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Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brett. And welcome back. Last
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episode I told you about the murder of Nick Cordova in Gilbert, Arizona. >> [music]
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>> In 2020, Nick and his business partner Dave Sweetman were the only ones at their office when two masked men came in
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and shot Nick execution style in the back of the head. Dave walked away from that attack and sought out $8 million
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in life insurance [music] money with the quote-unquote sign-off from Nick's wife
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Alicia. Except she alleges that someone forged her signature. [music] And it took years of fighting in court
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for her and their kids to see any share of that life insurance money. Alicia told police that Nick was worried
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before his death. Worried about things like Dave taking money from the business. First $30,000, then [music]
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$15,000. Nick thought someone was following him. And he half-heartedly joked to her that maybe Dave was going
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to hire a hitman to collect on the insurance [music] money. But despite sharing all of this with police, they
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seemingly never considered Dave a suspect because they had surveillance video of Nick's murder and it wasn't
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Dave who pulled the trigger. So there was really never much of investigation done into Dave that we [music] could see
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from the redacted files. There's no mention of the prior civil suits that he was involved in where he was made to pay
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out over $10,000 to various people. And there was no mention of Dave's late wife, [music] Laura Sweetman, who died 7
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years before Nick. In fact, she didn't come on our radar even until very late into investigating
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Nick's case. And the first thing you need to know is that the reason we hadn't heard about Laura's undetermined
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[music] death, why almost no one outside of her small circle has, is because people seem to be afraid to talk about
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it. More specifically, people seem afraid of Dave and what might happen if they spoke up.
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I think that's why this story has never been covered in any news sources that we
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could find. But we know from our reporting that Laura Sweetman's family still wants
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answers. Her friends want answers. Her colleagues and former patients want [music] answers. Because for some of
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them and us, something's not adding up. And what I can tell you after [music] deep diving into this case, is that it
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doesn't all point to Dave. This is the story of Laura Sweetman. So let's start with the elephant in the
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room, Dave Sweetman. When we first started poking around trying to ask questions about Laura's
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case, we were surprised by how many people were afraid to talk to us. They were afraid of Dave because the
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prevailing theory among those who knew Laura seemed to be that somehow, some way, Dave was involved in her death.
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They didn't have proof, of course, or they would have gone to police with that. But what they had were decades of
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stories about a man who scared them and who was scaring Laura right before her death.
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So to understand that fear, and before I ever get into how Laura died, I need to
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take you all the way back to the 1980s when Dave and Laura first started dating as teenagers at Fallbrook Union High
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School in California. As a junior in high school, Laura was a future homemaker of America and part of
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the swim team and the yearbook club. And Dave was a varsity football player in the grade above [music] her. This is
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like a real all-American California dream kind of couple. Now after graduating, Laura went on to
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get her master's in biochemistry. She went to med school, completed her residency in pediatric neurology, and
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then worked at Phoenix Children's Hospital. And Dave became a small business owner. Now they got married and
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around 2004 they had the first of their three sons. So from the outside, everything seemed
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picture perfect. But people who knew Laura knew that that was not the case. Laura's close friend, who we're going to
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call Emily, told us that the Sweetman's marriage was always tumultuous. Laura and Emily first met around 2009 when
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Emily started training Laura at the [music] gym. And in those early days, Emily said that Laura had like no
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confidence. She didn't feel comfortable in her own skin. But as Laura and Emily got closer, Laura started talking about
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why. She'd tell Emily about how her husband would belittle her and make her feel small. But the more that they
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trained together and the stronger that Laura got, the more comfortable she started to feel in her own body. And
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that's when she really began to open up. Now Dave actually trained at that same gym with a different trainer. [music]
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And Emily said that her and that trainer would talk about just how different Dave
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and Laura were, how there was just something off about Dave, that he gave off quote the creepy vibes. And Emily
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told us she couldn't understand why Laura was with Dave when he seemed so manipulative. But as they got closer, it
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became clear that when it came to relationships, Laura just didn't know anything else. Now it's important to
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note that while Laura was opening up to Emily, most other people were still completely in the dark. And the woman
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who nannyed for Laura and Dave's children, her name Stacy Miller, she told police that they seemed like a nice
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normal everyday family and she didn't think anything was off about them ever, really. At least until 2006-2007.
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In her statement to police, Stacy says that is when Laura and Dave started sleeping on different floors of the
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house. Neither of them ever spoke about a change and Stacy said, quote, "It wasn't any of my business anyway, so I
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didn't even ask her what went on." End of quote. But by April of 2013, there would be no more keeping their
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relationship issues a secret. Because according to the police file, that is when Laura found out about Dave's big
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secret. I don't know what drove her into doing a Facebook deep dive. Surely she was
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having some suspicions of something, but one click after another after another led her to something that upended her
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life for good. Emily was actually one of the many people Laura opened up to about
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this. And according to her, what Laura discovered is that Dave had quote a whole other [music] life.
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He had been having an affair with a woman who he had a child with that she never knew about. And I'm not talking
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about like a newborn baby, like oh he couldn't figure out how to tell her about this in the last like 9 months.
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This kid was preschool age, a preschool aged son. >> And did this woman know that Dave was
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married? I don't know if the woman he was having an affair with knew. I tried to know. We actually found the woman and
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her and Dave are no longer together, so I was really hopeful she was going to talk to us. But if you remember from
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last episode when I mentioned that there was a woman who Dave is in a child custody battle with to this day in 2026,
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>> Yeah. that is this woman. Woah. >> So she declined to speak with our reporter for either episode because of
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her ongoing legal situation with Dave. >> Right. But to go back to April 2013, it
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is clear from the police file that is when Laura found out about this other family and she was like done done and
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telling everyone as much. To Stacy, she said she quote did not want to stay with
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someone who would cheat [music] and lie. End quote. And according to Emily, finding out about this affair finally
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gave Laura the push she needed to leave Dave and file for divorce. And she told Emily that she had it all planned out.
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The weekend of April 20th, Dave was going to be taking two of their kids to this wrestling tournament in New Mexico.
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And so she was going to use that time to get a new car, to get a rental house, and she planned to move all of her stuff
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into that. Now come that weekend, everything was lined up and ready to go. The last step would be to loop in the
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nanny because Laura didn't want Dave to even know where she lived. So she needed
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Stacy to agree to kind of be the one to usher the kids between the houses for whatever custody arrangement ended up
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being made. >> Okay. Now, the dates of the following events are inconsistent in Gilbert police
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interviews. So I'm going to base the stuff I'm about to tell you, this timeline, off of the Highland Justice
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Court's report [music] which was taken on Sunday, April 21st. Saturday, April 20th, Laura told Stacy
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her plan. And she asked Stacy to take their third son, the one that had stayed home with her, to Stacy's own apartment
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for the night so that she could get all of her things out of the shared house and into her rental. And she explicitly
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told Stacy, quote, "Not to tell Dave anything." And Stacy asked Laura if she was sure about the divorce and Laura
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said yes, quote, "Everything was taken care of." So the next day, Sunday, April 21st, when Dave was on his way back home
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with the two kids, Laura told Stacy to bring their other son back to Dave's so that he would be there when Dave got
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back. Now according to what Dave told police, after he got there, Laura put all three children in the car and told
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Dave that she was going to take them to the store. But she told the kids that they were going to have an adventure and
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stay at a friend's house. >> Assuming friend's house is code for her rental. It doesn't say that explicitly
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in the police report, but I think that's a fair assumption. So here's the thing though, Laura didn't drive off right
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away. I don't know why, but she went back into the house. And what happened in the hour or so that followed is
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different [music] depending on which Sweetman is narrating. The only official record we have is that at 8:44 p.m.
