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had you ever thought of yourself before as a a brave person a great someone who took control of situations or was this
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what you did did that surprise you well I I'm a New Year's baby which means I'm a Capricorn and you know Capricorns
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um are those those goats that climb the hill and they don't look to take charge but if the situation needs someone to
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take charge they do it that they're not looking for it but if nobody else is doing it they just do it
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[Music] you be judged this is Criminal [Music] in 1977 Carmela alifi and her then
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husband bear bought a big old house in Atlanta Georgia Carmella describes it as a Charleston
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dog walk house and in a Charleston house every room opens into a long Central hallway you can open the front door and
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see all the way into the backyard she and bear paid just over thirty two thousand dollars for it and the plan was
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that they'd live on one side and rent out the other side this wasn't a part of Atlanta known as
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Little Five Points Little Five Points was a really artsy area and uh this is like 78 there was like Organic
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restaurants which you know back then there just weren't many of those kinds of places there was the shoe store that
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had Birkenstocks like that was their main thing the Birkenstock store and there was a Little Five Points Pub where
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the Indigo Girls would play I was about 21 years old and had just moved to Atlanta had probably been there
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maybe about six months Kathleen rabinovitz was renting the other side of Carmela's house and we were working uh
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in the house in the apartment and we were actually I was in July actually it was really hot and we were steaming
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wallpaper off the walls it was just layers and layers of wallpaper that we were scraping off and there was about
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six of us there we've been at it all day just steaming wallpaper off with the walls they decided to take a break
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Carmella was watering her plants in the front yard her friend Steve was keeping her company and we noticed that
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couple of police cars go by and then a police van goes by and we're kind of eyeing each other like
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what what the heck is going on here and then motorcycle cops go by more police cars and I said Steve this is weird
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maybe something's going on I was actually sitting in the living room by myself listening to some music I
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had on a headset and I just saw this stranger walk into the living room and I kind of thought where did he come from
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he turned around and looked at me and he held a gun up to his mouth as to say and I just kind of went numb at that
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point and he turned around and walked out of the living room back towards uh the other rooms in the back of the house
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and all I could think of was if I can just get out of here because I'm so close to the front door I'll just you
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know take off running Kathleen tiptoed toward the front door and she was almost there when at the
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last minute she glanced over her shoulder the man with a gun was standing at the
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other end of the hallway staring at her and there was a second man standing beside him
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they didn't say a word just stared and motioned for her to come back inside the house
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and of course I did at that point I just was you know if my knees could have uh made a sound they were just like
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knocking I was just so frightened she walked toward the men and when she got to the back of the house into the
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kitchen she found her friends sitting silently around the kitchen table except for Carmela and Steve they were
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still in the front yard Steve and I not knowing what's going on start to go in and I you know I Steve
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didn't come in for a few minutes I walked in first without him and there is bare standing with these two guys that I
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don't know and bear says Carmella these two guys are running from the police they're going to stay here until dark
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and then I'm going to take them away was he calm well he but said it very calmly now you've
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got to get a little glimpse into who bear is he was a an Army Ranger he had done tours in Vietnam
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you know if there was going to be a fight you want him on your side so this is this is who is sitting there
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saying Carmella very calmly this is what's happening you know just they're going to be here until dark and
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I'm going to take them away what do the men look like um one of them was really tall
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um the other one you may not know who I'm gonna reference here but uh did you ever see Young Frankenstein the movie
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um well there's a character in it that is played by the actor Marty Feldman who is a short guy with bug eyes and
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the shorter guide looked a lot like Marty Feldman both of them looked kind of wired like
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they'd been going for a while they look kind of tense and wired but when I saw them I I like I
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I I just you never know what your reaction is going to be okay my reaction was I look at them and I go
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oh hell no you are not staying in my house get the hell out of my house right to this minute and I start pushing them
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I remember Carmela's husband saying he was trying to tell her you know to be quiet and that they had a gun but he
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couldn't get a word in edgewise it was like she didn't want any part of it she wanted him out of her house and that was
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it I am yelling the whole time you get out of my house right this minute do you know that there are police cars
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motorcycle cops and fans they're right outside and if you don't get out right now I'm going to tell them that you're
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in here and there's an undercurrent of other voices saying things well I'm doing this and
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I'm not really paying them much mine but the other voices are like bear going Carmella shut up they have guns Carmella
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shut up Carmella get calm get calm be calm Carmel quit talking but I'm not listening to any of that I'm just
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yelling for them to get the hell out of my house right this minute she had one of them almost out the back
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door he kind of freaked and that's when he put the gun in her face and said that
