00:00:02
Sandie Alger: At one time, I was in a co-ed
prison. That was really nice for a drug addict girl.
00:00:08
Phoebe Judge: Why? Sandie Alger: Why was it really nice? Well, there was about 200 women and 800 men.
00:00:19
That's why. I mean, I would just be whoever's girlfriend
had the dope. That's what girls do when they're drug addicts,
a lot.
00:00:29
[Plunking piano music.] Clay Tumey: She just kind of rolls her eyes. And she [sighs] opens the drawer real slowly,
and she grabs a couple of hundreds and a couple
00:00:41
of fifties, and I could see clear as day that
it wasn't all of anything. And she puts the envelope and she slides it
back, and I didn't even pick it up.
00:00:50
I just looked at it and I said, "You can..." This is one of the only times I ever actually
spoke during a robbery.
00:00:55
I said, "You can do better than that." She puts her hand up, kind of like the shrug
motion, palms up, and she goes, "That's all
00:01:04
I got." Diane Ranney: It's a little fun, sometimes,
to see how people react when they have that
00:01:12
morphine in them. Larry Pollard: Owls are one of the only birds
in the world that have microscopic feathers.
00:01:22
They go all the way down their legs, down
their toes, on their feet, all the way to
00:01:30
the talons. And they look like little fibers. Not feathers like you're thinking, but fibers.
00:01:37
Melissa Holes: And before I could explain
how I was going to search her, she started
00:01:42
undressing in the middle of the parking lot
to give me back the petrified wood. Phoebe Judge: Just massive amounts came down
out of her chest?
00:01:49
Melissa Holes: Yes, very much so. Bob Perkins: This concept about somebody killing
a tree and then getting prosecuted for it
00:01:57
is just not ... I mean, that just doesn't
happen at all. You never hear about that.
00:02:03
Shelton Chappell: He said, "Young man, you
don't know half of the story." I said, "What are you talking about?"
00:02:12
He said, "Well, I'm the officer who caught
the killers who killed your mom." Phoebe Judge: For the past two and a half
years, we've brought you stories of people
00:02:24
who, as we like to say, have done wrong, been
wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the
00:02:29
middle. And we've met absolutely fascinating people. People Like Mr. Pete, a man who lived his
entire life locked away from the world in
00:02:38
a hospital for leprosy patients, a hospital
that was briefly also a minimum security prison.
00:02:46
Mr. Pete told us he hoped to die there. Mr. Pete: I'm supposed to be getting out now.
00:02:52
I'm almost 85 years old. So, this is it. Put me in a nice, shady pecan tree. Phoebe Judge: You plan to be buried at Carville,
here.
00:03:05
Mr. Pete: Yeah. You have your choice. I know my family are not going to take me
home.
00:03:13
It costs too much money to ship the body. Phoebe Judge: Pete did not get his wish to
live the remainder of his life there, but
00:03:22
he's doing well in a nursing home in Baton
Rouge. We checked in on him and learned he fared
the recent floods just fine.
00:03:30
And people like Tommy Wall, a man who spent
more than a hundred days in jail because of
00:03:35
a wrongful child pornography charge. Mary: Every time that someone sees his face,
they say he's Tommy Wall.
00:03:42
That's the boy they arrested. Even though they may know, or they may not
know. He can never live it down.
00:03:50
You just don't have a charge of pedophilia
and outlive it. You just can't outlive that.
00:03:57
Phoebe Judge: When we left Tommy, he hadn't
even been out of jail for two months.
00:04:01
He was having trouble leaving the house. He'd drive down the street, change his mind,
and turn around and go home.
00:04:08
He felt incredibly alienated. But people had started reaching out to him
over text message.
00:04:15
Can you read it? Tommy Wall: What it was, it says, "Hey, buddy. Wishing you the best.
00:04:22
Merry freaking Christmas." And then, she goes to say [tearfully], "I
have thought about you for months, and I hope
00:04:33
you are doing well. I really, truly hope your holidays are special
for 2015. God bless you.
00:04:44
Keep your head up. Love you. Hope to see you soon." Phoebe Judge: That was a year and a half ago.
00:04:52
Tommy now has a new job with a building company. His old job never did hire him back.
00:04:59
This week he wrote to us, "Slowly, I'm getting
back after the damage. I have no complaints.
