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The "It" Girl | Criminal Podcast

January 11, 2023 / 27:25

This episode covers the life of Evelyn Nesbitt, her modeling career, and her relationships with Stanford White and Harry Thaw. It discusses the societal context of the late 1800s, including the Comstock Act and the emergence of celebrity culture.

Evelyn Nesbitt, born in 1884, became famous for her beauty and was discovered as a model in Philadelphia. Her mother, seeking financial stability after her husband's death, supported Evelyn's modeling career, leading to her rise in New York City.

Stanford White, a prominent architect, became infatuated with Evelyn and began a complex relationship with her when she was just 16. The episode details their meetings, including a troubling incident at his apartment that changed Evelyn's life.

Harry Thaw, a wealthy but unstable man, also became obsessed with Evelyn and their relationship turned abusive. The episode highlights the dynamics of their interactions and the impact of their troubled pasts.

Ultimately, the episode reveals the tragic consequences of Evelyn's relationships and the societal pressures of the time, culminating in her marriage to Thaw and the ensuing turmoil.

TLDR

Evelyn Nesbitt's life, modeling career, and abusive relationships with Stanford White and Harry Thaw are examined in this episode.

Episode

27:25
00:00:00
this episode contains descriptions of sexual violence and may not be appropriate for everyone please use
00:00:07
discretion the only thing worse than modeling or it may be equivalent to would have been
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acting going on the stage as a as a disreputable kind of morally questionable occupation and of course
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her mother allowed her to do both Evelyn Nesbitt has one of the most famous faces
00:00:25
in the world but these days not many of us remember her name you know this is the the age where a glimpse of stalking
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was shocking and as her mother said my daughter never modeled in the altogether in the late 1800s an organization called
00:00:41
the New York Society for the suppression of Vice was in full swing it was founded
00:00:47
by a man named Anthony Comstock and Anthony Comstock was upset about sex the Civil War had just ended and
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soldiers had gotten their hands on so much pornography people were finding it littered all over the ground
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Comstock wanted to criminalize erotic pictures along with erotic fiction songs depictions of women on sheet music and
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playing cards anything quote calculated to carry impure ideas and a lot of people agreed with him in
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1873 Congress passed the Comstock act prohibiting the transportation of obscene materials through the mail
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including information about contraception but people still wanted to look at pictures of naked women there
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was a burgeoning underground industry of uh I guess if you want to call pornography and art pictures were
00:01:44
included in that art studies and the way that of course artists fine artists got
00:01:49
around that was by saying that these were mythical figures like psyche or Aphrodite so that you
00:01:55
would use they would turn to mythology as a way of justifying having women in these sort of antique you know
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diaphanous robes and gowns and things and uh between that and then the kind of costumes that chorus girls wore also
00:02:10
which were considered shocking at the time and here is Evelyn she's inhabiting both of these worlds at the
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same time and she's just barely 16. I mean everything about her life from the moment that she was discovered as a
00:02:24
model her life was unusual Evelyn Nesbitt was born on Christmas day in 1884. in a small Pennsylvania town
00:02:32
outside of Pittsburgh the local paper reported she was the most beautiful baby ever born in the
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county we're hearing about her from Paulie uriburu professor of English and film at
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Hofstra Evelyn's father died unexpectedly leaving Mrs Nesbitt with two small children and no idea what to do it was
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the classic it was like something out of a Charles Dickens novel where they were
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the sheriff came and put the eviction notice on the house and all of that and the mother had no idea what how to deal
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with the finances and so for a while they went from family member to family member and then eventually I think a
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year later her mother because she knew housekeeping decided she would try to run a boarding house
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um for a time the boarding house wasn't doing well because Evelyn was so beautiful her
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mother made her go door to door to try to collect rent from the men living there
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then Mrs Nesbitt tried to make money as a seamstress moving her children to Philadelphia where she hoped someone
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would hire her in Philadelphia Evelyn was discovered it sounds like the typical sort of Hollywood scenario but
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Evelyn was discovered on the street actually by a woman artist who thought that she was extraordinarily beautiful
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and wanted to use her as a model for painting she was a a fine artist and Evelyn's mother agreed to let her pose
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and then one after another other artists in the community there started to hear about this model and then she that was
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the start of her modeling career soon after the family moved to New York where Evelyn modeled for artists and
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appeared in ads for toothpaste face creams fur coats and Whitman samplers she was so sought after that she was
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paid twice what other models made her mother was happy to let her do it because they needed the money
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she came to New York just when the technology makes it possible for them to now reproduce photographs because prior
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to that women's ads for example in the ladies magazines they were illustrations but once
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Evelyn's picture gets reproduced that's when things changed and you know her face became recognizable as the the it
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girl she's the first it girl before people knew what it was Evelyn was cast in the most popular play
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on Broadway the floradora about young women in the South Pacific making perfume and being pursued by British