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if you know they're gonna die we're all going to die at that point you know I just kind of lost it in myself and
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another young lady just started you know crying I was like that's it and of course Carmella's eyes got biggest
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quarters and she just stopped and backed off and was like oh okay I just didn't notice the guns before I
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was so set on I just felt like intrusion it was such a Invasion for someone to be in my house I mean this is
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the first house I ever owned and what what were they doing in there I didn't invite them into my house it was really
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really um you would think I'd be scared I'd be vulnerable all these other things but I
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was just really mad I was so mad and I couldn't see straight until he actually pulled the gun to my head
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should I take a breath and then I look around Kathy is crying at the kitchen table
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and I think what am I going to do and I look up and I said it's really weird that I said this but
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you know just trying to make things better I said um do you like some iced tea or Baby Ruth
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I mean I just people still Buy Baby Ruth I've never heard anyone says not candy bar named for a long time
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well it was like I just wanted to make it better and so um I um are from something to drink and eat
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and did they take you up on it not at that moment no and um at that time Steve has finally walked in
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from outside walks to the back of the house walks into the kitchen and Cece's two guys now whether he saw
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the gun or not I don't really know but the gun was definitely out at that time he looks up and uh
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he said it just kind of evaluates the situation and he he later said he thought that we
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must know these guys and that it did not look safe and he was going to leave so he
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says uh come on Susie we're going home and we're all looking at him like what and he said uh we're going home right
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now and the guy said uh the big guy he says Ah pulls the gun on him you're not going anywhere
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foreign [Music] you realized you were stuck with these guys now for a while what what did you
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all do well Steve and Bear kind of went into the living room with the two guys which we could see them but
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we weren't with them and bear said well we'll come in here and and let's uh drink a beer how about
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let's have a beer I think somebody up there might have even had a joint and bear said let's just you know let's
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drink a beer and just calm down for a minute and relax bear is always very quiet he's very what
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I called Southern he doesn't really talk that much and you know it's just a was just a good old
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guy but I really uh realize that he has a you know has a way about him that he can get along with anyone
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but I would have never ever would have guessed that he would have been able to sit there and
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you know actually got them to trust him one at a time the guys went into the bathroom and took a shower and changed
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clothes which was really weird there they are taking Bears clothes and putting them on
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you know getting a fresh shirt and as they're sitting around the the four guys um the tall guy
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looks at them looks at bear and Steve and he is looking for a little understanding
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and he says so don't you guys know any Outlaws and Steve um who did have a good sense of humor
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although I don't know how he found it at that moment he said the only Outlaws I know are Willie Nelson and Waylon
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Jennings well you know I you may not know or you may know Willie Nelson and willing Jennings had a band called The
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Outlaws and so that was the best they could do to relate to these Outlaws were you in
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the kitchen or were you in other rooms thinking to yourself how are we going to escape how are we going to get out of
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here well we are sitting there man the girls are sitting in the uh kitchen I I was just so mortified and
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so scared I just sat there I and we were just very quiet we didn't we did what Steve told us to do just to be calm and
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you know not make any you know uh noise or give them any ideas to get excited or the fact that we're
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you know trying to leave or getting up trying to get water or anything we just kind of just sat there and we're totally
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silent and we could hear Carmela's husband in the living room talking to them and they seem to be having you know
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a calm conversation so we just kind of sat there and just waited did anyone have to go to the bathroom
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no I don't think so we we were just all like shocked so with the two men kind of peek
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their head in the kitchen every once in a while and just make sure that you were
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still sitting there at the table and then return to the living room with bear well um where we were situated you could
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actually where they were sitting in the living room they could see straight back
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to the kitchen where we were were at the table so they could see us at all times
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and I'm thinking we could totally go out the back door and run out the back door
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but then that might really make them angry and maybe they would kill bear and Steve if we did that and so that kind of
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kept us in line how long were they there hours they were there for hours they were waiting for it to get dark
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because I mean obviously all those policemen were looking for them they were who they were after
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they were in the neighborhood and and later on I I will tell you that we found out that they had beaten up a policeman
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they had taken his gun and you know when it's that situation the police really really want to capture them I
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mean so how did they end up leaving what did they say well um bear said uh I think it's time for us to go
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and it's it's dark enough and I think we should go ahead and go and um the guy said
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uh if you call the police uh we'll kill him we'll kill bear so don't make any phone calls until he's
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back so they take off they get in the Ford van and they and they leave [Music] so I call my brother in Claxton