00:05:04
You press forward." [Upbeat percussive music.] So, here we are, 50 episodes in. And, for our 50th, we're marking the occasion
by checking back in with some of our most
00:05:14
memorable guests from the last couple of years. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.
00:05:25
To choose which stories we'd revisit, we asked
you to tell us who you'd most like to hear
00:05:39
from again. So that's what we have for you today. Let's start with one of our most popular episodes,
#15.
00:05:47
It's called "He's Neutral," and it's about
a man in Oakland, California, who was fed
00:05:51
up with crime in his neighborhood — people
buying and selling drugs, sex workers.
00:05:55
But, what annoyed
Dan Stevenson the most was the junk, mattresses and furniture and garbage just piling up outside
of his house.
00:06:04
Here's a little bit from that episode. Phoebe Judge: So, you would wake up in the
morning sometimes to an eight-foot pile of
00:06:13
crap? Dan Stevenson: Yeah. And, if the city didn't come fast enough,
it could get higher, because it's like a magnet.
00:06:23
Once you've got a stack of stuff, other people
think, "Oh, there's an idea," and they keep
00:06:29
stacking it. Phoebe Judge: So what did you decide to do
about it? Dan Stevenson: Well, that is a good question.
00:06:39
Lu and I discussed this for quite some time,
and we came up with the idea of a Buddha,
00:06:48
to put a Buddha there. Phoebe Judge: Are you Buddhists? Dan Stevenson: No, we have nothing to do with
Buddhism at all.
00:06:53
Phoebe Judge: But, you figured if there's
one thing that might help here, it's Buddha?
00:07:00
Dan Stevenson: Well, yeah, because he's neutral. If we threw Christ up there, he's controversial.
00:07:08
Everybody's got a deal about him. But, Buddha, nobody seems to be that perturbed,
in general, about a Buddha.
00:07:18
Phoebe Judge: So, Dan and Lu had made up their
minds, and it turns out they had a lot of
00:07:30
options. Dan Stevenson: We'd looked at the different
ones, and she picked out one that she liked
00:07:34
the face. Because they come out of a concrete cast,
so some of them look more mellow than others.
00:07:41
Phoebe Judge: Lu went off to Ace Hardware
and picked one out. Dan Stevenson: Which she brought home, and
I liked him.
00:07:46
He looked cool to me. And then he sat in the basement for about
three or four months because I couldn't figure
00:07:52
out a way to put him over there without having
him stolen or ruined. And those things would've really pissed me
off.
00:08:00
Finally, I came up with a plan. Phoebe Judge: Dan attached the Buddha to the
concrete, and what happened is that little
00:08:08
by little, the Buddha became more and more
ornately decorated. It was painted and then painted again.
00:08:14
He has a house around him and flags and flowers,
incense. It became a real shrine, a gathering place
for members of Oakland's Vietnamese Buddhist
00:08:24
community. Which is mostly the work of one family. Here's Vina Vo and her husband, with some
translating help from their son, Cuk Vo.
00:08:33
Vina comes every morning at 7 a.m. to pray. Vina Vo: Every day, in morning, 7:00.
00:08:41
Every day. For one day, two time, 7:00 and 4:00. 6:00, I go home. Every day. I make over here.
00:08:52
I make my [speaking Vietnamese] and my husband
make over here. Mr. Vo: [Speaks Vietnamese.]
00:09:01
Cuk Vo: My dad says, "All thanks to Dan here. We asked the city council to let us build
this shrine to make it all happen.
00:09:11
We asked all the neighbors involved to help
us put this together, so we can have a peaceful
00:09:17
shrine here. And make the neighbors calm down a little
bit, so we can have a peaceful mindedness
00:09:23
and tranquility." Phoebe Judge: The Vo family keeps the shrine
in beautiful condition, sweeping and tidying.
00:09:30
Since this episode aired, many of you have
visited the Buddha and sent us photos, so
00:09:34
we've been able to watch it as it gets more
elaborate. Here's what Dan told us about the whole situation
the first time we spoke with him.
00:09:41
Phoebe Judge: How many people are coming? How many people are coming on a daily basis,
would you say, to see the Buddha?
00:09:48
Dan Stevenson: Oh, at least 70. Phoebe Judge: A day? Dan Stevenson: A day. Yeah.
00:09:52
And then, there's also [laughing] the tourists
thing. They'll knock on my door, and they're from
Minneapolis, and somebody on Facebook posted
00:10:01
something. They want to take my picture with them in
front of the Buddha. For me, as cynical as I am, this is like,
"What is happening?"