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Laura called the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office from a movie theater about [music] 8 minutes away from Dave's
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house. She told them that about an hour and a half prior she had an altercation with her husband at their house where he
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held her against her will and threatened to kill her and himself. She said that she tried to leave
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multiple times but each time Dave grabbed her by the throat and pulled her back into the house. And she said that
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he tried to choke her three separate times. When she finally escaped she went to that theater where she was joined by
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her friend. >> Wait, where were the kids that whole time? Honestly, I don't know. It's
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unclear if Stacy is still with them or if they're all still in the car or if maybe Stacy took them away. I don't know
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but honestly they're just not even mentioned in the Highland Justice Court's report. All I know is that Laura
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is calling from the theater and police go to their house and respond and take Dave into custody.
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But when they do he's adamant that he did not hurt Laura. He denied holding her hostage explaining that during what
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she called an altercation she was just feet from the door able to leave and he was sitting he says either like on the
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ground or across the room from her. But he did admit that he had her car keys. So she couldn't leave. Yeah, well
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at least not in the car it seems. And he also told deputies that he didn't think
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he had threatened to hurt Laura but he might have said something irrational when he was upset.
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>> So it's like a he said she said situation. But not quite because there was a witness in the house. A 1-hour and
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2-minute long audio recording that Laura captured of the whole incident. Quiet coastal towns may seem peaceful
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but they can harbor dark secrets. I'm Kylie Low host of Dark Down East a podcast that tells true crime stories
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from my own New England community to help victims and families get justice. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you
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get your podcasts. >> [music] >> If any copy of this recording exists [music] anymore we weren't able to find
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it. According to the incident report Dave can be heard on it threatening to shoot
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himself several times but he did not say that he was going to harm Laura. At least audibly. Right. And Laura did ask
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to leave twice but both times Dave said no and that he wanted to talk. And one of those times it sounded like there was
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a physical struggle and Laura could be heard yelling for help. Okay, so technically Dave didn't say anything out
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loud. He just did something to stop her. Like way to play the semantics game dude.
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>> to Dave what they heard wasn't a struggle. He told deputies that the only time he put his hands on Laura was to
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quote hug her and hold her close. While she yelled help me. He says the moment where she said help me might have been
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when they were like deep in an embrace I guess one of Laura's two cell phones slipped out of her belt and
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>> So she yelled help me. That's what he said and he says he did. He picked up the phone and set it aside for her.
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Now deputies wrote that they didn't see any marks or injuries on Laura [music] and Dave later told police quote I'm
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fortunate that I didn't do anything. Which is like He's fortunate? It's a really weird thing to say. I know.
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But I'm not sure if Laura like had a full body examination or if the deputy just sort of like gave her like an up
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and down with his eyes at the theater because it doesn't state anywhere that she was like taken to the station or
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taken to a hospital. And one of Laura's friends told deputies that they saw pink
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marks on Laura's neck that had just gone away by the time that police were actually talking to her but we have no
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way to actually confirm that now. The incident report literally says quote no photos were taken because none to take.
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>> Is this the first kind of call like this or was there like I guess I'm I'm asking like is there any
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history of violence with Dave in the past? From what we could find he was arrested for assault in 2008 but the
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charges were dismissed. So I don't have any details on what that was or who it even involved.
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>> Oh. However, in the police file there is a friend who said that Laura admitted to
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her that Dave was abusive. Quote mostly verbal and mental abuse and some physical abuse but not as much as the
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mental. End quote. And then another friend told police that people around Laura were afraid that Dave would harm
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her. >> Like always afraid or just after this incident? Both but at least from what I
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can read no one ever witnessed any physical violence. Injuries or not though [music] Dave did get arrested for
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the assault and unlawful imprisonment and he allegedly spent a night in jail. But according to the police file when
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the charges got forwarded to the Highland Justice Court they were dropped due to insufficient evidence. So
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literally recording what happened isn't even enough for like the she part of he said she said. Not enough for charges.
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Cool. But it was enough to get Laura an order of protection against David and full custody of the children. She filed
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for that the day after this incident and Laura and Dave did not see each other again for over 5 months.
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In that time she was living at her rental house doing her pediatric neurology work taking care of her kids
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spending time with friends and she had even started to date. But Laura's close friends knew that this was not an easy
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time for her. Emily told police that Laura was always scared of Dave and then she told us that Laura did not feel
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safe. On top of that Laura was working all the time and constantly stressed particularly
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about [music] money. I mean to the point where Emily said Laura would make comments about what she couldn't afford
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at the coffee shop that they would go to together. And Laura apparently stopped going to the gym for personal training
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because she could no longer afford sessions. I know money and like financial support
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is a big reason that a lot of people feel like they they can't leave a relationship but I'm
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I'm kind of surprised about that in this situation cuz like girl's legit got like a good paying job
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as a doctor. >> Neurology. Yeah, I'm sure she got paid well at Phoenix Children's Hospital. I'm
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just not clear what other factors were at play. I mean I know Emily asked her about it before but Laura would just say
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that she had a lot of student loan debt which like med school that's no joke. >> But she also mentioned some IRS tax
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stuff that had to do with Dave. Okay, go on. I can't. Like we weren't able to corroborate anything involving the IRS
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with official records so I don't know what Laura might have been referring to. But what is in the police report though
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is this. One of Laura's coworkers at Phoenix Children's Hospital told investigators
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that he and Laura discovered Dave had started several businesses that she didn't even know about.
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He told police that she only found out when people began calling her demanding money over bad deals that Dave had
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allegedly made. And one of the men that Laura was seeing around the time of her death told police
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he knew Dave had quote dickered over on a bunch of money. >> [music] >> End quote. But he didn't elaborate.
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According to what Emily told police Dave would say things to Laura about how he was going to end up with the money in
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the divorce. >> is there even money to end up with? Dude, I don't know maybe in 2013 right?
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I know by 2020 when his business partner Nick Cordova was murdered he was allegedly taking money from the business
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and we know there were like previous times that he and his businesses were sued for unlisted reasons and he was
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ordered to pay thousands of dollars. Plus if you look at the businesses that David had at the time Gilbert Air and
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Monster Impound and Recovery online there's still like a number of negative reviews alleging price gouging
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and illegal towing scams. >> And did he own those at the time of the divorce? The towing company yes but it
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looks like actually Gilbert Air was founded a couple of years later. So listen, this what I'm saying is I don't
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know what Dave's full financial deal was in 2013 but you definitely can see some
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like red flags at least later. >> And how did these threats about money even make it to Laura if there's a
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protective order in place and he doesn't even know where she lives? Like I assume
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they they weren't even speaking. What I know is that the order of protection barred Laura and Dave from having
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in-person contact or like talking on the phone but like texting email was totally
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fine. I never like understand these things. So it's very possible that they could have been messaging each other
00:19:00
about the divorce. [music] But by all accounts Dave really didn't see Laura or the children even until
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October of 2013. This is about 5 months after the domestic violence call. That is when a judge finally gave Dave
00:19:15
some kind of shared custody where he would get the boys every other week. Even then Dave and Laura didn't see each
00:19:22
other except for once at their son's baseball game because remember they had Stacy to usher the boys back and forth.
