between
these groups had been building for a long
00:22:11
period of time, how the absence of police
presence could be anything but intentional.
00:22:18
The popular narrative around here among many folks
is that these are two outside warring groups that
00:22:24
locals played no role in this incident. And
I certainly don't accept that. And I'm much
00:22:30
more inclined to agree with the statements made
in the Truth and Reconciliation Report itself,
00:22:37
where it talks about the culpability
of local police and officials. Phoebe Judge: In 2005, a group of private citizens
created the Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation
00:22:47
Commission, modeled off the one that had taken
place in South Africa after the end of apartheid.
00:22:53
Basically, everyone told the story as best they
remembered it and try to explain their actions.
00:23:00
Here's the voice of Klansman
Virgil Lee Griffin. Virgil Lee Griffin: The reason I came
to Greensboro, they put the poster out:
00:23:07
"Death to the Klan." Said we was hiding under
rocks. We was scum. I'm not scum. I'm not as good
00:23:13
as any man walking on this earth.
Phoebe Judge: After holding hearings for two
years, the commission issued a
00:23:21
500-page report articulating their findings.
Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation Commissioner:
00:23:24
The primary contributor to the loss of life
was the absence of police, which endangered the
00:23:32
welfare of all involved, including residents of
Morningside Homes, where the shootings took place.
00:23:40
Nearly all commissioners believe that
the police absence was the result of some
00:23:46
intentionality on the part of at least some
officers in the Greensboro Police Department.
00:23:52
We found that the events of November 3rd, 1979,
are woven through with issues of race and class.
00:24:01
Phoebe Judge: The commission placed
what they called, "the heaviest burden of responsibility," on the Klan and Nazis.
Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation Commissioner:
00:24:07
Who, after an initial stick fight with
demonstrators, returned to their cars, retrieved weapons, and fired at mostly unarmed
demonstrators, when the caravan's path of exit
00:24:20
was cleared and they could have fled. We find
that the Communist Workers Party members did
00:24:26
not seek or deserve to be killed. They
did, however, underestimate the danger of taunting the Klan with provocative language,
and for beating on caravan cars with sticks.
00:24:39
[Melancholy piano music.]
Phoebe Judge: How do you feel about the suggestion that
the CWP was not without responsibility for
00:24:49
the violence that occurred?
Signe Waller-Foxworth: OK. I think we are all responsible for
what we do and what we say, you know?
00:24:59
Phoebe Judge: Signe Waller.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: We are responsible for a certain naivete that we had, particularly
some of us more than others, about not realizing
00:25:10
the depths of negativity and crime of the Klan.
Particularly, if we're calling the Klan names,
00:25:24
which we did, and not that they didn't deserve
it. Our slogan, for example, "Death to the Klan."
00:25:32
When people say "death to the Klan" or "death
to something," they don't mean "I have a plan
00:25:37
to go out and assassinate somebody," they mean
"down with," "à bas," as they say in French. It
00:25:45
means you don't like what the Klan stands for.
That's what it means. It means death to racism.
00:25:51
In that sense, not being aware, not being
more circumspect, that's how I kind of summed
00:25:56
it up. Circumspect, you're looking around,
you understand that people who have played
00:26:04
a violent role in history can play it again,
will play it again, against you, you know?
00:26:09
Nelson Johnson: I have some regrets, and
I would have done some things differently.
00:26:16
I would have went forward with a march against the
Klan. I would not have used some of the language.
00:26:23
And perhaps I would have broadened the coalition
to include more of the clergy that I now work with
00:26:34
every day. So, there are some regrets, it's not
a regret that we stood up and we gave voice
00:26:40
to it. It's some of the tactical things
that may have helped there to be less damage done to us and to our community.
Phoebe Judge: Today, Nelson Johnson is a
00:26:52
pastor and the executive director of the
Beloved Community Center in Greensboro.
00:26:57
Signe Waller-Foxworth is also still an activist
in Greensboro and the author of a book called
00:27:02
Love and Revolution: A Political Memoir.
Signe Waller-Foxworth: We were organizers,
00:27:07
we were activists. I mean, we made some
mistakes, and we're responsible for our speech.
00:27:11
And if we acknowledge that responsibility of
not fully understanding that we unleashed this
00:27:18
historical violent monster, then that
is not tantamount to, "You are to blame for your comrades being murdered, your
husband, your friends being murdered."
00:27:31
[Plunking music.]
Phoebe Judge: This spring, a Southern Poverty
Law Center report found that new
00:27:43
Klan groups are on the rise and that
old, dormant chapters are reappearing. There are currently eight active
KKK groups in North Carolina.
00:27:56
[Guitar strums.]
Criminal is produced by Lauren Spohrer and me. Audio mix by Rob Byers.
Special thanks to Julie Shapiro, Dennis Funk,
00:28:12
Alice Wilder and Russ Henry. Julienne
Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You
can see them at thisiscriminal.com.
00:28:22
Criminal is recorded in the studios of North
Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We're a proud member
00:28:28
of Radiotopia from PRX, a collective of the best
podcasts around. And we're very happy to announce
00:28:35
a new member to our group, Millennial, hosted and
produced by Megan Tan. In it, Megan documents her
00:28:41
life, post-graduation, in serialized form.
Megan Tan: If you don't know what I mean
00:28:46
when I say "Millennial," here's an idea.
Speaker 1: A third of young Americans between
00:28:50
the ages of 18 and 34 years old have been
forced to move back in with their parents.
00:28:54
Speaker 2: 40% of the unemployed, that's
about 4.6 million people, are Millennials.
00:28:59
Megan Tan: And I'm one of those 4.6 million people
who doesn't have a job. I also have less than a
00:29:04
thousand dollars in my bank account. I don't
have health insurance because I can't afford
00:29:08
health insurance. I don't have a credit
card because I'm afraid of credit cards.
00:29:12
And my ultimate goal is this: to get paid to do
something that I love. But it's hard to imagine
00:29:18
that that's attainable when you're in your 20s.
Phoebe Judge: Go listen. Radiotopia from PRX is supported by
the Knight Foundation and MailChimp,
00:29:27
celebrating creativity, chaos, and teamwork.
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
00:29:33
Jingle: Radiotopia. From PRX.