00:10:12
Phoebe Judge: But, that's not the end of the
story. Dan Stevenson: Oh, the crime has pretty much
disappeared in a sense.
00:10:18
The drug dealing definitely is gone, and so
is the prostitution. I mean, there's none, zero, within quite a
distance from our area now.
00:10:31
But, it's a slow process that I didn't notice
it happening, and didn't even think of it
00:10:36
in those terms until I read it in the paper. Phoebe Judge: In September, a reporter for
the San Francisco Chronicle did a story on
00:10:43
Dan and the Buddha, and asked the Oakland
police department for the updated crime statistics
00:10:48
for the neighborhood. Here's what he wrote: "Since 2012, when worshipers
began showing up for daily prayers, overall,
00:10:57
year-to-date crime has dropped by 82%." Phoebe Judge: We checked in with Dan a few
weeks ago.
00:11:05
Dan Stevenson: We're still living in the same
house, yes, and Buddha and Buddha's activities
00:11:12
have grown exponentially, I guess. He's very big in town. Every once in a while somebody will knock
on the door to come in and tell me that they're
00:11:26
working on trying to find a new home for the
Buddha. Legally, they've got some suits, I understand,
against the Buddha being there because it's
00:11:36
public property, technically. This is the new thing. They're not going to tear him out yet.
00:11:40
They just want to have a new home. Like I have anything to say about it one way
or the other.
00:11:47
I tell them, "I don't think you understand
the magnitude of Buddha being there, but do
00:11:54
whatever you think you've got to do. It's out of my hands." Phoebe Judge: So, even though this is on public
land, you kind of did it illegally, putting
00:12:05
it out there. You are still sort of seen as the owner? Dan Stevenson: Well, it seems that way.
00:12:12
I tried to explain it to the city, that the
shrine's there because it's there, and that's
00:12:20
where it is. It's not something you move to someplace else,
and everybody's going to traipse over there.
00:12:25
He's there for some reason. Originally, I put him in there to stop the
garbage and all that kind of stuff, which,
00:12:33
that works. So, I mean, I'm done. Phoebe Judge: So, whether you like it or not,
you're the keeper of the Buddha.
00:12:41
Dan Stevenson: [Laughs.] Oh, goodness. Phoebe Judge: You're stuck with him. Dan Stevenson: Yeah.
00:12:51
I guess so. Yeah. That's the role that seems to have been laid
down there. Phoebe Judge: Are you kind of famous?
00:13:01
[Dan laughs.] It feels like you're a little bit famous. Dan Stevenson: A little bit famous ... I don't
know about that.
00:13:14
That's pretty funny, though. [Laughs.] [Upbeat violin music.] A little bit famous ... I don't know.
00:13:20
What's that mean? Phoebe Judge: I think it's probably better
than a lot famous. I think all you would ever want to be a little
bit famous.
00:13:26
Dan Stevenson: Yeah. Well, there's no money in it, I'll tell you
that much. Phoebe Judge: One other little update is that
Dan says a second Buddha has popped up a few
00:13:37
blocks away. It's not as fancy, and Dan says he has no
idea who could've installed it.
00:13:44
[Upbeat violin music continues.] Fran Schindler: I am known as an exit guide. I sit with people who have made a decision
and made a choice to end their lives on their
00:14:02
own terms. Phoebe Judge: When we first heard about Fran
Schindler, her previous life as a nurse and
00:14:08
her life now as an exit guide, we knew that
we wanted to talk to her. Not just because her work seems so interesting,
but also because of the fact that she was
00:14:18
possibly doing something illegal. We asked her to join us at our live show in
Durham, North Carolina, in early 2015, for
00:14:26
a conversation, which we recorded. Fran Schindler: I'm a volunteer with an organization
that supports an individual's right to choose
00:14:37
to end their lives, if they are mentally competent
and suffering intolerably from a physical
00:14:46
illness. Phoebe Judge: So, they call. You go through a rather rigorous process to
make sure that everything's above board.
00:14:56
And then, you go there, and what you do is
act as a guide to educate and help them understand
00:15:08
what the process will be. But, what happens when you go is that what
your organization has found to be the most
00:15:15
effective, peaceful — whatever word you
might like to use ... way — is to place ... An individual will place a bag over their
head, and that bag will be connected in some
00:15:32
way to a source of gas, which will create
a peaceful death. How long does it take for someone to die in
that manner?