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So it was important to Laura that Dave not know where she lived but friends and family wonder if he found out [music]
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because they told police that in the months leading up to her death Laura was worried that someone had been following
00:19:45
her. And they believed that it was either Dave or someone that he hired. So maybe he could figure out where it was
00:19:54
she was living. To be clear, no one ever reported seeing Dave at Laura's rental house, and Dave insisted to detectives
00:20:02
that he had no idea where she lived. But, there is one detail in the police report that sticks out to me.
00:20:11
On November 14th, this is less than a month before Laura would be found dead in her home.
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One of her neighbors called police to report a suspicious car parked across the street from Laura's house. It was a
00:20:25
white Isuzu Rodeo with an Arizona license plate. He said there was a white man in the driver's seat doing something
00:20:33
on his phone, and when he walked up to ask him, you know, what he was doing in the neighborhood, the man said that it
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was none of his business and basically cursed [music] him out. Now, our reporter, Nicole Kegan, was able to get
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in touch with this neighbor, a man named Harry. And he said that this car drove by his
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house at least three times that day, and he called police because he thought the
00:20:55
man driving might have been following him. Now, he couldn't say exactly how long the car was in the neighborhood,
00:21:01
but at least a couple of hours, and it seemed like the driver was looking for somebody.
00:21:06
But then at night, Harry noticed that the car parked in [music] Laura's driveway.
00:21:11
>> And did this happen more than once? Well, Harry said that was the only time that he knew of this car being in the
00:21:18
neighborhood. But either way, he said that police didn't seem to care about the call, and they never followed up
00:21:23
with him. And he says he remembers calling them back later himself, and they just said, quote, "Nothing
00:21:28
further." Now, all Harry remembered was that the guy in the car was a white guy with a
00:21:34
medium build, which like sure, fits Dave, but also everyone else. >> How many other Yeah, how many other
00:21:41
guys? But here's the wild part. For what it's worth, Harry did keep meticulous records. So, when Nicole was talking to
00:21:51
him about this, he's like, "Oh, you You know what? Wait 1 second. Let me just go
00:21:54
check my crime folder to see if I have notes from that time." His what? >> I don't know if this man listens to the
00:22:02
show, but he should. He is a crime junkie, because what he did reminds me of when I was young and we would go on
00:22:07
road trips with my family. >> Yes. And while other kids, I'm sure, were like on road trips had coloring
00:22:11
books or like playing I spy, I had this like little notebook. I'm sure you know who I am. Who are I would like to see
00:22:16
this notebook. >> I would like take down license plate numbers of cars that I found to be
00:22:20
suspicious. >> You, like 7-year-old you. It never I don't like that car. It never came in
00:22:24
handy, but Harry's crime folder might come in handy. Because when he went to his computer, he's like, "Yep, I took
00:22:33
notes about this." >> Of course he did. >> I took notes of the type of car, and by
00:22:36
the way, the license plate number, which, Brit, we tried so hard to run this down. I mean, he gave us the
00:22:44
number, >> Yeah. but there's this thing called the Driver's Privacy Protection Act, which
00:22:49
keeps people who aren't detectives or PIs from running license plates to identify a driver.
00:22:54
>> Which like makes sense. And listen, that's where we were like, we even were like, "Oh, we'll just like hire a PI."
00:22:59
But like the DPPA makes it difficult to even do that, too, cuz you're you can't just like be a media company and use
00:23:05
them to like go around it. >> Right, right. But I know for a fact that Harry gave this license plate number to
00:23:11
the police. What I don't know is if they ever did anything with it, if they tracked down
00:23:17
this driver, or who that driver was, because there is no further mention of this tip in Laura's file. Now, we did
00:23:23
FOIA the incident report for Harry's call, but as of this recording, we still haven't gotten a response from the
00:23:28
Gilbert Police Department. In fact, when you submit a request through their portal, it says the minimum processing
00:23:34
time is 18 months. Is that even legal? Uh our legal counsel says she doesn't think so. It's a
00:23:44
constructive denial, which is basically means that the agency didn't want to explicitly say no.
00:23:49
>> anything but no. Yeah, but like so they're basically in their actions or like their lack of actions like does the
00:23:54
speaking for them. So, million-dollar question, what kind of car did Dave drive? Did I
00:24:02
have no idea? No one we asked remembered from that time. And this would have This
00:24:09
would have been a super simple question for police to have answered at the time,
00:24:13
but there is nothing in the records about them checking cars after this tip came in.
00:24:18
>> And was this neighbor's tip in Laura's file, or is just like records we pulled
00:24:22
from calls placed in the neighborhood? >> it's right there in the file. It's just
00:24:26
not >> Never followed up on. >> No. But regardless, I don't think it's outrageous to speculate that whoever was
00:24:33
in that car, for whatever reason, it might have had to do with Laura. Well, yeah, especially if they're parked
00:24:41
in her driveway. So. That is when she did something strange right before Thanksgiving.
00:24:48
Laura wrote a prescription and asked one of her friends, who we're going to call
00:24:53
Tara, for a favor. She wanted Tara to fill the prescription in Tara's name, but then give it to
00:25:01
Laura. Was this something she had done before? Not that we know of. And Tara actually told police that Laura had
00:25:09
never asked her to do any favors at all. But she said that Laura was, quote, "Really behind on paperwork and in
00:25:16
desperation" when she asked this. I don't know if she ever did this before with anyone else. As far as I can tell,
00:25:23
Laura was like a pretty by-the-books person, and this is definitely not legal. Like it could be considered
00:25:29
prescription fraud. And if there is controlled substances involved, >> then it's a huge deal.
00:25:34
>> Yeah, I mean, it can rise to felony charges. It's like the kind of thing that if found out by the medical board,
00:25:38
could cause someone's medical license to be suspended or even revoked. So, I don't know what was driving her to
00:25:46
do this now. >> And do we know what the prescription was for? No, it's redacted in the file, and
00:25:51
Tara declined to speak with us for this episode. [music] Emily, who we talked to, said that she
00:25:57
believed it was for treating anxiety, which like given everything that was going on with Laura at the time, like it
00:26:03
didn't surprise Emily that she might have taken something like that. So, now this brings me to early December.
00:26:09
[music] Laura took the kids to San Diego for Thanksgiving, so when they got back on
00:26:14
December 1st, the boys went to stay with their dad for a full week, including the
00:26:19
weekend. So, they're with him on Monday, December 9th, the morning that Laura Sweetman was
00:26:25
found dead. That morning, it was pretty obvious that something had happened to Laura. She was
00:26:31
a no-call, no-show for work. And I've worked with doctors before. For any good doctor, that is unheard of. So, pretty
00:26:39
early in the morning, one of her co-workers started making calls to check on her. When she didn't answer, they
00:26:45
called Stacy and asked her to go check on Laura. This was shortly before 9:10 a.m.
00:26:50
When Stacy got to Laura's, the metal gate door on the front door, it's like what we would call like a screen door,
00:26:56
right? That was locked and the front door, both locked as usual. So, she had to use her key to get inside. She was
00:27:03
greeted by both of Laura's dogs, but she didn't see Laura anywhere or hear anything when she called out her name.