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and so I'm a dawn yeah it's done um we've been held hostage by Escape convicts for the last several
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hours and um they've taken bear and he's going to drop them off somewhere and they told me
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if I call the police they'll kill him and I don't really know what to do what do you think I should do and God says
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don't call Mom and Dad they are at a dance at the Elks club and there's nothing that they could do and you would
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you'd hate to ruin their night I said okay I won't call them and uh I said well what about Uncle John he goes yeah
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call Uncle John well my uncle John I don't know if you've noticed but the name Carmela
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alifi is very Italian in fact it's Sicilian and um we always kind of teased about Uncle
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John that um because I mean he was involved in so many different businesses which is kind
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of um we always kind of wondered exactly what all he did and um he he definitely had that tough guy
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Sicilian look like he could kill you with a glance and uh you know you always felt like he
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could take care of anything so I called Uncle John and I tell him what's going on he said I'll come over
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so Uncle John is coming and we're I'm sitting there sketching because I felt like the police are going to want to
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know what this guy looked like and you know sketching without looking at someone was not really my forte but I
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was trying to capture some little look of the two men and I'm drawing and the phone rings
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it's my parents my dad says Don just called us and told us what happened and I'm just thinking Don of course he did
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and after I talked to them I decided I was going to call the police anyway an officer came immediately and everyone
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explained what had happened and then would the officer still there they saw a bear's car pull up
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Kathleen remembers that they were so terrified the men might have come back with bear that they made the police
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officer hide behind a door but bear walked back in alone safe he had dropped them off
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in Norcross um which is the Northern Atlanta and had dropped them off at a Dairy
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Queen and he left the two men we'd later find out had gone into the Dairy Queen they held up the Dairy Queen
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they took the manager and his girlfriend and they took them somewhere in south Georgia where they robbed a bank
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their names were James Edwin Wilkes Jr and Murphy staffens and they'd escaped from prison in Wayne County
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they've been escorted to a dentist outside of the prison facility as the dentist told the Atlanta Journal
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Constitution he had one of the inmates in the chair and had pulled his tooth halfway out when another inmate came in
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and put a gun in his face the one I was working on the dentist said we'll be in some pain
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they were eventually caught after Bloodhounds found their Trail in North Florida
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they've been running and holding people hostage for six days by the time they were caught according
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to the sheriff they've been pretty well worked over by mosquitoes and yellow flies
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luckily they weren't killers and the we had heard that they had more on a path of Badness and
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um they had also been up all night and so they were sleep deprived and they were carrying guns
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and I'll tell you one thing that really unnerved me in a weird way it unnerved me almost as
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much as the day that this happened it was about three weeks later I was changing in the linen on the bed
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and I felt something a little odd and I slipped my hand between the mattress and the box springs
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and I pull out a gun I have been sleeping on top of this gun this loaded gun and so I called the
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police and I tell them that this gun is there oh my God like 20 cups pull up in front
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of the house and they're all running in just to get this gone and that was really
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really crazy [Music] does it feel like the world is more dangerous now than it was then
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you know yes yes I it does and it does feel like a less safe world but but there's so much more
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communication we hear about so much more um don't you think yeah I mean it sounds
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even though these men had guns this sounds like a story that you wouldn't hear about today
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yeah all sharing a joint and just waiting till the sun goes down um you know you've got you've got
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um someone who you know bear bear had dealt with danger and um I think um I've been in the military had really you
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know been in situations where people tell Tall Tales um you know around a pit that they could
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jump into when the next bomb goes off um I think he was well suited for the task
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of um of dealing with people in a dangerous situation bear whose name was actually Frederick
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Howard passed away in 2011. how often have you told this story I have told this story many times and sat
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around with friends on the beach in a circle and this is one of my favorite things you just say all right let's
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everybody tell their best story and isn't that the most entertaining thing to to sit around with friends
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around a table or on the beach and to tell stories real stories of that have happened and to hear people's stories I
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I think that it just doesn't get any better than that [Music] foreign called for jury duty they never want me
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because they always ask is there anyone here that has been victim to a crime and
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I always have to say well you know the only thing I can think of is I was held hostage by Escape convicts and they
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never want me so [Music] criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me media Wilson is our senior producer
00:23:53
Teresa katsurilis is our assistant producer audiomix by Rob Byers special thanks to Carmella's daughter Jenna
00:24:00
Alstead Who convinced her mother to speak with us Julian Alexander makes original
00:24:06
illustrations for each episode of Criminal you can see them at this iscriminal.com and find us on Facebook
00:24:13
and Twitter at criminal show criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina public radio
00:24:20
wunc we're a proud member of radiotopia from PRX a collection of the best podcasts around
00:24:27
I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal thank you [Music] foreign [Music]