00:15:43
Fran Schindler: Our preferred method is, as
you say, the use of an inert gas that requires
00:15:50
the use of a hood. It is easy, it's 100% effective, and it's
peaceful. Once a person pulls that hood down over their
head, they are unconscious in 5 to 10 seconds.
00:16:07
That's all they know, and they will die within
15 to 20 minutes when their entire brain and
00:16:16
brain stem shuts down. Phoebe Judge: How many deaths have you been
present for? Fran Schindler: I have been a compassionate
presence at the bedside of 30 people.
00:16:29
Phoebe Judge: Since we spoke with Fran a year
and a half ago, the number of people she's
00:16:34
sat with at their death has climbed to almost
40. She's 77 now, still traveling all around the
country, sitting with people in the last moments
00:16:43
of their lives. Fran Schindler: And things have changed since
we last spoke. Our preferred method remains the use of an
inert gas, but no longer helium.
00:16:54
Phoebe Judge: Why? Fran Schindler: Helium has been adulterated
with air, so it is no longer effective.
00:17:02
Phoebe Judge: The Final Exit Network is now
recommending the use of nitrogen, which Fran
00:17:08
says is as effective as helium was, and works
the same way. One of her most recent cases was with a woman
with ALS.
00:17:16
Fran Schindler: She was pretty far gone before
they really decided what she had.
00:17:24
But she was paralyzed from the waist down. But by the time we got there, she still had
full functioning of her hands and arms and
00:17:32
could do everything. But while all this was going on, before she
knew about us, she tried to end her life.
00:17:42
I'm not going to say what she used, but she
was smart. She was a trained nurse. She tried three times.
00:17:50
The first time she was out for a while, and
her husband promised her that he wouldn't
00:17:58
call EMS or anything. He would just be there for her. Well, she woke up. And then, they regrouped until
she felt a little stronger.
00:18:12
She tried again, upping things, and she was
out longer. She still woke up, and he sat at home with
her through all of this, alone.
00:18:28
She tried one more time, and she was out four
days. And that man sat in the house waiting for
his wife to die, and he was terrified.
00:18:43
He said, "I went down there one time." He said, "And I almost thought I would have
to put a pillow over her face."
00:18:50
And she opened her eyes, and he couldn't do
it. She woke up again, after four days.
00:18:57
I do not know how this woman was not already
brain-dead. But, she wasn't. She woke up.
00:19:03
She was just fine. She learned about us from her son, who happened
to work for the sheriff's department in the
00:19:10
town we were in. That gave me a start. Oh, my God. This guy works for law enforcement?
00:19:18
Nope. They contacted us. I visited them, and, actually, I only waited
two days from the first visit until I went
00:19:28
back. She wanted to go the minute I got there. I said, "We can't do that. You've got to be absolutely sure about all
of this."
00:19:38
And she said, "I just don't think I can ever
get dead." And so, I said, "I promise you, you will be
dead.
00:19:48
I promise you I will never leave you until
I am absolutely certain that you are dead."
00:19:56
And her husband was so relieved, I cannot
tell you. He had tears in his eyes. He thought that we were just going to come
there and talk to them, and then we would
00:20:09
leave, and he would be alone with her again. Phoebe Judge: But, there have been some legal
challenges.
00:20:16
In May of 2015, a Minnesota court ruled that
the Final Exit Network had assisted in a suicide
00:20:23
based on speech alone, that providing instructions
was blueprint enough to be considered 'assisting.'
00:20:31
The court found that the Final Exit Network
had committed a felony by not only assisting
00:20:36
a suicide, but also interfering with a death
scene. They were ordered to pay $33,000 in fines.
00:20:44
Fran Schindler: The thing about that verdict
being rendered makes it such that some states
00:20:55
that still have the words "advising" and "encouraging"
in their statute could come after us just
00:21:05
for speaking with someone, if they chose to
do that. Phoebe Judge: So, when Fran was contacted
by a woman in Minnesota, she realized she
00:21:14
was going to need to be creative. The woman's name is Faith Riverstone. She's 47 years old and suffering from frontotemporal
dementia.
00:21:23
Fran Schindler: She came to my house. I had her stay at my home. I educated her in my home, everything she
needed to know.