00:27:09
Before she could even go up the stairs to check Laura's room, she saw the first sign that something was off. Right at
00:27:17
the base of the staircase, the plastic gate that was usually in place to keep Laura's smaller dog from getting by was
00:27:24
laying on the floor in this like diagonal position a few feet away from the staircase. Stacy actually had to
00:27:31
move it out of the way so she could get up the steps. And upstairs, Laura wasn't
00:27:36
in her unmade bed. Stacy found her in the bathtub unresponsive. Within 5 minutes of calling 911, Gilbert
00:27:45
firefighters are at the scene. And what's documented is that Laura was naked, unresponsive, and foaming at the
00:27:54
mouth. And while there was water in the tub, Laura's face wasn't submerged, and there
00:28:00
were no other obvious wounds or bleeding that explained what had happened. But there was no hope of saving her,
00:28:07
because when the fire captain tried to move Laura's arm, he realized that she was already in full rigor, which sets in
00:28:15
after like 6 [snorts] to 12 hours-ish. >> Which would put her time of death at >> Based on my math, sometime between 9:00
00:28:23
p.m. on the 8th and 3:00 a.m. on the 9th. But there is no time of death listed in the police or the ME reports.
00:28:33
So, do we know if anyone saw her in in that window of time? Well, before I get to that, I I want to first point out
00:28:39
some things about the scene. To the first detective that arrives on scene, everything seems in order. Like
00:28:47
there's no obvious signs of a struggle or forced entry. But according to Stacy, there are some things that are out of
00:28:54
place. That dog gate, for one. But also, when she heard the fire truck coming, Stacy went to let the dogs out
00:29:01
in the backyard, and that's when she got a second sign that something was off. The back door, which Laura always locked
00:29:09
before going to bed, was unlocked. So, someone could have easily walked right in. Or walked right
00:29:16
out. It also could mean that she died before going to sleep that night, like before all of her like nighttime
00:29:23
routine. >> Right, before she got a chance to fully lock up for the night. And until police
00:29:26
know what caused Laura's death, like they do have to treat this whole thing as suspicious, which means talking to
00:29:32
those who knew her. This is how we have anything in the police file. And I want to start with Dave's first interview
00:29:39
with police. Because it's really strange. When a detective calls Dave the day that
00:29:50
Laura was found, he tells Dave that Laura is part of an investigation and [music] asks if Dave is able to pick
00:29:58
their kids up from school. A part of an investigation? Like they don't tell him that Laura is dead? Dave asks what's
00:30:05
wrong, but they say that they can't explain it over the phone. So, they agree to meet Dave at his house. Here's
00:30:11
where it gets interesting. So, according to the police file, when Dave greets the
00:30:15
detective outside of his house, he's already crying. Even though they haven't told him what
00:30:22
happened. Exactly. Did Stacy tell him? No, the detective immediately clocks this as odd. So, he specifically asks if
00:30:32
Dave spoke to anyone and he says, [music] "No." So, why is he crying? File doesn't say.
00:30:41
But when the detective finally does tell Dave that Laura died, he just like doubles over and starts
00:30:48
sobbing uncontrollably, which the detective says continues for the duration of their conversation. And they
00:30:55
speak about Laura's medical history, the order of protection, the divorce, the domestic violence call, and even his
00:31:02
affair. But Dave maintains that he had no idea where Laura lived or what her life was
00:31:09
like after they separated. From what I can see, the last time he tells them that he saw Laura was at their son's
00:31:16
baseball game back in October. And for all the things they do talk about, nowhere in the summary [music] do I see
00:31:23
the detective asking Dave any accusatory questions or even anything about where he was the night before. So, we don't
00:31:30
know if he had an alibi or not. Not explicitly, no. But what his three sons were with him all
00:31:40
weekend. How old were they? Back in 2013, they would have been like around six, eight, and nine. And do we know if
00:31:49
they had a sitter at any point or could he have left after they went to bed? Like that would make for a pretty good
00:31:55
alibi. >> Yeah, I mean, sure. Like Laura's rental was only 15 minutes away, but there's no
00:32:00
record of anyone sitting for them. And we reached out to one of Dave and Laura's now adult sons for comment, but
00:32:06
he declined to speak and asked that we not contact anyone else in his family. What I do know is that Gilbert PD did
00:32:14
look at Dave's phone and that showed that he was at his house from the night of December 8th through the morning of
00:32:22
the 9th, up until he dropped the kids off at school between like 7:00 and 7:30 that morning.
00:32:27
>> You mean his phone was there. That's his phone. A phone can be left anywhere.
00:32:31
>> Sure, which is why I'm dying to see more records. Like was there activity on it
00:32:36
during that time? Like was it normal activity? Did they look at location data outside of just that night? Did it ever
00:32:42
come close to Laura's rental? And I would also really love to ask Dave about all of this, but he didn't respond to
00:32:48
any of our calls or our messages. So, when all this happened, were people suspicious of Dave like right off the
00:32:54
bat? Oh, yeah. Laura's dad, her stepmom, one of her coworkers, and Emily all told
00:33:01
police that they thought Dave had something to do with Laura's death. In fact, according to the police file, the
00:33:07
moment Emily heard that Laura died, she immediately texted a friend and said, quote,
00:33:13
"I'm so sick to my stomach. I know David had to do something with it." End quote.
00:33:20
I mean, if we think about possible motive, with Laura gone, Dave could avoid the divorce proceedings.
00:33:28
He'd automatically get custody of the kids. Like this would simplify things for him.
00:33:32
>> what did happen. And some people we spoke to have suggested that Dave benefited from Laura's life insurance
00:33:39
policy, though we have not been able to corroborate that with any official records.
00:33:45
But spoiler alert, Dave has never been publicly named as a suspect or person of interest in this case.
00:33:52
But also, no one has. Because this case has never been discussed publicly by the
00:33:58
police department. So, in my eyes, Dave does seem suspicious, but it's hard to tell how much of that is coming from the
00:34:06
evidence [music] versus like the people in the police file who were already convinced it was
00:34:11
him. And I'll go on the record as saying he may not be the only person in Laura's
00:34:16
life who deserves that level of attention. We know Laura had started to date other
00:34:22
men when she separated from Dave, right? Well, she was in communication with at least five of them in the weeks leading
00:34:29
up to her death. And one of those five was the last known person to see Laura alive.
00:34:36
So, the day before Laura died, this would have been Sunday, December 8th, she invited a man that she had been
00:34:42
seeing named Will over to her place. Will was a trainer at the gym that she went to.
00:34:49
Now, his description of their relationship when he talks to police on December 10th is that they met because
00:34:54
of the training, like he trained both her and Dave at one point, and then they started talking more, going to lunch
00:35:00
together, and that they were, quote, basically friends. But Will does admit to being at Laura's
00:35:05
on the 8th, quote, "for maybe an hour." Okay, like which hour and like to do what? For some reason I cannot
00:35:13
understand, they never actually ask Will for the time that he left, which like is
00:35:19
the important part? >> Yes. And we asked Emily if she knew because she and Will used to be friends,
00:35:24
too, and she said that at the time he told her that he left between 9:00 and 11:00 p.m. But I can't find anything to
00:35:33
corroborate that and it doesn't seem like he explicitly says like what he was even there for. Or at
00:35:40
least if he does say that, it doesn't make it into the police file. So, when he left, what they were doing, I don't
00:35:45
know. Now, he says that when he left at whatever time that was, Laura was completely fine and he says that she
00:35:54
didn't mention anything about anyone else coming to the house that night. But even he adds that he knew Laura was
00:36:00
afraid of Dave and that he really hoped she died of natural causes. I mean, for his sake or hers? That is a great
00:36:10
follow-up question that was not asked. What the detective does seem to ask Will is [music] if he still has any text
00:36:19
messages with Laura from Sunday on his phone. And he says, "No." That he deleted them because he had a
00:36:26
girlfriend and he didn't want her to know about Laura. But I thought he and Laura were just friends.