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aristocrats the show's most famous song was called tell me pretty Maiden [Music]
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like you do one of the most influential and glamorous architects in New York City
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went to see the show over and over some say he went 40 times because he was obsessed with the new girl
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his name was Stanford white Sanford white was uh this sort of this Dynamo and he was somebody who had a vision for
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New York and he wanted to transform it I mean he was sort of an amazing figure he
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managed to have a one foot in the world of the 400 and Mrs Astor and the robber barons and the extremely wealthy whereas
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at the same time he was a Denizen of Broadway and friend of the artist in the Bohemians he designed mansions for the
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Vanderbilts the Tiffany's he designed the original Madison Square Garden with a giant naked statue of the Goddess
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Diana on the roof and he was famous for coming up with these wild over-the-top events filling the old Metropolitan
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Opera House with 15 000 white roses turning a restaurant into the court of Versailles
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for the Centennial of George Washington's inauguration he built an enormous ornate Arch the arch was so
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popular that New Yorkers raised the money to keep it around and it's there in Washington Square Park today
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he had red hair and a big red mustache newspapers described him as masterful and intense
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he had a lot of power in New York and his wife was from an important and Wealthy family too he was just sort of
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uh this Whirlwind figure who um who had uh at the same time an incredible appetite for beauty and
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beautiful objects which is where I think Evelyn fits him it was the beginning of a new world of
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celebrity money gossip Mark Twain called it the Gilded Age glittering and Beautiful on the surface and absolutely
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rotten underneath I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal seeing Evelyn perform night after night
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Stanford white arranged to meet her he managed to get one of his chorus girlfriends who befriended Evelyn to
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come to bring her to a luncheon at one of his apartments around the city that he kept for these purposes he called his
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snuggeries this particular Snuggery was a non-descript building on West 24th Street above a toy shop owned by FAO
00:08:10
Schwartz when Evelyn and her friend got out of the cab she wanted to go in and look at
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the mechanical toys but her friend who'd been there before pulled her through a narrow door that opened automatically
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Evelyn later wrote the sudden plunge from that dingy Street entrance into this room was breathtaking the
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predominating color was a wonderful red heavy red velvet curtains shut out all the daylight there was a table set for
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four she liked the apartment but she did not like Stanford white she found him quote
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appalling and terribly old she was 16. he was 48. they were having this feast and he says I want to show
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you this room that I have upstairs and they went up a set of stairs and there in this room with the high ceiling was
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this beautiful red velvet swing that was attached to the ceiling and also attached to the ceiling was a Japanese
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paper parasol and he said to Evelyn you want do you want to ride on the swing and he put her on the swing and pushed
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her and encouraged her to go as high as she could to try to kick through the parasol and that was one of the
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afternoon's entertainment was to ride on the swing the famous red velvet swing after that first meeting Stanford white
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decided that everything about Evelyn was perfect except for one thing her teeth they were good but not as good as he
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wanted them to be he sent her to a dentist to as he said satisfy a purely aesthetic urge and he paid the bill he
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paid for a lot of things he began this sort of uh program of patronage of her she became his quote
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Protege he moved her and her mother into a beautiful apartment that he decorated
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specifically for her paying for her brother to go to school he sent her brother to Military Academy he visited
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Evelyn and her mother many mornings with gifts often books he wanted Evelyn to read he arranged for her to take piano
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lessons he made appointments for her to model for his friends real artists he said not the hacks she'd been posing for
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and he introduced her to an artist named Charles Dana Gibson she became one of Gibson's favorite models and the Gibson
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Girl today still you know when they had that series of stamps that came out about the century a while ago sure
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enough Evelyn's picture was the Gibson Girl stamp that they put out so it's such a it's such an iconic image of that
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Gilded Age and she's she is it what was a Gibson girl uh Gibson girl was really um Charles Dana Gibson took the idea of
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the new woman which was sort of threatening to the Old Guard but his idea of the American Girl if you want to
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use that term was she was tall and statuesque and she was seductive but without being it's actually realized and
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she was usually depicted in his illustrations as an heiress as being healthy as being participating in the
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newest trends whether it's riding a bicycle or playing tennis or Golf and they didn't need men necessarily they it
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was it was really kind of the ideal image of the new woman and that's what he created one of
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Gibson's most famous drawings of Evelyn Nesbitt is called the Eternal question it's a profile image and in it her hair