00:21:34
Phoebe Judge: So, because of this legal ruling,
you couldn't actually talk to her about any
00:21:40
of these things that deal with death or end-of-life
in the state of Minnesota. She had to come to North Carolina.
00:21:46
Fran Schindler: That's right. Phoebe Judge: And then, did you bring her
back to Minnesota?
00:21:49
Fran Schindler: Yes, I did. We went back on the plane. I stay in touch with her by phone, and I will
know when she wants to end her life.
00:21:59
She will have to find a place outside of Minnesota
to end her life. She talked about, she wished she could go
someplace where there was a nice lake and
00:22:14
woods. And she could have several days of just enjoying
the quiet and the woods and the lake, and
00:22:25
then she would end her life. Wherever she goes, I will go with her. She knows that.
00:22:32
I will not abandon her. I don't know when this will be. She will have to call it herself.
00:22:40
And she calls me, so she's still mentally
competent. She knows who I am. She can call me.
00:22:47
So, so far, so good. Phoebe Judge: Fran says she gets a lot of
messages from people seeking her help.
00:22:54
Many come in the middle of the night. And while she has to turn away most everyone,
she does respond.
00:23:00
Fran Schindler: And all I can say is "I am
so sorry for your suffering and the tragic
00:23:06
circumstances this disease has caused in your
life. However, the legal risk to the network is
simply too great, and we cannot offer you
00:23:17
any services." And, you know what? Very often, they write back and say, "Thank
you for responding to me."
00:23:25
Go figure. I mean, they want to be heard, at least. [Violin riff.] Phoebe Judge: Almost a year after we first
spoke with Fran, we drove out to Haw River,
00:23:47
North Carolina, to meet two police dogs named
Talon and Vader, and their owner, Corporal
00:23:53
Scott Foster of the Hillsborough Police Department. We had no idea what to expect.
00:23:58
I certainly never thought that I would end
the day in a gigantic padded suit, basically
00:24:02
offering myself up as bait during attack training. We went because we'd read that Scott had retired
his police dog Talon and was just a few months
00:24:11
into working with his new dog, Vader. The dogs did their best to live together at
Scott's home, along with a third German Shepherd,
00:24:19
a female named Dutch. Here's a little bit from that first meeting. Phoebe Judge: Can you imagine if Talon saw
Vader and you drive away in the police car?
00:24:26
Scott Foster: It would have to be heartbreaking. And that's why I go to such extent with the
different kennels and the different parts
00:24:32
of my yard, just to make sure it doesn't happen. It may be silly to a certain point that I'm
putting human emotions on an animal that may
00:24:41
not feel it. But, I don't want him to see Vader in equipment
that he would recognize and me in a uniform
00:24:47
that he would recognize, leaving in what at
one time was his car. Phoebe Judge: In terms of keeping them separate,
it's like you're living these two lives.
00:24:57
Like you're cheating on Talon with Vader. Scott Foster: Yeah, it's funny you should
say that because there has been different
00:25:02
times that it has happened, where I've slipped
up and one's potentially seen me with the
00:25:06
other one. It's that
very feeling like you've just described. It's almost like, "Oops, I got caught," kind
of thing.
00:25:13
Honestly, I think it's worth it. They put so much into protecting me, serving
the community, and I just really feel that
00:25:22
I owe it to them to try to do everything I
can, and especially Talon, to let him hold
00:25:27
on to that dignity that he had for so long. Phoebe Judge: Scott just put his house on
the market.
00:25:43
He says he doesn't think his place has enough
room for all the dogs, which seems a little
00:25:47
wild because it actually looks like a dog
paradise. But, Scott says until maybe one day when Talon
and Vader can be together, he wants to make
00:25:56
sure they both have enough room so neither
one feels like they're getting the bum deal.
00:26:02
[Piano music.] Phoebe Judge: This is really nice down here. This is all yours. Scott Foster: Yeah, this is all my property.
00:26:11
This was truly the selling point, more so
even than the house. Phoebe Judge: So, the update is that Scott
and his family actually did move to accommodate
00:26:19
the dogs. We drove out to the new house, which is on
a huge piece of property with lots of trees
00:26:25
for shade. And, the biggest thing? A creek for swimming. Scott Foster: So before, the two kennels I
had, I would have to walk them past each other,
00:26:35
the way my yard was laid out before. And so now, there's really no need to even
walk him past Vader, with his kennel being
00:26:41
in the front. It just works out really well. [Talon whines.] [Speaking to Talon.]