00:36:32
>> Buddies, right? Yeah. I I think it's safe to assume that it could have been more than that because when Will
00:36:39
consents to give his phone over to police, which he does, he prefaces that there are, quote, images of Laura on it.
00:36:47
Whatever that means. Now, along with his phone, Will gives his DNA, though I don't know what for
00:36:54
because there is no mention in the redacted file of anything that they might be wanting to compare this to. I
00:37:01
know investigators did do a sexual assault kit on Laura, but none of the files that we received mention the
00:37:06
results of that. And do they ever just straight-up ask Will if he had anything to do with Laura's death?
00:37:12
>> Not that I can see. And like Dave, there is no information whatsoever about an
00:37:17
alibi. Actually, at least with Dave, we have phone data. We don't even get that for Will in the file. We don't even know
00:37:24
for sure if he like did leave Laura's place. Well, I mean, we know he wasn't there on Sunday when Stacy got there in
00:37:31
the morning. >> that's all we know. That's all I can say for sure, right. And our reporter
00:37:35
reached out to Will for comment, but as of this recording, he hasn't gotten back
00:37:38
to us. But like I said, Will wasn't the only man that Laura was seeing at the time. In fact, he's not even the only
00:37:45
man she saw that weekend. Through analyzing Laura's text messages, police were able to determine that on
00:37:51
Saturday, December 7th, Laura went on a date with a man named Shaheen. And on Sunday, she texted multiple men to try
00:37:59
and make plans for that night. She asked a man named Ameka to see a movie. She was going to spend the night
00:38:05
with a man named Darren, but he canceled. So, that night she ended up having dinner with a man named Bruce.
00:38:12
And then after that dinner is when Will must have come over. Do these guys know about each other? Well, Will tells the
00:38:18
police that he didn't know about anyone else. As for the other guys, we tried to reach
00:38:23
all of them because as far as I can tell, police never did. But as of this recording, we have not been able to
00:38:30
connect with any of them. I mean, you want to talk about motive? Like who's to say what one of these guys
00:38:37
didn't like find out about the rest, get jealous? >> Right? Like what if the car that Harry
00:38:42
saw, the neighbor, was one of these guys? >> Which like I was going to ask like did
00:38:45
any of them have like a medium build and were white? But like like we said before, that could be any of them.
00:38:50
>> Yeah, I couldn't find any photos of Darren, Ameka, or Shaheen online. But I mean, Will and Bruce could fit that
00:38:56
description. >> And like what if one of them saw Will leaving the house and like confronted
00:39:01
her? The problem I have with a theory like that, no matter who like it would involve, is that feels like a crime of
00:39:09
passion, right? And those usually have a clear-cut cause of death. That is not what we get here.
00:39:17
Which brings me to the part of this case that has been keeping me up at night. Laura's autopsy report. We were able to
00:39:26
get the medical examiner's report and the toxicology report completely unredacted from the Maricopa County
00:39:32
Medical Examiner's office. And let's just say they raise a lot of questions. So, our reporter Nicole
00:39:39
reached out to the medical examiner who performed Laura's autopsy. His name is Dr. Mark Shelley and she consulted an
00:39:46
outside forensic pathologist who has no ties to this case to go through everything line by line and make sure
00:39:53
that we understood exactly what the findings were. The first thing of note is that Laura had no internal injuries.
00:40:02
But there is evidence of trauma on her body. Dr. Shelley notes surface-level bruises,
00:40:10
scrapes, and redness on Laura's head, back, breast, elbow, forearms, wrist, hand, leg, and knee.
00:40:20
But according to the pathologist that we consulted, it's hard to know what what like these might be [music] from. Like
00:40:27
there's no description of any particular patterns. >> And they were all like fresh or or
00:40:33
recent? >> So not all of them cuz this is the other thing, some appear to have been at least
00:40:38
a week old. And Will told police in his interview that Laura bruised easily and would have bruises in random places,
00:40:45
specifically like her shins and her arms, but he didn't know how she got them. He said it never looked like she
00:40:50
had been beaten up or anything like that. >> Okay, did police specifically ask him
00:40:55
that because to them it looked like she'd been beaten up? It's honestly not totally clear from the file like what
00:41:01
prompted that information out of him, but it also could have come up when they were talking about her workout routines
00:41:07
since I mean right we know he's a trainer cuz I actually know that Dave told police Laura {quote} works out like
00:41:14
an idiot. And the pathologist that we consulted said that all of these injuries could have been sustained
00:41:19
during frequent workouts except for the signs of trauma to her head. There is a contusion around the size of
00:41:28
like a business card on the top of Laura's head and then another near her left temple.
00:41:36
Neither of these were lethal injuries. But I don't could they have knocked Laura unconscious? The pathologist says
00:41:42
it's not likely, but it is possible. And were those injuries recent? I would assume yes because they're not noted as
00:41:51
healing like some of the other bruises are. But I can't say 100% for sure. I mean
00:41:57
without photos or more detailed report, the bruises and the contusions are hard to explain. And what's somehow even
00:42:05
harder to explain is the foaming at the mouth. And this is where things start to get
00:42:11
really weird. According to the pathologist, foaming at the mouth is common in drowning because when water
00:42:19
enters someone's lungs and they try to breathe, the air mixes with the water and this thing called surfactant,
00:42:25
[music] which is a natural soapy fluid. And like this mixing creates foam. But Dr. Shelley wrote {quote} there was
00:42:34
no definitive evidence of drowning. End quote. Which also sounds like there was no definitive
00:42:42
evidence that she didn't drown. The pathologist told us that given the bruising on Laura's arm, it's possible
00:42:50
that someone could have held her underwater and drowned her. But without [music] seeing the scene
00:42:55
photos or photos of her body, he just can't say anything with certainty. And Gilbert PD hasn't released any of that.
00:43:03
>> But was there any water in her airways? Dr. Shelley doesn't note any water specifically, but there was {quote}
00:43:10
moderate amounts of blood and frothy fluid. End quote. And that was like in her lungs.
00:43:16
And I wish Gilbert PD would release more or talk to us because to me, the number
00:43:23
one question I have is how was she positioned in the tub? Same because like we know her head wasn't submerged, but I
00:43:32
mean did the water drain out a little bit? Right like you would think that like if her nose and mouth had been
00:43:37
underwater for like a longer period of time, I would I would imagine that it would be like foamy. Like maybe that
00:43:42
would wash away. >> that, yeah. And like actually how much foam was there even? I don't know. Was
00:43:48
she laying down like she was just like enjoying a bath? How cold was the water? I have 4 million questions that the
00:43:55
autopsy report alone does not answer. Now, I know from talking to Emily that Laura was a bath girly. Take it from one
00:44:02
who knows. Particularly loved taking baths at night. But did she go into that tub on her own? That is my question
00:44:11
and I don't know the answer. But let's say for a second that this wasn't a drowning.