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is piled up on her head but also there are some curls that fall over her shoulder and it looks like a question
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mark and Freud famously says the Eternal question is what does a woman want and Gibson played on that idea what is this
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what is this creature what is this new woman how are we supposed to respond to her what does she represent and Evelyn
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is the Gibson Girl She is the Eternal question what does a woman want and and it's brilliant because you know in that
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period a girl wore her hair down in curls and then when she was 16 she lost the short skirts and wore long dresses
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and her hair then was put up to indicate that she was a woman now and what's brilliant about the Eternal question is
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that you have it both ways she's got her hair up and she's got it down so it's some some interesting transitional
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figure between the old and the new between the old and the young actually Stanford white continued to be a father
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figure to Evelyn and he became very close with her mother winning her trust completely he talked to Mrs Nesbitt
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about her friends and family back in Pennsylvania he said it was important not to lose touch and encouraged her to
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go home for a visit and her mother was didn't want to leave Evelyn by herself in the city at this point Evelyn is now
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modeling in the daytime and performing on Broadway at night and he says don't worry I'll take care of her and and her
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mother left her in the care of of white and he told Deb when he was going to be having a party at the Madison Square
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Garden Tower and that she should come when she arrived there was no one else there he said isn't it too bad all the
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others have turned us down he told her that they'd have their own party he gave her a gift a toy Bank he'd
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bought in London and a glass of champagne and then another and another up until this point he'd kept the close
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eye on her drinking never wanting her to have more than one glass but this night was different
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he took her up a staircase she'd never noticed before at the top a small Studio decorated with tapestries and mirrors
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and antiques he opened the tapestries to reveal an even smaller secret room with a four
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poster canopy bed surrounded by mirrors all around the top of the bed were light
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bulbs that changed colors she says uh though I like to use her description she says she went into the room of Virgin
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and she did not come out one uh and that was a night that um she woke up and she was basically nude
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next to a naked Stanford white and he says you're mine now and you're my kittens and it's awful
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she had no memory of what had happened when she woke up and saw her reflection in the mirrors she screamed
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before 1895 to prosecute someone for rape you had to prove a woman fought back after 1895 sex with anyone under 18
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carried a minimum sentence of 10 years Stanford white told Evelyn that nothing unusual had happened that everyone did
00:15:07
it and that quote a girl must never talk he'd remind her of this sing simply don't talk Evelyn
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I mean you have to try to remember that she's 16 when she meets white she had been living after her father died she
00:15:25
was living in extreme poverty and living from hand to mouth and suddenly she's with one of the most dynamic Attractive
00:15:32
people in New York you know white was somebody that men and women found you know sort of irresistible in terms of
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his personality in terms of his charm the way she describes it in her letter she said it was like the force of an
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earthquake you know it was a seismic force that he had and uh and as I said everybody
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anybody who knew white um whether it was as the artist or as the entrepreneur or as the art
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connoisseur he was just this magnetic figure and so probably in her naivete as a 16 year old she thought oh he's he's
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gonna maybe leave his wife for me which he never intended to do so yeah it was a very um uneven
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relationship to say the least foreign [Music] for Evelyn's 17th birthday Stanford
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white filled his Madison Square Garden apartment with flowers covering every inch of the place and he covered the
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flower petals with confectioner's sugar to make them look like they've been dusted by snow
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and he was just getting started her birthday gifts included two diamond solitaire rings a large Pearl on a
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platinum chain a set of white fox Furs and a ruby and diamond ring she called him Stanley Claus
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she was thrilled to be the center of his attention he would pinch her shoulders and say he
00:17:09
was feeling for her wings neither of them had any idea they were being watched Evelyn had been cast in a musical called
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The Wild Rose and a strange man attended dozens of performances he always sat in
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the front row following almost exactly in the footsteps of Stanford white the strange
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man asked one of the girls in the play to bring Evelyn to lunch so he could meet her
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Evelyn agreed the man called himself Mr Monroe he met her he he got down and grabbed the Hem of her dress and kissed
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it and he said do you know you're the most beautiful girl in New York and she was actually horrified
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about a week later at a pre-show dinner Evelyn ran into Mr Monroe again they were seated next to one another which
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was not a coincidence this time very theatrically the man told her that his name was not Mr Monroe he
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revealed his real identity the heir to a 40 million dollar Fortune Harry thaw Harry was this incredibly spoiled and