00:26:46
Talon? She's OK. She's OK. OK. [Chain link fence clangs lightly, dog pants
and sniffs.]
00:26:53
Phoebe Judge: So, would you say the dogs were
the real impetus for the move? Scott Foster: Oh, absolutely.
00:26:58
Yeah. The dogs were the only reason for the move,
to be honest with you. We were really happy with that house, but
it just wasn't working out in the neighborhood.
00:27:03
I felt like the dogs weren't able to just
get out and just enjoy themselves, like they
00:27:10
can here. Even though I had a big lot there, I liked
the idea of them just being able to just run,
00:27:16
especially in the woods. I'll take you to their swimming hole. Come here, Dutch.
00:27:21
Kemne. Phoebe Judge: So, these dogs spend their summer
swimming? Scott Foster: Yes, exactly.
00:27:26
Yeah. Almost daily. Phoebe Judge: Are you still training with
Talon as though — just to keep him sharp?
00:27:33
Scott Foster: I do, because it's something
he did enjoy for so many years, and it doesn't
00:27:36
hurt anything. So, if it can keep his mind occupied or make
him feel like he's still serving a purpose,
00:27:42
it's well worth it. And daily, again, daily I let them out. They spend more time out of the kennel than
they do in.
00:27:48
And the woods. They both just absolutely love being in the
woods. Maybe, to Talon, it hearkens back to his patrol
days, you know, being in the woods.
00:27:55
[To Talon] Kemne. Phoebe Judge: Their kennels are now on opposite
sides of the house.
00:28:01
Vader stays in a kennel that's close to Scott's
police car so that Talon never has to see
00:28:07
Vader going to work. And Talon and Dutch live in the backyard,
in a kennel next to the woods, with a direct
00:28:14
view of the pool. I think we talked last time about maybe the
potential that one day Talon and Vader could
00:28:22
meet and be pals. How is that going? Scott Foster: I wish that could be the happy
ending.
00:28:29
I wish that I could follow up with that story
and say they're best friends now, and Talon's
00:28:35
taking Vader under his wing and trying to
teach him. But, that's not the case. I still know that there's going to be a fight
if I put them together.
00:28:43
It would only be self-serving to me. I don't think it would be any good for them.
00:28:46
So I just try to resist even attempting it. [Twangy, melancholy guitar music.] Robbie Tolan: When I was in the ambulance,
I was telling the EMTs.
00:29:06
I was like, "What about my parents? Where are my parents? I need my parents." They just kept pushing me down, cutting my
shirt open, putting the oxygen mask on me,
00:29:16
and then, obviously, they put me out. But, when I came to, I remember someone squeezing
my hand.
00:29:22
I kind of opened my eyes a little bit, and
I saw there was my parents. And I was so drugged up, I couldn't keep my
eyes open.
00:29:31
And I remember my mom saying, "Do you remember
what happened?" And I shook my head yes.
00:29:37
And she said, "Everything?" And I shook my head yes. Reporter: The way Robbie Tolan's family describes
it, he and his cousin were just walking up
00:29:44
to their home after a late-night meal. So, why is Tolan now hospitalized, a police
officer's bullet lodged in his liver?
00:29:52
It's a question sparking allegations of racism
in this mostly white Houston suburb of Bellaire.
00:29:58
Phoebe Judge: In December of 2008, 23-year-old
Robbie Tolan was shot in the chest at close
00:30:03
range by a white police officer. Robbie Tolan is African American. The shooting took place in Robbie's own driveway,
in front of his parents.
00:30:13
We went to Texas to interview the Tolan family,
and the episode about them is called "695BGK."
00:30:21
Here's a part of it. Bobby Tolan: My wife has fought every step
of the way. Every time we got turned down, she went to
the next step.
00:30:28
That step got turned down. We went to the next step. I feel that they
figured that, "We've got some Black people
00:30:36
here. They're going to go away. He's been proven not guilty. It's going to die down."
00:30:42
But, they don't know my wife. Phoebe Judge: In October of 2013, they appealed
again, this time to the U.S. Supreme Court.
00:30:49
About 10,000 petitions are submitted to the
Supreme Court every year. They only take on about 80, and they took
the Tolans' case.
00:30:58
In May of 2014, all nine justices agreed unanimously
— which is remarkable in its own right — that
00:31:05
the Fifth Circuit was wrong to dismiss the
Tolans' case. It's called an error correction.