00:44:19
There is something else that can cause foaming at the mouth and that is a heart attack. But this is truly a whole
00:44:26
'nother can of worms because according to the ME's report, Dr. Shelley says that he received Laura's medical history
00:44:33
which included {quote} a prior myocardial infarction. End quote. Which is medical speak for a heart attack. But
00:44:42
the pathologist that we spoke to said he wants to know where Dr. Shelley got that
00:44:47
medical history from because the autopsy report states that there was no scarring, no abnormalities of the heart
00:44:54
or cardiovascular system at all. Which he says there typically would be if there was a previous heart attack. But I
00:45:03
mean I know Shelley isn't just like pulling this out of thin air. He's not. That information is backed up in the
00:45:09
police report. In interviews, Laura's friends and family and doctors state that Laura did have a heart attack in
00:45:16
September 2011. This is 2 years before her death. She had it while training for a marathon and she would have been like
00:45:23
39 at the time. [music] And to their credit, Gilbert PD went to Laura's cardiologist who said that when she came
00:45:29
in in 2011, she {quote} did not have any significant blockage and there were not
00:45:35
any additional interventions >> [music] >> needed. So she had a heart attack, but
00:45:40
there was basically no physical evidence of it? I guess so. That cardiologist said that they placed Laura on this like
00:45:48
short-term medication until she took a stress test which showed that she was fine. And actually in May 2013, almost 7
00:45:55
months before her death, Laura saw her cardiologist who said that she was asymptomatic with no complaints. They
00:46:01
also did a blood workup at that time which showed that there was no underlying cause for the initial heart
00:46:06
attack. So it's like if you take everyone at their word, Laura had a heart attack. But if you look at the
00:46:13
evidence >> her heart >> her actual heart which you can only do in an autopsy, she didn't. So
00:46:20
Okay, what like I'm like spiraling on this. Was she like misdiagnosed? Was it just like severe chest pain or like a
00:46:29
panic attack? >> Without like actually seeing her medical records myself, I don't know how they
00:46:33
came to the conclusion that it was a heart attack. Like I'm I'm assuming there had to been some kind of testing,
00:46:38
right? She's a doctor, too. Like I don't Maybe it was so mild that it didn't leave evidence? I mean is that is
00:46:46
that possible? Is that even a a thing? I mean we asked Dr. Shelley, he said that
00:46:49
every case is different and it would depend on the exact intensity of the heart attack.
00:46:54
>> Which I guess makes sense. >> Yeah, and and he says that's information he doesn't remember from her medical
00:46:58
records and like I said, we don't have them. But he remembers that there was no evidence of a new heart attack, but he
00:47:05
couldn't remember if there was evidence of a previous one. And I mean if there was, I think he would have
00:47:10
recorded it. Correct. Maybe it was as undamaging as any heart attack could be because Emily did tell us that Laura
00:47:18
bounced back really quickly after this and just kind of like almost played it off. Like oh, no big deal, just like a
00:47:24
heart attack, whatever. But if there was anything wrong with her heart at any point, there was something Dr. Shelley
00:47:32
noted in his report that could have contributed to her heart stopping. He says that a prescription stimulant
00:47:39
medication was found at the scene. Like stimulant like Adderall? Could have been
00:47:44
anything like that, right? Like Adderall, Ritalin, sure if Laura had. And today, Dr.
00:47:55
Shelley didn't remember what the specific medication was. >> But he's saying it was at the scene. Was
00:48:01
it in her system? That's the catch. There is nothing in her system. Laura's toxicology screen came back completely
00:48:10
clean. There's no alcohol, no common drugs of abuse, no prescription stimulants, or even anxiety medication.
00:48:18
>> So it couldn't have contributed to her heart stopping if she didn't take it. Like finding at the scene means nothing.
00:48:24
Yeah, or at least she didn't take it recently if she had before. Like not that not that day, right?
00:48:29
>> Right like but who was the drug prescribed to? The report doesn't say. But I mean as we know, a basic drug
00:48:37
screen only rules out the most common drugs of abuse. >> they're looking for something specific.
00:48:42
>> Yeah. Like I mean it's like right, it's like probably weed, cocaine, like stimulants. It doesn't mean
00:48:49
that there couldn't have been like something else in Laura's system. It just means that those hypothetical drugs
00:48:55
or like those like common drugs were not there. And [music] Nothing else was tested for.
00:48:59
>> Right, nothing else was tested for. And because the toxicologist didn't include
00:49:03
a methodology in the report, there's no way for us to know what sorts of instruments were used and what
00:49:08
quantities of like drugs that they could detect. >> And is that something that's usually
00:49:12
included in those reports? You know, I'm finding that it really depends on the specific lab or the person performing
00:49:20
the autopsy. >> Great. But the pathologist that we spoke to said that the reports that he's
00:49:26
familiar with usually does include that stuff. And you know, this is one of like the
00:49:31
biggest surprises to me as I've learned about how homicide investigations work. I am shocked at how few standards there
00:49:40
are and like what is optional? Like with any other profession where you have people's life and death in your hands,
00:49:47
there are strict rules about training, certification, continued education, oaths and expectations. Think about what
00:49:53
like Laura probably had to go through to be a neurologist. >> Oh, yeah. But if your loved one is
00:49:57
murdered, you got to just hope and pray that your detective knows what he's doing and that the lab has the right
00:50:04
people running the right tests and then you cross your fingers. And like I'm honestly done with people coming to me
00:50:11
and talking about like underfunding. I know the guys in the trenches can't help it and they don't have a say, but our
00:50:18
government is out here spending like $200 million on a Homeland Security ad saying like don't come here in English
00:50:24
and based on Pentagon estimates reviewed by lawmakers by mid-March, we already spent 11.6 billion on a war that I'm
00:50:32
pretty sure none of us want. And you're telling me we don't have money for justice reform?
00:50:37
>> like a little bit of justice reform. >> have to start a nonprofit to pay out of
00:50:41
my own pocket to solve cold cases because we can't afford it. Like give me a break. What should be done with our tax
00:50:49
dollars can be done. You can solve cases with your vote, you guys. Just remember
00:50:55
that. But I will get off my soapbox and back to this autopsy report that apparently
00:51:00
can include or exclude whatever it wants because there are no rules. There are few rules and it's optional to follow
00:51:06
them. So, another thing that the pathologist we consulted with pointed out was that
00:51:12
there is at least one test result that is discussed in the ME's report that is not mentioned in the tox screen. It's a
00:51:21
sodium level test on fluid from Laura's eye which apparently shows an unusually low number.
00:51:29
And that, he says, is something that you could see in association with fresh water drowning.
00:51:38
It's not definitive evidence [music] of drowning. The pathologist said that you could also see that in someone who
00:51:43
like binge drinks water, but it does raise the question. What else was tested that might have been
00:51:51
left out of the report? All in all, the pathologist said that what he can see from the reports seems to be reasonable,
00:51:59
but if he were doing the autopsy, there are a few things that he would have done
00:52:03
differently to try and get more information. He said that he would have wanted to do a detailed neuropathy
00:52:09
examination or dissect Laura's cardiac conduction system, which Dr. Shelley says that he might have done and is just
00:52:16
not mentioned in the file. But like he doesn't remember now. The consultant also would have wanted to
00:52:22
do some genetic testing to see if Laura had any inherited conditions that could have caused sudden death because of a
00:52:27
heart problem. Like there is this thing called long QT syndrome Which we talked about before. It was in the Lauren
00:52:33
Spierer episode way back, but that's an inherited heart disorder that can cause sudden fainting, seizures, or cardiac
00:52:40
arrest, particularly when the heart beats in an irregular way, like during exercise or stress. Now, Dr. Shelley
00:52:47
says that he doesn't remember if the genetic testing for that was available back in 2013.
00:52:53
>> But it's not like Laura was exercising in her bathtub. True, but we know she was extremely stressed in the months
00:52:58
leading up to her death and, you know, when Will was there, I don't know what these buddies were doing when they were
00:53:03
hanging out. Listen, like the pathologist we talked to said that he doesn't know if any of those tests would
00:53:08
even yield anything. [music] But like what if they did? >> Right. He said that the way Laura was
00:53:14
found suggests to him that she drowned. But what he can't interpret from the reports is why might she have drowned?