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apparently very unstable young man who then uh wanted to become sort of uh you know the
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toast of the town and came from Pittsburgh to New York and because he was so odd and because he
00:18:39
was let's face it he was from Pittsburgh okay I didn't want to catch this person
00:18:42
on Pittsburgh but the New York crowd considered him just a sort of insane sort of Outsider who did things like
00:18:51
ride a horse up the steps into the Union club and used to show off by lighting his cigars with hundred dollar bills and
00:18:57
things like this so he was um he had been kicked out of Harvard he'd been kicked out of law school it didn't
00:19:05
actually matter he didn't need to work his mother gave him a monthly allowance of eighty thousand dollars which would
00:19:11
be about two million dollars a month today he spent his time traveling around the
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world getting into fights and asking his mother to bail him out like Stanford white Harry thaw was
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obsessed with young and beautiful Broadway actresses and specifically he was obsessed with their virginity he
00:19:32
would actually run ads and have young girls come to his apartment with the idea that he was
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going to be a dramatic coach and he would instead scald them in bathtubs and handcuff them and beat them with a dog
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Whip and tell them that they were bad he believed he was saving them in some way
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his mother spent tens of thousands of dollars paying them not to press charges Evelyn didn't know about any of this but
00:20:02
she knew she was not interested when Harry thaw sent two dozen pairs of silk stockings to her house she sent
00:20:09
them back he sent a Steinway grand piano she sent that back too he proposed she declined
00:20:17
she was in love with Stanford white she believed they were going to be together forever and as she saw that he was
00:20:25
paying attention to other chorus girls as well she didn't like that and I think she started to
00:20:32
um it's she turned 17 she became maybe somewhat wiser or somewhat aware that she needed to do something and so that's
00:20:41
when she started a relationship with John Barrymore I think to make white jealous in the
00:20:48
hopes that he would leave his wife somehow Mrs Nesbitt had no problem with Evelyn spending many evenings with
00:20:55
Stanford white but when she started spending time with someone age appropriate she panicked and sent Evelyn
00:21:01
to boarding school she enrolled at the DeMille School run by Cecil B demille's mother
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Stanford white paid her tuition while she was at school she needed an emergency appendectomy
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Evelyn's mother couldn't reach Stanford white so she contacted that other wealthy middle-aged man hovering around
00:21:23
her teenage daughter Harry thaw he sent one of the finest doctors in New York to operate on Evelyn and then
00:21:31
offered to pay for recuperative trip to Europe for Evelyn and her mother and he would go along too
00:21:39
early in the trip Evelyn and her mother were fighting so badly mostly about her mother spending Evelyn's money on
00:21:47
clothes for herself that her mother insisted on going back to America and so Harry and Evelyn were alone they were in
00:21:55
Paris and and here was this guy who was kind of weird and uh but he was constantly professing his love for her
00:22:04
and how beautiful she was and then One Night in Paris he he sort of cornered her in her room and said
00:22:12
tell me about Stanford way tell me what he did to you I know he did something to
00:22:16
you and she told him and he broke down crying and hysterical and saying oh my God that's terrible terrible he began to
00:22:25
cry and pressed her for more details and they stayed up all night talking Evelyn was moved by his reaction
00:22:33
they continued to travel together and Harry would bring up Stanford white constantly when they visited the
00:22:40
birthplace of Joan of Arc he wrote in the guest book she would not have been a virgin if Stanford White had been around
00:22:47
they moved on to Germany where Harriet rented an old Gothic Castle secluded up a steep Mountain
00:22:55
there were two servants in the castle and one night Harry thaw sent them both away
00:23:00
Evelyn woke up to find him standing beside her bed naked with a whip he attacked her he tore a nightgown off
00:23:09
and hit her and said things about Penance for her sinful Behavior he raped her the next day he behaved as if nothing
00:23:19
had happened Evelyn asked to see a doctor she was badly injured and still recovering from the appendectomy
00:23:28
he took her to a doctor who ignored the bruises and marks all over her body she was completely trapped
00:23:37
eventually they went back to Paris where she ran into one of Stanford White's friends an older woman who got Evelyn
00:23:44
out of there back home in New York she realized that she was completely on her own
00:23:51
her mother wouldn't speak to her Stanford white was distracted she worried that at 17 she was perhaps
00:23:59
already too old to keep his attention Harry thaw sent an entire florist shop of flowers to apologize
00:24:08
when she refused to see him he sent others to apologize on his behalf he wrote her letters promising that if
00:24:16
she'd only marry him things would be better he said he would be a different person he said he would be like a monk
00:24:23
this went on for two years on April 5th 1905 they were married she wore black and
00:24:35
for a brief time it seemed like maybe this was going to be okay and then of course he starts coming into her room at
00:24:43
night and saying tell me again what Stanford white did to you tell me just and she realized that part of the reason
00:24:49
why he married her was because he wanted to relive this experience over and over
00:24:54
again about white he was so obsessed with him Harry thaw began to carry a gun in our next episode
00:25:08
the story it was very clear that none of the people in the in the in the center of
00:25:14
this tragedy neither Evelyn nor white nor thaw was exactly what they had been initially depicted as
00:25:21
criminalists produced by Lauren Spore Nadia Wilson and me audio mix by Rob Byers matild erfilino is our intern
00:25:29
special thanks to Mara Eakin Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal you can see
00:25:37
them at thisiscriminal.com where on Facebook and Twitter at criminal show criminals recorded in the studios of
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00:26:18
about liberalism is the Nuance we got in the van and she was not speaking to us at that point which was kind of good
00:26:27
because when we got gas she didn't scream I just have this weird compulsion to look up and affection I don't know if
00:26:36
you can say this kind of stuff on the radio I'm just fascinated with things that are
00:26:42
what do you wish on your enemies there was nothing I could do or say to change the slow motion crash and I thought I am
00:26:50
standing in the Breath of God go listen special thanks to adzerk for providing their ad serving platform to radiotopia
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I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal foreign [Music]