00:31:11
Basically, the justices criticized the Fifth
Circuit for only considering Sergeant Cotton's
00:31:17
version of events, and not what Robbie and
Marian say happened. So, they will get to tell their story to a
jury.
00:31:25
Phoebe Judge: That was where we left off. In September of 2015, the Tolan family did
go back to court.
00:31:33
Here is Robbie's mother, Marian Tolan, with
the update. Marian Tolan: We were scheduled to go to trial
on September the 15th, and on the 11th, at
00:31:51
a pre-trial hearing, the judge dismissed our
claim against the city. And then, on Sunday, we filed a motion to
have her recuse herself, which made her more
00:31:56
angry. So, on that Monday, the 14th of September,
she dismissed our expert witnesses.
00:31:58
She would not allow Ken Griffey Junior to
give a testimony. She dismissed all our expert witnesses.
00:32:04
But she didn't dismiss the city's, the officer's
expert witnesses. Can you imagine?
00:32:22
Phoebe Judge: What did you decide to do? Marian Tolan: Well, I wanted to fight. Robbie couldn't take it anymore.
00:32:31
He basically had a breakdown, and he couldn't
— he said, "It's already been seven years,
00:32:41
and we're not going to get justice." And he settled. Phoebe Judge: The family accepted a settlement
of $110,000 from the city of Bellaire.
00:32:59
Marian Tolan: With his emotional state so
fragile by then, he had just taken all he
00:33:07
could take. Phoebe Judge: So you could've made the choice
to go to a jury, but you felt because they
00:33:12
had taken many of the witnesses off the table,
and it would only have been Robbie, and Robbie
00:33:17
was feeling overwhelmed, that you would settle. Marian Tolan: That's right. That's right.
00:33:22
And it was never about the money anyway. It was about fighting for justice. It was about, you know...
00:33:37
So many people who are victims to police brutality
don't have the means to fight, or are even
00:33:42
willing to fight. We were willing — I was willing to fight. But, at the end of the day, Robbie still has
a bullet in his liver.
00:33:50
He still lives with the scars, emotional scars
and physical scars, and we couldn't put him
00:34:00
through that again. Phoebe Judge: How is Robbie now? Marian Tolan: He's still bruised and damaged.
00:34:05
And every time there's another case, and you're
like, "Wow, when is it going to change?
00:34:06
When are things going to get better for our
kids?" [Tearfully.] It may not be in our lifetime, but we're plugging
away.
00:34:23
[Twangy, melancholy guitar music.] Phoebe Judge: When Sergeant Jeffrey Cotton,
the man who shot Robbie Tolan, left the courthouse,
00:34:35
he told reporters, "I'm just glad it's over." So, that's it for our 50th. Thanks very much for listening.
00:34:48
We'll be back with a new story in a couple
of weeks. We want to say thanks to some people who've
helped us tremendously behind the scenes.
00:34:56
Thanks to Eric Mennel: he was with us when
he launched this thing, and he's missed.
00:35:00
And to Carol Jackson, Russ Henry, Freddy Jenkins,
Becky Martinez, and David Brower.
00:35:06
And, thanks to everyone at Radiotopia, especially
Kerri Hoffman, Roman Mars, Kathleen Unwin,
00:35:12
and Julie Shapiro. As always, Criminal is produced by Lauren
Spohrer and me. Audio mix by Rob Byers.
00:35:20
Alice Wilder is our intern. And Julienne Alexander makes original illustrations
for each episode of Criminal.
00:35:27
You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. Criminal is recorded in the studios of North
Carolina Public Radio, WUNC.
00:35:34
We're a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX,
a collective of the best podcasts around.
00:35:41
Shows like The Memory Palace, hosted by Nate
DiMeo. The Memory Palace is a show about history,
but it's so much more than that.
00:35:49
In these tiny, perfect little episodes, Nate
holds forgotten aspects of American life up
00:35:53
to the light. They're fascinating and somehow full of emotion
in unexpected ways.
00:35:59
Go listen. Radiotopia from PRX is supported by the Knight
Foundation and Mailchimp, celebrating creativity,
00:36:06
chaos, and teamwork. And thanks to Adzerk for providing their ad-serving
platform to Radiotopia.
00:36:13
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Jingle: Radiotopia. From PRX.