00:53:24
>> Mhm. Did someone hold her under the water? Did she have a seizure? Did she fall and get knocked unconscious? Did
00:53:30
she overdose on something on purpose or by accident and it's just a drug that wasn't tested for in the tox screen?
00:53:37
>> I mean, the fall question is really interesting because I feel like the thing that doesn't fit into any of this
00:53:43
is like the dog gate being at the bottom of the stairs. Like I know. >> It it's like I don't know what to make
00:53:48
of that. >> Right, it's notable, but but I don't know what it means. >> Right, did someone like rush out and hit
00:53:52
it? Did she trip over it and hit her head? >> And I I think if she had done it, like
00:53:58
she would have put the gate back up. Like it was there for a reason, it's her house, right?
00:54:02
>> Maybe. Without further investigation like like I we have to guess because all we
00:54:08
have are these reports which don't explain any of that. And I don't know what to think based on just reviewing
00:54:15
these reports. Dr. Shelley said it looks like a typical autopsy and though he doesn't remember what he was thinking
00:54:21
back then, he would make the same undetermined conclusion about the cause and manner of death today with the
00:54:28
information he has. Which he he says is not a common finding that like in the medical examiner world, but quote it
00:54:37
happens. And this is an interesting part, whenever it does happen, the case has to be reviewed by at least one other
00:54:44
pathologist. >> And was this one? I couldn't tell you because there's no documented evidence of a review in the
00:54:53
ME report and when we asked Dr. Shelley if that happened, he said it likely would have been reviewed, but quote 2013
00:55:01
resources are different from 2026 resources, so my best recollection is that we would have done everything we
00:55:09
could have in 2013. End quote. So, here's an example of us having a rule in place, but no one has
00:55:20
to show proof that they're following it. That is if they're even following it. It would
00:55:25
be really great to have someone other than just Dr. Shelley to look to in this case because
00:55:33
there's something that I haven't told you yet. Something that we were not prepared for.
00:55:43
So, Brett, >> [laughter] >> when we were reporting on this case, I get this call from Nicole and she's
00:55:49
like, I have to tell you something. And she's like I don't even I can't even tell you. I need you to just like hear
00:55:56
this clip that I just found from Channel 12 in Arizona. I wanted to play the clip for you. We
00:56:02
could not license it. The fees were like outrageous for the 19 seconds that I wanted.
00:56:07
But the clip starts and there's this newscaster and they're like a doctor takes a dead Marine's brain home with
00:56:13
him and then allows his kids to hold it and take pictures [music] with it. What?
00:56:17
[laughter] And then the anchor pops in and he's like, yeah, a decision that led to this doctor being reprimanded. But it
00:56:24
didn't keep Maricopa County from hiring that very same doctor to work on some of
00:56:28
the most high-profile criminal cases. >> [laughter] >> Okay, sorry. I'm like letting the shock
00:56:33
like wash over my body. That's Dr. Shelley. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Okay. And this is before he did Laura's
00:56:43
autopsy. >> Yeah. Before Maricopa County hired him. Wendy Halloran did a full investigation
00:56:50
into Dr. Shelley's past which revealed that in December 2011, when he was a military medical examiner in Portsmouth,
00:56:58
Virginia, he was performing an autopsy on a Marine Corps sergeant who was found dead in his home.
00:57:05
Afterward, he was meant to take the brain, considered evidence, Right. >> to a naval hospital in Virginia for
00:57:12
further examination. But as I just told you, that's not what he did. [music] Instead, he took it to his house, took
00:57:20
it out of the stock jar, and handed it to his young kids to feel while his wife took pictures. I'm sorry. I'm like
00:57:29
literally >> [laughter] >> speechless. I have like zero words, but all the questions.
00:57:34
>> And Dr. Shelley he did bring the brain to the hospital the next day, but the Virginia Medical Board found out about
00:57:39
his like little detour from an anonymous caller and then they launched this like
00:57:44
whole investigation. >> Yeah, I feel like those pictures have to live on like the wife's cell phone
00:57:48
somewhere. >> to imagine someone saw the pictures and that's what prompted the call. I don't
00:57:51
know. Trust me, we scoured the internet for these pictures if they're anywhere out there, zero luck. Now, the Virginia
00:57:59
Medical Board ended up reprimanding Dr. Shelley. They slapped him with a $2,500 fine. That's it? Well, yes and no
00:58:06
because according to Channel 12, the Navy had also launched their own investigation and though it was found
00:58:13
that Dr. Shelley's show and tell didn't affect the brain examination in any way, he was put on
00:58:19
desk duty, his hospital privileges were suspended, and he was not allowed to do anything clinical. Great. I feel like
00:58:27
this is all semantics. Was he fired or not? The commanding officer of the naval hospital in Virginia quote recommended
00:58:35
that Shelley's privileges be revoked. End quote. >> That's not an answer. >> I know, I'm getting there. But the
00:58:40
surgeon general they had to give the final sign off before that could happen though, Shelley was offered this job
00:58:46
with the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's office in Arizona. >> He got out before he got fired.
00:58:50
>> Yep, isn't like I've seen this in like departments you can resign first, right?
00:58:54
All he had to do was go get his Arizona medical license approved. So, to facilitate that, he wrote this letter to
00:59:00
the board about the indiscretion and I'm actually going to have you read the part
00:59:05
where he describes what it is he did like in his own words. I told my children that I had done an
00:59:13
autopsy and retained the brain so that an expert could examine it. My older son and my stepdaughter
00:59:19
expressed an interest as they always have with my occupation. So, I showed the brain to them and explained what the
00:59:24
different parts of the brain are and how it works. I also allowed them to gently
00:59:29
feel the brain while wearing plastic mittens? I emphasized respect for the decedent
00:59:35
the entire time we examined the brain, which was no more than approximately 3 minutes.
00:59:41
>> 3 minutes. Okay, like in this context, can we like define what respect means? I
00:59:50
thought you were going to say plastic mittens because I want to know what plastic mittens are. And I don't It
00:59:54
might be a medical examiner thing that I'm unaware of, but like I'm imagining like oven mitts. Yeah.
00:59:59
>> But I don't know. Listen, when questioned about his own past, cuz we had to ask him about this,
01:00:04
Dr. Shelley told us, quote, "All the articles speak for themselves and I don't have anything to add."
01:00:10
End quote. Either way, he got his Arizona license in a 5-2 board vote. So, in June 2013, Maricopa
01:00:19
County hired him. And then 5 months onto the job is when he performed Laura's autopsy. There really like aren't any
01:00:27
actual real rules, are there? I have not told you the half of it. So, my spicy little soapbox speech might
01:00:34
have seemed maybe out of left field, but it's because like I've been living in this. You're going to get there. So,
01:00:40
Shelley is the only person we have documented as signing off on the ME report. The guy who signed off on Laura's
01:00:47
toxicology report was someone else, Norman Wade. And surprise, surprise, he has a
01:00:55
checkered past, too. According to Channel 12, in the early '90s, before Norman was the laboratory
01:01:01
director at the Maricopa County ME's office, he was a crime lab manager for a sheriff's office in California.