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This episode stands out for the following:

  • 85
    Most intense
  • 80
    Most shocking
  • 80
    Biggest twist
  • 75
    Most heartbreaking

Episode Highlights

  • Evelyn Nesbitt: The First It Girl
    Evelyn Nesbitt became a sensation in New York, modeling for artists and appearing in ads.
    “She was the first it girl before people knew what it was.”
    @ 04m 54s
    January 11, 2023
  • The Gilded Age's Dark Side
    Mark Twain described the era as glittering on the surface but rotten underneath, exemplified by Evelyn's story.
    “The Gilded Age glittering and beautiful on the surface and absolutely rotten underneath.”
    @ 07m 27s
    January 11, 2023
  • Stanford White's Obsession
    Stanford White, a powerful architect, became infatuated with Evelyn, leading to a complex relationship.
    “He was a magnetic figure in New York.”
    @ 16m 02s
    January 11, 2023
  • Evelyn's Struggle
    Evelyn wakes up to a nightmare and faces the aftermath of abuse.
    @ 23m 00s
    January 11, 2023
  • Harry's Obsession
    Harry Thaw's obsession with Stanford White leads to a troubled marriage.
    @ 24m 44s
    January 11, 2023
  • The Tragic Reality
    None of the central figures in this tragedy were what they seemed.
    @ 25m 11s
    January 11, 2023

Episode Quotes

  • You're mine now and you're my kittens.
    The "It" Girl | Criminal Podcast
  • A girl must never talk.
    The "It" Girl | Criminal Podcast
  • It was like the force of an earthquake.
    The "It" Girl | Criminal Podcast
  • I am standing in the Breath of God.
    The "It" Girl | Criminal Podcast

Key Moments

  • Stanford White's Patronage09:59
  • Paris Encounter22:06
  • Evelyn's Awakening23:00
  • Abuse and Control23:11
  • Flowers and Apologies24:02
  • Marriage24:26
  • Obsession24:54
  • Next Episode25:05

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown