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this week's episode is part of a special radiotopia-wide project welcoming a new
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show to the lineup it's called ear hustle and it features stories of life in prison told and produced by those
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incarcerated at San Quentin stay tuned after the show to hear preview to welcome your hustle all radiotopia
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shows are releasing an episode around one theme doing time each of us interpreted the theme in our own way you
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can listen to them all at radiotopia.fm here's ours it's called all the time in the world
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foreign this is a mandible the Jawbone oh and that skull is in half yeah this person was autopsied
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so this is an autopsy cut so that they can examine the brain there's a little bag here that says
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hands and feet do those usually get separated because it's there a lot of little small bones so we put them in
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a separate bag just so that they don't get scattered out throughout the box it's
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easier to keep them together Daniel Westcott the director of the forensic anthropology Center at Texas
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State University in San Marcos Texas about 30 miles from Austin we met with him in a non-descript
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building a warehouse really so plain we drove right past it twice but when you get out of the car and walk
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to the door you see a small paper sign with a vulture and a skull and you know you found it
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there are very few places in the world that do what they do here while you would think that we would know a lot
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about how bodies decompose it actually turns out that we really know very little about what's going on so this the
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work that's done here is pretty vital to that at Dr Westcott Center they deliberately set out human bodies to
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decompose in nature most of the bodies are lying on the ground face up with their arms at their
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sides but researchers also Place bodies in trunks of cars wrap them in tarps and
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bury them in Shallow Graves as a culture in some ways we actually are kind of scared of death and and you know we
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embalm bodies so that they don't decompose as fast and we don't want to see that process going on but that
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process does go on and we need to be able to understand how it works how big is the facility and how many
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bodies are here the facility is 26 acres and it sits on a 4200 acre ranch and we
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get about 70 donations a year so and then the bodies are usually left to decompose for about six months to
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several years depending on the research protocol and then the skeletons come back here
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and so we added about 70 skeletons per year to the collection so if you were to guess how many bodies
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are in some state of decomposition here right now do you know probably about 60.
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the bodies are donated they're called gifted bodies and the people who plan to donate themselves to the research when
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they die are called living donors you know if they want to do something like put me in the trunk of a car to see what
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happens there are under a tarp or a slab of concrete I I got no problem with that
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this is Grady early a retired computer science Professor who decided long ago that he wanted his body to go to the
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forensic anthropology Center why did you decide to become a donor I think that everyone should be useful
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in life and if you can be useful after death as well so much the better after all
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which would you rather do wind up in a box in the ground just wasting real estate or be in a box in the lab and at
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least potentially useful to a researcher sometime in future Grady early remembers when the facility
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was getting established more than 10 years ago and the University was struggling to find the right location
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they needed enough space but they also needed a place that wouldn't freak people out we looked at a side out at
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the airport some of the neighbors didn't like the idea and they said well that's going to
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attract vultures so we'll have Birds interfering with the aircraft side over behind the outlet mall and uh
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there were some people that were unhappy with that idea there's there's always nimbies around
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he's given money to the facility and become fascinated by what he describes as quote helping bones tell their story
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when his body eventually becomes part of the research he'll be joining his mother
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she's already there it was an astonishing thing although in retrospect I suppose it shouldn't have been when I
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told my mother what I was planning on doing she being a fairly practical woman said
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that sounds like a wonderful idea sign me up so I did she died at 102. Grady says he doesn't really care what
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happens to him when he goes into the field some bodies are placed in the open with the vultures and coyotes and some
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are protected by long low cages some are clothed and some aren't it all depends on the nature of the experiment
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it's odd to think that if all goes as planned Grady early will one day return to the very building where he sat and
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talked to us packed in cardboard with the bones of his hands and feet in a small paper bag what I would really like
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to do is have my skeleton articulated and hung up somewhere in the facility so I can keep my eye on what's going on
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in his work at Texas State Dr Wescott is following in the footsteps of his Professor the biggest name in this field
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Dr Bill Bass Dr Bass opened the University of Tennessee anthropological research
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facility in 1981. it was the first of these so-called body forms although we learned no scientists
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call them that and he pioneered the idea that we needed a death database if too much time has passed when law
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enforcement encounters a body they have no way to tell when the person died much less who they were or what happened
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and the only way to answer these questions is to put a body outside and watch it decompose
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I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal [Music] here's what happens when you die after your heart stops beating your
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muscles start to stiffen and rigor mortis sets in over the next few days the bacteria
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that's already in your body just starts to take over and so as they do they start to produce
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gases and these gases initially will just kind of work their way through the arteries and veins stuff like that and
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you get what's called marbling and then it also then the next kind of step to this is that that gas starts to build up
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and causes the bodies to go through what's called a bloat stage so they'll actually kind of puff up
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how long after death does that happen it depends on the time of year but it can it can range from
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three or four days to a few weeks usually here probably within about five days they're going into bloat
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um once that happens so then the other thing that's happening is that you're also getting
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flies that are attracted to the body and those flies are laying eggs and they tend to lay eggs in natural orphans so
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they like the eyes ears nose mouth stuff like that and then they um so those maggots will hatch and there
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again depends on the species and and the temperature and depends on how long it takes but usually a few days to a week
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or so and they start feeding on the body as well so you've got that process going on and
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then you've got the internal organs are decomposing and so those internal organs
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are kind of liquefying and with the gas that's building up that liquid gets pushed out and that's what we call the
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purge phase so that you get what's called Purge fluid and so it's just a dark fluid
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dark yeah what is it it's not blood what is it no it's just a combination of all
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the internal or organs that have decomposed [Music] this is a big place it is a big place
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all right so we turn between the two first two telephones the bodies are placed on Freeman Ranch
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which sits off a small highway just a few miles from the lab once you pass through the gates you see
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what I only imagine you might see on any number of ranches in Texas Cactus tall green grass and cows
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we just kept driving down a dirt road taking a left or right whenever we were told to
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and then we arrived the only difference between this part of the ranch and any other was the giant
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fence and locked gate [Music] so our first stop will be at the shed there to put on booties okay and
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in reality what the booties are for is so that in case you actually you know step in something you don't drag it back
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to your car are you wow are you kidding that's exactly why everybody thinks it's
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so that's like protecting the scene but it's actually so that you don't drag home Decon fluid on your shoes The Purge
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fluid right into the back into the minivan right all right uh let's see we'll start this way
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so typically the way that this works is the way the body's a place depends on what research protocol they're being
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used in but typically they're left uncaged on the surface caged on the surface buried or wrapped in something
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so this is one that's left on the surface only a few feet from the gate sits the
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first body it was hard to pick out at first because of the tall grass around it and this is where an individual was
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originally closed and then the scattering is from from the different scavengers that have come
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so we can see a pair of sneakers and a pair of pants and a sock but then the bones are
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all kind of broken apart yeah they're kind of pulled apart at different places who what animal did this well mostly it
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started out with vultures and then probably you've had some raccoons and other things come since then but most of
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this is vulture activity I had no idea what to expect when we walked into that field I was nervous about a lot of
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things wondering whether I'd be able to get these images out of my head that night when I went to sleep trying to
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figure out how I would carry on an interview while not breathing through my nose regretting not bringing a change of
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clothes but this actually seemed okay that first body hadn't been that bad and then we turned a corner all right so
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the area that we're getting ready oh look at this the area we're getting ready to pass actually a uh this right
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here is as a researcher uh actually from New York that's here so she's got bodies
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on the surface and bodies that are buried oh this is really something so um there was a field of bodies under
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cages and unlike what we had just seen these bodies seemed kind of new all were unclothed I could see one man
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in a cage out of my right eye his stomach was so bloated that it almost touched the top of the cage and his
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limbs were spread out to the sides his skin was a mix of black and brown and purple splotches I was trying to stay
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back but Dr Westcott won straight form as you can see the maggots pretty active yeah
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um at this time stage and then so this person has gone through bloat you guys all right yeah but this is wild
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stuff this is wild stuff I don't think many people in their lives see stuff like
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this so you can see let's talk about the skin kind of becomes really dark associated with the sulfuric gas that's
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produced by the bacteria and stuff and then you get the active maggot masses going on
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he kept drawing our attention to things that none of us actually wanted to see up close
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so we were trying to stay with him but also just trying to keep our eyes straight ahead
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it was hard to know what to do and it was hot over 90 degrees and then Dr Wescott took us to a row of
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bodies under cages which seemed to be showing a progression kind of going through time in a sense and you can see
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um that they've gone through bloat they're actually starting to starting to dry out
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yep so this is we're kind of going through the process here walking down the line
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yeah so you can see there's these are starting to get skeletonized how long have these guys been out here
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do you think these have been out here probably a little over a year but you can see now you can't even see
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the cadaver decomposition matter of fact you can barely see the body anymore because all that vegetation around it
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perch fluid is so nutrient Rich that it acts like a super fertilizer and so bodies in the final stages of
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decomposition are surrounded by Bunches of these tall healthy wildflowers the flowers are back the flowers are
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back yeah Dr Wescott is working on a new project that uses drones and infrared cameras to
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detect how much organic material is in the soil if law enforcement is trying to locate a
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missing person in a huge area 5000 Acres they can use the Drone technology to narrow things down looking for spots
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with a lot of organic material they're also working with police dogs most cadaver dogs are trained with small
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tissue samples but it turns out the dogs don't always know how to react when they encounter a
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whole body so police bring their dogs to the ranch to get used to finding the real thing
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these different experiments are spread around the ranch and Texas state collaborates with other facilities Dr
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Westcott showed us an experiment where three different centers across the country placed a body on the exact same
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day to compare Regional differences so the the the body that we're looking at right there
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it seems to me to be rather new yeah the spirit individual was probably placed yesterday
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oh that's a brand new body yes it oh isn't that something our last stop was a clearing with three
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shallow Graves on the day we visited they were in the process of Excavating the skeletons the
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excavation was being done by more than 20 students all women a lot of this work is done by women Dr
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Westcott is the only male director in the country and almost all of his colleagues and his graduate students are
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women Dr Kate Spradley was in charge of the excavation it's interesting I think to do this kind
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of work to look at all of these dead bodies basically and all of these human remains in the lab I see a
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skeleton I see a task at hand I see a job that I have to do particularly with with the forensic cases that come in we
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have a job to help identify those so going in there analyzing the skeleton that's what we do for me it's different
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when I walk out to this the forensic anthropology research facility where people donate their bodies because here
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when I see remains I see people who donate their bodies this was their last wish this is what they wanted to do so
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for me it's very nice coming out here seeing them in their final resting place and it's very natural they just return
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to the Earth are you a donor I am a donor are other members of your family no nobody else wants to do this but me
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um my husband is pretty uneasy about it but I've looked at so many skeletons I've built my career on looking at
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skeletons so I think it's only right that I give back just listen to the birds yeah it's incredibly peaceful yeah it's
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a beautiful place to be on our way out we made one last stop the same stop that all the bodies make
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before they leave the ranch the processing lab what does the kettle do I just it just
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simmers them for a little bit to loosens up all the soft tissue yes they really are just giant soup
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kettles um but then what's the crock pot for a small hands and feet and stuff like that
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to the small bones a lot of times it's easier to finish them off in there and then so they're cooked in here and then
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they're um but over here and they they scrub them all down what are these little guys down
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here tips your fingers that's a fingertip yep and these are all toes and you can see
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the little teeny toes and then these little things right there these are these are actually extras not they're
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not even included in the 206. you know it looks like wood this bone almost looks like wood yeah it
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kicks on the color of the soil we saw two complete skeletons laid on metal gurneys and organized anatomically
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it's amazing to see how fragile our ribs are we were very lucky to be permitted to
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visit normally only law enforcement and researchers are allowed in even if you decide to donate your body
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you'll never be able to see this place while you're alive but people do ask well usually when someone calls they say
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something along the lines of I'm interested in donating my body to science and I hear that you take bodies
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if you call for information you'll speak with Lauren meckel and so I let them know about the friends again their
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apology Center and how their body can help identify missing persons and they usually get very excited about that and
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they they ask about some of the research projects they were doing um specifically about the vulture
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studies people are really interested in vulture consumption of human remains like they want to be part of that study
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or they do not want to be part of that study many people actually are very interested in being a part of that study
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they see it as a sky burial so it's something that seems peaceful I suppose you can actually make requests and
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they'll try to honor them you can ask to wear a certain item of clothing or a piece of jewelry you can ask to be
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placed under a tree one man asked to be placed with a cell phone and they did it
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people also called to ask about the status of a friend or family member so people say I'm just wondering if
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they're all decomposed now and they're back inside yes I think I would that's the question I
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would want to know too if someone was if you got them off the ground and back in
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the box yes and usually people are surprised by how long it takes to because sometimes
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it can be six months if we're doing um a study where someone dropped in a tarp for instance and they skeletonized
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really quickly and then we can pick them up really fairly soon after their death
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but for the most part they stay out there for about two years many of the donors have spent their life
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in education and see this as a way to continue teaching after they've died and many work in law enforcement and have
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seen the value of the research firsthand I kind of see it as an extension of being an investigator
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Elaine Walker is a retired private investigator and last year she made the decision to donate her body to the
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forensic investigation research station in Colorado how do you like retired life
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it's the best job I've ever had oh good I loved my job but this is the best job I've ever had
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may ask how old you are 67 you're 67. but why not donate your body to science in another way like a
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organ donor is there something about the I guess that there's no investigative quality when you donate your liver
00:23:03
well no but I am an organ donor however at my age some of my organs are you know
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wouldn't really work out in somebody else's body they're a little on the old side
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how do you imagine the Body Farm peaceful have you seen pictures no I haven't seen pictures I would imagine
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it's peaceful um it is out away from civilization and I imagine that there are just bodies
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laying there and birds coming in to Feast on them yeah this bothered me at all that I'm going to be eating
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that's a wild thing to be talking about isn't it yes it is what did you tell your family when you
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signed up how did they respond my husband isn't very excited about it but he respects that that's what I want to
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do what will your husband do when he dies uh that's a good question because he won't discuss it
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he's so terrified of death he won't discuss it wasn't that interesting it's like
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opposite ends of the spectrum yes it really is so I but I did tell him that I was going to send him off the cheapest
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way possible if he doesn't tell me what he wants but he still won't tell me what he wants
00:24:27
Elaine was the fourth person we spoke with who planned to donate their body to a body Farm but whose spouse refused to
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even talk about it even Dr Bill Bass the pioneer of the Body Farm is leaving the decision up to
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his wife since that trip I keep thinking about one particular part of Freeman Ranch a
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patch of woods off the main path it was greener than other places Shady Dr Wescott stopped us there and asked us
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to listen to The Birds right in front of us there was a body under a tree protected from the Sun
00:25:06
someone who thought they might be able to do some good someone who agreed to be placed outside under the trees with the
00:25:15
bugs until they disappear foreign Spore Nadia Wilson and Me audiomix by Rob Byers special thanks to Sergeant
00:25:38
Zachary McBride of the Guadalupe County Sheriff's office this week we say goodbye to our long-standing intern
00:25:45
Alice Wilder Alice is responsible for some of our favorite stories like Tony the Tiger at the truck stop and the
00:25:53
woman who borrowed a bra from a postal worker Alice even approached dozens of strangers to ask them what 420 means
00:26:01
she's on her way to New York for her next chapter in podcasting we're gonna miss her and wish her all the best
00:26:07
Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal you can see them at
00:26:13
thisiscriminal.com if you liked this episode and what we're doing review us on iTunes so others can find us say
00:26:21
hello on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram criminal is recorded in the studios of
00:26:27
North Carolina public radio wunc we're a proud member of radiotopia from PRX and we're excited to welcome a
00:26:35
new show into the radiotopia family ear hustle shares true stories of life in San Quentin State Prison told
00:26:44
directly by and from the men living there the show won radiotopia's podquest contest last year beating at more than
00:26:52
1500 entries from around the world you can hear preview in just a moment radiotopia is supported by the Knight
00:26:59
foundation and thanks to adserc for providing their ad serving platform to radiotopia I'm Phoebe judge this is
00:27:08
Criminal foreign podcast contains language that may not be appropriate for all listeners
00:27:20
I did not realize that I could be potentially facing life in prison now I'm going to drag you through four
00:27:26
corners of this sale it's like that it's like I don't want to be in prison but I want to know what it's like
00:27:33
to be in prison you really think people want to know what it's like in prison you got all these TV shows new programs
00:27:43
like uh Prison Break Orange is the New Black locked up you won't let me and you know all the shows but they all [ __ ]
00:27:51
though why why are they [ __ ] this ain't none of them serving time they never did no real time yeah and in
00:27:57
prison ain't really like that no man we just living life like everybody else I'm
00:28:01
erlin Woods erline is serving a 31 year to life sentence for attempted second degree robbery and he's the co-host and
00:28:08
co-producer of ear hustle and that is Nigel poor she's a visual artist who works with incarcerated men here at San
00:28:14
Quentin and she's the co-producer and co-host of air hustle see she brings a softer touch to the show thanks Antoine
00:28:22
welcome that's Antoine Williams he's serving a 15-year sentence for armed robbery with a gun enhancement and he's
00:28:28
the sound designer for ear Hustle I believed I was going to die in prison she was happy to be with me we all
00:28:37
worked together inside of the media lab in San Quentin prison where we produce your hustle and it's all done inside the
00:28:43
prison I mean the interviewing editing sound design by your boy and that's really cool but it also is super
00:28:51
challenging because we have limited hours we can work we've got no internet access and we can't even freaking talk
00:28:56
to each other on the phone what and on top of all that prison is never a quiet place okay okay
00:29:05
and that's great hey e tell everyone what you're hustling means it means being nosy and
00:29:12
eavesdropping and learning more about what actually happens inside of prison you'll be hearing directly from the guys
00:29:18
that's doing the time see we're going to be telling stories all kind of stories that range from starting a family uh
00:29:24
having pets misguided loyalty fashion food cooking isolation sibling rivalry mommy daddy time and we got a lot of
00:29:32
ground to cover over our first season we decided to kick off this season with a story that everybody can relate to
00:29:39
finding somebody to live with in prison terms that means finding a cellmate can we hear just a little bit
00:29:47
of it nope yep nope okay okay wait just a little bit hold on hold on hold on only because you said please
00:29:54
when we sell these I didn't smoke he was smoking cigarettes and he just lit up right there on the bunk and he's like
00:30:00
man you're trying to kill me you're killing me with this you're gonna kill me with cancer man shut the [ __ ] up with
00:30:05
that [ __ ] man God it's like man we are in prison for life you know I have 67 years to life man I am smoking this
00:30:13
cigarette so that's episode one of your hustle coming soon from radiotopia from PRX
00:30:19
before we go huge props to a crucial partner in all it is and that's Lieutenant Sam Robinson the San Quentin
00:30:25
public information officer without his guidance and support none of this will be happening he also has to listen to
00:30:31
all of our stories and okay them before they go out even this promo so what about it Lieutenant are we cool this is
00:30:38
Lieutenant Sam Robinson the public information officer at San Quentin State Prison and I approve this story and
00:30:43
please visit our website airhuselsq.com you can subscribe to the podcast sign up for our newsletter and
00:30:51
find out how to send us a question by postcard that we might answer on a future episode that's air hustle sq.com
00:30:58
so kick back relax because we're about to take you inside [Music] from PRX