01:01:09
And while there, he took a gun and another item of evidence out of the evidence room and sold them at a pawn
01:01:16
shop. What? >> He got convicted of grand theft of a firearm in 1995, served 30 days in jail,
01:01:23
and was placed on probation. But here's what's wild. Maricopa County hired him as a forensic toxicologist in 1994
01:01:33
while that criminal investigation was unfolding. And then after his arrest, Norman
01:01:39
resigned from his post, but 5 years later, in 1999, he applied to come back to Maricopa,
01:01:47
this time as the lab director. Which is like a a promotion. On his application, Norman checked a box saying that he had
01:01:55
never been convicted of a crime other than minor traffic violation. Even though a fingerprint check revealed
01:02:03
his record and the information was sent to the medical examiner's office, he started the job anyway.
01:02:10
He went on to testify in major cases for nearly two decades until his [music] past resurfaced. Resurfaced, but it was
01:02:18
there the whole time. Yeah, he was investigated for failing to disclose the conviction and ultimately
01:02:26
he retired in 20 >> AKA just got out before he could get fired. >> 2016, and Norman did not respond to our
01:02:33
request for comment. Two comments here. Weren't you living in Maricopa County during this time?
01:02:40
>> I was. Like how hard up for people is Maricopa County? Literally, that was my first thought and obviously other
01:02:48
people's, too, cuz Channel 12 like asked them for a statement about all this back
01:02:52
in 2017. And they said, quote, "The Maricopa County Office of the Medical Examiner
01:02:58
faces the same challenge that ME offices across the country are encountering, a shortage of forensic pathologists. The
01:03:06
pool of qualified medical examiners is approximately 500. Maricopa County alone has 15 positions,
01:03:14
11 of which are filled. We expect to fill those remaining positions with exemplary talent. No employee is
01:03:21
perfect. We do not expect perfect past. What current management does expect is integrity, hard work, and
01:03:27
professionalism from the moment a person starts working here." Which like Listen,
01:03:33
I get I didn't realize like things were that dire. I think this is a good callout for our crime junkies. Like
01:03:38
there are some great openings for great people. But I to me it's wild that you can have like a
01:03:44
conviction like that and they're just like so desperate that they're like we might we're willing to risk all these
01:03:48
future cases. I don't know. >> cuz like I feel like everyone we've talked to in this job in our history,
01:03:55
like law enforcement sources always tell us the best indicator of future behavior
01:04:00
is past behavior. >> is past behavior. And like this is pretty clear past behavior to me, at
01:04:05
least. Listen, it is absolutely possible that Laura's autopsy was done according
01:04:09
to protocol with the highest integrity. But everything I just told you is enough, I think, to call that into
01:04:16
question. >> Yeah. And so if the reason that this case isn't being investigated is because
01:04:21
of the ruling undetermined undetermined, and that was made while Laura's body was
01:04:26
at this medical examiner's office, I think that at the very least, that work should be double-checked. Wait, is that
01:04:33
the reason they stopped investigating like once the autopsy came [music] back? Yeah, the autopsy came back in May 2014,
01:04:39
and then 4 months later the case was ruled inactive. Though the file doesn't like it doesn't explicitly make that
01:04:46
connection. The concluding report says that based on gathered facts and the undetermined medical findings, the case
01:04:53
would no longer be actively investigated. I guess nothing I've heard today has convinced me that we can trust
01:05:00
the systems that are at play here. Like it's not just the ME's office, right? Like in last week's episode, you
01:05:05
mentioned like allegations about Gilbert PD destroying police records illegally.
01:05:09
>> Yeah, so back in February, the Attorney General's office was reviewing those claims and they haven't made any public
01:05:15
statements since. Obviously, we reached out to them for comment, but as of this recording, haven't heard back on that,
01:05:20
either. So, here is what I want people to take away from this story. I think in the absence of an
01:05:29
investigation, all people have been left to do is point fingers at Dave. There is
01:05:35
an alleged prior history of abuse. There is an order of protection, a pending divorce, all good reasons to be
01:05:42
suspicious. But I am also kind of suspicious of a lot of the people in this case who were just never looked
01:05:48
into. Police never interviewed any of the guys that I told you Laura was seeing, other than Will. They never
01:05:54
searched their phones. They never looked at their locations or asked for alibis.
01:05:59
If Dave didn't do anything, he should be pissed off, too, because perhaps a better investigation could have answered
01:06:04
all of the open-ended questions that we have, and no one would be talking about him or his wife's death 13 years later.
01:06:12
It is not too late to take another look at this case, but that's not happening. It never has.
01:06:20
Laura's nanny told us that she called Gilbert PD almost every day in the wake of Laura's death to ask if there was
01:06:26
anything at all that they could tell her. And she was always turned away. And at a certain point, she was told
01:06:33
that Laura had a heart attack. Even then, she didn't know if they really looked into that or if they just were
01:06:39
like making that assumption. And Laura's neighbor who called in the suspicious vehicle told us that he remembers seeing
01:06:46
all of the police tape up around Laura's house, but he didn't even know what it was like for because police never
01:06:52
knocked on his door to ask him anything at all. He didn't even know Laura's name
01:06:56
until our reporter told him. Which is bonkers, especially when you think about the fact that you have Will who is
01:07:03
telling you he was right there with her that night right before she died. Like did you see him leave? Did you see any
01:07:10
other car? Did you hear anything? >> I know it is wild to me. And by the way, I'm not even sure how
01:07:17
thorough the few interviews that Gilbert PD did were because Emily told us that her call with them only lasted like 10
01:07:24
minutes. A call? They didn't bring her to the station? No, they called her while she was at her training studio and
01:07:31
then they just never followed up again. So, she told us she felt like they kind of just pushed Laura's case to the side.
01:07:36
Even Laura's dad told us that he has an extremely small amount of first-hand knowledge as to what actually happened
01:07:44
to his daughter. [music] He didn't want to do a formal interview for this episode, but he told us that he
01:07:49
does want to see justice in her case. You think Gilbert PD would have at least taken another look 7 years later when
01:07:55
Nick Cordova was murdered and the same man's name is starting to get like thrown around again in conversation. You
01:08:02
would think, but like I said, there is no mention at all of Laura in Nick's case file.
01:08:09
So, I want to end by saying that I cannot give any explanation for why the police seemingly did so little
01:08:18
work on Laura's case. But I can say that in the cases of Rachel Hansen and Nick Cordova, both stories that we've
01:08:26
recently covered on this show that are also out of Gilbert PD, pressure from the media did get them to
01:08:33
release additional records, and both of those cases reportedly remain active to this day. So, this is where we need the
01:08:41
help of our crime junkies. You guys, it is time to break the 12-year silence on Laura Sweetman's case.
01:08:48
One glance at her memorial Facebook page and it's clear to see the starring role
01:08:52
that she played in so many people's lives, especially the children that she saw in her practice who lost their
01:08:58
dedicated doctor. She never let any of the stressors in her life keep her from enjoying it. In
01:09:04
fact, her presence was so bright and so positive that her loved ones decided to wear colorful clothes to her funeral
01:09:10
instead of black because [music] they said that's what Laura would have wanted. So, please, take to social
01:09:16
media. Tell your friends. Tell your neighbors. Tell your local news people. Let's get people talking about Laura
01:09:22
Sweetman. And let's get the Gilbert Police Department to take notice. Laura's case is no longer being
01:09:29
investigated by law enforcement. So, if you're hearing [music] this and you have
01:09:32
any information that you want to pass along to us, you can email [email protected].
01:09:39
You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com.
01:09:44
And you can follow us on Instagram @crimejunkiepodcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new
01:09:48
episode.